 Wednesday, February 22, 2006
Wage management necessary for Celtic to flourish
There was one interesting wee comment in Brian Quinn’s statement that attracted my attention:
“[Gordon Strachan] was obliged to work within a budget significantly more restricted than his predecessor".
Celtic lost money for six consecutive years before Gordon Strachan took over, a situation that was far from ‘sustainable’. Despite spending £6.55m on player registrations in the summer, his budget was “significantly more restricted” than Martin O’Neill’s.
Wage levels for first team players had grown beyond a sustainable level, and were considerably more than clubs in our peer group, such as Valencia, PSV Eindhoven, Ajax and Porto.
Players such as Maciej Zurawski, Artur Boruc and Shunsuke Nakamura have been recruited on significantly less money than those who departed last summer, which enabled that £6.55m spend.
If we are to flourish as a football club, we need to be far more frugal with player wages in future than we have in the past.
348 Comments:
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I concur Paul
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podium
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could the time demon worked in my favour?
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first?
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Common sense has returned to the board room...We simply cannot live beyond our means...or we will end up like Leeds. Rangers are well on the way, the mess to be uncovered when Murray eventually is ousted will be much worse than the shambles that wee Fergus found.
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dow.......................
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Never in all my years of reading CQN did I think it would take this long to get a First post. I'd like to thank my IPO, COGECO we did it together... Whats that! you're all waiting with my coat....
Hail Hail
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Would Martin O Neill have done as well as WGS if the timeline had been reversed - i dont think MON could have done any better to be honest.
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Paul,
good article. A couple of things are clear....
First, the balance sheet. If anyone doubts the positive impact that DD has had on Celtic - just imagine that Balance Sheet without his input.
Second, if payroll is down 3 million in the first 6 months, that's a 6 million reduction over the year (all else being equal). A significant drop. Winning the league under these circumstances would be a massive coup. The red tops would have us believe different. Don't let them.
The future is warming up. The one area that we have not yet fully benefitted from is our improved scouting. We signed who we could last summer. We should be better placed this summer - even for fairly cheap deals.
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It just shows that you can get quality players at the right price if you avoid inflated markets like the premiership.I was really pleased to read in the last article that debt was sitting at roughly £13 million.Who knows we could be debt free in a matter of a few years and that excites me more than paying some overrated player 40 grand a week.
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Paul67,
I´ll repost this as I still think its apt to this thread
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/football.cfm?id=273412006&format=send
This should be read by every caring tic fan. Everyone involved should be applauded.
I hope that the reference to Strachan getting the time to implement his ideas refers indirectly to the new scouting network that we have in place. There was reference to this at the beginning of the season. I think the guy place in charge of this was a Mr. Kerr ??? can anyone confirm?
To be honest I dont think we have seen any fruits of this yet. Maybe its a bit too early but I expect to see a few more players arrive this summer and hopefully leave us in good stead two or three years down the line from now.
My only worry from the Boruc incident is that I hope that we are no longer seen as a the conveninet stepping stone to the EPL for some players.
Celtic being Celtic will not keep an unhappy player no matter how well they are compensated. Witness Bobo last summer, but I do hope when it comes to negotating players contracts that we get a larger than normal portion for those players that use us so obviously in this way. I also hope that we do not go down that road again when it comes to wheeling and dealing.
GS has proven that he is a shrewd operator and I criticised MON´s lack of interest in increasing revenue in this way but I do hope that any new financial initiatives does not include us going down the old tried and tested method of selling off our best players every second summer. It´s important to keep the best , pay them their worth and get Celtic where they belong ( a team that competes in the 2nd phase of the cL) every year.
beep beep beep beep beep.. oh that´s my alarm got to get to work.
Hail Hail
Hail Hail
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When I read about these wages we allegedly paid/are paying to MON's old guard I often get this wee feeling we might be being told the whole truth. I just wonder if some of these guys were on much bigger wage packets than we've let on...possibly bonuses?
If we have indeed cut the wage bill dramatically, then the results referred to on the previous thread are quite optimistic..Hey remember I'm not an accountant and have an aversion to figures...except 8 for some reason ;)....
If we keep this level of reduced expenditure for a set period of time, is it likely that the debt will be singnificantly reduced? Or are we still operating at a loss overall?
Also, if we were spending way more than Valencia, what sort of weird wage structure do they have in place if they can keep some fine talents Albelda, Kluivert and the two central midfielders whose names have clean left my head......? Do they pay a (relative) pittance to their lesser lights so as to free up cash for the *stars*?
On to football, what's the latest on Charlie Mulgrew? I read on the beeb he had knee-knack but neglected to remember the severity of it?
Also, I hear whispers of Le Guen being targetted by a well known Premiership Comedy Club. So maybe Guillaume Davies will be the new boss and to be fair, he's done a remarakable job with Preston for the last two years.
