 Monday, April 04, 2005
No harm in booing is there?
I want to see Celtic spend a lot of money this summer, and as my article from Friday points out, there will be money to spend come the summer. Whether or not the money will be spent is an altogether different question.
Celtic gave Martin O’Neill the vast majority of his five year budget in 2000 and 2001. Though I might be wrong, and I am open to persuasion on this one, I would like to see them do the same again – present Martin with more than just with one year’s budget in the summer.
Allow him to significantly strengthen the team by spending three or four year’s worth of budget.
Anyone else agree with me? Anyone else want to see Celtic spend big in the summer?
I type away on this subject under the impression that most Celtic fans would like to see a big spend this summer. Why therefore, is the man who authorised this splurge in 2000 and 2001 booed when he takes to the field?
As we all know, Brian Quinn’s board authorised Martin O’Neill to spend so much money in his first two summers that Celtic have made a loss every subsequent year.
Problem is, it has been almost four years since we last spent big, and there has been little money available since then. Add a hostile media looking for an opportunity to sell some adverts or raise ratings and you have the recipe for a protracted siege on Celtic.
If you were Brian Quinn, what would you do now? Same again? A couple of years of relative harmony followed by being booed every time you walk onto the field to make a presentation to a visitor?
Or would you play it safe? Tell Martin he can have a few million each and every season, safe in the knowledge that you will be outspending Rangers and no-one will be able to point the finger at you?
Hard one isn’t it?
What concerns me is that this may influence what happens next at Celtic Park. If we want the board to present Martin O’Neill with a sizeable transfer budget along the lines of what he got in 2000, we need to accept that there will be some years with little or no spend to follow.
If we do not give the board a clear message that we will back a repeat of the last financial plan, we will surely jeopardise a large spend along the lines of what I know is available to the club in the summer.
Put it another way, if we send a clear message that we are not happy with the last financial plan we might just get what we are asking for, a small consistent spend every year.
You can just picture the conversation:
“Brian, I need to spend big if you want me to reach the next stage of the Champions League.”
“All fine and well Martin, but if I give you several years budget right now it’s me, not you, that will get booed every time I introduce a visitor in the years that follow and I can do without that”.
It takes a strong constitution to accept the bad-guy role year after year from your own ‘supporters’. How easy it would be if everyone who wanted to see a big spend spoke in a clear voice, ‘Spend the money now and we will accept a couple of years of low spend.’
Part of me is happy that it is someone on the board who is getting this treatment, can you imagine the problems if it was someone in the dug-out, or on the field. I could go further and say that we are getting good value for money, paying Quinn £15,000 per year to be the fall guy.
Mind you, the booing did not stop at Quinn did it? McGeady got enough ‘feedback’ on a few stray passes that he became less evident as the game wore on, and Craig Bellamy will now know what it is like when a team is booed from the field by their own in Glasgow.
Bellamy is a man who has said “this place feels right”. I wonder how it feels to him this morning.
Remember when we used to laugh at the other lot for booing their own? ‘We are Celtic supporters, faithful through and through”. Most of us still are; however as we are all learning, Celtic supporters do not speak with a homogenous voice, and some are happy to boo their own.
The media sure did love it on Saturday didn’t they? I bet they were laughing all the way to Fir Park. Another job well done.
Ever wonder if anyone at Celtic can spell PR?
139 Comments:
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Paul, can you clrify what you mean by your last point?
Another great article. I know we are all frustrated at times but booing discusts me.
If you have nothing good to say, say nothing. Same applies to booing.
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I was disgusted by the booing directed towards Brian Quinn on Saturday. I think the board are doing a great job under tough financial conditions.
There is a time and a place for such an outcry- and the middle of a presentation to our Spanish friends is not the correct time or place.
These people should be ashamed of themselves.
kealjo
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That booing business on saturday was a joke. There's a new breed of fan at parkhead nowadays. O'Neill should come out & slate these neds in Tracksuits & sovereign rings. I remember Fergus McCann getting booed as we unfurled the championship flag & that was a horrible thing to witness. It's the same folk who sit with their arms folded & expect us to hump European teams at parkhead. They really need educated on so many fronts. Remember Neil Lennon getting booed for keeping possession against Villareal - that was another downer. I wasn't Fergus McCann's biggest fan or Brian Quinn for that matter, but i have an appreciation of the job they try to do in a horrendous financial climate. I mean have these clowns not seen what's happened to Leeds, Fiorentina and now Borrusia Dortmund.
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Martybhoy, I can congratulate the club on how they have run things over the recent past, but blaming the media on public perception is not a valid excuse. Celtic needs to win the PR war.
Think about this: how good is the message, and how badly is it communicated?
Publishing the facts in accounts, which few people understand is not enough. That few people understand amortisation is not a valid excuse, either.
Most football fans will never have heard of the word amortisation a few years ago. Celtic should be out there talking to their public about it and explaining what is going on. That they are not doing this effectively enough only leaves a vacuum for the media to fill.
This is Celtic’s fault.
One more point, I will absolve the Celtic media people from this problem, as they clearly work to a remit. The fix needs to come from the top.
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If the board does make massive money available in the next year those who booed will say it was do to them, (not as has been stated on these pages anything to do with the spending cycle)they are in a no loose situation, whereas the board might be in a no win one.
It hurts me when I see a Celtic Minded person being booed - who now would boo Fergus McCann?
Does Mr Quinn not have to step down soon?
On another point I remember win Jesen say that with 3 games left in the league that it was now a 3 game league-so we have a 7 game season before us. Also he said at that point he could not win the last game only the next - so we have to get behind Celtic players management and board as the alternative is ...
P.S The Villarreal day was excellent praise to all concerned on both sides.
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I totally agree that booing your own players does no good whatsoever. However a chairman/chief exec getting abuse is hardly front page news is it? If Brian Quinn is weak minded enough to base our club's financial policy according to how many boos he gets then we're in real bother. Going by this logic do you believe that if Quinn been given a standing ovation he would go back to his seat thinking 'that's it, £20 million summer spend it is!'?
JF
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First time post but i am a regular reader to this excellent site.
