 Monday, October 17, 2005
Celtic midfield gamble fails against Hearts
When I wrote my article on Friday, I feared we were going to drop Shaun Maloney and, as a result, I feared we were going to drop points against Hearts.
Gordon Strachan has won me over with his new-Celtic, having made tangible progress towards a establishing a fast, passing football. So much so, I feel frustrated that he reverted to the robust style we have seen decay before our eyes over the last twelve months.
Having stuck with his fragile looking defence to see them gel into a vastly improved unit, he opted to leave Maloney, our best player in recent weeks, on the bench.
There was a moment early in the second half when Nakamura broke quickly on the right. He played a 25 yard pass into space in front of Alan Thompson that Thompson could not reach.
This started a debate around me; was it a good pass which Thompson was slow to react to, or was it a poor pass?
Thompson moved forward as quickly as he could, but he did not have the pace to collect the pass. The pass was a cracker, though; one that Maloney would have reached.
Nakamura is a special talent. The five goals we scored before playing Livingston were all from Nakamura forward passes. He thinks and moves quicker than most players and he needs to play with others capable of thinking and moving quickly.
When he plays with Maloney he flourishes; he is peripheral to the team when Maloney is not playing. Play them both or sit Shunsuke up beside me.
It was a gamble bringing Lennon and Thompson back into the team. Having watched Alan Thompson recover from several ankle injuries, we know he is a player who needs a few games to reach match fitness. Bringing him back for an important game – just as we done in Bratislava – does him no favours.
Neil Lennon has not played in a month, and I have no doubt that his substitution after 70minutes was due to concerns about his match fitness.
Celtic closed out the game playing their best football, with Maloney and Nakamura probing for an opening and Sutton looking comfortable in the holding role. By then, however, it was too late to penetrate a Hearts defence who were well into their stride.
The gamble did not work and I am sure that Maloney will be restored for the visit to Kilmarnock.
Hearts were excellent.
Injuries and suspensions meant that this was the weakest side they had fielded so far this season. For all the possession Celtic had, the Hearts reserve goalkeeper was only called upon to save shots from outside the box; he was unlucky with Beattie’s goal, which took an unkind deflection. It was a real disappointment that we did not put him under more pressure.
Paul Telfer did not take the opportunity to clear before Hearts scored. After this, Hearts were content to defend their box and play Celtic on the break – a tactic that would have produced greater dividends had Artur Boruc not produced an excellent save. What a bonus it is to have him signed up until 2009.
While I am sure Celtic will get better as the season progresses, I suspect the same might be true of Hearts; you can be sure they will strengthen in January. We underestimate them at our peril.
They have also done what we have not managed this season – won a big game.
Whereas Hearts have beaten four of their rivals from the top half of the table, we have only overcome Hibernian. Thank goodness that lot are on the cusp of imploding.
Martin O’Neill’s contract ended within the twelve-month notice period of termination provided for. Celtic and O’Neill negotiated an arrangement to bring the contract to an early conclusion, some of the details of which appear to be in the public domain. The notion that Martin is waiting to pull strings in the background, alas exists only in our fantasies.
Bet it sold some newspapers, though.
850 Comments:
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first comment?
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Great news on Boruc. At last we have a number one keeper. Someone to feel confident about.
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A draw wasn't the worst result on Saturday & we really missed Zurawski up front, however there is a lack of rhythm to our play. The 2 full backs are shocking & that must be addressed in january if we're to have any chance of the title. From what i can see we've got Petrov, Nakamura, Maloney, Zurawski on one wave length - the other players are still playing the MON style. Still looks disjointed to me.
Boruc signing is a major boost
btw - can anyone clarify. I was watching 'The Johhny Doyle' tribute on the big screen in the stadium & seen footage of him scoring. We were wearing a Yellow strip with green shorts. I presume this was around the late 70's but i can't remember it at all myself
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Did I miss something?
Artur Boruc signed up 'till 2009.
When did this happen?
Sean
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Great news on Boruc have to say I had my doubts. Nonetheless Paul Kojo and Fargo et al called it right, well done.
I to think that it was a clear foul on Boruc for the Hearts goal. Listening to talk sports last night leccy was on talking about the game. He was told by Gabriel Marcoti that it was a clear foul on the keeper, his response was basically so what Celtic get enough decisions going there way.
The Scottish media are begining to show their hand for Hearts to win the SPL, oh it will be sweet, sweet, sweet when we take flag.
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Paul agree totaly on Shaun and Shunsuke. Maloney and Beattie give him options.
A cameo of this, after BBJ came on, was Naka bearing down on the Hearts defence Beattie crossed his path to give him an option to his right, Maloney to his left. Naka turned left and tried the reverse pass to Beattie (who had a better position for the shot than Maloney). Only a trailing leg foiled the disguised pass and an almost certain goal.
The ball broke back to BBJ, who was just catching the attack, and he tried to curl it into the RHS of the goal. Maloney still had a clear opportunity for a shot at goal!
The old guard can be used in this team to great effect, but I feel in limited numbers. We can't have NL, AT, CS and BBJ all in the same team. NL or AT or CS in the middle and CS or BBJ up front. Any more than 2 would slow down the natural pace of the rest of the team.
