 Sunday, May 29, 2005
O'Neill signs-off by reverting to his favoured 3-5-2
When the Martin O’Neill era is written for future Celtic history books the name Alan Thompson will feature more prominently than most. Goals against such European luminaries as Bayern Munich, Barcelona and Liverpool, and so many goals against Rangers long convinced me of his value.
Scoring a Scottish Cup winning goal is a suitable honour for a man who has played a number of roles for the club during this difficult season.
Just to endear himself further, as he limped round the pitch on his way to the bench today he made sure referees assistant Andy Davis knew what was on his mind.
Not for the first time this season Dundee United played above their league status against Celtic. They kept their composure throughout, even after the loss of an early, preventable, goal.
They created several clear cut chances and, if Archibald had struck his 25yeard shot a few inches lower, the game would have gone into extra time – which would have taxed Celtic in their current fragile condition.
Martin O’Neill has referred to his players as being tired in recent weeks and there was plenty of evidence of fatigue on show today.
When I played football I thought that football was a game played in the mind. If I was confident and relaxed I would play much better than if I did not have my head sorted. Today, as in recent weeks, you got the feeling that previously sharp minds were all over the place.
The players still put the effort in, but the effervescence had gone. In truth, I do not think they have been enjoying their football for some time. They need a summer, and more than a few need fresh challenges.
One of the main fragilities in recent months has been an inability to kill teams off after taking a lead and today was no exception. Apart from a 15minute spell at the start of the second-half Celtic never looked like adding to their score. I watched, thinking how much the game reminded me of the Motherwell game six days earlier and waited to see if the sucker punch would arrive again.
Instead, the Hampden rigging kept United at bay, and the cup was coming home.
Remarkably the game finished with Martin reverting to his old 3-5-2 formation after Valgaeren replaced Hartson. Maybe he was reacting to the late loss last week; maybe he wanted to go out playing the way he always thought best.
We can expect around half this team to move on in the summer. I had been waiting for two years on Martin being able to spend big now and feel as though he has been robbed of an opportunity he thoroughly deserved.
Though it was Paisley who brought the big prizes to Liverpool, it is Shankley who is credited with turning the club around.
Gordon Strachan has a great platform to build from.
181 Comments:
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Paul how can GS have a great platform to build upon when in your previous atricle you say so many of the team are leaving. I believe it is imperative to keep this backbone - Balde, Agathe, Petrov, Thommo, Sutton - build around that is my advice. Players i would like to see - Phillips (500k), Prutton(2M), Naysmith(free). But i am confident GS knows all this, he has had a lot of time to watch Celtic and will know every possible departure well in advance. Despite what it looks like Celtic have a wee bit of organization! GS will have watched every single game this season knowing it was very probable that he would be in charge next season.
It also my belief that the Niemi deal has been done and dusted, just the formality of timimg left.
Anyone else think radio Clyde was out of order playing the huns title Celebrations 15 minutes before kick off. Another boycott. Just one more thing to get off my chest - anyone try and go to the toilet at Hampden yesterday? Disgrace, how it was deemed fit for another big final is beyond me!
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Paul,
Did you here Thommo's comments after the game, when asked if he would be here next year he replied "Yes I've two years left and im going nowhere" Here's hoping the players will feel happier this week, and Strachan will convince the right players to stay and already have the best type of players lined up for next season.
My wife says "red and green should not be seen" I hope GS and re-write the rule
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What a great send off for Martin and the management team.
I had a good greet at the end. I was in a really busy bar but I seemed to be in my own wee bubble thinking about the last 5 years. Ahh the memories.
I think Martin, the team and the whole stadium let the "officials" know what they thought. I think it is disgraceful that the SFA "rewarded" these 3 clowns for their misdemeanours.
I look forward to an exciting summer.
Great video Celtic Dave. I take it you stayed a bit more "local" yesterday? The behaviour was much better, we had our respective partners to keep us in tow. A few Hymns were belted out mind.
Hail Hail
Martybhoy
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hi paul, fellow celts.....
nice to finally post this week on a high note.
it feels so good that the football has finally finished for this season, the last few weeks have seen my fingernails look like they've been through the shredder.
as usual, of course, i'll be wondering what to do with myself now that i don't have to run around looking for a venue to watch a (possible) live celtic match!!
saturday was surreal over here in sunny thailand....
i met a few fellow celts here on koh phangan (one of whom was among a group of us who watched celtic's uefa cup match v barcelona at 3am in a little restaurant) and we all sat around impatiently waiting for the cup final to start. only to discover it wasn't being broadcast here........!!!!
i then had to sit in an internet shop, logged on to bbc sport for 2 minute text updates from the game. you really understand the meaning of torture when that is your only way of getting the game!!
i wasn't even so bothered at missing the game, more the scenes at the final whistle really. it's strange, but missing these moments makes me feel as though i'm missing out on a bit of history. all the talk this week about the other finals (since the "mcavennie" final that is) have been cherished trips down memory lane, but since i'm over here in thailand now it's more difficult to truly feel part of it.
God knows how i'd feel if i had given up my season ticket before i left. my mum's milk man pete is still flying the flag in my absence from block 403 in the north stand. hail, hail to you pete "the milk" if your logging on to the best celtic fix on the web (remember it's still got my name on it!!).
well i'm going to enjoy a few days respite and then, i just know, i'll be surfing the net for news on the celts rebuilding over the summer. i'm already getting over my feelings of disappointment at WGS being named successor. now i can't wait to hear his first interviews and news of signings (even if most of it is crap!!).
i just can't help but feel positive about next season now. don't know why, can't explain it. that's just the way it is.
one final point paul. are you taking a summer holiday this year? because if you are, i hope you have a lap-top as i can't see any way this quicknews community of ours will be expected to cope in your absence.........
hail, hail for next season. it's coming back to paradise.
alan, still diving in thailand
ps. are there any other celts out here in thailand that are "logging on"?
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Can't argue with any of that Paul.
The showing yesterday was sterotypical of Celtic's domestic performances this season - we dominated yet lacked the guile or energy to convert possesion into goals.
At the end of it all though it was the result alone that mattered yesterday.
We all know this is the end of an era and that this team has had its day. We have to invest to ensure some extensive rebuilding work is need. No doubt some of the neccesary finaces will come from some familiar faces heading out of Parkhead.
There will be a lot of changes over the next couple of months and after finally coming to terms with recent disappointments I can honestly say I am now genuinely excited at the prospect of a busy summer in Paradise. In fact its been a good few years since I have looked forward to close season with such a high degree of anticipation.
Any debate whether GS is up to the massive task ahead should now be an irrelevence. We can only judge this matter at the end of next season. In the meantime our 100 support should be his.
It's time for us all to look forward.
Hail! Hail!
PS - FAO anyone - How about a campaign for the Celtic support to start reclaiming The Fields Of Athenry as our own.
It bad enough having to endure the Liverpool support's dreadful and cringe-worthy cover version of a song which is so special to Celtic. But last Wednesday I heard the ITV commentator proclaim 'The Fields' as "...that famous Liverpool anthem".
Now the English footballing media are rather killed in rewritting history - a couple of seasons ago they even reffered to "the famous Liverpool huddle" - so lets reclaim The Fields.
If any of you guys are involved in the singing section then please, please lets have the Fields echoing around Paradise once more.
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Er, in my above post for "killed" please read "skilled" and for "100 support" please read "100 per cent support".
...and just ignore any other errors!
Cheers!!
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Your right Martybhoy
Stayed in Guildford because i couldnt afford to sink the same amount of drink i did last week!
Got a lot of work on at the moment as well.
Lyric was packed to the rafters again no doubt. Least noone had my big head in the way of the tv screen this time.
Looking forward to a summer of change, and interesting to note what anonymous said on last thread about the video at CP.
It was indeed the players that may be off holding the trophy aloft.
Regarding the Liverpool song. It is a joke. Im sure they have changed the words and sing about 'Anfield Road' or something?
Al the best Strachan
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Paul, I agree with the 352 formation being the preferred way to play, but as you said, apart from 15 mins in the second half the didn’t look like a football team.
Sorry, so sympathy with being tired, if you are earning 20K - 30K a week, you should be crawling off the park.
The managers job is to take all the pressure off the team so they can relax and play football, this did not happen enough this season.
For the first time in decades, players want to stay at Celtic,
Look how many have resigned, it’s the feel good factor and long may it continue.
hail hail
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Spot on again Paul!
Not a great game but good to grab a piece of silverware in MONS last season...
Thanks to the guy at the turnstile who let me in without a ticket....and hope he has a drink (or five) on me...
Just watched the video of the "return of the heroes" on the offisial website....apart from it being pretty embarrassing production...it looks like Bobo was filming his final memories of Celtic...Thanks for the efforts Bobo!!
The biggest miss will be Bellamy-(if hes going) hes been a joy to watch and was again yesterday....how about we get Robbie Keane in and put Sutton in the hole in a 3-5-2?
Thanks for putting the link up btw Paul...
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The leavers this season will it seems be; Lambert, Bellamy, Balde, Valgaaren, Sylla, Hedman, Douglas, Fernandez, Henchoz. These players I estimate earn about £150,000 a week conservatively. We may also lose McNamara, Lennon and Laursen. This will who earn the best part of another £50,000 a week. thus £10 million of the wagebill, but a lot of players to recruit. This combined with the money Paul as identified as free'd from the company accounts from previous transfers and money from Mr Desmond should enable Strachan to have a fairly free hand... My only worry is this, rememeber the free hand John Barnes had... £5m on Scheidt, £5.5m on Berkovic plus a further £6-8m spent on contract wages to both players... Lets hope Strachan spends big money wisely a la Sutton, Thompson and Lennon, awesome signings over the 5 years, if only MON had been given similar funds last season when the cracks were opening things would now be very different.
We need to sign 1 cracking and experienced central defender,
keeper if we can get Hedman away, and holding midfielder. My view is that we are a shop window for Niemi, he's played for the dark side players know that turncoating is not well received, can't visualise him at Parkhead.
On top if the above necessities I'd also like us to get bids in for McFadden, Riordan and Diamond.
We've managed to lose the initiative, typical Celtic, but hey it was good while it lasted... Hail Hail and thanks Martin for 5 great years!!!
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Wee Jinky,
Is it just me, but I hate the song Fields of Athenrye?
It has nothing to do with football and hearing tone deaf football fans singing it is torture.
Chris Collins
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They have indeed changed the lyrics Celtic Dave.
The Liverpool version is this: -
Outside the Shankly Gates
I heard a Kopite calling :
Shankly they have taken you away
But you left a great eleven
Before you went to heaven
Now it's glory round the Fields of Anfield Road.
All round the Fields of Anfield Road
Where once we watched the King Kenny play (and he could play)
We had Heighway on the wing
We had dreams and songs to sing
Of the glory round the Fields of Anfield Road
Outside the Paisley Gates
I heard a Kopite calling
Paisley they have taken you away..
You led the great 11
Back in Rome in 77
And the redmen they are still playing the same way
All round the Fields of Anfield Road
Where once we watched the King Kenny play (and he could play)
We had Heighway on the wing
We had dreams and songs to sing
Of the glory round the Fields of Anfield Road.
I no some will think this is tivial but we really have to reclaim this unique Celtic anthem before another piece of heitage is stolen and repackaged by an English club.
On a different note I've just read Kevin Gallagher's comments on yesterdays game. What a bitter wee so, and so he comes across as.
Hail! Hail!
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just felt i had to add my tuppence worth regarding the future of the team. I sometimes wonder if I am going insane, am I watching different matches to everyone else? For example, I would be far from upset if we did not hold onto Craig Bellamy as long as the proposed 6 million is spent elsewhere. the players are out there, the problem is we haven't had a decent scout since (and i know i risk ridicule here) Davie Hay.
Another point I feel that most don't agree with is Bobo: i feel the guy MUST stay. He has had one bad season in 4, mostly because of injury and illness and what happens? He gets criticised left right and centre. The change in his game, I feel, came partnering him with the immobile Varga, who is the real culprit in our defence. while i think varga has some qualities (good passer, good in the air, reads well from the edge of the box) the fact that his game is about 'reading' means he often comes out to meet the deep striker/attacking midfielder. consequently, he is often in front of bobo. what we really need is someone to partner Bobo who is an organiser and is happier sitting deep, a quality sweeper would be great but they cost big money these days, better getting a good organiser who can pick up the last man and TELL BOBO EXACTLY WHAT TO DO! as a ball winner bobo is one of the best in europe, his strength wins the ball often when he is far from favourite in the challenge, lets not overlook that.
my last point (2 points kinda) is BBJ/lenny. i love lenny, he is a celtic legend but i feel these 2 players are not gonna take us forward in europe. lenny was never fast but he now he is sooooo slow its unreal. i love the guy and i know 'ugly' players that break up play are necessary, and i think the guy is great in the 50/50, hes great with playing simple square passes and hes great intercepting misplaced passes by the opposition in the middle of the park, he generally difficult to get by. but surely i cant be the only one that has noticed when players DO get buy him, he has no chance of getting back to retrieve? how many times has a simple 1-2 cut through our middle because the guy facing lenny has played it and lenny simply cant catch him once he's by him. its kinda embarrassing to see the guy blowing out his arsehole trying to chase back. that said, i appreciate lenny's role (perhaps we could experiment with him at the back in the role i described above, Bobo will go for the headers and onrushing players, all lenny would have to do is drop 5 yards behind play when the ball drops to make sure he is the last man?), but BBJ is becoming a joke. he is without doubt the laziest, slowest player i have ever seen at the club. how many times in the cup final did bellamy break down the left, only to hit the by line and look up to see only sutton trying to keep up? BBJ made no effort, on 2 or 3 such occasions he didnt even make it to the box. very simply, another player willing to run may have had 3 chances that otherwise came to nothing. he does suttons job but not as well. he is good as an outlet for the defence IF they can find him, but he doesnt make himself as available as sutton for this type of pass (ive seen our fullbacks look up for this ball down the line several times only to see BBJ somewhere staying up on the center halves instead of coming wide to be the 'target'). BBJ is also the only player i would consider punting thatmay actually get some cash as unbelievably hes still only 28 or 29.
this post is getting well out of hand, im gonna stop there, but id really like others' views on this. Should we keep Bellamy at the expense of 2-3 other players (apart from anything else i dont think his finishing is that of a 6million pound striker)?Do most think we should keep Bobo? get the right man in beside him (JK to come back before xmas, zander diamond?). Do you think we need a more mobile style of play to take us forward? Am i a tool for talking rubbish?
brummiebhoy
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I dont know the situation with Bobo, will be a crying shame if we dont get money for him. I would love to keep him, imagine this: old firm game, first five minutes, long ball up from rangers, Bobo comes crushing through takes ball and man (bufftel). On countless occasions we have seen the sheer presence of the nig man make top players hide for the rest of the game. He has his faults but his strengths more than make up for it.
