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Thanks Paul you work fast . I suppose we cant expect anything else from the sfa ( and they say we are the bigots ). Lets Stand Firm and silent as we go into a huddle take a look at your watches and count a minute dont let this be broken. spread word through supporters buses and friends as not everyone has access to the net . And who about goin into 'walk with me oh my lord , and the end of the minute '
let us pay respects
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It would be shameful if they didnt do anything they did it last night in chelsea match and apart from the odd couple of fools it was respected.
Good idea about the huddle then everyone should be silent.
RIP John Paul II
Another goalkeeper up in heaven
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The SFA are in discussion at the moment whether to hold a minute's silence or not & will make an announcement this afternoon. In the meantime if you feel as strongly as me then please email them:
info@scottishfa.co.uk
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This is rememberence of John Paul II not an anti-SFA/SPL stance.
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I must say I was impressed with the chelsea support during last nights minutes silence. Do people think if the sfa sanction one that the hearts supporters would do the same?.
There are stories going about that the sfa would fine celtic heavily if the players wore black arm bands with out them sanctioning it.
I believe if this is the case celtic should take them on let the team wear them refuse to pay the fine and have it argued in a court of law even the court of human rights if neccesary. Lets show them up for the bigots they really are.
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Would we be worried about a minute silence if "The Moderator of the General Assembly of The Church of Scotland" died? or if the head of The Church of England died?
Religion and football are, and should be, seperate issues.
Paul great site, love reading it.
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Mr Right if your point is taken should we then only have minutes silences for only footballing people?
I.e not for the monarchy , polititions ,disaters
1 in 5 people in scotland are RC so why should we not be allowed to pay or respects to our leader ( yes we should also do it in chapels ) but if we are expected to be silent for things we dont necessarly believe as a mark of respect surely it should be the same the other way around
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Mr Right (?)12.18pm... The people you mention above are not the world leader that the late pope was. They could live until they were a hundred, and never even come close.
You are correct in saying that football and religion shouldn't mix.
However, this man was spiritual leader to a billion catholics, and revered amongst Celtic's followers, and again I'll say, a world leader. Therefore it's only fitting some mark of respect be shown.
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This lack of respect for the passing of the Pope is 'Scotland's Secret Shame'. The media won't touch upon it as it goes against their 2 sides of the same coin agenda.
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MARK OF RESPECT AT SEMI-FINALS Thursday, 07 Apr 2005
The Scottish FA Board, at its meeting this morning, has decided that
there will be a minute's silence before the Tennent's
Scottish Cup
semi-finals, as an appropriate mark of respect to His Holiness Pope
John Paul II, who died last Saturday.
The two matches this weekend, both at Hampden Park in Glasgow, are
Dundee United v Hibernian on Saturday and Heart of Midlothian v
Celtic on Sunday.
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Notice they won't force the HUNS to observe the minutes silence and
where only pressured into it after Celtic and CSA issued statements
calling for a minutes silence to be observed.
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SFA have just announced there will be a minute's silence at all games this weekend. I wonder if that will include the game at Ibrox next Tuesday???
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Why are we doing this? not everyone agrees with the teaching of the Catholic Church, including many catholics. As a Catholic I went to chapel to pay my respects to my spiritual leader. That's where we all should be reflecting not at a sporting event.
Did we not have people at CP refuse on a point of conscience and prinicpal not to stand in silence for the death of the Queen Mother? In the end the call was not to blacken Celtic's name rather than a desire to reflect on the life of a decent human being.
If you want to reflect on this great man's life go to chapel, not a sporting event.
I do not expect anyone to force their beliefs on me and in turn I do not do that on anyone else. My religion is a persoanl matter between me and my Lord other and otherwise only ever shared in the confessional.
I abhore the religousising (is there such a word?) of Celtic but we're to blame for this e.g. BBC Scotland went to CP to gather the views of Catholics on the passing of our Pope which I find utterly disgusting, elsewhere in the world the media went to Cathedrals. How can we demand the Scottish media separate religion and sport if Celtic fans force the two together. Stamp this out now!!!
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Why are we doing this? not everyone agrees with the teaching of the Catholic Church, including many catholics. As a Catholic I went to chapel to pay my respects to my spiritual leader. That's where we all should be reflecting not at a sporting event.
Did we not have people at CP refuse on a point of conscience and prinicpal not to stand in silence for the death of the Queen Mother? In the end the call was not to blacken Celtic's name rather than a desire to reflect on the life of a decent human being.
If you want to reflect on this great man's life go to chapel, not a sporting event.
I do not expect anyone to force their beliefs on me and in turn I do not do that on anyone else. My religion is a persoanl matter between me and my Lord other and otherwise only ever shared in the confessional.
I abhore the religousising (is there such a word?) of Celtic but we're to blame for this e.g. BBC Scotland went to CP to gather the views of Catholics on the passing of our Pope which I find utterly disgusting, elsewhere in the world the media went to Cathedrals. How can we demand the Scottish media separate religion and sport if Celtic fans force the two together. Stamp this out now!!!
