 Monday, October 03, 2005
Strachan faces key decision on which first team players to drop
I know it was only Livingston, but was that the sweetest football Celtic have played in years?
Beauty is in the eye on the beholder, and we were not complaining in the early years of Martin O’Neill when we efficiently seen of some of Europe’s finest. It would also be a mistake to assume that the two-touch passing game is what it is all about, if Martin O’Neill taught us anything he taught us this.
The enforced absence of Lennon and Thompson has changed the modus operandi of the midfield. There is a huge question ahead for Gordon Strachan; what happens when these two return?
Do we revert to a midfield of Lennon, Thompson, Petrov and Nakamura, or will there be a place for Maloney and Sutton? My guess is we will not see both Lennon and Thompson return as automatic first choice players. If the manager uses the same rules for dropping midfield players who perform well, as he does for defenders, neither will play against Hearts.
More comment has been made on Celtic Quick News about John Hartson than any other player. At fifteen stone he appears languid and heavy; slow to get forward and slower to get back.
Before pre-season, Strachan was advised against keeping John Hartson, though the manager insisted that he knew what Hartson could give him. In those dark few days after Bratislava a decision was made to drop Bobo Balde and I believe the position of Hartson was also under review.
Three days later, he scored a hat trick at Motherwell and demonstrated why he has been such as effective player for Celtic. There are several possible explanations as to why he was on the bench against Livingston and I think it would be premature to suggest that Gordon Strachan prefers a forward line of Beattie and Zurawski. No-one, though, is going to suggest that Hartson fits the high-tempo, total-football Strachan talks off.
Do you remember back in 1997? Of course you do, we had just lost the league for the ninth consecutive year, and our five most effective players (McStay, van Hooijdonk, Cadette, Di Canio and Thom) all left the club.
We changed from a silky, high-scoring, losing football team into a turgid, low-scoring, winning team. While Paul McStay would have fitted into either system, we would not have been able to successfully change style had the others remained in the team.
1997 was a year of bitter lessons, when only a fool or a true visionary would have been happy to remove our best players.
If you listen closely enough to what Gordon Strachan has to say the signs are there that bigger changes lie ahead. He has talked about not being sure he has the personnel to play the kind of football he wants to. As recently as Friday, he said we were a long way from being the finished article.
Since Bratislava, we have been a weekend away from a crisis, a state that I think has now passed. When he was so close to a crisis the last thing the manager could undertake was radical surgery, no matter how evidently it was needed.
If he beats Hearts to go top of the league, I don’t think Strachan will look back. Expect some interesting times.
432 Comments:
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Apologies to anyone who had trouble accessing Celtic Quick News since Friday. I have had a couple of problems which may or may not be resolved yet.
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Lennon yes, Thompson No.
Think Beattie will make way for Sutton up front.
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Was at the game on Saturday and i've i got to say the team especially Naka were a joy to watch.
Nakamura brings a range of passing and fluidity to the midfield.He moves with every pass into a position to receive the ball
back and we will score a lot more goals like the 2nd on Sat when players catch on to this movement.
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Paul
I think Gordon Strachan has to go with the same team. He has a formula that he wishes to play to - fast flowing football, that is as easy on the eye, as it is incisive against the opposition defence.
I have stated on previous occasions that the old guard has had it's day. Youth, pace, one-touch football is the future, and this is what we saw on Saturday.
This team is growing in confidence, and that will expand even further if they are picked against Hearts.
Sean & Craig being included in the Scotland squad is a confidence boost to both them and the team.
Mr. Strachan has proved that he is not afraid to make decisions (dropping Bobo after the AB game, then re-instating him after Motherwell).
Whatever team he picks will have my backing as always. We must realise however that this is only one game. The manager and the team will only be judged over the season as a whole.
Hail! Hail!
Curly
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I've been sying this for some time - WGS has some tough decisions ahead. As long as Lenny, Sutton, Thommo and Hartson are played in the same team, we won't be any different to last season. The fact that all 4 are top earners (maybe not Lenny now), also highlights that we need to get a couple off our books in January. All four have played a huge part over the last few years, but I also think that for that very reason, none will be happy to play a bit part.
The Herald said this morning that Maloney was fantastic again in midfield and they felt there was no way he could be dropped. If Beattie could learn to hold people off a bit better and win a few more flick ons, I also think it'd be difficult to include Hartson or Sutton in front of him due to his superior mobility.
Testing times are ahead for WGS, starting a week on Saturday. There's some big personalities among the four I just mentioned, and it's going to be very interesting to see who plays against a very mobile Hearts team. Can't wait for this game - I see it's already a sell out so should be a good atmosphere. Also great to see a good performance - it's a while since we gubbed a team!
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I've been sying this for some time - WGS has some tough decisions ahead. As long as Lenny, Sutton, Thommo and Hartson are played in the same team, we won't be any different to last season. The fact that all 4 are top earners (maybe not Lenny now), also highlights that we need to get a couple off our books in January. All four have played a huge part over the last few years, but I also think that for that very reason, none will be happy to play a bit part.
The Herald said this morning that Maloney was fantastic again in midfield and they felt there was no way he could be dropped. If Beattie could learn to hold people off a bit better and win a few more flick ons, I also think it'd be difficult to include Hartson or Sutton in front of him due to his superior mobility.
Testing times are ahead for WGS, starting a week on Saturday. There's some big personalities among the four I just mentioned, and it's going to be very interesting to see who plays against a very mobile Hearts team. Can't wait for this game - I see it's already a sell out so should be a good atmosphere. Also great to see a good performance - it's a while since we gubbed a team!
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Look at every position individually and I think Lennon comes back in, providing you feel a defensive midfielder is necessary, against Hearts. He is the best holding midfielder at the club and capable of contributing as link up man in the passing game.
He replaces Sutton in midfield for me and Sutton replaces Beattie up front, for an hour then let Beattie loose on them. He's still young and not yet the first choice striker.
Thompson does not come back in simply because others are playing his position better than he is at present.
Hartson will have to bide his time.
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it is interesting that m.o'neill's strategy was to buy strong players who could outmuscle the opposition,while g.strachan seems to prefer speed and mobility,in fact a reversion to a more'celtic'way of playing the game.
p.s when did the term'hun'for the t.f.o.d first become commonplace?
i take it it has its'origins in the first world war,or was it in use before then?
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I feel particular care has to be taken re: the midfield, we MUST strike that fine balance between fluid fast flowing football and the need to dig in when required.
This is where i believe a Roy Keane type (if not him) is needed, someone who can combine both. IMHO this is a must if we are to progress. I for one am very impressed with WGS meticulous approach to the game and feel he will get us there.
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Refrain:
Walk with me, oh my Lord,
Through the darkest night and brightest day.
Be at my side, oh Lord,
Hold my hand and guide me on my way.
Sometimes the road seems long,
My energy is spent.
Then, Lord, I think of you
And I am given strength.
Refrain
tones often bar my path
And there are times I fall,
But you are always there
To help me when I call.
Refrain
Just as you calmed the wind
And walked upon the sea,
Conquer, my living Lord,
The storms that threaten me.
Refrain
Help me to pierce the mists
That cloud my heart and mind,
So that I shall not fear
The steepest mountain-side.
Refrain
As once you helped the lame
And gave sight to the blind,
Help me when I'm downcast
To hold my head high
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I will refrain from using the 'work in progress' tag. It makes us sound like a building site! WGS has stated that we are far from the finished article. Of course that is the case, but we have to be pleased with where we are right now and the advancements made since the 1st two fixtures of the season. What we have now is a decent squad and I don't want to tempt fate at all, but is there any single individual in there now who could be regarded as truly indispensable, like a Henke or a Bellamy. No bad thing either.
Incidentally, is there such a thing in football as 'the finished article'? Surely every team(even the likes of Chelsea)is constantly looking at ways(and players)to improve what they already have. To have the train of thought of being a finished article would surely be resting on one's laurels, an accusation which could be flung at Celtic boards of the past.
Might I also add that I am delighted to be proved wrong in recent weeks with my belief that Shaun and Naka could not be accomodated in the same starting XI. Fantastic.
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Things are certainly looking rosy at the moment. I'm glad my initial faith in Strachan is being backed up by the performances of his team on the park and the professionalism of the man himself off the park. Let's not get too carried away though as we are always only 2 games away from a "crisis".
Is anyone else gutted that the international break has arrived when it has? If we could have met Hearts this weekend, then we would have been certainties to beat them convincingly. They are stuttering after a couple of dodgy results, whereas we are flying.
And the good thing is, we are still in the early stages of getting to where Strachan wants us. Gord only knows what this team will be like when we complete the journey.
The biggest plus for me this season so far is the form of the home grown bhoys. Long may it continue. Nothing cheers me more than to see one of our own living the dream.
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After the European disaster it takes a lot to admit, but WGS is starting to make a difference. The thought process is similar to Tommy Burns, lets hope WGS gets more luck in the big games and support from the Boardroom than Tommy received....A couple of fullbacks and the signings of both Keanes in January could raise us to a new level. Still one game from disaster, at the moment. Well done Celtic
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A good and comprehensive win played with style and fluidity.
After the stuttering early start it is the best we can ask for right now.
However clearly we can HOPE for much more if as you suggest Paul that WGS will make more radical change as time moves on.
The Hearts game will only be one more game in this period of transition and regardless of the result we must be as patient as we can.
To me the most interesting comment from WGS was that he believed teams with inferior players will always try to play the game as if it were a cup tie to try and even the differential in skill and he went on to say that our game plan was to stop the other team doing that and turning it in to a cup tie style.
It seems so simple and yet so right - by allowing teams to play us high up the pitch in a 100mph back to front kick and run style we lose our advantage.
With every passing game I see more evidence that he is instilling in the players a different way of thinking - almost a credo of "prevention is better than cure"
it will be very interesting to see how we tackle Hearts because if we control the game from minute 1 as we did at Almondvale then their attempts to play a cup tie will be pushed aside and I'm not sure they can play any other way.
Once we have that control they will struggle to keep us at bay for 90 minutes particularly at CP
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hi paul, fellow celts....
great result on saturday. so glad i have you guys writing (almost) minute by minute updates during the games, it's the only way i get to know what's going on if the celtic game isn't chosen by setanta. is it true the game vs hearts isn't going to shown live???
can you imagine the torture of it all, knowing that the family milkman is sitting in my seat in north stand upper, section 403, every other week. still, he'll be doing his rounds on frosty mornings soon so maybe i shouldn't feel too hard done by when i'm lying on the sun deck of the dive boat every day....
just wanted to ask, does anyone know of any websites that perhaps show the footage from games? there was one posted on here a while ago which showed the goals (i remember catching the pre-season goals on it) but i can't remember what site it was.
does anyone have a dvd recorder for recording the games? i'm so desperate i'd pay someone to send them out to me, even if it did mean watching them a month later!!
anyway, that aside. another fine post paul, agree with it 100%
really wishing there wasn't the break next week before the hearts game. that always seems to happen to us, just when we seem to peak..!!
i reckon if we do a job on hearts then we could go on a very significant run of results.
well, if anyone can help me with my plight i'd be eternally greatful.
hail, hail to you all.
alan, in paradise but not THE Paradise......
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I only saw the highlights of the game on Setanta on Sunday but we did look very impressive. The players also seemed to by playing with the metaphorical "smile on their faces" which is a big plus from last season when a lot of players didn't look like they were enjoying themselves.
As for the Hearts game I can see Lenny coming straight back into the side with Stan pushed forward and Sutton moved up front with Zurawski. Naka and Shaun should also keep their places. This would mean Hartson, Beattie and Thommo all on the bench.
Difficult decisions there for Gordon but, of course, the upcoming international matches could make the decisions for him.
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1:10 PM alan in thailand
baba posted this website yesterday showing the goals -
http://media.putfile.com/LIVINGSTONVCELTIC_000170/wide
Hail! Hail!
Curly
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It has been a fair while since 3any celtic fan had more than 4 domestic games that they were truly concerned / interested in, in a critical to the season kinda way. Normally we have 4, 6-pointer games in a season, this term we have 12, two have already been played, whoever comes out 1st, 2nd, 3rd in these wi2ll do the same in the league.
Paul as a side note, we have often needed to understand the financial "AHEM" management of Murray etc in our to compare with our own, now we are at at war on two fronts can we have a profile of hearts in particular relating to
(i) the new owner - his means, intentions, sustainability
(ii) the manager - his relationship with the owner and the players the owner has selected, his longterm plans
(iii) the squad - aren't quite a few of them only there till jan
Cheers BB
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Try PP Live for the games, Asian website, I watched the Sunderland V West Ham game on it on Saturday afternoon. If the game is going out Live in Japan then it will be on one of the PP Live Channels
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Paul67
What about celtic at home to Lyon in the Champions League? Surely that was an acomplished and stylyish performance - and against a decent side.
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Alan in Thailand
Another option for the Livi goals
http://s40.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0C9LP5S2KCGWB3DCGT0G8SY2KF
good coverage here
Full match can also be downloaded from the Mininova site
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The're is a Prog lister here too... like a TV guide. Dont bother with the commentry though, unless you can speak Japanese, Chinease, Vitnamese, or whatever other Asian network that decides to screen it! There is some other football on occasionally with English commentry.. normally the Yanks going feel! It even has ESPN on it, :-D
I have sat with the radio on and the game is less than a minute delayed notmally. Its like one big instant replay.
Worth a download if you have the patience. (And dont like setanta anymore)
http://www5.pplive.com/english/
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Alan in Thailand
www.asiaplate.com
is a good site for to get games on the net.
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You called it BLANTYREKEV:
Lennon in for Sutton and Sutton to replace Beattie!
The style off play we are developing, leaves no room for players who can not play at a high tempo.
In the short term Sutton i feel will replace BBJ which may see the big Welshman move out in the January window.
Chris Sutton is in the last year off his contract he will most likely leave in the summer.
WGS will go with Magic partnered by Sutton and or Beattie,for the rest off the season.
Roy Keane will join in January,as will other players off pace and or presence.
Where does this leave Alan Thomson.If my guess is correct he will be the one sacrificed for RK.
Paul67.
How right you are .Paul Mcstay would have slotted into any formation you care to mention!
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Good article Paul. I think we shouldn't get carried away yet. If we beat Hearts then we are well on our way to the league.
If we can follow that up with wins all through November then I'll certainly have a happy Christmas and New Year.
However, as I watched the Falkirk/Hearts game yesterday a thought struck me. In the face of adversity, against a lower team, we would still expect at least a draw from the game. Despite being a goal and a man down. I thought Hearts had buckled, but ultimately they got their draw.
I think they are serious contenders. If their squad is up to it, they will be there or thereabouts. If we beat them in a fortnight it will be a good measure of how far we have come.
Hopefully we can get all our guys back from National duties having achieved the results they need and perhaps scored a goal or two.
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Nice to see everybody in a positive mood after Saturday.
Paul makes a very good point with comparison to the 96/97 team. We need to make sure that we are a team of winners. There will be times when it is ugly that we must win. WGS needs to make sure that while he has been brave to drop Hartson he must also change when the gluepots of winter may prohibit the style of play that he wants to do.
