 Tuesday, April 19, 2005
Forget developing Barrowfield Celtic, you could give Martin O’Neill more money if you have the vision to see the big picture.
We have all heard some or other football club director talk about maximising stadium revenues. You know the old mantra, ‘at the moment the stadium is utilised around 30 days per year, we need it to earn money outside of match days’.
Building a restaurant and museum, however, is not the answer, and shows a lack of understanding of some of the larger problems facing the club.
Within the next few months Celtic will commit millions of pounds to a training facility which, unless I am to be pleasantly surprised, will fail to demonstrate the vision necessary to maximise the clubs potential.
Today Celtic Park and the Barrowfield site are completely inappropriate for our needs. The non-match-day earning potential in the Parkhead area is practically zero. An excellent restaurant sits half-full most weekends, and the museum will not generate enough profit to pay the clubs petrol bill.
Non-match-day revenues are about building facilities which can return large reliable revenues. A stadium the size of Celtic Park could tier five floors of offices with 500,000 sq.ft. of space. Office space currently commands over £20 per sq.ft. in towns like Bellshill, where I rent my office (Bellshill is the new ‘Valley by-the-way). That’s around £10million per year, and we are only talking offices so far.
The adjoining Training Centre should have publicly available facilities to including a fully appointed Health Club and pool – how many hours a week do you think the football players would use them? There should be a cinema and other leisure facilities - did you know that Livingston Football Club earn more from their night-club than they do from their football club?. Another few million there perhaps?
A football stadium and training complex could be the lead focus of a large property development. Such developments usually have a mix of housing, retail, commercial and industrial with leisure facilities.
Celtic could seek partners for the project who are prepared to fund the football stadium as a cost of getting the retail and housing development business.
This would not be a pioneering venture, several large sports projects have walked down this path before. And, remember, St Johnstone pulled a deal like this off back in the 1980’s.
Celtic Park is a creation of its time. Back in 1994 Fergus inherited an impoverished football club, with thousands of latent fans sitting at home each weekend. He needed a large venue to hold these fans should the product on the park be sufficient to coax them along.
Today’s stadium ticked all the boxes back then, and more importantly, it was deliverable. However, there is no reason we should remain there until the stands fall down. Just as there is no reason why we should stay at Celtic Park if it means denying the club resources to give to the manager.
Football is a business where maximising revenues are critical to achieving on, and off-field objectives. As we have all heard, our earning ability is constrained by our current playing environment and the spending capacity of 60,000 fans. Playing in the SPL only constrains some of our earning avenues; it does not stop us turning our major fixed asset into a 365 day a year revenue stream.
Build a new pavilion with some showers at Barrowfield now if you must Celtic. However, do not think that spending millions on London Road is the best use of our resources. And please, if we move to England, do not redevelop the South Stand, this would only compound the problem.
A development (or regeneration) project of this size would change planning consent adding value to land which did not previously exist. It is this very tactic which allowed Real Madrid to change from being a slumbering giant with massive debts into the strongest football club on the planet.
No matter which league we play in the future, we need our real estate to earn its keep. All the stresses at Celtic seem to be over money, let’s plan to overcome them. Let’s plan for a strategy where our property will earn Celtic the £20million per year that Manchester United make from domestic TV income.
The ambitions of the support, not to mention the manager, need to club to deliver a world class earning strategy.
Many thanks to the worlds leading property consultants for their research and advice on this article. Their experience at Ashburton Grove, Wembley, Beijing Olympic Village, and the Olympic Stadium Sydney is only a phone call and a three hour flight away. Maybe worth a call Celtic.
The first Celtic Quick News Sports Dinner and Golf Day (for those who play) has been booked for Friday 15th July. Full details on how to book and speakers will be published tomorrow.
73 Comments:
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Paul,
I used to groan when I read your articles well the one's that did not deal with the matches, players form etc.
I thought this is our football club let's talk football - I may have been short sighted.
You have won me round to your way of thinking and I now realise that issues like revenue streams ( I remember when it was called income generation) is now inextricably linked to what happens on the pitch.
I just hope that someone in charge at CP reads this and takes note. My only reservation is that the location of Celtic Park is not exactly prime real estate , however in this age of urban regeneration it may provide good value for money and let's not forget the impending M74 extension will not hamper any plans.
Your ideas sir are highly commendable .
P.S.- there may be a vacancy at Celtic Park fairly soon, modest salary but good expenses package and a possibility of European travel. How are you with a mobile phone ?
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Didn't we give the board the money the last time when it was going to be for the "training" pitches?
Not to worry Bhoys,no point in spending any money on improvements for CP and surrounding areas,why would the board do that?,after all we are moving to the EPL soon,no need for Parkhead anymore,where can we build our next stadium?One minute we have our heads in the sand now we have pies in the sky.If the modern day board of CFC can't tarmac a piece of road outside the park for the fans,what chance do we have for all these great ideas?(none new),after all we have all thought how to improve income and players doon the pub.
