 Thursday, May 12, 2005
Cubic Expression sell to Glazer as the big play begins
Red Football Limited have purchased all Manchester United plc shares previously owned by Cubic Expression for £3.00 per share, costing a total of £227million.
I have never heard of ‘Red’ and they do not appear on Google (that will soon change), though the Stock Market announcement indicates that their parent company previously owned 28.1% of Manchester United, which means Malcolm Glazer.
Red have subsequently made an offer for the remaining shares in the club and now control 56.8% of the shares.
I have no doubt that Dermot Desmond will also sell at this point, generating around £20million.
This deal has been key to opening up the TV market in England, which will result in the best opportunity of Celtic and Rangers getting an invite to the English Premiership.
There will be enormous trauma among many clubs in the Premiership as the years of earning out of the TV audience of Manchester United and Arsenal come to an end.
This has been a plan in the making for some time – one which I was getting concerned had died. It is now up to Dermot Desmond to make the right calls for Celtic.
Go make the deal Dermot.
43 Comments:
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And so the games begin...
I'm with you on this Paul, I think this will ultimately have big consequences throughout football.
Sprite
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Paul
'Go make the deal'
What's your thoughts, other than moving to the EPL, on what the bigger plan may be?
DD may make a tidy profit on his MU shares, but as discussed at length yesterday, he is a businessman (bloody good one at that), why put any more money into Celtic?
Finally, surely Glazer would require significant backing from other EPL clubs to seriously restructure any TV agreement which would assist our move.
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Paul67,
As usual you are right on the money...great site keep up the good work.
What I want to know is how much did cubic expression pay for all these shares when they bought them and how much have they made by selling them at 300p. Was it purely a financial investment or is their some other reason for selling just now.
Also how does this deal help Celtic?. What's in it for Dermot Desmond to sell his shares in Utd when if he holds onto them he has an "in" to the goings on at that club in the future.
Heres hoping that there is a plan afoot because right now we are being strangled by our geography
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Paul,Just one thing,it's Dermot Desmond that will make money on the deal not Celtic,he already has hundreds of millions in the bank, unless you think this money will be put into the Celtic team?
I for one would like us to start off in the EPL someday on the way to maybe a Euro league in the distant future.
But judging by the talk coming from UEFA Quote "It's just not going to happen in my life time"
the i don't think it will be in the next few years,but I guess you got to keep banging on the door,someone will eventually answer it.
Cabbage McFlaggergaster
Keep it real Paul as Ali G would say.
Paul,keep positive,it's the only way to our great Club will rise again.
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... and the prophecy has begun to unfold.
Once again your bang on with your predictions, paul. How do you do it?(its all in the accounts..)
Have you not thought about the possibility of the 2 irish guys (JP MacTamus and Rick o'Shea ?) investing in our club as well as DD. Unless you've already explained, please explain, again
westim
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And so it came to pass......
Can I re-iterate one of your earlier posts, Paul and ask everyone to write in short paragraphs.
It's murder trying to read one of them big posts and it's one paragraph!
Re: Anons - I've posted mainly as anon in the past, but got a blogger now, didn't take long and it does make it easier to follow posts.
Looking forward to seeing what comes next from the Man U move.
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I really hope that you're right on this one. Not only would it allow us to truly realise our global potential but would also surely see MON at the helm for many years to come. Celtic in the Premiership - why would you ever want to leave?
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Taken from the BBC web site:
US sports tycoon Malcolm Glazer has launched a £790m formal takeover bid for Manchester United.
The American has secured the 28.7% stake owned by Irish racing tycoons JP MacManus and John Magnier, giving him almost 57% of the Premiership club.
Red Football Ltd, acting on behalf of Mr Glazer, said the Irishmen had sold their stakes for 300p a share.
The bid comes five days ahead of the 17 May deadline when Mr Glazer had to make known whether he planned to bid.
Mr Glazer is now 18% short of the 75% of shares he needs for the offer to go unconditional.
If he gets 75% plus one share, United could be delisted from the stock exchange and Mr Glazer could transfer his debt onto the club.
If he can get to 90% plus one share, he can make a compulsory purchase and scoop up the other 10% of the club's shares.
United's rallied 34.25 pence, or 12.9%, at 299.25p shortly after the announcement.
Two weeks ago the club board said it could not recommend Mr Glazer's takeover proposals to shareholders because his business plan appeared to be too "aggressive".
"A further announcement containing more detailed terms of the offer will be made shortly," Red Football said in a statement.
