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That was quick Paul
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Paul,how are Rangers shares trading in relation to Celtic shares in the corresponding period.
Since the share issue I mean.
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Podium?
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3rd??
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So let's make sure they don't qualify.By the time the jambo's come to town, the league should be wrapped up and waiting in this post office.
So maybe we could give them a point just leaving the FOD having to win the champion's league to get in next year!
Sean
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Kirtstymccabecsc,
If being a buckie bhoy means that you appreciated fully Peter Grant´s efforts for his and our beloved hoops then I am proud to be one. I´m sure he never picked a team that he was in at Celtic.
Buckie ! Buckie !
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Just about to post this on the other thread.
On this whole Celtic class argument, there was once a player who played for Celtic and by his own admission was far from top class his name was Jock Stein, now today if a player of the same level signed from a welsh team would he be Celtic class.
Surely a team is made up of players of varying skill levels sent out to play specific roles within that team with the ultimate aim of complimenting the style of play of said team.
Some will be more skilful individuals than others but overall the main function of each is to do the job to the best of their ability for that team.
Pat
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Travelbhoy - I would agree up to a point. Just remember - there were spivs and liars walking the earth long before accountancy was invented! (if the shoe fits Darth Murray.... )
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Never particularly liked Peter Grant but then I can't remember a Celtic team that has ever been perfect - and anyway its the Managers job thats on the line if he doesn't put out the best team not mine.
Buckie - never - I was a 4-Crowns man in the late 70's. Always wondered what it would taste like now.
The press have/will enjoy the headline profit at RFC - however this is just another thing to hoodwink the masses. I am constantly amazed at what you can and cannot do with accounts. There is little or no chance of the masses (including me) being able to challenge these headliners. Accountants have a lot to answer for!
TB
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Paul67 a couple of things,
You didn't answer this question when I commented before, so i'm sure it will be the same!
Why did DD manage to increase his percentage ownership in Celtic, when the offer was fully/over subscribed!
The Rangers interims I believe are for six months a T/O of 6.5M+ per month, close to the top ten of World Football Financial performers - Surprised Deliottes missed that!!!
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Giz A Huddle,
Jock Stein not Celtic class??? was Too young to see him play but apparently he did ok by us - Ma Faither used to watch him for Albion Rovers and said he was ok for them also!!
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Guys, can I respectfully suggest that we move on from the Peter Grant argument? Paul has posted a particularly thought provoking article that I am trying to understand the ramificantions of.
God forbid that Peter as a Celtic fan might be looking at these pages with some of the things that are being said about him.
Paul, how come Rangers are allowed to hide information as blatantly as they appear to be doing here and get away with it?
Also how can Murray reasonably claim to have shown a profit with no balance sheet to back this up? I'm assuming that we are talking about an operating profit which they have the champion's league to thank. Is it a fair bet to say that without this year's CL success they would have been operating at a loss?
Seems grim!
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Also, what is the significance of the huns being traded on the OFEX market?
Cheers.
NatureBhoy.
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I challenge the proponents of the 'Celtic class' argument to tell me how many Celtic teams since 1967 were made up entirely of 11 'Celtic class' players.
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I liked peter grant, was a solid plyer that always played for the jersey and gave everything he had for the club. My best memory of him was when we played kilmarnock at celtic park, think it was the first season back at parkhead after the north stand had been built, killie were 2 - 0 up with 10 or 15 mins left of the first half. Peter grant pulled one back and after that i went down to get 4 pies and 4 bovrils for me my dad and his two mates. We were sitting in north stand upper quite near the back, and as i came back up the stairs and shuffled along my row to sit down and hand the pie n bovrils out peter grant equalised with his second and if my memory is correct im pretty sure it was a 20 yard screamer, in which i through the pie and bovrils all over the 2 guys in the row in front of me to celebrate the goal unintentionally of coarse, was just a natural thing to do was to celebrate. I was ecstatic that we had pulled the game back to 2 -2 but im sure the guys in front of me didnt celebrate the goal as much as i did. Sorry guys.
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Travelbhoy, the Team
Ronnie Simpson (Goalkeeper)
Jim Craig (Left back)
Tommy Gemmell (Right back)
Bobby Murdoch (Right half)
Billy McNeill (Captain, Centre half)
John Clark (Left half)
Jimmy Johnstone (Outside right)
William Wallace (Inside right)
Stevie Chalmers (Centre forward)
Bertie Auld (Inside left)
Bobby Lennox (Outside left)
John Fallon (substitute Goalkeeper, not used)
Jock Stein (Manager)
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Chairbhoy
Watch Gemmell's goal from Lisbon again...
