 Monday, February 28, 2005
Celtic old and new on show against Clyde
So far this season I have come down on the site of the pragmatists. Be blunt and effective, win without the frills if necessary.
Maybe last week is only just catching up with me, but when Clyde’s Sheridan hit the post direct from a free-kick which itself only served to deny Bryson a career defining goal I had a moment of clarity:
Clyde were playing better football than us.
They were, of course, never going to win. Height, speed and experience were always likely to see us through in the end, but yesterday, Celtic were troubled.
The second half produced the kind of transformation we have been looking for all season. Shaun Maloney made a very welcome return to the team after serious injury and provided the spark to turn Celtic from a lumbering monolith into a slick passing outfit.
It remains a source of real regret that Maloney has missed so much of this season. He would surely have been first choice striker after Henri Camara’s star faded.
If I am being brutally frank, I doubt that he will get another opportunity for an extended first team run at Celtic. Bellamy will play with either Hartson or Sutton this season, and next season will bring more competition. While we have suffered more than a few tribulations during this transitional season, Maloney’s frustration must be enormous.
Two years ago, when Larsson broke his jaw, he grabbed his chance with both hands. Who knows what he would have been able to fashion from a run as first choice striker.
To the cheers from many Celtic Quick News readers (not me), Juninho got a starting place. The second half was a demonstration of a Celtic we always knew existed in the stands, but seldom see. When the opposition is drawn from the lower leagues this may well be the way – it was the last time we had such a resounding result against Falkirk. However, surely we all know now that when there are SPL points to be won, Celtic will revert to form.
Juninho played his part, no more, no less. In case my reluctance to see him given an extended role is misunderstood; it is not that I think he does not have the capacity to improve our play, it is that I think that he has lost the confidence of our manager. As such, both Celtic and Juninho should start planning for next season without each other.
As always, the message should be loud and clear. Find a new club wee man, another year jogging behind the goals is not for one as talented as you.
Martin O’Neill will return to his regular performers for the key battles between now and the end of the season. We are now in such as precarious position that the consequences of an experimental line-up going wrong are so acute as to render the possibility impossible.
Dundee on Wednesday will be the first opportunity Celtic have to put some points on the board and reduce the goal difference a little since the reversal against Rangers.
I am looking for an opportunity to make a judgement on Henchoz. The defence has played better in recent months than it did back in the autumn, however, I thing we need another footballer there before the start of the season.
67 Comments:
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I think "slick passing outfit!" is going a bit too far...
we scored two goals from open play against a team from a division (and a financial galaxy ) away from us.....
first half was dreadful.....second half was marginally better.....
whole team needs a serious "boot up the backside".....starting on Wednesday.....have hopes that we could close the points gap as well on Wednesday....our greatest rivals still don't look like world beaters to me...could struggle at Tynecastle....
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I think "slick passing outfit!" is going a bit too far...
we scored two goals from open play against a team from a division (and a financial galaxy ) away from us.....
first half was dreadful.....second half was marginally better.....
whole team needs a serious "boot up the backside".....starting on Wednesday.....have hopes that we could close the points gap as well on Wednesday....our greatest rivals still don't look like world beaters to me...could struggle at Tynecastle....
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Played well bellars movement and pace also Juninho's demanding that the ball was played on the deck was a treat to watch. Once sutty went off and the option of the long punt was not there the midfield got there arse in gear and started looking for the ball short. Thommo, the two stans maloney juninho and bellmay were good and it was good to see a ruthless glasgow celtic way type performance.
The move for the 5th goal was class, hopefully more to come starting on Wed.
But still room for big improvment
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i think that 3-5-2 may be the way forward for the remainder of the season.
although we were exposed when we played that formation in Europe, against SPL teams we should be more than capable of playing with only 3 at the back. this also solves the problem left back position and frees up a position just behind the strikers for mcgeady, juninho or maloney.
i also believe that o'neil has to play hartson OR sutton. you shouldn't crowbar your best 11 players into the starting 11. celtic need to play two up front and five midfielders across the middle.
personally, i would start with sutton and bring hartson on with about half an hour to go. I know this will never happen but its what i would do if i were manager!
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I really enjoyed our second half performance. I know it was only Clyde we were up against, but the standard of football we've come to accept is horrible. That second half display was back to the old Celtic attacking style. The only other performance i've enjoyed this year was the game at Tynecastle, where the ball was played on the deck & the movement was quick. I would pay anything to see a Celtic team play like that. Maloney & McGeady through the middle brought the best out of Bellamy and Petrov started to drive into the final third. Your right though Paul - O'Neill will revert back to Wimbledon Football.
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Falkirkbhoy
Are Falkirk / Clyde really any better than some SPL teams?
Would clyde have run out of steam, if we were only punting the ball up the park?
MON's tried and tested team have lost a seven point lead.
MON's tried and tested teams don't score goals
MON's tried and tested team don't play football.
Lets use the massive playing area of celtic park to watch the ball players set up and score goals.
Jim duffy's lot will be in the training ground defending long balls and free-kicks this week, lets surprise them and all of us!!
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It was good to see Celtic playing football on Sunday. However if Celtic are to continue playing in this way there has to be more thought given to how we get the ball to our midfield and forward players. Even after Sutton was taken off on Sunday Rab Douglas was punting long hopeful balls with all the accuracy of a Panorama report on sectarianism. Two main reasons I can see for this. One is that Rab can’t be blamed for a mistake if he hoofs it as far up the park as he can – more confidence required. The other is that the players who are available to receive a short ball cannot do anything creative with it apart from thump it up the park or pass it back to the keeper. It really annoys me that Celtic players run towards Douglas looking for the ball and upon receiving it simply pass it back. As the goalkeeper is now NOT in a position to pick the ball it can (and does) go anywhere. Neil Lennon for all his abilities is very guilty of this.
