 Monday, October 03, 2005
Strachan faces key decision on which first team players to drop
I know it was only Livingston, but was that the sweetest football Celtic have played in years?
Beauty is in the eye on the beholder, and we were not complaining in the early years of Martin O’Neill when we efficiently seen of some of Europe’s finest. It would also be a mistake to assume that the two-touch passing game is what it is all about, if Martin O’Neill taught us anything he taught us this.
The enforced absence of Lennon and Thompson has changed the modus operandi of the midfield. There is a huge question ahead for Gordon Strachan; what happens when these two return?
Do we revert to a midfield of Lennon, Thompson, Petrov and Nakamura, or will there be a place for Maloney and Sutton? My guess is we will not see both Lennon and Thompson return as automatic first choice players. If the manager uses the same rules for dropping midfield players who perform well, as he does for defenders, neither will play against Hearts.
More comment has been made on Celtic Quick News about John Hartson than any other player. At fifteen stone he appears languid and heavy; slow to get forward and slower to get back.
Before pre-season, Strachan was advised against keeping John Hartson, though the manager insisted that he knew what Hartson could give him. In those dark few days after Bratislava a decision was made to drop Bobo Balde and I believe the position of Hartson was also under review.
Three days later, he scored a hat trick at Motherwell and demonstrated why he has been such as effective player for Celtic. There are several possible explanations as to why he was on the bench against Livingston and I think it would be premature to suggest that Gordon Strachan prefers a forward line of Beattie and Zurawski. No-one, though, is going to suggest that Hartson fits the high-tempo, total-football Strachan talks off.
Do you remember back in 1997? Of course you do, we had just lost the league for the ninth consecutive year, and our five most effective players (McStay, van Hooijdonk, Cadette, Di Canio and Thom) all left the club.
We changed from a silky, high-scoring, losing football team into a turgid, low-scoring, winning team. While Paul McStay would have fitted into either system, we would not have been able to successfully change style had the others remained in the team.
1997 was a year of bitter lessons, when only a fool or a true visionary would have been happy to remove our best players.
If you listen closely enough to what Gordon Strachan has to say the signs are there that bigger changes lie ahead. He has talked about not being sure he has the personnel to play the kind of football he wants to. As recently as Friday, he said we were a long way from being the finished article.
Since Bratislava, we have been a weekend away from a crisis, a state that I think has now passed. When he was so close to a crisis the last thing the manager could undertake was radical surgery, no matter how evidently it was needed.
If he beats Hearts to go top of the league, I don’t think Strachan will look back. Expect some interesting times.
432 Comments:
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Apologies to anyone who had trouble accessing Celtic Quick News since Friday. I have had a couple of problems which may or may not be resolved yet.
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Lennon yes, Thompson No.
Think Beattie will make way for Sutton up front.
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Was at the game on Saturday and i've i got to say the team especially Naka were a joy to watch.
Nakamura brings a range of passing and fluidity to the midfield.He moves with every pass into a position to receive the ball
back and we will score a lot more goals like the 2nd on Sat when players catch on to this movement.
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Paul
I think Gordon Strachan has to go with the same team. He has a formula that he wishes to play to - fast flowing football, that is as easy on the eye, as it is incisive against the opposition defence.
I have stated on previous occasions that the old guard has had it's day. Youth, pace, one-touch football is the future, and this is what we saw on Saturday.
This team is growing in confidence, and that will expand even further if they are picked against Hearts.
Sean & Craig being included in the Scotland squad is a confidence boost to both them and the team.
Mr. Strachan has proved that he is not afraid to make decisions (dropping Bobo after the AB game, then re-instating him after Motherwell).
Whatever team he picks will have my backing as always. We must realise however that this is only one game. The manager and the team will only be judged over the season as a whole.
Hail! Hail!
Curly
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I've been sying this for some time - WGS has some tough decisions ahead. As long as Lenny, Sutton, Thommo and Hartson are played in the same team, we won't be any different to last season. The fact that all 4 are top earners (maybe not Lenny now), also highlights that we need to get a couple off our books in January. All four have played a huge part over the last few years, but I also think that for that very reason, none will be happy to play a bit part.
The Herald said this morning that Maloney was fantastic again in midfield and they felt there was no way he could be dropped. If Beattie could learn to hold people off a bit better and win a few more flick ons, I also think it'd be difficult to include Hartson or Sutton in front of him due to his superior mobility.
Testing times are ahead for WGS, starting a week on Saturday. There's some big personalities among the four I just mentioned, and it's going to be very interesting to see who plays against a very mobile Hearts team. Can't wait for this game - I see it's already a sell out so should be a good atmosphere. Also great to see a good performance - it's a while since we gubbed a team!
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I've been sying this for some time - WGS has some tough decisions ahead. As long as Lenny, Sutton, Thommo and Hartson are played in the same team, we won't be any different to last season. The fact that all 4 are top earners (maybe not Lenny now), also highlights that we need to get a couple off our books in January. All four have played a huge part over the last few years, but I also think that for that very reason, none will be happy to play a bit part.