FInally, I know this is way of line, but I'm very much looking forward to watching El Barca tonight, not just for Henke, Ronaldinho et al. but also to see the lad Messi and if the hype is true. Some have him down as better than Rooney....big words..let's see how good he is.
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NOOO,
I was gazumping masonictim, but St Gris over took on my blindside!
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Hi Paul67,
"....our peer group, such as Valencia, PSV Eindhoven, Ajax and Porto".
I am aware that this is the level we are at in terms of finances. I know you aren't sitting around scratching yer butt but how far away are we from those in the elite group of European clubs when the TV money is stripped away?
I'd like to congratulate BQ, PL and DD for the financial state of our club. It is a great credit to them, but I wouldn't underplay the role you and CQN have played in helping us all to understand the finances a bit more too.
Lastly, I think the first post thing is childish...but I wouldn't mind getting one....just so I could say I did! :-)
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Paddybhoy,
You're right, this first post thing is childish - So that makes me a 43 year old child, but i dont care coz i wont ever bother about getting pipped at the post anymore.
It was a pure dead brullyent accident as well so it wiz.
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Mulgrew out injured for a month
Dundee United defender Charlie Mulgrew
Charlie Mulgrew is out of the Under-21 game with Iceland
Dundee United will be without 19-year-old full-back Charlie Mulgrew for at least a month.
Mulgrew, on loan from Celtic, suffered a knee injury after scoring twice in the 4-2 defeat by Inverness Caledonian Thistle at the weekend.
And United player-manager Craig Brewster told the Dundee Evening Telgraph: "Charlie has torn a cartilage and will be out for the next month."
Mulgrew will also be forced to withdraw from the Scotland Under-21 squad.
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Our wages under MON were substantially higher because he bought nearly exclusively from the these shores
Thompson, Sutton, Douglas, Agathe, Lennon, Hartson, Sylla, Laursen, Guppy, Fernandez, Camara, Varga, Juniniho
The only execptions I could think of were, Joos and Bobo.
The wages from down south will be significantly more expensive than from Poland for example plus MON was very good at getting his players onto higher wages once they had become part of his "clique.
Will it just be me or will the club be happy to further reduce the wage bill with the exit of possibly Thompson and BBJ in the summer?
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Ghood mhornin from a post Rock n’ Roll, Rolling Stones, Rio (de Janeiro),
Not been on for a wee while due to work commitments and a general sense of bewilderment at some of the recently pervading threads of churlishness that’s been appearing – still it’s a free world, etc, etc.
So today, inspired by Estadio’s eloquence and the memories prompted by Gavil Guy’s, 02:59 reference to “Mr J.J. Dick’s legendary Lochgelly leather products” which made the schoolday welts (re)appear on my wrists, I thought I’d attempt to ask a searching question about our current financial direction (apologies if this has been discussed before). So here goes………
………….one thing that bothers me about the whole Nike deal, lucrative thought it obviously is, is the following - Anybody read Naomi Klein’s “No Logo” (it’s a bit, IMHO, overly eco warrior which came out c. 2000 – so is probably well inaccurate now)? Basically, this book associates companies, like Nike, to being brand rather than product orientated and in doing so their financial thinking drives the morality of their manufacturing stategy. Hence the advent of Economic Free Trade Zones in the Far East (or as they’re probably better known – sweatshops).
Now I don’t know how much Nike, or any other of these ‘branded” companies have progressed since this book came out but it does pose the moral question (assuming things haven’t changed that much) about buying products from a brand orientated ogre (ie Nike) for a “brand” (ie. Celtic) which has a tradition (in my mind) of “liberte, egalitie, fraternitie”.
Or to put it starkly, IF Nike still has a track record of questionable business/manufacturing ethics how can fair minded Celtic fans condone buying their products?
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Paul,
What I like about this board is the business savvy they bring to the club.
Previous boards, pre Bunnet I hasten to add, treated the club as personal fiefdoms and had a wilfull approach to the balance sheet. The club being fifteen minutes away from bankrupcy bears this out.
It is commom sense to monitor wages as these, for most companies, are the greatest outlay.
So I doff my cap and salute this board for bring a modicum of reality to the venture that is Celtic Football Club.
er....Rangers 0 Villareal 23
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Paul,
on the last thread you said 'Income in the second half will be up on last season by several million according to my calculations.' Is this just down to saving on wages or is there other income not metioned.Also due you have a rough idea of what the debt will look like at the end of this period.
thanks
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Any ideas what the budget for the summer will be and what sort of wage ceiling we will have??
Mavuba of Bordeaux?!?!
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Stevie Hammell on a pre contract?
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Hi all
Interesting figures and my first impression is that they could have been much worse, what with the early elimination from Europe.
