 Tuesday, March 22, 2005
Meltdown in Germany provides signing opportunities for Celtic
Team planning for next season is well underway at Celtic Park with a number of decisions having been made since the turn of the year.
Hartson and Balde have both accepted new contracts consistent with the deals they are currently on; however, it is interesting that the negotiations with Neil Lennon are dragging on.
I know that Celtic are keen to reduce the payroll in any areas possible, and suspect that the offer on the table for Lennon reflects this. The problem Neil has is that we all know that no-one else will come in and offer him the kind of money he is currently earning at Celtic Park.
Having come through a few negotiations where he has had to compete with other clubs for a player, Peter Lawwell will know that the contract he should convince Neil Lennon to sign must reflect market forces, not loyalty or even intrinsic value to the team.
In these times where we are all looking for our money to be spent wisely, we should expect nothing less. This may mean Neil has to settle for around half of what he currently earns.
So where should our money be spent?
There are a couple of universal truths; Craig Bellamy has transformed Celtic into a potent force and will be offered a contract commensurate with his talent. The fee to sign him from Newcastle will be £5.5million on top of the £0.5million loan deal.
In only one of Martin O’Neill’s five seasons at Celtic has one goalkeeper remained first choice throughout the season. This season, and last, three players held the position at different times. We need a goalkeeper who will make the shirt his own.
Beyond these two positions the picture is less clear.
If you look back at comments posted here in August and September you will see a unanimous concern that we tend to shop in the inflated English market or the impoverished Scottish market. Where we buy from is another key question.
Ideally we should look to buy from one of the major leagues, where the risks inherent in bringing any player into the club can be judged against a backdrop of top competition.
Of the four leagues in Europe who have dominated Champions League finals, one is in financial meltdown right now, the Bundesliga.
Bayern Munich have offered their out of contract players reduced salaries. Borussia Dortmund may yet go out of business this year. Schalke 04 play in front of 60,000 people every home game, but they are €200million (£140million) in debt – and these are the top clubs!
German football offers Celtic the perfect mix of top players, playing in a top league, with clubs who are looking to sell.
Timo Hildebrandt, goalkeeper of VfB Stuttgart, at 26 years-old is the future of German goalkeeping. He has Champions League (and Celtic Park) experience and has seen his team peak under previous manager Felix Magath. Celtic would get him for around £3million.
Should we be looking beyond Neil Lennon, Bayern Munich’s experienced defensive midfielder Jens Jeremies will be available in the summer for free. He is 30-years-old and no longer a first choice at Bayern.
I suspect that Jeremies next contract will cost less than what we have just offered Bobo Balde. He would be an excellent, cost effective, addition to the squad for the next two seasons.
Borussia Dortmund's Brazilian left back Dede is one of the most accomplished defenders in Germany. With Dortmund in meltdown at the moment Martin might be considering a similar move to the one which seen Balde come to Celtic Park.
Dede (27) is as good a left back as we could hope to attract. He would command the kind of salary reserved for our top earners at the moment. Depending on how the season finished for Dortmund, he may cost around £2million.
Another player we have seen at Celtic Park, Alexander Hleb of Stuttgart, is due a big contract offer. The 24-year-old midfield playmaker has been an emerging star in the German game for three years now. Stuttgart do not want to lose him; however, an offer of £4million will secure his signature.
Signing players for £14.5million on four year contracts will cost the Profit and Loss account £3.6million a year, a charge which I will demonstrate soon that we can certainly afford.
Finding wages for four new players will also be a challenge to our board, however, Lambert, Valgaeren and Juninho, all big earners, will go, along with several others. There is also the Nike deal, which will bring in at least £3million per season extra.
Add these five to the players already under contract for next season, and a case could be made that we would have the strongest squad in recent years.
Time to put all the lessons of last summer to work Celtic.
Thanks to KD in Germany for some reseach.
On another point; Manchester United released their interim results this morning. I expect Glazer to move within days and Celtic to announce their figures and plans within the same timescale.
154 Comments:
-
Our priority is to sign bellamy at the moment. Think every penny should be saved until we can make him the best possible offer then start looking at new contracts and other players.
The 5 year plan you spoke about some months back doesn,t look like a runner this season.
Get the wallets out FFS
-
I thought the Nike deal was worth minimum 5 million a season Paul.
Do we know if the club are looking at Germany or is it just a suggestion by yourself and KD?
Tony, Latvia
-
Hope springs eternal Paul.....
I only hope it is true - I was particularly impressed by Hleb when I have seen him play in a few games!!
The whole debate about money being available in the Spring will really be a 'proof of the pudding' thing...there is absolutely no chance of Celtic confirming any money available as it would hike the proces of local (UK) talent through the roof.
Still, it's nice to think it will happen...especially since you have been talking about it on here for the last 8 months or so - it's like watching a kettle boil :-)
Seggy
(Must get me blogger sorted!)
-
agree totally regarding german players. Also would like to see us go for rosicky as spurs are sniffing around him.
-
Nice research Paul. Sounds great! I am sure I share the same view as most, and that is I hope your right about the money available. The only hint that you may be right is the fact that the club are prepared to spend on wages, just look at Juninho, Camera and Bellamy, they would be on Premiership wages.
Tony, the £3 Million is over and above the cuurent Umbro deal. So to the club its an extra £3 million (approx.).
Cheers
Scott
-
Nice research Paul. Sounds great! I am sure I share the same view as most, and that is I hope your right about the money available. The only hint that you may be right is the fact that the club are prepared to spend on wages, just look at Juninho, Camera and Bellamy, they would be on Premiership wages.
Tony, the £3 Million is over and above the cuurent Umbro deal. So to the club its an extra £3 million (approx.).