I'm off down the estate agents to put my house on the market,buy some extra shares in Celtic and will eagerly what to find out where the next stadium will be built,I'm off to the Premiership.
talking oot yer bum
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Bloody hell Paul, another grenade.
Plenty of logic here, property has created the best yield of any investment over the last 30 years and there is no reason to believe that will stop.
Only problem, as I'm sure you're aware, is that commercial premises, especially of this size, are notoriously difficult to let in full (even divided into smaller units).
As for housing and retail, it has worked very well here in Manchester for the new City Stadium and indeed is still being developed in an area which probably has similar demographics to Parkhead.
The biggest debate will be emotional, look at the reaction about changing the name!!
We have moved stadium already, through necessity and opportunity, why not again?
Take the emotion out of it, Celtic Park has never been the same since the demise of the Jungle ( I even went to the Jungles Last Stand when Celtic 67 played Man utd 68 team ... how sad is that?) or am I losing it in my old age?.
As with the previous thread, everyone wants the best team on the park, we want cash available for the best players and we want to progress in Europe.
Clubs have limited income streams, Casino Las Kinning Park, behave.
Real Madrid did indeed sell their training facilities, I believe, for several million euro. Although they did have some government assistance along the way.
It may be a grenade, but lets see who can come up with a non emotive, commercial reason for not investigating it further.
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Madrid's training ground was situated in the most expensive area of the city,and its sale financed the current team.the same cannot be said of Parkhead or Barrowfield.I fail to see how the club can regenerate an area that has been in decline for the last three generations.The land is worth diddly-squat and that won't change no matter how much office space is worth in Bellshill.Are you seriously proposing a move away??Strathclyde Park anyone??Barking up the wrong tree here Paul,I'm afraid(A politer version of a previous poster's assesment!)
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Ambitious.
Are you suggesting that we move from Parkhead?
Something like this would take alot of money (£100M??). Where would this come from? If we partnered with other companies wouldn't that cut the potential profits available to the club? It would reduce the risk the club was exposed to tho'.
How much scope for development is there in the area surrounding the club.
While we're dreaming off new facilities ... I would like to see a bigger stadium say 100,000 seater. And to fill it heavily discount childrens season tickets. Lets get famillies back to the match.
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paul,
Was it not Livingston FC's night club(among other things) that put them into administration last year?
Maybe you should run your idea past Brian Quinn;just leave it on his answer phone.
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I have to say that a new or improved training facility is not top of my wish list. I want to see any money available to spend on an ageing team. We have the best group of young players in the country by a mile. Maloney, Kennedy,Beattie,McManus,McGeady,Wallace and Miller trained and played at Barrowfield. It is not the amount you spend on these facilities that count but the scouting and coaching. Rankers have the super dooper Murray Park, who have they brought through.The saving grace of having no transfer budget is that you can occassionally see a good young player get 10 minutes as a sub instead of some of th 10 grand a week + benchwarmers.Paul although I would love to see this type of development can you really see our current board having the business accumen to do this or the courage to stand aside and let other do so?One final point regarding the media hype surrounding "Quinngate".Quinn and MON may not get on but who cares?Quinn and MON should both have their heads banged together by involving us in more "Celts In Crisis" headlins on the eve of the biggest game of the season.We have given idiots like Charlie Nicholas the chance to suggest MON may walk away etc. I would ask everyone for at least this week stay away from phonelines and letters pages as they only encourage the gutter press and media lapdogs to have a go in the run up to a vital game.
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I don't see how that will come to fruition, to be honest - Chelsea Village for example has been an utter disaster - and it's based in one of the richest areas of London.
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Have you been drinking BQ's wine Paul?
I presume this one is a filler...
Clubs must play in a stadium +
Clubs must earn additional revenue; Does not in my book equal must move
A stadium usually sits empty except matchdays...the sooner the board realise that the better for all concerned...The fact we have exceptional profit per square metre at celtic Park should be seen as a good thing and consequently should be encouraged...
If its so important to diversify- why is there a need to do it on the same land/building...If you think you can make money from the restauraunt trade with the "celtic brand" buy one in the city centre..
Likewise a hotel, museum, etc etc...
Maybe we could set up a gadget shop selling "new fangled items"
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It never fails to amaze me how critical our fans can be. We criticise new ideas and nae ideas.
I will keep the average up then and go for the glass full all the way up to the top.
Sounds like a plan...let's explore it.
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There is a spare bit of land at cambulsng - now there is an ideal spot - anyone got the telephone number of Gefinor ???
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There is a spare bit of land at cambulsng - now there is an ideal spot - anyone got the telephone number of Gefinor ???