We need to rediscover how to build things from the back without a long punt. Once Juninho, McGeady, Petrov, Bellamy and even Sutton get the ball to feet they can play a bit. But when our keeper gets the ball Celtic players congregate in front of him. This is useless for receiving the ball. They must assume (or be instructed) that there is an even chance that in 20 seconds they will have to head the ball clear as a long clearance is ping-ponged back. Surely by moving to the sides of the 18 yard box the can get to ball to feet and by stretching the opposing attack and midfield provide more space for out attacking midfielder to get the ball to feet. Lennon can stand at the D of the 18 yard box to do what he does well, break it down if we get it wrong. Just don’t be tempted to pass him he ball. Think back to the Barca game at Celtic Park when Celtic got a corner Barca put three players on the half way line, one in the middle one at each byeline. The used the space and curtailed the number of defenders Celtic could move up for the corner. It was a brilliant device to undermine the confidence of the Celtic defence and cause it to play deep.
Happy to be shot down on this one but as an earlier poster said Celtic Park is a bit pitch, why don’t we use it.
While I am on, anyone know how Beattie and Pearson are getting on? I haven’t heard anything.
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PaulWhite78
I totally agree with your thoughts around the 3-5-2 formation.Although I am not a great fan of that set-up it served us well in the SPL until Rangers started playing three up front with quick players in the wide areas.Our lack of pace at the back was exposed by them a few times and in CL away games.
This formation should allow us to play a creative midfielder in behind the strikers and improve our attacking options,as the centre of the park lacks creativity with Lennon and Petrov in there on their own.The defence-splitting pass is not a weapon either player really possesses.
This season has seen us rack up goals in games against Clyde and Falkirk when a few of the more skilful "fringe" players have taken the place of MON's more favoured choices.Coincidence? I think not.
I have accepted that MON's philosophy on football is pragmatic bordering on cautious.But putting skilful players into that framework like he did yesterday proves that the style can inprove while still getting the required results.
The summer will be his big test.If he is given money to spend,trips down south to sign EPL journeymen will leave him open to accusations of being limited as a manager.We need to change the type of player we are signing if we are to have any chance of progressing in Europe.
I hope MON has recognised that too.
BankieBhoy
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I had not realised how much had sunk into the "it's results that count mire' when I took up the free weeks trial of Celtic T.V. and I went to the Old Firm reserve match. Both gave me the opportunity to watch football as I had been brought up to support, i.e. football played on the ground, football played by players who were confident on the ball and footballers who believed they could score goals by passing it through the middle.
The best thing that happened at the Clyde game was when Sutton was injured and Maloney took his place. It was then improved when McGeady came on and played through the middle. Juninho started to show how the game could be played in a different fashion and we scored 5 goals!
I would love MON to have the courage to change his style but I doubt very much that he will. To those that say he has a winning formulae I would point out that the bookies now have Rangers as favourites and that they are scoring more goals than us so who's to say that we wuill win the league sticking to the 'tried and trusted'
Roll on 2007?????
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hearts in semi final
Looking forward to that already
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Paul 67, your articles on the financial side of celtic are second to none, congratulations and thanks for the hard work! I disagree though about Juninho and Laursen. It is much more difficult to predict what will happen on the field than off the field. Celtic are treading water in the SPL, the only advantage of winning the league is getting a better crack at Europe.
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Does anyone remember how well Maloney played shortly before Seville?
Away games at Dunfermline and Motherwell and the 6-2 game against Dundee were a pleasure to watch and its no coincidence that when Maloney is in the team Stan Petrov also plays outstandingly well.
I would argue that its either Sutton or Hartson but definately not both who should partner a
sharp forward be it either Maloney or Bellamy.
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Another incentive for our players, who don't seem so hungry to win the league.
If we only need the last qualifying round to enter the Champions League, then that guarantees us of a second pot seeding going into the draw. This would mean we wouldn't see a repeat of the 'Group of Death' from this season.
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I can't believe that you'd prefer for Celtic to 'revert to type' for this Wednesday's match after Sunday's 2nd half showing, Paul.
Martin O'Neill is on record as saying that we need to rack up the goals between now and the end of the season to make an indent on the goals superiority that Rangers currently hold on us, so surely it make sense to bring in a creative player like Juninho who has the ability to CREATE those necessary goals??
The superb 2nd half performance may have only been against modest opposition, but then we were toiling against that same opposition in the 1st half. Martin O'Neill needs to look at bringing a new dimension to our playing style other than the route-one ball onto Hartson or Sutton every time - and players like Juninho can provide that.
Think back to the season when we lost the league on goal difference, having a tricky wee player like Maloney in the final third of the pitch helped Celtic to rack up the goals in the latter part of that season. I think Juninho can have that same type of influence on Celtic until the end of the season in terms of creating.
What would be the point of bringing Juninho to the club in a megabucks deal in the summer and then not giving him a proper chance to make an impact?
I'll be very disappointed in Martin O'Neill if he doesn't select Juninho against Dundee on Wednesday night.
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Paul67,
If you and any others who regularly post on this excellent website still think that Celtic will win the league by reverting to the 'tried and trusted' punt up the park football that Celtic have largely dished up this season then you need to wake up and smell the coffee.
Celtic will not win the league this season if MON sticks to the regulars that he's gone with so far this season. It's obvious to a blind man that this won't be good enough to deliver the league title.
There has to be some changes to the team selection if we are to overtake Rangers and rack up the goal difference against the lesser teams that we have toiled against so far this season.
Yes, whilst I agree that we can't have wholesale experiments at this stage of the season, by the same token we need some changes that will produce creative attacking football played at pace. MON's usual midfield line up do not have the pace and movement to achieve this. He must find a way to accommodate Juninho in the midfield (or McGeady more central)to feed the type of passes through to Bellamy to punish mediocre defences with his explosive pace. This approach combined with the set piece threat that Celtic will still carry at least gives some variety to the predictacle style of play that has bored me to tears so far this season.