I don't think that the way WGS wants us to play precludes anybody from selection but they have to be playing well. BBJ looked good against Motherwell and then the Artmedia home, and while he'll never win a sprint,just now he is being barged off the ball by players that he would have swatted aside early last year. On form he will always score goals but he more than most cannot be a yard off his pace.
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How many players do we have away this week.Eight is it.
Fingers crossed Ghuys,no injuries please.
When these games come up i can't help thinking off John Kennedy and the injury he sustained.
He'll be back though!
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Good call AL1888.
Belfast Bhoy, apart from the public pronouncements of Vlad, I have no other info on the plans for Hearts. It is interesting that he has stated publicly that he is here to make money. Can you imagine the wailing and gnashing that would go on around these parts if something similar was said?
TheMadMurph, I totally agree about Hearts.
Coming back to save a point from two goals down with ten men away from home is a result that will inspire them with confidence – quite rightly so.
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Hi Paul,
Dontbratbackinanger 12.27 :- That's a question that has always puzzled me as well, and I've seen it asked on some Rangers sites, one of the puzzles being that as late as the 70s it was a term used by Rangers fans for Celtic fans, (again without knowing the origins) if anyone has the definitive answer I'd love to hear it
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can someone spell out this pplive stuff for me? i have downloaded the player but am unsure how to use it. if i right click the icon in the bottom right hand corner it shows "channel list" which is some sort of menu - eg soccer, movies etc. if i then tick soccer and then double click the icon it fires up windows media player and then shows a game (eg barcelona). this is fine , but how do you select the game you want to watch - in our case the celtic game. there does also appear to be a program guide on the pplive website but this is in chinese.
thanks in addvance
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Paul and fellow Tims,
It's great to feel happy with the way your team is playing, isn't it? But it was only Livingston, remember. Seen the goals. Couple of real crackers, coming from flowing football.
I thnik we still need Lennon (which saddens me, to be honest) to shore up the defence for the visit of the likes of Hearts. I hope Sutton moves forward and Beattie drops down. He should let loose for the last 30 minutes or so. I can't see Hrtson getting a game until winter sets in. He can't contribute to the flowing football Strachan is seeking to employ. Are we to become the new Ajax? If we are half as good as some of their teams, I'll be delighted.
I see some are still calling for Keane and his namesake from Spurs. Here's hoping we go for neither. Robbie can't even get a game at Spurs. Zurawaski is a lot better. If we have money available for the manager come January, here's hoping he uses it to bring CLASS and not clapped out has beens.
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Lets be honest here guys, the Livingston defending on Saturday was shambolic. No way will the Hearts defence give us the same space and time, so lets not go off on one thinking we will do to Hearts what we done to Livingston. Having said that I would not bet against us, we have the momentum, the confidence, the strength in depth, it’s a home game, their goalie is suspended and so on. Lennon for Sutton and Sutton for Beattie is so obviously the right thing to do that surely it wont happen. One things for sure, the subs against Hearts will be just as interesting as the team that runs out on to the park, and hopefully just as potent.
NB Tom64, without meaning to be offensive in anyway, what was the thinking behind your 12.38 posting?
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Edwardursu:
My first recollection was Billies",and "Dans"s,Going back a bit now!
Did the term huns not come about through a Yule Brynner film at about that time re Gengis Khan,who either led or fought against the "huns".
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Looking forward to watching the game again on Celtic TV tonight. I think I counted 14 passes for the 2nd goal? I may be wrong but you are right Paul, it was VERY sweet!
Sour note though was the signing from some of the fans. From Ardrossan I believe guys? We are a club open to all. NOT only Catholics.
SB
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My best friend is a board member off a non catholic church.
He also has held a season ticket for the main stand for seventeen years and will not be chased away by Eejits . I squirm in my seat when i hear some off the refrains,although it's miles better than it used to be.
We've all got to stand together on this issue before it spreads again and besmirches the reputation, our fans have rightly achieved in recent times.
JonG
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Did any of you notice Sutton’s lack-lustre performance in the pre-match warm up on Saturday? He was at the back of his group and didn't remotely participate in what the others were doing. He is a man who is clearly unhappy with the new training regime. He even broke ranks (along with Hartson) when they upped the tempo (where they jump up and down and clash chests of each other before sprinting off)instead he went to the far corner of the penalty box and carried out stretching exercises. This reeked of contempt. What are the Celtic management going to do about this?
With that said I thought Sutton still had a very good game, he still seems focused on the park and put in a good shift, however, his petulance during training sessions must end now.
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john g-john wayne played genghis khan in a biopic.
probably one of the few historical characters whose politics didn't offend the'duke'
i have also heard the terms'cossacks'and'prussians'for the poor,misguided souls who have fallen under the spell of minas morgul
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I believe the term 'Huns' was applied to Rangers fans after a newpaper journalist associated their rampaging behaviour with the forays of Attila some centuries before. (The game escapes me - not sure if it was ECWC 1972 in Barca or some pre season friendly in England around the same time)
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Re overseas fans in far flung corners, what about subscribing to the Celtic Live channel? The games are shown live with Celtic minded commentary, instead of Joke Broon and Hately. You get some pre game build up and emails from Celtic fans around the world. And the subscription goes to Celtic.
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WGS Drops Hartson why?. BBJ as we all know has his personal problems at the moment and thats they way they should stay. Has the situation however influenced WGS ie mind on the job.
WGS dropped Bobo and he came back better and more hungrier. Dont be surprised to see BBJ back in the starting line up against the jambos. Lenny will also imo be back in the team
which brings up the question who will make way for these two. Even thompson will be in the frame that is imo a harder one to call.
WGS will have to take into account what happens over the next ten days re the internationals, injuries and tiredness may play a pat in his final team selection.
I think the team will be not far off
Boruc
telfer
balde
macmanus
camara
lennon
petrov
maloney/nakamura
sutton/thompson
Hartson
zura.
Another area that will be on wgs mind is virgo and du wei, at some point imo he will want to introduce both of them to the team on a more regular basis possibily nearer to xmas.
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We played some lovely stuff at Livi on Saturday. Nakamura and Maloney liberated to play by the graft of Sutton and Petrov.
I just can't see Hartson, Lennon & Thompson all being brought back for Hearts. Indeed, only Lennon I think will be returned - with Beattie being the sacraficial lamb.
Sutton will be paired up-front with Magic (the best option IMO).
Although seeemingly solid on Saturday I still urge caution over our full-backs. Camara had his best game for celtic purely because of Livi's lack of threat - he had the space and time to go wandering and not be punished. It won't be the same against Hearts. Also, if WGS is serious about a high tempo side, he should return Agathe at the expense of Telfer (although I think Telfer will remain unless Didier signs a new deal which looks unlikely).
For Saturday week:
Boruc
Agathe Balde McManus Camara
Nakamura Lennon Petrov Maloney
Sutton Zurawski
Telfer will retain his berth but that would be my shout.
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I can't see QGS dropping Maloney considering his performences this season; he finds passes others simply would not be able to make, doesn't waste many balls, has an excellent cross and can play in a patient build-up and instantly switch to a more direct aproach. I agree that Sutton should move in for Beattie but for some reason doubt this will happen (possibly Hartson for Beattie). Sutton, although still not the fastest player on the planet, is IMO more intelligent than Hartson on the ball as well as being more mobile his ability on the ball is better and is also strong and good in the air like Hartson. Sutton can play the type of football Strachan seems to want as well as adding a bit of muscle to the team.
Agree also with the comments about needing a midfield who can battle if needed. I think Lennon is an excellent 'battler' but not great in an attacking sense. Keane would be an improvement but he'd be 35, seems to be riddled with injury and is on MEGA wages. I still think Petrov is ideal for Lennons role but then would that be wasting some of his attacking flair?
P.S Don't slag Ghengus... apparently a 6th of us could be his descendants, talk about getting around!
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You know JAMES you could be right here.
The reference to the fans running on the pitch in 1972 rings a bell.Although its very far away.
Dontbrattbackinanger.
Got to say there are not too many Cossacks down where i live.Although i've seen a few dodgy hats all the same.
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Gavil Guy,
The Celtic Live channel is a bad joke.
Using a full T1 (1.544MBps) all to my self, I see a green & white blob passing to green & white blob.
I am not alone in seeing such a low standard of viewing.
I can only assume that the Celtic server capability is far below the standard required for a large world-wide audience.
HF
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if bob crampsey still does his'now you know'column in the evening times he may be able to shed some light on the origins of hunnery.
one of the sequelae of their behaviour in barcelona in 1972 was that the'greatest living ranger'was presented with the trophy in the dressing room toilet,rather than in the stadium itself.
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TeddyBear,
perhaps the 'h' word should be consigned to the past...
...however,
my best objective understanding was that the hun sobriquet came about after yer fellow bears gained a well-deserved reputation for causing mayhem and violence wherever they traveled during the 1960's and 1970's. Europe and England. In friendly or competition. English hack eventually likened this habitual behaviour to carnage not seen since the hun rampaged through Europe. Not sure if he referred to the hun of recent world wars or the older, more hands-on version. Luckily, but still sadly, the modern day blazered cohort in Milan were restrained to singing.
Chris
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On the matter of the term for Rangers fans, James is correct. It was an English local newspaper in the inter-war period.
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PBTL123 @ 2:38
A guy on the previous thread asked for the full wording.
I would guess that it's a hymn..not sure really..being a consigned to eternal darkness atheist myself.
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Paul,
Another very good article. I've only seen the goals on the internet as I don't have access to Setanta but you guys keep me well informed.
I think you are especialy right in saying wee Gordon has refrained from radical surgery. He tried that in Bratislava and we only leaked more goals.
He has slowly been building up team confidence, introducing his style of play and that is making a difference. You get the feeling everyone wants to play in the team whereas last year some players thought it their divine right to be in the team.
Yes I think Lenny in for CB but barring injuries I don't see any other changes.
Thought I was going to miss the Hearts game due to business commitments but managed to get back into London early on 15th, mad dash to the motor change airports and get into Glasgow for about midday so don't go changing anything for Gawd's sake.
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Hi Paul,
Thanks everyone for the answers, I normally confine myself to football matters but thought a words origin would be safe enough and so it has proved.
Tom64 3.41 :- nice to know I'm not the only one on the site :) Though as T Pratchet has often pointed out it does leave us a bit short on curse words :)
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I was told by my grandfather that the term was coined by Scottish football fans in general when during the great war many of the Rangers players were exempted conscription by being appointed to jobs on the docks and shipyards while other teams had players sent to the front line. "And if yer no wi' us, yer agin' us" he'd say. Who knows.
Edward, I would term you a blue-nose incidentally. ;)
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Paul,
With the talk of RK coming?? and if WGS wants him do you think he will have to offload some big earners to compensate RK's wages i.e sell BOBO or BBJ or god forbid STAN.
Thx to all the guys who put on links to the goals couldnt make on sat as i had to work and there is no radio so had keep up with the game by phoning home.
Lets hope all our BHOYS return safe and well and whatever team the wee man puts out we should get right behind
Does anyone know if it is gonnae be the same idea for the training day as the last time as my bhoy thought it was crap the last time cause only paul lambert came back out later to sign autographs ???Got my tickets for it anyway for me and the 2 bhoys
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Half_Fool 3:11
Your comment is seriously flawed.
Your 1.5 meg only exists between your ISP and your desktop. The problem is the size of the connection into your ISP from the outside internet. If the ISP only has a 1Gbyte connection to the net, and there are one hundred Celtic supporters on that ISP trying to get the feed, the ISP's bandwith is used up. It would be more succinct to say that your ISP's capability is far below standard required for a large world wide audience. Good news for the ISP's is that it is easy to blame the content providers. Of course the only content providers who get the blame are the ones who have a high demand for their product on an isp-wide basis.
SB
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Been a few comments today about likelihood of CB making way on the front line to allow Sutty to partner Majiec at the Hearts game and then come on with half an hour to go or so.
What about the other way round and have CB run them ragged (drain them mentally and physically) before sending Sutty on for the final 30 minutes.
Being an astute and intelligent player he could make passes and flicks for the rest and more importantly make them count against a Hearts back line that has been dragged all over CP for the previous hour.
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Paul67
I spent ages typing a post and it hasn't appeared,so your problems may still persist.
My apologies if it appears later on as some kind of duplicate post to this one.
Your post has generated several thoughts in my mind.
MON had us playing attractive winning football against much, much better sides.
Juve and Lyon spring to mind.
If we had been 6 points behind Rangers instead of Hearts then many more would be calling for Mr Strachans head.
Rangers look like qualifying from there CL group with a very average side.
Rangers demise domestically is what is keeping the moral up amongst the Celtic support.
If they qualify from there group and turn us over in the league ,then the whole climate will change.
Likewise if they fail, Eck will be on the dole by XMAS.
Mr Strachan inherited some very good players.He has spent approx £7million. I would expect a huge gulf between us and Livi.
Mr Strachan is not some kind of total football messiah.
Tommy Burns had a far better Celtic side and had to compete against a far better Rangers side.
He advocated ( as did John Barnes)the passing game.
Ask yourself Pierre or Beattie?
Cadette or Majic?
Di Canio or Maloney?
McStay or Naka?
Thom or McGeady?
Based on footballing ability, most would lump for the Tommy Burns option.
I am not advocating Tommy Burns for manager.
I am just sick of the people who seem to have forgotten what MON achieved so very quickly.
Although it is not being said outright, he is being labelled as some kind of footballing neanderthal.
I have heard all this total football nonsense before.
It has brought us nothing in the modern game.
On that front it has brought Hungary nothing in the modern game. ( food for though, for Fargo and his in the know friends)
People keep talking about Dutch football.
It's a long time since a Dutch team won anything major.
They don't win the major tropies regularly.
Real Madrid apart ,the teams that are defensively well organised ,win most of the major european honours.
Yes there are exceptions to the rule.
Lisbon ,and Barcelona spring to mind in a British context.
Mr Strachan can win me over by winning the League and competeing in the CL.
Until then, i like him agree that we have a long way to go.
What will impress me, is if he can get us to where all of us would want Celtic to be,on what is left of a now shoestring budget.
Sutton should compete with BBJ for one CF spot.
Majic with Beattie for the other.
Lennon and Petrov should play almost every week,providing they are fit and there form does not dip for a long period of time.
Naka ,Maloney,McGeady and Thomson ,should compete for the remaining midfield spots.
Bobo should play most weeks with Varga ,Du wie,Mcmanus,and fat boy slim competeing for the other slot.
Agathe ,should compete with Telfer for RB ,and the other midfield options.
Camara has very little competition, which is something we need to address.
Boruc before Marshall.
Atleast two quality full backs must be aquired to replace Telfer,Camara and Agathe as they are not quality full backs.
I have watched Virgo again in the reserves, he has looked awfull every time i've seen him .
Mr Strachan is also seems unsure about Du wei.At this point in time we do not have a quality CH to partner Bobo.
McManus is doing very well for the moment.
Lots to solve,lots of it by his own making, having spent a lot of money we still haven't solved the weak areas that we had in the summer apart from the goalkeeper.
(if he signs)
Maloney and Beattie have surpassed most peoples expectations.
Naka and Majic have shown promise.
We must win the league, anything else will constitue failure.
Talk of total football is cheap,winning on the big stage is what counts.