BTW I still hate Agathe!!! Make him full back fine! He shouldn't be allowed to cross the halfway line. He does my head in!
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If Martin is receiving £500k a year over the next two years it suggests that Celtic terminated his contract. Martin was on a one-year rolling contract worth a million a year. No year's notice period was given by Martin who left to care for his ill wife. So why is he getting £1m from us over the next two years?
Was his fallout with Quinn and the board so cataclysmic that they terminated his deal leaving them with no choice but to pay his £1m wage over two years instead of in one go?
Perhaps Martin engineered the situation himself - god knows he was intelligent enough to see the writing on the wall. Questions, questions, questions.
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WGS again went for the guys that have been there and done it!
Sutton, Thompson and Lennon, your time's are up.
We don't need Lennon against teams that sit back and defend, well done WGS for taking him off.
Last chance for Thompson, he didn't take it.
Love the big guy, a couple of years agao, he would have scored 2, but if Hearts were wanting to attacking, I think Sutton would have been found out.
Paul, what fantasies are you having! We watched a Hearts team play the same way we did, i don't want to go back to that.
Northy about your last post, I couldn't see celtic scoring against Aberdeen, Hibs and Motherwell last year, so it wasn't always smelling of flowers when MON was the boss nor goals in the last minutes of games!
I hope MON isn't advising WGS, we just got rid of his signings, fixed the scouting system and in the process of getting the players fit and playing football.
thank you WGS
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The MadMurph
A question isn't a comment and so the first comment is big liam's.
Boruc's signing is on the Celtic website.
The full backs can't be playing the MO'N way when they weren't here then.
I would say that Mo Camara crosses the ball whipped in from a forward position while Alan Thompson plays it in from deep. Camara's crosses need less work to direct them to goal. Camara, Maloney and Nakamurs all play beeter together than when Alan Thompson plays. Looking forward it looks to me that Thompson is now no longer first choice, let's have Maloney in for the next four games and give the manager something to think about for the Rangers games.
Boruc surely must share some of the blame for the goal (if not most of it). He does not yet have full confidence when coming out of his six yard box when the ball is in open play (cf Watterhus on Sunday)
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Great News on Boruc.
If Martin O'Neill's contract fantasies are untrue which I now sternly believe thanks to you Paul, why hasn’t the Celtic PR came out and blasted the news of the screws for printing tomfoolery.
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Well done to Kojo for predicting that Boruc would be the first present to be plonked under the Xmas tree at Celtic Park.
Was disappointed in Sutton, seemed disinterested, his header straight at the goalie was poor, that he didn't seem to care was poorer still.
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great news about boruc.
hats off to kojo for the inside info on boruc.
(agree to disagree on petrov)
regarding boruc...once again another example of our outstanding media!!!!!!
northy 3.39..YES maloney is the man of the moment. he has been since the start of the season including the friendlies.
he is the most consistent on form player at celtic park and we should be playing him from the start.
i too remember maloney going on mazy runs and losing the ball but he has come back a stronger, quicker and more intelligent player who rarely loses the ball.
he at the moment is better than nakamura and should be starting ahead of him nevermind thompson!
he's on fire the now and we've got to play him as he will naturally take a dip in form and by then it will be a wasted chance.
you mentioned henrik rarely lost the ball.
i beg to differ.
a lot of moves broke down when they got to henrik as he tried a pass or move that would split open the defence and quite often they didn't come off.
my point is we as fans allowed henrik the licence to try these things because we knew what he was trying to do and also when it did come off it was, put quite simply, football genius!
he knew he had the backing of the fans.it. he earned it!!
shaun's a different type of player and still a very young man.
he is more of a lubo type player than nakamura.
give him the time and space to earn our trust and we will reap the benefits.
just ask the hearts defence what they thought of shaun.
oh aye did anyone hear boruc's name getting chanted by the polish support at last week's england game?
it was pronounced "baaaarrooooochh".
i'd never heard it said like that before!
Emjay
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Mad Murph
Didier Agathe is a fantastic player and was pivitol for the success enjoyed under MON.
His pace,tackling,strenght and overall work rate are exceptional and it is a shame that he is so undervalued and unnaprecciated.
He has had to put up with constant dogs abuse from his own supporters because they do not understand his contribution to the team.
However, to say you 'hate' him is a bit of a kick in the nuts for one of Celtic's most influencial over the past few years.
Think again before you write something like this.
Sean
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Been watching on the sidelines for a while but few things to say. Firstly agree with the view our full backs are shocking but so was the line up. Thommo should never have started in front of maloney. Every test the Ginger one has had he has failed. We lost against the huns, he led us out of europe and now he lost the tactical battle to Burley. When is his much vaunted managerial skill goibng to surface as i aint seen it yet.
Yes hearts are a very good team but with the players we have assembled we should have won.
Midfield was key and petulance from thommo has become the norm when a bit of drive and enegry was needed.
Still the positive side is we did not get beat and the huns are going from bad to worse which is funny to see just hope they dont sack mcleish as we all know who they would go for along the m8.