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I don't see the problem with this. We all know the club needs to generate more money and providing a steady stream of income on non-match days seems a perfectly reasonable way to do it. I would however like to encourage the club to improve facilities available on match days first! We all know what the failings of the stadium are so I won't list them, but in order to do any of these things it would take the investment of both time and money. I haven't seen any reason to beleive that the folks on the board have the vision and determination to drive an idea like this through. I agree with Paul that they DO spend money when available but I'm not seeing many ground breaking (or even just plain old obvious) idea's coming from them to increase turnover without forcing the fans to dig deep again.
How many strips do you think they'll release this summer? Anyone had their renewal forms yet? What's the increase?
qmark (I just can't login anymore!)
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Sorry meant to say....
..as for moving the stadium??? It'd be a wrench but it could be worth it. I know we've been there for decades but I for one would love to see the club's stadium/facilities surrounded by an area that wouldn't make possible signings think twice.
No offense meant to anyone from Parkhead!!
qmark
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The Parkhead area is fine if you want a low cost football ground and training facility. If you want your real estate to generate an income stream which can be put back into the club Parkhead will not deliver.
It all depends on what your ambition for Celtic is. Do you want us to work within our current means and try to be smarter on the field than our opponents, or do you see Celtic as potentially the biggest club in the world.
I want to see Celtic win the Champions League more often than any other club. I never want to lose a player to Birmingham City again (no offence to B’ham fans here).
Celtic has the potential to become a more successful club than Juventus. Board and fans alike are selling us short if we do not plan to reach the very top.
I know hearts and minds will need to be convinced in the board and in the stands, however, who wants to settle for anything less?
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As an exiled Tim in Sheffield I was recently working for a company which had offices In the training ground of Sheffield United, despite the abundance of office space I see advertised in the city the offices do quite well and can only help contribute to the clubs income, this is certainly something we could exploit at our club however I agree that the land around Parkhead isn’t the best place for this, any additional income must help and with merchandising almost saturated all areas should be explored. It’s a bit of a joke a club like ours doesn’t even have the facilities many Championship and league one sides can boast, a club like Barnsley can put us in the shade
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Paul,
I assume from this latest "financial fantasy" (quote courtesy of the E-Tims) that you have now abandoned the 20million quid credit facility fiasco.
Why not get the players to form a bhoy band and generate revenue that way.
Taxi for Quinn.
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I like what you,ve said there. Basically we're looking for something hardly ever seen in this country and virtually never by Celtic ...Ambition.
Maybe moving is'nt appropriate, maybe it is. But it should definitely be something the club is at least considering, even if only to eliminate it.
We keep hearing about the 'worldwide brand' from those up high. So what does it result in. A shared sponsorship from our lesser city competitors, virtually nothing else. The club NEVER market anything properly to me, we have sponsors from mobile phones, holidays, cars, beer, all I ever see is a junk e-mail. Imagine for example if your mortgage was with a Celtic linked sponsor but you got your season ticket free. Just a for instance. They get the business, we save a fortune. That one might be bollox, I just wish there was a bit of imaginative thinking.
Fair play to you Paul.
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Paul don't fancy a move much, did we not miss the boat when we could have bought and redevoleped the area around nuneaton street??
Ideal for a training facility/sports, health gym. I take your point and some has foundation but as someone said earlier the board has no foresight we can't even get the bog which mascarades as a bus park Tarmaced!!!
Let's concentrate on Sunday for the moment and steer clear of radio phone ins etc. Quinn must go!! but let's get the league wrapped up first..............
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Some fair ideas some not .
We will not be moving From our home so forget the idea. However why not with or new when building new training facilities built say 10 five aside astro-grass parks . Anyone who plays fives will know how busy these parks are and also at 60pound an hour makes a fair bit of profit . ideas like this a plausible as are making gyms available outwith training hours. Moving from the ground breaks tradition something i would like to keep , another cambuslang move no thanks ! why not make the hoops stripes to see if more people buy the strip ?
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Evening Paul,fellow tims.
Paul, does the phrase"Bolivian marching powder"mean anything to you, and if so, how much have you been taking? Or are you just working too hard?
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thedomine hits it on the head. It's all about ambition.
Rankers have offices inside Ibrox that used to be leased to Addidas (when they were kit sponsors) and an accountancy firm. Now I'm not saying what we should or should not be doing however, what we want to see is a proactive board searching as far as is reasonable to exploit the clubs assets to further strengthen the playing side of the equation.
The only thing I would suggest is that in comparative terms Celtic are pretty much cannon fodder on a "Global Brand" scale. A T/O of £60M per year is never going to attract the best business minds, and neither (dare I say it) is a football club.
This is one area I would like to see DD bring to bear some sort of contribution. (not in money terms) In strategic thinking and business accumen. He is worth the bestpart of a billion, surely he can afford to set a few days aside to analyse Celtics assets and ask his bods to come up with some plans??
Until then Paul, I hope someone at CP is reading and just thinking how we can use our resources to better effect.