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Random thoughts from a random poster.....
Could we not become a "victim" the way Man Utd supporters feel they have become ?
Say that Celtic reach the land of milk and honey and the share price rises to 300p a share (or thereabouts) .
Before this,about 6 to 18 months from now, Cubic Expression have moved their investment from Man Utd to Celtic using Desmond as a lever to get into club at a time when the share price is low.
They know that Celtic will now be a "racing certainty" (pardon the Coolmore pun)to get onto the EPL. Celtic will have already have had another share issue , supporters may not be able to buy up all available shares and Desmond , Magnier and McManus will effectively have collectively , but not individually have contol of Celtic plc .
Paul you warned of this in an article a few months ago....
They (possibly along with Desmond)repeat the feat of making a multi million pound profit from investing in a plc football club.
These people are venture capitalists.
We may make the bright lights of the EPL , but we will become the Burger King or even Wimpy to the McDonalds (Man Utd) in the new Corporate Premier League.
Do these people really have any emotional attachment to football ?
I doubt it.
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My only issue with the theory of all this...
Why does the fact that Man U push for their own tv deal mean that Celtic get in the Premiership?
I mean, I can see why the other teams outwith the top 4/5 are worse off as their tv deals will be much poorer... But why does that mean they want Celtic?
If we join the Premiership we would also have a very lucrative tv deal.. how does that help Bolton?
M
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Paul67,
Could you put up another of those votes to see who would like to see Celtic move to the EPL?
I for one would not like to see this happen. Scotland or Europe is fine.
Also do we want 1 or 2 people taking over the club like has happend at ManUtd?
Should be owned by the fans for the fans.
Hail Hail
Phob
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This is either the greatest thing ever to happen to Celtic or a complete and utter catastrophe for British football.
Let's see how it pans out. I wouldn't want to be a Utd fan right now tho
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The move to the EPL, if indeed that is what is going to happen, will be decided by television. EUFA can make barbed comments, but if they say a definite no to Celtic, and Rangers, moving South, then they would have set a precedent.
They (EUFA) would do well to remember that Bayern Munich are rumoured to be looking for a possible way into the Italian league, since the German league is virtually bancrupt. If they stop Celtic, they could hardly give Munich the green light. Could they?
Wether Celtic go to the EPL (or subsequently into a European league), or not, I am not convinced the Malcom Glazer is good for football. In order to buy Man Utd, the club will have to go into debt. And going by his escapades in America, ticket prices are sure to rise.
He is an asset stripper. He has no love of football, or indeed Man Utd. We should be careful what we wish for. If Glazer can do this to them. Who's to say some other wizened, idiosyncratic, billionaire, doesn't turn his beady eyes on Celtic.
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Paul67 - I hope it's congratulations on getting access to the press conferences. I feel a bit like negative anon here, but what exactly do Celtic hope to achieve from this?
Do they believe that you'll provide a different slant to the rest of the media from the press conferences (surely the role of the Celtic View) and if so, then a: they're as paranoid about the media as the rest of us and b: what happens if you present the news conference from the fans persective - will they wish to edit or withdraw your access in future? There's potential for a PR disaster here - maybe they'll go back to holding a weekly press conference in Baird's!
On a positive note, it's clear that there are senior people at CP who are taking notice of what you are presenting here and what the other contributors are adding.
However, I'd have been more satisfied with a weekly or monthly fans' forum where you and others would be able to present the views or concerns of the fans and get direct feedback from the club.
For the conspiracy theorists out there who believe that Paul is DD in dusguise, a mouthpiece for Brian Quinn, or Celtic's PR, then think how lucky you are - you have a direct line into Celtic Park. Wake up and smell the coffee!
Good luck.
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Paul67, What are the chances of a Celtic share issue now and waht it would mean?
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Am i the lonesome boatman who doesn't really care who, or how many, people own Celtic so long as money is made available to the manager for team strengthening and domestic/European success ensues, or would anyone else like to jump aboard?
I don't understand the concept that the Glazer takeover is an unmitigated disaster for Man Utd either, for him to be successful and make million/billions of pounds from the club then that requires success on the football pitch.
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Rumoid - looks like you can teach the Celtic shop a thing or two about customer service. See link:
http://69.93.29.242/hb/showthread.php?t=91089
This isn't a plug for http://www.sixtee7.com/ (oops!)
