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Looking at the UEFA web site there are 15 teams who go straight into the group stages therefore there will be 17 3rd round qualifying ties. Here's hoping the draw is kind to us.
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Agreed, I'm losing no sleep that Celtic have signed nobody yet. I thin the transition from MON to WGS has been relatively smooth. There has been no mad scramble to find a manager before signing any old player left at the end of July. I'm hopeful and positive that the future is indeed green.
The reporting on Jackie Mac, has been as expected, I heard mention of "buscuit tin mentality" this morning on the radio. I don't think McNamara was as wanted as we've been led to believe otherwise his contract would have been signed weeks or months ago, then again maybe this was left for the new manager to decide? WGS must have (and I hope so) bigger fish to fry.
Have to admit to loving the rumour season, even if I do end up shouting at the TV/radio or throwing newspapers about.
It's better than listening, to arrogant snobs batter on about EU rebates or the next law to curb our liberties. I wonder if there is an EU directive on journalistic impartiality.
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Paul67
Any thoughts on the budget for the coming two months? Would this be a stand-alone figure or would some it have to come from any share issue that is planned?
My thoughts are that we could afford a net £10mill spend and still keep the bank on-side without any need to draw down on the share issue.
Any ideas?
After yesterday we need to get back to the task in hand, building a better football club.
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Paul,
Thanks for the latest analysis. I basically share your optimism about where we're heading. For the sake of folk like my Dad, who are getting nervous through the drip drip influence of such as Radio Snide and the Daily Hun & Retard, could you give us some idea of the quality of player we plan to be signing? Mind you, no rumours; we've more than enouhg of those to be going on with
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Rapid Vienna ? Oh Yes - I'd take them in a minute. The atmosphere would be incredible,and it would be a great opportunity to right a few wrongs, methinks.
I would imagine we'll only get the first CL qualifying tie included with the new season book.
Lets hope we gel quickly and WGS gets off to a flyer.
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Im really looking forward to theses qualifying games even though our squad seems to be getting smaller by the minute.
Im glad a bit of time is being taken to make sure we get the right men for the job (even if it is driving me up the wall).
The media coverage of the Mcnamara thing has been as predictable as ever.
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Rapid Vienna - just the very mention of the name still gets my hackles rising!!!! Along with Atletico Madrid they are joint number 2 on my 'teams we would most love to give a right good drubbing to' list!!!
As yet I am not too worried about the 'goings' as long as the 'comings' are of the quality we desire. I find it interesting that it has gone fairly quiet around Niemi and Bellamy; indeed teams they have been linked with have been active in filling those positions! Or am I being just a bit too optimistic?
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Current best XI to face a champsleague qualifier:
Marshall, Laursen, Agathe, Varga, Sutton, Petrov, Lennon, Thompson, McGeady, Hartson, Beattie.
I think that needs more than a major overhall. Does anyone know where to find the squad inherited by MoN when he took over in 2000? I don't think it would be a bad shout to claim that WGS might have a harder task than Martin did all those years ago (player wise, obviously the structure and standing of the club is much higher now).
Players like Larsson, mjallby, petrov, lambert were all at the club and still young. Does the current squad have anything compared to those four in their prime in 2000? Petrov excepted.
McStay
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Though it was somewhat disturbing to see the manner in which Jackie Mac was let go, I think if the truth be known Jackie is at a stage in his career where it is Wolves who are taking the risk. Jackie is no longer the "barn burner" that Macnamara's Band could be.
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frankiebhoy
there will be 16 teams who go staraight into the group....
there will be 16 third round qualifiers..
presumably UEFA's site still has the "blank" space for"holder"....it will not be filled with a direct enttarnt this year...Liverpool go in as a "non-country" team in the first round..
has knock on effects in various bits...in QR Romania's champs now go into qr3 rather than qr2.and I think Slovakia's title winners get into qr2 rather than QR1...
when it gets to the group stages...if Liverpool get in...then some teams might fall out of a Pot...e.g Porto will be pot 2 rather than 1...
but there will definitely only be 16 third round qualifiers.....trust me!!
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Paul
You tell us you are led to believe that the re-building process this close season will be significant and that it is important that the money is spent wisely and not quickly. I completely agree that the re-building needs to be significant and am pleased to see the beginnings of moving on expensive benchwarmers.
I cannot take issue either with your view that we need to spend wisely but cannot reconcile that spending wisely and quickly are somehow incompatible. Hence my uneasiness at the lack of activity so far persists since past evidence suggests that this is may be the forerunner ultimately of poorly thought out panic “buys” to assuage opinion.
It has been possible for you through this excellent site to highlight the opportunity for a big spend this summer for almost the past 9 months or so. If it was clear to you then surely it was just as clear to the powers at CP.
The poverty weariness and in some cases lack of ability of the squad has been discussed for months on this site. That surely has also been obvious to the people at CP .
MON’s situation must have been clear also.
Those players likely to be available on Bosman’s are known or can be established quite easily.
The players of interest for a fee are known or should be. If not then someone needs to be accountable.
The agents are out there.
Some suggest deals have been done. What possible reason could delay their announcement?
Why then I must ask is it not right for us to question the lack of activity thus far? It is simply not believable to suggest that this is part of a negotiating strategy. Rather it suggests entirely the opposite.
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Paul67,
you say "led to believe" I would genuinely be very interested to hear where your optimism is comimg from.
MON and GS stated that it was vital that Lennon and MacNamara should stay at the club. An old pals act I don´t reckon. By letting Jackie Mac go we have lost a good solid player on a reasonable wage who will need replaced at a cost. If this is done then I for one will be happy at least about one thing.If this was the case his testimonial should have been his official swansong. Not a good start under GS IMHO so far.
The agitation felt by most supporters is due to recent circumstances; capitulation, MON, Bobo,Lennon,Jac Mac and the worst of the rest leaving without diddley sqaut been put in place yet.A pro active Celtic would be a fine thing. I for one am not panicing as we have VERY SADLY seen this situation TOO MANY TIMES before.ESPECIALLY RECENTLY! However we do only have 6 weeks to get a team formed that just might well have to play against a Shaktar or a Basle. Will that Celtic team be better than the one when we needed the dodgy decision against 9 of them at Parkhead last season? I really hope and pray that is the case. I´m sure we all agree that unless Celtic really splash the cash or pull a warren out of the hat this time it is still a very tall order for a team that recently couldn´t beat Hibs at home. Motherwell away even though a title and millions of dollars was riding on it.A team that MIGHT well also have included already our biggest summer signing in Craig Bellamy.A team that knew that our finest manager in years was probably leaving.Another PR mistake btw if it had been announced a few weeks earlier it might have been the spur to carry us over that line.. anyway I digress NO CL = NO PROFIT = LOSS which might just scamper any grand secretive plans that Celtic are about to surprise me with. I hope its not too professionally and slickly done as my heart will not be prepared for such a momentous change of direction from Celtic plc and Celtic when it was ran under the family dynasties. I hope the board are aware of this.
I will offer a cynical retort to the situation at Celtic and that due to our very parsimonious (a great word that one) ... our stingy board that we will see nothing special arrive at Parkhead until we qualify for this seasons CL.
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Great_no_8
Here's the squad 99/00.
http://tinyurl.com/7l4gk
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Paul,
What is your take on the reported £7 million that the club is set to receive from UEFA for their participation in last season's Champions League?
Will this be invested in players, used to pay off overdraft, or paid as a dividend to those that are privy to this?
If only we could have got an easier group, and therefore a decent run. Liverpool are set to pick up £20.3 million from this money that UEFA found down the back of the couch.
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A couple of comments:
We should be very careful when discussing the likely opposition in the third round (or indeed the group stages) of next season's Champions League. We need to bring in some decent new players first, get them to gel as a team, and safely negotiate the preceding qualifying rounds. Then we can confidently discuss what might ensue.
But if we do indeed succeed in reaching the Holy Grail of the group stages, then it would be a shame if Porto drop into pot 2. They are no longer as strong or dangerous as they were under Mourinho, and took until the last couple of weeks of the season to actually guarantee their qualification. IMO they would have been the most beatable of the pot 1 teams. And of course we still have a score to settle there too!
Also, I'm sorry to regress back to the previous line of discussion, but lest it be missed right at the end of the last discussion thread, here it is again:
To everyone bemoaning Jackie's attitude, consider the following scenario...
You are working on a 1 year contract which finishes next month, and your employer has only offered you another 1 year fixed term contract. At the end of that year you are guaranteed a bonus of around £1M. You have around 4 years left before you have to retire, and you have a young family to support.
What do you do?
a) Leave for another job offering a 2 year contract with no £1M bonus.
b) Sign the one year deal and forfeit your bonus.
c) Sign the one year deal, take your bonus, and then look elsewhere for a longer deal offering more stability for you and your family.
I suspect that in the same situation 99% of us would go for (c).
So get off Jackie's back and wish him all the best. It's his prerogative to choose how he runs his on life.
Also, re: Cabbage's comment "Quick to take the fans money"...
Those fans who turned up at Jackie's testimonial did so of their own free will. And let's be honest, a good number of those only turned up to say goodbye to MON and/or to see Henke. If MON had already left and Henke & Lubo hadn't been there, how many fans do you think would have turned up?
Nobody threw these accusations at Henke last year, and he hadn't even earned a testimonial having only served 7 years!
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Paul67,
You wrote:
"Celtic will be seeded all the way to the knockout stages of the Champions League for the first time this season"
Does that mean we will be one of the top 2 seeds in a group if we qualify?
