 Sunday, May 01, 2005
A 90 minute window into the fragile soul of Celtic on show against Hibs
I have seen some bad Celtic performances in my day. 1 – 3 home defeats against Partick Thistle at Hampden, and that epoch making night against Inverness Caledonian Thistle spring to mind. Today’s reversal by the same score against Hibernian must rank up there with the worst of them. Celtic were truly awful.
Replace Bellamy with Maloney, Sutton with McGeady and Agathe with Valgaeren and you have changed Celtic from a team of ruthless combatants into a fragile group of individuals.
Hibs were a credit to their exceptional manager. Riordan played with a languid precociousness. He has ‘it’, and he does not need to exert himself too much to prove the point. His gallus back-heel which changed the flow of play for the first goal was a worthy statement on his season – he also defended well enough to rob McGeady a couple of times.
By throwing Maloney into the fray only four games before the end of the season, Celtic have confirmed the weakness of their squad. This is not a comment on Maloney himself, what chance does he have of performing at his best when he has not had a competitive start in months? Much the same as Beattie had last week.
As I have been saying all season, the ‘big-guy-at-the-back’ strategy is no longer fit for purpose. At Ibrox last week Balde and Varga put head, legs and bodies in the way of anything that came their way. Against a better footballing team – and I do not mean Milan here, I am talking about Hibs – they are caught short.
They do not possess the speed or touch for the SPL, and now play with a nervousness which has contributed to so much excitement at Celtic Park this season.
McGeady would do well to consider the last four years of Shaun Maloney’s career. Back in 2001 Shaun had the movement of a pinball. He could turn, dribble and finish. A lack of money last summer opened a window for him which injury quickly closed again; however, his career has not progressed since he made his debut that great afternoon at Ibrox.
Where Aiden McGeady’s Celtic career goes next has yet to be determined, however, I cannot name you a single example of a player in the last twenty years who has fulfilled his early promise. His predecessors all follow a similar pattern. Skilful promise gives way to indifferent anonymity; what are Hibs doing with Riordan that we as a club seem incapable of doing?
Petrov, Sutton, Lennon and Thompson are all personal favourites of mine – and all will be good for next season, including Lennon, however, with no effective competition they are not being pushed. Can you name me one player who looks capable of replacing any of them?
If we had someone pushing Petrov for his place would we see more performances akin to what was on display at Ibrox last week? You bet. The truth is that we have no competition for places, and the promise of youth is still only promise. If McGeady and Marshall are closest to first team standard, we will need to look beyond this source for next season.
This week John Hartson, the honest player that he is, told us that he was concerned Martin O’Neill would not be keen to re-sign him this season. This has been a season of contrasts for the big player. He has returned an excellent number of goals from open play and won player of the year, despite Jackie McNamara being a clear winner in my book, however, the signs of decline are there for all to see.
We are all getting older and John is no exception. He is a player with a healthy reputation and residual value. Will Martin cash his chips in? Despite what his few critics say about him, Martin O’Neill knows more about this business than any of us, John Hartson’s future at the club will be far from settled.
Will any of this change the destination of the SPL? Let me put it this way, would you swap squads with Rangers right now? Would you swap league positions with them? Didn’t think so, so let’s have less panic; Bobo and Stanislav are doing enough of that for all of us.
The core of this Celtic team are Chris Sutton, Neil Lennon, Alan Thompson, Stillian Petrov, Didier Agathe, Jackie McNamara, and, of course, Craig Bellamy. When three of them are missing and another couple are off form, we are vulnerable - this is what happened today.
I expect them all back for next week.
81 Comments:
-
Spot on with this Paul - this really took me back to the early 90's with what was on show - trying not to panic though but they aren't making it easy......
-
Im afraid the season post-Henrick was always going to be a struggle, but frankly Im amazed we find ourselves in this position with 3 games left.Had it not been for the loan deal of Bellamy,i fear we could have been cast adrift in the league by now and probably would have lost to one of the worst Rangers teams in recent history.The blame for this must lie squarely at the managers door.The squad is crying out for an overhaul.Balde and Hartson have been retained on presumabely beter terms,it now looks like Lennon will join them.Its patently obvious to me that these 3 players either dont have the talent or the legs to represnt Celtic at the highest level. Add Stan Varga and your goalkeeper of chioce and we have almost 50% of the starting 11 not good enough.Should celtic stumble over the finish line, as i fully expect them to do, it shouldnt paper over the cracks of what is a pivitol point in the O'Neil era.His 5 year reign has provided more memories than the sum total of watching celtic from the early 80's and I will always be in his debt for that.But now is the hardest job,breaking up an ageing team and rebuilding.I question whether he as the appetitie anymore.I hope im wrong but i think we are watching the final stages of the Martin O'Neils tenure
-
Interesting point to note that Walford's son has requested a move from his school. He will not be attending next term, the two men usually go hand in hand, literaly.....
Celtic have been threatening us with a defeat like this for a while and it is well documented that lack of pace at the back is our achillies heel. We did not have the Beallamy 'get out of jail free card' to play today and Celtic just simply folded.
All credit to hibs they are a great team who play football the right way.
Paul, you ask why Celtic cannot develop players in similar vain to Riordan. The answer is simple. He was made the main main after he proved his potential. These clubs can take the chance and say to the kids - ok son youve got the potential now turn it into ability. Being first name on the team sheet does so much for a players confidence and has a bigger effect than most care to envisage. Players like Riordan and McGeady thrive on confidence and when given a run in the team it can make thier learning process go a lot, lot faster. For example, make Bellamy the main man and lok what you get out of him.
Celtic will rarely through a player in, allow time for him to adapt. Why can't they do this? Because people will publish atricles absolutely slating the team if they lose.
-
I thought I would post this little bit of reasoning here to try and help stem the flow of panic:
At the time of writing, Celtic have three matches left to play, whilst Rangers have four - their first being a difficult trip to Pittodrie.
Celtic currently lead Rangers with a five-point advantage, and depending on the result obtained by Rangers in their forthcoming match against Aberdeen, that figure could drop to two points, four points - or remain at five.
However, try to remember that Aberdeen have scored only one goal against Rangers all season, but have conceded nine. Similarly, they have earned only one point against the Glasgow side.
Similarly, Aberdeen haven't beaten Rangers in any competition since December of 1999, and they haven't won at Pittodrie since January 1998.
But in order for Rangers to have any hope of snatching the league title from Celtic at this late stage in the season, they need to earn a maximum of 12 points from their remaining four games - just to be sure.
Nothing less than four victories will secure the title for them; they simply cannot rely on the hope of Celtic dropping any more points.
The goal difference stands at +1 in favour of Rangers.
However, consider this: Celtic need only seven points from a possible 9 in their remaining three games in order to keep the SPL championship trophy clearly in sight.
It will be a nervous time, make no mistake, with only one match remaining at home, a difficult trip to Tynecastle and a season-ender at Fir Park - but the toughest test of all remains for Rangers; a trip to Easter Road on the last day of the season against Hibernian.
I know which draw I would have preferred.
-
It's all very well saying we only seven points out of possible nine, but anyone who watched that performance today will know that 7 points from our last three games is far from guaranteed.
I have to wonder what Henchoz is doing every day in training if he can't get into the team before Varga, Joos or Balde. The defence is a joke.
As much as I'd love to see Bellamy stay, to be honest I'm starting to think that if we've got £6M to spend this summer we'd be beter spending it on three £2M players than one £6M player !
-
Hi Paul,very suprised,everyone knows change is needed.look at our bench today ,just too many making no contribution,no hunger,passion.We need to make major changes regardless of the the league.
-
Paul, You got it with the observation of insufficient competition on the main guys..I had never thought about it that way and you're right.
truetim, dead right too about not allowing bedding in time for the young guns. Other teams have no option, Celtic do and they pay for it in the long run.
martin, you have a point although the Hibs loss has just breathed life back into the blue lungs. They might just squeeze a perfect record over the next 4 games. I think we are the ones with the pressure on. RFC has already been written off so what do they have to lose.
We all know how our team plays when they start to get nervous....
Fargo, wouldn't want you to be labelled a jinx by your presence at the game today. Can you get the Big Guy to apply divine intervention on the remaining games please. Check out John Prine's latest album (Fair & Square). You will love the words.
-
Morning Paul, fellow tims.
Can't fault what you say above Paul.Once again the "fans" at Celtic Park embarrassing the club and the team again.Or should I say "customers".Ten minutes to go,we are fighting from 2 goals down with the title on the wire and a large portion of the crowd head for the exits.I have griped about this before,but yesterday took the biscuit.This team needs the fans behind them,at this stage of the season more than at any other time.Okay the football on show was,as has been stated, pretty dire,but,it certainly isn't going to get any better with the constant groaning any time we go behind,and everybody pissing off 10 minutes before the end,especially from a game of this importance.2 weeks ago we had lost the title,last week we were certainties,this week, booed off the park.Save the criticisms for the pub after the game or for forums like this or write to the club or stand outside the main stand and abuse whoever you like.
But please, could we all get behind the team, and get them over the line to be Champions once again.As I have stated before,have a look at the support at the away games,even if you don't like some of the songs that are sung,and take our cue from them.Support through thick and thin is what makes our fans the so called "greatest in the world".Not moaning our way through important games,and clearing out brfore the end.
C'mon the Celts,we are still ahead and with our support that is where you will stay until the end of the season.
-
Martin - sadly seven points may not be enough – we could still lose it on goal difference.
Very good article Paul, and some good comments from readers (also at the end of the previous article).