Cheers
Scott
-
The club were defintely involved in some kind of offer to the nuremberg duo , vittek and mintal , whether this is part of a wider german policy or because of the slovak connection i dont know,
-
I am quite surprised that these players are being mentioned because from my way of thinking these players (or most of them) seem like players we would never be able to attract Hleb is germany's most promising player since ballack, Rosicky just dont get me started on that one i mean come on ffs get real....
Ok the german game is in crisis and yes we may pick up some cheap players from there but stop giving false promises these players will be offered contracts from bigger clubs with better wages, Remember Basturk it was the same thing with that...
-
When was that Xavier?
Beaker, i see your point but have to say that these are exectly the type of players MON would go for, he is not ashamed to try and get good players, whether or not they come is a different matter, but he has been ambitious in his attempts...
Basturk being one of them, Kleberson, Juninho, Bellamy and i am sure there are more that i can't remember at the moment.Tony, Latvia
-
Sorry for the poor translation but you should get the gist.When I read of the Arsenal interest last week the figure quoted was £10 million
"Football: Arsenal London wants to obligate Stuttgart Alexander Hleb
The English Erstligist arsenal London is interested in the obligation of the native of stuttgart Alexander Hleb.
However both of Stuttgart disclaim coaches Matthias Sammer and Hlebs player advisor Niki Spilewski that an official offer for the Russian would be present."
Jens Jeremies played against Arsenal a few weeks ago. He may be out of contract but is still an integral part of the Bayern team.
Dede out of contract next year but attracting interest from elsewhere.
Explain this comment
"Martin might be considering a similar move to the one which seen Balde come to Celtic Park"
"Real Betis chief Vlada Stosic has been in Germany on a scouting mission. Stosic took in Nurnberg's clash with Borussia Dortmund to run his eye over BVB's Brazilian wing-back Dede. Dede was offered to Betis before Christmas by agents and coach Lorenz Serra Ferrer has discussed a potential summer deal with Stosic for the left-sided wing-back.!"
-
douglas
hedman
valgaren
varga
fernandez
sylla
junhinho
hartson or sutton
thompson
lambert
These are the players you would have to remove from the wage bill in order to facilitate the wages of the new players coming in.
Three will go anyway lambert, junhino and joos releasing somewhere in the region of 65-70 k per week annualy in the region of 3.5 mill.
Bringing in a top goalkeeper should mean the end of both douglas and hedmans time at celtic park step up Marshall as permenant goalkeeper on the bench. This would release somewhere in the region of 30-35k per week annually in the region of 1.5 - 1.7 mill
fernandez and sylla are bit part players at best and should be released. I believe sylla is out of contract soon and fernandez has one season left do a deal out him.
This would release somewhere in the region of 20-25 k per week annualy 1mill - 1.3 mill.
This leaves varga thompson and hartson or sutton.
Jim craigs view that sutton as a player is coming to pensionable age should be a factor. He is spending more and more time on the treatment table as jim put it at his age the little tweaks and pangs take longer and longer to heal. Big stan has been good for celtic but he is looking more and more in my view slower. I would prefer Henchov in that position.
Thompson great left foot seems to me not to be the same player maybe he has taken enough knocks in his time who knows?.
the latter 3 and if you did include lennon why bring in a german internationalist at 30 to sit on the bench?
this would save in the region of 75k - 85 k per week annualy 3.5 - 4 million
A total save in the region of 10 million off the wage bill. enough t pay 4-5 top quality players.
could we really lose all these players would we want to?.
-
This all sounds just a bit too optimistic for my liking. I do believe (I think) that MON will have more money to spend this summer than the previous 3, but I don't see us competing for the signatures of guys like hleb, hildebrand and rosicky. These guys will move on to spain or england.
I agree Bellamy must be the priority but even the noises he was making after saturdays game don't fill me with too much hope, "I'm here to raise my profile, the next contract I sign is the most important of my career". And I wouldn't be surprised to see Man U (swap deal for smith), Arsenal (reyes and bergkamp away) or Liverpool (can't get a settled strike force) getting involved in the summer.
I think I remember dede, did he play in portugal? If he is the same player then he is an excellent attacking left back.
Can we please also get a centre midfielder who can control play AND make decent forward passes / runs. Lennon has done a good job but his limitations are clear to all.
And one last thing. Could MON go down to old trafford, spank Liam Miller for being naughty and bring him back? I for one would give him another chance, he was just being young and opportunistic
-
First, anon 11.09, I think we could bring in thatmany but we would have to be able to offload the people they are replacing at more or less the same time. the last thing you want is to bring in an extra 9 players in june and have to pay 200+k a week to maybe get a US tour out of them. Then again would we get extra money from these friendlies if they were there.
Second, I for one don't think we can do a Chelski and have 22 Europe capable players in the squad. They can say if you are not playing Barca on the Wed you'll play Man U on the Sat (away to ICT just doesnt fill the same void). And MON is not known for his player rotations.
Third, and Paul will love this. A while ago you said the Celt's wage bill was 40 mill yet Man U's is 43 mill am I missing something??
-
Paul, i think what youa re saying is right. This is a market we should be looking at. But many problems still persist namely the attractiveness of the Scottish league. I know that Arsenal are keen on Hleb and that most clubs down south would move for Hildebrand if he became available. We should remain positive - look at Klos, he was happy to come here. We firstly need to secure entry into the champions league before these players would consider a move. I think that the big problem in the past has been Celtic's ability to sell the club to players. Big players want to move to a club with ambition - a charachteristic not commonly associated with Celtic. It is my belief that if we can secure Bellamy A.S.A.P then that sends a signal that we mean business. Other players will want to be a part of one of the biggest clubs in the world trying to get back to where it belongs - amoungst Europes's elite!
Mel - Liam Miller seems to believe he as a future at Old Trafford. I seen a recent interview where he said he is happy playing cup games and is confident he can work his way into the team. Personally i think he is incredibly stupid. I once heard MON sayin he wanted to build his team around him - who walks away from that!!!! In saying that, he would be a perfect addition to the squad, if only he would just swallow his pride hold up his hand and say, i made a mistake will you take me back.