Jim Craig (RB)
Tommy Gemmell (LB)
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Sorry ment to add, we went on to win 4-2 that day.
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Sorry, posted this a minute ago, seems to have disappeared.
Paul, what is the significance of rangers being traded on OFEX?
Cheers.
NatureBhoy.
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guys,
agree fully with Paul's remarks about Magic. I think a few people weren't pushed on him cos here got the no.7 jersey. he is proving to be a class act and long may it continue. if you recall a certain H Larsson scored a mere 16 goals in his first season (he was not playing as an out and out striker that year). i think it is a negative aspect of these chat sites that we can voice our disproval all to quickly. some of the comments about 1st teamers this season has been disappointing especially Wallace. as for Peter Grant you can't go slagging him off. PG was a celtic legend who gave his all. you can't rewrite the past so leave him be. i'll never forget his cup final performance in95 and his tears at the end. i met him after the millwall v west ham game and he chatted with me for ages about the hoops. you can't beat the passion of the guy
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KANO
DONT KNOW IF YOU WERE ON THE OTHER NIGHT
BUT BARCAMOLE WAS ASKING FOR YOU
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Kano, there is practically no movement in Rangers shares.
Bilbo, I am with you on lifting the atmosphere, but the fix needs to be simple, or it will not work. The ‘order of service’ would miss the mark.
NatureBhoy, OFEX is a market where private limited companies can sell their shares.
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I fail also to see the significance of Paul67´s new thread here. Seems like old news to me. What´s new ?
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A profit and loss with no Balance Sheet is totally an utterly meaningless.
A very simple example:
Rangers are due to play Villarreal, income from this tie could be as much as £5m (gate receipts, TV, pooled advertising etc). So include the income in the turnover in your accounts for positive spin. Reasoning: It was earned through qualification in the period to December so include in December accounts. Reason enough to get past a pathetic auditor anyway.
How would we know this had been done? The Balance Sheet would show accrued income. But we don't have a Balance Sheet.
My guess is Rangers have estimated and accrued a CL last 16 windfall.
Expect the year end accounts to show a stonking loss as last 16 qualification showing a £6m profit will all be eaten away with a 6 month period of defeat, no CL money, no cup money, general depression affecting merchandising and lower attendances when scrapping with Hibs and Kilmarnock for 3rd place is the only fare.
The propaganda circus, of which these "accounts" are just a small part, is all news management and self promotion in the grand dollar chase. To be fair to Zsa Zsa the fish are there in the barrel to be shot at and he's holding the blunderbuss.
The compliance costs Celtic suffer under the AIM are worth every penny in my opinion. (well for saddos like me who read the accounts!). If you are going to be as passionate about something as we all are the least we deserve is the truth. Whether you are for, against or indifferent to our board at least wee Fergus left us the legacy of receiving the truth every year (even if he did withold his cash for the youth academy).
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thismancraig,
Thanks for the correction! WHAT A GOAL my all time........well you know!
Paul67: Di'nae think so!
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if there was a suspected influx of cash at the R****rs wouldnt their shares show some sort of fluctuation due to this. or does the market know bull**** when it it hears it.
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Chairbhoy - with what I now know I agree with you - unfortunately for me I started watching (TV first) Celtic in May 1970 and not seriously until 1974/5 so missed many of greats.
22/2/04 Celtic won their 24th (?) game in a row to beat Partick Thistles (?) previous record.
