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Hi Paul,
another long time lurker here, I was just telling my work mates this very fact spooky !! But anyone reading your blogs over the last months would have fore seen this
BB
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Excuse me for taking this from the last thread but it my have some barring on why shares have gone up:
Paul67 any thoughts as to the comments on the excellent rumour mill at ETims
that WGS has been a handed £10 million transfer budget. Also “ This entire sum is due to be raised from the up and coming share issue which, despite what you’ve heard, will not take in £15 million. Apparently the projected figure is nearer to £23.5 million which you have to admit is an incredibly specific figure to just pluck out of thin air.”
Fargo, I'm convinced now that you are `the real deal' and not as I had previously posted a farrago. Anybody got an interest free loan for a poor Celtic supporter to buy shares? Please!!!!!
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Pity I have hee haw in the way of spare cash at the moment.
BTW Paul, any chance of commenting on the points raised by myself and others last night regarding MG and ManYoo on the last thread?
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Bigchipsuk and everyone else for that matter when posting a big URL go to www.tinyurl.com and paste it there, it porduces a condensed URL whixh yiou can link to and it will reduce the size so that it doesnt mess the whole page.
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As I've said before, I keep my eye on the share price. What I've not had a chance to do is compare the movement against other clubs e.g Newcastle or other peers. This can be done in Yahoo Finance if you have the time that would give an indication whether Celtic are bucking the trend or it is a natural reaction to Glazer in the Market.
Overall the volume of shares being traded is still low so I would be surprised if it is a demand issue.
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Brilliant work Paul. Folowed the site since the beginning and your foresight has been second to none. Great reading and spot on predictions, keep the good work up.
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Thanks Anonymous 12.26pm. I didn't know that.
http://tinyurl.com/7az4h
Consider it done!
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I'm not sure that the increase in share price is completely relevant to MG's takeover. Surely all football PLCs would have risen by similar margins over this period if that is the case. I haven't checked them all, but I know that Newcastle have levelled for a couple of months now.
This time last year, Celtics share price had fallen from around 75p to 65p in a month where we had just won a league and cup double.
I don't think the fluctuation is significant enough to suggest iminent entry to the EPL or other similar shakeup, as the current share price is still way below what it was last year.
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As I posted on the last thread that a £15M share issue is not a lot given the amount of players we require. I see from CelticBhoy, via Etims, that it is now rumoured to be £23.5. That we only get £10M is a big disappointment that will only buy us:
Niemi - £2M
Bellamy or Another - £5M
Riordan - £1M
Left Back - £2M
We also need a playmaker, a la Lubo. So what about Figo I hear he is on a Bosman. Great player and why not try & get him. Wages may be a problem but at least we could enquire.
We know players with high profiles (Beckham) keep a team in the news and sell merchandise which means more Revenue & a Higher Share price.
If we want to be a part of the big revolution we need to evaluate the risks and take the chance. If we are always prudent we may be left at the turnstyle!!
StevieD
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Anon 12:44, Figo, more of a winger isn't he? Too old, too inconsistent, too expensive.
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Figo's wages are reported to be in the region of £80K per week - DOUBLE what Bellamy is said to be demanding.
Hence Figo would cost us £4M PER YEAR, even without a transfer fee! And would he want to play in he SPL anyway? He was reported to be keen on a move to Old Trafford to play alongside Liam Miller!
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StevieD
You are right enough 10 million from 23 isn’t what we would have hoped for especially your breakdown of possible signings. As well as a playmaker we need a new centrehalf and where would the money be to buy Hartley? In fact the more you look at it there is going to have to be a good deal more than £10 million spent.
As for Figo it seems he has been offered to EPL clubs and Real Madrid would pay half his £80,000 a week wages. I don’t see it do you
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Paul.Great site.
I have held back from buying more shares in case there is a share issue. At least then we can put our money back into the club at the time of asking and show our committment (as fans)to future growth of our club.
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Sorry Paul but I have to disagree on this one,but the fact is just over 100,000 shares have now been "sold" or "exchanged" hands within the Bhoys club recently in a short period.
As you said before,someone has to SELL at this price before anyone can buy them,is there something they know that the rest of us know?
This only(I know this is big money to the average fan) amounts to over 50 thousand pounds of cash money,hardly a big investment for all the big money that is being talked about and being floated about the inner circles & internet.
It only takes a few well heeled fans with a bit of spare cash or a good hand full of average fans or one or two middle class fans(does that mean you Tom64?) being currently directly by your good self.
I don't want to bum about it or take even less pleasure telling this fact but it has to be said to stand my arguement up.
I for one have invested in the last few months a quantity of Celtic shares that equates to one fifth of this amount you talk about.
Half this same amount of shares exchanged hands in the last few months even before we were still in danger of loosing the manager,most of our players,the league and no concrete information about investment for the future.
"Alternatively large shareholders might have taken up positions based on the sudden expectation that significant changes are ahead for Celtic"
You have to think,maybe large shareholders have taken the steps and SOLD also!