Also, do you think that the pursuit of Derek Riordan means that we have given up hope on Bellamy? I believe Bellamy is key for us to get past the group stage. I think that we are incapable of attracting another player of similar quality.
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Madmitch
I agree we will have more than £10million available without the share issue. In fact I have been saying that here since last August.
There is no point publishing a budget yet, as all the additions have still to hit.
Agree with your sentiment, put the past behind us and get on with building a better Celtic.
Parkheadcumsalford, I know we are looking at one box office signing. This will either be Bellamy or a direct replacement. The rest will be profiled more as well researched players who fit the right profile.
I am led to believe the goalkeeper situation has been sorted.
Awe Naw, the parsimonious board have seen the club lose money every year for the last six seasons. Who are you getting your information from?
TimOTay, The £7million is already accounted for last season and will still not stop us losing money.
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Jim62 : Yes it still has a space for the holder. 16-16 is a bit more symetrical than 15-17. Turkish league winners may now go straight into the groups. Next after them on the list is the Scottish league winners, I was almost going to say we nearly got straight in - still can't get my head round us not being champions !
Anyway I don't suppose it matters how many ties there are, it's the luck of the draw. Could be a stroll like 2 years ago or a nightmare like the year before that.
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sorry Paul. I do not share your optimism. Current squad are well past their sell by date and the rebuilding is starting too late for this season. I reckon we are the weakest of the top seeds and others will be hoping for us in the draw.
Strachan appears to be targetting the SPL and it is interesting that he has so far made no mention of sucess in Europe as a target.
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I find these comments that 'deals are done' frankly preposterous.
Do you really believe that if deals are done it would be posssible to keep them secret for so long.
By all means tell me that deals are in progress but do not insult my intelligence by saying that players are already signed and being held back.
Lawwell's performance over the last couple of days makes me worry about the progress of whatever negotiations are happening.
I've said before there will be no major spending at CP this close season and it's highly unlikely that what we spend will include a big name.
I hope I'm wrong but at this stage I think qualification for the CL will be a big ask regardless of the draw.
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I would be wary of teams that are already a few games into their season when we play them. Whilst we may be short of some match fitness we may also be trying to get a new group of players to gel.
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Bigchipsuk
I feel the need to re-reply to your post:
Again, please steer away from the "stability for you and your family" drivel! JM does not need to work ever again in his life with the money he has. Before more people rant on about stability consider this: If you add the £1m testimonial money (yes I am aware this was for 10 years service) to his £12k a week salary that works out at over £30k a week. More than most earn a year! Therefore in his last year at Celtic he earned the equivelant of what someone on £30k a year would earn in a lifelong career.
I would have choosed to stay at Celtic, perhaps money changes you but if I was already financially not only secure but 'minted' I would be willing to take a pay cut never mind asking for an even longer deal than I had been receiving for the last two years from the club I love.
Get a grip...
And let us move on. This transfixed talk of JM is becoming boring.
Paul
Any info on the keeper situation other than it is sorted. Would I be right in thinking Marshall will more than likely be No.1 next season?
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Paul67,
I asked first? :-) what is your optimism based on?
Can you be more specific as Im not sure what information you are referring too.
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Yes Frank i am with you on that one. The talk of 'done deals' is utter nonsense, and frankly, insulting.
It's all the ususal smoke and mirrors from Celtic Park, and to suggest we have a great chance of making the knockout stages of the CL, when we will have a team of strangers getting to know one another, i fear is wishful thinking.
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lincs,
You say that Wee Gordo seems to be targetting SPL. Can't say that I would come to the same conclusion. As far as I know he has made one public statement since signing on and that was a very optimistic one.
If the Polish striker is more than a rumour and we land him, I think he will be known as "Magic". I have a Polish friend of the same first name and thats what he is known as.
Regarding the CL qualifiers whoever we get will be tricky. Just as we have done before, some other teams will punch above their weight. The other factor is how well and quickly our "new" team gells.
Paul, I agreee we may have a better chance than ever of getting to the second stages, but I would also say (for the above reasons)the banana skin is bigger than ever as well...would you agree?
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Paul,
I'd love to share your optimism, but I can't. The way we played toward the end of the season was awful.
Qualifying for the group would be an achievement. At the moment, Everton would murder us (1-0 and 0-0)!
Also, I disagree about your point about wide Vs quick signings. We need to be quick are all the decent Bosman's will have been snapped up.
It really looks like our hope that WGS would hit the ground running was false.
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Done deals is nonsense. Also it's very likely we'll hear of signings before they are actually done deals. How many transfers take place these days without the media reporting interest, signing talks, medicals etc
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/t/tottenham_hotspur/4095680.stm
Lennon signs for Spurs
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Awe Naw, Behave!!! You really had me going there!
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Malone19, with respect, your maths is a bit dodgy, as is your assumption that JM has been on £12K pw for his entire 10 years at CP. But I accept that some people feel betrayed by the circumstances of his departure, and we are all entitled to our opinions.
(Incidentally, Craig Bellamy will probably exceed JM's career earnings in the next 4 years alone.)
It's a great thing, this freedom of choice!
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Have to agree with Frank, Frankie and Ardoch. Secret done deals does not sound feasible in today's media / agent climate. Friday is looming like D-Day. If nothing happens on Friday I fear very great unrest. And that's just in my house.
Also fear that WGS is under too much pressure in his first season already given Paul's post. Our manager of choice has left. WGS walks in to rebuild from a decimated squad. Taking a step back surely the SPL and CL group stage is a ligitimate target? CL last 16 a year down the line if we are to be fair to him. Remember we took him on knowing that he has no European experience to speak of in management.
Interested to know others expectations.
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last word on Jackie from me (maybe).................
Yes, we lost a good player, but that's all, a good player.
He was not a world class or outstanding player for us.
I am lead to believe that Jackie was on 12K per week, i think that's ok money.
Dose anyone think he was worth 15/20K per week? I can put my hand on my heart and say NO.
We can pay that kind of money for a younger, quicker and better player.
We have spent big on wages before (don't think i need to name players) for sitting on the bench and it's time to stop.
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Paul67
How much above a net spend of £10mill are you currently thinking?
£20mill?
£15mill?
I can't see us being able to support a cash outflow on players above £7mill this year on a carryover budget, consequently I think £10-11mill is where its at.
£10mill on players means a further £2mill on agents / signing on fees.
Player transfer fees have to be paid in full 2 years after the contract is signed. The staging of the fee payment within this rule is a matter for the two clubs?
The current hassle @ Rankers over the Greek CB shows a deal that was heavily back loaded. 40% of the fee is due one day before the two year deadline.
Consequently in a 4 year deal, the cash is paid up front over the maximum of a 2 year period while the value of the player is run down across the term of the contract. Amortisation is a charge on the books against the value of the player, it does not represent money physically leaving the club.
Agents and signing on fees are treated as an expense booked in the year that they happen?
I'm not sure about this as some teams link the player element to a loyalty bonus paid annually as long as they are still with the club. Is this instead of a signing on fee or in addition to it?
Cash outgoings possible this year = £7mill. This is made up three components:
£2.5mill extra in the NIKE deal
£2.5mill spent last year on loan fees and signing on fees carried over as a non recurring expense.
£2.0mill used to reduce debt last year.
I am assuming a carryover budget with no need to reduce debt.
Outgoings =
2005/6 = £5 mill in transfer fees and £2mill in expenses.
2006/7 = £5mill in transfer fees
This will leave thin pickings for next year but needs must.
All these figures are informed conjecture of the type that the bookies love. Consequently only for discussion.
The spend could be bigger if debt levels could be increased, we paid back another £2mill the previous year so that could be added in. Also the dividends could be re-invested to provide another £2.5mill of cash. The negative in all this is the lack of Eufa cup cash which I have optimistically set this aside as a wash with inflation and ancillary income.
Main point in all this is that a full time board and an ambitious manager can deliver "surprise and delight" in making the revenues go further.
Pulling a few rabbits out of a hat!
Signings from leftfield that make you look twice!
Headlines the "Laptop Loyal" can't stomach!
That is what we need, the club suits to really earn their keep. They have to work to a much higher level generating a much bigger player spend than a mere salaryman can hack together in his lunch break before the canteen closes.
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Wee Jackie IMO has been shafted treated with disrespect due to his loyalty he’ll sign anyway I can just hear the boardroom lackies cry no need to worry. Treated shabbily and IMO should have been offered a contract as soon as WGS said he wanted to keep him. The board should have taken note of WGS comments and done their job.
Seems to be a running theme now of Lawell mismanagement of the contract situations. Seems to call a lot of them wrong. BBJ and Bobo being perfect examples those two getting highly lucrative extensions in Jan and one can still walk away for nothing.
Lawell is not getting us value for money, maybe time for a director of football to come in and handle these things, someone who knows about football.
After slagging Jackie yesterday about Wolves I feel we have forced him into making a genuine decision he will regret. He has lower his standard and if he had played hardball and waited he would have got the deal he deserved. Lot more at CP have given less than him but earn more.
The way we have treated him and reeks of the same way the old guard treated Burn’s, Grant etc they will sign for peanuts cause of the love of the club.
We are playing into the huns hands and unless there are 6 or 7 rabbits to get pulled out the hat then WGS is already 1-0 down.
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Whilst it is highly unlikely that there are deals that have actually been completed, does anyone think that Nike may have asked the club to wait until 1 July to unveil signings. The majority of the donkey work could be done before then.