TB
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With reference to the previous article:
The Scottish football media’s treatment of Zurawski when he arrived at Celtic was classic lazy journalism. Celtic had just signed Poland’s top striker and major contributor to the Polish National side’s fantastic achievement of qualifying for the 2006 World Cup alongside England, regarded by many as favourites to win the tournament only behind Brazil. Yet in Scotland, the pundits lined up to rubbish the player before hardly a ball had been kicked in earnest for Celtic: Gordon Smith, as an agent, was offered the player but did not rate him, Davy Provan did not think he “looked a player” and the legend that is Hugh Keevins described Zurawski as “Jacki Dziekanowski without the talent”. Now Jacki was indeed a colourful and sublime footballing talent; his four amazing goals in that berserk, heart breaking Partizan Belgrade loss will forever ensure his place in Celtic folklore. However, the harsh truth is that Jacki was an inconsistent player whose performances rapidly deteriorated perhaps in direct relation to his legendary social activities. The record books show that he was at Celtic for 2.5 seasons (1989 – 1992), making 49 league appearances and scoring the grand total of 10 league goals. It is fair to say that Celtic were a poor side at that time and suffering terribly under the then custodians [sic] management [sic]. In contrast to Jacki, Maciej has scored 15 goals (12 league, 3 Cups) in 17 appearances. But why would Hugh or any of his esteemed colleagues let the facts stand in the way of a cheap, throwaway line?
I remember the great Polish players of the 1970’s and early 1980’s such as Lato, Deyna and Boniek. Like most Eastern European countries, the fortunes of their club and national teams suffered either side of the break up of the Soviet Bloc. However, Poland as a football nation is on the rise again and I was thrilled at the prospect of their top striker joining Celtic. So far, Maciej is fulfilling my expectations and more.
There is a remarkable similarity in Maciej’s treatment with the welcome the Scottish press afforded Lubo Moravcik on his arrival at Celtic. Basically, Celtic sign unknown and aging Slovakian. For me this was not a case of “never heard of him” but rather that I had forgotten all about him. Simple research reminded me that Lubo had been one of the stars of the great Czechoslovakian national side of the late 1980’s and early 1990’s, under the guidance of one of Europe’s most respected coaches, Dr Josef Venglos. Czech hopes in Italia 90 were effectively ended at the quarter final stage when Moravcik was sent off in a narrow 1-0 defeat at the hands of the eventual winners, West Germany. A skilful and hot-headed player in his early years, Lubo’s career post Italia 90 was derailed to some extent through unfortunate transfer choices and injury. We all know what he went on to do for Celtic. And how the press came to love our Slovakian star ;-) . Furthermore, I will always consider the treatment that Dr Josef suffered at the hands of the uninformed and lazy Scottish football press as one of the most shameful and ignorant episodes in their increasingly inglorious history.
Unfortunately, it remains the case that the majority of those interested in football still receive most of their football information via the traditional media, with all its agendas and sadly, rapidly declining standards. Vive la change!
Chris
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Interviewer to Lubo via interpreter after the 5-1 game...
'How does it feel to go from zero to hero?'
'Tell him I was never zero'
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Chris- very true. Sometimes I listen to Keevins and wonder if he is clever enough to have an agenda, or if he is simply thick.
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Travelbhoy,
seem to recall Morton holding the record we were chasing.
Obviously not a Premier League record but Scottish record in all leagues.
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Barcamole,
are we out there?
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Dont know if Flanders is thick or not, but i do know he thinks the fans/listeners are thick.Sadly too many fall into his trap.
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Subterranian - excellent post sir.
thinmancraig - that sums up the press in this country for me. Ignorance in the extreme with all things concerned with Celtic. Repeated recently with the 'Had you heard of Clyde before you came to Celtic?' question thrown at Virgo. Of course when its a rankers player it changes to 'Why are you so good?'
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subterranian
your point about the treatment of dr jo was excellent.
Dr Jo was a great Celtic manager, albeit for one season. It took him a slow 3 month intro, but then he had Celtic playing unbelievable football and winning easily.
Sadly, many of our fellow supporters took the same viewpoint of the Scottish media.
I have always been bemused at the treatment he recieved - and still does!
Ternar
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Excellant post Subterranean and a brilliant reply italiabhoy although you did let yourself down a wee bit with the giveaway "sometimes I listen to Keevins" -why bother listen? We all know the truth in what you say about this 'journalist'. Leave him to talk to himself.
bdb
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Why are so many folks talking about the press and the phone in shows and these 'shock jocks'.....see them for what they are minipulative provocateurs.
No point in going on and saying 15 goals for Majec v 10 for Jacki make Jacki a better player etc....They have won because you show you are interested and listening to their show, you give them the oxygen they crave....in short you are 'rising to their bait'.....
I have to laugh though when they talk of GS being disrespectful to journalists and they say most Celtic fans think he is. Gudi has his petted lip out and Keevins et al rally round and say Strachan will get a hard time when going gets tough....
