 Monday, September 26, 2005
Victory against Inverness, but are Celtic making progress?
We have had solid victories for over a month now, though nagging doubts persist after Celtic had come from behind at home against both Falkirk and Inverness Caledonian Thistle. More often than not this season we have looked no different to the Celtic of last season, where ‘football by attrition’ was the order of the day.
Nakamura Shunsuke has now been involved in each of our last five goals. He is a different kind of player than those we have had in our midfield in recent seasons. During the Seville season Basel out-passed us for 45 minutes at Celtic Park on the way to eliminating us from the Champions League. It was a display of quick, two-touch, pass-and-move football, the like of which the Celtic of recent seasons could never replicate.
We had a different type of player – albeit players capable of despatching Celta Vigo and Stuttgart from European competition. Last season, against teams who would mark-up well, Celtic would often look bereft or ideas as they resorted to finding John Hartson with the long ball. The game-plan was tired and predictable.
We have not seen the best of Nakamura yet. When we do not have the ball he get caught ball-watching instead of sticking to his man. This was particularly evident at Ibrox, when he frequently allowed his man to drift away from him – forcing Neil Lennon to leave his own man to cover the spare attacker.
Last week against Hibs the returning Stephen Pearson was guilty of the same, and Gordon Strachan called it right away at the end of the game, referring to the young players developing “football intelligence”. The manager will work on this with both players.
Shunsuke looks at his best when playing off Shaun Maloney, who has the speed of thought to play the same style of game. This type of football with “pace” favours the ‘out-ball’ that Craig Beattie likes to run into the corners for, which gives the manager a dilemma.
We need to change systems while ensuring the midfield can protect a still fragile looking defence. Do we have the personnel available to allow us to play Nakamura in the free role he looks best at, playing alongside Maloney? I suspect that the fragile looking defence will need fixed first.
Craig Beattie has an excellent strike record, though his profligate first half against Inverness could have cost us points. All of the best suffer from this, even more so when they are not getting a regular game. It will be interesting to see how often he is used this season instead of John Hartson.
We cannot move from the old ‘direct football’ to the new ‘pace football’ easily. After the Artmedia nightmare, it was John Hartson who dug us out of trouble with his hat-trick against Motherwell, not to mention his goals since then.
This will be a season long odyssey and I expect more humbling defeats before the team stabilises, but progress has clearly been made.
114 Comments:
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It took 50 minutes before the real Celtic showed up on Saturday. No one, with the exception of Shaun Maloney impressed me.. even Naka looked lazy at times.
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I think the team is much better this term than last.
Some time soon (perhaps this weekend) a team is going to get the proverbial doing, and then I think there will be no looking back.
I was happy to see Hearts win on Saturday, and feel more confident than ever that we will win the league this season.
I think we miss Lenny and will be glad to see him return when we take on the Jambos at CP!
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The main issue right now is that the team have not been tested against a good opposion - that will be the litmus test.
The truth is that it's hard to see whether real progress is being made. We can only really ascertain how much (or little) progress the team is making when tested by good teams.
My guess is that the real progress indicators will come in our meetings with Hearts and Rangers.
Up till then, I think we can take little from the games played so far (in terms of the strengths of the team).
/p
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I think Paul your correct about the possible humbling defeat in the future. At times we looked very lethargic, where is the old chase every ball, close 'em down attitude???
In saying that, one of these games soon will see us put 4 or 5 past a keeper who is not on his game. Aberdeen and Caley could have, and Should have lost by a few more.
Good to see the introduction of Agathe, what's everyone's feelings on him regaining the right back spot from WGS favourite professional???
Personally i think that Jankauskas will murder Telfer on Oct 15th, Agathe on the other hand.....
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We did look disjointed at times on saturday.There are still chances being made which is good and time will tell if Naka and Shaun will be allowed to develope the understanding that played a part in our first goal.I think the football played is better than last season and will contiue to improve if we are patient. 2nd is better than 5th.
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I think Paul has called it right in terms of the work in progress. It may well be a whole season of transition.
By the end of the season Petrov will be gone and possibly Hartson also. Sutton, Thompson and Lennon will feature less and less as Strachan moves towards a passing, high tempo game.
A Champions League group is not the best place for a team in transition though for the fans it's worth it for the trips abroad alone.
The bookies have us as favourites and the media huddle, as Jock Brown had them (though more a mob in regard to recent events,) are in process of switching from Rangers to Hearts. They are in transition also.
However I think if the team continue to progress then we will beat Hearts for the League and I'm not sure Rangers will finish in the top three.
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excellent post paul - agree wholeheartedly.
Silky soccer is always a good attribute to have. However, the modern footballer must be able to defend as well as do the silky stuff. This was a mandatory asset under MON.
Nakamura does not look like that type of player, and although he often does good things, Gordon has to work a lot harder with him. Only time will tell whether he cuts it as a Celtic player.
I found it hard on Saturday watching PEtrov cover so much ground effectively covering for so many of our 'missing' midfield defenders. His game is suffering as a result.
TERnar
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Hail Hail one and all
P8ddy
I agree with your opinions on this one. While glad to see us improving from the start to the season, at present we have still to pass a test, so how can we say we are improving upon last year?
Against Falkirk we again looked light weight in the tackle, slow in defence especially on the turn, will watch the ICT game on Setanta tonight.
On the subject of Mo, I would persevere with him in the team for a while but as a left midfielder - his effort deserves a go, but for anyone to suggest he is comfortable on the ball in defence is worrying.
Telfer/Agathe? Have to play Dids every time, more pace, better tackler and neither can cross. So play the faster model.
Unfortunately, like at Cov. I cannot see Telfer being dropped until he is injured even when there are better options available. WGS will find away to include him in the team for as long as possible.
Glad Beatts and Sean playing in the team now, hope we persevere with them for a while. Hope Miss Moneypecker is correct about young Charlie Grant, he does have the look of a speedy version of Lennon about him.
On the subject of Virgo, can we please lower our expectations for a while, on this one. He does need games and although WGS seems to see potential on him, as did many Seagull fans, he is still very much a learner in this game. He has as yet not played 100 senior matches and last season the majority of these were as a striker. Lets give him the season to find a position before making him out to be the next Sutton or whatever.
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Off the subject, As i just got my season book this season, what do i do regarding ticket for CIS cup game?
Do i fill in and send Voucher 22 with my details and wait for ticket office to get their finger out.
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In the two games we've played without Lennon and Thompson in midfield (Dunfermline and Inverness) we have struggled to establish a rhythm in midfield. Something for critics of these players to bear in mind.
Yet there were only a couple of minutes when Inverness posed a threat, and these followed the enforced introduction of Adam Virgo, who looked out of sorts and uncertain.
Given the tough 120-minute game in midweek against a surprisingly composed Falkirk, Saturday was a very good three points.
There have been encouraging signs. We are dominating possession and trying to play on the deck. With hard work on the training ground, these improvements will continue.
And with Agathe, Sutton, Pearson, Du Wei etc starting to push their way into the squad, competition for places (even on the bench!) is really hotting up.
In the end, that depth of squad - compared to the threadbare resources at Hearts and Rangers - could well secure the title.
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It was my first game at Celtic Park this season what with work commitments and weddings etc.
Bhoy was it good to be back.
What I had gleaned from the TV was that Celtic were trying to pas the ball from back to fron and across the park. In this sense I was not dissapointed and I thought we looked like a team who are becoming a bit more slick in this respect. Even Bobo seems to have cut out a few of his "tazmanian devil" momeents and started to think again.
I like the look of Naka, he never wastes a ball and his football is an intelligent brand. Mind you he could do with a haggis supper and guiness chaser every night for a month and some extra gym sessions.
Sutton in the hole for me is a non starter. He started off from where he finished against Falkirk. Up front or at the back please Gordon. My how we miss Neil Lennon in the middle.
Sean was the best player on the park and young Beattie did well bar his misses.
I liked when Agathe came on although some say Strachan is planning to use him as an attacker again. Although I feel we have a steady eddie in Telfer I felt some completely assured when Didier came on. Again, how we have missed him. His pace at the back and when going forward fits with the new style of play.
Overall I believe we have a long way to go. Hopefully we will be close enough to that place within 3 weeks. I also hope the fans have found their voices again as it will be a big game. The fact that this game is at Celtic Park might just be the difference.