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Great idea Champs. A new kit with green and white horizontal stripes would be a guaranteed best seller. but the stripes must go all the way around.
On the issue of getting use of the ground on more than once or twice a fortnight, why not sell (or lease) the land occupied by the current training ground (assuming the PLC actually owns it) to developers and train at CP. This would earn some income form the sale/lease and enable the training to take place in slightly more glamorous surroundings at a venue which, already being paid for, would essentially be free of charge to use.
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One other thing, thedomine mentioned the marketing at CP. He's right it is a disgrace. Size 8 font and words highlighted like "it is essential that you give us your support" (or words to that effect. What are they trying emotional blackmail now? come on Celtic, better please! It's not that hard.
Paul, over the period you have posted several articles relating to revenue streams such as th stadium name, better use of land etc. Do you have an idea of what the consolidated value of these idea might be woth on an annual basis?
I'm against Celtic moving from Parkhead but I'm not against using our brains for the betterment of the club. Pie in the sky some may be but eventually, you'll get one that is a cracker and is worth a mint.
Keep up the good work Paul, not been posting but always reading.
I look forward to the CQN get together details.
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thedominie - I have just changed my mortgage and on one of the pages it said how much commission was paid to the broker.
The payment was in excess of £1000 (Pressumably if I kept the mortgage with them for x years).
I think if Celtic did do a tie up with mortgage ie fans take out a Celtic branded mortgage and the club recieve the brokers commission this could equate to some several million pound per year.
It is like the Celtic Credit Card. A percentage of the spend is given to the club - You would be spending the money anyway so it is like a free contribution to the club. But how well is this product marketed? does anyboy here have one? why not setup a Celtic Finance and put that on the shirts rather than a watery beer?
On a slightly different note, I see Nike have publish an investigation in to the practices employeded throughout their plants in the far east. From what they said it would seem like they are trying to be more responsible with their employees. Might not be perferct but they should be commended for trying to improve matters.
Hail Hail
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A very interesting article Paul, however did Fergus McCann not do a feasability study back in 94 to decide whether it was more worthwhile to move to a new location, complete with offices, hotel etc?
I really can't see it happening though as the amounts involved in these things are now astronomical. Just look at the amounts in the Arsenal project. The only way that we could manage it is with a lucrative sponsorship.
However I have heard a story from an engineering friend of mine in that the concrete used in the building of the North Stand is of a temporary nature, with a shelf life of 25 years.
There is still a field available in Cambuslang, if anyone wants to phone Mr Kelly or Mr White.
Wullie Gordon
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Paul,
discussion proviking article but in terms of finance and viability you're into my territory and believe me 500,000ft off London Road will not generate £20 a foot - nearest comparitor is Citypark in Denniston (old Wills tobacco factory)- the scheme is 300,000ft and is half let, they are looking for £12 a foot. The only reason the developer could cope with carrying the interest on the empty space was that they sold the adjacent land for housing for £5m. The problem with a major regeneration scheme is that on avaerage they are 10 years in the making, face major infrastructure costs and need willing and complimentary partners. The new Arsenal stadium is placing the team in jepordy in the medium term and the banks are financing it on the basis of major growth in Arsenal's non match day income (by the way your comment about Juve is spot on, their current match day income is £11.7m cf. Celtic's £34.7m. Problem is they made £86.2m from broadcasting rights we made £16.1m!! All the data is available on Deloitte's website - Football Money League report). Celtic's problem is that of the 20 clubs in the top financial league we rely on matchday income for half of our turnover - the highest proportion of any in the top 20. We MUST increase our commercial and broadcasting income but I'm not convinced that the plc Board have the desire or nouce to do it, they'd be quite happy just qualifying for the CL each year and coming out with the old mantra of moving to England every now and then to defect criticism. Moving from CP would cause an uproar so I believe that we need to explore other avenues - starting with G14 admission and an expanded CL.
DavieL.
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DavieL
You have mis-read, I said that Parkhead will not generate commercial returns, neither is Denniston, though it is interesting that they have managed to let 150,000 s.f. already.
Interesting also that the developer realised £5million from the adjacent land.
Your points are correct:
We need to seek partners.
This will be a 10 year project.
We are selling ourselves short if we do not look for a regular commercial income stream.
I don’t want to bore everyone with the same old story every couple of days, but as people continue to read/forget and then post here:
To “Taxi”, if you read the accounts, remove the wages of players who will not be here next season, remove the amortisation charge that will not be here next season how much do you think we can spend next year?
Or did you not think at all?
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Sorry bhoys
but as far as im concerned this meandering and bizzare blurb is a classic piece Of disinfomation (rubbish) thrown out onto a website to take the heat out of the Real argument which was unexpectedly shown some light by the manager on a very contraversial subject of MONEY and where it goes after the celtic board have had a go at it
Mon his given a bone to the public that he is wanting the media To run with ie whats the story with celtics wage bill for last season
Itv claimed last night that’s celtics wages last season were £21 million so why was £40 million claimed in the books and where does the difference In sums come from ?