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I agree with King Herik to a certain extent in that Glazier will
have to contiue to make Man Utd. successfull, , in order to maximise his investment. It is feared, however, that in order to achieve this, he will have to borrow a substantial amount. And it is this borrowing which could leave Utd. vunerable at a later date.
How the events in Manchester will impact on Parkhead, remains to be seen. I like most of you hope that some dealings have already taken place, with our eventual entry into the EPL the ultimate prize.
Surely DD will not let this opportunity Slip ?
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I would now think there is a good chance of a new manager at Man U next season, usually the new board/owner want their own man in charge... hope they don't come for O'Neil.
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Is there now a chance that rather than a share issue, Cubic Express will want to own celtic and launch a take over bid? Why would they want to put money into Celtic without having the power?
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paul can the fans help put pressure on the likes of sky ,to include us in any forthcoming tv deals
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have a good feeling about the Man U deal. reck on Magnier and Mc Manus will stick a couple of million into us in the hope of a move to England. Rumour on Newcastle talk of the tyne site about MON going their in the summer. saying he's been told to tighten the purse strings. reckon they're putting 2 and 2 together over Bellamy being told to report back for summer training and getting 7. keep the faith for the weekend folks.
Hail Hail
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What about this, how much would Celtic make in profit if they got to the finals/semi finals of the champs league say three out of five seasons, taking into account the rise in our image and the advertising money etc. How much investment would it take to get us there? Would it be worth Cubic Expession buying Celtic and financing buying the players and then getting the return? Say outlay of £60M then returns?? over 5 seasons I'd say they'd make a profit?
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So now everythng is beginning to fall into place.
Have to admit I was shocked when I turned on Sky to find that Magnier and McManus had sold out to Glazer.
It was mentioned on an earlier post that big things would happen next week but my gut feeling is that this is not "it",as this news means nothing for Celtic directly in itself.I think todays announcement will set the wheels in motion for whatever the big news will be.
Garbhoy,do you think that Dermot Desmond will sell out now when there is money to be made if we move to the Premiership? Man U was the Coolmore baby,Celtic is Desmonds.He may offer them a slice of the pie but not all of it.
We may be looking at a share issue to wipe out the current debt before any possible move to England is made.
Is it conceivable that if Magnier & McManus do invest in Celtic that an agreement has been made that Glazer will back any moves made by them to enter the Premiership? The backing of Englands most powerful club to any move would be beneficial.
Monman,if Bolton were negotiating a TV deal,would their bargaining power be increased from games with Wigan or games with us?
Still more questions than answers at the moment but hopefully things will start to become clearer soon.
BankieBhoy
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polmonster
JP MacManus and John Magniermade are thought to have made £70M on their original investment.
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Hi Paul and all
Very interesting times ahead hopefully.....
Organising a share placing (not an issue) will give the board something to do in the summer other than look for new players that is...
Thanks for the comment Paulw88... always good to hear...
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Fair point Bankiebhoy. This may seem like a silly question, but how much of Celtic does DD own and whats it worth?
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I've been listening to some plonker from Shareholders United who,notwithstanding his veiled threats towards McManus,Magnier and Glazer,is suggesting that Glazers sums don't add up to repay the loans he has taken out.
The basic premise of his argument is that it isn't possible for Man U to increase their profits to pay back the sums involved.
It seems to me that it is this kind of limited thinking at boardroom level that has put them in the situation they find themselves in.I wonder how close Shareholders United are to this current Man U board?
Hope our own board of directors are taking note.
Apologies,this has bugger all to do with Celtic!!!
BankieBhoy
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Paul
I have no doubt that interesting times lie ahead on the business front but Iam more interested in what happens on the playing side!
Seville raised our profile but we have got to keep our name up there.
If we dont keep moving forward on the pitch it wont really matter who owns the club, as we will not have the football credentials to take our seat at the top table.
I fear that all this talk of share issue and take over will delay the signings we urgently need.
The clock is ticking over bosmans, the likes of van bommel, edu,juanito, dellas, ze roberto, hamann, biscan, nonda,lopez are available now. They wont be in August when we do our usual 11th hour search for players.
Not saying that we can get this level of player but lets not be distracted by off field issues and potential future excuses.
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Sure will Sprite
Rammiebhoy, Glazer will demand his entitlement – his own TV rights. If there was any doubt that he would get them he would not have bought Man Utd in the first place.
I would go as far as to say that his backers will have wanted proof of concept on this first.