Time to get the bit between the teeth Celtic and finsih teams offf. Nice passing is good but killer instincts are better.
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Baldymeister - agree with you on Agathe and Virgo , not on Mo however . I do think he is an accident waiting to happen , watch Hearts target him in 2 weeks. Our big problem I feel at the moment is a tremendous lethargy in midfield tha seems to stem from Naka (excluding Petrov) . Everything seems to be done at walking pace , until we go a goal down then they pep it up a bit . This needs to be done before we go a goal down because the football does seem to be coming together, it just needs to be a little faster. Hard work Celtic , together with a fair degree of skill , will nearly always see you through .
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IMO the best way to accommodate Nakamura in a free role would be to play a back three of Virgo, Balde and Du Wei.
The midfield of Agathe,Lennon, Petrov and Wallace with Naka floating would also toughen up things there and protect the defence.
I know WGS won't do this but it would solve the LB, RB debate.
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The bottom line is;
Is it exciting stuff?
Did fans leave before the end on Saturday?
Can Strachan get a squad together that can be rotated and all kept happy?
Will the extra Rangers match, with all the usual hullaballoo, take our minds off the real task in hand? Winning the league with automatic entry to the Champions League.
Will the SPL actually turn out to be more competitive than the EPL??
Being out of Europe will be a Henriksend, it happens to all teams, except Barcelona.
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shaboy - so the best way is to play virgo who is yet to show his supposed worth and du wei who has yet to show ?
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ternar -
now petrov knows how paul mcstay felt
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Several observations I believe the team are begining to mould into a better unit albeit early doors as they say.
Communication is an important factor, combined with the players getting accustomed to each other on a day to day basis will make the team a more cohesive unit. All though I am one of those remember its Caley thistle brigade that is the first time they have lost the points on the road. They are clearly a defensive team and although it should have been 4-5 goals, Beattie did well to make it 2.
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rintimtim:
is it exciting stuff?not really.
Did fans leave before the end on saterday?as always.
can strachan get a squad together that can be rotated and all kept happy?doubt it.
will the extra rangers match, with all the usual hullaballoo take our mind of the real task in hand?nope!.
will the SPL actually turn out to be more competitive than the EPL?isn't it already?
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Paul67
Is there any word on talks about getting Stan Petrov on a new deal, are they planned or not?I read a post saying he wont be there next year is this true or just an opinion.Asset management time is coming if he wont stay.
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Greetings all in timland! My lastest always positive/never negative thoughts.....
Well i thought the game on saturday was very encouraging.
Naka is a genius on the ball, and I'm convinced there is more to come from him. Put him in your fantasy football team, assists gallore!
He will start scoring free-kicks sooner or later too, if his past performances are anything to go by.
Wee Shaun was excellent too, with these two as well as Lennon and Petrov we would have a good balance of steel and flair. Also good backup in the form of Thomo, Lawson, Aiden, Sutton etc.
People are saying we have yet to beat a good team.
In my opinion Cally are a good team, Hibs are a good team, they may not have superstars but they work as a team well. Making them hard to beat.
Therefore we can be pleased to beat any of these teams, on a different day it could have been 6-1 and we would still find negatives.... because we, like Naka, have more to come!
On a side note:
When i look throught the r***ers team i cant help but but think "where are there top class players?" there best players are Prso and Buffell and tactical genius Eck loves dropping them or playing them out of position!
When I look through the Celtic team I'm thinking "How can we fit in ALL our top class players?!" we cant, someone has to get left out, which means we wil always have good options on the bench. Whereas before we had squad players on the bench, we now have 1st team quality on the bench!
COME ON THE HOOPS!!
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Can't understand the comment about missing Lennon and Thompson. They were there against Aberdeen and we didn't look good then. We did however look good against Dunfermilne (albeit after we were up by a couple) when we had Petrov and Lawson in the middle. Keep Petrov in the middle (in the role he plays for Bulgaria) and in January bring in someone to help him. This way we can play Sean and Naka who look really good together. Agathe a right back and another (better) left back. The rest of the personnel we already have and maybe eventually we'll see our two centre backs being Du Wei and Kennedy. Time to move Thommo, Sutty and Balde on in January and use this money for a top class, left sided central midfield player to complement and support Stan?
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shabhoy 1:22
Definitely agree with your back 3 proposition - it will make best use of Naka in a free role. However, can't see WGS adopting it, he's a confirmed 4-4-2 man.
Not sure about your choice of personnel, though. Du Wei & Virgo? Not yet....and Wallace? Hmmm, don't know.
Would really like to see Agathe back and match fit for Hearts, we'll need to stifle their attacking threat down the flanks, their crossing (& finishing) looks pretty tidy.
And give big Chris a run with Magic up front - wth Sutton's brain & Magic's finishing, I think we'd see teams killed of pretty quickly.
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After the Motherwell game how many of us thought we would be 6 points ahead of Rangers after 8 games?
I know we are behind Hearts but again who expected this, and will it last?
It didn't look good , losing goals galore and new players injured or not settling in quickly.
In my 35 years of being a Celtic supporter I have never seen such an upheaval in personnel.
About 10 out and 7(?) in. New manager and backroom staff.
All this against a backdrop of cost cutting and getting value for money.
The signs are there that we are on the right road. We are trying to play a different type of game where ball retention is required.
IMO we have a problem winning the ball back so it is important we keep it.
Now that some of the senior and new players are declaring themselves fit GS will have the problem of deciding when to change a winning team.
Finally I couldn't agree more with CC the boxer, someone is due a hammering, hopefully Hearts.
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From what point are we discussing if the team has improved?
If it is from the start of the season against Artmedia and Motherwell,then yes there has been improvement.
If we are being asked, has it improved from last season? Then the answer would have to be a resounding NO ,at this stage.
The defence is more fragile,and the midfield allows the opposition too much time, and room to play.
The forward line gives me hope.
We have lost Bellamy's pace, but i think that this has been compensated for with the improvement in Beattie.
I also believe that Majic will be a good aquisition.
BBj is BBj,very underated.
I hope Sutton and him fight for a CF position,and Beattie and Zurawski fight for the other.
Maloney is developing as an attacking midfield player and not a CF.He should be competing for a midfield spot.
The big tests are yet to come.
We are better now than when we took the field at Fir Park,but i have not seen enough to feel confident that we can win back the league.
I remain hopefull but not confident.
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I like the slick passing game and the possession aspect of it, but in the last 2 games we have allowed the pace to be too slow, which allows the opposition time to regroup behind the ball.
We must get into top gear and keep it there.
Possession + skill + pace = success.
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Hello all,
Just back from a small outpost in Greece, so a lot of catching up to do.
Spent a hell of a lot on texts to keep up to date with the hoops.
Three victories does help the hols,and the huns getting beat helps all the more!!
I`ve been catching up on the posts,
since sat, interesting reading.
The Falkirk game seemed to be a struggle, but we won and thats cup tie football (i was also in Greece last year when our reserve team beat the bairns 8-1 at the same stage)so have we improved since then?
I am not going to comment on the teams performances since last week as i never seen them, but i was worried about hibs away, 3 good points.
WGS does seem to realise we are not the finished article (thank god) so he knows we must keep improving on the start we have made.
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Paul,
As I've posted before, I am a tad anxious about us. Your thread more or less sums it up for me. I would add one thing, I think we look most fragile in midfield, especially when the opposition has it. Without a Neil Lennon in the team, we don't seem able to get it back. By the bye, I thought Paul Telfer started off very comptetently on Saturday and then started making very fundamental mistakes, like giving the ball away too easily (did the support's anxiety get to him?).
We are most definitely a work in progress but at least we are being a lot more entertaining with it than last season's constant big punt. We did deserve to win on Saturday and if Beattie had taken some of his first half chances, it could have been by a lot more.
It may be just me, but I'm beginning to think that Sean Maloney is developing into a one trick artist a la McGeady last season.
How about Sutton and Magic up front?
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CajunBhoy
IC where you are coming from with High Tempo passing game - but I don't think its a game we could keep up for 90mins times 40 games a season, even with GS fitness regime.
I thought we kept good possesion on Saturday and I thought we did well knocking it about with an easy tempo occasionally lifting the tempo. We should have had a barrowload on Saturday !. What we need to be better at, as some earlier posters have mentioned, is to be able to switch to high tempo for 10 mins now and again like Man U did when we played them in MONs first season when they beat us 2 nil or something and gave us a lesson in footy.