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Football and religion should not mix we all know that. But if Celtic did not do this then they are denying there heritage and Brother Walfraid would have been ashamed at Celtic for not taken a stand at the SFA.
If this minutes silence doesnt take place we all know whos fault it will be, but that doesnt mean Celtic shouldnt do it anyway.
Our next home game aswell should be a time to pay or respects when all celtic fans are together.
What case do the SFA have if we defy them NONE. And if they do fine us then Celtic should say to them thats great but we get to choose the charity. Is that not the Celtic way.
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Nice of Andy Mitchell to gives us his mobile number.
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The SFA has today held a meeting where it was decided that a minutes silence was appropriate. Two points though. Why did it take so long for this to be decided? - In the time it has taken to come to this decision, many people have travelled many miles to get to Rome to pay their respects to the Holy Father. Secondly, they had to actually have a meeting about this matter, when almost every other country in the western world , the reaction was automatic. they paid their respects without question. Just what image does the SFA believe the rest of the World will have about Scotland. As a Scotsman living in England, I don't believe I have ever felt more ashamed of my own country. Or at least of certain bigots within my homeland
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There doing the silence well done Celtic we won. Justice has prevailed.
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Why all of a sudden is there a call for Religion and Football to be separate. Is it the fact that we arer dealing with the death of the Pope that is causing all these people to suddenly say that they do not believe the 2 should mix and only football related issues deserve a minutes silence at a ground.
Remembering that no-one begrudged Diana a missed weekend of fixtures including the OF match that week and the minutes silences that followed. She was a Princess of another country (though perhaps I am stretching it a bit here!) Who did she lead or represent in Scotland for that matter?
Jim Baxter got 3 weeks of silences and Ok that was a bit OTT but we did not complain as much as I have seen punters state upon various sites since Saturday.
No I just find it interesting that all of a sudden as soon as a RC figure passes away, albeit the top man himself, so many people come out stating they do not believe in minutes silences and all this.
At the Barca match on the day of the Madrid bombings were people saying that there should be no silence, likewise with 9/11 and other recent disasters. NO they were very quiet.
Obviously only one conclusion can be found - it must be something to do with the individual's concerned religion that must be the problem. It couldn't be their nationality as that would make those individuals i am referring to as racist and that isn't PC is it? You can though, in this truly twisted mindset, be both PC and yet anti-Catholic. For the Catholic faith is the absolute aversion to any liberal PC thinker and at fault for all moral issues in the world today.
I am not a strong Catholic, tend to be a hatchings, matchings and despatchings plus midnight mass part-timer myself (sort of 'buying shares in the afterlife' to quote the sawdoctors if you like). But it gets my goat listening to these diatribes asking for all this separation of football from external issues when the game exists in a world alongside these very issues. Yes the Pope deserves a minutes silence, just like the Queen will when she moves on to. the fact that the subject has attracted such stories highlights how backwards this country of ours still is.
Personally I blame the schools (8^P
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When the Queen dies there is no doubt in my mind that there will be a minutes silence at every major sporting event in Soctland.
The Queen is a major figure in this country and equally so was the Pope. Anyone who was in Bellahouston Park will testify to this. Both these figures should be granted the same respect.
There has been much debate about why football matches in particular are singled out to show or respect in this way. My take on it is that football is the nation's sport and is the main way our country get together to express themselves. Therefore it is not unresonable for these occasions to be used to allow the nation's depth of feeling to be expressed.
If people want to do it in private then good luck to them, but I doubt if any such person would ignore a call for a minutes silence before a match.
I am not particularly political or religious but I think this truly is a time for Scotland to show itself as a mature country capable of moving above petty arguments and expressing grief/respect for the loss of a major world leader.
Football is more than just a sport. For many it is a way of life and a means of expressing themselves. Even if you do not want to take part in a minutes silence for the Pope then have the decency to allow people who do to very publicly express themselves.
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It was my understanding that Chic has only cancelled his wedding cause his maw has decided that he should represent her as head of state, in other words how much does Chic's Maw hate him, she was not even going to attend his wedding in the first place, now she has made him cancel it and represent her at the funeral of a religious leader which constitutionaly she and her family have laws against to protect there position.
quite bizarre set of circumstances
www.throneout.com CSC
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Football is just the most popular sport now. And what is all the fuss about about given up minutes to respect people who have passed on. Is not too much to ask to be silent for a minute regardless if you like wha the person has done in he/she's life.
What do people do in that minute instead get a couple of prawn sandwiches in themselves b4 the game.
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Don't be fooled by Prince Charles' decision to postpone his wedding - the Archibishop of Canterbury's attendnace at the Pope's funeral is pretty much mandatory, and he's the one marrying the happy couple. So, the Royal wedding would have been cancelled irrespective of Charles' feelings on the matter.
Personally speaking, I think these silences are largely a waste of time, and are often embarassing - their validity should be called into question.