Paul - have you heard anything about a move for Riordan. I am confident he will sign at the end of the season and be a great aquisition. A move now before he becomes a Scotland regular would be wise.
-
Tony this was last year when nuremburg were lighting up div 2 in the bundesliga , the german press was full of it at the time but i dont recall much said in the UK. i seem to recall the problem was that one of them had just signed a four year deal and there wasnt funds to buy him out of it, its a pity as they are both doing well in bundesliga 1 now....
-
I see where your coming from here Paul, although I agree that we may not be able to attract some of the bigger names being mentioned.
I like MON's attitude when it comes to this kind of situation, he shoots high then works his way down the list. The simple way to find out if a player is interested is to pick up the phone and ask! It costs nothing.
I believe that we will keep Bellamy if we win the league, I think the lure of champions league football would be a fantastic carrot for him and a fitting stage. I would happily pay the lad every penny that Juninho is on. He has a hunger and ability that is exceptional, a real fans player.
-
Paul,
Something that I have spoken about since Martin O'Neill took over 5 years ago is the scouting system at the club.
Whilst in Tom O'Neill we seem to have a very good scout in identifying danger and weaknesses in the opposition, and in the youths we have a group of people who pick up some the best young talents in EUROPE. The overseas scouts seem to be in a coma.
We have read many reports about Lubo and Dr Jo being scouts in Eastern Europe and indeed two of the posters pointed out about the 2 Nuremburg lads. (Did we offer them a trial :)
However nothing seems to come of these players that are identified. Several players that have been linked to the club have played against us in European competition. Guys like Hleb, Yakin and Wilhelmsson.
Do you think that it may be that MON does not trust his overseas scouts after the Sheidht affair or does he want players that already fluent in English, hence his signing from Scotland and England?
I look forward to the day when the club can do what Ajax have done for the past 15 years in that when a player leaves the club, gets injured or retires then you have a ready made replacement on the club conveyor belt.
Wullie Gordon
-
Anonymous (11:09AM), your quoted figures are all well and good, but the stated total of circa £10M has to pay both the transfer fees AND the wages for any new acquisitions.
Bellamy's transfer fee is reputed to be in the region of £6M, with wages around £45K a week. So your £10M will pay for a 2 year contract for Bellamy, and nothing else!
Given that any "top quality" acquisitions would cost in the region of £30-40K per week in wages (£1.5-2.0M per annum), then Bellamy aside the £10M would probably enable the signing of 2 or 3 decent (but not necessarily top notch) players in the £2M bracket. And this only includes the first year's salary for these new players, leaving the question of how to fund their salaries beyond that.
Maybe the only way to raise enough cash to make a significant difference is to sell the naming rights to the stadium...?
However, the huge drop in MU's profits, which evidently was partly to blame on TV revenues, may be a precursor to a new TV contract for the EPL, with Celtic in the frame.
-
MartyBhoy
My words may have misread by you, more than likely I didn't word my blog in the right "tone" I was on the same lines as yourself.Just to point out though about Heinz,They have been solely a family business since 1869(so it says on the tins)That's as far as my market research goes Marty,"looking in the fridge".They never had a Director outside the family until a few years back when they invited in an Irishman onto the board,so your dreams of having a "HOOPS Stadium" may not be far off really
Beaker
Basturk was offered MORE money to go to Celtic,ambition on MON part is correct Tony(Latvia) But you can't compete with a Turkish player staying in Germany where there is a huge Turkish population and has a big Turkish following all over the country,Celtic offered more money,he said it himself on German TV.
Many dates have been put forward for the accounts.The maximum date is the 31st March they can be put out so they will be coming out within the next 9 days,no later.
Celtic will NOT say how much is available to spend in the summer(or before),Makes business sense.Look at the inflated prices Chelsea have had to pay for players recently,Man Utd in the past have paid and to a smaller extent Celtic in a smaller enviroment(but not much)ANY team that has said it's "cashed up" is always taken for a ride,just ask mr mint. 270,000,000M and still going!
I would say MON has and still does play Poker judging by the way he plays his cards very close to his chest and is very good at bluffing.Bellamy is the same, keeping the fans happy with nice compliments about wanting to stay just incase no big offer comes in for him,MON and Bellars are playing poker with each other with the comments.MON says "We have no money but can you stay Craig for X amount" Bellars says "I know you have the money,give it to me or I'll leave"How can you not believe MON with that cheeky Irish smile and look of innosense,although we all know he is lying.Quite a few talk about no EPL teams wanting him but I would say that Liverpool for one are a team who could do with his sevices,why not Everton?There is many CL contenders for next season that will be keeping an eye on him at Celtic especially if he continues to play the way he has been.
Don't forget Viduka,Cadete,
Van Hoojdonk,Di Canio.They all came here to make a name for themselves and catch a few eyes of coaches.Bellars may do the same,but judging by the passion in his eyes when playing for Celtic which has rarely been seen for a few years,my guess is that he will stay unless a very big Euro team comes in for him,then he can't say no.
The likes of Birmingham and other small teams outwith the top 4 may cause us problems regarding buying him though.Bellars will never go to these teams but nothing stops them from offering the big money (say 55-60 grand aweek)as he will go back to Celtic and say "this is how much I've been offered,can you match it".One thing for sure,he won't come cheap as suggested by some fans
Sorry to get off the subject Paul but I noticed the comments by Lubo Moravcik who is managing (temp)
MFK Ruzomberok who he is also the Chairman of in Slovakia.
Moravcik said. “If I get some sort of interest then maybe I will be a coach, maybe I could work for Celtic. Who knows? I am open to offers.”