The Herald said this morning that Maloney was fantastic again in midfield and they felt there was no way he could be dropped. If Beattie could learn to hold people off a bit better and win a few more flick ons, I also think it'd be difficult to include Hartson or Sutton in front of him due to his superior mobility.
Testing times are ahead for WGS, starting a week on Saturday. There's some big personalities among the four I just mentioned, and it's going to be very interesting to see who plays against a very mobile Hearts team. Can't wait for this game - I see it's already a sell out so should be a good atmosphere. Also great to see a good performance - it's a while since we gubbed a team!
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Look at every position individually and I think Lennon comes back in, providing you feel a defensive midfielder is necessary, against Hearts. He is the best holding midfielder at the club and capable of contributing as link up man in the passing game.
He replaces Sutton in midfield for me and Sutton replaces Beattie up front, for an hour then let Beattie loose on them. He's still young and not yet the first choice striker.
Thompson does not come back in simply because others are playing his position better than he is at present.
Hartson will have to bide his time.
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it is interesting that m.o'neill's strategy was to buy strong players who could outmuscle the opposition,while g.strachan seems to prefer speed and mobility,in fact a reversion to a more'celtic'way of playing the game.
p.s when did the term'hun'for the t.f.o.d first become commonplace?
i take it it has its'origins in the first world war,or was it in use before then?
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I feel particular care has to be taken re: the midfield, we MUST strike that fine balance between fluid fast flowing football and the need to dig in when required.
This is where i believe a Roy Keane type (if not him) is needed, someone who can combine both. IMHO this is a must if we are to progress. I for one am very impressed with WGS meticulous approach to the game and feel he will get us there.
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Refrain:
Walk with me, oh my Lord,
Through the darkest night and brightest day.
Be at my side, oh Lord,
Hold my hand and guide me on my way.
Sometimes the road seems long,
My energy is spent.
Then, Lord, I think of you
And I am given strength.
Refrain
tones often bar my path
And there are times I fall,
But you are always there
To help me when I call.
Refrain
Just as you calmed the wind
And walked upon the sea,
Conquer, my living Lord,
The storms that threaten me.
Refrain
Help me to pierce the mists
That cloud my heart and mind,
So that I shall not fear
The steepest mountain-side.
Refrain
As once you helped the lame
And gave sight to the blind,
Help me when I'm downcast
To hold my head high
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I will refrain from using the 'work in progress' tag. It makes us sound like a building site! WGS has stated that we are far from the finished article. Of course that is the case, but we have to be pleased with where we are right now and the advancements made since the 1st two fixtures of the season. What we have now is a decent squad and I don't want to tempt fate at all, but is there any single individual in there now who could be regarded as truly indispensable, like a Henke or a Bellamy. No bad thing either.
Incidentally, is there such a thing in football as 'the finished article'? Surely every team(even the likes of Chelsea)is constantly looking at ways(and players)to improve what they already have. To have the train of thought of being a finished article would surely be resting on one's laurels, an accusation which could be flung at Celtic boards of the past.
Might I also add that I am delighted to be proved wrong in recent weeks with my belief that Shaun and Naka could not be accomodated in the same starting XI. Fantastic.
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Things are certainly looking rosy at the moment. I'm glad my initial faith in Strachan is being backed up by the performances of his team on the park and the professionalism of the man himself off the park. Let's not get too carried away though as we are always only 2 games away from a "crisis".
Is anyone else gutted that the international break has arrived when it has? If we could have met Hearts this weekend, then we would have been certainties to beat them convincingly. They are stuttering after a couple of dodgy results, whereas we are flying.
And the good thing is, we are still in the early stages of getting to where Strachan wants us. Gord only knows what this team will be like when we complete the journey.
The biggest plus for me this season so far is the form of the home grown bhoys. Long may it continue. Nothing cheers me more than to see one of our own living the dream.
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After the European disaster it takes a lot to admit, but WGS is starting to make a difference. The thought process is similar to Tommy Burns, lets hope WGS gets more luck in the big games and support from the Boardroom than Tommy received....A couple of fullbacks and the signings of both Keanes in January could raise us to a new level. Still one game from disaster, at the moment. Well done Celtic
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A good and comprehensive win played with style and fluidity.
After the stuttering early start it is the best we can ask for right now.
However clearly we can HOPE for much more if as you suggest Paul that WGS will make more radical change as time moves on.
The Hearts game will only be one more game in this period of transition and regardless of the result we must be as patient as we can.
To me the most interesting comment from WGS was that he believed teams with inferior players will always try to play the game as if it were a cup tie to try and even the differential in skill and he went on to say that our game plan was to stop the other team doing that and turning it in to a cup tie style.
It seems so simple and yet so right - by allowing teams to play us high up the pitch in a 100mph back to front kick and run style we lose our advantage.
With every passing game I see more evidence that he is instilling in the players a different way of thinking - almost a credo of "prevention is better than cure"
it will be very interesting to see how we tackle Hearts because if we control the game from minute 1 as we did at Almondvale then their attempts to play a cup tie will be pushed aside and I'm not sure they can play any other way.
