 Thursday, September 22, 2005
The Strachan formula will not be on show for some weeks yet
A lethargic Celtic eventually overcame Falkirk last night with little perspiration or inspiration on show. We have seen similar displays each year for many seasons now, so I would prefer not to read too much into this.
It was a great mystery why the very best of Martin O’Neill’s teams could win away at places like Anfield only to crash four days later in Inverness. As we all know, however, we face greater challenges at the moment than ‘raising our game for the wee teams’.
While many believe that Celtic peaked during the ‘Seville season’; for me the first eight months of season 2003-4, when we beat every team in the league home and away in consecutive matches, was unsurpassed.
After we beat Barcelona, the wheels came off the barrow. Villarreal was a challenge too far, the three-year unbeaten home record fell as first Aberdeen and then Dunfermline won at Celtic Park, even the Cup win at Hampden was more of a Larsson cameo than a fluent Celtic victory.
Last season was pretty awful from first to last; apart from the when Craig Bellamy injected some life into matters. Into this period of unquestionable decline stepped Gordon Strachan.
While we should have had a much better start to this season, the scale of the overhaul needed in the playing squad is such that it is unreasonable to expect our problems to be solved within two months.
The defence has stopped conceding goals (now only one in four games), though it is far from convincing and will soon be broken up to make way for our new signings and players returning from injury.
Last night we had the left footed Nakamura Shunsuke on the right with the right footed Shaun Maloney on the left for 90 minutes. It looked as comfortable as it sounds. Shunsuke created the winning goal after he moved to his natural side.
Maloney was the best Celtic player on show; if we had just signed him for £2.7million from Italy we would be raving about him. There is still a lot of work to do, specifically; he needs to find the killer touch in front of goal, but the improvement shown so far this season is encouraging.
We will be a Work-In-Progress for some weeks to come and should not be surprised if a further reversal is lurking around the corner. One thing I know for sure though, Gordon Strachan did not enjoy his first couple of games in charge and will not be satisfied until he has transformed Celtic into a powerful, pacey winning team.
200 Comments:
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Good to hear a sensible comment on where we are right now and from where the decline started.
I've detected a decline in the Strachan must go comments too which can only be helpful as well as they offer very little by way of constructive criticism except to throw out the line "Why didn't we get Paul Le Guen?".
We are a work in progress and we are also a work in progress which is sitting 2nd in the league. Winning does become a habit as we well know (ask Hearts).
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Spot on again Paul,
No-one can asssemble a Brazil '70 side overnight with limited resources. WGS seems to be intent on sticking by his philosophy of swift, passing football despite certain players being incapable of slotting comfortably into his vision. This is admirable but as we witnessed last night sometimes the option of Big Men up front in times of adversity is the answer.
If wee Shaun could finish, could we even put a price on his head(try the £29m that Saint Martin said Agathe was worth before!).
In all honesty for the most part last night was quite brutal, but it was job done and anyway who remembers the early rounds of domestic cup-ties?
To all those who attended, give yourself a huge pat on the back, that is if your hands are defrosted yet.
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Haven't posted for quite some time - too busy tending to my garden.
Apart from the blatant lethargy on show last night this team seem quite happy to play in an almost Dutch style. Knocking the ball about and stringing countless passes together with little or no end product. Although this could be said of Falkirk too. I dont mind this kind of game as long as the tempo can be raised and lowered as and when required.
But the most heartening aspect was the equaliser. Good quick passing, fine first touches and a simplistic finish. That is the kind of football I want to see regularly. And that seems to fit the WGS philosophy.
If we can play a number of games like that then I'll be happy to see the shoots of recovery have started.
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A fair article about Neil Lennon? Shome mishtake shurely????
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,438-1791560,00.html
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Maloney was Celtic's best player last night by a mile. I was alarmed at the ammount of times the midfield where posted missing and the lack of firepower in the last third, we where luck it was Falkirk last night and not a smaller team playing their cup final.
good article on the shameful disrespect towards Neil Lennon http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,438-1791560,00.html
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Cavansam, as the end of normal time drew near last night I thought ‘if we lose a goal here the roof is going to cave in again’.
We will lose games and we will play badly until the problems are fixed. Two months into a new regime we need to accept this and not panic when the inevitable happens.
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Agree, last night is not a game to judge any player or any one of the management team on.
You can only judge after a period of time a la a season and as paul says how many time over the years have we seen terrible early round performances?
You can have opinions,harbour doubts about players and can feel disappointed in the performance but in the grand scheme of things we got thru and that was the aim at the start of the night.
The only thing that you can take out of it, is that we learned slightly more about WGS vision for Celtic, learned slightly more about Naka and the new breed of Hoop and also got a few things confirmed that we already knew.
We can now look forward to Saturday's game and draw.
www.thelordofthewing.blogspot.com
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The difference in style / players from just a few months ago is staggering. I think the vast majority of the Celtic support can appreciate the work being done behind the scenes.
While everyone of us would love to see Celtic playing similar top quality football like Barcelona, AC Milan, Arsenal etc. We are all realistic enough to know we do not have many millions of pounds that these teams have spent. The fact that we are at least showing signs of adopting a similar style is highly encouraging, as I am sure the players themselves will also appreciate. It means a lot less donkey work for them in chasing aimless balls played into the corners in the hope of gaining a set piece play which we might be able to score from.
Obviously we are someway short of the final product. If it was that simple, all the teams would be doing it..but we ARE making progress and faster than could have been hoped.
Keep up the excellent work Gordon & the Bhoys. It's great to see, even if not always productive.
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paul67
My point exactly there are some who got a bit drunk on success and have forgotten the bad old days when you had to build a team from the ground up to win the league.
All I've been calling for in Strachans reign has been a bit of common sense, if he's getting it wrong consistently then we'd be mad to continue with him in charge, but at the moment I can see signs of improvement in the football we are trying to play and that is pleasing to see.
However I take your point if we had lost last night this entire thread would be full of "Sack him now", "let's boo Mo Camara", "let's march on the stadium" type of comments.
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People talk of fixes and when problems are sorted out. What basically do people perceive as needing fixed and what problems need solved. I hope we are not going back to the days of accomodating players out of position just because they are perceived to be good players. I hope we are not going to go down this road again ie Maloney on the left, Nakamura on the right, Petrov at the back of midfield, Sutton where ever there is a place etc etc.
I worry that the players coming in are untested IMO 2 of them Du wei and Virgo are central defenders. Ive said it before and I will say it again I would like to see Agathe back in the team.
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I think that a lot of bloggers on this site need to take off the green tinted glasses and stop kidding themselves on about this current side.
While the Celtic side has undoubtedly declined since Seville, Strachan has brought in a number of players to turn the team into a side that he feels will be good enough on all fronts.
However this season has been very poor so far. Not winning a pre season game, losing in Europe to, at best, a mediocre SPL side, losing to our rivals in a game which lacked discipline, some awful performances in the league.
Last night's League Cup tie just reinforced my views on this. In the same tournament last year, a predominantly fringe and reserve side scudded Falkirk in what was a rout, yet this year we are struggling to see them off.
Even in the league, with the exception of the Aberdeen game, we have looked edgy and severely lacking ability.
I wasn't a fan of Strachan initially, but decided to give him the chance that he deserved. However if performances do not improve then I will have to question how long he can survive in the job.
As well as his performances, you have got to question some of his signings.
The 2 Polish players and Nakamura are gifted players, however Telfer, Alliadiere and Camara (Aaaargh), Du Wei (5 months from playing for the first team @ G.Strachan), at this point seem to be mistakes. (We shall see how the Du Wei signing transpires).
Anyway, enough of my rant. I haven't missed a Celtic domestic match this season, and I don't intend to for the rest of the season, however take the blinkered specs off for a bit lads and look at things realistically.
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I'm a big Sahun Maloney fan....I think he learned a lot from Henrik and Lubo during their time at Celtic.
However, he really needs to brush up on his finishing, he had a few good chances last night and blew them. If he can do this he would be in my team every time.
One other thing from last night was a great chance that Majic had to square the ball for Maloney (I think) to pass into the net. Whilst I don't like crticising a striker for having a go he just needs that wee bit of awarenes around about him, like Henrik dare I say it again, to spot the easy option.
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Al Obundy
I dont really expect to see much more of Agathe in a hooped strip.
as far as we've been led to beleive hes fit and ready to play but could even get a place on the bench last night.
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Realistic Bhoy
I don't get it that's exactly what we are all calling for, realism?
You can't create a new team overnight (not even MON could do that) so why not have a realistic expectation of where the team are/should be at this stage?
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Realisticbhoy- i tend to agree with most of ur points regarding some of the performances so far this season.
most of us here are probably still worrying about certain aspects of the team, bit all we are saying is give it a bit of time.
i do expect a few more dodgy performances from now to the end of the season, but if these dodgy performaances produce victories like last night then so be it.
Im sure we all will take it.
No one has said we are the finish article as we all know we are far from it.
www.thelordofthewing.blogspot.com
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Just heading off to the reserve game against Hibs at Airdrie to see how the fringe players plus Du Wei and Virgo are shaping up.
I'll post something on it later tonight.
Meanwhile, my own views on last night are on:
http://celticfcblog.blogspot.com
Cheers,
JohnBhoy
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As I've said before a few times on this site, I think the next couple of months could be really important for our season, in fact vital really. If we can cling on and continue to grind out victories, we should have a good chance for the league in the second half of the season once we start finding that bit of fluidity and cohesion in our play.
Last night was a poor display, but we did create about 10 chances. If two or three had been taken in the first half, it would have been a totally different game. It was pretty similar in this respect to the Hibs game - minus the good first half passing display from Sunday. We really need to start taking our chances. Maloney played really well (especially considering he was out of position) but needs to find that killer instinct. Magic also had numerous chances which you'd expect him to score (although he did take his goal well). It's somethign we need to work on.
Thought Camara played well, Telfer looked pretty poor and the Falkirk goal highlighted a lack of understanding in the centre of defence. Boruc commanded well and probably couldn't have done anything about the goal. Stan was anonymous, Sutton looked at sea a bit until he moved up front, Naka looks lightweight but has a fantastic touch and range of passing and Beattie spent most of the time on his arse looking for free kicks. BBJ again highlighted his worth and Shaun was our best player. Lawson didn't do much wrong when he came on.
I'm reasonably happy with the way things are going at present, bearign in mind the scale of the task facing WGS at the start of the season. My only gripe so far is his use of players out of position. As already noted, why play Shaun left and naka right? I'm all for playing players in their correct position. That was Wim Jansen's philosophy - build a team round the players you have. Let's not use Sutton in midfield, play either him or BBJ up front - we can't have both in the same team.
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Realistically i think we should support celtic , strachan et all.
If it was for example "paul le guen" or "Co adriasse" or some other european manager we would be giving them time even if we had the same results. I call in peoples allegiences sometimes. Do people around here suppport celtic or and say someone else or do they always moan about everything.
Some posters are forever sceptical and although everyone has their own view which i respect always their main demeanour is one of deep cynicism towards our team. Why always be critical , Vultures waiting for the fall , just show some support. We are in the next round of the cup. This was our aim and it has been achieved. Other Spl sides had it difficult to , rangers were lucky ,hearts are out and they played worse sides than we did last night.
If strachan were to lift a treble this season , I fear some would still be calling for his head. The team still would not be good enough.
Remove some weight from the team and managers shoulders then the improvement shall come 10 fold.
They are able to read you know.
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Reposted from last blog for EdwardUrsus...........
Hello EdwardUrsus,
Apologies for getting your blogger name wrong yesterday (Can I call you Ed from now on?) and also for the delay in replying to you.
Firstly, thanks for your comments. I am in agreement with every point you make. Dougal did have a stinker and maybe I was a bit harsh with my comments on him never officiating at that level again.
One point that you hit on was the timing of the red card.
As I said, I agree with your common sense approach in that Dougal could have dealt with this when Neil was back in the dressing room.
However, it has been said (RealRadio – they do come away with some rubbish as FACT often enough, so not a good source) that a recent rule change prevents the ref from using this sensible approach.
According to Real Radio’s Chief Sports Reporter Ewen Cameron (who spins records on a Saturday afternoon instead of reporting at a match, but there you go eh?), the referee MUST produce the card before the player leaves the pitch.
Maybe one of the bloggers on here could set the record straight on this issue………….
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For fear of getting on his back again I'm afraid that the position I worry most about is left back . I cant fault Camara for effort but effort is not enough - he simply hasn't got it , he offers the team nothing at all, and even worse it is the only position that we dont have a replacement. Please please let's get this position sorted before it costs us . Is there anyone there that wouldn't chose left back as their first position to improve ?
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Can't believe the fellow posting with Camara (Aaah). So unfair, the man was great last night , unlimited energy up nd down the left. And only for a bad miss from Beattie , he would be credited with a goal assist. Some fellow Celts can really get up my nose.
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Cavansam,
How many times have you actually heard the crowd boo Mo Camara?
I have missed 1 game since he signed. I have not heard anything other than a groan when he loses the ball in dangerous positions. As he did on 1 or two occasions last night. This same noise can be heard when any Celtic player loses the ball in a similar position. At no time have I heard Camara being booed.
The guy is improving and I think that most supporters are seeing that. He is not the player that many of us would have liked for the position but he is all we have.
Paul67,
You said;
"We will lose games and we will play badly until the problems are fixed.
I couldnt agree more. My question would have to be why are we addressing the same problems that were highlighted 2 seasons ago?
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I don't think that you can be 'sent off' after the match however I am sure that you can call the player to your office and inform him that he will be included within his match report thus will face disciplinary action.
Interesting to note, Lennon will receive no further disciplinary points for his ban.
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An ugly orc at work just left an article by A**y Mc****t from the D***y R****d on my desk. Apparently, the SFA are showing double standards as Miko from Hearts got an eight game ban and Lennon only got three. Now, you can't expect much more from the dense little backstard (Don't you just love Father Ted!)! Feckin eejit! Can someone please explain to him that Miko had 2 red cards on the pitch for having a go at both officials then refusing to leave the park. After serving the 2 game ban, he got another 3 games through his disciplinary hearing. Lennon served his red card ban then got the same 3 match suspension. How is this double standards? Mc****t is at number one on my all time hated list. And he's there to stay. If this wasn't a family site I'd have used every swear word I know in one big long insult. Instead, I'm going to dig out my Father Ted video and get some cleaner alternatives for use later!