While Celtic were still top of the league and winning I was prepared to accept 'winning ugly'. The pragmatists could claim that they preferred to win ugly rather than lose with style. However, if MON persists with his regular team selections we will have to start getting used to Celtic 'Losing Ugly'!
MON is paid a fortune to sort things out when the team is not performing to its capabilities. Therefore, if he is as good as we all think he is then he will need to make the necessary changes to adjust his team selection and style if the 'tried and trusted' is not working.
Vintimtim
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Can someone please explain to me since when did introducing thoughtful,intelligent,skilful football players into your team become an exercise in conducting experiments?
BankieBhoy
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Taggsybhoy
Apologies for taking the post away from Clyde (what a balanced panel on the BBC eh, Dougie (Clyde, honest, Craig Brown, Clyde, honest, and Gordon Smith, Rangers. OK, Pat Nevin co-commentating, but 3-1 isn't balance to me) but I'm just up to speed on Panorama and all that and need to get things off my chest!
I know Paul doesn't like the sectarian debate dominating, and I find it as tiresome as everyone else, but its a bit like when I taught in Mississippi and the Head told me, teach them about anything you want, except nothing about race, sex, politics or religion! We can't ignore the sectarian issue. This impacts on so much of what Celtic is about.
Panorama was awful. No point on whingeing here about it, get the complaints in. BTW, on a different point. I love what the tartan army have done with Baxter! We did it with Henrik a couple of years ago on 5live too!
My complaint to the Beeb is short and sweet. One, historical. No mention of the institutionalised bigotry of TFOD. Not the odd nutjob or un-PC buckieboys. A whole club, for the best part of 100 years,. Second, they appear at the First Ministers Summit, condemning "sectarianism". At the same time, they are selling, at this very moment, a shirt in their Sauchiehall Street shop, which is blue with an orange sash. No mention on the programme. Balance? Objectivity? Disgraceful. What qualifications do the BBC take to be Panorama researcher?
Its Celtic I'm concerned with though. Too many people I speak to tar us with the same brush as them. Its a bit like the Labour Party pre-Blair, when people thought voting Labour meant a Soviet invasion, kebab shops nationalised and man holes being called person holes. Whatever you think of Blair, he knew the value of image and presentation. Celtic are still able to be labelled the "Old Firm" and mentioned in the same disparaging context as a club which plays the Damnbusters before their matches and cashes in on the worst prejudices of their most lumpen fans.This shouldn't be allowed to happen.They appear unable, or unwilling for commercial reasons, to get their house in order. We must, and be seen to be.
Some of the problem is the club's fault for its amateurish pr. Some it is the fans. As a non-Catholic supporter, I have no problems at all with the club's Catholic Irish roots. But I dislike (like the ETims article suggested) that we are somehow less genuine than our Catholic schooled/brought up co-fans. As a Catholic mate of mine said to me once, us guys are actually "more" genuine, because we rejected all that "Proddy=Huns" rubbish we went through as kids. I personally don't go along with that. We are Celtic, whatever race/religion you are. Fans/players, we are, or should be, like Martin Luther King's dream, not even worth bothering asking the question about.
Its about the image we as fans project. The tartan army used to have an image as bevvying, kilt lifting, maurading neds. Now, they are welcomed everywhere. Ok, that has a lot to do with socio-economic/demographic changes I won't go into here, but a change in perception happened. TFOD are actually right in one respect. No-one does like them. Most educated people,and I mean that in the widest sense, know there is a difference between us and them. There are some though who fall for "lazy jounalism" and there is plenty of it around! We do let ourselves down by the outdated Republican chanting a small minority get involved in. Our brand, and don't be worried about that term, is as an inclusive, friendly team for all creeds and colour. What we always have been about. Never forget Seville. It was a short term defeat, however heartbreaking. Man U still have a world wide following because of the Munich tragedy. We will be remembered for Seville and the numerous other friendly journeys we have made in Europe. This is our future, and one TFOD can never rival. Let's take this friendly Celtic Scottish/Irish support(please don't give this the kiss of death by labelling it pc, its just basic, civilised fecking behaviour) everywhere. When TFOD/Hearts or whoever, behave like bigots, rise above it. Support the team (including Big Rab if he's picked). Love Celtic, hate no-one.
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Bankiebhoy
Your comment says everything
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Alan Munro, thanks for your comments and support.
King Henrick and Vintimtim I didn’t say that I wanted to revert to type, I said that Martin will view the risks of change as being too great. I agree with your sentiments and said above that I had my wake-up call when Clyde were playing better football than us.
Bankiebhoy, I believe change is viewed as experimentation by Martin.
Does anyone really expect Martin to change style at this stage of the season?
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Taggsybhoy, excellently said. Maybe worth a wee article on its own to increase its readership?
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Taggsybhoy, Thank you, that was like a breath of fresh air. Well said.
For what its worth I agree Paul, It would be a good idea to highlight this article.
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Although MON's dedication to his employees is to be commended, he seems to show too much loyalty IMO.
Thompson has not been playing well for a while, as far as I am concerned, but seems keen enough to point fingers etc.
I am extremely concerned with the attitude of the whole team this season, where I get the impression that we will do as little as possible to win the game. If we need to, we will go up a gear until we gain control, and then drop back down to maintain a lead.
It's almost as if we expect to win, and the other team should realise that! When the other team is hungrier (eg last Sunday 2nd half) we have no answer!
There seems to be a lot more arguments on the park this season than the last few.
I do believe that Shaun Maloney made the biggest difference yesterday, maybe because we HAVE to play the ball on the deck, or he cannot contribute.
