 Thursday, February 03, 2005
Lessons Celtic have learned about Transfer Windows
Reflecting on the last two transfer windows, one satisfying, the other disappointing there are a few lessons to be drawn.
The first is when deals are done.
It would seem that unless you are shopping for a player like Rangers new signing Buffel, who is surplus to requirements at his existing club, deals are not done early in the month. What incentive does a selling club have to accept a bid with two weeks of the window left?
Knowing this, what incentive would a buying club have to open with a bid too early? Deals are made late in the month as it suits neither party to show their hand too soon.
Lesson two is knowing when you are in control of a negotiation.
For this it is worth considering the David Murray example. “£3million is our final offer. If Blackburn do not accept it before the last week of the window we will move for another midfield player”.
Laying your cards out in this manner can be a powerful negotiating tool.
Tell them how far they can push you and move on if the other side do not accept your terms. It is, of course, hugely important not to make a fool of yourself at this stage.
Once people know that you don’t mean what you say you are easy meat.
Murray made himself a hostage to fortune. He had led Rangers fans to believe that there was an alternative strategy in place. It was interesting to listen to some of the Scottish media talk about Blackburn being in a no-win situation two weeks ago. This was clearly the line coming out of Ibrox, as it was obvious that Blackburn had their player under contract, and no matter what anyone thinks of Barry Ferguson, Blackburn knew well that he would not cheat his employer.
Lesson three is ensure everyone knows you have options.
Having other players available when you are conducting a negotiation is very important. When Celtic were negotiating with Stephan Henchoz they had several other players on trial. That we had options changed the balance of the negotiation in Celtics favour.
David Murray could have done the same if he had a bit more presence of mind. Maybe he would have saved himself a few million if he had; all he would have needed to do is pick a name from the fax machine and send a car to Glasgow airport to meet some hopeful soul.
TV pictures of players from Germany and Poland training at Barrowfield creates the impression among agents that they are not the only girl on the dance floor.
It is well known that Martin O’Neill dislikes the transfer window system. He has clearly suffered from its slings and arrows in the past, however, on this occasion it has worked in his favour. He pulled off the most significant signing in Britain, any bets he is looking forward to August just a wee bit more now?
But remember, there will be Celtic in crisis headlines on the 26th August, expect nothing until the evening of the 31st.
113 Comments:
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apologies for re-posting this again from the other blog
Paul and Co. , i have no connections in media and work in an environment far removed from it , but something is definitely up at sky sports as regards" the old firm "( yes i definitely believe we should be moving away from them too but at the momnet we are seen as a package)
In the cup game on sky sports the commentary were fulsome in their praise of " the biggest derby in britain" " two massive clubs"
on the skysports website we are constantly referred to as "the glasgow giants"
and last night on jeff stelling's show when the subject of henri camara came up , chris kamara said that "perhaps celtic were too big a club for him"
now as i said media is not my thing but i do know propaganda when i see it , My belief is that SKY are softening up the punters for our arrival.
has anyone any other instances of this and more importantly , paul do you concur ??
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Anyone else a bit surprised that any of our (ahem) squad players were not atleast lent out to other's and maybe even one our 2 of the youngsters who are on the edge of the first team.... I mean there are 2 competitions left and as far as I know not that many internationals... i'd prob have kept Ulrik around as henchoz aint fit... but will beattie / maloney / fernandez / sylla / lambo get a game between now and june????
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Paul
Your analysis of the transfer window is as sharp and perceptive as your comment on most other matters,as they pertain to us. It is as delightful as reading Graham Speirs' articles on Murray. We are definitely on the UP, no matter what the Scottish media might want everyone eklse to think. Roll on the EPL or whatever SKY create in its place, when we can begin to really take on the big boys on a level playing field.
Yours in the 'Tic.
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Firstly, I couldn’t agree more, congrats has to go to MON for pulling off some great business over the transfer window. I think Henchoz, when back at full fitness, could be a great addition, and finally offers some real competition for Varga & Balde. The addition of Bellamy and dispatch of Camara, will I’m sure also prove to be inspired choice!! On the down side, would it not have been wise to offer both Sylla & Fernandez as part of the deal with Hartley? I wonder if Hartley would have made any immediate impact for us anyways, but his addition would surely have been more useful than that of either Sylla or Fernandez, as I can't see either of them contributing anything for the remainder of the season(Probably not even 5mins as a sub!?). It's been mentioned on here plenty of times before, but the importance of getting these dead wood players off our payroll can’t be ignored. I'd like to know if MON prefers to have these players just to keep the numbers up, or if he really sees a future for them? Top priority come summer is to remove these players and get in some that are going to actually challenge for a position. MON's admitted defeat with Camara, it just didn't work out, but I'm glad he was man enough to admit this and ship him out. Surely the same could be done with some of these players??
So what do you think, healthy addition to our squad or overpaid waste of space? For what it’s worth here’s my opinion:
Sylla (AC Milan, need I say more?)
Fernandez (New Moravcik? Don’t make me laugh!)
Laurssen (Satisfying performances of recent weeks, but too little too late??)
Valgaeren (Sorry big man, tries hard, but never regained form of a few years ago)
Hedman (Too many costly mistakes)
Lambert (Time is up for a great servant. Make sure and get him on the coaching staff though!)
…any I’ve left out?
How much will that save us Paul? Surely plenty for another two or three top class signings in the summer(hopefully in their early 20’s!!). All that’s left to pay is the transfer fees, which according to your figures there should be plenty left over for that!!
Cheers,
DaveBhoy78 (Couldn't get logged in??)
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Xavier, Sky promote the Premiership as the best league in the world when it is clearly not only because they are selling it. This is a well known strategy at Sky, would make sense that they are bumming up Celtic and Rangers for the same reason.
Getting shot of the deadwood is easier said than done. Who wants them is the first question. Who can afford the wages is the second.
Most SPL clubs are over stretched with payroll commitments at the moment as it is.
Davebhoy78, I have not done the budget figures yet since the transfer window, but there is plenty of scope in the summer. I expect all on your list to go apart from Fernandez, who will be putting cones out at training for another year to come.