If Mr Strachan can bring that to Celtic park, as MON did ,and with total football being played, then i will thank him for eternity.
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Paul67,
I found this interesting piece, on JohnBhoy's excellent Blog.
It appeared there, in a reply to John's summation of the recent Falkirk game.
It was submitted by the industrious, Miss Pennypacker!
With your anticipated approval, I will offer an excerpt from that piece.
"I am informed by an unimpeachable source.....that a certain Celtic Performer,whose name happens to rhyme with, Button........
is a very Fiery Nettle in the Garden of Mr. Strachan.
A Caviler and a Quibbler of the First Water is he of the soubriquet,Button.
Not Good!
His future in the Garden of Paradise, will become shorn, around the time that Janus will Gaze and Gaze.
Farrago.
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Thanks to all the Lhads for the game comments, great job, can't wait to see the game (Wed or Thur - Gag).
EdwardUrsu - Re: Huns, your less well behaved colleagues have been Huns as long as I remember, and that pre-dates the riots and mayhem of Barcelona, QPR, Chelsea and other less exotic parts of Eng-er-land.
I remember one occasion when a Rangers sympathiser from Bangor N.I. referred to me as a "Hun" (he didn't know why)and was astonished when he got re-educated, he couldn't believe that the Celtic support actually look DOWN on our fellow Scots/En-ger-land wannabe's, and despise their behaviour.
Hopefully peepul (sorry) like yourself and our other friend at Broxibears can change things down Ibrox way, (might take a century or two).
Read the Hearts match report, see that Pressley received a "dead leg" then scored two goals and is now doubtfull for Scotlands WC games, who does he think he is - Barry FergusHun.
Up the TIC!
Oregonbhoy
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EYBHOY68, I am assured that Stan is not for sale. As for the rest, if they do not fit in the managers plans I would expect him to want to move them on. I have no info whatsoever on the Man Utd player.
TT, thanks for the note on the trouble you had posting. We also note your reluctance regarding "Mr Strachan", however, we are pleased you no longer site personal reasons for this, and are expressing a purely objective opinion.
Welcome Farrago, always good to hear from a new acquaintance. I have also heard of ‘trouble at ‘mill’ as the English stereotype might say.
Suffer truculence at your peril, before you know it there will be a mutiny, no matter what your rank Admiral.
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imo the starting 11 against Livi deserve the chance to play against Hearts if they all come through the internationals. It might only have been Livi but I have watched the match on Channel 67 and they played some excellent football, they need to be given the chance to show it was their football and not the inferior opposition.We look a much better balanced side without Lennon and Hartson, these players still have a role but maybe it is coming on from the bench if things aren't going to plan.
I wasn't sure about Gordons appointment and certainly never liked the Camera signing but I am big enough to admit that both are starting to excell in their roles.
Onwards and upwards
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I see on the official club website MC makes a staement to the media that it is great to "Rangers Celtic and Hearts" competing for the league.IMO our players should be told that Celtic are not second to Rangers in some sort of pecking order, and when talking about leagues always mention Celtic first. This may have been an unconscious error by MC but I see it often repeated on TV Radio and in the papers when I used to buy them, so IMO sends out a subliminal message that we are second to them.Never have been ,never will be.
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To go back to the article at the top I fail to see how Jorge Cadete would have been a worse option than Brattbakk/Jackson in any team.
Well done the Bhoys on Saturday ,and how did those generous bookies manage to price McManus at 33/1 for the first goal after hitting the bar in his previous 2 games?
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tinytim there is very much indeed to commend your post the vast majority of which I agreed with.
I think it is far too early to talk of anything yet, especially as we had in the last two home games to go extra time against Falkirk and having to take the ball into the corner against ICT in the last few minutes to waste time. Yes we created plenty of chances against these teams but the point is we only won by the narrowest of margins against teams we should be able to have little difficulty with.
We played very well at the start against Hibs but struggled to hold on to the win at the end.
Really good teams would play and score all of them off the park.
Yes I am totally delighted about these wins but we can’t talk of total football. I am always happy to see us win any game, the more so trophies, as in the 46 years I have been a Celt we have lost more trophies than we have won and that is what makes me a very greedy Celtic supporter.
I am happy only with victory, the more we win the happier I am because I remember the losing, I remember the losing esp. to Rangers and how it hurt, that is what makes the winning all the sweeter. As yet this season we have won nothing.
What gets to me is we should have put Rangers to bed a long time ago we have let the `poorest’ Rangers team in my memory off far too often. We have let an incapable manager and culpable chairman off the hook.
tinytim I am sad to say that that I have watched football for the last 41 years and can still say I don’t fully understand it, perhaps that is one of the reason I am still in love with the game.
Johan Cruyff said there were only three people in the world who he would talk to about total football one being a fellow Dutchman and former Celtic manager, I am disapointed to say I am not one of the other two.
What I will say though is that while Dutch teams have won very little in the recent past their players still command first team football in the best teams in the world.
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Maybe a tad childish, but why is stan promoting his book in the s***** m***. Do these players have no shame, or is money their only concern!
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Tiny Tim - Feyenoord won the UEFA cup in 2002, not long ago.
With regards to your point about MON, it´s not so much not appreciating what he did but that there is a need to shed our skin, because we have suffered a lot in recent times.
However I think that anything Strachan achieves will be on the back of what MON built. O´Neill put Celtic back up where they belong.
I´m sure that most Celtic fans would choose McStay over Naka at this stage. McStay is in the best eleven of all time!!
With regards to the others the jury is out. The only thing I would say is that, thanks to MON, nowadays Celtic are able to hold onto their players for longer, so I expect Beattie and Maloney will stay at the club longer than Cadette or Di Canio. Not that long ago the club couldn´t hold onto the likes of Pierre or Viduka, thankfully that is no longer the case.
On another note just to say that Larsson has been playing his part in the Barcelona side these last days coming on in second half. Maybe the reason he doesn´t play more is because he is not signed up to Nike or Adidas and there is no room for another like Ronaldhino. The Barcelona fans love him. He was out of half of last season, injured when he was taken off during the Barça - Real Madrid match. He was taken off after having played no small part in his side being 3-0 up at the time , he had passed the acid test in the big game in Spain. Larsson´s success, like that of Bellamy and Henri Camara is important for Celtic. They left the club on relatively good terms and that has not always been the case. Even Juninho didn´t go ballistic when he left and he was a world cup winner. Hopefully NO ONE is bigger than Celtic now.
Strachan has the conditions to make a success of it. MON has set the foundations and raised the expectations. Strachan has the credentials and as an ex-Hibbee he has another extra motivation to get the better of Hearts.
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one of the strengths of any manager must be the ability to match the style of play to the personnel available,which is probably the main reason that greece won euro2004.
if injury hadn't robbed wim janssen of paul mcstay we would have had the chance to see him play with henke in 1997-8 and the league that year may have been won with more flair,although i seem to recall it still felt pretty good to end the misery of the previous years
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Totally agree dessybhoy. It has to be Celtic and Rangers. It should trip off the tongue in a natural order, like Lennon and McCartney.
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Tinytim...
I agree with everything you have written.
The time to pronounce even progress is being made is some far way off.
My assertation is - so far this season, every seroius challenge has produced failure. Artmedia & Rangers. Enough said. I'm prepared to go down the road of not speaking ill of the manager, and giving him time, but like you I'm against this revisionist history of Celtic under Martin O'Neill.
Paul67...
I know it was only Livingston, but was that the sweetest football Celtic have played in years?
Well, since last season anyway -
12-03-2005 (Home) Celtic 6 Dumfermline 0. As convincing a demolition job as you will see.
13-04-2005 (Away) Celtic 4 Livingston 0. Not bad for a team that had supposedly collapsed.
Or, going back a little (in the same season)
21-09-2004 (Home) Celtic 8 Falkirk 0.
More comment has been made on Celtic Quick News about John Hartson than any other player. At fifteen stone he appears languid and heavy; slow to get forward and slower to get back.
Surely not the same John Hartson that was reborn under Gordon Strachans' super soaraway training regimen? Sorry for the sarcasm, but when Magic has offered as much as Hartson then it might be time for talk of selling him. I'm not a fan of Hartson per se, but considering his contributions there is a long way to go before we should think of selling him.
He has talked about not being sure he has the personnel to play the kind of football he wants to. As recently as Friday, he said we were a long way from being the finished article.
I've asked this question before, but I'll ask it again. How much money should we throw at our manager? We were the 8th highest spenders in Europe. How far can too far go? (To paraphrase The Cramps) If spending enough to get us into such exhalted company as the top 10 is not enough then I fear for our club. For this sum I would have expected a lot more than we have recieved given the (supposedly) temporary nature of Camara and Telfer.
I was pleasantly surprised with the performance. Yes it was good. Yes it is encouraging, but it is nothing more than that. And denigrating the achievements of Martin O'Neill to justify the new manager is distastful. This is the time for strong stomachs and level heads. Getting carried away is as bad as remaining unremittingly negative.
/p
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Cant believe radio clyde have the guy who insulted Jock Stein on, promoting HIS book. What a total DISGRACE!!!Why now?
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Interesting posts about the term "Hun".During my childhood it was used disparagingly by all supporters towards the opposition.Cries of "go home ya Huns" were the norm against the vanquished.
I can remember that but my memory is hazy as to when it became unique to the Huns.
As to whether or not it is offensive-I know some who actually refer to themselves as such.
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barry ferguson struggling to make the scotland game?
you would never have guessed it!!
bet he's fit for the next tfod game!
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p8ddy,
I am afraid that I must shine the light of common sense on your last submission.
We are not living in the Past.
That is an exercise in futility.
I am surprised that you did not throw the redoubtable Mr. Maley into the mix.
It has been said elswhere that we all Stand on the Shoulders of Giants.
So what else is new?
But to base a whole argument against the present Celtic Managerial Incumbant, predicated on the past successes of a Celtic Manager is in a word...Specious.
Admiral Strachan's team is a horse of a different color.
You are comparing apples with the
proverbial.
I say to you, my friend.......
It is time that you stopped this dangerous type of "looking only in the rear mirror" driving.
We are now firmly ensconced in the Present.
Old dogs and Children and Water Mellon Wine is not for us......at least not yet!
If you do not approve of Admiral Strachan, by all means that is your right.
However, please make a more constructive and cogent argument against his abilities.
The floor is now yours.
Let us hear your doubts explained concerning his ability to deliver the goods.
But this time do not use any past comparisons...... it is so tiresome and rediculous.
Kojo.
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tinytim
I think you are forgetting about some aspects of MON's reign also.He also benefited from a Rangers team unravelling before his eyes and made the most of it.If WGS is able to do the same this season what is the problem?
MON also spent a lot of money during his time at Celtic.Where was the gulf in quality between us and the also rans last season?And where had the flowing football that you spoke of against Juventus and Lyon gone? Please don't tell me that he needed more money as WGS has spent roughly a quarter of what MON got in his first year or so.He may have inherited quality players but how many of these are the right side of thirty that you could build a side around for two or three years?
As for the Tommy Burns era,the passing of time certainly does dull the memory it seems.On what basis were TB's teams better than the one WGS is trying to put together?How can you even begin to compare the two?His teams provided me with some of the best attacking football I've ever seen at times,but for me the biggest difference between TB and WGS is that WGS understands the defensive side of the game so much more and realises it's importance.With centre-halves like Mackay,Hughes and O'Neill I'm not sure TB did.And for those who question Camara's ability don't forget Stuart Gray played at left-back for Celtic under TB.
WGS is trying to instill a passing philosophy into the players,not a total football concept.This term is too readily used by those who don't understand it's meaning.Listen to his after-match comments from Saturday.He says that performance was closer to what he is looking for going forward.He knows that we need to improve defensively as a team but you can't change everything at once.
As for your comments about if things were different he could be out of a job,well,things aren't different are they? The reality of our current situation is that we are six points clear of Rangers and can go top if we beat Hearts in two weeks time.Maybe Rangers will make the second phase of the CL and beat us at CP in the League and CIS Cup and everything will be different for Strachan but until that time comes I won't be losing any sleep over it.
Given our start to the season,I would have thought that the opportunity to hit the top of the table in mid-October with a six-point gap over Rangers would have been grasped with both hands by most of us.
Yes talk is cheap and results when it really matters are what it is all about,but that talk is not coming from WGS.We will all be able to judge him and his team when the big games have been played and we see what trophies or otherwise we have won.Until that time comes I suggest we all reserve judgment in where his side will appear in the Celtic history books.
BankieBhoy
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Rintimtim 6.08
I hadn't forgotten that Feyenoord had won the UEFA cup.
I revelled at Pierre's two free kicks that knocked out Rangers on there way to beating a 10 Man Borussia Dortmund at home in the final.(infact did they not go down to 9 men?)
I was pointing out that the beautiful game is not dominated by teams playing so called total football.
MON deserves more credit that he has been given on this site.
As does BBJ and Bobo.
We have all sufferred too many false dawns .
I as much as anyone want Mr Strachan to succeed.
I want to talk about him in the same way i talk about MON.
MON won me over straight away,Mr Strachan has not,yet.
He won't until he delivers The Championship, and competes in Europe with the big boys successfully.
Only time will tell if my fears or dreams are to be realised.
The next month will give us a good indication of our chances of domestic success.
I am still concerned that disappointment lies ahead.
To make matters worse this is the worst Rangers side since the early 80'S.
Lets hope our superior football players can beat there physical journeymen.
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Been using the Celtic Replay online service to watch games for a couple of seasons now, and I have to say I think it's great. Nine quid a month is not that cheap, but it's Celtic games on tap, and the quality is not that bad at all - not TV-quality, but then again, better than TV was when watching the 1978 World Cup live.. mibbees even Mexico '86. It's had its problems from time to time, but the site has been all updated recently, and you now get all the games archived, as well as 3 Celtic TV channels to watch. Give it a go for a month, and ditch it if it's not worthwhile for you.
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Bankiebhoy 7.09
I agree with a lot of your points ,and as my post stated i wasn't advocating TB as a great Celtic manager.(he was a great Celtic player,as Mr Strachan was at Aberdeen)
I aggree that his failing was in the defensive side of the game.
I actually have the same fear about Mr Strachan.
Where i do disagree with you is that you think Mr Strachan has done a better job with our defence.
Camara and Telfer do not bare this out.
From the limited amount i have seen of Du Wei and Virgo,the Chinaman will become the better Celtic player.
Most of my fears about Mr Strachan are based on the fact that he has not improved things defensively for us(so far).
Losing 5 goals to AB and 4 to Motherwell bare this out.
We also failed to keep clean sheets at home to the mighty Falkirk and ICT.
It could be said that MON failed against ICT also. However he fielded a reserve side three days after keeping a clean sheet at Anfield.
Unlike KOJO who does not want us to compare with past.I'm not sure how you compare fully without referencing against the past.
My point may have been lost ,i could have mentioned Liam Brady and his attacking style of football.
MON made mistakes his team in the last year was at times awfull to watch.
I am not blind to his failings.
People keep saying he is to blame for an aging team.
He did not have the money available to Mr Strachan to replace the Suttons of this world,when ne needed it.
Yes he made some bad buys from the SPL market.
I can only guess but i bet that the man didn't want to be dealing in that market.