We need to get that hunger back, and perhaps bringing in players with something to prove is required. Certainly, some of the players look as if they, at best, need a rest.
My $0.02 worth anyway
Seggy
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Anybody remember watching Blackadder Goes Forth and laughing when General Melchett decided that the grand plan for victory and glory was to send the troops over the top for the fifteenth time,despite the fact it hadn't worked fourteen times before?
It's not so funny now that MON's tactics and team selections are following similar patterns.Surely the second-half performance on Sunday must convince him that the addition of skilful players to the side will be a help and not a hindrance to our chances of retaining the SPL.
Paul,I take your point on not wanting to change style but for me it's not really a change in style and just a change in personnel.The fact that the players introduced have more ability and are more mobile than the current incumbents is just a fortunate by-product of selecting them.We need goals to peg back the current goal difference and Sunday was a fine example of what we are capable of when we knock the ball about.
From a personal point of view,if MON drops one or two of his favoured players and we still don't win the league at least I could say he recognised the problems we had and tried to fix them.If however he sticks with the tried and tested and we lose the league,as I mentioned in an earlier post he will leave himself open to accusations as being limited as a manager.No Plan B when Plan A fails.
I've always believed that at whatever level you play team sport at,players should be chosen on merit and recent performance.The guys who came in on Sunday have out-performed the guys who have played over the last few weeks by playing good football and scoring five goals.MON may yet have to call on these guys if Hartson,Thompson etc. get injured or suspended in the run-in.What would it do to their confidence if he leaves them out now?
Leave them in,give them their chance and give the guys named above the boot up the backside they need after some of their recent performances.MON has shown loyalty to these guys but what has he been getting in return?
None of us can see into the future but given current performances,which Celtic side do you see pegging Rangers back to win the title? The belligerent,physical long ball team or with a couple of small personnel changes,the quick passing side that played on Sunday.
I know who my money would be on.Let's win the title the real Celtic way!!!
BankieBhoy
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Best regards to all my old friends after a couple of weeks out trying to make sense of a new business venture. If you don't mind, I'd like to comment on two recent postings.
1. Panorama.
They did their best to make one side look as bad as the other but, given that, the Nazi salutes and the swithering of Murray and his security adviser were fairly tawdry.
Even so, we have no excuse for the consistently provocative behaviour of many of our away supporters. It is Celtic who give them the tickets. They know the clubs they belong to. It's time we banned whole supporters' clubs from getting away tickets rather than listen to the rubbish spouted by "Celtic fans" at so many away games.
I would have thought if these "fans" loved the club so much they would at least be able to fill the 90 minutes of watching our Bhoys with some songs that mentioned our club's name. If they're stumped for suggestions, this veteran of Madrid, Lisbon, Kiev, Rotterdam, Vienna, Turin et al is willing to offer some suggestions.
Incidentally, I thought Panorama missed the most glaring fact that 95 per cent of casualties after an Old Firm game relate to people who were nowhere near the stadium. They have been hurt because people have started bevvying at noon because the game has been switched to an earlier time to prevent trouble at the stadium.
So instead of fans battling each other at the ground (a near impossibility given security improvements) we have 10 times as many people launching into each other because they're blootered after hours of bevvying.
My advice: Make every Old Firm game a 9pm kick-off.
2. Clyde 0, Celtic 5.
This match had left me in a quandary because, as an Oatlands boy, I had always followed the Bully Wee. I had even seen their replay win over Ross County when ex-Celt Gary Arbuckle had scored the goal of the tournament. Yet I knew this game was a mis-match.
Celtic looked disinterested for 40-odd minutes then did the business. The wee ball-players did well, and I enjoyed Maloney's contribution.
But will that be enough to win the league? I'm not an expert .. but I know a man who is.
His name is Martin O'Neill.
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JohnBhoy
One mans "wee ball players" are another mans technically gifted footballers.Can you have too many of these in your team? Barcelona have a few in their team including one that used to play for us,will they be good enough to win the Spanish League?
Ability,a willingness to work hard and a winning mentality are the three most important factors in building a successful football team.I believe that all of our "wee ball players" possess all three.The tried and tested is no longer working as teams no longer fear Celtic without Larsson,a technically gifted footballer himself.These guys deserve their chance.
BankieBhoy
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to Anonymous of 8.10p.m.....our Champions league seeding has nothing to do with where we finish in the SPL.....The only effect of finishing position in SPL is on number of qualifying rounds needed to get to group stages...champions have one match, runners up get two....
if we get to group stages next season then we are almost certain to be in pot 2....
still find some of the praise for Sunday a mite over the top.....we scored twice from open play against Clyde....!!!!!....they are hardly Barca....
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Well said Taggsybhoy
Panorama was predictable. If it had been made 15/20 years ago, we would have more closely resembled what they were looking for.
Things have changed incredibly. The singing does still exist, I myself have done it in the very distant past (as most people on here would probably admit - Oh just me then !!).
You are right, our excursions to Seville etc are 'spreading the word' and going to Spain feels safer than a trip to our own Capital.
Lets not kid ourselves though, I was in Barcelona in November and the night before, the day of and after the game the bulk of songs were not traditional Celtic songs. The pubs were blasting out the Wolfetones and most people joined in.
The difference in a foreign country is that the locals are not really sure what we are singing, they are looking at the smiles on the faces, the body language and assessing, quite rightly, a party is in progress - not a potential riot. Compare this to the scenes of England supporters away, do you think this could be mistaken for a party - a blind man on a galloping horse would see the venom.
I want everyone supporting Celtic, singing Celtic songs and enjoying themselves. We will struggle to move away from rebel songs but at least most supporters realise this is no longer acceptable at CP. Who would have believed that 20 years ago?