I think GS wants players to be confortable playing at a couple of gears, and thinking about it, I think its a way of playing that would really imrove Maloneys and McGeadies game as they tend to give it all all of the time when a wee knock about then a rise in tempo will knock other teams off balance.
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Interesting reading, and one of the main comments that seems to be coming through is Sutton and Majic up front with no staring place for Hartson. Now, in the past I have defended Hartson so my southern mates over here, but given the style WGS seems to be wanting to play I am struggling to see where he can fit in. It also makes sense why Aliadiere was brought in at the start of the season(would have liked him to have had a chance, really). Although Big John has a great scoring record, and WGS has been full of praise for him, is he not going to be a bit out of place in the fast free flowing football that I am hoping we are about to start playing?
As for Agathe and Telfer, perhaps it does seem as if Agathe will be in midfield providing cover for Telfer and that would work, but where does everyone else play? I think the 3-5-2 option would be interesting to see, as long as we had real wingers(who could cut inside too) a couple of ball winners and a flair player.
And to the Stan issue... when watching the final game of last season he was the only man wanting to win the league badly IMO. I thought he'd be out as fast as he could manage. However, he is still here and so we should make sure he stays. He is the sort of player WGS needs when we really start playing the football he wants us to play.
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A team in transition, how long do we have to wait? We're talking about professional footballers, not a bunch of rookies!
For me we lack a bit of steel in midfield when Thompson and Lennon are missing. If we have Naka and Maloney in the same midfield then it has to be a 3-5-2 to accomodate both of them.
We really have to start looking like the finished article soon. We have the chance to bury rangers while they are down and not give them the chance to recover by us dropping silly points.
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Check out this link for a completely neutral unbiased report of the Hearts v rangers game.
This guy is Good:
http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/football.cfm?id=1994922005
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Shammy
It can take a long time, look at Man Utd, they are still trying to rebuild, they're in their 3rd season of it and they've spent an absolute fortune to get there. We've won our last 5 games in a row so dropping silly points seems to be the last thing on the teams mind. I'll admit though that I'd like to see a really focused performance against Hearts, no sloppy errors and all our chances taken.
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the key to future defensive happiness may be the timing,and extent,of john kennedy's recovery
i am surprised a number of people see 40yearoldvirgo/duweironron as the starting centre back combo
please let's keep stan for as long as possible,and also try to persuade didier to stay a bit longer
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I don't see things as negatively as some have posted here.
The first half i counted 8 very decent opportunities, if we had a finisher like Larsson we would have been out of site by half time and probably not be having this debate now.
Perhaps its not the transition of Mon to GS thats the biggest problem, but its still a case of missing Larsson.
From what i can see, if GS can get his best defence sorted out we will be very hard to beat, this has to be the priority.
Against Hibs in the first half hour we were absolutely awesome, we just need to keep it up for longer periods, build confidence and a decent team will develop, i don't think it's too far away timewise either.
Who cares what the hacks opinions are, Rangers and Hearts will be praised by them regardless of how well we play.
We should be expecting to win the SPL this year, not just hoping, that's not good enough!
The players we have are far superior to any other team in the league. The bench is full of players who will be thinking they should be playing, a big improvement already on last year.
The futures bright!
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I hope I did not confuse anyone by my earlier post regarding Stan,I want him to stay and become the next captain. Only though on a long term deal with no clauses and of mutual benefit to the Club and Player alike.Get the talks underway now PL.
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It's only from this point onwards can Strachan suss out his best side.
With Sutton and Agathe fit again, Lennon returning from suspension, and the youngsters finding form minus the absence of John Kennedy he has a full quota of players and arguably the strongest squad in the SPL.
Unbelievably, the one outfield player who's place in the side seems 100% secure until January is our worst one - Mo Camara!
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Parkheadcumsalford - Shaun Maloney, a one trick artist? If the one trick is always looking for the ball, retaining possession in tight areas and constantly troubling defences then I wish we had another 9 one trick artists in the side.
Wee Shaun was a star on Saturday and in my opinion the man of the match.
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Greetings Paul
I think you hit the nail on the head, with the comment -
They resorted to finding John Hartson with the long ball. The game-plan was tired and predictable.
What that sentence highlights is the near impossible task of getting another Henrik Larsson. Anything less will seem like second division stuff, but the harsh realities are that players like Henrik are a rare breed indeed.
Maloney, and Beattie work hard, but in terms of clinical finishing are not in the same class. Hopefully more first team football will help them in time.
Hartson continues to be an enigma. Slow, and tired looking for much of a game, but then can score just when you wouldn't expect it. He's all too easy to write off - at your peril. However, he isn't getting any younger, and our continued reliance on him to get us out of trouble is a worry.
We still have a long way to go. But the one thing is, we appear to have stopped going backwards. I hope.
Hail Hail
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Tinytim 2.32
You really think the defence is more fragile this season than last?
Every time a team attacked us for the most part of last season I expected that we would concede.
We have lost two bad goals admittedly in the last two games. One when Bobo got in the way of McManus and the other when Virgo had just come on but overall we have looked increasingly secure at the back.
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"At 12:18 PM, KronenbourgScott1667 said…
It took 50 minutes before the real Celtic showed up on Saturday. No one, with the exception of Shaun Maloney impressed me.. even Naka looked lazy at times."
Disagreed, it could have been 4-0 at half-time with some luck/decent finishing.
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The confidence through the defence comes from Artur standing behind them, shouting and directing.
The passing and ball retention in midfeild also inspires confidence.
However - We seem to be trying to defend without tackling. Can't think of one tackle being made on Wednesday against Falkirk. And there was very few on Saturday against ICT. It was noticable that Naka was out-muscled at times on saturday. I think he'd benefit from an "enforcer" type of player beside him in the midfield.
G
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2.04 sean.zo'88
Thanks for the answers!
I hope we don´t get distracted by the Rainjurs games. In the last three seasons when we have really started to look better than them we keep getting drawna gainst them in the cups. Last season the League cup, at about exactly the same time as this season and for the last 2 seasons in the early stages of the Scottish cup!!
Shurely Shome Coincidence!!
They gain much more out of these games than us, they might learn to play, by being close up to us so often.
Paul,
Do journalists get invited to cup draws? like press conferences?
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Paul67..........I take it from your post @11.10 on the other thread, you don't think DD will be putting any more money into us but.
Do you still believe there will be NEW money coming in?
will it be a new sponsor or a share issue?
If it's a share issue then someone else must be willing to put up the 15M, do you know who?
With our debts hitting the 20M mark and talk of 15M share issue during the summer, do you think this would be the right amount of money considering the debt level and a new training complex still to build.
In my opinion I would say we need about 20M/25M to get out this hole we find ourselves in
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I see some guys want to defend Adam Virgo's shocking performance as he isn't fit yet. He shouldn't have been on the park.
1. He is fatter than John Hartson and that's going some
2. He totaly missed the ball for the ICT goal
3. He then went for 4 headers and missed everyone, you couldn't get a sheet of paper under him when he jumped.
4. He then punched the ball out the penalty area with 5 minutes to go.
This guys is exactly what it says on the tin " A Brighton player". £1.5M? this is Rafael like.
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Dessybhoy, the comment on Petrov was purely one mans opinion. I asked the specific question on Petrov and was assured the club wanted to keep him.
To take your point further on asset management; if he refuses a new contract he should be moved on.
Parkheadcomesalford, agree with everything except your thoughts on Maloney being a one trick pony. He could do with a run in the team.
BhoyinEngland, Beattie cannot finish like Henrik, but neither could Henrik when he was Beattie’s age. He did not start sticking them away until his second season at Celtic.
Rintimtim, I am sure some journo’s do get invited to the cup draws, alas I am still working on my contacts list.
Gerry, I have absolutely no idea if DD will be putting money in. I agree, we have an apparent deficit. My guess; if England is on the horizon, DD will invest again – at the right time, if not, I can see no reason why he should.
Bhoydell, Zurawski looked well short when he first arrived, and Hartson never looked like a player who would score 98 goals in his first two months. Check back with Adam after he has put a run of five games together.
There is a fundamental difference between Rafael and Virgo; Virgo has been watched by the manager (many times). Rafael was the oldest mistake in football waiting to happen – signing a player on the basis of video evidence.