GS gets a hard time anyway and I think it is great that he does not pander to this lot. I only hope the true Celtic 'supporters' do see through the nonsense when GS does have a hard time. The Balde witchunt was shocking pre Xmas and the Majec one just as bad.
These radio folks are not stupid, just using Celtic and it's less intelligent fanbase to make money for themselves. It is that simple.
IGNORE THEM.
Awe Naw No Annoni etc
What makes you suggest the players you identified earlier were CL class any more than current ones ? MON team record in CL suggests that in 3 years Celtic did not qualify from groups and in another year they did not even qualify for groups ? Current team went out in qualifier in 1st competitive game and without a fullsquad.
Glass Half Full
I have my half Villareal Half Celtic scarf ready for visit to Ibrox tomorrow night. I do not reckon they will be selling too many half Vilareal Half Rangers somehow ?
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once again another cover up by tfod on their financial state!
the press put out a positive headline and story about them and then move on. no questions asked!
regarding phone in's and panels i think the thing that annoyed me when i used to listen to them was that there was no one on the panel who would turn round to keevins, traynor, gordon smith or euan cameron and say "you are talking utter nonsense".
the frustration in knowing they had the platform to spew out utter drivel about our team, manager and supporters made me turn off and never go back.
try it. you'll feel a whole lot better
Emjay
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Re Dr Jo.
Did he not take over Celtic in the year directly after the World Cup where we had something like 14/15 players at the competition.
The players started lethargic but once we got past the first few months of the season we started to give teams a real humpin' including TFOD.
He was a very underestimated man by us all.
Did Joke Brown not appoint him, also? Maybe that is why the fans never took to him?
We live and learn
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Seems as if Spiers is daring to mention what most of us are thinking again.Well some of it.
Spiers
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bdb- you're right. I am weak.
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Zurawski
I can recall his first couple of games and my initial reaction was WOW! Maybe it was just me and Bobby Lennox??
His runs were superb, constantly flashing across the back 4 and into space for a pass. Problem was the passes were not coming to match the runs. Therefore, to those only looking for the final product (shot at goal), it may have looked limited.
Never mind: that would come with practice and more playing together.
He is not a Larsson or Cadete. He is a different style of striker. His game is based on movement and acceleration, relying on good midfield understanding and passing. Much closer to the favoured euro strikers at the highest level currently.
I had absolutely no doubts we had landed a cracker. He's shaping up nicely for europe next season.
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Burnley,
we have to give those players currently playing for Celtic who have not featured in the CL the chance to at least assess them at that level.To make assessment on Zurawski at SPL level does not give any real indication how he will truly perform at a much higher level. All I offered was my assessment of the MON players who I believe performed satisfactorily and consistently at that level for us. I also highlighted where I think the weak links were at that level within MON´s sqaud.At first team level Balde, Hartson ,Jackie Mac, Agathe etc
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I was watching Offside on Daily record TV last night turned over to John Cravens Scotsport and at least 4 people mentioned "when" Le Guen arrives. I then started surfing the teletext pages for some breaking news that I had missed. Nothing !! Not a Peep. Just Watty Smith resting Rangers players for the run in and choosing as many Hearts and hibs players he can get his hands on. Not much changes in Scotland I see. The Lion Rampant should be replaced with the bouncing Lemming
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What's happened to the bins??!!!
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Chairbhoy,
The Rangers stuff I don't know about so won't comment.
With regards to the Celtic share issue. DD had underwritting £10m worth of the total £15m share issue.
Therefore, he was hoping for other shareholders to take up £5m of shares.
From my understanding the expectation was oversubscribed. I don't know the exact figures, however, say other investors took up £8m and DD £7m, DD had increased his percentage shareholding and the issue was oversubscribed against expectation.
Not sure how accurate this is but I hope it helps.
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Roncelt - I thought Dermot was committed to £5mil assuming that the other £10mil was taken up?
Meaning it was inevitable that his shareholding would increase (hence the egm to waive the automatic takeover bid requirement).
Again, I'm speculating!
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italiabhoy - I have a confession too, I clicked on a (whisper it) Daily Record link on News Now today (The Charlie Christie headline about stuffing the Celts) so I will join you and resolve to strengthen myself against these forces that seek to undermine our movement...aah that feels better!!
bdb
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whit bins?