After all, if any new signings are paraded in a blaze of publicity at the moment then it would have to be the old Umbro strip for contractual reasons that they would have to wear.
This would also coincide with the players going back to training.
Zurawski on Polish TV anyone?
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One or two hysterical reactions on here at the slow progress of things. Take a wee step back from all the guff we're getting fed from the likes of the Daily Record & Radio Clyde. Go for a pint after work & relax - there's 5 players already signed - a goalkeeper, upson, bellamy, hartley & diamond
BTW - McNamara has a cheek. After earning a good living out of Celtic & getting a nice testimonial, his outburst ranks alongside Viduka, Cadete & co - poor show Jackie
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blantyre kev
in truth at this particular moment my expectations are not great, although this is only based on the current situation. i fear if replacements are not in place soon we may have to look forward to a place in the league stages of the Uefa cup. league wise, can we really get any worse than last seasons debacle?? the DOB's wont be much better (and they were near their best) than last so the league will again be close on current situation.
if the right player are signed and we gel as a team i dont see us having a probelm in the league and would imagine our usual foray in CL group 1 will end in a Uefa place after coming 3rd.
PS. i for one cant wait to get behind the bhoys next season no matter who is there for us and hope everyone will agree that the team need our backing like times of old and make CP was a place to be feared and intimidated by visiting teams
hail hail
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BlantyreKev
I never once said he was on that sort of money for 10 years. However, even if he was only on £10 per week last season bonuses wouls have made up another few thousand. In any case, my point is still valid. JM is a multi-millionaire, security is not a problem and the only reasons for moving comes down to either guarenteed football next season or greed (not that I'm saying this is bad on his part as it is the money that drives most people).
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From an earlier blog but worth repeating. When MON arrived when did he reveal his first signing? Well into July I believe.
And on another note. What is so unbelievable about the fans not knowing that someone has signed on the dotted line? We have been linked to dozens of players. The only way we might know that someone has signed is if CFC, the player or representatives say so. Or is the boardroom at CP bugged? We already know that our red tops print utter bull.
I for one believe that there will be at least four signings, probably more. I will judge them when I see them in a Celtic shirt, not on whether I have heard of them,their age or their price tag. (Lubo??-probably in the top half dozen players I have seen grace the hoops in the last thirty years)
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Thanks Rob, appreciated.
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malone, que?
i fear you are replying to another mail.
any thoughts on fair expectations of WGS?
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Well said TimOTay - there is no way Nike would be happy about new signings being paraded in the old Umbro top.
Patience fellow readers, patience. I am shocked at the amount of players that we are going to need to get in before the start of the season but not too worried. I am happy thinking about the shape WGS is going to get these people into - by all accounts he rates fitness above everything else. Having the manager there at every training session will also be a bonus - we may see less players being played out of position next season.
My only worry is how BBJ is going to cope with the increased fitness regime. Maybe the rumours ARE true and he IS off to West Ham.
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Trig, yes we will be seeded no. 2 in the group if we qualify. Riordan is not a replacement for Bellamy.
Malone19, Marshall will be 2nd choice keeper next season.
Awe Naw, my optimism is based on sound information. Lets wait and see.
Canajunbhoy, I never seen the Basel or Shakhtar banana skins coming, so quite possibly.
Madmitch, agents fees and signing-on fees are amortised along with the transfer fees. I am going to let your budget sit for now as there are too many variables at the moment. Suffice to say there will be plenty of budget if the clearout is a thorough as it could be.
TomOTay, one more time, Nike have nothing to do with the delay. Celtic have agreed deals for two players. The first player to be registered will be a big name.
On the subject of BBJ, I believe he will be sold if the signings go to plan.
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Cambuslangisreality
Be grateful if you could enlighten us all as to why these "signings" have not been announced.
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Can't imagine of we sign this Polish striker that he will be called 'magic' as posted earlier. He will be called 'shuggy' and he'll have to like it.
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Any new signings would not be paraded in Umbro outfits. There is nothing to stop Celtic having there player pictured in Nike outfits (see the official site for cases of that already). We are not able to seel the Nike kit until the 1st, but that will have nothing to do with the timing of any announcements.
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Paul, when is the deadline for registering players for the Champions League?
If we can offload BBJ to WHU for £2M then I think we should go for it, especially if we can get a striker in with some aerial ability, as well as skilful feet and an eye for opportunist goals. Does Magic Zurawski fit the bill?
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TimoTay, Paul
It does not take a great leap to assume that signings would be better once the new strip was on sale although it is a bit of a catch-22.
If signings are held back during this time of growing discontent then sales of new replics jerseys will be the first measurable metric. Aside from advanced orders, player signings or exogenous events (seville) have the single most powerful positive effect on sales.
Even bellamy signing (which i still doubt having been told so in person) would not have a huge positive effect as he is not a new entity. Much of his box office appeal has been used up and certainly lost in Motherwell.
Signing an irish international would bring significant benefits as I am sure you can all imagine.
McStay
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BigChips, we already have a striker with arial ability, and with a bit of luck Sutton won't be played out of position any longer.
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Can they not just be paraded in suits or casual clothes if this is the case .....?
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From the Official Site:
Gordon Strachan today dismissed claims that Jackie McNamara’s move to Wolves was prompted by a failure on his or the board’s part to make the player feel wanted at Celtic Park.
In an exclusive and revealing interview with the Celtic website, the new Hoops boss spoke of his surprise and disappointment at McNamara’s decision to reject an offer over two years on substantially increased terms.
The end result, of course, is that the former Celtic captain will now be playing Championship football at Molineux next season, an outcome which Strachan insists cannot be attributed to any lack of desire to keep the 31-year-old in the hoops.
Asked about McNamara’s claims that he had been left feeling unwanted, he said: “That couldn’t be further from the truth. In fact, Jackie was the first player I spoke to face-to-face after arriving here, and I made it clear not only that I wanted him at the club, but also what I wanted and expected from him over the next couple of seasons.
But, while it’s disappointing that the outcome isn’t what we would have wished, it’s not fair to say that Jackie wasn’t wanted here. He was more than wanted.”
Keen to reject this particular allegation, Strachan was equally anxious to quell suggestions that, after stating so publicly that he intended retaining McNamara’s services, he feels let down that the club weren’t able to satisfy this desire.
His only disappointment, in fact, is with the player’s agent, whom, he revealed, never expressed dissatisfaction with the negotiations.
Said Strachan: “I feel we did what we could in the circumstances and I’ve no problems with the way Peter and the club handled it all.
“There was negotiating taking place, but that’s only to be expected. After all, if every player who came in got exactly what he demanded, all hell would break loose.
“But everything appeared to be progressing quite well in the discussions until, all of a sudden, we got a call on Monday to say that, if Jackie didn’t get what he wanted by five o’clock, he’d be off. That was an unexpected development and I must say that, in all the years I’ve had in management, I can’t ever remember a player setting a deadline like that.
“But we reacted to it, even though squeezing the timescale was far from ideal, and agreed before the deadline to give him an increased offer. I thought that was it done, but then his agent came back asking for a lot more. Then we got a call at six o’clock on Monday to say that Jackie would be signing for Wolves.
“That’s obviously what’s since happened and it goes without saying that I’m disappointed because he was very much part of my plans here. But it’s his decision and it’s one he’ll have to live with.
“Although we are disappointed that Jackie has left Celtic, I would like to say that we do wish him well for the future at Wolves.”
This was a sentiment shared by the club’s Chief Executive, Peter Lawwell, who nevertheless hit back at the assertion that it was only as McNamara was en route to Wolverhampton that Celtic upped their offer.
He told the Celtic website: “Reports today suggesting that Celtic had called Jackie to make some sort of offer to increase his money at the last minute are complete nonsense.
“I did speak to Jackie yesterday but purely to confirm Celtic’s position and Jackie’s understanding of it. Although we are disappointed to lose Jackie, the club is satisfied with the way in which it handled negotiations.
“I must stress though that, despite Jackie leaving, I would sincerely like to thank him for the ten years' service he has given to the club. Jackie is a great lad and we do wish him well for the future.”
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Looks like Jackies telling porkie pies .... or is it just sour grapes because he didnt get the contract he wanted ...?
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Good thinking shamrock_stu - I was thinking they could wheel out that huge club crest that they photographed Larsson with when he signed. I've not seen it used since - surely a waste of money?
One of my hopes for the new season is that they get rid of that yellow bin which usually sits between the dug-out and the entrance to the tunnel.
BTW I see Henrik is back to his old ways - scored twice and set up another in Barcas 2nd friendly over in Japan.
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Sounds like Mr Jackson is most to blame out of all this! Damn agents!
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Larsson7: "if the right player are signed and we gel as a team i dont see us having a probelm in the league and would imagine our usual foray in CL group 1 will end in a Uefa place after coming 3rd."
Is there not a change in the rules this year that means a UEFA Cup parachute is no longer available for 3rd place, or even that failure in the CL qualifiers does not lead to a UEFA Cup spot? Maybe someone can confirm either way...
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This business about not being able to see the Nike kit until the 1st of July...
On the official website Neil Lennon is stood there proudly sporting the new Nike kit.
So what's the difference between contracted players being pictured in the new kit on the club website and newly contracted players being pictured in the new kit on chip-wrappers?
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'Sounds like Mr Jackson is most to blame out of all this!'
That's right lets all blame Michael Jackson!
Leave the guy alone...he's misunderstood.