I was getting a pie and Boril when Quinn was booed at half time, and i do agree with Paul that this was poor and plays into the media's hands but i can also quite understand this reaction.
Judging from recent quotes from O'Neil on the BBC web site, he has no idea as to what he has available to spend for next season and this is 2 months from the seasons end! How can MO'N identify future targets if this is the case? Surely this is an appaling situation. With this in mind it's not surpising MO'N has focused on resigning players.
This site regularly talks about a large kitty being made available in the summer, personally i won't hold my breath and fully expect Bellamy to walk away from Celtic Park after the usual media circus and pussy footing from Quinn and friends.
Quinns prudance may excite some people but don't expect 60,000 to give the man a standing ovation after 45 mins of Barnes era football as we were trated to against Hearts. The current team is badly in need of investment in all positions. If we haven't the money to do this then i would preffer that we could face up to the situation and start selling some assets to generate funds.
I digress but is it just me who thinks Hartson is vastly overated and his lack of movement causes the whole squad problems in creating opportunities? His ratio of chances to goals hardly puts him into the "leathal" bracket either! If we could sell him to secure Bellamy then I would see this an excellent piece of buisness.
Martybhoy, if we all kept a dignified silence as you advocate the Kelly's could have been coming on at half time not Mr Quinn!
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Booing is the only medium left for the fans to get the message across to Quinn and co.
Every letter or email that is written and sent is ignored, the major shareholder leaves the AGM early then doesnt turn up.
The board constantly feed the support negative spin about being skint, but they constantly expect us to dig deep and help fund the debt removal.
A saturation point will be reached soon and then Quinn and co will have more than booing to worry about!!!
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As it is specifically relevant to this thread I will re-post the second half of my post from the previous thread. Sorry if you've already seen this post.
It read:
However, in spite of all that [the defeat to Hearts] I am still shocked to read all the damning criticism of OUR players, and of the booing of Brian Quinn. Our new friends from Villarreal were over for their much publicised trip to the home of the supposed GFITW, and they witness our fans booing our own! What do you think they made of THAT!?
And hey, we lost a game. Shit happens. Let's get over it, learn from it, put it behind us and back the team as they continue to challenge for the title probably right to the wire.
Isn't it a measure of how far we have come in recent years that every defeat is treated as though it's the end of the world!?
We are Celtic supporters (faithful through and through), and we are therefore supposed to SUPPORT the team and the players (and the management!), through thick and thin, through the highs and the lows. The players need that support most of all when things are not going to plan.
When they are winning 6-0 they can get by on the feel-good factor. But when they are having a nightmare they need us to lift them and spur them on, NOT to berate them for every little (or even large) indiscretion. This only serves to undermine their confidence and accentuate the crisis... they ARE only human after all, even if they are grossly overpaid like ALL top level professional footballers.
We all know that major changes are required to move the team and the club forward. MON has publicly stated that he expects a number of new faces in and others to leave the club. The board have indicated that funds will be made available, particularly to secure the permanent signing of Bellamy, IF he wants to stay - and wil the fans' performance yesterday really have improved the chances of him wanting to stay?
So let's trust these guys to do their jobs and sort it out. We know who needs to go, and so I'm sure do the guys who make the decisions. They don't want to see tens of thousands of pounds being spent every week on players who do not have a part to play. They want to see this money freed up to bring in fresh talent and give the club fresh impetus to move onwards and upwards.
Let's SUPPORT the whole club in their efforts, through and through.
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I agree with Vargasshampoo that MON should blast the people (I refuse to call them supporters) who continually get on player's backs.They booed the players at half time just as they did against Dundee a few weeks ago.They pick on individuals - Agathe,Thompson and as you mentioned it may now even be McGeady who will be on the receiving end of their "support". Celtic supporters like to think of ourselves as something special,different from your normal football supporter.I believe that this is part of the reason(only a small part) why so many players who were expected to move on from Celtic have stayed.Larsson being the most obvious in recent years. I don't think Bellamy had any intention of staying long term when he first came on loan but in that short time he has realised that there is something special about Celtic although it won't guarantee him staying.Unfortunately he probably realised this at away games only.
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If Quinn was going to sanction a large splash of cash he would have announced it by now, and MON would know what budget he has.
All he does is make negative comments to continually trample down our expectations year on year.
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After a bus breakdown in the picturesque surroundings of Perthshire the heavens above conspired even more & removed all knowledge from the Celtic team on how to win a football match. (Un)fortunately the lost time only cost us a few beers & not the match itself. Collective responsibility for me on Saturday, players, manager, board & fans…….We are constantly told we have great young players so when 2 or 3 first teamers are fatigued or injured, can ANY of them not stand in for 1 game? Martin has got to start trusting his entire squad or something is badly wrong. Young Marshall has been a nervous wreck after the manager publicly criticised him earlier in the season, not the best of moves. Maybe the youngsters are all being kept for the Under – 21 title thus giving our beloved chairman something to brag about come his next accounts statement.
Ah, now onto B.Q. now while I don’t send him a birthday card & similarly I wouldn’t have crossed a busy London Rd to fetch Mr McCann's bunnet had it blown off on an extremely windy day, turning against our own on our own patch will gain & solve nothing. Now BQ could have done no worse than got our Paul to write his press statements, the accounts were not that bad but yet all we get is negatively thrown at us. Yes his PR/supporters relationship is rubbish but booing is not the answer.
Now onto the fans, 4 minutes of added time is actually enough to save a game (granted not playing like we did) but it would be nice if people could just hang around a little longer. Come on boys & girls we’re in a title run-in here – get behind the team or dear old Delia will be paying us half-time visit…….
Ps. Angus McSheepshagger, not sure this town is big enough……etc
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Paul, thanks I just wasn't sure what you meant. Good point though well made.
CM75 - Your nit picking but point taken, I'm sure you get my drift. "Faithful through and through" never forget that ;-)
Gab - MON will have a rough idea of budget for next year. However, would you rather pay £4M or £7M to Newcastle? Thats the cost of not playing tha game.
Let's face it not much has changed over the weekend. Win at Ibrox and win the league. They still have to play hearts again too.
The worst part was just as the score came through a hun passed me (in the middle of London). Bummer.
