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Paul
One of the questions from the other thread was asking if JJB offered the same option, if not exactly the same deal to Celtic?
Do you know if such a question or scenario was ever brought before the board even for consideration.
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I'm no expert on retail science, but this hardly seems like a ground-breaking deal. More like plugging a gap in the balance sheet.
Do we all think that this is "the moonbeam"? Or are there others to come? If this is it, it hardly seems worth getting worked up about...
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Nice one
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Nice one
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I am no retail expert as you will see from my question.
But why do we not earn any extra income from sales at outlets like JJB?
Is the brand not licensed so that even a small fee must be paid for every Celtic top sold.
It seems strange that such a powerful brand in the leisure market should get no return when other people sell it as a product.
Or do we get extra revenue from Nike and so we get indirect benefit later in the year once we have surpassed certain base targets?
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Shamrock diary:
‘A source close to the club’ told me Celtic were offered the a similar deal from JJB Sports, though I believe it was worth more money, reflecting the higher retails sales at Celtic.
The reaction from Celtic went along the lines of ‘you must be kidding’.
We are paid £5m per annum by Nike to allow them to sell to other retail outlets. No other money comes to Celtic when an other retailer sells Celtic merchandise.
For Celtic to earn additional income from your purchase it must be made through a club outlet.
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I'm am maths teacher by trade Paul but the arithmetic here seems to make no sense. Rankers are giving up £7 million profit per year in order to gain a downpayment of £18 million followed by £3 million per year. Presumably JJB gaining £4 million per year?
I know that they may get more than £3 million subject to sales but this seems to be more a case of selling the family silver rather than a moonbeam.
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I dont think they will get anywhere near £7m per year. This stinks of shorterm thinking until magico murray pulls the wool over the orcs eyes again. Sunnyside reporting by the Laptop Loyal with upwards of £80m being quoted by LL No1. Andy McInnes. Oh my ribs....
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Everyone will agree that, all other things being equal, all Celtic purchases should be made from official outlets. However, shops like Sports Soccer are selling their tops at £15-£20 cheaper than Celtic are.
I understand the concept of volume sales and making a little profit on each item, but selling lots of them - presumably Celtic are making money by selling fewer but at a greatly increased margin...
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My sides are aching, Ive been chuckling away to myself all day since "THE BIG INVESTMENT" was announced, what investment? They have indeed sold the family silver:-) LOL!
Altogether now!
OH THE R****** ARE SKINT!!
Roll on revaluation of Snake Mountain!
OH THE R****** ARE SKINT!!
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The only way to attract Le Guen is to promise him circa £20m of a transfer pot.
drastic short term thinking here, that will utterly destroy them.
I envisage Murray selling up in the not too distant future.
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I emailed JJB sports today to let them know that Celtic fans will bhoycott them this is their reply
Thank you for your e-mail the contents of which have been noted.
In response I would like to point out that JJB Sports are the largest
retailer of Glasgow Celtic shirts and as such have provided the Club with a
large amount of royalties and will continue to do so.
If at any stage Glasgow Celtic approaches JJB Sports with a business
proposal we will certainly consider it.
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Paul
Does the forces not have to pay Joe Lewis a significant payment out of the CL cash as part of the deal when Murray purchased back the shares (or is this Murray's personal liability?)
In the meantime, shop at JJB and help Rangers!!! Let the bhoycott commence!!!
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Now I'm really confused - royalties from JJB? what is this about.
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It's simple really.
JJB will profit over the ten years (unless a bhoycott has drastic effect!) and TFOD will get a quick cash injection.
The long term losses for Murray would be offset by success in the short term. Does anyone really believe he will still be there in ten years time?
We welcome their chase!
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According to the Rangers website - this is an innovative deal...
innovate -
to introduce changes and new ideas:
innovative -
using new methods or ideas
innovation -
(the use of) a new idea or method:
Chief executive [jjb] Tom Knight said, “We have similar agreements in place with Everton and Wigan Athletic and such agreements provide exciting opportunities for us and underline our position as the UK's leading sports retailer.”
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Slimlinebbj, I have some sympathy with JJB, but that should not deflect us from the focus of driving home our advantage.
They are wrong to say they provide Celtic with royalties, Celtic receive no royalties form sales made through JJB Sports whatsoever.
Bhoyobhoy, you are correct, I believe ENIC (Lewis company) receives a kick-back from their CL participation.
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This deal seems sensible to me for Murray. It is widely accepted that, despite his rhetoric, Murray will not hold onto Ranger's long term. Therefore fixing a long term problem with a short term fix is exactly what Murray wants to do. It is whoever comes next that will have this one to clean up. We should also not kid ourselves that whoever takes over will make the same mistakes as McLeish in the transfer market and buy dud’s. I hope WGS has the right quality lined up for us for his pre 9th June spending spree, I fear we will need it.
This move does bring the issue around cost of Celtic shirts to the fore. It has never been more important to buy direct from Celtic ( always buy direct, cut out the middleman, especially computers………………….), but Celtic need to get real with the costs, nobody will pay £20 more than they have to for a top, no matter how loyal they are.
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reply from JJB after e-mail saying I would not be using them in future.
Dear Mr ******
Thank you for your e-mail the contents of which have been noted.
In response I would like to point out that JJB Sports are the largest retailer of Glasgow Celtic shirts and as such have provided the Club with a large amount of royalties and will continue to do so.
If at any stage Glasgow Celtic approaches JJB Sports with a business proposal we will certainly consider it.
Yours sincerely
Mark Moffet
Customer Services Manager
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…a cheery thought for lunchtime (well it’s that time here anyways)
When a certain pop idol star and (alleged) “friend” of a Herald hack was asked in a recent interview, "What was your favourite musical instrument when you were at school"?
She replied, “The dinner bell”!!
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slimlinebbj........ put up jjb email addy
paul67 .......do you think this is a good deal?
why no outcry about all them poor folk who's jobs are on the line now
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Paul, i dont suppose you know if HBOS would have to approve this..I imagine they would if it affects rangers longer term viability.. and why on earth would they.... as they are already £xxxxxxxxxxxxxx in debt from my math (from your figures) they will get just under 50 mill from this (18 + (10*3)), or should that be 9 times 3,, as opposed to the 70 mill they may have earned (10+7) lossing them ove 20 mill. So add that to the fact they are not guaranteed cl football for the next few years and this stadium re-evaluation legislation coming in... could this be their final attempt to aviod sinking into the deep blue sea (pardon the pun :o))
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You must also take into account huge bonus payments to players for their expoits in the CL.
