 Thursday, April 21, 2005
Uefa endorses requirement for 8 youth development players from 25 man squad
Uefa have today approved the plan to introduce a quota requiring 8 of the 25 player squad available for European competitions to be acquired from domestic youth academies.
The change is due to become active from summer next year, though initially clubs will only need four youth players, two of which must be from their own youth development systems and two of which can be from another club in the same country.
By 2008 the change will be fully implemented with clubs requiring 8 players developed from domestic youth systems. Uefa have also recommended that the national associations apply this rule to domestic competitions as well.
Europe’s largest clubs have objected to this proposal from day one, and are likely to continue to try to reverse this decision, however, a significant step forward has been made.
Should be very good news for Celtic, who will not need to adjust much to conform to the rule.
Details on how to book for the Celtic Quick News Dinner and Golf Day
on 15th July can be found here.
41 Comments:
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Marshall, Kennedy, Maloney, Mc Geady, Pearson, Beattie, Wallace, McManus, no bother at all, only people gonna miss out on a few all expenses paid trips to the continent are the likes of Fernandez and Sylla, I don’t think Real Madrid will be counting their blessings at that one!!
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given our dominance at U21(reserves now) over the last few years and under 17 age group...and R*gers relative weakness....we could see some young bhoys ending up in the squad for europe.
Look at the scotland future squad--I think there were five or six current and ex celts. Youngsters become more valuable...hope messrs Lawell and O'Neill are reviewing the young Bhoys contracts before the prices go up....for young scots this is the equivalent of Bosman for 2nd rate continentals . i.e. they will be more valuable therefore they will make more money as they will be in demand .
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obviously I meant "in their squad" i.e. they will have to make up their 8 player requirement by buying from us.
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Paul...please clarify, will this mean that clubs will have to actually FIELD 3 or 4 of these home grown players during games, or just as long as they are part of the squad? (8 out of 25 being c32%)
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Peter, there is no requirement on who takes the field, only the make-up of the squad.
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Paul do we know what exactly do they mean by Homegrown, Youth Homegrown and Youth Players and National Players. I thinking along the lines of how old they were when they signed, what type contract they signed, what type of contract they had at their previous club, how long they have been at the academy etc?? I thinking largely to do with the Canadian, Icelandic and Irish Lads we've signed in last few years. Will there be a scenario in a few years when we ask them to be nationalised just to play???
P.S. for those FM2005 fans here what about this for a month (though it actually happens next may'ish) Win league, Win UEFA Cup with a final win over AJAX, they had twice as many shots but we won 3-2 in extra time(1-1 FT) having earlier beaten Spurs, Barca (Frank R got fired even though i stuck up for him) and Udinese, then beat U know who in cup final 7-2 after going 1-0 down, mc leish was sacked at start of season (about 10 games in they were about 6th and 10+ points behind) and replaced by our mate Walter oh and they havent added a real player in 2 yrs were I added Yobo,henchoz, demel, Beerhalter, van den borre, calderwood, kaluznhy, robiana, van bommel, yakin, Gokadeniz (Sonethin like that), Mansiz, Camara and Estanyof and Adu, upgradeed training facilities to world class with Yth Acad. and balance has went from about 3mill. to 30 mill. and i've got about 11 mill to spend this summer.
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I thought that what was important was that they were developed BY THE CLUB, not what their nationality is (this would be racial discrimination, surely?!).
So the Icelandic lads can be counted, as far as I know, because they have been signed at such a young age (I think it is 18 or less), and have then come through the club's youth system.
The 8 from 25 IN THE SQUAD basically means that the likes of RM, ACM, MU can still play the same first 11 that they might have done ordinarily, but their full squad will have to be effectively 17 plus 8 who meet the stipulated criteria.
As such, barring a plethora of injuries (more than 6), the ruling needn't even affect them... How many of the squad have been used by AC Milan this season?
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I think this is good news. Maybe changes like this are what is needed for the game in general.
What I think I'm trying to say is, will a rule like this generally help reduce wage bills for all clubs? Whilst also encouraging the development of the game within your own country?
I don't want to sound to nationalistic but should'nt the two big Scottish clubs be leading the way in this, and by example, fielding more homegrown players.
Am I getting nostalgic for something that never really existed?