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Kano I have my bin if you need it?
bdb
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blantyrekev.....i agree that releasing figures without a balance sheet is worthless....however given what we do know it seems turnover has gone up by £9 million and costs have gone up by £8 million....
the picture for the second half looks distinctly gloomy and i would forecast and overall loss of somewhere around £6 million...
as a final point i would bet a glass of something light and sparkly that Rangers are still paying the full funding cost of the £50 million that MIH injected in the last share issue, probably through a management charge....although that might be too transparant for his dodginess..
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Awe naw noo
Interesting that you view Balde as not making the mark. surely everyone is allowed 1 mistake at this level. I remember standing freezing in Lyon after being 10 mins away from qualification and cursing him, but I have heard folks blame him for goals at Munich from where I was sitting in main stand I was sure they were directly mistakes from Stan V.
I also remember mostly really dominant almost intimidating performances both home and away in CL.
Maybe I have missed one or two though. I know it is popular in the media to get ripped into Bobo, i am not sure if the facts do justify it. I love him at Ibrox which i know is not CL and I certainly do not know how we will replace him next year.
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The ones that appear beneath your comments if you want to "bin" them
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aahh there they are.
Paul you up to something?
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Burnley78,
are you assuming he won't be here next year?
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Burnley78,
I think Bobo is currently our best defender by a mile. At CL level though you need to be more streetwise - especially playing in the centre. WHile I think he is a good centre half I dont think he has the intelligence to read the game. It wasn´t a CL game but they did become CL champions the year after his sending off in Seville was also another case of bad decision making at that level. His distribution is also lacking. He is the complete destroyer granted but creates very little.I wish he could step out of defence like Roy Aitken could do but you cant teach an old dog new tricks
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ternar & subterranean - i can see a lot of comparisons with Strachans Celtic & that of Dr Jo's - we've seen exciting stuff from both teams, but a fragile element too.
There were undoubtedly some good times under Dr Jo, but there were also times like Vidar Riseth attempting a crossfield pass across his own goal line at McDiarmid Park?
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Bobo was exceptional in the Uefa Cup run and had a great game in the final.
His performance over 2 legs against Michael Owen was flawless (I can recall Owen beating him once).
Also, the last 10 minutes against Boavista seemed to consist only of Bobo winning header after header after header!
He was sent off in the final after 105 minutes for two late tackles(nothing to do with his decision making), which for a defender playing the biggest game off his life against clever opponents is hardly unexpected. How Alan Thompson stayed on the pitch that night I will never know!
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re Zurawski and Keevins comments about Dziekanowski to me Maciej reminds me of Egil Ostenstad, but with talent, ability, pace, finishing, intelligence, skill and panache.
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Hi all. I have to say, I try to stay away from statements like he is/ isn't celtic class etc (at least until the 4th or 5th pint;0)). Mainly because I'm a pants player and have never been involved in coaching/ managing or scouting. That doesn't mean I don't have views on players or WGS's decisions, but considering where we are in the league, post last year, I think the players and WGS's decisions have in the main been right.
Take David Fernandez as an example, he put two past us recently, the 2nd one a very smart piece of play seeing him round Boruc, and some fans grumbled about him not doing it for us. The truth of the matter is; he never got the chance to do it for us. (He was also unlucky having to vie for positions with Henke, Christope and BBJ)
At times we expect instantaneous results I think and that isn't always going to happen. We can't have our cake and eat it too. Some players need time and games and support "to start doing it for us" and we sometimes forget this.
Awe_naw - Of the current squad, Maciej is of the required class to compete in europe (he's done it for legia and his country), i think we'd all agree the same for shaun, naka, keane and boruc. I have high hopes for wilson (especially when he gets to play in his favoured position again). So things are looking well. A LB and CD would help - roll on the summer.
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Burnley78 ,
What most of us want is balanced and informed media output.
Football fans will continue to read newspapers, listen to radio sports programmes, watch television sports programmes, and surf the internet.
When the media output is uninformed or lazy or ignorant or biased or dull then it is important for other sources to provide alternative views, research and present facts, redress the balance, inform the ignorant, conduct open debate, challenge the bias and perhaps even entertain.
It's also about increasing access and choice.
I am not necessarily right or wrong ;-)
Chris
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Chairbhoy, sorry, I missed your earlier question. Applications were received from people (non-sharesholders) who were behind DD in the queue. Existing shareholders got to buy their percentage allotment, then got to buy extra, then others get a chance.