And more importantly where has the £19 million difference in sums gone?
Once again celtic and dodgy accounting by the board are shown up to the light And hastilly put back in its box again never to see the light of day And this lets the ripping off of the supporters money continue
Until desmond dermott and his cohorts are removed from power at
Parkhead celtic are going nowhere but downhill
Mon is trying to fight against this
Shame on you for putting this article out
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Paul, why not redevlop the south stand? or even increase the capacity of CP elsewhere.As DavieL stated the vast majority of our income comes from matchday's, so surely more fans attending games means more money being made available for MON.
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On a different tack I note that Leeds United are said to be trying to sign Gary Naysmith (reported on the BBC Sport website). It also reports that he did not accept the last contract offered to him, and that this has now been withdrawn by the club.
Surely he'd rather play in the CL than the middle of the English second division? If Celtic really want the guy they must be in with a shout.
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Should Celtic really be looking to bring in a left back(more wages)because Ulrik was actually doing alright before he disappeared(?)Plus signing Naysmith, or whoever, would be another block in front of the promising Stephen McManus and would be a bit of a contradiction for the new training facilities that are supposed to develop future talent.
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We could hold a tea and bun day type fair at parkhead to generate funds. The wifeys could notch up some cakes and things should go down a treat. We could have pin the donkey, coconut shys, the list is endless. Move from parkhead ffs get a grip man. Were not arsenal were not man city or sunderland were the timaloy who have been at parkhead for oh the longest of times. Why not buy the land directly adjacent to the jungle and build a helicopter pad so that git desmond could get to the ground more often. The only saviour for celtic is he pops his clogs and his son a genuine celtic fanatic inherits his fortune, then you just might see the dipping into ones pocket.
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Trouble with laursen is he is injury prone. Trouble with macmanus he s more suited to a left central role, rather than that of an outright left back. If ye get ma drift lol. Move from Parkhead cant get over that one. How much is a return to milton keynes?.
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Milton Keynes, Return:£134.56
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Celtic missed the chance to maximise CP potential by not redeveloping the land roundabout. Massive boozer, Hotel and offices could have been built but that has passed. Now it will be a motorway and a sports centre that no one will ever use.
To the anon who said that MON has once again just highlighted the lack of cash. Get a grip Martin is just covering his own back. He is making all these noises in public when in reality he doesn’t want to keep these players. He will offer them a token contract massive wage cut and the players will walk away allowing him to sight financial difficulties. When MON downsizes the squad which means a Burnely left back, Mark Wilson, Paul Hartley and an aging bosman signing and the second coming off Yoof then they fail, he can go I had no money had to reduce the quality of the squad etc.
MON knows he has to change the team, he knows the current financial climate and he knows if the board keep Bellamy then he can’t have no arguments about shopping at Happy Shopper and promoting from within.
He is just laying the groundwork for his excuses just now incase it goes pear shaped.
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Off Topic:
Just clocked the back of the todays Evening Times - TFOD linked with a £5million pound defender, bother at Celtic with BQ and MON chucking the toys oot the pram........you would never have guessed it was the run up to an Old firm game!
Just on this as well, I thought Quinn and MON handled the press quite well with the "abacus/wine" jape and saying it was a non-story.
Doubt it will stop "Mad" Hugh et al on the phone-ins tonight though.
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DavieL./Thedominie
Yes Celtic are a (slightly dormant)global brand. The key to an idea like this is not the turnover being generated of c.£60m, but to think of c.2m paying customers per year. How can synergies be created from which Celtic can profit?
As a pretty banal example, suppose a shopping centre with 1000 parking spaces is frequented by 20,000 customers per week. Total customers per year = just over 1m. Suppose the 2m Celtic fans walk through/past the shopping centre to get to see a football match, then the centre operator is suddenly interested in football.
This example can be adapted to produce other synergies beneficial to a whole range of partners, an avenue which has not been explored too seriously.
Finding partners will not be difficult providing the vision has a basis.
KD FfM
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sorry, TFOD???
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Paul67
Golf outing on 15th of July? I've heard on good authority that there are plenty of tee-off times available on the 12th.
KD
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Paul, Real Madrid's Cuidad Deportivo training ground was/is situated on some of the most expensive real estate in Spain, if not mainland Europe, given the proximity of Government Ministries and Multinational HQ's. Celtic's facilities being in the slightly less salubrious East End of Glasgow might be a little less appealing prospect to developers.
Mikey Bhoy
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Paul - absolutely nothing wrong with being prepared to think the supposedly unthinkable - but this time your arguements do not persuade me.
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To all who are running this down.
listen to the words of two very wise men.