Over the piece MON was a roaring success bringing us a level of european status not known to us for 30 years.
I hope Mr Strachan improves on his record.
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samuraibhoy,
I see by your outfit you must be a cowbhoy....
No! No! Wrong song! Check that!
I see you are a member of the TOKYO CELTIC SUPPORTERS CLUB.
Do you mind if I Indulge in a little Brain Picking?
Just how has the acquisition of the eminent Naka endeared the Japanese to all things Celtica?
Is there a epidemic of Celticmania or is it more like a mild case of the Vapors?
Please spill the beans.
By the way, you are so right.......Celtic T.V. is the pure Taj Mahal!
It is cheap at the price....as they say.... I know that WE could not exist without it!
Love the Biased Commentators!....God Bless them!
One of these days, I would like a shot... then one would really hear what Biased is all about!
Kojo.
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Kojo
You want P8ddy to ignore the achievements of Celtics most successfull manager in the last 30 years.
If you want to make Mr Strachan look better then just compare him to Liam Brady,Tommy Burns,or John Barnes.
I can remember a Celtic official saying to back John Barnes as he has had the most successfull start as a Celtic manager since Jock Stein.
Now thats what i call a positive spin.
I'm sure P8ddy will defend himself perfectly well.
So i will tell you ,Telfer ain't good enough,Camara ain't good enough.
Virgo worries the hell out of me.
I know he's a big strong lad,so was Giant Haystacks.
The midfield mix isn't right ,we can't regain possession when other teams have the ball.
We are too small and not physical enough.
We allow teams to play football without enough challenges.
These are some my fears about Mr Strachan's team selection.
now you can counter with positives ,Naka,Majic,Boruc,.But the sum of all the parts makes the team.
At the end of the season check our goals for.
Goals against,and points total.
compare it against what MON achieved.
Oh sorry you don't want to do that!
Has it escaped you that we don't even have UEFA cup football.
A fate not achieved since Wayne Biggins embarrassed the hoops.
Just how much needs to go wrong before you will be concerned about Mr Strachans tenure?
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What excited me about Saturday's performance was the evidence it provided of the hard work being done on the training ground. The passing, the movement, the inter-changing of positions, the non-stop running, the effective shutting-down of just about every Livi attack.
Tinytim and some others may moan about defensive deficiencies but the person they should ask is Artur Boruc, who has had precious little to do in ANY game since the match at Ibrox.
The reasons for this were to be found in Mo Camara's after-match comments. He's training TWICE a day. He has NEVER worked harder.
The DEFENDERS stay behind twice a week for EXTRA work on their positioning and tactics.
Quite a few players have mentioned Strachan's devotion to duty and intelligence on the training ground. That is where GREAT teams are built.
He is also working hard behind the scenes to improve our scouting network, watches three games a night and is an enthusiastic supporter and encourager of our younger players.
Sure, it may be too early to predict glory. But the progress is all one-way - we are getting better EVERY week.
Some may think Gordon Strachan won't be a success at Celtic - and will be happy to be proved wrong - but as far as hard work and commitment are concerned the wee man certainly DESERVES to be a success.
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Tinytim
It is impossible to compare teams from different years objectively. Cicumstances change, uncontrolable factor effect the outcome of a teams success or demise.
Are you seriously judging Strachan on his 1st game in charge. Eliminate that game from your memory and has it been so bad? I haven't enjoyed watching Celtic play so much since MON's early days.
Telfer and Camara over the past month have impressed me... they offer more in my opinion than was on offer last season. Camara has not been exposed in the past weeks and has on more than one occassion saved us (this is ignoring the many goals he has helped create). Telfer on the other hand is a solid no nonsense player who will run all day. I am not so stupid to believe either are great players but I fear you take in too much tabloid garbage.
If you want to compare any manager to the memories of MON will anyone win you over?
MON was a great manager; however he had his failings, these failings were clear to see. He was given more resources and inherited players reaching their peak, not on the twighlight of their careers.
To the person who said MON does not get enough credit on this site - I say the man has been made by many a God amongst men - does he really deserve this type of tribute? Does anyone?
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Paul,
While it is still too early to judge our manager, I do think tinytm is just too negative. MON did have much more money to spend than he has had and he did have th e makings of a team when he came. Strachan has inheritted a team which was playing some of the most dire football I have watched in 50 years of following Celtic (and there has been some right rubbish played by some right rubbish footballers in that time).
Things do look much better to me. The defence, while still too fragile at times for my liking (I am of a nervous disposition and watching Celtic that long hasn't helped)has improved since the beginning of the season, particularly Bobo, whom I have criticised regularly here. Camara is by no means the worst player to have donned the shirt (I well remember the headless chicken that was Stevie Chalmers - my uncle Eddie, God rest him, will never forgive me for that- before Mr. Stein used his gift of speed to great effect) and he gives his all all the time. Personally, I would like to see Didier Agathe playing but was I the only one who found it ironic that he was cheered to the rafters when he came on against ICT?
Strachan's signings, especially Nakamura, Boruc and Zurawaski, look differnet class. Here's hoping Du Wei and Virgo come good. Imagine another George Connolly in the team. What I would give to see that! If Du Wei is anything like that, he will be worth the cost of the season book on his own.
We are not eh finished article but we are a lot better than we are at the beginning of the season and a completely different proposition to what we were last season and thank Gord for that.
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On another note, although MON I am sure will be devestated to have had to leave Celtic and obviously devestated by the circumstances by which he left - one day he will look back and be glad that he got out before people forgot his achievements... not many managers get to go out with the love of the club and the fans as MON did.
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Tiny Tim, I have found my self in the strange position of actually agreeing with things you have said, amazing, I never thought this would ever happen. I had an argument with Negative Anon some time ago about wether Strachan should stay or go, I gave WGS my support and explained why, while all around folk wanted his head, I wanted time, Neg Anon was generous enough to do so. I never liked your personal agenda, your patent dislike of the man made it hard to listen to you, but as much as I am a supporter of the man, I believe it a mistake for everyone to suddenly flip and feel we are world beaters, this is going to take time and there will be more reverses to come.
I do think this is the right direction though, also I dont find comparisons to MON personally helpful, I dont thonk praise of the current side should equal dismisssal or condemnation of the previous, nor do I think thats what people are saying, but its fair to say last season was really awful, it literally brought me to tears.
Just as at the start of the season when things were bad I would say again now, clam down, lets see where we get, but lets have some patience.
Best
A
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folk cheering up with regards to wgs and the tic does not mean they were unhappy with mon.
folk openly talking about the crap on offer for much of last season does not mean they are forgetting mons achievements.
folk enjoying the tics style of play right now does not mean they have been hood-winked by the media into believing that celtic were only a long-ball team.
just take things for what they are - we were an ageing side on the slide and now we are a team in transition who have improved from a dreadful start. the time to judge wgs and celtic will be may, not last weekend, not the bratislava week. it will be may.
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My dear friend, Tiny tim,
I am afraid that your Wintery aspect and my Summerlike Aspect, concerning the Present Celtic Team,
are too too far apart,for an agreeable outcome.
Our hopes and dreams for the future performance of wily Admiral are diametrically opposed.
We can never have a viable discussion on the subject in question.
At times in your Submission there was more that a hint that a Strachan Failure would not be greeted with too mucn Dismay on your part.
I suppose that we shall never have a meeting of the minds on ANY subject.......
We just THINK on TWO DIFFERENT LEVELS.
Nevertheless, that is what this fine site is all about.
Vive La Difference.
Your Buddy,
Kojo.
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Saturday's team played very well and were a joy to watch at times. However, as WGS said, the opposition determines what team he plays.
For that reason I think we'll see Lennon and Hartson back for the Hearts game.
On Saturday the best football was after we had the 2 goal cushion. How would Sat's team fare trying to come from a goal down against a strong Hearts team.
We need to win the battle first, problem is, it's going to be a 90min battle !
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Remarkable statistic from Saturday-we only conceded 3 free kicks-is that a record?
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Paul67 - Origin of the term Hun
This is a question I have asked a few older Celtic fans and I have heard this response independently several times. The answer on the origin of the association of Hun to RFC was due to the fact that they were the only team in Britain to have flown the Swastika over their ground. As the story goes they played a friendly with a German team post 1933 - pre 39 when the Swastika was the German flag.
Don't know if it is true. I like it a lot though, something very symmetrical about it.
Could be an Urban ledged, though it does tie in with your time period of occurring dbetween the Great War and WWII
Anyone else hear this version?
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Kojo
I see the sense in agreeing to disagree.
You must believe me.
I DO NOT WANT MR STRACHAN TO FAIL.
I have said it before,my need to correct is far outweighed by need for Celtic to win.
At the end of the season ,come back to me ,if Celtic win the league i will find someway of sending you a bottle of champagne.
This is a serious offer ,and Olive branch between two people who have the same love,and hope for the same outcome.
Yes we can be Buddy's.
We are afterall inextricably linked.
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SanFran_Tic - I hope you're wrong. Celtic, as every club does, has it's idiot element who don't exactly give the club a great name. This would be something for them to latch onto too desperately for my liking.
Just to continue in my "get the flakjacket on" theme, I watched the DVD of Liverpool v Celtic from the Seville run where we won 2-0 last night. I have to be honest and say we were pretty poor! I have great memories of this being one of the great games of our run. Now I'm thinking it's the result alone that I previously enjoyed. Can someone quickly disagree with me and say that you think we played well in that game? (Sylla in particular was atrocious!)
Sorry for the negativity. Paul's harking back and contrasting the 2 styles of play reminded me of this. I blame him.
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WGS has spent £7 million it probably equates to £17-18 million 5 years ago due to market restrictions etc.
Funnily i was thinking back to Livi last year when we were four up at half time playing class football against a far superior Liingston team to the one we played on Saturday.
The battle will have to be won against Hearts Lennon is a cert probably BBJ as well.The comparisons with TB teams are quite scary.
By the way MON inherited nothing.
21 points proves that. I have no axe to grind against WGS but until he dominates the huns(circa late 60s) the same way MON did (and at Ibrox) i for one will keep it all in perspective.
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Well the long awaited humping finally arrived. It was anticipated by many on here in the run up to the game. We had failed to convert so many chances in the previous games, it had to come sooner or later and, bad opposition or not, you have to be good to win 5 0 away from home home. So, well done Les Hoops and bon chance contre des Coeurs en deux semaines. (Pardon my French btw).
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Adam 8.06
I couldn't agree more .
I have been harsh on the man,and far too personal.
With hindsight i regret this.
As much as i was against his appointment no good will come from not supporting him at this stage.
Time will tell.
I want to be proved wrong.
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Paul67 et al ( Maybe St. Anthony can intervene on this one since he seems to be up on all thinks Historic and Celtic)
On the flip side. Were did the term Tims / Timaloys come from?
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I heard it was rhyming slang for Bhoys.
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malone 19
I take your points on board.
Since discovering this site i no longer by the tabloids.
I still get my Sundays delivered.
But this site gives me all the Celtic news i crave.
Credit to Paul67 and the rest of the bloggers for making it so.
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Sir Paul,
I have just read your opening thread for the day.
That was for the.... Second Time!
The Salient point that pricked my attention was concerning, The Little Admiral's Dis-Satisfaction with the performance of the Team in General.(Saturday, of course being the exception that proved the Rule!)
This constant cry for Improvement,Improvement, is what endears me Most to Mr. Strachan.
Victory or no, he calls every game as he sees it.
Sometimes going as far as to pinpoint individual failings...not a usual feature of a Celtic Managerial summation after a Victory.
He demands perfection.
Winning UGLY is just not good enough!
This constant demand for more skillful and intelligent use of the ball by his players, is a MANTRA of which that I can eagerly approve.
Now, I have been told... at The Admiral's insistance ........ONE TOUCH PASSING, in The Daily Practice Games is...... DE RIGUEUR!!
ONE TOUCH!
For anyone who has had any experience in the practice of the Soccerian art.....
That ,my friend, is Really Cookin' Wit' Gas!
Welcome to the New World of Celtic Domination, as Envisaged and Planned by the Little Admiral!
One touch Passing?
That my friend is a thought to Conjure with... or Think about... if you prefer!
Meanwhile, back at the Ranch....
The Player Pool of the number of possible picks, just keeps getting larger and larger.
So many picks and so little time!
But when all is said and done....
Can't Hoit!
I revel in the Dilemma that is presenting itself.
Just what Team Formation will we put out today, Boss?
Loverly, just Loverly.
I'nt it,just?
Kojo.
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Wasn't it from the Jungle days? Jungle Jim=Tim??
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malone said
"On another note, although MON I am sure will be devestated to have had to leave Celtic and obviously devestated by the circumstances by which he left - one day he will look back and be glad that he got out before people forgot his achievements... not many managers get to go out with the love of the club and the fans as MON did."
I actually wish that MON had left after Seville. Apart from the victories(and there were many) I actually found it a chore watching Celtic for long periods under MON. Strangely enough I thought we were better value away from home in the last 2 years under Martin, at one stage was thinking of only going to away games (budget wouldnt stretch to season book and away tickets) due to the fact we just seemed to batter teams, rather than play them off the park at Celtic Park. I think the general concensus was that last year was turgid, I would go back even further than that to be truthful.I remember my mate being aghast when MON was appointed, he said he would have us playing like Leicester, with admittedly better players, but also in an inferior league which would probably be enough to guarentee success. He also threatened to give up his season book after a couple of years but never did, old habits die hard i guess. I, on the other hand welcomed the appointment, anybody who could make Leicester relatively successful was ok in my book. With hindsight, what would we have done under Gus Hiddink if he had managed a 5 year tenure - guess we'll never know the answer to that one.
Dont get me wrong, I thank MON for giving us a fantastic trophy haul, and Seville was out of this world. However one of the worst days of my celtic supporting life happened at Motherwell - why did we let a 5 point gap disappear with 4 games to go? Thats where a manager earns his corn is it not? Come to think of it I remember leaving CP countless times during the Seville season and saying "why did we take the foot off the gas with 20-30 mins to go - goal difference will be vital this year" - God I wish I hadnt been right with that one.
This is a really negative post, and I apoligize for that. However I just think we should get the whole MON legacy in perspective, and remember that some of us were not as euphoric about the way Celtic played for large parts of Martins reign
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I believe it was a street gang ,opposed to the billy boys. the leader of said gang was Tim Maloy, so the story goes.
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The Term tim comes from a Glasgow gang called the Tim Alloys.
Who were predominatly Celtic fans/catholics.
I read this in a book retelling the tales of Glasgow gangs some years ago.(i can't remember the name of the book)
At one stage,the nickname was also boycotted by Celtic as they felt it was linked to gangland hooliganism.
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Regarding the term "hun" my understanding is that it originates from the period when Rangers supporters referred to their team as 'the gers'. This was during or just after the Second World war and the topical temptation among Celtic fans was to extend the term 'gers' to 'gerries' (Germans). The Germans at the time were known as 'huns'so the term was used by Celtic supporters as a derogatory reference to the other lot.
It is also my understanding that the term 'Tim'came into use at about the same time.
Celtic supporters called the team the'boys' which was extended to two syllables as 'bhoys'. Using rhyming slang bhoys became 'Tim Malloys'which was reduced to 'Tims'.
