 Wednesday, December 28, 2005
Celtic traditions torn asunder
I received the following letter this week:
Hello Paul,
As a long term admirer of your site, I felt I had to email you with an
experience I had during today’s (Boxing Day) match between Celtic and
Livingston.
Firstly, let me state my credentials, I am a 23 year old Celtic fan, first
game aged 5 (v Dunfermline), started attending regularly shortly thereafter,
season book holder for 11 years, been to home and away matches, Seville, etc, and as for merchandise etc, let’s just say I have the lot.
These past two seasons however, I have become disillusioned by the support
at Celtic park, which culminated in today’s game. I've, as I suspect you have
also, seen some pretty poor Celtic teams and Celtic players, and I think
that this particular one is nowhere near the bottom of the pile. Standing in
the jungle however, there was a certain code of conduct adhered to amongst
supporters, and I truly don’t remember ever hearing an individual being
booed, audibly by a large section of the fans, as Bobo Balde was today,
(perhaps an exception being made for Liam Miller, who was an exceptional
case). Other readers may be able to correct me, and if so, I stand corrected.
There is a current atmosphere inside Celtic Park, where it appears to me
many people sit on their hands when the team is playing well, only to turn
on them at the slightest mistake. This can be seen with regards to Balde
today, but also any number of other players, and indeed the whole team. It
is as if some people only enjoy the game when the team is playing poorly.
During today’s game, at 1-1, Aiden McGeady attempted a difficult pass. Whilst
I feel Aiden did not play his best today, I attempted to 'get behind the
team' (as I believe a supporter is supposed to do) by shouting some
encouragement 'unlucky, chin up' etc etc. I did this loudly, trying to drown
out some of the catcalls and abuse being dished out by those around me. So
basically, I was trying to get behind the team, encourage the player, and
drown out the moaners. Because of this, two middle-aged men, apparently
respectable, turned round and gave me a mouthful of abuse. I won’t be a
hypocrite and say I was offended by the language used, but it was choice. I
replied (aggressively) that I was 'trying to support the team' (I may have
sworn, I honestly don’t remember but it’s more than a possibility) when the
reply came 'I’m not here to support this p**h'.
I have been to embarrassing defeats and lost cup finals (v Raith for a
particularly humiliating example) but never have I been so sickened at a
football match. I don’t think that there is necessarily something special
about Celtic, I used to remember making fun of the Rangers fans who wouldn’t cheer when Hately Scored or called Mo Johnstone 'No 10' or used to boo the
team and leave 10 mins early. But after seeing Celtic fans refuse to
celebrate a goal because of the scorer, or leaving with ten mins to go of a
rangers game (3-0 up), I can’t see how we're better.
Anyway, this season will be my last as a season book holder, perhaps even a
Celtic supporter. I’d like to attend away games, where the fans still get
behind the team and there is a feeling of unity, but after today I don’t know
if it’s worth the hassle. I do not want to have to proscribe to a particular
philosophy or ideology to be a Celtic fan. I don’t want to have to be 'left
of centre' politically or anything else. I just want to support a football
team. Unfortunately, today at Celtic Park, I received abuse for doing so.
I’m sorry for the rant, and its length, I respect your site and the work you
do for the club, and I wish you success. If you feel it is useful to use
this letter on your site then please do so, although I would like to remain
anonymous for my own reasons.
Best Wishes and good luck with celticquicknews. And may God bless you and
your family.
Regards,
[Name Provided]
I was in a different seat on Tuesday, taking my three-year-old to see Celtic for the first time. There was a man in his fifties, several row behind me, who repeatedly shouted “Jesus F***” at the top of his voice, possibly offending over 100 people within earshot.
When Balde made his mistake, this ‘Celtic fan’ cursed our manager with the most unbelievable terms for selecting Balde in the first place.
“Jesus F***”, at the club of Walfrid, McGrory, Thompson and Stein. What would we call him if he was at Ibrox?
I do not know how to fix this one. The club alone cannot fix it, though they could coordinate a wider effort.
If we are complacent, our claim to be different, will soon be drowned out with the kind of bile that would have Br. Walfrid wonder what he had created.
345 Comments:
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drat
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Hang on…………………….
if Chairbhoy……………
Deleted his comments……………………
Then I am first………………..
joeisLuvinit……………………
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Thanks for sharing this, Paul. I hope it will make some difference. Life won’t be the same if Celtic becomes just a football club.
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in recent times -
the booing of the bunnet
the booing of quinn
the booing of balde
but how long has it been going on ?
can i take it jim melrose was booed hence his v sign to the fans ?
but have to agree, there are many of the support at cp who are a total disgrace.
the "i've paid so i'll boo if i want to" can go and take a f*** to themselves. seriously.
the folk around them have paid also and their booing will not improve the performance of the players they are targetting.
moans and groans and expletives - fair enough but prolonged boos - not at cp.
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leggenda di canio - thought about changing your username yet ;-)
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I can sympathise with you all. I am no fan of Bobo but as long as he wears the Hoops we should support him.
This booing isn't new though. Last season against Dundee the game was still at 0-0 at half-time and the players were booed off the park
I can only guess that watching Celtic for these 'fans' is either just a pastime or getting in the way of pub time.
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I was also at the game and heard some booing straight after Bobo's booboo but also heard lots of encouragement a few minutes later when he was on the ball. The problem is the vocal minority. One guy bawling affects hundreds who are in earshot.
But there is a general lack of atmosphere at CP these days and the collective groans when errors are made normally outnumber the cheers.
People shouting abuse would be arrested in the street and it should be no different in a football ground, but with the refs we have, the cells would be burstin'
I think the club should send stewards through the ground at random to warn the persistent offenders. I'm sure the vast majority would support this and help them out.
No easy answers.
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It's a sad day when the people who have Celtic in their blood feel its time to hang up their seasons tickets due to these impatient foul mouthed voyeurs who call themselves 'supporters' and are buying season tickets these days.
I just don't understand why they are there? Why do they bother turning up for the 70 minutes that they usually there for.
I was on another site earlier and have heard a few reports now of fans being abused by these morons for trying to get behind the team !!!
Maybe as well as a singing section we could get these monkeys a booing section, behind soundproofed glass
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I'm really not sure what can be done on this one. Where I sit (LL lower, section 114)the "awe, FFS" brigade seem to be in the majority.
For example, there was some steamin' bam two rows behind me on Boxing Day who did nothing but shout abuse all game long. (My temptation to say anything to him was quickly resisted when I spotted the fresh chib mark on his cheek).
Standing up to these guys is all well and good, but is it worth a rammy??
I suppose the rest of us just need to shout our encouragement even louder, but undoubtedly, this is a poor state of affairs.
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spikeysAuldMan: yes.
I'm thinking Bastardo Di Canio
I’m very disappointed. :(
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Richie, I agree that you could be arrested in the street for some of the stuff these guys come out with.
We cant go PC mad and ban swearing , but i would be absolutely delighted if the stewarts started ejecting those who spout vile expletive filled hatred at players on the park.
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richie - the arrests used to happen
my bro was arrested for expletives aimed at mojo - when he played for the tic - he was still at school, never been in trouble wi polis, good pupil etc, etc
ended up doing a weekender
solicitor, pf, et al couldnt understand why he was in court
then again from previous experiences of polis at motherwell - wasnt totally surprised.
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no bread no cakes - "ya lazy bast***", "what the f***", etc should be tolerated but not when it comes to racism, sectarianism( unless its the ref ;-)) and the likes.
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Living in London, I don't get the chance to make it up to many games and when I do (usually with my brothers and my old man) it seems like even more of a special occasion.
There has been a longer gap than usual from my last game as I have been thoroughly dissapointed with a vast quantity of the supporters. In fact, I can't even call them 'supporters', more like 'detractors'.
My brother and I took his 6 year old nephew to the Fulham pre-season game in the summer (we have managed to convert him to being a Celtic supporter despite both his parents being Italian and avid italian football supporters) and the atmosphere was electric and "the best day ever" according to my brothers nephew.
We had been talking about taking him to CP to see a proper game but now think it is not appropriate for a child of his age.
Being around Italian and Scottish family he is used to the odd expletive every now and again, so it is not this we are worred about, it is the venom from the toothless hordes that vilify every missed pass or shot. And lets be honest, the racist and bigoted chants from our own supposed fans.
Celtic as a family is above this type of behaviour. Unfortunately, however, we have a bit of weeding out to be done.
The away fans exel themselves at every game I have been too and hats off to all of them. FIFA and UEFA have correctly recognised them.
My guess is the same people that are the subject of this thread are the same ones that leave with 10 minutes left each match! Good riddance.
Guigsy
(sorry for the long rant - had to get it off my chest).
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All that is needed for evil to flourish is for men of goodwill to do nothing..
I also sit in 114 and the only thing which seems to interest the stewards is if someone lights up a fag.
Unfortunately if the decent fans don't renew their season tickets it means the problem may become harder to solve.
Unfortunately we live in a society where a significant group of people know'their rights' but don't seem to care about 'their responsibilities'
Jock Stein once said that the jersey doesn't shrink to fit lesser players-well that goes the same for the scarf and the replica top.
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Paul,
This is sad, very, very, sad. Young guys such as this are the lifeblood of Celtic in the future. Without the fans, there will be no Celtic.
For him to be treated in this manner is disgraceful.
When I was (a good bit) younger, mid-70's through til early-80's, I was fortunate enough to live in Glasgow and to be a regular at Celtic Park.
I was lucky enough to see KD in his final season, Danny McGrain, Johnny Doyle, Davie Provan, et al, and even met the Great Man himself.
The days of The Jungle were magical days, days when "ten men won the league".
I remember one time against (I think) St.Mirren, when I wasn't in a good mood (college problems), and so wasn't singing as I should have been - I was accused of being a hun!!
Changed days indeed.
I am now back in the NE of Scotland, but am no less vociferous on the odd occasion when I can get to a game. Sounds as though some of RK's "prawn sandwich" brigade have now infiltrated the support at CP.
Please pass on my thoughts to this young man. Tell him never to give up, that to support Celtic is to be part of a huge family. Every family has it's black sheep, but they are greatly outnumbered by the genuine supporters, the real fans who shall never give up on their team and their fellow Celtic fans.
Tell him to Keep The Faith.
Hail! Hail!
Curly
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It would be a shame if this fan didn't return as a result of this, the way things are going we need all the good guys we can get. I was disgusted by the booing the other day, it seemed to come from the Lisbon Lions/North Stand corner but thankfully didn't spread, which suggests to me that it was a very vocal minority.
It was also different to the 'booing' of Lennon a couple of seasons ago. In that case I don't believe there was actually any booing involved, just an out-pouring of frustration during a tense European match. What happened on boxing day was different and should not happen at Celtic Park.
So come on Bhoys, lets get behind the team and drown out the glory hunters with more positive chants.
Hail Hail
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Like others i have become more and more sickened by these so called "supporters".The thing that i notice is they dont enjoy the game no matter the result, so why do they go? I agree there is no easy answer,maybe a song about them would make them keep their heads down.We MUST claim paradise back from these people.
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The booing of McCann was the worst for me. I came very close to walking out of the ground that day- the day the man who saved us and the wife of our greatest ever manager, unveiled the first league flag in a decade.
I was mid twenties at the time and I realised then that unfortunately we were no longer a "different" club, just an historically important one with a lot of fans, many of whom I would consciously cross the road to avoid.
Sad but true.
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Are these guys supporters? are they dyed in the wool, brought up in Celtic daft families or are they people looking for a football club to support and ended up at Celtic ??
Are there any boo boys who visit this site would like to give an insight into why you abuse our own ??
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A disheartening thread but I'd like to throw in some points for consideration.
There are now almost 60,000 punters at every single game, not just big games, and has been since the new stadium was complete. This has never been the case in Celtic's history, or certainly post war.
Season tickets and general costs of attending the match nave never been so high.
We've never before been asked to back this up with substantial additional money for shares.
Since Celtic's resurgence under Fergus Scottish football has never before been so 'unfair' in terms of financial muscle and therefore the playing field so 'un-level'.
We've never been so frustrated by having our hands tied and being unable to break out of this situation or help ourselves.
All of these things (without going anywhere near sociological movements) mean that we have unearthed glory hunters, we have punters who resent the costs of watching such poor fair from our own team, we have punters who thoroughly expect to give almost every other team in the league a doing and we have punters who go along to be entertained first and foremost as opposed to go along to give even more to the club (in terms of 'support') that has already taken such considerable amounts in finance and time.
Time for some pragmatism. If the offenders in question are breaching social behaviour codes then report them to a steward or policeman.
Join the campaign for a singing section.
Write to Aiden McGeady or Stephen McManus or Ross Wallace and tell them that you're behind them 100%. Write to Paul Telfer or Bobo and tell them the same if you like.
Apply for a change in seat. I did it after we won the league under Wim Jansen when the guy behind me insisted on abusing Simon Donnelly for not being a Catholic and have been much happier since.
Report offenders, change your seat, seak alternatives from the wealth of wisdom of CQN posters, but do not, not, not remove your 'support' for our club. It's your club, not theirs, fight for it. If you don't we face a far bleaker future than we would under a Glazer or a Romanov. We'd be like a club under Murray.
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they've paid, they have a right to, they are dissatisfied customers, blah, blah, blah
just another product of the fast-food society - thatcher's children indeed - but how do the middle aged explain themselves ?
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There will be few dissenting voices on CQN over the so-called fans reaction.
Very few people will not groan or even use expletives if things are not going well and I remember as a boy in the 70s the team being regularly booed off at half time if we were not winning.
Maybe at that time, as this, winning is seen as a right. This should be left to TFOD. It is a privelege to support Celtic and encouragement to the team should always be to the fore. Unfortunetly the 70 minuters are here to stay and the only solution is for the fair minded support to get behind the team.
P67 encourage your correspondent not to give up the good fight. We have enough enemies outwith we should stand up to those within.
Slightly off subject it does appear most of the problem fans have taken an excess of libation and perhaps it would be good to oppose proposals to let alcohol be sold in grounds again (speaking as someone who enjoys a couple before the game, rather than a killjoy).
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never ceases to amaze me - the fact that you used to able to troop along and into the game with a carry-out. the mind boggles.
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1. Such behaviour is appalling, but..... how can "Name and address supplied" contemplate giving up being a Celtic supporter because of two clowns? Is that how much the club means to him?
