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Paul – I agree, we cannot on one hand complain about players getting paid far and above what they are worth. During the Barca documentary a director was heard saying about a player that he would be offered the “ standard package” also Nonda signed for Roma on £10,000 a week. Big changes ahead and for the good of the club’s future we have to hang in there!
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Agreed Paul - Jackie is replaceable while I think its definitely more important to keep Lennon at the club - he knows what the club is all about and I think we can be rest assured he'll let any new players now what its about when they arrive.
Look at how many goals we lost down the right side when Jackie was playing at right back when Agathe was out.
Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen all at Parkhead.
Sorry Jackie but its time to go.
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I'm sorry to see Jackie go too, and yes, he's not irreplaceable - but the question is who do we have lined up to replace him?
Interpreting Jackie's comments, it seems he would have stayed had he been offered the two year deal straight off instead of a one year deal, followed by a two year deal when it was rejected...I'm not sure where that leaves the thought that Celtic played hardball with him. Sounds like they were willing to do enough to keep him, and the manner he was treated was the problem.
As a friend just said today, "One of the most honest player's I've seen in the hoops". Wouldn't disagree.
As for the implication that many of the plyers didn't perform to their best because they thought they were leaving - very disturbing, but probably realistic. I presume Paul you're suggesting that the likes of McNamara/Lennon did give their 100 %, but that the quality product at the 100 % was lacking due to minds not being fully on the job.
I hope we see some new blood SOON! Time is running down before that first CL qualifier...
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Got to agree with previous posters.
It makes sense to reduce the average age of the squad and make sure that the more experienced players contribute.
The Lambert situation last season was an absolute joke.I would hate to see Jackie go this way being brought out for cup games etc.
Looks like all change at the back this season, no bad thing after last.
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The team that capitulated the league has got to be dismantled ASAP.
Motherwell was my darkess hour and the eleven that played that day collectively shamed the jerseys. I would be ruthless and replace them all within a 2 year period. A one year contract for Lennon is probably reasonable to help in the rebuilding, Jackie warrants the same, if his ambition lies at Wolves, then he is not the man we need to move this club forward.
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Interesting switch on the front page of the Club website. Yesterday had Jackie on the front advertising the new strip...today it's Lennon!
Heopfully they'll react as quickly to the departures with getting some new quality players in...
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I will be sad to see Jackie go....I think he was one of our most consistent players last season...He was the only one of the defenders who looked composed in most games (Barcelona aside)... Thankfully he had his testimonial before we shuffled him out the back door.....
Everyone is replaceable if there is a will to replace them....lets hope that WGS has some replacements lined up sharply.....
Look out for the words "biscuit tin" in today's papers unless we have some good news from the PR team....
On the subject of the Barca programme & our PR dept...Barcelona have a daily newspaper to fill with club related news and manage this well......and we cant even get a website updated daily....shocking!!....
Why is it that there are about 15 tic sites run by fans out there and all of them are updated daily (or thereabouts) and the PR team that we pay for cant do it??....
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you're all joking right?
how can you compare Jackie's situation to that of Lambert/Lennon.
1) He's on nowhere near the same money those guys were on.
2) He's only 31. Lennon is 33, Lambert 34.
McNamara would have been well deserving of a 2-year contract, and has young enough legs to maintain his consistency.
He wouldn't have wanted any more money that he is on already.
Given the choice of renewing McNamara's contract or Lennon's, I'd have taken Jackie.
Sure, he's replacable, but it's another chunk out of the transfer budget. A chunk we could have avoided if we hadn't taken Jackie's loyalty for granted.
the board have been shown up for fools on this occasion, no doubt.
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Agreed re PR dept - have been shocking over the last few years and the other lot have regularly trumped any of our good news . We need a right good feel-good press conference - Friday mid-afternoon would do - gives all of us the weekend press to read all about it. Perhaps get Bellamy in and one other big(gish) name - don't mind waiting until a week on Friday....
Celtic will be a better football team next year - can't see the other lot improving as much as we will.
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Celtic captain and current Scotland international going out the door for nothing, how many others are doing the same this year. The budgets you are away to look at Paul67 would look a bit better if we started getting a return on investment.
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Have to say, as McStay 8 mentioned on the last thread, I think the manner in which Jackie has been treated is digraceful. I know we have to learn from situations like Lambert but how many players around Europe have given ten years service to their club and on the wages Jackie is reported to be on.
There is no place for sentiment today, but as Jackie is a year or two younger (and also fitter) than Lenny, I feel he deserved a two year deal up front.
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so that's another one for the taxi then......
i always liked jackie as a "back-up" player but thought that when he was a first pick for the team, it was a sign that our first eleven wasn't quite good enough.
always gave 100% but that's not always enough. if you threw me the hallowed hoops and told me to get on the pitch and give 100% you'd get that, and more. wouldn't mean that i'd deserve a run out every week though. i'm sure the punters would be chucking rotten fruit and veg at me....!! what we need is better quality PLUS 100% commitment.
so who's first choice for captain now then? if lennon was going to be here for more than one season, i think he'd be perfect for it. playing where he does, he can see the whole game and he'd definately kick some bahooky when required!!
failing that, it's just GOT to be stan, hasn't it...???
watching with interest from afar..
alan
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Paul - understand the board's strategy about reducing wage bill and average age of squad, but I don't feel that the Lambert situation applied with Jackie.
For a start, he wouldn't be on more than 10 grand a week for the duration of the contract. Then take his wealth of experience in OF and CL games into account, never mind his flexibility.
During the course of a long season with players picking up various injuries, here's a guy who could do an effective job at left-back, right-back, "Lennon" role or part of a back 3?
Big mistake and definately not the start I was looking for under Strachan.
AND more negative PR...great!
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Agree with Paul and other posters. We can't let sentiment get in the way. For those who criticize the board on this, remember it will have been WGS and probably MON before him that will have recommended the 1 year deal.Jackie has been a great servant and received a lucrative testimonial, boosted by MON's departure and Henrik's appearance. The other thing to rememer is that Jackie's form has always fluctuated. No guarantees on which McNamara we would have seen next year.
Thanks Jackie and good luck.
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Have to disagree Paul, we are making exactly the same mistake as Lambert, Boyd, etc by offering Lennon a million pound deal.
I've never been a fan of Lennon, for me he summed up everything that was bad about our style of play under MON (slow, can't pass, can't dribble, can't shoot).
Surely we should be looking to the future rather than wasting money on a 34 year old just because (as Mr_Stein says) he knows what the club is all about.
Although not his biggest fan it surely would have made more sense to keep Jackie. He's younger, more versatile and I'm sure after a decade at the club he surely knows what it's all about as well.
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Just typical of this lot in charge-they obviously took Jackie for granted and I cant fault him for sticking it right up them.I am absolutely gobsmacked-dont know why,I should be used to it by now.
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Jackie was a wonderful player for Celtic. I remember him finding his place in the team at the same time as Simon Donnelly and them forming a partnership down the right wing that was exciting to watch. The fact that he stayed at the club and continued to improve contrasted with Simon's ill-advised move and subsequent decline. His role as a utility player who understands the current squad inside-out cannot be filled overnight. What is disturbing is that Strachan made it one of his priorities to keep Jackie, and in that respect either he or the board have failed. I agree that the Lambert situation does not apply. Jackie would not be off taking coaching courses rather than reporting for training the season after next.
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The summer transfer season is often referred to as a revolving door at present only the exit sign seems to be illuminated at CP.
Judging the news at present this is a loss given Jackie's long service and value to the team over the last few years. However, we can only really make an informed judgement when we see his replacement, lets wait until late July before delivering the final verdict.
I hope I am not being to harsh on jackie but I never saw him as the driving vocal captain we require.
If we are going to build the team around petrov, lets prove that by playing him cente mid with the captains armband.
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Anyone who feels we can replace Jackie (a strong realisation of what the club is about, £10k per week, CL and international experience, another tranfer fee for replacement and his versatility) is living in fantasy land. I've been there, its nice, but this cant happen in reality.
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oh, how fortunate that the laptop loyal only start reporting the complications with the greeks contract the day before they sign hemdani from marseille. Another conveinant coincidence.
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So far we have seen the following leave...
Rab 32
Joos 29
Lambo 35
Sylla 28
Jackie 31
Henchoz 30
Juninho 33
I reckon the following are likely to join them...
Laursen 29
Varga 32
Hedman 32
Fernandez 29
Now that would 11 players out the door at a club with already a small squad.
On a positive note though the youngest of these players was 28, and hopefully we will replace all of them with players under 28.
Now we will see how many replacements we sign.
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Jimios, 100% effort for sure, but the team spirit had already left. Time for big changes in my opinion.
Ginger Prince, why are you so quick to come out with the “fools” comment? Jackie has signed a one year deal for the last two seasons at the insistence of Martin O’Neill, why is this now foolish?
Covenant, it was Strachans decision to keep Lennon, he wanted to keep McNamara, but each of them was only worth a certain price to him. Who do you think Martin would have been advocating on behalf of most?
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Rangers signing of Brahim Hemdani on a bosman is described as "a significant transfer coup" on sky sports web site. Interesting also is their stats on him for last season played 7, 4 of which were as a sub!
How will the departure of Jackie and the arrival of Hemdani be reported in the press? answers on a very small postcard please.
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I was suprised to wake up to find the jackie was leaving. Thinking towards the link with the 3 Polish players (2 of whom were right-backs) I shouldn't have been so suprised. However, rationally looking at the deal being offered and Celtic playing 'Hard Ball' with players I am encouraged in one respect. Until Celtic start drawing the line with contracts and wages the bill will never drop. They achieved this with Lennon and although McNamara was on lower wages than most of the team - which I believe is unfair to ask of a club captain - they have stuck to a structure they want to follow. The board are lacking in good PR but at least they are being strong and not giving into player, media or fan pressure (when it is not rational).
I will be sad to see McNamara go as he was a good player and a good example to youngsters and new signings. Saying this, I believe we should be looking for higher quality players than him if we are to build on the squad. He may have warrented a 2-year deal as he is younger than Lennon but nobody knows the situation he may be in after a season.
IMO the pressure will be put on the board now more than ever and if signings have not already been made some will have to come - and come quick! If players were due to be introduced at a press conference on Friday this may be brought forward if the pressure is high.
I am concerned at the lack of a defence we now have, especially considering how poor it was last season, but perhaps this can be viewed as a good thing - a fresh start.
I have said earlier on this website that next season I would have asked Petrov to be the captain. He encaptulated the desire to win we need at the club. I'm sure anyone who seen the last 2 games of the season and how he was bursting a gasket to get back and going off his nut at the defence, in particular Agathe, would agree. The only thing that would stop me would be the sentement of having McNamara as captain. Could this possibly be a reason towards him deciding to leave?
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Celticbhoy...
He also threatened to knock the managers block off in training in April......
But Im more interested in what we are doing to be honest.....Has anyone seen our manager since he started work?
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Jackie was one of my favourite players. He could defend adequately and was comfortable with the ball at his feet (a rare thing amongst Celtic defenders in recent years). I will be sad to see him go, but I agree with Paul. The club need to take a strong line in negotiations.