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Don't forget that when signed it was believed he was a few years younger than he actually was as well.
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6:46 PM, Bhoydell
Nothing like giving a guy a chance. He is an ex Brighton player but so what, Moravcik came from MSV Duisburg, Hooijdonk from NAC Breda not teams that a lot of the support would have even heard of, but I suppose in your opinion they were probably crap as well.
Imbecile's passing comments on players that have hardly played in the team need to get lost, go and give your 'support' to another team.
You’re the type who will turn round when Virgo plays well and tell everyone in your vicinity that you always knew he was a good player.
Give me a break, whoever pulls on the hoops should get 100% support.
Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
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dontbrattbackinanger 3.56PM, Malone19 7.47PM
Why all the constant jibes at Virgo's age?
He was born on the 25 Jan 1983 which makes him 22 I fail to see how this makes him
(a) Old or
(b) lacking potential
If every player knew it all by 22 then we'd just promote the entire under 21 team at the end of each season and sit back as they murdered all before them.
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Has the Celtic support always been like this?
So quick to judge,so quick to put the boot into some of the guys that carry our hopes on their shoulders?
The criticism of Virgo and Camara especially really gets on my nerves.Why are we so quick to focus on the negatives? Camara offers us an outlet going forward that is integral to the way that WGS wants to play.He is not Ashley Cole but he is doing a temporary job for us at the moment and has definitely upped performance levels since the game in Bratislava.
Virgo is recovering from injury and notwithstanding under21 games,has played all of what,2 hours worth of football? Is that enough to judge him? Were the same guys who are criticising Camara and Virgo telling everyone how garbage Larsson was after playing Hibs in August '97?
My guess is that they just might have been.
The reality of the situation we are in at the moment is that the guys we have in our squad at the moment are here to stay until January.Would it be so difficult to try and give them a chance to prove themselves until January comes at least?
If we want to criticise,we should be specific about where we see a problem,but blanket statements like he shouldn't be on the pitch or he was just rubbish serve no purpose and don't exactly encourage healthy debate.
We have managed to gradually pick up points over the last few weeks and keep in contention,which is more than can be said for the other Glasgow club.We need to get behind the players,every single one of us,to give the players individually and collectively the confidence that will carry this side to the Championship.We have a very big part to play.
It was mentioned earlier that it took 50 minutes before we started to play on Saturday.Not strictly true.I would say that it was 50 minutes before we as supporters were woken from our collective slumber/arrogance when Caley scored.The rise in noise levels after that inspired our guys.
Maybe we should all be having a long hard look at ourselves just now to see exactly how much we are giving to the Celtic cause.What more could we do to inspire those guys in the Hoops to better performances?
Maybe,just maybe,a collective effort between players and supporters and a mood of positivity at CP
will carry us to the title.
Solidarnost,as our Polish boys might say.
BankieBhoy
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Sir Paul and my Compadres,
Paul,my friend, I wish you had been with me last evening.
I had a visit from Two of my old Buddies.
One of my dear old pals is a former Premier League Manager.
He is a stickler for soccer tactics as opposed to individual skill.
He claims that with a Girls Soccer Eleven he could beat many English Div.11 Teams,using superior tactics.
Tall order, I know......but ......Knowing this guy ......he is deadly serious
I am purposely,being very clear in my text.... Very unlike me.....I know.....But I feel that I have something of interest to offer.
The evening was spent in deep discussion concerning the fortunes and mis-fortunes of our mutual love.....Glasgow Celtic.
To back up his statement concerning the all important use of Soccer Tactics.......Mr.X produced a video of the ENGLAND v Hungary International at Wembley Stadium Nov. 1953.
This particular game shocked England out of their Soccer Superiority Complex........And How!
Hungary had the temerity to whip England soundly..... The first time that England had been defeated at home by a Non U.K. country.
The score was 6-3 in Hungary's favor.
England's team that day, contained many household names......... Matthews, Mortensen, Alf Ramsey , the immortal Billy Wright...and many more of the skilled and famous.
Hungary of course had the one and only "Galloping Major" and my own personal favouite...Hidegkuti(?)
Anyhoo, the video was inserted and we settled down to watch the game.
Well I Never! Hungary was spectacular.....Hungary was stunning ......Hungary was Entrancing.....
You get the idea.
England was .......Bewitched.....Bedazzeled....Discombobulated(I know..But allow me a little one?)
After viewing the annihilation of the cream of England....... We got down to a serious brick by brick analysis of the Hungarian Tactics.
I do not want to go into chapter and verse of our discussion, however I shall give you a brief Summary of our findings:
Hungary Played........4-2-4
( Now this is the whole crux of their Tactics,so tuck that away for future reference)
Hungary did All of their serious Damage......OFF THE BALL!!!
I repeat.......OFF THE BALL!
Many occasions the Hungarian Attack, SLOWED TO A CRAWL!!!
Meanwhile the Hungarian Team members who were not on the Ball... Drifted, Hither and Thither....Dragging their poor perplexed Markers all over the shop... Causing the English Defense to lose ALL SEMBLANCE OF SHAPE!!!
(At times one was reminded of a Bicycle Sprint race...... One eye on your opponent then if he hesitates......WOOOOOOOOOOOSH OFF YOU SPEED!)
Suddenly, the tempo of the Hungarian Attack leaped into gear....
Speedily the ball flew from man to man ....all with ONE TOUCH soccer!
Tra------Dah!
Goal! Goal! Goal!
As I say you get the idea!
Now my dear alert friend Paul....this is what You Yourself has been Alluding to......
Successful Results will automatically follow is more skill and concentration is spent OFF THE BALL!
The 4-2-4 formation, according to my old pal.... is the SKELETON KEY, that will unlock ANY DEFENSE if accompanied by INTELLIGENT OFF THE BALL RUNNING!
Now gentlemen, please pay particular attention to the Wee Admiral's Future tactical line- up, when he has fitted in all the the missing defensive pieces to his Formation.
I tell you in all seriousness.......
Mr. Strachan is a firm believer in Tactics......He Knows,Ya Know!
Do not short- change him.
I know he is the lad to guide the Bhoys back to Europe....... Fully prepared to match any Tactical Maneuvering from the Europeans.
Tactics! Tactics! Tactics!
So do not be distressed if Naka turns up on one wing then the other wing or Maloney is laying back instead of going forward , or Stan is not going forward into the box...
What you are witnessing is the Glimmerings of the Aborning of Celtic Team Tactics a la THE HUNGARIAN TEAM circa 1953!
Our discussion went far too deeply into the Fundamentals of Team Tactics for me to try and present all of it.
It is far too Complicated .
Suffice to say.....
The Wee Admiral will steer the Good Ship Lollipop to Victory!
Gie him Time! Not much to ask...... really??
Never fear, the Celts are in Good Hands.
Miss Pennypacker.
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We are indeed a work in progress, a process which is at the very onset of a long journey.
There are certainly many encouraging signs-Naka beginning to look the part(ok he's a tad slight, but when have you ever seen him waste a ball?), WGS's willingness to change what ain't going right without adhering religiously to the 'tried and tested' old guard, the highly promising re-emergence of Shaun and Beatts(both of whom I previously thought had no long term future at Paradise-delighted to be proved wrong)and a general willingness to give youth a chance(who is also glad that Big Mick has been given a run, rather than a Telfer type signing in Claus Lundekvam?).
A work in progress? You bet,
WGS needs time to perfect his vision?(how long, though, may be the real question)-Darn tootin'.
If Big Feck across the city is still trying to build 'his team'(copyright-any red tops)after nearly 5 years, then WGS is going to need a bit more than quarter of the league season to stamp his insignia.
I must admit of course that I was highly apprehensive going to Paradise for the 1st league game this season after the disasters of the 1st two competitive games(and a flat pre-season)but I have been much encouraged(if not overtly so)by the steady improvement since. As for the suggestion that we have not been properly tested yet, well we all know the injustices of the ibrox debacle, but what about the display at Easter Road(a place where very few teams will come away with anything)where we should have had the game sewn up by half time?
Perhaps my main gripe so far is our inability to convert many chances(Caley being a perfect example)and kill a game off without having to do things the hard way.
Actually I'm moaning about this fact as if it is something new, but hasn't this always been The Glasgow Celtic way?(do things the difficult way and keep us on our toes).