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The group winners and runners-up will advance to the knock-out stage of the competition, with the eight third-placed teams moving to the UEFA Cup third round, while the eight fourth-placed teams will be eliminated.
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computergeeekjohn.................I wonder if D Jackson will come out and say anything? I would like to ask him.........
How much money did he make from Jackie moving?
How much money would he make if Jackie stayed?
That's agents for you
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Footnote on Official Site, saying to check back later regarding news of new signings.
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Tom64 - no offence meant, didn't realise he was such an idol to you ;-)
The official site is requesting us to come back later this afternoon for word from Strachan and Lawell on new signings!
Hopefully this will not be of the "yes, we need to make some signings" variety!
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Hail Hail!
Here are my thoughts on Jackie and the quality of the squad. Supporters of all clubs tend to overestimate the talent of their own team's players. This is a natural thing because we see them play the most and we want them to do well.
WGS has had the unbiased view of our team and surely has his own opinions as to the individual players abilities. He also knows that throwing out the team captain would not be well received by the support or the bhoys.
I believe that WGS was sincere when he stated that he wanted to resign both Jackie and Lennon...at his price in order to fit in his budget. I assure you that WGS has a team budget identified on a position by position basis.
Jackie has been a great player but he is not a "difference maker". Does anybody really think that opposing managers say, "We must control Jackie to be successful against Celtic." As I see it Bellamy, Petrov and Sutton are the only ones that fit in that catagory. Maybe Beattie can join this rank next season.
We need more "difference makers" if we want to excel in the European Cup, excuse me, Champions League. C'mon Gordon! Bring us some new bhoys!
The future's bright it's green and white!
Honeybhoy
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Tom and Gerry (sory couldn't resist), I am told that wages were not the problem but a demand for a signing on fee similar to that given to thompson/hartson/sutton. Having just had a testimonial, the board felt it was perhaps a bit much to ask for a substantial 6 figure payment on a 2 year deal. Wolves are paying a substantial signing on fee. Go figure.
McStay
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I would think there would be some rules or laws to be followed parading new players in a strip which is not being released yet. I am not sure about this at all but I would think players appearing in yet to be released strips is only only for promotional purposes only. Yet saying this I suppose new signings could be seen to be promoting the strip as well. Maybe there is certain constraints that must be followed? Paul do you know anything of this?
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I agree that with Ginger Prince's assertion that we already have a striker with aerial ability in Chris Sutton. But, I don't think that Sutty, at his age, can be relied on as the main striker, who will bag 30+ goals over the season. He is great supporting a spearhead attacker in a supplying role, perhaps sitting just behind a front two, but I fear we would be asking too much to expect him to keep pace with Bellamy for 90 minutes in every one of our 50+ games through the season.
I would therefore suggest that a younger and quicker player would be better to partner Bellamy, with Sutty playing a supporting role. Or could it be that we see him drafted in to help sort out the defensive situation?
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BradBhoy -
'Tom64 - no offence meant, didn't realise he was such an idol to you ;-)'
I humbly apologise for that pitiful attempt at a joke. Shoot me now.
Taxi...
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At 2:31 PM, OttoKaiser said…
Good thinking shamrock_stu - I was thinking they could wheel out that huge club crest that they photographed Larsson with when he signed. I've not seen it used since - surely a waste of money?
I believe that shortly after the photo shoot with Henke the crest was dropped and broke. Then some numtpy at PH stupidly sold it to the Daily Retard and they've been making as much use of it as they can!
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Great_No_8 McStay You don't happen, by chance, to be the same guy spotted in Asda Linwood?
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There is a serious reservation about the way in which we handle transfers, past experiences highlight this significantly. Not losing sleep over the departure of many of the older and underachievers in the squad. There is a grave danger of supposition here, we are waiting for ONE box office signing, what category does that leave the rest of the other signing targets? There is not guarantee that these targets will be CEltic players, given past history, its not bloody likely either. If someone has been signed but is not box office then should we be pleased, there is an inference that we will be improving the quality of the side significantly, but the "two deals already done" wont be setting the heather on fire, both to the supporters and the meeja. Having optimism about possible signings is one thing, but the summer transfer window in previous years has taught us that we wont come close in attracting the players we would all like to see at Celtic Park, the longer it goes on the less likely it will be, better players will be holding out for better deals. Take Shalke 04, they've already made about 4 signings in preparation for the Champions league qualifiers, and not just the usual haddies we have been linked with, and i'll bet they wont be paying more than we would be prepared to pay (better league i know - but i thought players were only in it for the money these days). As ever Celtic are waisting time,if deals are done then let us know - its not such a big ask.
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Again, I said previously on the subject of losing JM that the board will probably have to bring the inroduction of new signings forward because of the dissapointment of losing Jackie. Let's hope that 1) signings have not been rushed and 2) that any signings made do not recieve bad PR. This is on the basis that there are going to be signings announced. Hopefully if they were simply going to say signings are on their way they would not have said look later for more info as this could ignite the bad PR brigade. Adding it on to the JM interview would be good PR but releasing this info seperately as if it is big news IMO is a perfect example of why the PR at the club needs improving.
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Dont Panic!
The following clubs are yet to sign a player:
Villa,Blackburn,Bolton,Suderland,
Liverpool,Man City,Newcastle & West Brom.
Does anyone believe because the above have done nothing yet that this will remain to be the case, of course not.
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bigChips, I agree that Sutton is capable of "filling in" the roles you mention, but I'm hoping that with the departure of MON thet we'll no longer see square pegs in round holes.
IMO Sutton's best season was up front alongside Henrik. He'll not require an awful amount of pace, if he's alongside Bellamy.
I'd love to see him given another season up front, I definitely think he's got all BBJ's qualities...and some.
Paul - the only reason I can see Celtic keeping some signings upder wraps is if they want to announce the "big name" first, and this won't be until either Bellamy signs or AN Other.
But I do agree with most people here that in the information age it's virtually impossible to keep these things quiet.
No only would Celtic and the player need to keep stoom, but the selling club and the players agent/family also. Too much to ask.
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On the post made earlier on whether 'Magic' is an aerial threat - I have never seen him play as far as I know but in his discriptions he certainly is a goalscorer and has a good threat in the air. Whether or not he is skillful or pacey I do not know.
Can anyone enlighten me?
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At 2:47 PM, Great_No_8......good one :-)........ so he was wanting a big chunk of money up front....do think DJ made a good chunk from Jackie going to another club..........I thought other teams wanted to talk to him?
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Ardoch, I removed your last post on language grounds. Family site remember.
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Appologies Paul, sorry you are right of course.
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Corporal Jones,
Parker signed for Newcastle. £6.5M
Another fabled 'target' blown out the water.
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Heres hoping the rebuilding process is well underway, and news will be a bit more forthcoming in the not so distant future. "Bhoys Close in on signings" is the headline running on the official site, I suspect Friday will be a good day for us....!
As i posted on the end of the last thread One last point Malone19, whilst i agree with you that JMc is far from a poor man and stability for him and his family is the least of his worries. I'd just like to point out that he didn't make any money from his testimonial, it was all donated to charity.
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Gerry, as you would expect agents make more money from players moving clubs than from them signing new deals at existing clubs. However, they make less when a player moves as a bosman as they are only entitled to what the player owes them for brokering the deal. Unless of course a club pays a goodwill fee for 'smoothing the waters' which has happened.
Clubs have increasingly used agents on the buy side to broker deals with bosmans ahead of time however this strategy is dangerous as clubs can be gazumped when relying on an external to clinch deals.
Here is an intersting stat I have been told - during the close season, the average premiership manager has 12 new players per week offered to him by agents or those proposing to be such.
McStay
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While I would love to see Zurawski come to CP I think the other two guys that Gordo was looking at offer solutions to problems.
Particulary the Right Back with dreams of being an attacking midfielder.
I think our need in defense is greater than up front.
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Shamrock Stu: You are right (just checked UEFA site) but I am certain I heard that wrong info on the radio....
Re: Hartson debate. I would say that we have seen the best of BBJ, and he isn't going to get fitter or leaner, is he? Pace is what we need to support Sutton, and if West Ham are ready to pay even 1 million for him, we should take it. I know many wouldn't agree, but if it was a toss up between Riordan and Hartson, i would take Riordan, and it IS a toss-up because Riordan would cost less than we would get for Hartson. Doesn't mean we don't go after other strikers (eg Magic, Bellamy) or continue to use Beattie. Any team needs 4-5 class strikers.
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Hi Celticbhoy
As paul will confirm, I am a simple observer who happens to hear ans see things from different sources at a different times. I have been a football analyst in the past and continue an avid interest in the political and financial affairs of football clubs. On other forums, I post as a fan whereas here I appreciate the quality of the debate and like to contribute in kind.
Football: Fans, Philanthropists and Financiers was something I wrote a while back but I doubt I have any electronic copies anywhere.
I used talk a bit with guys like Bill Gerrard and David Conn - those lads know their stuff when it comes to the ins and outs of the football world.
McStay
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This is possible however, that was down to the player (shows even further that he doesn't need more money). However I believe one poster claimed only half went to charity. I do not know the details of this at all so I cannot comment. But it is simply fans being over sentimental when they go on about his family. JM went for the money option. It is as simple as that. (I don't think he could even argue against that)
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cheers kev, must be breaking news but then again I had been typing since this morning. Only one finger you see, lost the rest in the war!
The fact still remains that many clubs have made little or no signings.
Lets give it until pre-season training starts before pressing the panic button, assuming our nerves are up to the wait.
