 Thursday, February 17, 2005
Reasons why Celtic Interim Accounts are later than usual?
If Celtic were behaving in the manner they have been doing so in recent years, they would have published their Interim Accounts on Monday 14th February.
That the Stock Market has closed on 17th February with no news is significant. The Stock Market likes predictability. They like to see accounts arrive when expected and generally get concerned with their investments when the expected information is late.
Celtic and every other PLC know this. Four days might not seem a lot; however, four days with people wondering what is happening to their investments is not what Celtic would want.
I have been pondering the reasons.
Maybe it’s bad news. Possible, but unlikely, Celtic have only delivered loss making accounts for many years now. The effect of bad news has been well tempered.
Maybe it’s good news, there might be a profit! As I said earlier this week, we will see an operational profit and there is a possibility we will see a small overall profit. Could it be that we are keeping a good financial story for the business day before a Rangers game?
Possible, however, I cannot see anyone thinking that Celtic players will be fired up because of a small profit.
No, I suspect that Celtic are four days late because Celtic are pregnant with a plan.
Announcing your Interim results would be an excellent time to make an announcement on another matter, for example a share issue.
As has been well covered on Celtic Quick News in the past, Celtic will not need a share issue to invest in the team come the summer. However, as we have also discussed extensively here in the past, there are all sorts of opportunities bubbling away at the moment.
I am sure that there are long term issues under consideration at the moment which have delayed publication of the Interim results. Could it be that the button is about to be pressed on the big play?
60 Comments:
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Hi Paul
Thanks for a thought provoking site. For those of us who can't see beyond whether we should play Douglas or Hedman, can you explain further why a four day delay would make such a difference ?. If there is something afoot, I would hope that it has been well thought out and in the planning for a while, and therefore why not announce this on Monday? And if it's the case that there is work still to be done, then why announce it this week at all ?
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Hi Paul
Thanks for a thought provoking site. For those of us who can't see beyond whether we should play Douglas or Hedman, can you explain further why a four day delay would make such a difference ?. If there is something afoot, I would hope that it has been well thought out and in the planning for a while, and therefore why not announce this on Monday? And if it's the case that there is work still to be done, then why announce it this week at all ?
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Glasgowdave
In normal circumstances there should be no delay. The board will have had these accounts for at least a month by now.
If they are planning a share issue there are many other arrangements to confirm; have the shares underwritten, do the legals, prepare the plans, not to mention get the agreement on why you are raising the money in the first place.
They might do nothing at this stage, however, there must be some reason for the delay, even if we don’t get to hear about it now.
Thanks for your kind words about the site.
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Hi Paul dont want to sound sycophantic but it is a great site and I need my fix each day. What is your gut feeling Paul regards the delay do you or The Insider have any rumours/gossip/tips as to whats going on?
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Thanks Anon, the site has taken on a life of its own, thanks to all the excellent contributors.
In answer to your question; I would not ask questions this close to an announcement as I am sure no answers would be given. This info is less sexy than transfer news, but much more significant.
I know we are planning for the EPL. I know that we will need a share issue to help us build for the move and then probably a second issue closer to the time.
I expect the Interim results tomorrow (Friday). If there is anything to report on the back of this I’ll be on the case.
Gut feeling? They are weighing up what stage we are at with the move to the EPL and whether to go for the share issue now or not. I am 100% sure that this is on the agenda at the moment.
Blogger is running v slow tonight. If you are planning to post click early as it is taking a while.
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Hi Lhads
I've been following this site for a few weeks now and its just full of food for thought. Think I'll stick a £10er on celtic to win the EPL in the next ten years.
Paddy Power running around Park Heed in the nip would be a sight. Keep the info flowing and Hopefully we do have good news on friday.
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Paul,
Should a share issue be the plan what type of shares or overall issue do you expect? I'm wondering if the club are asking their financial heavyweights to dig deeper or if they're going to come to the ordinary fans.....again. Let's not forget the failed promises of the last share issue, unless that fabled training facilty has been built without my knowledge that is.
I genuinely hope the club realise that the average bhoy/ghirl gives as much as they can each year, I know I do. If they're looking for extra funds I hope they look in the right place. The statement released following the 'Rich list' being published would hint that they do acknowledge our contribution, but actions speak louder than words.
qmark.
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Morning all.
The Deloitte rich list report makes interesting reading. Here's the section on Celtic.
The Scottish Premier League champions, along with their neighbours and Old Firm rivals Rangers, are the only Money League representatives from outside the ‘Big Five’ European Leagues. Celtic moved up five places this year as turnover rose 20% to reach €104.2m (£69m).
A big boost came from a prolonged European campaign in which
they reached the first group phase of the Champions League, and
subsequently the quarter-finals of the UEFA Cup.
Celtic’s matchday income of €52.5m (£34.7m) accounted for over
half of total turnover, the highest proportion of any of our top 20 clubs. The club’s huge domestic fan base is reflected in an average home domestic league attendance of over 58,000.
Commercial revenues also increased due to 2003/04 being the first
year of a new shirt sponsorship deal with beer brand Carling,
negotiated jointly with Glasgow rivals Rangers and worth a
combined €18.1m (£12m) to Celtic over three seasons. Commercial
revenues will rise in future seasons after the club negotiated a kit sponsorship deal with Nike worth €37.8m (£25m) over five seasons, commencing in 2005/06.