I wish Jackie had taken the one-year deal. But he didn't. No hard feelings, I hope he does well at Wolves.
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They say no news is good news, I think us well seasoned Hoops fans can disprove that. After analysing some of my previous comments, i sound like a grumpy git - you see this summer like every other summer fills me with dread. Reason, the type of player regularly linked with us, the apparent poor handling of negotiations with existing players and the unending rumours of possible good signings only to be discarded like todays tabloids. If i am honest i think the loss of a versatile player such as Jackie Mac is unfortunate, but as much as i would like to castigate the board, if we want the wage bill and the average age down then tough decisions have to be made (Barca and thier dutch players last summer is a great example of moving on the older high earners). I am now beginning to believe that we will have a strong 15 players augmented by those from the reserves and youth teams, at present given all the departures and all our hopeful future departures like fernandez and hedless we're probably left with a core of at least 9 of the current first team squad (excluding Beattie and Bellamy). What worries me is that we're away watching strikers, or being linked with poor strikers from the Championship - does that reflect our ambition, or are more departures imminent. Is it wise to let so many players leave, albeit underachievers, and have no adequate or better replacements, history of previous summers has taught me not to expect too much, but it doesnt stop you dreaming of what might have been.
Hoping for a good news story soon - anything will do, even DD getting new golf clubs would be a start.
Vive la revolution
Navarro
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Jackie has turned down a 1 year contract, he has chosen to leave, which of course is his right.
He's gone to Wolves, which suggests he's not of the quality we'd like to see at the club.
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I am of course sad to see Jackie go - I believe he could have the job for us for at least the next year and possibly the one after that. There are not many players who can be utilised in as many positions as he has been and still be of a consistent level (I agree - not always the most skillful of players but you can't have a team full of them!).
What I am more shocked about though is the amount of players leaving. I knew there would be a few this summer but it is getting ridiculous. The majority of them are only squad players but it still means we are without them if we need them. I don't understand where the money is going to come from to replace this many players. I think we may be even thinner on the ground than we were last season.
I only hope WGS has somethin up his sleave (and not only his hankie!)
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I thought a revolving door allowed access in both directions. So far all we have seen is an escape chute.
Still, with no signings over the summer, it will allow the youths to get a shot in the first eleven.
If we make the split next season we will be lucky.
So hope I am going to be proved wrong, but all this looks like is a cost cutting exercise so the board can get bigger dividends.
Hail Hail.......(starts to weep)
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Rab 32
Joos 29
Lambo 35
Sylla 28
Jackie 31
Henchoz 30
Juninho 33
Laursen 29
Varga 32
Hedman 32
Fernandez 29
Out of the list above who have left or almost left I would only thought: Varga and McNamara would be worth keeping. As for the rest they are very much squad players and IMO the younger lads at the club could step in and do just as good a job for the club if we were hit with injuries (I am not saying they are as of yet at a quality good enough to play consistenly for the club but IMO neither are many in the list above).
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Re 11.53 jquinn67
Another factor to consider with the list of 11 departures, only 3 of them played a significant number of games.
The number in the squad is not
important.Replace those 11 with 6 first team players i would be delighted.
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Louden Tavern Rumour -
My mate sent me this email last monday....
My mate is an architect for the GCC. He has told me that the original plans for the Clockwork Orange extension include a new rail/underground station to be built at the Duke st. station. This area of the town had already been earmarked for 'regeneration' immediately after the recent Haghill revamp.
The excellent new is, that the station would be built on the site of the Louden Tavern AND the Bristol bar. ON TOP OF THEM! i.e. They would be demolished !
The plans are called 'Celtic Walk' which my mate assumes would be the name of the station. He said that there are 3 sets of electric walkways in the designs. Which he said would be the longest in the uk, longer than anything at Heathrow. One goes to the Forge shopping centre and the other two are to and froms to Celtic Park.
The name of the station is to encourage Rail and underground travel to CP on matchdays to reduce road congestion.
He couldn't find dates as the whole underground project has not been fully scheduled.
More boringly, plans for Partick station will have two underground lines on different loops, with the new one going out as far as clydebank.
Cessnock will be closed as part of the new plans with an old never completed station being opened somewhere too.
squeak!
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Paul you say
'it was Strachans decision to keep Lennon, he wanted to keep McNamara, but each of them was only worth a certain price to him. '
If that's the case why the late offer of a 2 year deal. It suggests to me that because he previously signed two 1 year deals in the past he would do so again. I think the late offer was a panic measure when it suddenly dawned on them that he was preparing to walk.
As I said on the last thread I have no problem with McNamara being shown the door, it's the way it has been handled that concerns me. It GS believed 1 year was as much as he was worth we should have stuck to our guns. Instead we have the worst of all options. We have given the impressions that he has left against our wishes. More ammunition for the chip wrappers.
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BradBhoy: Do not share your concern about losing players, or a previous post saying that the squad was too small. The squad, if anything has been too big of late, but a squad that consisted of a recognisable and familiar first team and then a long list of "backups" and youngsters who were not used even when the first team players were carrying injuries. In the Barca documentary we saw the board and manager sitting down to identify 22 players, 2 for each position, each of equal quality. Mourinho had exactly the same approach when he took over at Chelsea. it leads to competition and a formation that does not need to change.
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Greetings all from Zante. I'm in a good mood - i've just found a 1 euro coin at the bottom of the hotel swimming pool - this will pay for my Cornetto.
Anyways just heard about Jackie going to Wolves - to be honest he was a great servant to the club - but all things must pass and Celtic have probably learned their lessons from giving Hartson & Thomson 27 year contract extensions
Right i'm away for that Cornetto now. Hope to hear of some signings soon
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The more things change, the more they stay the same.
The news about Jackie Mac is the bad old days all over again.
Bully boy tactics by the board, taking someone's loyalty for granted.
And what happens when someone stands up to them?
Back down at a rates of knots and give them what they want.
Only too late.
At least Jackie had some decency.
However some way to treat the club captain.
Really sets the tone for the required rebuilding job.
The issue here is who was behind this? Suits or tracksuits?
Past history suggests the suits.
The whole thing stinks.
Very poor performance all round.
On the back foot already.
No-one in, loan deals all round.
Surprise and delight?
How do you spell that?
Board version = "S # A # M # E O # L # D P # I # S # H"
WGS has been hobbled before he can get started.
The rabbit will need to be the size of a artic hare when it comes out.
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Hmmm Jackie's leaving fills me with much apprehension. While he was not always my favourite player, I felt better having him in the side knowing our replacements than not. Joos and Ulric are IMO not as good as Jackie even at left back.
I was half hoping that Lenny would leave as he costs much more to pay and that Jackie could play in that holding role in midfield that he has done for Scotland on a few occasions.
Now that my first choice for that role has signed for them (Murray), I can't say that competing at the highest level in Europe is going to be on our agenda next season with Neil still in our centre midfield. While I think he is a great character in our squad, his position needs someone blessed with pace. Sadly Neil was left behind when the speed genes were being dished out. In the CL games away at Shakter and in the last few mins v. Milan, Neil was unable to compete as they ran away from him. Similarly when we were humped by Porto away a few years ago in the CL when he was awarded MOM, I was stumped. Neil got all the plaudits for playing in a sweepers role behind our CBs. Hang on if Neil did his job where he was supposed to do in the midfield and stopped Deco etc running at us from there, perhaps we would not have been in such a position where we needed to defend so deeply.
Jackie with slightly more pace may have been able to do this for a season and hopefully bring young Lawson or the U'19s lad Ferry,through the ranks to be the long term replacement. As usual we seem to be struggling in the signings stakes.
I just hope that the club realsie that signing players on EPL wages who weren't good enough to keep their respective teams in the EPl i.e. Camara, Phillips, Niemi and very definately Huckerby, or players who can't get a game at their very ordinary EPL teams (Konchesky, Juninio etc..) is hardly going to improve our team to the level where we see ourselves competing in Europe after Christmas.
Hoping that the signings will be sooner rather than later and the arguement that its better for us that they arrive later for our cashflow does not hold true. I would require the entire squad to have a complete pre-season training so that the team hit the ground running and not caught cold like we were against Basle a few years ago. Its not going to help our cash flow, if our best X1 is unable to play due to lack of fitness or even knowing eachother by the time of the qualifiers.
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Jackie was a good servant to the club and is still a decent player but its definitely time for a major overhaul. I wish him all the best at Wolves but I can’t see myself getting too upset at his departure. Time to move on and lets just hope the new signings start asap
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Let`s not get too carried away, feeling sorry for poor old Jackie, yes he`s been a good servant but to say he wasn`t on great money is a bit wide of the mark. He threw a £30,000 themed birthday party for his misses last year, that`s more than i earn a year so poor old Jackie couldn`t of been doing too badly off Celtic.
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rumoid, you asked “Has anyone seen our manager since he started work?” It appears he is in Poland, or is going to, in order to look at up to 3 players, Polish league has 2-3 games to go.
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Never seen that lads mentioned and not even going to attempt to say their names apart from Klos. But I hope they are diamonds in the rough because at the moment we need a few and I'm not sure they fit the bill we need at Celtic. On a more positive note though the Polish way of playing football probably fits in with the style of the SPL.
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If these are the players WGS and Mon have compared notes on why do we have to send our manager out to have a look at them in his first week....Is this not peter Lawells job....the vacuum is getting larger.....
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Well what can I say? I think everyone in this thread has a fair point. I'm sure we all remember Jackie's contribution to halting the dreaded 10 under Jansen and some sterling displays since then as well, but......... all good things come to an end.
Good luck Jackie!! Hope it works out for you.
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I wouldn`t say it`s Peter Lawell`s job to look at player`s, certanly not. It`s the manager`s job, PL only comes into play when WGS gives him the green light.
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That's charming.
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Doesn't have the same effect when not posted directly after the charming man hiumself.
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Paul,
Cracking site, gives all fans an insight into the Financial affairs of Celtic and how the Corporate World influences what we see on the park, week in week out.
Keep up the good work!
I would like to set the record straight on what exactly happened between Celtic and McNamara.
McNamara was not approached by Celtic until 2 weeks ago. This was due to Darren Jackson (His Agent) contacting Celtic, informing them that McNamara had other options (i.e. Wolves)
McNamara's current salary is 11k per week (£572k per annum). Celtic up to 2 weeks ago had not offered McNamara a contract.
Celtic offered McNamara a considerably less package than he is currently on (I do not have the exact details) and a 1 year contract.
Glen Hoddle has been contacting McNamara every day for the last 2 weeks. McNamara went down to Wolves to check their set up, liked what he say and was offered a better package and a 2 year deal.
McNamara was looking for a 2 year deal on a better package than he is curently on. When you consider the Mr Balde is on £28k per week, I think the guy is entitled to this (being club captain and his performances over the last 2 years, £15k would be appropriate).
Ask yourself this, who would you rather have in your team on a big European night - Mr Consistent (McNamara) or Eratic Colosious (Balde).
Celtic then offered McNamara a 2-year deal on a better package. McNamara had already given his word to Hoddle that he would sign, as at that stage Celtic were no were he wanted to be. Being a man of principles, dignity and honour (commenable), he is going to sign for Hoddle and Wolves.