I'm not sure if this has been answered or not:
First of all, will all Rangers' shops/superstores be shut down or will JJB take them over? (Also, do Ranger's own these and if so are they part of the deal or can they be sold on to another buyer?)
Will Rangers be allowed to open new premises/sell merchandise at all? I.e. Use the money to open new stores?
I know it's a liscense agreement but does that mean that JJB have a monopoly on Rangers goods?
After 10 years (when Rangers are dishing out sectarian bile to their biggest rivals - Albion Rovers) what happens?
I'm completely lost at to what this deal actually entails.
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what happens after the 10th year.
how much do the celtic shops earn yearly.
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Belfast Bhoy
They could always just evaluate the "Rangers" brand @ £100 billion to help with the balance sheet!:-P
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Richie,
I agree with you- I think Davros has an exit strategy on his mind. A wee while ago I read an interview with him in which he bemoaned Scotland and hinted at living abroad. His sale of his original business and his re-focusing of his ramshackle empire on property speculation rather than manufacturing also points to a man looking to take a back seat.
And lets face it, a few years ago he was able to con people like ENIC and NTL out of serious cash. Now, is this the best he can do? It doesn't even qualify as an "investment"- its simply a protracted sale of a revenue stream. He's gone from attempting a genuine (and hilarious) tilt at the European Cup, funded with cash from blue-chip guys like Lewis and NTL, to hawking his wares around provincial track-suit and trainer retailers to plug holes in his leaky balance sheets.
And not only that, but his "innovative" model is based on an idea pioneered by, ahem, Wigan Athletic! Oh, the ignominy.
Davros also seemed genuinely spooked by the revolting Orcs outside Mordor last month. Maybe he realises that even his elite brigade of press scribblers can no longer fool even the dimmer subjects of Her Maj?
A life of fist-shaking bluster awaits in New Zealand I feel...
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I used onlineenquiries@jjbsports.com
Got this from contact me on their website.
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looks like they have a standard reply stevie got same as me
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Posted much of this last thread but IMO – the MINT has re-written the law of diminution returns. In order to ride out short term cash flow problem, he has jeopardised TFOD’s long term future.
SHORT TERM
A good deal, this year the accounts will look good, an extra 18M T/O, debt reduction, better bottom line, this deal and the CL run should get them into the World’s top twenty clubs again.
MEDIUM TERM
Rangers will be receiving about 50% of their projected merchandising profit, affecting their ability to improve the squad and facilities.
While teams like Celtic are looking at different markets such as Japan or Poland, Rangers have little incentive to expand and maximise their Market base
LONG TERM
From rule of thumb the value of money doubles every decade, if as you say Rangers merchanding present day T/O 21M @ 33% return, would equate to 14M profit in 2016/17. Rangers are guaranteed 3M, a small fraction of it’s worth and will severally inhibit their ability to procure and retain the calibre of player necessary to remain in the top half of the SPL.
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I would imagine JJB have an exclusive deal, Rangers are hardly going to be able to open up shops next door.
I think Rangers would lease their existing high street shops.
I wonder if JJB are in charge of product design will be see any more 'tangerine' strips ?
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Paul
Have to agree we drive home the advantage by buying through Celtic.
I told JJB sports I would Bhoycott them in the future but to date I have always bought Celtic merchandise through CP superstore or online.
It may be full price but at least its all going to Celtic.
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jsm69 posted the JJB press statement Under the terms of the licence, JJB will design, develop, source and retail all Rangers merchandise sounds like the whole KIT and caboodle
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If profits are £7m a year and JJB are paying Rangers the equivalent of £5m a year (£3m plus £1.8M over ten years plus approx lost interest on the £18M up front.) then that suggests that profit from sale of Celtic products has to drop by £2m before JJB starts to lose money.
Is it realistic to expect a Celtic boycott to have that effect?
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As I said at the end of the last thread I don't see why we should boycott JJB for non-Celtc related merchandise.
After they pay Rangers money up front we don't want JJB going bust and freeing Rangers to do another deal or bring thing back in-house. Buying a pair of trainers from JJB won't result in Rangers getting a penny extra.
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Who will now be mnufacturing Rangers strips?
Will Rangers produce soley be sold out of JJB stores (will sports soccer etc. be allowed to sell their products)?
Do Rangers not have a superstore on their grounds that would be sellable or re-furbishable (is that even a word?!?)?
Just how many jobs will be lost through shutting down their production plants and high-street stores?
After the ten years do Rangers get handed back production and selling rights etc. will this not leave them having to start from scratch from a structure perpective?
Should clubs not be looking to have a steady rise in merchandising? £3m this year even if you do not take into account inflation and the likes should be more the next year and more the next just on the basis of growing a successful (obviously that isn't Rangers) business. Heeheehee!
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Afternoon Gents
Well Mr Murray's moonbeam has landed it appears with his JJB announcement.
Was a bit concerned when I read the £48m headline figure (at least for a couple of minutes anyway)...As always the devil is in the devil's detail
The deal would mean;
£48m over 10 years (roughly a present value of £40M at today's rates)
Mr M said:
"It will allow for the reduction of the club's debt and enable further investment to be made in the team."
Now let me see how big is that debt again??
And "further" investment into the team....what all that money on top of Mr Boyd...
Now on consideration if they have to get rid of their existing infrastructure and say there was to be a boycott on JJB sports - I wonder what would happen to the deal and Rankers in the medium to long term?
No furniture polish required...no trophies and no family silver remaining....
Is it coincidence that we get this announcement today before a PLG/Graham Roberts/Billy Davies confirmation?
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lies, lies and damn lies!
this made me laugh...
Rangers will be 'debt free' in 12 months
GRAHAM SPIERS, Chief Sports Writer October 08 2004
David Murray, the recently reinstalled Rangers chairman, yesterday emerged
from two years of lowered profile with his verbal punches flying at the
club's annual meeting at Ibrox. While apologising for the financial mess
of Rangers, Murray decreed he would make the club debt free within 12
months, while also throwing jabs at various targets, including Celtic.
Asked if Rangers, who controversially supply their own replica strips,
were not being overtaken by Celtic in the retail market, Murray took a
swipe at Celtic's deal with Nike, while claiming that Rangers were still
the market leader.
"We already make what Celtic are going to make," claimed Murray. "At
present, we make between £5m and £7m a year on our retail. It's all very
well making a deal with Nike, but all you're doing is getting a part of
the profit you could be making.
"The companies who sell these strips take a significant profit. The way we
do it, by cutting out the market, we enjoy the majority of the profits
from our strips. Rangers are the market leaders in this area of
sportswear."