Otherwise, happy to be back in his home town of Nitra, he will attempt the gradual route into management evinced by Martin O’Neill at Grantham Town. “I will maybe spend some time in Slovakia and improve to try to get a better job,” said Moravcik, who in any case directs his club’s football operations, rather than its financial ones. “It is not as simple as to say ‘right away I am going to be coach of Celtic’. Sometimes it happens that a player like Frank Rijkaard goes straight into managing his national team but this doesn’t always happen – the rest need to work hard, get better and better, and maybe one day be a coach at a big club like Martin O’Neill.”
Always thought the wee man would be back at CP one day.
I see Fargo now has a split personality with his multiple posts,Vito can't be talking to him in his head at the present time,either that,the medication has been changed.
Yours in Celtic
Cabbage McFlabbergaster
-
I like the idea of looking beyond the UK for new players. We have talked about that before and there are very good players playing in some not-too-fancy Euro leagues that could be had for reasonable amounts. If there are shopping opportunities in Germany, great add that to the list.
If Celtic land Bellamy on a long term deal I would expect the club to be doing the rest of their shopping at the sales, wherever they are.
-
Are we all convinced that breaking the bank to buy Bellamy is a good thing? Does one swallow make a summer? Can you have smoke without fire? I agree with everyone's praise of the guy for Saturday's hat trick. Henrik at his best would be hard pushed to equal a (domestic) performance like that. But its only one game, surely we want to judge him over a longer period of time. The good thing is that he will only stay if he wants to, if he doesn't want to stay he'll be for the off. He's an honest guy and would only hang around if he really wanted to play for us. Don’t get me wrong, I'd be delighted if he stays and becomes a success, I just think that everybody has gone way over the top on the basis of one solitary hat trick. Kevin, Blantyre.
-
Big Joe, says
Good post Paul,
The dead wood and hangers on should be shown the door, we have had to cut our losses b4, now is the time to do it again.
1. Goalkeepers.
Weed out the dead wood. We have 3 international keepers who do not command a first team place, the key word hear is command. Wee need a keeper who we cant drop, who bosses his defender and doesn’t get respect, he commands it. Two must go in the summer.
2. Defenders.
Weed out the dead wood.
Valgaren & Varga, both have been good for us, one will surly go, with the other looking not as sure as he has been in the past.
3. Midfielders.
Lambert is off, but since Thompson put pen to paper on his new deal he has been off the boil, like Hartson, we need a bob to box midfielder.
4. Strikers.
Sylla off, Fernandes has to be given a deal to get him off the wages, and I now think that if, and its a big if, we get to keep Bellamy, then we only need BBJ of Sutty.
Big Joe.
-
Kevin,
I take your point. I would say that the accolades for Bellers are more than one game's showing. He has star quality, you can see this a mile away and has gone a long way to firing up the team and bringing a new dimension to the effectiveness overall. There are times when the duck walks and talks like a duck. Bellers is star material..lets go get him now.
-
Big Joe,
How about Roy Carroll, who doesn't seem any closer to a new deal at ManUre? The club have said that they will not increase their offer, and he evidently wants to be the regular first choice keeper. Yes, I know he had that howler against ACM, but one gulp doesn't make a winter, or something. He has otherwise performed pretty consistently, and does command his area.
As for a "bob to box midfielder" though, we already have one in Thommo. In fact he wouldn't even charge a bob to throw a punch at Pricksen - he'd give that as a freebie I'm sure! 8-)
-
A good cause if ever I saw one Vote for the Celts and tell all 30,000 of
your mates to do the same!!!!!
Below is a link to a competition being run by Coca Cola. The football club
with the highest number of votes wins £250,000 to buy a new player.
It will only take a couple of minutes to fill in. Current leaders are Leeds
United with over 30,000 votes. Celtic are in 18th with a meagre 3,000, but
still ahead of the Huns. The Sheep Worriers are actually 3rd!!!!
See if you can do your bit for the club and also give yourself a chance of
winning £10,000. Apologies for sending this type of thing but if we win
maybe we could put it towards keeping Craig Bellamy or getting a new keeper!
http://www.coca-colafootball.co.uk/
-
Bigchipsuk:
Roy Carroll is undoubtedly a good keeper but I still don’t think he is the answer, anyway his hair is way too dodgy.
Big Joe.
-
Carroll isn't the answer, this guy throws the ball into the net on a regular basis. ACM? What about the high ball with the imaginary tub of Flora smeared on it several weeks ago against Spurs? He then claws it back from two feet over the line and gets up with a straight face on him, as if he'd just pulled off the best save in the world.
Niemi's the man, ex-hun or not, great keeper.
-
I'd take Paul Robinson from Spurs. It's only a matter of time until he get's fed up with winning nothing every season. And what better way to put himself back in the England frame than to be playing well in the Champions' League?
-
1. Goalkeepers.
Weed out the dead wood. We have 3 international keepers who do not command a first team place, the key word hear is command. Wee need a keeper who we cant drop, who bosses his defender and doesn’t get respect, he commands it. Two must go in the summer.
big rabs got offers from leister and middle east, going in the summer
-
Evening Paul, fellow tims.