It was a strange experience seeing the cameras in 'their' end, you could feel the hate and tension. I could only compare it to the 'fly on the wall' docs about the likes of Millwall years ago. It was disturbing.
We will always have an element of our supporters that sing these songs but lets be honest, it is diminishing and most supporters can see the 'bigger picture' and promote the Celtic family. There is nothing like travelling abroad and seeing the warm welcome we receive and reciprocate. Why? No bloody prejudice against us. Maybe I'm wrong, it may just be coincidence. We are shown respect, we show it right back - and more.
Lets not get too upset with Panorama informing the whole country that all Protestants are Huns, we will stab our own supporters if the wear a red,white and blue trackie and we are obviously all Gerry Adam's bastard offspring. How can we take a piece of 'reporting' seriously when they show a Republican March and have difficulty tracking down and Orange Walk. It's is pathetic, so lets not get upset.
When we rule the world we'll right all these wrongs (just kidding - the journalists reading these boards thought Christmas had arrived early..lol - check out the new strip Jacko)
We are doing our own bit, we are spreading the word and we are having a great time in the process. The TFOD will not change, they can't.
C'mon lets think about it 80,000 Seville, 10,000 Barcelona or 3,000 Orcs in Manchester being ridiculed for singing GSTQ, Rule Britannia and doing the Nazi no... Seig no .... sorry the Red Hand (always have a problem there).
We are not associated with this type of behaviour down here. My mates who were at the game were talking about it for days and ripping me because, as far as they were concerned, my fellow countrymen wanted to be English. I cant win!!
We will always have idiots who support Celtic, fact of life, but we are still moving away from TFOD on the sectarian issue and I think we should focus in making the gulf even wider. Leave the Clowns to it.
Rant over
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On the keeper front.. saw an article on Skysports website regarding Sebastien Roth the 26yr old swiss internationalist.. he'll be a free in the summer as his club (servette i think) are bankrupt and is is playing in france for rest of season... should we be interested in him?? if rab is going to Ipswich and I think Rosenborg or some other club was interested in Bionic for a small fee mightn't be a bad bit of business.
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Taggsybhoy, where abouts in Mississippi did you teach? I spent just under two years in Grenada (about 100 miles from both Jackson MS and Memphis TN) right off the intersate.
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The second half of the game on Sunday proved to me how little I have enjoyed the bulk of our games this season.The first half we were functional , the second half entertaining. I accept that we were only playing Clyde but I enjoyed the second 45 more than most we have played this season.We kept the ball on the deck and passed and moved . After some of the long ball crap we have seen recently it was a joy. The last time we played this way was just before Seville. Coincidently we played with 2 smaller strikers then as Sutton and Hartson were injured.I am not suggesting that one good 45 against first division opposition means we should drop the big strikers but we should not be playing both. We need to start winning games by more than the odd goal if we are to avoid losing the league to poor opposition. MON must start to play his best team not his best / favoured 11.Chris Sutton is a marvellous player but his lack of mobility in midfield is there for all to see. I am not having a moan just because we lost to the Huns , I am having a moan because I hadn't realised how little good football we play at times . It has just crept up on us all . I am interested to see what other people think.
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Anon 10.51
I think you will find that a lot of the contributors here are in agreement with you about not playing the two big guys up front together.The only problem is that so far this season MON's choice has been Hartson with Sutton in midfield to accomadate this.
We need to find away to ensure that Juninho or McGeady can play in central midfield to improve the creativity there.We need goals galore between now and the end of the season and we won't get them with Sutton and Lennon as a midfield partnership.
BankieBhoy
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Bankiebhoy, I couldn't agree more.Lennon and Sutton are great players but together they don't work. I think sometimes lack of mobility is a factor in our midfield without Petrov in the centre.Hopefully Maloney's injury is minor as he is an option if we play 5 in midfield.
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maloney - 2 weeks out with a twisted ankle
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Like I've said in previous posts, lets be concerned about what we label a sectarian song ! We sing very few sectarian songs, because others don't understand what the song is about, lack of education, willingness to understand or simply can't stand what we and the songs stand for doesn't make it sectarian.
Who has the sectarain problem us becasue people can't stand us and our beliefs and culture or them ?
Maybe I was at a different part of Seville from most but I certainly took part in some non sectarain singing of Irish songs and celtic songs, it was all good spirits local joined in porto fans mixed, not an issue.
I do agree that songs relating to IRA should be stopped but not every song of Irish theme is sectarain. I for one don't think we should drop everything Irish as the press lable is sectarain.
Clyde, not getting to excited over the result as we should have beaten them with ease, no excuse.
Was it just me or was Thomo very ordinary again. Juninho, 3 assists and the ball mostly played on the ground the way it should be what more can he do. Lets hope some changes are made and we don't resort back to the lump up the park mentality.
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Paul,
I have noticed in my time of viewing your musings that Alan Thompson is rated very highly by you. This culminated in your "most effective midfielder " blog.
Would you now concede that he doesn't merit a place in the team at present ?
Middle or left - he hasn't cut it for me this year. I know the assists statistic is readily available to be thrown back as a counter argument but he has not matched his pre England call up form. He is almost like a specialist player in an American Football Team who is wheeled on and off for set plays (In AT's case free kicks and penalties)except he stays on for the full 90 minutes.
Lennon too- controversial as it may be, should be dropped for the run in. We need goals from fluid open play - McNamara can readily take his place and enhance the options from the middle (thought he was good against Rangers in the Scottish Cup game)
I note your point that MON will go with what he knows best rather than with a style that , let's be honest has not been his trademark at any club he has managed before Celtic.
I think they fans have almost had their fill of kick and rush, would we not be more forgiving of a return to the cavalier style ?
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Paul,
I have noticed in my time of viewing your musings that Alan Thompson is rated very highly by you. This culminated in your "most effective midfielder " blog.