On the o'neil story think its just a cheap way to pay off the package in his contract so if the hun tabloids want to print it fair play to them I would rather read about signing a world class keeper and the huns firing blanks
All on in all no a bad weekend great game to be at huns didnt capatilse and the board see we have to be better tactically and personel wise if we are to beat the cousins of william.
Bring on Killie should be a good laugh and a few beers on the bus.
PS when was the last time the huns had such a bad team
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HistoryReader,
I just got back to my pc and refreshed the main page. It had no comments, I hadn't looked to see what time it was posted. I was going to go into the full "yes ya beauty, first comment" type post, when it dawned on me that by the time I typed it (one fingered!!) someone would beat me to it. So I kept it short.
Even so, I wasn't sure I would be first, hence the question mark.
Beside, many times someone comes back with a question to Paul's post, so your argument is invalid.
I claim first comment for the Murphy clan and all things Celtic!!
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ok sean.zo' 88
hate is maybe too strong, but he does drive me nuts. I do appreciate all of his defensive capabilites.
What I miss is the devstation his pace could cause to any team, eg AJax, when used in an attack. Where did that go? When I say hate, I mean it from the point of view he drive me to distraction.
You tell me, as a full paid up memeber of the DA fan club, where did those runs go? Why now does he seem almost afraid to try to go beyond the play, to recieve a pass, or beyond the man tryng to defend against him?
As for the abuse from fans, it's bourne of sheer frustration. However wrong it maybe, the way to ease it is for him to through cation to the wind and take a man on.
How many player can live with his pace?
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On the pronunciation of our new Petr-Cech-esque goalkeeper's name, didn't one of our Polish friends post a while back that it is "(clap clap clap) Boroots"?
This is a fantastic signing, and the board should take some credit for responding so quickly to the rapidly changing situation and tying up one of our more prized assets.
He could still go to Arsenal of course, but we'd make a huge profit now!
On the MON situation, could it be, if the media speculation (and that's all it is) is true, that this is all part of the deal that guarantees MON's return to Paradise when he eventually comes back out of his temporary "retirement"?
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I didnt think Hearts were that good, they did what every team does at Celtic Park bar Rangers, defended in numbers. The disappointing thing for me, was we never looked capable of opening them up in the 2nd half from open play.
Just as Lennon was Marty's blue eyed boy, it looks like Telfer could be Strachans, and if this is the case this will cause problems.
A blind man can see Telfer is a midfielder who has slowed with age and converted to a full back, he will cost us more goals.
I thought Nakamura was very poor, he looks half terrified of physical contact, and until he gets used to this aspect of games, this will hopefully come with games, then i dont think he should be an automatic pick, especially if Maloney is on the bench.
That was the 1st game i have ever seen Chris Sutton play up front for Celtic, and come away saying he was poor.
Petrov needs to stay behind everyday in training for the forseeable future, and practice on striking a moving ball from more than 18 yards out. He was good in his usual fits and bursts, but he has to add that part to his game.
I was disappointed with the performance myself, we are still a helluva long way off getting anywhere near where we need to be.
On what i seen of Hearts, they wont win the league.
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Paul67,
when can we get an edit button, so I can fix all my spelling mistakes/typos?
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Can anyone answer these simple questions? Are we still paying MON? And, if so, how much and why? Brushing it off as press kite-flying isn't good enough.
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Could it be that Agathe's forays forward we're curtailed through withdrawal of his licence to maraud.His quick reactions and sheer pace essential to a defensive unit conspiciously lacking both.
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Paul67 - where you at the game on Saturday? Did you not think that the ball was basically hacked out of Boruc's hands before they scored? If the ball was still in free play then their guy would not have fallen over when he 'intercepted'.
Respect to Kojo for consistently calling correctly the outcome of all the Boruc specualtion.
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Thompson, Sutton and Lennon. Don't slam the door on the way out guys.
I'll ask the question again - do we need a defensive midfield player?
We have Pearson, Wallace, Virgo, Du Wei and a health chorus line of young talent waiting in the wings. WSG does not need to pander to these dinosaurs (Faithful servitude does not put the ball in the back of the net).
Out with the old
In with the new
ta dee da dee da
erm...death to the orcs
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Move Tefler to Def Mid and bring in Agathe for RB.
That get's rid of Lennon.
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Delighted with Beattie. He's getting better all the time and for me was a stand out as man of the match.
Glad we're protecting Maloney to some extent. Having had a year out injured WGS seems to have worked wonders with his confidence bringing him through originally as a sub. There's a long way to go and many games in which Maloney can be the main man. Possibly even the league match in the double header in November. Too much too soon would be a mistake. I don't even need to list other player examples. Keep the big picture in mind.
The work-in-progress is still very much that, but no penalty clauses breached yet as far as I can see.
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Paul - Nakamura's technical ability is something else to behold, but to be brutally honest i feel that he hasn't really delivered in the games against our 2 main rivals - Hearts & Rangers. I would rather see him playing just behind the strikers as i'm sure he could play killer passes for the frontmen in there rather than isolated on the right wing. I think he missed Zurawski more than anyone on Saturday because with all respect to Beattie, he doesn't play with the same intelligence as the pole.