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I can't see how boycotting JJB will hurt Rangers... if you're talking about Celtic products then fair enough but for unrelated items what would it do to harm Rangers?
If JJB have taken a deal from Rangers that see Rangers weakened further I don't see the problem.
JJB going bankrupt (extreme I know)would only make the deal void would it not; giving Rangers their £18m up front then allowing them to continue to make their own sales?
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Good afternoon lhads,I had posted something similar to this on the previous thread. I know its off topic and all, but I just wondering if anyone knows of any spare tickets floating around for sundays game. Im flying over to Edinburgh for the weekend,and had resigned myself to watching the game from the Hibs end,but now its a complete sell out. Worst case scenario,I was hoping someone could recommend a good Celtic bar relatively close to the stadium to watch the game with fellow Tims. All suggestions welcome.
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On a purely personal level. I don't care if JJB go bust thanx to our bhoycot, and to be honest, Scotland's input will represent approx' 10% of their net income (based on populace numbers), I am of the oppinion that I will NEVER knowingly contribute "One Thin Dime" (C) "The Bunnet" to that lot.
I agree, paying that extra £30-£40 for the kid's tops from official vendors is painful, but I do it knowing I have helped my club financialy in some way.
We all give, tickets, grub, windfall, etc. So let's give directly.
The bhoycot has begun.............. ;o)
pablophanque
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BhoyDell, I loved your ‘buy direct’ plug. Several people have agreed to advertise on CQN, including AMEX and HP, but a certain computer company with a direct model declined.
Gerry, this is a good deal for Celtic, not Rangers.
The important point here, is that this is not new money. It is simply pulling some of tomorrows money forward, and paying someone a cut for the benefit.
Debt by another name, and very expensive debt at that.
Belfast Bhoy, HBOS would not have to approve this, though they are free to withdraw overdrafts at any point if they wish.
FrankieBhoy, agree, I have no beef with JJB, they are the same as any other retailer, only they are making money out of Rangers.
Malone19, I understand that JJB have an exclusive on Rangers merchandise, otherwise this would be a great folly on their part.
I almost ran with the heading ‘Rangers stips no longer available on 4000 UK retail outlets’, which has as much relevance as ‘Rangers strips available on 430 JJB outlets’.
Anyone think that Generation of Domination is a wee bit closer today?
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I think the crux of the matter is:
What input did HBOS have in all of this deal?
If they were pushing the deal is it indeed a "Fire Sale" or are they standing back waiting to clean up the mess.
I can see this ending like our families dynasty, but do they have a bunnet to take over?
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The rights to Rangers merchandising;
I stand to be corrected (and it would depend on the T&Cs of the contract) but if JJB go bust the receivers would own the rights to be sold to the highest bidder!
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What happens with foriegn sales and exposure? JJB are only nationwide are they not?
On Celtic selling strips in their own stores, would it not be benificial to take £5-10 off the strip prices? This would still cost more than you can get it elsewhere but the number buying from Celtic stores would (I'd imagine) increase significantly. I would think (I hope to God) Celtic have researched into finding an optimal price and I'm wrong.
About DM comments - Is the Celtic deal not worth £5m bottom-line minus bonus payments for success/sales figures? This would not take into account Celtic shop sales would it? Roughly how much are these sales worth each year?
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Celtic's Merchandising sales for the 6 months to 31 December 2005, which includes christmas was £9.6m. Guess our annual sales will be around £15m - £17m or so? If Rangers make £5m to £7m on a £20m turnover you would imagine we make a similar return - guessing around £3.5m to £4m?
The Murray deal has two benefits to Rangers - cash up front and the transfer of risk on the garments industry profitability staying intact - the garments business is a tough one to make money in. Murray has transferred that risk for an, apparently, smaller annual guaranteed sum. Wait and see how this one turns out over the period of the deal.
What will be interesting is the nature of the roulette wheel he puts this cash on. Given his reliance on fixed asset valuations for Balance Sheet stability this really is a last gamble for him at Ibrox. His last BIG gamble, Advocaat, failed. I can't see this one working either.
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Apologies if this is not the most appropriate place to run this but I feel it needs to be seen by as many people as possible.
Arsenal supporting Israeli Apartheid
ACTION ALERT: Arsenal supporting Israeli Apartheid March 2006
Arsenal Football Club has just signed a sponsorship deal to promote Israel as a tourist destination from next season. The £350,000 agreement makes Israel Arsenal's "official and exclusive travel destination."
Below are just some of the benefits Israel will receive from this deal:
- Israel will be featured on digital perimeter boards and 450 high-definition LCD screens at the stadium on game days;
- Israel will feature on the team's website, Arsenal.com; and in itsmagazine.
- The televised ads will reach audiences in an estimated 198 countries.
- The Israeli Tourism Ministry will receive intellectual propertyrights,the use of the team logo and the right to use photos of the team and itsplayers in ads.
- The Israeli Tourism Minister will be allowed use the stadiumbanquetinghall twice a year and organize an exhibition at the end of the playingseason
- The stadium will hold permanent sale tables for Israel t-shirts
The financial advisers Ernst & Young were employed to draft thisproposalwith the aim of bringing an extra 2 million tourists to Israel annually.Arsenal FC and individual players have been in the forefront of the'KickRacism Out of Football Campaign'. For Arsenal to sign a deal to promoteIsrael which denies Palestinians human rights and is illegally occupyingPalestinian territory is to go against the very principles of anti-racism.
This campaign is supported by the Islamic Human Rights Commission, Palestinian Return Centre, Innovative Minds, the British Muslim Initiative, the Muslim Association of Britain, the Palestinian Forum in Britain, Palestine Solidarity Campaign and the Scottish-Palestinian Solidarity
Suggested Action
All campaigners are urged to:
a) Contact Arsenal Football Club reminding them that Israel is a racistapartheid state which is consistently in breach of international law initshuman rights abuses; and that such a deal endangers Arsenal's anti-racistreputation:
Commercial and Marketing Department
Arsenal Football Club
Arsenal Stadium Avenell Road
Highbury
London N5 1BU
Email: marketing@arsenal.co.uk Tel. 020 7704 4170
Fax. 020 7704 4171
b) Write to the players at the same address. Many of them have actively supported Kick Racism Out of Football.
c) Contact the Football Association's Kick Racism out of FootballCampaign reminding them that Israel is a racist apartheid state which is consistently in breach of international law in its human rights abuses; and that such a deal endangers the FAs anti-racist reputation and the KickitOut campaign itself. Ask the FA to use its influence to prevent the dealgoing ahead:
Kick It Out PO Box 29544 London EC2A 4WRT:
020 7684 4884
F: 020 7684 4885
Email: info@kickitout.org
Please CC all correspondence to info@palestinecampaign.org,
info@aqsa.org.uk and info@ihrc.org.uk so we can track the number of letters sent.