Yesterday was DIRE. Yes, we missed Bellamy, but then he did play when we lost at home to Hearts a few weeks back.
That is now SEVEN home games we have lost in the last 13 months. Compared with only two in MON’s first 3 years and 8 months. And I think that in all seven we have conceded at least two goals. What is going on?
Yesterday’s first goal had a bit of a look of Basle (home) all over again. And the other two weren’t much better. What do these guys do on the training field???
The first line of defence is attack. When Henrik was here he put pressure on the opposition and forced them into making mistakes. Now we have the Michelin Man up front! The opposition is getting too much time on the ball and are able to create things.
Hibs are a decent side, but they are not Barca. We made them look like them though.
CanajunBhoy (from previous article) : "Skill + speed + possession = Success" Add to that, hunger.
It looks like this team has lost its desire. Maybe they have done it all already so they feel they don’t have to put in the effort anymore (Rocky 3 - Eye Of The Tiger anyone? :-) ). These guys know their name will be on the teamsheet every week. They know they are picking up big wage packets no matter how well or badly they play. This has been evident all season. MON should have addressed this earlier in the season and dropped players when they were off form. That would have told them what they needed to do to stay in the team, and they would have the hunger now at the brown-trouser stage of the season. It is too late now though. Now he has to stick with these guys and hope they can pull it off. Here’s hoping yesterday was the last kick up the backside they need and they can go on from here and win the last three games.
MON has some big decisions to make this summer. Yes, it is easy for us to criticise and be armchair managers. But he is paid big bucks to make big decisions. All the great managers have been ruthless. MON must develop this trait. Otherwise I fear we will be knocked out in the CL qualifiers, whether it is one round or two we have to play.
Paul – one thing in your article I would disagree with, when you said that Maloney hasn’t made any progress since Ibrox 2001. I think he played really well towards the end of the 02-03 season when he got a run of games. The Dundee 6-2 game springs to mind. The ball was played to feet, and he caused all sorts of problems for defenders. I seem to remember a decent performance in the home game v Stuttgart too, when Henrik was out with his broken jaw. Since then, however, it hasn’t really happened for him. I wonder how much longer we can wait for potential to develop into something tangible.
Three weeks ago I said that we hadn’t won the league in a year ending in 5 since 1915.
I said that championship-winning teams are almost always the ones who lose least games and concede least goals.
I said that it was beginning to feel like the end of 97-98 again. Well we know what happened that year – they won the last derby, but we won the league.
I really hope I’m wrong in all this, but I’m getting really worried....
GlassTwoThirdsFull (contemplating change of name to GlassTwoThirdsEmpty)
PS Maybe Stephen Glass could do us a favour again. Where’s Ally Mitchell these days....?
-
Hail Hail Lhads,
Couldn't believe the result today - beggars belief that we've already squandered a 7 point lead and appear to be playing "pass the parcel" with the Huns for the League Championship.
Yesterday should have been about picking up the 3 points and putting pressure on Rangers - that is a winner's mentality that we've been used to seeing. To not do so does raise serious concerns about the desire at CP just now.
I still expect to see us finish up at Champions, but on current form it looks like we're going to be put through the emotional wringer with regards to doing the Double.
Cheers
Kevin.
PS> Martin - gonna please start playing Stan P is his proper position......
-
Hello Paul. First time poster and congratulations on a great site.
Anyway, to business. I'm afraid I have to agree with my fellow poster Truetim earlier. Celtic have been threatening us with a defeat of this nature for a few weeks now. Firstly, full credit to the Hibs players. They were excellent and played to their manager's formation well, with the possible exception of a small wobble after we scored. However, that is the main difference. Hibs had a formation - we did not.
We had so many square pegs in round holes yesterday it was scary. We had Joos playing on the left - he is a right-sided central defender so why play him there?? If Laursen was fit enough to be on the bench why not play him there where he is used to playing. Jackie ended up as a right sided midfielder, Aidean was moved about from left to right to back again, Stan Petrov started on the right, came inside and then went back out right again, and as for Alan Thompson - well, there are single-celled lifeforms on Mars that can tell he is not a Central Midfielder but low and behold he starts in Central Midfield. Was it a cause in his new contract that he starts the game in Central Midfield as that's the only reason I can come up with??
We seem determined to loose this title to the worst collection of players from the dark side ever. I do not except the excuse that we had some "big" players missing. The team out there should be good enough to give Hibs a game at least, if not win especially at home - assuming the players all start to where they are used to playing. However, where they play is down to the manager.
The team is aging and need fresh faces. However, if you are Brian Quinn and the board are you going to give the manager millions to spend?? His record in the recent transfer market is not glittering - I mean why buy Juninho if you do not know where to play him. After Seville I would have been distraught if O'Neill left. Now, while not estatic I would not be too down. I know a number of Celtic fans that are now beginning to form the same opinion - we seem to be content to almost stumble over the line. It seems a long time since we went three years almost undefeated at home in the league. Now we are lucky to go three games.
-
Good article paul. Regarding petrov however I dont see it being a matter of someone pushing him for his place. I see it more him playing in his best position on a regular basis. Playing the lad out wide on the right clearly limits his attacking prowess. I do not understand your comment on big john ie contract he has signed a new one how long ? and how much ?.
I agree that lennon, sutton,petrov thompson et al have been great for the club, nonetheless this senior playing core needs to be refreshed, changed, however you want to put it. Sutty is a great utility player as is jackie macand should be retained sutty is a very expensive one but in my view worth at least another season. To my way of thinking the situ involves hartson thompson and lennon, and which of these should move on.
I think the world of neil but he is now 34 and the pace of games appears to be catching up with him. Thompson has had a bad season apart from the wonder goal at parkhead against the orcs. Big john, player of the year and if he had more mobility around him could still do a job for us the point is he doesnt.
This team has to start with petrov in his best position and be built around that whether that means big john and sutty viaing for 1 place so be it.Working from the front I would look to the following.
Bellamy
Hartson/sutton
Petrov
new midfielder
new midfielder
lennon or macnamarra holding role
didier
new central defender
balde
new left back.
Experienced keeper / marshall.
Sutton and jackie can slip into positions during bans injuries etc positons from midfield to back left right back and attack.
This leaves the likes of beattie maloney kennedy {hopefully}, marshall,wallace mcgeady and 1-2 from the u21s as back up.
Some of the passing from celtic was shocking on saturday we need fresh blood who are of petrovs age who are comfortable on the ball.
Varga and balde at the back just does not work against smaller more mobile teams. We need a centre back to compliment balde not one in the same mould. We are crying out for a natural left back, we are crying out for 1-2 midfield players with steal who are comfortable on the ball. All in all change is neccessary and needs to be done now.
Poss - beattie via ing for a place up front with sutty partnering bellamy{hopefully}.
-
Martin O'Neill has been wonderful for Celtic. Three titles in 4 seasons and a UEFA Cup thrill we never thought we'd see as a generation of Celtic fans brought up with the Kellys et al and exit from Europe as predictable as Christmas itself.
Having said that, he has serious weaknesses which are only occasionally (thankfully) exposed in Scotland. Yesterday was one of those days, and even more worryingly was his apparant inability to learn from recent outing against Hearts and Aberdeen.
Three primary contributers to yesterday's loss in my view were:-
1. Long ball to Hartson
2. Inability to change tactics and team formation
3. Attitude
For me number 3 was expected after the high of last week. The first 2 are where O'Neill takes resposibility. When BBJ has clearly not got the match of the central defenders he's up agaisnt and appears to lack the heart for working at other ways of getting the better of them, the manager should change the contsant long punt to the Welshman. He didn't. Long ball after long ball gave Hibs possession that they didn't give up as cheaply as we did.
For a Celtic team to be 2 goals adrift with 10 minutes remaining and to make NO CHANGE to the team shape, pattern or personnel to attempt to bombard the opposition is inexcusable for me. It reminded me of the Shaktar game when e really needed to make inroads on an inferior goal difference and we hung on for 1-0.
This time, we appeared to hang on for 1-3??? Even of it meant Bobo up for aforemntiond long punt, or Momo (I know, but NOTHING else was happening - the status quo was surrender), or something, but to stay 4-4-2 when it hadn't worked for 80 minutes was highlighting an O'Neill weakness.
For 20 minutes against Aberdeen we played FOOTBALL. Pass after pass. We won. Lesson learned? Not a chance.
BBJ is as much a liability when he can't match the central defender as anyone on the park. In those situations the game plan needs changed and the man responsible for changing it failed us yesterday.
I hope he doesn't fail us in the 3 games left.
-
Morning Bhoyos
100% agree with Kano bout people leaving early! do they think the players dont notice 30,000 people moving out the ground! i know it was awful football but we are meant to be pushin towards a title not the bloody exit!
If you were playin how motivated would you be seein a previously quite full ground turn to almost empty when your head was already droppin gettin beat! not very i can tell you!
another thing that got me yesterday was when the wide players were in space yesterday instead of movin forwards to recieve passes they waited and waited and then recieved a pass behind them. by the time they were ready to go forward a hibs player had covered so givin them no choice but to go back to bobo or stan! we were poor! made hibs look like milan!
still confident we can overcome tfod in all this and now the players hopefully know that any more slip ups and it could all be over for us! got to stay postitive and i'd rather be where we are than were they are!
baa baa
-
Still shocked about yesterday, pass and move was all hibs done and we had no answer to it.
Tactics were all wrong, why does O'Neil continually try and play players out of posistion ?