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Ryn
Our last manager didn't solve them so our new one has to attempt that.
Rossio - the Miko case is misleading, he committed a different offence from Lennon. Lennon was not up in front of the SFA for 'barging into an official' as Super Fake McCoist seems to think.
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....having been in the priviliged (?) position of seeing all three (Virgo, Du Wei and Agathe) play recently, I would say the following:-
Virgo - Strolls around the park with an "over here, overpaid" attitude. The guy MAY have it but has shown nothing to prove his worth in the first team (IMHO). More time in the reserves required, definitely.
Didier - HAD it. Sadly he just doesn't seem interested (or is he?), looks overweight and lacking pace. More time in the reserves required. Maybe.
Du Wei - Certainly SEEMS to have it but communication to those around him is (as yet) non existent. Good in the air, strong on the ground but tends to overhit passes. Again more time in the reserves required. Unfortunately.
In short, none of those three are an immediate solution to a defence that, being far from perfect, has only lost one goal in four games. So should why WGS select any of those three now?
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Ryn
You've taken me up completely wrong I was only using that as an example of some of the extreme views we seem to get when Celtic perform badly. I could have inserted another name in there but Camara seems to be the one that generates the hottest debate.
I for one am with you on Camara, I will support him and any other player in the hoops, and would challange anyone who boos a Celtic player.
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Mo Camara had an excellent game last night. The Artmedia game history. Time to give support and credit to this Celtic player.
In the last couple of matches Camara has been the key player in dynamic moves that if the end striker had scored then we'd be in raptures. His honest and energetic efforts for the team are commendable.
Chris
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Giovanni Paulo - my thougths exactly. Lennon used threatening behaviour but did not assault an official. Even if he had, then surely a three game ban would still be the correct decision? Miko had his age as a mitigating factor, which Lennon clearly doesn't, but it was a far less serious case. It just highlights the bias and lazy journalism we have to put up with day in day out.
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Yes.
Lennon was actually banned for 'misconduct of a significantly serious nature'.
No mention of this violent behaviour which everyone is going on about.
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Apologies for going off topic, but I'm sat here at work with Radio 1 playing in the background and couldn't believe my ears when their newsbeat bulletin reported taht Scottish referees are saying they might go on strike following the leniency shown to Neil Lennon's.
The rub is that they said "following Neil Lennon's shove on the referee".
I've just sent off an e-mail briefly explaining recent events and that no referee shoving took place. I decried their "lazy journalism" and said that I hoped Neil heard the bulletin and was getting in touch with his lawyers.
All the best
Corpachbhoy
PS its newsbeat@bbc.co.uk
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A friend who is obviously bored in the office and has far too much time on his hands has just sent me the email below. It's argument is so plausible that it deserves a wider audience:
During his reign, MON was often criticised for favouring hard-working players with English Premiership experience over younger squad members with exciting, yet inconsistent skills.
It is becoming obvious that Strachan works to an entirely agenda - comrades, we are entering a brave new era where a player's suitability for first-team selection has less to do with his history of mid-table Premiership scrapping and more to do with his chosen haircut.
Forging the 'new' Celtic side in his own, sensible, short-back-and-sides image, Strachan is striking back against the metrosexual ridiculousness of these Hibs-player haircuts, protecting not just the decency of the first-team photo, but also preventing his players from mortal embarrassment should they come across a photo of themselves six or seven years from now.
Consider the evidence:
Despite his unquestionably mercurial footwork (let's face it - the boy has magic in his boots), young *ahem* Irishman Aiden McGeady has gone from Great Young Hope and future Saviour of the Celtic to substitute appearances in the dying embers of meaningless CIS cup games against Falkirk. His skills have not abandoned him, but his follicular fashion judgement most certainly has. The boy has RIDICULOUS hair. Were he not a Celtic player, most of us would laugh at him in the street. Strachan is clearly unprepared to tolerate such a foolish appearance in his lineup and has banished young Aiden to the bench until he realises the error of his ways.
And then there's Stanislav Varga. PREPOSTEROUS hair. Varga has gone from being a pillar of the Sieve to mysterious invisibility since the arrival of WGS. Why is this? Ignoring for a moment that he's slow as a week in the jail and easily beaten in the air by players James Grady would tower over, the only explanation for his disappearance is his frankly horrific blonde-highlighted frozen Eastern European mullet/perm back-combed horrorshow of a hairstyle. Seriously, this is one man who fell into a big pile of 1982 and never got over it. Strachan, no doubt as horrified as the rest of us, dropped Varga like a hot brick, replacing him with the sensibly-barneted Stephen McManus, to partner Bobo Bald, whose refusal to contemplate hair at all is probably the only thing keeping him in the team at the moment. Number ones all round in the centre of defence. Many have suggested that it was Varga's literally statuesque performance in the Bratislava nightmare that hastened his departure from the side - not at all say I; Telfer and Camara were equally inept that night, but their more conformist hairstyles have protected them as Strachan has wielded the axe.
Many of us have been delighted by WGS's staunch support of Neil Lennon in the face of some quite astonishing tabloid-orchestrated lynchmob-rousing. In reality, Lennon could have stuck the head on Dougal in the post-match press conference and would have received the same backing from his manager. Gingers are a besieged bunch and tend to stick together. Why else would Stephen Pearson be anywhere near a Celtic jersey?
Stilian Petrov's recent rejection of his previous unwieldy 'mushroom' haircut, something that's plagued him since his arrival in Glasgow, in favour of a far more sensible short-back-and-sides must surely be a reflection of a growing fear for his central midfield place. Sure, he's helped his case with a couple of goals in recent matches, but Strachan must surely be pleased with his Bulgarian midfielder's improved haircut, and his place at the very heart of the side is growing more and more assured by the day.
Shunsuke Nakamura arrived in a blaze of publicity and his impressed everyone since taking up his place in the team, not least his manager who must be delighted with his Japanese acquisition's superbly-styled hair. That typically Japanese easy manageability, the lack of publicity-seeking dyed colours popular among many of his countrymen and the subtle nod to the Charlie Nicholas over-the-eye fringe (an all-time classic Celtic cut if ever there was one) all serve Naka well, and his future as a bright rising son (sorry) in the east end is surely, er, assured.
Shaun Maloney and Craig Beattie, for several seasons frustrated under MON, are now being given their opportunity to shine, and this columnist can only assume that their no-nonsense haircuts must be making it difficult for the manager to leave them out of his plans. By opting for smart, functional cuts, the two young Scots have forced their way into Strachan's plans and continued this into the national team, where Walter Smith appears to preside over something of a hairdo free-for-all.
The one concern Strachan must have at the moment however is with Maciej Zurawski. His improving form in front of goal is obviously buying him a bit more time, but Strachan's patience with his Polish striker must surely be wearing thin. Magic's ability to make it look as though he's wearing a hairband in the style of a young John McEnroe, causing the hair on top of his head to flounce around like an effete stage actor in a Gilbert & Sullivan production may well impress the youth of Krakow, but will receive short shrift in WGS's dressing room. The clock is ticking for the man with the golden boots I fear.
Of course, this is a high-risk strategy Strachan is adopting, but time will tell and we should all reserve judgement until such time as silverware is being handed out. One would hope that by setting Celtic up - in haircut terms - as the polar opposite of TFOD (I mean, what the heck is Dado Prso thinking? The rave era is O-V-E-R big man) Strachan is revolutionising our game and hopefully our society, by showing young men all over the country that winning starts with a decent haircut, and a stupid bleachy Hibs-player hairstyle will get you nowhere in life.
Reports that well-kent Glesga hairdresser to the stars Rita Rusk is being lined up to join the backroom staff are as yet unconfirmed.
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It used to be said Old Firm managers were three games from a crisis. From what I've read this year I'd say it's down to two - at best - before there are calls for decapitation.
The quest and pressure for the title with the Champions League money and financial stability this brings, as opposed to the football glory, is at a fervour that is unhealthy and strangling us.
I like reading the more cynical posts here on CQN as being generally a bit of a football romanticist myself I like the balance this brings and genuinely believe it assists in the pursuit of excellence, but I agree with Big Liam that this year, despite any misgivings over various elements of the team or the management, genuine support and encouragement could be the 12th man like few league races in history.
To bring its relevance back to the current thread Rangers are stagnating at this level while Celtic, having hit rock bottom, are now on the way back up, albeit at a realistic pace as opposed to a pace we'd all like. We have better youth with a better football coach and on the whole a better squad. If we, the Celtic support, can handle the pressures this season will bring better, and our support can sustain this work in progress until it can sustain itself, then maybe we can once and forever leave Rangers in our wake.
A good start would be to absolutely not call for the managers head, nomatter how hard it is, while there is no realistic possibility of it happening or unless you are going to back it up with a credible alternative. There were plenty of Rangers fans calling for McLeish's head after drawing at Falkirk and there's no doubt McLeish felt it.
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MK Bhoy
Would have to say that Magic has a "free pass" in the hair stakes since he has a "Brother Walfrid" which is clearly beyond criticism!
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Let's be honest it wasn't that bad of a performance last night.If it wasn't for an exceptional goalkeeping display by Falkirk's Lennon an entirely different spin would be put on the game.
Magic in particular could have had a hat trick easily;plenty more goals coming his way.
However, i'm a little concerned with Naka. He's obviously not the strongest but still seems to go down to easily even with a fair challenge.It's like ''i lost he ball therefore i must have beeen fouled,geez a free kick!''
Mcgeady looked good when he came on, hopefully he will be getting more of a chance some time soon.
Sean
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i am just delighted with the whole league situation at the moment, no more two teams and thats it until the end of the season carry on. every match and team selection is studied and waited upon. close matches with bum teams, its great to see and am delighted to see the passion is back scottish football
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Someone marked Telfor's perfomance down..
My only response is...
'Sir, are you a raving loon?'
His workrate was exemplary. Passing was generally good and his support of Naka 'I'll dive if I want to' mura was excellent.
Ditto the contining nonsense about Mo Camara. His movement in support of the the midfielder is top notch. He collects the ball, he passes and then takes up position in front of and to the left of the midfielder for the potential pass. How many defenders pass and then consider the job done?.. answer - far too many! He constantly gave Maloney the extra option.
Methinks some people just moan for the sake of it.
Paul, I am yet again in agreement with you. Rapidly turning into a sycophant ain't I? Or maybe just an elephant.
Lets us not loss sight of the fact that we have only lost one game since the league started. Not bad for a team supposedly in decline with a crap manager.
Football! dontcha luv it!!
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Couple of points on the article:
Agree that 2003/04 contained a lot of good football, unfortunately the Barca games took a lot out of the team.
Main thing for me were the changes that happened to the Seville team when the good results were being ground out.
Move to 4-4-2
PL becomes an optional player.
SV comes in as a regular.
JM struggles with injuries.
LM has 4 months in the sun.
MG and his temp move, now we have a guest left back.
JFK / DM come through the ranks.
AT has a fine run of form.
However in all of this the one thing that sticks out is the importance of SP to the team following his move from Motherwell. Became a regular and a stand out in the space of 4 months. How much we relied on him was shown by his miss in Vila Real.
If it had went in we would have won the match.
However over both games something was missing, the team was running on empty after the heroics of Barca. Whether this lack of spark was just down to these two games is open to question but we were missing something.
This downslide was amplified in 2004/05 and it is this that WGS is working to overcome. Huge job considering the change in personel and the lack of real funds for the rebuilding. However one good point has been the way that some of the U21's / second string players have been taking the chances that are now coming there way.
All we need now is the spawn of Fargo to do a bit and we should be on our way.
MM's foolhardy 7 + 32 prediction:
Celtic = League, cup and share issue.
Hertz = 2nd CL spot, cup final and FSA investigation
TFOD = New manager + financial structure in the new year.
Sheep / Hibs = Cup final at least.
Paul 67
Why the recent emphasis on football?
Any chance we can move on to discuss money and all things financial?
I don't think we can survive the season without changes on the cash front.
Any thoughts?
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Thanks Tom - I'll raving loon ya! I have been generally impressed by Telfer so far - just thought he had a few dodgy passes and ran out of steam last night. Other than that, I think he's been pretty solid so far.
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Cavansam,
Or should that be pronounced Ceeaaavan ;)
Apologies. I did indeed jump the gun.
I shall buy you a pint the next time I am passing through your lovely county.
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Telfer is what he is, an experienced Premiership player who knows what he's doing and does it with little or no fuss.
Now if only he'd hit one of those trademark screamers that he used to occasionally hit for Southampton he'd win over a few more fans.
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Ryn
No bother the Brandywell in Ballyconnell is where I can be found when I'm visiting my old Man. It's a great Celtic pub similar to a toned down Bairds.
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madmitch - "why the recent emphasis on football?"
Please spare us from your financial wizardry!!
Your tongue was planted firmly in cheeck there I hope??
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Thing is with Telfer and Camara too for that matter.They were not signed under false pretences.No one implied that they were world class or saviours of the club.They can never be described as flops.Personally I think they are both doing OK.
It is players of the calibre of Zura and Naka who could potentially flop.
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Mkbhoy,
Brilliant post-cheered me up on a boring Thursday afternoon.
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Paul and all,
I can't say I enjoyed Celtic Park at all last night. While I agree entirely with your thread, Paul, 2 things really worried me. Craig Beattie didn't seem to be able to keep his feet at all. I was delighted when John Hartson came on for him. I never thought I'd ever write that. The other thing was that the defence, especially Bobo, seemed to lose the plot too often and too easily.
I am all for giving the manager plenty of time but it looks as if we have a lot further to go than I thought. I've posted before that Nakamura has to be on the left. Maloney does a lot of good and then wastes much of his good work.
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thepolarbear
Half wind up, half coat trailing.
CQN's "USP" was its coverage of all things financial regarding the club. Where has it all gone? It is not as if we don't have issues in the area more the fact that the editorial line has shied away from this topic and I wonder why?
The figures given out in the latest set of accounts are quite worrying in that they seem to show that all things being equal debt will rise by £3mill / £5mill over the next 10 months on top of the big rise that was announced for 2004/05.