It's only one of various reasons that I for one and many others have been able to BUY the shares on the market,unless you have evidence to the conterary to support this which I and others in my company would be eager to here. Is it your own idea this is the "fact" maybe
Lazy journalism on your part maybe?
Big question is Why would anyone sell at this sensitive time of great riches in the future?
"This might just be coincidence"
"small share holders might have come into some spare cash"
Good get out of gaol card to support the argument you say above?
There are two sides to a coin Paul67 that I have realised a long time ago.
The daily rags have a very NEGITIVE spin on CELTIC stories to sell newspapers which is quickly condemned by many supporters including myself which is highly justified for obvious reasons.
CQN has an equally very unhealthy POSITIVE spin on Celtic events at times(not always,mostly healthy POSITIVE spin)
The truth of the matter readers is,the truth always lies in most cases firmly between the NEGITIVE SPIN AND THE POSITIVE SPIN.
Don't mistake this PAUL67 as a personal attack,that it is not,rather a search of reason.
Yours in GLASGOW CELTIC
Cabbage
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How about we take Figo on loan, with Real Madrid paying 3/4 of his wages?
And I noticed a Newcastle Utd fan site this morning reporting that Bellamy is in no rush to leave the Toons, and may even sit it out well into the coming season in the expectation that Souness will be given the boot. Apparently only 1% of their fans like the guy (according to a survey), so it is believed to be a strong possibility.
So why not offer to take Bellamy on loan again for another season? But would he still be eligible to play for us in the CL if he is a loan player?
As for the £10M budget scenario, how about:
Kenny (Sheff U) keeper for £1.5M
Riordan for £1M
Bellamy 1 yr loan £1M
Hartley £1M
CSKA left back £2M
This leaves £3.5M for a couple of good solid centre backs. And we can get Robbie Keane to sign a pre-contract to pick him up on a Bosman at the end of next season to replace Bellamy when he returns to Newcastle.
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Apologies for not posting yesterday to congratulate you on the BIG story, I had to read it a load of times to take it all in. It definately sounds good. I dont think you should reveal any sources although i feel there's more to it that has convinced you beyond doubt that this is the case, you should reveal what you can to prove to the doubters that you have done the homework and its not just an optimistic view on the situation.
On todays note, I too have heard the £23.5m figure and thought it was a bit too precise to be a guess, now that its been mentioned here too i'm getting a bit 'excited'!!
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Afternoon all, I don't think that the possible share issue is for short term funding of players. The new season starts in about 8 weeks. I would imagine that funding for players will come from 'existing banking facilities' as Paul has shown before.
A share issue would take rather longer to arrange. In saying that maybe they can borrow against it. Don't know.
Fingers crossed on Bellamy, Keane, Riordan and Niemi. I get the impression GS is better at getting leaks out to the media than MO was.
It's gonna get exciting....
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Bigchipsuk
Seems sensible to me, maybe you can put it to WGS affter he gets back from his holiday in Spain, from where, according to the Evening times 2/6/05, he keeps in contact with CP!
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Figo? youve got to be joking.
Let Figo go to Bolton and do what Macca done for Man City, what Kluivert done for Newcastle or what Juninho done for Celtic. Im not one for overpaid journeymen myself.
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PS. This figureof £10-23.5m, as Paul talked about before, will probably a few years' budget rolled together, which doesn't help matters but its still a lot more than we've come to expect recently.
So start the rebuilding Gordon we're behind you all the way.
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Interesting article I found from back in 2003, makes interesting reading with regards to what has gone on recently.
Dermot Desmond - the billionaire majority shareholder in Celtic and a Manchester United shareholder - has slammed clubs, broadcasters and administrators running soccer in England and Scotland.
In an astonishing attack, Desmond slams the "cartel" behind football both North and South of the border which he says is thwarting competion.
He says the current soccer tv rights system is illegal and calls for an independent regulator to oversee the game.
He spoke exclusively to the BBC's Business Editor Jeff Randall on BBC Radio Five Live.
Mr Desmond said: "The Premier League clubs � the smaller ones that is - have issued a mandate to the executive that they don't want Celtic and Rangers in the Premiership because they might undermine their position in the league so the Premier league executive are under guidance from those majority of clubs, and again I don't think that is competition and I don't think that's in the interests of football.
"Do you take Real Madrid and Barcelona and Juventus out of the European championship because people don't want to play them because they are too good?
"I don't think that's the way to go forward, i'ts illegal, it's wrong and it's not in the interests of clubs."
Mr Desmond continues: "I prefer the Italian model... which would create balance whereby the top clubs negotiate with the smaller clubs, that's reality.
"To say that all clubs are equal - forget about it. Manchester United have five times the revenue [of most other clubs]."
He claimed the current system for deciding television rights to the Premiership was "not transparent."
He said: "It's not in the interests of football and something has to be done about it."