More info on www.Palestinecampaign.org
More Info
TBE.
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Clearly Le-pew will have to try and do a MON or a WGS and win the title in his first year. If he does not and if the rumours are true that he has signed a 2 year deal his second season like that of WGS could be the telling one.
Bringing in new players several at a time can have its drawbacks. Celtic did it both with MON and WGS the latter however having the stability of 5 senior seasoned professionals who stayed with the club from the MON era.
There will no doubt be a clear out of sorts over Mordor way with the likes of Kryakios, Andrews, Rae, dare I say Dado purrso and wee Bazza for the order of the boot. New players = tranfer fees wages and the problems of relocation. Can anyone really see wee pepe going too rangers and building his team on bosmans.
I welcome the challenge smell a few Jean alan boomsongs arriving soon to shores near us, and he`s been found out to be mince in the epl.
Hearts will get stronger Hibs I believe weaker the rest will take their usual places at the table, rangers will enter new territory and we will grow stronger with every game.
Time to ensure the jam tartlets get second place and the hibees stay in touch with the forces of darkness?.
Celtic SPL champions season 2005-2006.
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Ruairi
As a Leith Bhoy myself I think you may be struggling for a good Celtic bar near the ground. If you head along to the ground you might be able to pick up a spare ticket from one of the Celtic supporters buses.
Failing that Robbie's on Leith Walk is usually quite welcoming and might be showing the game.
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Paul67
I've not read anywhere that Rangers merchandise will not be available in non-JJB outlets, are you sure this is the case ?
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On a recent trip to Paris I happened to be browsing the Nike superstore on the Champs-elysess and noticed they were selling three strips. Brazil, Man utd and our very own hoops.
The deal with Nike will enormously help our worldwide exposure in a way that dodgy Dave could only dream of with this JJB effort.
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The agreement will allow JJB, who already have tie-ins with Wigan Athletic and Everton, to retail all Rangers' branded sports and leisurewear in their 439 stores across the UK.
It has to be exclusive otherwise there is no deal for JJB?
What I don't understand is the timescales taken - hasn't Dave been wining and dining sicne November, as well as crossing the t's and dotting the i's?
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At 4:20 PM, michael collins: And the only fake Scottish team shirt for sale in Bali is Celtic's!
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Bald Ego,
Personally I feel that this is a totally inappropriate place to post that. There are any number of Celtic sites where such ill-thought out, borderline anti-Semitic nonsense is given a hearty welcome.
It'd be a shame to ruin a decent site like this with sub-secondary school analysis of international affairs.
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Sir Paul,
Ya got it right pal.....
Spoke to Mr. Skeezick......
He laughed and laughed........
He put is rather succinctly.
"Our two Entrepreneurial Elves....... Are Skydiving Without Benefit of a 'Chute!
They are giving up 80 Million in shirt sale PROFITS, in exchange for a 48 Million Pittance,from Mr.KNIGHT! COCKAMAMIE ECONOMICS 101?.... Ya BETCHA!"
Those two SUCKERS, are Just MADE for the PUMPKIN PATCH!
So.........they are LOSING 3.5 Million EVERY YEAR...FOR THE NEXT 10 YEARS!
And Howdya like THEM APPLES?
YA Couldn't make it up!
Holy Toledo!
And THIS IS INCOME??.........
No, my Friend this is Called.....
PROFIT DRAIN!!!!
Hail! Hail!
Kojo.
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The other short-term gain is, of course, not having to pay the wages of the poor souls(?) who work in the TFOD stores.
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ItaliaBhoy,
I apolgised already if you find it inappropriate for this site so dont read it! Your pathetic attempts at a personal insult only serves to show your own ignorance about what is actually going on in the world! I'm not going to get into a political debate with you as I value this site as much as the next person.
Go back and bury your head in the sand!
TBE.
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ItaliaBhoy
Can you explain that? What makes it a "sub-secondary school analysis of international affairs"?
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This is the same Arsenal who have their new stadium sponsored by Emirates Airline.
Arsenal had to agree the Israel sponsorship with the United Arab Emirates company. They had no problem whatsover. Neither do I.
I'd like to thank Arsenal for knocking out Royal Madrid from the Champs League.
A brace of Hails and buy direct !
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Chairboy
I would be very surprised if there are not standard cease to trade t&cs that everything would revert to the other party should one cease to trade. I think on this JJB would have a lot more to worry about than the Orcs.
Paul
Surely the deal is for merchandise outwith the kit. The stores have current exclusivity on XXXXXXXL t-shirts, ugly mugs, scayr posters etc but not the kit. I fdoes it include the kit Murray has sold the family as well as it's silver.
With respect to DM's comments he was quite clearly:
a) blustering in the face of Celtic's new deal and nobody was strong enough to challenge it;
b) selling off one of the few profitable elements that he has personally backed.
He has history on this. Remember the scheme to fund Orcs of the Future when in fact the money was redirected to keep SS Dignity afloat.
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martinobhoy
cheers for the info. looking forward to weekend in edinburgh,all the more so if i can get my hands on a ticket in the celtic end. Anyhow,im off home to pack me bags,come on the bhoys!
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TBE I've always enjoyed your posts and respect your analysis and position on many things but I have to agree with ItaliaBhoy on your Arsenal posting.
Not the appropriate place to do this and the analysis amounted to out and out propaganda - not helping the process of any of us understanding what is a deeply complex and important issue.
I'd rather try to understand this from academic papers/books or seasoned commentators from both sides who are in a position to analyse and articulate this serious geopolitical issue.
I'm afraid CQN is not the place to do that.
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Jinky,
I do not have a problem with Arsenal, I come from an Arsenal supporting house (slowly but surely converting them), I cheered them on last night too.
If you read the post again you will find that no one is proposing any sanctions against Arsenal merely reminding them of the mistake they are undertaking.
TBE.
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Malone & TBE,
I'm not going to follow up my last post with an explanation. Simply because I really don't think that CQN is an appropriate place to debate this. As I said, other Celtic sites have been (imho) ruined by excessive focus on mideast politics.
I wouldn't have any interest in this site if we are to go down this road.
Incidentally, TBE, no offense meant- if any taken, apologies.
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Shamrock Diary
I appreciate that. Again, it was not my intention to cause insult and there is no obligation on anyones part to even read the post.