(Pause for breath)....Hail Hail!
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Miss Pennypacker,
Since primary one my head has been in the clouds. "A complete daydreamer" was probably one of the milder things written on my report card.
I try to maintain a sense of realism but, alas, to no avail most of the time.
So I am with you 100% of the way when bring up Hungary '53 as an example. Lisbon '67, Brazil '70, Holland '74 & '78. Why not aim for these heights and more?
A a better mind than mine once said(no, not sclub7):
Let's.......Reach for the stars!
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cavansam
What are you talking about mate?!?
I was talking about Shiedt; he arrived and it turned out he was 2 or 3 years older than Celtic were led to believe.
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On the subject of Raphael Sheeeyite, I should have known better but I had slight concerns that perhaps we were after Naka for the wrong reasons(Ding!Ding! The tills are ringin'!).
As I say I should have known better. WGS should be viewed as anything but a yes man and will sign only who HE wants to sign. And, I have seen enough of Naka in action to know that he aint another RS and wasn't signed on the basis of a dodgy Arthur Daley video.
Yes, them days are long gone(sing and rejoice).
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I can remember john kennedys first few first team outings as subs etc. he also looked nervous and had a terrible first touch but gradually found his feet. As will Virgo coming on at parkhead he looked a bundle of nerves rough around the edges , But after a few outings this will pass. His heading improved during the match after he won his first header and found the pace of the game.
Remember its not the best defense in the world to come into for team mates being reliable defenders now is it! Balde, camara , telfer ?
Would you not be nervous??
The futures bright...
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BankieBhoy,
No,I dont think the Celtic support has always been this critical.
This is a fairly new phenomenon and I say this as a supporter who has attended CP for the last 30 years.
There may be 2 reasons for this.
The whole social strata of the game has changed.We can no longer call it a working man's game.It has opened up to all-regardless of class or gender.
Society as a whole has higher expectations thus reflected on our aspirations for our team.
Football 30 years ago was an affordable release from work and having a good day out with the lads.
My second reason is quite simple.We were spoiled by MON.He made us feel special even when we werent that good.Like last season.
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Right then lads:
Bankiebhoy,I agree some off our players are in as a temporary measure.
Virgo,has not had a chance to make an impression due to injury and as such did no pre season at all.Lets just wait and see how he developes.He's 22 so right age to develope with the right coach.
Remember what we thought when MON signed an ageing Varga!Did all right for a couple off seasons.
Misspennypacker:I hope you weren't kicking"balls" up and down the living room with two handsome ex footballers.
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Miss PennyPacker/Jamiebhoy
The achievements of Hungary in 1953, or pretty much any team to emerge from Holland in the 1970’s were seminal advances in the world game – similar to what Scots done to the English game in the nineteenth century.
Most football clubs are terribly run, Celtic being a fine exception. They understand little of the game, and less of budgeting.
They know nothing on how to harness support behind them.
They do not know how to appoint key staff.
Football teams are managed by men almost always under-qualified for the task in hand. Appointed in haste and statistically likely to be sacked within four years. They are seldom empowered with the tools to do the job, and are too soon making decisions based on short-term objectives.
Footballers are under-trained. Can you imagine any Olympic class athlete training less than three hours a day? We cannot expect pace and stamina if we do not have committed athletes.
We are living in the last days of the lifestyle pro. The first teams to wise-up will clean-up.
Then there are the fans. In world football there are very few clubs who could pack a stadium the size of Celtic Park the way we do for SPL type football. The fans of most clubs get the reactionary fare they deserve, “sack him, he is rubbish, not fit to wear…”.
You get the drift.
Some will tell you football is a hard business, this is nonsense.
Football is the easiest business in the world. Your competitors are a mixture of the vain and the recklessly stupid.
Time for Gordon Strachan to put into practice what he has been planning.
Time for Celtic.
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Sir Paul, and my Compadres,
Paul, my friend, I wish you had been with me, last evening.
I had two visitors.
One was an old,old,old, friend......
He is a former Manager of a Prominent Premier League Club.
Now Mr.X is a fanatic as far as Team Tactics is concerned.
He claims that utilizing the proper Team Tactics...... He could beat some English Div.11 Teams........ with a Girls Eleven!
Tall Order, I'll admit....... But... He is deadly serious!
We then proceeded to engage in a Discussion of the Fortunes and Mis-Fortunes of our Mutually Beloved Team.........The Glasgow Celtic.
To reinforce his firm and undying belief in Team Tactics, Mr.X... Produced a T.V. Video.
The Video was of the England v Hungary,Nov. 1953,Soccer International.
This was the game that produced the first defeat of Mighty England, on home soil, by an non U.K. Soccer Eleven.
Shockaroony!
The England Team contained many famous and household names.... like... Matthews, Ramsey, Wright, Mortensen,.............
The Hungarians had of the course, the one and only, "Galloping Major" and my personal favorite..Hidegkuti(?)
The tape was inserted and we settled down to watch.
Hot Diggity Dog!!!!!
England was not Defeated...
England was ANNIHILATED!
Whiz! Bang! Boom!
Hungary were Stupendous, Invincible and Victorious!
England were Bewitched, Bedazzled and Discombobulated!
The Final Score was 6-3
But the gap in style and execution was as wide as the Grand Canyon.
Poor England!
After watching the Game our fellowship got down to a serious discussion of what we had witnessed.
A Brick by Brick analysis of the Team Tactics employed by the Remarkable Hungarians,followed,
Here I will present a Brief Summary of our Observations of the Successful Hungarian Team Tactics.
First and Foremost:
The Hungarians played a 4-2-4 Team Formation( Note this well and tuck it away for Future Ref.)
The Hungarians won the game by their OFF THE BALL RUNNING!
The Hungarians on Several Occasions played the game at A SNAILS PACE!!!
Pushing the ball about.. to and fro, patiently and very calmly ....... biding and biding....meanwhile the attackers not on the ball, ran hither and thither, DRAWING the perplexed English Defenders with them.
Because of this maneuvering, the English Defense Lost all of its Shape!
Then,suddenly, the lethargic Hungarians struck as swift as a serpent......
( The spectacle shown was very reminiscent of a Bicycle Sprint Match, where one warily paces one's opponent..... at times almost becoming static...watching and waiting....and when one's opponent hesitates a smidgeon....... WOOOOOOOOOOOSH! One speedily flashes away!)
The Hungarian tempo notched into high gear...... slick rapid ONE TOUCH passing, accompanied by very fast running scythed through the English Defense, which was now in complete DISARRAY........ THANKS TO THE OFF THE BALL RUNNING!
GOAL! GOAL! GOAL!
Paul, my friend you are so right in your assertion that INTELLIGENT OFF THE BALL RUNNING, will prove to be the straw that will break any Camel's Back Three!
Mr.X claims that OFF THE BALL RUNNING, using design and intelligence, is the SKELETON KEY that will open any defense, like the Proverbial Can-Opener!
Also, The Admirable Admiral is a noted devotee of Soccer Team Tactics...Advanced Division!
So gentlemen, the next time you see, Naka on the right then on the left then drifting back and then drifting forward......and Moloney in the midfield when he should be(in your estimation) in the box......and Stan going backward, instead of .........
O.K. O.K. Ya got the idea!
What you are seeing gentlemen is the aborning of the new Celtic.
An entirely different animal from the Former Managerial Incumbent's Team Structure!
Mr. Strachan still doesn't have all of his pieces of the jigsaw located in the proper places.
When He does....and he will.. Look
Out Broadway.....Here I Come!
To go into further detail regarding Team Tactics is a no go..
It is far too complicated a Subject to explain in 200 words or less.
Suffice to say........
Patience, Gentlemen Please!
Glasgow Celtic is in Good Strong Hands.......
I am placing my bets on the Good Ship Lollipop sailing into Port, First at the end of a Stormy Crossing!
Miss Pennypacker.
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Sir Paul and my Compadres,
As they say in the Business...
"Ready when you are...C.B.!!
Sorry about that,old chaps....
I obviously mistakenly surmised my small effort was lost in the Ether.
Oh! Well!
Nothing like a repeat of a good submission.......
That's what I say....
And I am sticking to it!
Miss Pennypacker.
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My friend,Miss Pennypacker-
ENOUGH ! ! !
noel.