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In response to comments re. the CL qualifiers and Group Stage seedings, the following comes directly from Uefa.com and Bert Kassies website which has proven to be very reliable over the last 3-4 yrs.
It shows that we WILL be in Pot 2 seedings and all other seedings. It is based upon the assumption that all those in the qualifying rounds will make it to the group stages - obviously there is the chance that some seeds will be KO'd but that wont affect us as long as we qualify.
The number shown after each team is the the current points co-efficient that each team has under Uefa's 5yr system.
I have also shown the group stage format and the dates for each game(s)
I hope you can follow it without too much difficulty:
Qualifying round 2
seeded
1 Liverpool Eng 115,864 C Q1
2 Celtic Sco 63,477 C Q2
3 Anderlecht Bel 47,477 C Q2
4 Dynamo Kyiv Ukr 40,200 C Q2
5 Lokomotiv Moskva Rus 38,470 C Q2
6 Partizan Ser 30,012 C Q2
7 M. Haifa Isr 21,218 C Q2
8 Steaua Rom 20,101 C Q2
9 Brøndby Den 19,676 C Q2
10 Rapid Wien Aus 15,209 C Q2
11 CSKA Sofia Bul 15,118 C Q2
12 Debrecen Hun 14,389 C Q2
13 Trabzonspor Tur 12,872 C Q2
14 Vålerenga Nor 11,666 C Q2
unseeded
15 Hajduk Split Cro 10,981 C Q2
16 Thun Swi 6,889 C Q2
17 Malmö Swe 5,076 C Q2
18 Artmedia Svk 4,849 C Q1
19 Anorthosis Cyp 4,694 C Q1
20 Gorica Slo 4,189 C Q1
21 Dinamo Tbilisi Geo 4,034 C Q1
22 Haka Fin 3,158 C Q1
23 Hafnarfjördur Ice 2,594 C Q1
24 Shelbourne Ire 2,374 C Q1
25 Zrinjski Bos 2,364 C Q1
26 Skonto Lat 2,199 C Q1
27 Sheriff Mol 2,089 C Q1
28 Kaunas Lit 1,759 C Q1
Qualifying round 3
seeded
1 Liverpool Eng 115,864 C Q1
2 Man. United Eng 110,864 C Q3
3 Internazionale Ita 101,191 C Q3
4 Panathinaikos Gre 70,714 C Q3
5 Celtic Sco 63,477 C Q2
6 Villarreal Spa 58,326 C Q3
7 Sporting Por 55,740 C Q3
8 Monaco Fra 53,325 C Q3
9 Ajax Net 52,144 C Q3
10 Club Brugge Bel 50,477 C Q3
11 Anderlecht Bel 47,477 C Q2
12 Rangers Sco 40,477 C Q3
13 Dynamo Kyiv Ukr 40,200 C Q2
14 Bremen Ger 40,166 C Q3
15 Lokomotiv Moskva Rus 38,470 C Q2
16 Rosenborg Nor 36,666 C Q3
unseeded
17 Slavia Praag Cze 35,223 C Q3
18 Betis Spa 34,326 C Q3
19 Basel Swi 33,889 C Q3
20 Wisla Pol 32,930 C Q3
21 Udinese Ita 30,191 C Q3
22 Partizan Ser 30,012 C Q2
23 Shakhtar Ukr 28,200 C Q3
24 M. Haifa Isr 21,218 C Q2
25 Everton Eng 20,864 C Q3
26 Steaua Rom 20,101 C Q2
27 Brøndby Den 19,676 C Q2
28 Rapid Wien Aus 15,209 C Q2
29 CSKA Sofia Bul 15,118 C Q2
30 Debrecen Hun 14,389 C Q2
31 Trabzonspor Tur 12,872 C Q2
32 Vålerenga Nor 11,666 C Q2
Round 1
Pot A
1 Liverpool Eng 115,864 C Q1
2 Real Madrid Spa 131,326 C 1
3 Milan Ita 121,191 C 1
4 Barcelona Spa 117,326 C 1
5 Man. United Eng 110,864 C Q3
6 Internazionale Ita 101,191 C Q3
7 Bayern Ger 97,166 C 1
8 Arsenal Eng 93,864 C 1
Pot B
9 Porto Por 93,740 C 1
10 Juventus Ita 93,191 C 1
11 PSV Net 84,144 C 1
12 Lyon Fra 81,325 C 1
13 Panathinaikos Gre 70,714 C Q3
14 Chelsea Eng 68,864 C 1
15 Celtic Sco 63,477 C Q2
16 Villarreal Spa 58,326 C Q3
Pot C
17 Sporting Por 55,740 C Q3
18 Monaco Fra 53,325 C Q3
19 Ajax Net 52,144 C Q3
20 Club Brugge Bel 50,477 C Q3
21 Anderlecht Bel 47,477 C Q2
22 Olympiacos Gre 46,714 C 1
23 Schalke Ger 44,166 C 1
24 Sparta Cze 43,223 C 1
Pot D
25 Lille Fra 41,325 C 1
26 Rangers Sco 40,477 C Q3
27 Dynamo Kyiv Ukr 40,200 C Q2
28 Bremen Ger 40,166 C Q3
29 Lokomotiv Moskva Rus 38,470 C Q2
30 Benfica Por 36,740 C 1
31 Rosenborg Nor 36,666 C Q3
32 Fenerbahçe Tur 23,872 C 1
CL Group Stage 1
Matchday 1: Pot 2 team v Pot 3 team & Pot 4 team v Pot 1 team – 13th/14th Sept
Matchday 2: 1 v 2 & 3 v 4 – 27th/28th Sept
Matchday 3: 3 v 1 & 2 v 4 – 18th/19th Oct
Matchday 4: 1 v 3 & 4 v 2 – 1st/2nd Nov
Matchday 5: 3 v 2 & 1 v 4 – 22nd/23rd Nov
Matchday 6: 2 v1 & 4 v 3 – 6th/7th Dec
HAIL! HAIL!
CB
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Taken for the offical website:
From the Official Site...
`Help is on the way. That was the message from Celtic Park today as Gordon Strachan and Peter Lawwell sought to assure supporters that the club’s pursuit of prospective signings will bear fruit sooner rather than later.
Lawwell, the club’s Chief Executive, recognises that the need for squad reinforcement has only been heightened by the recent departures of Rab Douglas, Jackie McNamara, Momo Sylla and Paul Lambert, and he told the Celtic website that he hopes to land at least one of Strachan’s transfer targets “in the near future.”He said: “In terms of new players coming to Celtic, Gordon has a number of targets that he is currently working on and we are hopeful that we will have some news on this front in the near future. “Gordon will receive every support from the board as we try to improve the squad for the start of next season. With regards to the money which was set aside in terms of Jackie’s contract, clearly this will be released for other new players.”
Though hardly unexpected, this news will doubtless ease Strachan’s disappointment at losing McNamara, though the Celtic boss remains adamant that, while bolstering his increasingly threadbare squad is the top priority of all at Celtic Park, experience has taught him to avoid rushing hurriedly and injudiciously into the transfer market “What I’ve learned in my time in management is not to rush things in that respect,” he said. “If I’m being honest, I’ve probably been guilty of that on couple of occasions and have ended up regretting it.“Here, I intend taking my time. But we’re certainly active on the transfer side of things, and I’m working hard to bring the best players I possibly can to this club.”'
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As my old granny used to say "patience is a virtue". That used to really infuriate me, however I have learned that value of this over the past few years with regards to Celtic. Remember how protracted the signing of Henrik was? We don't do quick signings, and I think we are the better for it. Look accross the other side of middle earth to the ranks of Mordor. How many quick signings from them have backfired over the past ten years? Prodan? Ended up more Prozak. Still brings a smile.
As for the numerous calls for better PR from Celtic, can I ask for who's benefit. We don't believe everything we read in the papers, do we? A cracked crest on the back page of the Daily Ranker is used to sell papers to Rankers fans not us. By us getting wound up over this we are playing right into their hands.
The initial signings might not turn out to be household names, but how many of us had heard of Lubo, Henrik or even Petrov.
If you sign them they will come.
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At 3:00 PM, malone19 said…
On the post made earlier on whether 'Magic' is an aerial threat - I have never seen him play as far as I know but in his discriptions he certainly is a goalscorer and has a good threat in the air. Whether or not he is skillful or pacey I do not know.
Can anyone enlighten me?
Cant find a specfic breakdown of his goal (shots-to-headers ratio) but in the past 5 years he's scored 93 goals in 132 games.
He still has 3 matches to play in this season's league so he could get close to the Maciej 100!!
He's also been the top scorer in the Polish league for the past 4 seasons and will add a fifth with this seasons 22 goal.
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In follow-up to my earlier post, the draw for the 1st and 2nd round CL qualifiers will take place at 1100 on Fri 24th June.
HAIL! HAIL!
CB
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Cambuslangisareality...an unusually bold statement with names included coming from you today... Are we looking at a press conference with everyone together?
Are we still looking for others?
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Re better PR.
Having poor PR at the club has a number of negative sides to it. One being the type of reaction from the fans when the Villareal supporters were over. Maybe this was down to the mass media and some of their reports around that time; all the more reason to have better relations with the press. Another reason is that bad PR could effect potential sponsorship. Shareprices etc. could be indirectly effected by a constant flow of negative news. Everything down to fans happiness can be related to PR and that is why it is important to improve our current way of dealing (or not dealing) with the media in what we say to them and our actions on and off the park.