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Belfast Bhoy,
I couldn't agree more with you about loaning out the younger players that won't get the chance to play with the first team and squad players that are not good enough for the first team.
All you need to do is look at the reserve / under 21 side at the moment and although this side would probably beat 90% of the senior clubs in Scotland, there is nothing to beat first team action for some of these players.
At the moment Young McGovern in goals is on loan to Stranraer and getting very good reports as well. How valuable will his experience be for when he returns to Celtic Park in the summer. There is another lad out on loan to Morton.
A few years back Liam Miller and the boy Doyle went on loan to Marc Rieper's side Aahrus. Sorry for bringing up his name, but it certainly stood him in good stead.
I am not sure if there is a ruling about loan players out, but there was a press article which stated that Chelsea couldn't loan out any more players because they had reached their quoto. Can anyone confirm this as being gospel or an inaccuracy?
Newarthill John
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Sorry lads but i think we'll need more than 3... look at it this way, I mentioned in the previous article / thread that if this idea of joining the EPL comes to fruition, then at the moment we have a 2-3 year plan not 5. We couldnt even guess what the increased revenue from sky etc would be as the main selling point for us going down there would be renegotiated or newer more lucrative contracts. Now lets be honest how many current players would you put out for the Celts in the EPL in 3 years Bellamy? Petrov, jfk and McGeady are about the only definites with Maloney, Beattie and didi being probables with maybe a few youth players progressing..Varga,bobo,thommo,sutty,henchoz?bbj,lenny and perhaps even jinky would all be what 32-35 by then, and would you trust them at that stage against morientes, rooney, van nistleroy, cisse, robben, duff, henry et all. I'd really expect sylla,fernandez,joos, twf to be gone, cant see wallace troubling the chelsea defense. So we need to be scouring europe and beyond looking for the next petrov, players that will bring something to the team now and in three years time will be ready.
So if were serious bought the EPL and I imagine we'll get a season or two's notice, we need 3+ players a year for the next 2-3 years, no older than 24 and around 3 mill each, then in th esummer before the EPL some serious money needs spent, im talking maybe 25mill on three stars.. that kinda spending and what would then hopefully be atleast 80,000 at home and we'd be atleast top 4 in season 1 or 2, just look who are challenging for the 4th spot at mo...everton,liverpool and thats bought it, boro arent doin much... toon's don't even start... So like i say we need to start reshaping the core now.... piece by piece over 3 yrs... U wanna gell a completly new team in a new league in one summer and knowing us in the last week of the summer window????? dont think so.
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Xavier, I have also noticed Sky are softening up regarding Celtic and Rangers. Trust me their comments have not gone un-noticed.
BellshillTim
I understand the limitations of the Sky satellite system but Sky can link up with BT to deliver these services using BT's broadband infrastructure.
BT are already working on a system that will give access to VOD through Freeview boxes and with the decent uptake that Freeview has enjoyed there is a vast market already in place.
Both NTL and TELEWEST are crippled with debt, indeed NTL have just announced major cut backs to its services, ie no more free out of hours repairs , no repairs unless necessary to its infrastructure, etc.etc.
Dont be too surprised if Mr Murdoch takes advantage of the harsh financial realities these two major companies are experiencing.
In any event , the roll out of VOD on both Telewest and NTL is still good news for SKY as the cable companies pay a substantial premium to carry Sky's channel line up and there are big bucks on offer to Sky no matter that their own system is at present limited by bandwidth.
NeilR:
I couldnt agree more with your comments regarding Fargo, his ramblings are at best vague and at worst they smack of someone who is "wise" after the event.
"The Flea" could mean almost anyone and I'm still deeply suspicious of his mutual back slapping fest with "Diane" but as I've already posted he seems to have more than a few supporters on this site so I'll leave well alone for now.
I like you cannot understand Paul's willingness to believe that this guy knows anything about whats what behind the scenes.
I believe that you are wrong to underestimate the speed of the changes that will affect how we watch and use our tv in the future, the technology is accelerating at a rate of knots and it will be out of sight by 2010.
The BBC are involved just now in developing a Personal Media Viewer ( a kind of all singing all dancing tv cum pc) and as I have said in a previous post this will be the way forward and not as has been suggested, through your existing home computer.
I realise that many people out there are technophobes regarding pc usage but the next generation tv's will be "plug and play", with full high speed internet access as standard enabling the subscriber to access any amounts of live and archive material at any time .
This is not pie in the sky prognostications( there, I've managed to use THE word) this is fact, its out there now in various guises.
The vast ammounts of money to be made by all concerned will ensure that live football as we know it in this country and beyond is coming to an end, it will be quite simply watch what YOU want when YOU want to watch it but you will pay it.
I'm sure that we can all see the attraction of lets say Arsenal V Celtic as opposed to some of the dross that masquerades as football at the moment, Sky also realise that if the product is put on offer to its subscriber base then people will opt for the games involving the bigger guns.
That is where we come in, along with Rangers, we come as a package I'm afraid, with our large worldwide fan base we will prove to be a real moneyspinner for Sky.
Dont think that Seville went un-noticed by the powers that be and dont think that Peter Lawwell was spouting nonsense when he said that Celtic have the capability to become the biggest club in the world.
Expect massive changes in the next 5 years.
Hail,hail.
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Anyone wanting to know why the 16-17 year olds are being brought in.....
Uefa sets foreign player limits
Uefa has announced clubs competing in the Champions League and Uefa Cup will have to include four homegrown players in their 25-man squad from 2006.
Europe's governing body also wants to implement the plan in domestic leagues but that will have to be agreed by each national association.
Uefa then wants six homegrown players by 2007 and eight in 2008.
Of the eight, at least four must be trained by the club's own academy and the rest from the home country.
Uefa defines a club-trained player as one who has been registered for a minimum of three seasons with the club between the age of 15 and 21.
Of the 32 sides in last season's Champions League, five clubs would have not had enough homegrown players.
They are: Arsenal, Chelsea, Celtic, Rangers and Ajax.
Uefa's 52 member associations will vote on whether the same rule should apply to domestic competitions at a Congress in Tallinn, Estonia in April.
There has already been strong opposition voiced by the Premier League and the Italian federation.