I seriously doubt that sections of the Hearts support will keep the silence - their club is mired in the same kind of religious bigotry that typifies Rangers - although, doubtless, Hearts fans would deny this. However, I would happily invite the swell of Hearts fans who gleefully chanted repeated choruses of the 'Billy Boys' at Celtic Park last Saturday to challenge me on this.
There are better, and more subtle gestures to be made when marking the passing of an important figure - Pope, Queen, former player or otherwise; the lowering of flags, the wearing of black armbands.
In Italy, the fans applaud during the period of 'silence' to show their respect - something which would defy the idiots who deliberately and disrespectfully disrupt a solemn gesture. If you don't feel like participating, don't embarass the club, or yourself - just sit down, shut your mouth and fold your arms; it's only 60 seconds.
In all, I feel there's no place for religion (or royalty, for that matter) in football. The Pope and the Queen and their likes have nothing to do with Celtic Football Club - or any other team in Scotland, for that matter. The converse is also true.
Silences and solemn gestures should be reserved for those who contribute to the clubs themselves; former players, ex-managers, faithful servants and dedicated fans.
sure, Davie Cooper was a great player - but a far more appropriate gesture on Celtic's behalf would have been the donation of some money to charity.
Instead, the silences held to mark his passing were peppered with the bile interruptions of bitter fans who mocked the man's death in a public show of downright shame.
Thankfully for David Murray, Rangers are not playing the Scottish Cup this weekend - but I seriously doubt if they would embarrass themselves by attempting to observe any form of silence for the Pope, and rightfully so.
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We have an opportunity to end once and for all the sham that is a 'minutes silence'. I would urge all Celtic fans to show respect for the death of the Pope without the blessing of the SFA, and to have no further part in any silence as instructed by the SFA or any relevant authority. I was dismayed at the minutes silence for the mother of the Queen of England, a woman who had no connection to, nor love, for the supporters of Celtic Football Club, and I would be against any future show of respect to any of her family on the event of them passing away.
JimmyC
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I'm with anon 12.46 (get a name) on this. I don't like these 'silences'. I'm sure people who realy care have either had a quiet word with upstairs or if they have felt the need gone to church.
However that is my absolute opinion.
If they have minutes silences for others a silence on Sunday is completely apropriate (as it should have been on Sunday at the rangers game - but funnily enough wasn't deemed to be!!!.
Can I make it clear that no offence is intended by me here on what can be quite a delicate topic but I'm quite happy to discuss this at a later date.
On a lighter note I saw a quote that since that camilla parker bowel movement has been on the scene no one has seen Rod Hull. Hmmm
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I gave up on catholicism long ago - however of course a minutes silence should be held at ALL major sporting events. I say this simply because the precedent has been set and, as Celtic supporters, we are routinely required to do this following the death of any part of British royalty - even though many of us completely disagree with the concept.
It is amazing how life (or indeed death) can throw up these conundrums. The SFA simply don't know what to do. They realise they can't allow this to happen at a Rangers game as we all know what would happen. But they should be honest and admit this. Mr McConnell - where are you - I thought you were trying to tackle sectarianism? This really is priceless. I remember the furore surrouding the silence for the Queen Mother before the game where we beat Livingston to win the league - there was all sorts of threats made if we didn't abide by the silence.
The FSA think they have been clever saying the Scottish Cup games - as I remember the general rule is to force all games in the immediate vicinity of the death to stage these (remember we had to abide by 3 of these for Jim Baxter)?
The authorities know they are in trouble here - don't let them off the hook.
As for the press - well arn't they strangely silent - I wonder why. Maybe its their own mark of respect!!!!!
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"Thankfully for David Murray, Rangers are not playing the Scottish Cup this weekend - but I seriously doubt if they would embarrass themselves by attempting to observe any form of silence for the Pope, and rightfully so."
Qoute above from Matrin how is it rightfull so if they cant hold a minute silence for a great man. It's shameful that they couldnt do it. Celtic fans did it for Diana and there were no complaints. I would love them to be put in the position to see what there reaction would be they would probably sing there FTP athems an all that.
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This is an SFA decission to have a mark of respect what about the SPL and SFL?
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I e-mailed the SFL and SFA (and SPL by letter - no e-mail address on their website)today voicing my disgust at their decision.
Everyone else should do the same if they are so inclined.
Don't accept it in silence.
Paddybhoy
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It is not only football where there has been marks of respect e.g. formula one held one and there will be a one-minute silence at Aintree on Friday. As for the SPL and SFL I found this on the BBC website.
- Cup ties to honour Pope's memory
There will be a minute's silence before this weekend's Scottish Cup semi-finals in memory of Pope John Paul II.
The Scottish Premier League and the Scottish Football League had decided earlier this week to leave the matter to their clubs' discretion.
That is still the case for league games, but a minute's silence will be observed before the two semi-finals.
Dundee United play Hibs on Saturday, while Hearts meet Celtic on Sunday. Both games take place at Hampden. -
As both the SPL and SFL are leaving it to the clubs own discretion does this make them more or less enlightened than UEFA? Also as Rangers play at home on Tuesday what discretion will they show.