You've got to have a dream
If you dont have a dream
How you gonna have a dream come true?
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Anon 12:07 Our season book forms came in last week Adults up £10 but 16-18 years up £25
They tell us the rise is between £5 and £25
GalaTim
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I really get fed up when people dismiss ideas out of hand without thinking about them.Celtic have not always played on the current site.If a move as suggested by Paul increased revenues and enabled us to compete more strongly in Europe,would we really want to turn that down?
Southampton,Sunderland,Bolton and Middlesbrough are all examples of clubs who have realised the benefits of moving to new stadiums with the right infrastructure surrounding it.They have all prospered from their moves too.
Why can't we just discuss these things without always having to bring emotion into it? I know Celtic is an emotional attachment for all of us but why should the stadium be so sacred?
My biggest reservation would be around the cost,as Arsenal seem to be diverting money away from the football side to finance their stadium development.However,Wenger had a vision for them to compete with the Man U's of this world and improve their standing as a European side and so did his board.They then set about putting the building blocks in place(literally) to do it.A manager and board with vision and progressive minds,enough to make you jealous!!
As Paul mentioned previously,he wants to see Celtic winning CL's.I wasn't alive to see the first one and don't want to spend the next 50 years(hopefully!!) watching disappointment after disappointment at that level.If playing away from Celtic Park helped us do this,count me in.
BankieBhoy
P.S. bigchipsuk,if we had a jersey that had vertical stripes unbroken,how would you get it over your head?
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Anonymous(if that is your real name)TFOD= The Forces of Darkness...huns!
some people eh?
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paul, is this just your idea or do you something and your not letting on?
Hail Hail
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There's a simple answer to all of this real estate stuff. Ground share with the club with the potential to be the second biggest on the planet, well Glasgow anyway. Wouldm\n't it be fun if nobody other than us or them won the CL for the next 20 years?
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8.32 says,, that should read know something :-)
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chennaiseabird
Youv'e taken that too far!!!!
BankieBhoy
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KD, I’m not prepared to do that amount of walking on the 12th.
Anon, 8.32, I knew what you meant from your first comment for a start :-)
I wish this was the plan, but I know it’s not.
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BankieBhoy
Yes, you're probably right. Real would edge out the Huns once or twice, just like Motherwell in the thirties. Once, actually, but then then the referees really were on agenda then. God I sound old and bitter.
MON's Celtic has never properly asserted itself over Rangers (that's half of the formal name, folks. You can say it if you really try.) apart from 6-2. Even in the green and whitewash, the winning margins were not as big as they should have been. So let's do it properly on Sunday.
And then, at the home games, let's support. Someone says increase the capacity to 100,000. The last thing we need is another 40,000 home "supporters" expecting to win by 4 wonderfully crafted goals. OK, maybe not the last thing. That would be Rab and Magnus vying for goalie.
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Today's topic is way over my head as regards grasping the ins and outs of land developement and business partners etc. As I see it, the kernal of the problem is still the financial differential between TV rights in Scotland and England. At the risk of appearing naive, was there not a proposal to challenge the legality of collective bargaining, or cartels, in EU law? If that is the case, I would assert that this is the road that DD proposed to take in his role as a ManU shareholder, as Club officials are forbidden to challenge UEFA.
I believe that our energies should be channeled in this direction as not only would a successful challenge result in us controlling our media revenues, but it nullifies the reason for existance of the EPL, thereby creating the need to establish another stage on which to perform. With our acclaimed drawing power, it is reasonable to assume that any future setup would have to include us. Am I being too simplistic in this view?
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Everybody got their peparami's for sunday!
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No. I couldn't wait. I've eat mine. Then again, I'm a bit of an animal.
Paul, good article again. The trouble is our finances are so stretched that I think we have limited scope to do anything which would cost us money, or divert money away from the team. On the brighter side, because parkhead is such a dump, we should be able to get land cheap if we do decide to do anything. Was there not meant to be some tie up with GCC at one point to build a facility in the east end?
Sorry to hear the day out is the 15th, I head off on hols the day before. It would have been nice to put a face to the names.
Keep thinking and writing.
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Paul,
You have certainly generated some good ideas here. I don't agree with moving from CP - but we could do more to generate revenue at CP.
How about opening up bars around the stands and encouraging fans to come to CP early instead of drinking wherever we do well before a game.
Of course they have done that for those willing to pay a "season ticket" to get access to the bar (see my previous posts on the new bar club). Our board will only sanction on the basis of gross exploitation. Expect to pay a season ticket to get access to a "celtic nightclub"
Rammiebhoy - on the previous thread - of course I'm not arguing about telling everyone our spending budget but errr - you would expect Quinn, Lawwell and MON to discuss privately...but I guess they don't!
MON is telling us what is going on - in the nicest way possible - we either buy the board line of "we are skint" or, like me, see another agenda.