Paul you must have steam coming out your ears by now. Nobody stating that Laursen should leave, and people starting to say Sutton,Thomson and Varga should be on their way.Whatever can be happening to your main ball playing players that we should be building the team around? Seems to me they all have two things in common. Firstly,I could run faster than them, and secondly,they are all vastly overpaid just having signed new extended contracts.Add to that, BBJ and it seems to me that most of these big earners only seem to be playing out of their skin when the contract is up for renewal.I think Bellamy has really shown what we are lacking.Pure and simple,a decent player with speed.Once he gets going, so does the whole place, and whatever may be thought of Agathe, no one on this site cannot tell me the hairs haven't been standing on the back of their necks when he is in full flight down the touchline with three players left in his wake.Granted he may then hoof the ball over the bar, but, by god, it is good to watch.Pace is what we lack, and if any prospective player is lacking in it then he should not be considered a signing target.As you are constantly pointing out,we want to make the move to the "next level" and feature more prominently in the Champions League.Well,one look at the teams left should leave us in no doubt that what we are lacking (minus the recent input from Bellamy)is pace.Skilful players we do have, Thoughtful battling players we do have but sometimes they are just not enough when we have to deal with speed.And this is where I feel we are getting caught out when it comes to playing against a better class of opposition.Of the present first team the only ones I would really be upset about losing would be Petrov and McGeady.And Bellamy if he decices to stay.The rest, although having given good service,could easily be replaced within the budget which is there to be used on the footballing side.If Mon cannot do what every manager from Lippi to Wenger,from Ferguson to Stein could do, and that is to know when to move players on when it is in the best interests of the club (namely,when we can get a decent transfer fee for them) and bring in someone else to either blend in,or improve the team, then maybe we should be looking at getting someone else to do that side of the football business and let Mon do what he does best, and motivate the players at his disposal.
-
Bellamy to stay plus look out for Ryan Giggs being the first signing of the summer.
-
Crivens!
No ones mentioned Charlie Miller!!
-
Financial reality in Germany is pretty bleak at the moment, and (cash rich) poker players can definitely find bargains.
Borussia Dortmund have announced that nine players must go in an attempt to reduce debts + overheads. They must reduce their current salary bill for all staff (incl. Non-playing) to under EUR30m. The playing staff took a 20% drop last season. Whether Dortmund can motivate players who are earning 20% less than they had agreed remains to be seen. Their performances this season may be the answer to this. They will not feature in Europe next season and will cosequently have a reduction in income. Last season they sold their key player Torsten Frings to arch rivals Bayern Munich as financial meltdown became reality.
>From the nine players who must leave, they hope to generate EUR10-15m in sales. Rosicky is one of the nine who must go. He is the only player who will raise a significant sum, but BVB have already passed the sales rights onto an insurer as a condition of a loan. They will gain little from his transfer, but they are prepared to cut their losses by removing him from the wage bill. They have officially announced who are leaving and their strategy in the future will be bosman transfer candidates. They have also announced that they would like to hold onto Dede, Metzelder, Koller + Kehl. We all know that the players that clubs would like to hold onto are in effect the ones who are most marketable. Dortmund's problems will not be solved in the short term, and the reality is that most players with ambition would rather be playing elsewhere - they only have one career after all.
Jeremies may have featured in the Champions League as a sub, but with a midfield from Ballack, Frings, Hargreaves, Deisler, Ze Roberto, Scholl + Schweinsteiger, Jeremies has become a bit player.
Hildebrandt has already announced that he will leave Stuttgart at the end of this season. He has not announced where he is going to.
Hleb has also gone on record as saying that he will leave Stuttgart unless they are Champions League contenders. This sounds like an exit strategy. Stuttgart signed him for EUR150K in 2000, but he has announced Barcelona, Arsenal, Real + Milan as preferred destinations (where else?). He is tied to a contract which runs until 2008.
Celtic could definitely market themselves as a top club with European + EPL ambition. We are after all one of the elite band who have actually won the Champions Cup (albeit many years ago).
Celtic can also match the salaries of most German clubs. Only the real superstars are earning more. Taxation + deductions in the UK are significantly less (high rate c.50%) than in Germany (high rate c.55-60%). In addition, property prices are pretty stagnant in Germany. Sign a 4-5 year contract in the UK, buy a property whose price rises at a moderate 20% year-on year, and leave without having spent a penny on the property (tax-free). These are incentives that should be marketed to any potential signings.
As for cases such as Rivaldo and Amoruso, I think we can consider ourselves lucky that we didn't sign them. Basturk did admittedly go elsewhere, but for less money. We shouldn't forget that outside of Istanbul, Berlin has the largest Turkish population in any European city - this probably played a more significant role than salary.
We should be aiming high but looking around in markets where there are more affordable players of proven quality than in the EPL, otherwise we will not be able to sustain ourselves long term.
KD FfM
-
Help information required here please.
Firstly, why the issue about whether Bellamy may be tempted to stay, can we afford him etc etc. I think it's the other way round. If he proves himself (as he is doing) we'll give him a contract. If not thanks and bye bye. Do we not operate at a big profit each year? Are we not reducing the wage bill massively by getting rid of Juninho and Lambert alone before even thinking of some of the deadwood. He wont get a much better chance of playing in the Champions league (the pinnacle). And also, are we the only club not allowed to sell players? Will Nike not insist on big names to shift strips?
Alexander Hleb for Celtic. If I could choose one player to play for us it would be him. Thanks for mentioning him, now any signing will seem like an anti-climax. Collective finger crossing everybody.
One other thing, I understand the connection between Glazer/Man U and our interim results but I don't understand why they are not just routinely released. Why does the potential Glaser situation stop that information being released. Hmmmm Again I ask, does Mr 67 know more than he's letting on ? And if so please influence the Alexander Hleb situation. Certainly hope so...
Hail Hail everyone.
-
Kano,
Absolutely spot on. Petrov, McGeady, Bellamy. There are a few of the youngsters that I would be more upset about losing now than some of the 'seasoned' pros. Yes, MON has a built a team round Lennon, Sutton, Thomson, Hartson but there is no room for sentiment in football.
I happen to think that there is still some more life in Sutton and Thomson but I could easily lose the other two. The club does not owe these players anything at the end of their contracts. They have been handsomely rewarded and if they are past their peak then they can still earn a decent shilling elsewhere and watch the interest mount up.
Pace is almost an imperative in the modern game. There are exceptions-usually midfielders who do a certain type of job-but slow defenders and slow forwards are usually of little use to anyone at the top level. Do you think Monaco would have allowed Prso to go if he was quicker? No denying he's a player otherwise.