Once we have that control they will struggle to keep us at bay for 90 minutes particularly at CP
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hi paul, fellow celts....
great result on saturday. so glad i have you guys writing (almost) minute by minute updates during the games, it's the only way i get to know what's going on if the celtic game isn't chosen by setanta. is it true the game vs hearts isn't going to shown live???
can you imagine the torture of it all, knowing that the family milkman is sitting in my seat in north stand upper, section 403, every other week. still, he'll be doing his rounds on frosty mornings soon so maybe i shouldn't feel too hard done by when i'm lying on the sun deck of the dive boat every day....
just wanted to ask, does anyone know of any websites that perhaps show the footage from games? there was one posted on here a while ago which showed the goals (i remember catching the pre-season goals on it) but i can't remember what site it was.
does anyone have a dvd recorder for recording the games? i'm so desperate i'd pay someone to send them out to me, even if it did mean watching them a month later!!
anyway, that aside. another fine post paul, agree with it 100%
really wishing there wasn't the break next week before the hearts game. that always seems to happen to us, just when we seem to peak..!!
i reckon if we do a job on hearts then we could go on a very significant run of results.
well, if anyone can help me with my plight i'd be eternally greatful.
hail, hail to you all.
alan, in paradise but not THE Paradise......
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I only saw the highlights of the game on Setanta on Sunday but we did look very impressive. The players also seemed to by playing with the metaphorical "smile on their faces" which is a big plus from last season when a lot of players didn't look like they were enjoying themselves.
As for the Hearts game I can see Lenny coming straight back into the side with Stan pushed forward and Sutton moved up front with Zurawski. Naka and Shaun should also keep their places. This would mean Hartson, Beattie and Thommo all on the bench.
Difficult decisions there for Gordon but, of course, the upcoming international matches could make the decisions for him.
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1:10 PM alan in thailand
baba posted this website yesterday showing the goals -
http://media.putfile.com/LIVINGSTONVCELTIC_000170/wide
Hail! Hail!
Curly
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It has been a fair while since 3any celtic fan had more than 4 domestic games that they were truly concerned / interested in, in a critical to the season kinda way. Normally we have 4, 6-pointer games in a season, this term we have 12, two have already been played, whoever comes out 1st, 2nd, 3rd in these wi2ll do the same in the league.
Paul as a side note, we have often needed to understand the financial "AHEM" management of Murray etc in our to compare with our own, now we are at at war on two fronts can we have a profile of hearts in particular relating to
(i) the new owner - his means, intentions, sustainability
(ii) the manager - his relationship with the owner and the players the owner has selected, his longterm plans
(iii) the squad - aren't quite a few of them only there till jan
Cheers BB
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Try PP Live for the games, Asian website, I watched the Sunderland V West Ham game on it on Saturday afternoon. If the game is going out Live in Japan then it will be on one of the PP Live Channels
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Paul67
What about celtic at home to Lyon in the Champions League? Surely that was an acomplished and stylyish performance - and against a decent side.
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Alan in Thailand
Another option for the Livi goals
http://s40.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0C9LP5S2KCGWB3DCGT0G8SY2KF
good coverage here
Full match can also be downloaded from the Mininova site
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The're is a Prog lister here too... like a TV guide. Dont bother with the commentry though, unless you can speak Japanese, Chinease, Vitnamese, or whatever other Asian network that decides to screen it! There is some other football on occasionally with English commentry.. normally the Yanks going feel! It even has ESPN on it, :-D
I have sat with the radio on and the game is less than a minute delayed notmally. Its like one big instant replay.
Worth a download if you have the patience. (And dont like setanta anymore)
http://www5.pplive.com/english/
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Alan in Thailand
www.asiaplate.com
is a good site for to get games on the net.
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You called it BLANTYREKEV:
Lennon in for Sutton and Sutton to replace Beattie!
The style off play we are developing, leaves no room for players who can not play at a high tempo.
In the short term Sutton i feel will replace BBJ which may see the big Welshman move out in the January window.
Chris Sutton is in the last year off his contract he will most likely leave in the summer.
WGS will go with Magic partnered by Sutton and or Beattie,for the rest off the season.
Roy Keane will join in January,as will other players off pace and or presence.
Where does this leave Alan Thomson.If my guess is correct he will be the one sacrificed for RK.
Paul67.
How right you are .Paul Mcstay would have slotted into any formation you care to mention!
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Good article Paul. I think we shouldn't get carried away yet. If we beat Hearts then we are well on our way to the league.
If we can follow that up with wins all through November then I'll certainly have a happy Christmas and New Year.
However, as I watched the Falkirk/Hearts game yesterday a thought struck me. In the face of adversity, against a lower team, we would still expect at least a draw from the game. Despite being a goal and a man down. I thought Hearts had buckled, but ultimately they got their draw.
I think they are serious contenders. If their squad is up to it, they will be there or thereabouts. If we beat them in a fortnight it will be a good measure of how far we have come.
Hopefully we can get all our guys back from National duties having achieved the results they need and perhaps scored a goal or two.