Why does Petrov start out right thomo in the middle and when we go behind, thomo is moved out left petrov comes into the middle and the team looks more potent, if thats the what we need to do to get back into and even win games, why don't we start that way ?
The holes in our midfield were shocking the day, gaps were evident all over the park.
McGeady had no joy what so ever done the left, the right back had the beating of him all game, moved to the right he played better, then the 2nd half come and he's back out left ????
Sorry Paul but Thomo in my book has had his worst season on record, one good game doesn't do enough for me, he shouldn't be playing !
Joos I realy do feel sorry for, he's not a left back or a right back, we does MON continually play centre backs as full backs ???
People rave about the success MON has had, but honestly does anyone think that would have been the case without one Henrik Larsson ?
How many holes did he dig us out of ?
Much has been made of the atmosphere at CP, but the style of football on show at times can be awfull, at times I'm not sure if we're watching Leicester or Celtic, yes points and trophies are what its all about at the end of the day but its also about being entertained, we simply don't play football the celtic way anymore not for a long time, and before anyone goes on about Burns playing attacking football, tell me, do you enjoy watching celtic's current style of football.
The league is still in our hands and I think Aberdeen can do us a turn today and even hibs may help out, but we've been poor very poor all season and major rebuilding is now required for any kind of improvement to be seen next season.
-
How many matches does MON need to notice that playing Petrov, Thompson and McGeady out of position is leaving the team a weakened force? Actually,he does seem to notice it but almost always at a stage when we are chasing the game and by that time a goal or two behind.So what will he do next time out? Yes that's right ,he will stubbornly start with the same formation.Towards the end of the first half he pulled McGeady across to the right ,Thompson on left with Petrov through the middle and for the first time in the match I thought there was a better balance to the side. Start of the second half lo and behold McGeady is back on left again. I really do despair at his stubborness and his willingness to play so many players out of their natural position. Case in point is Joos. Through no fault of his own he was asked to play at left back (why no Ulrik who was fit enough to be on the bench ?) and was given a roasting yesterday.
A word of praise for Beattie yesterday.He received some harsh critism on this site after last week's game but yesterday he showed a fair degree of skill and determination , particularly in tight situations. His speed too gives the team another dimension and allied to his overall play he gave Celtic many more options than they previously had in the game and I would suggest he is worthy of a start next game.
Jeromek
-
Hi all Estadio here!
Shambollocks and my part in our downfall
Breakfast this morning consisted of two reheated Gregg’s pies which were left in the microwave last night, and a newly heated sausage roll! I really couldn’t be arsed with all the eggs and bacon nonsense. The coffee sits near my PC as I try to fathom out the perfidious path that led to the utter mince that was laid out on the green and frankly not so pleasant east end of Glasgow yesterday.
I will drink some of that coffee only once I have had my say.
Firstly I am not one of the sad ‘Boo Bhoy’ clones who with each passing (even if the passes sometimes go astray) game seem to be procreating on a dangerously scary scale.
I have never booed a player in the hoops, an official of the club, not even Barnes and Dalglish, and have never contemplated going to the Forge to meander aimlessly around Big W or B&Q rather than experience the adrenalin rush of pleasure and pain, hopes and fears, victory and defeat that lies in wait home or away, on the haemorrhoid inducing cold plastic seats of whatever ground we happen to playing.
This Celtic is not simply a ‘Club’. The players and the officials are not ‘them’ and the fans are not ‘us’. This ‘Celtic’ is not an institution, or a limited company, or a financial commodity, or an investment in bricks and mortar, flesh and blood that one day will yield a percentage return on a material investment.
This ‘Celtic’ is all of us! It is our heart and soul, our dreams and ambitions, our laughter and tears. Without us there is no Celtic and without Celtic there is no ‘us’.
Oh there are many, no doubt some reading this, who will think this is nothing more than the emotional claptrap of a rapid descent into the early onset of nostalgic senility!
Well let me just give you a small exemplar of my rationale.
Yesterday evening I and approximately 10 other people in my direct company spent nigh on 90% of our time talking, analysing, debating and even singing about that afternoons events at Celtic Park. As the Guinness flowed and the points were made and positions taken, agreements reached or arguments solidified, no quarter was easily given. And all because the lady loved Milk Tray! Sorry I meant and all because we all loved Celtic and not just wanted the best but because we all ‘wanted’ to want the best. That is where love begins.
Extrapolate that amount of time into a lifetimes scale and then tell me that that we do not share an invisible, mysterious and life enhancing aura that is ‘Celtic’.
The other great thing about being a Celtic supporter is the ‘Special Fish Supper’.
Estadios’ household on the day of the game is probably no different to that of any other daft Celtic worshipping fanatic.
The tried and trusted routine must be followed.
The sequence of shite, shower and shave,; the donning of white socks, clean freshly pressed Celtic Huddle Boxer shorts, faded denims, leather laced deck shoes, home or away top, and for home games a couple of pints in Sharkey’s and a 37and a half minute walk to the ground along Ballater street through Glasgow Green Football centre and up Nuneaton street, has to be adhered to.
Post match the routine is less important but usually consists of getting back to Sharkey’s, discussing the highs and lows of the game, drinking more Guinness than is good for 10 men, being threatened with an anti social behaviour order by Isa for singing too loud and too often, and all topped of by my ‘Victory Celebrating Special Fish Supper’ from Anne’s Fry in Crown street in the Gorbals.
Yesterday I didn’t have my ‘Victory Celebrating Special Fish supper’!
And why did that happen, why did we not win. Let me enlighten you.
I suppose I could put it down to the fact that we threw Aiden, Ross, Craig, and Shaun into the team and expected it to gel immediately.
Perhaps it was a contributed to by persevering with Thommo when he has had one of his own self confessed poorest seasons.
Perhaps it was down to a defence that can’t consistently defend because big Stan has to repeatedly cover for for an increasingly fragile Bobo.
Perhaps even it was down to Joos who looks more comfortable breaking forward from midfield in randomly glorious but vain attempts to atone for his failure to display the basics of fullback play.
Could it even be down to moving Stan P from his central driving role into a second tier defensive support player?
Could it be that the number of formation and tactical adjustments yesterday simply left all the players confused?
Or heaven forbid could it be that all these things occurred on the same day and that our Manager (for whom I have the greatest admiration for his dragging of us out of the gutter of 1990s despondency, and will yield to no-one in that) has in fact NOT taken us as far as he can, but that WE have taken HIM as far as we can.
Most of this season we have sat, stood, shouted, swore and chanted as with one or two notable exceptions a fairly unpalatable fare was laid before us. With little or no professional knowledge we have quietly sighed when the opportunity to transfuse the side with new blood was not taken, when the chance to rest Thommo was missed, when we failed to play to our footballing strengths, and when safety first became a stifling and corrosive fearful tactic.
If so many of us witness this and agree, then we are all either complete fools and need to be put right, or perhaps we have a point and someone needs to talk to our coaching and managerial staff.
Or perhaps it is because I got a lift to the ground yesterday rather than walking. That’s it! Of course.
Sorry Martin, Sorry Bhoys and Ghirls, Sorry world it is all down to me. I broke my routine and we got gubbed by the Hibees.
Anyway, I’ll be there next Saturday and at Motherwell. I won’t be at Tynecastle because I didn’t get a ticket. I’ll also be there next season and everyone after it that the Lord and my life-limiting-diet allows me to .
I still won’t boo, I’ll be there for the full ninety minutes and injury time, and I will still go through my match day routine.
Here’s to the oldest white sock wearing Celtic supporting fanatic in the Universe and even more
…………….Here’s to a lot more Special fish suppers
Regards
Estadio
-
I agree completely with Belshill Tim. We could be so much further ahead in my view if we only played the players in their best positions and dropped/rested the senior players for few games when their form merits it. O'Neill is complaining (again) of the players being tired, but he's had ample opportunity to rest a few of them and hasn't.
Sutton is a £6m striker. He's a decent midfield player.
Petrov is a £6m central midfielder. He's a decent wide player.
Thompson is shocking this season and should have been dropped mid- season to freshen him or his attitude up.
Hartson is one dimensional and when he isn't scoring he sin't contributing.
Our first choice team should see Bellamy and Sutton up front, Petrov behind them in central midfield and Hartson should come off the bench after an hour. Sutton tends to pick up injuries, so Hartson would always get his run of games and other injuries could allow both to be played when it's required.
Hartson scores more goals than Sutton but I think the team would score more goals with Sutton up front.
Thompson should have been sent off yesterday. It looked like he wanted to. He hasn't kicked a ball since he signed his new deal. His motivation seems to be kept for European games and he need an enormous kick up the arse. England cap? He wouldn't get a game for Scotland in his current form.
Having said all that, we are still in charge. We must win the three remaining games as yetserday's result will give Rangers the motivation we had last week. They will now win their last four games because they are coming from the lowest point and will gather momentum.
Get well soon Chris Sutton and Craig Bellamy. We'll need to score a barrowload of goals just to get the points the way the midfield and defence are playing at the moment ( Ibrox aside of course).
-
I sincerely hope the players are feeling as low as I feel today.I still can't get over just how bad we were yesterday.But the one benefit that the players have is that they can actually go out and do something about it.Which leads me to the point I am going to make.
I love this site.It is the best of it's kind after viewing many others trawling through the web.We discuss the issues facing the club and debate the ways to take the club forward but am I the only one who feels that we need to find some way of making our voices heard?
This site is a fantastic outlet for allowing suppoters to express themselves and suggest ideas,but without anyone in authority listening we are just another group of Celtic fans big on ideas and low on influence.I want us to be more than that.But how can we achieve it?