I admire your thought out, constructive criticism without the childish attitude of ItaliaBhoy.
Cheers
TBE
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Guys, Irish/Scottish politics is not the only flavour that can destroy a football blog.
Could we leave the Middle East problem to a forum better equipped to deal with those matters?
Tooheys new, you are correct, the deal is for all merchandise, including official flutes (oops, too political).
Kojo, smiles all round.
Is there no one out there willing to back the Generation of Domination?
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whats murray going to do with his extra money
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/h/hibernian/4789392.stm
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Paul
You bet I am.
We're looking at following the lead of teams like Real Madrid and Manchester United by exploiting our brand.
They're lining up alongside Everton and Wigan.
Bring it on.
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Paul, correct me if I'm wrong.
Has Murray not already sold off their media rights to ntl.
Does this mean that he's now sold off media rights and club merchandise?
How will these combined revenue streams compare with Celtic's in 10 years time.
Sounds a bit like what happened to Leeds United.
Still, incredibly, the laptop loyal are giving big licks to Murray again.
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Paul67,
I would definetely agree with a Generation of Domination, Rangers have to much to do with to little resources.
Would imagine a part from a couple of hiccups, everyone will be delighted with WGS WIPs.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/k/kilmarnock/4789726.stm
another good young player that´s going to cost murray more
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Paul,
Although I am optimistic about the weakness of this deal, and I see it as the start of Davros' exit from Mordor, I've always been slightly sceptical on the "generation of dominance" theory.
If they get LeGuen, then I expect them to improve significantly next season. He is a good coach and he will have cash to spend.
And remember us at the start of MON's first season? We were in a much worse state than TFOD are now, but we gambled financially on a talented manager and it paid off. Who is to say that it won't work for TFOD?
One well-resourced season under a good manager can act as a springboard to effective dominance (or at least parity...)
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The only way I can see this being a good move for Rangers is if it guarentees them Champions League football (using the £18m to vastly improve the team) for the next 10 years - if they really are in the situation currently where they would be unlikely to win the league for years to come. Whatever way you look at it the deal has high-risk written all over it. Not only is it high-risk but I can't really see the risk vs. gain balance... it's a lot of risk for minimal gain (if it everything turns out perfectly for them).
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Paul
Generation?
More like a Millenium of domination!
And you can take that to the TSB Super Squirrel account and ask for a free balloon!
Martybhoy
(Smiling so much his face hurts)
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CQN Soundtrack to lighten the mood; a certain tune by Messrs Wonder & McCartney, come on altogether now guys.....
bdb
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I always think it's a sign that things are going well when there's no real Celtic news to discuss.
So we'll make do with football merchandising deals.
Just another thought on this topic. It's not long since Rangers took the whole thing in-house including the manufacturing. Now they've gone in totally the opposite direction by outsourcing the whole operation. Just shows the desperation of Murray and his financial juggling act.
I think we will see Rangers goods in non-JJB sites but those non-JJB companies will have to buy from JJB. I don't think many stores outwith the Rangers heartlands will bother. As we go global, Rangers go local.
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You just have to read the comedy chat in the evening times from Darryl King....this guy should do stand up!
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You just have to read the comedy chat in the evening times from Darryl King....this guy should do stand up!
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ValueBhoy, Murray has bought back the media rights sold to NTL for £1, but has not disclosed any contingency payments due as part of the buy-back.
MartyBhoy, “Millennium of Domination”, big smile at that one.
FrankieBhoy, another excellent point, you are on a roll: is it a sign that things are going well when we have nothing much to talk about.
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I see it's started already, Coupet to sign for them for 4 million.
That's what I don't understand with Murray, he feeds the spin thru the tabloids which gives an expectation of huge investment and big name signings.
When reality bites and only half the 18 million is available for players then he's back at square one with people asking where the next moonbeam is coming from.
Don't you just love the guy !
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We really should hold tight on the generation of dominance!!
Now nobody would love it more than me ( i can assure you !!) but if the huns sign say 4 very good footballers next season - along with a top notch coach - we could struggle - remember we will (hopefully) have the CL to distract us - something i hope they wont - but that will benefit them as it has us this season.
They will probably have 10 - 15 million to spend while we will have 6-7!!
Next year could be a big big season
I really hope we are not complacent at board,and managerial level and we keep our strength`s and get rid of our weak!!
So the challenge is there - lets take it on and hopefully finish them off for years!
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I feel a neganon or p8ddy moment coming on.
There is a problem with a generation of domination if the opposition steal a march on you. If the Mint does produce a transfer budget of £20m and Le Guen then they might just begin to produce a side capable of challenging and winning in the short term.
In my book even one win never mind 2 on the trot destroys the generation theory.
The Mint may be a scrap metal dealer of lies and deceits but be sure that Le Guen armed with £20m is a much stronger and more potent threat.
I would prefer that Le Guen is not part of the equation, however, that scenario is diminishing rapidly.
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I see Daryll King in the ET is saying Rangers will make at least £6million a year, and hailing this as a great deal (whilst not providing any evidence to support this claim).
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Murray say a few years ago that they were making 7million a year (when we announced our Nike deal)?
So aren't they a million a season down already?
Honestly, how do guys like this pass their journalism exams?
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The big difference is that they'll be spending 10yrs worth of income in one hit, one hell of a gamble!!! What do they spend over the next 9yrs??
They are in a desperate position which we can only benefit from.
bdb
G.O.D Believer
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martybhoy,
just after reading that turd darrell king in the times aswell. I dont think its possible for him to get his head up Murrays arse. Gave me a great laugh though,especially the "impeccible timing" bit!!
http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/hi/sport/6024870.html
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The Mint just can't help himself. There he was, trying to downsize the business to an affordable level to manage his mountainous debt when, once again, his massive ego got the better of him.
Now he has done what many of us would have loved to do - he has made Rangers a SMALLER club. That's £20million of turnover oot the windae plus any hope of future expansion on the merchandising side - and just look what growth in that area of operations has done for Real Madrid ManU and, you'd better believe it, Celtic.
All for the sake of, at most, a £10million cash splurge on second-rate French players who will demand first-rate wages that Rangers can now afford even less than before.
Murray has sold a cash cow for one last gamble. Just as, with MIH, he sold Murray International Metals for a few bob to gamble on property investments.
What next:
"Can I put Dado Prso on the 3.15 at Plumpton?"
For Murray, the end is no longer nigh; but it has only been postponed...
and is now more certain than ever.