2. Fans have to be more pro-active with idiots who come out with abusive language. Take a note of their seat number and report them to the club.
3. Stewards have to do more than just stand about. They should be issuing warnings and, if things don't improve, these galoots should be removed from the stadium, with the threat of having their season ticket withdrawn?
4. Can the club print a very large warning in the next match programme?
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BigJoe - It's yours
I removed my comment's as it wasn't in the spirit of this Post -
More relevent Post:
Being a family man living in the home counties, I unfortunetley don't get the opportunity to attend Celtic Park these days, so can't really comment on fans current behavior.
My experience as a bhoy was there was a cordial (enjoyable atmosphere)there was some very vocal critism and colourfull langage but the support was terrific. The fact is venting one's spleen is what football is about.
The first big game I went to in England I said to my friend where's the ground - Highbury was right in front of us not a sound, couldn't beleive it - loved walking through the Parkhead tenements the noise growing louder and louder as you appraoched Paradise and absolutely deafening inside the ground.
Took my eldest to his first game at CP when he was eight vs Dundee United (Mark Burchill's debut - made one and scored the winner 2-1)
There was still a lot of swearing, you tend to ignore this until you have a child with you.
There was a minutes silence for the Omagh Bomb, which was disturbed by a few idiots.
But the harshed critism even though from memory we were one nil down for most of the match was "ye couldnea tackle a fish supper", the wee man laughed like a drain and this was the high point of his day. (If Mark had become the player we thought he'd be maybe he would have had an even better memory.)
I have sympathy for the young man but don't go along with this PARADISE LOST senario. I would love the opportunity to be there week in week out - apparently no more pies and bovril but some very nice prawn sandwiches.
BTW - never ever went in the jungle but from memory it wasn't that big, how come in the 60's, 70's and 80's there was 60,000 fhans there week in week out??
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Hi Paul,
I hope you and your family had a very merry Christmas and all went well for you.
I feel one of the problems with this thread is there are actually two different issues, the issue of booing, and the issue of constant criticism. On booing, I think it's a legitimate form of protest open to fans, it hurts to boo your team, I know this from recent experience, but there has to be a way for the crowd to show displeasure at what it considers to be unacceptable playing, whether it be from lack of skill, tactics or effort, I would add the caveat that it shouldn't be applied to individual players except in extreme circumstances. The type of supporter your letter writer was talking about is a different breed, those who attend games for no other reason than to moan and complain aren't true fans, if asked they probably couldn't tell what formation the team is playing, or what the score was a fortnight ago. However they seem to take some perverse pleasure in constantly running down their own players, manager, team, taste of pies or anything else that can be found and as has been pointed out can react in a very aggressive manner when questioned. I don't know the answer to this and the only solution tiny though it is that I can think on is to let others round you know that you prefer to support the team in a positive manner and if it doesn't compromise your safety report any socially objectionable comments to stewards or police.
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From the previous thread, why is Kevtic having a go at Tommy Burns for bringing "leprechauns" through the youth system. Would he raher that Maloney, McGeady and McGlinchey had signed for Rangers? And Simon Ferry is the best young midfielder in the country - would he rather we didn't sign him either?
As for the rest of the youth players, I can assure him that Craig Reid, Scott Cuthbert, Darren O'Dea, Charlie Mulgrew, Jim O'Brien, Teddy Bjarnason, Ryan Conroy and Diarmuid O'Carroll are all great prospects - and big lads.
Let's not just moan for the sake of it, eh?
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I have felt since the new Parkhead was completed that the atmosphere has been badly diluted. To go from a hardcore of 20-25000 at Hampden to a stadium of 60000 clearly shows that 30-35000 people who couldn't make it the previous season were now turning up.
Obviously not all just didn't bother showing up the season before when the team needed it, but a big majority of these fans certainly fall into this category.
I feel this is the crux of the problem. A lot of these fans were fortunate enough to have seen the Lions and nine in a row but drifted away towards the end of that time like so many others and become armchair fans. I can recall personally being told "I don't know why you bother watching that cr*p" by one of these so called fans in the early nineties. These guys are usually in the late 40s to early 60s age group, have already proven by their 70's desertion that they are anything but 'faithfull through and through' and DEMAND to be entertained.
By and large these were the guys who booed Gordon Marshall, Fergus McCann, Brian Quinn, and these are the guys who are nowhere to be seen when we play pre season friendlies and were conspicuous by their absence at the beginning of the season.
Please don't get me wrong, I am not trying to say everyone from that age band falls into that category, far from it, I know there are more than a few good Tims on this board who are worth their weight in gold.
I suppose to double your stadium capacity you are going to attract Johnny-Come-Latelies and Fairweather fans who won't stand up to be counted when the team need it the most. Now after 10 years with people they have fully diluted the old hardcore, and there is nowhere in the stadium that has the proper 'concentration' required to galvanise the rest of the support. This is why I would fully endorse the mooted singing section.
I sympathise with the sickened fan, and I would imagine a number of us have been through this. I would hope he would be heartened by the messages of encouragement displayed here on CQN. The boos for Bobo were drowned out very quickly by applause, so at least we know they are a minority. Hopefully the singing section will counteract them once and for all
Wild Monty Belafonte
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Guys,
I was at the Livy game and treated the family to lunch and works at the Number 7 restaurant. I am not a great fan of corporate hospitality at the best of times as you do get a lot of people who believe that a free bar means you have to order 3 drinks at a time and get blootered. Two such fans were sitting in front of me and when they used offensive language a lady in front objected. She was told to **** off. So she got up, reported it and the steward through them out, easy.
I do think though, that it would be very naive to attend a football game in a city like Glasgow and not expect to hear some bad language. Also people giving up their season book because some old eejit swear's at you is somewhat extreme, if you are that keen a supporter you would stay or move seat.
Also, last time I looked Blasphemy was not a hanging offence. Many of us are not religious and it is no more or less offensive than any other bad language.
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I posted on this at 8.35 last night, I believe we now have many spoilt brat fans. I think it has much to do with modern, must have, consumerism type attitudes. Instant gratification over nurtured reward. For the Willy Wonka fans "I waaaant a squirrel" attitude.
I am in the north stand upper (though lower half) a guy a few rows behind and to the side booed Bobo and the 20 or so guys immediately around him turned on him, This verbal onslaught kept him quiet, but could easily have ignited into a rammy.
That said, with a support of 60,000, which is more than the population of towns the size of Dunfermline, Greenock, Hamilton and Ayr, there are always going to be bad neighbours.
Can we issue ASBO's at Celtic park?
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Not been on for a few weeks. The old man passed away on the 19th so as you can imagine it`s not been easy.
Have still been reading now and again just not been able to contribute or i should say not felt like it.
I`m sure i will be back shortly with all guns blazing.
For now i`d like to take this opportunity to wish everybody well for the new year, especially the lad who wrote to paul,don`t let the b******* grind you down, let CELTIC keep your spirits high, the good far outnumber the bad.
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edwardursus -
"On booing, I think it's a legitimate form of protest open to fans, it hurts to boo your team, I know this from recent experience, but there has to be a way for the crowd to show displeasure at what it considers to be unacceptable playing, whether it be from lack of skill, tactics or effort, I would add the caveat that it shouldn't be applied to individual players except in extreme circumstances."
thats the difference between traditional celtic fans and rangers fans. traditionally, celtic fans dont boo, just as your lot before this season would have said no to demos in the car park.
i can see no point in booing during a match. I can understand and alsmost condone it at 90 mins give or take the odd 3-5 mins of injury time ;-)
what good does to do during a match tho ? do those who have to suffer from passive booing not have rights ;-)
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vinniethedog - all the best - you'll get there
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Spikeysauldman :- My apoligies, I meant as you say booing at the end of the game and not during the 90 minutes.
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ed - didnt take you for a "during the game booer" - given the jist of your usual posts - and no apologies required ;-)
all the best
right i'm away to the gym.
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Hi all
My own belief is that the supporters are only reacting to what they see, dont necessarily agree with booing your own but the fans are getting frustrated by what I see as the manager ignoring problems with personnel and formations.
How come he could not see McGeady was having a mare and make a change, he has persevered and thats what it is with RW as a left back, it not going to work out, the left side of our team midfield and defence is too weak with these players.
Telfer is an automatic selection IMO is one paced military/medium cant tackle and at times is poorly positioned.Stan is off form possibly carrying an injury, NL is back to square or backward passing,JH if the ball does not stick does not work much to get the ball back.
IMO all of these problems cause the problems with the centre of defence.
I did ask Scotsport by e-mail to show the first penalty incident, hadn't even the decency to make it worthy of a mention.More concerned about getting Wishart's it wasn't a penalty from him, look again no doubt about,how any reasonable pundit can say otherwise is beyond me.The problem is the Greek has been doing this since he came here as yet the MIB have not penalised him, until St. Stephen's Day.
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Bhoydell
I agree with your post generally but I think you then miss your own point entirely at the end when you say "Many of us are not religious and it is no more or less offensive than any other bad language" because while you are entitled to this view, to many of us this is the most objectionable language violation of all.
Perhaps in the same way the 'c' word is abhorrent to the ladies, any use of 'Jesus' amongst a volley of expletives is equally abhorrent to some of the rest of us.
I guess it just reiterates what many have said, that while it would be naive to expect anything less than choice language at the football, acceptable social behaviour is not left at the turnstile and an awareness of those around you would help.
On an entirely different note I'm delighted to see occasional poster GaryMcN not only top the CQN fantasy football table in the Herald but also hold 12th position overall. If he wins the £10k he has promised me an away trip to see the 'tic in next season's CL. Come on!
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Excellent post Paul67 - and very well timed.
Without doubt since Fergus saved us in the 90's we have unearthed two types of unwanted fan.
1. The psychotic - foaming at the mouth – chibbed scumbag that only derides the team.
2. The silent nobody
There are more of these fans than you think.
I do sometimes laugh that we think that we have the best fans in the world. We have the same cross-section of idiots, and prawn sandwich munching mutes as anywhere else.
I know that I am going to take a pounding for this, however I think that we used to have the best fans in the world. Not any more. When things were bad, and the team were not playing well, or went one down – the crowd got behind the team, and embodied the twelfth man principal. Parkhead is simply not as intimidating as it used to be at home in the league. We only see this in Europe now.
Please note that the away support still show the home support how to actually get behind the team. They, IMO are still the greatest fans in the world. These fans make a bigger investment in time and money travelling to Aberdeen, Inverness etc, yet if Celtic do go one down they support their team.
The solution, do not take matters into our own hands and challenge these mugs. Sing your heart out for the full ninety minutes, and if anyone breaks the law, then let the stewards know.
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A depressing topic but one that has been bubbling under the surface for a while now. I was at my first game since October on Boxing Day. For various reasons I don't get to Parkhead as much as I'd like to.
Anyway- A conversation from last season that made me consider what it means to support Celtic. I can remember it as clearly as if it was yesterday. Against Hibs at the end of last season when we got beat 3-1 at Parkhead.
Ned1: This is SH*** Celtic. (Insert any players name in here) you're f***in crap! Git him aff!
Ned 2: aye. well said. gies a fag.
Ned 1: sectarian chant (laughs then eyeballs me because I wont join in)
Ned 2: (to the field of play)Cripple that orange bast*rd!
Celtic get possession of the ball for a short spell. After being thoroughly outplayed by Hibs, at last they look like they are in control and showing a wee bit of composure by passing the ball about.
Ned 1: Punt it up the park ya c***! Fuc**ake man! DAE SOMEHIN WAE IT!
My friend: hes just keepin a haud ae the ball til there's movement up front.
Ned 1: who the f*** asked you?
Older ned: You tell im son. You sit here every week, dont listen ti him. (turning to my friend) He peys his money he can shout whit he wants.
***end of CQN excursion into transcripts***
You get the picture. I think the problem is encapsulated in that last sentence. "He's paid eez money." I'm sorry but that is the most twisted logic I have ever heard regarding supporting a team. Its ok to say that when you are taking a fridge back to Currys because it doesnt work properly. Its okay to say that when you are annoyed at the service in a restaurant. It does not compute when you are talking about the team you support. If going to see Celtic is just another leisure activity (where the only apparent concern is statutory rights) then it is like a brand preference choice and you may as well pick Rangers as Celtic (well thats the logical conclusion). Supporting the team means doing so through thick and thin.
I dont contribute as much cash as others to the club but I will always support it in whatever way I can. I hope to go to more games and can only hope that the atmosphere improves.
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This is my first year I have not been a season ticket holder for some significant time as I moved abroad. I gave my ticket to a mate for him to look after until such time I return. As I was home for Christmas, I was fortunate enough to get a ticket for the Livi from a mate who, as (un)luck would have it was having to work.
As I took my seat, I cursed my luck that I had the seat next to what only could be described as the lowest form of scum that I have ever met. His first words? "Ahm smashed oot ma nut big man" Second words? "Lets get into these Orange B's" - but he wasn't so polite and used the full word! From then on it was song after song about British Soldiers, Kinky Boots and a Provisional Old Man. In between songs, he screamed various expletives and degogatory remarks, some aimed at Bobo and Naka. Don't need to be a genius to work out what he was shouting. The Stewards stood and watched. They must've heard him as it was relatively quiet, everyone was seated and he was standing, screaming and singing at the top of his voice. The guy in front had brought his son to the game as a Christmas present. They got up and left. Or moved, I hope.
What made matters worse, was the guy sitting to the right of me said that he was always like this - every game. How!?
I wasn't impressed and I told my mate that I was grateful for the ticket, but next time I'll take someone elses. And my mate completely understood. I didn't enjoy the game at all. Not because of what happened on the pitch, but because of what was happening beside me. It left me sick, angry and gutted. I don't want to be accused of Celtic-Fan-Bashing, but this guy was scum. A guy from central Scotland singing about things he has no idea about and shouting expletives that were more than what would be acceptable in a Quentin Tarrantino movie. And I very much doubt it was an isolated incident.
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Vinniethedog
My heart felt sympathy to yourself and your family.
Bye the way I do not condone what happened to that boy in anyway, but hand on heart who has not got carried away at the football in their life, if its persistant it requires the club stewards to deal with this.