At this stage i couldn't really call a clear league winner as i think ourselves, hearts & rangers look very ordinary.
2 new full backs, 2 quick midfielders to play alongside Petrov in the middle & a quick striker to play alongside Zurawski
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Boruc
Agathe Balde McManus Camara
Telfer
Nakamura Maloney
Petrov
Beattie Zurawski
Lots of pace and skill.
Ideally you would have a pacy DMC with great passing and long range shooting skills. Anybody no anyone a Celtic Park that has these attributes?
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no = Knew
ya ken?
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Damn!
Knew = know
I'll get my coat.
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Tom64
Are you posting from the pub?
1.14...
I'll ask the question again - do we need a defensive midfield player?
1.19...
Move Tefler to Def Mid and bring in Agathe for RB.
Only noticed because they were consecutive posts. Perhaps you advocate the short-sharp long-ball game? :)
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Tom64,
Is this a fargo style clue to a pop group? a pacy DMC
Is it Run DMC?
I'll walk this way, as I get ma coat!!
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DMC = Defensive Midfielder Central
It's from Championship Manager, a PC based game for the young 'uns apparently.
I suggested Telfer as DMC as we appear to currently play with a DMC. However the question is still valid - do we need one?.....I would like to hear your opinions.
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Tom64, just before you get your coat, what exactly did Lennon do wrong on Saturday (other than tire?). We don't need a defensive mid, put Telfer at defensive mid - which is it? I thought Neil had a decent game, and was required against Hearts, breaking down many of their few forays forward.
Danny, couldn't agree more about Sutton - he should have taken the opportunity to prove he's the man we've been waiting for at centre forward, but looked lethargic and disinterested.
And Nakamura? Could have gone with or instead of Thompson, for all the difference he made - we created nothing down the right. Paul67, I'll watch with interest to see if he plays better with Maloney on the park - personally, I could understand why Thompson got the nod against Hearts (and Artmedia at Celtic Park, where I thought he dictated the game) - but agree that it could be for the last time......
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I thought Beats was excellent on Saturday. Surely the long term plan must be a Beattie / Zurawski partnership up front? I think if we had been able to play that on Saturday we would have won.
I'm still confident that we will win the league this season and the reaction of both sets of fans and players told its own story on Saturday. Do you think if we were 3 points clear of Hearts after 9 games we would celebrate a point a Tynecastle the way the Hearts players and supporters did on Saturday. No, we'd be gutted that we had missed an opportunity to open the gap further.
Anyway is this Hearts resurgence as good for the Scottish game as everyone is suggesting? We've still ended up with a 2 horse race for the title. :o)
On to 2 unrelated topics.
1. Just where is Stuart Dougal these days? Surely Saturday's game should have been the place for one of Scotland's top refs? Instead we had some guy who thought Bobo winning a header was an automatic free-kick to Hearts. Do the SFA think that perhaps he wasn't entirely blameless for the Lenny incident at Ibrox?
2. And on the subject of Lenny, if you want to see the definition of irony in print read Darryl Broadfoot's report in the Herald today on Saturday's game. He actually says that the support shown to Lenny before the match was over the top and that you would think Lenny had been incarcerated rather than serving a 3 game ban!
Well done Darryl. Completely missed the point as usual.
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Kojo
Cograts on your confidence of the signing of Boruc, hope you are wrong about Stan but will wait and see.
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Couple of points for our Polish friends -
Firstly, what is the reaction in Poland to Artur signing a long term deal with Celtic?
Secondly I notice on the celticpoland website that there is a story mentioning Harry Kewell and Gordon Strachan...can you translate?
Looks to me like we are interested????
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Tom64
Don't take this as personal but that's a lot of rubbish. If the question is valid (an I assume your answer is no, we don't need one) then you should be suggesting alternatives and I'm sure that would make us all think.
If you are going on the basis that we are going to play one anyway then to suggest Paul Telfer is a better option than Neil Lennon is quite absurd.
To answer the question then no, a defensive midfielder, IMO is not always necessary in the SPL. It is necessary in almost all away games, however, and always in Europe. So let's see what a midfield duo of Nakamura ahead of Petrov with Maloney on the right and Wallace on the left looks like. Throw McGeady into the mix too.
Employ this against teams who defend throughout at Celtic Park, Kille, Dunfermline, Livi etc
Now, buck up your ideas and ask sensible questions, some of us only get to look in at lunchtime, and above all else stay out the pub on a Monday, boy.
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I'll go for BlantyreKev's short-sharp long ball game. This site now goes way beyond not being lazy journalism. From POMO through total football to the SSLBG (short-sharp long ball game), it's a whole new ball game.
These days isn't there a DMC or "water carrier" in all teams eg Lambert, Deschamps and the present master exponent Makaele?
Now if we are talking about Celtic under Gordon Strachan playing in a pure sense "The Celtic Way", then I'm all for it. But there are times (Motherwell last 10 minutes last season, the job needed 2 DMCs) or even parts of games when you want to kill the game but also get the ball back and a DMC such as Neil Lennon is statistically a valuable player, still.