If my information is correct it is highly unlikely that Rangers supporters would refer to themselves as 'huns',it being insulting as a description whereas we are happy to call ourselves 'Tims'. It identifies us as part of the Celtic family.
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The Term Hun
During WW1 the Germans were called Huns. This was to compare them to the Attila led 'barbarians' who had invaded Europe. Funnily enough hun was a positive term in Germany, though the Allied propaganda effectively linked hun to barbarian (raping nuns, killing children etc).
At this time the Irish were regarded as 'huns'. At the time the seekers of independence for Ireland thought 'England's difficulty is Ireland's opportunity' and therefore saw Germany as friends. 'My enemy's enemy is my friend'.
Therefore Celtic fans were called Huns at least up to the 60s. The father of the famous Govanhill Gub has confirmed this to me :-) Many older Rangers fans are still very annoyed that the contemporary fan thinks 'hun' only ever applied to Rangers.
The jump was made in 1972 when the late Ian Archer described the sight of the Rangers fans sweeping across the pitch at the Camp Nou during the ECWC Final as being like the hordes of Attila the Hun sweeping across the plains of Eastern Europe in the Fifth Century AD. The name then stuck.
Therefore the two uses of the term are entirely dissimilar: Celtic because they were political friends of Germany and Rangers because they acted like Barbarians.
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vinnie the dog
mon inherited nothing !!!!!!!!!!!!
a certain no 7 and his big defender mate plus the best player at the club right now
ar you sure ?
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My dear Friend , Tiny Tim,
I gratefully accept the proffered branch of Olive.
You, my friend are one of a kind.
A Maverick in some respects, but always a worthy opponent.
You and people like you, are a very necessary additive to the Celtic Cocktail.
That is the Difference of the Difference as presented by others.
Their Difference is ....Well..
Different!
The Kingdom of Celtica has many Mansions.
No ONE Faith church are we!
When it comes down to Brass Tacks....Lousy Metaphor, I know....
We all Crave the Same Golden Ring ....That's Bettah!...
Resounding Success for Our Beloved Celtic!
Vive! Les Garcons!
your,Bud,
Kojo.
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Hi Paul,
SanFranTic :- In answer to your question I agree with JohnH That was my understanding of the name as well, that the Tim Malloys were an early 20th century street gang from the Calton area, big rivals of the SanToi and that the name was indeed picked for it's rhyming slang with the bhoys.
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tinytim............
I read that book to, will try to get the name tomorrow.
Tim Malloys, Billy Boys and a few more, made up the Razor Gangs that prowled the streets of Glasgow and the Dancing at the Barrowlands in the 20s
PS, it was a very good book, worth a read
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Just to pitch in on the "Hun" debate - it was definitely in use as a derogatory term for Rangers and their fans when I was in primary school in Glasgow in the sixties. Does anyone else remember the parody of a hit called "It's Good News Week"?
"It's good news week
Have you heard the news?
Celtic beat the Gers 5-1
And sickened every orange hun
And turned the sky all green"
I'm not advocating that it's the kind of ditty we should be singing in these more enlightened days, merely offering it as a piece of historical evidence. Don't know the date of the 5-1 game referred to or anything else about the song, but it sure was a big hit in our primary playground. Maybe some of our other, erm, more senior members can recall the details?
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could the book be No Mean City? I think
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Paul67:
About six or seven weeks ago this site was buzzing with lots off really well informed information from suitably qualified individuals re the finances off both Celtic and Rangers.
I have just caught up with todays offerings and i've got to say it has been up there with the best off them.
Given that this is an international week,i thought things would be a bit slow.
Stroll on!
One blinding factor has shone through todays offerings.WE are all in this together{EdwardUrsus}apart.
Yes we disagree in many areas and yes we often see things from a different perspective.However we are all in many different ways singing from the same hymn sheet!
Rightly or wrongly we can never forget the part that MON has played in the history off our great club.Similarly we must all offer the same backing to WGS in order that he too may adorn the annals off all things Celtica.
Hail Hail!
JonG
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In my umble opinion......
Strachan is building what MON did not have, a highly competitive squad from which to confidently pick the team for the specific job in hand...A team that can shift gear, formation and style of play whenever required.
This takes time...and team players, not individuals...
Cast your mind back to Fergie's baptism of fire at Old Trafford...He was given time despite demands for his sacking...and look what he then went on to build. I make this Fergie connection because anyone with intelligence will always be learning from those around him...And Strachan is IMO an intelligent man.
In the current market, youth, competiton for places and prudent investments are the only way forward...MON provided us all with instant gratification by shrewdly playing up 'the benchmark team' and combining his own signings with the inheritence that would make any manager salivate...That is taking nothing away from him...But...(for whatever reason) is was not nurtured for the future...I will always be grateful to him...
Comparisons between them is pointless at this moment: Two managers who have a single minded approach to their tasks...but what very different tasks circumstances shape....I hope in the future that both are revered...
KTF.
KTF
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Paul,Kojo,TinyTim,P8ddy,Spikey,and everybody else who contributed today....
I,m just in from a 12hour shift(an hour ago)and have to repeat JonGs sentiments....
Fascinating,intelligent and utterly enjoyable thread.
CQN is the biz !
Can I just add one(or two) thoughts on Martin O'Neill.....
This Man gave us back our pride...
This Man gave us Seville....
This Man gave us three league titles.....
This Man gave us three Scottish Cups....
This Man gave us some of the best European nights at Celtic Park since the 70s/early80s...
This Man gave us the 6-2 demolition derby and frightened rangers so much they went out and paid TWELVE MILLION POUNDS for Torre Andre Flo......
This Man ONLY EVER HAD THE BEST INTERESTS OF CELTIC FOOTBALL CLUB AND ITS SUPPORT AT HEART.
We might not have always appreciated the football on show in the latter stages of His Celtic career but it was one HELLUVA RIDE !
Thanks Martin.
noel.
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Against Livingston we only had two out and out defenders - the formidable Balde and the improving rookie McManus.
Against better opposition that will ask more questions (ie Hearts and Rangers) we will need the added protection of Agathe, Lennon and possibily Thompson. Every team needs a solid backbone and although the confidence is growing throughout the team, Maloney and Nakamura are far too light weight to start together against quality teams.
With no high profile CL matches to zap the energy levels we should be able to put CL effort into the Hearts match.
If we do we will go top of the league!
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Since we are comparing management styles here is my tuppence worth
IMO MON had his team made up of HIS players - he made sure his signings were players for whom he could provide a platform in order to (re)prove themselves - he very rarely dropped any of his players and if he did it was often terminal - MON seemed to generate a team personally loyal to him - unfortunately I think towards the end this strategy started to fall apart and unfortunately the younger players in the squad were not prepared enough to come in as replacements
IMO WGS seems to believe in a squad made up of well trained and well coached players vying to get in the team on merit - he probably has no particular favourites but will also probably stand no nonsense either - if the team continue to improve at the rate they have been I think WGS will eventually have as much success as MON - different styles but success is what we crave for
Am I right in thinking WGS is younger than MON was when he came here?
VertWolf
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Interesting discussion brewing up. For what its worth I am on the side of the optimists, terrible start but the team seems to be improving by the week. Main thing for me is that although things started badly this season (lack of CL money = financial disaster) there is hope for the future where last season all we could hope for was a collapse over the finish line and not before.
Struggle with a couple of points that have been raised, MC is definitely not the worst player to play for the team. Anyone who puts that forward has questionable judgement or a guide dog who doesn't understand football. Even if the timeframe is only this season SV and SM at M/Well were poor while AV against Dunfermline looked like he was doing a "Woodward", good rugby player trying his hand at the footie. All will play better this season, even if in the case of SV it will probably be for someone else.
Other point is the binary nature of perceptions of MON's time at CP. First up the five years were more complex than some people want to admit and secondly there was life on the park between his tenure and the JS glory years.
BMcN 78-83 vs MON 00-05 Discuss!
10 men won the league vs Demolition Derby.
Next up is the suggestion that MON had to build a team from scratch, that to my mind flies in the face of the facts. We might have been inconsistent but we there was life in the team.
Dr Jo finally gets his message across: 98/99 2nd half of the season.
JB made progress before HL's injury and MV finally got the call from Leeds.
Either of these two teams would have provided better foundations than the shambles that engulfed the team in 2004/05.
Other points to ponder were the lack of collective stamina showed by the team in 2001/02 and 2003/04 where the end of the season was a relief not a joy. The one cup we did win was down to a HL cameo and nothing else.
Inability to beat Rangers in any Cup Final / tactical rigidity when faced by a 4-3-3 formation. Big Eck's one organisational Joker and we fell for it 3/4 times?
The good points about MON's tenure are there but a balance needs to be kept. My comments have been pretty negative only because his successes have been burned into the collective memory of every fan.
Don't want to start a war on this but a lot of people seem blind to MON's failings while possessing 20-20 foresight to WGS's potential pitfalls. The fact that where we are at the moment should not be overlooked, a sixth season of MON would not have had this as a given.
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could the book in question be 'Glasgows Godfather' by Robert Jeffrey. Story of Walter Norval!
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Sir Paul and my Compadres,
What I am about to expound is neither deep nor profound...
But.......
Has anyone else noticed that the submissions from everyone, including the Newbies, is of Saturday Evening Post standard.
The erudition and illuminative powers of the this site's subscribers Know no bounds.
A very enjoyable sojourn can be had, during a typical visit.
Entertainment! That's the Ticket!
Seldom do I partake in a visit, without learning something new and interesting.
Thank you Sir Paul.
This exceptional Blog would not exist without your inspired planting of the initial seed!
A Doffing of the Legendary Titfer, is in order,my friend.
Thank You, Paul.
Kojo.
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madmitch said
"Other points to ponder were the lack of collective stamina showed by the team in 2001/02 and 2003/04 where the end of the season was a relief not a joy. The one cup we did win was down to a HL cameo and nothing else."
maybe i misread your comments mitch, but didnt we win the league in both these seasons, and not just the solitary cup you allude to
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Vinniethedog,
MON inherited nothing? Larsson, Mjalby, Lambert, Moravcik, Petrov to name but a few. You could arguably add Boyd too.
Tinytim
Remember that the "senior players" played their part in Bratislava. I think one in particular was very culpable. No-one is bigger than the club. Remember too that we were doing fine against Rangers until Dougals/Thompsons intervention. Where might we be if he had remained on the park? No-one is saying we are great BUT the football is better to watch. Lets wait and see eh?
SB
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Stevie21, we never had the majority of the ball during the Liverpool game, but there are only two things that count in football:
Scoring goals and not conceding goals.
Celtic done both and Liverpool done neither, therefore Celtic deserve all the plaudits and Liverpool deserved to lose.
Martin O’Neill taught me this simple beauty.
Cheers timytim.
Kojo, I have also been pleased to hear the Admiral talk about dissatisfaction, even after the 4-0 win away at Dunfermline. I hope it penetrates in the dressing room.
Gedbhoy, that sounded like the most authorative explaination so far. I never knew Ian Archer had died either.
Cheers JonG and Noel.
Noel I totally agree on Martin O’Neill will never have to buy a pint when I am in the room. I need to dig our the article from the day he announced he was leaving and do a link to it.
Kojo, you are very welcome. The site has flourished with a little guidance from me and a considerable amount of work from a number of committed individuals, the boss (F.) being one of them, pass on my thanks.
While entertainment is indeed an end in itself, there is an agenda; unashamedly support and promote the interests of Celtic Football Club.
I see more to come!
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Marshall
? Kennedy McManus Quinn
Wallace Lawson Grant McGeady
Beattie Maloney
One player short of a credible home-grown first team?! Great to see them played in a CIS game, maybe next season!
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Hope this helps all those seeking the origin of Tim.
From McArthey’s Bar by Pete McCarthy – Pete McArthey was (he died recently of Cancer) born in England of an Irish Mother and an English Father and always felt more at home in the land of his Celtic forebears than anywhere else.
His book is a cross between a travel book and his own search for his Irish core and soul. His eighth rule of travel is 'never pass a bar which has your name on it' hence the name of the book.
It is an excellent read which at times reduced me to tears of laughter and as also testified by my wee sister who read it in one sitting (literally as she now has a permanent red ring round her bum as the sitting was in the toilet).
Anyway the extract is from page 354 of the paperback where Pete talks about his own family tree as it stretches back to the 1700s as follows:
‘One event in particular catches my eye. At the top of both branches of the tree are two men with the Christian name Tadhg, pronounced in English ‘Tague’. It translates as Tim. The name Patrick didn’t become widespread in Ireland till the 1800s; so before the Irish were called Paddies, they were known as Tadhgs or Tims, a pejorative term that survives to this day in parts of Ulster and Scotland.’
He did a follow up which is called ‘In search of McCarthey’ also a brilliant read which journeys well outside the shores of this small corner of God’s sod.
Unfortunately as I said above Pete died at in his late forties just recently.
I hope Pete has at last found the contentment his hopes and prayers deserved.
He leaves behind some great writing and the answer to why we are called 'Tims'.
Regards
Estadio
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Vertwolf,
I'd go for:
Marshall
Cuthbert Kennedy McManus O'Dea
McGlinchey Lawson Ferry McGeady
Beattie Maloney
Subs: McGovern, Mulgrew, Wallace, Grant, O'Carroll, Bjarnason, O'Brien, Lensky, Cawley etc etc.
And the best thing is, all these players know the manager is watching and WILL play them if they are good enough.
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Tinytim,
You say WGS hasn't improved our defense "yet" but in the 10 games since conceding 5 in Europe and 4 against Motherwell we have lost a total of 6 goals - 3 of those against Rangers when we spent most of the game with 10 men. That's improvement in my book so I'm not sure what you are looking for. Another interesting fact is that in over 100 posts here regarding the state of the current first team, there are few if any comments on the defence other than your own. These are the same defenders lambasted on here not so many weeks ago. PROGRESS !!!!
The folks overseas who are struggling to pick up live games and highlights etc should look no further than our own Celtic web-site. Pay your monthly fees and providing you have a decent internet connection you won't be dissapointed. I have been watching on a cable modem for two years and the quality of live games is excellent. I couldn't live without it now. A 450k feed is all you need. Folks with T1's who can't get quality need to sort this out with their ISP's. It has nothing to do with the club. The rest of the official web-site is awful btw but the live games are the biz.
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JohnBhoy
I am not going to argue with your superior knowledge - I tried to restrict my choices to those who have already played or have been been cited favourably on this site - I notice you missed out Rocco Quinn?
You are right I think the strength of the WGS regime is that all these players will now believe they could get a game on merit alone
VertWolf
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Estadio,
Thankyou for that Loverly piece.
Your Prose is a Delight to the mind.
You are a very gifted and Intelligent Man.
You (for the second time) have just vindicated what I had opined in an earlier submission....
this site is a Cornucopia, overflowing with new and interestings tellings.
I accept that the information which you have provided, sets the Seal on the True derivation of the Byname, "Tim"
Thankyou for clarifying it's antecedents.
Kojo.
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I saw Jim O'Brien scored a hat-trick for the U-19's against Livi at the weekend. Does any one know if he has decided to opt for Ireland or Scotland yet?