Bit of a guess as I am struggling to fully understand the numbers, but the loss of £8mill CL money will surely hit the squad at the manager's disposal. This and the fact that in the recent past a lower debt level was considered to be unsustainable where does that leave us now?
Consequently the situation regarding the club is open to conjecture but there has been a lot of comment about the situation regarding TFOD and the possibility of a large scale company failure while next to nothing about the situation about the club. Again I wonder why?
That and the fact that I can bluff it for longer when talking about financials than I can when it is solely about football.
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ParkheadcomeSalford, I agree on the defence; don’t know where to start.
Agree also John H, our full backs should be considered stopgaps.
Mad mitch. There are too many gaps in my knowledge to produce an accurate budget at the moment. I also expect the picture to change with new cash coming into the business, which would change any budget I could produce based on the current standings.
I plan to discuss some of the salient points ahead of the AGM, specifically that we will overspend for the seventh year running and where we will be without new cash.
SanFranTic and Bellshill Tim, I also went to Cardinal Newman. Good to see one of us made it beyond the county lines.
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Cavansam...
I've detected a decline in the Strachan must go comments too which can only be helpful as well as they offer very little by way of constructive criticism except to throw out the line "Why didn't we get Paul Le Guen?".
Your comment does a great diservice to those of us who harbour real concerns for our club. Whilst your commitment to the cause of Mr Strachan is laudible, please refrain from doing so at the expense of fellow posters on CQN. The debate on Gordon Strachan has hardly started - this "dissenter" is keeping his powder dry to prevent CQN from becoming as monotonous as certain other Celtic (and Rangers) "resources". If every time we get a result the same message about "glad to see the "Strachan out" mob are wrong or talk rubbish" CQN will cease to be an enjoyable place for an afternoons' perusal. I put forward many and varied reasons for parting company with our esteemed manager early, I also put forward many reasons why changing the manager would be a good thing, as have many other posters. Please give credit where credit is due, and stop this ridiculous charade. Every time we get a result the same nonsense gets trotted out. "Give him time" you say. That cuts both ways. I have to give him time before judging? So must you!
We are a work in progress and we are also a work in progress which is sitting 2nd in the league. Winning does become a habit as we well know (ask Hearts).
This time last year we were top of the league. Progress? I happen to think the league position tells little - certainly, one lesson learned from last season is that the league table in September gives no indication as to our coming fortunes (or misfortunes).
My point exactly there are some who got a bit drunk on success and have forgotten the bad old days when you had to build a team from the ground up to win the league.
I disagree. There are posters on here who remember all too well the "bad old days" and will do anything to avoid returning to them. Further there are posters on here who regard Celtics natural place as being at the top of the table and who consequently will fight like tigers to avoid the slip back down.
However I take your point if we had lost last night this entire thread would be full of "Sack him now", "let's boo Mo Camara", "let's march on the stadium" type of comments.
Did you think last nights result was important? I would take issue with your assertation. The fact that there were so few fans at the game would at least hint at it's relative lack of importance. This poster would have liked to have seen far, far more experamention carried out Why no Du Wei? No Virgo? It was a meaningless game. Also, as far as my recolection goes there has only ever been one post on CQN alluding to booing Mo Camara. indulging in tabloidesque fantasy is not in any of our interests! Maybe you could quote where any of us "dissenters" have advocated anything like booing Camara, or marching on the stadium. Sack Gordon Strachan now? Thats another matter, and one that will be resolved in the fullness of time. If he's a success, he's safe, if not, Thanks and goodbye. I have concerns about the manager, not groundless fears or pointless bias, but reasoned and reasonable opinions.
Also, as it happens, regardless of the result, Mo Camara had a very good game. To suggest that posters have an unreasonable dislike of Camara is unfair. Do I think he's Celtic class? No. Do I think he can have a good game? Yes! Would I like him to be a success? Of course! I don't know of any supporter who would boo a Celtic player.
but at the moment I can see signs of improvement in the football we are trying to play and that is pleasing to see.
That's a subjective view. How can you expect others to be convinced simply because you see something? Until there is some measurable success I'll take the 5th. I can debate statistics, but how can we debate opinion?
You can't create a new team overnight (not even MON could do that) so why not have a realistic expectation of where the team are/should be at this stage?
I think you'll find he did!
Paul67
Last night we had the left footed Nakamura Shunsuke on the right with the right footed Shaun Maloney on the left for 90 minutes. It looked as comfortable as it sounds. Shunsuke created the winning goal after he moved to his natural side.
Was that a good tactic? I don't think so! We need a manager who knows the position his players operate in. If Gordon Strachan does not know something as simple as this by now we're in deep trouble. I thought the midfield last night was notable by it's utter lack of bite and of purpose. Magic had to consistantly drop into midfield to pick the ball up. Stan Petrov was reduced to a role little better than that of a spectator. Naka promised much and delivered little (his cross for the goal his only effective contribution imo) We have real and serious problems. Granted these are nothidden slightly by our failure in Europe, but I honestly believe the best thing that happened to Strachan was the Artmedia debacle because it has saved him from facing some decent teams and the prospect of frequent appraisal of his abilities. one really bad result and then he's essentially free and easy.
We will be a Work-In-Progress for some weeks to come and should not be surprised if a further reversal is lurking around the corner. One thing I know for sure though, Gordon Strachan did not enjoy his first couple of games in charge and will not be satisfied until he has transformed Celtic into a powerful, pacey winning team.
Well, he's doing beter than me, I've only enjoyed one game this season - the Dundee United game. All the reset have been a portent of ill fortune ahead. Time will tell, but I'm not optimistic.
While we should have had a much better start to this season, the scale of the overhaul needed in the playing squad is such that it is unreasonable to expect our problems to be solved within two months.
And this is despite being the 8th highest spenders in Europe? Given that at one point last year we were 12 points ahead in the league and only narrowly lost it, that we performed acceptable in Europe, I wouldn't have thought the scale of the rebuild was that great. Certainly, I imagined a few players and we would be flying. Regardless of the scale of the rebuild, if someone told me we would be the 8th highest spenders, to be honest, I would have expected a much better product that the one currently on show! Must we be the highest spenders in Europe before our teeam is complete? i would offer that it's entirely reasonable to expect far more than we currently have on show.
We will be a Work-In-Progress for some weeks to come and should not be surprised if a further reversal is lurking around the corner. One thing I know for sure though, Gordon Strachan did not enjoy his first couple of games in charge and will not be satisfied until he has transformed Celtic into a powerful, pacey winning team.
Paul, no manager should be satisfied until he has a team of winners, however, Adam Virgo and Paul Telfer will certainly not give us a pacey team. Neither will Nakamura offer pace or power. Nakamura has many talents, pace and power are not amongst those in his arsenal.
Can I finish with a call to all posters on CQN.
Given the fact that fact that we appear close to calling for an out and out boycott of the tabloid press (something I'd be happy to assist in the organisation of) and the fact that we pride ourselves in having something of a moral highground over most other teams (noteably Rangers) could we please cease the slang terms for our competitors and the press? I'm referring to Orcs, Huns, The Daily Ranger/retard etc. I think that if we are going to address the many wrongs of the press and our opposition supporters we must strive to be respectful. We can't insist on being treated correctly if we do not offer similar back to those who would castigate us. We must lead the way, not follow. If others call us names? Thats due to their ignorance - we should strive to rise above that. By all means offer critique and where necessary derision, but lets give them the respect we would like accorded to us. Namely, call them Rangers, The Daily Record, The Sun etc. Lets call them what they are and be fearless in our quest for respect and equality. Take a look on forums like those of Follow Follow. See the language used and the gutteral terminology. Look how it reflects on those guys. I would be appalled if that were a Celtic site. Lets show everyone who stumbles on CQN why it's the best Celtic supporters site, why we're the best fans in the world and that we're also the most informed. Forget name calling, lets tell it like it is!
/p
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Hi Paul an' all,
Last nights game. Thought we were outstanding in patches troughout, there's a plan forming. However my main gripe is the anonimity of Stan Petrov, he just wasn't at the races, not his usual fiesty self. I felt he gave a performance identical to the Artmedia Bratislava game, that troubles me. I think Stan is a fantastic player and when he has a bad shift we struggle badly.
Nakas free kicks were mega pants too, I was all geared up to raise the roof at his fantastic free kick skills and it was a damp squib. I still have faith though.
Hail Hail
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p8ddy,
Celtic will never be allowed to play meaningless games.
Otherwise, brilliant post!
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baba,
agree with you on Petrov
I blame the haircut!
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Hail Hail p8ddy on your orcs/retard call.
How can we ever have a legitimate claim to decency when we lower ourselves to petty name calling.
I do care / dislike what 'they' (whoever they happen to be) call us. But i refuse to sink to the same level.
NBNC
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Thanks to all the guys who helped out in trying to get a mention for my dad's 82nd birthday at the game on Saturday.
I contacted CP and I was told that this facility is "outsourced" and five days notice is required. This "five day" rule could be mentioned in the Celtic View. And, simpleton I may be, but just how long does it take to type in "Happy Birthday Joe" in flashing letters?
Sorry to be negative. But, come on Celtic, you can do better than this. If I had a customer who had stayed with me for seventy six years, I'd try to look after him.
Ex analysis again Paul. Wouldn't it be graet if there was an "only one Mo Camara" and "only one Paul Telfer", "one Mick McManus " chant. Just the once. Would do these guys the world of good.
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p8ddy.....Excellent point, well done.
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I have to come to the rescue of our full backs here. I think Telfer has been pretty good since arriving, he is a no frills player but gets the job done. Camara has been fairly solid recently IMO, he does seem like he is the type to make a few blundered every now and again (quite Balde-esque) but has also saved us on more than one occassion. His 'poor positioning' when analysed is more down to being caught between two players. This therefore is partly the tracking midfielders and partly the Centre-backs fault. His crosses are not great but there have been a few excellent ones - both players get up and down the park all day.
I think it is worth noting that WGS looks like he wants Ashley Cole type full backs - hence the Ross Wallace quote. Cole is a great player but he isn't a terrifically gifted player in the defence department. What is more important is the positioning sense and workrate to pick up a man and stop crosses coming in, you don't have to be a great tackler or header of the ball, being able to push wide players back is an extra bonus - at least this is how I think Strachan sees it.
Any report on Virgo and Du Wei tonight other than the one on Celticfc.net?
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Paul67 and Bellshill Tim when were you at CNHS? I left in 83, were you guys around then?
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I wasn't impressed with the game last night, wishing it would finish in the 90mins.......:-)but we won and that's all that matters the now.
Paul67...................@ 5.09 you said................
I also expect the picture to change with new cash coming into the business, which would change any budget I could produce based on the current
what new cash? please tell
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One think I have noticed the last few games is the number of passes attempted to be made will the player is running and the ball played while in the air on the volley. Very effective but not that easy to do. I think it gives insight into the playing methodology being implemented.
One touch played at speed however that needs to be done.
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p8ddy,
i disagree.
i think calling rangers tfod and the orcs is quite amusing. not in the least bit offensive.
hun? agree with you on that.
Emjay
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p8ddy
Liked your post and as usual there is a bucket load of controversy in there to debate.
Keep up the good work!
I do agree with some of your assertions re the terminology that we use for our southside rivals.
Some of it is unworthy and disrespectful but some of it is also very funny and we smile at it even if we don't condone it.
Like you I am not sure about references to orcs or huns but other references are funny and show some degree of being able to inject humour to it all. I'm thinking specifically of "The Forces of Darkness" which I think is a great moniker for them.
I also from time to time venture in to the venom and poison that is FollowFollow.com and their references to us as the "mhanky mob" the "scum" and "tattie-munchers" are the printable references,some get much worse but all it does is convince me that they have a serious lack of humour.
Our old friend EdwardUrsas makes some salient points and does not deserve to be subjected to disrespectful and ignorant prejudice from us so on that we agree.
However our fiercest rivals will always be to me TFOD and no plea for respect will change that.
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P8ddy
Just wrote a big reply but it seems to have been lost in the ether. I'll try again in a minute.
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tfod is used by other teams in the spl, not exclusively Celtic. I work with Aberdeen and Hibs supporters and they regularly call Rangers by tfod.
I agree we should be respectful but tfod is more humour than insult.
Otherwise p8ddy spot on with your post @5:40pm
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Kudos to BBJ last night.
I was critical of him after the Hibs game but he made the difference.
I think a fellow poster described him as the enigma.
At the time I thought that meant fat, lazy b@*^&)
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hi paul .fellow celts . would just like to comment on the neil lennon story in the times "see link above "i have never read such a brave and honest article and i think we celts should give the writer,a huge pat on the back . my god to think the utter guff that gets sprouted from the red tops/sports programmes in this country and the biggest crime of all is the fact that some of our own still buy the rags and take part in their programmes.please read this article from a journalist devoid of any hidden agenda /what a refreshing read
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Paul67,
Brilliant summation,as usual.
But the phrase, "A Work In Progress",is a tad too mild!
The Sign at the Celtic Building Site ..........Should Read......
"New Contruction in Progress.
We beg our FANS' Indulgence, Understanding and Forgiveness, for the Inconvenience!
Normal Efficacious Activity will Resume in the Very Near Future!
In the Meantime...........
All Revilers, Cavilers, Carpers, Worriers, Quibblers and Followers of Momus..........
KEEP OUT!!
Thanks You for your Forbearance,
The Celtic Management.
Old Lilliputian Proverb:
'A Condemnation Presented before the Task is Completed.......
Is the Mark of a Child and a Fool!
Miss Pennypacker.
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p8ddy
"We need a manager who knows the position his players operate in. If Gordon Strachan does not know something as simple as this by now we're in deep trouble."
p8ddy,to be fair MON employed this tactic of playing players on the opposite side to which they were comfortable for a large proportion of last season.Now he had five years to appraise the relative strengths and weaknesses of the players at his disposal and still managed to make this mistake.
WGS is still learning about this squad so perhaps he wanted to see if this would work with the players he had at his disposal last night.Also in Strachan's favour is that at least the attacking full-backs he employs provide width going forward,something we did not enjoy when MON was bamboozling us with this particular tactical gem.
That said,I'm not a fan of this tactic but at least he tried it.Your comment seems like an extreme criticism to me due to the fact that it's essentially the first time he has tried that for a full 90 minutes.Were you as critical as MON for doing the same last season?