Anyhow, someone mentioned Peasron. I hope he stays with us, the lad has a lot of pace and good with both feet, I'm dissapointed that he has not seen much of the park this season.
Nice site btw.
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Do you have any information on whether the finer points have been ironed out yet? When this motion was 1st put forward, as it stood then, Liam Coyle (a local man and Derry City legend) would have been classed as a non home grown player, because Derry play in the Irish Free State league, and not in the north.
I ask this, because closer to home, i wouldnt have considered someone like Liam Miller to have been anything other than homegrown, as things stand, had he not been a you know what, which side of the fence would he have been on? Where would Aiden McGeady be? Is their a certain age where boys that were not born in Scotland, have to have been trained by Celtic from?
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The official line seems to refer to "players trained by a club's own academy" and "players trained by other clubs from within the same association". There is no specific mention of nationality or age, although presumably there is a more detailed document somewhere behind this piece (below). The definition of "academy" will be a key point also.
From UEFA.com:
"Homegrown plan wins approval
Thursday, 21 April 2005
Europe's national football associations have approved UEFA's proposals on the local training of players at the XXIX Ordinary UEFA Congress in Tallinn, Estonia today.
Essential for football
The presidents of UEFA's 52 member associations also issued a declaration endorsing UEFA's proposals. They insisted that the training and development of young players was essential for football's well-being, to provide talent in each European country and also help increase the quality of, and competition between national teams.
Part to play
"The training and development of young players is of crucial importance to the future of football. Every football club in every national football association should play a part in this process," the declaration said.
Local talent
"Football clubs have an important social and educational role in their local communities, in their regions, and in their countries. In this context, the nurturing of local talent is not only beneficial for football as a sport. It is also beneficial for society as a whole.
Sporting contest
"UEFA recognises that finance plays an important part in football today. But football should not be a mere financial contest. It should above all be a sporting contest. This sporting element means that every club must accept some responsibility for training, and not rely solely on acquiring those players who were trained by others.
Pool of talent
"Training should be encouraged in every national member association of UEFA. This will, in turn, help to provide a pool of playing talent in every European country and can also help to increase the quality of, and competition between, national teams."
Consultation process
UEFA's proposals on local training of players were issued recently, following an extensive consultation process with all of the major stakeholders in European football. The regulations would apply to future UEFA club competitions, and UEFA has also asked its associations to consider applying the same rule to their domestic tournaments.
Academy plan
Under the proposals, the 'A' list that teams submit for UEFA club competitions would continue to be limited to 25 players, and from season 2006/07, at least two places on this list would be reserved for players trained by a club's own academy with a further two places for players trained by other clubs from within the same association of the said club.
Extra places
In the following two seasons, one additional place for a club-trained player and one additional place for an association-trained player would be reserved on the 'A' list, so that by the 2008/09 campaign, each club would have in its 25-man squad four club trained and four association-trained players.
Better balance
UEFA is concerned that some clubs are not training enough of their own players, but simply taking them from elsewhere. The measures have the objective of creating a better balance in domestic competitions, preventing clubs from simply 'hoarding' players in squads and creating a system whereby locally-trained players would be given a greater opportunity to play regularly in club sides - thereby guaranteeing a large reservoir of talent for national teams.
'Fundamental importance'
"It is a matter of fundamental importance for the future of football," UEFA vice-president Per Ravn Omdal told the Congress in Tallinn. "We have to improve the quality of player training - and after a consultation process on our proposals, we believe that a broad consensus has emerged.
'Future of football'
"UEFA has a responsibility to deal with the issue to safeguard the future of football. Not enough is being done to train young players."
©uefa.com 1998-2005."
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If Celtic were to move into the EPL would scottish players bought from the Spl ie.Riordan be considered as 'foreign'.
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As far as I am aware a player under 21 that has been trained by the club for two years would be classed as an acadmy player. Similarly if another player trained within an SPL club for two years and under 21 they would qualify in that catagory. If Celtic were to move to EPL the players would have to have trained under that association
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Off topic again!
Paul - I checked out the Bosmans available in the summer from the link to the side of the page and saw Marek Mintals name on the list. Is this right enough?
Kevin Murray, Cleland
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I cant see how these uefa proposals will make a big difference to how celtic is run.