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THEBALDEGO
JMc kept half his proceed`s from the testimonial. Gave 1/4 to cancer charity, the one his mother passed away with. The other 1/4 to the fund set up for player`s that need to retire from the game through injury`s or the like.
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The early rounds will not be easy to get through in the CL, the only possible advantage being there is no tour of America this pre- season. But if we go out, there is the UEFA cup and if we go out of that then we need to win the SPL.
European sucess is so much more important than domestic success. I think Liverpool fans feel the same way.
Real Betis Balompie are indeed to be avoided. The day after their cup final win last weekend there was an article in a Madrid sports daily "AS" from their Andalucian correspondent saying that Betis supporters had found inspiration from the Celtic fans who had behaved so marvellously in 2003 in their city. Any praise for foreign clubs is praise indeed from the Spanish. But if we do get Betis, having got through the first round, at least it would be a huge event in European football. The Betis slogan, which transmits their loyalty above all else is ..."Betis , manque pierde"......roughly translated as "Betis, even if we lose"
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Great_No_8
Thanks for the reply and all the informed posts you put I enjoy reading them.
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JackD appreciate the informed reply, I'm just off to get the Brown sauce for my humble pie.
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I've always imagined humble pie to be sweet.....
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Thanks Celticbhoy, I shall continue to pass on that which I believe to be of interest to the more informed CQN crowd.
I approached Celtic a few years ago with a proposal to conduct an econometric study into the effect of results on attendances at proceeeding football matches. Todays debate has got me thinking that something similar could be done in terms of transfers and their effect on merchandise. I'll give it some more thought.
As an aside, there is a group who track critical reviews of plays in Londons west end. These reviews are grouped according to positive or negative and then gate receipts are placed against the timing of said reviews. The upshot is that a bad review in one of the big four papers can cost a new show millions in ticket sales. I wonder if something similar could be done in terms of the scottish/uk press and the effect on sales of tickets and merhchandise for the old firm.
McStay
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From the Beeb:
Meanwhile, Strachan is in Poland to watch Wisla Krakow trio Maciej Zurawski, Tomasz Klos and Marcin Baszcyzinski in cup semi-final action.
BBC Sport understands Strachan is keen on £2m-rated international striker Zurawski, along with defenders Klos and Baszcyzinski.
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Its not as sweet as you'd think, lol. As someone who likes to think he's well enough informed it has a bit of a sour taste!
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can someone tell me what job is Brian Wilson to play for us?
is it to improve our PR?
also......how many of the board live in Scotland?
also..... have we replaced our contract manger?
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The Bald Ego
Brown sauce it is then!!
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I heard tell that the original Humble Pie was made from the bits of coos that the gentry did not want.
So a Celtic Humble Pie would contain Brian Quinn, Fernadez....
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Great_No_8 What was Celtics response? I have thought that there is a Phd in the sociology of supporters websites.
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The BBJ or Riordan debate is an interesting one. Why not Maloney or Riordan, or Beattie or Riordan.
BBJ was last season top scorer but for me he never cut it at CL level and his recently struck deal was one that I cringed at along with Bobo´s. For me these two are not CL calibre ... both were not far away but have been found out at that level the last two years.
If I had a choice I´d pick Beattie and Mc Geadie over Maloney.
What about Wallace is he ready to take the step up.
Im an expat and is there any young Bhoys out there who are genuinely ready to make the step up.
I was impressed with the lad macmanus in Ukraine but never saw him again ?
And what about Mc Glinchey ?
I´d love to see Kennedy return and take off where he left off and Mc Geadie make the shirt his own
Save us some money and give TB the last laugh.
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Are all 3 Polish stars not late 20's early 30's ? Is this the age group we should be chasing?
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Nothing like being Optimistic - a few weeks back we couldn't see off Motherwell to win the SPL, then we lose our esteemed manager, team captain, goalie, no new signings, dodgy board, etc, and here we are discussing getting to the final stages of next years Champions League. Should we not be waking up, smelling the coffee, keeping it real and getting a grip?
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Paul67
I think you make a very valid point about spending wisely, not quickly.
However, I hope we also avoid the last minute panic buy as well.
Looking at Celtic's defense right now, especially on the left, this could become a real worry.
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My missus makes me eat humble pie all the time, and to be quite frank Im fed up with it. Think its high time she left me :-)
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Lhads,
I don't think you want the recipe for humble pie.
The dish called humble pie was a pie made of the inferior parts of the deer. These inferior parts, or humbles, may have been the kidneys, intestines, heart, or liver. They were boiled until tender, and mixed with suet, apples, currants, sugar, salt, and spices such as mace, cloves, and nutmeg. This delectable was originally eaten by hunters (who were at one time respectable members of society), but later it became a common food of servants. Of course, the higher classes traditionally dined on venison (deer meat). The English brought the dish to America, where venison was plentiful, and recipes for it appear in cookbooks right up to the 19th century. Many dishes used humbles from animals other than deer: "burseu" was made by parboiling pig viscera in wine.
Almost always used in the plural, this term for animal viscera has gone through several spellings over time. Numbles/nombles was the original (early 14th century) spelling. This was borrowed from Middle French nombles, meaning 'loin of veal; fillet of beef or venison'. The French is an alteration of Latin lumbulus, meaning 'a little loin'. In the 15th century, the English spelling umbles is first recorded; the spelling humbles first appears in the late 16th century. It's likely that the "umble" spelling arose from the mistaken word division of "a numble pie" as "an umble pie." And the later "humble" spelling arose from a connection made between this lowly, inferior food and the meaning of the unrelated adjective "humble." In fact, British dialectal pronunciation dropped the "h," so that "umble" and "humble" were pronounced alike.
So there ;p
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Interesting to read WGS is still scouting for new talent when apparently we learn on CQN 'deals are already done'. If he's genuinely in for these 3 Poles how many deals have actually already been done?
If it's, say, 3 and none of these Poles are signed would this mean we are starting from scratch for new targets other than the done deals and are proceeding in the interim with just 3 new arrivals?
Just conjecture and I don't like to be negative, just a little concerned given our track record.
To be positive then maybe we have 3 deals done (keeper, Diamond, Hartley). Bellamy will sign and we get all 3 Poles. BBJ off to West Ham and its perm 2 strikers from Bellamy, Magic, Sutton and Beattie.
Keeper
Pole, Diamond, Balde, Agathe
Pole, Lennon, Petrov, McGeady
Bellamy, Pole
Numerous obvious players now left out and so a squad developing.
Feel better already.
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blantyreKev, will the new keeper get a discount on his season book given the restricted view behind all these poles!
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Oh but the brown sauce will disguise any dodgy ingredients...
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cambuslangisareality... you ask us to relax about who we're going to sign yet the names you mention don't set the heather on fire for me. if we sign Bellamy that'll be our box office signing. the rest are there to strengthen the squad.
I think we need more quality than that. if anything IMO i think Russell Anderson is the better defender at Aberdeen. he has more composure and would fit in more with what we need. someone who can control and pass the ball at the back. I think diamond's a bit rough to pardon the pun!
to counter what has been said about BBJ. if as Paul says we get the quality signings we need i think we should sell him but the replacement needs to be better.
if not i would love to see big Sutty in his penultimate year lead the line again but we know he's gonni get injured at some point so we need cover.
Let Hartson And Beattie fight it out for Sutty's place when he's injured.
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Interesting team line-up Kev, but better put like this:
Keeper
Pole, Diamond, Balde, Agathe
Pole, Lennon, Petrov, McGeady
Pole, Bellamy
We've long been aware that our defence needed shoring up with a little more than scaffolding, so let's get a job lot of Poles in. And where most great teams have a solid "backbone", we would have a line of Poles instead.
Surprised to see no Sutton though. And more surprised to see Balde still in there - I was rather hoping he'd blunder off and we'd get someone in who actually wants to play for Celtic.
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4:27 PM, milkray
Class
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Do some of you guys write sketches for The Lenny Henry Show?
RussAbottCSC
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almost as good as leverkusen having no womb in their squad for placente
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I thought Bellamy was going to play in the Pole position... oh dear !
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Actually Larsson7 I thought that one was the best I've seen on this forum by a mile.
(Info: A pole is a unit of length, equal to 5.5 yards or 16.5 feet.)
So much for getting away from the long/high ball game - so why recruit all these 16½ foot giants?
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maybe they are gonna match up the giant poles with some dancers for HT entertainment?
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There are already enough giant poles in Celtic Park, i have sat behind a few of them before. ;)
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I thought a pole was 10 foot long, used for pushing barges and, according to WGS, he wouldn't have touched the Celtic job with one if the resources weren't there for him to do the job! So maybe we should let him get on with it...
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Edvaldsson (or can we call you Johannes?). If GS did indeed say he wouldn't have touched the Celtic job with a (barge) pole, do we take that as a cryptic clue that he never was going to sign the Polish boys?
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See they had to knock down the new Polish stadium. They ended up sacking the designer. Wherever you sat there was a pole in front. Silly guy
(sorry for poor jokes)
Would be nice to get that polish striker though he has a decent record and isn't that expensive. Positive news from Celtic park with them saying signings will be sooner rather than later.
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He has a reputation for being cryptic. He indeed said he wouldn't touch it with a "barge" pole, but he left open the possibility of signing a "large" Pole...
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I hope the news of signings sooner rather than later isn't a reaction to recent events, and that any investment in new playing staff is done - as Paul says - wisely.