This question is not sarcastic or meant to provoke,I'm genuinely interested in your answer.
BankieBhoy
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A pity for Beattie last night- a big chance for him and he blows it, and then BBJ pops up and saves the day.
Shaun was great, Naka good, Magic quiet, and Bobo appalling.
Also kudos to Phil Gordon in today's Times (link above I think). Very, very brave article.
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p8ddy
Ok I'll try again here's hoping it actually appears.
Your comment does a great disservice to those of us who harbour real concerns for our club. Whilst your commitment to the cause of Mr Strachan is laudable, please refrain from doing so at the expense of fellow posters on CQN
Your comment implies that I don't harbour concern for our club and nothing could be further from the truth (as well you know). My commitment to Mr Strachan stretches to giving him time and supporting the man in charge which is laudable I agree with you there. You also failed to quote another part of my post where I said "All I've been calling for in Strachans reign has been a bit of common sense, if he's getting it wrong consistently then we'd be mad to continue with him in charge". So we both want to give him time, for that reason no disagreement there either.
This time last year we were top of the league. Progress? I happen to think the league position tells little - certainly, one lesson learned from last season is that the league table in September gives no indication as to our coming fortunes (or misfortunes).
This is a weird point you quote the league position last year at me (to show our lack of progress) then tell me to ignore early league position?
Well to be clear I was talking about progress since Artmedia and Motherwell.
I disagree. There are posters on here who remember all too well the "bad old days" and will do anything to avoid returning to them. Further there are posters on here who regard Celtics natural place as being at the top of the table and who consequently will fight like tigers to avoid the slip back down.
And I'm one of those people we just differ in the way we choose to fight. Our aims here are the same, which I’m sure, you'll acknowledge.
Did you think last nights result was important?
In terms of building up a team every game is important from pre-season to the last game, I'd think this was obvious.
Also, as far as my recollection goes there has only ever been one post on CQN alluding to booing Mo Camara. indulging in tabloidesque fantasy is not in any of our interests! Maybe you could quote where any of us "dissenters" have advocated anything like booing Camara, or marching on the stadium. Sack Gordon Strachan now? Thats another matter, and one that will be resolved in the fullness of time. If he's a success, he's safe, if not, Thanks and goodbye. I have concerns about the manager, not groundless fears or pointless bias, but reasoned and reasonable opinions.
Give me strength I was exaggerating and I apologise for not including a smiley face at the end of the sentence. There was one "boo Camara" guy on here and he got the abuse he deserved, "marching on the stadium" is a cliché often used to describe unhappy supporters, as for Sack Strachan that's been said many times, and I've had issues with your reasoned analysis before as you know.
To suggest that posters have an unreasonable dislike of Camara is unfair
This one I was surprised at, can you honestly say that people coming on here and saying that Mo Camara is "the worst player to play for Celtic" does not display "an unreasonable dislike of Camara"? He's actually had that quote aimed at him during the last press conference. He's also been called names like "mince", "rank" etc which I will continue to take issue with. What is your definition of "an unreasonable dislike"?
That's a subjective view. How can you expect others to be convinced simply because you see something? Until there is some measurable success I'll take the 5th. I can debate statistics, but how can we debate opinion?
This is the kind of quote that gets you in trouble, I wasn't asking for a critical analysis just stating an opinion, you often get pulled up for this kind of pedantic stuff, and it's what puts a lot of people off reading your posts.
I think you'll find he did!
This was an interesting answer to the MON rebuild question, MON arrived with Boyd, Mjallby, McNamara, Petrov, Moravcik, Lambert and the magical Larsson. Do you honestly think that Strachan is in the same position?
He has the aging quadrille of Lennon, Sutton, Varga and Thompson the injury prone Agathe, and Balde who was looking for a move up to the transfer window closing. Only Petrov, Hartson, Marshall McGeady and Pearson have a real long-term future at the club and some would even take issue with me about Hartson, Marshall, McGeady and Pearson!
I've left out Maloney and Beattie as they've been a major plus this season but were hardly regulars under O'Neill.
Given that at one point last year we were 12 points ahead in the league and only narrowly lost it, that we performed acceptable in Europe, I wouldn't have thought the scale of the rebuild was that great
I know this one was aimed at Paul67 but I just had a few questions. Who or what do you blame for the slump from 12 points ahead to losing the league? You talk a lot about the high standards you want for Celtic so how did the standard of football last year and the end of season collapse sit with you? Would you have been happy to see MON try and rebuild the playing squad? bearing in mind that Camara was a MON transfer pick.
Finally I agree with your call to other posters and I have myself as you've probably noticed been doing this for a while already.
Hope this actually posts this time and here's to plenty more jousts. :o)
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Bankiebhoy
Re tactical question to P8ddy
"Were you as critical as MON for doing the same last season?"
Another good question and one that I actually missed.
Thanks.
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P8ddy
Any chance of you coming down from that really high horse of yours - your comments about "please stop calling me names Mister, we are ssoooooo morally superior.." are just laughable.
Get a grip son, the Huns are Huns, Orcs, "ra peepul".etc......chill out man.
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Re playing Nakamura and Maloney on the 'wrong' wing. Did the first goal not come from a cross field pass from Naka on the right to Maloney breaking in from the left?
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"miss"moneypacker.
Fargo
Dwango
Kelso
Bigjoefromtherigsthatnowlivesin
spainbutcantpostforamonthbecause
he"hastogobacktowork"-
ARE YOU ALL DISGUISES OF THE SAME PERSON ?
something smells
I think we should be told..........
noel.
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Anybody know what this story was about?
From NewsNow
Barcelona Striker Saviola in Celtic Admission
Talk Soccer 22:21 21-Sep-05
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sorry-
that SHOULD have read "miss"? pennypacker...
noel.
-
Sir Paul,
F.Y.E.O.......
Just for you,pal.....Just for you.
There's a Mess brewing in River City,
"Trouble, Oh! We got Trouble,
Right Here in River City,
With a Capital "T",
That Rhymes With "C",
And Stands for "Cash",
We surely Have Trouble,
And This Is JAKE!!
Here on the Mountain Known as Snake!
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Mark "Tim" Molloy
They're old stories that crop up occasionally if you go to the Rangers page you'll see similar old stories about Nonda, and Hakin Yakin etc
I'm off home soon so P8ddy if you reply tonight I won't see it till the morning.
Talk to you's tomorrow.
Hail! Hail!
-
Django-
where,s the
rest
of
your
alter-egos ?????????
noel.
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I really dont care if the Orcs find anything we call them offensive.I find all that institution stands for and its adherents offensive.
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Mark "Tim" Molloy
the saviola story is old news - its actually from last year when Barca were looking to loan him out and we were one of the options.
Every now and again NewsNow puts out a news story from its database which is, for example, 24-Sept 2004 - but it regurgitates it as 24-Sep 2005
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Re-Paul LeGuen-
just for curiosity-
what is he doing with himself ?
noel.
-
noel90,
he'sliving...
in........spain
wibibjoe
faetheriggs
butnowlivesin
spainandmisses
thetennant's
lagerandnow
keepsitshort
-
-
Checkout the Sports Diary in today's Herald re Lennon.
Thank you Mr Spiers. (again)
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SanFran_Tic, I was just a bhoy then, I left CNHS in 92 I think.
Franklyns has went down hill, infact no so much as down, but fell right off the hill, shame used to be a right good pub.
-
I,ll just try that again-
Shabhoy-
didyoumeanthatheisnowlivinginspain
withbibjoefaatherigsthatisprobably
inthedogsinnwiththerestofhistitle
winningteammatesgettingmadontherioja
becausehehastogobacktoworktomorrow
andcantpostforamonthorbecausehehas
toletoneorotherofhisaltaregoslike
fargoorkelsoordwangoormissmoneypacker
takeaturnorhaveijustgotitallwrong
again?
:>)
noel.
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Noel90.…………………………….........
Have you been on the Rioja M8.……………
How can I be all them……………….
I have enough trouble……………..being me…………….
BigJoe………………………………........
Whoisoff2worktomorrowforamonth
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Noel90.…………………………….........
I never read Fargo……………….
I did for a while but couldn’t…………….
Make head nor tail of it…………………
I just scroll down…………………………
I think he is good for the site……….
But just cant get my head round it……………………..
BigJoe………………………………........
Whoisoff2worktomorrowforamonth
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noel,
aye,
what a pool team that would be,
fargo, django, kelso,
miss pennypacker and bibjoe?
-
Noel90.…………………………….........
As I stated B4.……………………….
I am from…………………..
Campbeltown…………………….
But now stay in Spain…………….
Who plays for……………….
“The Dogs Bar“……………..
Playa Flamenca………………………………...
Orihuela Costa…………………
Alicante Spain……………………………..
Who are the CHAMPIONS…………………………
BigJoe………………………………........
Whoisoff2worktomorrowforamonth
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Paul67 and friends…………………
I will miss u lot…………
Have posted on and off …………………
For over a year………………….
But got right in2 it this time…………….
Live long and prosper………………………..
BigJoe………………………………........
Whoisoff2worktomorrowforamonth
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P8ddy, I know where you are coming from. Let me put it like this:
When Falkirk got a corner in the 89th minute last night I thought ‘if they score here Celtic are going to be plunged into turmoil’.
They didn’t, but the general standard of play we are watching at the moment makes me think that a defeat along these lines is a distinct possibility.
We are three points above our principle opponents, albeit behind a new challenger. A defeat or two will not necessarily mark the end of our league chances, but the internecine trauma that could result might.
With eight months of the season to go I believe there is enough to play for to put the valid concerns you (and I) have to one side and do our best to steady the ship. Winning the league this season is of the utmost importance and we should do everything in our power to steady the nerves.
On your separate point about referring to Rangers and the newspapers by their correct name I completely agree. I never use the derogatory terms here, as you say, doing so speaks more of us than them.
Happy 82nd Birthday Joe McTaggart
Takes less than a minute apparently.
SanFran Tic, I left in ’84 after 5th year. I have had happier days, but not many.
Gerry, not enough information yet to tell.
Miss PennyPacker, it sure is a construction site, however, let me sharpen the analogy. On a construction site you can see steady progress. This is not the way when building a football team. Many weeks will go by without apparent progress.
The watching crowd will say ‘Progress, bah!’. It will take months, and all we can do is hope they continue to grind out results in the mean time.
Django, you sure can knock out a tune. Thanks for the nod, I am checking daily for the accounts, albeit I expect them to have a similar shade as the rest if the group.
The potential trauma over the river would be enormous; generational, you could say.
Lets hope it strengthens our resolve, not weakens it.
Ardmaca, drop me an email, Dick Byrne has an offer of help.
Big Joe, we are all going to miss you. Take care on the rigs and come back full of stories about mermaids.
Sitting here in the dark with Mrs67, during our second power cut of the month, grateful for the joys of 3G.
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Need a bit of help-off to Orlando in a couple of weeks.Anyone know where we can watch the Bhoys.
Will be in your part of the world next July, BigJoe-mines a large one.
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Paul-
where I come from-
a power cut means your power card-
has run out.......-
hope this is not the case..
BIG JOE -
I was kidding !
You have a brilliant sense of humour and a posting style allofyourown-
Hurry back
noel.
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sorry blame bigjoe! should end top
of the league!!
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-
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Paul67
Were you in the same year as Paddy Kearny, Joe Dowdles, Tommy Cull, Ricky Graham etc.
I am a Viewpark bhoy so those are most of the guys I remember from a year below me.
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did anybody just see-
jonathan woodgates debut for Real Madrid ?
This is the lad that Newcastle paid £8,000,000 to Leeds-after the racial assault trial-
This is the lad who-in three years at Newcastle-spent two and a half of them in the treatment room.
This is the lad-who signed for Real Madrid for £12,000,000-and has spent the 13months since- on the injury list.
Tonight,on his long awaited debut-
scores a peach of an own goal after 28 minutes.
Gets a deserved yellow card after 37 minutes.
Gets his second yellow for obstruction on 79minutes........
and walks !
His team scraped a 1-1 home draw against Atletico Bilbao.
If I ever here another bad word against Phil O'Donnell.....
noel.
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P8ddy,
So you think that we shouldn't call then HUNS?
Take it from me that's me being polite, I've got a few others!
Celtic v Orlando Lions back in 88/89 think it was. Walking by the very spot that young boy was murdered. The shout was "Ya dirty Fenian B......." when glibly I responded "I can't be I've a birth certificate... have you?"
Young and foolish i thought as we were chased down the road, still got the scar on the back of my head.
So pardon me not following your line... Oh and the papers, well I would never use the word "Retard" anyway, but the sun&record are both "papers" i dislike and never buy them, written by HUNS with typewriters. Did you hear that KINGY!!!
I give respect where it's due i don't respect those who don't respect me or what i believe in simple as that.
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Jeez Paul,I know Lanarkshire's in something of a time warp but power cuts? Is electricity still nationalised in Carfin?
I noticed that you said you understood p8ddy's concerns,but I think we all do.I share a lot of common ground with p8ddy in the appointment of WGS to the role of what is effectively head coach at Celtic,a quick check back to my posts at the time of his appointment would prove this.
I think the difference between p8ddy and a lot of posters on here is that we are prepared to give WGS the time to prove us wrong.We all want success for Celtic but each of us have different ideas as to how we should achieve it.
As it happens,I agree p8ddy that Le Guen would have been an excellent appointment.But,and it's a huge but,do you think that a team that died on it's arse at Fir Park and to be fair was rank in the CL,really only required a bit of tweaking when not only the personnel had to change but the style of play too?
I'm not sure of your thoughts on MON p8ddy,but I think a sense of realism is required when assessing what WGS inherited when MON left.This was not a team that required to be tinkered with,this was a side that required an overhaul,both in personnel and style of play.
Which leads me to my final question,which is pure conjecture: If Le Guen had been appointed,does anyone think that given the scale of the task that would have faced him,with lots of players leaving,cash restrictions on bringing new players in and dealing with a new footballing culture,that by this stage in the season we would be watching a fluent Celtic side carrying all before them in the SPL?