Guys like McGeady, Kennedy, Wallace, Beattie, Marshall should all be kept as squad players and if they prove themselves then they can become regulars.
There will be a lot of spare cash but i think the clever route would be to bring in 3/4 players to come straight in. Then wait till January to asses the progress then take corrective measures.
THe second half of the season is all important. I would like to see Celtic and GS use the Jan transfer window a lot better.
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Chris,
Thanks for your reply which I have to admit has left me a little perplexed.
Firstly, you're obviously quite correct that "The Fields.." has nothing to do with football.
But to every Celtic supporter I know Celtic is more than just a football club.
We have a unique history among British football clubs and "The Fields" to me is a song which sums up simply but beautifuly the plight of those who brought this club into existance.
Sure the Scotish media and sections of
the establishment have tried to portray the song as political and even, unbelievably, sectarian.
It is of course neither. It is a poignant account of a human tragedy which foced millions to flee their native Ireland.
If you can't see why this song means so much to Celtic fans than I suggest just start to get to know your history.
I get the feeling that you may be one of the reasons that Celtic Park can often resemble a morgue on match day.
Hail! Hail!
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I see some people writing about Starchan having time to lok at other players etc. but didn't he only get approached 2 weeks ago?
Not much time to start recruiting.
Hopefully the background work on identifying players will already ave been done by MoN & co, along with details of who is leaving etc.
If it has not been done already then once again the planning leaves a lot to be desired.
The only problems should be if GS has any reservations about the players on the most wanted list!!
Regards,
Seggy
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Seggy - GS was approached last season to be a stop gap for a year or something along those lines. He might not have known for definate until two weeks ago but he would have been pretty certain he would be a cp next season. He has been scouring about europe, learning different coaching methods, picking up new styles of play, looking at players, the plannig has for once, been very good.
We should not be looking at Riordan, o'Connor if anyone should be the man. A far better all round player who is more likely to succeed at Celtic
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True tim
O'Connor??? surely not....he is at best a poor mans John Hartson...no thanks...
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I wouldnt like to see any of them at CP. Many people are calling for Riordan and all i'm saying is that out of the 2 O'Connor is the better player. I would like to see GS continue to sign player that are experienced and can handle pressure. That's how we beat Rangers, they had those sort of players all through the 90's and we looked liked boys most of the times. Ok we had players who could nick a goal and put in a good performance but you need to have a core of about 7/8/9 players who have bottle, guts, courage and fight to overcome our oldest rivals. But again i am confident GS knows all this. Funnily enough if you add all those things to McGeady he could be as good as Strachan!!!!
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I personally would like to see Stephen Pearson play a more prominent role in the squad next season.
He didn't do too much wrong in his cameo apparances this term and I think we missed his directness and energy in the run in.
The decision to ostracise him for the training ground bust was IMO ultimately very costly.
Then there's Shaun Maloney. It's make or break time for the wee man. Beattie has overtaken him as the understudy for the main strikers.
Unless he can force himself into the reckoning before Christmas then he may well be joining Rab and Momo down in the English Championship.
One youngster I would snap up is Zander Diamond. From what I've seen this guy could really be top class in the future.
Hail! Hail!
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Brummiebhoy
I for one certainly don’t think you’re talking rubbish. I’ve come round to the view that Bellamy as a striker flatters to deceive.His real worth to us has been as an outball with his superb pace bringing relief to our poor defence. Unfortunately he is not a clinical finisher. Had he been - a la Henrik - we would have been league winners. So for £6m – no thank you.
Having said that it hardly helped to have the liability of BBJ as a partner. It amazes me that he has his supporters whose argument seems to run along the lines of praising him for getting 30 goals. What of the multitude he missed and the others he was to slow too get to. What of the chances that would have been there created by the likes of Bellamy for a striker with pace? I had every sympathy for the wee fella trying to play his way in with the likes of BBJ too slow to respond and as a consequence our play totally predictable. Can’t see Strachan accepting his lack of fitness.
Can’t agree about Bobo though as I don’t think his failing were only this season though you have made me think a bit more about the worth of Varga. Don’t consider Diamond good enough – as yet.
Whatever we do we must have more pace about the way we play and that I must admit is what I find exciting about Strachan. It will definitely be different but please no Darren Huckerby – please!!!
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brummiebhoy
i agree with most of what you say and i'm pleased to see someone offering an opinion that sees through the emotional bandwaggon that everyone jumps on.
The emotional bandwaggon is saying anything different from the popular opinion as this would see you as a celtic critic and no-one wants that.
Balde is not the problem. Varga is. If you looked at the two as individuals this year you could argue (althoug I wouldn't) that Varga has played better as an individual. But football isn't won by the best individuals but the best group of players.
Balde as you say is one of the best commanding defenders going about and he has pace. He has improved dramatically since we first signed him and he can improve further but obviously we have to weigh that up against the wages he is on and/or the fee we could receive.
I agree 100% with your assesment of Hartson and again the emotional will say what about his goals. I believe that no one player cost us the title but if you had to pick one then I'm afraid it would have to be BBJ.
You have to defend from the front and he doesn't do that and you have to attack with options and he doesn't offer any.
Disagree with your point on Bellamy though as previously stated with Balde/Varga he would be seen as a better player if he played alongside someone better.
Lets imagine Larsson played instead of BBJ this season.
We might have beaten Rangers at Parkhead on his debut because Larsson would have tried to tackle Vignal when he shot unlike BBJ who walked away from him. Then if we win everyone forgets about the Bellamy miss.
Same at Motherwell. If we beat them 5-0 as Larsson puts away the chances Bellamy creates then everyone forgets about the save Marshall makes from Bellamy.
Football is about what players give to the team and although I agree that Bellamy is not and will never be a prolific scorer he brings more value to the team than any player in the last few years. He is an out ball when we are defending. He is a creator of goals and a creator of space for his team-mates and he is also a scorer of great goals which is not as good as a prolific scorer but is very handy at times as we have seen this year. £6m for Bellamy is a steal. Robbie Keane is quoted as being the same. A scorer of great goals rather than a prolific scorer but I think Keane would be a prolific scorer at Parkhead. Although Sutton with any one of them would be good also.
Talking about teams. I believe overall we were too slow and you can accomodate some if they contribute overall and I think Lennon and Sutton were major contributors but too slow therefore we could not acoomodate any further slow players if we had them in the team. (And I think we should have had them in the team). That meant Varga and BBJ should have been definately oot.
Therefore since I have commented on your points I may as well go the full hog and give my opinions about the rest.
Before I start though I would say that it would not be a bad thing to keep the majority of players we have at the minute as they are winners and good players who have been de-railed over the last 12months. Why, maybe because Martin couldn't change tactics or couldn't the fresh players needed or maybe his eye was off the ball for personal reasons. Who knows and it is not meant to be a criticism of the departing manager. (God bless Martin). But is a realisation that yes we should change it a little but I firmly believe that if we played the current players next year with a new system from Gordon then we have enough already at our disposal to beat the crap from across the city.
However if we have got the chance to freshen it up then why not and let's make sure of the title.
Keeper.
We need a keeper. Simple. No second raters. Top drawer needed with Marshall and possibly Hedman (on lesser terms) as back up. Only because Strachan may get the best back out of Magnus.
Right back.
Agathe will do for me. You only realise how good he is when he is not there. Not a natural defender when defending in the box therefore we need balance and the other three defenders should be natural defenders. McNamara good cover for right back and some other positions in emergencies but he plays better when he has a point to prove rather than when he is an automatic pick. I think he has been pathetic at left back this year as his passing from there has been rubbish but you can't blame him too much given that the position is not natural to him.
Centre defence
Balde I would keep as discussed above. Partner would be a top quality organiser as brummiebhoy says. Someone who can not only organise Bobo but organise the whole defence, keeper and holding midfielder. Varga could do as cover for Bobo.
Left back
New one needed and has been for a few years. Laursen is adequate back up.
Midfield
Stan. Should be made captain and the team built around him. His faults are he is sometimes out of games so lets change that and make the game go through him so that when he isn't in the mood he is made to be by receiving the ball all the time.
Lennon. After listening to him yesterday I think he will stay but I would only keep him on the condition that it will be horses for courses and if we need fresh blood at christmas then he may be dropped. Similarly away in Europe or chasing a game then Lennon should be dropped / substituted. Otherwise he may be beneficial for another to help the changover and to install the winning mentality into the newcomers.
McGeady
The wee man we come to the fore with better players around him. He has vision despite what some think it's just that his vision is wasted if no-one is making any runs.
Thompson. Could still do a job for us for another year although it would be dependant on what other players are in the team and what balance is needed.
Pearson. Second chance saloon.
Strikers
Hartson. Is a must sell as he'll be unhappy and unfit on the bench and we could get some money for him and free up his big wages.
Sutton. Tremendous player who has been wasted since we signed BBJ. Top quality player who we are lucky to have in Scottish football and it's a disgrace we have wasted him. To his credit he has played well in midfield and defence although I would add to that "until recently" as I think he has been poor in midfield this year. He shoudn't be played there again.
Bellamy and Keane as described above although I do accept we cannot have both of them, unless Sutty leaves, as we couldn't keep all three happy.
Fernandez. Sell and take off the wage bill as he has skill and strength but has no movement or desire.
Therefore all we need to do is sign;
1) a keeper on a bosman giving him the wages Rab and Magnus earned. No extra cost.
2) A left back part funded by Momo's wages. (And Jackie's if he leaves)
3) A centre half giving him Joos's and Stephane's wages. No extra cost.
4) A central midfielder on a bosman giving him Lambo's and Fernandez's wages.
5) Bellamy or Keane. (Wages already being paid to Bellamy and transfer fee could be part funded by BBJ)
Add in the good youngsters to that and not much cost at all to improve the side and win the league however if we do have £15m to spend then no excuses, Gordon title is a must.
Tonybhoy
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Brummiebhoy
How about Lennon behind Balde ?
He can think for both of them, and will definately organise the defense, reads the game brilliantly, and is not shy to speak his mind.
Can't see this happening butr it might be interesting.
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TrueTim, with the money Strachan will have, together with being in Pot 2 we should have a greater advantage next season than in past seasons.
NE Bhoy, I hope Thompson stays, Lets see.
Alan in Thailand, nothing worse than waiting for a web site to update to get the score.
Big Joe, agree the club is an attractive place to do business these days.
Chris Collins, totally disagree on the Fields of Athenrye.
Brummiebhoy, against Rangers Bobo is at his best, as he sticks to his task and gets rid of the ball.
Your comments on Bellamy are telling. Roll back a month and Celtic fans were organising a petition to the board to keep him. These kind of actions work against the club. The player gets an inflated idea of his own self worth and, oten his performance suffers.
Think of him when he is trying to control a ball, or when we are playing a tight Champions League game and do not have the option of playing the ball back, where it can be held.
He has been good for us in the past, but I am looking to raise the bar next season.
Seggy, I would hope that Strachan has been sounded out many months ago.
TonyBhoy, excellent analysis. I’ll give it more consideration later.
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Was it my imagination or was the Pope at todays Celtic Ireland game? I was sitting in the lower tier of the north stand and I looked over at what is normally the away fans section to see the pope blessing the crowd. How I laughed.
And while we're talking about rebuilding - Bring back Simon Donnelly !
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Paul, are you going to keep us waiting till tomorrow for your big news?
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i'm glad that my comments above have not received the ridicule i feared they may!derbyshirebhoy, glad you agree about BBJ, maybe its something in the midlands water, eh? tonybhoy, yer bang on about the virtues of this board, you can (constructively) criticise the team and it will be taken objectively, unlike other boards where i have seen disagreements reduced to 'you must be a hun, then' comments (comeonthehoops being a prime example). oregonbhoy, yeah thats what i meant, it would be interesting to see if lenny could handle it, man u tried a similar ploy at the start of the season with roy keane and contrary to media opinion it was pretty successful. my only worry would be that heading the ball in midfield is different to the attacking of the ball you need at centre half, but thats what friendlies are for, definently worth a try. that one of the good things in getting in a new gaffer, he will have his own ideas and try things out that perhaps saint martin had been too close to the action to see. on a semi related note i always fancied seeing maloney on the right, strange how (to my knowledge) MON never tried it, he has a great right foot, good pace, is tricky and deceptively strong and tenacious. its been tried with other youth team graduate strikers (jamie smith and craig beattie) perhaps wee shaun might get a chance there? im not of the opinion that he cant cut it, i think he is a talented bhoy that is almost worth having in the team for free kicks alone. incidentally, thats another thing that i feel we need to address, of all the signings we make, we need to ensure we have a guy who can hit consitently good free kicks. thompsons delivery from wide areas is phenomenal, but, sorry to say it about your idol paul, he doesnt test the keeper enough from the more orthodox shooting positions. mcgeady looks like he could, but i dont think he will ever be a regualar until we're ready to accomodate him in a more central position perhaps 2 years down the line before he becomes a first choice pick.
tonybhoy, you're as bad as me for sitting down to write a sentence and coming away with a thesis! but cant disagree with you mate, you're spot on about agathe. maybe a better way to think of things is not whos leaving, but rather who is staying and playing 1st choice.