The relatively low value of the SPL’s broadcast deal, means that future revenue growth is likely to depend on the club’s ability to further develop their own commercial revenues, and progress in the Champions League. The fact that Glasgow has two teams in the
Money League is a testament to the Old Firm’s brand strength –
particularly their matchday figures. For the city to have as many representatives as Spain and Germany and more than France is a
phenomenal achievement.
Anyone wanting the full report can register to get it (free) at http://www.deloitte.co.uk/RegistrationForms/THL_MoneyLeague.asp or if you object to registering with them, e-mail me on cqn[at]neilrobertson.com and I'll send you a copy.
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qmark
If there is a share issue it will be underwritten by the existing big investors who I am sure would be happy to take up all the shares themselves. While this will make Celtic better funded, I would still be keen to see small shareholders take up their entitlement as in the future more and more of the club will be concentrated in fewer and fewer hands.
If we move to England we are about to become a very profitable club.
I cannot get too hung-up about the last share issue not building a training facility. The money was spent on the first team squad instead, which is how I would have preferred it.
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tim_lovebite
Looking at the D&T report, a couple of quick questions:
How did the Boche generate so much more commercial income in the 2003/04 season? Was it their grow-your-own-kit deal?
Other than the Nike deal, which obviously is significant, what else is the club doing, or could it be doing, to improve in this area? We're running out of DVD opportunities, and to be honest as a punter I'm running out of cash to throw at the club.
Fantastic site by the way, well done all round.
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Celtic has got a lot of credit in the Deloitte report for maximising its stadium revenue streams, but there is an opportunity to improve it further.
Celtic will play the Republic of Ireland in Jackie Mac’s testimonial in May, but has the club given any thought to bidding for the rights to host the Republic’s international matches when Lansdowne Road is being redeveloped (2006-08)? I ask this because of a big debate going on in Ireland over whether the GAA will change its rules to allow soccer (and rugby) to be played at Croke Park, an 83,000 capacity stadium that is used exclusively for Gaelic football and hurling. Figures have been bandied about in the Irish media claiming that the GAA could claim rent of €2.5 million per match (about £1.7 million sterling). Nevertheless, it is unlikely that the GAA will change its rules so the FAI will be looking for a temporary home.
The Republic will have half a dozen European Championships qualifiers while the redevelopment is under way (to say nothing of friendly matches) and rental income from those matches at Celtic Park could further improve revenue streams. The English team’s tour of premiership stadiums while Wembley is being built has been a big hit with the fans. Does anyone know what kind of rent the grounds were able to get from the English FA?
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Paul,
You stated that the big investor would hoover up the shares. Do you think there will be any chance for a small investor, like myself, to buy shares in the club?
NeilR
I like the idea of the Republic playing on the hallowed turf but surely there is some rule against playing home matches in a foreign, if friendly, country?
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Ooops, for NeilR read BurtMan.
Sorry.
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Still no news on the interims, which I find surprising. Are there any fine for late reporting of these accounts?
As for the rich list, the results of this underline our need to be in the EPL. Our turnover is huge. There is no denying that. Only a dozen clubs take in more cash than us at present. With this level of turnover, we should be doing better, particularly in Europe. But why aren't we?
The main reason, and this is by no means the only one, is because we are in the position where we need to pay our players a premium to come to us and play in the inferior SPL. Our huge turnover is quickly eaten up by the huge wages we pay players. Paying the likes of Sutton, Thompson, etc so well, is needed so that we entice them and then keep them. If we got to the EPL, then as well as earning more cash, we would no longer need to pay this premium to keep our best payers. We would also have a wider selection pool available because some players will refuse to play in the SPL no matter what the money.
So far, in the EPL debate, it has all come down to money, money, money. I think that we could make a huge impact in the EPL even if we foreited our TV income for a couple of years. The quality of player available to us would be so much greater, and we would be a better team as a result.
Can't wait for Sunday. It will be good to put them in their place. But we need to get the first goal. They are on a high just now and we cannot afford to give them a further boost. I do think though, that we will win 2-1 or 1-0. Bellamy will DEFINITELY score.
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tim_lovebite, the Rangers shirt deal will be the main reason for the increase in their commercial income.
This highlights an important point in relation to the Rich List; it only measures gross income, and ignores associated expenses. Some income types come more or less free of charge (e.g. TV rights). Others involve significant costs (items sold in club shops have to be bought first, and all the shop overheads covered), so that the net contribution to the club's income may be much smaller than the headline figure would indicate.
Rangers merchandising deal falls into this category. They bear all the costs of designing, manufacturing and distributing the shirts, and of marketing them world-wide (which they probably do via an agent, who will charge them for the prvilege). So if they show say £8M of gross income, the net value to them would probably be less than half that amount. By contrast, the £5M+ a year Celtic will get from Nike is clear profit, with any further margin on selling the Nike kit through club outlets on top of that.
Rangers' approach also carries the major risk that if their shirt sales fall, that hits them directly. Of course, there's an bigger upside too if they increase sales. However, in an industry where much of your income is highly volatile (e.g. CL qualifying) finance directors place a real premium on stable income sources, which in turn allow them to commit more money to medium-term commitments like expensive player contracts.