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Tom64
Your team layout of 4-1-2-1-2 looks a lot like the experimentation that John Barnes tried back in 1999
If I remember correctly this was fine whilst Henke dragged the opposing back line around to create space (I'm assuming Majiec would do that for you) but as soon as we lost the King to that awful leg break in Lyon that formation started to unravel.
Anyway teams soon realised that it could be overrun with plenty of mobile hard tackling midfielders and as they say the rest is history
Not sure any of us want to go back to that unless we know for sure that when one of our attacks breaks down the space will be covered.
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Bhono,
He's slow and he can't hit a barn door with his shooting. He was overlapped by the defensive line at one point. This means that he could not be supporting the attack.
I am of the opinion he should not have been offered the contract extension. There, I said it. Dig me a grave and tear up my season ticket. Play the pipes lowly and lower the flag slowly.. someone has dared to critise Old ginger nut.
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Thanks for your comment re hhplc jnr. Intend to make my formal announcement through CQN, not through lazy papers!
Boruc.....Yeeeehaaa!!!!!!!!
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As per early point - we do not need a DMC! when the other team is not intrested in going for a victory, which is most SPL games, Lennon is great at breaking up play, not needed towards the end on sat, Thats why he was taken off, we were going for victory.
Nakamura didn't have many people making runs on saturday, and when they did, there wasnt much room.
It was a cup tie type of game, not what we wanted.
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Tom64, he's never had pace, or a targeted shot worth talking about. His job isn't primarily about supporting the attack. Doesn't mean his isn't required (although agreed, not for every game). Nevertheless.....he did play a crucial part in our goal.
Anyway, you're opinion is as valid as mine or anyone else's, so we'll call off the gravediggers for now.....
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I feel that I need to disagree with many of the posters on here about a defensive midfielder. I think that they are an essential part of the modern game. Just as an attacking midfielder links the midfield and the forwards, then a defensive midfielder links the defence to the midfield.
While it is safe to say that Neil Lennon's best days are behind him, WGS should be looking to replace him, either with someone from the reserves or by purchasing someone. I would resist the temptation of signing Roy Keane and would be more happier if we contacted Real Madrid for Gravesen, who looks to be ont he way out.
While Lennon is quite one dimensional, someone like Gravesen would get forward to support Petrov and the other offensive players.
Paul Telfer was signed as a back up player and he should revert to that role now. He had a very poor match on Saturday, and I am already having sleepless nights with his lack of pace against Lovelypants.
Varga's Shampoo - The yellow strip that you are referring to was from the late 70s and it was worn against St Mirren and Hibs. I had the strip and it was made from a horrible material that made you itch.
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I feel a bit sorry for the likes of Thompson, Lennon, Sutton, Hartson at the minute because they have been great players for Celtic & have cut it both against the filth & in europe, however they have all lost pace & that edge to their game that seen us boss so many games under MON's reign.
The harsh truth of the matter though is that we need to replace them with pacier alternatives
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Midnight Caller,
all strips were made of that horrible material in those days. When men were men and so were women!!
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Timgreen, Martin O’Neill’s severance package has not been disclosed (and I am sure will not be). It is quite possible we Martin did not receive all monies he was due up front and is being paid over a period. Reading anything more into this is press kite-flying.
PBTL123, I was at the game, though from my seat it was not clear the ball was in Boruc’s hands. Either way; safety first – clear your lines – as I am sure Mr T will do next week.
Tom64, I know where you are coming from. I have been quietly asking for some time if we need a defensive midfield player in the SPL.
Truth is, it depends on the defence!
VargasShampoo, agree, there is no outstanding team in the league at the moment.
TheMadMurph, “Run DMC” – v funny.
Look forward to hearing from you hailhailplc.
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Tom-64 -1.24
Tom I would not disagree with most of the team you outlined. My only problem would be Telfer in the midfield. I would like to see a Keane (YOUNGER VERSION)or a Graveson type player in their someone who can put a hard tackle in and mix it a bit.
A midfield trio of Petrov (running power, endless energy}, Maloney (guile, skill, energy, and attack minded, still learning), (Nakamura (skill, good passer, eye for the ball), is to me a bit on the light side a bruiser with vision and skill thats whats needed.
Watched the highlights with some friends of varying persuasions Gooner, Hammer and Yido all thought to a man that it WAS a foul on Boruc.
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agree al obundy...
a good hard man in the midfield allied with skill and pace is what we need. plus that vital ingredient. Character.
Emjay
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Working flat out like the Tazmanian Devil on speed so heres the quick comments.
Lennon - still got something to offer.
Thommo - bye and thanks
Sutton - wait till the seasons end
Petrov - new 5 year deal please
Maloney - first team place now!
Boruc - YIPPEE!!
Rangers - Ha Ha
Hearts - good but not good enough
Now back to work.