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Just found out that there will be no minute's silence at the Rangers home game on Tuesday. League fixtures fall under the jurisdiction of the SPL/SFL & they have said that clubs wishing to observe a minute's respect can do so, however they will not insist on it being carried out. This is a dark time indeed.
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I also think it would be a good idea if all Celtic fans raised there scarfs during the minutes silence, a silent "you'll never Walk alone" if you like.
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celticbhoy makes a very good point. It is possible to view Rangers not choosing to hold a minutes silence as the correct thing to do as there is a high likelyhood that a number of their fans will not so the correct level of respect.
Having said that it is only true if they then take action to ensure that such individuals are asked to behave like adults.
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Jama thaks for your support, the point I would really like to make is that if Rangers as a club request a minutes silence no matter how some of their fans behave the club will have done the right thing and enacted on the Pride Over Prejudice campaign.
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i find this kind of sad.
most would agree that the pope was a ecumenical guerilla, striving to bring peace, friendship and understanding amongst those of different faiths, cultures and nationalities the world over.
i doubt somehow he would look on the bickering, points scoring and righteous indignation currently being peddled by many who support own own club as being either productive or desirable.
indeed, one can't help but think if the issue were only to cause resentment and bitterness, he'd have preferred it to be put aside.
those who chose to do so can mark their respects to a great man and pontiff in their own ways, i fail to see why the communal silence affords us any more enlightened state of grace.
as such i find no bitterness or resentment towards those wh should have had the responsibility to administer such a directive, much like, i suspect his holiness himself would.
this of course is a very seperate issue from why they have chosen not to do so. in a lesser of two evils toss up, the authorities more than likely surmised there would be less flak for inactivity than for the vociferous sullying that may have arisen in certain quarters at last weekend's diet of fixtures. should, of course, the media have chosen to report it in the public domain.
and i tend to agree. do we really need another issue to drive a schism between our two clubs, and our two sets of supporters.
thus the only issue here, that i can see would be why certain people would choose not to respect a silence for a man who can surely have done them no ill.
the authorities have been fortunate in their timing of events, with rangers fixture card being vacant this weekend, and with the issue presumably having subsided thereafter, and it should be fair to assume that this issue will not raise it's head again for some time, possibly some more enlightened time, as the next pontiff has not even been chosen yet.
but leadership mist come from the top. a few short weeks ago in his encyclical to the unfaithful david murray said he would rid the club of the, and i believe i quote here, "FTP" brigade.
i wonder how uncomfortably he viewed the unfolding events when a (newspaper euphemism here) sizable minority of the supposedly cleansed support revelled in the truism that, for the time being at least, there is indeed "no pope of rome."
perhaps, and bear with me, i'm an idealist,, perhaps from such an event of global significance, it would not be too much to ask the even in our insular society, that david murray hold true to his assertions, and banish the "FTP" brigade from amongst his legions. surely no better tribute could be paid to the passing of such a purveyor of tolerance and understanding.
i'm sure if they ask very nicely, they could get a hold of the security tapes of the crowd, just to give them a head start in identifying the "sizable minority" involved.
jock tamson
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Adrian1888 - what is it you want? Do you want Rangers to hold a minute's silence in respect of a man they clearly don't (and will never) respect, or do you want them to do it because they'll publically embarrass themselves?
If it's the latter, then your priorities are all wrong.
If David Murray et al have any sense, they'll lower their flags and ask the players to wear black armbands - and make a good show of it. Anything else is more than we can ask of them.
It would be foolish of Rangers to attempt to hold a silence of any kind at their next match on Tuesday, as it would be roundly derided and abused by their fans, causing them the kind of public humiliation they need to try and avoid in the current climate.
I feel this would be the sensible and right decision on their part.
People next to me at Celtic Park on Saturday booed the chairman of our club - what chance has the leader of the Catholic Church got at Ibrox?
And just because Celtic held a silence for Diana, doesn't mean to say there should be one every time for every public figure who croaks it.
As I said in my original comment, all of these silences should be called into question - not just the ones proposed for the Pope or members of the Royal Family.
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Martin - I think that if Murray instructed the flags at half mast & the players wore black armbands on Tuesday then that would be just as acceptable as a minute's silence. It would at least show an effort to change the mindset of the bigoted ones. Some mark of respect is better than nothing. When you go to an International Football Match & they play the National Anthem of the opposition - it's civil to be upstanding & show appreciation/respect - this is all that is being asked, however i appreciate that it's a tall order for this to take place without strong objection from the dark side of the force.
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Bhoys they have read our emails
SFA Notice
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It might just be the hearts fans who show themselves up on sunday. We all know they have an element of support akin to rangers.
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Buts it's the kind of public humiliation they need for everyone to stand up and take notice of the bigotry in that stadium. I dont have any respect for the queen but i have respect for the dead and if rangers cant be silent for a minute b4 a match then that is there shame. If Rangers were still in the scottish cup and celtic aswell but not playing each other there would be no order from the SFA for minute silences they would be saying to themselves "rangers are involved we all know how much they and we disrespect the pope so its the teams choice if they want to have the minutes silence or not.