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You're so right Martybhoy the reporting in the Evening Times would shame a well known and despised fanzine. Away from the "Revolution" this amused me most;
Boyd's back with a bang
KRIS BOYD pulled on his boots yesterday afternoon and scored from the spot for Rangers reserves – just 15 hours after returning from Spain.
The striker, who missed a glaring opportunity in front of goal against Villarreal on Tuesday night, has insisted that he will bounce back from the disappointment and made his mark when he turned out at the Falkirk Stadium last night.
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Ruairi,
Darryl King, comedy genius. My favourite bit was when he said he wasn't there at the start but he'll be here now for the next bit.
Murray bankrupted Scottish football last time round. This time he will bankrupt Rangers.
Good luck to him.
Personally, I'd love to here from neg anon or P8ddy to see what their thoughts are? p8ddy, the jetlag must be wearing off now the moonbeams are poking through the curtains!!!
Badlybdarwnbhoy
Lovin the G.O.D. Believer, but I'm a M.O.D. believer too.
Bring it on.
Martybhoy
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Otis,
Villareal to Falkirk.....in the same sentence, comedy I tell you, Comedy.
I'm putting him up for the CQN comedy Oscar nomination!
The best bit about all this is these idiots are dying to believe as they have no other hope.
A final act of desperation!
Hail Hail
Martybhoy
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Dare we listen to the phone ins?
Just waiting for the first so called Celtic fan claiming "we're going to be left trailing in their wake, we're doomed I tell you!"
And I don't expect anybody will have the brains or inclination to correct him. Give me strength.
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Just a couple of points. perhaps already made?
- total staff under threat is circa 30 from HQ and all shop staff. I understand staff under a certain age or with limited service will be getting no redundancy payout - the rest will get statutory minimum - once the "consultation is over" of course (they are not admitting redundancies at present.
- all stores closing except the stadium one and perhaps the franchise (Hamilton)- as these are all leasehold there will be savings in rent/running costs
- JJb get Licence to control all rangers goods including Kit. At present one retailer is not supplied with their tops as they 'broke the licensing agreement' effectively by selling tops too cheap. No doubt JJB will be looking to try and knock other competitors out of the way (though presumably the Office of Fair Trading will be watching!)
Hermes
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Looks like costcutting and short term fix rolled into one. The ugly, unacceptable face of capitalism (job losses on poorly paid workers to finance extravagant signings).
I feared a bored millionaire was about to throw away some money, how this can be spinned positively defies belief. Alastair Campbell could learn a few tricks from this guy.
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Regarding NTL, Murray bought back the rights for £1? Admittedly there may be contingency payments, but you'd have to believe it's a deal whereby Rangers will never be paying back what revenue they were paid (pro rated).
If we could go back in time, would it be right for Celtic to take the deal? At the time I thought it was shrewd move on the part of our board, but it doesn't appear that we;ve maximised the potential of the multimedia rights in the way I thought we would.
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Cleticbog 5:37,
Couldn't agree with you more, and Murray's demise will be a bigger story than all of this. It will be interesting to see what the Receiver does with the assets.
Apologies for not knowing how JJB were performing. Just goes to show that image + high street presence + Wigan = perception.
Happy days indeed.
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As much as I generally have nothing but criticism for Murray I must say I think this is an excellent deal by Murray for Rangers.
The high street sales market is dying, and quickly. A £48 million deal with a high street outlet over 10 years is a smart move as it is very likely there will not be similar deals on offer to other clubs simply because high street chains will be cutting costs as cheaper ways of shopping are found by increasing numbers of people.
Celtic, should they wait even 3 years for a similar deal will already have missed the boat. Murray and Rangers will be getting what is left of the high street market with little for anyone else in the future.
Simply put, very similar to the SPL and Setanta (was going to be Sky...).
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Another point is in 10 years when the current agreement Rangers will have no infrastructure in the way of shops or staff to start working in house so they will need to hawk their goods round all the retailers and try and seek the best offer. So though the longer this goes on the worse it looks to me. Short term win very long term pain!
Hermes
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My dear friend, Johnny,
First things.....well...foist.
You,pal are doing more than Yeoman Service in Propagating the emergence of the CELTIC YOOF JUGGERNAUT, that will hit the Celtic, First Team Pool with a Michty Splash.....Circa 2007!
Thereby, vindicating, Sir Paul's Progo of PERENNIAL DOMINATION( This Progo has been ramped upwards, because of the recent Foolhardy Fiasco, birthed by the PUMPKIN BROTHERS!
Back to Maverick!
Yes,in your prediction of Ray's Migration to DONKEY ISLE..... you are right ON the Money.
His latest Escape Rope,which he has lowered,has been found, to his horror and consternation..... WAY,WAYTOO SHORT!
It fails to reach,even..... HALF WAY DOWN.....FROM HIS PINNACLE OF MOUNTING DEBTS!
There will be no ESCAPE FROM that OLD DEBBLE..... MOUNTING and INTRANSIGENT DEBT!
The resurgence of the G.A. is based on wild speculation and downright POPPYCOCK!
If that will successfully happen.....
If X number of Talented Players will be Imported.
If a Managerial MESSIAH will come down to Earth.
If the aforesaid MESSIAH....... CAN REALLY TURN the IBROX WATER, into WINE!
Too Many "IF's"and not enough "WILLS"!
Sir Paul and your good self are correct.
"The Ibrox WINTER in the WILDERNESS", is just about ready, to commence.
"The SUMMER OF CELTIC" is just about ready, to begin.
Hail! Hail!
Hibernian 0 Celtic 25
Kojo.
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PGGTIPS
"The high street sales market is dying and quickly"
Prove or back up that statement please? Personally, I think that is very high and wide of the mark.
The highstreet is dying.....well when it dies in say 5 years time, Rahngers will be queing up at the JJB creditors door waiting for their 2p in the pound.
Hail Hail
Martybhoy
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Paul-
I was in the paper shop at 5.40am this morning-the value of rangers income from jjb-just by looking at the back pages- varied from £18M TO £98M !
You would not believe it.....
I didn,t -I had a good wee laugh to myself due to my " insider information " from CQN.
Also-because of the weird hours I work ,I get to listen to "Wake Up To Money " on Radio 5.......
I,m sure jjb have posted a few profits warnings in the last few months......
Out of the frying pan.......
I,m off for a kip....
noel.
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pggtips ........murray has also sold the online shop
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martybhoy
The highstreet is dying.....well when it dies in say 5 years time, Rahngers will be queing up at the JJB creditors door waiting for their 2p in the pound.
By that stage they will already have £33 million for HBOS.
That is why its a smart deal.