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Nice to see everybody in a positive mood after Saturday.
Paul makes a very good point with comparison to the 96/97 team. We need to make sure that we are a team of winners. There will be times when it is ugly that we must win. WGS needs to make sure that while he has been brave to drop Hartson he must also change when the gluepots of winter may prohibit the style of play that he wants to do.
I don't think that the way WGS wants us to play precludes anybody from selection but they have to be playing well. BBJ looked good against Motherwell and then the Artmedia home, and while he'll never win a sprint,just now he is being barged off the ball by players that he would have swatted aside early last year. On form he will always score goals but he more than most cannot be a yard off his pace.
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How many players do we have away this week.Eight is it.
Fingers crossed Ghuys,no injuries please.
When these games come up i can't help thinking off John Kennedy and the injury he sustained.
He'll be back though!
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Good call AL1888.
Belfast Bhoy, apart from the public pronouncements of Vlad, I have no other info on the plans for Hearts. It is interesting that he has stated publicly that he is here to make money. Can you imagine the wailing and gnashing that would go on around these parts if something similar was said?
TheMadMurph, I totally agree about Hearts.
Coming back to save a point from two goals down with ten men away from home is a result that will inspire them with confidence – quite rightly so.
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Hi Paul,
Dontbratbackinanger 12.27 :- That's a question that has always puzzled me as well, and I've seen it asked on some Rangers sites, one of the puzzles being that as late as the 70s it was a term used by Rangers fans for Celtic fans, (again without knowing the origins) if anyone has the definitive answer I'd love to hear it
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can someone spell out this pplive stuff for me? i have downloaded the player but am unsure how to use it. if i right click the icon in the bottom right hand corner it shows "channel list" which is some sort of menu - eg soccer, movies etc. if i then tick soccer and then double click the icon it fires up windows media player and then shows a game (eg barcelona). this is fine , but how do you select the game you want to watch - in our case the celtic game. there does also appear to be a program guide on the pplive website but this is in chinese.
thanks in addvance
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Paul and fellow Tims,
It's great to feel happy with the way your team is playing, isn't it? But it was only Livingston, remember. Seen the goals. Couple of real crackers, coming from flowing football.
I thnik we still need Lennon (which saddens me, to be honest) to shore up the defence for the visit of the likes of Hearts. I hope Sutton moves forward and Beattie drops down. He should let loose for the last 30 minutes or so. I can't see Hrtson getting a game until winter sets in. He can't contribute to the flowing football Strachan is seeking to employ. Are we to become the new Ajax? If we are half as good as some of their teams, I'll be delighted.
I see some are still calling for Keane and his namesake from Spurs. Here's hoping we go for neither. Robbie can't even get a game at Spurs. Zurawaski is a lot better. If we have money available for the manager come January, here's hoping he uses it to bring CLASS and not clapped out has beens.
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Lets be honest here guys, the Livingston defending on Saturday was shambolic. No way will the Hearts defence give us the same space and time, so lets not go off on one thinking we will do to Hearts what we done to Livingston. Having said that I would not bet against us, we have the momentum, the confidence, the strength in depth, it’s a home game, their goalie is suspended and so on. Lennon for Sutton and Sutton for Beattie is so obviously the right thing to do that surely it wont happen. One things for sure, the subs against Hearts will be just as interesting as the team that runs out on to the park, and hopefully just as potent.
NB Tom64, without meaning to be offensive in anyway, what was the thinking behind your 12.38 posting?
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Edwardursu:
My first recollection was Billies",and "Dans"s,Going back a bit now!
Did the term huns not come about through a Yule Brynner film at about that time re Gengis Khan,who either led or fought against the "huns".
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Looking forward to watching the game again on Celtic TV tonight. I think I counted 14 passes for the 2nd goal? I may be wrong but you are right Paul, it was VERY sweet!
Sour note though was the signing from some of the fans. From Ardrossan I believe guys? We are a club open to all. NOT only Catholics.
SB
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My best friend is a board member off a non catholic church.
He also has held a season ticket for the main stand for seventeen years and will not be chased away by Eejits . I squirm in my seat when i hear some off the refrains,although it's miles better than it used to be.
We've all got to stand together on this issue before it spreads again and besmirches the reputation, our fans have rightly achieved in recent times.
JonG
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Did any of you notice Sutton’s lack-lustre performance in the pre-match warm up on Saturday? He was at the back of his group and didn't remotely participate in what the others were doing. He is a man who is clearly unhappy with the new training regime. He even broke ranks (along with Hartson) when they upped the tempo (where they jump up and down and clash chests of each other before sprinting off)instead he went to the far corner of the penalty box and carried out stretching exercises. This reeked of contempt. What are the Celtic management going to do about this?
With that said I thought Sutton still had a very good game, he still seems focused on the park and put in a good shift, however, his petulance during training sessions must end now.