Oh - someone said I was gloating about Quinn - you must be joking - there is nothing to gloat about. Far from it.
If this was happening with the huns we would be laughing at the feeble attempts to laugh it off - Lawwell's performance is inept to say the least.
And finally - why on earth are we back in bed with the huns talking about an old firm "alliance" to tackle sectarianism. DO WE EVER LEARN. Or are we just desperate for a distraction!
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Paul,
You have certainly generated some good ideas here. I don't agree with moving from CP - but we could do more to generate revenue at CP.
How about opening up bars around the stands and encouraging fans to come to CP early instead of drinking wherever we do well before a game.
Of course they have done that for those willing to pay a "season ticket" to get access to the bar (see my previous posts on the new bar club). Our board will only sanction on the basis of gross exploitation. Expect to pay a season ticket to get access to a "celtic nightclub"
Rammiebhoy - on the previous thread - of course I'm not arguing about telling everyone our spending budget but errr - you would expect Quinn, Lawwell and MON to discuss privately...but I guess they don't!
MON is telling us what is going on - in the nicest way possible - we either buy the board line of "we are skint" or, like me, see another agenda.
Oh - someone said I was gloating about Quinn - you must be joking - there is nothing to gloat about. Far from it.
If this was happening with the huns we would be laughing at the feeble attempts to laugh it off - Lawwell's performance is inept to say the least.
And finally - why on earth are we back in bed with the huns talking about an old firm "alliance" to tackle sectarianism. DO WE EVER LEARN. Or are we just desperate for a distraction!
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Hello ,fellow celts most of the stadiums here our built on brown fields, stadiums built in run down areas near transit close to downtown. 2 reasons land is cheap ,and development is easy,Ilike what the Boston Red socks do they control three blocks on game days in front of the stadium ,food stands activites for the kids and bars and resturants,people arrive early festival atmosphere,enjoy the site wish I was in glasgow this weekend ,all the best
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Added to the tea and bun fair we could in addition run a raffle with pomagne and some old choccies left over from santa day. Im afraid I just dont buy into all this moving stuff whether to the epl or europe or ballahulich. We aint going anywhere so we have to cut our cloth. It is simple get rid of any debt to allow a sum of cash to be available season upon season. Rosemberg springs to mind as an example. Cut our cloth and get on with it. We have no abramovich not even a d.murray so lets please all stop the bleeting on and on and on. We may even have to down scale the present operations ie from 60,000 to 40,000 capacity. We may have to trawl the bosman market for players. If we have to then lets get it done.
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Negative Anon - I didn't see your post on the bar at CP and can't find it. I'd be interested on your thoughts on it as I joined - paid my money, and then sent a letter of complaint in and had my money refunded. It was awful! The 'bar' resembled the inside of a (small) warehouse - it was like going to one of those 'out of town' sports shops.
In addition to that, there wasn't enough tables/chairs, the queue for the bar was huge, and then they decided that the bar had to close at 2.15 before a 3 o'clock kick off. As much as I enjoy going to CP, there's no way I'm interested in taking my seat 45 minutes before the match. Adding insult to injury - we were charged £8 per game for the pleasure!
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Paul 67 - sorry disagree with you on this one, Infact i hope this training facility becomes a reality unlike Cambuslang - hehehehe. I would rather we bit the bullet for a few years on the transfer front & try & emulate teams like Lyon/Ajax who have a conveyer belt of young talent coming through & have the correct facilities to aid their development. The board should have been big enough to do this when Souness arrived at Ibrox. It was clear we couldn't compete/afford it, yet we went on & fired money to the wall we didn't have - hence we nearly became history until The Bunnet stepped in. Therefore the fans would need to be prepared to sacrifice a few ropey seasons on the domestic front in order to accumulate an exciting group of players who can challenge in europe & domestically. I know a lot of fans will disagree with this & would rather give MON silly money, but i reckon we would need to spend about £30 million if we are serious about progressing from the group stage of the Champions League. Unless we are guaranteed entry into the Premiership in the next two years, i would rather see us think long term. I know it sounds a bleak prospect - prepared to concede things domestically for a while, but if people can consider the bigger picture for a second.
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BankieBhoy, what I actually said was: "A new kit with green and white horizontal stripes would be a guaranteed best seller. but the stripes must go all the way around."
But you're absolutely right, if they were vertical unbroken stripes they'd have to come up with a pretty radical shirt design for the players to be able to put them on.
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Never read such Tosh in my puff. I'm with Anonymous of tea and bun day and cutting of cloth to suit etc... Maybe we could persuade our employers/customers to pay us in Celtic coins that we could spend at the Celtic shop - oh that's right that's against the law - damn social progress!!!
johnnybhoy.ch
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Never read such Tosh in my puff. I'm with Anonymous of tea and bun day and cutting of cloth to suit etc... Maybe we could persuade our employers/customers to pay us in Celtic coins that we could spend at the Celtic shop - oh that's right that's against the law - damn social progress!!!
johnnybhoy.ch
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cambuslangisareality, you said:the old board "fired money to the wall we didn't have" during the souness years. i don't remember that.