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Can I just say....
MON pulled off no wonder stroke when he brought in Bellamy, the guy had nowhere to go.Shepherd stated that he would not play in England, and I suppose it was too late in the game for him to get a club on the continent. Of course the Norwich connection helped, but lets not get carried away with this "signing". If he had had an offer from someone in the top half of the EPL, and Shepherd had allowed it he would have went elsewhere.
Although I rate Henchoz highly from what I can remember from Liverpools treble season, he was another who was basically getting the boot for talking to the press.
Who else were we actually going to sign? We have to trust the staff at Celtic in that the trialists werent up to the standards they required.
Im sure MON and Walford will be able to get the best from Bellamy with little bother and he will be a great player for us, short or long term.
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The new UEFA ruling about “home grown “ players is nothing new – its been on the cards for a while, why do you think that Arsenal ect have been scouring the continent and trying to snap up the best youths around.
Surprising to see that Ajax are one of the five teams that played in this years Champion League who would fall foul of the new ruling. Changed days indeed.
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Craigneuk Xavier
I hate to be the party pooper here but there is nothing new in the Sky attitude or presentation re the Old Firm. It has always been the same right back to when Sky first began to cover Scottish Football and I don’t hear anything different. They’ve always hyped the two to sell the product. All of that said that doesn’t alter my thinking that they will want something new if they can get it to help their own future progress and that will include Celtic in the EPL if they feel that will add to the attractiveness of the Sky package.
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Hi all,not posted before couldn't be bothered signing up too busy reading, there's just so much to read on this site. Definately the best site for real celtic news on the web bar none, well done Paul.
I have been a long time believer in The Famous Glasgow Celtic joining the EPL or a new league down there. As soon as SKY started to pay the kind of money they started paying a few years ago it was only a matter of time that the big clubs would just get too big and the league would reach a state of flux. I believe that viewing figures on SKY for The Famous Glasgow Celtic v's the orcs is around 800,000 whereas ManU v's TheArse
is only 500,000. Say for talking sake that we get 450,000 viewers and they get 350,000 out of that you may have 100,000 neutrals. Although out of those 100,000 there can't be many who honestly don't have a favourite out the two. I can't possibly imagine being a neutral at a game but some people, weirdo's doesn't even begin to cover it. So say knock 50,000 off our total for the weirdo's although I don't honestly believe there can be that many people watching the game with a multi-coloured swap shop scarf. So 400,000 of THE finest football supporters on the planet watching not counting the thousands around the globe watching on other channels/internet. So the 500,000 for the highest profile game down there is probably at a guess 300,000 ManU 200,000 TheArse I'll leave out the neutrals this time but you get the drift. I mean I watch a lot of football but tend to steer clear of a lot of it down there. Raging I only saw highlights of the game the other night as it looked a classic. So in effect SKY could have viewing figures in excess of 700,000 for The Famous Glasgow Celtic v's ManU just think how much they could up the advertising on SKY as the viewing figures would go through the roof and that's us with the player's we have now. Just think of the players we will get once we are in, there would be double the amount of THE greatest football supporters in the wourld official, in 10/20 years time as the new generation of fans in england grow up after all it's a multi-cultural world now (if the world last's that long). And let's face it if you were growing up in england and you had to pick a shirt to wear, the hoops will seal it every time. To be honest I think we are already there (the EPL)or am I just deluding myself. ManU are increasing their capacity again subject to planning permission why? Simple, progress, if there is going to be more interest down there if we are coming they need more seats or maybe they have heard we are thinking of increasing capacity to 80,000. Well they increased their capacity to 67,000 when they heard ours was going to be 60,000. Arsenals new stadium will be finished in 2006 ( I think ) is that a coincedence I think not. They need a revamp we need new goals and the common denominator is filthy lucre.
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Good points on the transfer window saga, however I'm not so sure that MON played the system as well as you suggest. The bulk of January was taken up negotiating with existing players to extend contracts. Important and ultimately successful business but why did MON have to wait until January to do this when his time would be better spent on other matters.
The Bellamy signing was a coup for Celtic, and a fantastic bit of business in seeing Camara off to cover most of the finances needed. However, where would we have been had the Bellamy situation not arisen at Newcastle? Henchoz was a good signing and maybe one of the other 3 young lads will develop into a great player for us but the only other option seemed to be Hartley. I haven't seen Henchoz lately but if he re-discovers his Liverpool form of a couple of seasons ago I think he will oust Bobo from the side (not Varga) and make us stronger in Europe. We are still not strong enough to mount a serious challenge in the Champions League and hopefully MON will do another bit of shrewd business in August. There is no doubt in my mind that we had enough before these signings to wrap up the league this year and the addition of Bellamy will only strengthen our position.
A good left back will likely be on the shopping list in the summer although Laursen might come through for us - he has the potential.
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Have to agree about the tranfer window stuff,just think how strong a 3-5-2 we can play for the rest of the season thanks to our new bhoys.
Murray makes me laugh,i mean between upping his 'take it or leave it' bit to blackburn and the origional financial mis management that was his doing at ibrox over the years it really makes me wonder how he's managed to survive in the buisness world for so long.
frightening but funny very,very funny.
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Paul
Sorry to cast a sour note of sorts but being somewhat cynical I’m not convinced that this was a deliberate strategy but more a stroke of good fortune (unless of course you know differently) though I take no issue with the effectiveness of having other options around as a useful bargaining tool. It might be a bit more believable as the scenario if we’d ended up with the missing left back at the end of the window. As it is we’ve seen numerous trialists come and go over MON’s time in charge without similar success in securing targets. That is not to diminish the credit MON and the board is due in securing Henchoz and using their persuasive powers to get Balde re-signed but it is stretching credulity a little to consider the Bellamy signing as being part of a strategy.
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To Anon 3.07,
I think, if you research properly, that you will find that Newcastle United, Shepherd and all had accepted a £6 million offer from Birmingham City for the man who had nowhere to go. the player himself chose to go to Celtic turning down the chance to go to Birmingham.
Hence the wrath of Sullivan Celtic a bigger club but playing in a c**p league.