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I'm not a religious person, although I find the silence from Mr. McConnel deafening. This just goes to show that, much like the Panorama programme, the Scottish Executive are scared to delve too deeply into the issue.
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Swanny67 while you are right there will only be silence while the election is on.
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“Let he who is without sin cast the first stone”
This was (past tense) an SFA issue, not a Rangers issue. As one who chose to reflect my feelings for the monarchy during the minutes silence for the Queen Mother I will hold my counsel on what happens elsewhere.
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Swanny67...Mr McConnel, and other s like him in positions of power, pay no more than lip service to the idea that they oppose bigotry. Making sweeping statements is easy.
Actually having the guts to trully get to grips with this subject would be too much like sticking his head over the parapit
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As a practising Catholic and Scottish Republican Socialist, I hope that when the time comes all those so voiciferously calling for rangers to be humiliated by demanding that they have a minute's silence for Pope John Paul, will observe such a silence for the Queen, when she goes to heaven.
The Pope's death is not a time for point scoring even in Scotland, a land we all know only too well is besmirched by sectarianism but as the Panorama programme showed we have our own bigots aplenty. Let us honour the great man properly ourselves. Holding up the scarves in a silent "You'll never walk alone" sounds very apporpriAte to me.
Parkheadcumsalford.
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It's not up to us to say who will go to heaven. But if the time came that i had to swallow my pride and observe a minutes silence for the queen then i would.
I would appreciated you wouldnt call me a bigot Parkheadcumsalford.
Celtic may have some but i am not one of them.
I was just giving an opinion.
I just think it is right for the minutes silence no matter were you are in the world.
It's funny only in Scotland (maybe NI aswell) would u have a debate like this!!!
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Evening Paul, fellow tims,
First of all,Paul I didn't think you would ever bring this subject up on your site. Well done.
I was at Murrayfield and Bellahouston Park when the Holy Father came to Scotland.It was one of the most remarkable things I have ever witnessed or attended.
The crap going on about wether there should be a minutes silence or not really does beggar belief.
The precedent has been set. Major sporting venues are where the public face of the country is shown to the world in this respect whether we like it or not.It has been going on for so many years now that it has become de rigeur for it to be expected when there is a death of some important person or a national disaster.
Yes we can offer our prayers and wishes privately or in a service out of the public eye.And this path may be chosen by those who wish to, but, if ever there was a reason for Celtic supporters to be upstanding and observe a moments's silence , then surely this is the time.Apart from tributes to ex players and so forth,I can see no more important time for this to happen.We do not need the SFA or SPL or the Scottish Parliament to tell us to do this, or for any of them to organise it for us.We are capable of showing our own respect and the way to observe this would be at the first opportunity that presents itself.Namely the game on Sunday.I don't really care whether the Hearts or Rangers fans do so or not. It will merely show them up for what we already know what they are.A bunch of bigoted sods and one minutes silence(even if it were to be observed)would not make me change my mind about them.It is up to us to show what this means to us and nobody else.
Yes it is an intensely personal thing,but I do believe even personal feelings are much more powerful when demonstrated en masse and in full public view.
Please all be observant for the tribute at Hampden Park and beyond.
John Paul 11. Holy Father, Bishop of Rome.May he rest in peace.
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Im no lover of the royal family or of royalty in general. It is a privalege bestowed upon them through birth. The queen never asked to be born, bred or indeed groomed for the position of Queen.
She is however far and away the best of the bunch she has never acted in the way her siblings, cousins husband etc have. Her mother too was a game old bird who behaved impeccably in public. As I stated im no royalist infact the opposite, would I stand for a minutes silence in the advent of her death, yes.
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Anon 6.05,
as was stated earlier there is a difference between respect for the royal family and respect for the dead. This has manifested itself many times at Celtic Park, and long may it continue.
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My apologies, Adrian1888. I hadn't meant to label yourself or anyone on this site as a bigot. One of the reasons I enjoy it so much is that the level of debate tends to render anything like that irrelevant. It is just that I feel whenever anything like this comes up, a certain section of our support become quite hypocritical.
Parkheadcumsalford.
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Can someone tell what was "great" about this man? Was it great that he was elected as God's rep on earth by a right wing pseudo mafia? Was it "great" that he pled for clemency for Pinochet a murderous dictator? Was it "great" that he passed dictat on contraception for the poor in the third world contributing to a massive rise in HIV and a death sentence for millions(while his flock in the west practised safe sex)?
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Concerning the issue of the minute silence, it would be an utter embarrassment if any organisation in Football did not promote the mark of respect for the most inspirational individual of a generation.
I believe that religion aside, the opportunity to mark your own respect to Pope John Paul II should never be prevented. To take this action in any form would be the ultimate act of cowardice; we would be hiding in the dark from the bigoted many that plague our society. Instead we should adopt the late pope’s attitude and stand up fearlessly for the truth, shedding light on the reality of our modern society.