BankieBhoy
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I was at the Falkirk match last night and I hope that WGS does not ever play Chris Sutton in the middle of the park, he is too slow both in thought and execution and IMO should only be considered as a Centre Forward, nothing else. Play to your strenghts again IMO he is the best target man in the SPL. That will of course lead to a direct choice of who to play alongside him and I would go for Majic.This might though lead to an asset maagement situation come January but that among other roles is what WGS is paid for.
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My old friend,Bankiebhoy,
I am glad that you brought up this particular point of discussion.
What I am about to promulgate is absolutely, no reflection on your posting.
Claro?
Bear with me for a moment.
Do you or anyone else, think for a second, that one can logically discuss whether the appointment of M.Le Guen would or would not, have been a Stellar Coup for Celtic?
Are we, on this hallowed harbor, plumbing the depths of incredibility?
I for one, do not think that we should go down that road.
Good solid common sense is the Watchword in the House, that Sir Paul Built......... Lest us not forget!
Differences of opinion are healthy and should be encouraged...
But making Specious Prognostications in regards to Maybes and Suppositions, is visiting the benighted Realm of Cabbalistic Mumbo Jumbo.
Leave that Malarkey to Ms Madonna!
"Ifs and Ands" should remain strictly in the Lore of the Tinker!
Who said that?
I just did~
Miss Pennypacker.
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cavansam @ 7.45 p.m.
No problem.I'm not on here to have a go at p8ddy.It's just that I'm always interested as to how people form their opinions.I agree with some of what he says,but not all of it,as you would expect as we are all individuals.
I feel that there is sometimes a tendency to deify MON and demonise WGS amongst our support.MON gave me the best Celtic-supporting days of my life,but the last year was torture.If you are going to compare WGS with MON I feel you have to do it on what MON left behind not what he done in the first four years.WGS did not inherit mainly players in their prime,he inherited players whose best days were,and are,behind them.
WGS is sowing the seeds of a new Celtic and by the end of the season we will have a better idea of whether he has what it takes to carry us to the CL level we aspire to.I hope he does take us to that level,not because I like WGS per se,but because if he can it means we will have been successful.This is more important than me,you or p8ddy being right or wrong.None of us can ask for more than that.
BankieBhoy
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Bankiebhoy-
I think myself,maybe yourself-
possibly a few thousand others
made the link with the rumours of MONs resignation and the statement that Paul LeGuen had handed in his notice at Lyon.
12months previously Mr LeGuen -and his goalkeeper, Hector Coupe had been on Champions League television praising Celtic Park as"the best stadium in Europe" and along with Juninho Paulista[the Juninho we should have signed]and Elber saying "The Celtic Support is the best we have ever witnessed
and we would love to be a part of them -but not this year"-They HAD just knocked us out.-
So-we are all behind Gordon Strachan.
But(for curiositys sake)-
where is Paul Le Guen ?
noel.
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miss pennypacker
My dear lady,the question I asked was rhetorical although it may not have seemed so.It does us no good to second guess what might have happened if anyone but WGS was captaining the good ship Celtic.It would be an exercise in futility.
I prefer to deal in reality.WGS is the man in charge,WGS is the man given the responsibility of bringing success to Celtic.That's good enough for me.I will stand behind him until I can no longer see the green shoots of recovery.As it stands,this seems a long way off at the moment and I for one hope that the day never comes,as like I said,it will mean a successful Celtic and that is what we ALL want.
BankieBhoy
P.S. Forget about Stella,I'm currently basking in the afterglow gleaned from drinking Hoegaarden and Leffe.Makes Stella seem like a lager tops!!!
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sorry to interrupt - we did sign Juninho Paulista, you may be mixing him up with Juninho Pernambucano :-P
Just my little input.
~ ~ ~ Magic's Barber ~ ~ ~
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noel
For what it's worth,which is very little,the last I heard Le Guen was in talks with Dinamo Kiev about their head coach position earlier this month.
Although it matters not a jot.
BankieBhoy
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zurawski's barber
Could you please sort his hair out?
BankieBhoy
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My old friend, Bankiebhoy,
Before I proceed, may I hasten to apprise you of the fact, that I categorically excluded your posting from my dissertation:
I quote directly from my posting.
" What I am about to promulgate, is absolutely no reflection on your posting.
Claro?"
I have the highest opinion of your solid reasoning and factual postings.
Have no fears in that regard.
I would never dream of classifying you with any part of my critical remarks in my last posting.
I consider Mr.BankieBhoy one of the GOOD GUYS!
MissPennypacker.
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Im still stunned to find out carfin has electricity in the first place.
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Hi Paul,
I've noticed a bit of talk about G.Strachan coming up again, if he is to be compared in anyway to M.O'neil shouldn't he be given five years before that comparison can truly be made, my on opinion (or maybe wish) is that he may build a team more in the T.Burns model playing fast open football, but maybe lacking in punch, perhaps in the mold of Shunsuke san. (sorry Paul but we had to go back to disagreeing at some point).
Noel90 :- As far as I know Paul Le Guen is considering an offer fro Dynamo Kiev and will let them know his decision at the end of the month, though there may be later news on this that I haven't seen.
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miss pennypacker
Thank you.My post was of the belt and braces variety.I just wanted to ensure that you were under no illusions as to my interest in an "ifs and ands" scenario.
Celtic first and Celtic always.
BankieBhoy
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i think it's beyond repair - I'll perhaps give him a 'Boruc' next time :-D
~ ~ ~ Magic's helpless Barber ~ ~ ~
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Zurawskis barber-
thank God somebody knows their Juninhos
And there was me thinking it was little Juninho Pernambucano that had had an awful fright on Air France when it was really Juninho
Pernambucano.......
bibjoethatlivesinspainbutyou
knowitwasnotreallyhimbecause
heisbackatworkandcantpostfor
thenextmonth
noel.
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My old friend, Bankiebhoy,
You bring up the subject of the deelightful Stella.
Now let me make this perfectly clear:
Whenever, my goodself or one of my compadres refer, to a Stella.....
We are so fondly re-living the subtile promises and abandonments of the Real Pukka Stella, which we were collectively introduced to, in the Taverns of old Tel el Kabir.
You have not lived,my friend until you have partaken of the heady essence of the Real Pukka Stella.
And it cost the equivalent in those days of 5 old pence.
I am certain, if you ever have the good fortune to find yourself in Downtown Cairo, in a darkling cosy bar, you will undoubtedly partake in a sizzling sample of the Real Pukka Stella!
By the way, we ARE discussing STELLA BEER.......or ........
ARE we?
All of the above is predicated on your particular libation being STELLA ARTOIS....... a poor Belgian Knock-OFF....
Of The One, The Only STELLA BEER!
MMMMMMMMMMMMM!MMMMMMMMMM! Good~
MissPennypacker.
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Bankiebhoy,Edward Ursus-
cheers !
I was just trying to work out how a man/coach as intelligent as Paul LeGuen.......
was still picking up a giro-
12Weeks after jacking it all in !
noel.
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Real Madrid won 3-1,
goals from robinho , raul (2)
a man down and stood up to be counted in second half , lived life dangerously but class shone through in end.
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BankieBhoy
You should try some Polish Zywiec (SP?) beer... puts Stella to shame!
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Returned from the reserve match hours ago but had relatives up tonight. Edited highlights: Du Wei looks GOOD enough to be a contender for a first team place but central defenders need to be able to communicate. Our poor Chinese friend looked bemused at times, which is understandable given that he was up against Hibs striker Amadou Konte - perhaps the most technically bereft forward I've ever seen - and was partnered by Adam "King of the Blooter" Virgo.
Agathe didn't look fit and McGeady needs to get his head up a bit. The skill's there, he just has to use it better, especially when it comes to playing simpler passes and keeping possession.
Oh, and Ross Wallace is definitely being groomed as Mo Camara's stand-in.
Full report and man-by-man comments on:
http://celticfcblog.blogspot.com
Cheers,
JohnBhoy
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My Dear Friends
I appreciate the advice as to my choice of tipple.Although I have been known to partake of the Belgian substitute,I have not yet been fortunate to sample the delights of the "Real Pukka" in Tel el Kabir.That is for another day.
It would be fair to say that my weapon of choice is not the Belgian Stella.Increasingly Leffe, which I was fortunate to stumble across,has become the queen of my heart.Has anyone else been so fortunate as to sample her delights?
In the meantime,could malone19 point me in the general direction of where I can find a source forthis "Zywiec"? I have an inquisitive mind and a throat that demands to be quenched on an increasingly regular basis.
BankieBhoy
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JohnBhoy
Glad to hear that Du Wei is settling into footballing life in Glasgow.
Perhaps Virgo is the ying to Du wei's yang.Uncompromising centre-half alongside footballing centre-half.Reiper & Stubbs type combo perhaps.I pray that Monsieur Kennedy comes back fit and well as JK alongside Du Wei is perhaps the closest we as Celtic fans will come to footballing Utopia in our back four.
Thanks for taking the time to post so late.
BankieBhoy
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Looking forward to getting a response from p8ddy tomorrow(today?)in bold.
Do not deny me.
BankieBhoy
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Paul,
don't agree with some of the criticism of Bobo re Falkirk. I think we looked solid in the first half. We looked fragile when the midfield couldn't get a tackle in, and let people run at us. Goals end up in the net, but they start elsewhere.
JohnBhoy, enjoyed your report on the reserves.
As for the rest of you, Stella is my wee blonde pal. Leave her alone:)
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noel90
3-1 to Real Madrid - 2 good goals by Raul
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Is that Leffe stuff the beer in the brown bottle(?) with the yellow label and it tastes of fruit (bananas, I think)?
Vile stuff!!
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BankieBhoy
Many people have stumbled after coming across Leffe.
For adventurous tastes, the beer section in what was Safeways at Anniesland was always worth a visit, with a range of powerful and tasteful beverages from around the world. But now that it's Morrison's it may have gone to the dogs along with the rest of the shop.
The Oddbins superstore on Crow Road is also a good source of variety, although beer isn't its specialism.
I'll be back there next week. Can't wait. All you can get out here is Kingfisher, or the odd case of Heiniken that's been smuggled over the state line.
While I'm on, just a thought for all. When is the last time "the worst ever Celtic player" (this month - my addition) had the worst Celtic performance on the park?
Hugh from Madras.
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Welcomed the spirit of your post Paul 67,
Also happy to see that 'patience' is now at the fore when it comes to the performance of Gordon Strachan and the reconstruction of the team...
P8ddy...Are you Bill O'Reilly of Fox News....? The similiarity in tone is....uncanny..
Peace Out..
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Kronenbourg Premier Cru
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!
Most of the supermarkets sell it.
Nice blue bottle.
6%ABV!
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baba 5:45 PM yesterday, couldn't agree with your comments regarding Stan's lack of effort and Shun's freekicks.
Having been at PH I could hardly believe that Stan would play the way he did given that he was given the skippers armband and his recent form.
On Shun's freekicks, I must ask, has no-one at PH seen the Zura video with all the amazing freekicks?
He seems to be coming into his own right now so it would be very worthwhile if they gave him a run at them as he could do no worse than those skied the other night.
For those who haven't seen them or just like to view them again here's the link to Zura's goals - http://media.putfile.com/MAGIC98
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Kronenbourg Blanc.
Lovely.
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shabhoy...
Celtic will never be allowed to play meaningless games.
Sorry, I didn't mean the game was meaningless - I agree that no game is meaningless, but the result was unimportant. We had a "get out of jail free" card as regards the result, whilst the opportunity was there to try something different. To give Du Wei or Virgo a run out, to give Aiden McGeady a chance to rebuild his confidence etc etc. To me it was an opportunity lost.
/p
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BankieBhoy 11.56PM
I'm not having a go off P8ddy either by the way I would rank him as one of the people I respect most here.
Ok he can drive me mad with some of the pointless points he makes, but most of the time he talks sense and he has the clubs interests at heart, but I too was curious about last season as I've only known the guy this year and I can't imagine that he was too happy with anything that went on last year. From signings to the quality of football to the capitulation at the end of the league season.
And I agree with you comparisons between what MON inherited to what WGS has inherited are completely unfair. Larsson alone would improve the current squad amazingly, without including Lubo, Lambert and Mjallby. So expecting instant success is unrealistic.
I agree with your last paragraph too and I've often stated the same.
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Just logged in for a quick llok before i set of to work.
I don't have time topost detail or back up my statement at present so please forgive the brashness of my message.
Paul,what a lot of tosh.
We are boring to watch,pedestrian,lack any form of pace,lack any ability to stop the other team playing when Lennon is not in the side.
We only looked threatening against Falkirk once we reverted to BBJ up front supported by Sutton being moved from his holding role,al la MON.
When we were beaten by Inverness we fielded a much weakened side ,not almost our strongest eleven. We also away from home,however it was still a very bad result.
Kid yourselves on if you like, this will all come tumbling down about us.
If you think we weren't trying against Falkirk then that in itself is as big a condemnation of Mr Strachan as any.
We didn't pay millions for Maloney,thank christ he's the worst finisher in the forward line.
We did pay millions for Naka,he was awful,i expect a hell of a lot more from him.
The jury is still out for many on Mr Strachan, believe me at the end of this trial he will be found guilty of wasting millions.
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Chennaiseabird, the Crow Road Oddbins also has (or used to - haven't been in for a while!) have a belter of a bird behind the counter - always made the purchase of said beverages all the more enjoyable. The great Swaggle Dance, Ruddle's County and Black Sheep Bitter were all good on a champions league night!
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Sorry to go off topic, but......
CALLING ARDMACA!!!!!
I posted a couple of days ago saying that I would possibly be able to help with your ticket problem (no expenses involved) but I don't think that you saw it.
I have already passed my e-mail address to Paul67 (see his post above at 9.51 p.m.) & if you do the same he will put us both in touch.
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Just a quick post on two things one an apology to mo camara. I don't rate him as a long term celt but aftre a few threads ago slagging him off i have to say thanks for all the effort he is putting in.
Secondly is lads get the green tinted glasses off. I have been at every game we are awful. Yes its a team in progress but we are erratic at the back, lethargic for at least half the game in midfield and with the talent we have up front our goals for column is not what it should be.
Hibs deserved a draw on sunday, Falkirk should never have taken us to extra time.
Yes we must be patient but anyone on here who things it's all fine and Dandy needs a reality check.
Finaly if maloney could score what a player but even without the goals he lfits the game everytime he plays so go on wee man the goals will come.