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john g-john wayne played genghis khan in a biopic.
probably one of the few historical characters whose politics didn't offend the'duke'
i have also heard the terms'cossacks'and'prussians'for the poor,misguided souls who have fallen under the spell of minas morgul
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I believe the term 'Huns' was applied to Rangers fans after a newpaper journalist associated their rampaging behaviour with the forays of Attila some centuries before. (The game escapes me - not sure if it was ECWC 1972 in Barca or some pre season friendly in England around the same time)
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Re overseas fans in far flung corners, what about subscribing to the Celtic Live channel? The games are shown live with Celtic minded commentary, instead of Joke Broon and Hately. You get some pre game build up and emails from Celtic fans around the world. And the subscription goes to Celtic.
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WGS Drops Hartson why?. BBJ as we all know has his personal problems at the moment and thats they way they should stay. Has the situation however influenced WGS ie mind on the job.
WGS dropped Bobo and he came back better and more hungrier. Dont be surprised to see BBJ back in the starting line up against the jambos. Lenny will also imo be back in the team
which brings up the question who will make way for these two. Even thompson will be in the frame that is imo a harder one to call.
WGS will have to take into account what happens over the next ten days re the internationals, injuries and tiredness may play a pat in his final team selection.
I think the team will be not far off
Boruc
telfer
balde
macmanus
camara
lennon
petrov
maloney/nakamura
sutton/thompson
Hartson
zura.
Another area that will be on wgs mind is virgo and du wei, at some point imo he will want to introduce both of them to the team on a more regular basis possibily nearer to xmas.
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We played some lovely stuff at Livi on Saturday. Nakamura and Maloney liberated to play by the graft of Sutton and Petrov.
I just can't see Hartson, Lennon & Thompson all being brought back for Hearts. Indeed, only Lennon I think will be returned - with Beattie being the sacraficial lamb.
Sutton will be paired up-front with Magic (the best option IMO).
Although seeemingly solid on Saturday I still urge caution over our full-backs. Camara had his best game for celtic purely because of Livi's lack of threat - he had the space and time to go wandering and not be punished. It won't be the same against Hearts. Also, if WGS is serious about a high tempo side, he should return Agathe at the expense of Telfer (although I think Telfer will remain unless Didier signs a new deal which looks unlikely).
For Saturday week:
Boruc
Agathe Balde McManus Camara
Nakamura Lennon Petrov Maloney
Sutton Zurawski
Telfer will retain his berth but that would be my shout.
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I can't see QGS dropping Maloney considering his performences this season; he finds passes others simply would not be able to make, doesn't waste many balls, has an excellent cross and can play in a patient build-up and instantly switch to a more direct aproach. I agree that Sutton should move in for Beattie but for some reason doubt this will happen (possibly Hartson for Beattie). Sutton, although still not the fastest player on the planet, is IMO more intelligent than Hartson on the ball as well as being more mobile his ability on the ball is better and is also strong and good in the air like Hartson. Sutton can play the type of football Strachan seems to want as well as adding a bit of muscle to the team.
Agree also with the comments about needing a midfield who can battle if needed. I think Lennon is an excellent 'battler' but not great in an attacking sense. Keane would be an improvement but he'd be 35, seems to be riddled with injury and is on MEGA wages. I still think Petrov is ideal for Lennons role but then would that be wasting some of his attacking flair?
P.S Don't slag Ghengus... apparently a 6th of us could be his descendants, talk about getting around!
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You know JAMES you could be right here.
The reference to the fans running on the pitch in 1972 rings a bell.Although its very far away.
Dontbrattbackinanger.
Got to say there are not too many Cossacks down where i live.Although i've seen a few dodgy hats all the same.
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Gavil Guy,
The Celtic Live channel is a bad joke.
Using a full T1 (1.544MBps) all to my self, I see a green & white blob passing to green & white blob.
I am not alone in seeing such a low standard of viewing.
I can only assume that the Celtic server capability is far below the standard required for a large world-wide audience.
HF
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if bob crampsey still does his'now you know'column in the evening times he may be able to shed some light on the origins of hunnery.
one of the sequelae of their behaviour in barcelona in 1972 was that the'greatest living ranger'was presented with the trophy in the dressing room toilet,rather than in the stadium itself.
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TeddyBear,
perhaps the 'h' word should be consigned to the past...
...however,
my best objective understanding was that the hun sobriquet came about after yer fellow bears gained a well-deserved reputation for causing mayhem and violence wherever they traveled during the 1960's and 1970's. Europe and England. In friendly or competition. English hack eventually likened this habitual behaviour to carnage not seen since the hun rampaged through Europe. Not sure if he referred to the hun of recent world wars or the older, more hands-on version. Luckily, but still sadly, the modern day blazered cohort in Milan were restrained to singing.
Chris
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On the matter of the term for Rangers fans, James is correct. It was an English local newspaper in the inter-war period.
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PBTL123 @ 2:38
A guy on the previous thread asked for the full wording.
I would guess that it's a hymn..not sure really..being a consigned to eternal darkness atheist myself.
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Paul,
Another very good article. I've only seen the goals on the internet as I don't have access to Setanta but you guys keep me well informed.
I think you are especialy right in saying wee Gordon has refrained from radical surgery. He tried that in Bratislava and we only leaked more goals.