BankieBhoy
P.S. Celtic Quick News managed a two page spread in NTV yesterday.The word is beginning to spread thankfully.And you said tou could only afford to promote Lenten fasts Paul!!!
-
I'm not sure what's wrong with Celtic at the moment, but I am seriously concerned.
Firstly I look to MON continuing to play peole like Petrov out of position, but mainly in continuing to play Alan Thompson etc. who are clearly off-form....for the whole season!!
Of course this then throws up the problem of who do we replace him with, which comes back to the boad and player purchases, but surely there must be someone in the squad, or younger team set ups that could come i with the desire to succeed, and willing to give 200% EVERY game.
The sad thing about that is, when a fringe player makes an ar$e of something, they are not long in getting dropped.
The fact that the main players never lose a place makes me wonder if the attitude from these guys is right, I mean, would you abosolutely burst a gut all the time, all day every day, if you knew that it would never put you in contention for a place anyway?
I wouldn't in my own job - I would move first!
Regards,
Seggy
-
Paul
You asked “what are Hibs doing with Riordan that we as a club seem incapable of doing?” Quite simple perhaps. They have had faith in a rare talent and have played him and put up with the inevitable lapses in his form as he’s grown and matured. They of course are more likely to be able to do that with the lack of expectation that exists at smaller clubs. Can it be that simple? I’m inclined to think it is. What other reason can there be for the dearth of young talent emerging from big clubs? Answers on a postage stamp please.
Another interesting and controversial point perhaps when we moan about the loss of Larsson is to consider PSV’s loss of Ketzman Robben Rommedahl amongst others at the end of last season and their appearance in the CL semi’s. Did we miss a trick with Guus Hiddinck?
-
I've just read in a Sunday paper (The Times)that Petrov limped out of Parkhead on crutches last night anyone else got comformation of this.
Totally agree with everyone regarding players out of position, Petrov continually left the wide right position to get involved, this narrowed the play and made it easier for Hibs to block the space, Mcgeady right Thommo left was a better balance and produced the goal. Why in a first choice eleven is Jackie the left back but when there is an injury he is moved to the right with a make shift left back? If Joos is asked to play fullback, being one sided would surely suit him better on the right (i feel sorry for Joos, he's keen to impress and drive forward and willing to play where asked). Perhaps M.O.N would enjoy a seat in the stand like some other managers do, this would then allow him to view what is obvious to everyone else in the stands.
Come on the Dons
-
Can I make a comment on the attitude of the players. As with recent games we have started games very poorly and ended up fighting to get back in the game yesterday. Once we got the goal back we seemed to take a breather, this allowed Hibs back in the game.
On reflection, I wonder if your last contribution about the North American Tour has anything to do with this poor attitude. I've heard that the players were unhappy with the tour and that they believe that this cost the team progression in Europe this season.
Will the defeat by Hibs cause us to pull out of the competition and if so are the players gambling that they can disrupt participation in this competition but still win the league?
-
Mostly agree with Bellshill Tim (is that you Big Jim?)and U2. Our midfield does not play as a unit, when the players are out of position. We are totally disjointed and begging for the ball to be passed around us. Its as though MON is doing his pre season experimentation just now, why!!? Maloney by his own admision after a Scotland U21 game is not fit, why is he playing, pre season is when he should get his fitness, not the title run in. Joos never a left back never will, Stan and Bobo are playing like Stan and Olly, though to be fair they can see holes in the midfield and are hesitant over whether to fill them or not, particularly as moving forward can expose the lack of pace without Didier.
Does anybody know the injury situation with Big Chris, Didier and now Petrov? I'm assuming we may see wee Craig a week earlier than scheduled?
-
Good to hear from you Scottie Bhoy, thanks for your kind comments.
Estadio, excellent analysis again. Not a bad read either.
Bankiebhoy, good point about turning fans ideas and concerns into actions. Write to the club and let them know what you think, you might not get anywhere, but it would be a start. I am working on a couple of ideas myself.
Derbyshirebhoy, I am not convinced that smaller clubs having less pressure to win is the reasons Hibs develop more players than we do. Man Utd, Arsenal and Liverpool all work under greater pressure than we do and still develop more teenagers.
-
Estadio - great post. A fantastic definition of a celtic supporter.
Derbyshirebhoy - excellent point on PSV. Their losing those players is akin to us losing He**k, but they still managed to progress in Europe. What are they doing that we are not? I doubt they generate the same sums of money as us but are fairly consistent performers in Europe and can generate funds by picking up relative unknowns and moving them on for decent money as well as getting the best out of experienced pros (Cocu et al).
This is going to be a big summer for the club (isn't every summer!) we have the chance to really pull away from TFOD and keep them down for the next 5 years, and with a possible Pot2 placing in The Big Cup have the best chance so far under MON to progress to the knock-out stages. It's down to MON, the scouts and the board now.
In the meantime we need to give 100% support to the team to cross this finish line. 3 wins out of 3!
C'mon The Hoops
Kevin Murray,
Cleland
-
Hi Paul
Totally agree with your article however I would look to expand a little. I was on recently and had a pop at bbj for his lack of conviction, he still needs to contribute more and he is not in Suttons class when it comes to hold up play etc.
My gripe today is that although Thommo has had a poor run he still gives 100% and yesterday was the only guy trying in a poor midfield. We can complain about MON sending them all out in the wrong position but its up to players to impose themselves wherever they play and I agree more competition would lead to better performances however Stan Petrov is an enigma does he really think 90minutes at Ibrox is enough for the season? He cost us goals against Aberdeen, Hearts and yesterday gave the ball away too easily and then blamed those around him, he was moved into the middle and did as little as he did out wide. This guy is an international captain yet rarely shows us what he is capable of. I make no apologies but he has had his poorest season for a while and now it transpires he was injured in the first half and played on. Not good enough Paul. We have numerous players who could step in and do as good a job and there are plenty younger players who play out their skins for the reserves and the U19's.... McGlinchey , Gardyne, McParland and Ferry. I would rather we lost trying than watch that rubbish from yesterday.
One last point on Stan everybody says he is tired after his Euro campaign in Portugal he ONLY played one and a half games due to his red card then suspension so come on lets get real.
Finally bad as it was yesterday I was still signing and supporting my team and stayed till they left the park. So in the words of Delia " COME ON LETS BE HAVING YOU"
stephen with a "ph"
-
Thanks for the missing ingredient,GlassTwoThirdsFull.
So is this the magic formula? :
11(Skill+Speed+Possession+Hunger)+MON + TGFITW = Success
-
I deliberatly didn't arrange the words in the order possession,skill, speed,hunger for fear of a stinging "Anon" arrow pointing out the acronym.
-
Estadio I hope when you were enjoying your greggs the players were tucking into thier humble.
We are in serious danger of blowing this title. The football on offer needs to be addresed the fans wont stand for it anymore.
SPECULATE TO ACCUMULTE OR WITHER CELTIC .
-
Paul
I meant simply that it may have been the lack of expectation/pressure which has encouraged the managers of smaller clubs to play such as Riordan and also to illustrate the fact that our management won’t take the risk. When you look at Man U who apart from Fletcher who flits in and out has emerged since the Beckham cohort? The outstanding Stevie Gerard and possibly Carragher argue a minimal case for Liverpool whilst Wenger seems only to use Arsenal’s policy of securing young European talent when being driven by necessity through injuries or to blood the product in competitions they’re unconcerned with such as the League Cup.
You say there is no competition for our main men. Never will be if you already know you are one of MON’s favoured and likely to retain your place. There could be competition from the existing squad if only MON showed any faith in the alternatives. Mc Manus must wonder who he’s offended.
-
Firstly Estadio;That was beautiful!
If only all fans were like you then maybe there would be enough of us left to get behind the team when they really need the support.
As for McGeady, give the kid a chance!He definetly is a confidence player, to the extent of when he gets past a defender on his first attempt he will generally go on to have a good game.If he tries one of tricks and it dosen't work, half the stadium give a great big groan and he will go to give a fairly ineffective performance.(with more groans at each attemp!)
Yesterday McNamara was awful, really, really bad.(didn't boo though)Now that Ulrik is fit I think he should be straight back in the team.
Towards the end of the match MON was shouting at Thommo and he started giving lip back to O'Neill,who didn't look best pleased with his reaction.That's why he was probably trying to get himself sent off.Don't expect to see him next week.
-
MON
Has to be beaten several times with 3-5-2 to realise you can't play that way versus a 4-3-3 with pace
Porto,Rangers(even made Lovenkrands look good)
Play favoured ones even if injured in cup finals (Lubo,Lambert)
Hasn't bought a decent player since Hartson.
Plays favoured ones even if they are playing poorly.
Shows no evidence that he can change tactics
As well as the obvious (playing people out of position,not giving young players a chance)
Any wonder it has gone quiet with other clubs wanting him as their manager
Man UTD ? you're having a laugh!
Macca
-
Macca,
You'll probably be criticised for you comments but I agree with you 100% and then some! Here's a few more...
When has MON ever sold a player for money? - never, he always holds on to deadwood and pays too much in wages so we cant get shot of them (I'm sure Brian Quin has noticed this too)
When has MON ever bought a player you have never heard of? - I think Bobo is the only one, no scouting network whatsoever
I have to repeat the obvious but why does he play everyone in midfield out of position? and continues to do so even though everyone can see it doesnt work.
I no I'll get shot down but I honestly believe it's time for MON to go.
-
Hi Derekthetim here.