Hail Hail
Martybhoy
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Unfortunately there is always a minority in any large group who blemish the reputation of the majority. But as humans we also tend to be inherently hostile and to go on the defensive before being positive and demonstrably constructive.
In Seville I was the only Celtic fan in my section of the ground who stood, scarf aloft, singing YNWA as Porto were presented with their trophy. Far too many "supporters" were too busy booing and jeering at the Porto players to realise that: (a) OUR players were in their greatest ever need of our support at that precise moment; and (b) this showed us up in a very bad light to the millions watching on TV around the world... indeed the commentator remarked that it was a shame that failure couldn't be accepted graciously! Imagine what an awe-inspiring and emotional spectacle it would have been if 2/3rds of the stadium had stood as one, scarves aloft and in full voice, hailing their team even in defeat!
Let's all show the world over the next few weeks that we ARE still TGFITW. Cut out the open displays of back biting and negativity and urge the team on to triumph. If we win our remaining 7 league games we will be Champions - and we managed to win 25 in a row last season, so it's certainly possible.
We also have just 8 or 9 more games to convince Craig Bellamy that he would be mad not to join us permanently.
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Paul, once again you have hit the nail on the head. My reaction those booing was initially one of disgust. The interimn results seem pretty healthy, the club is being run on good lines, but as to the future etc. we are reduced to guessing how things are going or relying on financially articulate commentators like yourself to make sense of it.
Why the need to second guess. Where is the harm in the Board laying out some sort of a strategy which we can understand.
If any other company kept its shareholders and customers in the dark as we are they would be brought to account.
Of course you don't go into a negotation telling the other guy how much you have in your pocket, but neither do you keep pleading poverty when clearly we are not broke.
Part of the problem is the expectations which were set in MoN's 1st season or so. If that was going to be it for 5 years, then tell us that, manage our expectations, but also allow us to see beyond the 5 years.
Many supporters feel they are being fleeced - they don't understand the economics of running a football club, and frankly this Board don't help us in anyway to improve our understanding.
I didn't boo Brain Quinn, and I never will, but I can increasingly see why others may choose to do this.
Treat us like grown ups and talk to us. Share your vision. If you don't tell us what it is, then we have a right to assume you don't have one.
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While booing is not at the cutting edge of political debate just exactly how are supporters meant to raise their concerns? Perhaps if the Board were to articulate their spending plans as well as Paul does then maybe fans would be more understanding.
The press we can assume by and large will take great delight in putting whatever we do in a negative light. Therefore, if that medium is the only source of information for the vast majority of fans is it any surprise that Quinn and the Board are demonised?
It has to be said that our PR is shocking. I have never heard Quinn say anything positive and he always seems to be the one "managing expectations", usually downwards.
The reaction on Saturday wasn't I believe down to the fact that we were 2-0 down it was a culmination of a growing resentment in the support (and no they're not all neds) regarding the lack of investment in the team since Seville. The Board are an easy target but Martin O'Neill is also culpable in the demise of the team over the last 12 months.
We all laughed at the deadwood that McLeish initially signed but at the very least you can say that he quickly got shot of them. Whereas we had several of ours warming on the bench on Saturday.
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Booing is a legitimate way of the paying punter expressing his/her's feelings.
It also "influences" those on the receiving end. So if TGFITW want to motivate our team to play better, should we all boo them?
Or would showing them that the 12th man will lift them in a (very) off day work better. It's hardly their fault that the player personnel situation is in tough shape.
We are such a fickle lot. When we beat RFC and win the league we will be the TGFITW again, will we not?
We cant have it both ways. If we say we are the most faithfull fans in the world we need to deliver in bad times, not just good.
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Ok, here's my take on it...
I am genuinely astonished at the fans reaction sometimes. The club has been backed to the hilt by the Board - net >30 million spent on transfers since MON arrived.
Compare that with Eck's budget net <5 million...
How come we are struggling to beat their team?
Our wages are massive compared to every club in the SPL.
The truth is that MON had an amazing season when he first joined breaking Advocaat and Rangers.
The following season he built on that and then we had Seville (though this buttered over some cracks in the squad at the time) - remember we didn't actually win anything that season. Last season victory only after Rangers sold out their manager by selling off their team.
Since then I am personally convinced he has been a mixed blessing. I am not convinced his mind is fully on the job.
Reports come out of trips to London regularly midweek. I for one prefer a manager who is paid 2million to base himself at the club who pays his wages. He did not know about the Man City rumour till he found out on the plane back up to Glasgow from London... Thanks for keeping your finger on the pulse Martin.
He signed a poor Juninho who could not get in the Middlesborough first team... A poor Camara on the back of a run of a good five games.
Ah but the fans say he had no money to spend... Those 2 alone cost 3 million.
He resigned Bobo - struggling for form and we could have sold him for 5 million? - Hartson - should have been forced to diet by now! He is simply unfit - Thompson/Sutton - wrong age so struggling with form and injuries respectively.
All on wages which are absurd. No lessons learnt from Lambert/Boyd.
We pay Premiership wages and should ask questions why a number of those players can't actually pass or header the ball to their teammates.
Remember he wanted to sign Yorke if anyone reckons his judgement is currently sound?
He has already stated he does not like to sign players he has not personally seen... How many times has he travelled abroad? We all watch the Premiership - seems to me that's all he does.
Lets not kid ourselves at the moment Celtic are rubbish to watch...
I expect to be flamed but I think it's time people started to think there are alternatives to the Blessed Martin...
M
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You hit the nail on the head, Martybhoy. Whether we have £10, £20 or £30m to spend, you don't announce it to everyman and his dog. When you go to buy a new car you don't walk in to the garage, march up to the salesman and say "I've got 7 grand to spend, what do you have?" Those who say the board should announce detailed spending plans are naive to say the least.
All the best.
GM
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Vargas shampoo , you cannot say everyone who boos is a ned , Whether you except it or not half the crowd seemed to boo on sat and a majority of the crowd when fergus unfurled the flag.
Back to football it was the worst performance i have seen from celtic in along time their was no fight from the team and they jus seemed to except defeat . things need to chance quick to make it two in a row .
p.s is beattie injured again ?