He has slowly been building up team confidence, introducing his style of play and that is making a difference. You get the feeling everyone wants to play in the team whereas last year some players thought it their divine right to be in the team.
Yes I think Lenny in for CB but barring injuries I don't see any other changes.
Thought I was going to miss the Hearts game due to business commitments but managed to get back into London early on 15th, mad dash to the motor change airports and get into Glasgow for about midday so don't go changing anything for Gawd's sake.
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Hi Paul,
Thanks everyone for the answers, I normally confine myself to football matters but thought a words origin would be safe enough and so it has proved.
Tom64 3.41 :- nice to know I'm not the only one on the site :) Though as T Pratchet has often pointed out it does leave us a bit short on curse words :)
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I was told by my grandfather that the term was coined by Scottish football fans in general when during the great war many of the Rangers players were exempted conscription by being appointed to jobs on the docks and shipyards while other teams had players sent to the front line. "And if yer no wi' us, yer agin' us" he'd say. Who knows.
Edward, I would term you a blue-nose incidentally. ;)
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Paul,
With the talk of RK coming?? and if WGS wants him do you think he will have to offload some big earners to compensate RK's wages i.e sell BOBO or BBJ or god forbid STAN.
Thx to all the guys who put on links to the goals couldnt make on sat as i had to work and there is no radio so had keep up with the game by phoning home.
Lets hope all our BHOYS return safe and well and whatever team the wee man puts out we should get right behind
Does anyone know if it is gonnae be the same idea for the training day as the last time as my bhoy thought it was crap the last time cause only paul lambert came back out later to sign autographs ???Got my tickets for it anyway for me and the 2 bhoys
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Half_Fool 3:11
Your comment is seriously flawed.
Your 1.5 meg only exists between your ISP and your desktop. The problem is the size of the connection into your ISP from the outside internet. If the ISP only has a 1Gbyte connection to the net, and there are one hundred Celtic supporters on that ISP trying to get the feed, the ISP's bandwith is used up. It would be more succinct to say that your ISP's capability is far below standard required for a large world wide audience. Good news for the ISP's is that it is easy to blame the content providers. Of course the only content providers who get the blame are the ones who have a high demand for their product on an isp-wide basis.
SB
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Been a few comments today about likelihood of CB making way on the front line to allow Sutty to partner Majiec at the Hearts game and then come on with half an hour to go or so.
What about the other way round and have CB run them ragged (drain them mentally and physically) before sending Sutty on for the final 30 minutes.
Being an astute and intelligent player he could make passes and flicks for the rest and more importantly make them count against a Hearts back line that has been dragged all over CP for the previous hour.
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Paul67
I spent ages typing a post and it hasn't appeared,so your problems may still persist.
My apologies if it appears later on as some kind of duplicate post to this one.
Your post has generated several thoughts in my mind.
MON had us playing attractive winning football against much, much better sides.
Juve and Lyon spring to mind.
If we had been 6 points behind Rangers instead of Hearts then many more would be calling for Mr Strachans head.
Rangers look like qualifying from there CL group with a very average side.
Rangers demise domestically is what is keeping the moral up amongst the Celtic support.
If they qualify from there group and turn us over in the league ,then the whole climate will change.
Likewise if they fail, Eck will be on the dole by XMAS.
Mr Strachan inherited some very good players.He has spent approx £7million. I would expect a huge gulf between us and Livi.
Mr Strachan is not some kind of total football messiah.
Tommy Burns had a far better Celtic side and had to compete against a far better Rangers side.
He advocated ( as did John Barnes)the passing game.
Ask yourself Pierre or Beattie?
Cadette or Majic?
Di Canio or Maloney?
McStay or Naka?
Thom or McGeady?
Based on footballing ability, most would lump for the Tommy Burns option.
I am not advocating Tommy Burns for manager.
I am just sick of the people who seem to have forgotten what MON achieved so very quickly.
Although it is not being said outright, he is being labelled as some kind of footballing neanderthal.
I have heard all this total football nonsense before.
It has brought us nothing in the modern game.
On that front it has brought Hungary nothing in the modern game. ( food for though, for Fargo and his in the know friends)
People keep talking about Dutch football.
It's a long time since a Dutch team won anything major.
They don't win the major tropies regularly.
Real Madrid apart ,the teams that are defensively well organised ,win most of the major european honours.
Yes there are exceptions to the rule.
Lisbon ,and Barcelona spring to mind in a British context.
Mr Strachan can win me over by winning the League and competeing in the CL.
Until then, i like him agree that we have a long way to go.
What will impress me, is if he can get us to where all of us would want Celtic to be,on what is left of a now shoestring budget.
Sutton should compete with BBJ for one CF spot.
Majic with Beattie for the other.
Lennon and Petrov should play almost every week,providing they are fit and there form does not dip for a long period of time.
Naka ,Maloney,McGeady and Thomson ,should compete for the remaining midfield spots.
Bobo should play most weeks with Varga ,Du wie,Mcmanus,and fat boy slim competeing for the other slot.