Im sure everyone agrees that a balance has to be struck between income and spending, and IMO this got out of control for a while but it did bring Seville.
I look to the scouting network now in place to supplement a productive youth policy in providing a quality team year on year, their should be no need for feast or famine years.
Good luck to Villarreal home and away.
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After 4-5 years of relative success in Europe (Champions League, UEFA Cup Final/quarter final) the club must have a very good idea of how much these are worth in terms of revenue.
Therefore I'd be in favour a a basic wage for playing in the SPL with bonuses based on European revenue.
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Benfica stun Liverpool read it here
http://portuguesesoccernewslinks.red.tc
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riskorrie
Careful mate,someone might take offence at your inference that buying a Celtic top means that they aren't fair-minded!!! :D
For my own part,I don't like this idea that every Celtic supporter should be a philanthropist.I buy the merchandise to support the club and although it may not reflect well on me personally,I couldn't care less where it was made.
Aw Naw
I understand that there may be concerns of our most promising players leaving,but I really don't think that they wil be sold for the sake of it.
The only time I would expect someone to be sold in the future is a)if debts are unmanageable(hope not) b) if the manager believes he has identified a better player for less than the cost of selling the present incumbent or c) where a player has decided that he wants to have a fresh challenge somewhere else.
Remember,if we are fortunate enough to have a fantastic set of youth players coming through,you have to create space for the new guys coming through the system by selling on existing players.
BankieBhoy
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Good Point Paul,
We've had to tighten our belt, yet presumably DD still sees us aiming at the pinnacle of world football – I’m not sceptical as the guys on the board are very capable people but it’s a massive challenge!
There was an interview on TODAY this morning with The President (I Think) of Barcelona, he was asked how he managed to pay and retain the World best player(s).
He said we can compete with the wages, but that’s not what it’s about for these players – money is secondary. There are six teams in the world that can compete for these players two from England, two from Italy and two from Spain.
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if we can attract and hold on to the players of the calibre of Magic, Naka and big Artur without bustin the bank then i say well done to all involved, agree with a previous post that buying from these shores is not cheap and that surely there are better players available in the likes of Poland etc. Renegotiating these contracts will also be important it should be done without fuss and rubbish press rumours that we have become used to. If this can be done then there is absolutely no reason as to why we cant leave the other mob in our wake for many years to come.
Remember, Their Dreams, OUR Reality! :)
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Paul & all the Financial bhoys - thank you for conveying the figures at a level we can all understand. I am hopeless at the adding & subtraction business, maybe it's down to all those years of going out to the Ice Cream Van with a Fiver & coming back in with a bottle of Limeade & no change - i dunno?
Anyways slowly but surely the Celtic fans are now getting better information from the likes of CQN & the club itself. The days of forming kneejerk opinions based on Tabloid fiction are hopefully coming to an end.
Hail Hail to P67, Kojo & all the other Jedi Knights
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Shamrock diary , from previous thread, thanx for the reply. As I said, many of us are all singing from the same hymn sheet. Destroy the redtops, ignore the pundits and foster the love for all things CELTIC .
I wonder if it's personal ???????? For those of us with the spelling ability of a three year old, and th typing ability of your avarage horse, why does Paul always !! post a new article straight after I have spent half an hour thrashing out my mince ???????????????
Oh,!!!! Riiight..... the penny's just dropped......do'h.
Shamrock, Re. Chickory Tip, (last thread). No they were'nt Scottish, but the one interesting thing about their hit was, a young guy with one of these newfangled synthesiser thingys helped them write it............Georgio Moroder. He didn't do too badly after that, did he?
pablophanque
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Hi all Estadio here,
Unfortunately I don’t have as much time as I would like to post on here.
To many of you the silver lining in this, my own personal cloud, is that you are spared the inner workings or malfunctioning of what laughingly passes for a brain.
Any way, I am just about to wander over the East-end and see if I can pass a few hours with any wandering Submariners!
Just before I go, I thought I would leave MY snap shot of where we are as a club (football wise that is – I leave the financial things to those who with sharply attuned minds for figures) with a particular focus on any relative improvement or degradation in terms of quality over the past year or so!
Opinions are NOT as a certain Mr Souness once said
‘like a***holes – everyone’s got one’
…they are much more complex in that we not only change them (opinions that is) with a fairly regular frequency, but we also tend to discuss and consider the relative merits of various alternatives with friends, over a meal, over a drink, or even vociferously while standing and shouting at the top of our voices in a football stadium.
Yes opinions are in fact nothing like a***holes, although I am not sure the same can be said for Mr Souness (just joking) or is that only my opinion.
So rather than give you just my opinion, I thought I might try something revolutionary (for me anyway) and try a slightly more solid comparison!
So before I disappear up my own proverbial opinion, on Monday I looked in various scraps of info that I sadly keep, and considered what had occurred exactly one year ago…to the painful day!