The changes are only stipulated for thier competitions with a reccomendation to countries individual leagues. Maybe uefa might just get told to get stuffed by the g-14 or 20 whatever it is today. We might just be witnessing the begining of a rift between the two.
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Off topic, reading the celtic {toe the line} view the other day I noticed that the new jungle singing section is now to become a reality.
The new jungle now thats a laugh comapare the two. The original cram packed, intimidating, songs sung that were popular at the time, no club influence.
The new jungle sanatisation of songs sung, supporters aware that only certain songs will be tolerated, expulsion if people divert from the clubs control and view of whats accepatble. Show me the way to amarillo and over an over will be the norm. Be telling us what to think and eat next.
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In my opinion this ruling will be to Celtic's advantage. Other clubs such as Arsenal have stated they will use thier same sytem only use all these players as subs in the squad. We should embrace it. Chelsea have done it right, they knew about this ruling in advance, a lot of advance, hence the signings: Cole, Lampard, Bridge, Johnson etc... We will not reach this level for a long time but a simliar idea can be done in Scotland. We should be looking at Zander Diamond and Derek Riordan for starters, two future Scotland internationals. Anyone remember the nationality of those players who made us great?
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Am I the only person that thinks that the current crop of youngsters at Celtic Park are no better than the other 'promising youngsters' over the past 20 years.
Going through the list of players that have been mentioned previously, and have all had first team experience.
Marshall - Played fantastically well against Barca and Rangers, but his form earlier in the season was awful. By his own admission he wasn't concentrating.
McManus - This guy is on par with Jim Lauchlin. Too slow and not Celtic class.
Kennedy - Far too slow. Is remembered by Celtic fans for a great game in the Camp Nou, but has had a number of howlers. Had his injury not happened then he'd be playing for a lower Premier League side. Future Celtic captain, you're having a laugh.
McGeady - The best of the bunch, although at times he looks as though he should be in the circus, not a football field. Instead of passing the easy ball, has got to beat players 15 times.
Wallace - The poor mans Brian McLaughlin.
Beattie - Has the control of an incontinent pensioner.
I am not being over cynical here, but these guys are just not good enough. I am hoping that the 16/17 year olds will prove to be better prospects than these guys.
Barry T Woodlock
The Bridgeworks
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That is a fair point Woodie.
People seem to go misty eyes when John Kennedy's name is mentioned, but they fail to remember the number of occasions that he was rank for us.
He is on par with Malky McKay. A good, honest professional, but is never going to take you to the heights that we should be aiming for.
Jan Scott
Bellshill
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Barry,
Whilst I agree with you that the youth players that have emerged in the past 20 years have been poor, I feel that you are being a bit harsh on the current group.
It shows the state of the Celtic defence at the moment when Kennedy is arguably our best defender. I agree though, that we should be aiming our sights higher.
The rest of your ratings are fair with the exception of McGeady. I feel that he should be used sparingly at the moment to avoid burn out, as we have seen in recent weeks. I think that he would be more beneficial as an attacking midfielder, playing through the centre.
Martin Connelly
New Zealand
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There is a good bit of chat going around that Quinn is stepping down as he is to retire as he is 70 this year. Apparently, Celtic have someone who resigned from a city bank today. Watch this space for more news.
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Barry - You sound as if you have been training with these guys for years! Have you? If not then your comments are ridiculous!
Beattie - a natural finisher, good in the air, quick and strong, thrives on confidence
Wallace - a nutural left sided winger with a good cross and the ability to beat a man, disciplined
McGeady - give him time, he will get a lot better, his faults are due to his age
Kennedy - on what basis can you doubt his pace, i have seen him training first hand, he is as fast as any other defender at CP probably faster, he lunged in a bit too often but so did Balde when he started out
Develop these qualities with first team experience then we have a formula for success. There are also a number of other talented youngsters coming through.
McManus - admitidly will only be good for cover in a MON team
Marshall - excellent shot stopper with great potential
Maloney - set piece expert, clever player with great technique and a good eye for goal
O'Dea - o towering centre back with the ability to pick a pass
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Anonymous 9.26,
What is wrong with Amarillo? :)
I had it as my first wedding dance, before it went mainstream.