Paul did some comparisons on the kit deals a while back. We shift a lot more shirts than Rangers, our international profile is higher, and the Nike deal reflects that. So appearances are deceptive in this case; Rangers' deal inflates their income a lot more than it does their profits, and it represents a relatively unreliable source of income.
On your other question, I think that Celtic are doing as well as could reasonably be expected - rather better in fact - in merchandising terms already. Increased on-field success and a move to a bigger league are the only two things which will shift a load more shirts; as you rightly point out most existing fans are spending as much as they can or want to on the club already.
The Deloitte report bangs on about the need for clubs to have a long-term plan re acquiring new fans, and turning those fans into paying customers. One of the things they criticise is the lack of consistency in choosing venues for pre-season friendlies. The North American market is Celtic's obvious target; for as long as we're in the SPL we're going to struggle to make a big impression outside of there and the much smaller target of Australia/New Zealand. I'd expect to see us going back there on a regular basis over the next few years.
burtman, great idea re the ROI games. Let's hope someone close to the board is reading this thread.
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Paul,
I don't think there's a rule against it. I recall the Republic playing Lichenstein in Barcelona (not the Camp Nou though) a couple of years back. Much like the current FAI, the Lichenstein FA didn't have a stadium big enough to host the game.
The Republic playing at Celtic Park would be a marketing manager's dream. Hosting them at Celtic Park would also allow Celtic to capitalise on the latent support that exists for the club in Ireland, especially if a move to the EPL is, as it seems, in the offing. Most Irish soccer fans have a soft spot for Celtic, but as a second team after an English one. This would be a chance to show some of them the light.
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tim_lovebite
NeilR - thanks. Much what I thought.
Brian74 - you said: "If we got to the EPL, then as well as earning more cash, we would no longer need to pay this premium to keep our best payers."
I'm not convinced that our players are earning a higher basic wage (leave bonuses out of it) than they would in the EPL. We would still have to pay our players a wage competitive with other EPL clubs, which would result in a wage bill comparable with or in excess of the current bill. The financial benefit is that that wage bill would be a lower proportion of income.
Burtman - it was Andorra, not Liechtenstein, but you're right, there is the precedent. Wales also played at Anfield while the Cardiff Arms was being rebuilt.
I would expect the FAI may seek to do what England are doing, and play games in different locations - Manchester and Liverpool are equally or more accessible from Dublin as Glasgow, and each city has a considerable diaspora.
That said, if there is some form of tendering process and Celtic undercut other bidders, the FAI have never shied away from the cheap option.
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Slightly off the finance topic but this months When Saturday Comes magazine carries an article on the restructuring of Australian soccer (now renamed football) club league. They will have the Hyundi A-League kicking off in August with seven Aussie teams & New Zealand Knights from across the water, so to speak. Whilst obviously UEFA are not involved in this decision it has not been blocked by FIFA which backs-up what our pal Sepp had been saying....
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Brian 74- althought the interims are later than they were last year the PLC have until the end of March..(ie 90 days after the period end) to file them..
Paul
I would love to think they are pregnant with a plan(and its twins)...but my glass half empty attitude believes they will be released on Monday after the old firm game..
Although the players are not motivated by profits- any negative press..ie Celtic in huge loss shocker!!!, Celtic pay for Champions league failure!!!... on the eve of sundays game may demotivate some fans (obviously not cqn readers) and players.(Cue Celtic in PR Disaster!!)
Sundays suggested line up:
Douglas
Henchoz, Balde, Varga
McNamara, Lennon, Petrov, Thompson
Sutton
Bellamy, Hatson
Can't wait....
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Rumoid,
I tend to agree. Celtic have been remarkably consistent in the dates on which they have released their interim results - '01 13th Feb, '02 7th Feb, '03 14th Feb and '04 13th Feb. Why be at least a week later this time? Either bad news by way of a loss or something bigger by way of a rights issue. I suspect we'll see them on Monday morning. 7 sets of interims have been released today and that looks like the lot - the market is dead on a Friday afternoon.
The team listed by Rumoid is a cert - the bench? McGeady,TWF,Maloney,Laurssen,Marshall? The Huns in all of the phone ins are talking the game up big style and expecting a win - I love humping them (even more)when they are in that mood (hate the town after it right enough - got caught in wrong place/wrong time last season).
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PS. I see someone bought 10,000 shares yesterday morning - small example of "insider trading"??
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Cracking thread - exciting times, feels like we're on the cusp of something really groundbreaking and all the more so as a result of the great work by you bhoys.
But listen, my powerbook packed in and so no game for me on Sunday unless someone can tell me of a boozer showing the game in the Murcia/Torrevieja/Alicante areas. Any ideas?
Help!
McGrain
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McGrain
Here are a couple of Irish pubs from irishabroad.com
Corkys
c/maestro Francisco Casanova, 10, Torrevieja
0034659884620
nduggan15@hotmail.com
Durty nelly's
10 mar baltico, Torrevieja
0034965704243
ed_horgan@hotmail.com
There's apparently an Irish bar in Murcia called 'The Shandon Bells'. Google will probably turn up a few other candidates.
You might be able to register for Celtic Live! using your holiday address, and watch the game from an Internet cafe. Bit of a long shot that one. You should be able to pick up the Radio Scotland net broadcast online though. Good luck!