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Boruc Signing Press Conference Free Webcast link
here
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Paul67 - I agree that it's 'possible' that MON didn't get all dosh up front but shouldn't we know? The rumour suggests £10,000 per week so we're not talking peanuts even by crazy football standards. Shouldn't we know? Or is the talk of better communication just a smokescreen.
I'm positive about the future but I'd like transparency on funds - especially to players and other staff.
If it is kite-flying - why no detailed denunciation from the Club?
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On MON, it just confirms what I'd already heard. He was sacked. A person is obviously not entitled to any severance if he resigns.
The consultancy is just a ruse to:
1) Keep the fans happy as a sizable number would not have been happy at his departure (not me personally - his personal problems had made him incapable of doing a job for which he was being very well rewarded)
2) Keep MON happy as it avoids some taxation issues of all revenue occuring in the one year.
B
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I'm not trying to put myself forward as a kojo or anything, but before the game I did write that if WGS reinstated both Thommo and Lennon to the midfield, we wouldn't win. I feel this was one of WGS's first big tests, and he unfortunately failed. I'm not against WGS, I'm happy to give him time to prove himself, but if he is to prove a worthy successor to MON, he's going to have to take some big decisions and limit the use of the old guard. As I have been saying on here for months, no more than 2 at a time.
Lennon in midfield and Sutton/Hartson when space permits up front. Beattie can't be dropped and Magic is probably ahead of them both in my eyes too. I think Beattie has shown recently that he's really maturing. Before he used to really annoy me by losing the ball all the time and spending large parts of the game on his arse. He's now holding the ball up really well - it looks like he's been learning a thing or two from BBJ and Sutton. Add his brilliant pace to this recipe, and he's really starting to look like a player. I'd like to see him and Magic forming a relationship (oo er) now.
I think Agathe now deserves a chance ahead of Telfer - he looked out of his depth on Saturday. If we'd held onto our lead for a while, I'm sure we'd have picked up 3 points. Camara is the most improved player at Parkhead, but I still think he's another weakness. Two quality full backs in January and a bit of bottle for WGS and I think we could well be title favourites. Hearts did okay, but they're no world beaters, and if the gers continue to play the way they are, they'll be out of the race by Christmas.
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OK, I've been lurking around for a while reading this site but today I can contain myself no longer and have to join in. Well it's either this or actually work...
Agathe - when he made those now mythical runs down the right there was always one man feeding him the ball, picking it up again when Didier's bottle went, playing it in behind the fullbacks and even occasionally overlapping himself: Paul Lambert. Since he faded out of the team Agathe has never had that support IMO. As a result he was switched to fullback and told not to overlap with Petrov, probably because of a lack of faith in the central defenders. And let's face it the fella's over 30 now, the legs have to go some time. Still a damn reliable fullback though.
The DMC (I was sad enough to know what that meant)is an integral part of the modern game. We obviously need it away from home and in Europe but if we don't use it in the home games as well then we are asking the players to play a different system every week. That just won't work. We played with a DMC when we set that record number of wins in the SPL, when we went to Seville and when we won the treble. It works a treat. And there's no-one at CP better at it than Lennie. Personally I'll be gutted to see him go. Telfer? Yer having a laugh mate!
Sutton - one bad game and we're showing him the door? Get a grip. If someone asked you last week who the best player in Scotland is, how many would have said "Sutty"? Let's give him a chance eh?
Thommo, however has had his day. he should never have forced our form player (Maloney) out of the starting 11. That was a terrible blunder by WGS. I've been a huge fan of Alan for years but he should go in January before he tarnishes all the good memories we have of him.
Sorry that was a bit of a rant eh? Good job there's not a character limit on this thing...
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GS Press conference
Quizzed about the MON payments G.S Says it was sonething aggreed before he came - then talks about how he was paid for a year after leaving coventry & southhampton 'And I certainly wasnt helping Harry Rednap or Gary Mc Alister'
So this kinda throws some weight behind the thinking that MON is not 'on a retainer' but that this has been a way to structure his payments due.
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BromleyBhoy, of course MON was not sacked. Did you listen to him when he was announced he was leaving? The reasons he left are unfortunately all too apparent.
Whatever you think of his abilities, please do not propagate this cloud over his name; it is patently untrue and tell that to whoever told spread this nonsense to you in the first place.
Timgreen, details about MON’s contract are not the kind of information the club will release. I cannot remember Celtic brining the contract details of any individual into the public domain and would be horrified if they done this to Martin O’Neill.
There is a line between ‘better communication’ and private information, and Martin’s terms are decidedly private information.
Again, one more time; the details released in the press may well be right, so no “denunciation” would be appropriate. Kite-flying would be to draw assumptions that this is more than it appears to be.
Welcome Shambles2.
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Paul67...
Gordon Strachan has won me over with his new-Celtic, having made tangible progress towards a establishing a fast, passing football.
You missed a word. "unsucessful".
Another test and another failure.
I agree that Hearts were excellent, but we should be better. Hearts have signed as many players, for far less cost and "gelled" immediately. It's worth remembering, John Barnes' record was better in season '99 (24 points after the same number of games). Should we really make such grandiose statements after so few games? We were toothless during the Hearts game - penned back and limited to shots from outside the box. Is this the fast flowing exciting football we can look forward to? You admit to such a paucity of chances yourself. It's back to the Tommy Burns season. We better Ooh and Ahh at the football because the goals are not there. Equally, Hearts had the lions share of the good chances on Saturday and should have scored more than they did.