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BlantyreKev,
The point I was making on Blasphemy is that we at Celtic go out of our way to push our "non religious" credentials, so we can't have it both ways. However, I do agree that any offensive language isn't acceptable but we have to be realistic that throwing (note the correct spelling this time!) out everyone who swore at a Celtic game would be pretty draconian.
Waynebiggins I am of the opinion that the great away support has a large number of fans who portray the other great issue at Celtic, the IRA chanters. They do support the team very well and I go away often myself but the terracing terrorists are in abundance and its embarrassing to be associated with them, particularly when my 14 year old lad is with me.
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Having watched Celtic for nearly 40 years i would say that the number of guys who boo has not increased since the 60's.
What has happened is that the vocal support has died a death and the booing seems more prevalent as a consequence.
I critise the team and back them probably in equal measure i never boo an individual for making a mistake but i have booed the team off the park.
The guy who goes to the game and says or sings nothing is far more of a problem than the boo boys.
If you haven't got the red blood in your veins that makes you want to sing then maybe your at the wrong sport.
Give me a passionate ranting and backing supporter over the silent dispassionate"wit yae dain the night"brigade anytime.
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The intolerance and abusive language of some supporters ( I use the term loosely) is deplorable but JohnBhoy strikes the nail on the head with regard to taking action. If the abuse is beyond reason then take the seat numbers and report to the club. You may be pleasantly surprised at what a warning letter and threat of a ban can do.
The episode described by the 23 yr old fan is very sad but I'm surprised that that (!) alone is enough to make him turn in his season ticket. Has he been lucky enought to avoid the few that continue to indulge in sectarian and racist abuse or does it only count as out of order if it is directed at Celtic players?
The vast majority of the Celtic support are good, true supporters and are "the best supporters in the world" - with or without accolades from FIFA and UEFA. It is the minority of abusive ignorants that should be driven out.
Chris
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Bhoydell @ 1:34 - fair point.
I should have clarified that my comments on the away support purly related only to the way they get behind the team.
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As I've said many times on this site before, I think our fan base is having a right laugh when claiming to be the "best supporters in the world." I have my seasonbook in area 438 Jock Stein Upper and the support in there can be abysmal at times. On Monday, there was literally about 6 in the whole area actually bothering to cheer the team on.
The majority seem to turn up just in time for kick off, and I really hope we win many more games in the last few minutes as we did on Monday as it'll mean the ones that leave early miss out on the goals.
As for sectarian singing, I think it has been getting worse this season again. Saying "Rangers are much worse than us" mayt be true, but it doesn't mean the sectarian shit sung at Celtic Park is alright.
In the row in front of me, there's nobody that sings 10 seats either side, and there's 4 guys who won't even get up to applaud the team onto the park. They stand up to get a view of a goal, then sit back down again. No celebrating or anything. This absolutely enfuriates me. Then I've got a couple beside me who talk shopping etc for 90 minutes rather than getting into the game. And I have to say, this area is better then some others I've sat in.
I haven't a clue how we fix this. It's easy to say it's neds etc as I've heard from others, but I don't think that scrathes the surface. We need to have a support that cuts out the sectarian rubbish, starts "supporting" the team as the word "supporter" would suggest, quit the booing, turn up before kick off, leave on full time and just get behind the team the way you'd expect a true Celtic supporter to behave. Once we have 60,000 acting like that, yes, we can claim to be the best supporters in the world, as demonstrated in Seville. Until then, we're just a mixture of a prawn sandwich brigade, a bunch of sectarian idiots, a load of guys happy to boo the team, with a few truly p*ssed off supporters sitting amongst them, feeling the need to hand in their tickets due to being completely disillusioned by the Celtic family.
The above is a picture that's moving in a direction away from true supporters towards the rest I'm afraid.
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Vinniethedog,
sincerest and heartfelt condolences to you and your family
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Good post……………….. Paul 67.…………………….
I see you have hit a nerve……………….or 2
But lets look at it……….. from another angle…………………
If you SUPORT Celtic……………………….
Then you support Celtic………………………..
Everyone has an AXE to grind……………..
About some moron in the crowd…………..
I wouldn’t take everything you hear or see… 2 heart………….
People change during football matches………………
They turn into foul mouthed, roaring headcases, who have been on the lash………………….all day………………..
Joewhothinksweshouldlive&letlive.
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Dessybhoy, I've just sent Scotsport an email asking why if it was supposed to be the feature game they didn't show or even mention the penalty incident. Too much air time to Fraser Wishart on why it is ok for wrestling to go on in the Rangers penalty box (and how poor a decision was the rangers penalty and Makel sending off? Turning point of the game. Big Eckscuse forgot to mention that in his dignified rant at the ref).
The next remotely dodgy decision we get will have surgical analysis and titter titter those big Celtic and rangers boys get all the decisions.
Does anybody have any footage of the incident?
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Evening paul,fellow tims and Edward
Bhoydell 1.34pm
Please define "terracing terrorists"
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Kano, are you in Australia?
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leabgarrow,yup
good ol Perth
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foggy and cold here, you aint missing much.
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Kano,
terracing terrorists -: supports who sing IRA songs at our football games. BOTOB, North men south men, Sean south etc etc. Supporters who add lines into good Celtic songs such as "and the IRA" in the James McGrory song.
NOT, I may add fields or soldiers song as the press would have us believe.
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A very depressing letter. I have great sympathy for the writer.What do they say about the poor always being with us, I would suggest that regrettably this is a case of the cretins are always with us. Still perhaps he needs to reflect that it could be much worse.
My comparative would be being at the rear of the terracing at the Copeland Road end at Ibrox on the end of another drubbing with guys just in front tossing bottles and tumblers on the people below.
Anyone old enough to remember that terracing will know well enough that it was a complete impossibility to reach the bottom with a missile unless you were Olympic standard. I remember only too well mouthing to my cousin beside me “ Are they mad? Don’t they realise they’re hitting their own people?
Another defeat at Parkhead brought a shower of bottles raining from the Celtic end into the Jungle. Then of course there was a second semi final defeat in a row to St Mirren at Ibrox - cue bottles and glasses in the enclosure opposite the main stand whilst I and my mates, stupid enough to be near the front, cowered under raincoats held over our heads.
The other side of the coin though was the marvellous singing and clapping mixed with roars of defiance that sustained me and cemented this life long passion in the bad times between ’57 and ’65.
What is most worrying and what is new is the dreadful lack of atmosphere at Celtic Park. Reckon I hear more noise from the rustling of sweetie wrappers at the theatre these days. This for me is largely a consequence of all seater stadia and the season ticket regime which makes it impossible for like groups to congregate and create a “jungle-like” atmosphere where it would be unacceptable to be quiet.
This I believe can be tackled if the will is there and fully support the Jungle Bhoys initiative to encourage some return to the good old days. Then I just might be encouraged to get away from my tv support and visit hallowed ground once more – for the atmosphere, regardless of the performance or the result. Until then I’m afraid its “Plus ca change,plus c’est la meme chose.
That said I do hope the writer will in times to come be able to reflect that he was glad he persevered.
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It's quite wrong to think that this kind of attitude amongst "supporters" is new. It's undesirable but not a new phenomenon. Ask anyone in their forties or older if they remember the Tommy Callaghan and Harry Hood haters, to give just two examples. More recently I made the mistake, during the Hampden season, of asking the guy behind me if he was a Celtic supporter, given the amount of abuse he was giving the team during a rangers game. Guy wanted a square go there and then.
As for the away support being the "true" supporters, don't make me laugh. I hardly go to away games any more (used to go to virtually all of them) because of the loutish behaviour of seriously drunk IRA-chanting neds. And I'm not alone.
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Bhoydell 2.02pm
agree with the inserts into Celtic songs,but the first three songs are about people in organisations only considered terrorist by a draconian British government,and even then,only up until the mid 1920's
If you are going to use such emotive descriptions of Celtic fans maybe a short course in history would do you good.
Maybe the Tom Campbell history of Celtic and Tim Pat Coogan's history of the IRA/IRB would be a good point to start.
You may then discover that the three songs you mention are not after all alien to Celtic fans.
And frankly my dear,I don't give a damn what the press think
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Kano,
Kano,
I have read much on the history of the IRA and what started for all the correct reason's became murdering scum. It may come as a surprise to you, but the majority of Celtic fans are British.
Celtic are a Scottish football team. We have Irish roots but have been playing in Scotland for a long time. The songs I mentioned are all associated with IRA terrorism, one is particularly abhorrent with its line on "soon there will be no protestants at all", defending them does you no good. There is no place for terrorist IRA supporters at my Celtic and most others I hope, attach that crap to something else not in my name.
I agree with May 67, away games attract a lot of very young, very drunk neds and as I said its embarrassing being amongst them.
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In response to the post regarding the booing of Bobo on Sat.
i am a 19yr old season ticket holder. for as long as i can remember, my week has been based around the game on sat/sun. whether it be in paradise or pittodrie/easter rd. etc.
I don't agree with celtic fans booing celtic players however i feel that not booing them (bobo on sat) only because he's "wearing the hoops" is a disgrace... Stein said "the celtic jersey does not shrink to fit inferior players"! i agree wholeheartedly. the reason why we have substandard performances from substandard players is because of celtic fans blind loyalty. i love celtic as much as the next fan but i, along with a minority of celtic fans, can see when a player is simply not good enough to play for the club that we love.
By continually shouting "cmon big man head up" gives bobo another chance and i simply want to know. when is the big mans last chance because he is just not good enough. Don't get me wrong, he is not alone but he should be the first one to leave in january. Although i wish him the best in the African Nations.
Cheers
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Paul67 ,
My take on this is that something should be done not exactly through the football club itself but through the supporters associations. The Irish Celtic supporters association and all the various supporters associations in scotland could help get across the message about the foul-mouthed tirades of abuse regularly heard at matchdays these days. These are the groups of supporters who have large allocations of season books all around the ground. Get letters sent to all season book holders and supporters clubs explaining about the foul-mouthed abuse and try to stamp it out. Play on the conscience of the support to help "reduce the abuse". The ticket office could help as they have the addresses of the book-holders.
Use the stewards to pinpoint the seat of certain culprits and get them ejected then the seat-holder reprimanded. Effective smart use of this tactic would help stop some of the abuse. When others get the message that thier seats are under threat , believe me the abuse will stop.
This tactic already happens for the supporters associations when members or daytrippers misbehave , thier club or association takes action which usually ends up on a ban. My supporters club is one of the largest in ireland and we takes thousands across to glasgow every year and we have an excellent record of no trouble. We treat any misbehaviour with zero-tolerance and although there are always some idiots we generally self-police ourselves well in conjuntion with guidelines sent from celtic park. We have a code of conduct whether in the bar , in the ground , on a coach , boat etc. Anyone who breaks the rules gets banned. No exceptions.
Ok there should be a limit , people do get frustrated and do swear but we all know when certain individuals have over-stepped the mark. I understand why people should not intervene to try and stop as this usually leads to violence but this is where effective sensible stewarding comes into play.
In short a letter to the seasonbook holders explaining the situation could go a long way as then the support will be aware of the standards and conduct expected in Celtic park. Do not preach to the support but explain sensibly what the problems are and how they are going to try and be resolved.
Remember great strides were made to eradicate sectarion singing and in general it was a great success.
I would like to hear other opinions on this. Thank-you.
Big Liam.
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Right, pro-active approach please guys.
Can anyone give us a summary of how the singing section is progressing? Last I heard there were real problems getting people to move en masse.
How about a CQN approach on a smaller scale in the meantime. Those in favour of sitting with like-minded supporters, sit through 90 minutes, sing and support etc should wear a green armband at a selected home match. When you get to your seat have a look around for others in your area. Introduce yourself and ask anybody in between if they'd shuffle along a couple of seats, or sit a row or two forward or back to let you sit together. I don't think that's going to cause too many problems and it's much easier to get something going vocally when there are 2, 3, 4 or more of you all pulling the same way.
You could always formalise the seat swap at a future time but if we could get a whole load of wee groups in the short term we could at least make a start.
Any thoughts?
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terry oneill - 1:36. agree with most of your post although i have never ever booed a player or the team.
for what its worth, i think the reason that players such as bobo are getting stick is because of the wages paid. over the years fans have got sick of players earning disproportianetly to their footballing ability. the chickens are now coming home to roost.
i said i do not boo, however i believe i have the right to verbally criticise as long as its purely football related. eg paul telfer. i do not think the guy is celtic class and i think this shows in his distribution. on monday he could hardly find a celtic player with a pass if his life depended on it and i passed comment on that. i also praised him for his slide rule pass to naka for the winning goal. this meant that during the game he got more stick than praise from me - whats wrong with that?
as regards the guy giving up his season book, i wouldnt let things like that get to me. if you want a nice comfy atmosphere go the theatre - just my tuppence worth but i understand that out of 60,000 we are all different.
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Paul,
Straight off, I have to confess that I was one of those in the North Stand who booed Bobo when he blundered. Partly, it was exasperation because I was expecting somnething of the like when Lennon passed the ball back to him. But I also have to say that I was delighted (unlike the man sitting directly in front of me) when Bobo was cheered the next time he played the ball.
As someone who occupied the Hayshed (as my Dad always calls it) for about 45 years-going from sitting on the wall at the back to joining my Dad roughly in the middle (our eyesight isn't the greatest)- I can assure your younger readers that swearing and booing have been as much part of the Jungle as it is at any game now.
Personally, my worst experience at Celtic Park, by a long way, was the day that the morons booed Fergus. There was a huge banner condemning the RUC also very visible at the same time, which seemed to me totally inappropraite.
My worst experience anywhere was at Perth (can't remember the new ground's name) when these bigots kept up a constant stream of Irish Republican chanting (interspersed with sectarian rubbish). Not my idea of a great away support.
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Dessybhoy 1.17pm
Spot on with your analysis. When the team are not playing well and the reasons are apparent we become mightily frustrated and annoyed when nothing is done by the manager to see the obvious and change matters. As it is difficult to vent that pent-up frustration in any audible form to the manager the next best thing seems to be to take out on the players.