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I know we are only guessing but surely if we are holding back the interim results it is because there will be something positive to come out of it.
I don't see the point in winning an Old Firm derby and then announcing negative news to the masses.
If anything it would be held back as a positive news story should the worst happen on Sunday.
The board seem to be learning how to use the media to their advantage,the Hartson contract being a case in point before the Scottish Cup game in January.
I think/hope it will be positive news,whatever "it" may be.
BankieBhoy
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NeilR
Muchos gracias - iré a Torrevieja mañana. Te debo una cerveza porque creo Corky's mostrarå el partido. Estoy descendiendo la montaña ahorra.
C'mon the Hoops!
Many thanks - I will go to Torrevieja tomorrow. I owe you a beer as I think Corky's will show the match. I'm coming down the mountain now.
Viva los Aros!
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NeilR
Muchos gracias - iré a Torrevieja mañana. Te debo una cerveza porque creo Corky's mostrarå el partido. Estoy descendiendo la montaña ahorra.
C'mon the Hoops!
Many thanks - I will go to Torrevieja tomorrow. I owe you a beer as I think Corky's will show the match. I'm coming down the mountain now.
Viva los Aros!
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NeilR
Muchos gracias - iré a Torrevieja mañana. Te debo una cerveza porque creo Corky's mostrarå el partido. Estoy descendiendo la montaña ahorra.
C'mon the Hoops!
Many thanks - I will go to Torrevieja tomorrow. I owe you a beer as I think Corky's will show the match. I'm coming down the mountain now.
Viva los Aros!
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My comrades - Sunday awaits and the season depends on the result.
Neil/Paul - huge respect to you both, we might disagree about motives and the future but may we triumph regardless.
"celtic, celtic...thats the team for me"
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An off topic request for McGraininSpain, I'm looking to buy a house in that area this year. I'd be grateful if you'd drop me a line so that I can get some insider knowledge. liam.hegarty1@btinternet.com
Thanks in advance.
For tomorrow I'm going with 3-1. Hartson to get 2 and Bellamy the other.
Paul/NeilR/Neg Anon keep up the lively, yet polite, and stimulating debates. I go along with the share issue announcement theory. Paul's projections have all been around the break-even mark. It seems a bit hard to believe the club would delay publishing the results even if it is a small operating loss. Ceratin board arrivals recently also point to a forthcoming share issue.
Paul, do you have any thoughts on the scale of this issue? do you think it will match the scale of the hugely popular ;-) cash-strapped Rankers issue or more likely to be the same size as our last (£22.5M?) one? Also, where do people think the money will be spent? Team strengthening, academy, debt reduction or a mixture of the three?
C'mon the hoops!
Liam H
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I’ll echo that Negative Anon, it is clear we are all pushing the same way, would not have you any other way. Enjoy it tomorrow.
I am getting unbearably confident now. Did you all see Tommy Gemmell on the news last night? “I think it will be one each. One for Harton, one for Bellamy, one for Sutton and one for Petrov.” Brilliant stuff.
My oldest boy Ryan is three tomorrow, so we have moved his birthday to today, I’m sure he will understand when he is old enough.
Liam, no idea what size the share issue will be. I suspect that £50m will be far too much for now. We need money to build the training facility, spend on the team and perhaps grease the palms of some of the principled football people who stand in our way to England.
There is no point in raising money to reduce the debt, this won’t happen.
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Hi paul.
Since when were you and the e-tims rumour mill best buds?
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Good Evening All
I am confidently predicting a 3-0 win tomorrow which will take us claear and reduce the goal difference.
No matter what tactics the Huns employ we will win convincingly.Not so much glass half full as glass over-flowing.Can't see how we will lose.
BankieBhoy
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BankieBhoy, it’s about time we buried them under a few goals, not done it for over a year. This is a time for Martin to earn his money, if only we could play them every week.
Anon, I share a common interest with eTims. Refreshing to see someone give a name check when they pick-up a story, such gentlemen. Not for the first time on the rumour mill I had a good laugh at the “mental” comment. Mrs67 gave me a spoon to eat my fish supper with on Friday night. Last time I do a psychometric test I’m telling you.
It remains to be seen whether my ‘share-issue’ theory is right, but I can tell you that their ‘debt increased’ theory is wrong. Celtic are late because Celtic are pregnant with a plan.
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This is the team I think will play...
Douglas
McNamara Balde Varga Laursen
Petrov Sutton Lennon Thompson
Bellamy Hartson
This is the team I'd play...
Marshall
Henchoz Varga Laursen
McGeady Petrov Lennon Thompson
Sutton
Bellamy Hartson
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Well its the day of the game. Good luck to all who are lucky enough to be attending, and good luck to the rest of us who will be huddling around PCs listening to BBC Scotland/watching BBC text live/desperately seeking news on 10 different Celtic discussion boards.
Hail Hail!
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I’ll give them a shout for you Sprite.
Team I think will play:
Douglas
Henchoz Balde Varga McNamara
Petrov Sutton Lennon Thompson
Hartson Bellamy
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That's a confident prediction for the reason behind the late accounts Paul, lets hope your right.