I am sorry to be a bit deep here by I genuinely feel utterly sickened that shallow anti-catholic individuals can influence our society in this way.
Furthermore concerning the media, and sometimes I think that some factions within the Celtic support have got the media wrong on their agenda!!
In the year 2000 the Pope held a world youth day in Rome – 5 MLLION young people turned out, the biggest gathering of young people in the Western world ever – a phenomenal turnout of Historic proportions, an incredible joyous event in our History to mark such an occasion, it filled many countries with great hope for the future.
How many of you’s reading this have ever heard this had taken place – not many I bet! We traveled through many European countries before we arrived in Italy; the build up in even non-catholic areas was front page news for weeks. During the event and after it, it was told to be an incredibly inspirational event. I asked my mum to keep press-cuttings of the build up and all the pictures from all the papers in Scotland. What did I get – a fifteen page cutout from the Herald, whose report was inaccurate – no other coverage or pictures? The reason why I am telling this story is that I feel the press in this country just doesn’t get it, they don’t seem to understand Catholicism and what it means. They portray Catholics in the completely wrong manner. They are not interested in the truth and their silence on this latest issue has just re-confirmed what I have known, I am no longer angry just sad that we cannot be represented properly in the country I was born in.
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I'm not a big fan of minutes' silences - they're imposed on the crowd and easily broken by a tiny minority which totally ruins them.
I'm not at all religious and I wouldn't be happy to be basically forced to make a gesture which implied a sentiment that I didn't actually feel.
I don't think there's a right answer here but to change tack a little - some people I've heard are a little too quick to imply that Celtic are inherently religious and therefore must align themselves with the RC. This, I feel, is divisive.
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Stevie 21, of course it would not be correct to automatically allign to catholocism because you are a celtic supporter, but shouldn't you in society respect the sentiments of others who want to pay their respects, the same way celtic supporters have repected the death of many other people at Parkhead.
Because we think that certain people will ruin it we shouldnt hide from this fact and let these idiots win. No I beleive we should take the tougher option (usually the corrct one) and do the right thing by a great man!
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Paul
I must confess, my first reaction was to leave the hun media enough rope with which to hang themselves over this - Scotland's new shame. However, i now feel that Celtic fans should rise above all the sectarian shite and pay our respects in our own way. Whatever Pride Over Prejudice decide to do to mark the passing of Il Papa is enitirely up to them. Should the SFA continue the ostrich mentality, then that's up to them also. I think it's a great idea for any Celtic fan who wishes to pay his respects by observing a minutes silence on sunday. Don't turn this into an argument with those who are so blinded by hatred. We have already won. Our day will come and it will be Sunday.
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Parkhead cumsalford - Yes, why not have a minutes "respectful" silence for Lizzie, as one of our other bloggers commented she's the best of the (bad) bunch, and, also Celtic fans have a deserved repution of being the best fans around, We've had silences for J.Baxter (A great footballer and opponent) The queen mother (a proven racist, who didn't like black people) Diana the bimbo (English rose ?) all observed by that great, well behaved, long suffering Celtic support, hell I even remember standing in silence at Hampden in a cup final while TFOD sang THEIR national anthem because one of the royal whelps attended (Maggie or Anne ? can't remember which), and we did it because Celtic asked us to at least show respect and not BOO.
So if Lizzie pops off soon lets spare the 60 secs. she deserves, then when Greek Phil goes we can raise the roof (with an appropriate song of course) and see how the Huns and their Bastard media react to that.
Rest in peace JP2
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I see Villareal lost 2-1 this evening that might help our Pot 2 chances.........if anyone is interested in football that is.
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Thank you 10.03 Anonymous for bringing us back to football which for many non-Irish, non-Republican, non-Religious/Catholic Celtic fans is our prime concern!
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I sent a complaint in to the BBC Panorama team following their 'Scotland's Secret Shame' programme.
Unfortunately, that attempt, as we all witnessed, was wide of the mark and failed to address the provenance of the continuation of the problem - Ibrox, Rangers Football Club and the majority of their supporters.
I've posted a copy of my original note - which was limited to 1500 characters (BBC rules!!)and their reply (received today).
The reply isn't a personal one - an indication possibly that they have had to put together a 'one response fits all'.
It appears that they continue to adopt an approach that seeks to balance the blame.
They mention the 'issue of segregated schools' (I'm not a fan, but it soesn't cause problems elsewhere), the 'link between the booze and the blade' - why not look at the rise of hooliganism down south for a better example?
This programme was about glorifying the hatred and seeking to 'sensationalise' without getting any balance.
The programme did nothing to enhance our reputation in the UK - god knows what it will do if there are any thoughts about us joining the EPL. Scottish Football will be all over the News this weekend IF supporters of Celtic, our opponents and the huns do not behave themselves during any mark of respect.