Stephen Connelly
Next to the Lithuanian Club
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Have to disagree with Woodie. How can we properly asess these guys when we do not give them a chance.
JFK is a good prospect, as good if not better than the so called mega atar Woodgate who everyone rates but as far as I can see has done nothing to merit his status or the massive price tags he commands.
Sean and Beatts both been injured Jury still out on whether they will make it.
McManus never given a chance when MON continually goes out and brings in DUDs such as Henchoz or plays half fit Joos or Ulric or even Sutton out of position ahead of him. If MON didn't rate him why give him a 2 yr deal last season?
Wallace possibly yes he will be a poor mans McGlaughlin but it doesn't help when all you here at CP these days is when one of the lads makes a mistake is 59000 cursing, sighing, booing for the slightest error. Yes the days of the Lions aren't here, but as one not brought up watching the Lions, I feel they are now more of an albatross round the club and young players neck than anything else.
The lions won sweet FA until Stein arrived, how conveniently is this forgotton by those who go on about them such as my old man. The pressures now, with every error not only played out in front of larger audiences at CP but also televised as well must be immense.
You have to wonder if it is also our fault as fans that no player has been fully developed into our set up since Peter Grant and stayed there?
Are we really the 12th man now, do we really help inspire the boys. When Marshall made a few mistakes, i witnessed people screaming at him as if he was the Rangers keeper. FFS, his mistakes were nothing compared to big Rabs v the Currants but we expect him as a youngster just to slot in fully developed and experienced into the First team set up. Get real! They will make mistakes as they gain experience. It is by not giving them a regular chance that they continually fall by the way side, a la Fotheringham, Lynch, Hayes et al. MON's inability to use subs is a major problem for these kids. bringing on Henchoz v Livvy proved to me that a kid at Parkhead is better leaving earlier rather than later to make it.
I would love to see the kids break through, but we collectively have to realise that it is by encouraging and developing these guys naturally that we will succeed. At present we are not doing this. We as fans and MON with his substitute tactics are not helping this at present.
Rugby Bhoy
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OFF TOPIC
Paul,
After weeks of being static, the Celtic share price has started to move. (Just a few days after Fargo's last post)
I doff my hat to you Fargo...
dialupcelt
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True Tim - I am basing my assumptions on watching first team and reserve team action.
Kennedy is a quick player over 100 metres, however is Derek Whyte-like on the turn.
Wallace will never be a player. End of story. He can't beat a man and his crossing rarely gets past the first defender.
Beattie will score goals, however he is like a headless chicken when he is running with the ball.
All three players will make decent Premier League players, but none of them yave the quality required to take us to the next level.
Barry Woodlock
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young players don't have a hope of feeling relaxed at celtic park and playing their own game as the so called supporters expect them to be world beaters and not make mistakes.
how many times has McGeady got abuse over the last few weeks for misplaced paces etc.
if the young players are still making the same mistakes after a year or two of 1st team experience then there not good enough, making assessments on 20 mins here a game every couple of months etc is not on.
Next time a youngster gets a chance get behind them don't moan and groan and also don't expect them to be perfect.
the bottom line is "children are our future" :-) and if we keep Bellamy then we are going to see a lot more of the promising youngster coming in and learning from their mistakes.
it will be hard but it will have to be done.
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dialupcelt, breaking cover to make a pointed observation. I had not noticed the 10% incline in the value of my CCP assets.
Interesting movement, not one I expected either before a share issue. I wonder, I wonder, is Fargo making his move! High time we had a gunslinger back in town ;-)
Stephen Connelly, small world, I was in the ‘Lithy’ car park only this morning. I turned into the road works by mistake and used the car park to affect my escape.
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Paul 67 - what are the possible implications of the share increase. I always read Fargo's comments but they make as much sense to me as the clues on Dusty Bin.
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VargasShampoo, the lower the share price, the better value current investors get at a share issue.
I predicted the fall since January (20% before this rebound) as those people waiting on a share issue would not have an interest in buying before then.
The increase is either random, or someone who is not currently a large shareholder is making a move.
Fargo, as usual, has not left much info to follow up on, and you would really need to have been paying attention to even find the clues he has left.
Time to worry about this next week. Before then we have a game to win. Wish I had my usual bright outlook for it.