I suspect we are being gulled into a false sense of security due to the catastrophic collapse of Rangers. Rangers apparent lack of usefulness is something to behold, but it should not be a plea bargain for a misfiring Celtic. "They're rubbish/We're alright" doesn't wash with me.
We can dress this up however we like, but we're not good enough.
I'm being understanding. I'm recognising that it's early days, but the signs are full of portent. We have to look at the situation with a level head and without our subjective "Celtic fan" hats on. If Celtic were called Manchester United, would the current level of performance be a source of amusement or encouragement? What of the playing staff? Is the product fit for purpose? I suggest not.
On a positive note - I'll offer the following retraction. I was wrong to say Mo Camara was the worst player I have seen in a Celtic jersey. Completely and utterly wrong. No sarcasm, no hidden insults for other players. Mo once again had a steady, if unspectacular game on Saturday. It's fair to say he's surpassed my expectations of him. Sorry Mo. It makes me happy to say it - You're alright. :-)
/p
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I think the team have now been playing together for 3 months but we still have not a settled team, we have not played the same team 3 weeks in a row. I am all for playing the players on form but, if a player like sutton on saturday, has one bad game, then you dont change them for at 2 more games considering what they have previously given.
I think it will make the team much better and more cohesive and enable them to get a better understanding of each other with a settled team but in saying this we do need a left back at least in january. Camara tries hard but not good enough. The crossing from both full backs and others on saturday was terrible.
My team:
boruc
agathe mcmanus balde camara
naka lennon petrov maloney
sutton beattie ( until zurawski is fit)
Bench:
marshall
hartson
virgo
mcgeady
lawson/gardyne
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I think it is abundantly clear that MON is being paid the money requested. Just listen to the questions from the press conference on the Celtic website. Why he is being paid this money I do not know. As Strachan said in the interview: he was being paid by Coventry up until a few months ago. I do not know whether it is common to get a payoff or remain on the wage bill when a contract is mutually terminated (or expired for that matter) in football. The £500,000 a year quoted seems a bit steep but this is the crazy world of football we are talking about.
What I do not get is why Celtic (if it was Celtic at all) tried to pin it down as a consulancy payment... it would have been better to just say: "the money was a pay-off to MON" or "it was a golden handshake given to MON for his contribution to the club which is common in todays game." Although saying this Celtic would probably be slated for it anyway. I doubt it would even be looked in to if it was a Rangers manager.
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Is the O'Neill 'payments' maybe something to do with the shareholding he has in the club?
On this subject I heard some news (allegedly from a source within the club) this weekend however I think that people should remember the obvious hurt and anxiety plastered all over Martin and Peter Lawwell at the press conference in May before speculating wildly.
I even think that the current press stories linking him with available (or soon to be so) posts is in poor taste. The man is publicly 'out of the game' until further notice.
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Historyreader - I might be missing the irony..... but is a short sharp long ball game not a contradiction??
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Sir Paul67, and Compadres,
A special Thankyou from me to You to:
OttoKaiser,Emjay,Al Obundy,Serutiku,PBTL123,Dessybhoy,
and anybody else that I have omitted.
Your mention concerning the Pan Boruc instance, was very heartening.
Always remember.......Fargo!
I am only his John The Baptist.
Also regarding the Petrov allusion.
I said that It depends on the upcoming Negos, vis a vis Mr. Petrov's Contract.
If The Beguiling Bulgar Balks(Nice? Huh!) at the terms offered........
Then we can fully expect a move.
My OPINION is that he may do.
Less money and all that!
January.........We NEED at least THREE NEW FACES.......
And that is Not MY Opinion..... That is the Wee Admiral speaking!
Spendable Funds are at a Premium!
Ergo........ Money must come from Somewhere..........
As I have said........
Opinions are like Noses.....
Everyone has One!
Let's hope that somebody's Proboscis, is not put too far out of joint on this one!
Hail! Hail!
Kojo,
And Paul........... PINKETY,PINKETY,THUMB TO THUMB....
CQN .......DELIVERS ONCE AGAIN!
RORY????????
EAT OUR GRITS!!!!!!!!!
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Shelbourne1916
I think you have to look at the names at Celtic compared to Hearts. You simply cannot walk in as a new manager and say right Thommo, Lennon & Sutton your out the 1st team for the moment until you prove yourselves to me. It's not that you're not a strong enough character or manager yourself but it would cause uproar throughout the team. I think you've basically answered your own question by saying: "but, if a player like sutton on saturday, has one bad game, then you dont change them for at 2 more games considering what they have previously given".
This is the problem Strachan is faced with - he is in a lose/lose situation when it comes to the media and some of the fans. If he were to start with Maloney on Saturday and we were bet it would be on WGS's head. People would say we should have went out with a 'robust' experienced team. If Strachan had it his way to begin with I think the team would be different but messing with players with superstar ego's (even if they don't deserve them) is a sensitive area.