MON must take a fair bit of the blame for yesterday. The constant playing of players out of position allied to selecting players who have little or no match practise seriously undermines our chances. If Laursen, who doesn't let us down, had been selected Joos would not have been out of position. Equally Tommo needs to be kept on the left and not inside with Stan in central midfield. Why was the latter kept on yesterday? He was clearly struggling from early on and reportedly left CP on crutches.Beattie despite his misses looked dangerous last week and with Bellamy and Sutton out should have stated up front rather than Shaun who's played hardly any football for 18 months.
Last 3 games are going to be unpredictable especially since to all intents and purposes probably only us and the Huns have anything to play for. Teams may lie down or to put it another way can't be arsed.
Fans have nothing to be proud about. Constant carping during the match doesn't help the players and I didn't realise how many important busy people we have that clearly have more important things to do than wait till the end giving the team support. Am also sure at one point I heard "Soon there'll be no Protestants at all" as a lead in to the Soldiers Song. Those who sang that are every bit as bad the large numbers singing "No pope of Rome" at Aberdeen this afternoon.
-
I have noticed that opinions on how well (or not) Celtic are doing are usually at the extemes of the emotional scale - sack everybody, sign a new team and sack the board if we lose or everybody's magic, it the results that count and sack the board when we win. MON has delivered in every season he has been with us (2003- European final and losing the league by a goal trumps a phoney treble anytime). This season we are now into May and are leading the league and in a cup final and because teams have worked out how to play us at Parkhead we are in a tight race and the nerves are getting to the 60,000 critics who are not used to tight situations. Watching the first Hibs goal yesterday you could hear the groans and moans get louder as we missed tackles, got caught up the pitch so that by the time Riordan got to the goal he could have been blindfolded and scored as Marshall was never going to save it.
The home support are unfortunately among the most spoiled fans in the world given MON's past record with Euro and League results (no meaningful defeat to a Scottish club in 4 years). Game over with twenty minutes to go, team passing the ball about killing the game (not entertaining but effective in this results matter world) and the ground half empty at full time. Now its more difficult away team scores possible winner in the last 10 minutes and the stampede starts. It was even the same in the last Barca game people getting up to go in a 2-1 game (pre Henrik goal).As for atmosphere its now only on Euro nights that it picks up as even the game against the Orcs is losing its edge.
We now find ourselves involved in games against teams that aren't scared anymore. Yesterday Hibs would have looked at the Celtic team and seen unproven Scottish kids, three players who have only a month to go on their contracts and a bench containing no threat and would therefore have fancied their chances. We have heard often over the past 5 years about what player wouldn't want to play in front of 60,000 every fortnight when talk of signings come up. What do you think Belamy made of yesterday's "support". I'm sure he can get that any day of the week in England with no real expectation and more cash.
And while I'm rambling (not unlike MON when he has forgotten which point it is he is trying to make), the younger homegrown players don't get the chance to make mistakes because the stakes are to high when they eventually get their chance. Sutty, Lenny, Thommo et al made all the same basic mistakes many moons ago when they were younger and became better players over time as a result.Experience is not something a youngster has and is almost impossible to get on the bench and being brought on when we are 3 up or when you have to win the game on your own after the first teamers have cocked it up. Our patience only appears to last as long as the first misplaced pass or when McGeady doesn't skin the first player he takes on(which 60,000 are screaming at him to do in the first place).
The time to critisise or congratulate is after the season is over and the all important results are in. MON is getting more grief now (from fans as well as our text mad Chairman)because results have slipped lately and he might think that its not worth hanging around for his large slice of the debateable wage bill especially if he has to do the unthinkable and get rid of a few players.
"We are Celtic supporters, faithful through and through" together with "we don't care if we win lose or draw" have a hollow sound when the going gets tough. Its our team and should be backed all the way as its hard enough already with the media and refs and all our other paranoid injustices that we have concocted to contend with. Aimless ramble over and guess what we are still top of the league.
-
I still have faith in the team. Yes, it needs refreshing - has done since Seville, but I hope that they will bounce back.
In some ways we are in the same situation as we were after the first leg games against Blackburn.
Then after a very poor first leg, Celtic turned in a performance that justified our faith in them. Remember, everyone counted us out then, even though we were a goal ahead in the tie. Well, we are still 2 points ahead in the league and its still in our hands.
We can't change the sqaud before the next 3 games, so we just have to get behind the players that we have got.
-
Agree totaly with N E Bhoy MON should take a seat in the stand preferably the North Stand, he might just hear what is being said in this site constantly about playing favourites and playing players out of position.
-
One other interesting observation about MON's inability (unwillingness?) to learn from past errors, adapt or change his ways.
One of the club's most consistent performer over the past couple of seasons in my view has been Jackie McNamara. He has performed remarkably in a variety of positions with reliable consistency. You can't put a value on such dependable versatility.
He is out of contract in 6 weeks time. He has been eligable to talk to other clubs since January. What is going on?? If they are banking on Jackie's loyalty they are playing a dangerous game. Maybe someone elsewhere will see the ability and flexibility he brings and just offer him something he can't say no to. Liam Miller anyone?
I for one would be disgusted if Jackie McNamara was allowed to leave on a Bosman after what happened with Miller. This should never have gotten to this stage - the apparent lack of urgency or lack of decisiveness with O'Neill has worried us for each of the last 3 summers and January's and I think is evident again.
He has gotten away with it most times in so much as the team have usually come through in the end. Don't blame the board for this one - there was clearly money available last summer to go after Yorke, Desailly, Juninho and Camara as the clock struck midnight - that money should have been used to sign players we actually wanted and who would have given the team the best years of their careers - not twilight cameos.
And one other thing that has been lost in all the fun of the Brian Quinn text affair - Quinn was correct in his statement, O'Neill was not. That worries me.
-
Guys, we are all cut up about losing against Hibs, but I think Martin is coming in for a bit of unfair criticism.
Sure he has made mistakes, and he will no doubt make more, however, he is the best thing to happen to my team in 20 years. If we are nothing else, we will respect the man for what he has done for us and give him our backing through the difficult times.
I think I know lots about running Celtic, but this guy is so far ahead of any of us it doesn’t bear thinking about.
The day he retires from Celtic will be a very sad day indeed.
-
Paul 67,
Sorry,but I don't think MON can take usto the next level for the reasons stated above.
I think that you are showing the same misplaced loyalty he shows the older members of the team
Macca
-
The reason that Hibs,as an example,have managed to bring through youngsters is quite simply that they play them.This has been forced on them as a result of finacial constraints but the benefits they have seen are quite remarkable.
They have also appointed a Manager keen to develop these players as he knows it is the only way forward for a provincial club.Mowbray has done an excellent job but you need to give some credit to Bobby Williamson who started the ball rolling but with nothing like the same level of success as Mowbray.
My personal opinion is that the likes of Wallace,McGeady,Maloney and Beattie should be given an opportunity in the first team,though not at the same time necessarily.The only way we will find out if these guys are good enough is by playing them.
I think one of the problems we have at the moment is that MON is reluctant to drop the tried and tested when it is merited,so that in turn maybe suggests to these guys that he doesn't believe in them when it comes to the crunch games.When his hand is then forced by injuries,they are under intolerable pressure to perform.
These boys aren't stupid,they know when someone is not performing,so it must be disconcerting knowing that no matter how hard you work you won't make the starting eleven regardless of current form.
Simply put,the difference is trust.The likes of Hibs trust their youngsters,whether by necessity or not.We don't seem to trust ours.Both teams are now reaping what they have sown on two totally different levels.
BankieBhoy
-
Macca
I know what you are saying as I have been becoming increasingly concerned by some of his decisions,but then it's easy to criticise when we don't make the calls for real.
However,I believe after all MON has done for us over the last five years,he deserves to be given the chance to put together a new side in the summer.When I say new I mean fresh faces with the right type of signings to enable us to play a passing game on a regular basis.Fact is,we can do it,it's just that we don't do it often enough!!!
I'm not sure if he is up to it,only time will tell and we will have lost a year if he doesn't get it right,but he deserves to be shown some kind of loyalty,if not of the blind variety.
BankieBhoy
-
Paul,
Your absolutely right about O'Neill in that he is the best thing to happen to Celtic since Stein. He is probably way ahead of us as you also say, but everyone makes mistakes and has weaknesses and everyone - including Martin - will improve if they recognise and learn from those mistakes and attempt to address their weaknesses.
Should Celtic win the league, and I pray they do as the consequences are unthinkable, it will have been done against the backdrop of a poor Rangers team coping with financial difficulties AND on the back of some very poor transfer failures on Martin's part.
Bellamy aside (who was more or less delivered to O'Neill by circumstances), we have seen Henrik and Miller leave and have seen Camara, Juninho and Henchoz arrive - and in the first two, depart again minus valuable cash - and he also tried to get Dwight Yorke and Marcel Desailly! There hasn't been a decent signing since Hartson, and that is not down to the board.
It may just be me, Paul, but to see Chris Sutton slug his guts out week in, week out in a central midfield role while John Hartson plays more matches than any other player at the club this season, with Alan Thompson in his worst run of form since he came to the club without being dropped or rested and then to hear Martin claim the players are tired - who's fault is that Martin? And we didn't even have a European match post Christmas!
Now we have Petrov - who O'Neill said he wanted to give a rest to when he signed Bellamy - injured as well, we have little confidence in the younger players because, McGeady aside, they haven't been getting regular runs to settle into he team.
I'm at a loss - but hopefully we can get through the last few games as we seem to have done before and Martin can prove me wrong in the summer.