Celtic 0 Rangers 2
….Rangers moved three points clear;
….Rangers first victory at Celtic Park since March 2000;
….It was not Rab Douglas’s finest day!
….Craig Bellamy debut;
The reports are fairly dire (to both teams) but it’s the selections that really interest me
Teams
Celtic: Douglas, McNamara (McGeady 77), Balde, Varga, Laursen, Petrov, Lennon, Sutton, Thompson, Bellamy, Hartson.
Subs Not Used: Marshall, Henchoz, Juninho Paulista, Lambert, Maloney, Wallace.
Rangers: Waterreus, Hutton, Kyrgiakos, Andrews, Ball (Alex Rae 73), Buffel, Ferguson, Ricksen, Vignal, Prso, Novo.
Subs Not Used: McGregor, Namouchi, Burke, Malcolm, Thompson, Lovenkrands.
Now reflect upon the teams that played out the match at Ibrox almost one year later!
Rangers: Waterreus, Hutton, Andrews, Kyrgiakos (Rodriguez 66), Smith, Burke, Malcolm, Ferguson, Buffel (Kris Boyd 72), Novo (Lovenkrands 61), Prso.
Subs Not Used: Klos, Hemdani, Murray, Namouchi.
Celtic: Boruc, Telfer, Balde, McManus, Wilson, Petrov, Keane, Lennon, Maloney (Pearson 89), Zurawski, Hartson (Dublin 74).
Subs Not Used: Marshall, Thompson, Nakamura, Wallace, McGlinchey.
Is the rangers team really that much worse in terms of personnel than last year? With the exception of Malcolm for Ricksen I would suggest that all the changes are either neutral or positive for Rangers!
Then look at our own team team:
Artur replaces Rab – Positive
Paul replaces Jackie – Negative
Bobo – Playing better than last year- Positive
Mick replaces Stan V – Neutral to Positive
Mark replaces Ulrik – Positive
Stan P - Neutral
Neil Neutral
Roy replaces Chris Positive
Shaun Replaces Alan Positive
Maciej replaces Craig Positive
John Neutral
I haven’t even dealt with Naka or Aiden or the quality of the players either injured or waiting in the wings for their opportunity!
I know that snap shots are exactly that, just one point in time that can be influenced by a whole range of factors!
But if you look at the teams above and the wider opposition, I believe that many people (in some so called journalistic cases, deliberately) are blinding ourselves to the fact we are part of a generally improving standard in Scottish Football.
I don’t know too many people who would not agree that Hearts are much better than last year, Hibs are much more effective, and Motherwell, Kilmarnock, and Inverness similarly have raised their game.
Equally I believe that Celtic have also improved in capability, albeit with less consistency than last year. But look at the changes and compare with how long it took Martin to get to a European level playing field.
I also believe that across the city, the focus has been very much for the last 5 or 6 years on ensuring that they were able to counteract a Celtic Team that they viewed through a window to the past. i.e. Celtic have big men, let’s get big men etc!
I believe that from Martin’s time onwards, the evidence suggests that we (and latterly some others) have set our own agenda and are trying to realise a vision of how football should be played, how we acquire players to do so, and realistically know that continuous improvement comes with practice, adherence to the principle set, and consistency of selection.
I know and agree with the many concerns over the unknowns that await us on foreign fields. But we can only compare ourselves with those we play against and we can only have opinions (there’s that word again) about how we might fare against others on the wider European Stage!
I believe that the evidence suggests that there has been a raising of standards from the teams mentioned; I believe that potential capability in our team and our management should be recognised and acknowledged; and I believe that through fairly myopic and blinkered management across the city, our rivals have stagnated and been sadly (hmmmm) left behind?
They will recover, but we must take this opportunity to create an ever-widening gap while they continue at level that sees them battling with Hearts and Hibs and strain to match whatever strategy and structure and personnel we had in place the previous year.
That never-ending evolution of Celtic is what I mean by continuous improvement, it is fuelled by the ability to adapt and strengthen!
This ‘survival of the fittest’ is a challenge that I believe GS has both undertaken willingly and may actually have articulated himself in such a way as to convince the people of influence that ‘he is the man for the job’!
In my heart I also hope and have faith that the fittest we will survive against come from a panoramic view of the Barcelonas, Bayerns, Milans and Lyons of the world and not from the one-eyed, two dimensional West-of Scotland rivalry!
Martin gave us the taste for magical European nights which we as fans celebrated and adopted as our birthright and expectation!
We played football the way we did, because the team and fans operated as a single intimidating force which opened with a crescendo of the anthemic ‘you’ll never walk alone’ and continued with wave after wave of green and white hooped assaults, surfing forward on the waves of 60,000 ‘Hail Hails, Wullie Maleys, Fields, and CELTIC CELTICs’!