Massive game today and both sets of fans seem to be very confident. I would be happy with any sort of win for Celtic and back on top of the league with a game to spare.
Let's hope Bellamy and Henchoz show their class.
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Well for anyone who wasn't at the game, that was simply the worst I've saw Celtic for a while. We just didn't perform, Sutton isn't a midfielder and Douglas should have played his last game.
Sometime you've gotta take getting beat, it happens at times, aslong as we put up an effort but we weren't at the game at all, no midfield at all, simply a very very poor performance.
Lets stop talking about the EPL, the finances, and lets look at Celtic now, we were very poor today, we're grinding out results, but today we couldn't even trouble them, we didn't even look dangerous. Maybe just a bad day at the office but it was a bad one !
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Greetings, Paul67 et al.
Todays result is very, very disheartening. I am afraid though, that it does prove an important point that I have previously noted, albeit, several weeks ago, in one of my more sober communiques.
In that particular effort, I suggested that a player should be judged not only in footballing skills,but also in,what I term,his "Phlegmatic Quotient"
Succinctly put, HIS THREE C's.
The endowment to remain " COOL CALM and COLLECTED" at important and salient opportunities, whether in the capacity of taking his goalscoring chance or preventing a crucial scoring opportunity by an opposing player.
I know that players are only human, however I am scathing in my distain, that how on earth a so called professional soccer player should be allowed to miss chance after chance in the goal-scoring dept. and commit serious and unimaginable mental errors and not be summarily dropped from the team.
I am just off
the phone with one of my THREE TRAINERS, after a rather heated summary of the abominable display of soccer that I had witnessed by the Celtic team.
I shall not go into what was discussed, but you can be assured that Douglas has played his last game for Celtic. ("And I say Amen to that!" from you know who!)
My relative, is in full agreement, regarding the essential 3 C's.
He added that my observation, that Henchoz does seem to hint that he has the aforesaid requirement,is in his opinion, a correct one.
But he is afraid that the present Celtic team is riddled by unqualified participants.
He went on to say that of course, Martin is in full agreement , regarding the cardinal requirement of the 3 C's.
Martin knows full well that a player
displaying these qualities is in the Rara Avis category, but as he says, these are inborn attributes and cannot be acquired,but he contends that he will gradually re-shape the Celtic squad with these outstanding characteristics uppermost in his team selection.
I will not go into the names of any of the most blatant candidates to be filleted, but suffice to say, that from now on, the criteria for team selection shall be :
One glaringly missed scoring opportunity ,shall be frowned upon and oral castigation shall be the punishment meted out.However, Two glaringly missed scoring opportunities shall be looked upon as inexcuseable and dismissal from the first team roster shall be the punishment.
My cousin went on to say that the incorporation of the 3 C attributes are now are now a number one requirement when scouting a young player.
Several of the present Celtic Youth players, to the delight of Martin, d are displaying the qualities of this particular Rara Avis.
A very crestfallen and saddened
Fargo.
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This is not the time for a knee-jerk reaction, although I must confess to feeling a slight twitch in that department, but if we are being honest with ourselves, then today's performance and result has been on the cards all season.Put simply, there are no legs in the team,especially with Didi absent.This is compounded by the fact that most of our key players are on the wrong side of thirty and simply do not have the stamina to last ninety minutes against any side of reasonable quality. This is borne out by the failure to kill off teams in the SPL and our late capitulation in the CL.In the second half today, the opposition simply raised the pace and we were found wanting and our finishing made a competant keeper look world class.
I don't mean this to be a condemnation of the players, rather a realisation of where the team is at. In my opinion, the team is at the end of it's era and an overhaul of the midfield in particular is required. I still think we have a good defence but they are entitled to expect the ball to stay up the park for a reasonable part of the game.
Having said that, I have faith in the manager, because he knows better than anyone what his team needs.
I believe his policy in re-signing his experienced players was to provide a base for introducing fresh blood into the team, as each of them are still good players individually, but we cannot afford to play all of them together for much longer, if at all. I would like to see a situation where they can interchange with some of the younger players coming through and fill the role that Lambert has had for the last two seasons. I don't think for one minute that MON will let sentiment interfere with his pragmatism and I'm sure that he knows that this team has simply run out of steam.There are some useful players in the reserves including a boy call Mc.Partland who can see a pass and cross a good ball from the wing.
Perhaps Paul, there will be some major player investment in the close season, even if it is to bridge the gap between the present squad and the young players at the club, if they are deemed not to be ready. In the meantime, for God's sake, give Juninho his chance and see what he can bring out of Bellamy,as BBJ needs a rest.
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Bellshill Tim, I think on reflection you might regret one or statements you made today.
Whilst I share your disappointment, particularly in the manner of our second half performance, it has to be said that Rangers did not have a shot on target until Prso’s effort around the hour mark. In actual fact, Celtic created & spurned at least four chances, (Bellamy & Hartson two apiece) prior to surrendering the lead, a lead given up in the lamest way imaginable. You know that horrible feeling of de ja vu? Well we all witnessed it again in the shape of RD throwing one in to allow Rangers the lead at Celtic Park. For such an incident to happen once is a accident, for it to be allowed to happen again is negligent. MON take note. What is it with Celtic & goalkeepers, whilst the reverse is true for today’s opponents, whose deputy brought in from the heady heights of Man City reserves excelled.