Would you now concede that he doesn't merit a place in the team at present ?
Middle or left - he hasn't cut it for me this year. I know the assists statistic is readily available to be thrown back as a counter argument but he has not matched his pre England call up form. He is almost like a specialist player in an American Football Team who is wheeled on and off for set plays (In AT's case free kicks and penalties)except he stays on for the full 90 minutes.
Lennon too- controversial as it may be, should be dropped for the run in. We need goals from fluid open play - McNamara can readily take his place and enhance the options from the middle (thought he was good against Rangers in the Scottish Cup game)
I note your point that MON will go with what he knows best rather than with a style that , let's be honest has not been his trademark at any club he has managed before Celtic.
I think they fans have almost had their fill of kick and rush, would we not be more forgiving of a return to the cavalier style ?
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San Miguel
I was talking to a Rangers fan at work and he mentioned that the thing that a lot of them fear when playing Celtic is Thompson's ability to put in fantastic crosses from wide areas.He never done that once in the last Old Firm game,in fact when can you last remember him doing that consistently?
On a previous thread it was mentioned that MON kept pushing him inside during the game at CP so he may well be partly to blame for taking away a big part of Thommo's game.In terms of being Celtic's most effective player,this may be true but in a team lacking creativity and skill levels this is by no means difficult.Lies,damned lies and statistics spring to mind.
On the point of Neil Lennon,I wouldn't leave him out as he is the best defensive midfielder we have but as for his new contract,any extension of more than a year would suggest to me a lack of forward planning in finding a replacement.
BankieBhoy
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Another great discussion going on here. Just a few disjointed points I would like to make -
Alan Thomson - I would punt him straight to the reserves to refind his hunger, plus maybe he could stop eating so many kebabs. The bhoy's bulking out a bit. He's lost pace and his god-like passing is not as good as it was.
Celtic identity - The point about the non catholic supporter hit home. I am a catholic raised in the west of scotland, Celtic is the team of my fathers, I have an Irish surname and my ancestors came across with Fergus Mor. Thing is I could not give two hoots for Celtic's Irish identity, I'm a Scot, proud of being a Scot. I would support Celtic if there was no Irish connection. Am I a cream faced loon?
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thompson being pushed inside in the last rangers game may have had a lot to do with the fact that we struggled to pick up any "second" balls (2nd half when we were needing to score) if you don't have the ball then how can you expect to do anything with it never mind being constuctive.
would be brilliant to leave someone wide in order to collect the ball and create but this isn't always possible
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Anonymous 3.17
If you don't have creativity in the wide areas or through the middle then how do you expect to score goals?
I take your point about needing to win the ball first as you can't do anything without it but if that area of the park wasn't functioning then isn't that what substitutions are for?
Just rotating the same players through different positions in the hope that the change works isn't, for my money,good enough.MON has a big squad,it's about time he started using it.
San Miguel
I noticed you mentioned playing in a more cavalier style.I don't think this is what is required.We just need to raise the skill factor by introducing a couple of players and the style of play will change by necessity.This can be done without changing MON's pragmatic approach.
BankieBhoy
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There is a growing concensus amongst contributors to this site that the league will be lost if Celtic revert to the pre- second half format on Sunday.On a previous post, just after the derby game, I offered the opinion that the present team commenced a terminal decline after the CL failure and suggested that the form took a downward spiral from that time. I also opined that Sutton,Thompson, Lennon and Hartson still had something to offer the team but not all playing at the same time. At the time I thought that I was in a minority of one as no reaction either for or against my opinion ensued. Now after a glimpse of what I believe is the future of MoN's strategy on Sunday, there is a swell of support for tactical changes.
If we are to overhaul our title adversaries,and I do appreciate that we are relatively level with them,we must abandon the route 1, predictable approach which has brought us this far but I believe, no further.
My controversial suggestion is for Juninho to be the first name on the teamsheet and build the unit around him, giving him the protection when needed. Mc.Geady can understudy him to both his and Celtic's benefit and can come on when the opposition begins to tire. As regards Aiden, I think the time has come to develope his midfield game as I feel he will lose confidence if he is played wide for much longer.A spell in the reserves would help hone his midfield skills.
I also think that Petrov will benefit from a quick thinking player who can play a quick ball .We saw evidence of that on Sunday.Last week I watched Celtic v Hearts on Celtic TV and we played on the ground stuff with Didi and Petta wide, Sutton and Larsson up front and the marvellous Lubo pulling the strings. We don't have Lubo now but we do have Juninho.It would be a crime against football if we don't use him to our advantage. The supporters are not wrong vis a vis the reception he receives when he takes the field. Paul let's hope your Damascan awakening embraces the wee man's potential contribution to the club.
Finally, I do believe that O'Neill will change tactics to take us to the next level but if,as some believe, he can't, then it's goodbye Martin and a sincere thank you for bringing us as far as you have.
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Hi Guys,
Does anyone honestly think that MON is going to drop players, give juninho an extended run and adapt our style of play to the passing game? I , and I'm sure i'm not the only one, cannot see this happening. I hope i'm wrong.
I dont think we saw an aberration on sunday afternoon or in the hearts game. I just feel that we revert to type too often. this for me is the sole reason for our exits in europe apart from this year where coming between barca , milan and a team with unlimited purchasing power ( shaktar) was just too big an ask...
We can play football , i just wish we would give it a go. Losing three times this year to the other mob is not good enough and MON now needs to use his undoubted ability to deliver us another flag.
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I think the biggest problem we face is how to voice our disapproval at what we are witnessing at the moment on the field.There is no way any of us will turn our back on the club when the players need us more than ever,but if opinion on this site is taken as fans' opinion in general then we are not a happy bunch.