So make your mind up folks, put yourself in McNamara shoes, what would you have done.
Ask yourselves this, how much will it cost to replace McNamara and was this accounted for in the suppossed £10 million transfer budget that WGS has at his disposal. I think not!
Well done Celtic, nice and proactive as usual.
As for postings on Lambert's contract being a waste of time, people should remember that the year in the reserves will have benefited the young players tremoundsly, to have a player of Lambert's stature (How many other SPL players have a CL Winners Medal: Stefan Klos, the player most supporters would have between sticks at Parkhead),involved at Parkhead is for the good of the club. Lambert will be an excellent manager and was one of the most underated players at Parkhead. Look how easy teams tore straight through the centre of the park in the past season.
If you want to have good players, you have to pay the going market rate, hence why Henrik was afforded a game at the end of last season.
Lambert said, which is true that the team that took us to Seville, will not be appreciated until they have all departed.
Rangers have shown Celtic up once again, in getting in early and obtaining a good Bosman. You have to ask the question, what is happening with the Scouting Network, why the competition are always one step ahead of us.
Who is going to replace Agathe (when he is injured) or fill in at left back or play centre of midfield. Ask yourselves that one folks.
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Paul et al,
Now that Jackie has gone, the captains armband must go to Stilian. In my opinion, WGS must take petrov into his office, hand him the armband and tell him he is the future of the club who will never be played out of position again. Our new team should be built around petrov and we will then see the best out of the only world class player currently at parkhead.
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Jack D
My point was that WGS has been looking at players for months and him and Mon compared notes so the legwork should already be done. The contractual stuff should be up to PL...
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Thanks Jackie for your 10 years of service, but it is time to move on.
How many Celtic fans have been saying for the past 2 years that the team needs broken down and improved?
Now that it is happening, people are complaining.
Whilst McNamara was an honest professional with Celtic, he is not at the top notch that we should be expecting. That was summed up in Martin O'Neill's early spell when he was on the bench or in the stand.
Now we can look forward with Stilian Petrov as an influential captain, at the heart of WGS's newlook side.
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So who thinks it will be Petrov and who Lennon as captain next season? I'm for Petrov but I can see it going either way.
Paul
As far as you are aware, has there been any signings made?
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Jackie Mac for me was a player who got better with age. He is not CL class but who is at Celtic? Jackie Mac was value for money how much are we still paying Fernandez ? Have the financial loose ends for Juninho and Camara all been completed? Why was Lambert allowed a 30K week two year retirement plan? Does WGS not look a wee bit stupid in NOT being able to keep Celtic´s captain?
So where is the replacement player, that´s going to cover for Rab Stan and Bobo? I think the bonuses he got for goal line clearances must have emptied the biscuit tin, "seamless transition"
And with the UEFA new rules regarding home players .. dont worry we have enough scottish schollboys being primed for Falkirk sitting on the bench.
Lubo was already 33 when he arrived at Celtic, Jackie Mac is 31.
Lets not have a go at Jackie he got a deserved testimonial and he is going to a club that has infinitely more ambition than the great Glasgow Celtic. He´s off to the English first division with Wolves.
The 64,000 dollar question is why are Celtic historically so CRAP at doing buisness and treating their fans like horse manure. This must be the recipie to acquire an enormous faithful following. Treat them with utter disdain, make them pay over the odds at every opportunity and give them 0 information before they start to get uppity and have ideas above their station like being shareholders etc.
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Rumoid
Fair enough, i see your point. Maybe these are over and above the player`s targeted, if the rumour`s are true there`s already a few deal`s done and we`re just waiting on one or two coming back from holiday?
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Thanks and goodbye, Wee Jackie. I tend to agree with the earlier poster, any of the team who blew it against Motherwell are welcome to go, if thats what they want to do. In truth I've always been concerned when Jackie was played as a defender, simply because he has no pace. On a different subject, ref Junihno's piece in the media yesterday about MON being the only manager he has ever played for who does not give a pre match teamtalk. Sour grapes or possibly some truth in it?
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Here we go thought this was another case of Paul speaks and we all nod in agreement we love you Paul.
Sorry but we've let our club captain and one of our most consistent players leave for free.
I for one wish we had kept jackie, ever club needs a player like jackie.
To go on about playing hard ball and getting wages in structure is fine, but for if MON only merited him worth a 1yr deal for the last few seasons, when he wasted our "Short Supply" of cash on Juninho, Camara, Henchoz, Fernandez etc is a disgrace and don't get me started on the contract extension for Thomo, what a waste of money he was this year. Paul your saving grace for him was his pass to Bellamy that should have won us the league.
Rant over and here's to a brighter future good luck Jackie, wish you were staying but life goes on.
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There's always some truth in what people say. Don't know how much in this case but a lot of the time it seemed as if MON never spoke to the players. Just think about the contract situations with some of the squad, how can you be at training every day and not know if the manager is going to offer you a new contract or not, how disheartening must that be?
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If the stories are true about us looking hard at some Polish guys, then that's good news. We have been saying for a long time on CQN to check out markets like this.
The striker with the "Magic" name sounds like a winner.
I'm also for Stan as the new captain.
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I can't believe Jackie's gone, he was the first name on my team sheet for the last 10 years. The one player i could identify with.
Now that he's gone, we have lost a player who could play just about anywhere in the team, and guys like that are worth thier weight in gold. My thought was that if Neil Lennon moved on, Jackie would take on his role.
He must be upset that after all his years of service, he was
treated shabbily by the club in the end. Of course his testimonial can hardly be described as shabby, but he was shown a lack of respect the past couple of years, in that his contract was always left till the last minute, and he was just expected to put up with it, and re-sign.
Thanks Jackie, i'll always remember your great partnership on the right with wee simple (Simon).
Excuse the sentimentality :o)
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I have to agree with many of you that now is the time for Stilian to be asked to step up and be captain. Let him play his best position - centre midfield - and build our team around him, he is genuine class, we need him and the captaincy would let him know he is more than wanted at CP, he is essential!
Much as I like Neil Lennon and the role he plays, it is time for the younger generation to take on the mantle of leadership, hence Stan's progression.
Time to move on and look forward.
HAIL! HAIL
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Hoots McGraw,
Thank you. Some sanity at last.
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jack d - when we refer to Jackie being on "not very much money", it's bviously in the context of his working environment, and what those around him are getting paid.
Paul - I can't believe you don't think the board messed up just a little here. If a one year contract was all they thought Jackie was worth, then when scramble at the end and offer two years when it's too late.
IMO, the board took Jackie's loyalty for granted. I would even go so far as to suggest they wanted to wait to see who WGS brings in, and then decide whether to make an offer to Jackie at all.
I agree that if we are to progress in the direction we all want, then players of Jackie's ability need to be replaced, but I still think he could have done a good job for another two years.
The fact the board paniced when they realised Jackie might actually leave, proves the messed up and I feel I'm justified to brand them "fools".
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Some very good posts on here about our departed captain. I liked him as a player, but as captain, I hold him (with others) responsible for our demise at the end of the season. He also went off form pretty badly. Godd luck Jackie for the future.
But, Rangers have signed 2 captains (Murray, Hemdani), and ours leaves.
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Paul - I always smile when I see how you always try to turn another board disaster into a triumph. Lots of praise to you on your mental gymnatsics on this one.
TimoTay - you too - I've yet to see ANY evidence of rebuilding - dismantling and cost cutting certainly - but rebuilding???
Fact is GS stated he wanted Jackie to stay and now Jackie is gone due to the clearly crap offer made by our illustrious board. Now surely that can't be a good thing - or is GS already wrong?
Is the fact that we lose a very experienced defender, who in fact was our most mobile and consistent defender and our captain to boot a good thing? Tell me do you think we can get a quality replacement for less than £10K a week.
This is the sign of a board who is ignoring the obvious, making a hash of its negotiations and praying it will be alright in the end.
Its no good blaming bad PR (there is nothing good to say) or blaming the press. In less than a month we have lost the league, lost a fabulous manager and are offloading large numbers of players. Yet we hear NOTHING. Where is our new manager - is he still on holiday? The fans are clearly nervous (and with good cause) - what a disasterous start to the new regime.
We have been going through this every year since Seville - nothing.
News on the share issue is non-existant - clearly that money will not be available this close season - cold feet indeed Paul.
Even for me - this is an extremely bleak situation.
I'll be seeing you in the car park..........
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I don't think it would be wise to blame anyone other than our former captain for his departure.
The reason he has given to the press for his decision to move is more security for his family, i.e., guaranteed two years inflated footballer’s salary as opposed to the one on offer from the hoops. Does Mr McNamara not see that if he continues to perform at his current standard then WGS will undoubtedly extend his contract by another year?
Over the last couple of years we have been handsomely paying two other former captains to sit on the bench when the are unable to perform top the required standard. This is not to become a trend.
Boyd should have left a year earlier. Lambert too. We cannot allow McNamara to exploit the club in the same way.
Let’s get off the back of the manager and the board- who have after all a greater interest in the future of the club than the elderly players who seek to boost their pension funds.
Enjoy the Coca Cola League Jackie- you'll miss the win bonuses
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CALLING ALL LONDON TIMS
Just to update you from my previous posts, the new London City CSC is a go go. This will be situated in the city, close to Liverpool Street Station. As far as I understand most likely "The Bevis" will be the boozer.
I'll keep you all posted with details as and when they are sent through.
For those who know me you have been sent an email and added to the mailing list.
Cheers
Martybhoy
(With a burnt nose from sunny Aberystwyth last week)
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It's really sad to see Jackie go he has always been one of my favourite Bhoys. Also we have now lost our captains.
What really worries me though is the communication between the players and the club. No one seems have a clue whats going on or where they stand. Jacke said he waited for the contract to *finally* come and it was only a year contract. This is really poor communications surely especially for a player that has been here so many years. Our contracts always drag on for months on end. We lost Liam Miller this way, Juninho didn't have a clue were he stood, neither did Henchoz. It seems Valgearen didn't have any idea either and i wouldn't be surprised if Lennon is totally baffled right now either.
Surely we need to improve on this side of things.
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Who was the person who was telling us earlier on this year that Jackie Mac was the obvious person to replace the ageing and highly immobile Lennon ?
Now what we have ended up with is a past it 34 year old on a £1 million contract.We could have had a person when at the end of his contract would have been 33 and cost the same amount over two years.
To me Lennon represents a style of play that does not progress you in Europe. We should have thanked him for service over the past 3 years and allowed him to move on.
Oh , and the answer to my question ? Mr Paul67 himself.
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This Maciej Zurawski sounds like a good player but does anyone have any info on him as a player: how he plays, his age, how to pronounce his name etc?
Does this mean Bellamy is a no-go or Hartson/Sutton are leaving?
To anyone who has their calculators out, what is the wage bill down to now? How much money on wages per week can we afford when signing new players?
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Ther polish players have not been signed they are just being looked at, so no need to learn how to pronounce their name just yet.
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Davortim, I can't see how you have come to that conclusion. Jackie has been one of the most professional players that I have ever seen. He has been shafted by the board in my mind who are trying to cut down on costs. How do the think they will replace Jackie and save money? There are no decent excuses for the manner in which he has been treated. Read Hoots McGraws post at 1.01pm.