Oh ps is it a sin to hope the huns beat the cousins of wiliam so we catch up on them. If so how many hail marys will i get?
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BankieBhoy...
p8ddy,to be fair MON employed this tactic of playing players on the opposite side to which they were comfortable for a large proportion of last season.Now he had five years to appraise the relative strengths and weaknesses of the players at his disposal and still managed to make this mistake.
It's a good point, but one I fear that does not exactly corrolate. By that I mean that it depends on the personel utilised in that switch. With some players it works and with others it doesn't.
MON made many mistakes in his last season, no doubt. I think though that we can recognise the reasons for these. The collapse/mistakes had more to do with events outside of football affecting his work. Thats not to make the mistakes any better than Gordon Strachans, but it is to offer a mitigating circumstance.
To an exent also, O'Neill gets the benefit of the doubt due to his past record - something that Gordon Strachan doesn't have. I know that might be unfair, but the marking criteria is different. We have to recognise that. It's easier to forgive a mistake when 90% of your decisions in the past have been proven correct. With O'Neill is was a tick in the small list of failures with Gordon Strachan it's another tick in what (to some) is a litany of bad decisions.
I've tried not posting on this recently because I am trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. As I've said before, I want him to be a rip roaring success. I also don't want to be seen as some sort of one issue troglodyte.
I am giving Gordon Strachan time, I am not rushing to judge, it's just that so far the bad outweighs the good. I don't see the type of football that was promised and I don't see moves toward that, rather I see a return to the Tommy Burns style of football, that was in my eyes, utterly toothless.
Time will tell, and the last part of my statement was utterly subjective, although the stats do back me up to an extent.
Onward and upward for the 'tic!
/p
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p8ddy,
I too was surprised that Agathe and one or two others didn't play.
However, with Lennon being out (and sorely missed) I think WGS didn't want to gamble too much.
If he had played Du Wei and Virgo and we lost the game, I think it would be detrimental to their development and confidence.
Have to disagree that the result was unimportant.
The League Cup is an integral part of the treble.
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Liking the beer discussions.
Anyone know where I'd be able to pick up a few bottles of KEO in glasgow? Definatley the highlight of my holiday in Cyprus.
Some of the wheat beers available now are pretty good, but ye cannae beat a cold can of Kronenbourg from the fridge.
Paul67 - on your electricity problem, you could always nip down to the grotto for some candles. As far as I was aware Carfin/Newarthill/Cleland/Holytown still worked under the 3-day week and sun-dials are common place in most gardens.
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OttoKaiser,
I think you will find that the areas you mentioned have the highest rates per capita of Celtic Supprters Cubs than anywhere else on this planet !
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We could have solved Paul's electricity supply problems by installing a wind farm around the BBC and some of their newspaper colleagues recently. If we could have trapped the hot air being generated over the NL situation then we could comfortably have kept Carfin alight (sorry, lit).
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Al Obundy, we had electricity, though not for long. We get around one power cut per month. I am not a happy Scottish Power customer – and Noel, no, it is not a power card deficiency.
Edward, our manager will come under pressure when results go against him, but he will be given time to sort things out.
Miss PennyPacker, agree, it undermines our cause to speak of others.
Spikeysoldman, comment deleted for language violation.
You tell him Conamara Bhoy.
Yes, scotcelt56, lit, not alight, please.
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Tinytim,
perhaps when you are so short of time it would be better not to post at all and wait until you can actually add something new or constructive.
Every reader of CQN is fully aware of your dislike for Strachan, not simply on the level put forward by p8ddy, backed by statistics and reasoned argument, but also because you find him, and I quote you "an annoying wee smart arse". I will not believe that this has not clouded your judgement to everything he does.
I put forward a point yesterday that we have to support at all costs this year and stand by it. With Celtic and Rangers squads inferior to years past this season's league race will be tense and possibly riddled with errors. Nerve will play a crucial role and people under pressure will make more mistakes than others. McLeish is already under severe pressure. A draw at Falkirk and the phone lines were jammed and the team booed off the park. He dedicated the win over Porto to the 'McLeish supporters'. I thought this was astonishing and a real tell tale sign.
So how about an amnesty on WGS until at least January. I totally respect all reasonable opinions but let's not make them self-fulfilling prophecies.
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Morning Gents....
Looking forward to this weekends game against the Highlanders..
I think the key for WGS is to learn to play a formation that accomodates Shunsukes play.
Yes he is lightweight in the tackle and not the quickest but he is one of only 2 players who can see the long raking pass and short incisive pass and make it.(Balde being the other- only joking)...
Don't know about you guys but I think the best we have played all season is against Dundee utd when Shunsuke was given a free role with others doing the donkey work behind him. For this reason I would play the following:
-------------Boruc------
Telfer--Balde---Macmanus---Camara
------Lawson--Petrov---Thompson--
-------------Naka----------------
------------BBJ--Zura------------
Is thommo fit?
I thought Camara had a good game against Falkirk so deserves to keep his place....As did maloney but unfortunately with both him and naka the midfield is too lightweight so Naka gets my vote...
Hopefully with Sutton coming back BBJ will be fearful of his place so will be full of running (I live in hope)
Saying all that I think WGS will go for Sutton playing in midfield again and pushing Naka wastefully out to the flanks....
On the beer front....ditch the overpriced leffe and move onwards and upwards to a true quality Heather ale called Fraoch....brewed in the Strathaven...true quality btw!!
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Rumoid
I notice Agathe is in the Herald pushing for a recall (not the best thing to do I might add), would you bring him back tomorrow at right back and push Telfer into Lennon's position in midfield?
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Morning All
New post on the weeks gubbings and weekend preview when the Clachnacuddian come marching down the road to the holy ground.
all available free of charge www.thelordofthewing.blogspot.com
Rumoid- nice beer mmmmmmmmmmm
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Dick Byrne, sorry for the delay in posting. How do I send Paul my e-mail address. Very new to this game.
Apologies Paul if you explained this before.
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ardmaca
Try 1967@lisbonlions.com
Cavansam...
If Agathe is fit I would have him in straight away....as he can cover the right flank more effectively than Telfer..IMHO...
As for telfer I wouldn't have him in the "Lennon" role.... As I've said before I'm not really too keen on the Lennon role against SPL teams as it invites the other teams on to us as we sit to too deep.. nor do I like playing players out of position. If Lawson is ever going to fulfill his promise we have to give him a run....I would rather have lawson learning than Telfer doing OK....
Lordofthewing...good to hear you're a man of good taste....
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Cavansam, I found Agathe's comments, if accurately reported, quite strange and almost akin to a "come and get me plea" to other clubs. However, I don't think WGS will change the defence until he is absolutely sure the guys to come in are a) match fit and b) up to the task (language etc). I think the midfield will be Naka, Petrov, Sutton and Thompson (if fit and Maloney otherwise).
Rumoid, Fraoch is OK but a bit flowery for my taste (not unlike some of the posts.....!). Bottles better than draught I think. The nectar of the gods for me - Caley 80/- on draught and McEwans 90/- in bottle.
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I see Strachan is coming under a heap of criticism for playing the left-footed Naka on the right and the right-footed Maloney on the left.
Has anyone stopped to consider that Naka's inability to tackle, his inept attempts at tracking back and his tendency to wander would leave Camara in a a state of disarray.
I figure Strachan feels that Telfer, a more reliable defender, is better suited to dealing with the effect of having a free spirit like Naka in front of him than Camara, whose positional sense is still a major weakness in his make-up.
I think it's worth remembering that Camara was selected by Martin O Neill's scouting network. The deal may have been fairly well advanced by the time Strachan came in so I wouldn't blame him for it.
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scotcelt56
Yeah the comments struck me that way too, almost like he was looking for a move but trying to cover his backside at the same time by saying he wants to be in the first team.
Does anyone truly believe the Juventus, Valencia stuff by the way or do you think this was just made up for the folks back home to read? I can believe Palace and Bolton might be interested but as much as I like the guy (and would love to see him back in the team) I can't believe that Juve were looking for him.
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This from Celtic.net -
Not that there weren’t chances; indeed, Du Wei was furious with himself just two minutes after the re-start when, after rising unchallenged to meet Paul Lawson’s drilled cross, he failed to test Nelson from a distance of around 14 yards.
....Du Wei pissed off because he never scored with a header from 14 yards!! What a guy.
Some mistake surely.
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can someone solve a disscussion before it gets out of hand.
did Neill Lennon get sent off in a league cup game against Rangers a couple of years ago.maybe the game Hartson scored the goal in the last minute that was ruled off side?
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Cavansam...
Ok I'll try again here's hoping it actually appears.
:-)
Your comment implies that I don't harbour concern for our club and nothing could be further from the truth (as well you know).
Sorry, that was not my intention. I don't think it does imply that - I was trying to point out that "our" (Timtim, NegativeAnon, cultsbhoy and a few others) concerns can't be boiled down to a reactionary "lowest common denominator". Just as you have hope, we have concerns. Our issues are not any less valid than yours, and that was my point. You did us a disservice by not actually ackowledging our concerns as anything other than groundless or mindless bias. Your point was that all we had to say was "We want Paul LeGuen" when in fact our concerns are legion. Our lowest common denominator is - Celtic first, Celtic last, Celtic always. Which is your lowest common denominator also.
I know you care for our club. I know that all posters on CQN care deeply for Celtic. If anything else was inferred from my post it probably says more about my poor grasp of the writen word than your support for Celtic.
This is a weird point you quote the league position last year at me (to show our lack of progress) then tell me to ignore early league position?
I was trying to point out that any argument based on league positioning at this point is apocryphal. Stats are only useful if they are complete records. Anything less and foundations are build on quicksand.
Well to be clear I was talking about progress since Artmedia and Motherwell.
Here is where we part company. Certainly, I don't think progress can be measured simply in results, and not over such a short period. For instance, John Barnes' team had made more progress than that of Gordon Strachan in terms of results at the same stage of the season, but that doesn't show the whole picture. For this reason, I feel that we cannot judge whether (or not) progress has been made. It's also why we must wait and see. I don't have issue with you feeling confident, it's a subject ive thing - you like it, I don't - I don't have an issue with that, but my main plank of concern was that you simplified our (my) concerns to that of primary one school child level. That our clarion call was that of the spoilt child "we want LeGuen or no one!" Nothing could be further from the truth. My concern is no more legitimate that yours, but I didn't post watering down your assertions. I didn't post saying "Glad to see the happy mob have stopped saying Strachan is alright". I respect your opinions, and view them as equal to mine. I simply want mine to be treated in the same way.
And I'm one of those people we just differ in the way we choose to fight. Our aims here are the same, which I’m sure, you'll acknowledge.
Absolutely! We are on the same side. Your are Stan Petrov to my Neil Lennon :-) (I think they are both wonderful players btw, Petrov positive Lennon defensive!)
In terms of building up a team every game is important from pre-season to the last game, I'd think this was obvious.
You grasped the nettle of my point. The game was important, the result not. By that I mean, the opportunity for discovery and giving players a chance outweighed the value of victory, although WGS differed in that view. As is his right. :-)
Give me strength I was exaggerating and I apologise for not including a smiley face at the end of the sentence. There was one "boo Camara" guy on here and he got the abuse he deserved, "marching on the stadium" is a cliché often used to describe unhappy supporters, as for Sack Strachan that's been said many times, and I've had issues with your reasoned analysis before as you know.
But your exageration was to the detriment of others, not in a positive or amusing way. Having a joke at others expense is often not the least bit funny for those singled out. What I'm saying is - Give equal weighting to the opinions of those you disagree with. I've no issue with your disagreeing, but plenty with over simplification or dismissal of posters comments as absurd. I know this was not your intention, but it goes back to this - respect for others. You're one of the good posters on here, your comments/opinions are well thought out and reasoned. I'd like it to stay that way!
This one I was surprised at, can you honestly say that people coming on here and saying that Mo Camara is "the worst player to play for Celtic" does not display "an unreasonable dislike of Camara"?
Yes I can. I'll say it again. In my opinion, Camara is the worst player I have seen in the hoops. I have respect for Mo Camara. I recognise that he's a much better player than I. That I don't rate him as a player doesn't entail I have any ill feeling for him. Also, my comments on Mo are based on cold hard fact regarding his career and what I have seen of him. There is no unreasonable in it.
"unreasonable" is an important word in that sentence. Unreasonable. That I do not like him as a player is a reasoned and considered opinion. An unreasonable dislike would be, for instance, to dislike him because he's black, because he's called Mo etc. Unreasonable dislike, as applied to Alan Thompson - where he's shouted at every week from the stands "You're an arrogant ***** Thompson!" "Coward!" etc. These are unreasonable. You over generalised because you stated that if the result went the wrong way there would have been calls for Mo Camaras' head regardless of his performance. As I stated, I thought he had an excellent game. I thought he was our man of the match. To suggest I (or any of my fellow dissidents) would blame Mo Camara was unfair and innaccurate.
This is the kind of quote that gets you in trouble, I wasn't asking for a critical analysis just stating an opinion, you often get pulled up for this kind of pedantic stuff, and it's what puts a lot of people off reading your posts.
That is also a subjective view.
You offered a very critcal analysis of my opinions when you watered them down and made them look asinine.
In my opinion, I have never been "in trouble" on this site. "In trouble" infers that there is a ruling class and an under class. This is a site of my peers in which we are all equal and all entitled to our opinions. People are free to read, or not read my musings. I don't ask to be read, just to get the chance to contribute.
This was an interesting answer to the MON rebuild question, MON arrived with Boyd, Mjallby, McNamara, Petrov, Moravcik, Lambert and the magical Larsson. Do you honestly think that Strachan is in the same position?
MON took a seriously underperforming squad and elicited wonderful performances from them. He took at poor team (containing all of the above) and transformed it. It's not the players you have, but what you do with them.
Certainly, MON was not the 8th highest spender in Europe when he bought his additional personell. Further, of the players you mention only 3 were regular picks at the height of his success - the Seville year (and the year after?) Lubo left in 2002, Jackie Mac played only 12 games, Mjallby 14. Boyd played in no games that season. As a contrast, Ulrik Laursen played 22 and he was regarded as dead wood. It could also be argued that Stan Petrov should now be at the height of his powers, coming of age. MON bought the others, who all fitted in immediately. As I say, compare and contrast, MON inherited a dispirited and underperforming side (John Barnes couldn't make a team of them) and transformed them. WGS has spent a considerable sum more (in terms of percentile to current market valuations for players) and here we are talking about more signings in the new year to replace some of the current crop of summer signings!