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It is a time for patience for all Celtic fans. No doubt we have lots of work to do in improving the squad. But I think I speak for everyone in saying thatI would rather we waiting and got the right players instead of panic buying only for them to end up cluttering up our reserves.
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These Polish boys do you think they will PlEDGE allegiance to the club or are we just adding a MR sheen of respectability to our tranfer dealings.
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Bigchipsuk (or can I call you, er... bigchipsuk?!). Yes, inspired by the great Johannes (revealing my vintage), a defender who could be relied on to score a LOT of goals...
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Milkray you've got a BRASSO neck making comments like that!
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CambislangisaReality
Card is marked, 4 names given up front, big bold statement.
Upson = So leftfield he is out the park. Daily Star gets it right!
What happened to the GK, big name or spare?
Regarding the three Poles and their ages, at the moment needs must. We need so many players in so many positions that as long as they can provide 2-3 years service they will buy time until the U19s arrive.
One issue if Bellamy is considered to be our halo signing, agree with the previous comments that he is yesterdays news in that respect. Consequently won't shift many strips on his own.
However if the choice is one fresh top rank signing or 3 seasoned professionals with CL ability then I would plump for quantity over quality. Either that or try and get the headliner on loan.
Clearout vs Rebuilding
Balde - Better he goes
Thomson - Keeping a low profile
Lennon - Even @ £20K there were few takers.
BBJ - Support is slipping
Agathe - Reports of a last supper been exagerated?
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Oh Dear.
Don't quite your day job guys.
Rapid Vienna would me my choice for unfinished business. Of course Porto are in that TCB category, but hopefully that will be later.
Paul - If this site gets any more popular, you might need various catorgised post pages per subject:
Subject X
Comments Page A: Accounting Malarky
Comments Page B: Rants
Comments Page C: Team Talk / Rumours
Comments Page D: Snide Jokes
Comments Page E: "Insider" Knowledge
Comments Page F: Fargo & Associates
Just a suggestion based on this sites overwhelming and justified success.
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Gordon Strachan has indicated the positions he wants 2 of the poles to play in. One will be north, the other south.
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Sorry this is off topic but I thought it was worthy of everyones attention.
Villarreal are organising a return trip for Celtic fans as a thankyou for the hospitality shown to them when they visited Celtic Park (no mention of the booing of Mr. Quinn ;) ) as part of a large series of events in some sort of festival they have.
Well worth a look at:
http://celtic.soccer24-7.com/general/4022
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I think i know were we've been going wrong at Celtic???
Can't you see it...
If DD had is own private jet we could also bring players over in comfort, show them round Parkhead and Glasgow.
We could even ask Sean (OO7) Connery use some of his persuasive powers on the players.
"Xcush me shunny how about signing for Sheltic"
Well what do you think?
We could even take the Poles to the Truffle Club shure they would fit in there!
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first time user here.........
great site paul67.
we are constantly fighting against the wages and transfer potential of the EPL, the board should be ACTIVELY finding new, interesting and original marketing ploys.
the ideas about the redevelopment of the east end are optimistic but how long until the fruits bare?
about 2-3 years ago i posted an idea on celticfc.net (do the marketing moguls at celtic actually read the fans' comments?)
having at the time recently returned from two months travelling central and south america i felt that this is an area that should be exploited for the good of celtic. this is an area of mass population, although the majority are poor, there is a large upper class in these expanding economic societies. there is increasingly a more westernised culture and disposable income for many people. Furthermore, football is their LIFE.
I believe that CFC could capitilise on this relitively untouched market. A casual emphasis on celtic's heritage and roots (charitable catholic origins) would appeal to the mass roman cathlic potential fan base. I mention casual as we know that celtic stands for more than just catholicism (i myself am a non catholic season ticket holder) however it could be a basis for encouraging long term support.
On the television, the prodominant teams from europe are real madrid and barcelona. I believe there is a place for a northern European team to gain a substantial fan base in Latin America.
Any ideas lads? Perhaps a free cable channel throughout this population of approx 500 million? soccer acadamies and bringing over talented youth aka Ajax do in africa?
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Stupid Question,
When talk about players wages its always in the $ per week.
Are we to assume that players get paid this every week of the year?
i.e. if someone is on $10,000 a week, they actually get $520,000 a year.
?
Thanks.
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Excellent suggestion Half Fool and thanks for your kind support. Need to split the “Rants” category into a few subdivisions.
Welcome Neilybhoy7 and thank you for your support.
You are not the first to suggest we plough our field in the developing world. Lots of potential pitfalls, especially the immigration ones. In the next few years the ‘succession countries’ of eastern Europe offer excellent value without the need to acquire a Visa.
Global ambitions will mean this type of marketing approach eventually, though I would hope no attempts were made to earn out of religious allegiance.
Aldoroon, excellent observation. The media talk in £ per week because that is the way they always have. It is a bit like how they discuss the temperature in 0F during the summer (when the figure is high) and 0C during the winter when the figure is low.
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Just been on the Wisla Krakow website. Of the 3 Polish targets, Zurawski is almost 29, Tomasz Klos is 32 and Baszcyzinski is 28.
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Celticbhoy
Sorry for the time taken to respond, a good game of fives wasn't to be missed.
Celtic were helpful in providing data but their numbers fall down due to the increase in season tickets - even if people don't turn up then season tickets sales are still classes as attendance.
An interesting factor was that weather was a much more important factor in general football attendance rather than previous footballing success. Success on the park is really only successful in moving the share price for a short time.
I will try and frame the idea around studying various factors on merchandising sales for celtic over the last so many years. Probably the stuff for a blog once paul breaks the site down into categories.
McStay
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I totally advocate going to the eastern bloc for players, but was expecting guys in their early 20's with a year or 2 pedigree behind them and bags of potential.
If we sign any of the Poles, it will be 1 maximum, dont recall the Krakow team uprooting any trees recently in Europe, not even in a one off game - no pole double entendre in there, either.
£5m per year has come off of our yearly salary bill in the last 2 weeks with more to come (release of more deadwood, plus share issue cash etc.), therefore i expect some ambition in the glut (hopefully) of signings.
I see us buying quality and backing them up when required by our youngsters. If they aren't good enough to fill in on 5-6 games a year, why do we have them? They have proved their ability year on year.
By the end of next week we will have signed some quality, if not (certainly if not by the end of August) there will be a split in the support and certainly a reduction in revenue the following season due to a reduced fan base.
Most of us have been through the bad times and may not have the stomach for it a 2nd time. I believe there are fans on the board of the same opinion and that is why I am confident of a mix of good signings, i.e. guys we know who can do a job, guys with potential and maybe some guys that Wee Gordy thinks he can improve.
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Planetfootball.com website reports that one of the Polish players, Zurawski, has agreed terms with a team in Turkey and expects to sign today !
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Talk of holding back signings to coincide with strip launch or Nike swooshes on stadium seats are missing one important point.
If we get the remainder of the squad together for pre-season training in a few weeks time and then add the new bhoys on the 1st July, we are not giving the players much time to get to know each other before playing our first qualifier on 26/7/05.
The expectation is that we will cruise this game and go on to a clash with a decent team in R3(9/8/05).
However if we are still working out who does what on the field and trying to remind the new guys not to pass back to Bobo or Stan we may find ourselves talking up the challenge of the new format UEFA cup.
Polish players are nearing the end of their league. If we buy three Pole and then crash them straight into the beginning of our campaign we may see them burn out in Feb after 10 months continuous play. Just when we need them for knock out stages ( getting positive again)
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hi paul67 fellow celts, great site paul.but paul i am sticking bye my post of a few weeks ago , we will be the same old celtic ,we will buy mediocre players to get us by till 2007 we wont spend big as you have told us .and it will be a last minute job again because thats the way our club do things . we won the scottish cup ,they won the big one and the lc . who have bought,why them where,s mcleish .on holiday .no he,s buying players .where,s our new guy ,on holiday, god we do let our hearts rule our heads .but how much more knockbacks are we fans going to take . and yes i have bought and payed for my families 5 season tickets. im just scunnered they upstage us all the time .
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Paul, been reading for a long time, great site, the only one I read now for cetic gos.
Just a wee bit of info for you guys:-
I have just returned from mobilising a vessel out of Newcastle at Shepherds Offshore (i.e. Freddy Shepherd), and have been informed from a close friend of Mr Shep (and manager of his company) that Bellers will definately NOT be signing for Celtic
Kind off contradicts alot of suggestions eh??
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Paul,
How do you think we will do next season?Do you think the share issue will happen and will WGS have any cash to spend?
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Paul, i note your comment at 2.12pm ;
"Celtic have agreed deals for two players. The first player to be registered will be a big name."
If you know that we have 100% agreed deals to sign two players, one of which is an exciting name, then why don't you divulge some more information on these players? A couple of names would be a good start. Nothing is preventing you from sharing what would be some exciting and positive information with the rest of us Celtic fans (God knows we need it), so lets hear who these guys are.
If you lay your cards on the table now and these signings transpire, as you seem assured they will, then it will go a long way towards earning you the credibility of the many sceptics who still exist towards your site in the wider world that is the Celtic online community.
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from Huddle board
"45 min ago I spot Wdowczyk and Strachan at Wroclaw Airport
,now they ride to Lubin at Polish Cup semifinal Lubin v Wisla Krakow"
Posted at 7.35 p.m. tonight - irrefutable proof that GWS IS in poland now!!
Pictures also show Tim with WGS in an airport . But it could be anywhere.