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You echoed my sentiments entirely CanajunBhoy. Just imagine if the fans of Hearts, Hibs, Dundee, Dundee United, Aberdeen, ICT, Motherwell, Kilmarnock, Livingston and Dunfermline took the same attitude every time their teams were up against it. There would be a hell of a lot of booing going on around Scotland every weekend!
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"Faithful through and through"
What does this mean really? I'm not it picking Marty but that sound bite gets us nowhere.
Do you support your team or PLC when you've paid your silver at the turnstile, bought your shares/jersy/bovril (delete as applicable) and it appears to being run into the ground as in the 80's and early ninties?
I believe it means spoorting the team for 94 mins from your allocated seat, encouraging the players and most importantly speaking out if things aren't going right.
As far as i'm concerned if you've paid for your ticket and stay to the end then aspire to future success then fair enough. Reverence to a paid administrator doesn't come into it.
As with other posts I don't believe Quinn is sitting on a pot of gold and or why would he talk things down in the press.
O'Neill said "I might not know the exact amount but I assume that if some players are released, money will be made available. Don't ask me the amount of money." Now after reading that i'm not going to slag off anyone who got frustrated and booed after paying for the pleasure.
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So what do you all think of the news on Lambo then?
Last week we have the Dundee hierarchy whinging about the Celtic and Rangers youth coaching courses being held in Dundee (and elsewhere), claiming that they were stealing the young talent from the Dundee teams.
I'm awaiting his observations on how much Celtic have spent paying Paul Lambert's huge salary (and expenses?) while he's been gallivanting off to Germany to get his coaching qualifications, so that he can go and manage a team in Dundee!
I had naively assumed that Celtic had something lined up for him at CP. But then again, I don't know the facts of his situation re: remuneration and likely future jobs, only what our beloved media have reported.
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Paul just a couple off points :o) ...
1) There is a difference between this big spend and the last one... MON's contract.. back then it was more or less the length of the budget. Now it isn't. And there are a few big jobs down south that aren't guaranteed long term.
2)BQ's timing could have been a little better. I know that people will say it shouldn't happen to your own esp. at home but they are the professionals (supposedly) surely to god they should have known that when your 2 down at home to an inferior club, with there having been very little to shout about in 4 months and you are publicly stalling over the signing off the one thing that the fans were signing about then perhaps it was not the best idea.
3) You can go on about red tops, agenda's etc. But if you try to argue amortization an all but you can't teach an old dog new tricks.
All they see is a club regularly in the top 10-20 rich list who beller's apart haven't made a decent signing in what 3 years.
4) They must know of the paranoia of fans r.e. money going in and disappearing.
5) Fans look at it simply, hearts have a regular gate of what 10-12 thou thats a 1/5th of ours, when did they last play champs league football and get its money???? Yet their squad wasn't knackered. Come on it was Varga not Maldini who needed a replacement for a game.
6)FAO. Bobo and Varga, you dont have teh vision, confidence or ball skill to play a passing game out of defense under pressure, nor do you have the turn of pace, positioning, anticipation or guile to get yourselves out of trouble once you get into trouble SO STOP FECKIN DOIN' IT.
7) MON needs to decide now if Marshall is his no1 and tell him so, otherwise he'll never tell two guys who are a foot taller than him and have been playing pro football since before he done his 11+ what to do.
8) will someone please give bbj some bpm, nrg, lucozade sport and some banana's/oranges.
9) Could mon sort bowyer out for £1.5 - 2 million?? what about taylor from arsenal think his contract is more or less up.
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Monman, re: BBJ, I'm not sure that dieting is the answer!
I personally believe that a person's shape is largely genetically determined. I'm sure that BBJ's diet (like most other professional footballers') is quite tightly monitored and regulated by the club. I also suspect that his fitness levels are quite meticulously and scientifically measured on a regular basis. And just because you have a larger frame, or a propensity to carry more body fat than someone else, doesn't necessarily mean that you can't be as fit as them... Wayne Rooney for example is also regarded as overweight, but he is still tremendously mobile and hard working.
If BBJ is not fit enough then MON should not pick him until he is. If it is simply laziness or lack of positional awareness then MON should drop him. Ultimately, if BBJ doesn't improve this part of his play then MON can, and should get rid. There are other players in the squad who are fit enough, and who do put in the effort.
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I'll repeat what I said on the other thread:
I simply do not accept that protesting and booing at the chairman makes me any less of a supporter. All this "you are not a real supporter" line is tripe.
No-one should ever follow anyone or anything blindly. What I support at Celtic is the crowd. We are there for each other - noone else cares about the club like we do (whether they are the board, the players or MON).
I remember when we lost the three amigos and the mood of the crowd was "never again will we hero worship" - then along came Henrick and the rest is history.
It is not moronic, idiotic, stupid etc to protest and complain. Far from it - the crowd knows something is wrong - we've known it from the start of this season. I suspect even those of you who support this current board know it too.
Its painful watching the demise of something we enjoyed so much. But it's now clear it is the demise. My target is the board because they refused to invest. Paul has argued very eloquently that they had no choice due to financial constraints.I disagree- they have had the opportiunity but have not done so. I have also explained what I think they are doing.
At the very least they have shown a lack of leadership and ambition. At the very worst they are looking after only themselves. Either way is not acceptable.
So I will boo and shout and complain until we either get a fair deal or they move on.
As for the "what will others think" mentality. I've already said that it doesn't matter with the press. My god the Daily Record had us in crises after losing friendlies! Who cares. As for the Villareal fans - they will see the same passion that they witnesses - this time anger at a board presiding lazily over the demise of a great team. If we didn't boo I think they would wonder why.
You might not agree but the fans are furious at the boards inaction. The complaints will grow louder and louder and if it ends in the car park then so be it. We have every right to do so - it is not disloyal or stupid - quite the reverse - it is the sign of an intelligent, active and questionning support.
Quinn would prefer us to be turnstyle fodder - well sorry Brian - you picked the wrong club.