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SeattleCelt makes a good point. I have been to Fenway (Home of the Red Sox) on game day and they do their best to keep you there or there abouts, and spend money to the benefit of the club. This is by no means unusual. Yankee Stadium is of a similar nature - rough area that you wouldn't normally go to but both have an advantage over CP - decent transport links. Even smaller clubs of all different sports have decent stadiums in rougher areas but with GOOD transport links. This, to my mind is why CP and the surrounding area will struggle to attract any decent inward investment. I'm not sure that the M74 extension will assist this either.
I agree wholeheartedly that the club needs to generate income from other sources, but typically, they try to do things on the cheap, whilst charging us top whack to part-take of their low cost schemes.
On a similar topic, I'm sure I heard/read somewhere that the thinking at CP is to run the number of season tickets down to around the 50,000 mark, increase the numbers on waiting lists and increase the number of match-day tickets available to people who would "enjoy the Celtic experience" more - ie buy more pies/scarfs/programmes as they only manage to get to CP once a season! Possibly the cynic in me talking there...
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Hows about a Buckfast stand in the bus park, now surely that would generate some sort of stream.......
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cambuslangisareality
I agree that we should think long-term if we can't escape SPL drudgery and increase our income but concede things domestically?
Come on,I truly believe a young team of talented players could challenge and beat the mob across the city.I rate them that badly.Any team who plays a bit of passing football has the beating of them.That's why we've struggled against them this season,we haven't played any.
BankieBhoy
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Interesting subject Paul, reminded me of a documentry I seen about thirty years ago, yes 30, about BSC Hertha Berlin, they were at that time not in the Bundesliga and may even have been lower than the 2nd league, anyway the documentry was all about how BSC Hertha had survived this fall to the lower divisions because of their support (family team etc.), and the faciliies made available too and used by, the support.
The club had Tennis, Squash, Gym, football pitches etc. all for the fans, who were of course all club members, the figure that stuck in my head was they had 1907 registered football players, that's right one thousand zero seven football playing members, they even had their own leagues, everbody played in BSC strips and so on, and this was just the football part.
All this part of or adjacent to the stadium,
Maybe someone up there should go have a look.
Of course the Germans have what should be normal for everbody, oustanding public transport !
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Could Celtic not buy land around the stadium as it currently exist, re - house the locals withinn a new development, add some shops, bars etc add a multi storey carpark tarmac a bus park I.E Celtic can use its own brand to improve the local area itself.
Daydream Believer..............
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Paulw88,
My post was written round about the initial announcement of this "facility". My point was that it was nonsensical to try and charge mini season ticket prices to get access to a bar - why don't they simply make beer etc available at the bovril stands and encourage people to get to the ground as early as possible. As I remember my old sparring partner NeilR accused me of a lack of ambition and that it was "a choice" of the supporters to pay the astronomical entrance fee.
Your experience backs how I imagined it would turn out (sadly). I simply won't pay that money to have the privelage to buy a beer - but Celtic are missing out on a massive opportunity - god bless the board.
Truth is its an exercise in exploitation - but most of us go for beers before games - its in our interest to give the profit to Celtic - if only they would stop taking the piss eh?
Anyone want to defend the board here? Thought not.
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Negative Anon
I think you are right on this one.The only reason for charging £8 per game to access a bar is to ensure the rank and file supporters can't afford to access it.Whether this is indicative of their overall disregard for the "ordinary" Celtic fan would be a matter of some debate among us all.
The introduction of alcohol back into grounds in this country I do not think would necessarily be a bad thing.Anyone wanting to get drunk can do so before the game anyway so what difference would it make if you could have a pint inside?
On the positive side,just think how much better some of the crap masquerading as football we have watched this year could have looked if you could have bought a few beers to dull the pain!!! Mind numbing football = Increased beer sales!!
BankieBhoy
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BankieBhoy has a point on the beer front!
As for the main point of non match day income Paul is 100% correct. The problem is two fold: the board is widely known to be unambitious to say the least and the Celtic faithful would more than likely be too stuborn to move stadia.
I for one do not understand why Celtic make minimum income from outside matchday football when we have one of the biggest worldwide supports in football. Surely the board should be better utilizing streams of income from the USA moreover than a few friendlies every summer. On relocation of CP I doubt the majority of the Celtic support would be in favour. Although it is important to remember that we once moved away from the Jungle to the more modern CP. I am not old enough to remember these days so consider CP to be the home of Celtic and would be sad for it to move (even if it were just down the road). However Celtic FC is bigger and more important than a mere location, wherever the green & white hoops run out onto a grass pitch will become our home - no matter where that may be!
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