Celtic has given some of the guys mentioned above their best years-lets remember there was no huge scramble for their services. The only one who gave us more than we could return was Henke. He turned down bigger money elsewhere because, I believe, he grew to love the club.AS has been pointed out who is going to offer Lennon £30k a week. He might,just, get a lower Premiership club to part with £20k for a year but I have my doubts.
This is the time for a clear out and it's time for a healthy dose of realism. If we are in the financial position Paul suggests then the time is ripe to re-mould the side.Young,quick,ambitious players with a sprinkling of experience.
-
Paul,
concerning this vote on http://www.coca-colafootball.co.uk/
is their a catch?
True-Tim: You are bang on about Liam Miller, he has made a mistake going to Manchester, and I think he will struggle to break through to the first team at all this will have a bearing on his confidence and hence his performances, he may even choose another club to go to, rather than swallow his pride.
Concerning Riordan, someone suggested he is too much of a gamble, perhaps however the bigger gamble is not to buy him now before his price inflates.
-
Paul,
concerning this vote on http://www.coca-colafootball.co.uk/
is their a catch?
True-Tim: You are bang on about Liam Miller, he has made a mistake going to Manchester, and I think he will struggle to break through to the first team at all this will have a bearing on his confidence and hence his performances, he may even choose another club to go to, rather than swallow his pride.
Concerning Riordan, someone suggested he is too much of a gamble, perhaps however the bigger gamble is not to buy him now before his price inflates.
-
Fine words Paul, as usual you seem to have done your homework, can you give MON a call just in case he hasn't read this article yet.
-
With regards to Bellamy, we are all wasting our time talking about it. If Celtic are going to keep him they want to see him consistently perform at this level until the end of the season. He will only stay if we are in the champions league. He will only stay if he becomes the 'main man' at Celtic park; he is the type of player who thrives on attention. At ths moment in time just let him go out and do his stuff, everything will happen in due course. At the end of the season Celtic will value his contribution(hopefully a league title) and look to his possible future contribution (i.e. champions league) and hopefully they will decide that they cannot afford NOT to buy him. As i say there is a long way to go.If he gets sent of against the huns it will be a different story.
As for getting rid of the highly paid 'big' players. THis will not happen all at the one time. MON does not do this. What do you think was one of the main contributers to our UEFA cup run? Team spirit. These players set the standard for the others. I think some of us are being too short sighted. Not that long ago we drew with Barca and Milan and beat Shaktar Donesk. These players have the experience to produce these results and i believe that if we are to have a successful champions league campaign then we will need the presence of the bulk of these players.
-
RE mcgeady petrov and bellamy yes agree that these players should start to be the base for future squads I would argue that agathe marshall maloney kennedy beattie pearson mcmanus macnamarra balde should be added some of these players might end up being bench players but they are young and talented and have time to grow.
In the not so sure category I would place sutton, hartson, thompson, lennon, henchov, possibly varga, laursen.
Nonetheless it would be fool hardy to just let them all go some have life left in the legs yet and indeed might end up as bench players.
In the out category sylla, fernandez, joos, lambert junhinhoshame but it just hasnt worked out for the little fella, my personal opinion is that you could add sutton or hartson, thommo, varga, + laursen.
Controversial bring back the king on a 2 year deal it hasnt worked out for him his guile and football brain combined with bellamys speed what a combo. If wee bazzza the snide can do it why not the king?.
-
Sorry, can I add the word operating before the word profit in my earlier post.
PS Just read Mel's comment from 11.30 re Liam Miller
One word...fantastic
-
Anon at 1.44pm
IMITATION IS THE SINCEREST FORM OF FLATTERY!
CHEERS MATE
Steven Fleury
-
love everything you say, but i feel this is just wishful (right word?) thinking, paul. All of these players i would love to see at the club, and all of these players are unatainable. That's like saying javier masherano should come to celtic. Aren't we all forgetting that there are Man Us, Arsenals and Liverpools out there who not only have better financial clout than us but have a better attraction to players. Don't get me wrong, i am 100% behind exploiting the Bundesliga's meltdown, but i feel these are the wrong players to go for. Anyway, all that matters is that paul can get us all here to talk Celtic, and we all have different ways of doing thath
-
2 points about Bellamy who I considered to be Newcastle's best player in the last few years:
First, if we really want him we will find the money as we did for Henrik's salary. If neccessary to fund Bellamy I would even sell Harston, as he is most bankable asset (I'm sure a number of mid table EPL teams would want him) and although he has served us well he is too slow for Champions League football.
Secondly, I agree with some of the comments that perhaps we are over emphasising the positive in his comments about wanting to stay but missing the negatives.
PS Is this site addictive or what?!
-
http://www.esthercoma.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/bellamy3.wmv
Just in case anyone aint seen bellars trebles serving of jhoy!
Hail Hail
Martybhoy
-
I cannot believe that anyone here thinks that Celtic will spend this kind of money on these,or indeed any other players of this calibre.They may push the boat out for Bellamy,but talk of Hleb,Jeremies etc is complete nonsense I'm afraid.
The PLC have operated completely polarised spending strategies over the managerial term of MON,giving him big bucks in year 1 & 2,then giving him zilch since then with a determination to reduce the debt.
Does anybody think that they will go back to the original strategy in the summer?
The previous spending was due to Desmond's belief that the EPL was just round the corner,and when he realised that was a bumsteer,he drew the reigns in.Nothing suggests that this has changed significantly,so therefore the cash spend will remain prudent at CP.
Play around with the figures all you want but unless there is a serious cash injection into the club,talk of £15million spend on transfers is utter nonsense.Sorry guys but I'm a realist.
-
Belfast Bhoy, I think you are missing something. Celtic’s wage bill for all employees is £40million. I’m not sure what the £43million figure for Man Utd came from, but their annual bill will be close to twice ours.