Who could stop us? Who would dare stop us?
Sometimes we lost a goal! Remember our reaction!
It’s time to recapture that!
Remember Brian Quinn recalling how our fans, our club, our singing, our welcome and our colours caused the eyes of so many visiting dignitary to turn glassy-eyed and widen in total disbelief and utter amazement.
But most of all I believe that we did it because we all, every single one of us believed that we could and wanted it more than anyone else could even approach dreaming.
I still believe that the faith and the dream survive, I am sure that Gordon is driven by that self-same faith and dream; I know that many on here also nurture that faith and dream.
Let’s make sure everyone else does and then…..!
Let’s keep the faith and mean it!
Hail Hail
Estadio
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NUMERO UNO
2nd half of this year we are comparing with a very poor 2nd half last with no Euro income, one less SPL game, and very limited revenue from merchandise pre Nike.
League Cup and Scottish Cup may just cancel each other out.
Chairbhoy
Interesting from Laporte.....Still 2 from Italy ? despite the shocking state of their game financially.
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Should we get behind Rangers tonight ?
Ajax are very close (0.5 behind) to Celtic in terms of co efficient.
Despite being 4th in their league they will probably come through the dutch play off system and claim the 3rd place in CL next year.
Only kidding....
With PSV and AZ losing in past week and should Ajax lose at home tonight then there is a good chance that Ajax co efficient will rise by a max of 1 point or so this season.
If Rangers win tonight it would give us 0.5 point and be likely to keep us ahead of Ajax and in a good place for Pot 2 next season..
What do you think ???
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A great wee piece again Paul....My thoughts focused on that line as well when I was skim reading the report last night...
But I came to a different conclusion;
I'm hoping it is BQ sending a signal effect to players and agents alike...
Next Season we will hopefully be straight into the champs league
This will result in:
Revenue:
£9m increase to turnover (what we have lost in the six months relating to Champs league)
I expect Nike contract to decrease in revenue so- say £1.5m <
Naka effect may reduce multimedia £0.5m
So net effect £7M>
Costs:
Bonuses will be paid on champs league performance - say £3m>
additional costs relating to champs league - say £2m>
So net effect £5m
Now by my calculations that gives us £2m in wages to play with before we sell any players in the summer for a world cup "special price"....and before Thompson, Varga, Agathe, Camara & Telfer effect have been removed from the wage bill....
I hear Ronaldo feels unloved at Los Galacticos what do you think?
Alternatively we could be less imaginative and use the surplus to be PRUDENT and reduce the debt and buy players from the spl and English championship....Hmmmm...
A wee aside for you;
On the operating costs- not sure why they were only reduced by £1.3m when turnover was down by £9m....New Nike contract a wee bit cost intensive possibly (all those new shops)........hopefully these will be under control for the next period.
Loved the mediocrity always at its best comment...lets hope its not a self-fulfilling prophecy for next season...
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burnley 78
Toa answer your second question first,no.
Re. the Italian teams,with clubs able to negotiate individually for TV rights,I don't think Milan and especially Juventus do particularly badly.
It does raise the question of whether it would be worth pursuing the issue of individual TV rights as a club through the courts,as surely there is an anomaly there inallowing some clubs in the EU to negotiate individually while others are forced to accept collective bargaining?
BankieBhoy
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Great post again Estasio.
Interestingly perhaps that the reason for the noise after we conceeded a goal or the noise pre-match was that as a support we were absolutely captivated by MO'N.
We had the utmost faith in him and others, like Henrik, to take the team by the hand and magic a goal out of something for us.
We have witnessed some fine European performances at CP over the last few years from our Champions League debut against Porto (will never forget the first time hearing the music over the PA and the flag waving on the centre circle), to the slaying of Juventus and my own favourite doing of Lyon.
We have to aspire to that again and give the management and players the same vocal backing as we did previously.
Liked Brian Quinn's comment about the downsides this year - "only the mediocre are always at their best."
Come on the hoops.
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St Gris 12.37pm
I agree with your comment that MoN wouldn't have done any better than GS had the timeline been reversed.
I also think GS wouldn't have done any better than MoN had the timeline been reversed.
Lets be thankful it's been the right men at the right time.
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The Godfather,
Just a quick one as I do have to go and get my money on a tip for the Newcastle job (sorry can't reveal since it is my sole means of making money at the moment, but it is a pretty unexpected appointment).
Re the noise etc.
I am sure you remember Henrik's return (from the broken jaw).
It was against the mighty reds of Liverpool!
BBJ nearly scored in just about a minute, and then after one more foray, Henrik 'shinned' the ball over the line from a Thommo cut-back.
It was a 'shinning' in my view that had class marked all over it!