Agathe ,should compete with Telfer for RB ,and the other midfield options.
Camara has very little competition, which is something we need to address.
Boruc before Marshall.
Atleast two quality full backs must be aquired to replace Telfer,Camara and Agathe as they are not quality full backs.
I have watched Virgo again in the reserves, he has looked awfull every time i've seen him .
Mr Strachan is also seems unsure about Du wei.At this point in time we do not have a quality CH to partner Bobo.
McManus is doing very well for the moment.
Lots to solve,lots of it by his own making, having spent a lot of money we still haven't solved the weak areas that we had in the summer apart from the goalkeeper.
(if he signs)
Maloney and Beattie have surpassed most peoples expectations.
Naka and Majic have shown promise.
We must win the league, anything else will constitue failure.
Talk of total football is cheap,winning on the big stage is what counts.
If Mr Strachan can bring that to Celtic park, as MON did ,and with total football being played, then i will thank him for eternity.
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Paul67,
I found this interesting piece, on JohnBhoy's excellent Blog.
It appeared there, in a reply to John's summation of the recent Falkirk game.
It was submitted by the industrious, Miss Pennypacker!
With your anticipated approval, I will offer an excerpt from that piece.
"I am informed by an unimpeachable source.....that a certain Celtic Performer,whose name happens to rhyme with, Button........
is a very Fiery Nettle in the Garden of Mr. Strachan.
A Caviler and a Quibbler of the First Water is he of the soubriquet,Button.
Not Good!
His future in the Garden of Paradise, will become shorn, around the time that Janus will Gaze and Gaze.
Farrago.
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Thanks to all the Lhads for the game comments, great job, can't wait to see the game (Wed or Thur - Gag).
EdwardUrsu - Re: Huns, your less well behaved colleagues have been Huns as long as I remember, and that pre-dates the riots and mayhem of Barcelona, QPR, Chelsea and other less exotic parts of Eng-er-land.
I remember one occasion when a Rangers sympathiser from Bangor N.I. referred to me as a "Hun" (he didn't know why)and was astonished when he got re-educated, he couldn't believe that the Celtic support actually look DOWN on our fellow Scots/En-ger-land wannabe's, and despise their behaviour.
Hopefully peepul (sorry) like yourself and our other friend at Broxibears can change things down Ibrox way, (might take a century or two).
Read the Hearts match report, see that Pressley received a "dead leg" then scored two goals and is now doubtfull for Scotlands WC games, who does he think he is - Barry FergusHun.
Up the TIC!
Oregonbhoy
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EYBHOY68, I am assured that Stan is not for sale. As for the rest, if they do not fit in the managers plans I would expect him to want to move them on. I have no info whatsoever on the Man Utd player.
TT, thanks for the note on the trouble you had posting. We also note your reluctance regarding "Mr Strachan", however, we are pleased you no longer site personal reasons for this, and are expressing a purely objective opinion.
Welcome Farrago, always good to hear from a new acquaintance. I have also heard of ‘trouble at ‘mill’ as the English stereotype might say.
Suffer truculence at your peril, before you know it there will be a mutiny, no matter what your rank Admiral.
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imo the starting 11 against Livi deserve the chance to play against Hearts if they all come through the internationals. It might only have been Livi but I have watched the match on Channel 67 and they played some excellent football, they need to be given the chance to show it was their football and not the inferior opposition.We look a much better balanced side without Lennon and Hartson, these players still have a role but maybe it is coming on from the bench if things aren't going to plan.
I wasn't sure about Gordons appointment and certainly never liked the Camera signing but I am big enough to admit that both are starting to excell in their roles.
Onwards and upwards
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I see on the official club website MC makes a staement to the media that it is great to "Rangers Celtic and Hearts" competing for the league.IMO our players should be told that Celtic are not second to Rangers in some sort of pecking order, and when talking about leagues always mention Celtic first. This may have been an unconscious error by MC but I see it often repeated on TV Radio and in the papers when I used to buy them, so IMO sends out a subliminal message that we are second to them.Never have been ,never will be.
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To go back to the article at the top I fail to see how Jorge Cadete would have been a worse option than Brattbakk/Jackson in any team.
Well done the Bhoys on Saturday ,and how did those generous bookies manage to price McManus at 33/1 for the first goal after hitting the bar in his previous 2 games?
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tinytim there is very much indeed to commend your post the vast majority of which I agreed with.
I think it is far too early to talk of anything yet, especially as we had in the last two home games to go extra time against Falkirk and having to take the ball into the corner against ICT in the last few minutes to waste time. Yes we created plenty of chances against these teams but the point is we only won by the narrowest of margins against teams we should be able to have little difficulty with.
We played very well at the start against Hibs but struggled to hold on to the win at the end.
Really good teams would play and score all of them off the park.
Yes I am totally delighted about these wins but we can’t talk of total football. I am always happy to see us win any game, the more so trophies, as in the 46 years I have been a Celt we have lost more trophies than we have won and that is what makes me a very greedy Celtic supporter.