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This is great news......
Looks like UEFA is going to take action against that lot for a host of sins.
http://www.uefa.com/uefa/Keytopics/kind=512/newsId=402870.html
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"The high-street is dying"
Have you been on Buchanan Street on a Saturday afternoon?
The "high street" is currently what is keeping the entire British economy afloat.
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PGG Tips
If at current prices Rangers deal is worth £30m per annum, over 10 years that is £200m. If we take away your £33m that leaves them short £167m.........
If you reckon that makes good sense, I'd love to do some business with you as I've got a few left handed lightbulbs I need to sell ye ;-)
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Sorry, pggtips, I obviously did mean £20m per annum there not £30m. Pressed the wrong button.
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McStay- brilliant news! (and unexpected news!) What "discriminatory chants" I wonder..? And can punishment be back-dated say...ooh, 133 years?
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Italiabhoy,
You want to try Oxford St on a Saturday......not pleasant and that is minus the bams!
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I know it has been said before but,when will the media start asking DM some searching questions?,when he introduced the scheme to make his own shirts it was proclaimed as a stroke of genius,(quite why Man Utd,Arsenal,Liverpool etc hadn't thought of it was deemed irrelevant),now he has given up on that idea,yet another example of his ability to move the goalposts and still retain credibility,maybe,just maybe, this time some journalist will ask those probing questions,not holding my breath here in sunny San Francisco.
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Couldn't believe it when I seen it.
This is a great step forward my UEFA!!!!!!!
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Chairbhoy
I cannot give you an example of such a retail deal, the nearest example is when you sublet some space to a concession. That is why I think that it is a very good deal for DM but as I said in the earlier post "I hae me doots about Rangers benefitting". The bank will be delighted as you point out.
Re. LG, my understanding is thjat DM is (rightly) applying a good PR dictat - don't give them all the news at the same time. Wait until Rangers lose to Kilmarnock then make the announcement.
Surely it's how you interpret a good deal, this year the accounts will look good, an extra 18M T/O, debt reduction, better bottom line.
That's it from then on it's down hill all the way – the MINT has re-written the law of diminution returns - could you please let me know when was the last time you heard of two companies entering into a 10 year retail deal. (not including property/leaseholds etc.)
BTW No sign of your PLG - heard Senegal were after him - still confident?
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Marty,
The first year I lived in London I thought it would be a laugh to do my Christmas shopping the Saturday before the 25th on Oxford Street.
I was nearly crushed, and narrowly escaped being flattened by a routemaster when some retail terrorist barged me off the pavement.
Aah, so young, so naive...!
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Sorry just logged on a little while ago. To FrankieBhoys's comments at 3:41. You might be right, boycott the JJB shops and could have negative impact on their stability, go under and Rangers get their kit back with upfront money. Could be what Murrays thinking. Although this seems highly unlikely to happen. I don't agree with the boycott unless they dress the place up in royal blue, then I would say absolutely.
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italiabhoy,
They closed it off this year to traffic that weekend. And it was still mental. And that was just all the bhoys buying their crimbo strips from niketown!!!
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I know I posted this on an earlier thread today but is there any doubt in any of the bloggers mind that Le Guen is not coming. Why does he have to wait any longer except that if we and they lose this w.e they go 5th.
It was a relativley low key announcment by Murrays standards. This may well be to do with the fact that it is not as big a deal as he has hoped or something else.
If he is hoping that this time Le Guen can do what Advocaat could not do and on a tenth , thats right a tenth of the budget that he was given 8 years ago then I dont buy it.
He does not love them enough to blow his fortune away on them and why no unveiling of Le Guen yet. Le Guen is a graduate of economics. So surely he is aware of their perilous finacial state.
Answer Billy Davies
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martybhoy
If at current prices Rangers deal is worth £20m per annum, over 10 years that is £200m. If we take away your £33m that leaves them short £167m.........
Well Murray I think said £9 million for merchandising last year (after costs) so a guaranteed £2million plus £3million minimum means at least £5 million from a resource which is sure to plummet seems good from where I am sitting.
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Re: potential action by UEFA...
Will UEFA also be investigating the disgrace provocation shown by Villareal players who brazenly turned up to their own stadium in a bus - clearly marked CF Villareal- only an hour before a vital match?
What was this supposed to achieve? How did they expect 10,000 ticketless tanked-up neds to behave?
Such Mourinho-esque showboating is surely little more than a red-rag to a bull (to use a local analogy)?
I reckon Villlareal should be kicked out and replaced by the mighty Rangers.
But you won't get the Timmy-luvin powers-that-be at the Vatican-controlled UEFA HQ investigated that, eh?
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Interesting on the Clyde phone-in tonight.
It appears to be all Celtic supporters trying to point out what a dud deal this is. With the panel telling them how childish and wrong they are.
Of course Keevins 'et al' think it a fantastic deal and are not slow in telling every Celt who phones in.
"sour grapes, jealousy, how can £48 million over 10 years be a bad thing?" as you would have expected.
Oh how i wish just one articulate and knowledgable one of us would phone up and put them right. I would like to be that person but I don't have all the facts and figures at my disposal
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pggtips,
Are you sure ye are no driving a Pumpkin Dray?
Kojo.
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From uefa.com
Disciplinary
UEFA starts Rangers proceedings
Thursday, 9 March 2006
UEFA has instigated disciplinary proceedings against Scottish club Rangers FC for various infringements relating to the UEFA Champions League first knockout round tie against Villarreal CF.
Improper conduct
The European governing body will give particular attention to the improper conduct and hooliganism of Rangers supporters in the return leg in Spain on 7 March, as well as to the fans' discriminatory chants in both fixtures against the Primera División team. The Glasgow side went out of the competition on away goals following a 1-1 draw at Villarreal on Tuesday.
WOW!!!!!!!
Darryl Bentfoot will have an interesting article to write tonight won't he!!!! :-)
Wonder if he'll quote UEFA word for word, after all that is what a broadsheet worth its name should do.
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re. McStay 8's posting on the UEFA disciplinary action:-
".....as well as to the fans' discriminatory chants in both fixtures " is the bit that intrests me.
IF this gets charged 'guilty as proven' I wonder what will (or will there) be the precedent for the SFA about their fans "...discriminatory chants "
Intresting times ahead, indeed.
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Hairbhear,
why bother with no-marks like keevins?
personally I think the more the orcs believe this is a good deal, the better. it ups expectation levels (and we all know how deluded they are at the best of times), and when the harsh reality bites- as it always does- then they feel even more mystified and betrayed than they otherwise would.
cue the protests...