-agathe is as good a right back as ive seen in europe over the past 2 years, certainly as good as anyone in the EPL, and the criticism he has received in the past was ridiculous (guys still expecting him to take men on at the halfway line like he did when he played right mid despite the fact that he had cover behind him then, and he has no one to cover behind him now) but thankfully most fans seem to appreciate him more now. and his crossing, while still not perfect, has improved dramatically.
-bobo, ive already stated my views on - has to stay (also worth considering his age, hes still the right side of 30).
-mcnamara - every team needs a utility man, not many are as competent as the wee man. like agathe and bobo, steps up a gear for europe as well.
-petrov - 'nuff said.most valuable player in the team now, in terms of money and influence.
-thompson-disappointing this season, but not been helped by playing different positions and also having to adjust to larsson absence (who made soooo many average passes/crosses look good). has enough in his locker to come back next year.
sutton-with petrov, the most inluential player in the team. wasted in midfield, and defence. basically can do what hartson does, but better, and a lot more beside.give him the keys to the kingdom.
other than that, id keep all players under 24. guys at that age can ALWAYS learn/improve, so you never know how good there gonna be-mcgeady may have peaked, but equally he could improve immeasurably.no matter how we see them (as pro footballers earning more per week than we do per year) theyre still 19-20 year old boys that are probably terrified any time sutty looks at them funny (intimidating guy). hence marshall will learn to scream at those in front of him etc. i would give laursen the benefit of the doubt as contrary to popular belief hes never let us down.if we do get a top class left back in, laursen is as good a squad player as we can hope to have, and he seems happy as long as hes relatively involved.hartson may raise 2 mil. hedman, sylla and fernandez, thanks but no thanks.douglas i think has been harshly treated (nobody mentions the phenomenal performances he turned in en route to seville) i think he can never get the confidence of the fans back, and i think it plays on his mind too.
basically we need a left back, centre half, GK, at least one midfielder and striker. financial constraints dictate that WGS may have to prioritise, if so, i think we need a LB first and foremost, and if this season has shown one thing its that you can never underestimate the value of a good solid keeper, chelsea have possibly the worst forwards in the top half of the EPL, but a great keeper spreads confidence throughout the team. its the diffference between the top 3 in the EPL.
anyway, i cant believe how much rubbush ive written, lets face it if i knew what i was talking about i wouldn't be typing in the confines of my room whilst im supposed to be writing a dissertation. back to work!
brummiebhoy
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I am not a big fan of the pieces from guys who give their lists of players "the'd keep" and "those they'd get shot off"...(I think some of them sit near me in the North Stand.) However I think Tonybhoy's piece is a cut above the norm.
I feel we were priveleged to have Martin O Neill and his team in charge and the last five years have been terrific. But I think BBJ has been a mistake, but perhaps an understandable one, given the wider context in which Martin was operating. Much of the problems with our performance and pace and style stem from the decision to persist with BBJ and to try and accommodate others such as Sutton out of position. If a newcomer to the EPL comes in with an offer we should snap at it.
...eh! I 've become one of those guys I've just slagged off for saying who we should keep and who we should sell!!!!
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TonyBhoy - Can't disagree with anything you've said.
The amount of occassions that Bellamy has ripped a defence to bits in wide areas and looked up to find no colleague within 20 yards must have been frustrating.
As far as Keane is concerned, I also believe he would become a prolific scorer. Bellamy and Keane supplying each other, now thats a partnership (am I getting greedy now?).
My point a few days ago was that Henrik was older than Keane when he joined us and really couldn't be regarded as a top striker at the time.
I think we all accept that Bellamy wont be here next season but in all honesty, if he gave any indication that he did want to stay, pay the £6 million he is worth it. With quicker and more adaptable players around him he would create an incredible amount of goals. Players like Beattie would also develop more quickly.
WGS has got his work cut out and I'm sure he has already begun. I genuinely believe that he will gain the confidence of the current players immediately which will give him more options, rather than players deciding to walk away.
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Tonybhoy - I agree with you on the varga balde situ bobo may not have finesse as a player but ask him to run through a brick wall, get ready to pick up the bricks.
I would like to see celtic buy a keeper with marshall on the bench. I agree with MON he is our keeper for the future but pretty good back up nonetheless.
I would like to see us keep Didier at right back his attacking options unease teams.
Yes a left back is a priority.
an attacking midfielder too.
I think if we can keep the nucleus of this team and add 4-5 qaulity players we should be in good shape. Those moved on fer me would be
Douglas
Hedman
varga - possible back up for bobo.
joos
laursen - unsure always injured.
lambert
sylla
fernandez
hartson.
I do believe however to accomodate more signings one of the other big three might have to move on aswell
lennon
thompson
sutton. A hard decision to make but for me it would be thommo.
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Had to work today, can someone give a match report of the game?
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First time poster...thanks doesn't even begin to express my appreciation for Paul67 and the rest of you for playing such a integral role in lifting me/everyone else from the sheer depths that this week has brought. Never, ever has it become more apparent to me that we are a 'family' and the arms to which we rush when we find ourselves in times of sadness.
However, the difficulties of last seven days must be nothing compared to that the O'Neill family have been enduring. Did anyone see the extended interview with the Great Man that SKY conducted post match yesterday? I saw it at 0940 this morning and (not for the first time this week), cried. These though, were different. They were borne of admiration and respect for the courage of a simply remarkable, remarkable, special person. We may never see his like again.
So many emotions this week...we can only pray that the O'Neill family have comforting times ahead.
Martybhoy and ProphetofDoomBhoy: In your presence, i'll never walk alone.
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Sir Paul67,
I shall evacuate you and the other members of this elite group, from the dreaded tenterhooks precinct.
Bellamy will stay!
Selena.
M.I.T.
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OnlySeenInGreenBhoy
How apt!!! Although yesterdays's ensemble almost ventured off the fashion code you follow religiously!
Thanks for the shout mate but I think as I mentioned yesterday, generally, when you're out with me it's more a case of not being able to walk rather than walking alone ;-)
Went for a curry last night - found a green one (Neel Massala) - very tasty and would fit the strict categories applied by your good self.
Hail Hail
Martybhoy
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to anonymous at 6:42
Wasnt at the game but BBC has an article about the game
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/celtic/4591877.stm
Rumoid
Those T-shirts are going down to bargain prices!
Was it just me or did i pay £18 for mine?
OnlySeenInGreenBhoy
If you are who i think you are, and if my memory serves me correct, im sure i saw you at the Lyric
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Was that the Portsmouth branch of the Lyric Dave??
Keep in touch mate, some chat of a few of us going to the Leicester game. Also the hoops have playe in London every year for the last 4 close season's - lets hope wee GS reaches out to us too.
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Martybhoy, that experience of Portsmouth will haunt me forever. Getting the train with all the suits to London, with myself not being able to stand and all hooped up.
Yeah, would be definitely up for the friendlies down this way. Any idea of the leicester date? Would be good to tag along if you didnt mind ( see this Guildford place , it does your head in ).
Seems like you had a good night last night. Keep in touch
Dave
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I think GS has a much better base than O’Neill had when he started, the only thing is I think most of us feel if this season had been dealt with better (and O’Neill is exempt from criticism as no way could or should his mind be any more on the job given the terrible circumstances – he should have been forced to take more help) the base would have been even better.
As a Celtic fan for nearly thirty years I feel that for the first time we were so close to putting real clear distance between us and rangers, but we blew it. That’s what hurts the most, not a stupid couple of minutes last week.
O’Neill’s legacy is that we are now a much much bigger club than when he joined and dare I say it much better prepared for the Premiership, in terms of ability, finance , credibility and recognition.
I see people talking about Robbie Keane for Celtic. I would take him in a second, I would also take Liam Miller but if I could pick one player it would be Alexander Hleb. Whoever we sign, its got to be good. No more squad players.
Would like to see Petrov, McGeady, Sutton and Beattie stay. Not massively fussed about who else stays. Body language at the end of the game yesterday told us all we need to know about CB staying, real shame. I would have wanted Thompson to stay but I know for a fact he was mouthing off two weeks ago about O’Neill definitely leaving. Shame that.
Is anyone else starting to think that Strachan might just turn out to be a really good signing for us. At first I was really disappointed, thought Le Guen might be the ‘next step’ man. Read some link from an interview with William McIlvanny (??). Don’t know, starting to feel a lot more positive about next season. Maybe a wee bit of collective humility might do the club good.
When’s this big news story Mr 67?
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Dave - 20somethingth of July if my memory serves me correct.
Hope you held your head up high on that train mate. Thought so. Good man!
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Celtic Dave
T-shirts are priced the same as always......£16 + P&P..(£2)....
After yesterday's game standing outside hampden looking for a ticket for 2 hours I can vouch that they are not waterproof.. ;-)
Theres an olive one for you onlyseeningreen... www.sixtee7.com
How about this for next year;
Neimi
Balde Kompany Pearson
Agathe Petrov Parker Thompson
Sutton
Bellamy Keane
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Interesting little quote from Keane
http://www.sportinglife.com/football/news/story_get.dor?STORY_NAME=soccer/05/05/29/SOCCER_Celtic_Testimonial_Ke.html&TEAMHD=soccer
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Why is it some people need to finish every post with hail hail and others need to put 'h's in front of 'o's in some forced reference to the Bhoys. Is this a medical condition or is it to show how much more they love Celtic than everyone else posting?
Yours, etc. etc.
Evil Keneivel Murray, Cleland
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Martybhoy - Thanks for the sartorial critique...and this from the bhoy who is more milinery (more than questionable grammar?) than anyone i've ever known!!!
Celtic Dave...It sure is mate..met you last week...though lastt time I heard 'bout you you were checking out the delights of Portsmouth Harbour......Hope to see you for pre-season training!!!
Rumoid...Cheers for the link....needs to be the correct shade though!!!!
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For all who are hoping that Liam Miller will be back next season I think todays reaction to him will convince Liam to stay away, he was booed and jeered every time he touched the ball.
Robbie Keane got a great reception, but nothing to what the good Dr. and Lubo got.
Maloney also looked sharp today,showing a great burst of speed.
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I hear that Petrov wants to stay which is obviously great news. I wouldn't even be discussing the possibility of Bellamy being at CP next season. Surely he's for the offski?
Still don't believe that Keane is good enough for us. He'd be OK in the SPL but I feel he'd struggle badly in Europe.
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good game today,
Robbie Keane's late goal backs up my point the other day, he would be great for celtic. Was immense to see lubo, larsson back on the pitch together, good reception given to them as well, result wasnt too bothering
bb67
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Alan in Thailand, no holiday’s booked as yet, going no-where without the laptop, though.
Marzepans, if they bring back Simon Donnelly he can sit in the seat beside me, which is usually vacant.
Also, to you and Thedominie, if we lived in a more competitive media environment I would have been forced to publish my ‘big’ story as soon as I had it. As it is, I am happy to sit on it knowing that there are few even looking for the story.
As events unfolded last week I thought it inappropriate to publish, and I am off to see the wee man with red hair on Tuesday, so unless there is another major trauma (!) it looks like Thursday will be the first actual day without breaking ‘news’.
OnlySeeInGreenBhoy, many thanks. I passed your comment on to Mrs67 to let her know that my time here is being appreciated.
Selena, Selina, you tease. Let’s hope.
Evil Keneival, stick to the bhike and let the ghuys have some fun!
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Paul67 - get the story published ie on here. Consequences of not doig so could go as far as one of your gnomes being targeted for ransom. Ransom note with gnome pic not a nice thing, been there.
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I find it incredible that anyone could be questioning whether or not they would like Bellamy to stay at CP.
It looks like he is leaving,but I for one would be delighted if he stayed.Pace,ability,will to win,these are all attributes I would be looking for in a player.
For those looking to question his ability to finish chances,this is what training ground practice is for.I don't remember Henrik scoring thirty or forty in his first season with us,he developed as the years went by.
At 25 years old,Bellamy is a snip for an additional £5 million.I'm also with rammiebhoy in that Keane in addition to Bellamy would be fantastic,but I'm also a realist.
One last thing.The idea of Lennon and Balde at the back.....
Valium please Doctor!!!!! I want us to build a team to challenge in Europe,not commit SPL suicide.
BankieBhoy
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Ahh Millinery OSIG, gotcha. Practising for the Band / U2 concert. But walking through SoHo like that got a few admiring glances - of the wrong kind!!!
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What a difference a week makes. As an earlier post said, Paul and fellow Tims on this site, you made it possible for me to get through a traumtic few days.