TrueTim
The Scottish league is a problem, however, as others have pointed out, we are hopeful of keeping Bellamy and we have attracted and kept the likes of Larsson in the past.
There are only four big teams in England, two in Spain, three in Italy and one in Germany and these clubs cannot sign everyone.
Beyond them you will lose the odd one, like Basturk, who will move for other reasons, but we will be in a position to pay more money than pretty much every other club who will be bidding for us and we can offer CL football.
The money and the CL will attract certain players, especially from Germany at the moment.
No info on Riordan, ignore what Miller says to the media, Man Utd are trying to off-load him – and this is a fact.
Wullie Gordon,
Agree with your observations again. Martin (correctly in my view) wants to see his players a few times before signing them. He as seen all of the players on the list above at least a couple of times, so they have, at least, got this tick in the box.
Cabbage, Lubo was a great player, every bit as good as John Barnes or Liam Brady – you see where I am going with this. Wake me up in ten years when he has proven what kind of a manager he is.
On this point, do you remember Davie Moyes as a player……?
Kevin from Blantyre
I think Bellamy is the genuine article, but I really don’t like the hype he is getting from the fans in advance of a contract negotiation. We need to learn to play a poker face on this one, fans campaigning for the club to give him what he wants will only result in his agent demanding more money and Celtic having to work the figure down.
Big Joe, big results sometimes require big brave actions. Perhaps time for a big change.
Bigchipsuk, Roy Carroll? Why don’t I go in goals instead?
Robinson and Niemi are both playing in the EPL, where we all agree we get poor value for money. Look to Germany.
Kano
I agree with your comment on pace, we need it and we don’t have enough of it.
Although I am fond of Thompson, Sutton and Lennon et al, when it comes to team planning there are no holy cows. Celtic comes first for you, me and the players as well.
Cambulangisareality
I have been looking for any sign of Giggs but have not found one. It is a move which makes some sense, so I will keep looking for it.
Kevin (KD Ffm) is the one to thank for much of the research on this article. Your comment demonstrates the urgency of the problem in Germany. Fertile ground for us.
Thedominie, stay tuned!
No idea about the vote Mcgarveybhoy.
Oregonbhoy, thanks for your kind words. I am sure that Martin knows all these things, no harm in banging the drum a bit just in case.
Anon 8.11
As I said above, sure we will not sign someone if Arsenal or Man Utd are in for him, but we can pay each of these players more money than they are on at the moment, and the big clubs cannot sign everyone.
We should be planning at this level.
Tiffer67, the big spend in 2000 happened at a time when there was no EPL deal on the horizon. There is now.
Also, the club have run at a loss every year for the last six years. I’ll do a budget projection soon which will show that we can spend this kind of money and still break even.
As several others have pointed out here, there will be many millions shaved from the wage bill in the summer, there will also be many millions shaved from the amortisation charge.
Celtic WILL spend this money, just as they have done for each of the previous six years and more.
-
Paul67 where is the evidence that there is an EPL deal on the table just now?
Budget projections showing how the club can break even is a pointless exercise if you do not have the £15million cash to buy the players now.
-
Our signing priorities for next season have changed in the last 6 weeks from a new keeper/left back/centre half *delete where appropriate, to keep Craig Bellamy. If he stays, and I'm becoming more convinced he might, it'll be down to him wanting to rather than us being able to afford him. Don't think he'll cost £6m, £4m more likely, maybe £5m max. By saying he isn't coming back Newcastle have as good as cut his price and Bellamy won't go to any mid table EPL club (like Birmingham) who may offer £6m+.
Hildebrand and Hleb won't come to the SPL even if we could afford him, Jeremies maybe would, Dede isn't what we need, from what I've seen he's great going forward but not a good defender. If Bellamy comes for £4-5m and we get Lambert, Juninho, Joos and Douglas off the wage bill, sell the non-contributors (Hedman, Sylla and Fernandez) and maybe one of the chosen few (Sutton or Thompson would seem the most likely) then we should still be able to sign a keeper, a left back, and a long term replacement for Lennon. This may involve the Bosmans (if anyone at CP knows what they are).
-
Tiffer67
Celtic are actively working on two strategies to get into the EPL which I have explained here previously. As far as I know there were no such strategies in 2000.
Cash is important, let me tell you what is already in the public domain:
Our debt peaked during last season £6million below our bank facility, which was established in 2000.
We are cash positive at the moment, as we have been for four years.
This season debt will peak somewhere around £9million below our bank facility.
You do the sums for NEXT season and tell me how much short you come up when trying to spend £14.5million.
I can assure you that the cash is available for this spend, I have checked this out. All that needs to be decided is team plan for the next period.
-
Paul,Celtic can work on a dozen strategies to get into the EPL but it is not Celtic who are making decisions on whether the EPL allows them in.
Your belief is related to Celtic being under their overdraft limit,to put it in laymans terms.In other words Celtic do not have this money to spend,they merely have the facility to borrow.
The spend you are suggesting that the club will make would seriously undermine the credibility of the Chairman of the PLC.Quinn has told us for the last 3 years that prudency is the key to Celtic remaining a competitive business within a troubled footballing sector.If the PLC were to suddenly raise the debt to the limit,it would prove that they have either acted in a wreckless manner,or that they have lied through their teeth to us during this period.
-
The talk about getting rid of players is getting out of hand. Where do we score all our european goals from? Set plays. Who delivers them? Thompson. O'neil will not get rid of this player, nor will Sutton leave. We cause teams problems due to the presecce and fight in the team. MON is not ready to dismantle that to build a fairytale team of new european class players. In terms of technically gifted players Celtic cannot compete in europe. We rely on a solid unit who will work for one another and play the MON way.
I know Thommo is going through a rough patch but lets hope he comes good. On big european nights its all about big players and they will stay. I have said this before, MON is in a results business and he will buy players who are guaranteed to produce them. Expect some more typical MON signings in the summer.