Who or what do you blame for the slump from 12 points ahead to losing the league? You talk a lot about the high standards you want for Celtic so how did the standard of football last year and the end of season collapse sit with you?
The slump was a catastrophe, no doubt. I don't buy this "the team died" stuff though. Sutton is 32, Thompson 31 and Lennon 34.
Christian Vieri is 31 - is he too old? Fabio Cannavaro at 33? Bixente Lizarazu played for Bayern Munich regularly at 34. More over, Zinedine Zidane is 33! He's a mainstay for Real Madrid.
What I'm saying is that the player over 30 assertation is rubbish. If he's good enough, he's young enough.
I have no doubt that the collapse of last season had far more to do with the personal problems of Martin O'Neill. It's understandable his eye wasn't on the ball so to speak. It's laudable he didn't walk out immediately his problems got more serious. I think the turnaround happened in the new year. That's when the rot set in. When Martins' concentration slipped, so did the team. Up until the new year, I thought the football played was OK. It wasn't great but it also was no where near as bad as the legend states. I don't "blame" anyone. untied we stand, divided we fall. It's not about blame, it's about what is best for Celtic. Martin O'Neill has to accept responsibility as football manager, but we all share the blame.
Would you have been happy to see MON try and rebuild the playing squad? bearing in mind that Camara was a MON transfer pick.
Yes I would have been happy with him rebuilding the squad, providing his personal issues were in the past. I also don't buy this Camara was a MON pick. Is Strachan a puppet of Martin O'Neill? If so, he's not fit to manage our great club, if not (as I think is the case) he has to accept responsibility for all the signings - no one forced the signings on him and he must take responsibility for them. He gets judged on his own merit. He gets credit for success and criticism for failure. Gordon Strachan chose to sign Mo Camara. Martin O'Neill did not sign him. Lets deal in fact and not conjecture. Lets at least give the man credit for being his own man.
Finally I agree with your call to other posters and I have myself as you've probably noticed been doing this for a while already.
Absolutely! I enjoy our little discussions :-) Anything that can provide a clear path forward for Celtic, of can open new lines of thought is always good. We disagree on tactics but are equal in our love for Celtic. Of course, my opinions are right! ;-)
/p
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waller1888, yes Lennon was sent off during the 2003 League Cup Final against Rangers.
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shot 'n half Paul67
this guy beside me had been phoning his mates to verify that he had only been sent off once as all the papers had been saying.
he is gutted(never argues unless he is right)
you have made my day.
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P8ddy
can I suggest please that you post your quotations from previous posts as italics rather than bold - Posting in bold makes them look the more important which may not always be your wish!
VertWolf
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Few thoughts - all this heracy talk of fancy dan beers in pretty little bottles with exlusive ranges and names, its Guiness every time a pint of the black stuff must be the Irish in me.
Once a Guinness man then everything else comes second. Tinytim did you fall out of bed the wrong side this morning. Nakamura played some wonderfull touches yes he can do more but that will come, personally I would have him on 500 press and situps a day.
Yes we can be scrappy at the back, new formation and all that, but we have only let in 1 goal in the last 4. We are not as bad as your making out and there are positve signs within the team.
Someone is in for a reet old doing off Celtic in the forseeable future. In addition it could have been, should have been 4or5-1 against Falkirk.
My main concern is no one seems to be taking charge at the back thats where we need a guvnor, can boruc play centre back lol, that sort of thing.
Maloney needs to work at his ball to net on the training field he will and he will come good.
Looking across the river at their aquisitions you takes your pick or plump for Magic , Naka and Boruc. I think these will all be good signings for us, WHEN they get the finger out and sign Boruc that is. WGS must have seen something in Virgo for him to pay 1.2 million for him and Du wei reports are favourable, its not all doom and gloom, its the weekend and the sons of william have to play each other, one or both will drop points. Mon the timaloy take advantage and secure a good win over the caley.
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Re my previous post I should have emphasised that Caley 80/- is a beer and not the total price of the ICT team - may be a close call though.
Well, if you can't have a laugh on a Friday......
P.S. My apologies to those too young to remember proper money.
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Just on the issue of playing Shunsuke and Maloney on the 'wrong' sides of the park.
I've got a mate thats been involved in coaching football for a good few years, done his badges etc. He spoke before of playing right footed players on the left of the park (and vice versa) to encourage them to come inside their man and move towards goal. Perhaps this was WGS plan, especially the fact neither of the players mentioned are exactly famed for their tackling, instead being recognised as players prepared to take their man on.
Just a thought!
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I find it very difficult to judge Celtic at the moment.
No-one can deny that MON left WGS with a major task.
In my my opinion, MON left Celtic more weaker than the side that he himself inherited.
I am not attempting to judge any of the players professionalism here but there those who were desperately trying to get out of CP last year. Celtic's tactics were route 1 and on occasions not acceptable. MON was happy with the long ball whereas WGS is happy for his players to work from the back, however possession football does not necessarily mean that you are going to win games.
For the life of me, I do not understand the role of Nakamura in the Celtic midfield. I found his performances of the past few games to be very substandard, however, he did set up Petrov for the goal against Hibs and his cross for BBJ to score was perfect. He can't tackle and his tracking back is not too great neither. I suppose you could say that Lubo was exactly like this. However, Lubo's performance were made up with other outstanding attributes. I have yet to see this from Naka. He had a fantastic debut but I sincerely hope that this is not the only flash of genius we will see of him (ala Juninho) and I realise that he is of a different culture but he is a professional.
I feel that there is no room in the same Celtic line up for Naka & Maloney. In previous matches, we've had the luxury of having Beattie and Maloney on the bench, so when a substitute is used, its guranteed that the tempo is going to continue, if not increase. I really hope that WGS gets it right and proves a majority of supporters wrong.
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I think that the major difference between Martin's and Gordon's task is EXPECTATION.
Martin had very little - bridge a 22 point gap, progress, win a couple of old firm games, a cup maybe. He exceeded everyone's expectation.
Gordon, well he's GOT to win us the league this year - simple as that.
I have both optimistic and filled with concern. I like what he is trying to do and I am very impressed with his use of substitutes so far. Having Beattie and Maloney in reserve (BBJ the other night) has proved a very good thing so far this season.
My major concern would be that he is trying to fit players to a formation...I think he should maybe identify the most suitable formation for the players.
His signings...better than 50 / 50 so far and that is all you can ask. Great managers end up with less than 50 / 50.
Boruc, Majiec, Naka, Telfer (suffers only as he is not Jackie) in the plus column.
Performances of Beattie, Maloney, McManus to be applauded.
It can go either way!
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Peatblog
Totally valid point. If it's about scoring goals directly then you are better to have a right footed player on the left and vice-versa. Unless you're going to hit it with the outside of your foot the natural curve of a ball will always be 'in-swinging'.
The problem we may find is that to use BBJ effectively we should really have guys hitting the by-line and whipping in crosses and that is being left ot Camara and Telfer. Once they're delivery improves (and it is improving) or are replaced by e.g. Wallace who delivers a fabulous cross, we may find we start posing a variety of goal threats, not one-dimensional.
As a left footer and winger myself I scored very few goals but those I did were generally from cutting in from the right when allowed to play striker. Funnily enough I was generally moved to striker when the manager had me in the sweep. Nakamura is also a far better tackler than I was!!
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P8ddy, Bankiebhoy,
Just to add my tuppence worth to the reasons for seemingly playing players out of position.
It was my understanding that WGS is playing the wingers on the "wrong" wing to allow them to cut inside to their good foot and double up as strikers and allow the full backs/ wing backs to double up as wingers.
After the home Artmedia game (where Ross Wallace was played on the right) he said "the gaffer wanted me to cut in and get a few shots off", this coupled with the fact that we are playing two quite attack minded (my way of saying, Not very Defence minded) full backs would support that idea.
Its an ambitious idea which relies heavily on Lennon to sit back and guard the CB's. In short 4-4-2 quickly changing to 3-5-2 when attacking.
It allows very attacking, 'Celtic', football and once perfected will pay dividends, BIG TIME! Incidently I think Didier is the missing piece in this Jigsaw (that one's for you BlantyreKev). Dont get me wrong I like Telfer but Didier is the pacey wingback we need.
TBE.
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Migsat30...
Any chance of you coming down from that really high horse of yours - your comments about "please stop calling me names Mister, we are ssoooooo morally superior.." are just laughable.
I believe that Celtic, morally speaking, are leagues above the other clubs in this country. And our fans likewise.
I won't accept being called "Tarrier", "Taig", "Fenian", "Mhank" or any other of the terms in the language of opression. We should afford the same consideration to Rangers fans, to Hearts fans, to players for the opposition, to the media. We have to rise above it if we are to make a case for our own unhappiness at our treatment.
You think it's laughable? Ask Mark Scotts' family or Carl McGroarty. Because thats where it ends.
/p
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VertWolf...
I love the bold! :-(
You wouldn't deny me a little bold would you?
:-p
You can't teach an old dog new tricks, how could I maitain my ire if it wasn't for the bold?
/p
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The Bald Ego, interesting comment:
‘Have the wide midfield players cut in and get the full backs supporting them to allow balance on each wing.’
It does sound v good in theory, which always has me panicking a bit. The best football we have seen from Celtic was when everything was simple.
As you say, who plays at full back will probably determine if it succeeds of fails.
I’ll look out for it tomorrow.
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TBE
just on the point about Agathe being the missing link. Perhaps WGS does see the team playing in that style, and remember the goals that Agathe scored for Hibs prior to coming to Celtic. I seem to remember that a few of them were when he cut inside and went through the centre of the park rather than going round the outside of a player. And anyway, I never rated him much at crossing a ball :-)
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Nakamura...struggling a wee bit. However, I don't think it was a problem to have him on the right. Remember our first goal?
That being said, I think the longer term solution is to have a hardworking and mobile mid 3, and let Nakamura roam. Anything else would be a waste. However, apart from Petrov, I don't see us having that mid 3.
It's a bit sad to see people waiting for Strachan to fail. For the record, I wouldn't have chosen him, but he's our Manager now, and I hope he wins every game. By a screesh of goals. For ever. Or longer:)
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Here's one for you P8ddy,
Keep this to yourself, but little do "THEY" know that when they are calling us "TAIGS" it is not in any way shape or form an insult!!!
Taig is Gaelic for Tim!! It comes from an old Irish story about "Taig an Dha Aidh" which means "Two faced Tim" (which I suppose could be construed as mildly offensive), I have a little chuckle to myself everytime I'm called one!
Not only are they unknowingly speaking Gaelige but they are calling us Tims! Which we are!
More of the same!
So next time your called a Taig smile and walk on, or reply
"oh! An bhfuil Gaelige agat?" and watch puzzelment ensue!
TBE.
Up the Taigs!
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The Bald Ego-
Sometimes it,s not what they but how they say it-
I have had "ya dirty good looking fenian b@*%>rd" thrown at me on
many occasions.....
I,m still not sure what part to take offence at.....
As for this beer debate.....
I,m off it.
:>)
noel.
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Just up on team talk-
Shaun Maloney says-
"John Hartson is worth his weight in gold...."
Surely that figure must be equal to the G.D.P of Belgium ?
noel.
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The Bald Ego...
Taken in context it's insulting. It's meant as a derogative term...
Same as Fenian, I'm sure most of the people that shout this would vomit if they realised the founding memebers of the Fenian movement were Presbyterian (Wolfe Tone, Robert and Thomas Emmet).
Being a taig is in no way a bad thing, but being called "taig" by some low brow sub-human with a single figure IQ grates.
I know what you're getting at - that the word in itself isn't insulting. Niether is Fenian, but I still object to it's misusage.
In it's common useage meaning in this country it's an insult. By people who have no respect for our culture, our values or our rights.
/p
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Noel90...
Quality post. Made me laugh out loud.
:-D
/p
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The Bald Ego...
Do you speak Gaelic? I must confess to knowing only a pitiful smattering of the language. My cousin attended the Gaeltacht in Galway - living there for a year, speaking only Gaelic.
She tried teaching me, but I was to busy learning Latin (at the time it seemed like a good idea - not sure why) :-)
/p
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Heres a thought. Celtics main problem is not the defence but the midfield. The reason Strachan played Maloney on the left and not Nakamura is down to the hole which has appeared at stages of every game we have played under him this season. Hibs switched Sproule to the left in the last half hour of Sundays game and his prescence there was enough to make it uncomfortable. Camaras answer to being faced with pace was to withdraw from the position he had occupied previously to go deeper so the Spoule couldnt get behind him. The result was a hole from about 30 yards from the bi line to the half way line. Pearson was asked to play in that position but for some reason moved inside all the time and failed to recognise the balls constantly played behind him during that period. Pearson also gave the ball away in around the left side of the half way line twice and failed to recover it.
Now playing Nakamura in this position is essentially a danger as he is not match fit yet (I hope). Camara is faster and more adept and overlapping than Telfer therefore more cover is needed for this side from a more defensive minded player. Wee Maloney is by no means the best tackler in the world but his low centre of gravity affords him the ability to recover space in defensive situations. Nakamura can play opn his natural left side as long as he has the pace to support him from his holding midfielder.
The key to the succes of Srachans philosphy is this midfiled player who essentially sweeps the midfiled picking up runners and making up for misplaced passes. Sutton is not a holding midfielder, he made two mistakes on Wednesday and one was punished with a goal. You cant have a holding midfielder tackling and then trying long range passes.
The difference in the midfield was vast when Sutton moved upfront and Petrov moved into the holding role. You know when a holding player is having a good game when you don't see him. Therefore I'd exempt Petrov from criticism on Wednesday. He was having a quiet game in the more forward central role but give the guy a break hes been running his guts out so far this season.
Strachans long term plan must be how to get that midfiled working and he must have a plan of how to get there. My guess is that Petrov is an option for the holding midfield role to replace Lennon in the long term. He is more mobile than Lennon but does not have the same sixth sense for trouble or ability to get out of it. However due to financiual restrictions he might have to play Petrov in this role until Paul Lawson matures enough or he can buy an adequate replacement.