Dermot Desmond calls for an independent regulator to decide on how television rights are organised, with members decided by the Minister for Sport.
He says: "The resistance is in the main from those clubs that feel threatened by Celtic and Rangers who may get relegated or be denied a Champions League place...
"We've carried out surveys and reviews and neutral people want to see Celtic and Rangers in the Premier League in the UK.
"They would bring in excess of �100 million a year to the Premiership.
"UEFA and FIFA do not object to Celtic and Rangers joining the Premiership if the SFA and the FA agree so it is not a legal restriction.
"I think football would be better in Scotland and football would be better in the Premiership."
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That was from Declan in Derry. I'm at work sorry to have to sign anonymous
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Whilst I'm at the PC, I suggest CELTIC SUPPORTERS log onto CELTIC.NET and click on the
"DESMOND BLASTS DIVISIVE FORCES"
Maybe in DD's first or rare address to the supporters via the Club website it should be more POSITIVE,If he and the rest of the board weren't so good at distancing themselves from the supporters in the Celtic View,Celtic website,AGM etc then they might have an idea why these very circumstances have born fruit.
Obviously we seem to disgust Mr Desmond & Co,hence the reason he has to tell us so publicly rather that clear the air,during his consistent abuse of the fans again and again in this statement.
He may think we are a minority.
I honestly don't know what to make of his comments!
What does anyone else think about it?
Cabbage
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Can someone cut and paste the dermot desmond article on here
Cheers
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Cabbage, clearly he and his colleagues have taken this criticicm personally, and are hurt as a result. But before the inevitable backlash can I just ask that anyone trying to drive DD and his fellow power-brokers out of our club has suitably reliable, competent and trustworthy replacements lined up first.
These guys obviously put in a lot of effort for the plc, and they are consistently subjected to much more public and personal criticicm than your average plc board member.
It's not an easy job, and while they shouldn't expect the public's plaudits for doing that job, they obviously feel that they are criticised too much for simply trying to keep the ship on course.
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Cabbage,
Although I follow your line of argument
I think you are being grossly unfair in comparing Paul and the site to the tabloids and your typical Scottish football hack.
Paul's stories often do put a positive spin on Celtic events. I wouldn't dispute that. They are often an interpretation and analysis of "facts" through green and white spectacles. I don't think Paul hides this and indeed, what would you expect from a Celtic website?!
In contrast the tabliods claim to be an impartial and objective medium. Yet despite this charade we all know they work to a very specific agenda when it comes to Celtic.
They deliberately distort fact and present it as truth. If it suits their purpose they will even just make the whole thing up (Thugs and Thieves).
Has Paul ever been guilty of this? I don't think so.
You also fail to acknowledge one huge factor. Ask yourself these questions:- Do Keevins, Traynor, McNee etc ever give their readers the right to reply?
Do the tabloid hacks ever enter into a reasoned debate with those wishing to question their stories?
Do they ever acknowledge the validity of other viewpoints and even accept that their own stance may not always be correct?
Do they let their readers take the story forward to different and opposing stances?
Do they hell. We know Paul does - and often on a daily basis. Surely this pluralist right to reply provided by CQN acts as a counter balance to any perceived spin in the original story.
Paul knows the readership here are as likely to challenge his points as take his word as gospel.
You prove that point!
Anyway, in short I think you do Paul a real diservice with your comparison.
Hail! Hail!
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Desmond's disappointment
Stephen Sullivan
From the press conference at which his departure was announced to his farewell speech on the hallowed turf of Celtic Park, it was notable that no-one was thanked more often by Martin O’Neill in his final week as manager than Dermot Desmond.
Notable because the outgoing Hoops manager’s genuine, heart-felt gratitude to the club’s board and majority shareholder stood completely at odds with the popular portrayal of O’Neill as a man who has spent the past five years in perpetual conflict with Celtic’s powerbrokers.
For Desmond, there is certainly a bitter irony to the fact that, having spent the best part of the past few years faced with accusations that he and the board were driving their manager away, it’s only with great reluctance and a heavy heart that his fellow Irishman and close friend is now torn from his post.
His only hope is that, while O’Neill will unquestionably be missed, the manner in which this most dignified of managers has conducted himself during his time in charge can become a standard to which everyone connected with the club can, and will, aspire.
Speaking exclusively to the Celtic website, Desmond said: “With Martin, as I’ve said many times before, I recruited a manager and ended up with a friend, as did my family.
“That relationship will not just terminate because he’s left the football club, although obviously I feel terribly sorry about the circumstances that are preventing him from continuing as Celtic manager.
“I can only stress how grateful I am to him for all that he’s given to the club and the fans over the past five years, and for the part he’s played in passing on the baton to Gordon Strachan.
“The spirit and co-operation between Martin and Gordon has been fantastic, and it really should be the norm for everything regarding this football club.
“Sadly, we on the board have never been given the slightest recognition for getting Martin and helping him build the team that has been so successful over the past years. Instead, we’ve had to put up with constant speculation about him going when, as he said last week, he’s never wanted to leave and still doesn’t.