Always up to something Kano.
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BlantyreKev
Spot on. The income statement is the easiest thing to manipulate, especially if you are not bringing out a balance sheet or cash flow statement. I'd go so far as to say the income statement is irrelevant in analysing a company.
Companies often bolster current earnings by declaring income they are going to earn in future in the current year. Alternatively they can also postpone reporting of payments until a later period.
Auditors should flag these things accordingly, of course, but a few rounds of drinks down the lodge can always change their minds ...
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Remember the days when Billy Connoly never used to swear?
pablophanque
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Thismancraig,
I dont think that Bobo needed to make his second late tackle on the halfway line carrying a yellow. That was in my book a bad decision as was the flailing arm against Lyon. Arguably the two biggest games of his Celtic career. Its only my opinion if he was the only weak link in MON´s team I might not be so critical granted. John Hartson in the CL - has he scored for us?
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Lets not forget that Bonner, Nicholas, Mc Clair, TB, Roy Aitken, Mc Stay, Elliot et al never done anything in Europe either and were undoubtedly class. Its about building a team unit and MON done that but at that level any weak spots are identified and exploited.
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ternar....imho you are spot on with the good doctor and it is fergus' big regret of his time at celtic that he didnt appoint him sooner (like 3 years sooner!)
he was underated by us all and the fans were influenced by media sniping about his season at Villa (and conveniently ignored the other 20 years on his cv)
jock brown had a hand in his appointment but jock was never fully accepted by the ''buckie boys''......can't think why :-)
i know , i know , ill stop it......
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Awe_no_Annoni
Off the top of my head I couldn't state Hartsons scoring record in the CL.
I'd consider though his strikes against Liverpool in the UEFA cup at Anfield and away to Celta Vigo as the equivalent.
Also his strike rate against Rangers ranks him as a more effective centre forward than Sutton for example
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And another thing !!!!!!!!!! I seem to recal having two Brazillian Internationalist in our team ???????????? OK, big deal, we all know Brazil hand out caps like confetti............ and play more international/friendlies than any other nation............... but, one had a world cup winner's medal and the other has just captained his team to their first cup success ever, (I think?).
There is NO WAY that Junhinho(sp) wasn't good enough for the spl, as for sheight(sp), this was a classic case of a guy never being given a chance.
As has been said today, yesterday, tomorrow ????????????? Some people will never be happy. I know of no Celtic player who was never shouted at in his whole career.
Support the team or.................?, well, you know.............? One has three prongs, the other is as a result of a cold.
pablophanque
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Dr Jo suffered from the same problem that Zurawski suffered from when he first came to Scotland and something that our comitted professional media outlets lap up. He had a very bad haircut. Now if he had a Derek Riordhan .....
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Hartson scored in Lyon & Barcelona.
He also scored in Vigo & Liverpool, UEFA Cup I know but that Vigo goal got us into Europe after Xmas - for so so long The Holy Grail.
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Sorry, Awe_Naw - I have an inbuilt praise Bobo chip...he doesn't get nearly enough credit in my book.
As for Hartson, not sure of his Champions League record - bearing in mind that he was never 1st choice under Martin O'Neill. I know he scored a rasping drive (!)in Camp Nou if that helps!
His Uefa Cup record was impressive however scoring crucial goals against Vigo (when we looked to be struggling), Stuutgart and most memorably Liverpool.
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Godfather,
It was a genuine question. I rate BBJ and Bobo as pretty similar quality in their respective positions. Great at what they do - NO doubt - but limited.
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just checking to see if I still have a bin
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mine is ok. maybe I have a bin because my posts are generally rubbish!!
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I think the last article was slightly disingenuous as it specifically alludes to us offereing opinions on players in absentia -
some Celtic fans have taken to rubbishing a player before he has played for the club.
No one has booed these players at Celtic Park, so the article must refer to online (eg CQN). Unfortunately the analogy used - Zurawski is a poor one.