It will be interesting to see who plays that role in the next two games. One of the positive aspects of Strachan is the transparency of his tactical plans. Martin Oniell stuck with the tried and tested, square pegs in round holes were neccessay and did not appear to have a long term strategy of replacing players. Starchans is clearly working on replacing lennon and his comments in the past support this.
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P8ddy-
My parents were both fluent-it was their native tongue-in Gaelic.
There are some brilliant swear words in Gaelic-T.B.E. might know some.
Its too early to bring them out just now-later- once Paul has gone to bed and I get back on that beer........
:>
noel.)
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From the Guardian rumour mill
"Finally, word is Graeme Souness is already preparing for his post-Newcastle career by putting in a good word for himself at Rangers, where, now that we mention it, he famously made a debut only marginally less ludicrous than Woodgate's: way back in 1986, 35 minutes into a match against Hibs, Souey's first as player-manager at Ibrox; he got sent off for raking his legs down George McCluskey's leg during a 21-man brawl. And just look, Jonathan, at all the success Souness has had since then."
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BlantyreKev - Not wishing to sound pedantic, but you state that Camara and Telfers crossing is improving! These guys are in the twilight of their careers. Improvements in a footballers game, are something that develops in their late teens and early twenties. If they dont have it now, they never will.
PS - 4-1 tomorrow. Petrov 1st scorer.
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Polarbear- new feature on www.thelordofthewing.blogspot that may interest you.
Its called the bonkers bet
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I'm more or less fluent in Gaelic, lets just say I can hold my own. Though haven't been using it in a while, since I left school really.
There are a few swear words but translated they dont mean much in English, so not sure what use they would be to you. Maybe we could use it to get around Paul's censorship regulations... just pulling your leg Mr67:)
On the Camara and Telfer debate, clearly they can improve at their age, has Camara not shown this already? But thats not the point I would try to make, more that they are cheap 'fill ins' until we get those positions filled by better class, they are by no means the Celtic future.
I would not put them in the Celtic class bracket they're more in the Vidar Riseth bracket- Not overly exciting but will do a job until someone better comes along.
TBE.
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Do you think there might have been a reason for having Naka and Shaun playing in the possitions they played last night?
Naka has played there the last few games because Thompson was on the left so I think Strachan didn't want to change things to much.
It could have been for defensive reasons maybe he felt Telfer could cope with the defensive problems Naka has or maybe he feels Camara could cope with any defensive problems Shaun may have.
It could have been he wanted them playing against a certain Falkirk player because he seen a weakness in them.
There could be a lot of reasons why GS decided to play them on their wrong sides.
Either way it doesn't really matter too much now anyway. I would like to see Naka on the left soon though.
I didn't think the performance was as bad as everyone makes out. It was a competent performance if not great. We could have one by more goals and restricted them to few chances and they never had a late surge like we are getting used to. The reason why the game was so un-inspiring for people was probally not so much the actual play of the game but the lack of atmosphere due to the really small crowd.
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thepolarbear
That is a very old-fashioned view on education. Just because it is not the done thing to improve on your abilities once you've went past a certain stage doesn't mean it's not possible. Strachan has stated that he wants everyone in his team to want to learn and improve. There isn't some magical boundary where we cannot get better at something just because we reach a certain age.
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TBE - as they say you can't teach an old dug new tricks. Just ask p8ddy :-)
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malone19 - I have to disagree. You are right though, in education there is always room for improvement, and an understanding of where you are going wrong, and working out what you need to do to improve. Not so in football. These guys have been playing as full backs for years. Surely there is a point when your skills begain to wain, rather than blossom??
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Sean see my post @11.35 for Shun and co apparently being out of position.
Polarbear, theres always room for improvement.. this can be said of anyone at any age, I'm sure Ronaldinho, after getting awards, doesn't go "thats it i'm the best why try harder" he will want to improve!
Regardless of age WGS will be saying this to everyone at training. At least he had better be.
TBE.
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Al Obundy 11.07
At last a man who talks sense...yes indeed a pint of the black stuff I say and away with the pussy,pretentious ,urine looking , foreign nonsense...... Furthermore..and keep this one to yourselves... a regular intake of the black stuff plus weetabix in the morning and your partner need have no further use for jump leads!
Now back to the fitba.....
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TBE - how many young footballers (16,17,18yrs old) fall by the way side, because they are not deemed "good enough". This is when their basic skills, and capability for development are determined. Football ability is either something you have or you dont. Sure... some areas of any particulars players repertoire can be improved on, but as an overlapping, dynamic wing back, surely the main pre-requisits are tackling, pace, positioning and crossing ability. Camara and Telfer have 1 each (Telfer maybe 2).
PS - I will continue to give both my full support, but would love to see both replaced!
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Dont worry polarbear I didn't think you were slating them, and they will be replaced in the near future.
Your point is right footballing ability is something you do or dont have- instinct cannot be taught.
I'm presuming that since both players have had a career in football that they do have that basic ability or instinct they rest can be coached. I'm not saying we can make world beaters out of them but the right coaching can bring players on no end.
look at some of our own finds, Sutton was seen to have had his best years behind him when he was at Chelsea, but with the right coaching and people with the right attitude around him he has become one of the best players to ever play in Scotland.
TBE.
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Fair do's TBE.
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fullback is one of the most specialised of the outfield positions and when a central defender and/or midfielder is asked to play there it often leads to disaster
so if a quality fullback becomes available we should snap them up
to go back to an earlier post from this week the last worldclass [ie would be in a planet earth xi]player we had was daniel f.mcgrain
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Just visited the offisial website to find out if thommo is injured for tomorrow and of course theres no info up yet....
I did notice that they have a new story up detailing the round up of today's gossip.........I don't know who runs that site but they should hang their heads in shame.....Why would we go to the official club website for gossip??????
Oh btw the beeb are reporting that thommo is still injured....Sutton in midfield it is then....
Scotcelt- agree on the caley 80 shilling....a very nice tipple...still won't beat the heather ale out of the bottle (as you said)
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Polarbear
Sorry m8, have to lay into you along with everyone else :P
The idea that you cant improve after your late twenties although widely held up until the mid 70's was proved to be absolute tosh in the early 80's. At first studies concentrated on mental aptitude and and memory - later studies showed that co-ordination and balance could also be improved well in to the 60's age group with willing and healthy subjects.
Main contributing factors were - teaching methods of the coaches, more important was expectation of the coaches. If the coach 'believed and encouraged the participents. The other main factor being the belief systems and mental attitudes of participents - which was often tied into the expectations & encouragements of the coach.
So can a 35 year old improve co-ordination / positional awareness? Absolutely without doubt. Whether they can improve their speed in a 200 metres dash is another thing. Some kinesiology trainers by using slow motion video can use micro-movement studies to pinpoint small adjustments in technique that can improve ageing sportsmen by ensuring they are only using the muscle groups necessary for the activity and minimising the interfering tension of muscular groups that should in a relaxed state. Eg downhill ski-ing you dont need to tense your jaw and shoulders - doing so makes you less sensitive to the info you get through the ski's therefore impedes performance. Learning to relax interfering muscles can save you hundreds of a second on a turn or manoever which can add to your overall speed.
Tome ends.
Rumoid
What about a pint of Deuchars??
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p8ddy
Ok well first off I was maybe generalising a bit yesterday early on and that isn't really like me, however at no point did I even mention you or any of your fellow posters, you merely ran off on one and assumed that it was you I was having a go off. Ok you guys may be the leading lights in the "Strachan may not be good enough" brigade but you do always try and back up your comments.
Here is where we part company. Certainly, I don't think progress can be measured simply in results, and not over such a short period. For instance, John Barnes' team had made more progress than that of Gordon Strachan in terms of results at the same stage of the season, but that doesn't show the whole picture.
This is an interesting question, if we had lost more games this season but the football was scintillating do you think Strachan would be gone by now? If results don't show the complete story then how come it's results that will normally see you sacked?
Someone once asked me if I thought that had Larsson not broke his leg in the Barnes season would Barnes have got more time in charge? Well I know it's speculation but I knew enough about Larsson to say that it's possible that his goals would have kept Barnes in the job for longer then we all wanted.
But your exaggeration was to the detriment of others, not in a positive or amusing way. Having a joke at others expense is often not the least bit funny for those singled out. What I'm saying is - Give equal weighting to the opinions of those you disagree with. I've no issue with your disagreeing, but plenty with over simplification or dismissal of posters comments as absurd. I know this was not your intention, but it goes back to this - respect for others. You're one of the good posters on here, your comments/opinions are well thought out and reasoned. I'd like it to stay that way!
Again as well you know I have the utmost respect for most posters here but I will refuse to respect people who make stupid comments like "let's Boo Camara", "or I'm flying my Strachan out banner tomorrow", I will quite happily have a go off those people as most people here did at the time as they offer nothing to the club we all love. I certainly wasn't including you in that regard.
Yes I can. I'll say it again. In my opinion, Camara is the worst player I have seen in the hoops.
Well again this is subjective but I still feel Camara is not the worst player to play for Celtic by a long shot. There have been much worse and most of their names have been thrown around here over the past few weeks.
You over generalised because you stated that if the result went the wrong way there would have been calls for Mo Camaras' head regardless of his performance. As I stated, I thought he had an excellent game. I thought he was our man of the match. To suggest I (or any of my fellow dissidents) would blame Mo Camara was unfair and inaccurate.
Maybe not you or your fellow dissidents but you really think this wouldn't have happened? It already has this season, the Rangers game being one in which Camara had quite a good match and still people had a go off him the following day.
In my opinion, I have never been "in trouble" on this site. "In trouble" infers that there is a ruling class and an under class. This is a site of my peers in which we are all equal and all entitled to our opinions. People are free to read, or not read my musings. I don't ask to be read, just to get the chance to contribute.
There you go again, ok I'll replace the phrase "in trouble" with "get peoples backs up", like I said arguing over a phrase is pedantic, otherwise your posts are knowledgeable and very readable. I may not be one of the people that has lost it at you but you have to admit you've had your share of "shut up P8ddy" comments from others.
MON took a seriously under performing squad and elicited wonderful performances from them. He took at poor team (containing all of the above) and transformed it. It's not the players you have, but what you do with them.
I agree but when some of those players are 4 or 5 years older you can't expect them to perform in the same way.
Further, of the players you mention only 3 were regular picks at the height of his success - the Seville year (and the year after?) Lubo left in 2002, Jackie Mac played only 12 games, Mjallby 14. Boyd played in no games that season. As a contrast, Ulrik Laursen played 22 and he was regarded as dead wood
We were talking about the two managers respective positions at the start of their Celtic Managerial careers. Not the height of their success as Strachan (I hope!!!) hasn't had his Seville moment yet. Can you imagine if we're talking about the Dundee Utd and Artmedia second legs as the best moment of his time at Celtic (scary) ;o)
MON bought the others, who all fitted in immediately. As I say, compare and contrast, MON inherited a dispirited and under performing side (John Barnes couldn't make a team of them) and transformed them. WGS has spent a considerable sum more (in terms of percentile to current market valuations for players) and here we are talking about more signings in the New Year to replace some of the current crop of summer signings!
Hmmmm I know the others you speak of i.e. Sutton, Hartson, Thompson, Agathe, Valgaeren however for every one of those there's a Hedman, Guppy, Sylla, Fernandez, Camara, Juninho or Henchoz (and I'd include Laursen as much as I liked him as I feel 1.5M was too much for him compared to the return in performances) and we've previously worked out before that this was a spend of over 7M. Anyway I still don't think you're comparing like with like there is no Larsson, no Lambert, no Mjallby and no Lubo in the current squad there's the potential to become as good as those players but that's for time to show.
The slump was a catastrophe, no doubt. I don't buy this "the team died" stuff though. Sutton is 32, Thompson 31 and Lennon 34.
Christian Vieri is 31 - is he too old? Fabio Cannavaro at 33? Bixente Lizarazu played for Bayern Munich regularly at 34. More over, Zinedine Zidane is 33! He's a mainstay for Real Madrid.
What I'm saying is that the player over 30 assertion is rubbish. If he's good enough, he's young enough.
You're not only saying that the player over 30 assertion is rubbish you're trying to compare some of our players to some of the greatest European players of the last 15 years hardly a fair comparison, put it this way if we had the 4 players which you mention above we'd be talked about as one of the favourites for the Champions League.
I have no doubt that the collapse of last season had far more to do with the personal problems of Martin O'Neill. It's understandable his eye wasn't on the ball so to speak. It's laudable he didn't walk out immediately his problems got more serious. I think the turnaround happened in the New Year. That's when the rot set in. When Martins' concentration slipped, so did the team. Up until the New Year, I thought the football played was OK. It wasn't great but it also was nowhere near as bad as the legend states. I don't "blame" anyone. Untied we stand, divided we fall. It's not about blame, it's about what is best for Celtic. Martin O'Neill has to accept responsibility as football manager, but we all share the blame.
This was what I hoped you'd say MON had awful personal problems which hopefully will disappear in time (best wishes to him and his wife by the way), he took his eye off the ball understandably and the club suffered. People can argue that the senior players should have performed better in his absence or that the backroom staff should have been able to cope after all their years together, or that the board should have given him more money to freshen up the squad but at the end of the day from 12 points in front we should have been capable of closing out the title and that we didn't falls on a collective responsibility.
We needed to stick together then and we need to stick together now so I will back the current Manager in his bedding in period as I think any new manager deserves that, the thing you have to remember is that collective spirit and if we start to deteriorate greatly then Strachan will be fired it's as simple as that.
Yes I would have been happy with him rebuilding the squad, providing his personal issues were in the past.
Well I guess we'll never know if he was having personal problems when he signed Hedman, Fernandez, Sylla etc but certainly his latter signings were woeful and I'd have been worried even if you weren't.
He gets judged on his own merit. He gets credit for success and criticism for failure. Gordon Strachan chose to sign Mo Camara. Martin O'Neill did not sign him. Lets deal in fact and not conjecture. Lets at least give the man credit for being his own man.
Well this I definitely agree with and I would again say that he hasn't had time to be judged a success or failure, we will see.
I'm on overtime tomorrow again :o( so I'll be following the match on the internet, here's hoping for a good result and a draw for the others.
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