I can see it, so I'm sure can others, but I'll support him and the bhoys till the last whistle and will never boo anyone wearing the hoops (well, maybe MJ if he evers gets to wear them at a charity match) - but that faithful loyalty shouldn't detract from rationale analysis and reasonable questions when there are justifiable baffling decisions being made (or rather not being made).
-
Anyone remember the ICT game when Viduka & Co wouldn't come out for the second half,I do believe there is disenchantment from the players towards MON at this present time,We all know how we feel as fans regarding CONTINUAL out of position players,CONTINUAL injured players in the team,or worse.I'm sure we have a fair idea how the youngsters feel about not getting a game,but have you stopped to think what the likes of the top pros also, Petrov,Thompson,McNamara,Joos etc etc etc maybe thinking about all this?Petrov for one,must be thinking why he is played out of position most of the time,with team results suffering.I for one think Petrov will be sold sooner rather than later,I want him to stay but as he matures into a man and a better player with each year,do you think if a European team came in for him to play in the middle behind the forwards then he would say no?He is the main player Celtic should be building the team around.(my opinion only)MON is too busy trying to keep the washed out Neil Lennon happy,who cares if he stays next season on a third of he current wage,that's all he is worth now.I'd rather have a younger player in his place from next season making mistakes along the way and getting better than have Lennon making mistakes along the way and getting worse.Keep him on the bench I say.We have all got on the back of big Joos due to injuries,but he is near full fitness(maybe not though due to MON playing unfit players & out of position to boot) As an employee of any company,we leave the judgements up to the boss even when you think he is wrong at times,but if you have half a brain in your head,after a few years you start to question it when it becomes CONTINUAL and affects the overall performance of the company as a whole,I do believe that is what is starting to happen in this instance.
As pointed out by Paul67,MON knows a lot more than us,but when is he going to show it?I'm not for one second saying sack the manager,but it's time we all woke up to the continuing mistakes he has been making,that's not the problem,NOT fixing them is though!
MON still playing the percentage game as he only knows how."The more I keep BBJ on the park,the more he will score"
Mentioned also was the mouthing back at MON by Thompson,I have seen Petrov give him very dirty looks on the park and coming off at half/full time recently.I won't go on but the next game we play I ask you when watching a replay or highlights,how well the players react to him,you will be suprised.
Look at the reactions of ALL the players when (if)we score a goal.
The fans are questioning him.
Brian Quinn(therefore some of the board) are questioning him.
The players are questioning him.
We can't all be wrong!
The percentage game he is playing,I would say is down about 30% just now.Time for him to study something better than American football.He learned a lot of his trade from Clough,time to start studying the other great managers also.It's not all about having great stats. on paper beside the other stats. in the many Celtic books on offer.
Stand up Martin and show your worth,we know you have it,time for a bit of buying AND SELLING.
Cabbage McFlabbergaster
-
Hi Paul- touch of the Corporal Jones about your 'let's have less panic' when the preceding paragraph is enough to get the arms flapping. And for god's sake bhoys let's make the comments a bit briefer and leave the articles to Paul. You might write forty paragraphs ( much of it already written in other words by a previous contributor) and think your Graham Speirs but I scroll right past it and I suspect many other bhoys do as well. Keep it short and you'll get read! - Sorry to go on!
johnnybhoy.ch
-
johnnybhoy.ch , this is a blog , you are allowed to have a ramble , thats what sets it apart from the other sites, if you are having a problem concentrating then try re-reading rather than skipping.
MON is an outstanding man manager, his use of loyalty and hefty wage packets has been his trademark at every team he has managed. I honestly cannot recall any of the more favoured players being dropped due to a dip in form, only injury has prevented them taking their place each week. This can only have a bad influence ont he younger guys. How many times have you looked at someone more senior in your organisation and thought 'that bluffer , i can do it better , , it should be me in that position' if you have then i guess you know how the younger team members must feel.
Guys , we all remember the bad times and even today after the weekend results it is still a joy being a celtic fan. Maybe other clubs fans feel the same but none are as justified as us in feeling part of something bigger than just a collection of people who cheer 11 men who chase a football.
We need everyone ready for pot 2 football and we need soem fresh blood . Three wins now please lads and nothing less. Hopefully the hibees have concentrated peoples minds....
-
Brother Walfrid was the best thing to happen to celtic.
Followed by the great Jock Stein, Wullie Maley,Jimmy Johnstone,the lisbon lions Fergus Mccand etc etc etc.
Where do you place MON amongst the above - For me certainly in amongst them somewhere . He could even god willing go in time to the top 3. We may at times not agree with his tactics. However given the enviroment he has to operate within and those who would conspire his and our downfall, in my opinion he aint doing a bad job.
-
Taggsybhoy
Many excellent comments by various guys since Saturday. It is clear the team is running on empty. We do not have the strength in depth to cope without Agathe (it is only he who has any pace to match a speedy forward), Sutton (sheer will to win and guts) and Bellamy (need I comment). Some guys are on to MoN, BBJ etc. The way I see it is this.
It is now about mental toughness. We are 2 points clear with 3 games to go. We still have better players than the teams we face. pre Ibrox we would have taken this situation. TFOD would gladly swap our position. Forgive me for a golfing analogy, but we are 2 up with 3 to play. The opponent has won the last hole and, if you were to be negative about it, has the impetus. What do you do? You can panic. You can think, "here we go, its downhill from here" or you steady your nerves and think about winning the next hole.
Only the next game counts at the moment. Our fate is in our own hands. Get our best team on the park to beat Aberdeen on Sunday. Have those players and every fan in attendance completely motivated. That is all anyone at Celtic should be thinking about right now. Are Aberdeen beatable? Absolutely!
Let's discuss MoN, BBJ, Thompson, our use of the young lads etc(all very relevant points I may add), at the end of the season. Right now, we pull rank and cheer the team on against Aberdeen.
-
It has become obvious that MON's team selection is becoming more bizarre the lomger the season goes on.The constant reshuffling during games with the midfield reminds me of my attempts at Championship Manager.I struggle along at nil nil then panic when I lose a goal, I change the formation to 3 at the back and shell high balls from halfway. With regard to the recent selection I know that I am not alone in feeling sorry for Joos at left back.He wouldn't want to play there but like anyone will play where he is told.The manager decides that Thomson , Petrov and McGeady should all play out of their favoured positions. I felt sorry for McGeady on Saturday, he was having a shocker but he took some abuse from us. I would like MON to take a chance with him and play him alongside Lennon, the damage he could do from central areas would be worth the gamble.MON thinks that a flair player in central midfield means we need to play 5 in midfield. We have a great manager but a very conservitive one MON does not take too many risks and that is why I am at a loss to explain how rotten we are in defence.
-
I agree with your analysis U2. Martin has had a lot on his plate this past year which will have contributed to the problems of last summer and perhaps since then.
The manager needs the support of the fans far more than the players or the board, nothing more than he deserves.
Cabbage, I agree he needs to keep learning. The only way you really learn is by making a few mistakes, next season should, therefore, be great!
johnnybhoy.ch, I was talking to myself when I said “don’t panic”, not everyone else.
A wee comment on writing style from someone who try’s to keep me in check; if you write in short paragraphs people find it easier to read.
So break them up.
As much as possible.
-
Paul
I've not managed to read anywhere what the nature of Agathe and Sutton's post Ibrox injuries are - or how long they may be out for.
I notice you expect them back next week. Could you give any update?
Thanks
Romany
-
Mon has to take a lot of the blame for the hibs result, wrong tactics, wrong team. How could he expect Shaun to do a job on Sat when he has not played since he got injured against Clyde, always sitting on the bench,never playing for the reserves so how could he possibly be match fit? The team showed no urgency whatsoever even when we had hibs on the rack at 1-1. The team appeared to show no interest so why are you so shocked when the paying customers got fed up and left in their droves 10-15 mins from the end, its a 2 way situation, if the players want the fans to get behind them then they need to show some passion otherwise you will get more repeats
-
Macca - when MON goes you will be crying for him to come back if youa are, which i doubt, a Celtic fan - bottom line.
-
Its not just MON, do John and Steve not see how bad we are with players out of position?
All I can think is that AT must be brilliant in central midfield during training games.
__
What happened when huns won the league against Pars. Did they fly the trophy in after the game? I never watched TV for a about a week after that weekend so not sure what happened.
We both have away games on last day of the season so will a helecopter hover between Edinburgh and Motherwell? They have to present the trophy at a league game so sod what Hearts and Motherwell say -the SPL will decide.
When we won against St Mirren did we not have an open day at Celtic Park on the Sunday and get the trophy then? My mind is a bit hazy when I think back to that weekend.
-
Bhoys/Ghirls,
Celtic are currently 6th in the Coca Cola player giveaway. £250k free will undoubtedly help so get along to http://www.coca-colafootball.co.uk/ and register.
Better for the hooped heroes to spend it than the two hun Jimmy's at Aberdeen...
Mikey Bhoy
-
I have always said that I believe MON has taken us as far as his ability can. Some people think it is a question of giving him more money. I do not think so. This is his style of playing right through all the teams he has managed. A strong workman team, big strappling defenders, get it to the bye line and cross- a creation of Brian Cloughs management school. These days I believe that footballers are expected to have more skill, defenders that are comfortable with the ball at their feet and possess some speed also.