“But the fans should not believe that there is a division between Martin and the board when no division ever existed. Perhaps, rather than criticising a board who work tirelessly on behalf of this club, the fans should take their ire out on the those who make these false and outlandish statements without any comeback whatsoever.
“I think there is an attempt to divide the Celtic family in some sections of the media and, unfortunately, a significant portion of the fans are allowing this to happen. I think that’s a great pity because I had always felt and hoped that we had a tradition of unity greater than that.”
For a man who, over 12 years, has invested significantly more in Celtic than any individual in the club’s history, it has become an increasingly galling and disillusioning experience for Desmond to read and hear the public perception of his and the board’s efforts.
As he he reflected this week: “At this club, it seems the more money you invest, the more abuse you receive.”
Even so, and though long since resigned to the thankless nature of his role, the past season has represented something of a nadir in this respect for Celtic’s majority shareholder, whose disenchantment with a malcontent minority element of the club’s support peaked with the booing of Brian Quinn during a half-time presentation to Villarreal’s Submari CSC on April 2nd.
For Desmond, this public show of disrespect for the club’s dedicated chairman not only represented the most powerful deterrent to any potential investors – it also left him and many of those currently devoting time and money to the club sorely tempted to remove themselves from the firing line.
He said: “For me, the biggest disappointment of this season besides Martin’s departure was the reception that Brian was given by the fans that day. I’ll be honest – it changed my attitude towards the club.
“For the first time, I questioned whether I wanted to be associated with the kind of fans, albeit a minority, who would abuse and taunt a man who has put so much of his time and energy into developing their club. I was embarrassed and disgusted by the whole episode.
“I’m used to the fact that the bulk of the board’s work goes unrecognised, but at times like those I feel that I’d prefer just to be a fan - but a real fan, not one so fickle and quick to criticism that he boos someone without any justification whatsoever. I don’t want to be subject to that kind of betrayal.
“As far as I’m concerned, what those fans did to Brian Quinn undermined the whole tradition of this club and also made it extremely unattractive for anyone considering putting money in, including myself.
“But what I’ve always said is that, while I believe we are running this club well and responsibly, if the fans or any individual believes they can do a better job and wants to invest in the club, I would never refuse their funds. I’ve never heard the fans say: ‘Let’s double the price of season tickets so we can use the funds to buy players.’”
Attempting to justify, even partially, the jeering of Quinn – not to mention Fergus McCann before him – may amount to a defence of the indefensible in Desmond’s eyes, but the club’s majority shareholder is nevertheless acutely aware that the simplistic and insatiable demand for big spending, regardless of the consequences, is simply being relayed from the country’s sports pages.
He said: “Every time I have the misfortune to see a Scottish newspaper, there always seems to be the same rubbish written about ‘splashing the cash,’ ‘speculating to accumulate’ and ‘opening the purse-strings.’ Let me tell you, these are passwords to bankruptcy.
“The Celtic board is too intelligent and has too much respect for the tradition of the club to jeopardise its existence by giving in to such nonsense, and it surprises me fans have such short-term memories in this respect. It seems that they don’t remember how close the club came to going out of business 12 years ago.
“At the same time, people should also remember that we have actually made substantial investment in the playing squad, despite headlines to the contrary.”
Of some consolation to Desmond is that, in Strachan, he believes the club have appointed a manager highly unlikely to be influenced by whims and opinions that tend to change as quickly as our fair city’s weather.
“Gordon will make his own mark on Celtic Football Club and he’ll do it his way,” Desmond enthused. “He certainly isn’t the kind of man to listen or be dictated to by anyone.
“Martin knew, as we did, that substantial changes needed to be made this summer and we had discussed with him a major overhaul of the playing squad. Now that task has passed to Gordon and he doesn’t need to be told by anyone about what’s needed.
“He has his own ideas and everyone at the club, in particular the Celtic board, is completely committed to supporting those and giving Gordon all the backing we can.”
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Hi
what about matthew upson, about to leave on a free from birmingham as he wants to play in Europe,
He is a decent player
if we got him bellamy and robbie keane that would be perfect.
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I would advise people to read MON statement about how he feels he was treated by said press and one specific indivdual who MON says should look into his own past of shame.
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I've just read the article on the Celtic FC web site and I can't say I disagree with anything that was said. I'm not an apologist for the board but the man has a point.
I was especially interested to read Dermot's comments about the booing of quinn acting as a deterrent to new investors. For those of you that diagree with this comment can I point you at this article from the times?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,8305-1635636,00.html
If you cant be bothered reading the whole article the section that I believe is relevant is this:
"Cubic Expression, the investment vehicle of Magnier and McManus, would have to sell, the logic went, because if it did not, it would be perceived that the deal had collapsed because of pressure from the fans and United would therefore be considered too volatile to be worthy of a takeover for five years at least. As a result, the share price would crumple, which meant that Magnier and McManus had to take Glazer’s offer or wipe almost one third from their investment. The irony being that the louder the supporters shouted, the more inevitable the deal became."