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I think a lot of Celtic supporters are furious that we seem to be the only club in Europe with a major shareholder worth almost £1billion who isn't prepared to put some cash in to help the club. If we controlled the club ourselves I wouldn't mind if there wasn't the cash to spend majorly, but to be used as the plaything of a billionaire when we get nothing out of it is infuriating. The booing for Quinn was because he is seen as Dermot Desmond's spokesman, and a lot of us have had enough of DD's stinginess. He should put some cash in, turn up at the odd AGM to listen to supporters and stop patronising us with his guff about how much he loves our club.
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CM75 - I'm not suggesting that you revere anyone. To me "Faithful through and through" is exactly what you said "supporting the team for 94 mins from your allocated seat, encouraging the players and most importantly speaking out if things aren't going right". However, booing only makes us look stupid, plays into the hands of the media and achieves next to nothing. I advocate a route more akin to Paul - get the club to speak to us and explain in understandable terms how we are doing. Ever see the "News for Neds" in Chewin the Fat? - that kind approach would work for me.
Please explain to me how our club "appears to being run into the ground as in the 80's and early ninties?" Have you read the interims? In what is a pretty restricted trading environment were actually doing pretty well. What do you mean? Yes, the manager has made some poor decisions. Yes, the board don't do themselves any favours on the PR front but booing will never achieve anything positive, especially when the team are actually playing (although in this instance they were not).
As for your final point I'll say it once again, how much do you want to pay for Bellamy? £4M or £7M. Show your cards, as you suggest and we pay £7M. I actually prefer the approach burghcelt suggests. Only problem there is you need a PR Dept!
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Well my apprehension on Saturday morning that Hearts at home was a potential banana skin after the international lay off was proved correct. Unsure why I felt this way but it was mainly down to the fact that more and more of our players seem to be picking up niggling injuries but will be ok to play and the travelling most of our players had to endure. How can you prepare for a game when most of the 1st team arrived back on Friday? And then most of them injured in some form. No excuse though there was still enough in the locker to beat Hearts. Even though I was apprehensive I assumed like most that the thought of going 5 clear would be enough to see us through. Celtic were terrible from the 1st minute to the last and gave up with half hour left, they had nothing left to give and just accepted the inevitable. The effort to get back into the game was there for an hour but the skill guile and pace were sadly lacking to make the comeback a reality.
The defence well there is no case for defence, schoolboy errors from 3 highly paid players. When I was watching Miller out muscling and out manovering, impressively I may add, Varga and Balde I found it quite hard to believe that this guy couldn’t get a game for Bristol City. Bristol City not Juve or Barca but Bristol City.
Varga had his worst game in the Hoops which itself is quite a feat as he has had a few shockers but IMO it is no coincidence that Varga’s loss of form has came straight after he missed the Inverness game injured. Henzcho looked uncomfortable with the pace of Miller, Burchill and the pace of the game in general and his performance does not bode well for his future at Celtic Park. Willing to give him a second chance as he may learn from the experience but if he keeps on making the same mistakes then you have to go. What was clearer to me was the defence was unbalanced without Laursen and that’s a statement I never thought I would write.
The young team on show Marshall again failed to impress unlike Gordon up the other end who was confident and show maturity that Marshall seems to be lacking, McGeady started trying to hard after a few misplaced passes and again reminded you that he is only 18, Wallace instant chance to change the course of the game and missed but from where I was Gordon made life difficult for him but coming out quickly and decisively. Other than that Ross huffed and puffed along with the rest of them and wee Maloney was never destined to be the saviour as the team had given up by the time he came on.
As I have already mentioned Lee Miller had a great game only 21 big strong has pace good first touch caused bother all day wonder if BBJ was watching his performance and wondered why he has stopped doing it.
Fortress Celtic Park is no more teams are confident coming to Celtic Park now and getting a result, this is the mainly due to the post Larsson confidence that the opposition have when they play us. If Bellamy had been here from the start of the season and we had handed out a few doings to teams that fear would still be there. For me we are still paying the price for to many dodgy 1-0 victories.
Will we improve for next week, well we need to, and I think we will but I would have rather had got the three points on Saturday.
Kilo O’Neal
Ps on the subject of the booing i was ashamed its all there in black and white have a look at the accounts and that tells you the truth
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Well my apprehension on Saturday morning that Hearts at home was a potential banana skin after the international lay off was proved correct. Unsure why I felt this way but it was mainly down to the fact that more and more of our players seem to be picking up niggling injuries but will be ok to play and the travelling most of our players had to endure. How can you prepare for a game when most of the 1st team arrived back on Friday? And then most of them injured in some form. No excuse though there was still enough in the locker to beat Hearts. Even though I was apprehensive I assumed like most that the thought of going 5 clear would be enough to see us through. Celtic were terrible from the 1st minute to the last and gave up with half hour left, they had nothing left to give and just accepted the inevitable. The effort to get back into the game was there for an hour but the skill guile and pace were sadly lacking to make the comeback a reality.
The defence well there is no case for defence, schoolboy errors from 3 highly paid players. When I was watching Miller out muscling and out manovering, impressively I may add, Varga and Balde I found it quite hard to believe that this guy couldn’t get a game for Bristol City. Bristol City not Juve or Barca but Bristol City.
Varga had his worst game in the Hoops which itself is quite a feat as he has had a few shockers but IMO it is no coincidence that Varga’s loss of form has came straight after he missed the Inverness game injured. Henzcho looked uncomfortable with the pace of Miller, Burchill and the pace of the game in general and his performance does not bode well for his future at Celtic Park. Willing to give him a second chance as he may learn from the experience but if he keeps on making the same mistakes then you have to go. What was clearer to me was the defence was unbalanced without Laursen and that’s a statement I never thought I would write.
The young team on show Marshall again failed to impress unlike Gordon up the other end who was confident and show maturity that Marshall seems to be lacking, McGeady started trying to hard after a few misplaced passes and again reminded you that he is only 18, Wallace instant chance to change the course of the game and missed but from where I was Gordon made life difficult for him but coming out quickly and decisively. Other than that Ross huffed and puffed along with the rest of them and wee Maloney was never destined to be the saviour as the team had given up by the time he came on.
As I have already mentioned Lee Miller had a great game only 21 big strong has pace good first touch caused bother all day wonder if BBJ was watching his performance and wondered why he has stopped doing it.