Another contributory factor to this general malaise is the success expectancy factor. The immediate years prior to Martin O'Neil were relatively lean. However,that changed with immediate effect under his tutelage and we then entered a period where we were expected to (and did) beat all teams quite handsomely at home. That we no longer do that is ,in my opinion, down to visiting teams not only wising up on tactics but also providing better all round play. Other than the odd occasional individual error I happen to think we are playing some good stuff at the moment and certainly no worse than the last couple of years under MON.The sooner we realise we have no divine right to steamroller so-called weaker opposition the sooner we can lend the same support to the team as we do when we expect a harder game eg in Europe or against the TFOD.
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flynn1888, if our manager was not coming out and pinpointing our deficiencies after every game, maybe, only maybe, then you would have a point. Our manager has highlighted our faults, it is down to him to address them. He knows we are far from the finished article. Booing only makes the team perform even worse.
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This will be my last post of the year and it's a sad note to end it on, but one we're all aware of.
There's this odd notion some football "fans" have got that since they've paid their money they can do what they like. Unfortunately the police and the stewards at most grounds condone this belief. If behaviour isn't acceptable in the high street on a Satuday afternoon, it shouldn't be acceptable in a football ground. The persistent swearers and abusers should be at least ejected, with the threat of prosecution.
The boo-boys are another problem. Someone disagreed with me a few posts ago when I said that there are "fans" who are hostile to the club. But sadly I think there just are angry hostile people out there who take their frustrations out on the club. Probably always will. I just don't go with the "It's because I love the club so much that I have to vent my disapproval loudly and publicly" claptrap.
All we can do is keep supporting, keep being publicly positive. And support the club when it does try things to make it better.
Two messages to finish with. One, Paul, to your young correspondent. Don't give up. You're right, they're wrong.If the guys around you are making your match experience unpleasant, complain to the club and ask them to move you, take a few weeks off, whatever, but don't give up. Maybe if enough people complain the club will act.
And the other one, the real reason I logged on.
Happy New Year to everyone. I'm off to an internet free zone for a week, so I'll have a lot of reading to catch up on when I come back.
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Bhoydell 2.22pm
First of all I would take issue with your first point that most Celtic fans would consider themselves British as complete and utter tosh.Scottish,mostly.British?
Please.
Celtic have always been a Scottish team,not just for a long time.
And once again,the three songs you mention have nothing whatsoever to do with "IRA terrorists"
Thirdly the line you have quoted "soon there will be no protestants at all"is not in any of the songs that you mention.
I presume you are referring to what you call North men south men.
The only similarity to that song and what is sung by your "neds" apart from the first line is the tune,it is mainly used as an intro for the Soldier song.
Once again I will say,I do not like bigoted or racist references being added in to any song.
As for the "murdering scum" scenario,I will agree that after the sixties, my attitude also changed as far as support for the so called IRA was concerned.
But I will say again,no song that you mentioned is in support of any
"terrorism".
If you disagree with political songs being sung at Parkhead or by Celtic fans at away grounds,just say so.
But please don't shout off at the mouth with regards to Irish folk music.As you obviously have no clue what you are talking about.
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A lot of very interesting posts, which suggests concern at the quality of fan at CP is widespread.
Blantyrekev is right. The good fan needs to be proactive. Encourage the team and individual players at all times. At the recent, awful, Dunfermline game, I had my head in my hands so many times, but that's got to be better than shouting "Thompson ya ****" or worse.
I think we've got to ask Celtic to take the lead here . Paul, I suspect the type of guy we're talking about here (the prawn sandwhich/10 minute early leaver/terracing terrorist/foul mouthed moron) won't listen to guys like us on CQN "preaching" at him. But he might listen to Neil Lennon. And especially Roy Keane!
A charm offensive needs to be carried out. Accentuate the positive. The overwhelming majority of fans are great. Maybe too passive, but not anti-social.
A code of conduct for fans? What works and what doesn't? Exactly what songs motivate the team and are appropriate and which aren't? What training are stewards given? What support are they given? Are they rewarded sufficiently to move in there and take out the anti-social?
I think Celtic fans, in general are better than anyone else (but will admit to bias). I like to thnk my marriage is special too. But I know it won't be if I don't work at it. The "specialness" of the Celtic support needs work paid to it. If we leave things be, wallowing in official awards and sentimentality, we won't be special for long.
Post '94, there is a different mindset in many fans. After apartheid in South Africa, a problem the new Government had was getting people to pay rents/taxes etc to the democratic government because a culture of protest had taken root.
Too many Celtic fans want to criticise first. There is still an attitude of us v them, which given the general cringe prevalent in Scottish society, of wanting to moan before anything else, this creates a negative vibe.
And, BTW, I don't think in the past 11 years we have seen terrible Celtic teams. Terrible one off displays yes, but even in the Barnes era we were still cuffing teams and playing some great stuff. In fact, if you use the Rangers fans' accounting methods, we won the League Cup in 199-2000, therefore that season was was more successful than the Seville year!Too many fans take beating "wee" teams for granted. Real Madrid struggle against their wee teams too.
Vinniethedog, sorry to hear your news. I'm sure your dad knows your thinking of him.
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It is up to us as fans to change the atmosphere at games and pinpoint the morons.
I realise that many people are perhaps unwilling to tell individuals themselves that they are out of order, but they can still speak to stewards and complain. If the stewards do not sort it out immdeiately ask to speak to the supervisors, take seat numbers etc.
Finally if that doesn't work, contact Celtic, explain what happened detail seat numbers, steward positions etc. Don't sit back, take control of the situation.
As a mouthy individual myself, I have got involved with 'debates' with Neds at games over racist abuse and constant 'terracing terrorist' support. My politics are my politics but I can't stand listening to 20th generation morons who couldn't put a pin in a map to show where Belfast is, singing nonsense at people who generally couldn't give a toss what happened at Gibralter or what ever.
At Fulham, less than a month after the bombings, I had a ned standing for much of the first 10 mins, giving it the full nonsense. 'Bomb, bomb, bomb the b........s etc..' At Leicester we had morons giving it the full 'Go on home' at the local RBL pipe band. FGS they were kids, there to entertain us, what an experience they got from the 'GSITW'.
Rant nearly over, I understand that many are unwilling to get in people's faces like I have been known to, but don't let these idiots ruin it for the rest of us. Highlight the morons to the Club (Home and Away, the Club generally allocates tickets to individuals now); to Stewards and if necessary the police.
If you don't take action then how can the Club????
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I get the feeling from Celtic that they want to tackle but they are obviously scared of causing divisions in the fans.
We saw MON raise the topic first and now we've had Desmond make statements attacking the fans that booed Quinn.
I don't know if anyone else has noticed but on the official website there has been many disguised attacks on the fanbase over the last few months."and with the home crowd, as usual, not slow to voice their discontent" Here is just one example.
I get the impression Celtic would like to tackle it but don't know how to go around doing it.
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Having attended games H & A since the late 60's. It should be noted that the average attendance at Celtic Park has probably doubled..hence also the number of loudmouth part-timers has also doubled. With the advent of seating only the atmosphere has decreased and we can now hear only too clearly these so called supporters. Probably the same kind who take great delight at ruining a minutes silence for ANYONE. The brain dead minority who like to make most noise, then profess undying devotion to the hoops when things are going well.
The sooner we campaign to follow the Germans back to at least a limited standing area again, the better for ALL concerned. Then at least you can move away from the morons who think abuse is actually a form of support.
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PS 2-1 against Hearts Hartson Balde
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The Celtic Support have always been vocal in their response to what they percive as negative on the football park. We dont care if we win lose or draw goes out of the window when there is a patently obvious change required in a defense that is giving away goals.
Now, that is not to say that booing is ok or that slavering and incoherent rants are justified. Just as we have to share breathing space with the man on the street we must do the same with all that occupy Celtic Park. Life is a constant battle against what we see as a denegration of social values. Its a fine line to walk between trying to change this whilst maintaing ones good looks.
Celtic park is a microcosm of any social gathering. I hate to use a religious conetation but the most recent midnight mass I attended was blighted by requests from the priest to the congregation to stop chewing gum.
What do Celtic do about it?
Dermot Desmond was heavily criticised for his chastising of the cuplrits within the Celtic support who booed Brian Quinn. The club cannot be seen to bring this subject up without backing from the support. Is there not a supporters social charter or mission statement that could be used as a banner headline by every Celtic blog and website for a while that would help at least to quell the negativity?
lets also be aware of the facts before we rant criticise or boo. Bobo is a good example. When I see him involved in the play my sphincter does tighten a little but all the while im thinking dont explode the guys got limited ability, for some reason is on Holywood money but has played with his heart and soul for a good number of years now. Gordon Strachan is the only guy who will decide whether he plays or not and he has to weigh up more than just the mistakes he makes.
Kano, what is it about the IRA that you feel is worth singing about at a game in Scotland in 2006 and what positive outcome do you hope to achieve personally and collectively (as a CELTIC FOOTBALL CLUB supporter) by doing this?
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The Celtic Support have always been vocal in their response to what they percive as negative on the football park. We dont care if we win lose or draw goes out of the window when there is a patently obvious change required in a defense that is giving away goals.
Now, that is not to say that booing is ok or that slavering and incoherent rants are justified. Just as we have to share breathing space with the man on the street we must do the same with all that occupy Celtic Park. Life is a constant battle against what we see as a denegration of social values. Its a fine line to walk between trying to change this whilst maintaing ones good looks.
Celtic park is a microcosm of any social gathering. I hate to use a religious conetation but the most recent midnight mass I attended was blighted by requests from the priest to the congregation to stop chewing gum.
What do Celtic do about it?
Dermot Desmond was heavily criticised for his chastising of the cuplrits within the Celtic support who booed Brian Quinn. The club cannot be seen to bring this subject up without backing from the support. Is there not a supporters social charter or mission statement that could be used as a banner headline by every Celtic blog and website for a while that would help at least to quell the negativity?
lets also be aware of the facts before we rant criticise or boo. Bobo is a good example. When I see him involved in the play my sphincter does tighten a little but all the while im thinking dont explode the guys got limited ability, for some reason is on Holywood money but has played with his heart and soul for a good number of years now. Gordon Strachan is the only guy who will decide whether he plays or not and he has to weigh up more than just the mistakes he makes.
Kano, what is it about the IRA that you feel is worth singing about at a game in Scotland in 2006 and what positive outcome do you hope to achieve personally and collectively (as a CELTIC FOOTBALL CLUB supporter) by doing this?
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Like many on Monday I let out a few choice words when Bobo's mistake let Livingston back into the match.
However it meant that we as a team and a support had to pick ourselves up and go again in order to win the match.
If someone can explain to me how booing a player would help in that objective I'm willing to listen.
Anyone?
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The saddest thing of all from the 23 year old who is giving up his season ticket is that he deoas not have the resiliance to stay and hold his corner. If Celtic is different it is because a large number of people hold the views of this young guy and speak out about supporting the team even when the play is dire. Because we don't 'know our history' young supprters may have the idea that we have always had large crowds and as we win so often we have always been happy. That's not the case. We have had poor teams terrible results and moaning crowds since my early memories in the fifties. Some of us have held on to support the team during the good and bad times and have kept shouting support and stood up to those who would attack our team even if they had paid to get in. I'd ask if our young anonymous friend could not stick it out and be one of the good guys. We don't want the cretins to win and as he has pointed out there do seem to be more and more of them. Please don't just walk away. We are right, they are wrong, don't let them beat you.
Brendan
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On a slight tangent, but a couple of weeks ago (at the Dunfermline game I think) I noticed a couple of boys selling "Soarse" (prob wrong spelling but I don't particularly care) on the approach to the ground at the Lisbon Lions end.
I challenged them and they told me to f**k off. Are we sliding back to the dark old days when people felt free to raise money for appalling pseudo-fascist pseudo-paramilitary organisations outside Celtic Park?
If we are, then we can hardly be surprised at the number of pig-ignorant foul-mouthed neds inside the stadium.
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I cannot say I heard any continous (in fact any at all) booing of Balde when he made his blunder. There was quite a bit of FFSing going on but no booing and quite rightly so. I don't like it when the support gets negative towards a player or to the team but they should be able to have a wee cry of disbelief if a player gifts a team a goal when we can least afford it.
Again I'm not saying players should be booed, I didn't hear any boos, but being dissapointed is natural.
However there are a few things that really annoy me...
1. Players such as McGeady or Maloney (or any of the younger ones) getting abuse for trying something different or making a mistake. These guys are trying to make something happen and it's the same people that get on Lennon's back for passing back who dish it out. You can't have the us always trying to go forward and possession football - pick one!
2. The lack of singing and atmosphere at CP. Maybe it's just the possitioning of the mics at away games on TV but it seems our away support are more vocal that the whole of the support at CP. I partially blame the corporate divisions of the club for this... we no longer see the banners hung over the tiers that emote some added atmosphere into the ground. Also, I think large sections of the support have joined the PC brigade and are scared of singing any songs with any relation to Ireland - THESE SONGS ARE NOT SECTARIAN - WHY HAVE WE STOPPED SINGING THEM WEEK IN WEEK OUT!?! I honestly cannot remember the last time I heard The Fields of Athenrye sung at CP. Why not?
The papers would have you believe that you will be arrested for singing but I cannot name more than one or two songs I've heard sung at CP that could possibly be classes as sectarian.
You'll Never Walk Alone isn't even as emotionally sung as it used to be - there must be a reason for this.
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Kano,
Reverting to insults is an admission of not being able to debate
Support of the IRA is up to you, it’s a free country. There is no place for IRA songs, even if you do profess they are folk songs at Celtic. Celtic are one of the best teams for having football songs, its time we sung them.
Irish history is of no consequence to me apart from what it is, history. I repeat most Celtic fans are British, we may not like that title, we may call ourselves Scottish etc but I think you will find the official nationality is British.
They words of that song are the ones that are sung by Celtic supporters, unfortunately.
Celtic is not about a sporting representation of a political organisation its about a Scottish football team. The more people who try and attach politics to Celtic the more difficult it is for the club to move forward.
My point, lest we forget, is in agreement with a number of others made here, that away games seem to attract the worst type of supporter, mostly young, mostly drunk, mostly abusive and mostly singing pro IRA songs, they embarrass Celtic and allow , correctly, people to point the finger at Celtic as well as Rangers. You see I believe that sometimes we are a bit "holier than though" around how good our supporters are. We have a large element amongst our support who you would cross the road to avoid. I have a number of pals who are Rangers season book holders who wouldn't dream of singing along with the stuff at Ibrox. The truth is that the Rangers support is actually very similar to our own, a lot of decent folk surrounded by morons.