Anyway, I will maintain to the day I am screwed down into an oak coffin or more likely am dropped into a pauper's grave in an old binbag, that we, the support, actually scored that goal!
Hail Hail
Estadio
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i'm as caught up in the current feel good factor as the next geezer.
so don't shout me down.
'cos i'm only askin' . . .
WHAT IF . . . wage levels had remained the same as last year, but we had actually qualified for the Champions League (or at least the UEFA Cup) . . .
would we be worse off?
or did we cut off our noses to spite our faces,
(but thanks to plastic surgery (share issue / nike deal) we end up just as beautiful as before?
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Is their not the inevitability of problems a few years down the line, regarding the direction it looks like we are certain to be taking..
In that more players will be signed on Bosmans, freebies, but who then come on higher wages because of that fact, then when it comes to player renegotiations, players' agents will be looking for quite possible significant increases, and cites the examples of the Bosmans as their proof their client should be on £xxxxx
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PadyBhoy, many thanks for your kind words. If you strip out the TV income and, importantly, sponsorship associated with the elite clubs TV exposure, Celtic’s income from other sources puts them ahead of the like of Juve and Milan.
CELTICFC NUMERO UNO, income will rise by several million from the position last year, not just cost savings.
I have not had a chance to do a budget forecast yet, maybe next week before I have an idea on y/e debt.
Lennys PR Man, should be plenty of budget (more than I would provide for the manager to spend) if we reach the CL.
Cheers VargasShampoo, hope you are getting some sleep at night.
Estadio, I also looked back on this week - last year. Excellent point.
Burnley78, aye right. Villarreal will do for me.
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Rumoid,
I am sure you have the numbers wrong, The Daily Record is reporting that Rangers made £14.5M from the CL and this will rise to £20.5M should they beat VillaReal................or is it talk up Rangers on Champions League day again?
Burnley, who wants to be in pot 2 anyway, get right into them VillaReal. I am going to the BlackBull in Killearn to watch the game (Killearn was the home of Pastor Jack Glass) so I will be the sole VillaReal fan! wish me luck...............
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Evil Rhum...
I would think that the likes of Valencia pay their best players (Baraja & Aimar) relatively good wages; but playing at the top of la liga with a big club, compensates for any financial downfalls.
Which explains the reason why mediocre players in Celtic's past have been on huge amounts of money.
To compensate for the SPL!
Thank God they have learned their lesson and discovered that you can get good players on lower wages if you care to look outside the EPL.
With this change in strategy, maybe in the not to distant future we will be debt free, regularly winning the league and qualifying for the latter stages of Europe.
Sean
p.s Messi is good but not as good as Rooney.
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I say this shows just how good a job the wee man is doing in Paradise. He inherited some pedestrians and has weeded most of them out for guys that want to play for the cause, not the cash.
Great business Ghord.
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Cheers Paul,Burnley78.
Bhoydell.Im sure i heard that Liverpool mabe £17 million last year by winning the CL.Not sure if thats correct but id be willing to bet my mortgage on the daily record figures being way off.
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Estadio,
Once you have put your money on for the next toon manger you could tell us:-)
Pat
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Is Le Guen going to Rangers or what?? He is quality and hearing him talk about the manky mob job is worrying. Could a lot depend on how things go with the Villareal game?
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Phob,
am I reading that wrong or did LFC make 30m from the CL competition alone ?
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Celtic Numero Uno,
You are absolutely 100% correct - The record is wrong. by about £3M
Who got what
Hail Hail
Phob
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Awe_naw
The figures are in Euros
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Cheers phob
I suppose it goes without saying that they would be wrong
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Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo
30M Euro's.
Phob
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I think that we all have to be realistic as to our expectations (in particular to the CL) for the next couple of years. I would say the current team will struggle to compete until they mature or more quality is added. Maybe we have to look to east europe for "good value" players but I still think we will struggle beyond the group stages. Just being realistic but hope I am wrong.
P.S. - Can anyone confirm that uefa/fifa have ruled that teams must have so many native players in their squad/team ?. I seem to think it would be a rule by 2007 ?.
Maybe right, maybe wrong !
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Phob - thats an interesting bit of paper. Liked the marketing money Celtic got compared to Shaktar / Kiev - even Ajax. Shows what appeal we have?
Also going back a bit to the £6.55m spend in the accounts - wonder if the Plc watched the CQN poll of who would spend what last summer (?) - the majority went for £7m a season over 3 seasons rather than one £21 blow out.
TB
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It would seem Didier Agathe's wage demands are too rich even for the EPL.
It's sad to see such a once fine player fail to a get a decent club.
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These CL figures do not include gate receipts ?
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1:20 BankieBhoy
....not trying to take a right/wrong/I can pee higher view on the issue of buying official merchandise that may/may not be made in sweatshops (btw. where does the label say the Nike tops are made?).