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Paul,
Absolutely agree with the thread on modern day footballers as athletes. WGS must be THE archetypal antithesis of this. To play at the complete highest level until the age of 40 was a tremendous example to any footballer with an ounce of dedication to aspire to.
It's these ideals that he is attempting to instil at Paradise. If he can succesfully combine this very basic athletic programming with the 'intelligence' that he has also been alluding to recently, then he surely won't go far wrong.
BUT(always has to be one doesn't there)are certain old dogs willing to be taught new tricks? Hasn't there been much rumour about certain 'pros' not exactly happy about such methods?
If there is any credance to such claims then WGS has to prove he is as headstrong as he seems and do things his way.(First it was sclub7 now I am quoting Sinatra. I promise music references will stop here!)
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Sorry to digress slightly, first time user and all that. Quiz question.
Which Celtic player scored in 4 Hampden cup finals in the same season for Celtic. No tricks, real question.
Will post answer tomorrow.
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I will go for Dixie Deans.
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Good evening fellow tims. Haven't posted for quite a while, been busy with adv. higher english h/w!
I've read most of the comments in this thread and as usual I have been given some superb ammo.
Firstly, I was shocked to hear and see so many tims giving Didier the standing ovation he has deserved for a long time. I thought he was public enemy number one at CP. Seems we have a lot of hypocrites at CP these days! I'm sure it won't be long until he gets slagged for doing his job again.
Mo Camara, the new public enemy number one at CP it seems. Is it just me that thinks this guy is actually a class act??? I watched him play right in front of me in the first half and his defending was excellent and so were his runs forward along with his crosses, 1st and 2nd half. This guy deserves a standing ovation similar to Didier's. Mo Camara 3 is gonna be on my home top soon!
A lot of people saying that we don't have good enough finishers etc and we were poor first half on saturday. Yeah we missed a lot of chances but if Magic was playing I'm certain he would have had a hat trick by half time.
Some of the football on show at CP this season is just wet your pants with excitement stuff. I'm glad we have Naka and Maloney in the team showing us that they are a couple of top players.
Petrov has shown us what he can do, finally. Glad to see better performances from him.
Finally just to share some personal joy with everyone, school has become a great place to go to now that the Celtic, Kille and Hearts fans are all laughing at the huns. Difficult to spot a happy hun these days!
JoniBhoy18
The optimist
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Thanks St.Anthony,
No kip for me tonight until I dig that 'ole Bob Crampsey book out fron the back of the cupboard with all the scary things within!(the cupboard not the book)
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Thought for a moment there that our venerable chairman was posting .Could be wrong though!
Tactics used properly and with the right calibre off player can be lethal.
Therein lies the moral off the story.With the right calibre off player!
In order for WGS to be able to compete at the highest level,as we all want,he must be able to shop in the top shop not the corner shop.
With all due respect,no matter how good a tactician he is,and i certainly have great faith in him,we will get slaughtered,by the better European sides with some of the present first choice players o matter how good the tactics.
I know patience is the bi word and i am being as patient as i can be,however,and sorry to cover well trodden ground again,was a share issue off approx.15-20 million planned for the summer just past.
If not then fine,next topic please.But if all off the rumours had substance then why was the proposal shelved.
The money from this alleged move would have given WGS a heads start,So you see from my perspective i am prepared to be as patient as can be but will someone please tell me if all off this is a figment off my imagination.
Perhaps you may wish to comment Misspennypacker.
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PS, loved the thread about Celtic goalkeepers. Been watching Celts since 1972 and have never seen a class keeper, Bonner included. Have high hopes for Boruc. Poor Ally Hunter could have been something and ruined it one night V the Czechs at Hampden and was never the same.
Anyone remember Graham Barclay in goals ? One game only V Clydebank in 1975 ? Come to think of it who remembers Atholl Henderson, Brian Coyne or Hilary Carlyle ( yeah, really !!! ) all outfield and one game wonders.
Aaaah, memories.
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On the current subject, am I the only one concerned about the diamond formation in midfield ? Have never seen a Cetic side so devoid of width and lacking bite in the middle of the park.
We are just passing square from right to left and vice versa, there is no cutting edge.
Reminds me of Barnes' 4-2-2-2 formation, no width and too much stress on our full backs.
Hope I'm not tempting fate though............
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More recent blast from the past....
Bhoys & ghirls, I give you:
Fernando de Ornales!?!(Barnes season)
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Re quiz question it's not Dixie Deans.
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I'll go for Lou Macari!
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FBICFC, been out just read your mail. Stop being abusive, keyboard hard men don't impress me and there is no need for it, I am neither an imbicile or a part time Celtic supporter, let me guess 16 and been watching Celtic for 6 months.
I spoke to a Celtic player 6 weeks ago who told me that Adam Virgo was appauling, I watch him in the reserves at Airdrie against Rangers a few weeks ago, he was right. He should be getting fit in the reserves not the first team. It would have been interesting to see everyone "giving him a chance" if the ref had (rightly) given ICT the penalty on Saturday and we had dropped 2 points.
So again, on your comments grow up and have a sensible debate. You will learn when you leave school that insulting people who have a different opinion gets you no-where, and for the record I won't ever turn round and say what a good player I said Virgo was, I may turn around and apologise for having a go at him but I'm affraid I wont have the opportunity to do that.
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St.antony-thanks for that.
Jonibhoy18-
Breath of fresh air !
My opinion is in the same vein as yourself-the football we are watching this season is the most entertaining for a while.
Turning to Wednesday-Our old foes,Inter,take on rangers in a ghostly Champions League match.
Already Mr.McLeish has attempted to rally the(his?)supporters with cries of "its only 11 against 11"
-instead of the usual 11 against 12 that features here in Scotland?
Apparently the Inter squad are looking forward to this fixture as it will give them a break from their(usually)vitriolic fans.
They are seemingly going to approach this fixture as a practise match and fully expect to score at least SEVEN.
The management duo at ibrox are aware of the probability/possibility of this outcome-and ,in the next couple of days,expect to see them downsizing their expectations.....
noel.
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Jamiebhoy, you have heard correctly about old dogs and new tricks. My view; you never change people. Alas.
JoniBhoy18, I also noticed the irony that greeted Didier when he came on.
JonG, “shop in the top shop, not the corner shop” that is an old football misunderstanding. The very one that leads the vain football chairmen to flash the cash in the summer before leaving town in the autumn.
We need to be wiser than this.
St Anthony, I have no recollection of any the one-game-wonders you mentioned.
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Still doesn't answer the question though.What happened to stop the alleged plan?
You take my meaning literally Paul.
I am looking for a better class off player all around the park.Players who will assist the very good ones like Magic,Nakamura Shensuke,Stan,Boruc,and the good young players who have came through as well.
Some off our signings are obviously stop gap.Make up your own mind as to who they are.
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St. Anthony-
Paul Wilson is the name you were looking for.
Paul-shame on you!
The lovely Atholl Henderson(whataname!)was a class act-for,I think,135minutes in total for the hoops.
Brian Coyne-if it wasn,t for injury would have surely went on to become the next Kenny Dalglish.
Did Graeme Barclay not play TWO full games for the Hoops ?
Hilary Carlisle eventually went on to become a big star playing a real estate manager in Falcon Crest.
OKAY-I made the last one up.....
noel.
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My friend, No Bread No Cakes,
In view of what I just submitted.....Twice!
I am endeared to your display of perspicacity, vis a vis Celtic's New Tactical Approach.
Ref: to your submission 2.58 P.M.this blogday.
What you noted is the aborning of Team Celtic 2006....
And You, my friend, picked up on it!
Congratulations again!
Europe here come the Celts!
I feel that I would be remiss in my manners, if I did not present my praise to you, on your Shrewd Observation, vis a vis the slow,slow quick, quick, slow....Approach.
This, in the trade is known as ...
"The Victor Sylvester Sashay!"
When it is perfected at Celtic Park....
It is pure DYN-OH-MITE!
Patience, Mes Amis! Patience!
Hope you read this N.B.N.C.
I congratulate you sincerely,
You watch the unfolding of a game with your Head, not With you Heart!
An extremely difficult task!
You my friend, are a Celtic Treasure, a Thinking man's Supporter!
One of the Few Few .(Gotcha,Boss,that time!)
Miss Pennypacker.