Fortress Celtic Park is no more teams are confident coming to Celtic Park now and getting a result, this is the mainly due to the post Larsson confidence that the opposition have when they play us. If Bellamy had been here from the start of the season and we had handed out a few doings to teams that fear would still be there. For me we are still paying the price for to many dodgy 1-0 victories.
Will we improve for next week, well we need to, and I think we will but I would have rather had got the three points on Saturday.
Kilo O’Neal
Ps on the subject of the booing i was ashamed its all there in black and white have a look at the accounts and that tells you the truth
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Bigchipsuk,
I've got to disagree. It's an absolute disgrace that a 'professional athlete' can get way with being as fat as he clearly is. His build is large but his thighs are quite clearly fat....
I'm sure that he has muscles in there but they are being weighed under by the pies.
Celtic employ a nutritionist and a fitness coach... He is ignoring them. He should be forced on to a treadmill until he sweats off the weight. Every day his weight should be checked to stop him cheating them.
M
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So there you are turning out for the school team or local boys club on a Saturday morning. You start the game brightly but a couple of hefty tackles form opposing defenders has an effect on your game. A couple of your passes go astray. Then some parents on the touchline start to get on your back. So you start concentrating on them more than your game. Next thing you know even your dad is giving you pelters. Abuse form one of your own. Imagine the effect a few thousand can have. The word support doesn’t figure.
Yes there is a time to boo, to get feelings across to the team/manager/board. That time is at the end of the game when there is nothing left to play for. Trouble is for those so called supporters - faithful through and through,, win , lose or draw - you’ve got to be at the game ‘til the final whistle to do that. Maybe that’s why they choose to give the players pelters during a match. They’ve got to fit it in before their train leaves.
On BQ, yes his PR could be better, but he doesn’t pick the team. He doesn’t decide on the tactics, and he didn’t sign some of the dross that makes up the first team squad.
As others have said get this defeat and the clubs finances (as brilliantly explained by Paul) in perspective. What do these people want? This board to walk away and be replaced by a Murray like figure.
Finally, one of the dictionary definitions of support:
‘enable to last out; give strength to; encourage.’
A good number in the crowd on Saturday should have a hard think about why they turn up at Celtic Park. Are they supporters or simply spectators?
Oh and NegAnon the only tripe on this site usually comes from you. So you turn up to support the crowd. Not the team then? Why bother at all? Why not just stay in the pub and collectively roar each other on for being such great fans. To quote you “My target is the board because they refused to invest”.
Do you even read anything else on this site? The day you actually give a well thought out counter argument to others, and some valid suggestions as to what the board should be doing will make a refreshing change from your usual rubbish.
Rob71
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Was I surprised at the booing of BQ no, was I surprised by the defeat to hearts no. Should BQ have been booed not at that moment no. There is a time and place for everything and the presentation from the villa real fans was not it. Should BQ be booed at any time yes, why because it is not the man himself but what he represents the board. Why should the board be booed because they failed in their duties to the supporters.
They failed to specutlate to accumulate from a position of strength ie seville. Would it really matter to the fans if our debt was 30 miilion as opposed to 17 would it?. Not if it had meant bringing in some qaulity players to bolster a sqaud although experienced clearly ageing. We had the world watching us we had the accolades even in defeat and we sat on our laurels. They have failed in their duty to keep the fans informed of what is going on at celtic park. They and I specifically target dermott desmond appear to have little or no interest in the fans feelings, it is becoming more as time goes on a situation of THEM and US.
Being a board member at celtic park is a privallege so what if desmond has underwritten shares his ratio of income to that of the punter who turns up day after day to watch the fare on offer is no greater. IT should be.
Why do people boo because they are unhappy, frustated at what is in front of them. Newcastle were booed of the park yet the onus will be on the 2 players fighting with each other not the booing that will be seen as justified.
Yet here in scotland it will be analysed pulled apart and thrown back at our club should we be surprised NO. We are not just supporters we as tommy burns put it are a people a people who are constantly degraded and attacked by the media and yes it is to do with faith. Those who think otherwise probably believe in the tooth fairy aswell.
I believe the booing although regretablle is necesary it vents the peoples frustation and keeps the board on its toes. The statement by lawell the next day confirms this.
If the board are not up to the taks or are not prepared to invest more of their own personal wealth then I say move on. Jim craig consistently states the why should dermott use his own money why because he is the top gun at celtic park and as such has the benefits and status such a position entails. Have u ever thought about interest free loans dermott why should we pay the interest to banks when you have more money than sense pay up or ship out.
Should MON be critised yes he should he has spent what ever monies has been made available. Reading that lambert wants to move into management brings it all home some people have had their snouts in the celtic trough for far too long, get rid.
I realise that MON had personall probs last year but he could have deputised he didnt and thats why we panicked with the wee man from brazil and camara.
Celtic is a legacy and if its not being run properly then yes the fans if they believe so have every right to BOO.
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Monman, if BBJ is as you suggest ignoring the instructions of the nutritionist and fitness coach, then he should be sold while we can still command a fee of some sort. We should not do the usual Celtic thing of hanging on to him until the final few months of his contract (in the meantime paying his not insubstantial wages for warming the bench) and getting nothing by way of a transfer fee.
I still bet you he'd outrun and outperform you (and me) over 90 minutes though!
8-)
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Rob71, hear hear!
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I remember being embarrassed when The Bunnett was roundly booed when unfurling the League flag. It stuck in my throat a bit what he eventually walked off with, but he did what it said on the tin. We wouldn’t be in the sound financial state we’re in if it wasn’t for him. Lovely big stadium an’ all that….
My throat’s getting’ congested here but what also sticks in it was yer man Bonkers Keevans and his, ‘What they need is someone like David Murray at the helm!’ Yeah, a man to take us to the brink and then perform a wee slight of hand to look like a saviour. How thick are these people? Or actually is it just what we should expect from ‘the other agenda following media?’
Agree with Kilo O’Neil it’s all there in the accounts. BQ and the board have my backing. Like everyone else I’d like to see slightly less prudence, but you, ‘Cannae spend whit’s no in yer pocket!’
Those who booed should reflect on this, I don’t want to go back to the bad old days, who does?