Celtic play has become so predictable that we are not even guaranteed of conveniently beating the lesser teams in Scotland. These are players that are earning over 10X the wagers of their counter part at Hibs, Hearts etc. If this Celtic team is punching above its weight in the Championship then it is certainly punching below its weight in Scotland. Any team with a passing game and fast forwards will give us a scare.IN SHORT WE ARE NOT GETTING VALUE FOR MONEY. Once any team tightly marks Hartson and Sutton then our long ball game is covered and we do not have any alternative. Currently Bellamey is the only thing giving us an element of surprise.
I read an article from a Rangers player who thinks that they lost because they resorted to playing a long ball game, I hate to admit this but it is true. Before the game I was worried that Rangers will pass through us so naturally at the game I was glad that they started to play back to front.
Another thing which MON still requires is a ruthless streak. All successful manager do not have a fovourite , it is just business, nothing personal. If you do not produce you are dropped simple. MON seems to have favourite that are almost guaranteed a game as long as they could walk. This misguided sense of loyalty means that there is no compitition, players awarded over inflated salary because we think we owe them. Is Bobo Balde, Thompson, Hartson, Lambert worth what they is currently on. This depletes available money for strengthening the team. What are Fernandez, Silla, Joos etc still doing at the club - if MOm believes that they are not up to scratch, which century are we going to move them on and use the money freed from their wages to strenghten. In fact it is harder to be moved out of Celtic than to win the lottery (a nice little gravy train for the players while we moan that we do not have money to spend on players).
-
Move on: Douglas, Hedman, Valgaeren, Fernandez, Lambert, Lennon, Sylla, Hartson
Bring in: Goalkeeper, Phil Neville, Paul Hartley, Danny Murphy, Wilhellmsen, Robbie Keane, Derek Riordan
-
Funny how hartson is made both players player and writers player of the year. He must be really kak, if you believed what you read on these boards.
MON will come good we will roll over the dons like I told you we would roll over the hun, WHY.
Because we have to this team tends to do things when they have to. They slipped up the difference being MON will not accept anyting less than 110 percent and that is too much for the dons.
The same will apply to the jam tarts and the well.
This does not however mean we do not need re vamping in the summer we do, major investment is needed.
-
VargasShampoo
I see what you are saying but where is the money coming from to bring these guys in? Wages are one thing,but I think we'd struggle with the transfer fees for that lot.
Riordan impressed me on Saturday.He looks every inch a European style player.Well worth taking a chance on.Can also play up front,out wide or behind the strikers.
Goalkeeper,left-back(maybe two!!)defensive midfielder and increased use of the youngsters required for next season at the very least.I'm making the assumption(and praying to God) that Bellamy will stay.
I do think though that it is the Bosman market we need to sign from.
BankieBhoy
-
add thompson to the above out column
-
I have heard from a good source that MON does not have the same relationship with the players as he enjoyed in his first few years.
A few have openly questioned his tactics/teamsheets and are not happy with the style of play.
As for Jackie MacNamara, MON has said in the press that he wants him to stay but has never even mentioned any deal or option to the player himself., word is that Jackie is keeping quiet until after his testimonial so as not to upset the fans!
-
The main problem with MON is that he has shown no ability to learn from defeat. Anyone can see that if we play against a team with pace throughout we are rattled and invariably lose goals. If we play a sluggish team with limited pace we can control the game and usually win. I agree totally that if there had been no Henrik (the true legend of the new era celtic) we would have had much more limited success. O'Neill has probably cocked it up for himself and should have went (for the sake of his own career) after Seville. Now I would think if he is offered a job down south it won't be one of the big teams and he would be taking a massive step down the way. He has not convinced me at all that he is a manager that can grow into one of the greats.
In terms of giving him money, yes,as long as he kicks the habit of signing mediocre players on astronomical wages.
My worry is that if he was to go in the Summer, we'd be left trying to get a manager who would get the same resources as he would but would have to start from scratch. You know it and I know it - two days before the window shuts and we're still scrabbling for a boss. It could well be an even longer season next year. We can only count our blessings that the mob across the way have an even worse manager (at present). Even still they are diabolical and we could lose the league to them!!!!! You can bet your arse that Sunday we'll be a point behind when we start and the players will be nervous.
For all of you with an eye on the CL next year and where we are seeded, you seem to forget that we always get the pish ripped out of us away by the 4th seeded team (rosenburg, Anderlecht shaktar) and play reasonably well against the first seeds. Again, piss poor management - remember Anderlecht and Rosenbur away?
I agree with a previous comment - look at what Hiddink has done with his teams. How much has he spent - does anybody know? I know that his team was broken up last year.
Anyways, an early goal on Sunday for the sheep and we're in deep doo doo
-
cdmcc
If MON decided to part company with us in the summer or any time,there would be no shortage of managers interested in the vacancy.This would simply be down to the fact that he has restored our domestic and European reputation.
We didn't have this when he arrived.Don't forget there are mant top class European Managers who are currently out of a job.
Hitzfeld,Del Bosque,Koeman and Adriaanse all looking for work this summer.And these are just the first names to spring to mind.
BankieBhoy
-
The idea that some people have that Celtic are going to play classy football and get success is nothing more than that - an idea. A nice one at that but not a realstic one, classy players cost money and dont defend as much. Defensive players that can cover for them are few and far between. Look at Makalele at Chelsea - may well be worth 16.5M. We do not have the money nor can we affors to experiment. Football is a results industry. MON gets them and keeps his job - simple. He would like to play this style of football everyone keeps ranting on about, of couse!!!
When you look at buying a defender you have an option - a good ball player, an out and out ball winner or a mixture of the two. The former can be expensive so out of the first two the choice is made for you. If you lose goals you lose your job.
No one could do better than MON with possibly a few exceptions - Curbishly would be my choice. The this not time in our history to be looking at negatives, we have been looking at them for far too long and I think some peope have fell into a bad habbit. Being a Celtic fan is great rihgt now! Trust me.
-
Your right Paul, we didn't lose on Saturday because your previous article was promoting the idea that we had the league won, clearly it had nothing to do with it. Yet I can't help feeling that we are at our most vulnerable whenever everybody thinks its all over before it actually is over. So anyone promoting that idea is not going to be my best pal. And as can be seen from some of your contributors, MON has gone from being a Genius one week when we beat the Gers, to being a Tactical Dud this weekend, with the players lining up against him. One defeat away from a disaster. He said it. Worser, consider what are the chances of us winning our last 3 games as opposed to the baddies winning there last 3 games, taking into account injuries and off form players. It doesn't look to good does it. However, all is not lost, we still have the best support in the land, c/w Masters degrees in Moanin'. They will drag us screaming and kicking over the finishing line just ahead of the baddies. As long as you don’t start talkin about £2M windfalls before we’ve actually got the money. C'mon the Hoops! MacShoogle
-
If our injury list remains the same what team would be put out against the dons?.
marshall
jackie mac - right back
varga
balde
laursen - on the bench sat why?.
lennon
thompson
mcgeady
lambert - might just earn his corn.
beattie
hartson.
BENCH
maloney
sylla
fernandez
pearson - where the feck is he.
henchov - maybe a start?.
douglas.
This could be all we have left in the locker, stan on crutches, not looking good, didier groin, not looking good, bellamy hamstring, maybe to soon, sutton whats up with him now.
Where s mcmanus?.
-
On the continent football clubs are run differently than in the UK. Managers buy players and deal with finances, while trainers coach and define tactics.
Bayern manager Uli Hoeness mentioned today in the German press that their top priority is a central defender and that their main targets are Benfica's Luisao and Bobo Balde.
KD FfM
-
Interesting comments guys.
Bellshill Tim
ah! at last a like minded worrier, so you think we play like Liecester too, I've brought it up previously but no one took the bait.
NE Bhoy
Couldn't agree more, why play Joos on the left? sort of goes along with the current out of position trend, strange to see us calling for Laursen and Agathe to restore balance to the team when not so long ago many were calling for their heads. As for Varga I get the feeling he's covering Bobo, let's face it he can play, he's comfortable with the ball and likes to get forward to reinforce midfield, maybe MON should try Varga/Henchoz or even Varga/Joos, it's got to be better than the crap we're getting at the moment.
Agree with all the comments about Joos, have to say he at least TRIES if it was me I'd probably have given up playing for MON he's just making a decent Celtic servant look bad.
We get quite a bit of Bundesliga over here and what's clear is that Basturk was a real miss, this boy can play, what's also worrying is that when he did not sign there was no plan B, where the FECK is the famous scouting system, any clues?
As for MON, I think there's a serious lack of confidence somewhere, maybe that's why he's juggling the same old faces, trying to win and fit them all in at the same time, this might explain the lack of activity with the playing of our youngsters.
Those of you who remember the Stein days will recall new/reserve faces appearing in the team whenever we were up by a few goals or playing a push over match.
Maybe someone should tell MON.
Looks like if you want to miss the traffic in Parkhead you'd be better staying until the end !
Glass is still half full over here.
Hail Hail
Oregonbhoy
-
Cdmcc
Hiddinck signed 8 players this season. Unfortunately some of the fees were undisclosed so its impossible to know the amount spent. Two players cost £4.1m. One was a free and the other 5 were undisclosed. Amazingly PSV let go 23 players 1 on trial 7 on loan raising 19m 17m from the sales of Robben and Ketzman to Chelsea
-
I see brian quinn had pulled out of appearing on celtic tv tomorrow night. Citing business dificulties or some dross as the reason. Total and utter rubbish time to go quinny.
-
Emotions are running high at the moment and not without cause. In a roller coaster season, our nerves have been stretched like guitar strings and the closer to the end we get, the more taut they become.