As someone who has been hoping for Bobo to get his cards for months now, I think the idea of a defence based on him and Neil Lennon doing a John Clark is tantamount to suicide and not just in Europe. Sure Bobo will go through brickwalls but it's brain and not brawn that we need. Varga, though dead slow, has that brain. Bobo, to me, lost the plot at the African Nations Cup. Jackie might do a job for us but definitely not at left back. His passing there is abysmal. Neil Lennon, great Celt that he is, is taken to the cleaners too easily in Europe. Sad but true. Maybe he could be kept to bring on someone. But we definitely need a class centre half, left back and centre forward , all with pace to burn. Maybes people will pay good money for Bobo and BBJ. Here's hoping anyway.
To every player who has worn a Celtic shirt this season, many thanks. I don't think there is one who hasn't given everything. That is Martin's doing. Everyone is proud to wear the jerseys. Long may that continue.
WGS: MAKE STAN PETROV YOUR CAPTAIN.
Parkheadcumsalford.
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Parkheadcumsalford.
Be amazed if there were any dissenting voices on Stan as captain
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Wee Jinky @ 4:05pm - well said my friend.
C'mon the hoops.
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Anyone suggesting Kompany for Celtic has been playing too much Football Manager. What about Mohammad Zidan and Freddy Adu??? It’s always funny when the pre season comes around and everyone starts suggesting great wee players we should sign - purely based on their performance in FM. The last champ had Bobby Petta as a great player - I rest my case. I watched Anderlecht against Celtic and a little in Europe and I never noticed Kompany.
Rumoid are you suggesting we play Pearson at the back as a centre half? Although at first I though this was a little daft I think his pace would be of use in that position. Only problem would be his physique – or distinct lack of one. Valid suggestion though.
Personally I think Robbie Keane is a wonderful player and is proven premiership quality. Not been tested in Europe but neither had the vast majority of the Seville side. It is all about the man at the helm. Rammiebhoy made a good point about how Keane may still have his best years ahead of him – like Henrik did.
I also hope to see Neimi at CP next season. He is a very capable ‘keeper and the fact he is an ex hun makes no difference. In fact it would make me very happy showing them what they let go.
Chris, Cleland
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And added to that last post, Stan is my overwhelming choice for captain. He is a fantastic asset and love the burst he provides the side with.
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BankieBhoy, you have taken my comments out of context.i did not suggest that lenny and bobo be tried together in europe, just suggested that friendlies are for experimenting and i can think of loads of examples where def mids have moved back with varying degrees of success (alan stubbs being one celtic minded example, rio ferdinand, roy keane,helguera, even our very own jackie mac came to us as a right winger and played very well as the left of a back 3). i would say that he has the main attributes necessary to play with the proviso that he has big goliath bobo for the rough stuff beside him:he reads the game well, is comfortable sitting behind play, and a great, GREAT tackler. my main reservation is his heading. but as i say, if money is no option go out and sign a centre half and a midfielder. if money is a factor, which i think we all know it is, then perhaps moving certain players eg jackie mac into lennys role, may be one option.
anonymous 8:49 will grant you that varga 'reads' the game very well. hes great at intercepting passes from opposition intended for strikers to run onto, and hes a decent passer. but although these are great attributes, he steps out in front of bobo a lot to do this, leaving bobo as our last man, which im sure no-one feels safe about. also i think his (misplaced?) confidence in his passing in my view is one of the reasons we degenerate so easily to route 1. i prefer defenders who don't go for the 'world cup' pass bypassing the midfield, particularly as our most potent threat (petrov) is not getting enough of the ball from the back. basically we've got 2 guys who seemingly cant play together and the solution is to replace one of them with a more suitable partner for the other. my argument is that bobo is a lot better at what he does (ball winner, intimidating guy) than varga is at what he does (reads the game and passes). therefore i feel vrga, while not without his virtues, would be easier to replace.
by the way, referring to rio ferdinand earlier reminded me: has anyone seen his wee bro antoin play? heard hes even better than rio was at his age, he was interviewed the other day saying how peter grant was the biggest influence on him. thats my boy peter, get him up to the hoops ASAP!
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by the way should have put my name at the bottom of that last post (9:20). and one more thing - bankiebhoy, totally agree with you, you will not find a celtic supporting soul alive who would not like to see bellamy in the hoops next year, the point is would 6 million be more productively spent on him or on 2-3 players in the 2-3 million price range, particularly, and this seems likely to me, that is our entire budget for transfers. for 6 million in todays market i would expect the complete finished article and im not sure he is. and henrik did get 30 in 37 games in his first season, but lets not compare anybody to him, that wouldnt be fair!
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Can't believe the number of people defending Bobo. His quality was summed up for me yesterday when he conceded a completely unnecessary corner when he was under no pressure whatsoever simply because he obviously did not have the confidence to touch the ball with his left foot. If my arguement needs any back up Seville and Lyon provide it.
Paul - your already excellent site has improved even more over the last week or so. I have said before that it is let down by the very basic engine, and while I would never want it to go the way of every other football forum, I can't help but think it could be so much better. The content from yourself and many of the other posters is absolutely top draw. You have replied in the past that money is the problem. I know absolutely nothing about how much an improved forum design would cost, but would certainly be willing to consider a moderate sized financial contribution, and there may be others who feel similarly. After all, we have at least one poster who boasts of a lavish, well-connected lifestyle. Please let me know if you are interested, and may I suggest that other posters who would also consider this let Paul know. Bear in mind that buying the Daily Record/Sunday Mail for a year costs the best part of £100.
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i remember when Hearts were beating us 2-0 and Bobo let the ball run out for a goal kick and just left it leaving Marshall to run and get it.I couldnt believe his attitude.
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two points to add
1) anyone defending bobo on here would still admit he has a lot of improving to do. So no-one is saying he is the finished article by any means. But I think any sensible Celtic would agree that Varga and Bobo are never a partnership, in fact I think many including myself have suggested it for a year and a half. Now there could be an argument for Varga and another rather than Bobo but I would go for Bobo. However what is clear is that the two cannot play together.
2) Talking about Bellamy and the lack of support he gets from Hartson etc reminds me of the abuse Agathe used to get when he played at wing back for bad crossing despite the fact as he was so fast he had nobody to cross to.
Tonybhoy
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On the point about Bellamy, the guy is a class player.
As i said in an earlier post, if we could keep him and add pace through the midfield and attack we would be awesome.
If we have got 15-20 million to spend then he would be well worth 6 million. I think we can afford him and he would have seen how big a club Celtic really are in the past week.
The season is over now and this summer could not come quick enough for many of us.
The quality of football we had to watch recently was poor.
We have been looking forward to a summer spend since Paul first indicated how much could be available.
We have a new manager with new ideas, and it should be fun with speculation about new players and their eventual arrival.
We may have a share issue which could indicate moves to a better league.
There should be an announcement about a new training complex.
As MON said, it is the beginning of a new era.
Compare what we have now with june 2000 when MON arrived.
There is a good base to build on.
I see good times ahead, we have a lot to look forward to!
Tony, Latvia
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Evil Kineivil Murray. Is your Grifter still stuck in third gear?
Jim Trodden
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bf_bhoy @ 9:08 PM - cheers my friend.
To those who were asking the Leicester game is Tuesday July 17th.
As a Leicester-based Bhoy I'm looking forward to a good turn out from my fellow Tims.
There's Still a lot of bitterness towards us Hoops in this neck of the woods. Personally I would have told the Leicester board to beat it when they invited for this game. They are just desperate for the cash.
On the subject of rebuilding the side I think in this day and age pace is such an important factor.
It is the lack of pace which has held us back for a number of seasons now and that is why we had become one dimensional and over-reliant on theset piece.
BTW I'm willing to put money on one of the tabloids running the Robbie Keane story tomorrow and using the term "Come and get me plea".
After my initial negative reaction I really am starting to look forward to WGS walking into Paradise on Tuesday.
Hail! Hail!
PS Bheat it Evil Kenival!!
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In absolute terms, the MON years have been as successful a period as I can recall over the past 20 years. It’s been a great time for the club and I have many happy memories. For this I thank MON unreservedly. However, I can’t help but feel there is a rose tinted quality to the plaudits which are now being awarded to him.
In assessing any period of change (in this instance the impact of MON as manager), it is important to differentiate between those changes which were inevitable and those which were brought about by him. I believe that the majority of changes at the club which made us successful were inevitable rather than being brought about directly by MON.
As I recall, the other serious contender for the job in 2000 was Hiddink. His success with South Korea and latterly with PSV leads me to the conclusion that he would have been at least as successful as MON over the past 5 years. Indeed, I’m persuaded that any half decent manager who was offered the same amount of money as MON in 2000 and 2001 would have achieved at least as much. (While I haven’t carried out a detailed analysis, I am given to believe that MON was the highest spending manager in the history of the club.) For as long as I can remember, Celtic were always second best in the spending stakes to Rangers. This slowly began to change in the post McCann era at the club, albeit with limited success – the less said about the Barnes era the better. However, it did signal a taste of things to come from a financial perspective in subsequent years. MON was the major beneficiary of this change in policy.
Our period of success was also achieved against a backdrop of (at least latterly) the worst Rangers team in living memory – largely as a consequence of the necessary cuts caused by the profligate spending from the Advocat era. While I’m not saying it’s been “shootie in” for the past 5 years, the competition was not as strong as it had been historically.
I think that the combination of these financial and competitive changes in the past 5 years rendered, in part, much of our success inevitable.
What then of MON’s legacy. Post Hartson, I cannot recall a single signing which has been a success. While many blame the board’s parsimony for our relative decline post Seville, some of the blame must be parked at MON’s door for failing to spend what little he had wisely. Furthermore, while MON could not be blamed for failing to forsee the financial collapse in the transfer market, he can be blamed for saddling us with “elderly” players that he must have realised would have little or no intrinsic value at the end of their original contracts. In the absence of a true benefactor’s financial support or a cultural and economic system which supports prolonged periods of crippling indebtedness with casual disinterest, buying and selling players was always going to be the name of the game for Celtic. This we have not done well. While Paul’s analysis regarding the sums available to GS may be accurate, how much better off would we have been if Sutton, Thompson and Hartson were still sellable assets, even at half their original value?
Ultimately, we have not punched our weight in Europe. In the Champions league, we have not beaten a club of any real standing in the past 5 years (ie from one of the big four countries) when it really mattered (and no, I don’t count Juve at home because they were already through). In the UEFA cup, aside from the glory of Seville, there hasn’t really been that much to smile about either, leaving aside the Barcelona game. Other teams which have spent less have faired better in Europe; this is the appropriate comparator against which to judge our success – not our previous 20 years of failure.
While we have dominated Scottish football over the past 5 years, this will not be recollected in the history books. It will show that we won the league for 60% of that period, which hardly represents domination in the ordinary sense of that term. Prior to last Sunday, MON’s legacy was Seville and his domestic success. I can’t help but feel that added to these achievements will be the unfortunate fact that he presided over the biggest choke in the history of the club.
Onwards and upwards, however and best wishes for MON and his family. We’ll always have Seville, Martin and for this I thank you.
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Paul67,
Just wondering what your opinions are on the recent rumblings from Nike regarding Man Utd's recent underwhelming performances.
If this is how Nike do business I'm a little worried at the implications for Celtic should we struggle in the next couple of years.
I'd imagine Nike will judge us on how European showings and at the minute you have to say the glory days of Seville seem along way off.
I guess this is the risk you take when you jump into bed with a massive multinational like Nike.
Hail! Hail!
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Dear ant1973,
I do here respectfully submit to the attendees, that you are not only way,way off-base in your logic, you are probably also certifiable.
Utter and complete, nonsense, old chap.
Stick to the Funnies.
How dare you attempt to denigrate, Martin's success.
Shame! Shame! Shame!
Pitlochry Bhoy
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First time poster long time reader,
Just to go off topic a bit can anyone actually confirm what day GS takes over i've read tuesday wednesday and thursday.
Great match today shame we didnt score.
Great site paul
Hail hail
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ant1973,
I can certainly see where you are coming from and on many issues - such as MON's signings over the past few years - and on such points I agree wholeheartedly.
However much of your comments regarding how Celtic would have fared over the past five years are little more than pure speculation.
You give MON no credit at all for his substantial role in the rapid demise of Advocaat.
How can you do this when MON played a massive part in Wee Dick running back to Holland after his panic buys brought the Bears to the edge of extinction.
How do you know Hiddink would have been able to aapt to the SPL and the unique atmosphere of being an Old Firm manager?
You seem to imply that anyone would have been able to achieve MON's level of success given the same level of resources.
Yet just prior to this you condratict yourself by telling us to forget about John Barnes!!
I do agree we did underachieve in the Champions League.
But why on earth do you want us to ignore the Seville season when judging MON's European record?!?
It's crazy stuff!!
Hail! Hail!
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Anon 9.20
If there is no suggestion that they should play in Europe together then why suggest such a crazy idea? Surely Europe is what we should be building our team towards.
Lenny has great attributes but he is not and never will be a central defender.All of your midfield to defence examples are poor.Even Keane has had relatively little success at the back when playing for Man U.
Stubbs and Ferdinand are defenders who have played the odd game in midfield for their clubs,again with limited success.Helguera,great player that he is,is part of a very dodgy Real Madrid defence.
The point I am making is that it very difficult to make the move back to defence work.Better players than Lenny have tried and failed.Whether we have money or not,a top class defender is a priority.No experiments please!!!
BankieBhoy
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What a week. We throw away the league. MON leaves. We win the Scottish Cup and the King returns to wear the the No. 7 (for a day, at least). Unbelievable!!
I said in a post the other evening that it had been an emotional few days. Today topped it off.
The football was largely irrelevant. Lambert was the best midfielder on the park and Momo reminded everyone why he won't be missed. Then there's MON and the King.......different class!!!