My email: Scotland's Secret Shame was a well-intentioned, but poorly executed attempt at highlighting bigotry in the Scotland. There appeared to be a clear attempt at showing a 'balanced' view that supporters of both sides of the old firm are equally to blame. The solid evidence was the sickening scenes of victims from both sides being treated in A&E for serious injuries. The shocking 'miskick' was where the programme featured the behaviour of the fans inside the grounds. Celtic have almost completely wiped out sectarian songs inside their ground.
Celtic DO have some control over the behaviour of the away fans - a point missed by the production team. They distribute the tickets and also provide the match Stewards. At Ibrox, on the other hand, the club, its management and its PA team on a Saturday afternoon encourage the singing of sectarian songs by the tunes that are selected before games
A point was made that the Irish tri-colour flys above Celtic Park -I assume as acknowledgement to the club's 'roots'. The Union Jack also
flys above the ground - in recognition that they are a british club.
This was not balanced reporting - scenes of a Republican march - and
none of an Orange March. Orange marches outnumber those of the
Republicans by 100 to 1 in Scotland - yet no mention of them. This could have been a constructive exposure of this cancer in Scotland with an opportunity to search for solutions. The BBC team here pulled its punches by not exposing that Rangers are doing little to discourage this behaviour.
Response:
Dear Mr
Thank you for your e-mail.
The Panorama investigation, 'Scotland's Secret Shame' transmitted on Sunday, 27 February on BBC1 has provoked a great deal of public debate on the issue of sectarianism. Much of the criticism has come from those who believe that we focussed our attention too closely at the role of the two Glasgow football clubs, Celtic and Rangers, and that we ignored the causes and dealt only in a superficial way with the symptoms of sectarianism.
Our intention was to investigate sectarianism in 2005 and to assess the impact of the new law which was introduced to tackle it. We felt that the pronouncements of the First Minister over the course of the past two years - 'it was Mr. McConnell after all who branded this as 'Scotland's Secret Shame'" and clearly indicated that there was an emerging political will to end this problem once and for all. We wanted to produce a film that would make this complex issue comprehensible to a UK-wide audience who might have little or no understanding of sectarianism or of its connection to football. The prism of the rivalry between the two clubs, Celtic and Rangers, was one vehicle for doing this but we intended to explore how sectarianism, and the law that was now in place to tackle it, affected the wider community.
Even those who have been critical of the film have acknowledged that it has served a useful purpose in making us stop in our tracks and think anew about the cancer (even if it is a declining one) in our midst. There have been many, including supporters from both clubs, who have applauded our efforts in raising the issue. Of course, there is much more that we could have explored - the issue of segregated schools, the link between football violence and the culture of 'booze and blade' - to name but two ingredients in the sectarian mix. But each of those issues would need a programme of their own to do them justice.
In the e-mail response to the film, and we are grateful to all those who took the time and trouble to write, there were many who referred to the songs performed by the choir and complained that these were sectarian or carried political overtones. The four songs used in the film 'The Sash', 'The Billy Boys', 'The Soldiers Song' (we are aware that this is the Irish National Anthem), and 'The Boys of the Old Brigade' - were chosen because that is what we had heard sung by supporters of Celtic and Rangers at matches. It is up to the clubs to decide whether they are appropriate and to the Police as to whether they will cause offence under the new law. On a specific point of complaint, we mistakenly used the term 'Protestant schools' when they should clearly have been described as 'non-denominational schools'. We apologise for this error in the commentary.
It is easy to charge the film with being 'sensationalist' and damaging to the reputation of the clubs, their supporters, the city of Glasgow and the image of Scotland. We acknowledged in the film that much has changed for the better over time and throughout the film there were numerous contributors making the point that sectarianism was no longer going to be tolerated. But what we recorded and broadcast - and it made for uncomfortable and disturbing viewing - was all too real. The bigoted language, the sectarian songs, the provocative chants and salutes, were events that we witnessed over a period of months and it wasn't just confined to a handful of hooligans. And in just one night with emergency medical staff, we saw the violent aftermath of an 'Old Firm' match and what can happen if you are wearing the wrong colour of football top. Broken heads and damaged lives can be the price of religious bigotry in Scotland. As responsible broadcasters and journalists that is not something that we should, or could, ignore.
I appreciate that you may continue to disagree, rest assured that your views have been registered and form part of our daily feedback to programme makers and BBC management. Comments such as yours help us plan future programmes.
Thank you for contacting the BBC
Murdoch Rogers
Producer
Panorama
Ps. I now claim the prize for the longest (relevant) post.
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i take it murdoch rogers didn't actually read your email.
That response is infuriating to say the least.
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(Further to Anon 10.03pm)
Raise your glasses once again to the Dutch as AZ ALKMAAR DO CELTIC ANOTHER FAVOUR!
First they beat Rankers in the UEFA Cup.
Then they contrived to lose to Genk to ensure Rankers elimination.
Then they knocked out Shakhtar Donetsk by beating them home AND away.
And now they have beaten Villarreal away from home in the first leg of the QF.