Martin 42
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There is NO way that MON has signed Bobo up to be a bench warmer/ injury replacement. He obviously regards him as an intregal part of our team.
The Mint played his cards terribly - thankfully.
Who didn't know that Bazza was coming back to Glasgow?
Blackburn just had to sit tight and watch the Mint twist and bust (the bank).
It will be hard to make the trips (finance, time and distance), but I personally can't wait to get out the SPL quango. EPL here we come...
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How many fellow fans do you reckon will be able to make the away trips to EPL grounds if the move takes place?
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Agree that Bellamy was a fortunate signing, it all
fell into place quite nicely. I would also have liked
to have got Hartley as well mind you, just to be
greedy! I think we always struggle in the Champions League with pace all over the pitch, but more so in midfield. The tempo is always a few gears higher than the SPL!
We usually play with one up front, BBJ, so we need the
pace from midfield to support. Although people don't
rate Hartley as CL quality, I think his pace breaking
from midfield would be an asset in Europe. If we manage to hold onto Bellamy then this will go a long
way in solving the problem.
We need to strengthen with pace to supplement the brawn.
Shammy
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The EPL move is a necessity as far as I am concerned.
Paul has more than stated the reasons many times; and I am very glad that someone has made the effort.
Where there is a will, there is a way.
Mini-bus? check. Willing driver? check. Massive carry-out? check. Then away we go...
Many fans manage it from England and Ireland just now.
Speaking from experience, when working in southern England, If we can get tickets - we will go.
I am sure we would fill our quota's in EPL grounds easily.
Celtic is a MASSIVE world-wide family.
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Hi All
NeilR /Fargo /Stephen Sullivan (Celtic View) and psychic's.
Anyone wanting to have a laugh (If you cant laugh at yourself ...) at a poorly timed article by our own Stephen Sullivan of the Celtic view (online) entitled - " There are no prema donnas in the hoops" - Vol 40 Issue 28 - which uses our own Craig as a bad example to us all(before signing). Who then appears front page as "Welsh Wonder" new signing in the next Issue29?
With a 'probable' agreement with NeilR on Fargo's 'possible' psychic capabilities I move that the Celtic View sign up Fargo immediately to prevent such gaffs happening in the future! I'm sure if Bellamy (the flea - Fargo)had been pre-ordained to be a Celt by MON and the board then poor Stephen would have been informed before putting pen to paper!
cheers
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Hail! Bhoys,
Poor Fargo, he just cannot win.
I think that he has proved his worth in spades.
In fact, only last week, I purchased 5,000 Preference Shares of Celtic plc @ 127P.
Sure it cost a fair penny, but remember,you have to move very early to make any money.
Also, the first thing you learn about stocks is, when you read about a recommendation in the F.T., you are months,too late.
Paul's info, backed by Fargo's, make a very compelling case. Especially for the Preference Issues.
Celtic's move into the EPL is only a matter of time.
Time is on my side. I can wait.
As a matter of interest, may I point out that Fargo's description of Craig Bellamy, is so apt, it is frightening.
The baggage that CB is toting is not small. He has proved to be a very disruptive element at Newcastle. No question.
Just as I would imagine a flea outbreak amongst the team would be too say the least, a little disconcerting.
Then there is the matter of Bellamy's small frame and delicate physical appearance. As a matter of fact, to me, he even has nebby quality about his looks.
It comes down to this, you either love Fargo or you hate him.
All or nothing at all.
I happen to think that he is the "real deal" and I am putting my money where my mouth is.
By the way, Fargo has made no mention of the Coolmore Syndicate.
I am still working on who the new faces in the game, that he is pointing to. But there are new hands itching for a piece of the Celtic pie, no guessing necessary.
NervousBhoy.
Sunny Saltcoats.
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to Freddiebhoy
I think that your comments re the CV article, only gives proof, that Mr. Fargo, has a far better flow of pukka info, than Mr. S.
Man, don't you know, that the Celtic site and View, is the last place, where critical info. would be leaked?
Fargo rules!
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Congratulations on a stimulating and intelligent Celtic forum. I have been reading for a few months now and enjoy the evolving debates. I would like to comment the editorial role taken by the presenters on Celtic TV with regards to Celtic playing within a revised EPL. The forcefulness of their rejection of the notion is in stark contrast to the noises made by the CEO and Chairman of the club. The fact that the arguments proferred as to why we won't transfer are so weak, i.e. "they don't want us down there, and Lou Macari says that they don't talk about us in the Sky studios" and "what if a team fom Portugal wanted to play in Spain", Etc., belies the level of intelligence of Mr. Craig and the affable Ally Begg. My laboured point is, why are the front men of the club sponsored CelticTV taking a diametrically opposite position fom their employers and what is their agenda.
I had trouble trying to set up a name for myself as it takes me all my time to send an e-mail so apologies if this appears as anonymous, Tom the Tim.
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Congratulations on a stimulating and intelligent Celtic forum. I have been reading for a few months now and enjoy the evolving debates. I would like to comment on the editorial role taken by the presenters on Celtic TV with regards to Celtic playing within a revised EPL. The forcefulness of their rejection of the notion is in stark contrast to the noises made by the CEO and Chairman of the club. The fact that the arguments proferred as to why we won't transfer are so weak, i.e. "they don't want us down there, and Lou Macari says that they don't talk about us in the Sky studios" and "what if a team fom Portugal wanted to play in Spain", Etc., belies the level of intelligence of Mr. Craig and the affable Ally Begg. My laboured point is, why are the front men of the club sponsored CelticTV taking a diametrically opposite position from their employers and what is their agenda.
I had trouble trying to set up a name for myself as it takes me all my time to send an e-mail so apologies if this appears as anonymous, Tom the Tim.
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"Tell them how far they can push you and move on if the other side do not accept your terms. It is, of course, hugely important not to make a fool of yourself at this stage.
Once people know that you don’t mean what you say you are easy meat. "
Touché! Monsieur 67. I am sure it is like the good old ‘offers over’ system. Was that the act of an experienced business man or a desperate fool caught between a rock and another rock?
Still can get a sign on.
ET
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As you say murray made an @ss out of himself but were's eck in all this business, eck just a puppet in my opinion. Glad we got Bellamy in and just hope we can hang onto him after the summer.