We have indeed been a privileged bunch over the past 5 years.
All the best.
GM
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wee jinky,
why wait until tomorrow
http://skysports.planetfootball.com/list.asp?hlid=281471&cpid=8&CLID=&lid=2&title=Keane+not+ruling+out+Bhoys&channel=Football_Home
skysports have already pipped the tabloids to the post, saying that keane hasn't ruled out a move etc....
and that he is a great admirer of GS
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Dear Wee Jinky,
You sir, a man a impeccable breeding and discrimination, in my considered opinion.
Of course, the fact that you concur with my own discernment vis a vis ant1973's infirm reasoning concerning the exploits of the Celtic team under Mr. O'Neill.
Pitlochry Bhoy
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Dear Wee Jinky,
You sir, a man a impeccable breeding and discrimination, in my considered opinion.
Of course, the fact that you concur with my own discernment vis a vis ant1973's infirm reasoning concerning the exploits of the Celtic team under Mr. O'Neill.
Pitlochry Bhoy
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Gnome ransom, Anon 8.22, I better get typing.
Agree Bankiebhoy.
Thanks ParkheadcumSalford
Bryce Curdy, many thanks for your kind offer. I have a few options to consider over the summer as to the way forward.
Need to get together with my strategic advisor Martin to put the world to right and come up with the way forward.
Thanks for the input – buy Celtic shares with the money instead!
Well said Tony.
Ant1973, two words for you which should illustrate how the MON years were not inevitable; John Barnes.
You claim “we have not beaten a club of any real standing in the past 5 years”, Barcelona, Liverpool, Celta Vigo )who were 10th in the coefficient table at the time), to name but three.
Football is a harsh business, if you were born in 1973 you will not remember the treatment Celtic fans gave Jock Stein in 1978. Soon enough we realised what we lost.
Wee Jinky, fascinating comment from Nike, most unlike them to get caught expressing strategic concerns like this.
They have put money into the club to get profile for their product, not for it to go towards paying Glazers debt.
Makes Glazers need all the greater!
Thanks Anon 10.59, Gordon will be behind his desk on Tuesday morning.
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Paul,
I said that a coach such as Hiddink (or equal standing) would probably have achieved a similar level of success. I did not advance the view that JB fell into this category.
I also said that we have not beaten a club of standing in the champions league when it really mattered. Was I incorrect? I also gave credit for the Seville run to MON which implicitly acknowledges two of the wins you refer to. Ultimately, if the comparator you rely on are the previous 20 years of failure then MON's time was an unqualified success. If, however, you look to similar sized clubs or other periods in our history then the picture is slightly different. MON is undoubtedly the best manager we have had since Stein. We have however had some appalling managers in between. It's all a question of perspective.
PS Love the site - keep up the good work.
Wee Jinky,
I didn't contradict myself. I simply indicated that a half decent manager (ie one like Hiddink) would probably have achieved similar results. While I accept entirely that this is speculation, I don't think it is a flight of fantasy. There is a reasonable degree of logic behind what I say (IMHO!)
For the season and a bit when Advocat was manager in the MON years, he did indeed take Rangers apart - no arguments. I also don't detract from MON's success in getting us to Seville. All I said was that this apart, the other years had been nothing special. Again, do you disagree?
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ant1973,
Just a quick reply before I head to bed!
I wouldn't suggest for a moment your argument is by any means a flight of fantasy.
But neither would it have been the inevitability you suggest for someone of the calibre of Hiddink to have equaled MON's success.
To succeed as manager at a club like ours takes so much more than coaching ability. Neither of us can prove if Hiddink would have been a success at Parkhead or not. But what is not up for debate is the fact that MON was a success and I do feel you seriously undervalue exactly what he achieved.
As for Europe, I can only echo my earlier sentiments that I was disapointed in our Champions League performances - the away ties in Rosenborg, Anderlecht, Basle and Shaktar in particular.
But in fairness - and I don't think you acknowledge this as much as you should - this dissapointment stems from the fact MON raised our expectations and aspirations.
I mean pre-MON our ambitions were exclusively domestic. Until he came on the scene not one of us dared dream we would be in a European final.
We were a club that failed to get past Christmas in European competition for the best part of two decades before MON arrived. He achieved this twice in five years.
Jock Stein set the benchmark for all Celtic teams in Europe. We may not have reached that pinnacle under MON but we're certainly a damn site further up the mountain than what we were five years ago.
Now we have to hope WGS can stop us from falling back down again!
We're going to have to agree to disagree mate!
Hail! Hail!
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Hello Paul,fellow celts I could be going out on a limb ,but I have a good feeling about GS,given some money and new talent I feel he could be a winner....Paul will you be asking questions on Tuesday?....... Any word on the north american tour? bye for now.
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ah well, looks like the bobo arguments have been rendered pointless. the daily record today(albeit not the most trustworthy of news sources) have quotes attributed to the big man saying hes off,for nowt. which is a double kick in the stones.
brummiebhoy
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http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/tm_objectid=15571209&method=full&siteid=89488&headline=football--
Sorry for the link being the Record but I can't be bothered looking elsewhere.
Here's your answer on Balde. Leaving for free on a Bosman up until 31-8-05 and isn't he loving it.
NAAS
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Hello paul fellow celts,I see andy goram,and donald finlay are back in the news, dont some people ever learn....
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Anyone who says Belammy isn't worth 6M is kidding themselves on. The only reason it went to the final day is because of this man. If we didn't sign him the huns would have rapped it up a few weeks earlier. Every goal was crucial, important and often specacular. Shor-sightetness is coming into play. He would be the man. The question is (a complicated one) :
1. Does he like GS ?
2. Does he want CL football?
3. Does he want top be a cult hero or a NORNAL player down south.
My information is that he is desperately seeking a move abroad.
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Bellamy waving and acknowledging the crowd yesterday when he was subbed suggests hes off.
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True Tim, it might have been better if we had lost the league earlier rather than suffering loosing the league with 2 mins to go. Don't think I'll ever get over it!!
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Morning everyone
Long time listener, first time caller. Had the pleasure of being invited along to the final as a guest of one of the players and to say that they were relieved to have won the game is an understatement - there were quite a few tears.
The talk was that up to ten squad players would be looking for new employment this summer with the most prominent names being lambert (sorted), bellamy, jackie and lennon. The last two are expecting talks with the club and both want to stay. Thompson wants to stay but appreciated that the club may take some money for him, hartson is in the same boat. Petrov and sutton are classed as the untouchables but then I guess everyone would know that.
Balde has been open and honest with everyone about his desire to expand his CV with a move back to the continent. The deal struck meant that a pay rise would have kicked in after this summer if he stays so essentially there is a 3 year deal waiting for him if he chooses to take it.
Bellamy is a genuinely nice guy but admits his temperament changes after stepping over the white line - i would bet those of us that still play would say something similar. He was gutted to leave newcastle as he felt really settled but souness had his way and ostricised him. He has a firm offer on the table from Villa but his agent has fielded calls from Arsenal and Barcelona. A big factor in his decision, as with a lot of celtic players, is the age of his son and the effect on his schooling.
McStay
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i'm pretty sure Roy Keane was a guest of Jackie Mac...
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Nass / Brummiebhoy
I for one will be glad to see the back of Bobo. Ideally I would like a fee but he seems to have had MON over a barrel in January.
I have always wondered why he is held in such high regard by some.
To me the big man was a disaster waiting to happen and it often did.
Too many mistakes because of a lack of concentraction and technique shouldn't win a 4 year deal.
Bobo you were entertaining and committed but it wasn't enough.
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Morning all!
Rollercoaster of a week right enough...as many have said here, Im coming round to the idea of WGS as manager. I think he will show more faith in the youngsters and perhaps we will see some of them getting a decent crack at the whip. I think this might partly be down to lack of transfer funds. I know Paul has said that there will be funds available, but until it happens....
Great to see so many turn out for Jackie and MON yesterday after last weeks news. That is the difference I suppose ...over and over, faithfull through and through...
BTW I think Sutton would be perfect for the commanding central defender role. He has shown he can play there in the past, can tackle, is an excellent reader of the game, good in the air and always give 100%...reckon?
TG
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Anon 9.53
Wouldn't disagree about Sutton. Seems more disciplined when at the back not quite so niggly.
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Anon 9-18
We have to over it. The battle was lost the war goes on. We have a new commander in charge now, new battles to fight and fight them we will.
We will have a new look army to take on the forces of darkness and to plunder europe.
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Seattlecelt - please say they have become an item and goram now wants to be addresed as mary.
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Ant1973, I think your terms of comparison have narrowed a little from your first piece. You have defined a ‘[half decent manager’ as someone like O’Neill or Hiddink, both of whom are exceptional managers.
SeatleCelt, I’ll be observing on Tuesday. No news yet on N. American tour. Hope you are right on Gordon, he certainly has a better infrastructure in place to build success from.
Welcome Great No 8 ‘McStay.
Your information matches what I have heard myself. I wonder what affect this uncertainty had in recent weeks.
I hope Gordon has been busy scouting.
Anon 9.33, clearly not Roy Keane.
Lostrambling, Bobo made me nervous every time the ball came to him. If he goes to Bayern he will be found out before Christmas. Celtic need to look for basic leels of ball playing ability throughout the field.
TG I agree about Sutton at the back. He is a great player but his age will catch up with him just like the rest of them, move him back where he can pull the strings.
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following comments from 9:45 PM, Bryce Curdy...
whilst I would have no problem contributing financially to this excellent and thought provoking website I have to say that I like the simplicity. No pop-ups, flashing lights, extensive menu's - just original, often controversial topics and replies from intelligent and friendly lovers of all things green n' white.
BTW, inside word is Bellamy is most likely off, although he has fallen for the hoops in a big way however it's by no means done and dusted (SPL the obvious problem) and GS's first three targets are Niemi, Parker and Keane of the Robbie variety.
Live in Italy and had to give up cup final ticket and couldn't be there yesterday either which hurts. Feel I haven't had the chance to pay my respects to some that I will for ever cherish.
Loved Keane's comments, along with the I'm a celtic supporter bit that 'Nearly all the boys in the Irish dressing room are Celtic supporters'. Got to help the cause o'er the water.
CW
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ant1973
What you had to say was spot on,just unfortunate you worded with no compassion with what you did write,you certainly have a great arguement,facts speak for themselves.
True Tim
So with you on this one,for anyone to think CB should leave are nuts,get a few great players around him and we would have a team,at the same time he plays for the crowd not the team,one of his weak points.He will leave for sure.
James VI
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I think if WGS could get Bobo to get back to his form of 2years ago then it would be daft to let him leave(although that appears to be out of the club's hands).
2 seasons ago Bobo was, without a doubt, the best defender in Scotland- and one of the top few in Britain. We NEED him to get good again
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Mc Stay. Are you saying that Balde would get a wage RISE if he stayed at CP,In my mind he should be given a wage reduction or shown the door after his performances this season.
Can't pass a ball,can't think for himself,can't kick with his left foot without thinking about,and doesn't anyway.The sooner a team takes him off our hands the better.
James VI
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IMO Bobo is no better a player now than when he first walked through the doors of Paradise.
His physical pressence is immense but at times his lack of footballing ability can be embarassing.
Having done a google search for stories when he signed his new contract I can honestly say I now feel, yet again, totally cheated by the board.
It seems the whole thing was just a smokescreen. For Bobo it hid his real intentions to walk out on the club for nothing. For the board it created the false impression that we had the ambition to hold on to our most sought afte players.
Peronally I won't lose any sleep over a guy who has had IMO one good season and several where he has more often been a villan than hero.
But a bit more honesty from yet another badge kisser and our deviously deceptive board would have been nice.
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Wee Jinky
I think you might be a bit unfair in levelling criticism at the board for this one.
MON obviously wanted Bobo to stay as he would have had only Varga and Henchoz as recognised centre backs.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I said at the time we should have let him go to Boro.If he wanted to stay he should have been made to sign a contract allowing us to pick up a fee for him.
I think this is more likely to be another example of MON's few failings in his time at Celtic,contracts and player sales.
BankieBhoy
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BankieBhoy,
Maybe I am being a bit harsh mate but I do feel let down by them.
I would actually have preferred Bobo not to have signed a new deal in Feb rather than see him sign terms which gave the club absolutley nothing which they didn't already have.
All Bobo's new contract did was gift the press yet another negative Celtic story in the title run in.
I remember the overwhelming reaction from fans to Bobo signing his new deal as being "Well at least we'll get some cash for him now".
How wrong we were!!?
Maybe in a few days I'll won't judge the board so hashly but at the minute mate I feel cheated.
Hail! Hail!
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Hi James VI
Yes, the idea is that a wage increase and a signing on fee are there to be collected if he does not move during the next transfer window (up to August 31). There is no real benefit to celtic in that they don't get a fee but they also don't have to pay out a large sum up front for a player not committed to the contract on offer. Celtic offered ths compromise as MoN wanted to take a weight off Bobo's mind for the run-in. The club were aware of what happened with Liam Miller and did not want the same thing to happen with a prominent first team player.
The same deal is not in line with the others who recently extended contracts.
Paul, I have also been told that 'the grand vision' in terms of the playing squad has a target of 50% of the first team squad either being produced by the club or the best young scottish talent around. The timeline is 5 years. It is both a reaction to the revenue available and the Uefa rules that will come into place over the next few years. I for one would welcome this strategy as long as the money available was spent wisely on european calibre players.
McStay
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Dose any 1 know when the team returns for preseason training and are we going on tour, or have any friendly’s ?????