I have had the same seat in the south stand (directly in front of the press box) for 24 years now. I enjoy it as it is mostly older guys who sit there and a bit of decorum exists between everyone. No saints by any means but little sectarian nonsense.
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Small point but come to think of it I didn't hear booing either. What I did hear was Bobo getting applauded after his farcical error and me and my brother were saying how good that was because Bobo would need all the help he could get because he was so nervous.
Brendan
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Dont know if this has been mentioned
but there is a group within the celtic support that have been formed to combat the atmosphere problems in Celtic Park.
This group is called the "Jungle Bhoys".
Along with the officials at parkhead they are responsible for the singing section (yes, there IS one). I think they are in the process of switching the singing section from the Jock Stein Stand to an area closer to the away support.
This group are also responsible for the card /banner / balloon displays we have seen recently.
Seeing everyone feels strongly about the issue why dont we proactive and join
up with them and offer what help we can.
The Jungle Bhoys
I think you need to register for this forum.
everyone has his/her part to play.No part is to big or small.
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bhoydell - so in your eyes celtic represents absolutely nothing more than a football team - granted a team that you obviously feel passionately about ?
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the booing happened on his first touch after the goal- it wasn't for v long but was as clear as day where I was sitting. He was heartily applauded next time he touched the ball however.
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Flynn1888
Re your comment re Bobo 'not being good enough'. How many central defenders have you seen at Celtic Park that you would consider to be much better than Bobo?
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dellbhoy - do you honestly think that celtic, runners-up in the SPL, one of the poorer leagues in Europe, would have been able to sign a proven world-class player, albeit aging, from the once richest club in world football, if it was merely a british/scottish football team ?
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Spikeysauldman
What else would Celtic be to me ?, I support Celtic passionately, I have the full boohna, season ticket, shares etc etc, but they are a football team.
Celtic is the football team I have supported all my life, why ? because my old man did. You see your old man gives you lots of direction. He was an ex Royal Marine, and extremely proud of it, he was also an extremely keen Celtic fan. Politics and football don't go and lets not even start on religeon!
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Bhoydell
To you blasphemy may not be offensive, but if you are not religious why would it be?
Just because you are not religious doesn't mean you are allowed to be disrespectful of people who are.
Imagine the person had shouted something similar but used Alla... in this country we go so far out our way to be "PC" that we forget to protect our own identities and religion.
Just look at the way companies do not allow christmas decorations and schools no longer call it christmas parties. If companies were to stop other religions carrying out their traditions they'd be up s**t creek! And rightly so! So why are Christians given no protection - just because we are in the majority (when you take atheists out of the equation)?
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First of all this is not a new phenomenon. It's not long since Harald Brattbakk was getting pelters then there was also Darren Jackson, Bobby Petta, Anton Rogan, Peter Grant, Paul Byrne, Carl Muggleton, Andy Payton, Malky McKay, Davie Provan, Tony Cascarino, Tommy Callaghan, Paul Wilson, Willie Faulkner, Jim Melrose, Brian O'Neil, Jonathan Gould, Gordon Marshall, Eyal Berkovic, Fergus McCann, Brian Quinn, Owen Archdeacon. I could go on and on and on. The writer is to be commended for buying his first season ticket during a time when no one needed one which was one of the worst spells in the last 50 years but I simply can't believe he hasn't heard a Celtic player being boo-ed before now especially if he's been a season ticket holder for 11 years. It's not nice but it's not new either. In an ideal world no Celtic player would be boo-ed by his own supporters but it's not an ideal world, it's as simple as that. I recall Didier Agathe being boo-ed and abused just for not taking a player on or not putting in a decent cross and that was only a year ago yet those same people are now demanding he be reinstated to the team! I wouldn't let a couple of arse holes put me off from supporting my team though they are just as much entitled to their opinion as anyone else if they pay their money. I don't like the way some people criticise John Hartson, they obviously know nothing about football but then they do pay to get in so there's not much I can do about that but I certainly wouldn't give up my ticket because of it. Some people think it was ok to boo Liam Miller because he had exercised his right to sign a pre contract agreement with Man Utd. I didn't think it was ok to boo the lad but those who did were entitled to do so if they wished even though it was bound to have an adverse effect on him and the team in general. After going to Celtic games for almost 50 years now I've seen many a player heckled and no doubt will see many more.
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Spikeysauldman
Roy keane signed for Celtic because he is a Celtic supporter. Lets not get acrried away though, he left Ireland a Celtic fan, joined Man utd and made himself a multi millionaire. When you are in that position, its easy to sign for your team after that's in the bank. It's very similar to what Henrik Larsson is doing by going back to Helsingbourg. I don't believe it shows any "magic" about Celtic.
Now don't get me wrong, Celtic are special, "things" happen with Celtic that are different. I sit beside an old guy who always goes on about going to Lisbon. I constantly tell my son that when he is old he will regail our trip to Seville in the same way.
With Celtic many things stand out like Lisbon and Seville, but in my view its the other "things" that make Celtic special. e.g. the day Murray banned us from Ibrox and some fans hired a plane to fly round Ibrox with a banner flying "Hail Hail the Celts are here". That's what makes us different.
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Bhoydell...Bhoydell...Bhoydell...
You sound like the kind of fan at CP who is partly responsible for the loss of atmosphere. "history is of no consequence to me apart from what it is, history" - Without the history, our club is simply a bigger version of Livingston. Take away the history; you take away the romance, the passion, the love.
On a completely different issue name the sectarian songs that you do not want at parkhead... I'd like to know incase I am ignorantly singing them and get arrested.
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bhoydell - i see nothing wrong/lesser in what celtic means to you - in fact it obviously means a lot more to you than most other celtic fans - what I am saying is that whereas celtic should rightly be seen as an inclusive club, its history and traditions cannot be ignored by any of its supporters - yes by all means , rid cp of bigots (true bigots), but you can't go re-writing the clubs history.
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Malone19,
I was intriged as to why Paul called out the "Jesus ****" comment, as if it was much worse than any other swearing. Religeon has nothing to do with Celtic. For what its worth I agree the Pc thing has gone mad.
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Brendan.
Solely to create an atmosphere which does not involve booing,moaning and hissing at players.
You are missing the point about the IRA.Many will mention other Irish songs which are "okay to sing"which doesn't seem to get peoples back up.Fields of Athenry is a perfect example.You cannot sing songs about Irish history or culture and just whitewash out anything that mentions the fight for freedom/IRA just because they became a bunch of thugs in the 70's and eighties.
Just because the songs are about 80 or 90 years ago does not make them any less relevant.
If that was the case we would not be singing about Willie Maley or John Thompson.
We are a club with a PROUD Irish background.Because a few neds bastardise the songs or a few fainthearted souls may not see it "in this day and age" as politically correct is no reason in my book not to include them in the repertoire.
People continually harp back to the days of the jungle in regards to atmosphere.And they are correct in their recollections of the atmosphere being vastly superior to what it is today.
But let me tell you.I was one of the ones in the jungle(and the middle of the Celtic end was just as good by the way)and no way known to man where the songs confined to Celtic Football Club.
Nor where they confined to Irish music either.Just ask Archie McPherson or Davie Cooper's wife,or Ian Durrants sexual preferences for that matter.
If you do not wish to contribute to the songs or disagree with them being sung,then start another one and sing it louder.
I have stated on here on more than a few occasions I abhor racist and bigoted chants or songs.
But apart from that the more singing that takes place,the better.It is noise that makes the atmosphere,happy singing noises.
Not the intellectual quality of the song.
Each and everyone of us who go to Parkhead is entitled to support the club in the way we see fit.
And I emphasise support.
If you,or any one else chooses to sit and tut-tut at the choice of songs,please feel free to do so.
I totally agree with the sentiments being expressed on here as far as the booing and moaning goes,but that doesn't make me right.
Personally, I feel if there is nothing bigoted or racist involved,then,anything goes.
From the full repertoire of Celtic songs,Irish songs,funny ditties about job security of the opposition coach,or physical attributes of opposition players.
It is not Parliament we are involved in.It is going to support a football team.
And I for one am a great believer in loud noise being the pre-requisite for atmosphere and not whatever lyrics the noise may contain.
Try watching a Schalke or Dortmund or any Turkish home game.I haven't the foggiest idea what they are singing about,but the atmosphere is intimidating and electric.
We can do it,as we have proven over and again at European games and at away games.
If you wish to take teenagers or your own genteel selves somewhere were your little ears won't be savaged by "bad words".There is a huge desert called the Gibson about 600 miles east of me.
You might as well go there,because apart from,maybe a religious congregation,I am hard pressed to think where else you will not hear swearing.
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bhoydell - c'mon that bit about keane is bollox. henke is going back to his roots and so is keane (in a way). to say there is no magic about celtic for roy keane is "mental" if you were to ask some non educated delinquent.
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Taboo or not Taboo...That is the question!
Paul,
It seems to me that the title of your piece is a slightly amiss...It is not Celtic Traditions Torn Asunder....It is Traditions in general....The Stadium is different.....The Ticket Holders are different...And the world is now very different. All in the space of a generation or two! 'Back in the Day'...it seems to me...people Cursed Clever.....
My early memories of Paradise are the following...Nae burds...Nae weans....It was a mans game (off the park too)....Just a GIANT PUB....Populated by a testosterene horde with whom I shared common values, language, humour and taboos. Add in the creative genius of wags and wits on the terraces who peppered their astute observations with expletives....Without fear of offending anyone....A Grand Time was had by all...And yes I recall booing..(but mostly at the end of games).
Some things have changed and some have not.
Those inadequates who attend matches in order to vent bile and their own personal frustrations? Well they have always been there....Ignorance, anger and self loathing are reasons for such behavior but not excuses for it....
It is just that today there are many more of them...as there are also many more people likely to be offended. If the inadequates do not have the social grace to recognize that families are around...And that they are embarrasing others as well as themselves they should have their card marked by officialdom...Screaming abuse into the ears of other customers should be taboo!.
I hope the young man who wrote to you takes the advice of many on CQN...Object...Request a move to another seat...But Keep The Faith!
vinniethedogGod bless you and your family.
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I'm still struggling to understand why the Fields of Athenrye is rarely heard any more.
It is one of the better songs at Celtic Park and up until last season or the season before it was sung at least once every game.
Can anyone tell me the last time they heard it?
Can anyone tell me why we hardly ever sing it these days?
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The Jungle Bhoys are working hard to combat all of the issues at Celtic Park that the bhoy who wrote that letter expressed, lack of / extremely negative atmospheres, shocking abuse of our own players, as well as the lack of colour that is sadly prevalent at our home ground on matchdays now.
If they don't succeed in these initiatives and change things for the better then experiences like the atmosphere against Livi will continue for years to come at Celtic Park, so if you're like myself and the anonymous letter writer and are sick of going to CP and feeling part of the silent minority who actually intend to SUPPORT the team then it's time to be pro-active and help the Jungle Bhoys combat the problem. Moaning about it behind your keyboard won't change anything, we have to get up and do something about it ourselves.
The answer to this problem is the Jungle Bhoys, so get in touch and see how you can help - be it from the smallest role to the biggest, we all have our part to play if we're genuine about changing the atmosphere at Celtic Park for good. If not then we can continue to go to games and hear our players being abused, then come home and moan about it through our keyboards for years to come.
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Malone19, I think you may have misread my mail, I inferred that Irish history is no more than that, history, Celtic's history is very important to me. It's future though is even more important.
With the exception of the Rangers games I can't remember the last time I heard a sectarian song at Parkhead, but when I go to away games (which is often) I unfortunately hear them all the time, the point I have made all along is that our away support is not a good one, apart from numbers, but I don't let it stop me going to support Celtic.
Spikeysauldman
Celtic's history is fantastic, wouldn't want to re-write it, but its link to Ireland is that we were started by an Irish monk to feed the poor of the east end many of whom were Irish immigrants. We should not forget that. As I said though my interest is in the future, I truly believe that we can become a major force again and I am looking forward to it. The future will be in a British football league and it will be real bad news if we take our political and sectarian baggage with us.
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We were poor in the 2nd half against Livi but the reaction of some of the crowd was OTT. This outraged, negative and counter productive reaction of some fans does seem to be a very new phenomenon, even last season when were worse (in my opinion) than we have been this season and looked to be going backwards, the fans were not so outraged when we played a few bad passes.
What's worse this season is it's young players like McGeady and Wallace that are getting terrible stick, whereas last season if criticism was given it was towards the likes of Thommo and Hartson, who are both big and ugly enoungh to handle it.
I believe WGS's actions this season point toward the fact that we will be bringing a lot more of the youth team through to the 1st team in the coming years. The section of the crowd who feel it is ok to go bananas at a player who makes a few mistakes will need to change or leave. The kind of negativity that poured from the stands on Monday has the potential to destroy the fragile confidence of youngsters.
As for the guy that wrote the letter - Stick with tic! - We need more fans like you to stay with us and create a more positive atmosphere at Celtic Park
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Slight change of subject
Nieto, the new BattyGol has gone
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/r/rangers/4564514.stm
Hail hail 8-)
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Spikeysauldman
You see I have a big issue about football players as I believe almost all of them are money grabbing B's, who don't give a toss about Celtic they only want the money. Roy Keane is an exception to that, he could have went for the bucks but on this occassion didn't. However, if he had refused to sign the last contract at Man U a few years ago for £90k a week and came to Celtic for £20K, then I would have agreed it would have been special. Lets not forget Roy Keane has been fully paid up by Man U his £90K a week so anything from Celtic is a bonus (although I accept Madrid would have paid him more).
Don't even start me on Henrik!
Professional footy players want the money, but we as supporters pretend they are here for other reasons like their love of Celtic. I can remember standing outside Celtic park in the pouring rain late in the evening in 94 awaiting Fergus and Brian Dempsey coming out to deliver the "rebels have won" speach. A BBC reporter asked the guy next to me for a comment and he said something that has always stuck with me as I believe it to be completely true.
He said, lets get it straight, the old board don't love Celtic they loved the money, the new board don't love Celtic, they love the money, the players don't love Celtic, they love the money, the only people who love Celtic are us, the supporters.
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Bhoydell,
I am sorry if you feel "insulted" by anything I have written.There was nothing personal intended.Merely pointing to a lack of knowledge on folk songs.