I am happy only with victory, the more we win the happier I am because I remember the losing, I remember the losing esp. to Rangers and how it hurt, that is what makes the winning all the sweeter. As yet this season we have won nothing.
What gets to me is we should have put Rangers to bed a long time ago we have let the `poorest’ Rangers team in my memory off far too often. We have let an incapable manager and culpable chairman off the hook.
tinytim I am sad to say that that I have watched football for the last 41 years and can still say I don’t fully understand it, perhaps that is one of the reason I am still in love with the game.
Johan Cruyff said there were only three people in the world who he would talk to about total football one being a fellow Dutchman and former Celtic manager, I am disapointed to say I am not one of the other two.
What I will say though is that while Dutch teams have won very little in the recent past their players still command first team football in the best teams in the world.
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Maybe a tad childish, but why is stan promoting his book in the s***** m***. Do these players have no shame, or is money their only concern!
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Tiny Tim - Feyenoord won the UEFA cup in 2002, not long ago.
With regards to your point about MON, it´s not so much not appreciating what he did but that there is a need to shed our skin, because we have suffered a lot in recent times.
However I think that anything Strachan achieves will be on the back of what MON built. O´Neill put Celtic back up where they belong.
I´m sure that most Celtic fans would choose McStay over Naka at this stage. McStay is in the best eleven of all time!!
With regards to the others the jury is out. The only thing I would say is that, thanks to MON, nowadays Celtic are able to hold onto their players for longer, so I expect Beattie and Maloney will stay at the club longer than Cadette or Di Canio. Not that long ago the club couldn´t hold onto the likes of Pierre or Viduka, thankfully that is no longer the case.
On another note just to say that Larsson has been playing his part in the Barcelona side these last days coming on in second half. Maybe the reason he doesn´t play more is because he is not signed up to Nike or Adidas and there is no room for another like Ronaldhino. The Barcelona fans love him. He was out of half of last season, injured when he was taken off during the Barça - Real Madrid match. He was taken off after having played no small part in his side being 3-0 up at the time , he had passed the acid test in the big game in Spain. Larsson´s success, like that of Bellamy and Henri Camara is important for Celtic. They left the club on relatively good terms and that has not always been the case. Even Juninho didn´t go ballistic when he left and he was a world cup winner. Hopefully NO ONE is bigger than Celtic now.
Strachan has the conditions to make a success of it. MON has set the foundations and raised the expectations. Strachan has the credentials and as an ex-Hibbee he has another extra motivation to get the better of Hearts.
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one of the strengths of any manager must be the ability to match the style of play to the personnel available,which is probably the main reason that greece won euro2004.
if injury hadn't robbed wim janssen of paul mcstay we would have had the chance to see him play with henke in 1997-8 and the league that year may have been won with more flair,although i seem to recall it still felt pretty good to end the misery of the previous years
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Totally agree dessybhoy. It has to be Celtic and Rangers. It should trip off the tongue in a natural order, like Lennon and McCartney.
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Tinytim...
I agree with everything you have written.
The time to pronounce even progress is being made is some far way off.
My assertation is - so far this season, every seroius challenge has produced failure. Artmedia & Rangers. Enough said. I'm prepared to go down the road of not speaking ill of the manager, and giving him time, but like you I'm against this revisionist history of Celtic under Martin O'Neill.
Paul67...
I know it was only Livingston, but was that the sweetest football Celtic have played in years?
Well, since last season anyway -
12-03-2005 (Home) Celtic 6 Dumfermline 0. As convincing a demolition job as you will see.
13-04-2005 (Away) Celtic 4 Livingston 0. Not bad for a team that had supposedly collapsed.
Or, going back a little (in the same season)
21-09-2004 (Home) Celtic 8 Falkirk 0.
More comment has been made on Celtic Quick News about John Hartson than any other player. At fifteen stone he appears languid and heavy; slow to get forward and slower to get back.
Surely not the same John Hartson that was reborn under Gordon Strachans' super soaraway training regimen? Sorry for the sarcasm, but when Magic has offered as much as Hartson then it might be time for talk of selling him. I'm not a fan of Hartson per se, but considering his contributions there is a long way to go before we should think of selling him.
He has talked about not being sure he has the personnel to play the kind of football he wants to. As recently as Friday, he said we were a long way from being the finished article.
I've asked this question before, but I'll ask it again. How much money should we throw at our manager? We were the 8th highest spenders in Europe. How far can too far go? (To paraphrase The Cramps) If spending enough to get us into such exhalted company as the top 10 is not enough then I fear for our club. For this sum I would have expected a lot more than we have recieved given the (supposedly) temporary nature of Camara and Telfer.
I was pleasantly surprised with the performance. Yes it was good. Yes it is encouraging, but it is nothing more than that. And denigrating the achievements of Martin O'Neill to justify the new manager is distastful. This is the time for strong stomachs and level heads. Getting carried away is as bad as remaining unremittingly negative.
/p
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Cant believe radio clyde have the guy who insulted Jock Stein on, promoting HIS book. What a total DISGRACE!!!Why now?
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Interesting posts abo |