Dermot Desmond will put further funds into Celtic only to gear them up for the move to England. If he does this job well, he will turn a small investment into a huge one.
Thanks Polmonster
Not sure what Cubic bought for, though it was only a financial investment they made.
Also for Monman, It will suit Glazer to have Celtic and Rangers to play every week instead of Wigan or Crystal Palace. He is highly geared and needs to squeeze as much money as he can out of the club, that will mean selling games on TV for a lot of money.
Cabbage, DD and his buddies will have been involved in this negotiation for a long time. If DD is smart (and even his critics are sure of this) he will have brokered Celtic into these conversations.
As I said, it is in Glazers interests to have Celtic in England.
I’ll do my best to keep positive, though you would not believe the discouragement I put up with off-site this week.
Wetim, I agree in the logic here, though I have no confirmation the ‘Cubic Two’ will move.
Agree Paddybhoy.
Keep it short.
MKBhoy, in the Premiership, not only would we keep the manager we want, we would be competing for the signature of players like Ronaldinho.
San Miguel, the dangers of what you speak of are valid. On the positive side, we have more to gain from where we are now than to lose, unlike Man Utd, who have little to gain and more to lose.
We are already part of the business world. The only question to be settled is what level we compete at.
Phob, an excellent point. Lets have a debate and then a vote.
Anon 4.18, not a good day for Man Utd fans.
BhoyInEngland, Galzer could trash Man Utd in this way because their current board let him. Forget the nonsense about stock market rules, if they have done their jobs well in the first place there would not have been the money left on the table in the first place for Glazer to come in and exploit.
What we need from our board most is performance.
Paulw88, I am sure they don’t know, but I do. They need to learn how to communicate better with you and me. Time the sniping was ended, and only Celtic can really reach out for this.
Celticbhoy, if there is a share issue we are certain to go to England. There will only be hard, profitable investments made in Celtic from now on, and the only way they will come is if we go to England.
Stay tuned.
Glazer will not allow Man Utd to wither in European terms that they have done recently.
Agree Garbhoy, Fergie will be on his way, though Martin will not be going to Man Utd.
Jimtim, Sky will not need much convincing, trust me.
Excellent point Bankiebhoy, any board which misses a trick are vulnerable.
Milkray, hope this will help, not hinder matters on the field next season.
Many thanks to all who posted on this and the previous thread. Appreciate it very much, though I’m not sure everyone agrees with the general view here.
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Guys
Check out the attached link,with particular attention to the second half of it.This guy saw the changes coming a long time ago.Time to decide what type of football club we want to be.I for one don't want to be on the outside looking in at the "big" boys forever,thinking what might have been had we taken a chance.
Like Pauls vision for this site,sometimes you have to take risks to get where you want to go.Football is changing again,we need to accept this or be left behind.Let's pressure our board to grasp this opportunity with both hands.
http://www.toffeeweb.com/season/01-02/comment/colm/60-colm.asp
BankieBhoy
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For info Paul BBC.com recon John Magnier and JP McManus made £70M profit over thier stake from the sale. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4540939.stm
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Paul, well done on the press conference gig. Did our friend Fargo put a word in for you???
Not sure what to think on the possible (probable) ramification for Celtic on the Manure takeover.
If a move out of the SPL is on the cards then surely it can't happen until 2007/2008 season due to the current TV deals.
Also, we would need a hefty investment in the playing side to compete at this level otherwise we would possibly be out of European football for a number of years. That won't go down well with the fans.
p.s.I'm still not selling my Celtic shares....
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Sorry not to join in with the current topics but is there anyone out there thinking of Tynecasle on Sunday? Surely this is what we"re all really in it for? Give me the six points and a Cup Final win in the next few weeks and I"ll be willing to talk about new signings/manager/shares/green & white cards at the Celtic End/DD making some sense,or any other topic. COME ON THE HOOPS
Mark-F
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sounds like naysmith and Huntelarr (and the like) are on their way to Rankers, according to rusty ironsides[thanks for that one fargo]. Check it out on the bbc football website. It has a ring of "for every fiver celtic spend...."
should we be scared?
hmm, that's a hard one
westim
(note the sarcastic tone)
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Read the Everton link posted by BankieBhoy;very intresting.
As JP and Magnier have made a tidy profit of Man Utd in a short period of time, what is the chance of them teaming up with their buddy DD before making the big move to EPL?
Here's hoping.
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Well - quite a day for Paul and CQN.