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Nervousbhoy
Any info on how you went about buying the shares?
Being of a financially inept mind, im not sure of the best way to purchase.
Ordinary, preference, im not sure of the difference and can u set shares up online?. I know Paul mentioned it on the boards months ago, but i still wasnt sure after reading it. Any info would be appreciated.
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Hello fellow tims
I have been enjoying a quiet snigger to myself since the deadline ended. You can almost picture the scene, Rangers minded hacks up and down this country of ours salivating at the fantastic pro Rangers copy they would be able to assault us with on the return of Barry Burberry.
All they had to do was sit tight as Murray tried his tried and trusted "you'll blink first" approach to transfer dealings, it couldn't fail, could it?
Well I remember Iain King , Fraser Wishart and Fat Derek telling us all that Blackburn couldn't hold on to an unhappy player, "they might not like it but they will have to let him come back to Rangers". Really?
As the days and hours wore on a frantic Iain King was all but pleading live on radio to Murray, " you cant leave Barry hung out to dry" he squealed.
A host of ex huns were trotted out in print and on radio and tv begging for this move to go through, "just what Rangers need", "Barry's heart is with Rangers", "the teams been lacking without him" etc,etc.
Still....Murray didn't blink.
"The deal is dead" exclaimed an arrogant Murray, still playing his poker hand very badly, at this point a distraught Iain King was incandescent with rage, he was over a barrel you see, he didn't dare come out in print and criticise Murray but he had smugly predicted Ferguson's return.
It was a bad time for all the Murray laptop loyal and it was about to get a whole lot worse.
I dont know about you but as soon as I heard that there was even a chance, a sniff, a possibility, of Craig Bellamy coming to Celtic, I remained rooted to my PC and Sky Sports News all day long.
Now this WAS a signing to make everyone pay attention.
The pressure on Murray from that point onwards was overbearing. He had gone from any supposed position of strength to one of abject defeat. He knew that when MON pulled off the transfer of the year in signing Bellamy he had to get Ferguson back at any cost or the backlash from the fans would be incredible.
What a shambles.
What a result for Celtic.
While a clearly delighted MON was unveiling Bellamy to the gathered masses at CP, Barry was introduced to the less than enthusiastic few at Ibrox.
What a PR success for a much maligned Celtic board, what a PR disaster it was for Rangers.
I think that MON has learned well from previous transfer dealings and although I realise that there was more than a bit of good fortune involved in Craig signing for us I liked what Martin had said previously in that Celtic would not be signing players just for the sake of it, unlike others.
It has been a good January for us and I'm more than hopeful that we can go on now and have a right good go at the double, Bellamy will certainly be a strong addition to our squad.
Good times ahead .
Hail, hail.
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Excellent, Well said Craignuikbhoy. During their 9 iar decade Murray showed that his early business life success had gone to his head now its so far up his own..... I used to begrudgingly admire him and the obvious strengh of character that brought him over his physical condition but since the 'I'll spend a tenner..' era he has developed into some sort of bombastic super arogant ego maniac. Ah thats better. Been wanting to get that off my chest.
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Couple of things
The Hoops traveling to England for away games, my bus has already discussed this and we have decided at the start of the season Sky permitting we would choose 5 away games which we would run buses. Any members wishing to traveling to any others make there own arrangments, but im sure Ipswich on Monday night wouldn't get many takers!!!!
Listening to Radio 5 last night and they were talking about ticket prices.
On average a manure fan pays £21.00 per game if he is a season ticket holder. I pay £21.00 per game as well if i work out the cost of my book per game.
For me the manure fans are getting a better product for the same money as im paying to watch the spl.
Surely something wrong in this?
On the same note manure are one of the cheapest in the EPL with chelski average price £50.00 per ticket being the highest.
If/when the hoops ply there trade in the epl we can expect to be Cat A games. Due to this in england at the moment Cat A game ticket prices range from £30 to £60 with the only two examples of Cat A games i know of and can confirm the prices are last weeks south coast derby cheapest ticket was £35.00 and the last time manure played at St Andrews they paid £45.
Suddenly £20.00 for East End Park doesn't seem as bad!!!
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Let's have a wild stab in the dark here.
Celtic/Youth side/Milton Keynes Dons.
dialupcelt..
toodleooothenootoyoutoo!!
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Another stab in the dark might be that the person from Saltcoats writes in a manner similar to that of Fargo, T-bone and Diane. Non?
J
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On the subject of how many of us would travel for games down south - the commentator at Blackburn v Chelsea the other night said that the Chelsea fans were making quite a noise and had brought a fantastic away support - 2,000 of them!!!!! At every testimonial/pre-season game in England we've taken 10,000. Every game would be a sell out - there are supporters clubs all over England and our Irish support would find a lot of games more accessible than comin to Glasgow. It's a no brainer.
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hi bhoys,
does no one else share my concerns that it is only due to the boards reluctance to spend money and mon's innability to pick up players cheaply and wisely that we are looking at the 4 month signing of a player with ongoing problems both on and off the park as a good thing?
we are also told that the re-signing of balde is a good thing yet most fans i talk to admit he has cost us so dear in europe over the last few years!
looks to me that we are all being taken in by celtics pr dept!
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Yes, it would be nigh on impossible to go to all the games. Yes, it would be hard to stay at home that Sat/Sun. Personally I prefer quality over quantity, and the benefits therein.
The vastly increased TV revenue being one that immediately springs to mind. We all know how hard it is to attract the best players to the Scotland.
We are stagnating in the SPL.
If we are ever going to conquer Europe again, we MUST increase our revenue and quality of our SQUAD.
East End Park over St. James park - give me a break.
MON is working his damnest with the constraints that are presently in place.
If you are Billionaire with hundred of millions to pour into our club, you won't make that kind of investment in the SPL.
There will be no fairy godmother/father in our present situation.
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Hello fellow tims
To the anon above who thinks that we are being taken in by Celtic's PR Dept, are you serious?
Craig Bellamy will prove to be an excellent signing for Celtic and it is to Celtic's credit that we have managed to secure his services when he quite clearly had other options open to him.