Many posters here are speculating about dressing room disharmony and second guessing reasons for MON's selections re players criminally played out of position. I have no answers to this question and contend that I don't have to know why. All I am concerned with is the fact that we are not good enough and have not been for the last two years. The reasons why are for the Celtic management find and to come up with the remedy.
A few months ago I offered the opinion that this season's team went into terminal decline after European elimination and lost the will to live.This view created an outburst of total apathy amongst fellow posters as not one blogger posted either to agree or disagree with my diagnosis.
The unfolding of the season upheld that view and only the introduction of Bellamy provoked a stirring of the corpse. Could it be that apart from his natural ability, Bellamy's presence and obvious belligerence has a galvanising effect on otherwise disinterested players. Put it another way, when Larsson on was the park, no-one would dare give less effort than the Great Man. I believe that the little Welshman would be equally intolerant of anything less than 110%.
Would Roy Aitken or Mick Mc.Carthy tolerate the level of slackness that prevails today. My friends, I suggest that we desperately need a respected and forceful leader on the park, the like of which we have not had since Roy and Mick's time.Henrik inspired through his genius. Jackie nor Paul nor Tom Boyd had that quality.
Another bone of contention among correspondents is the non-emergence of young players into the first team and the realisation that other clubs in the league have more experienced young players in their first teams. This is a problem for us and probably the other lot as well, because ,like it or not, every game has to be won and the risk factor at our level is too great. A perhaps simplistic solution to this conundrum could be to identify a core group of youngsters who would be considered on the verge of a breakthrough and loan them to clubs in preferably the Coco Cola league or English 1. Make it a condition of their contract that they go on placement to get first team experience for a season ,then bring them back fully tuned up to the pace of the SPL.Perhaps not a perfect solution but at present the Catch 22 scenario is just not working for us and boys either stagnate or become disallusioned.
And that's all I'm going to say about that. Night night all.
-
Posting Debut!
Drawing on what a few of you guys have posted already, there is (and has been for some time) a clear case for pointing the finger at MON, if only to highlight that we as a support are active in criticsing the man charged with leading the footballing progress of the 'tic.
Obviously he's achiveved great things at the club in terms of providing memorable moments like Seville and also delivering silverware, but I think people are becoming more vocal that they are in fact aware that success was acheived at a price, both in terms of a departure from our traditional and generally revered style of play, and also in that MON has (even in relative terms) spent more dough than any other manager in our history.
I also think that it is clear that MON is not a coach, and that his role at the club is much closer to the general manager of the continental model than many would believe.
I think this fact explains much of his team selection re playing players out of position,tactics, and also the type of player he favours. Compare MON with Jock Stein, as many often do. I'm not suggesting MON doesn't know football, but he lacks the skill of Stein (admitteldy an exceptional coach) who apparently was able to spot a player with the necessary technical attributes to acheive proficiency in a particular position, even tho not necessarily the one he currently occupied in a team. Stein converted Murdoch from an inside right to a world class midfielder, for example. He also was able to develop players in a manner that I feel MON cannot. Consider the impact Stein had on the careers of Gemmell and Auld, by all accounts encouraging elements of their game that others had overlooked.
MON seems in fact to harbour a tendency for making tactical moves to limit the overall effectiveness of players for the perceived 'benefit of the team' e.g. Petrov, Sutton, Valgaeren, Agathe.
One poster suggested that when faced with the option of a defensively competent though technically limted player and a less solid player of greater attacking flair, MON would and indeed should always choose the former option, as this achieves results. Is the situation this black and white? Shouldn't a coach by definition encourage the weaker aspects of a professional's game while allowing the already strong parts to fluorish?
It seems odd to suggest that players are of a particular ability and there's nothing anyone can do to change this or improve their overall performance. All right, this will be true of some players but not all.
And as for it achieving results - spose that depends on what kind of results we - the Celtic support - aspire to. Winning matches and trophies or playing football and entertaining? The holy grail is of course a hybrid of the two.
I'm eternally grateful that thus far MON prioritised the former - but shouldn't we at least be aspiring to the later?
Probably the inevitable response to this post (apart from abuse cos its so long, sorry got carried away!!) is goin to be that no-one wants to return to the dark days of the Orc's domination or the frustration of TB's tenure. For the record neither do I.
But I would be willing to sacrifice a few SPL's and League Cup's for a progression that moved us towards the football that my Dad witnessed in the days of the Lions,Hood, Dalglish, and the kind that I can just about recall from the Maestro.
-
In MON 5 years here or so you could count in two hands the amount of competive games he has lost in the SPL.
Someone mentioned if we had hired Gus Hiddink 5 years ago we would be in a healthier state you dont know that for sure as much as i respect Hiddink i have the greatest respect for MON of all the managers.
People mention about him not shopping internationally instead he shops in the inflated English market but if you look thats were or best players have come from in the last 5 years the premiership, Sutton, Lennon, Thompson, Bellamy, Varga(division1)im sure theres more they just aernt in my head right now.
I think MON knows what is required for next season he knows the limitations of the defence now and to tell you the truth it could be a blessing in disguise cos now he knows wat is required.
It will be a sad day personally for me when MON does leave, maybe i have a bit of a soft spot for a fellow Irishman.
-
Celtic are now have to be the best houseguests in Europe or at very least Britain. The invites must say come round to our bit play in the front of 60,000 we will give you time, space you can pass the ball, run past our defenders, midfielders, our fat striker won’t trouble you as he canny run, we will play half fit players which will only trouble you for 20 mins before they are blowing out their arse, play our best players out of position and we will let you score with the upmost of ease then you can run and gloat in front of your own fans. You’ll get a goal of a start and we will stop playing at 70 mins just ensure if you really want to take full advantage of our hospitality. Oh and you may as well take home the family silver as well.
Fortress Parkhead has turned into fearless Parkhead.
Rant over 3 games to go need to win all 3 and the funny thing is im more scared about the home game.
Mon the Hoops we canny let it slip or can we??????
Ps the praise Hibs are getting is justified but when the pressure has been on them they have bottled it big style, cup semi final, livi at home. Ok when nothing is expected.
If Mogga became the manager at a club that has to win every game has attitude and view on how the game is played would change.
-
Have I missed something re brian text affair? - is it the same fiasco of him leaving an answer message or is this a new thing?
-
I think the galling thing about the game was that Hibs played the better football. We were losing to a team that had lost 3-0 to Livi. After equalising we couldn`t sustain our attacking play, that was very disappointing.
I don`t think our formation should necessarily be changed during a game but versatile players could be moved around. Martin complained about the crowd getting on at McGeady and that was fair comment, we want players to dribble so we have to expect them to lose the ball occasionally. That said it was Martin who replaced him when he could have played alongside Wallace and given Hibs something to think about.
Hopefully we can beat Aberdeen. We usually respond well after a defeat and it`s on TV, so no thoughts of complacency.
Ian
-
Hi Folks, I have taken my time and read through all of the posts, most of which I found myself agreeing with some part or other of the comments.
My overriding thought is that it will be a long summer and we can put up posts both positive and negative then, so in the meantime we have to get behind Celtic, players management and board.
As I posted up on another thread we have a 3 game season
(at that time I felt we had to win 3 out of 4 games now it is 3 out of 3).
The defeat to Hibs means in real terms that the victory at Ibrox turned into a draw, I heard may commentators say that only a win for Rangers would stop Celtic winning the league – they didn’t.
This is very like the season of 7 years ago but with the Huns doing the chasing. To paraphrase Win Jansen (again) `we can only win the next game not he last.’
If for no other reason than to be able to say to yourself “I did everything to support Celtic” get behind the team now after all what at this time is the alternative?
-
It was a shocker. As Paul said, our defense lacks speed, and were caught more than the 3 occcassions Hibs scored.
Thought we'd go on to win after Beatie scored. Hibs brought on Sproul who caused immediate danger, who'd heard of him. At the time I just thought Mowbray was going to bolster his defence for the last 20 mins.
I'm not sure Marshall is the answer in goals, that's 7 goals conceded in the last 3 home matches.
On the + side, when teh opposition score first there is more of an atmosphere at CP, pity they don't all end up like teh Aberdeen game the other week.
On another subject al together. I'd like to question the use of agents and jouranlists as radio broadcasters and pundits. It can't be ethical. Your Gordon Smith giving opinion on a player who's agent is er. Gordon Smith.. is it in his interest to dig him up? Of course it is. Jim Traynor doing a phone in on a Saturday evening, IMO laughing up his sleave at all the punters who call in. Do you think Jim knows the stories which his paper is to break in a Minday, or that the sister paper will break teh next day? You bet he does.
We all know that the Panorama program was from teh worst school of tabloid journalism. Wouldn't it have been nice to have a journalist like Paxman invetsigate and interview the movers and shakers in Scottish football?
From the BBC's policy and values: "Trust is the foundation of the BBC: we are independent, impartial and honest" Seems this doesn't apply in Scotland.
-
Just re-read my post, typing is shot to hell after a long weekend on the bevvy. I'm sure you get the idea though.
-
Having watched us home and away over the last twenty five years I find it hard to stomach some of the stick MON is taking just now.I"d have thought that any success, after the disaster that was the nineties,would have been appreciated but this appears not to be the case.In fairness there have been many games where we have scraped through but lets not forget some of the great performances over the last few years.Remember the situation when he came in? i think hes taken us well forward in his five years in charge. As for your idea re the stadium Paul , why not? Are the board going to come up with the cash for O Neill?More chance of us signing Ballak next season.Anyway ,its the first time Ive read the site & its been a pleasure. Come on the Hoops on Sunday
[an error occurred while processing this directive]
<<
Home
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
|