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As great as it'd be to actually get past the group stages (if we get there at all I'll be happy) - would we be financially better off finishing 3rd and beating a team or two in the UEFA Cup or finishing second and then being walloped 8-0 by Real Madrid?
Personally, even if we were walloped 8-0 I'd still prefer to finish second for:
1) bragging rights
2) the glory of playing a team as massive as Real in such a competitive fixture
3) Positive coverage in Europe for Celtic : raising our profile etc.
4) Mmm, still the bragging rights!
OK, OK, I know we've played teams as big as Real before (AC, Barca, Juve etc.) but it'd be the context of playing them in 2nd stages of the CL that'd top it for me.
As I said, I don't want to get ahead of meself, just getting past the 2 qualifiers and into the groups stages would keep me happy for now. I'd be delighted with that!
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Just read the "Spanish invitation to Celtic". Submari CSC, the Villareal Celtic Supporters Club that visited us in April have extended an invitation to all Celtic fans to a 'Celtic Weekend' from the 8th to the 12th of September. I think this is an amazing gesture and would urge anyone who can to go.
If we can develop support like this in Europe where everyone has his/her own club to support imagine what we could do in the Far East! Its a long shot but I think a huge glamour match in the far east along with a few thousand travelling support would increase our merchandising capabilities no end. The key part being the supporters not necessarily the team.
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I was talking to a coach involved with youth football who informed me of an idea for a pan-european youth scouting network.
Without going into a long post the basic idea is that you enlist coaches at say under 17 or 19 level with provincial clubs in the top divisions across say 20 euro countries. These guys are most likely part-time, take livingston as an example.
These coaches will be viewing regularly the stars of tomorrow with all clubs in their league. Once or twice a year you receive a report from all coaches, the who's who of youth in that league and you pay the coach say
£1000 for the report.
This way you get a local view from all euro countries for an outlay of £40,000. In addition you offer the coach a finders fee if you subsequently purchase a reported player say a couple of % points on the transfer fee.
Now I dont know if this already exsists or it is just an idea but I had never heard it before and thought, in pricipal, it sounded pretty good.
Thoughts anyone?
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Half_fool,- great idea, Paul how about a "negative page".
Neilyboy,- welcome aboard CQN, don't know if the S America idea will work, our lot can't seem to fathom out N. America marketing and they speak English (sort of).
JimTim, - sounds like your reading the papers, the Huns seem to upstage us because the media mafia will always find something to give TFOD good press while trying to downplay anything Celtic do, Keep the faith!
some great comments today guys - keep it up.
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Jimtim, relax, plenty of time. From a financial perspective will it be the same as the last few years? Will we spend so much that we will lose money yet another year (because that is what we have done each of the last six years)?
I know it doesn’t feel like it, but we will spend, because that is what we have been doing all along :-) Let’s wait and see, it will all feel better in a wee while.
Thanks Murphy2403. They are still holding out for Bellamy, but there is a contingency in place.
Eazytiger, Wee Gordy will have money to spend no fear. In truth building a team is a big ask, bringing any player into the club is a risk and so many players who have come to CP have taken a year before we get the best from them.
Having said that, we will build a team that will comfortably win the league next season (just ask the bookies). As for Europe, who knows, at this stage we have an open canvass, anything is possible.
I believe the share issue will happen, have been predicting this since February.
King Henrik, let me clarify. They have not agreed a deal with a big name yet. We have had provisional offers accepted (player and club) for a goalkeeper and a midfield player, neither a big name.
If Bellamy signs we will hear about the three of them in quick succession. If not they will move on the Bellamy contingency. My information is two weeks old, so things could have moved on since then.
Milkray, sounds like good value for money.
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gerry said...
Q.can someone tell me what job is Brian Wilson to play for us?
A. Brian wilson is to play beach bhoys songs at half time
Q.is it to improve our PR?
A. Yes it is his job description to sing good vibrations at half time the next time Villareal CSC come to see us
Q.also......how many of the board live in Scotland?
A. Due to the recent lack of transfer activity and WGS playing hide and seek and winning most of the time, there has been a sharp increase in the board, mass emigration is an option many are taking up but still too many to count!
Q. also..... have we replaced our contract manger?
A. We are still looking for a site south of bethlehem, rumour has it that a site has been found, a new train station to be built there & near a watering hole with an electric walkway to the holy ground.
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Interesting Paul, one question, do you class Riordan as a midfield player?
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First some credit where its due - I asked yesterday where GS etc were and they have posted on the website - at least they realise there is a need - fair play to them.
NeilR - you know I disagree with both your's and Paul's financial analysis in some pretty important areas. However we have gone over that and I'm not really willing to go there again and bore everyone (why change now I hear many of you say).
I do agree with what you are saying Neil - and I think CQN may have a role to play with the board. But a wee warning - if this means we cannot dare criticise then I would argue thats a bridge too far (but then its Paul's site and its up to him).
Do the board really want dialogue with the fans or just to pay lip service.
There are some great minds on this site and most of you come up with some fantastic ideas (funny you all seem to beat me to it just as I'm about to say what my great ideas are) - now if we could get the board to listen they might even start to have some respect for us....
GM you may be right about Lennon's motives - but still....
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Great_no_8
Will make interesting reading if you manage to put statistics on it.
Personally I'd be amazed if spending does not correlate closely with football's 'feel good factor', whether it be success re results on the park (or perhaps more specifically good football as 1-0 results in the SPL do not always feel that good) or exciting news off it, transfers etc.
The feel good factor is proven in economics to inflate the propensity of the consumer to spend and that's in macro economic terms. When this feel good factor can be specifically attributed to events then the direction of this spending towards it must surely follow.
For this reason I believe that if what Paul has suggested may happen with Glazer and other potential hovering vultures, reduced spending etc to bleed profits, then a downward spiral to oblivion may ensue for them.
If the theory holds the most successful clubs will be those with a team worth watching, innovative management and good PR.
Sounds like a pretty obvious and simple formula. So why so elusive?
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OK so just to establish...
We have effectively signed two players already, but the announcement on both is being held back until we make our 'hollywood signing'?
I suppose you didn't happen to catch the names of the mystery goalkeeper and midfielder then?
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Let´s celebrate being amongst the best considered clubs in Europe. Seeded in the CL. Go tell it on the mountain Celtic board.
Doesn't confidence build business success? Here is a brand to promote.
There have been a couple of comments on this site praising Laporta's approach at Barça. I would like to know if the Celtic directors visit all the supporters clubs when they are in town with the club? Laporta has made a point of doing it in his first two years in charge.
I think the board need to start treating the fans as clients and to be grateful to them for having a job. They shouldmeet the fans and try to find out how the supporters manage to ingeniously find ways to follow their club all over the world and keep going. They are the real entrepeneurs if you ask me. It might even give the board a few ideas on revenue streams
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Good to see wee Gordon is out and about (allegedly) and I'd imagine we won't let another weekend go without giving our fans some good news. Big Jock Stein always knew the role Sunday papers played in setting the agenda for the start of the week and made sure they were fed tasty titbits to keep us on the back pages. Unfortunately, it seems David Murray has learned that lesson better than our board.
The Rangers chairman has cultivated the press strategically. When bad news brews (such as Kyrgiakos going) he always makes sure there is something else to take its place. Wonder why the Daily Record put on its front page that they'd signed a "4million pound player" even though the guy was an out-of-favour freebie who had punched his own coach?
The Jackie Mac saga, like the Brian Quinn phone message and DD's outburst before it, were all self-inflicted own goals. Celtic seem to want to hold the media at arm's length, but then bleat when the gutter press turn on them. As a famous Don (not Joe Harper) once said: "Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer."
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I take it that if the two players who have already signed are a midfielder and a goalkeeper we do not have Diamond or Riordan.
My best guess now is Hartley and possibly Gordon, paul?
Off the topic I read the back page off the Daily Rankers (before people start throwing things at me I was at work bored and it was lying in front of me.) and noticed it mentioned that basically, and this is para-phrasing: "Celtic failed to offer JM the wages that he was on after, this on the same day the £7m Euro money has been announced" I ask you, who announced this today? I knew about it when Rankers got knocked out of Europe. Would the answer be perhaps the newspapers? Perfect example of how they are genuinely ingenious and stirring things when it comes to Celtic. (Of course it was all great news for Rankers and how Bazza will improve with the new signing).
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Does anyone know if Maciej Zurawski has pace yet? I see he scored again today, that's apparently his 25th goal in 26 games. Would be a good signing but a little expensive when you consider we'd only get £2m for BBJ. Although with the teams apparently after him dropping out his price may drop. Paul, is 'Magic' the contingency plan?
To be honest, IMO if we were to buy Riordan I can't see why he wouldn't grab us 30 goals a season, he managed 20 odd at Hibs and would be getting more supply at Celtic. Nobody can really tell yet if he could do the job in Europe but he is still only young. Beattie is a good player but I'm not confident he will get us loads of goals, the same applies to Maloney.
I would hope we're not after Klos if he's 32, JM was younger so what is the point?
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Who knows who we are really after in Poland? Yeah, sure Zurawski scores goals but in the Polish league? They are the top team right now...10000 seater stadium too...sheesh!
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He does seem to have a decent record in Europe as well. None of us know anything about him so I guess we just need to wait and see.
Remember Lubo was unknown to us and was hardly at a huge club. Not saying he is going to be anywhere near as good as Lubo but just saying we can't write him off for playing in Poland. He seems to be attracting a lot of interest from clubs anyway so he must be doing something right.