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Fellow Tims...what a joy it is to be able to catch up with the news and gossip provided by this site. I for one am delighted at the progress being made on the pitch and sincerely believe we will win the SPL at the proverbial canter.
On the subject of MON's tenure at Paradise there can only be a very few deluded or deranged who are not thankful for what he achieved. Let's not forget the shambles of "supercallygoballisticcelticareatrocious" and how we all felt at that point in time. MON restored the faithful's pride and respect in his time as manager and quite rightly some posters have opined that the brand of football which developed was turgid. No doubt but please let us all remember that we would have given just about anything to have a winning team when MON walked through the gates of Celtic Park and he delivered!
Great site ...........keep up the good work.
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On watching part of the game on Celtic TV tonight one thing I noticed more than anything was that Petrov looked like he was getting back to his best... I don't think I'm the only one who thinks he's been a bit off the boil (still playing well enough, just not to the standards we know he ca) but against Livi he looks like he was really enjoying himself and controlled the midfield.
Another think I noticed is that Naka seems to have started to take more responsibility in a defensive role. He never will in my mind be a great tackler of the ball but all you ask is that he tracks back, puts players under pressure (cutting down their passing/running/crossing options) and generally not give them time on the ball. I think he done this more than I've seen him do before and did well to drop deep to pick up the ball.
Progress in my eyes.
How many clean sheets have we had this season?
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Parkheadcumsalfold,
as i read your post (2:33pm) i nearly spat out my dinner! Robbie Keane a "clapped out has been"? eh? Surely you have not seen Rob keane contribution to spurs in the last few games , two match winning performances + 2 goals , absolutely stunning goals might i add. Keane would grace our team of that i am sure. He fits our "total football" bill and would be availible on a bosman possibly. He dosent get a game because jol would play him because of his contract situation and bad blood between the 2 because of it. Keane's attitude is vindicated by his performances.
As for roy well you said it "has-been" say no more.
enough said i agree.
only one keano.......robbie.
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I always assumed the term hun as applied to rangers was a mockery of the sectarian element in their support.Pretending not to understand the anti Rome hatred of the orange Order and linking it to the sacking of Rome by the Huns and Visigoths(Hearts?) in 410 a.d.The manner in which many Rangers fans rise to the bait making it all the more satisfactory although the extending of it to Hearts as mini-huns must be all the more offensive in the light of the players signing en masse to fight the germans in WW1.As a light on the above (the real Huns) I would recommend How The Irish Saved Civilization by Thomas Cahill (Sceptre Books) --the story of how irish monks and scribes copied the manuscripts of both pagan and Christian writers including Homer and Aristotle when the libraries on the continent were lost forever and europe plunged into darkness following the sacking of Rome and the destuction of the empire by the Huns Vandals and Visigoths--buy copies and pass them to all your Bluenose friends
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Vertwolf,
Superior knowledge nothing ... I should, of course, have included big Rocco Quinn. Strong and skillful lad, though I've not seen enough of him, so I'd maybe start him on the bench.
Ach, who am I kidding? Trying to guess which kids will make it is impossible when you only see them once every few weeks. Fact is, wee Gordon is keeping his eyes on them almost every day and HE is excited.
I look forward to seeing as many of them as possible - and maybe other young lads like Brian McEwan and Michael Graham - all making the grade. Could we be the new Ajax? Wouldn't that be great.
By the way, I've just managed to find a window in my professional life ("Been working from 7 to 11 every night.. it really makes life a drag") to post a Livi match report on:
http:celticfcblog.blogspot.com
Cheers,
JohnBhoy (Sorry, I use the "Celticblog" sign-on on www.blogger.com and keep forgetting to change back!)
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Big Liam _ To Kean or not to Kean -or both?
Question to you and anyone else with an opinion of the Keans'.
Which would facilitate the accomplishment of our near term objective (SPL League title)?
Here is how I approach this one - it's a process so don't commit to an opinion to quickly.
I think Robbie has to stay till the end of the season at Spurs, we should not pay a multi million pound transfer fee for him when he so close to being out of contract. If he were to decide to come to us he would require a fair wedge - I presume, one that would be funded by CL monies. So no CL no Robbie, prestige and cash that is what the CL brings. Robbie is therefore pushed to the periphery of my thoughts right now.
If we can get Roy in Jan to boss the rest of the league into whimpering subservience and deliver the league it is a true win-win, he may even play one or two CL games as a back up the following season. However if he does not come in Jan and we win the League anyway (which we will) then this is no longer a win-win, don't need him, we will be ascending and he missed the boat. If we don't win then he has a second chance it's back to win-win.
On a sentimental level I would like to see Roy play in the hoops, however my head tells me their needs to be something for Celtic too. So Roy come in Jan or face the prospect of never donning the hoops in anger.
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SanFran_Tic...
Great opening line!
Your logic cuts to the chase indeed ...Succinct clarity on a contentious area...well put!
You have convinced me that this is the appropriate approach with respect to Roy.
I do believe Robbie will arrive in time..which will no doubt tell.
KTF
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Noal90 @ 10:42
I think every reasonable Celtic fan , and there are more than a few of us, would echo your sentiments re MON. It is due to his efforts that we have such high expectations today. He will remain a legend in my eyes for his restoration of pride as well as his achievements. I am sure he had faults but no one is perfect, even the Big Man lost a few cup ties during his reign.
I hope John Cole isn't among those supporting my plea for overseas fans to subscribe to Celtic 67 Channel. It is indeed worth much more than they charge and being on a cable connection I have great resolution.
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MadMitch – I think for the first time ever I agree with everything you’ve said, It sometimes seems that any criticism of MON (I loved the guy) is taken as sacrilege. Yes he gave us our pride back, yes to Seville and very yes to thrashing TFOD so many times.
However I also remember discussions on this site as to whether the “senior” players were giving their all, whether the training was as it should have been, (we often seemed to be coasting in the last 30 mins.) and, Ghod forbid< whether the so called senior players weren’t getting to big for their boots.
You said:- Don't want to start a war on this but a lot of people seem blind to MON's failings while possessing 20-20 foresight to WGS's potential pitfalls. The fact that where we are at the moment should not be overlooked, a sixth season of MON would not have had this as a given.
Correct, there is no guarantee that the MON team that fell on its collective face at Motherwell wouldn’t have done the same as Strachan’s(?) lot against Artmedia, and for sure wouldn’t have beaten them 4-0 at Celtic park.
The difference today is that we’re looking forward to (hopefully) a successful Celtic, playing our way and seeing the younger Tims come through, I don’t think that this would have or could have happened with MON, personal reasons aside he seemed to have run out of ideas, and I for one worried from the time that Mr. Larsson was about to leave with no mention of a SUITABLE replacement, ditto Lubo.
I’ll away get my hard hat.
Oregonbhoy
Ps loved the OPTIMISTIC bit, that’s you, Neg_anon and p8ddy, next we’ll have Weeron, can’t wait.
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PJBhoynyc
PJBhoynyc
PJ Welcome to the graveyard shift. What is kicking in Big Apple? Get to see any games, I think there are a couple of supporters clubs in NYC? You are in a better position that those of us on the West coast - timewise at least. Most games here are a 7 am KO 4am for Rangers games.
Anyhoo. I was giving some further rumination on Robbie K as a top drawer signing in the context of a story that was going round CQN after we got dump in Europe.
There were some veiled and overt statements that Michael Owen was prepared to come to Celtic (I think on loan) this season if we were in the CL. Would people rather than have Owen or Robbie. Think I know Big Liam’s answer.
The key here is qualifying for the CL. Celtic are a huge club and they need a big stage. Build it and they will come.
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Hello San fran tic,we have a late west coast game in november 12.00pm , lunch time kick off afternoon off work, I hope,.
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OreganBhoy - evening mate.
I have no issue with your posting re: the venerable MON. It seems a little like when someone passes away. Suddenly they were embodiment of the life idea - no flaws, foibles or idiosyncrasy. Seems like this with MON. I agree he restored pride and belief that we could soar again after 30+ years. I will always be grateful - thanks Martin we love you, always will.
MON also made mistakes, fewer mistakes than correct decisions for sure. However this can only be assessed after a reasonable period of time. WGS unfortunately for him has his mistakes at the front-end of his tenure - so we will have to see how his record looks after his first 5 seasons to test the analog.
Martin made his mistakes towards the end, no doubt distracted by his family (I am not going to list the signings who were only bit parts but consumed the budget).
Let’s not compare the men or their styles of play - lets judge on achievements only.
MON is the 2nd greatest manager in the history of Celtic FC. Come on Gord, the bar is high at CFC, let’s start with the SPL for the next 3 straight and a qualification to the KO stage in the CL every year we qualify.
Hail, Hail
”History burdens only The Great” I think that is my first published quote, even though I quote myself. Too Kojo -esque ?
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Seattle67
That is true - hopefully better than the last midweek game I watched (Falkirk two week ago).
I took a couple of hours of work for that one. Terrible game. This one though hmmm…
I will have to start planning for. I will not be going back to the office after this one.
OK got to take the dogs out for a walk.
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SanFran_Tic
Graveyard shift indeed...Off work for a couple of days so staying up to watch Craig Fergusson on Late Late show..
See games? Yes all of them, there are a couple of supporters clubs in NYC...The Parlour at 86th among the better known venues...
However, like Gavil Guy I am a very satisfied customer of Channel 67. I do not know what I would do without it...Years ago I knew there was a market for, shall I say the more 'subjective' commentator. No complaints with picture either...Sounding like an old cronie but see this technology by the way....The Celtic Family is truly GLOBAL!
I noted the subtle references to Wilfred but I think Robbie would be more suitable...But hey what the hell do I know....Appreciated your take on matters Keane...Sensible perspective..
No fear. No envy. No meanness...Just what is right for the club at the time. Win Win indeed.
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Oh and you are right with your other post..Comparisons at this point are futile...
KTF
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Madmitch-10.47pm-
er...
Mark Viduka was still at Celtic when Martin arrived but could not be persuaded to stay.
Good morning graveyard shift !
Pjbhoynyc.SanFrantic,Oregonbhoy,
Gavilguy ,mncelt and Seattle67-
I,m off to work...
hail !hail!
noel.
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Morning everyone...
I have been wondering for a couple of weeks now(since wgs started realising he didnt have all the personnel to play his way) whos going to be coming/going in January. I know its not good speaking about possible candidates for the exit, but surley WGS must be thinking about it.
If I was WGS, i'd be thinking that the team has the perfect opportunity in January to add/subtract a couple of players to give them time to gel for the European season ahead. Ok, so its slightly premature to be thinkin about nxt season in January, but considering the fact that WGS wants a dossier of all contracts in Top Flight football(at least) then i'd say its pretty clear thats what he'll be doing.
I wouldnt like to see any of our top players leave, none of them, not even the couple who are starting to cheese me off(wont ever name names) because the bigger the squad the better the competition for places. But in reality, some of the top players(or should I say earners cos they arent top players anymore) need to leave to free up some wages.
ATM I believe that the wage bill would be above the recommended 60% of turnover(without European football... turnover based on just SPL & Cup football & merchandise) Therefore WGS would be thinking already who has to be sold/freed.
I would hate Hartson leaving, hes one of my Hero's and always will be! Although I kindof understand(a wee bit, just after the weekend.. plz forgive me BBJ!!!) the argument that hes not the type of centre forward that we require in our new team. Playing against livingston shone light on that for me, was that WGS plan? Its now hard for him to put BBJ back in for Hearts after seeing how the team played. I would argue that the team would be better off keeping BBJ as hes younger than Sutty & if we could find a Partner that knows him then he wont look as laboured as he does when he plays with Magic/Beattie. Hence the big Robbie Keane intro...
I know we dont really need a striker, but when there is a class one out of contract soon, they you have to snap em up. RK already knows BBJ quite well, and he watches him week in week out! Being a fan and all! Actually, I would also then point out that we need 4 strikers... If u count my old pal Shaun Maloney as a midfielder(like he is btw, for school he was class behind the front 2... we were unbeatable!)then we only have 3 strikers.
I think we need a few more months to see how the defence is going to hold before we can say who stays/goes considering we still have to see JK come back and Du Wei introduced to the team along with Adam Virgo.
What about Riordan in the Hoops next season, for Left Midfield? Wonder if WGS is waiting for his contract to run out to offer him a deal... I think it would be a gamble(worth taking)... In the summer he will be 23 and no fee involved, so make a move then.
Heard the Harte for LB suggested a few times... tbph I like Leeds in England.. sorry all you Irish folks, but his delivery is the only good thing about him anymore.. no pace, no flair, doesnt even think anymore! He aint that great, all you folks saying Yes to Harte and No to Keane need yer heeds examined!
I say yes to Keane, although hes old and I would like to see the average age of the squad lowered more. Its a taboo subject, who knows? Lets stop going on abut it and let the manager decide, eh? I think hes better qualified(than me at least) to make the decision.
Anyhoo, enough from me, sorry about teh long long post folks... would be nice to get an opinion on my opinion!
Hail! Hail
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Last 2 Paragraphs about Roy Keane, hehe, should be a bit clearer.. :)
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Great debate by everyone which is the most enjoyable reading I have had in the last week.
TinyTim - I agree with most of your comments & I also know you do not want WGS to fail b'cos we are supporting the club that we love!!
On the great "MON" I will have fond memories of him just as Noel has stated earlier, the guy nrought the heart back to the club with limited resources & If I can also add outwith the result..... :>( Seville was the greatest experience of my life as a Celtic fan.....
MON we salute you!!!
Wee Ghord keep up the "work in progress" Your doing fine!!
P.S. Does Big Sutty have a problem?
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PJBhoynyc
Never got into the Chanel67, even though I subscribe. Only game I watched was the Leeds pre-season game. I was not impressed but I have heard good things from others and that I should play with the settings for optimal quality. I still like the ritual of going to the Pub and having some craic. That is all part of the experience. Even listen to the radio Clyde call in if i get home quickly enough on the internet. I know some people disapprove but I think they should cut us a little slack if we are out of the country.
On the Wilfred O, Dulcet Decorum est etc. I remember when I was a London swank before I moved to the US. I was sitting in mass and this dude walks in with a Rangers top and one of those heavy training jackets - it was Winter. Maybe it was EdwardUrsus, Edward did you even frequent St. Ambrose in Chiswick W4? Anyhoo I digress, I was shocked. Thought that it was kind of cool that people are not tainted by the poison that many of had known. Anyway this was when Gascione played for the Dark Side. He really raised their profile in England. England is a huge market for Celtic Wilfred would have helped that.
I honeymooned in Scotland and Ireland two summers ago and managed to somehow hrrrmmm get ticket for the Celtic vs Fulham preseason game. What? I took my wife - stop looking at me like that. Anyhoo I was blown away by how many of the Celtic fans were English, at least 50-60% another that’s cool moment. I happened to back in London a week later went to the races and then back to town for a few beers in Putney (nr. Fulham). Rangers had just played Fulham. Maybe it my conscious feeling of superiority but they were embarrassing - the Billy boys were getting belters as was the poor Pope. Really what did the Pope ever do to them. With a European Parliment, and the United Nations do they really still see the Pope as the biggest treat to national soverienty? They are truly living in the past. Anyhoo all their fans were Scottish (not a bad thing) an indication of their parochial appeal vs our international one.