Neg Anon is spot on, this is very typical of this board and even the most patient of us are beginning to get a wee bit fed up I think.
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Hoots McGraw said:
"So make your mind up folks, put yourself in McNamara shoes, what would you have done."
When the club came back to me with the 2 year deal that I had asked for I'd have said "geez yer pen, where do I sign?".
Jackie has been a great servant of our institution for as long as many can remember. And his reputed salary, along with the fact that he has turned down 2 newly promoted Premiership clubs in favour of Wolves, shows that he is motivated by more than just money (relative to his peers at least).
But he owes Glenda Hoddle nothing, so he could have said "sorry, I've changed my mind". A verbal agreement isn't worth the paper it's not written on. So if he really loves the club so much he coul have re-signed the new deal.
Alas, it's Jackie's decision, and I am grateful to him for his service to Celtic over the last 10 years. And to those who imply that his testimonial went some way to compensating for being one of the worst paid (actually "least well" paid) players at the club: I understood that the proceeds from his testimonial game went to charity.
I wonder what GS makes of it though. One of those players that we need to keep because they know so much and their attitude and commitment can rub off on those around them...! (or words to that effect). Mmmm.
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IMO Jackie was never our captain, sure he wore the armband, shouted head`s/tail`s swapped the odd pennant in europe. He never organised or ralleyed the troop`s when there head`s were down. Again IMO i think Lennon did this. To those of you that think Jackie could have filled Lennon`s boot`s your all mistaken. I don`t think Lennon get`s enough praise. Thank`s for the ten year`s Jackie, but i`m glad he`s away.
Petrov for me should be our new captain.
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The thing is with Jackie is that he is very fit. He hasn't been troubled much be injury over the last few years. He is our captain plus one of our most consistant performers. Surely he has done enough to justify a 2 year contract at least.
Now we two left backs not just one we also need to get ourself a right back. We have also lost a player who can cover with ease on the right side of the park and in the middle.
Wolves must be rubbing their hands with glee right now. They have got a fantastic player with European calibre who is a complete pro for absolutely nothing.
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I'll be back....
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A note of caution on the Polish striker. He is said to have scored goals against Madrid, Lazio, and so on, but don't listen to paper talk. That smacks of the pr rubbish the huns spout every time they sign a player.
I seem to remember us signing a guy who had scored more than a few in the champions league, against Madrid, Milan, and plenty other big sides.
His name was Harald Brattbakk.
Whilst on Harald, did you notice at the weekend he became top goal scorer in Norway's football history, with 160 goals.
and they say our leagues crap.
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To be fair Brattbakk scored into us in Europe as well :P
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I can't believe that the board would have let him go if they do not have or will not have cover. They may not be everyones cup of tea but surely they would not have been as stupid. I agree however with the comments about replacing someone as good as or better than Jackie for under £10,000 a week (to have a better deal we would need someone on whos cost to buy and wages for the season were a total of under £600k). To me this is unlikely. But surely we have someone as a replacement.
I would also agree that if Jackie's ambitions lie with Wolves we need players with higher ambitions and more passion.
Brattback although a flop at Celtic is a good player, it is fact of life that not all players are suited to the Scottish game. Look at Juninho (although I think that was more down to him never being played in his proper position).
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I can't believe some of the stuff I'm reading on here today. Some of it's bordering on hysteria.
Negative Anon, what is you want to "hear" exactly. Do you want an hourly phone call from the manager.
Or better still, why doesn't he hold a daily news conference: "Hello everyone. Today we're looking to sign XYZ. We've put £3m on the table but are prepared to go to 5. Don't tell the players's club or agent.
Would THAT please you Negative Anon????
Let's rewind 6 months to the Hartson negotiations. There were people on here, almost daily, whining about how it was taking so long and how it was evidence that the Board "lacked ambition".
What's happening now?? The majority want him sold and are questioning why he was given a new deal in the first place.
Or take the past few weeks as a more rent example. There has been an almost universal call for a mass clearout. Now that it's happening some of you don't like it.
I'm sick hearing about how we should "give youth a chance". I personally don't think it's the answer, but I know one thing: to give the young guys a chance you need to move on your over 30 journeymen.
Some of you are NEVER happy. Any chance to whinge, whine, moan, criticise and generally run the club down is grabbed with gusto.
Can you not shut up for a couple of weeks and see what happens.
Absoltely raging.
GM
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Two ways of looking at the Jackie departure.
One - Strachan genuinely wants to raise the standard at CP. Let's face it, Jackie was never a first choice in ANY position in the team during MONs time except left back and that was because we didn't have one. If WGS has a new LB and cover for RB in the pipeline, then I have no problem with a 31 yo being allowed to go.
Two - the board and WGS have dropped the ball here, big time. They have assumed that Jackie wouldn't be hard to deal with and would never want to leave Celtic.
Conclusion, let's wait and see who's coming in - I'm hoping that this is all part of the carefully planned change at the club, but am a little fearful that the club have cocked up.
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GM
I think what people are most upset with is the Celtic do or seem to do business. Negotiations take forever and seem to be put on the backburner which puts the club at risk of losing players for nothing (Liam Miller). Because of the closed doors attitude to the media fans never know if the club are even going to bring players in never mind what calibre we are looking at. Obviously details of negotiations should not be disclosed but it wouldn't hurt to say "we are in the process of discussing contracts with a number or players" or "we are currently making an offer on a player" no names need be mentioned. Even an illusion of activity would be better than the deafining silence that we get year in year out from CP. Another reason for the fans unrest is that a barrel-load of players have left and not one has came in. Fair enough, an overhaul may have been called for but that includes players coming in not just out.
IMO a couple of big players will be announced certainly by 1st July for the launch of the new home kit.
Here's hoping...
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Stevie58 said:
"If WGS has a new LB and cover for RB in the pipeline, then I have no problem with a 31 yo being allowed to go."
Absolutely spot on Stevie. You've made me reconsider how we should regard today's (apparent) main development...
Perhaps it is in fact a good omen. A sign of positive events to come and not another dollop of bad news.
We have to assume that GS is not stupid, and that he feels he has adequate cover already in-house, or perhaps already signed up, to replace each and every player that the club has let go in the last couple of weeks. If this is the case, then this would indeed indicate that we have a new left back already sorted, which is something that so many fans have been screaming out for over the last season and more.
And as GM says we could all just wait a couple of weeks and see what transpires. (But wouldn't that be boring?!)
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Calm down, calm down, as those comical Scousers would say. Let's wait a week or two before launching into full-scale panic. All I've seen so far is a sweeping away of the dead wood, Jackie Mac excepted. He was always one of my favourite players, a true gent, but not really a captain - he seemed to quiet and decent for that. The only guy out of the current squad who gets on other people's backs is wee Lenny. The armband is his as long as he stays in the first team.
Two points here: first, Jackie got a good offer from Wolves which will probably earn him an extra million over the two years. Would YOU turn that down? Personally, I'd detected signs of him slowing down over the past year or so. Agathe will be our first-choice right back and we'll be buying a left back, so how much SHOULD we pay a squad player?
Secondly, Lennon's critics should do themselves the favour of concentrating on the wee man's movement for 90 minutes. He never stops. His positional play is superb and he rarely gives the ball away. He does for us what Makalele does for Chelsea - and that guy is idolised by Mourinho.
Let's just give wee Gordon a week or so to get his men in. Then we can panic... or not. My own view is that there is plenty left in our budget for quite a few new faces, including a couple of really big names.
Lastly, to one other blogger who was conned into changing his sign-on by the linguistics police, did you see the motto on the wall of Barca's stadium: "Mes que un club". It's Catalan for "More than a club."
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according to the evening times we are in for Dellas?
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Hey c'mon I said that first!
"I can't believe that the board would have let him go if they do not have or will not have cover."
:P
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Martybhoy
Is that the New london City CSC (as in New Scotland yard) or just London City CSC....Let me know and I will update the www.sixtee7.com t-shirt for you
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Afternoon all,
Been away sorting out my own business lately but I come back to see a club captain leaving after his new manager publicly called him a necessity. No positive spin on this one.
Neil Lennon takes a 33% pay cut but remains one of the 5 highest paid players at the club.
The question here is value for money - paying a 34 year old 20 grand to turn it on in old firm games is not a great deal. Letting a younger, more mobile player leave for nothing is not a good deal.
I am hearing that the club are heading back to the system of players gradings - anyone remember that from a few year ago? A, B, C or D. The problem here is that the management and the support have a different view as to who should be in the top band and who should not.
Celtic have a problem in that the gap between players wages will be very large for the time being - larger still if bellamy signs (news on this later). The current signing targets can be classed as C and below in wages terms but B and above in quality. This pleases Negative Anon's friends in higher places.
McStay
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i'd just like to ask whats the hooha about jackie being offered a one year contract and him not accepting it - his choice remember
granted he's been a loyal servant over the last 10 yrs but this nonsense about it being a disgrace the ways he's been treated is bull.
why no mention of the disgraceful way that WE the fans were treated over the past season. having to put up with the tosh that was put in front us, 5pts clear with 4 games to yet still cant hold out for the league. oh and incase anyone forgot Mr McNamara was a main feature of the crap defence that is rightly being dismantled
is he going to that big a loss really? i dont think so
can we get better? simple answer is yes
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Thanks Hoots McGraw for your kind comments. Thanks also for the insight into Jackie’s situation.
Agree on Petrov Morocco Mole.
Malone19, as far as I am aware deals have been done. Patience everyone, patience.
Thanks Negative Anon :-) I wonder what might have talked ‘him’ into taking cold feet?
San Miguel, it was not me that offered Lennon a new contract. Personally I hope we sign players who will push Lennon and Hartson off the team sheet. Lets wait and see, it is still the 14th June. Again Patience everyone.
With the greatest respect Alabama Celt, the board have run the payroll too high in recent seasons which has prohibited transfer funds. Now they need to bring the payroll down. This is quite different to the approach in recent seasons and is exactly the approach they need to take.
Deep breath GM, go make a cup of tea.
Malone19, what everyone here is forgetting is how negotiations actually happen when done well:
Negotiating is a game where people will often take you to the bring and where you need to do it back every now and then.
There will be some exceptions; Bellamy for example. He is offered top price early on, because he is difficult to replace. For those easy to replace, play it hard, you will lose some, and might even try to win them back when you are too late, but that comes with the territory.
The alternative negotiating strategy will have you paying over the odds for everyone.
I need to get into the players agent business, so many suckers out there.
Interesting comment Great No 8.
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Sad to see Jackie going. A great start to his Celtic career, then a period in the wilderness, but for the past 4 years he's been an excellent servant to the club.
His departure is made all the more sour by reports that he was one of the lowest paid player on the Celtc staff. There are far too few players like him at PH and his departure will be a loss we could have done without.
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This may well end up in you freinds rumour mill at the weekend but I thought I would pass it on ahead of time.
Club: No more long contracts to players over 30. That's club policy.
Agent with large tie knot: But what about the extensions offered to Sutton, Hartson and Thompson.
Club: They are first team players and have a residual value in the transfer market.