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10:15 PM, Bhoydell
For you information I have been a Celtic supporter for 33 years, so your incorrect assumption that I am still at school is a bit wide of the mark, about as far from the mark as your comments about Virgo.
If you wish to call me a keyboard 'hardman' than please feel free, I have been called much worse, but if you feel the need to begin categorising bloggers on this site then I have a special category for people like you, but this being a family site I cannot tell you what it is, but I am sure you can make a good guess.
You call for a sensible debate, I have to say I admire you starting point for a debate, "This guys is exactly what it says on the tin " A Brighton player". £1.5M? this is Rafael like", a great starter, have you maybe been on a debating team at some point in your past?
Now on to your comments accusing me of insulting you, maybe you should look at your original post remarking on the fat content of Celtic players, or are you permitted to be 'insulting' towards people that have no way of coming back at you? Glass Houses & Stones methinks.
FBICFC
Keyboard Hardman Ltd
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My DEAR friend,Miss Pennypacker-
For your OWN sake-
BED !
NOW !
noel.
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My dear Friend Noel90,
I think that you do appreciate the good things in life after all...
I shall take your advice... under protest.......mind!
G'night.....Old Buddy,
Seeya,
Miss Pennypacker.
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why o why on scotsport "SPL" have I just watched the first 25 minutes about the huns in Europe?
Call me paranoid, but the Hearts game got about 5 minutes worth of chat!
My summary of the first part of the show...
"Hearts beat Ran***s and in other news the champions league winners elect will beat inter because there are no fans"
I think they should be biggin up hearts more so that the edinburgh huns fall from grace hurts even more when the green machine steam rollers the league!
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... followed by about 3 minutes of Celtic being unconvincing!
Big Archie bigging up the Beatt right enough, well deserved!
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Misspennypacker-
Otherside of the bed-
NOW !
:>)
noel.
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Miss Pennypacker.
Thanks for the 'big up' , I am sure i'm not the only one seeing this subtext of celtic's play emerging as a few are already alluding to it. The game plan is coming together, a few pieces and a few player to take their final place on the big green chessboard and we will storm the SPL and be excited about Europe again.
Bhoydell Re: your comments about Virgo. Glad i'm not on your bad side if you can be so ungracious about someone just recovering from a long lay off from a bad injury.
When I first saw your post I assumed you were an intruder from the follow follow mob!.
The boy Virgo is work in progress. Look back at McManus at the beginning of the season and look how far he has come in 6 weeks. The time to judge AV will be a couple of months down the line.
Ok, you may have seen him in the reserves, But WHO gets fully match fit in the reserves ??
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lookng for a second opinion bhoys...
http://www.we-9.com/we9art.jpg
is this our very own Japanese Genius on the cover of winning 11 - 9? (Asian name for pro evolution soccer 5 - its John Terry and Thierry Henry on that)
If it is, I wonder if Celtic will get royalties for this, we have his image rights after all!
It's one of the biggest games in the market so I'm sure it will be a good money spinner if it is.
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A fair amount of negativity in the posts today, MissPP obviously excluded. All this talk of Hungarian tactics in the 60's is amusing but the point is obviously well meant.
The new label we seem to have picked up is 'work in progress'. Is there a side anywhere in the world who are not WIP ? Every good side strives to improve every aspect of their game, that's what makes them good sides. Celtic are no different. Every player and every system is dispensable as soon as a better option presents itself. I firmly believe WGS has a vision for the way he wants the side to play but it not rocket science and it's no different to every other good manager in the world. Keep possession, work hard when you've got the ball, work hard to get it back when you haven't, score more goals than you concede. It's all about the players' ability and their attitude to playing for the club. When both these aspects of the team are right, the fans are happy and everthing is rosy in the garden.
We have players who have ability in abundance, we have players with huge potential and we have players who will dissappear when a better option presents itself. Is it ever going to be perfect - of course not - so let's not expect it.
Recent performances have been good. Better than good if you compare them to the first few games. The reason it is improving is because the players are getting used to playing together and are growing in confidence. We are nowhere near ready for a bigger stage than the SPL but we are steadily improving. Saturday's performance was excellent. If we had scored two or three of the clear cut chances we had, we would all be in a markedly different frame of mind. I thought it was the most comfortable 2-1 win I have ever seen.
On the subject of the defence that the leading article suggested needed work, I thought Telfer was as good as anyone on the park on Saturday and Agathe will struggle to displace him at right back. Bobo is looking rock solid. McManus was playing very well but if he is to miss 3 games as has been suggested, I expect Virgo will grab his chance with both hands and make that position his - McManus knows this, that is why he wouldn't admit he had a problem Saturday and had to be hauled off by the coaching staff. Camara has shown great improvement in recent weeks but he is still boxing above his weight. It's make or break time for him in the coming weeks - he needs to be at the top of his game if he is to avoid the axe. If he is eventually dropped it's going to be a huge ask for him to work his way back into the side. Overall, I think the defence has played very well in recent weeks, check the goals against column.
WGS has assembled a very good squad of players and we have options all over the park (Left back excepted). I don't think we are going to see many 4-0 and 5-0 wins this season, mainly because the other teams in the SPL are growing in strength and are better organised then before. This is a good thing. Every 3 points should be welcomed. The upcoming weeks will be interesting with games against Rangers and Hearts. Bring it on !!
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Greetings nighthawks...or good morning to the rest of you...
9.00pm where I am and as usual I am President of naemates club!!!
After a quick read I offer the following comments to those who read it Tuesday Morn...
John_H 9.20 ..You are correct sir....welcome as this wonderful forum is remember that we are a broad church and many of us are Thatchers Children...through no fault of their own...with a spirit crushing desire for my favorite phrase of our times...'Instant gratification'...I want it and I want it now...Sorry but true 'art' is not like that...only the 'media'
Second post to catch my attention was jamiebhoy 9.53....You too sir are absolutely correct...Strachan, IMO, is above all others the PARAGON of professionalism...Where a leader leads others will follow....
With respect to the dispute between Bhoydell 10.15 and fbicf.....Sorry bhoydell, while I respect your right to an opinion I believe you have erred for this simple reason....I have watched this man Virgo (from afar granted) and have been concerned by his gait and exuberance. As I have said before though...there are glimpses of profound intelligence in what he is trying to do....Now I ask you Bhoydell...If you were playing down the park and Strachan paid money to show his confidence in you...would you be a little over zealous....I know I would...Furthermore...support the man...If you do Know some player who said he was not up for it...keep it quiet this is a public forum...Think about that...
Anyway back to the thread....paul 67...A work in progress indeed...one of the pleasures in life is watching something grow and evolve....I ask what would have happened to Fergie at MAN U if the knee jerk fans had their way at any time in the foirst couple of years of his stewardship....No sublime fitba thats for sure.... Anyway two points to finish on with respect to the future...
1. The first goal on Saturday was quite simply SUBLIME!!!
2. You should all check out Celticblog (courtesy of Johnbhoy) for some prescient commentary..
KTF
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Hello every1, i havent posted for a long time, but have been reading with great interest, i just want to say that the the comments on Mr Camara are so unfair, this guy tries his heart out and you know what its like the more to try to please the more mistakes you make, this is the biggest stage he has ever played on. Can you imagine the nerves, at least he doesnt hide? I am sorry but i admire him and i hope he becomes a great player.
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Ditto swindonbhoy1 the bhoy Camara plays with his heart and is improving all the time...
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Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm . . . .
Last Thursday, Corpachbhoy posted about a report on the NL saga on Radio 1, which was, shall we say, incorrect?
He asked that we all write in to the Newsbeat e-mail address, which I did.
My e-mail -
"Dear Sir / Madam,
I must complain in the strongest possible terms about your Newsbeat report today stating that Scottish referees are saying they might go on strike following the leniency shown to Neil Lennon yesterday by the Scottish Football Association.
Please find below a link to the Times Online which gives a true, unbiased and accurate account of the incident.
Unfortunately, your report is yet another incidence of lazy journalism, as typified by the Scottish tabloid press, where there is an attitude of "never let the truth get in the way of a good story". Mr. Lennon was charged by the Scottish FA with "misconduct of a significantly serious nature", SFA-speak for using foul and abusive language.
Mr. Lennon was NEVER charged with shoving or assaulting Stuart Dougal for the simple reason that he NEVER laid a hand on Mr. Dougal or indeed any other officials during or after the match.