The norm in OF games is who wants it the most will prevail. This is what separated the teams today. I can’t help but feel that we have too many players who have been there & done it & lost the edge required to win a tightly contested OF game.
How else can you explain the amount of ball we gave up in the middle of the park? A combination of failing to make 20 – 30 yard passes & more tellingly being second best in the tackle was our undoing today.
Of course RD will get the headlines, but lets not hide behind that.
Yes we were poor second half especially. The gauntlet has been laid down. Lets not doubt the team’s resolve. We will prevail.
As an aside & on a very negative note, I feel the need to comment on the droves of Celtic supporters who got off there seats to exit the stadium almost before Novo’s lob hit the back of the net. The first line of “We are Celtic supporters, faithful through & through” was barely over my lips as they sloped down the stairs. It made me feel sick to the stomach!!!!!! Supporters eh? A contradiction in terms, if ever I saw one.
It’s game on Bhoys, as Bellshill Tim says we all need to get our eye back on the ball. This championship will not be won while our minds are wandering elsewhere.
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I wonder if the blinkers will now begin to drop off all those who believed that everything’s ok as long as we're winning. Today surely showed up clearly our lack of invention. Also pause for thought for the Agathe knockers. Without him we had no width everything was played narrow and Hartson and Sutton were muscled out by Andrews and Kyrgiakos leaving Bellamy a forlorn figure. Plan A did not work and unless we can quickly develop a plan B with the existing players then I reckon we’re not going to be happy Tims come the season’s end . As you say Bellshill Tim it was a bad day and if you really do have an "in" Fargo I hope you can use it to good effect to alter our very predictable play.
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what we witnessed for 90% of the game was a huge, MASSIVE lack of commitment, especially midfield. I mean, every time a loose ball went up in the air around the center of the park, you couldn't call it a 50-50 ball; it was rangers' ball.every time. Lennon's (forward) passing was weak, it barely reached the intended recipient. At least there were points of redemption for him. Sutton needs to stop thinking that just by being on the pitch is doing enough, and petrov will never play on the wing. It's a sad day when the huns show more hunger than us during an old firm game, yet i feel this has started creeping into our game after last summer. Hopefully Bellamy has the opposite effect of juninho( great OF debut, then dissapearing).
Anyway, it was just really dissapointing
M_CELT
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Well I never thought I'd see such an inept second half performance from Celtic as today. How can we look comfortable and creating several good chances and then suddenly drop totally off the pace lose all sense of shape and show a complete lack of urgency. Very frustrating to say the least.I'm afraid time is up for Rab, he looked a haunted man by the end. Several of our bigger players again disappeared when needed most and the change of formation to pairing Big J and Sutton merely pushed Bellamy out the game.
I cant finish without mentioning the incident with Ricksen no matter how unpopular he is the good name of Celtic has just been dragged down by several arseholes and just watch this situation being played out by the media to our cost.
Hail Hail
Alan
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morethanjustaclub
I agree wholeheartedly with you.In the second half I think we barely won a tackle of any note in midfield.
Petrov kept drifting into the middle of the park giving us no width on the right hand side and Thompson barely got beyond the halfway line the whole game.
However,my two biggest gripes are the goalkeeper and the striking positions.
To witness Douglas costing us goals in an Old Firm game yet again beggars belief.He is clearly not a big game player,I think the UEFA Cup Final taught us that although his replacement Hedman has faired little better.
Possibly time to bring Marshall back,but only because I don't trust Hedman in the big games either.
The striker positions remain the one area where MON's judgment continues to be questionable.
In my opinion,Hartson is a back up striker.To continually play your best centre forward in central midfield seems to me to be an attempt to keep the respective players happy,but to the detriment of the team performance.Incidentally,although Sutton says he is happy to play anywhere,his performances in midfield suggest otherwise.
I don't think Juninho has covered himself in glory since his arrival,but when we went 1-0 down we were looking for something a little different to prise open the Rangers defence and he would have been my choice.But in all honesty,how many of us expected to see him get his chance.
I think Hartson has been guilty not just today,but the whole season of missing gilt-edged chances for us that would have turned tight games into comfortable wins for us.At least Fargo is suggesting that maybe he has done this once too often for MON's liking.
It's hard to take positives from todays result,but watching MON after the game,he looked disappointed to have lost but had a look about him that suggested he was determined to put it right.
Lets just pray that he does.
BankieBhoy
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Fargo, you make some excellent points about the three Cs and Character in general. It's interesting that recently some of the other Celtic minded sites noted O'Neill's interest in American Football, although I don't recall anyone delving into the "character" of winning teams.
I have an interest in North American sports and Character (especially in Ice Hockey and American Football) is something that many observers like to talk about. Take Tom Brady (QB for New England), he's the player you can most identify with winning in that sport. And when they describe him it's not about his skill level. It's all about his character. It's about being "cool under pressure".
As Fargo eluded too, clearly the lack of discipline exhibited by much of the current core of the current Celtic squad doesn't lend itself to the three C's mentatlity. On reflection, it is not only the headline grabbing moments when players have lashed out in the heat of the moment, it's in the dying minutes of a critical European game where the team have failed to keep the head. But, you have to give the team credit for their never say die attitude and how far it's taken them thus far. I think this is more an arguement for the big occasions like today and our European adventures where the skill levels are that much closer.