There is no doubt in my mind ew suffer from typical island mentality, that is that we do not look beyond our borders and focus only on what happens on our back door. This manifests itself in Celtic's case in the disregard for players/personell we have never heard of. For example, Lubo. Lubo was an out and out sucess years before he came to Celtic. He had proven himself as world class. Unfortunately the hacks in this country (and to an extent some of our fans) decided that as they had never heard of him he must be rubbish. They based it on the fact he didn't play much at MSV Duisburg and Bastia. If they had examined the evidence they would have found out that injury cost him dearly at Bastia and he had a major falling out with the coach at Duisburg (the coach thought Lubo was lazy, Lubo thought the coach was overtraining him) (I'm sure my memory serves me correctly on both fronts). Likewise With Dr Jo Venglos, 10 minutes research would have turned up the excellent credentials of the man. It should be borne in mind again that this was before the research tool known as the internet has spread it's tentacles properly. Zurawski still has to prove himself in Europe, but the signs are very encouraging. Even better is that everything in his past points to him being an excellent player.
If we can learn anything from the above it's that some journalists are lazy, ill educated, neaderthal bigots - and that it's a shame that a few Celtic fans believe what these creatures spout.
The above examples bear little or no relevance to those of Miller and Caldwell. The fans had no conception of the above players. However, most Celtic fans have seen a lot of both Caldwell and Miller. And have been able to appraise heuristically. That is, we have seen these players in action many times. We can come to an informed judgement on both.
Likewise we can add to this opinion the reactions of fans of the other teams -
When we signed Paul Lambert a few friends of mine who were Motherwell fans assured me he was a wonderful player. They were distraught at losing him and thought the world of him. How were Rangers fans about Miller? They were apathetic. Does that mean that he'll be a disaster? Not neccessarily. But for people to harbour doubts as to his quality is more than reasonable. Just as others will have the opposite opinion. Our debate today on the merits of Peter Grant shows that people take different things from players, just as I'm sure they will with Kenny Miller and Gary Caldwell. I've not heard a single poster reffering to the "Celtic minded" myth that perpetuates about some posters opinions, or lack thereof. Partly the reason for this is, as alluded to by Kano, we are confidant that any player or manager that comes to Celtic park will struggle not to be enchanted by the place.
Paul, I doubt you are the sort who wants to stifle free speech, so surely the last blog entry is somewhat uncalled for. All CQN'rs will give Kenny Miller and Gary Caldwell their rabid, unqualified backing whenever our paths cross - of that I'm sure. Equally, many of these same people will harbour legitimate doubts as to the capability of these players.
/p
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Thismancraig,
We´ll agree to disgaree. He may not get enough praise and he certainly gets a lot of unfair abuse but for a man of his ability he cant complain about his wage. For that money I reckon we could shop better.
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Awe_no
It's a fair point but I don't think we should detract from the undoubted quality these players have.
Both Bobo and BBJ (BBJ perhaps not now but certainly over the last few years) would have strolled into most teams in the premiership.
Henrik also suffered from playing in Scotland and was put down because of the lesser league yet continued to score goals against all opposition. He is still scoring goals in the best league in the world.
Most players who are perhps not in the 'galactico' bracket are limited to some extent.
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P8DDY,
Paul Lambert came from Dortmund
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Its not Bobo's fault that he earns a lot.
For the amount we've spent in total on bobo we've got good value.
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P&ddy
Out of interest do you remember if the Hibs fans were distraught or apathetic over KM leaving them to sign for Rangers?
Also were the Duisburg fans distraught or apathetic over Lubo leaving them?
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P8DDY,
I agree entirely with the sentiment of your post and echoes what my posts have been indicating in this thread. I fear Paul does this (e.g al la the Craig Roberts for Rangers thread) to get a reaction. This is lazy journalism Paul, sorry imho and we should refrain from this on CQN -its tabloidesque. However I am aware of your need to cut down costs and bandwidth and hence the more rabid change of thread.Hence my whats new about this finance thread. It seems to be old news to me. Murray cooking the books, Celtic shares worth diddley squat but fluctuating.
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Bobo Balde made countless headed clearances and boots up the park in the last 5 mins + injury time against Benfica away to take us to Seville - some people forget that there are positives and negatives in every player. MON even singled him out in his after match interview.
I'm glad he's still a Celtic player.
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Thismancraig & godfather,
I have to disagree that we shouldn´t let their particular inadequacies distract from their qaulities. For the wage that they are on and where I want Celtic to play, then realistically I believe that we can get better value for our money.Both players deserve their place in the Celtic first team. First team picks in the EPL is an irrelevant scottish obsession as far as I am concerned. It just demonstrates how far we have to go if we really want to be playing CL football second stage every year.
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St-Gris,
when was the last time we played against Benfica ?
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