I would be grateful if you would apologise to Mr. Lennon, and indeed to all Celtic fans unfortunate enough to have had to listen to your blatant lies. I would expect this type of journalism from the Scottish tabloids, but had believed the BBC (at UK level, not BBC Scotland) to be impartial and willing / able to report the truth.
I look forward to hearing your correction in the next report.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,438-1791560,00.html"
(This was an article listed by a previous poster.)
Received the following from Newsbeat Deputy Editor -
"Thanks for contacting us about the Neil Lennon story we ran last Wednesday. You're right, we got our facts wrong on this one. Our bulletin writer misread an account of the incident and we did a follow up to this story on Thursday where we put a correct version of events. Sorry for the error. "
So complaining DOES work, at least at national level.
Can we try the same thing with the fat one on Radio Scotland on a Saturday evening? Nah - nae chance o' that working wi' him!!
Hail! Hail!
Curly
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malone19 8.52PM
Oooooooooops sorry I'll buy you a virtual pint in the Bloggers Arms by way of apology.
By the way do you know what dontbrattbackinanger meant by 40yearoldVirgo?
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I don't believe it, idiot am I
it's a play on the new movie 40 year old virgin.......
Coffee I need coffee!!!!!
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There is an interesting article in the Herald this morning.... the Premiership in two years plan had better have some truth in it, otherwise the cloth we cut from may just become TAXI cloth... £1.50 a mile.
THE Old Firm have been helpless to prevent a potentially costly amendment to the UEFA Cup's revenue distribution policy....
http://www.theherald.co.uk/sport/47719.html
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FBICFC, if you are 33 then sorry ..... sorry I gave you the excuse of being a kid, your an idiot. Better hurry up its broo money day.
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Just found out that there are no plans to show the Celtic v Hearts game in a few weeks. Its not because they cant show more of wont show it. Setanta state they are only allowed to show 4 games per season from each ground max.
They say they want to keep their options open as the league unfolds.
The clubs CAN however apply to have extra matches shown live. Celtic have NOT done this.
I find this incredulous on two fronts. Those of us who cannot for whatever reasons make it to the ground are left listening to the radio. Celtic say they are in debt, is this not a way to make money PAY PER VIEW, celtic get with the programme fgs.
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I am heartened to read of the support and patience that some bloggers are giving to Mo Camara and Adam Virgo.
However, all is going well at present and I feel that we are only a defeat away from a "crisis" as far as many would be concerned. Particularly, those susceptible to Radio phone-in's. If anyone gets the urge to call in at the drop of a hat to slag off Celtic, please resist.
We're still re-building, and Virgo is now just coming back from 3-4 months out. He must be given the chance to remove the saddlebags that are his a*se cheeks. Strachan is just the man to do it.
Also, IMO whilst I do fully welcome the genuine challenge of Hearts as a breath of air I must state for the record - Ewan Cameron is one of the few jour*alists that get under my skin. He is walking human filth.
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Al Obundy
I see your point but there would be a huge outcry from season ticket holders if Celtic were seen to be the instigator in moving home games from Saturday afternoons.
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Al Obundy,
From a selfish point of view it is good news for me as my final weekend as a batchelor is centred around 3pm Celtic Park! 99 times out of 100 I'd be screaming at Setanta to show it being exiled as I am normally.....
BDB
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Just made an enquiry re the new sports bar at CP. Couldn't believe they're asking £125.00 + vat per season for the privilege. And that's for kids as well.
Does anyone know of any bars in the vicinity of the ground that allow kids in?
Thing is we travel with a CSC and arrive at the ground at 1.30pm.
Not too bad if the weather's fair but it can be miserable during the winter.
BTW my boy's twelve and very well behaved.
Cheers
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BhoyDell 9:46
You are out of order. Insulting people is the easy option. Offering a winning argument is much harder.
We would all be grateful if you could concentrate on the latter and not the former.
Yours in Celtic.
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Well, that's me off again. I'll hopefully see you all again in 3 or 4 weeks. Off to Australia for a few weeks....
Shabhoy, where at CP is the sportsbar?
Others....cut yourselves some slack. Celtic are very inconsistent right now. Within any 10 minute period, they play some sublime football, followed by some awful stuff. My optimism took a step backwards on Saturday. Next week I may be dreaming of European glory....:)
Point is, virtually EVERY point made on this blog has an element or semblance of truth to it. So, don't be jumping down each others' throats.
Miss PP, I enjoy your posts. However, please bear in mind that most people on here make up their minds through what they see through their own eyes. Virgo, like everyone else, can only gain credibility through his own actions and performances. No doubt he'll have lots of opportunities to show us what he's got. Until then, the Jury is still locked in that wee room, munching pizza.....
I hope to find you all in good spirits when I get back.
Paul, thanks for letting us drop in......
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Weeron...please don't go:(
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Miss Pennypacker
Good read, twice! (although noticed the few differences)
The 4-2-4 Hungarian-esque tactic is potentially a real 'Celtic way' ideal of slick attacking football with flare but the worry is that we come up against a team that plays one or even two genuine wingers or wide men. Our full backs will be exposed every time they attack. If the central-mid two cover then you have a gaping hole up the middle.
So far this season we have had real cause for concern when we've faced a team with a competent wide midfielder and overlapping wing/full back.
Do you mean play this tactic when suits, eg. most SPL teams at Celtic Park?
I have been trying to find an old article and wonder if anyone can help. Basically it was a study over several years of goals scored and where they come from. From memory it was around 60 or 70% from the wing, 20 from set plays and penalties and 10 to 20 from one touch passing through the middle.
MON played the percentages, no doubt about it. Having said that Arsene Wenger has put together possibly the most attractive side the EPL has seen without a genuine winger in it.
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Enjoy Aus. weeron, hope we are top of the league when you get back.
New article posted.
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Enjoy Aus. weeron, hope we are top of the league when you get back.
New article posted.
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Have seen reports about both Celtic and Rangers being interested in Lee McCulloch.
Speaking to a couple of mates who support Wigan, they say that the reported £3,000,000 value being banded about is far more than they would pay for him.
In fact neither of them had anything positive to say about the guy. Notice that the comments on the Manchester Evening News website weren't exactly complimentary either.
Hail Hail
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Are Celtic making progress?
I believe the very simple answer is yes.
We have a much more mobile outfit whichever team selection Gordon Strachan makes. There is a genuine feeling of expectation whenever Beattie, Maloney or Nakamura are on the ball and the defence has worked hard since the dark early days of Artmedia and Motherwell.
I strongly believe that we will win the SPL at a canter given Rangers involvement in Europe and the probability that Hearts will find the going too tough when they find themselves on the wrong side of injury and suspension. Celtic appear to me to be as strong as they have been for a couple of years and the only missing ingredient is experience of each other and belief/confidence that they are being lead from the front(training ground).
Gordon Strachan has a great opportunity to emulate MON's first season treble (at least put us in the position of being clear in the league and dismissing Rangers from the League Cup) and I for one will be delighted to give him the support he will be due if he achieves this.
Thank you for the welcome by the way Paul.
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cc the boxer
It is Nakamura on the front cover with Zico.
Also the intro video features Nakamura.
However don't know anything about image rights.
It was No.1 in the Japanese charts for a while!!
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I am still really shocked by everyone's lack of respect for Hearts title challenge.
Sure, they don't have the deepest of squads at present. But of all the teams in the SPL including Celtic and Rangers, Hearts are in the best financial position to invest with their sugar daddy personally underwriting the wages of some key players.
It would be arrogance and sheer folly in the extreme to not take this threat seriously at this stage - something I didn't think Cetic fans had in common with Rangers fans.
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Have we made progress since Bratislava - have not seen anything yet that suggests we would not go there again and get another stuffing - OK Boruc would perhaps keep it down to three. Resurgence in the SPL - don't think so - R's are in a complete mess and our game against them a few weeks ago belonged to a Sunday morning in Hackney Marsh (that's Sunday League venue in East London) - we are busy tinkering with players which even at their best will see us in a quick CL exit, should we ever get there. Take Petrov, Balde and a fit/injury-free Agathe out of the frame and we would be competing with the R's in mid-table. As it is we just might hang in with an improved Hearts whose lack of depth just might edge us past the post. But then what? Enter Barca, Bayern, Lyon and Milan. Ouch! but as one punter said earlier - it will still be a nice day out!
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