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The shares certainly have been more active than of late. Since the low of 44p on 31 March, 229,174 shares have changed hands (remember for every buyer there must be a seller so 114,587 have been sold and 114,587 have been bought. At 45/46p or so this translates into around £50k in monetary terms (46p times 114,587). Average daily volume over the past 3 months has been 9,207. Volume on 19 April was 78,792 and volume today (Friday) was 49,200, so someone appears to be buying them.
All the best.
GM
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Paul67
"Time to worry about this next week. Before then we have a game to win. Wish I had my usual bright outlook for it".
Look like I'm not the only Tim worried about whether we go out and murder these Huns, bigots, red hand saluters on Sunday playing to our potential, or just show up in the same form as in the second half at Celtic park last time.
Agree with some of the previous comments regarding the youngsters, how can they improve if they're not used.
There's currently a very good article on E-Tims about the good and bad of MON and BQ, it also addresses MONs player dealings, worth reading and would make a good topic here.
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Maybe it's no bad thing we're not overly confident. I was certain we'd do them when they came to The Park: we lost 2-0. The last game at Morder I was sure we'd seek instant revenge for being put out the League Cup. I even put on a bet for a 3-0 victory and Sutton to score first. 3-0 to the Huns and Sutton first to be sent off would've been closer!! This game, I'm not too sure, which is probably no bad thing given my recent track record.
All the best.
GM
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Oregonbhoy,
I read the article on etims. It is indeed a good piece. It is nice to know that there are plenty of celtic fans, other than those on here, not just accepting the spin from the media and indeed the key players at our club (it still is our club, despite DD's major shareholding).
MON deserved lots of kudos for taking us from where we were to the heights of Seville, but has he taken us far as he can. I hope not. From the rumours that go round (since we are not party to what is said within the walls of CP or the dressing rooms up and down the country) MON is a good motivator. I hope he is at his best on Sunday. I know that the huns need the win more than we do, but from a confidence point of view and to restamp our superiority over rangers, we need the win pretty badly too.
A draw would make for a nervy run in all round.
I hope agathe makes it on sunday (and I never thought I would be saying that for a domestic match). He gives the defence more balance. We have to ensure we don't concede on sunday. I think we will score, perhaps more than once, but I think it is more important to keep the orcs at bay.
Enough of a friday nights ramblings. I'll need to get out more.
come on the hoops!
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Oregon boy,
at first glace your name looks like something else, so forgive me for not taking your point serious at first.(orange boy if your wondering).But hey lighten up, we WILL beat the huns, no doubt about it.We havn't really gave them a proper doing for a real while,so i'll enjoy that.Stop worrying and enjoy the sweet taste of success(come sunday).
ps.apologies in advance if i'm way of the mark,and the Dark Lord provides a miracle to keep the league intresting.
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Read the e-tims article.I would say that this topic has been debated here previously although maybe not as the main blog.
MON's motivational skills are not in doubt but i'd like to see him motivate and organise a group of talented,technically gifted players who won trophies and entertained than what we are watching now.It remains to be seen whether he has the bravery/ability to make the difficult decisions in the summer that are required to augment an ageing and fading team.
Time will tell but my concern is that he may not be up to it,but I hope I'm wrong.That said,this weekend is the most important thing,three points for the Hoops and another title should be in the bag.Fingers(and everything else!!) crossed.
BankieBhoy
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I will go for a 3-1 win for the hoops on Sunday.
God knows what those odds would be.
I wont find out because I will be going nowhere near a bookmakers over the weekend after they pocketed my yearly gambling contribution at the recent Nationals.
Anyways, I'd like to ask a couple of questions about shares.
If, and its a BIG if, DD wanted to plough some of his cash into the club (share issue) without gaining complete control>>>>>>
1 - Would he need a significant investor (in the background) to be buying up X amount of shares, to compete against his current holding and to keep the ratio favourable?
2 - Would that "significant investor" be playing against or in the same team as DD?
dialupcelt
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Dialupcelt,
Of course you know that the "friends of DD" have a significant holding in the club? DD will not relinquish control - not now.
Why is the share price going up - do all these "friends" know something?
Paul - remember you accussed me of taking the credit for claiming the share price was being manipulated. Still think that?