I do not "profess" to these songs being folk songs.
They are,pure and simple.
You may disagree with some of their lyrics,but for you stand on your soapbox and tell me what belongs at Parkhead and what doesn't is just preposterous.
If irish history is of no consequence to you,fine.Please fell free to come to Parkhead and take part in the Celtic songs and,then if you so wish,cover your ears when anything outside your definition of acceptable is being sung.
You may well feel you are "holier than though"(your spelling),but I certainly don't.
You continue tut-tutting with your well mannered oldies,and i will continue singing.
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Interesting debate as always.
I have not read all the posts yet, so apoligies if this has been covered.
I feel that this booing of certain players/team has a hint of double standards about it. On the one hand, the league we play in is called the "SPHell" by some fans, due to its perceived lack of competitiveness. Cue complaints about "paying out money too watch this c***", etc.
Then on the other, when a team like Livi come and have a go at us and we struggle to impose ourselves because they don't roll over, then cue complaints about "paying money to watch this c***", etc. I'm afraid that it cannot be both ways.
I agree with the other "aul haunds" (c. supercelt) about the levels of abuse being roughly the same, but having returned this season after a lengthy period away from Celtic Park, I would contend that the tolerance level has dropped amongst those who dole out the abuse. At the same time, the vindictivness and intolerance of the abuse, has risen. For example, my first game back was the Artmedia return game, and during the match, a young "supporter". used the "n" word when deriding Camara about a misplaced pass. I must say that my heart sank, but fortunately, he has not been back. Otherwise, I would not have renewed my season book for next season
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The only difference from actually being at the game on Saturday and just watching it on the tele was the weather.
Just try starting a song in the South Stand...your own your own!
There seems to be a moment in the first half at every home game, when the ball goes out for a goal kick and half the stadium walk away.
Is it half time already?
No! There's still 10 minutes left!
Watch the north stand before the game starts.They don't even lift their scarfs for You'll Never Walk Alone ,never mind singing.
Don't get me started on investers section/67 club memebers.
Come out 5 minutes in to the game if you will.Back in after 35 mins to get the best prawn sandwich and if you have a wee look with 10 mins to go their section is totally decimated with a sprinkle of fans here and there.
Celtic should be a inclusive club, but surely an IQ test would be beneficial for all.
Sean
p.s The most vocal member in FS1 was a mid 40's Bulgarian woman who was they with her dad.
More of them please!
p.p.s Michael McGlinchey made his debuet on Sat.Looked a bit nervous coming on.Received a warm reception but lost the ball the first time he got it.
Did we boo? NO!
We encouraged him and he went on to have a good game!
Not rocket science.
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Bhoydell,
As you have now decided that we are a British club we will have to start singing 'God Save the Queen', slight flaw in this as it contains the line 'Rebellious Scots to crush' and as such I believe it probably breaks some sort of anti-sectarian law.
Who do you sue over a complaint with the national anthem?
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JUNGLE BHOYS FANZINE
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Dellbhoy, if you feel so british maybe the tfod are the team for you, from a CELTIC supporting Scottish Republican
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I can't understand why this guy would send Paul a letter suggesting he can use it on his website - but he wants to remain anonymous - I mean why not just post it on here himself anonymously like everybody else does?
Assuming its genuine, I suspect the guy at 23 is perhaps maturing a little and decided that all the hassle you have to put up with by following a football team these days simply isn't worth it any longer. What's goes on at Celtic Park is the same as what's goes on at big clubs everywhere these days.
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Dellbhoy………………………………..
Sorry m8 but ………………
I can vouch for any one else…………………
My passport might say British……….
BUT………………………………...
I AM SCOTTISH……………..
AND PROUD OF IT………………….
Proud of my Scottish heritage & history…………
braveHEARTjoe
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www.celticquicknews.co.uk
what did you all make of wgs comments re suuton - along the lines of "he trained all week, looked good but reported an injury"
or am i just reading too much into it ?
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Interesting that the experience suffered by the writer of the letter is now being felt to some extent by some of the contributors on this thread. It shows that we have a varied support, varied beliefs and passionate fans.
The Club need to take the responsibility for differentiating between reasonable criticism and downright abuse. When it gets to the point that those folks around the 'abuser' are being offended by bad language, the abuser needs to be ejected from the ground and given a warning. If it happens again a sterner warning and a third time they are banned from the ground for a period of time.
The only solution to this problem is for the team to win every game by 4 or 5 goals and give the moaners nothing to complain about. There you go - an easy problem to solve.
Vinnie - hang in there it does get better.
Happy New Year to ALL Celtic Fans Worldwide
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It seems a lot of people have taken some offensive to me stating the obvious, i.e. most Celtic fans are British, I am not saying I particularly see myself as British, I see myself as Scottish, but the fact is we are mostly British citizens.
As to EckBHOY68 suggesting I should support Rangers because of this, grow up.
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spikeysauldman:
i think im reading the same into it as you. a mate of mine commented that sutton no longer looks interested as he did when he won the player of the year award. perhaps years of injury (he reportedly struggles for days after games) has taken it's toll and the prospect of playing in "wee games" no longer excites him. that being said, i dont think strachan should be laying hints to the media, if that was indeed what he was doing...
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Ha Ha derek do you know me???? you see i cant grow up as i am what you would class a midget. Ok dont want any sympathy of the true celtic fans or any bad jokes. What can i say what national anthem do you stand to i wonder, also arent the british or is that the english army cause they serve under an english queen murderous soldiers??
Obviously you cheered watching Braveheart when williams wife had her throat cut and when the man himself was tortured. You SEE deek i am a Scottish republican who believes that all the Celtic Nations should be free from your so called britishness.Anyway you have taken us away from the main subject and i have had a few bad experiences not long ago BBJ scored and a guy 3 rows in front of me Lions stand lower starting shouting "yer still sh..e hartson and get to f..k. Cmon the hoops you know we are top of the league and some of the football has been to a good standard considering what WGS came into
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This rosy hue about how great we were in the past at supporting the team is nothing more than a romantic myth.
Things were no different then than they are today. I can distinctly remember the booing of Chalmers, Jackson, Divers, Hughes, Jinky and even the revered Neilly Mochan. I have had to turn around from the game and watch out for bottles containing God knows what by mindless morons at Ibrox. I have witnessed many fights on our own terracings between fans wearing green scraves.
In the days of the Jungle the camera platform and the mikes were placed above the most vociferous and most expressive fans in the ground. The reasons for congregating there were obvious. Halfway and shelter from the rain. Not to mention the opportunity to disabuse, Montford, Cameron, Thomson and McPherson.
The place was full of "characters" and if your daughter had brought one home, you would have immediately committed her to a nunnery. Language was choice and would not be tolerated today. BBC and STV had often to dub out the chants due to the offensive content.
Individuals had been poorly house trained and were belligerent if you objected to them openly urinating.
As a teenager I thoroughly enjoyed the experience, but I have since matured and believe there is no place for that kind of anti social behaviour. Unfortunately some people cannot mature.
That is why I wonder about the constant criticism of the so called "Prawn sandwich brigade." (I would prefer beef or ham myself as I have no liking of shell fish.) What we need to do is to encourage them to sing. They are probably just a little shy and self conscious.
Or support is a cross section of society with all its carbunkles. We must use all the means at our disposal to get them behind the team.
Singing sections, tannoy music, ejections for foul language and personal abuse, bannings for racism and finally.....
Keeping the gates closed until the final whistle and stewards not allowing people to leave their seats before the game is over.
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Im quite partial to a prawn sandwich myself.
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For all Bobo's faults can someone please name a better defender at Celtic park?
If you are being honest the answer is there isn't.
BTW I see little comment about the terrific tackle he made to win the ball in the lead up to the winning goal.
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Al dont go there........
it has been well established on this site that the crayfish is the king of crustacean!
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Had a similar thread of conversation on the way home after the game on Monday and also with a friend and local buisnessman...and the conclusion was - bring back the belt. Teach a school child to respect society. Teach them that punishment means punishment - not a 150 word essay on "why we don't do that"
There is a generation younger than me that believes the world owes them something for being born. And there is my generation in positions of power that are so blinded by fear of offending minorities, or spongers, or junkie scumbags, etc etc that they bend over backwards to be PC.
That may sound racist or right-wing. It isn't meant to. I was brought up with a belief that you work hard. You work hard and earn the right to social security or benefits. You help those that can't help themselves (the old, the ill). You work for the greater good. If you look after people, people look after you. I work with Poles, Indians, Chinese, Japanese, Irish, English and Scots. And the key word there is work. We work together. We help each other. We may not get on with each other or even LIKE each other, but we respect each other.
Unfortunately this is becoming less and less of the norm. Too many are given "easy money" hand-outs. Methadone programmes while OAP's can't heat their homes. 15 mile trip to casualty 'coz the local one has been closed down. Double glazing and central heating for the home of the local one-legged, single parent, hooker-junkie-scumbag while the council chase an OAP for falling into rent arrears.
And this is now being reflected in the stands at CP. Celtic is/was a family. Being a Celtic supporter means/meant so much more. I remember going to the games on the bus. The cammeraderie (sp?) of it all. Standing in the Jungle, with the booze and the banter flowing. The sense of belonging to a special family - much bigger than my own immediate family - and being able to share that with my friends. (Incidently I STILL share it with my friends, but we now sit over the Jungle rather than stand in it). But now, the minority is becoming more and more vocal, and the self-serving mentality of today is more and more being reflected in the stands. Before my dad died, I asked him if he would have liked to be born into my generation. His answer was a firm "No". "I could leave a job in the morning, and start a new one in the afternoon. I travelled the world and I discovered things by encountering them - not by looking up the Internet. And I lived in a community that had a spirit of unity. Now, people only care for themselves." Only recently have I realised he was more profetic (sp?) than I ever could have imagined.
There is a rotting stench in the air, and it's the stench of the death of the community. It's not nice, and unfortunately it's going to be the good people that get hurt most as things deteriorate.
However, I believe we CAN save it. I believe the good people WILL win out. WE have to believe that. Teach the kids to respect the community. If an asylum seeker moves in down the street, say "hello, how are you? Can we help you?" Show kids that two parents who talk and listen to each other and the children are the NORM, not unusual. Show them that respect earns respect. And most of all, and this goes for all here too,
KEEP THE FAITH.
I'm sorry for the rant, but at this time of year I'm somewhat down due to family circumstances. And I get angry when some of my wider family get hurt. Especially when that hurt is caused by some of our own. Am off to lie down in a darkened room...again, sorry.
G
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radio clyde's reporting taxi for sutton. wgs comments make sense now!
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Off topic, I can't see WGS tinkering too much with the side on Sunday. Thereafter, Bobo's departure in January (whether temporary or not) along with RK's availability gives WGS an opportunity. Assuming there are no new arrivals and we get Beattie and Magic fit, here's what I think we could see...
...........Boruc..............
Virgo, Du Wei, McManus, Telfer
............Lennon............
......Petrov,Keane,Naka.......
..........Magic,BBJ...........
Subs. Marshall, Beattie, Maloney, McGeady, Wallace, Agathe
Not a bad subs bench. All these guys could walk into any SPL first eleven.
It's time to cut our losses on some other guys; Sutton(love ya big man), Thomson, Bobo, Varga, maybe Agathe if WGS doesn't rate him.
Personally, I would like to see Agathe given another chance at right back and moving Virgo back to the bench. With the money made or saved on the transfers, I would invest in a natural left back.
All in all, when you consider the younger players not mentioned above, we have the strongest pool of players we have had for a very long time. I also expect we will see a new face or two in January.
Good times.
Hail Hail
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Wish the other supporters were like you.
Don't hand back your season book, we need more not less like you there, sure as anything another whingeing moan will snap it up if you do to join the rest of the motley crew.
Should the Stewards not be able to turf out 'supporters' if they're reported to them for been abusive to other genuine supporters - one witness to corroborate the abuse should be enough?
Sad days anyway.
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DIGNITY
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Depressing day on CQN. Appreciate what you are trying to do, Paul....
So, to brighten things up, here is the story of a superstar.
ACT ONE
Alex McLeish said: "Nieto is an exciting prospect and we could not afford to wait much longer to sign him, as his value will surely escalate as he continues to improve and develop.
"Whilst he is maybe not yet the finished article, he will join our first-team squad immediately and I believe will potentially be a huge asset to our team.
"I am delighted he has decided to come to Rangers, despite many offers from elsewhere."
Chief Executive Martin Bain added: "Subject to the transfer of his registration, we are really pleased to have concluded a deal for such a young and exciting prospect and it has certainly not been easy given the interest from other major clubs.
"I'm sure with the facilities at Murray Park we have a real opportunity to quickly maximise his potential. The deal is perfectly structured - the fact that is a loan deal with an option to purchase is ideal for both the club and the player."
ACT TWO
McLeish insists it was the media, not Rangers, who gave Nieto the big build-up. He said: "Much was made of his arrival but I said at the time let's not put too much pressure on him. He's just a young player coming from a small team in Argentina.
ACT THREE
RANGERS will have to pay football agents half of any transfer fee should they want to make their new loan signing Federico Nieto a permanent addition to their squad. The Sunday Herald has learned that his Argentine club, Almagro, sold 50-per cent of the rights to the player to an investment consortium led by licensed agent Marcelo Simonian for pounds-258,000 just one month ago.
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Off topic(s)
Rumour just surfaced of a new manager for the dark side...
We can look forward to him being interviewed in his shaky wee voice..."I would really love it if we beat them"
He has apparently just bought a house in Inverkip.
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Hello everybody,
being born in the fifties,56 to be exact,my memories of Celtic from when I could actually appreciate how much they meant to me,was of success.The Lions,the sixtey-nine treble winning team,nine-in-a-row,cup-finals and the great european nights.I can remember my father telling me to savour the experience,as it might not always be good.He had been through the bad times so knew what he was talking about.This stood me in good stead when I suffered the bad times.
Even in the great times players got booed.John Hughes in the 60's and 70's received dog's abuse on occasions,the next game the same supporters,would swear he was the best thing since,sliced bread.Go through the years and you will find players who got stick from the celtic support,only to be heroes on another day,Paul McStay who carried some of the teams he played for,is a prime example.
My point is that it is o.k. to let off steam now and again at any celtic player as long as it is just that and not some tirade of abuse,which is carried on and prolonged.