Birmingham City are so keen to land Bellamy that they are on record in saying that they hope to take him back down south at the end of his loan period, even after the guy had publicly snubbed them to sign for us. So this was not a player without options.
I do wish that people who hide behind an anon blog and come on here in the main to carp and criticise would do us all a favour and give yourself a name so that we can all give you our opinions "face to face" so to speak.
How hard is it to register a "handle"?
We all have differing opinions, that is what makes this site compulsive viewing for us.
I have more time personally with guys like my good friend Negative Anon who is hardly giving his ID away with his name but at least we can all relate to him and his differing slant on all things Celtic.
I sometimes wonder if more than a few of our Anon posters really do have loyalties towards our club or do they as I sometimes suspect have a different agenda to follow, perhaps on the other side of the city.
All opinions are welcome here but give yourselves a name(any name) and we can then have an open and honest exchange of views without wondering if we are talking to one Anon or 101 Anons!
Hail,hail.
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Good point re posting Craigneukbhoy. It's almost as annoying as those cold calls you get where the caller is clearly reading from a script(usually badly). I hang up. Give yourself a handle in the post if you can't log on!!
A word on the 'Miracle of the Flea'. Blessed be those who are without hope. For you shall inherit the EPL, millions of pounds and the Champions League. Have you ever read your horoscope(c'mon you sneak a look don't you?!) and thought. "My God that is so accurate. I really have had a shit day." And then read it again and thought you could equally have had a great day and the same would have applied....
We would all like there to be some grand design, that the 'enlightened' at CQN have a hotline to. For the most part we are all groping about in the dark and trying to piece together the bits and pieces of clues we get from what actually happens. At least it's a lot less wearying than the lcd websites.
As for the 'Flea' himself. Well, lets face it. He's a wee nyaff. So much so that BBJ(no saint himself) has had to give him a formal warning before he's even half-way in the door. Now lets hope that he's seen that footage of Berkovic getting on the wrong side of him so he'll know that it doesn't matter to him if they're half the size. On a positive note he is definitely an exceptional footballer. He must be. Soooness says he's rubbish.
Fandango
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Gents,
RE: Fargo's ID
I believe this guy to be, at best, condescending, patronising and extremely over enamoured of his limited literary capabilities.
At worst he's a complete waste of our time. I'm of the camp who beleve there is a very foggy flat in Dalmarnock where Fargo, Diane and friends are all leading full and interesting lives in the vivid and worryingly twisted imagination of this con man.
The only shred of credibility in my eyes relates to Paul recieving hits from the Caymans. However as soon as there was talk of the Caymans on this site, this obviously registered on the web.
In fact if you google - Grand Cayman Celtic and have a look at what comes up you may find it interesting. I believe the post I looked at was, in fact, discussing one of our contributors having watched a recent game (on tv) with the supporters club there.
So, apart from the fact that anyone from the Caymans interested in the club was probably directed to this site. There is also the likliehood that the poster has subsequently mentioned to his acquaintances on the Caymans about CQN and their searches resulted in the hits.
Anyway, I know it's off topic but it has been bugging me.
Have a good weekend.
Regards
Yogi
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Hello everyone
Not posted for some time so this is old news, but still feeling delighted about Henchoz, Bellamy and Balde. Whatever Bobo’s weaknesses, he is a guy that many of us feel genuine affection for, and his re-signing boosted the feel-good factor. I’ll never forget his 70-yard run and slide tackle on Capucho in Seville. It’s the only time I’ve ever leapt out my seat and punched the air over a tackle. I think it was because you could see that he had put absolutely everything he had into it – the kind of effort we all imagine ourselves putting in if we ever got the chance to don the hoops. Not to mention I’ve 2 kids who are just recovering from the loss of Henrik; losing Bobo as well would have been too much. My childhood memories of losing the likes of Hay and Dalglish are still painful, and we can be glad that despite playing in an even worse league than then, we can now actually hang onto our best players.
Regarding an earlier post, what are the obstructions to us buying MK Dons and using that “franchise” to move to the English league (obviously changing the name to Celtic and playing home games at CP). I remember it was suggested before, and given the losses they are currently making, the current owners would bite our hands off for any decent offer. Can anyone confirm if this is a genuine possibility?
I know it would mean starting at a low level, and missing out on at least a couple of years in Europe, but I would almost prefer this to a straight parachute into EPL 2 as it would mean leaving the other Glasgow teams in the SPL, and finally end this insulting “old firm” link once and for all.
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Greetings, Paul67 et al,
Ach, gutenmorgen meine Freunde,("Hey, what's up, Boss?....Is the needle stuck?........."So sorry about that, wrong tape...")
This fine morning I went with a few of the Lhads for a walk in the park.
We had an appointment to see a man about a Horse.
Just as we approached him, my Cell Tinkled("Say, Fargo.... that doesn't sound right." chastised Vito."You are el correcto,Vito,babe. I shall re-phrase the offending utterance."
My cell beckoned("Better?). The startling news was so riveting, that I just had to pass on the following Communique to you chhaps.
("It is straight from the Horse's Mouth, so to speak, then?".... suggested Vito.....(Yes, compadre, you are right, once again. My, My , that is two in a row for you.")
CELTIC GO GATHERING NUTS IN MAY,
NUTS IN MAY, NUTS IN MAY,
CELTIC GO GATHERING NUTS IN MAY,
CHEERS WILL RESOUND THROUGH THE LAND.
MARTIN WILL SHOOT FOR THE MOON IN JUNE,
MOON IN JUNE, MOON IN JUNE,
MARTIN WILL SHOOT FOR THE MOON IN JUNE,
WHEN BRIAN FILLS UP HIS CAN!
CELTIC WILL SIGN A VERY BIG NAME,
VERY BIG NAME, VERY BIG NAME,
CELTIC WILL SIGN A VERY BIG NAME,
THEN MARTIN SIGNS MORE OF THE SAME!!
CHEERS WILL RESOUND THROUGHOUT THE LAND,
THROUGHOUT THE LAND, THROUGHOUT THE LAND,
CHEERS WILL RESOUND THROUGHOUT THE LAND,
GLASGOW CELTIC WILL NEVER BE THE SAME!!!