Paul - well done indeed - this could potentially be even better than our initial discussions when we were going to ask the board what their long term plans are? Hope that is still on your agenda. Its testiment to your patience and I know you'll do us proud. It also confirms what I had heard/noticed.
Others have warned you about "going native" with the board. I won't bother then - but don't worry I'll be here to remind you!
On the practicalities - how will it work? Will you get to ask questions? Will they be vetted?
The Daily Record were very coy - they'll be hoping you ask some awkward questions at the conference. Hard one to steer past this? I had typed in a very funny story about why I never talk to the press but it wouldn't post last night - perhaps another time.
Onto the big masterplan. So the first domino has fell and Glazer gets his way. The Irish investors have made a good profit and now they turn their attention to a very undervalued giant of a club - languishing in the backwater of the Scottish league. Thanks to reckless (but planned) underinvestment Celtic's share price is nice and low.
I keep asking the question - do the ends justify the means? Until DD and chums make their move there will be very little investment in the club - they just don't want that share price to rise.
After the buying of shares there will only be a major investment in the playing staff IF they are certain we will be moving to the Premiership - that won't be certain until 2007.
Not much hope for this summer and it will be four years since we bought anyone of significance.
They still want you to buy the season tickets (and we should) - but the board are playing with fire. Lack of investment this summer will lead to significant protests (quite rightly) - which may just destabalise the big plan.
Interesting...........Oh and Paul - how certain are you that MON will not move to Man Utd?
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Jinky, Fargo gets everywhere, who knows.
Neg Anon, I get the feeling the board will make sure I don’t go native. You (of all people) will probably know what I mean.
Tomorrow is a trial, observe and report only. It will also be a big time for the team, so I’ll not be upsetting anyone.
Agree that new share cash will only come if we are going to England. I believe a deal may already be done, though.
200% certain that Ferguson will be fired and that MON will not be invited to Old Trafford.
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I have got some very serious worries about this Glazer deal taking over Manchester Utd.
The fact that the 2 Coolmore gentlemen have some spare pocket money to spend, could mean good / bad things for Celtic, however here is my biggest concern.
My fear is that they invest large amounts of money in Celtic, and with the shareprice currently being so low, then they could gain a very large percentage of control.
In 2007 when the preferential shares change, then this will dilute the ordinary fans shares even further. At this point, I fear that the directors take the club off the stock exchange and we are left in the position that we were in 12 years ago where a few families own our club and we have no say.
I hope I am paranoid, but never mind, we could have a democratic club like Rangers :) Aye right.
Chris McMorrow
Mexico City
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Paul, well done, the news today gives your blog that bit more credibility, not that it needed it!
However, got to agree with Mark-F above. The next 2 games are more important than any speculation. Let's not distract the players and fans until the serious business has been finished for this season.
Give Chick Young a boot in the stones for me on Friday!
C'mon the Hoops.
Shammy
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Paul,
You are absolutely right - tomorrow is not the time - tomorrow and Sunday in particular is about the players and the actual footy (Mark F and Shammy - hats off to you too). Sometimes I miss the big picture (even if it is only the short term picture).
Look forward to your report tho Paul.
Paul - I'll take your certainty about MON as read - now I only have once concern about him left.
Surprised at the strength of opinion over the EPL deal - surely there are a few major political hoops to jump through? These are never certain.
Chris from Mexico City (now that is some place that) - you have hit the nail squarely on the head.
Oregonbhoy from previous thread - no bother mate.
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Paul67,
The plot thickens!
Denouement approaches: on the wings of an eagle, hopefully Icarus is frolicking with the Gods.
The best laid plans of mice and men..
Or something like that?
Remember the auspicious "Riparian Interlude",down by the River Side?
Time to recapitulate the musings therein.
Noah the Gnu
Prayin' in St.Chad's
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Paul
When are you talking to the Dead Fishwrapper? I'd have to visit their website, which I loathe.
As for Glazer, one thing is certain -he's a winner, although I'm not sure how he's going to juggle the expense of getting MU back at the top both domesticaly and in the Euro. champ. league with the huge debt his take over will generate, I doubt the Manky fans will show this guy much patience.
Agree with the Ferguson comment, just can't see Glazer putting up with Fergie's perceived authority at MU.
Neg Anon
Many Thanks, I see that today very few "anonymous" blogs and a positive reaction throughout to the thread.
Hopefully all this good cheer gets through to the team.
Well done to the support last week - keep it up against the jam farts.
Yours in Celtic
Oregonbhoy
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