Pre 2000 apart from 1998 we would have given anything for a league title,but even through them dark days I always remembered what ma da had said to me during the glory days,so I kept the faith,kept hoping and praying and was rewarded during the MON years.See to me thats what being a tim is all about.Not just me thousands like me,when we are down we stay faithful,knowing our day will come.I dont know the reason for it,but there isn't the same atmosphere at parkhead when we most need it,when things are not going to plan.The crowd can get impatient very quickly these days and start getting on people's back's which does not help anybody
As for the singing of rebel songs,these tunes have been passed from father to son for as long as I can remember,so no matter what your opinion is you are not going to stop it,just because it is deemed politically correct.
Last word on the booing,the day wee fergus got pelters should go down in our history as a day of shame,some people have got very short memories.As far as I am concerned,the bunnet is up there with the other legends.
Wild Monty @12.55 go easy on us 40-60 year olds,some of us are the next generation of geriatric celtic supporters :-)
Vinniethedog,condolences to you and your family,on the loss of your father.
Yours John_b
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Some of the best people I've known have been Celtic fans.
Also some of the most objectionable individuals I've had the misfortune to come across have been celtic fans.
On the whole we are a support to be proud of but not anywhere perfect.
For the Seville legendery season and UEFA award we have the Mark Walters new year debut game.
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Aw no...not the old Kevin Keegan Rafael again !!!!
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I was at the Fulham pre season game with my Spanish wife (her first game), my NZ cousin (lifetime fan) and hi South African wife (her first game also). We were sitting in the stand across from the dug outs and I have to say it was just a bloody lovely atmosphere. This despite the fact we didn´t play particularly well and didn´t win. The banter was fantastic and my wife found the sounds hilarious (once I had translated them into something she could understand of course! :o) )
I wouldn´t take her to a game a Celtic park at the moment. I want her to think of Celtic fans as the heroes of Seville, the "crazy men in skirts" her family jokes about having seen numerous news stories on Spanish news about our army in Seville. I want her to remember the hilarious drunken folks at Fulham. I don´t want her to see us as a bunch of foul mouthed a*seholes who don´t live up to their reputation as the best fans in the world.
Maybe it was because there were many London Celts at the pre season game who don´t want to waste a rare opportunity to see the bhoys by ranting abuse at them for a simple mistake, maybe it was the gorgeous weather... I don´t know. But thats what I expect from my fellow Celtic fans.
A sad LondonBhoy today.
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This debate has at least concentrated our focus on the shocking lack of atmosphere and negativity at Celtic Park and, while we may have vastly differing opinions on the causes, I think it says much for the Celtic support that we can be so open and honest about a problem which affects most large home supports throughout Britain.
Manchester United have the biggest fan base in Britain yet Old Trafford is known as The Library because it is so quiet on match days.
Yet away from home The Reds have one of the noisiest supports in Britain.
It is the same at England's second biggest supported club, Newcastle, -who get 52,000 every home game- yet for most home games you can hear a pin drop.
The Toon Army's reputation as passionate fans is largely based on their singing and chanting at away games.
And nearer home you only have to look at Rangers websites to know that apart from Old Firm and European games the atmosphere at Ibrox never matches that at away games.
The home atmopshere problem at most big clubs is created by all-seated stadia where groups of committed fans can no longer gather in singing ends such as The Jungle, The Kop, Stretford End etc.
Secondly, all these large clubs have dramtically increased their capacity since the Taylor report and have brought in the new breed of corporate customer and many new middle-class fans, who see football as a trendy hobby rather than the traditional total, cradle to grave commitment of the old working-class fan base.
A lot of people forget that in the Jock Stein nine-in-a-row era our average gates were only around the 30,000-mark.
We have DOUBLED our average gate since those great days and, sadly, a lot of the 30,000 newcomers are not as diehard or passionate as the old brigade.
These people have only known an era when Celtic almost always won at Parkhead and I think their glory-hunter mentality is exposed whenever the teams struggles.
The old twelfth man mentality seems to have been submerged under the weight of indifference that the "new" Celtic fans have brought.
And I think Celtic themselves have contributed to the much tamer atmosphere with the mixed messages that came out of the Bhoys Against Bigotry campaign.
We should be proud of our Irish traditions and celebrate them- not apologise for them.
As we have seen here today many genuine Celtic fans seem to be confused about what actually constitutes a sectarian or bigoted song.
I have even heard people puzzling whether The Fields of Athenry or The Soldiers Song are sectarian and whether or not they can wave the Irish tricolour.
That is why you rarely hear The Fields or the Irish National Anthem sung at home games these days.
Clearly some of the uncomplimentary opinions here regarding Irish songs show that many of the new breed of supporter do not share or sympathise with the club's Irish heritage.
Celtic fans have always sung Irish songs at matches- I'm so old that I can even recall singing Hail Glorious St. Patrick in the old Celtic end- and I hope that tradition will never be allowed to die.
And what about those thousands of banners and Tricolours that brought such colour to Seville. We need to get them out of the loft and into Parkhead.
It is a difficult problem to overcome but I think the Jungle Bhoys iniative is the way forward.
We are like Barcelona in that we are much more more than a football club- let's show the world that we really are different and reclaim Parkhead as a theatre of passion, commitment and colour.
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Vinniethedog, my sincere condolences. I hope you and your family have coped as well as could be expected.
Thanks for dropping in and letting us know what has been going on with you.
Take care, and keep busy.
Newtaggsybhoy, three excellent points: if Roy Keane and Neil Lennon started an initiative it would send a powerful message.
“Rangers accounting method” would mean the John Barnes season was more successful than the Seville season – I liked that.
“Real Madrid struggle against wee teams too”.
SpikeyaAuldMan 5:15, I also wondered about the managers comments on Sutton.
BhoyDell, a stunning display of tin hat proportions today, I remember discussing similar points with you once before.
On the religious cursing; I am offended, and I am sure many others were as well. I would be offended and surprised if I heard this at any social gathering, and was especially surprised to hear it at Celtic Park.
Apologies, I have not read many of the worthy posts yet, just grabbed a few minutes to catch up.
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I have been catching up on the debate today about the behaviour at matches. The first thing I would say is that we shouldn't delude ourselves in believing that this a new phenomenon. I have been going to games since the late fifties and seen some wild things. As someone posted earlier, the riot at Ibrox v St Mirren in 1962 was particularly frightening and it was caused by Celtic fans battling with each other! The scenes at the end of the Liverpool game in 1966 were also very scary. Unfortunately I could recall many instances when Celtic fans behaved in a downright disgraceful manner. Perhaps the common denominator in "the old days" was the drink. Though this shouldn't be an excuse for bad behaviour. The abuse of players was not uncommon either,again as someone posted earlier,some good Celts were given pelters by the fans. Also the facilities in the past were primitive in the extreme and probably not conducive to good behaviour. I find myself agreeing with a lot of what georgiebhoy @6.03 posted. Maybe it is true that the older you get the more you move to the right...I hope not! One word he did use that I feel is at the heart of a lot of problems is RESPECT. It is hard to find these days. Sure people pay their money and are entitled to criticise but there just seems to be an awful lot of angry people around these days. The hate, and I use that word advisedly, that is spouted towards some of our players is disgraceful. Why the hell do these people come to the game and then leave early?! Just like Bobo, when the Celtic fans are good they are very good but when they are bad......well. My advice to the young guy who wrote the letter? Don't chuck it. These guys are not representative of the Celtic support, unfortunately they are representative of the type of behaviour that is all too common in our society at large. Keep supporting the Celtic because we are a special club and there is so much more to be proud of than to be ashamed of.
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Celtic's Social Charter
Always worth a read as a reminder of what Celtic is about. I think Estadio says much of this...but in his poetic prose.
Maybe we could have a permanent link to the Charter at the side of the page???
Chris
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to the young 23 year old you don't just give up and think about supporting another team.
celtic are family, your blood. its your brother, sister, father and mother its your history, along with the good and bad days. you just don't decide to give up, that not part of the deal
hail hail
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Hi Paul,
Thought I would keep the debate gong!
Interesting post though, I think you once commented to me that the internet is a cess pit, unfortunately so is most football stadia. I genuinly do think I am lucky in the south stand as you get little of that stuff, away games though, boy oh boy.
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Bhoydell @5.18
I always understood that we were not citizens, but were subjects of the crown
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also at game for 1st gime in a while (celt in exile) & heard faint boos when Bobo touched the ball on the 1st occasion after the goal.
Totally disagree with it but think it was due to frustration from a few fans (no doubt the contract shenaningans over the last 6 months have also contributed).
Is the fact that we have some 'undesirable' fans not just representative of wider society (ie. if you took any 60,000 from a cross section of the population you would get a certain percentage of idiots). Also many people are 'haly empty' rather than 'half full' hence Bobo's mistake could ultimately have cost us the league (& indeed you could argue that this happpened last season when any msitake which cost us point did probbaly cost us the league).
Anyway it was Ciaran's mum's first visit to Celtic Park (she's Indo Saxon) & she really enjoyed it
Hail hail
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awnawgubbedagain @05:13 - Well spotted, why did the young man write to Paul?
Vinniethedog - Condolences on your loss.
Ciarans dad - what's Indo-Saxon?
Be carefull, the PC boys will be after you for racial categorization.
From a cold and very, very wet PNW
Oregonbhoy
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tea and scones anyone?
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Vinniethedog: Condolences.
At a particularly poor friendly (vs Spurs) during Liam Brady’s tenure as Celtic manager, I can recall being obliged to move around the Rangers end 2 or 3 times because of the foul-mouthed abuse being ranted by way of “criticism” of the standard of play by hooped-scarved knuckledraggers. Eventually rather than concentrate on the dreadful game we ended up listening to banter between a young guy from Glasgow who was jousting verbally, and good-naturedly, with an old boy from Fife who’d begun to moan about the money he’d wasted watching the poor, poor show in front of us:
Young guy: So what else would you have done with the money?
Old guy: I could’ve got myself a nice bit of fish.
YG: For the price of that ticket plus your bus you could’ve got yourrself a wee steak maybe.
OG: A right big steak, you mean.
YG: How would you prepare your steak?
OG: Well, let me see, I’d ….
This went on for about 15 mins and entertained not just me (I’m generally easily pleased) but all those round about, including several previously VERY bored kids.
So what’s your point, caller?
Well, rubbish matches and poor individual performances have always been around and always will, and boorish, disgraceful behaviour by fans is nothing new. What is new is the inability promptly and voluntarily to distance oneself from such knuckledraggers. Williebhoy’s 3:04 post about the reintroduction of a terracing area seems to me to have the most merit of all the suggestions to date. To think that the club is readily set to investigate hundreds of uncorroborated complaints of poor behaviour is unrealistic, and IMHO will be conducive to more trouble between fans. Maybe non-specific seats (ie just the right to occupy one of 400-600 seats within a block) would encourage birds of a feather to flock together?
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Subterranean, good call on the Social Charter.
Gordon, agree, respect, or the lack of it, is a major social issue.
BhoyDell, you have hit an interesting point there. The Internet is a cesspit, and perhaps most football stadia are also. Both offer the individual relative anonymity.
As many have already said here; this is our club, and it is up to us to ensure its future.
I had never heard about the Ibrox/St Mirren riot in 1962. Is it possibly the same guys still causing the problems :-)
Oregonbhoy, my correspondent wrote after a comment I made along these lines. It was my decision not to publish his name.
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Bhoydell, I'm with you mate.
There are more than enough Celtic songs for us to sing without dragging "Political" crap into our repertoire.
To the people who come from what might be described as a pro IRA standpoint; remember that the club want nothing to do with this viewpoint.
Support Celtic and leave your political views outside the stadium.
By the way Bhoydell; I'm Scottish, of Irish parents; and never in a million years am I British.
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all in all a sad tale related here, i guess its a voice of minority that struggles to be heard against the louder voice of the oppressors.
i can only offer the words of Martin Niemoeller...
much repeated in Christy Moores ' yellow triangle' song...
First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me--
and there was no one left to speak out for me.
i have felt like this myself at celtic park...but ruminating about its alcohol related psychosis i realised its a bigger problem now.
Stand for one and all before they take us all away i guess. sympaties brother, may you enjoy your games again
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Guys,
Just so everyone is clear, like most people on this site, I consider myself Scottish (and I have an Irish background), I was simply making the point, like it or not we are technically British. This came about through the premise that the future for Celtic will be in a British league, I for one hope that when that happens and we have more than one realistic opponent, we can leave that IRA baggage behind, however I doubt it.
Paul is correct on anonymity, people say that you would get the jail for shouting this stuff in Sauchiehall Street, in Sauchiehall Street you don't have that anonymity, so don't give them it a Celtic Park either, point them out.
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Paul...re the Ibrox riot in 1962. It was in the Scottish Cup semi-final and we had actually beaten them 5-0 on the previous Monday evening at Love Street in the League. We had also beaten them 7-1 earlier in the season at home!We were 3 goals down after about half an hour and my recollection is that our captain, Duncan McKay (a great full-back - see previous posts), had made a big mistake in deciding to shoot into the very strong wind.I seem to recall that Willie Fernie was in the St Mirren side that day. Anyway, as I remember, fighting broke out at the "Rangers end" among the Celtic fans and it soon spread to the Celtic end. Bottles and cans were hurtled down the terracings and very soon the supporters poured on to the pitch with the result that the referee had to take the teams from the field. Police horses were called into action and all in all it was a black day for the club. The teams did re-appear and Alec Byrne actually pulled one back for us however I believe that Robert Kelly had already conceded the game to St Mirren in the pavilion. Rangers won the other semi that day at Hampden and went on to beat St Mirren 2-0 in the final.
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"I don’t think that there is necessarily something special
about Celtic.......Anyway, this season will be my last as a season book holder, perhaps even a
Celtic supporter........I do not want to have to proscribe to a particular
philosophy or ideology to be a Celtic fan.......I just want to support a football
team."
We all know the atmosphere is dead at home games and there are an unforunately high number of permanently malcontented people about, but I can't believe the sympathy this guy is getting after writing pap like the above.
If what he wrote genuinely reflects his feelings towards Celtic I hope he doesn't let the door hit his bum on the way out.