With every passing week I see the sad story I foretold unravelling.
No matter for now - the battle resumes on Sunday. Will the team rise to the challenge this one last tim.
Hail Hail
NegAnon
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Anonymous 09:00 PM
Overly confident ? I'm caught between looking forward to gubbing the B*str*ds, and dreading a visit from the only hun in the place at 0800hrs Monday morning, I only see him when they win. It's Friday evening here and the andrenalin (fear?) has started already.
Themadmurph 10:36
Yes the article make you think, big problem is, it's accurate about MON, is he really that fussy that so many trialists have failed ? if so when is he going to start looking at a better calibre of player, or are the scouts just shite, and sending all these dumplings for a trial, does anyone know what the final descision was with the young "up and coming" Polish internationalist.
sean.zo88 12:41
ORANGE BOY from Oregonbhoy ? is this a wind up, no on checking the time your mail was sent out I realised that, 1 - you've probably just got in, full of the bevvy, and your eyes are not quite focusing properly and 2- you never pulled any skirt and have nothing better to do than visit this site and mistake fellow tims for the lower end of the animal kingdom, on second thoughts maybe with that visual problem it's as well you didn't pull a bird, you'd have regreted it in the morning !!
So all is forgiven, if we beat the huns/orcs on Sunday you can call me anything you like.
Bankiebhoy 12:53
Yep, the old suad is getting older an now St. Martin has to prove he can change direction and has a plan B, I think one of the reasons we're all worried (some more than others) is that in five years he hasn't shown it.
I'm hoping that he's just playing poker and is not showing (anyone) any of his cards.
Dialupacelt 1:08
Christ at that time in the morning and you want to bring up the old shares/financial/wheres DDs money, couldn't you pull a bird either ?
All the best for sunday bhoys!
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dialupcelt, clearly indicating that investors will be acting in concert. There have been rumours of Celtic front-line investors having borrowed from friends in the past, none of our business, of course, but there is no reason why it would not happen again.
Neg Anon, yes I still believe that your conspiracy theories about suppressing the companies value are wide of the mark, especially when such small share movements can do the same.
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Celtic will roll over the hun on sunday not just beat them but roll over them . MON signings being brought into question. Fernandez bought for 1 million just prior to the collapse of the market as we knew it. Fernandez never bought to be first team player rather for cover in case of serious injury to first team players. Sylla 600 g come on what do you expect not good enough for the first team but at the time good enough for cover like fernandez. Laursen again probaly not good enough for the first team but like the two above cheap decent cover for the first team. Didier bloody good days work, bobo bloody good days work, varga bloody good days work, the fees for these three are minimal for what you would pay in the english market.
The big buys hartson, sutton ,thompson, lennon have all served the club extremely well, we would not have reached seville without them. When u look at the total cost in fees for these players app 18 million not a bad days work if you ask me. Remember these were all signed before sky tv decided to stab scotland in the back in favour of la liga.
Then you come to juninho, camara. It is well documented the situation MON and his wife were going through at the begining of last season. Give the guy a break ffs, he brought in players on loan see how they go it might work out it might not. This to me is sound business say we had purchased camara for say 6 million and he took the huff and decided to sit on his back side for seasons to come, just as he was prepared to do with wolves. Juninho the same short contract didnt work out off you go, celtic are not in a financial position to allow such big earners not too change the course of games.
Where would we get experienced players like hartson, sutton, lennon and thompson in the bosman market?. Nowhere is the anwser. Do celtic have the 20 million to replace these players I think not Do celtic have the 20 million to enhance the playing squad in the areas we all know need re juvenating time will tell.
Mon stated if he had 10 million to replace the king he would have found it very very difficult to do so. Look at the shite as in raphael debacle, cost celtic a pretty penny with no return. Mon is being cautious with what means he has at his disposal, imagine the scenario where we had many long term injuries ie petrov, didier, sutty, thomo what would you prefer in games that celtic seem to HAVE to win every one, lambert coming on with eperience or a 18 year old boy untested at any level apart from under 21 s. Reality needs to be put in place here. I believe there will be quite a bit of movement at celtic park this summer with a few players going and a few coming in, hopefully one welshman for 5 million to begin with, I have my doubts tho.
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