Anyway, Douglas today obviously let himself and the team down. From where I'm standing MON has a puzzle on his hands here; Big Rab has obviously made a rather major error and I don't think Rangers win that game without it. Does Marshy come back in? What about Hedman? Marshy isn't quite the finished article and well Hedman has his erratic moments aswell. I don't think we were outplayed today. I thought Bellamy fitted in quite well. It was refreshing to have so much movement up front. I do wonder if we'll be able to accomodate everyone in the team (I'm sure Sutton would have retreated to midfield for TWF too).
Clarkey
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First half we were very good.
All was comfortable until mr Douglas decided to play his normal party piece.
He has been forgiven too often - he cannot be allowed to play for us again.
If I didn't know any better I'd think it was deliberate.
I await the summer with mounting desperation..........
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falirkbhoy here
What a horrible feeling, the match was awful, but what about the thousands leaving.
While you guys have been worrying over the EPL in 10 years time.... some of us have been asking questions over team selection and style.
To play one player, we change 6 positions, to make sure the usual big time players get a game. Why not drop Hartson or Sutton and just leave the midfield alone. To me its very simple, Thomson Lennon Petrov and Aiden in the midfield everyone looked lost.
If anyone watches the game again, Can you watch out for a bye kick in the first half, every midfield and attacking Celtic player was in the centre circle. Every time Thompson tried to come out to the wing, MON told him to get inside. WHY?
While most at CQN have sat back and said at least we are winning (derbyshirebhoy the only other voice in the wilderness)TFOD have scored many more goals playing attacking football, where will we be come May.
This is no knee-jerk reaction; the writing has been on the wall.
Replace Bellamy's name with camara, no wonder he wanted away, MON doesn't know how to play fast attacking football.
I know there were mistakes and missed chances, but if we had won it would be papering over the cracks.
Are MON's current tactics the way forward for Glasgow Celtic football club.
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A poor poor display indeed. lacklustre in every department. Ive rarely seen a MON Celtic team look so unmotivated, and more worringly look more uncapable of getting back into a game as today. As soon as the first unfortunately cheap goal went in we collapsed. The crowd was bizzarely quiet today and so was the team, going 1-0 down, which on any other day wouldve sparked both into action, sparked a response from neither.
We have been poor and marvelously boring almost all season, yet we have managed to scrape through. Today we came unstuck, maybe if BBJ had scored one then we wouldve won 1-0. But it would only be papering the cracks which first appeared when Sutty and Larsson stopped being our forward line of choice.
Unfortunately BBJ had one of those days, on another day he wouldve scored 2 or 3, it happens.
We have discussed -and agreed- many times on this site MON's unswerving support for his 'big' players, but for my money its time he started making the 'big' decisions.
Thomo was dreadful once again (apart from his chopping of Ricksen) yet will never get subbed or dropped.
The game passed Petrov by and he continues to be on the fringe of things at right mid.
This left Sutty and Lenny to fight a younger and far more energtic opposition midfield.
We have a decent squad now but we seem totally unwilling to use it (barring injury). Juninho has every right to be completely p1ssed off.
Only Bobo and Jackie led by example today. There were sequences today of long ball/header/header/clearance /long ball/header/ header/header/clearance/header/ long ball/header/clearance/header that lasted longer than that sentence !
playing hit-and-hope/cr@p football and winning is one thing playing hopefull/cagey/football and losing is just unacceptable.
Hail Hail
JR.
I still think we'll win the league though.
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It's quite difficult to add anything constuctive to what's already been written, so I'm probably just writing this out of frustration. Anyway, without doubt the goalie sold the jersey. About this we can have no doubt. However, the bigger issue is why this seems to be a recurring theme at Celtic. What happens now? Replace him Marshall? Hedman? It's a game of musical chairs until someone f***s up. As much as I am an admirer of MON and sincerely hope he is our manager for a long time to come he must bare a good deal of responsibilty for our goalkeeping woes. It's an issue that has festered for years and not been addressed. Surely now? It's also now a time for tough managerial decisions. Chris Sutton is an outstanding football player and in my opinion an unsung hero, both literally and metophoracally (there's only one Chris Sutton. Is that the best we can do??). He is a superb cenre forward and centre back. Now we expect him to be a superb central midfielder. Give the guy a break. If we want to play a normal 4-4-2 and play Bellamy at the same time then make a decision between Chris and BBJ. If we want all three to play then lets go with an all out 3-4-3. Stop with the half way house. It's now time for MON to earn his corn. Tough decisions now need to be made and it's up to him to him to make them. End of rant. Fortunately I'm listening to music in order to temper my annoyance. Morrisey - Everyday's Like Sunday. Quite apt really.
All the best.
GM
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Bobby Ewing
You are completely right about his choice of players.This is what I was alluding to on my previous post.
MON has a weell documented history of standing by the players who have performed for him over the years.I think over the next three months we will see just how good a manager he is.
He has two choices.He either continues to play his favoured players,in some cases out of position,in the hope that they come good and win the league or he shows he has the ruthless streak required to drop them and show he is unhappy with the level of performance he is getting.