Agent with large tie knot: So my client isn't a first teamer anymore.
Club: We didn't say that. But we had no enquiries for his availability in the last two years.
Agent: So you would let him go for nothing?
Club: Our offer represents his value to the club and his value in the current market place.
McStay
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Wouldn't like to see Didier keeping RB position - great at tracking back etc but hopeless at keeping an eye on the bloke at the back post when the ball comes in from the other wing. IMO best for a RHS 3-5-2 player.
Agree with recent comments that its a little early to jump out the window - be a little nervous by all means because of the way its been in the past - cannot believe WGS came to the club without a clear idea on how to do the job - I for one am happy to let him get on with it and am delighted that I am not the Celtic manager.
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Ardoch
Wish we'd had a Harald Brattbakk at Fir Park to do what he did against St. Johnstone.
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I appreciate the complexity and time involved in some negotiations. My point is how the Rankers can do deals within the first few weeks of the window opening and Celtic cannot. Also, for the manager (MON) to say we will wait till christmas to discuss the contract with a player is absurd. IMO the ambiguity of your role within the club could make your performances suffer. OK - occassionally it may make a player work harder for his contract but as we see from players such as Juninho this negative critisism doesn't push all players to work harder.
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Rumoid,
It's being run by a couple of Glaswegian coppers who are in the City of London Police - Joe Farrell and Steve Begley. As - always handy to know a couple of friendly policemen ;-). I'm not sure if this is the same one you are talking about, but I will find out.
Have you got the csc in Wimbledon / Tooting (Jack Beards Bar)???
Martybhoy
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Let`s clear this up just now. Jackie was not "POORLY PAID" as some of you have put it. He got two very good contract`s off MON and to the person who stated that he gve his testimonial proceeds to charity that wasn`t the case, he gave half away in total, and probably pocketed around £400,000 for himself tax free. Which BTW i`m not criticising him for just stating fact`s.
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jack d
Agree with your views on Jackie in that he should never have been made Captain. I mentioned in a previous thread that the Roy Aitken captaincy would never have allowed the second half retreat at Motherwell to occur. Jackie did not seem to have the ability to rally the troops somehow.
As for his football ability his worth was in his ability to read a game and in his versatility. On the downside he was becoming a little on the slow side and his passing was generally poor.
A good servant he was but past his best.Sorry to put the boot in too now that he is leaving but have a look at his role in the Uefa cup final winning goal. I think he was more culpable than anyone.
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Seems like we're heading for the broken crest even earlier this year.
Hoots McGraw reckons rankers have signed a 'good Bosman' How many times have you seen him play? If he is good how long will he be at the MIM works team?
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Seems like we're heading for the broken crest even earlier this year.
Hoots McGraw reckons rankers have signed a 'good Bosman' How many times have you seen him play? If he is good how long will he be at the MIM works team?
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Why are Celtic talking about paying off Hedman and Laursen to release them from contract? If Leicester want Laursen why not make them buy him? And surely someone would give us a couple of quid for Magnus?
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I can't believe some of the posts on here regarding Jackie Mac...
eg. 1.27pm Ardoch
"I can't believe Jackie's gone, he was the first name on my team sheet for the last 10 years."
Ardoch - are you talking "first" here ahead of Larsson, or Lubo, or Sutton, or Petrov, or Lennon, or Lambert ? The only way Jackie would be first ahead of any of those is cos his squad number is 4, and the others are all higher.
eg. 1.08pm Awe naw Annoni...
Lubo was already 33 when he arrived at Celtic, Jackie Mac is 31.
Awe Naw Annoni - Lubo is without doubt the most skilful player I have ever had the pleasure to witness playing at Parkhead. A guy who could take corners equally well from both sides of the park, whose delivery from free-kicks was superb, and who sent numerous defenders out to the shops for a paper and fags with his drag-backs. He could even trap the ball with his arse!
Lubo could be 43 and he'd still offer Celtic more than Jackie ever could.
For anyone who was at Fir Park on Sunday 22nd May, you will already know who the REAL captain of Celtic "ON" the park is, and who should be made captain for the next 5 years... step forward Stan Petrov... the only guy who even seemed motivated or able to instil any urgency on that day.
As the supposed "CAPTAIN", Jackie Mac done nothing that day to inspire the team, or the supporters, or even show any form of passion about the performance.
If a Roy Aitken-type captain had been on the pitch, we would be SPL Champions 2005 - that's the kind of inspiration I want to see from our captain. Jackie Mac falls a long way short of that.
I really DO wish Jackie all the best in his new career in "The Championship" with the perennial under-achievers of Wolverhampton,
but from some of the posted comments here you would think we were losing another Larsson, get real lads !!!
fleagle1888
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Afternoon all,
I'm very saddened to Jackie Mac go and wish him and his family all the best.
But to be honest there is no room for sentiment. If Jackie can get better at a first division club fair enough, Celtic have bigger ambitions therefore he is more valuable to them than us as a squad player.
On a lighter note, Jimios pointed out that yesterday the official site had jackie on it now its Lennon but the heading was "Dont Be Kept In The Dark" Irony at its finest!!!
I hope Lennon is made Club Captain (similar to Lambert's role over the last 2 seasons) and Stan Petrov made Team Captain.(jackie's role)
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Jeromek67
I couldn`t agree more with your two point`s, surely his role as captain should have been to push the team up the park against motherwell as we sat far too deep, also we got out of jail at tyncastle and against TFOD while trying to protect a lead. I`ve also had many an argument with my friend`s over his role in the losing goal in Seville. IMO he was the biggest culprit.
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Martybhoy
I have the South Wimbledon CSC thanks....Have you ever ventured up north to Wood Green (cant remember the name of the pub but its absolutely rocking)....
I will put the London City CSC down for the moment as we are off to the printers in the morning (hi ho hi ho)...let me know if the "new" is to be added asap if you can please..
On the Jackie front;
Can everyone do me a favour and stop mentioning the Motherwell game....
On the offisial web site- todays top story is "a weekend round up....." Maybe they can outsource their web team as well as the ticketing system....A job for Paul I would think.....
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Here's the updated version of the rumour transfer list for those who haven't seen it already.
http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=10965
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No "New" Required rumoid! I've been to the one in North London, and yes it is bouncing! The is also a Hoops bar in London now!!!
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Celticbhoy, you don't think that our fans are that daft they would go out and buy a new umbro strip witha name on it do you?
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Thanks Martybhoy
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FAO London Tims :
O'Rafferty's pub is the home of the Wood Green CSC.
New Inn, Brentford is the home of the West London CSC
fleagle1888
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good luck jackie
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So that's Jackie away then. A good servant to the club, but time marches on.
One question though. With all these players leaving the club, this is good for reducing the wage bill. However, are we actually going to sell any of them, or are they all just going to walk?
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Fleagle, indeed you are correct. Tommy Flinns is the home of Sheperds bush Emerald. More "Tims" down here than you can hit with a tennis racket!!!
Hail Hail
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Jackie was so versatile because he doesn’t really have his own position at Celtic. He was moved from pillar to post when someone was out injured.
GM @ 2.11pm – Agree with you – All the comments on here today are like the comments we’ve heard from the monkeys over the years.
Let WGS, The Board and MON get on with their work and let’s see what happens.
Petrov to be Captain - Can’t wait for the season to start by the way.
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@Ginger Prince
Nice to see someone who knows a good player and can spot weak comparisons.
For everyone who thinks Jackie is replaceable, what in the 5 positions he played for Celtic, at the money he was on, and the standard he played, I think not unless he has a cheaper clone of himself to offer.
Good luck Jackie wherever you play your football, I voted for you as player of the year on the official site because no one else came close. I thought he was easily our best player this season, even playing out of position (what is his position?).
Retaining Lennon at 70% of his wages double what Jackie was on this is a good deal? The logic on this subject is very skewed a player on a lower wage like Jackie he has to take the same type of cut as Lennon who will still be on double Jackie’s wages after his cut?
Paul67 expected a 50% cut taking him down to Jackie’s present earnings, this would have been a good deal but 70% is too much. If we wish to lower our wage bill then why not use common sense. Lennon is replaceable by much cheaper products and I am a big Lennon fan. At 50% of his wages at this stage of his career it would be both a sensible piece of business and a good acquisition for Celtic. At 70% it is poor business and inconsistent with the Jackie offer.
I definitely wish to see wages drop drastically, but only if it makes sense. If we can not replace a player with someone of equivalent stature at a cheaper price we have to stay with who we have got: for example the Thompson and Sutton deals (Thompson I never understood). I fully agree that the Lambert deal was a disgrace, but our board approved it, just like they approved the purchase of Shite in the Barnes era.
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Fleagle/Martybhoy...
I have London North West CSC but no Wood Green CSC...is this one in the same?
Sorry for disturbing the negativity guys....
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• Martybhoy you said …
“Celticbhoy, you don't think that our fans are that daft they would go out and buy a new umbro strip with a name on it do you?” No not in a million years, what I was meaning was Nike would want Celtic to display new players in the new Nike top esp. the quality signings. As we are under contract to Umbro until the 1st July this could not happen It was my attempt at a conspiracy.
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Fleagle,
I agree with your comments about the relative comparison in ability between Lubo and Jackie Mac except I was talking about age.
If we are letting a player of his ability and background go for nothing then either we already have a utility player or even two of CL quality already lined up. Knowing Celtic as well as I do I quite simply DO NOT BELIEVE IT. If this was the case GS would not have made his initial statement and Jackie Mac would not have hung about waiting for yet another shabby Celtic approach. I mean they shouldn´t have offered a second year (or is this just Big hearted Celtic - I dont think) after he refused the first if they were to be taken seriously. If of course that´s true!
Im sorry Bhoys but this is Celtic we are talking about here. I have my suspicions that GS remit is to take the finest youths in Scotland and make them players (Something MON wasn´t even close too btw) that are capable of winning the SPL and qaulifying for the CL. We will idle along this way running at a slight profit no European forays after xmas, the occasional UEFA cup run and that will be it until somehow we can manouvere a way into a more lucrative situation.
Be prepared for one big signing (NOT CRAIG BELLAMY) too expensive
and 2-3 Journey men pros. I mean out of the 10m pound budget (IF THERE IS ONE OF COURSE) Lenny has just reduced that to 9m.
We are going to see a lot more of the likes of Marshall (Kennedy hopefully), Mc Geadie, Beattie, Maloney, Mac Manus, Mc Glinchey etc.
Keep the faith by all means but read between the lines and please dont forget the teachings of lessons passed.
Line up for our first competitive game anyone?
Marshall
Agathe
Sutton
Varga
Laursen
Petrov
Lennon
Pearson
Mc Geadie
Hartson
Maloney
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Big issue in all of this is not that time marches on, it is that the club has acted in such a bullying manner to a good servant who happens to be the captain of the club. Possibly just a title but it still must mean something?
This stick will be used to beat us by our opponents for a long time to come.
I have no issue with Jackie Mac being shown the door on account of new personnel being drafted in. The issue is don't do it after the manager and the former manager both identified him as someone they wanted to keep.
Also don't play hardball only to fold once the bluff has been called. Consequently worst of all possible worlds, we look cheap shifty and lacking bottle.