There has been some comment on this site recently about the booing of Larsson and Liam Miller but none that I have seen concerning the booing of Quinn. Perhaps we should be giving a bit more thought to exactly who deservers our support and who does not.
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Celticbhoy
The ETims figure is not what I have been working on.
Cabbage, baiting me with the “Lazy” taunt, please.
The market works in a more efficient way than most people think. Short of someone selling or buying a significant volume the price will often be determined by buy and sell orders which are left open.
In the market Celtic shares are always available at a price each trader has determined to sell at in advance – in other words thousands of Celtic shares are always for sale.
The average price people have been prepared to sell at has clearly risen.
Many thanks Wee Jinky
Not heard what DD has been saying yet.
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Yet more confused reporting on share issues and transfer budgets. I think Paul clarified this before, the two are not the same. The transfer budget is available due to amortisation and other accounting trickery. The £15m (or 23.854m - I added the .054 for a laugh) is different money. I believe this is preferential shares anyway and as such won't be offered to ourselves. It looks to me like this share issue will allow DD to increase his investment in Celtic without increasing his percentage increase, he then doesn't have to take control of the club, in teh future he will be able to cash in more chips though and his investments potential is then increased. Paul only knows where this money might be spent?
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I don't see that much wrong with Desmond's comments. Personally, I have never agreed with booing the board or the team. It adds fuel to the fire for the media.
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Hey, Antti Niemi is becoming more affordable by the day... Two days ago he was supposedly being touted at £4M. Then yesterday all the stories were saying £3M. Now it seems that he's had a further million knocked off his price:
http://itv-football.co.uk/Teams/Southampton/story_154039.shtml
"Harry: Niemi won't leave on cheap
Harry Redknapp insists Antti Niemi will not leave Southampton for less than £2million.
..."It is like everything else, if Celtic want him they will have to pay the price. It will take at least £2million. That's what the club paid for him," Redknapp vowed."
OK. £1M now and £1M at the end of the season. Deal done!
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I was embarassed by the booing of Brian Quinn as well as the treatment Fergus got unveiling the league flag.
The article might sound like whining from DD, but what are these guys supposed to do ? We expect them to ne custodians of our club, we want them to ensure we don't get back to the days of the Kellys and the Whites. So they act conservatively and are prudent with the finances while still spending more than at any other time in our history.
Do we want DD to say "for every £5 Rangers spend I'll spend £10"? Do we want a Peter Risdale the fan's friend till they found out he had destroyed the club?
Personally speaking and from what I have read along the way, I think the board are doing not a bad job. Sure we'll always want better players want to win everything in sight that's part of being a supporter, but we also want a club that's relatively financially sound and going in the right direction. We entrust the board with that resposibility. If we have read the accounts and don't like what we see. If we think the club is being mismanaged then we can complain. But let's face it the majority of fans' opinion of the board comes from the tabloids and the radio - and what do any of them know about running a PLC?
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I was pleased to read DD’s comments on the clubs web page – it’s about time the fans who booed Brian Quinn (and Fergus McCann beforehand) were challenged to consider the consequences of their (free) choice. The fans who boo are perfectly entitled to their opinion – God knows they pay enough money in season tickets to have earned that right. Personally, I didn’t agree with their actions in either BQ or FMc case. What the statement from DD does confirm though is exactly how this action affected our biggest investor….(and the man behind the MON appointment / retention over the last 5 years)…and I think it’s pretty concerning. There’s a very simplistic analysis of this that would have helped avoid there being a need felt by some fans to boo:
1) If the Board were better at informing the fans in their PR and therefore counteracting what they (the board) know is anti Celtic/ sensationalist journalism.
2) If fans refused to read / believe the sensationalist and one dimensional reporting of Celtic’s financial prudence.
Simplistic analysis I know – and not easy to achieve – maybe someone could start a Blog in the meantime that would help both sides of the equation in 1) and 2) above to understand each other better………….
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Can someone post the MON comments please?
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Just read DD comments and tell you what I agree with 90% of it.
I was disgusted by the treatment Quinn got that day, and if it hurt DD that bad then I fear for the future.
Why do I fear for the future look at what happened at Manure when the fans annoyed the most powerful people at their club.
As for the press he calls it spot on but begs the question why are celtic not improving there own media outlets to get the message across.
Must admit the piece comes across a bit egotisical and a bit look at me im great.
That’s not right and really the board in a perfect world should not be seen and take satisfaction from the success on the park knowing they have contributed.
Overall I say well done DD when you put your head over the trench you certainly make good reading.
Wonder what negative spin will be put on this as we have a lot of no bad press recently.
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I agree totally with his comments about Quinn and I also felt sad at the way McCann was booed after we the league and stopped 10-in-a-row.