Joeinspain
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The Balde situation highlights what I consider to be one of the major flaws of MON’s tenure viz. the inability to move on players at the right time for Celtic. The problem first became evident with the Liam Miller debacle and has continued since. It appears that for a long time we have negotiated contracts that benefit only the player. As a result we ended up with a player who in my opinion played poorly since the winter break retaining a place whilst an expensive bench-warmer was brought in (Henchoz) and a good prospect (Mc Manus) was left frustrated in the reserves. I sincerely hope that this alters under GS
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Great No 8, the 50/50 split of youth and signed players works well on paper. I would be interested in your feedback on one of my soap box issues:
In 20 years we have not introduced a player from the youth teams who has delivered for more than a season.
The days of producing ‘Great No 8’s are so remote I do not have a point of reference. Without wanting to drag the current crop into this, I fear they are following a well know path; rave reviews for a few months before losing their place.
I keep hearing that the current crop will prove me wrong, but the leap from great prospect to great Celtic player is huge, and statistically must resemble a lottery win.
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I still have hope Bellamy will stay after he has spoken with GS.
Any news on the backroom staff for GS?
As i said in an earlier post I would like to see Willie McStay promoted to coaching the first team and perhaps groomed as a future manager.
He did brilliantly when managing in Ireland and is doing so again with the younger players.
I think that if we look at progression for the years to come he would be a good fit for the post.
GS will be coming with new training techniques and new ideas learned on his break from management, Willie could benefit from that and give us a ready made manager for the future.
Tony, Latvia
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Paul just been speaking to a pal who assures me that a new sponsorship deal is near completion that will " blow our socks off"
He also said that new finance structure is being put in place to take us into the 21 st centuary.
I know this is rumour mill type stuff but he is a Rankers supporter ( now a very worried one.
Apart from the publicised 15 million investment is anything going on we should know about?
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Have to say some of the things leveled at big Bobo are spot of others way of the mark. When did Bobo ever go round kissing his badge?
As for the contract he signed well yes it isn't ideal.
We picked him up for nothing and yes he's cost us but how many times has he been there for us.
Regarding his contract Celtic should have sat down with him last year (same as Liam Miller) and asked him if he intended to sign a contract if not then sell him (if you can). I don't see how this can be levelled at MON those in charge of contract negotiations should have made that known. As share holders we expect those in charge to act in our intrests (bit clinical) and not let a player leave for nothing if it can be helped.
Bobo played for the jersey and loved being a Celtic man he loved the aduration from the support. If he goes well then thanks and goodbye. There are other players who picked up their money for doing hew haw and didn't engage with the fans, if hope they are shown the door to.
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truetim - again, please dont get me wrong, i'd love to see bellamy in the hoops for many years to come. but i think a lot of people are overlooking the present football market. 6 million is a hell of a lot for a player these days.it was a different climate when we signed sutton, hartson, lennon. and as the possibility exists that, with at least 2 million pound a year on wages to add on, bellamy's signing may consume our entire budget. even if the board do surprise every one of us and hand out 10 million to WGS, it still means we'll be scraping around in the bargain basement for a LB,GK,Def Mid, and CB.Personally i think if we have 6 million id rather spend it more evenly through the team. and besides, im still not convinced of bellamys temperament.
the boo argument now seems pointless, but for what its worth im gonna stick to my guns and say i'd loved to have kept him. dont really blame the board for this one, they were faced with losing him for nothing at xmas with the league still to play for and no adequate replacement, or lose him in the summer for nothing. the guy clearly didnt give a third option of staying long term.
TG and lostrambling, cant agree that sutton would be a long term centre half. he can play there in emergency, but we have the very simple choice between a better than average defender or a top class striker. there are many players we could sign to do a job at centre half for <1 mil, but i cant think of many strikers who could replace sutton.
Brummiebhoy
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£6 million is a lot for young Craig but that was the price agreed when we took him on loan. We've now since January how muhc we need to pay out to keep him - if he wants to stay.
What else could we do for £6 million?? There is a stiker on the continent who is just back from injury. He might struggle to fight his way back into a team consisting of Eto'o and Ronaldhino and whoever else signs this summer. How much would he cost????
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Folks,
I've just heard some interesting news. Apparently GS has earmarked Edgar Davids as his first signing, also expect Liam Miller to make a return to the Celtic midfield. Other stories banding about paradise are that Kuffour is on his way from Bayern and that GS is on the way to signing some of the top name Bosmans available. Jackie will be offered a new two yr deal as well.
The Fatman
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WGS - says he wouldnt have touched the celtic job with a ten foot barge pole {big pole for the wee man } if he hadnt been promised the "resources" to do the job.
Does this mean substantial investment in the squad?. Or is he getting in his excuses beforehand thats the pessimist in me speaking there.
In addition Rod saying about Desmond and pockets well Rod you may only be a normal fan but your a fan with buckets of it get 10 mill of shares ya tight git.
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Fantasy here if u could have a celtic man with the same dosh as abramovich who would it be. For me it would be wee berty auld we would be quids in.
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If bobo s so crap how come borough a few other epl teams and bayern want him ?.
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jinky, i know you're talking about the great man, but i think that would be wishful thinking, and besides, he's not getting any younger and I want him to show the world for at least 1 season what we already know. but you did remind me of something i read on skysports planet football: barca have told both saviola and riquelme they have no future with the club. they have apparently already been offered to arsenal in part exchange for henry, but arsenal laughed at that suggestion. i know plans were afoot last year to bring saviola in on loan, perhaps< 6 mil might tempt them? riquelme as well would simply be the icing on the cake.
but why am i speculating over players?surely thats the record's job?
Brummiebhoy
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Very true about the Balde contract,he was going to go anyway.
I think he was convinced to stay on until the summer as we didn't exactly have any other cover in his place to be any better than him,better the devil you know.
Who would have taken his place?
I would say he was probably offered this deal by the board,not asked for it himself.
He could have left for free at the beginning of the year,he gave us 5 months extra before leaving.
Although the season went the way it did,It was a good bit of business done by Celtic to keep a hold of him for the time being.
New sponsorship?When does the Carling deal exactly finish?
Cabbage
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Totally off subject but does anyone know a Paul McQuade member of Celtic Collectors Club.
If you do can you e-mail me on rumoid@hotmail.com
I appreciate it...
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Paul, you asked McStay for his thoughts re no significant graduate from youth to first team in the last 20 years.Perfectly valid question. IMHO, previously freely given on this site,the gap between reserve and first team at Celtic is a yawning chasm, which cannot be breached without the young hopefuls going on loan to gain first team experience in a less demanding environment.
Witness the difference on the pitch at Jackie Mac's benefit between the boys and the seniors. Not one young player stood out, even in a half paced match and incidentally, Paul Lambert was the best man on the park and should have been used to steady the ship for the last half hour at Fir Park.
Compare boys of similar age at other SPL clubs and the difference is obvious. Therefore, again I say, make it a contractual imperative that part of the development process includes a loan spell or placement with a suitable club. If it is compulsory, then no individual lad will feel he is being edged out the door. Sort of National Service, if you like.
By the way, why no feedback on my suggestion to drop Sky Sports until we are invited to the party. Are fellow posters to busy with player shopping lists and recycling bins to consider the proposal. Come on, "let's be 'aving ye!!
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Brummiebhoy, was just having a wee dream out loud. How good would it have been to see Bellamy and Larsson team up??
Seriously tho, we did have some sort of agreement with Barca so it would be interesting to know how strong that bond is and if Henrik could put a word in to a couple of their fringe type players. Saviola? Did he go to France on loan last year instead of to us?
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paul, you're right we haven't had a significant youth team product over the last 20 years (although laughably simon donnelly may have come close, but then again was he really ours, i think he was signed from queens park when he was 17 or something anyway) but this is not a true reflection of our youth system. i think this more likely demonstrates the huge pressure on the manager not to take chances with youth players, and the sometimes overwhelming criticism from fans (i remember beattie getting dogs abuse at fulham for a bad touch the likes of which you see hartson make all the time without comment). look at the facts:our youth, reserves and u19s run away with the league season upon season; if i remember the details correctly, we sent our u19s to an u21s tournament in italy involving premier, italian, german, spanish clubs and they came 2nd only 2 river plate of argentina! and this is against players 2 years older!even guys that arent good enough for us are still good enough elsewhere like mick doyle at coventry running amok at a decent level despite never having made a competitive 1st team appearance for us? mcgeady, marshall, maloney and (rehab permitting) kennedy will all have good careers with us, thats 4 from the current crop, not considering the icelandic duo, gardyne, irvine, cuthbert, o'dea have faith paul!
oh, and as for those advocating liam miller's return, cant see it after yesterday. i for one would not be happy, the integrity of our club is worth more to me than the short term midfield solution.
Brummiebhoy
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Hi Paul
I think the stats don't look good and if you consider the chelsea/man utd model then they appear content with the one in a million find every decade (Terry/scholes and giggs etc.). I think the confidence in the future of the youth scheme is that the infrastructure in place (not just bricks and mortar) is the best we have ever had in terms of all round players development - both physically and mentally.
It doesn't take a genuis to see that the young players at other clubs are no better than celtic's crop but the difference is the number of senior games under their belt. Pearson and McFadden are good examples but they have struggled with the transition to bigger clubs - the difference would be seeing how beattie et al cope with playing 25 SPL games in a season.
THe conversation I had with the people involved suggested that it is the squad players who would be replaced by homegrown players, not the seasoned championship winning players. This suggests to me that the habit of picking up your Sylla's, hedman's , laursens, fernandez etc.for around 1m is no longer considered a worthwhile investment. The development of youth players in SPL and cup games would help bring them along, provided of course a balance was found with a successful team.
As with most targets, I think this one would appear to be aspirational rather than fixed in stone - something Brian Wilson the former energy minister would know a lot about!! Renewable energy and all that....
If this strategy means less money spent on bench warmers and more money available for young talent that can prove themselves them I believe it is a good start. Off the top of my head, I believe the following could be considered squad players just now:
Marshall, maloney, beattie, McGeady, Kennedy, McManus, Wallace.
Of that lot I believe maloney and wallace to be the stragglers but the rest are good enough to be considered for top team games in scotland.
McStay
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Re Jinky.
Saviola went to Monaco I'm sure, yes he is a trick wee player, just imaginr what he'd do up against a big lumbering centre half?
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Tom the Tim, two great ideas re football contract national service and Sky sports.
Since its the silly season here's my rumour.
Roy Keane will join GS as assistant manager / player :)
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Paul67, Great analysis of the weekend´s match but aren´t you being a bit harsh suggesting that no young Celtic players have made it in the last 20 years. After David Marshall´s performance at the Camp Nou in season 03/04, at a post match press conference MON said jokingly that he had said to the lad "it´s all downhill from here on!!" But Marshall is not resting on his laurels, in this season's Parkhead match against Barça he saved a penalty. If we are comparing with those of yore, did John Fallon make it? Remember John Kennedy defending against Ronaldiño and company, Could Tom McAdam have done better than that? Wee Shaun Maloney put Celtic 2-1 ahead against Stuttgart, under great pressure as Larsson´s understudy that night, a real make or break moment. Did Simon Donnelly bag the winner at Anfield in a big European night? Craig Beattie saved a miserable pre-season tour with his winner against Man U in the USA. How many games did Aiden McGeady play for Celtic this season? He was dropped ultimately to make way for Bellamy, because MON would not rest Hartson,Petrov or Thompson.
These young lads are trying to make a name for themselves at a time when scottish football is as bad as it has ever been. If we don´t recognise their achievements who will? The future of Celtic depends on it. Barcelona now have Valdes, Oleguer, Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol from their youth set up, they are dying to play for their team and a lot of Barça's success this year stems from that. Yet when the changes come , no one recognises your achievements, not even the Celtic minded. It´s enough to make Ross Wallace want to sign for Caley Thistle!!
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I agree with getting rid of the dead wood, but I feel Laursen could do a job for us, if and that’s a big if, he stays fit.
Oh and if West Ham do not win promotion a wee bird told me the Peter Grant will be WGS’s number 2.
Bigjoefromspain
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Lets all hope for West ham winning promotion then...
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Mick @ 12.37pm,
When I refered to Balde as a badge kisser I didn't mean he was one to go around literally performing this act.
However, my point is that here we have yet another player publically declaring his love for Celtic while in reality he's plotting the most profitable way out the exit door.
A little over three months ago Balde said: "My heart has been with Celtic for some time and that was a big factor in my decision. I want to help Celtic try to retain the championship and again experience big European matches we have done in the recent past."
At best the man is dishonest - a fraud.
They may be strong words but when you look back to the Celtic Quick News from Feb 1st it is hard not to feel a degree of anger.
There we all are heaping praise on the board and Bobo for their ambition and loyalty respectively.
Ever get the feeling you've been cheated!!
Hail! Hail!
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lol
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Just on the youth system point, E-T!ms did an excellent series which tracked the development of the Quality Street Kids (McGrain, Macari, Dalglish, Connolly etc) a few months back which is still on the site. Anyway, it got me thinking what were the differences in the coaching techniques between then and now which enabled us to produce these talented players who could go from under 17'/18's and eventually hold their own in the first team?
Is it simply that football is a different animal now?
Kevin Murray
The Boat, Near The Newarthill Club
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The nature of the beast has changed!
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My tuppence worth on the youth debate.
I am in complete agreement with tom the tim.We need to start getting the younger players out to other teams to gain experience.In Spain they are able to use their "B" teams to fulfill this side of their development.