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bhoydell 10.15 >why do you wish your baggage left behind to idealise a 'britishness ' albeit on a technicality?
dont wanna go down a long long road but these terms are mutually exclusive :-)
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Aldo67
I think you misunderstand. Our future (if our friend Paul is correct re Glazer) will be in a revised British league. I don't care less if its called the British Premier league (although I prefer that to the English Premier league).
What I hope we leave behind is the terracing terrorists that I am associated with every time I go to an away game. I don't support what any terrorist organisation does, IRA or not, and I don't want associated with them through my football team. When we go to the "big" league I hope we can be a big, mature club.
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listening to alan green - that english ulsterman, or is he british bhoydell ;-)on radio 5 tonight. joe cole dived. he dsecribed it along the lines as an unfortunate part of his game. rewind to the world club thing where he spewed for minutes at a time about some south american who was "cheating, just plain cheating". amazing how the british players, like owen, shearer et al are not plain cheats, when they indulge in a bit of gamesmanship. did this guy comment on the seville game - would be interested to hear his portrayal of deco & co.
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again on 5 - they mentioned how robbie keane name was booed by the baggies fans because of his association with wolves - many moons ago . why aren't the of allowed to boo former players of the other side without it being called bigotry ?
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bhoydull> i misunderstand nothing.thank you for your enlightenment.
spikeysauldman> thats the way that it is..think i will watch the ' hand of god' goal again just to remind me how nice it is to 'get it right up them ' :-)
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Ok Spikeysauldman, the booing of Niel Lennon by opposition fans, part of the game or bigotry?
Also, I have never been so angry as I was that night in Seville by Marihno and his divers, can't bear to even look at his when he is interviewed
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No Aldohhh67 you most certainly understood.
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It totally dismays me that so many people have stories to tell and I have one too. The only plus point is I know that the guy in question doesn't sit in seat Block 143 Row Q Seat 9 every week. And it's also made me resolve to report incidents to stewards in future. I should have done it on Saturday, but you know, I didn't want to cause a fuss etc, etc.
After a whole 65 minutes or so of complete drivel from this maniac he comes out with the particularly choice comment of calling Shunsuke Nakamura a "Japanese B******".
I promise you all it's the last time I'll let such a thing go.
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unadulterated bigotry by the usual suspects - tfod, motherwell, hearts
bogeyman stuff versus aberdeen
and dont get me started on total cnuts like gordon waddell of the sunday mail.
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Anyway, its been interesting trying to educate you all but still game has just started so cheerybye now!
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As someone pointed out earlier, if you were to take a population cross section of society of 60,000 peeps theres gonna be a few bad apples.
The curse of inappropriate labelling by the ' unintelligensia' always is a cross to bear.
Every day in my job i come across examples of this maladaptive and negative thinking.It is society wide and eductaion is the only way forward.
One mans asylum seeker is another mans ' dole grabber'. a teenage single mum is another mans 'state sponger' etc etc ad nauseum....
Also someone mentioned respect here earlier, thats sadly lacking nowadays.
arent the policemen getting younger... i remember leaving my front door unlocked....i used to be able to leave my prawn sandwich in the south stand while i answered a call of nature without fear of someone running off with it ..etc etc
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boredell> who exactly did you educate??? are we here for your entertainment and education??? HUH?>???
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is it just me or is bhoydull related to Danny Fishcharge?
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Unfortunately, what is a valid and worthy topic of discussion has once again degenerated in to an opportunity for those with a chip on their shoulder to turn the whole thing in to a forum to express their own particular religous/political/social prejudice.
Sweeping generalisations, stereotyping and pigeon holeing often does little to further any debate.
I am particularly bemused by the hypocrisy of Sean South, who has in the recent past has piously chastised other bloggers for their views on religion/sectraianism etc. yet is now willing to ascribe all the ills of modern football to "the MIDDLE CLASS who see football as a HOBBY and not a cradle-to-grave COMMITMENT OF THE WORKING CLASS".
Sweeping generalisations, stereotyping and pigeon holeing (not to mention patronosing) captured in one concise sentence.
Well done, Sir.
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The best way to tackle the profanities is to comment more ourselves at the matches. Get in first with criticisms like tumshie and away in the hoose and other daft football sayings to entertain the wee yins rather than them having to listen to the sweary words all the time.
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Supercelt @6:12
Did the huns not score a goal - a penalty I think - in the 4th minute of the final league game after Seville, when only 3 minutes had been added?
Double standards from Dignity FC
Suprise suprise!
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Ah Aldo67, the refuge of the uneducated, insult's.
see ya.
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On another note, and slightly related to the Real Madrid having trouble with diddy teams comment from earlier. I think there's a general feeling that because Rangers have plumbed new depths of mediocroty the rest of the league have followed suit.
It's not the case and I think it's worth remembering that it's not just Heart and Hibs that are showing improvements, so there's always the chance that we'll get the odd hard game that we don't expect.
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bhoydull>aint uneducated. best go watch ' still game' while you still are.....*hugs*
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GM> i didnt put a pidgeon in a hole....it was a dove that simply flew into a space in the brickwork.phew!!!
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1:00 PM, vinniethedog - I am sorry for your loss, take care of yourself.
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Hi Every 1.…………………………….
Sorry 2 be a wee bit offff topic………………
Well I cant help it…………………..but……
Has any 1 noticed……………………………..
Supercelt has gone all……………….
Well……………………………….........
Normal……………………………
SUPERCELT……………………………….....
GET A GRIP MAN…………………..
Come on…………………………
don’t turn 2 the dark side……………………..
JoewhoISstrongwithTHEforce
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Vinnie @0100 PM………………………………......
Sorry I missed you’re earlier post…………………
I am sorry to hear about the loss of you’re father………
A father is a huge figure to any man…………….
You always look up to him when you are young………….
He is the superman off all DADS………………
I lost my dad 14 years ago………………………..
But I now look back and rejoice his life………….after the grieving is over…………………………..
I am sure that given some time……………you will get over youre loss……………………………….
Its true, but life goes on…..
Live long and prosper Vinnie………………….
Bigjoe……………………………..
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I have just wasted an hour or something reading this drivel.
Get over yourselves, Aldo67, Bhoydell, spikesAuldMan, Pujol, Georgiebohy, EKBHOY68!
Nonsense, pathetic nonsense.
I’m in agreement with you GM.
These fellas have chips with everything.
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ryesammy why dont you write something then.....
Vinnie, big joe just put into words many of our thoughts. TC
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Vinnie...so sorry to hear of your father's passing. My Dad passed away this year. As BigJoe says, it's a tough one.
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ryesammy - may the force be with you.
skywalker
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go on then ryesammy be specific or was that a sweeping generalisation.
lets cash in the chips
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sorry to hear about your father passing away Vinnie.
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i agree with someone else about something he wrote about some other people
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I read a lot earlier and have just returned.
Thought it had the look of a topic that the less enlightend might drag in to their corner.
I always enjoy insight from others on certain matters- here is what some had to say about this :
The probability that we may fail in the struggle ought not to deter us from the support of a cause we believe to be just.
Perfect as the wing of a bird may be, it will never enable the bird to fly if unsupported by the air. Facts are the air of science. Without them a man of science can never rise.
I have seen gross intolerance shown in support of tolerance.
We shall support whatever the enemy opposes and oppose whatever the enemy supports.
Support the strong, give courage to the timid, remind the indifferent, and warn the opposed.
bryan
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Now that the breastbeating appears to have died down:
Dontbrattback - previous thread - removal of Bobo's Harlem Globetrotters collection will NOT do the trick. The Livi game offers irrefutable proof that Bobo is modelling his displays on Peter Boyle's famous version of "Putting on the Ritz" in Young Frankenstein.
Either that, or his boots are the problem, and Al Obundy can help him (and us all) out.
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Vinnie,
Your auld man's done his job well, may God rest his soul. Sad though it is to accept, he has raised his children in the proper manner. Now his time has come.
But he will never leave you. You will always hear his voice in your head at those crucial junctures in life when you need to be pointed in the right direction.
It's a plain fact of life that it will come to all of us in time. All that we can hope is that the children we leave behind have good manners, love in their heart and respect for all.
Some may choose to spend their lives moaning about those who have none of these qualities. I prefer to pity them and, unfashionable as it may be in this day and age, pray for them.
But it is for a completely different reason that I'll say a prayer for yourself and your family tonight, Vinnie. I lost my own dad to the shipyard curse of asbestosis, so I know the sense of emptiness you will be feeling.
Funnily enough, my dad was one of the biggest moaning-faced Celtic fans I've ever seen. I remember him getting involved in a rammy going back to the "Auld Lizzy" pub in the Gorbals in the early 1970s because he blamed Billy McNeill for losing a goal against Aberdeen.
Vinnie, I bet you and your dad had good wee rammies about Ra Sellik. I bet they bring a smile to your face now.
That's why this legacy of supporting Celtic is not a transitory fad to be cast aside because of a minority of loudmouthed morons.
What we have as Celtic fans is a privilege earned by our predecessors. We must defend it with pride... and courage.
Reporting idiots to the stewards is our duty.
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SpikeysAuldMan, Aldo67,
I confess, some sweeping of generalisations!. There are many a good things said, even by those with whom I disagree. That’s the quality of this blog. Apologies if I came over a bit aggressive. There are a few niggles in your and some others’ posts that relate to my regretful outburst…
1. People babbling on about Ireland, Irish/British politics and religion in the context of Celtic – no-one gives a monkeys, and non-Celts think we’re bonkers for going on about it.
2. The establishment being out to get us – the press, the radio, the TV, the referees, the Scottish Executive, ex Celtic players, the Chuckle Brothers and Mrs Orangesash at no. 34. – They aren’t! To actually believe they do spells paranoia and persecution complexes. If, and it’s a big IF, a sports writer REALLY has it in for us, why would should we care? They wouldn’t!
3. We, Celtic, are special. Yes we are special, in the same context that my family are special to me – but that’s because they are mine. Every club is special to their own fans. As it should be. To suggest we are somehow inherently better than others is nothing better than massaging our own ego.
Good to hear from you kos07, watch out for the sand-people (and the cat-people!)
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Hi Paul, any transfer news a head of January,..Did you read Peter Lawell comments today regarding the EPL, European league etc,? have a HAPPY NEW YEAR
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Morning All,
I have brought this issue up on many threads since September when I was last back home and didn't really receive much feedback albeit not in as much detail.
The simple bottom line here is that we have ruined our proud reputation as being the best fans in the world simple. We have blown it due to vile individuals ranging from young to old... the attitude is disgusting and sorry to say we are no better than that other lot........
I remember in the Jungle Gerry Creaney was playing mince against St. Johnstone and their was one guy in front of me giving him an ear bashing when he was taking a throw in "Why are you taking the throw in he says, are you not mean to be a striker??? No yae cannae be coz you have had 2 chances and scored none!!!" with a few F's involved.. Creaney then goes onto to score a peach of a goal (To win the game) and comes upto that 1 fan and rams it right up him after that the guy was attacked with pies and bovrils by the support who were trying to encourage Creaney..... Quality..! that was the last rant and rave you heard from him....
WE NEED TO CUT OUT THE CRAP SUPPORT OUR TEAM AND ANY PLAYER WHO WEARS OUR BELOVED HOOPS. CP IS BECOMING AN ABSOLUTE DISGRACE AS HIGHLIGHTED WITH OUR FELLOW SUPPORTER THAT STARTED THIS THREAD!
Hail Hail
SPC whoisfedupwiththesupport
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ryesammy -
folk do care about ireland - nobody has to - but some do - thats up to them
the establishment you mentioned are not out to get us - you'd be hard pushed to find many celtic fans who agree with you here - certain elements most definitely are - in my opinion of course - agree to differ here
i dont really care about gordon waddell but he does get on my goat - surely you have your own pet hates
and dont recall saying that celtic were better than any other clubs - more along the lines of more than just a football club - doesn't infer better then the rest - just different
but again thats just my humble opinion
all the best
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John Boyle O'Reilly,
I appreciate your kind remarks.
All the best.
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Spikey,
Of course people, myself included, care about Ireland, it's history and tradditions etc. But I think that there is no relevence in blending it's history and politics with Celtic FC. It doesn't make sense today.
Some do believe there is a wider conspiracy out there. And i know I am talking about a minority. It just creates a us and them attitude in Scotland that is, in my opinion, totally unhelpful
My pet hate is next door, barking his heid of.
All the best to you to.
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instead of blaming neds (what does that mean anyway) on the lack of atmosphere at paradise maybe as Keano suggested we should blame the middle class contingent who want to nothing else but moan about the situation.
answer this question.
Before today, how many on here knew about the junglebhoys?
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Agree with Supercelt, good points,get positive
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The BhoyDell,
I'm a wee bit bewildered by some of your comments.
On the one hand you are telling Kano that you think Celtic's history is 'special' and that you wouldn't change it.
Then in the next breath you are calling on us to dump what you describe as 'political baggage'.
This suggests to me you have a rather poor - or selective - knowledge of Celtic's history.
Men like Glass, Shaugnessy and Quillan - the founding fathers of this club - were very politically minded.
They were unashamedly Irish nationalists and possessed a steely determination to fight both privilage and poverty.
Brother Walfrid may have planted the seed but it is these men who ensured the flower bloomed.
The birth of Celtic is rooted in their ideology and ambitions.
This is clearly illustrated very early in the history of the club when at the AGM of 1889 Michael Davitt was made Honorary Patron.
Davitt was a former Fenian who spent the best part of a decade in jail for his part in an arm smuggling operation.
In his lifetime he campaigned and fought against oppresion wherever he found it - Russia, Africa and of course his native Ireland.
His link with Celtic and the club's affinity to his cause was strengthened further in 1892 when he laid a sod of Donegal turf at the opening of the new Celtic Park.
Now this might mean nothing to you and you may question its relevence in the 21st century.
But it is this history and tradition which has made Celtic so much more than just a football club for generations of people.
To you it may be 'political baggage'.
But to many others it is a part of our club's heritage and culture which dates right back to that meeting in November 1887 at St Mary's Church Hall.
If you don't like it then that's fair enough but it does beg the question why on earth you chose to follow a football club that from the very begining had a whole cart load of political baggage.
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bhoydell is into his football - big time - his auld man was in the army and also a big tic fan - that would explain why hes not too fond of the baggage - doesnt make him any more or less of a celtic man imo
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