If he had a price and we are working to a budget why was this suddenly upped once he was walking out the door?
Anybody on the site work for ACAS, you could do few homers teaching our board how to negotiate without either losing their shirt or the club's self respect.
The issue has moved away from the people involved to the way we do business. Who needs the "Laptop Loyal" when we manage to do this to ourselves.
We just never seem to learn, the faces change but the mistakes keep on coming.
The hurdle WGS will have to climb once the new faces start appearing just got a lot higher.
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Does resigning players come out of the salary budget or the transfer budget?
BTW lets hope that is not the team next season or we could be struggling for 2nd place. Who knows Hearts may well just upset the old firm two horse race!
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Yes fleagle1888, Jackie was the first name on my team sheet. Not because he was better than anyone you named, but because he was my favourite player, the guy i could identify with, the guy playing with Celtic in his heart. Even if he was a hibee!
My money is on him being homesick, and at Hibs within 2 seasons, but i wish him all the best.
Stan Petrov has to be captain now, but this team captain, and club captain, being different players, is nonsense. Anyway, what does it matter who is captain? Players will either have it in their nature to shout and inspire or not, an armband won't make a blind bit of difference. If Petrov becomes captain, he will be in the Paul McStay mould, a guy who leads by example, not by shouting.
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In Martin O'Neill's first season we
were looking to turn round a 21 point deficit.
Martin made his first signing Chris Sutton.
Note the date
10th July 2000.
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Terry,
the reason why we had to turn over a 21 point deficit is because we had just given a new manager carte blanche to signing new players and trying the revolutionary 2-2-2-2 system with Stan at left back.
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Sorry to see Jackie go - I thought he was one of our more stable performers in recent seasons. He deserved a two year deal. Having said that, we need a shake up in the full-back positions and hopefully GS will find someone better.
Encouraged by the lack of news on the Bellamy front. My take on this is they are negotiating terms and are not far from agreement.
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Sorry to see Jackie go - I thought he was one of our more stable performers in recent seasons. He deserved a two year deal. Having said that, we need a shake up in the full-back positions and hopefully GS will find someone better.
Encouraged by the lack of news on the Bellamy front. My take on this is they are negotiating terms and are not far from agreement.
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Jackie McNamara has just captained Celtic to the biggest debacle of a season in the history of the club. Not content with throwing away a seven point lead in October, the team unforgivably threw away a five point lead with only four games remaining.
As a support we almost went into raptures over the leaving of Lambert, Douglas, Sylla and Vallgaren. We may even rejoice if Bobo, BBJ Thompson and Vargawere to join them as ex-Celts. So tell me what is so special about our captain? He is by general opinion earning £10,000 per week, well that equates to half a million pounds per year, plus bonuses. As far a I am concerned he is a very wealthy young man, and if he had stayed another ten years , he would still have been an honest pro., never ever by any stretch of the imagination, a Celtic GREAT.
Henrik Larsson told everybody that he would leave at the end of his contract which he did, so Jackie Mac is the only Celtic player ever to pocket a million pounds from a testimonial and the refuse to sign a new contract and then walk out on the club
If any of Jackie,s teamates feel the same, then I have a spare five bob I can loan them for their taxi fare.
Good luck to Jackie in his new club,but certainly no tears or regrets over his departure. THE club has never had an inspirational captain since Roy Aitken and that was never more obvious than the last day of last season.
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Martin42,
Surely ICT was the biggest debacle!
Anyway its sore I know and we all suffered and some still suffering but if Sourness hadn´t had his fall out it we wouldn´t have even been there. The major issue here is how we do buisness and we do buisness poorly. Very poorly
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Martin42,I am gutted that Jackie has gone.As far as I know,the proceeds of his testemonial went to a cancer charity.
Why was one of our most consistent, albeit not flamboyant, players not offered a decent contract before the likes of Bobo,BBJ and Tommo whose performances can be absolutely dire at times.
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martin42
well put, i'm in full agreement
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There seems to be great value being placed on the qualities of utility players. To me a utility player is a guy who is not good enough in one position to make it his own, so why bother. You could argue that they provide cover but they dont apply presssure to any individual player to improve, as they are not directly linked to that position.
It is an advantage, in an emergency, if a player is versatile but he still must have a specific role. If we are being honest we would like a better player in all the positions that jackie has covered, that makes him a squad utility player and as such surplus.
Disclaimer: the above assumes signings will be made.
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was very pleased with the way things were going, dead wood out, no news for the red tops etc but Jackie mac is a realy blow. I can't believe he's taking some stick like 'thanks but was time to go'.
Simple case here is he was completely taken for granted as he not only privately but very publicly stated there was no other team for him.
I know the family and they'll be a lot of hurt there.
IMO Jackie mac is a modern day celtic hero and did not deserve that. Why should he have accepted one year when he watches players like hartson/tommo/bobo secure deals which dwarf his in renumeration and length when he has been one of our most consistent, hard working and professional players for the last two years without even rewinding back to the likes of Wim's year.
I am gobsmaked, gutted and angry. I have agreed with every other player moved on this year but not Jackie mac. As always, life doesn't reward the good guys.
All the very best Jackie, I and the majority of the celtic support wish you all the very best.
CW
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To Awe Naw No Anoni Oan Anaw Noo
You are right, ICT was the biggest debacle in any single game, I was referring to the whole season as a debacle.
John H, do you or anybody else know that he was not offered a contract that he deserved? Maybe he was.
Someone said we do business poorly, well I do not see how anyone can describe this as poorly and lay the blame totally at the door of the boardroom.
Larsson 7 thanks for your comments.
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Well said CW.
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I totally despair.
If Hoots Mc Graw’s and Great 8’s scenario is correct then once again the only people who can be held responsible for this piece of crass mis-management are the board. The same board who allowed a similar situation to develop with Liam Miller Bobo Balde and John Hartson – the same who sanctioned the purchase of Rafael you know who.
Jackie Mc may well not be the best player on earth but I go along with GS that his “knowledge “ of what playing for Celtic was about and his versatility should not have been lost at this time. If we are set on reducing squad numbers and the wage bill which I heartily support then it would have made good sense to retain Jackie Mc.
I worry that this is the same board that sanctioned the complete waste of scarce resources via the loan signing of Juhnino and the Paul Lambert sabattical.
I worry that this is a board who will have been aware of the prospect of MON’s departure for some long time but by GS’s own admission approached him only 2 weeks before MON resigned.
I worry that this is a board that do not seem to have a policy to ensure that our assets are not allowed to dwindle to the point where there is no residual value.
I worry that this is a board that resides over PR disaster after PR disaster yet have the temerity to take to task those who criticise them albeit in a manner I would not support but understand the frustration that brought them to it. The board clearly don’t or they would not have allowed DD’s public broadside.
I worry that this is a board who do not listen and most certainly seem not to be learning.
Paul excuses this latest aberration on the basis of good negotiating tactics and we are all to be patient with promises of “deals already done” Perhaps we’d all have a little more faith in the plan if we could see some signs that such a thing exists in the Celtic Park boardroom. On past performance why would we have any faith that we will be “excited” by our new signings. Weren’t we all patient last summer and what were we rewarded with?
Why oh why can Rangers be so much better at it than we are?
All said in the sincere hope that I’ll be made to eat humble pie.
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Sure thing Awe No… 3.45pm, that will be the team.
You start the papers job for them, why not.
Malone19 3.50, key point. Transfers and wages are all one budget. They are looked at over the period the club is committed to a contract (amortisation again).
Celticbhoy, signings have nothing to do with Nike.
Again on the signing of players:
Celtic need to reduce the wage bill, especially if they are planning big moves in.
Jackie and Neil were offered contracts, Jackie a repeat of last season, Neil a reduction. Celtic wanted both to stay, look like keeping Neil and losing Jackie.
Some you win some you lose. Hard ball is the name of the game, anything else and we are robbing our own future.
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Don't you find it odd that in Strachan's first press conference he clearly states that it is essential to keep Jackie and also has mate comments about how age is irrelevent then very soon after we lose Jackie?
Jackie has made tons of statements claiming he wants to stay at the club. So it is odd that he was only given a one year contract, something that you would rarely find another player accept. We have seen Hartson refuse to sign a contract recently because it was too short. I don't think the reason why he declined the offer was because of wages it was more to do with the legnth of contract.
He could have been offered at least a two year contract, he keeps himself in top shape and is probally our most consistant defender so there isn't a massive risk. Especially someone like Hartson was given a longer contract who would probally be crippled with his back in 2 years time.
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Are we on the wind up here? Jackie is a journeyman pro. For all those of you saying can we get just as good a player for £10K a week, I'm pretty sure the answer is YES!
I'm just gutted that the slowest player in the world has agreed a contract extension shich still makes him a fortune. He should have been for the off as well.
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Oh and for all those who say 'they know what the club is about' - it doesn't make them better players.
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Cdmcc, the benfit of "knowing what it means to play for Celtic" will be for the new players coming in. I think WGS wanted to have these two guys to show the new players what it means to pull on the Hoops. A Scot and an Irish, two countries that have a better idea than any other about what it means to represent Celtic.
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With Jackie going or gone, does that not pave the way for Bellamy to extend his stay either on loan or by signing?
Did Jackie and Bellamy not have a bust up in Ireland?
It's the only positive I can take from losing Jackie, as I thought he was worth a contract extension.
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All this talk of releasing players to free up the wage bill is all well and good, but our squad is looking seriously low in numbers, and 'IF' we sign 'big' players, then we won't be signing more than 3 or 4 folk in total, 'big' and not so big.
Are the board planning on gambling on having a squad short in numbers but better in quality, and take their chances with injuries?
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Think about the Jackie debate this way. He's now a 31 year old Wolves player. If we signed such a player from Wolves on a 2 year contract at 10K a week, would you be happy ?
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Am I the only one who thinks that, as usual, we are being way too sentimental about Jackie. What if Jackie knew he was going all along and simply played the "I really want to stay at Celtic" card until his testimonial money was safely in the bank. It's cynical, but it's how these guys behave and bet your bottom dollar it's how he behaved. DON'T go to testimonials!
Footballer's, in general, are the greediest, most self centred individuals you are ever likely to meet, led by the King of them all Larsson.
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AlabamaCelt disagree completely. The club will pay extortionate amounts of money to a player who isn't up to the standard required just because they can give a lesson to new players coming in. A passion for the club does not make them better players! And if a new player who comes into Celtic Park isn't motivated enough by a new challenge then we've picked the wrong player. Time moves on and when players aren't up to the specified standard of European football (Lennon) they should be moved out. Clubs around the world don't hesitate. Why do we?
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well put FrankieBhoy.
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cdmcc - jackie mac a journeyman pro? Eh? are you for real m8?
10 years 100% service in the hoops and he's a journeyman. Unbelievable.
Paul, re hardball being the only game in town. How about the main game but room for a touch of sentimentally and loyalty.
We rightly hammer modern badge-kissers for taking the cash, plaudits when things go well then jumping ship when a better offer comes along. Then we treat JM in such a way.
I am the only one who thinks that our loyalty to the likes of Henke and Jackie Mac is one of the main reasons the likes of Bellamy are attracted to what celtic is all about.