It's easy to be wise after the event but I was happy to watch us play crap football till the end of the season if it meant us winning the SPL and then make changes in the summer.However,Rangers have now matched up with us like for like playing a more hun-like style and are at present making a far better job of it.
tom the tim has surprised me with his comments about MON but the more I speak to people at work and friends,more and more are starting to feel the same way.If he can't recognise the need for a change in personnel by the summer at the latest,then his god-like status as Celtic manager could be in serious jeopardy.
Please do not mis-understand this as some desire to remove MON from his job.I hope that this next few months will bring us a new five year plan with a team full of players with skill and attacking flair with MON at the helm.If it does not,then I find myself erring towards the"thank you and goodbye" school of thought.
BankieBhoy
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Dont want to keep harping on about it but its good to see an official statement from the club on the website stating the dissapointment from the club about the panorama program
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Bankiebhoy- I didn't mean cavalier -sorry about that . What I meant was progresive passing football.
Not being a statto - can anyone tell me the last time Celtic scored 5 in the league ?
Diasgree with your Lennon opinion though. McNamara could surely fill that role and and the same time make a telling pass and chase back more effectively. In short he is the better option is he not ?If chalking up the goals is the order of the day then Lennon's appearances must be limited.
As for Alan Thompson - he is one of the "untouchables" which although may have been the spine of the team which carried us through to Seville etc. is sadly now suffering from osteoparosis !
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Taggsybhoy
Thanks for the kind comments about my recent Panorama rant. Interstingly, the quality of debate on CQN way surpasses that on BBC Scotland's soapbox, which is infantile. This must be where they recruit their match pundits.
Computergeekjohn, I taught in Meridian, Mississippi in 1992-93. I had the pleasure of being 5,000 miles away while TFOD almost made it to a European Final. Bernard Tapie, is there not a supporters bus named after him?! I made it out your way, out to the delta a couple of times. Some place MS, eh? Great experience, and a lot of great people, black and white.
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Buon Giorno..........
I see that a fellow from the embarrassed Clyde eleven has, unfortunately commited a big no-no.
What did he do, you may ask?
He opened his big mouth and tattled to the Red Toppers.
"Bellamy is a boaster...... He talks too much..... He told me that I will be doing his garden in the Summer........."
Naturally, the Strangers to the Truth, ran like hades to the presses with such a juicy chance to demean the Glasgow Celtic.
My high opinion of THE FLEA, has just been further enhanced by this piece of gossip.
Good for you, "Fine Friend".
I love your attitude.... I agree wholeheartedly with the axiom..
"Nice Guys finish Last!"
Use every weapon in your armoury.
This is War, my friend.
Sock it to them! Pile on the Agony! UP the Celts~Down with the Windagos!
I only wish the rest of the Celtic Team would embrace this type of attitude.
"Bellamy siete le parti superiori!"
Ragazzo Pazzesco
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Falkirkbhoy
so its sinking in, the money men are learning about football.
As I have stated every month since July 2004, the writing has been on the wall re MON and the way celtic play.
At last we are discussing this without the usual God like talk I get back.
As MON has always stated, He is only a couple of games away from the sack, he knows this isn't the celtic way of playing, its done a job, but now move on.
We are no longer the new team in europe, surprising teams on our way to the final.
Teams now know how to play us.
I think we now have the players to play the Tommy Burns style of football, to play football, the glasgow celtic way, and WIN!!!
Why not try it.
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FalkirkBhoy
To my mind,the biggest failing TB had was an inability to sign a decent defender.In the early days it was big Malky,Yogi,Brian O'neill and the like and who can forget Stuart Gray waddling around in the left back position!!
He spent all his transfer budgets on the players he knew Celtic fans wanted to see.Skilful,attacking players with good technique and forgot about the back door.
If MON was just prepared to unleash the shackles a bit by playing the likes of Juninho,McGeady and Maloney I think we would trust the likes of Henchoz,Varga and Balde to keep the back door shut while allowing these guys to do what they do best,
entertaining the fans with skill and passing football while winning games.
Really,a balance some where between the two styles would suit me,as I think TB's philosophy would have consistently been found out in European games and MON's "NASA" football has been found out now and is easily dealt with by the really big boys.
BankieBhoy
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Ragazzo Pazzesco/ Lontano vada / Fargo
Siete un avvocato , o mangero il mio capello.
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If our on loan forward is making enquiries about the availability of a gardener for the summer months, do you reckon he’s already thinking of an extension to his Hoops career…hmmm, I wonder?
PM
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San Miguel
Having watched Alan Thompson closely all season, especially during his 'playing out of position' period, I would not want to drop him for an important game, though I think he is looking tired and might benefit from a rest.
I believe he plays under strict instructions from Martin. This means that he does not have the freedom to play as he might, and certainly not as many want him to, but he is doing his managers bidding.
I am reluctant to single wither Thompson or Lennon out, as I rate both highly, however, I think the balance is wrong; there is not enough pace in midfield.
As such, changes should be made.
Tom64, what is a cream faced loon?
Fargo
Don’t think you are incognito when you don’t sign in. Watched some of your movie last night, what a scream.
Not sure whether to post some good (for us) info on the Casino developments not likely to be happening in Glasgow, does it merit a story?
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PaulAs said casino was supposed to be the bedrock of Rangers financial recovery,I think it makes sense to let us know where they stand now without it.
And it might give me a chuckle!!
BankieBhoy
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Tagsy,
Never got over to the east side of MS down there. I did a bit further north (Caledonia, just because of the name). We liked the pace of life and the house we had. The people were definately interesting in Grenada. The first resaurant we ever went in had blacks on one side and whites on the other. Moving there from CA, we thought it was strange...don't think we engratiated ourselves to the whites as we sat with the black people.