I don't know where Nike stand nowadays on this sweatshop issue (can anybody help?), but I do know that it can be a dilemma whenever (personally speaking) ethics and fitba conflict.
The best parallel I can think of being McSpewen’s lager - How many of us never touched the stuff because of their shirt sponsorship deal? Back then it was so easy for my fitba beliefs to cross over into the world of commerce. This one I’m not so sure about.
What price the integrity of beliefs, I s’pose?
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Estadio,
I hope Newcastle or R. Madrid sign up Le Guen. How funny would that be.
I gotta funny feelin you know otherwise though.
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Paul67 ............... a few months ago your where full of doom and glom for our 6 months accounts ............see what a few months does for you ..............:-)
remember also the winners of the SPL this year will get even more money (500K more i think) from the deal signed by the SPL and a Japanese TV company ........the naka factor.
how many big earners have left on our books ......thomo, BBJ, Varga? anymore?
also another way for us to increase our income is .......make sure the Celtic shops have the good in stock for the run up to Xmas and the likes ...........no Celtic shop or on-line shop had a large bhoys black away top in .............. thanks again Stevie21 for getting me it in JJB's................:-)
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PS .........good luck villarreal
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test
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TravelBhoy,
The 'Marketing Pool' is a share of the TV revenue that is split by country.
As Rangers failed to qualify Celtic got the full amount. If Rangers had qualified Celtic would have received something like 3/5ths (top qualifier) and the other lot 2/5ths.
It does show what our TV market is worth 6.3M euro compared to England 56.8M euro divided between 4 clubs.
You can see why DD, PL and BQ want us to be in the EPL ... the money would flood in from all directions.
That the club is in the position it is domestically, within Europe and Financially is a credit to all us Fans for suppling the money, the board for managing this money and the manager for spending it wisely.
Hail Hail
Phob
ps. Was impressed on Sunday at the chants of 'Hail Hail' when we conceeded the goal. The team do better with us behind them rather than on top of them.
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Rioskorrie
I think if you look at most, if not all, major brands and companies you'll find bad press and negative factors about their operations.
Nike do not own an factories (as far as I know) they don't make one item of clothing or footwear themselves. They simply put the contract to manufacture their clothes out to tender and go for the deal that best suits their needs.
It might not be saintly but it's how companies work, if you don't have a competitive advantage then you won't last in the marketplace.
I know it's harsh but that's the way things work in a capitalist environment.
All major brands (Coca-cola, Nestle, McDonalds etc.) are regarded as evil by many.
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Burnley78
Not wanting to be seen as narrow minded or anti Scottish, I've tried manfully to support Rangers whenever they are in Europe and urged all my mates to do the same, citing co-efficiency or simply tiring them out for the domestic games as a good enough reason. However whenever the actual game comes around, the media, the build up, the interviews, the ex Gers studio analyst, the songs, the fans faces etc, I find it simply impossible to do anything other than cheer on the opposition - whoever it may be. Its just too tough - c'mon the Villa!
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travelbhoy, I think the 'market' column is the split of the TV money based on each market's population. We did well as we were the only represntatives that year so kept the lot. I could be wrong though, anyone confirm?
Hail! Hail!
cta!
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Bhoydell
I always thought when Celtic reached the group stages (and when Rangers didn't) the Record claimed the money to be about £8m. Getting into the next round will maybe generate an added £1-2m but you have to take into consideration that the bonuses for each result and for getting through are potentionally huge! I'm talking millions... does anyone know an approxomate figure of the bonuses paid out in Celtic's Uefa cup final run?
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It's based on the value of the TV contracts.
Based on population the Ukrainians would get more than the peanuts they receive.
I presume the TV money is split between Scotland & England on a population basis. I don't think we get anything based on our support in England & Ireland.
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Estadio...
But if you look at the teams above and the wider opposition, I believe that many people (in some so called journalistic cases, deliberately) are blinding ourselves to the fact we are part of a generally improving standard in Scottish Football.
Estadio, whilst your sentiments are laudible, your assertion that the league this year is of a higher standard simply doesn't hold up to scrutiny. The names of the teams in any one position as statistically irrelevant, the only way togauge the strength of the league is to examine the percentile figures for each position in the league regardless of the team in that position.
Season 2004/2005
Position Vs %age wins required to gain that position.
1st - 77%
2nd - 78.9%
3rd - 62%
4th - 51.85%
5th - 48.14%
6th - 37.03%
Season 2005/2006
1st - 77%
2nd - 59.25%
3rd - 48.14%
4th - 51.85%
5th - 44.11%
6th - 33.3%
As you can see from the tables, the percentage of wins required to get in any position this year has decreased - making it easier to position higher on the SPL table in 2005/2006. This points to a drop in the overall standard rather than an increase. A quick viewing of the relative teams performances in Europe also points to a drop, only one team has posted a year on year improvement in European attainment vs three who performed less well. There may be a slight improvement in the very lowest lowest teams in the league, but the table points to a more general levelling out/dropping of standards.