The most recent high-profile example of a player benefiting from this kind of treatment is David Beckham.Ferguson thought he was too lightweight,the trip to Preston toughened him up and developed his confidence and he came back a different player.The rest is history.
We all should understand that even by using this process not all the players will make the step up to make first-team regular status.However,as a previous poster has pointed out,if they are good enough to supplement the squad then this should prevent wasting money on the Syllas' and Fernandezs'we have had to put up with for the last few years.
Finally,Liam Miller.He has been discussed previously on here and I know that many do not want to see him return.I thought the booing of him at yesterdays friendly was unfortunate.However,provided we don't have to pay a fee for him I will take him back in a minute.
brummiebhoy,I understand your feelings,but this club was also founded on Christian values,one of which I believe is forgiveness.
BankieBhoy
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Why do the pro-Liam Miller posters want him back.....He can't tackle and since WGS likes to play a 4-4-2 where do you see him fitting in.....
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Rumoid, he might fit into one of your T Shirts:)
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Tony
My t-shirts don't shrink to fit in inferior players....
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I should think not at that price:)
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rumoid
Central midfield obviously.We still need a little bit of experience in there but we need competition for places.Miller would give us that and perhaps allow us to rest Petrov from time to time.
Ultimately,if GS wants him to come back then like the GS appointment itself,whether we like it or not we would have to support him when he wears the Hoops.Failure to do so would just make the wee mans job more dificult than it already will be.
At the moment though,this is all just conjecture.
BankieBhoy
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Bankiebhoy
I think I would prefer Hartley to be honest....he can take free-kicks, tackle and has a bit more experience...(and would be cheaper and more motivated to play in the hoops)
Anon 5:12...what can I say.... they havent been made in the same sweat-shops as the Celtic shop t-shirts but are still cheaper...But we all have tough choices to make... ;-)
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"brummiebhoy,I understand your feelings,but this club was also founded on Christian values,one of which I believe is forgiveness."
Bankiebhoy, thats a bloody good answer. On a personal level, yeah of course It's water under the bridge but yet...I would be lying if i said the Miller affair didn't incense me more than any other transfer since judas johnstone. A mate of mine (i know, i know "a guy i know blah blah") has an uncle who works at man u's training complex and the very same day an interview with miller bleating something along the lines of "i wish i could say what i really think of these stories, im a celtic fan and i only want to play for celtic" was printed, he was actually down at the carrington complex for his medical. you can say i'm not forgiving, but i prefer to think that the guy has shown his true colours and cannot be relied upon to go that extra mile for the club.
besides, am i the only one who though he was hugely overrated? couple of decent goals in europe, both put on a plate for him, very little else, cant tackle, and above all else, he constantly gave away possession on the halfway line, cardinal sin for a midfielder! how abysmal was he in the first half of his only old firm appearance. a good sub and nothing else.
regarding youth players going on loan, i heard that the young keeper michael mcgovern we sent to stranrear has done really well, apparently there wasnt much to choose between him and marshall before marshy's promotion, its not therefore inconceivable that having spent a season with 30something journeymen footballers trying to clobber him at every cross, he's toughened up and may even force his way into the first team picture? would be quite damning of our reluctance to farm out players if this was the case, would it not?
Brummiebhoy
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Ever get the feeling you've been cheated!!
Well in a word Yes Jinky! From the wee Judas,Paulo,PVH,Liam, through to Bobo etc.
My point being we may aswell get used to it.The days of players staying at the club for several years has gone (our league and the weather?).
Yes he may have been dishonest but would you expect any player to admit they were for the off with only a few months left of the season. They will trot out the line about the love for Celtic etc.
As a club we are all things to all (men) but we must be ruthless when a player is coming to the end of his contract, we MUST get a sell on fee. I know this may not sit well with some but it's about the good of Celtic.
In saying that i would have hate to have sold Henrik.
Although the pain of last week is subsiding Iam wary of the next several weeks. We just have to qualify for the CL and gain more revenue.
Hail Hail! indeed onwards and upwards.
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brummiebhoy
There was certainly a lot of hype surrounding Miller when he made the breakthrough to the first-team.His rise to prominence was curtailed by persistent injury and this would be more my concern if he did come back.He has potential even still and I would give him one last chance.Personal opinion I know.
The loaning out of players I think needs to be looked at seriously by the new management team.Link-ups with overseas teams or Coca Cola Championship sides would be good.Send the boys who need to develop their technique abroad,send the ones that need toughening up to England.
It would indeed be damning if one year at the bottom level of the game in Scotland was taking the rough edges off a players game,but we were not looking to actively encourage this.As stated by others here previously,the step from under 21's to first-team is huge.
I think the most important aspect of this would be making the players understand it was a development opportunity and not the first step to releasing them.
I believe Jock Stein many years ago advocated the set-up of "B" teams in the Scottish League,but as Celtic were dominating it was rejected.Another example of sectarianism and backward thinking from our national association.
BankieBhoy
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McGeady has a future at celtic but he must start to use the ball better, he doesn't need to beat the world everytime he gets the ball,a first time pass a quick cross sometimes brings more chances, defenders show him inside and then take the ball off him, even Sylla took the ball off him yesterday. I was also impressed with McManus yesterday looked composed but then again it was a friendly and not much pressure.
I would still like to see Riordan, hartley,Robson and Diamond signed to give some of our youngsters the chance to be farmed out for a year and gain senior experience.
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If Bobo is off, how could the board permit him to include such a clause to allow him to leave for nowt this summer? Mick is right, we should be picking up a fee for players. Maybe we couldn't afford to sell him in January as we were competing for the title but I feel that Bobo has simply used us. He has the cheek to say if nothing comes up that he fancies he'll stay at Celtic?! Maybe he has a 'Celtic will do' attitude and that is just not acceptable.
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Agree with your sentiments Mick.
Our board and whoever else is respnsible for sorting out contracts don't seem to come to terms with the Bosman ruling.
We've lost a lot of revenue in terms of transfer fee through what is basically incompetence.
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who's that Robson guy again (mind blank, so can't remember who he plays for nevermind how good he is)
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Sorry to digress Does anyone know if there are any celtic/irish bars in Kardanema,Kos? have checked out celticbars.com but nothing mentioned
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RE:At 6:44 PM, Anonymous
Barry Robson plays for Dundee Unt.
Not a bad player whom may i add i was singing the praises of prior to the Cup Final.
Though during the Cup game he liberally used his arm(elbow). Did any one else see the clear slap on Stan. Varga in the first half.
The way our finances are just now no one should be allowed to leave for nowt. Any money gained should be reinvested.
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Much discussion about Bobo. In Germany there is no discussion at present. Indeed, Bayern are finalising the transfer of Valerie Ismael from Werder Bremen, which would seem to negate their interest in Bobo. For those who don't know, Ismael is a ball-playing central defender much more suited to Bayern's game.
Paul67 you mentioned in recent article that we should be awaiting a big signing from the Bundesliga. My guess is that Magath + Hoeness were not only at the Rangers game to look at Balde, but to move some unwanted players. Torsten Frings? He's been given the Pearson treatment by Magath.
On the subject of youth players, we often see the phenomena of a group of youngsters making the breakthrough at the same time, such as Celtic's Quality St kids, Man. Utd with Giggs, Beckham, the Neville's, Liverpool with Fowler, McManaman, Carragher, Dundee Utd in the early 80's etc. However, the career paths of the individuals are subject to so many aspects, not least of which is excessive salaries, vast amounts of free time, serious injuries, that even the best of them do not always fulfil their potential. Heavy investment in youth policies does probably raise the average standard, but individual talent will always emerge regardless of the circumstances, as in other walks of life. Apart from Ajax (and perhaps Monaco), I cannot name a single team in Europe that has consistently introduced young players who have actually gone on to be successful over a prolonged period.
KDFfM
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Totally off topic,but I have to say that as someone that was ever so sceptical about GS becoming manager last week,I'm so excited about his first meeting with the press tomorrow morning.
He seems to have been quoted as saying that he will be given the resources to do the job so that bodes well.I pray to God that Paul's belief in the big spend will come true.He also admits there will be a number leaving with others coming in.
Let's hope for a few big signings this summer.Since last Sunday we have kept the huns off the back pages,we need to try and keep it that way for the next six weeks too.Let's make the most of any good news stories we have by using them strategically to usurp whatever the huns do.
Simply put,let us make sure that they are bricking it by the time the new season kicks off!!!!
Good Luck and God bless GS
BankieBhoy
P.S. My glass is not even half-full now,I feel as though I've just returned from the bar!!!!
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Re Bobo: I would take it that Martin wanted to do anything to have a settled centre back pairing in the run up to the championship - and think of this at January not May. So Bobo gets an offer of an improved contract there for him at the end of the season or the chance to move on - as long as he stays to the end of the season. That ended up being three minutes away from being a good compromise (bearing in mind the 'boro interest at the time).
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Lostrambling, I know there is a major property related project in the pipeline.
Fatman, big forecast, lets see.
Anon 1.05, poor Rod Stewart getting it in the neck from you, and not even in rhyme, you could have said “if you want my money….”
Cabbage, the Carling deal finishes next summer.
Tom the Tim, valid comment on lack of development for youth players.
On dropping Sky TV, forget it. The future will not be controlled by them, they would be very happy to do business with Celtic.
Brummiebhoy, aye, I hear you, McStay was suggesting we wait another 5 years, which will put us close to 30 years since No.8 himself broke through.
Great No. 8
I hope you are right. I also believe that Maloney has now missed his chance, which is very disappointing, as he is the one with the most under his belt.
No arguments over squad players, though again, it looks fine in paper.
Rintimtim
From the extensive list of young players you gave me Simon Donnelly has lasted the longest, and he was well short of what we are looking for.
McGeady, Marshall, Wallace, Kennedy, Beattie, may well make it, but where are the examples of people who have made it during the last 20 years.
For the record, John Fallon is without compare.
Anon, Robson plays for Dundee United. Left footed midfield player.
Anon 7.01, if you are going to Kos bring plenty to read. Quite island.
BankieBhoy, exited about Strachan tomorrow? You are me both. Lets hope he did not read my ‘reach for the sky’ article on management before I sit down in front of him.
On the subject of Bobo:
There is no deceit in him wanting to move to Bayern Munich, most players who are not Celtic fans would do this, and even some Celtic fans would (Nicholas, Johnstone, Macari, Hay).
Most importantly though, we will need to recruit a better player to replace him. I said long ago that the ‘big guy at the back’ strategy would not take us where we want to go in Europe, and the SPL teams are now wise to it.
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Shammy said..
Why all the talk about Liam Miller? I don't think he's the quality we should be going for. I'm looking for big signings this summer. If we keep the core of the current squad then we should be looking at adding quality, not players from Man U reserves.
We have to make our mark in Europe. That means experienced players from quality teams. Established players that know the score. I don't think it's too much to ask after the famine of the last few years.
Agree with earlier posts. Use the up and coming youth players to beef up the squad. I thought we had an option to blood these players over in Denmark with Mark Reiper's club. Is that not where Miller served his time?
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I read with interest the views of the various posters with regards to the Celtic youths failing to make the step up to the first team.
This seems to be a problem with Scottish players in general over the years.
Scotland seems to produce some excellent youngsters, who don't seem to improve between 18 and 21.
Looking back at the side that Paul McStay played in, arguably the next best player in that 5-4 side was Ally Dick. He promised so much, and really didn't show that promise.
The same applies to the team that got to the World Cup Final which include Brian O'Neil etc.
Is it the emergence of hormones, finding out what alcohol is, or simply poor coaching that is to blame for this?
Since Kenny Dalglish blooded some of the youngsters like John Kennedy 5 years ago, we have waited on the emergence of many of these players. However Kennedy, McManus, Wallace and Maloney have been no more than squad players. (Excluding Kennedy's injury for a moment).
McGeady seems to be the only one that can regularly stake a claim for first team action.
Who do you think is to blame for this? Is it the youth coaches or the first team coaches, or is it too large a bridge?
I think that by allowing the young players to go on loan to other leagues, as what happened to many of the Quality Street lads in the 60s, is the way forward.
Liam Miller certainly benefitted from his time under Marc Rieper at Aahrus.
Popeye Woodlock
Motherwell
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Where I blame the board and MON is that there do not appear to be any formal disciplines in place that insist on regular reviews of players contracts and performance from the youths upwards.
I wrote to Brian Quinn and MON on the subject more than 18 months ago. I was not afforded even the courtesy of an acknowledgement far less a reply.
On the question of young players coming through it surely appears obvious that it has been deliberate policy by successive managers over many years not to play the younger players consequently they get no experience. Compare this with the situation when choices and money was even more limited and it was necessary for the young players to play. They had problems - sometimes they were downright awful but they gained experience waiting for the right man to make them click. I can even name them
Craig Gemmell
Murdoch Mc Neill Clark
Johnstone Chalmers Auld Lennox
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Popeye
My own belief is that the Scottish game is not conducive to developing talent.Too much emphasis on fight and running,not enough skill factor.Add this to the fact that many managers are not prepared to risk youngsters for fear of relegation and you have a recipe for disaster.
That is why I would advocate sending the players abroad or to England.A lot of the development we are talking about isn't just ability,it's about confidence and mental strength too.
It takes a lot of different attributes to be a successful footballer,I feel that there is an element of mental fragility in the young guys coming through now.This is not something that could have been levelled at the great Scottish players of previous generations.
Ultimately,young players only learn by playing games,training with top players does not prepare you for facing them in a competitive match.We have got to give them that opportunity.
With regard to new signings,does anybody like me hope we get at least one in very quickly after GS gets his wee legs under the managers desk?