Ok. I have not seen Craig Ferguson yet, never got into the Late night shows. Though I like the Daily show on CC. Maybe I will try watching it tonight. I remember when he was Bing Hitler fae Bailiston.
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sorry a bit off topic here but just want to say RIP Ronnie Barker. I think a Porridge CSC is in order
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Estadio
I was not even aware that Pete McCarthy was ill let alone died. Sad news. His books are indeed fantastic reads and I think they would appeal to almost all readers of CQN.
Incidentally his second book is in fact "The Road to McCarthy" rather than 'in search of McCarthy' for all those who are now going to log onto Amazon and buy a copy.
There's a great chapter about being in an Irish bar in New York full of Celtic fans who are "stratospherically drunk" after an old firm game. Great stuff.
VargasShampoo,
it's goodnight from him.
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MadMitch - Good analysis m8 your posts are always well considered.
On the Strachan v MON stance, I get the feeling reading a small minority of posters that their analysis is put forward under 'I want the best for Celtic' banner but at the same time there are undertones of an anti Strachan agenda and they try to justify it using MON's achievements as a stick to beat their drum with.
I'd rather they just came out and say 'Dont like Strachan, never have, don't beleive he is the man for the job' and were up front rather than the 'disguised objectivity' backed up by selective data.
We all hurt about Artemedia but for goodness sake whats the point of holding a grudge? Its the heaviest burden to carry!
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Kojo...
I am afraid that I must shine the light of common sense on your last submission.
Thank you for enlightening me Kojo. I'll ignore the supercilious tone and take that as good humour shall I? Lest you think I'm agressive as well as stupid. But I digress. Onwards...
But to base a whole argument against the present Celtic Managerial Incumbant, predicated on the past successes of a Celtic Manager is in a word...Specious.
Given your superior intellect, I'm surprised at you! Where did I even offer comparison? Please, feel free to bold any quotes from my post. (It's odd, so far, despite many requests I've not had a satifying riposte to that request. Am I misunderstood or just maligned?)
I answered a direct question. That question being "I know it was only Livingston, but was that the sweetest football Celtic have played in years?"
I gave threee examples from last season of good football being played. Plain and simple, no comparisons as far as our managers go.
I am surprised that you did not throw the redoubtable Mr. Maley into the mix.
Kojo, I think you should be pointing this reply to Paul67 as it was he who introduced historical comparisons, not I.
Dictionary definition of Read - To examine and grasp the meaning of (written or printed characters, words, or sentences).
Now, read my previous posts on Gordon Strachan. I'm not basing my misgivings on Mr Strachan on some lame brained comparison to Martin O'Neill, I'm basing it on empirical evidence based on statistical analysis of his previous record.
Really, if you must take up my time with your highly embellished prose, please do so on the basis of reality.
Kojo, lets deal in fact, not fantasy. No matter how many times you repeat this falsehood you're still wrong! You're still trying to divert the argument away from fact and into fiction. I have not now, and have never based my concerns on what Martin O'Neill achieved at this club. It would be foolish to do so, given that Martin was in the job for six years and Gordon has not managed sixteen matches.
I would also take issue with your useage of the word specious. It wouldn't be specious, it would be stupid. Thankfully I'm not, so it isn't.
You are comparing apples with the
proverbial.
I was not the one doing the comparing. Paul67 is your culprit I'm afraid. "sweetest football Celtic have played in years?" Is the comparison string. I look forward to your apology. Given your overabundance of intellect and common sense, I'm sure that won't be a problem. No?
It is time that you stopped this dangerous type of "looking only in the rear mirror" driving.
Lets deal with issues rather than petty point scoring and intellectual oneupmanship.
"History, by appraising the students of the past, will enable them to judge of the future." - Thomas Jefferson
What does that mean? It means we can learn from our past. From John Barnes, from Luigi Macari and from Martin O'Neill. This is the only way history can be usefull to us. By adopting a dewy eyed "good old days" approach we will learn nothing. That, Kojo, has been my mantra for many years.
We must keep one eye on the past to remind ourselves of previous follies and why we cannot afford to go down that route again.
However, please make a more constructive and cogent argument against his abilities.
I believe I do. You have failed to adress any of the points I made in my last post. Blithely ignoring my points won't make them go away. Nor will it make your accusations any more accurate.
I've asked this question before, but I'll ask it again. How much money should we throw at our manager? We were the 8th highest spenders in Europe. How far can too far go? (To paraphrase The Cramps) If spending enough to get us into such exhalted company as the top 10 is not enough then I fear for our club. For this sum I would have expected a lot more than we have recieved given the (supposedly) temporary nature of Camara and Telfer.
That is a question I asked in my previous post. Please answer it. And has there been prudent asset management given the amount of spend? (in relative terms rather than pounds and pence)
Let us hear your doubts explained concerning his ability to deliver the goods.
I've explained them many times on CQN. Rather than bore all readers with yet another rehash of my opinions, why not do some reading of previous posts. They are all available. I do likewise when researching others opinions. It takes a little time, but think of it as etiquette.
You might also wish to reseach into the (mis)fortunes of both Southampton and Coventry under Mr Strachan.
I've been keeping my powder dry on CQN for quite some time regarding our manager. I'm Giving him time and my full backing. At Celtic Park there is no dissention from me. I want him to be a rip roaring success, but I do have misgivings.
The point of my previous post was actually uncannily similar to yours, and that was - Stop comparing this seasons football to that under the MON years! If we start that comparison there will only be one loser. Gordon Strachan must be judged on his own merits, on his own record. Rest assured, that is all I'll be judging him on.
For the record, how would you judge Gordon Strachan?
/p
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No Bread No Cakes...
I'd rather they just came out and say 'Dont like Strachan, never have, don't beleive he is the man for the job' and were up front rather than the 'disguised objectivity' backed up by selective data.
I hope you don't think I'm in this camp. I've always though of Gordon Strachan as a likeable and engaging individual.
Unfortunately, my criteria for Celtic manager includes neither of the above.
Nothing would make me happier than if he were to prove me wrong however. I'd also like to think that most of the "dissenters" on CQN would set aside any personal issues. Our (all Celtic fans) main concern must be the welfare and well being of Celtic.
/p
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it's too early to judge w.g.s. surely.
let's see where the club are this time next year
when he played against us for aberdeen he played with a committed attitude and a will to win which could be irritating,to say the least
he seems to have brought the same commitment to the job as manager
whoever followed m o'n was going to have to prove himself.
m o'n took over from a failed manager who had left the nucleus of a good team
as the chinese curse goes'may you live in interesting times'...
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P8ddy
My tuppence worth. I judge Strachan as having made a bad start: Artmedia & Motherwell.
Since then I have seen continued improvement on footballing style and better communication in the defence. I think the style of football he is trying to get the team to play is attractive on the eye.
Now lets foray into the realm of the hypothetical.
How effective it will be against hearts and rangers remains to be seen.
If he fails agains both teams I will suspend calling for his head until I see if he is able to learn from the set back and adjust his tactics accordingly when we next meet those teams.
My judgement will be based on whether he can continue to improve the football, not just pretty on the eye, but effective in terms of results, and on his ability to learn from defeat.
The question is how many defeats is he allowed and in this I am thinking back to Ecks early record versus MON.
MON realised that Eck was exploiting his back 3 formation using Lovenkrands pace so he switched to a back four and fixed the problem. My hope is that Strachan can do likewise and learn from defeat when it comes round.
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No Bread No Cakes...
If he fails agains both teams I will suspend calling for his head until I see if he is able to learn from the set back and adjust his tactics accordingly when we next meet those teams.
I think thats fair enough. I'm not actively calling for his head at the moment. I've accepted the prevailing logic on here that it probably would achieve very little in terms of positive outcomes for Celtic. I still remain convinced he should not have been appointed, but thats a mute point given that he's in job. At Celtic park and in the presence of opposition fans I dig in and defend the man. Our man. But it doesn't alter by basic opinion.
My judgement will be based on whether he can continue to improve the football, not just pretty on the eye, but effective in terms of results, and on his ability to learn from defeat.
It's a good point. Improvement in terms of "performance" are subjective. Some people like Italian football, some not, for instance. I guess that in real terms improvement is intangible in a great many respects.
I like the idea of the European contracts database but, for the life of me, I can't understand why this has not been in place for years. I seem to recall a similar report that Billy McNeill was instituting some form of system similar to this - but again, why this should be the domain of the football manager escapes me. I would have thought a professional organisation would have implemented systems such as this many years ago.
If Gordon Strachan oversees this, I for one would regard it as a positive attribute and one that would count toward his continued employment at Celtic Park.
Likewise a winning team. To be honest, the manner of the victory is irrelevant to me. Winning is the key. Every match. Every 50:50 ball, every header etc. I want to see a team with fight, with guile, with the ability to win matches out of nothing. Style is a nice bonus, it's a frill. I don't want a lot do I? :-)
My hope is that Strachan can do likewise and learn from defeat when it comes round.
Likewise. Although I wish he would never experience defeat! ;-)
/p
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Not sure if it's been posted before but well worth a listen ( and a laff!)
http://media.putfile.com/Get-it-hostingin-up-ye-stuart-dougal
/Bishop B
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San Fran Tic 08.33 last night
This is an oft quoted urban myth that some fans try to stick on Rangers FC.
There was a game in 1937 (I think) where the Swastika flew from Ibrox. There are press pictures of this that I have seen.
However, this was an international match between Scotland and Germany and the SFA rented Ibrox for the match.
Control of the flags etc was fully in the hands of the SFA. It was not in the control of Rangers FC.
Therefore, the SFA are fully culpable for this pandering to the 3rd Reich.
On Tims
Tims is the English translation of Taig (many spellings). Taig has always been a highly derogatory term for a native Irish person. Taig is still widely used in the North by loyalists.
Where loyalists wish to insult they tend to favour taig in its proper meaning and tim has come to be associated with our club only.
Hun
RFC called us huns because of the Irish association with Germany in 2 world wars. This has dropped out of use and probably only grand parents remember it now.
RFC were described thus after their European destructions of the 60s and 70s esp Barcelona and this has stuck.
It has no implied association to religion or loyalist politics and its usage is fairly and squarely in reference to any supporter of RFC.
In that sense hun and tim are now the closest terminologies (depricatingly applied) for followers of the 2 teams as opposed to containing any national, political or religious connotation, though it may be that the usage is creeping into wider definitions more recently.
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'MON second greatest manager'
er....based on senior cup wins
Maley
Stein
McNiell
O'Niell
McGrory
McNeill pips O'Niell by one league champions win.
Based on League and 'other cup' wins Maley and Stein are neigh on untouchable.
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p8ddy
I'm not actively calling for his head at the moment. I've accepted the prevailing logic on here that it probably would achieve very little in terms of positive outcomes for Celtic.
I for one appreciate it. For the record I would not have appointed him either. Nevertheless I'm further along the line to embracing him than yourself and not on the ludicrous short termism of demolishing Livingston incidentally.
You're stastical anlaysis is damning of him and that cannot be ignored but I've copied below an article from an interview at the start of this year and hope it gives you some comfort in that he accepts he made mistakes and believes he is better for it.
Fascianting reading, particularly the hot topic, fitness....
Gordon Strachan
Friday January 14, 2005
The Guardian
It's been almost a year since I left Southampton and I've been having the time of my life. I've enjoyed being me and doing things I'd never done such as snorkelling, strawberry-picking and going to the Edinburgh festival. But I've also been studying football and hopefully I'll come back a better manager for that.
I think as a manager you learn all the time because I look back on my first couple of weeks at Coventry and think I knew 30% of what I do now. But this has given me a real chance to take a step back and examine training, tactics, people and so on, as well as have more time with my family.
My thirst for knowledge has taken me all over the world. During six weeks in Australia I spent time with Australian rules football and rugby league teams and studied their fitness regimes. I've watched football in Scotland, England and across Europe. I've been to see training at Bayern Munich and Sheffield United, and next week I'm going to Crystal Palace to see Iain Dowie and how he works with John Harbin, his physical fitness man.
I'm fascinated by fitness and preparation and I've learned over these 11 months not to be afraid to get players to do more work and that I should be prepared to do more with them. The more games you play the more rest you need, so there's a balance. But I would say a Premiership team not competing in Europe can spend longer on the training field and I feel the players can work harder than they think they can.
The four or five days I spent with the North Melbourne Kangaroos, an Australian Rules team, were an eye-opener. I watched them prepare for a game in Canberra, saw the game and then watched their recovery in Melbourne. It's an incredible sport and the players are very fit because they run about 20km a game.
I learned that hours aren't a problem to Australian sportsmen. They have total respect for their coaches, especially the fitness coaches. They understand there are no short cuts to fitness, whereas footballers feel there are and will look for excuses not to do things.
The day after the Kangaroos game the players were swimming and doing weights and it was interesting to speak to their doctors and physios. When a player gets a calf strain here we think they'll be out for at least three weeks but it's two weeks there. Prevention and recovery are better.
I can't say I'd have a team swimming every Sunday because you need that facility - you can't just pop to the swimming baths. But it would be nice. At Southampton I took the players into the sea sometimes, including for Wayne Bridge's last session because he hated that.
Another lesson I've taken is tactical. I see myself giving one or two players in a team more licence than I used to, letting them break from the formation to hopefully win games. It's easy to say that when I'm sitting at home, happy with life and under no pressure, but I'd like to think I'll stick to it.
In the past I've been more set in my ways. You really knew where my players would be. When you've got a good team, not a great one, you need to keep to a shape so when the game breaks down you know where you are, but in the future I'll try to let the special players wander more.
You need a good formation to stop you losing and then good players to win. I watched Real Madrid twice last season and felt they couldn't win anything even with their talent because there was no formation going forward and getting back.
On this break I wanted to see if football was different from what I thought and I've had confirmation there is no mathematical equation for being a manager and that training-wise I was doing the right thing.
There's no set way of training and I won't change how I am or how I treat players- you've got to be yourself. I saw Felix Magath at Bayern stand in a corner and say next to nothing and then watched his team beat Ajax 4-0, but that's not me.
Tactically it's been useful to look at formations. There are things you can keep in mind for later. Seeing 10 games in 11 days at Euro 2004 was an education but I also learned from England v Scotland Under-18s at Hartlepool. Scotland couldn't play in the first half and then changed their midfield set-up and I thought: "I like that. I'll stick that in the locker."
People might wonder why I want to be a manager again if I'm enjoying myself so much but I think that's what I'm meant to be and it's what I like doing. I've not been banging on anyone's door for a job but I'm not far away from being ready to go back. And, when I return, hopefully I'll be better for this time out.
p.s. Like the bold? :)
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What about 'The Bhoys' were did that come from?
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Apologies for the CQN outage again today. Thanks to our good friend Martin at The Copydesk for alerting me.
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Off topic I know, but could anybody help me out in trying to find out the last time Celtic had three Scottish scorers in the league. McManus, Wallace, and Lambert all scored last season in the 8-1 against Falkirk in the league cup but i cant remeber the last time it was done in a league game?
Any ideas...