-
True Tim,I am glad someone else is willing to champion Thommo's cause as the clamour to see him oot on his proverbial arse,is ridiculous.
Thommo has had a poor season by his previous high standards but that doesn't mean the guy cannot get back to the form that made him one of our most effective players during MON's reign.Give the guy a break FFS.
-
Tiffer67
Where does the need to use a term “lied through their teeth” come from?
Prudence? Show me the quote. The club have run massive losses for six consecutive years, losses for this period will probably reach £50million.
Does this sound like prudence? Prudence is the term used by the media to undermine Celtic’s position when in fact they have spent every penny they could get away with. This is closer to extravagance than prudence.
For the first time in many years they will be able to spend fresh money and break even.
As for your comment about it not being Celtic who will decide when we get into the EPL, it was you who raised this as a reason Celtic spent in 2000 not me. The same would be true then as now.
As such it is safe to assume that the spend in 2000 had nothing to do with getting into the EPL and everything to so with building a Celtic team with all the resources available.
This is where we are now.
-
Paul,
Your comments against Tiffer are similar to your last comments against myself. I haven't had the chance to comment up till now.
You want a quote - how about "we wont speculate to accumulate" by Mr Quinn. Or did I just dream this up?
My introduction to this site was my suspiscion that this was a site run by Celtic PR. I conceded I was wrong - but this reinvention of history has all the hallmarks of my first beliefs.
Its all one being close to the board to try and influence Paul - but quite another to end up acting as their mouthpiece.
Lokking forward to those interims............
-
If anyone wants to look on the Man Utd website, it states there wage bill is,
Player/Staff Costs
Staff costs were 46.6 per cent of turnover compared to 40.8 per cent at the same stage last year, at a total cost of £42.7 million (2004 £37.7 million). This increase of £5.0 million is mainly as a result of signing new players Alan Smith, Liam Miller, Wayne Rooney and Gabriel Heinze and a full period for Louis Saha (who joined the Club last January). In addition it includes new contracts for Ruud van Nistelrooy and the Manager, Sir Alex Ferguson, as well as the addition of Carlos Queiroz who returned as Assistant Manager in the summer, partially offset by the disposals of Nicky Butt, Diego Forlan and Fabien Barthez. As we signalled in last year's results, we expect our staff costs to turnover ratio to be just over 50 per cent for the year.
http://www.manutd.com/news/fullstory.sps?iNewsid=161165&itype=466&icategoryid=119
Not sure if this is just the playing staff
Big Joe.
-
Paul the club have been operating on a trading profit over the last few seasons,it is only amortisation that has seen the accounts show heavy losses.You have pointed this out in the past on here,and indeed have heralded the imminent day that sees these heavy amounts disappear.
The debt has reduced,that is what matters,not accountng practices that can work in your favour to reduce profit.
Celtic spent every available penny in years 1 and 2 of MON's management,then they have had to penny pinch in an attempt to reduce a heavy overdraft when tv money had fallen substantially.They were wreckless during that period and it is only down to MON's fantastic achievements on the park that have saved the club from being financially crippled for a longer period.
Now the question is why did they go down this perilous route at a time when they were 2nd best in Scotland and nobodies in Europe?
My opinion is that Desmond thought the EPL was closer than it turned out to be.He gambled,and for the time being it hasn't come off.Your comments of me bringing this up,hardly backs up anything you have stated about a deal being around the corner.
We may well have come full circle after 5 years,but to suggest a huge spend again,is in my opinion incorrect and would put the club back in a position it has stated it is doing everything to get out of.This strategy is as I said earlier,makes a complete clown out of Brian Quinn's rhetoric.
-
Neg Anon, put the quote in context.
They have speculated hugely. As I say, probably close to £50million losses by the end on this season in six years. Don’t tell me this is prudence.
As you will know by now, my point is not to defend the board, however, most Celtic fans I meet do not know the extent of the losses we operate under. There is a belief that Celtic are stashing cash in a biscuit tin, which is clearly not the case.
Let's see what the interims bring. The delay is unpresidented, plans are afoot.
-
TrueTim
The point you make about Celtics goals coming from set plays in Europe illustrates where our problems will lie in the years to come if we continue to play the same style of football that we were playing up until a few weeks ago.
Not one of the teams in the last 8 of the CL could be considered anything other than a good footballing side.This is the standard that we need to aim for and to do it we need to make gradual changes in personnel over the next few years to bring in more technically gifted players.
I truly believe that MON would still be able to motivate them and get them playing with spirit while playing a quick passing game more suited to European football.If we don't make this change then my concern is that we will not be able to compete at CL level and will be left with the UEFA Cup to play for.
BankieBhoy
-
BankieBhoy you are right, the changes have to happen gradually. To make these changes costs a lot, just ask the teams in the last 8. I believe the club is going in the right direction. The concencus is now that we have two young midfielders that can take us forward, Petrov and McGeady. If we can add another midfielder that can beat a man, a young defender who will develop (i.e. Samuel from Villa), and a relatively young dynamic forward (i.e. Bellamy) then i would be happy with those three signings. they would move the club in the right direction. This stategy could be applied to every pre-season so that we could plan in advance and have the appropriate scouting done before hand. This is a strategy which minimises the chance a failure. Celtic need to start acting like a proper business in terms of aquisitions. I realise it is hard cause the manger wants control but surely the two can come together.
We have the core, the young players, now lets phase in young athletic technically able players to keep the engine of success running smoothly.
-
Paul how much of this £50million is down to trading losses? Can you also explain the mechanics of the last share issue in so much as how much did the Bunnet get,and if there was any capital left over to invest in the PLC.
-
Bog Joe
thanks for the Man Utd info, these wage sfogures are for six months, our £40million is for 12 months.
-
|