I think it would show the support that he means business.The higher profile the signing the better.In fact,Edgar Davids would be a good shout.
BankieBhoy
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Getting back to comments earlier today. I've heard from older fans that Celtic sang You'll Never Walk Alone before Liverpool did. Can anyone confirm this? My information is that Celtic fans sang it not long after it was heard in a Hollywood musical called Carousel (1950s?). The scousers then joined in later and Gerry & The Pacemakers finally released it as a single.
Regarding Robbie Keane. Some have said he has no european experience. What about his World Cup goals against teams of the calibre of Spain and Germany. This is surely on a par with the CL. He has also scored in World Cup qualifiers against Holland and others, not to mention Premiership goals against the top teams in England. He could be our "fox in the box" provided he gets a good service. He plays well alongside a big guy (Niall Quinn) and could strike up a good partnership with Sutton.
C'mon the Hoops
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Paul,
I used “half decent” in the Glasgow vernacular sense of the term. Translation: “good”!
The Balde situation is indicative of the club’s policy of asset mismanagement. Quite why anyone is surprised that Balde was able to negotiate such a deal is beyond me. In January of this year his negotiating position was significantly better than that of the club. He was in a position to dictate terms at this point in time.
The reality is that new contracts need to be discussed at least 18 months before they end to ensure equality of bargaining power. If a player will not commit at this stage he should be sold. But what if he will not consent to being sold, I hear you say? Well, the obvious solution is a pro-longed spell in the reserves, or worse! I suspect that the mere threat of this would be sufficient to persuade most half decent (see above translation ;-) players that they should really move on. Obviously for some of the squad players this is less of a threat. However, the reality is that such players would rarely command a fee on the open market in any event. As I said before, we really need to get into the habit of selling our better players before they get too old or before their contract expires. Bigger clubs than Celtic have no qualms about disposing of their better players at their peak; Juve, for example, are proven past masters of this tactic. For the foreseeable future, this is our only hope.
In terms of youth policy, what is indisputable is that other countries (rather than clubs) produce better technical players and athletes than we do in Scotland. No one appears able to answer why this is. Size is often touted as an excuse. While we are undoubtedly a small nation, marginally bigger countries appear capable of producing significantly better players than we do. Also, countries where football is not the primary sport (and therefore have access to a smaller pool of available talent) also appear to produce better players. I think that we can also rule out any pervasive genetic flaw which affects our youth (at least I hope we can!). This, to my thinking, leaves only environmental factors as the likely cause of this problem: investment, coaching, training methods, the Scottish tendency to revel in under-achievement etc.
Wee Jinky,
I don’t think that there is as much between as you think. I am eternally grateful to MON for the Seville year.
When the comparator is our previous 20 years of failure then the MON years were sensational. A more objective analysis, taking into account all of the factors previously mentioned, yields a different conclusion. It’s all a question of perspective.
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Why didn't he just sign a pre-contract agreement in January to do a runner at the end of the season then?
Because he was looking after himself, and only himself. The way he has pulled it off he has presumably got himself a big pay rise for the second half of the season, whilst still allowing himself to walk away with absolutely no benefit to the club. In fact, I think Middlesbrough were actually prepared to pay a fee for him in January, and given the inconsistent level of performance since then, we probably should have taken it.
I'm afraid I think that Bobo's opinion of himself is too high by far. He was virtually unknown before Celtic signed him, and he has the club to thank for where he is now, and for being whatever he claims to be now. For this he owes the club, and more so the fans.
When you consider that two of the most abiding memories of Bobo at Celtic are his sending off in the UEFA Cup Final, (which left his team-mates with NO chance of rescuing the match) and THAT handball against Lyon (which saw us eliminated from the Champions League), then you have to wonder what right he thinks he has to behave in the way he is doing. Why couldn't he have put in this "clause" that he could leave should the club receive an offer of say £5M. That way Celtic would benefit, as if he really is "top of their [Bayern's] list", thren I am sure they would come up with the fee. Celtic could then use the funds to sign a replacement.
But no, it's a case of "I'm alright Jack". Another Liam Miller scenario in effect.
So I hope that Bobo doesn't expect to come swanning back to CP pre-season just to get his fitness levels up for the sake of Bayern Munich, because that would be pushing things too far.
Strachan should tell him to conclude any deal BEFORE pre-season training begins, or to formally and legally rescind any "escape clause" and commit himself to the cause.
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Regarding Robbie Keane and Craig Bellamy.
It has been suggested that should (by some miracle) Bellamy decide that he wants to stay at CP and be an idol to TGFITW, then it may not be possible for Celtic to also sign Robbie Keane. However, consider the following scenario:
The club will not have unlimited funds this year, even if it is a larger than usual (or expected) sum. So how would they be able to fund a £5M deal for Bellars on top of a possible £4-5M deal for Keane?
Well, how about signing someone like Riordan for circa £1M (or Kuijt of Feyenoord for a little more) to play alongside Bellamy for next season, and have Keane sign a pre-contract agreement to join (for NOTHING) at the end of next season, when his Spurs contract expires?
I am sure that with Bellamy, Riordan, Hartson, Beattie, Maloney, McGeady and possibly Fernandez (seeing out his contract) we will have more than enough available firepower to regain our title. Then the following close season we lose Hartson and Fernandez and add Keane and perhaps promote another striker from the reserves.
It would be such a welcome change to be getting other teams' players for nothing, rather than giving up all of ours to charitable causes!
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Bankiebhoy & Parkheadcumsalford.
My comments about Lennon playing with Bobo(BooBoo?) were not to be taken seriously!
Personaly I agree with most on this site and see Balde as having regressed since he arrived, Varga is a ball player who likes time reading the game, sometimes when he doesn't have it !
So maybe we need two central defenders, not necessarily two centre halfs just one real clever game reader next to a great tackler.
So keep Varga as backup, punt Bobo and pray GS (not my choice) can somehow outshine the blessed Martin.
Enough said.
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bigchipsuk
That would indeed be the way to go.Have we ever signed anyone on a a Bosman?
As far as Bellamy is concerned,I would have thought that the response to Henrik's introduction yesterday would convince him that there is nowhere better in the world to be than Celtic Park.
If I were him,i'd want to re-create that adulation afforded to Henrik.He can only achieve it by staying and performing in the Hoops,but the reception he got on leaving the field suggests to me that he knows we want him to stay.
BankieBhoy
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anyone seen any photos from jackie's game on the web? i would love to see a shot of the King and all the rest
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Hi all,
Ant1973
Part of the reason MON didn't resign players going out of contract 18 months down the line was that there were always players he wanted to keep (rightly or wrongly) nearer the end of their deal and he just didnt have the money each year to tie up any additional contracts... I dont think this was short sightedness, just financial neccesity I'm afraid...
Hail Hail
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ant 1979, i can think of a great example of a country even smaller than ours which has produced consistently good young players. whats more, it has a similar culture, climate and economic standing. ireland has produced john o'shea, robbie keane, damien duff, andy reid in the past 5 years alone. huge irony then in our biggest talent for 15 years (mcgeady) choosing to play with them, but thats another discussion.
if silly season has started already with the 52 year old edgar davids being linked with us, then i'd like to alert fellow fans to the availablity of juninho on a free from lyon. they've lost their manager, several of their players have left, and i thought he was one of the best players we've come up against in the CL. plus we wouldn't have to spend extra getting his name put on the back of club gear, he could use the juninho-labelled stuff presumably kicking about parkhead since the wee man left!like Bigchips says, would be good to put this rule to our use rather than losing players for nothing as usual.
and popeye, i think marc reiper left aarhus to manage a hotel or something, and the inter club deal left with him. but its certainly worth doing again as it didnt harm millers career, and the other player farmed to aarhus, mickey doyle, didnt make it with us but is a hero at coventry and good enough to make the full ireland squad. maybe if moravcik or someone takes steps into management, we could establish links with that club?
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Bobo could have signed a pre contract agreement in january. Indeed he is known to have travelled to middlesborough and in all possibility had talks with other clubs. MON sees this and wants his full concentration on the title run in so he offers him a new contract with a get out clause in the hope that he decides to stay. Then Bayern come on the scene and MON leaves the club.
Although not a perfect scenario Mon saw that bobo was going to walk away for 0 puntas anyhows. MON did the right thing.
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If Liam millar does return to parkhead he should do so on reduced wages. He should do so to make up for the wage he took when he was consistently on the treatment table. I do think the constant booing at the testimonial was a tad over the top though.
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rumoid this site is starting to become like the daily record with all your advertisements for your t-shirts on nearly every post now,change the record.I'd pay a bit extra everytime for a Celtic made shirt with the profits going into the team and not your back pocket.Are you licensed to sell knock offs?
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anonymous 7.50
you must have been in the minority them if it was that loud and over the top.
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Dose any 1 know if the news conference is on the wireless.
???????????????????
Bigjoehasentgotatelly
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Lisburn Lion,
I remember reading about 1966/67 an ENGLISH football magazine (can't remember the name now)where a question was asked as to who was first singing YNWA. It answered that we were. I think they reckoned about 1963/4. It was about the same time as the Gerry & the Pacemakers recording.
Pakheadcumsalford.
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It was a good weekend. We didn`t exactly steal the cup and on Sunday there was a good atmosphere slightly marred by the booing of LM, who showed up well as a playmaker.
Lambert was terrific and I wondered if he could have contributed to our league run in. It was sad to realise that Martin and some top players are leaving.
The Irish team are strong and athletic and Shay Given looked really good. A good day out all round!
Here`s to the next 5 years!
Ian Old Kilpatrick
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Would it not have been an idea to keep Lambert to work with Strachan? After paying him for a year to help earn his coaching badges I think it was a shame to let him go.
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Anon 7.45
I don't buy that argument. There's a difference between making a financial committment which involves future years (which is what contarct negotiations are about) and cash going out this year. If we were always behind as your argument goes then who mis-managed that situation?
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Aologies Anon 7.45 My comment was actually meant in reply to Stephen 74
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A few points from the WGS press conference :
- no wholesale changes, wants Jackie and Lennon to stay
- has cross references MON's targets
- not too happy about him referring to the "old firm" and his friendship with Eck. We need to disassociate from them as much as possible.
- “positive” talks with Bellamy
- Garry Pendrey (who he) as assistant
FreddieM
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WGS off to a not bad start:
He said: 'When Martin confirmed finally his decision, Gordon became the unanimous choice of the board. When we met, his knowledge of the game, his coaching expertise, his enthusiasm and desire to win were the clinchers.'
Strachan said he was hopeful he could persuade on-loan Newcastle striker Craig Bellamy, whom the Scot managed at Coventry, to stay at Parkhead.
'I have worked with Craig before. He didn't give us any problems. I have spoken to him already and he is positive, very positive,' he said.
He also stressed he was not planning to make wholesale changes to O'Neill's side.
'I think it was documented Martin was going to make changes and I will be following along the lines of Martin,' Strachan added.
'I have been working behind the scenes - with Martin's permission - in the last two weeks, cross-referencing his [transfer] targets and players which I would like to bring in.
'There needs to be a turnover, a decent turnover. There is a nucleus of seven or eight players over the last five years who need help.
'I'm not ageist. Neil Lennon (33) and Jackie McNamara (31) must stay at the club.'
Strachan also had a message for defender Bobo Balde, who has expressed his desire to leave after being linked to Bayern Munich.
'Bobo Balde must have a fear of leaving Celtic. There are not many better places to go,' he told a press conference televised by Sky Sports News.
Strachan admitted he was stepping into the shoes of a 'legend', adding on Sky Sports: 'It's an honour that the board needed to follow someone who is a legend and I've got the mental strength to do that.'
His friendship with McLeish will add a new dimension to Old Firm encounters and Strachan said: 'It's unusual, I don't think the Old Firm have ever had such close friends as managers.'
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i note that strachan said he'd like for lennon and jackie mac to stay, no mention of bobo does he too not rate bobo? and talks with bellers were "positive", don't you just love management speak, seems he has a bit of homework done in the last few weeks so he may just hit the ground running, welcome aboard Gordon
KerryTim
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Garry pendrey was his assistant at Southampton...( a former birmingham city player and coach if my memory serves me correctly)...
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Paul, when exactly are you going to post the "BIG" story, you keep alluding to it, and are almost starting to tease us about it!! Please let us know when, - and God forbid don`t start becoming a "it`s my baw and I take the penalty kicks" type
man. Cheers for now.
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needless to say i wrote that before the rundown of the conference appeared here, only had seen some comments from the conference. I guess its not much of a problem if he's good friends with "heracio" on the other side, would prefer if he disliked him but hey, he will in time...
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Hi Derbyshirebhoy,
Just a quick reply as I see a new thread has arrived... The problem with the original contract negotiations is that the football market was a much healthier place when the likes og BBJ, Sutton thompson et all signed... had this sky money kept coming in Im sure the contract negotiations would have been happening again with 18 months left... but the bottom fell out of that market and I beleive that is what led to problems with cash for more contract renewals.
Hail Hail
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Henkeisgod
This week, it would have been inappropriate to start is with all that has been going on at the club in the last week or so.
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Sounds like the wee man has set his stall out early doors to boss the press. Good on ya, Gordon.
If Bobo's commitment to Celtic is reflected by his insistence in a get-out clause in a new contract with enhanced wages, then Bayern or whoever are welcome to him.
He's been a liability in crucial European games anway.
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Fields of Athenry is a bit of a dirge. It's also only been adopted by Celtic fans comparatively recently in our history. So it wouldn't be a great loss if it petered out. There are much better songs to sing if only the DJs would switch off the tannoys at Celtic Park and Hampden and let us sing!
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