Got to rush now LLads, still have to see that Man about that Darned Horse~~~~~~~~~
Fargo,Barefoot in the Park,
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Hope Bellamy starts on Sunday !!
Good article below
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/feature?id=323996&cc=5739
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anyone can post badly pretending to be fargo. look at the article 2 above this
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OGMA
Celtic CPO Shares can be purchased through any Stockbrokers,
However, in your case I recommend that you call
Celtic Shareholders Helpline:0845 143 4004
Tell them that you are interested in the CPO issue.
(CPO is Convertible Preferred Ordinary Shares}
Those are selling at 127p.
But they are the ones that you should be most interested in, at this time.
You will be in good company;
Martin has 1,200,000
Pearse Flynn has 800,000
Dermot Desmond has 8,000,000
and I believe Brian Quinn has 800,000, maybe even more.
Hope that this helps.
Remember, this is not an invitation to buy, it is for general information only.
What you do with your own money is strictly your own choice.
NervousBhoy, Saltcoats.
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Oh ye of little faith.
There appears to be a contingency of subscribers to this site who, in their `told you so' fashion will be delighted if Fargo turns out to be a nonentity.
Of course, any one of us can easily make such a statement but let's just wait to see if indeed there is more to the enigma that is Fargo.
Fargo condescending...never! Short of literary ability...hardly! A learned poet....perhaps not. Entertaining... of course.
Jeromek
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thanks for the info nervousbhoy
gonna see if i can purchase some next week
now that January is out the way!
cheers
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Jeromek
Good for you,dude.
We always like to read about a little respect, given to our hero!
Diane is now in Boston. Taking some Prelims.
Which are no prob for that kid! I will fill the vacancy for now.
Back to Fargo. And we know who he is. He is not what we thought firstly.
Take our word for it, he is for real........... and.......... he is
a Hunk!
We girls know these things.
"Six Foot Two, Eyes of Blue............"
Yeah! Baby! That about right!
Love and Kisses to all Fargo Fans, Boos and Hisses to the other
jealous geeks!
Lotsa Love,Guys
Korky and Lilibet
LMU
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Fargo knockers, leave him alone. I don't begin to understand half of it but he (she or even they) are well entertaining and add a massive amount of character to this site. Fargo I look forward to not remotely understanding your next post aswell. Cheers
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Fargo chooses to post anonymously, which means others can impersonate him. At one point I thought of doing it myself (planning to admit it later) but felt better soon afterwards.
Fargo's Spanish is well dodgy but "Usted es el correcto" stands out like a stream of bat's piss even in that context, and the poetic allusions are rather pedestrian by previous standards. I'd guess this is a pastiche by someone else.
Of course, if Fargo took the site as seriously as some others take him, he'd spend 30 seconds acquiring an online identity which would at least tell us and his devoted alter egos Korky & Lilbet (hey girls, when did they start singing 70s Scottish football songs on campus?) when it's him, and when some (other?) demented bammer from Dalmarnock is online.
Having said that, this is an open blog, anyone can contribute and it's clear enough that Fargo has his audience, including Paul. At least he tells us all things we want to hear, and keeps us off the subject of amortisation from time to time. Lang may his modem reek.
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thedominie,
Yeah! Babe. You tell 'em! (By the way, love your pseudonym}
This is Lilibet,guys.
And Fargo, he ain't no dame. No sirree!
I donno who started that rumor, but it is for the boids!
We just think he is the bees knees,and you are so right, he is an entertainer.
You are lucky, you are getting a few laughs for free.
It usually costs a hades of a lot more.
Amen~~~~~~~~
Love you Guys, and Korky also sends a Ditto!
Lilibet
LMU
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NeilR
Don't look now, but i believe your Fargo Envy is showing and
rather obviously, don't you think?
The vitriol is simply oozing out of your pores, today.
As usual you add nothing to the site. You are so taken up with
Fargo Envy, that you just can't think straight.
All of your thoughts are so boring it is pathetic.
Have a nice day
TheRipper
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OH GOD, as if Fargo wasn't bad enough it now seems rhat the site has been hijacked by a "FAUX FARGO" ( try saying that after 8 Buds).
Please stop with all this nonsense, I strongly feel that all Paul's hard work in setting up this wonderful site will soon prove to be in vain unless we rid ourselves of all this bunkum.
The Diane /Fargo /T-Bone , Lilibet, Korky et al ad infinitum, pantomime is wearing a bit thin in sunny Craigneuk I have to say.
At first it started out as a bit of a laugh and I, like all the rest on CQN, enjoyed reading Fargo's flowery prose and trying to unravel all the "clues".
That enjoyment has long gone, it went for me when the "girls from Loyola" nudge, nudge , wink, wink, started posting.
IQ of 190 indeed, gie's a break, no laptop, gie's a break, only you seem to be able to solve "Fargo's drivel, gie's a break.The whole thing stinks to high heaven and beyond.
I checked the web and as far as I can make out the HIGHEST RECORDED IQ( using the preferred method of testing) in the world belonged to Marilyn Vos Savant and that was 190. For goodness sake people, Albert Einstein was recorded at 161.
Lets all get back to the real matters in hand and forget all this stupidity, please.
I understand that there is some decent Medication now availlable for multiple personality disorders.
Hail, hail and no hate mail please from Fargoites.
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craigneukbhoy
grow up. Its an interweb chat blog not the Turin Shroud here. yes i find the forced surrealism a wee bit tiresome but no less than the sanctimonious shite that others think constitutes grown up debate. Its like a never-ending students union debate. nothing more.
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craigneukbhoy - spot on.
No it's not the Turin Shoud (whatever that's meant to mean), or the Fargo, or assorted anonymous drivel, or the Lilletes site.
It's a Celtic FC discussion board - for the love of Ghod.
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Craigneukbhoy
You can run but you cannot hide
It is obvious once again that you also have a sad case of Fargo Envy.
You are totally bereft of one iota of intelligence.
All of you suppositions are just that , and ridiculous suppositions
too.
Don't you know, for goodness sake, that Fargo has his tongue firmly
on his cheek, when he is telling his amusing tales?