Some shameful comments today.
CW
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Inside Write -
bust up is tabloid rubbish, they played a few rounds of golf together!
CW
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CelticWully
Do you honestly think Bellamy gives a monkeys what Larsson and MacNamara say in their sound bites? 10% of £6M and £40K a week is the only sound bite he will listen to. As for "Henke" this is the guy who was nobody before he came to Celtic, we made him a multi millionaire, he then wanted another £1M from us before he left (not a bean of which he gave to charity), he then came back 10 weeks later and stuffed it right to us in the champion's league!
Don't believe their nonsense, there's one born every minute and these guys thrive on it.
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Well golf can be a intense game, imagine wee Beller's competitive nature equiped with a golf club. Not worth thinking about! :P
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Fair point Cdmcc but I feel that a passion for the club will result in a player giving that bit (or 5% as someone mentioned before) extra when its needed. Its not lessons as such but passing on the sense of pride. I felt Jakcie was one of the best player this season and I do feel that he was worth £10k a week (by footballers standards) for a couple of years. We'll agree to disagree my friend.
Maybe I got it wrong, but it would be out of character for Jackie to play the club along. Fact is, he gave half of that testimonial money to charity. That doesn't happen everyday.
Anyway, I'm still optimistic about the coming season. Good luck Jackie and thanks for the last ten years.
Btw, Bhoydell, lay off the juice, doin you no favours man.
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celticwully i stand by my comments. Jackie is a journeyman pro, a guy who will do 'alright' for you. We need better than that I'm afraid. You say he gave 100%. I would hope so, it is his job. He was offered a contract by two clubs and chose one. End of story, cheers for the 100% and good luck. In my opinion only Sutton and Petrov are must keeps at the club right now, everyone else is fair game and should be working their arse off to improve their qualities. When offering a new contract - a job - to anyone the main question is - what is their worth to the club.
If he was as good a player as everyone seems to think he would be off to somewhere slightly better than Wolverhampton. The last two seasons he has performed well and performed consistently, although I think anyone on this board would look pretty good playing next to the disaster that is Balde.
If we are talking about moving sticks to England, TV rights, tying ourselves in with multinational companies whose working practices can be open to moral questioning, advertising to make more money blah blah, does sentimentality for the fans come into it then or is that only for well paid players who give 100%. The fans give 100% mate and pay a fortune for the privelige.
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Derbyshirebhoy
Thanks for reminding me about the original post.
Poker face? - I hope PL does his gambling on the internet?
Strong line in negotiations? - Aye right! Either a story is being spun or there were shouts of "alright then £15K per week over two years" as the door swung gently on its hinges.
Just how much will this episode cost the club? We are now a busted flush with agents and it will take a lot of work to get things back on an even keel.
Paul67
You are having a laugh, defending the indefensible, see above, only to fall back on the voodoo accounting of amortisation to try and justify this weeks antics.
If WGS thought Jackie Mac to be an integral part of his team, where does that leave him now? Either he gets overuled, defers to the money men or he only talks a good game. Any of these outcomes leaves the club and the manager much weaker as a result. The best we can hope for is that it never happens again / PL gets locked in a cupboard until September.
We are now one year older, one player down, our reputation has been shredded and we are under a cloud before a blow has been struck.
Today's ET is only the start. The usual suspects will still be slabbering into their laptops come Sunday.
Was it really worth £15K per week?
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Bhoydell - I'm sensing much hostility and anger from you today - go have a lie down, better still walk to the nearest wall kick it come back to the pc and get behind your team mate, we need you!
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madmitch i don't particularly believe our reputation is shredded.
a player has left the club. big deal. personally i think agents have been ripping it right out of us for years. my god balde doesn't even have one and look what he got out of us. the players at CP should be paid according to their ability. i'm hopeful this is the road we're going down.
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not resigning jackie is only a good idea if we replace him with someone better.
the significant factor here is that jackie colud not get a premiership club. not even one of the minor premiership clubs. if he is not good enough for the premiership he should not be good enough for us.
good luck to jackie at his new team.
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Martybhoy,
It really frustrates me that Celtic supporters fall for all this rubbish about "Celtic men" and "walk over brocken glass to get here". These guys are doing a job and leverage the supporter's feelings when they need to, they don't care, trust me I know, they don't care.
I am happy to accept that they will give 100% when playing etc but I refuse to be conned by their sound bites or pay for testimonials to line already very rich mens pockets.
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"the players at CP should be paid according to their ability. i'm hopeful this is the road we're going down."
That's the point surely Jackie Mac has enough ability to get what is rumoured to be 10/15K over 2 years which is nothing. The price of a squad player and probally the price of a reserve team player in the Premiership.
Jackie is surely capaple of still playing in our first team or at least as a squad player. We can't afford to ditch our whole team. At this rate we will be needing about 10 players this summer so they better hurry up and make signings.
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Mcnamara might not have been the most paid at CP but he did get a good payoff with his testimonial, a nice way to say thanks to the support,collect his pay and then take the exit door
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The difference is we never sell players, we let them run their contracts down and then sod off!
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another PR disaster from our wonderful club.
WGS says he wants Jackie to stay and what happens he leaves for a no mark never will be any sort of mark championship club.
Jackie wee man a championship club, who won't get near the EPL, if u think that is a good career move good luck.
thanks for your effort wee man always gave a 100%
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It would be nice if we at least made a big sale. You would have thought we would have got it with Balde but for some crazy reason we give him these stupid clauses. We lose players such as Miller who we could have made money from. There has been others as well.
Boumsong made Rangers a bloody fortune this year, it's the reason they won the league in the end.
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Things are getting a touch extreme on here, I do agree that there is no place for sentiment when negotiating contracts.
Firstly I'm as big a fan of Jackie's there is, he's a model professional and wish him all the best.
Put simply, its a case of "How much is Jackie worth to Celtic NOW?" with all due respect past performances dont mean anything. He is worth no more to us this coming season than he was when he last signed (probably less when age is factored in) so why shouldn't he be offered the same? He just happened to get a better offer elsewhere and fair play to him, good luck.
As for Bhoydell, "we made larsson who is now and he scored against us!" Its his job and he did it well get over it! To come off with tripe like that makes no sense, stick to the Daily Ranger Hotline mate!
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when MON said it will be exiting summer for us, did he mean when all the team leaves? :-)
have we not learnt anything over the last 5-10 years, if we are to bring in 5-7 new players why can't we do it over the entire close season? and keep us in the papers (positive)
are we going to bring them all in at the same time? (at 1 press con)
on the share issue i don't think it will be announced till after the transfer dead line.
I find it funny when the Dark Side sing a player they beat......... Barca, Real, Man U, and arsenal
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My first reaction to seeing the news of Jackie's departure was mild disappointment, followed by a flash annoyance when I read the details of what had happened - according to Jackie (and Hoots McGraw) admittedly, but not yet contradicted by anyone at the club. In particular, the last-minute offer of a two-year contract seemed to show the club up in a bad light. Here we had a loyal Celtic player apparently being sold short by the suits.
As is often the case, I felt rather differently after reflecting on the situation, and especially after reading Paul's article and his first couple of posts to this thread. Paul often comes up with a different slant on Celtic stories from other commentators, that's one of the many things that makes CQN compulsive reading. His point about Celtic using brinkmanship in contract negotiations to secure the best deal possible is a sensible one, and to a large extent explains what has happened.
Evidently WGS wanted Jackie on board, and evidently the contract negotiations didn't deliver him. To that extent, it's fair to criticise the people who handled the negotiations - presumably Peter Lawell? Having said that, whatever our transfer budget is this year, WGS has his work cut out to bring in the number of decent players in the squad will need. PL will have had it drummed into him that every pound saved on Jackie's negotiations is a pound which can be used to attract another player.
Jackie seems to have acted quite out of character; after making it clear for months he would wait till the last minute to see what Celtic had to offer, he has on an angry impulse committed himself elsewhere. There was no immediate pressure on him to commit to Wolves, he could easily have sat on his hands for a week or two yet and pushed for a two-year deal - which he would eventually have got. It was his choice and I don't begrudge him that freedom, but in any negotiation you can be wrong-footed by irrationality on the part of the other side. That's what seems to have happened here.
What is for certain is that the negative reaction to this news today on CQN is comically over the top. If losing out on Jackie's signature is the biggest mistake any Celtic employee makes all season, we're in for a good one. I'd have preferred to see Jackie on board to help with continuity. But while he is a good guy to have available, he is not a key member of the squad and hasn't been for more than 5 years now. He went to Wolves, not Chelsea. His loss has to be put into the context of our overall transfer dealings this summer, and we don't have that context yet.
By the first week of July, we should have a better idea of how things stand. Until then, anyone who tries to represent this as a major setback, or an illustration of the board's "contempt" and/or "disdain" for the fans - which have become two of the tiredest cliches on this website - is seeking to further their own agenda rather than provide useful insights into the club's situation.
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believe stachan is on his way to poland to view the players mentioned. glad to see he is hands on about these things.
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Going back to a recent thread on training facilities being developed
http://tinyurl.com/9pwnb
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cdmcc
Please note that on an earlier topic the handling of Danny McGrain's departure from CP was used as a stick to beat Davie Hay.
That is 18 years later by a Celtic fan, yes a Celtic fan. Therefore what price a series of cracked crests being rolled out by the Laptop Loyal to denigrate the club over the coming 10 weeks?
"Doesn't matter who you sign you still can't treat your players with any respect".
Please get used to it, it will become this summer's broken record.
We don't need it, it was something we brought on ourselves and the people responsible really need to look at the way they work.
I can accept the football side of it but not the way it was handled. We just look amateurish, one club golfers, unable to place any event in context.
Need to reduce costs? Lets start with the wee boys, any saving is worth it. Oh they're putting up a fight, quick roll-over and give them what they want.
Worst of all possible worlds.
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Hi all,
Haven't posted in a while as this site hasd taken off big time and it takes me all my time just to read through... so this time Ive read a few and skipped most so apologies if I'm just repeating but I wanted to add my thoughts...
Just read newsnow etc and this site and seen Jackie had signed for definate with wolves and have to say I'm gutted. Jackie was our most versatile player and while we are trying to reduce wage bill... here was aplayer who could play half a dozen positions for the price of one... Lennon or Jackie...? I'd have taken Jackie hand over fist before lennon... he has more in the tank, more versatile, and just as important a role model for our youngsters and other players strachan wants to bring in and be shown what it means to play for Celtic... another own goal by our club I'm afraid...
Hail Hail
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BaldEagle. A typical comment from someone who swallows tabloid rubbish. Make a derogatory comment and shout someone down. At no time did I say
"We made Larsson who is now and he scored against us!"
so don't put it in quotes, I didn't say that, these are the tricks the Daily Record uses, so we are all well used to it and it doesn't work (a bit like you).
The point I was making is that a large number of Celtic supporters get suckered into believing these guys love the club so much etc etc, they don't, they love the lifestyle it affords them, the adulation it gives them and the money............ especialy the money!