So it's now looking unlikely that Villarreal will prevail in the competition, and therefore they will probably fail to overhaul Celtic's UEFA coefficient. We can therefore (soon) cross our fingers and will Villarreal to retain their top 3 spot in La Liga, ideally with Sevilla, Espanyol or Real Betis taking fourth place to prevent Valencia and Deportivo from qualifying for the Champions League. That will mean that two more of the teams ranked above Celtic won't be in the CL, effectively moving us two places up the rankings, and closer to guaranteeing that second seed status - should we succesfully navigate our way through the qualifying round(s) of course.
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Cheers Bigchips, will be bigchips (and special fish since its Friday) if we get into Pot 2. Oh come on guys, picture this.........blank the huns, don't let them bother you, we go out do ourselves proud at the min silence, whoop Edinburgh Rankers ass go on to win ALL,yes ALL our remaining games as TGIFITW have roared their neddy / corporate (delete as appropriate) arses off,stay till the 94th, 5th or 101st minute, thus motivating the team who bring back a league and cup double securing only one (seeded) qualifying round tie that allows MON to frshen up the squad...................come on guys, it's really not that far fetched is it????????
Lets get our act together re-focus on our objectives and do this....TOGETHER
Mon the Hoops!!!
Anon 10.03
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Just a quick bit of mischief on the minutes silence issue
Margeret Thatcher
anyone else wanna join in
Thatcher Thatcher G.T.F.
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May the Souls of the Faithfully Departed, Rest in Peace. Amen.
JPII RIP
Anon. 10.03
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I'll tell you why he's great ayreshire celt, he turned around and forgave the man that attempted to assasinate him, he went to meet him and forgave him. If he did nothing else then hopefully that touch of humanity will have even the smallest effect on people. Heck some people couldn't forgive dallas for giving a penalty against us.
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The level of debate about the issue of this minute silence, religion and football for me has lost all relevance of why us as Celtic supporters should have been and now have been given the chance to pay our respects.
Without the catholic religion there would be no Celtic football club and today in our modern society Celtic Football Club play’s a huge part in the catholic society in Scotland.
For me what was most shocking about this week was the silence from Celtic themselves they should have been knocking down the SFA’s door to allow us Celtic the chance to pay the respect to the leader of our founding fathers faith and a faith that played a massive part of this club being formed. Celtic Football Club of today owe a lot to these peoples vision mindset and beliefs.
One good thing that has came out of this is the actions of the supporters association they mobilised a plan of action and forced the SFA is back down or they would look foolish in the eyes of the world. Still shows that people power can get results. And that when injustice is rife the Celtic support, seem to be more able than others to come up with direct action.
This was never a case of us against them even tough it might have ended up this way but this was an action that had to be taken to as the relevant people who were not allowing Celtic to pay it’s respects. This maybe the only time Celtic and Religion can or should be linked but it’s Celtic traditional link with Catholicism that makes this silence right. Maybe it would also be only right for it also to be marked at a game that Celtic are involved in as Celtic are unique in a worldwide sense because of our links to the catholic faith.
The debate about other minutes silences for Royals players etc is for another time and is not on the same level look at Celtic’s history and deep down you know that Celtic have a right to pay their respect to the leader of the catholic faith.
So when we all stand in silence on Sunday all different race colours and religions but all under the Celtic Banner remember we are also paying our respects to Brother Walfrid and the people who gave so much to give us the club we love.
Kilo O’Neal
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plus compare the percentage of catholics in countries you speak of with regard AIDS and HIV with the percentage of the population with these diseases, are you trying to say that only catholics suffer from these. The catholic doctrine is typically only followed by catholics so the chruch can't realistically be blamed for people of other faiths picking up these diseases as you would have us believe, catholic faith also preaches one partner and faithfulness, if all parts of the catholic teachings were followed then there wouldn't be a problem. The problems you speak of are essentially down to the lack of education and lack of will by the governments of these countries to teach their people about HIV and AIDS and how it is transmitted. Get your facts straight before you re-coddle something you read in a red-top.
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Watching the Pope’s funeral service at present. The BBC have just done a ‘round the world’ trip showing people from as far afield as the Phillippines and northern Iraq showing respect and love for a great man.
I would humbly suggest that anyone who has ever had any hope for a peaceful world filled with love for all fellow human beings would want to show respect for a man who did so much (by example and action) for world peace.
What has this to do with Celtic. I would hope that every other Saturday I was sitting with 60,000 other people who believed (in their own faith, religion, or moral code) in peace on earth, good will to all men.
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Is a 'normal' minutes silence not good enough. All this raising scarves, black armbands is simply the usual 'look at me I'm a catholic' brigade. What about a quick blast of roamin in the gloamin?
Celtic is a club for all or any religion and should have no affiliation to any religious leader.
The minutes silence is completely appropriate in that all sporting institutions are recognising the popes passing. End of story. All this other stuff from the csa (~if I've picked it up right) is nonsense and sends out a bad message. We are not a catholic club. Many supporters are or were catholic, are active or lapsed catholics, are other or not or non religion perhaps even anti religion. I know some will try to slaughter this pos