Try standing on a chair, the next time you read one of Fargo's
postings.
They are evidently going way over your head.
And remember the next time you dare to demean Fargo--- I will be
watching.
Try and come up with some insightful thoughts for a change. I know
it will be an effort-----for you!
Leave Fargo out of your postings and what do you have.
A big fat zero!
TheRipper
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Hey Ripper!!
Lay off Craigneukbhoy.I'm watching you watching him.(A bit like that Paul Auster novel-first CQN poster to get it does have a big IQ!!)
You won't get away with it anyway. What's "Fargo Envy" supposed to mean? I've heard of "Penis Envy"....
C'mon the'tic!!
Fandango
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OK, I'm serously bored, and we shouldn't always be waiting for Paul to bring us back on track when discussions erupt on the metaphysics of Fargo. For anyone wanting to talk about something else, how about Pujol's resurrection of the old Wimbledon idea? It's set me thinking again on that topic.
I have some tangential dealings with competition law in my work, and I'm told that bigger fish than UEFA are going to be fried in the next few years following recent developments in European law. How could Celtic take advantage of this? I've seen lots of people talk about this in general terms, but there never seem to be any specifics. Let's try to put some flesh on the bones.
There are various ways to structure a deal, but I reckon the authorities, both there and here, would have an extra-large headache if faced with something like the following (assuming Wimbledon as the target). There is a point to the convoluted structure, as I'll explain below.
1 Find an ambitious third club (Gretna maybe?) willing to buy its way out of the lower leagues in Scotland.
2 Wimbledon 'take over' Celtic with a share issue that leaves Celtic shareholders with say 98% of the club.
3 Wimbledon's directors resign, leaving the merged company's board looking suspiciously like Celtic's current one.
4 All Celtic's assets, including the trading name and player's contracts, but excluding its registration with the SPL, are lifted out of the subsidiary (Celtic) and into the parent company (Wimbledon).
5 The entire previous playing staff of Wimbledon are sold for whatever the club can get, or given frees, or sit out their contracts and leave. All backroom staff are made redundant. The stadium lease is bought out. All aspects of the club not connected with Celtic cease to operate.
6 The owner of Gretna (or whoever the third party is) buys the shell company that was Celtic, and follows the same procedure, thus levering Gretna into the SPL.
7 Gretna resigns its original position in the Scottish league.
End result from the fans' point of view:
a) An unchanged Celtic team playing under MON in the English League, but based in Glasgow,
b) Gretna playing in the SPL (or more probably the 1st division as they'd be relegated from the SPL on ground criteria) and based in Gretna, and
c) The footballing entity called Wimbledon FC going quetly of business (cue wild celebrations in SW London ensuring that another corner of the globe is forever Celtic-minded).
I would love to see the FA/SFA/UEFA blazers try to block that deal. On competition and free trade arguments, the authorities don't have a chance. It's a basic tenet of EC law that any company should be free to situate itself and pursue its business anywhere in the EC. It's not even an interesting question.
The only sensible line of argument I can see for the authorities would be a rather woolly public interest one based on sporting integrity, the avoidance of conflicts of interest etc etc. The problem is that with a deal structured like the one above, a lot of those points are answered before they raise them.
* The entity now playing English league football but based in Glasgow would be the company formerly known as Wimbledon FC, occupying exactly the same place in the English league it had before the deal. The only thing which has changed is the location of its stadium (oh, and its name and its strip and the fans and maybe a few new players! but legally it's the same company).
* The entity called Gretna now playing football in the SPL (or 1st division if they don't do an ICT) is the company formerly known as Celtic - in the same or a lower place than it currently occupied.
* The league position of Gretna becomes vacant, allowing another ambitious club (Huntly, Spartans) to join the Scottish league.
No unfair sporting advantage there then; nobody being relegated to make space for interlopers, nobody being unfairly promoted, nothing.
What about the UEFA rules against someone controlling more than one club? Uh-uh; simultaneous deals mean that never happens.
We're struggling to come up with an argument here, the judge is starting to look impatient.
Well, it's obviously unfair, these guys with lots of money have taken over a small company and put it out of business for their own benefit. What will happen to football when others do the same? What is to stop Ajax taking over Crewe? Surely that is anti-competitive?
Er, no, quite the opposite. Welcome to the real world. Big businesses take over small businesses all the time. Are they abusing a dominant market position (to the detriment of the consumer, not the small company?) No? Is the football market a monopoly or oligopoly? Get real, there are a couple of dozen if not more firms vying to occupy the top few slots in the fiercely competitive European market.
Case closed; we find against the plaintiff. Go right ahead with your takeover gents, and as for you lot (this addressed to UEFA's lawyers), please pick up a free copy of the Treaty of Rome on your way out of court so you don't waste our time again.
When other clubs do the same, as they assuredly will (Rangers should buy Millwall, they're obvious soul-mates already), we will move rapidly towards a European League or perhaps 3-4 major regional leagues around the continent, as the century-old stagnation - sorry, stability - caused by national cartels - sorry, leagues - is undermined in a few short years by companies seeking out the most profitable opportunities available to them in the football market.
In practice, after the first move of this sort, the subsequent utter collapse of national league's defences against cross-border interlopers would mean a more direct move towards change in European football.
UEFA would probably recognise the futility of fighting early on, and would concentrate on keeping whatever power they could within the emerging structure.
SFA committee members would be able to waffle about the future of the New Galactic All-Scottish League (2008 champions: Brechin) as all medium-sized clubs merge into a new British feeder league.
But what about the fans? Won't someone think of the fans? Well, let's think for a moment what will determine the extra profitablility that will drive Celtic, or some other club, to set the cat amongst the pigeons? Ultimately, how many customers - sorry, fans - are willing to pay to watch or be associated with the new and supposedly improved product. If it's not good for fans, it will never happen.
There are a good few issues I haven't raised here, but then I want to stimulate discussion rather than flatten it with a 40 page business plan. What do you think? Can we talk about this for a while now? Or does someone have yet another strong opinion about whether Fargo is or isn't the reclusive 70 year old billionaire Jim 'Dorian Gray' Holton?
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brilliant article, great to see some of us are capable o |