There is no need for radical changes but he needs to let two or three know that their current form is unacceptable.Good god,we might even find competition for places in the first eleven!!
BankieBhoy
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Falkirkbhoy
listening to five live. Hooligans at football games. We're on it. Not really good press for the EPL move!
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GM
Excellent choice of music.Always good to know that there is someone out there in the wider world feeling more miserable than we are at the moment.
Good old Morrissey!!
BankieBhoy
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It would be very easy to shift all the blame onto Douglas. He made a huge mistake but that was 70 minutes into a game that, in theory at least, Celtic should have won already. Hartson and Bellamy contrived to miss four good chances but worse than that was that Rangers wanted to win the game more than us (and how it hurts to say that). Our midfield is too static and there was no width in the team until McGeady came on, Simply punting high balls in the direction of Hartson is no way to play football. Dare I even suggest that McLeish won the tactical battle with MON? Or am I just too depressed?
PS. Great site Paul (and the rest). I'm exiled in Holland and this is my main source of Celtic news. Please keep up the good work.
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Depression's all relative PaisleyBhoy. Put on some Morrisey, you'll feel a lot better.
All the best.
GM
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After reading this site for many weeks I feel driven to comment following the deep disappointment of today.
I agree with most of what has been said about the match and so hope the sentiments, expressed by ‘Fargo’, are carried out by Celtic and MON, over the next few months, to give the tweaks to this team that are required to give it the right blend of ability, youth, experience, flair, confidence and steely determination to win by as large a margin as possible.
For weeks/months now we have watched Celtic play with real confidence but no cutting edge and today, in the first half was no different. I strongly believe that the half time talk involved the words ‘ keep at it the goal will come’ and I must admit that I genuinely thought we would win right up until the gifted goal. Then there was no way back as TFOD just kept going for the second goal. If Celtic had scored first we would have won 1-0, not because we did not want to score again but because we would have continued to play controlled football and probably missed the chances presented to us. Since MON arrived at the club and got in the core of his choice players this is the way we have played almost every game, our old No 7 just did not miss too many chances. Ask yourself how many of BBJ and CB’s opportunities he would have slotted past the keeper – I think probably three and he would have created more for himself and Sutton. Come to think of it Sutton would have scored at least one of BBJ’s chances today. Also, we all know that if Agathe had been fit today he would have played, giving us an excellent defensive option with pace and width in attack – but who would have been left out? The only sensible option for me would have been BBJ, putting Sutton up front (his best position) with CB.
All is not lost, I have great faith that MON will get things right, we will continue to beat all others and the title will be wrapped up when we beat the TFOD later this season.
On the other issue of delayed reports – would this have anything to do with the nine days afforded to Glazer to read the Mancs books before confirming his bid, or have you, Paul67 moved away from your thoughts that Glazer’s actions may have an influence on the next step for Celtic?
Hail Hail
Beechbhoy
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Despite our obvious disappointment at todays result,I think the one thing we can't afford to lose sight of is that it is still in our own hands.
MON should be instilling in the players that the intensity of our play has to step up a couple of gears from now till the end of the season.We have looked a bit one-paced and that needs to change.
The one thing that has started to worry me after todays game is the goal difference.Thirteen now worse off than Rangers.None of us wants a repeat of 2003 so pegging that back at a rate of at least one goal a game would seem to be a priority,not just winning the games.
Lastly,the CP crowd needs to get behind the team and push them on.The atmosphere today was as flat as I can remember and does nothing to help the players raise their game when they need to.We need to get back to scaring the crap out of opposition players before a ball is kicked.
If we didn't take the challenge from Rangers seriously before,which I have to admit I didn't,then we have to now.
BankieBhoy
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Agree with almost everything that has been said, glad to see the reaction has been measured and constructive.
“Beech”bhoy, I expect Glazer to buy Manchester United. Now he has access to the books he will be able to demonstrate his plans to his funders. This will trigger the purchase.
Fargo, you have returned to focus today with sharp clarity. I am pleased to hear that there has been a private trauma underneath the stands today. It would be unlike Martin to drop a top player, long over due.
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Deeply, deeply, disappointed.
On the day, far too many of our big time players simply didn't perform and it saddens me to say that Rangers looked that they wanted it more than us.
That should never be the case.
Never.
We looked tired and at times lethargic during today's game and the hunger and never say die ethos that has served us so well was absent, almost to a man.
I have no idea where we go now on our goalkeeping problems.
Hedman seems to be the type of guy who will be quite prepared to sit out the rest of his lucrative contract before moving on to "sting" some other club.
David Marshall will maybe be one for the future but at this particular moment in time I dont think he's ready although MON might be forced into giving him another crack at it.
I understand MON's predicament as regards our goalkeeping position but I really hope that Fargo is correct this time and that we never have to witness Robert Douglas in goal again.
I like to think that I'm a fair minded guy and I always apply the rule that everybody deserves a second chance but I have to think that surely now Big Rab will be consigned to the dustbin.
He has cost us dearly for the last time, hopefully.
Did anyone notice that Prso was fed the same ball, time and time again, standing deep on the right hand side of our box?
Hope that the moron who assaulted Ricksen is dealt with severely, because believe you me the tabloids will have a field day with this.
I'm off to have a night nurse with a brandy in it and I hope to wake about wednesday.
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