I don’t think the board are missing a trick in terms of other revenue streams, they’re just not spending on the ‘never, never’, wish I was as wise wi’ my money!
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Bigchipsuk,What you say about all the other teams in the SPL not having Booing going on at their own grounds,the difference is,these smaller teams work with very limited money and get their monies worth from the players,UNLIKE Celtic at times,certainly not this season anyway.As poster Monman says,they get premiership wages but some can't even pass a ball out of defence.Too much ball skill involved in the modern day Scottish game for the type of player we have at the momment to last much longer,another reason why the smaller teams can look just as good as Celtic or *angers on the park at times.
"Celtic & *angers are going back the way" the small teams are the only ones improving as every year passes.
Monman
Don't usually have the same opinions as your good self,but must agree what you are saying about MON (and other posters also).
BUT now is not the time,we can talk about all this AFTER we cheer on Celtic to another Premiership Flag.I think the board have got the message on how the fans feel.Celtic fans can smell a shyster a mile away,it's also good to keep them on their toes and on the right track.
Very unfortunate what happened in front of the VillaReal/Celtic fans but I'm sure they will understand how passionate we can be at times about the Club(right or wrong) once all is explained to them by others.I for one will be writing to the CSC in Spain a letter to join the CSC.What great people they must think we are,to start a CSC although they are VillaReal fans.We do touch the lives of many fans around the world,so we can't all be bad eh?.What other team can boast a Supporters Club in just about every city in Europe
"FOR IT'S A GRAND OLE
TEAM TO PLAY FOR"
Chin up BHOYS & GHRILS,Be positive,it all flows onto the pitch,the players will feel it,just like the bad vibes they must be picking up just now (Granny where did you get these tablets?,)
Cabbage McFlabbergaster
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Anon 2.20
I agree about being wise with money. Maybe we should ask a former executive director at the Bank of England to become chairman. Oh that's right we already have. If it's a choice between The Mint and BQ, i'll take the St. Gerards old boy everytime.
Rob71
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Paul, do you know if the Villarreal Bhoys have a website or email address?
I for one would like to thank them for coming over at the weekend, and to reassure myself that they understood what went on at half time. I am worried that they thought the Celtic fans were booing the fact that the Celtic/Villarreal presentation was being made.
Will any CSC be reciprocating this visit, preferably after Villarreal have been knocked out of the UEFA Cup without exceeding Celtic's UEFA coefficient!
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Fortunately, I wasn't at Parkhead on Saturday. Playing badly is bad enough but rounding on BQ in front of the Villareal supporters makes me feel as disgusted as I was at those "supporters" who booed Fergus McCann as he unfurled the Flag. Obviously, far too many of them hearken to Bonkers Keevins and his ilk. By the way, that goes for those who constantly harangue Agathe (how we miss him!!). We may have played some rubbish this season but to blame the Board and the odd player is a nonsense. By the wya, I don't think we have any chance of offloading the likes of Hartson or Hedman or Varga just because they seem to have lost it. The transfer market doesn't work like that any more, if it ever did.
Parkheadcumsalford
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I don't know about you guys, maybe its different where you sit but i don't think mcgeady did get booed as such.
he got the reaction that most players get when the don't put the ball in, pass badly or lose it.
I know i muttered incoherently and it is possible that collective frustration comes across as booing sometimes. Sometimes you just cn't help getting excited. I didn't expect Saturday to be easy but i expected more than one chance on goal in the first half.
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• At 2:45 PM, Bigchipsuk said…
"Paul, do you know if the Villarreal Bhoys have a website or email address?"
I have put their website below, http://www.celticsubmari.com/
There are plans to go over so look out for information on the Huddle board http://www.thehuddleboard.com/
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I really can't understand the supporters whose only response is "the board should give Oneil more money". We are spending more than we make as is shown by all the loss that Celtic PLC makes, so can someone explains to me where this money that the board should give Oneil is coming from. Maybe they should print some somewhere in a dark corner at Parkhead.
The bottom line is that if we get beat by Real Madrid , AC Milan or the like then I can conceed that they have better players because they have more money to spend. If we get beat by any team in the SPL then lets not start happing about money to spend, We spend more money that any other team in the sPL including Rangers. John Hatson's wage in two weeks will probably pay for the entire Hearts team for 6 5 months. If we can't trash al the team in the sPL based on what we pay our players, either they are not giving 100% , or they are not god enough and are being overpayed. In iether case the problem lies with the team and not with money. Celtic against Motherwell, Hearts etc should be the same as AC Milan against my local pub team.
Now to my next point which I have mentioned before. We do not have a footballing team but seems to pay a lot of money for grafters. I do not think that Oniel can take us any further. This is not to knock O'Neil or the non availability of money. I still believe that O'Neil will always put out a defensive team on the park that is his natural tendency. If we give O'Neil £30 Mill he will come back with a host of Defensive midfielders a couple of tall bruisers fot the back line who naturally lack speed hence easily turned by nippy players. As for O'Neil going to MAN U, he has not got the experience for that and MAN U would not tollorate a defence team so no chance of the job being offerd to him.
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Thanks celticbhoy.
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Good on you Monman. There are a number of anomolies in the squaud MON has assembled.
GOALKEEPERS - foolishly sold Broto.
Now left with 3 who aren't up to scratch
DEFENCE - Balde is Paul McGugan in disguise
MIDFIELD - Lennon & Thompson have peaked. Neither player has serious competition for their places in the team
FORWARDS - Hartson looks as if he's been in Baird's Bar right up to about an hour before kick off
Others - Sylla, Fernandez, Valgaeren are all a sketch
I'm hoping that Kennedy can get back to decent form and Maloney gives us something else in Midfield. I don't think Bellamy is worth the quoted £5/6 million. I think a better option would be to go for Robbie Keane who would cost less in wages & the transfer fee.
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Good on you Monman. There are a number of anomolies in the squaud MON has assembled.
GOALKEEPERS - foolishly sold Broto.