I don’t think that anyone on this site who could afford to invest in Celtic wouldn’t.
But why has it taken DD two months since the Villareal game to make his feelings known, ( is he getting knock backs from investors this is not to say they are not justified just that it seems the wrong time to make this statement. Especially after losing the league to a grossly inferior Motherwell let alone a Rangers club which is crippled by debt.
I have no doubts that if even the minority of fans who he is having a go at seen him leading then they would follow.
I am sure he will know that the fans have put their money into Celtic via the various share issues, we have gone deep into our pockets and spend a huge percentage of our disposable income on Celtic week in and out and will do so in the next few weeks via season tickets and new strips etc.
At a time when there is a good feeling among fans why come out with this now?
If he can’t find it in him to thank the majority of the support for their support before having a go at us why should we defend him?
Part of this site has been to try and put a positive spin on what Celtic are doing and to try and make up for the lack of the bulk of the boards work going “unrecognised”. If it does who is to blame for that, the fans?
Paul and others here have pointed out the total lack of communication for CP to the fans.
Charm offensive where are thou DD.
Where was the big story vision for Celtic laid down by DD in this or any other article to get us behind the board?
I for one moment do not think that anyone on the board doesn’t hurt when we lose they are all fans.
I for one want DD and BQ leading us forward but if they are not there I will still be.
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is there any chance of opening a new board paul? this is a right pain to read today what with having to scroll left and right all the time.
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This is along the lines of what Paul was saying here at the time: http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/2005/04/no-harm-in-booing-is-there.shtml
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"I'm well aware that Celtic with Gordon Strachan now in charge will be doing everything they can to get the title back. But while that is always a possibility, I am not worried about the challenge. It hasn't bothered me for 18 years - so I don't see why it should bother me now" - David Murray
Me thinks the lady doth protest too much.
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Wee Jinky,
"the truth always lies in most cases firmly between the NEGITIVE SPIN AND THE POSITIVE SPIN"
All I'm saying is read between the lines,that where you tend to find the truth more often than not,Pauls not right all the time,just as much as the daily rags aren't wrong all time.at no point did I say Paul doesn't let anyone reply!That's what I'm doing,right?
PAUL67 takes the right stance of printing the mostly positive actions coming from CP,
you said:
"deliberately distort fact and present it as truth"
That's all I did was point out in Pauls Article above.(overly POSITIVE)you only have to read the "might" on a few ocassions,but I'm sure Pauls a big bhoy,he can answer for himself.
Paul67 the "Lazy" quote was certainly NOT a taunt,isn't that what you are fighting against? I dare to question you? yet I'm given the diservice of a one line "Lazy quote"If you don't want to reply that is fine but don't think I was "taunting you" as I said far from it,it was a very reasonable point of view from me.Your views are usually on a par, the same lines as myself but obviously my view this time maybe wrong.
Cabbage
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Re;DD
The EGO has definetly landed....
The real reasons for BQ being booed:
A minority of the fans are ignorant-FACT
The Celtic PR department are at best inept, so the fans (including those mentioned above) go to the tabloids to get the "insider stories" Their jobs is.....(we have heard it on this site 100 times so I wont repeat).... Do you hear of any Big european Club/or Company for that matter moaning about their press coverage....
We were getting beat at half-time by a mediocre team
We were getting beat by a mediocre team because there has been a lack of investment in the team for several seasons...
The managers job is to take the pressure of the players and the board's job is to take the pressure off the manager. Taking the flak is part of that job.
With regards receiving little credit....look at the turnover line and your underlying investment value....you will have all the thanks you can need...If its not enough Im sure there are others waiting patiently...
On a different subject: Paul- can we have a revised budget pretty please...It would be a good yardstick to hold up to the board with their summer spend....
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Cabbage, I gave you a 7 line response....
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At 2:38 PM, Anonymous said…
"is there any chance of opening a new board paul? this is a right pain to read today what with having to scroll left and right all the time."
Is this anything to do with the long URL I posted earlier Paul? (My screen is fine though - no L or R scrolling required.)
If it is, feel free to amend my earlier post to put the "TinyURL" in place of the one I cut & pasted.
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If anyone has read MON comments can they please elaborate on who he was referring to when he said:
"It was also galling to have aspersions cast over my dignity by the journalists in question, and one in particular who might do well to reflect on his own past before pointing the finger at those of us with considerably less to be ashamed of"
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Paul
I have spent a little time with Shareholders United recently and they are formulating a plan which may be worthy of an individual blog on your site. In simple term, their idea is now to sell out to Glazer but bank the money (esimates at 140m given the £3 share price) instead of distributing it back to individual shareholders. The reason for this would be that if the sword of damocles was to fall on glazer's revolution then they would be in a position to buy back a significant portion of the club - especially if the share price was well below the £3 paid.
There are more details to be flushed out in this but I think it may be worthy of comment from the regulars and will support your line on the strength of fan ownership.
CQN family, let me know what you think.