I've always given Camara a chance and have always seen the potential - while I doubt he'll ever be a really good player I do think apart from his first few games he has been pretty solid and hasn't made many mistakes. His tackles seem more commited and his positioning has improved immensley...
Which leads me on to Thompson (sorry!). I could see why WGS started with Thompson, I thought he would be better than Maloney defensively and put himself about a bit. I guess you just expect that off older more experienced players and players who are not renouned for their pace or skill on the ball. However, it didn't really happen... in fact Maloney gives just as much defensively as he does going forward. He harries attackers and defenders alike and gets up and down the park, he's not afraid to put the boot in when needed. I don't think I'm the only one who thinks the many in the team play better without Thompson there but most of all I can see it in Camara. He seems to be caught between two men when Thommo plays, is this poor positional play or an attempt to cover two positions? I was a Thompson fan for his 1st 3 years but he's not been the same since Larsson left - I never did rate his passing game or strength on the ball or even his defensive abilities, but bhoy did he create a barrel load of goals! It seems even his crossing from corners lacking these days. The thing that is beginning to bug me most is the amount of times he is booked for dissent. It's got to the stage where his reputation for it is so bad the ref will be desperate to get him in the book.
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timgreen 3.18pm - why should Celtic disclose confidential contractual details just because the press think they've found another stick to club the club over the head with - no other football club does to my knowledge. Remember Kojo's big 'C' - this is a prime example. Suppose I'll have to go out clubbing now.
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Malone19,
You've hit the nail on the head re Thompson.
Not only has the man's form dipped (a big dip as it lasted most of last season as well), but he has continually berated other players (notably not Sutton, Lennon or Hartson) during matches.
If Celtic operate a zero tolerance policy for dissent throughout the youth set up, how many yellow cards for dissent does a first team regular need to pick up before getting slapped in the pocket or dropped? Thompson has more dissent yellow cards than any other Celtic player I can remember.
He is not getting any younger - he has a decision to make about the path he wants to take - before that decision is taken for him.
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Paul67,
Celtic do not have a holding midfield role. MON played Neil Lennon in this role. The phrase was coined and a lot of fans like to use this to talk tactics.
Gordon plays effectively a 4-3-2-1 formation. Neil Lennon when played, is asked to do a lot more than what MON would have asked. It is the job for a younger man. (Petrov would be perfect, with Agathe on the right).
Gordon's 3 across the middle are effectively a defensive 3 midfield. Perhaps they do not look like it at the moment, but that is where he is going with his tactics. These are very modern, and are the style of the Chelsea and Man Utd.
With regards the MON salary, it seems strange that he negotiated a settlement when he was on a one year rolling contract. Especially when he saw that one year out.
TERNAR
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Kojo et al,
delighted that the Boruc saga panned out as predicted...well done those men!
your (and their) opinions on matters Celtic are absolutely and 100% welcome...
it would be a dull place if we all agreed all of the the time...although I think that we will always agree on at least one thing...there's none better than the Celtic!
(how do you goodfellas settle an internal dispute? within reason I hope!)
if Petrov is motivated to stay then, then (a twoser?)he is of the right age, with the right ability and the right drive to build the new team around - a bird in the hand and all that...if not, then he moves on and enables further investment in new talent...
my earlier point was in response to your uncharacteristic and disparaging reference to Petrov, Thomson and Lennon as The Poseur, The Mouth and The
Square Pass Kid
all three have served Celtic well and brought a level of success and a winning mentality not seen for years. We will disagree, reasonably, reasonably (?), about Petrov's continuation. For the other two, I would say a big thank you, but time to step back (perhaps move on) and let Strachan improve the team with players that can play better in the system and style that he is developing.
That's my constructive opinion...and nobody needs to agree.
Chris
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Malone19,
The point I was trying to get across is, I think Strachan has been here long enough to pick the team he wants now! I think he needs to go with it and not change every week, barring injuries, we are strong enough to deal with anything in the SPL, so we should not have to worry about playing to limit other teams, we may need to do this in europe though.
Sutton was a bad example on my part, because I think he still has a lot to offer but, thompson should never have got back in based on maloney's form and his own form. I think strachan lacked a wee bit bottle here.
We will only see the real benefits from cohesion and playing together when players are more settled, and I think we need to do that now or soon! And yes change but, only if a player has had a couple of bad games or someone is truelly outstanding in training.
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I was reading the comments at work today but filters do not allow me to post. I have to admit to being confused about the Martin O'Neill situation and payments he's receiving.
I think Celtic are missing a guy dare I say it like Fernando Ricksen. Before you all shoot me down in flames, watch him during a game. He plays a pass and then moves forward at speed. Even if he doesn't get a return pass, someone has to trail back with creating a bit of space somewhere else. Thompson could never link up with Maloney or Nakamura in this way.
Vargasshampoo 12:04
I remember this strip vividly against Jeunnesse from Luxembourg in 1977. I pestered my parents to get me it for my Christmas that year. Alas, Santa never got it for me!
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