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From what Jackie Mac says it sounds as if Celtic offered an improved contract after he had given a verbal agreement to Glen hoddle. Did Jackie let Celtic know what Wolves were offering and give them the opportunity to match or better it? Or did he only let them know when it was too late? Given that Jackie had been making noises about not being too difficult to deal with, it could be that the board werecaught unawares and didn't get a real chance to keep him.
Alternatively, we made a mess of it again!
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Frankie
Nice thinking out side the box.
Disappointed to see him go but the question of ambition is one of Champions league or Champion ship.
If he performs to a consistent standard he'll be offered another year.
MON stated he signed yearly contracts with Forest as a player. Thats without the hugely inflated wages of today.
Now got to question J MAc's loyaly ambition and integrity.
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Why do we leave so many contract negotiations go right to the wire anyway? Jackie was a player that the club would have wanted to keep so why not have this sorted out months ago? The same goes with Lennon's contract.
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Point taken Bhoydell but there was absoloutely no need to bring Henrik Larsson's name into it because he had the opportunity to leave earlier than he did, and the Tribute game was a contract agreement to make up the wages he could have got elsewhere, so he stayed withe Celtic, i.e. Celtic knew he was worth more than they could afford and the extra money he 'pocketted' in the end was rightfully his (i had no problem whatsoever paying for the ticket).
So if your going to throw in the figures explain where they come from, instead of a lazy attempt at making a point.
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I see that accordn to sky sports the polish striker that WGS is on his way to see is goin to sign for Fenerbache tomorrow... could be a fairly short stop over...
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Chris,
How come Celtic may have made a mess of it?. Clearly Celtic (probably MON) valued him as a 1 year deal and whatever £K per week. He could get more at Wolves, so he left, that's how it goes.
As i said in a previous post, he knew for sometime he wanted to leave Celtic, he just stayed quiet until he got his testimonial out the way.
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"Now got to question J MAc's loyaly ambition and integrity."
Not really to be honest he is thinking about his career and family. He is not that old and for him to sign a 1 year contract would leave him in an awkward situation at the end of the year were he could be left with no club.
If he was expecting to stay at Celtic he probally wouldn't have his agent contacting all the English clubs alerting him to his availability so that would explain why he has ended up at a team like Wolves instead of a team of at least the standard of Portsmouth.
He has choose the first option that he got when he realised Celtic weren't going to offer him more than a year it seems. Also Wolves are going to be pushing for promotion next year so he will be thinking he will have an opportunity of playiing in the premiership next year.
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BTW Bhoydell, that wasn't a personal attack if you read my previous post, we're actually singing from the same hymn sheet, just thought it was a bit wrong to question Henrik's commitment to the club.
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Bhoydell -
So every player is solely financially driven. One big mould for all eh? You know Jackie well then? Soundbites from Jackie, enlighten me please.
I am a big bhoy now and well aware of the crap spouted by most players but such generalising is ridiculous. Jackie SERVED his club with honour, dignity and felt privileged to perform to the faithful.
Take it that you are one of the 'fans' that howls in derision at any mistake by our money grabbing, attention seeking, egotistical players. McGeady and yound Wallace in there too, get what they deserve eh?
For turning Henke into a millionaire (he turned down a several G14 clubs, including Man U to stay with us and could have made more elsewhere) we got in return:
1) the third highest tally of goals ever scored by a celtic player and no ones ever going to beat McGrory.
2) the most goals ever scored in European competition by a player with a BRITISH, not just Scottish club (beating Ian Rush)
3)a UEFA cup final. We would have been there without Henke's goal right enough...
4) millions more that his outlay through shirt sales, merchandising etc
5) the privilege to marvel at one of this generations great footballers, playing on our turf.
re the testimonial? Check your facts. The testimonial was built in to his final salary package as a PART of his final salary, a salary he could easily have picked up elsewhere.
Came back to stuff us - rather think thats his job. Was tommo in on the act too then?
Cdmcc - we are all entitled to our opinions, in this case we are miles apart m8.
CW
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Jackie and Lenny are two entirely different situations.
Jackie is our CAPTAIN, a utility player, 31 years old and has served the club for over 10 years.
He has just came off the back of yet another one year contract.
Lenny One Position is 33 years old and just came off his first 4 and a half year contract.
Both however are very commited players to Celtic, who knew this would probably be their last contract with Celtic.
Jackie didn't act irrationally. He looked after the best interests of himself and his family - guess we'd all be irrational then.
He also honored his word. There is a novelty for you in this day and age. Something that so many suits will try and use against you.
Celtic should have tied him down to a 4 year contract when he was 29, and that would have been the end od it. Something MON should have backed Jackie on.
Instead he was lured on with one year contracts (earning a lot less than many dead beats in the reserves), with the promise of a testamonial.
Celtic with their poker face were banking on Jackies love of Celtic.
Guess what? Your family comes first.
Thats were a poker face can get you - folding because your bluff has been called.
Now we lose one of our established 11, when we have CL qualifiers coming up soon.
Celtic should have gave their captain what he wanted to ensure stability, in such an unstable time. He never asked for a kings ransom.
Jackie as a player is replaceable, of course. His experience and commitment are another matter.
Sorry to see you go Jackie.
All the Best.
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Bhoydell
I think your being a bit cynical if you dont mind me saying...
I think some players do genuinely love the club....With the adulation than Henrik received from the tic- how could he not love playing for Celtic....
Yes he got paid a lot of money for what he did...(but if you compare him with say for instance Kluivert he was amazing value for money)...but being paid a wage does not exclude him from loving his workplace does it?
Can I ask how long it took for you to love the club and why a player cant do the same in the same amount of time...
On the Jackie front I thought it was a bit of a strannge negotiating tactic at the time of WGS to declare that he wants to keep Jackie...not the greatest bluff one could do...
Hopefully we will all recover when the signings are revealed....
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BaldEagle,
I am very negative about Larsson for a number of reason's, mostly to do with his behaviour towards the fans in 1-2-1 environments which was one of signing autographs etc under suferance, he was a moaning wee git ( a great player). As far as his benefit game being in his contract, you are right this time the board took advantage of the support. Larsson made a fortune from us, came back and stuffed us.
I don't understand what you are talking about when you say
"So if your going to throw in the figures explain where they come from, instead of a lazy attempt at making a point."
What figures did I throw in? your doing it again...........
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Bhoydell - you knew for a while that Jackie wanted to leave the club???????????????????
Come on, that's clutching mate. Totally, 100% untrue.
CW
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well to quote yourself "he then wanted another £1M from us before he left (not a bean of which he gave to charity)" he did indeed "want" (as you bluntly put it) the extra money. All of which he could have got elsewhere, but didn't. He was worth a lot more than that to Celtic and repaid it in full and he deserved every penny of it.
You were more than happy to quote the 1M figure you could have had the decency to state that it was part of his contract instead of making it sound like he robbed us and put us out of the Champions League in the space of 10 weeks!
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Paul, you say"Patience everyone" so you know deals have been done, so spill the beans please.
If you are wrong it's not a problem, so tell us who and when
good luck jackie
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CelticWullie
No I don't know Jackie, I do know a Celtic player though, he was always leaving, wanted the testimonial cheque though.
Yes, all Celtic players are financially motivated.
I do not howl at Celtic players, particularly young ones.
I have had a season ticket in the south stand since 1984 (when there were only 7000 punters willing to put their money up front) and have sat in the main stand ever since (apart from the Hampden season).
Larsson was a great player for Celtic, one of the best strikers I have seen in my time (Bobby Lennox was better) I just don't go with how much he loved Celtic. he loved the adulation and the money.................. particularly the money.
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I really don't see the point with these 1 year deals. Surely for most of the cases they are not good enough for the club or are not fit enough for the club. I do think Jackie was deserving of more than a year though.
All they do is leave you with these situations half way through the year:
*you need to go through all the re-negotiating once again.
*If they have a better season than expected they will get more money off you or you may lose them to someone else
*if you are going to let them go you need to then find replacements
*They cause lots of uncertainty in the club in the media and i guess in the dressing room as well. Which has to effect the club overall.
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BaldEagle,
i see what you mean about the figure now. Didn't explain it as i believe the figure of £1M is accepted as the amount and it was written into his contract. As I said the board took advantage.
IF Larsson loved Celtic that much, why did he need another £1m, wasn't his £45k a week or whatever it was enough for someone who oved Celtic?, he didn't love Celtic he loved the dough.
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see that celtic website's official statements out and note that jackie's referred to as 'long serving utility man' (does that mean janitor?) and that they offered a 'greatly impoved 2 year deal'.
Oh dear, oh dear - if anyone from CP is reading this, please, please with a a big cherry on top do something about your 'staff reporters' and 'PR' department. Disgrace to the club and an insult to the supporters. At the same time do something about the way you communicate with CSC's - shocking.
CW
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bhoydell - you do not have to prove your celtic credentials to me, that's not in question. I too remember scarves fashioned into hangman's nooses. However, your statements about Jackie always wanting to leave are simply not true, believe me.
Re Henke, yes, he was a self-centred moody player but in the word's of the Big Man, 'all top players are moody, we've just got to get them in the right mood...' and I believe that we at CP most certainly did and he loved us and the club for it.
I didn't say that all players aren't financially motivated, of course they are, I said 'solely' financially motivated which I do not concur with.
Hail Hail
CW
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So who is telling porkies. Jackie mac says he was offered a 1 year deal at celtic and a better financial package of 2 years at wolves. Celtic say he was offered a 2 vastly improved contract. Someones telling porkies?.
Again the forces of darkness steal a march on us in the singing stakes.
They the orcs have two confirmed signings we as per have a big fat 0.
Maybe the club will surprise us who knows but reading between the ines wgs is out to poland to run his eye over 3-4 players. Hardly good preperatation, are we being turned down by players, are we going down the rangers route of capping wages. The word bosman appears to have escaped our illustrious board or are they all to busy on the golf course?.
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Celtic Wullie,
We are going to have to disagree on Jackie, you no doubt have a source, I know my source is good and I firmly believe he was always looking to go unless he could get a deal from Celtic that was way above his worth and Celtic were never going to offer. I believe he got that type of deal from Wolves and good on him, he needs to look after himself.
I go back to my original point, they don't love Celtic, they love the money!.
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My last post on the subject as its way off topic and i'm sure readers are gettin a bit bored.
Larsson could have got a lot more than the 45k pw he got at Celtic so the board used the benefit game as leverage in negotiations. If you spread the 1M over the 3 years extension it doesn't add up to much more, it works out around 50k pw all together. He could have got more elsewhere so obviously his sentimental ties to the club featured. If your righ then why did't he leave after four years for the "dough"?
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looks like it bhoydell.
Re who's telling the porkie? - Jackie M or the celtic board....hmmmmmmm
CW
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You are correct BaldEagle. Last post on the subject from me and I will sumarise.
Larsson was a mercenary
All top footballers are cynical and are in it for the money.
£1m a year over 3 years is "nothing". These "nothings" add up to a loss for the last 5 years and its why the Celtic board get criticised for not spending money, you can't spend what you don't have but footballers will let your club go burst quite happily, beacuse that's how much they love the club..................... and it's money.
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bhoydell - are you John Cole by any chance?!
Hail hail
CW
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Bhoydell are you on the wind up?