McStay
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Bigchipsuk,
I like your thinking regarding getting Keane on a pre-contract (I think we could do this in January?).
If there is one glaring failing that has been shared by Celtic's board and management alike it is the inability to capitalise on the 'good' side of the Bosman ruling.
What possible sense can there be in blowing £2M-£3M of a limited budget on someone we can get for nothing a year form now? That sort of cah will pay his wages for 2 years!
Much as I love to slag off TFOD at every opportunity, they HAVE taken advantage of Bosman. Get Boumsong for nowt, sell 6 months later for a few million. We seem to be one of the few real 'buying' clubs around.
A link (from another site?) to an article showed that at the last transfer window all clubs in France, Spain, Italy and Germany combined only spent £10M.
We must get smarter with our signing policy and wage structure. Sure, be prepared to pay out big money to excellent players but make the basic wage low(ish) and make the bonuses very attractive.
You can never, ever lose money selling a player you got for nothing.
Regards to all
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BigChipSuk, I have no powers of edit, only you can do this, and yes it is your post to blame.
McStay, Sharesholders United have a very interesting idea there. Agree it is worth following up on.
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Looks like Mr.Sullivan on CELTIC.NET and his headline
"Demond blasts divisive forces"
has been dropped from RED alert to GREEN alert,now on the website it reads,
"DESMONDS DIAPPOINTMENT"
didn't take long for them to judge the reactions on CQN.at least you know they are listening.
Cabbage
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Looks like Mr.Sullivan on CELTIC.NET and his headline
"Demond blasts divisive forces"
has been dropped from RED alert to GREEN alert,now on the website it reads,
"DESMONDS DISPPOINTMENT"
didn't take long for them to judge the reactions on CQN.at least you know they are listening.
Cabbage
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Liam H.
I was under the impression (from listening to Clyde it has to be said) that players can sign a pre-contract with another club at any time e.g Petrov could sign a new four year deal with us tomorrow and sign a pre-contract with for four years later with another team the next day - provided the other team contacted Celtic and told them theis was happening.
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Timmy7,
Thanks for clearing that up for me. So many rules to keep track of now! why I remember the day when...
When you say they can sign a pre-contract any time does that mean only in terms of number of years in advance? I only ask as I'm fairly sure they still have to do it during transfer windows.
Mind you, I could well be wrong about this. It has been known ;-)
Regards
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DD comments are a DISGRACE. Who pays the bills at CP? Us, the fans. And yet he asks why have we not demanded the season books be doubled in price!!! What percentage of your income do you give to Celtic Dermott? Bet it's less than mine.
This man has an incredible ability to offend the people he so desperately needs to keep his shares being worth anything. Once again on the back of a positive week, Celtic manage to throw out a story to give the tabloids some fuel.
DD? You couldn't even spell Public relations.
qmark
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timmy7
In theory you are correct but in practice no club would every sign a pre-contract with a player that had over a year to run on their existing contract. In your example Celtic would need to give the other team permission to speak to Petrov rather than that team simply telling Celtic that they were speaking to him.
Pre-contracts are typically signed in the January transfer window when a player will become a free agent in the close season. According to UEFA players in this position are free to discuss their future with other clubs without seeking the approval of their current club. While this is the UEFA guidline it is worth pointing out that National Associations have their own interpretation of this rule e.g The English FA does not allow communication in the example above until the 3rd weekend in May. I'm not sure what the exact regulation is in Scotland.
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Timmy,
Clubs can only talk to players in the last six months of their contract...this is the time when pre-contract agreements can be signed. If players could sign a pre-contract agreement at any time, then Mourinho and Chelsea wouldn't be in hot water for tapping up Cole.
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qmark. Just how exactly do you propose that DD invests more money in the club?
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qmark
Im sorry but ive jst read DD comments and i cant see how you can deem them offensive.
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Tony (2:05pm)
The day after Quinn was booed at CP whilst making a presentation to Villareal I posted a message saying how disgusted I was at the way a large proportion of the support treated the man. I agree with DD in that " I questioned whether I wanted to be associated with the kind of fans, albeit a minority, who would abuse and taunt a man who has put so much of his time and energy into developing their club. I was embarrassed and disgusted by the whole episode."
It's easy for everyone else to sit there and say- "pile your money in Quinn, Desmond etc." Would you? Jim Royale would answer that question beautifully.
GingerAvenger
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Anon 3.40
There are plenty of things that could be considered a disgrace. The actions of those fans that embarrassed our club by booing BQ during the presentation to the Villareal CSC being one example.
DD has as much right to complain as anyone else. He has ploughed large amounts of his, admittedly huge, fortune into Celtic and all he gets in return is criticism from an ignorant mob who only want him to throw more cash at the club. For once he has decided to hit back and I, for one, don't blame him one bit. Certainly, I'd be overjoyed if he suddenly decided to gift, say, £50M to the club. But that should be his choice and he should not be the subject of vile invective should he choose to do otherwise.