I don’t know too many people who would not agree that Hearts are much better than last year, Hibs are much more effective, and Motherwell, Kilmarnock, and Inverness similarly have raised their game.
...whilst the other teams have suffered a similar drop in standard. Effectively your contention is that the league is beter because the names of the teams are good! It's like seeing two identical garments, one with a Nike badge and one not. When asking what one is better the respondant says "the Nike one" when asked why it's better the repsondant simply replies "Because it's Nike!" It's illogical to base an assumtion on a name. Hibs may be better, but Aberdeen are worse, Hearts might be better, but Rangers are worse. Can you see what I'm getting at?
Also, your player positives/negatives are wholly subjective. We could have a long debate on the merits/demerits of certain players based on your judgement - most of which I'd agree with, but then the changes have came at the expense of the team shape/discipline. I'll refrain from flogging that (very dead) horse for the moment though. :-)
Sometimes we lost a goal! Remember our reaction!
It’s time to recapture that!
A sentiment I wholeheartedly agree with! :-) Although I live in hope more than expectation.
I'm not trying to rain on your parade, or to cast a negative light on your very positive, excellent post, but I firmly believe that we have to be balanced and objective in our judgements of Celtic, for the good of Celtic. We pour over financials to the Nth degree but we're lazy and subjective when it comes to scrutinizing the team performance. We demand the best of our business men but put on the dunce hats when watching the game, and the team, we're supposed to love.
/p
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I stated some time ago, on another message board, that our direct European competitors were the likes of Anderlecht, PSV, Lyon, Panathanaikos, Fernerbache, etc.
Needless to say, I was slated. Celtic are comparable with the likes of Liverpool, Bayern Munich - one critic even said Manchester United and Barcelona - i was told.
Only the minority of teams in Europe pay widespread salaries in excess of £25,000 p/w. This article reinforces my belief that I was right all along. Thank you, Paul.
Yes, we should aspire to be the best we can but the road of financial mismanagement only leads to ruin. See Leeds United and the Huns, or Borussia Dortmund for the best example.
Lyon and PSV are showing the way forward for clubs our size (financially). Indeed, such is the revenue we can generate through our fan base there is no reason why we cannot surpass their efforts.
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I've said this before but allocating money based on the size of the country is just another example of UEFA pandering to the Big Five clubs.It makes it all the more remarkable that when they get threatened with court action or breakaway leagues by these guys they come out with the nonsense about being there to protect the smaller teams.
How about a simple split of revenues of one thirty secondth(?),one sixteenth,etc... for progression through the tournament,enabling the teams from the smaller countries a chance to improve competition? The Big Five already have the benefit of their domestic TV revenues anyway.
UEFA could do this but are afraid of the threat of the breakaway league that caused the CL to be introduced in the first place.
BankieBhoy
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p8ddy...
We demand the best of our business men but put on the dunce hats when watching the game, and the team, we're supposed to love.
I know...p8ddy bolds himself shocker! :-)
Estadio - just in case there is any misunderstanding - I am in no way trying to suggest that you are the person wearing the dunce hat. I'm trying to make a general comment that we all let out standards slip and get carried away with the euphoria whilst watching games. Sorry, on review it makes it look like I'm making a derogatory comment toward yourself when nothing could be further from the truth.
Keep up the good work! You even make me, the grand lord of darkness, look a little more tolerantly on things. ;-)
/p
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malone19
Agree with you that it shouldn't really matter.
Don't get me wrong here - I'm not advocating a ban on Nike, I just want somebody's feedback on how "ethically clean" Nike are these days and I s’pose, in a more general sense, how much of a sponsorship evil will/should any club and it's fans endure before morality becomes an issue.
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P8ddy
Those figures surely mean the league has gotten more competitive! The points must be spread more evenly across the whole league - everyone else is more on par than last year with each other while we have pulled away.
Do you honestly think Hearts this year are worse than last?
Hibs, ICT, Kilmarnock - have these teams improved or or are they playing lesser quality football than last year?
Teams levelling out mean the league as a whole is more competitive. This may be a contributing factor for Ranger's doing worse this year although I would suggest it's probably because they're guff! But they are 1 of only maybe 3 (including Dunfermline and Livingston) who have dropped in quality. As a post earlier shows it's not really personell that's caused this with Rangers. Maybe poor management? Form? Dressing-room problems? etc.
Quality cannot be quantified by numbers, mechanics or statistics. Certainly not over the short-term. Looking at the football on show by some of the smaller clubs in the mid-to-upper table IMO the quality of the league in general is on par or better than any point in the last ten years.
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