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I see in today's news that Real Madrid have gone streaking past Man U in the "Richest" league. The following excerpt makes interesting reading:
The Spanish club now makes 42% of its income from commercial revenues. This include merchandise sales and sponsorship from the likes of Siemens, Adidas and Pepsi.
Analysts say Real Madrid has deliberately benefited from its policy of signing big name or "galactico" players such as David Beckham as these greatly boost the sale of replica shirts and other merchandise products.
Real Madrid gets a further 26% of its income from match day sales (mainly ticket revenues), 24% from TV coverage and 8% from promotional activities, such as pre-season tours to the Far East.
Commercial income accounted for 27% of Man Utd's revenues during its last reported full financial year, compared with 36% from match days, and 37% from TV.
How does this compare to Celtic?
From memory, I believe that match day income makes up a significant chunk of our Revenue, whereas TV and media income is minor unless boosted by the cash generated from a European run.
With this in mind, it is clear that our Revenue for 2005/06 is going to suffer greatly by the lack of a European run. £8m is a reasonable estimate. This may be a question for the AGM (and a previous thread), but what steps have Celtic taken to mitigate this loss of revenue? What are our projected financial results for the year, and have wages fallen to compensate some of this loss? How much of a Nakamura and Du Wei factor will increase the results with commercial income from other markets?
I apologise if this has been explored in more depth recently, but I continue to struggle to keep up with the growth of CQN and probably missed it.
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Paul,
Any idea when Murray International Holdings are due to publish their accounts up to January 2005? Last year they held their AGM in September but I've not seen any news about their results this year.
As for earlier posts, my my P8ddy, you take yourself seriously, don't you? Any more of those utterly tedious point-by-point replies and I'll start the debate again on who you really are. ;-)
Just chill out, man!
JohnBhoy (http://celticfcblog.blogspot.com)
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Michael__67...
I know, but could anybody help me out in trying to find out the last time Celtic had three Scottish scorers in the league.
28-04-2002 Celtic 4 Hearts 1
Scorers - Lynch (12,41) Maloney (50,65)
Thats cheating though as it's not three seperate Scots. Sooooooo...
01-11-2000 Celtic 5 Hearts 2
Scorers - Crainey (41), Smith (60) Healy (99) and McNamara (117)
(Lubo scored the other)
Not a league game though. League cup quarter final. Will that do? :-)
Of course the genuine article is the following -
01-08-1998 Celtic 5 Dumfermline 0
Scorers - Burley (45, 84, 89), Donnelly (58) Malky Makay (83)
Looking throught the reults I feel strange. It's amazing the results previous managers got sacked for. Amazing.
/p
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Celticblog...
As for earlier posts, my my P8ddy, you take yourself seriously, don't you?
Not really. I just don't enjoy being patronised or misquoted. I'm robust when I need to be. The rest of the time I'm a sweety.
Any more of those utterly tedious point-by-point replies and I'll start the debate again on who you really are. ;-)
With regard to who I am? Ask and thou shalt be ignored.
As for the other point, if you find my posts tedious, please scroll on by. You are not obligated to tedium.
Sometimes it just feels like it. ;-)
/p
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P8ddy
Cheers for that. Ive always dreamt of being put up in bold by yourself! Im away to pretend to my brother that I just figured the three scorers out myself...
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There's more moaning on here than in a cheap porno movie.
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I'll take your word for it Tom ;)
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P8ddy
Get a job or get a life. You're full of it!
That is all!
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I stated in July on this blog that we would not get the measure of what Strachan might be able to achieve until post September. He needed that time just to form his own play patterns with the players.
It was no surprise that we had a bad start in such a change environment.
The man needs at least a season to indicate what his potential is.
If by the end of October we have achieved top spot in the league that will be a significant achievement in my book and greater than we should have expected.
If by the end of November we are still in the CIS Cup and still ahead in the league that will point to continued progress.
These are called milestones.
The main destination is the CL secured spot, which can only be achieved by winning the league after a full programme.
I was not convinced on appointment that Strachan fitted the profile experiencewise of what we should aspire to. However, crucially from day 1, as the man appointed, he deserves the full backing, not resrved or conditional, of all the supporters for that full first year.
Any judgements positive or negative before May are unjustified and unfair.
CFC is a work in progress. So is Gordon Strachan. We should back the man and his players to the hilt to give them all the opportunity to show their potential.
There has been much made of the calibre of players brought in. It is too early to pass judgement on their efforts, however, recognising inherent weaknesses, I think they are progressing well so far.
You don't have to go back further than MON to identify players who have delivered less for Celtic than those brought in recently.
Hedman, Sylla, Fernandez, Camara.
It remains to be seen what contribution this manager and his signings truely offer us, but the one thing that they all deserve is the chance of the season to demonstrate (or otherwise) what that worth might be.
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P8ddy,
You're startin' to chill, man. I'll lend you my motto: "Learn to laugh at yourself ... before everybody else does."
That's not patronising, just sanity-saving advice to a fellow fanatic.
Ditto Minesastella. The Devil's Buttermilk is more conducive to an even temper. ;-)
Now, when will Tom64 post a link to that cheap movie?
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the link to the cheap porno (how much to film/buy dear pornos ?) will probably be superceded by one of those "this post has been removed...." type postings
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cheap entertainment available at www.follow.follow.dob.uk
oh sorry, my mistake, that's a horror!!
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Back to the fitba',
Will Sutton play up front with Majic against the Hearts?
I hope so, as Hartson will be food and drink to Pressley & co.
Beattie to come on for the last 30 mins. He seems to do better played this way. Can't wait!
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Kojo 12.32am
Your ever awake abilities would make even a chronic insomniac seem like rip van winkle.
I salute you!
BlantyreKev at 10.27am
Thankyou for the correction on the book title and apologies to anyone who searching for the title I quoted and got a 'nil response'.
My only excuse (considering that said tome was behind me on my bookshelf) is intellectual torpor following the strain of trying to be creative all day - and believe me that is a strain for those like me born with the developed brain power of a Gregg's steak bake, and also due to typing while in charge of a full bladder.
I haven't contributed for what seems a lifetime here, but the imaginative, constructive, and controversial contributions continue their gold-veined seam.
It puts to black-burning shame not only those tabloid journalists who don't even realise just how little they know, but also those who believe or even substantially quote their verbal diahorrea is support of their own stance.
For either of those parties, a visit to this site must be like St Paul and his Damascene enlightenment.
It is a problem that even now is starting to infect those few remaining organs of Objectivity - the Herald and Sunday Herald.
Note the change of tone and the increase in regular prominence given to the contributions of Broadfoot, Wilson, and Robertson, and saddest of all note the total silence from Graham Spiers over the prehistoric outpourings of the throwbacks and Donald Finlay clones in the San Siro.
Perhaps the only way for that and our own issues this side of the city to be solved (gradually, for evolution is the only answer - revolution will only breed further resentment and a barricade mentality) is for the creation of a printed offspring of this site entitled :
Football Quick News - Football news not lazy journalism.
Anyway
Back to the creative challenge and possibly getting to ASDAS before all the 2 for 1 offers on expired sell by date Pizzas have gone!
I'll contribute again when I think I have even a tint of colour to add to the artists' palettes from which the brushstrokes fashion the 'Da Vinci' of football websites!
Regards
Estadio
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right dumbhoy and I bet it's full of tits, arses and pr@&$s so you're not that far off the mark.
Not my kind of entertainment though.
johnbhoy, well said my man. The last few threads have generally been very good but recently there's far too much cutting and pasting going on for my liking. It's like being on a Philadelphia lawyer's website. Litigation is not an option on CQN.
Cut some slack. The majority of us are real supporters and for better or worse say what's in our heart before consulting the grey matter.
Some big tests coming up but at least we are all looking forward to them. Not dreading them as we would have been in August. We are going to drop more points but so are the rest so if it's not 100% it's not the end of the world. It will just feel like it!
b.
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Vertwolf,
Howzabout Gary Irvine for the right back slot in your team?
I would love to see that team fielded in the big league too. I love watching the young pretenders play. Kenny MacD is doing a great job with them.
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CelticBlog (JB) the silence is interesting from MIH. I am checking every day, will let you know as soon as there is something to report.
p8ddy, an email flooded in to me which simply read: "can someone tell paddy that healy is irish".
I hope you have the tin hat on this afternoon.
dumbhoy, agree in spades. Thanks also for the fine historical info earlier.
Estadio, cut Speirs some slack. If he does not change the record every now and then he will lose his effectiveness.
I have no doubt he will return to the task full of prose to eloquent you could have penned it yourself.
Excellent contribution again today, thanks.
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My dear Friend, Blantyre Kev,
(And my Amigo Sir Paul and Compadres are invited also)
You have always impressed me as a very astute and worldly ( in the nicest sense!) gentleman.
Your last submission only reinforces my announced impression!
There is a hoary saying where I am billeted.........
"Don't Confuse me with Facts!"
I am afraid that you have been
Naive enough, to just do so!
Yes, my friend.......
I hope that a few of the Unconvinced,Fence Straddlers, that populate this Legendary Site( It has now reached that milepost...Doncha think? Paul?)
take the time to thoroughly digest,
Mr. Strachan's Piece in The Guardian,which you have so Provokingly Provided.( Nice? Huh?)
"Provokingly Provided Piece!"
Should have used that for the Title!
It contained the Divestiture of The Admiral's Parochial Coil and his Assumption of the Mantle of A World Class Coach.
It was a Declaration that had not escaped the Navigators of Paradise ...And logically led to his subsequent appointment as a worthy replacement of the Blessed One.
These men who guide the fortunes and hopes and dreams of The Celtic Legions were not raised by stupid fore bearers!
When is the Board going to be recognized as as(Twoser anyone?)what they are........A body of Dedicated Celtic Fans.
No More.....No Less!
To return to my main theme>
The Admiral has definitely won me and my company over to his side.
From the information(Pukka....Pure PUKKA!) that we have been able to glean.....
Mr. Strachan is all THAT and MUCH MORE!
He absolutely Practices what He Preaches.........A very Rare Trait!,as you are no doubt aware of!
And, Yes he is a no nonsense,type of individual.
"Shape up! or Ship Out!"
A slogan to live by..a la Mr. Strachan!
I can see with my own eyes that the majority of THINKING CELTIC FANS have tumbled to the best kept secret in all of Celtica.....
MR. Strachan is Born Leader.
Mr. Strachan is nobody's Fool
Mr. Strachan is a breath of Fresh Air
Mr. Strachan was a wise Choice by the much maligned Board
Mr. Starching will lead the Celtic back into Europe.
Had enough! All ye of Little Faith?
Thought so!
Celtic are on the Rise!
Hail! Hail!
Kojo.
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Like him or loathe him, WGS's most ardent critic cannot deny the commitment, honesty and will to succeed that this man possesses.
These three ingredients coupled with a sound knowledge of the game are all that a Celtic fan can expect from a Celtic manager.
All he expects from us is patience.
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Can I just confirm that my appraisal of Martin O'Neills' time at Celtic(posted last night)was not, in any way, an attempt to undermine Gordon Strachan.
I have supported Gordon from his appointment and I love the football we are playing just now.
My praise of Mr. O'Neill was just that.
Not a comparison with any other Celtic manager.
Are we clear ?
noel.
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Crystal clear Noel90...and a very eloquent tribute it was too! I wanted to acknowledge it earlier but you were heading out to work...
BlantyreKev 1223...Thank you for bringing that article to the attention of everyone...It is indeed a fascinating read!
The unfolding leadership of Sun Tzu is geting curiouser and curiouser...
Anyway I am off for my lunch of banana and seaweed...
KTF
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I cannot believe all these so called Celtic fans havin a go at Martin O'Neill. Before he took over we finished s record 21 points behind the huns, had to qualify just to get into the first round of the Uefa Cup and were staring into the football Wilderness. Now we had 3 out of 5 titles several cup wins and the Uefa cup final. Those who say he left us in a mess are at it. What if he spent Strachan's money in January then they would say he spent al lthe money and left him with no dough. Now it's he left Strachan with no team lay off Martin!
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Evening Celtic quick news:
I see our compadres in the press now have Roy Keane taking over as manager off the Irish national side.
What next MON for England?
WGS reckons he needs more players off a higher standard to move the club up with the really big boys!
In this respect Roy Keane would be an immense asset for the next season or two.
I see no reason why,given his admitted attraction for the club that he would not if offered, sign a play for pay type off deal.
We most certainly need another player off prescence in midfield and he fits the bill.
If not him then why not spend some money on Skacel who is on a loan deal at tynecastle.
Personally if the clock could be turned back i would have Paul Mcstay in there like a shot!
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My dear Noel90,
I hasten to alleviate any thought that your justifiable admiration of Mr.O'Neill was taken as an indictment of the Little Admiral.
Pleasant memories are to be cherished and the Triumphs of the the Former Incumbent, are most worthy of that thought.
What I object to strenuously(" And I am unanimous in that!") is when the skills of a Former Manager or Player are compared Contemporaneously with a Present Practitioner of the same art.
It is an impossible comparison and should never be attempted.
"Times of Past and Times of Present shall never a Moment Meet".
Who said that?
Don't know, but it sure sounds deep!
In case anyone's Curiosity has been Piqued( Yes, there is a lot of that going around,Mabel}...
My use of the Agnomen(HuH?)...
"Admiral" ......When referring to Mr.Strachan.....
Is based on my Unplumbed Admiration for Admiral Lord Nelson.
He too, was a very gifted leader and intelligent strategist...and.
Was also visibly challenged in the matter of height .....
Being only 1.6 meters tall or 5ft.2 inches.......for the Old Fogies among us....I being one.
Yes, I do declare that "Little Admiral" is a fitting Designation for our Estimable Manager.
Viva los Taigs!
Kojo.
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Tonight from Norwich............
....it's the quiz of the week........
..it's the Celtic quicknews quiztime.
Sad night it is as well. Many's a night in st.anthony towers in govan we enjoyed the 2 Ronnies followed by a fine helping of playing football the Celtic way on Sportsreel (old sportscene). In my mind's eye it's always a goalfeast for Kenny, Dixie, Jinky and the bhoys. Happy days.
Anyway I digress. Question is :
Name 6 players sighned from Aberdeen by Celts since 1973. Shouldn't be too difficult.
San frantic - To the best of my knowledge the 'Tim Malloys' wwere a Catholic gang from the Calton area, early 20th century. They were a rival of the 'Billy boys' and therefore you had the 'Tims' and 'billys'.
As for the 'hun' word this evolved late '60's after thir misbehaviour at Newcastle, Leeds, Barcelona, Villa ad infenitum.
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Joe Miller
Charlie Nick
Mark McGee
Billy Stark
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Actually it's worth pointing out that pre-Stein, Celts' fans did not have a great reputation.
Big Jock changed all that with a wee bit of education and putting pride back into the club. Never forget if you wear a jersey or scarf then YOU represent Celtic.
Even then we had our moments witness the ECWC semi at Anfield '66, Hibs home '75 when the jungle invaded the pitch on a foggy day and Burnley '78 in the Anglo Scottish cup. Also Stirling in '72 when the big man jumped into the crowd to take the 'war music' lot to task. It was like Moses and the parting of the waves. We owe big Jock more than we realise.
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Steve Murray, John ....
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John Hewitt
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