So what if you spend a greater % of your income on Celtic? Is this now some new measure of how much of a fan you are? A guy who earns £20k per year is better than a fan on £22k?
It amused me that those who justify there endless sniping at the board for not backing MoN financially failed to note that MoN himself had nothing but good things to say in terms of the support they gave him. Mind you, see that MoN? He was a right smart cookie that had worked out you can't spend what you ain't got.
Ask yourself whether we are better off for having DD on board. If you reckon not, I'd be delighted to hear your suggestion as a replacement. Presumably someone very rich who would be willing to throw endless amounts of cah at the club rather than seeing it a s a well run, self-sustaining business?
Now I think I'll put my tin hat on and wait for the barrage of abuse (you know the sort "board apologist, rant, fume, yada yada yada...)
Regards to all
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I spent the whole day with the Villareal fans and felt even more angry at the abuse that BQ got. But why after 2 months does DD bring this up?
I want a vision and leadership from CP not criticism (justified or not) when we have just lost the league, manager and had BQ create the PR clanger of the year with his mobile phone. If this was Rangers we would still be on the floor laughing.
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Agree 100% with Dermot Desmond.
I'm glad he qualified that it was a minority of fans, but I wonder if he realises how few the minority probably was?
Like in the Fergus case, it doesn't take many fans creating an almighty din when the vast majority are silent, awaiting a speech. You'd be lucky if it was more than a couple of thousand out of 60,000. And they embarrassed the club big time as our Chairman welcomed the supporters of a club who ironically were there because of their admiration for the Celtic support!
I've met Brian Quinn on a couple of occasions, including a bar in Amsterdam with his sons as we celebrated the first but not last of MON's European successes.
Unless this guy is an actor of John Gielgud proportions, let me tell you the club means as much to him as the regulars on the blog.
Because of the worldwide size of our support however, the criticism of even a small minority still equates to a lot of people.
People who defend the right to slag off players during games often resort to the ".....he's getting £25,000 a week, I pay his wages so I can say what I like"
argument.
Brian Quinn get £15,000.
A year.
Like he would settle for that, plus all the hassle without a great love for the club.
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Ginger Avenger,
I just copied the article from the CFC web site as someone had requested it.
I had not made any comments myself.
I can see where DD is coming from.
He has pumped a lot of his own money into the Club as well and often fans ask him to pump more in.
I think the problem lies with communication like many others.
CQN is a good source of explanation of what the situation is in terms of finance, i hope that more people get to know about it through the site.
The club could do more in that respect, they have Celtic TV, their web site and other avenues in which to educate people better.
Otherwise they are left to the red tops and some other sites that are shameful in their pursuit of clicks and financial gain and they are as bad as each other.
If DD left tomorrow where would we be?
EPL dream dead and gone?
A new investor who could run us into more debt than we can manage?
I agree with him, the board should get credit for the work they are doing and have done, if MON was happy with them then that's good enough for me.
It's all about educating those who do not understand.
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I would have to say that I agree with all of those who have defended Desmond's actions. He is as entitled as anyone else to voice his opinion about the reaction of the Celtic support. The fact that he is 100% correct does not even matter. The only two days in my life that I can say I was somewhat embarrassed about the actions of Celtic fans was during the Villareal game and before the opening game of the 98-99 season, where Fergus McCann was booed off the pitch during the raising of the flag. Did any Celtic fan stop to consider that this may have been the reason that McCann never left any money for the club when he sold his shares...being in his position, I'm not sure I would have.
As far as Desmond pumping more money into the club, I agree, I would love to see a donation of 'x' amount of money. However, just because Desmond has the money does not mean he is obligated to give it to Celtic. Consider this....If each of the 80,000 Celtic fans that were in Seville gave up 2 pints A WEEK (or say 4 quid) that would give the manager an extra 16 million A YEAR. How many of these everyday fans are willing to do that? I know a lot of people dig deep already to cough up the money for their season tickets, but there are a lot of other Celtic fans who can definitely afford the 200 quid a year.
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Cabbage,
You made a straight comparison between this site and the tabloids.
The main purpose of my post was to highlight the vast differences between the two.
It is these differences that IMO make CQN an infinitely more honest and accountable medium for presenting Celtic news than any tabloid.
I'm well aware Paul is more than capable of fighting his own corner on this issue.
The purpose of my post wasn't to argue Paul's case but to merely express how I saw matters which, for all I know, could be very different to Paul.
Hail! Hail!
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Just as I will not now ask for DD or anyone else to put in their money (simple because it is their money) please don’t ask me to put in 4 quid or £208 per year more than I do now for myself two kids season tickets, strips Celtic pools, paradise windfall etc. If I had anymore money to spend on Celtic I would upgrade my season tickets.
The last time I looked Celtic were in the unique position as one of the top 20 highest income clubs in Europe because they get more than half of their income directly from the fans.
Celtic fans not putting money into the club is not the issue we do more so than any club.