The people were either the nicest people you ever met or the strangest. Would go back and visit, but not to live. Now I would move back to Northern Texas or Orange County, CA tomorrow. We all loved both of those areas.
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re:Panorama
Most of the issues I would have highlighted have been covered already. My letter of complaint was sent this afternoon.
Although the innaccuracies, sensationalism, outrageous editing and complete lack of journalistic integrity in desperate pursuit of a coherent argument (that we are the same as them) was clear to me, it was not to everyone.
I watched along with 4 neutrals who neither know much about Celtic nor particularly care. What was really depressing was how effective this tabloid journalism approach is on those not in possession of the facts. They simply couldn't seperate us at the end. Even when I pointed out the numerous problems they were still left with the overall feeling that it was just one nasty, violent bigoted mess. They so no reason to differentiate.
The BBC has a lot to answer for. This is the kind of garbage that sticks in peoples minds. Really, really depressing.
Regards
YOGI
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I'm just back recently from a skiing holiday in the Alps.
At 2000m, I managed to find an internet connection where I eagerly logged on just to get the result.
Beat two-nuthing, I felt terrible (although all morning I had a bad feeling about that game...).
Anyway, I felt just as bad in midweek when all these European games were on, and I was surrounded by French, Italiens, English etc who were really interested.
I couldn't be bothered: Celtic were not playing.
Back home, definately had to watch the Clyde game (who needs Barcelona?).
At one point in the first half I felt physically sick. In the second half, I definately started to feel better.
Is there any cure for being a Celtaholic ?
BUT, definately looking forward to tomorrow's game where I hope that MON will continue with the same type of formation as in 2nd half Sunday.
Hopefully, he's got his finger on the pulse of TimDom...Let them play!!!
Also, I fancy the other lot to drop a couple of points tomorrow, so could be a good night all round.
PS: Don't often post (now you know why...).
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Why is there so much non-English on this site?
Che cosa è a Mangero i miei amici?
per mangiare?
Είναι όλα τα ελληνικά σε με
Anyway...
Like many others, I cannot see MON diverging from his results over style strategy in the main.
We will continue to bludgeon opponents to death, and if that doesn't work, throw on the sylish ones for 10 mins.
I hope I am wrong on that one - doubt it though.
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Yogi, I agree wholeheartedly with what you had to say about Panorama.
If this joke programme had been broadcast in Scotland only, then maybe it wouldn't have been worth bothering about ..too much.
The fact that it was broadcast nationwide is definitely a cause for concern as I have no doubt that the BBC will have succeeeded in its attempt to tar us with the "one's as bad as the other" brush, at least to people who dont know any better.
I was delighted to see that Celtic have issued an official statement re Panorama but I would also hope that Celtic tread very carefully when next the BBC come banging on their door, ie close it in their face.
This kind of tawdry journalism commands a far bigger audience than any of our Rangers minded Red Tops up here and it is something that we could well do without.
Oh and while I'm on my soap box: whats all this dross about Craig Bellamy?
Hands up anyone who thinks that Craig will be allowed to settle into his new career at Celtic...I thought not.
Again on a different point, am I the only person who thinks that Hutton of Rangers deliberately tried to injure Garry Hay and ended up second best?
I wouldn't wish injury on any player but if you look at it again ....
I have been banging on in this forum since the start of the season for Juninho to get his chance in the side, I think we all saw the touch of class he brings to the team but personally I cant see MON dropping any of his old guard to accomodate him.
That is Martin's decision and if we win the league then he will have my full support, I trust him to make the right decision, as he sees it.
Rant over: heavy medication to follow.
Hail, hail.
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With regard to the BBC Panorama programme on Sunday night, I have consistantly refused to watch any Panorama programme. A number of years ago, the programme did an expose on Glasgow gangs and their battles. To make it really authentic, the producers paid gangs of youths to stage manage the said fights. the youths were from Bellshill and the fake battles also took place in Bellshill. The Panorama programme has no integrity as far as I am concerned.I did not watch Sunday's show because of my views on the ethics and morals standards it employs.It would appear that nothing has changed in the intervening years.
With regards to the subject matter of the programme, sectarianism exists in every walk of life in Scotland. When the conductor/ composer James McMillan delivered his Edinburgh Festival lecture some five years ago saying that sectarnianism and anti Catholicism was endemic in Scottish life,he was vilified in our FAIR and HONOURABLE media. All sorts of people were wheeled out to counteract his stance. Scottish society was at pains to deny his claims, simply blaming what remnants of sectarianism were left in Scotland, on a few mindless football bigots from both sides of the devide. Well that was not true. James McMillan was right then and still is right today. Until we can take our place in the highest office of our land then there will always be a problem. Perhaps Panorama would have been better suited to exposing the inbred anti Catholic policies employed by Westminister and Holyrood goverments.
A number of years ago, 1995 I think I attended a Scottish cup Semi final tie between Celtic and Hibs played at neutral Ibrox. With me were my two sons Paul67 and his brother Kevin88. Aswe entered the stadium, Isaid to my sons that this place represented all that was bad and wrong in Scottih life. It was the first time I had been to a match at that stadium for twenty five years. My thoughts were if I could not play for them then I would not finance them. A few token Catholics may play for them today , but that changes nothing. The place still represents all that is wrong in our country.
Iam 63 years of age and I am sorry to say I do not see it changing greatrly in my life time perhaps in the life time of my oldest grandson who is only turned three. God help us all if we are looking for a fair hearing from any form of the media.I do feel strongly about this and could go on and on but will stop for now
Martin 42
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Very interesting the comments regarding the Panorama programme.It's not just Celtic that gets this treatment,After all,over the years when someone mentions "Chelsea" what springs to mind? I always think
"skinheads,headhunters,casuals"
There is a word that has been written on this site over 100 times but I'm a bit clueless to what it means,can anyone help?
"TFOD"
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