Now left with 3 who aren't up to scratch
DEFENCE - Balde is Paul McGugan in disguise
MIDFIELD - Lennon & Thompson have peaked. Neither player has serious competition for their places in the team
FORWARDS - Hartson looks as if he's been in Baird's Bar right up to about an hour before kick off
Others - Sylla, Fernandez, Valgaeren are all a sketch
I'm hoping that Kennedy can get back to decent form and Maloney gives us something else in Midfield. I don't think Bellamy is worth the quoted £5/6 million. I think a better option would be to go for Robbie Keane who would cost less in wages & the transfer fee.
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Good on you Monman. There are a number of anomolies in the squaud MON has assembled.
GOALKEEPERS - foolishly sold Broto.
Now left with 3 who aren't up to scratch
DEFENCE - Balde is Paul McGugan in disguise
MIDFIELD - Lennon & Thompson have peaked. Neither player has serious competition for their places in the team
FORWARDS - Hartson looks as if he's been in Baird's Bar right up to about an hour before kick off
Others - Sylla, Fernandez, Valgaeren are all a sketch
I'm hoping that Kennedy can get back to decent form and Maloney gives us something else in Midfield. I don't think Bellamy is worth the quoted £5/6 million. I think a better option would be to go for Robbie Keane who would cost less in wages & the transfer fee.
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Varga, firstly - £3 in the tin big man your posts are good and your name even better but I don't need to see it 3 times!!!
Also we never sold Broto he just never took what was on offer when his loan deal ran out. Me thinks both parties are suffering from that one.
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For the past few games, I cannot remember the last time I seen any player chase down a ball when headered or cleared from defence. Bobo and varga were not great on saturday, but no one is taking responsibility to attack the loose ball. I would like to see the stats to see how often we give the ball away in that position. I dont expect accurate defensive headers and passes constantly but I do expect lennon, thompson, petrov to chase the loose ball or attack it in the air. I feel that were we once again lost the battle on saturday.
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another comment about Saturday-have you ever seen such lazy ballboys? The 2 behind the Lisbon Lions Stand must be the laziest out! One is growing so big he should join BBJ on a diet!! They sit so close together behind the goals it takes them ages to collect a ball (that is if they can be bothered)! In the second half Marshall was raging at them to get a move on. If anyone knows the person that picks them-they should get their finger out! Also ballboys should be placed wide of each goalpost. Remember the idea of ballboys is to return the ball into play as soon as possible-not just a free seat behind the goals!!
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Rob71, an excellent analysis of out times. Keep telling it, especially like it when people check things out before commenting – eve if it is a dictionary. I’ll put my headgear on before Neg Anon gets his reply in.
Anon’s from 1.40 & 2.00
DD is a wealthy man & could invest more, could of thoughts for you, though:
If he buys a couple of thousand more ordinary shares he will be required to make a takeover bid for the club, do any of us what that?
Maybe in emergency circumstances I would go for it, but until then I would prefer to remain a shareholder myself.
Also, spending after Seville was prohibited by the bank. We lost £13million that season, even though turnover reached record heights and the bank still said no.
Also, if you check the accounts there are interest free loans from anonymous sources.
Lots here which is not in the papers, though it is mostly in the accounts. There are no easy answers.
Bigchipsuk, congratulations on spelling Villarreal right (double ‘l’ double ‘r’).
Spacebhoy, agreed, McGeady didn’t get booed, however, he got the same as Lennon got that game against Boavista. I think it took a bit out of his confidence.
I mention it above as I think it deserved some debate. He is 18 years old and is still at an age where this kind of thing can push him back. It’ll be interesting to see how he plays on Sunday.
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Paul, you are not seriously suggesting that Quinn will "spit the dummy" and refuse to sanction the release of funds that you claim are available? Where does Dermot fit into this?
I cringed when some fans booed on Sat, but is this a heinous crime? As someone pointed out earlier, what other platform do fans get to voice their opinion? Email?
If it wasn't for such public disaproval, would Fergus have ultimately got control in March '94?
I'm not comparing then with now, but I'm sure BQ is a big boy and can handle it. He probably got a rougher ride at the BCCI inquiry.
Personally, if the chairman of OUR club can base major player investment on some crude show of dissent, then we are all knackered.
Quinn has been on the park several times in recent years. Why was he booed now? Could it be that Dr Gloom and Doom is not perceived to share the ambition of the fans at large? Is it all take, take take with this board? Buy this, Buy that tacky merchandise?
Can we see some planning, some strategy, some vision and some respect for the fans.
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Hi Bhoys
Haven't posted in ages but I have still kept up with the site and still very much like the debate and banter.
Saturday was a massive disappointment and unfortunately could eventually cost us the title and we only have ourselves to blame. There is no use singling out anyone as collectively I thought that the team was very poor on Saturday.
As for next season here's a question. Given Martin signing policy of late, do we trust him to spen between £10 an £20 million wisely?
Just thought I would ask the question.
I also thought the booing Brian Quinn was a disgrace
James
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Anon, 3.32pm...We're definitely not getting good value for dosh from BBJ if, as you say, he's earning in a fortnight what the whole Hearts team earn in nearly twelve & half years. No wonder he's ambling about, making Marlon Brando look like slimmer of the year.
OK, I'm at it, I know it was a typo. You're correct though, when you say we could just about take a defeat to a top European side. To an ordinary SPL side, it's utterly galling to say the least.
VargasShampoo, 3.57pm...Occasionally, I've quenched my thirst in Baird's an hour before kick-off, but so far I've only seen ex-players, not present ones, but yes, I see what you mean. Also, BROTO should have been kept.
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We lost £13m in the Seville (2002-03) season.
Could you give a rough breakdown on that Paul? off the top of my head I think income was about £60m, wages around £32m, £5m spent on Laursen, Hedman and Fernandez, could you explain the other £35m expenditure or should I go check the accounts?
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I was not at the match on Sat as I had to go down South, but I have no sympathy for BQ, where does all the money go?
For the season I calculate that the paying public,us season ticket holders and the other 6000 will have paid Celtic £32m in gate fees(I have used £450 as ave season book)
60000 buying bovril/pies etc
programmes at £2
Strips and other goodies in the shops
half time draw-where is the money from this/ supposedly going to the youth development and facilities..what facilities this must rake in at least £150000 a year going by the rule you cannot payout more than 50%
take the replay/live money at £60 a year for replay, celt |