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kojo
I think its a smart deal. Time will tell if it is or it isn't.
Given Murray's desire for the headlines, I feel this has been one of his better days as Rangers chairman, but I could well be wrong, as I say time will tell.
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pggtips,
"given Murray's desire for the headlines"...
I think you've hit the nail on the head right there. This is a great deal if you want to create a short-term feelgood factor and get a few easy headlines.
Which is Murray's forte- his skill is as a a showman after all, not a businessman (not my words- those of former Mordor director Hugh Adams).
But is it a good deal in the medium or long-term?
Personally I doubt it, but as you say, we shall see...
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It's on days like today when you realise the importance of Paul67 and his CQN movement.
This is a shockingly bad move by Murray, the lack of business sense of which can be torn apart in a matter of minutes. Yet the 'old' media are falling overthemselves to praise the business sense of it. Not one word of complaint about the people losing jobs over it. Right now, they are discussing the 'sadness' of a proposed bhoycott. What a joke.
So lets hope for a generation of domination for the new media never mind the celtic!
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Kojo
Not only are they losing £3.5M per annum but the net present value of 10 £3M payments yearly is only £26,256,191.79
assumming inflation at 2.5% per annum so they are losing another £3.75M in total over the ten years. If only inflation would go to 5% p.a. then they would lose nearly £7M, lets hear it for inflation dont you just love it.
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Italiabhoy
That is my point, Murray in his pursuit of headlines has made terrible decisions that have put Rangers on the edge of liquidation.
By contrast I feel this decision which is also a publicity-seeking stunt, also has positive benefits for Rangers
i.e. cuts his interest payments on short-term loans, £3 million guaranteed and getting out of a sector that will very shortly be in decline.
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Where is this £20m a year figure coming from? I'm lost!
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pggtips.......
9M x 10 years = 90M profit
4.8M x 10 years = 48M profit
what would you rather have?
aye it's a good deal.
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pggtips
While direct retail sales (mainly internet) have grown by huge amounts high streets sales have also grown. OK maybe the growth is incomparitable but the high street will always be there.
Also, to my understanding the deal with JJB also entails internet sales, can anyone confirm this?
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This is a double edged sword.
Now that there is a general perception that Rangers have money to spend, agents, club chairmen and an assortment of 2nd tier players will all have dollar, pounds, euro signs in their eyes. Asking prices for players will escalate as will wage demands.
So we will see lots of headlines with sky high figures and the usual hype and media fawning over the same second rate quality Big Eck recruited in his desperation to match the mighty 'Tic.
'GG
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malone 19
the 20M is what rangers turnover last year on merchandising
(9M profit)
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Forget this PR spin for Rangers. I still got my doubts about Le Guen joining.
Real Madrid anyone? anyone?
Regardless if PLG does join, if the targets WGS has identified for the summer acually come to fruition.Then i say bring on PLG and the rest.
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also murray said they will cut debt with the 18M ......... so there may not be so much in the pot for transfers
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The whole thing reeks of stage managed mint at his best. He knows how to handle the media, ill give him that. All the laptop loyal are falling over themselves to proclaim what a great deal it is and anyone questioning it is a celtic fan who is either paranoid or has sour grapes. Typical of the SUN to splash £80m over the back page and get all the great unwashed believing it.
Anyone else think the le guen deal isnt the cert thats been reported and murrays released this little sweetner so he can say "ok so its billy davies but he has millions to spend!!"
Who described it as selling the family silver to get some silver. Think that sums it up!
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gerry
£18 million lump sum will cut short-term interest payments therefore subtracting 48 from 90 is inoperable.
Also the 90 isn't guaranteed the 48 is, and Rangers can make more from the deal if conditions are met.
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Gavil Guy-
well said.
A bit of common sense there.
noel.
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Chairbhoy
Me again! Just some comments re your post:
SHORT TERM
Agree 100%
MEDIUM TERM
I think you are being influenced by Paul's comment "so it would be reasonable to assume Rangers earn around £7m profit from retail activity." To have a return of 10% on sales to profit is always considered outstanding in the retail trade, so for Rangers to make 33% would simply result in the retail director being headhunted by every big retailor!
Rangers will not make a bottom line contribution of 7m, what they might do is show a 7m profit before taxation, H.O. costs, etc. Remember DM has had the opportunity to hide a lot of the real costs under the Murray holdings accounts. There is no doubt in my mind that DM will have used every piece of creative accountancy to up the price for the shops and,I repeat, I think he has managed it.
LONG TERM
The value of money might double every 10 yrs but not the money of small high street shops.
My comment would be "THE BOY'S DONE WELL"
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Listen to Paul and Kojo.
Don't get personal about JJB. They've spotted the sucker and taken him for all they could.
Just don't buy any Rangers strips from them. Or anything else.
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Paul67,
Do you Peter Lawell might be having a laugh at ridiculous furore by these muppets in the media regarding this announcement?
Because if they would actually sit down and think about it it's not that spectacular. There is a distict possibilty this could all go tits up big time.
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Pggtips, while High St sales might be falling (though I do not believe they are, I have several clients in the retail agency sector reporting well), Rangers and every other teams retails sales have been growing year on year for many years now.
In the last two years alone Rangers retail sales totalled £38m.
Noel90, I heard that some newspapers were talking figures around 90million.
Let me have a go at some hard figures:
Rangers earned £20.5m from retail sales last year, projected over 10 years; £205m. Realised deal; £48m, deficit, £157m.
Maybe the newspapers were talking about Roubles, not Sterling.
Thismancraig, many thanks for your kind words.
WGS, I am very sure Peter Lawwell had a hearty laugh today.
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PABLOPHANQUE
You were asking about James Grants latest album........
Excellent-the man is a musical genius and a gifted singer/songwriter...and Celtic daft....
My good friend Whitedoghunch-through his connections-blagged me an autographed copy.....
jealous.........?
you should be.......
noel.
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pggtips ........... it's more like the turnover/profit would go up
who do you think that buys rangers strips and the likes ......
rangers fans.........are they going to stop, do you think the bottom is going to fall out of the football merchandising business?
plus..........
rangers debt stands at 23M the now and that's not including the 50M debt murray moved form rangers to MIH.
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Gerry
Ahhh... So while £48m over ten years would be a bad deal given the profits of around £7m a couple of years back would be a bad deal the profits have risen to £9m and they will now be recieving only £3m per year in the place of merchandising?...
...Great! Even Better! :-)
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If there was ever a doubt about the media's willingness to spin positively for Murray, today dispelled it for good.
Announced as a £48million deal.
Scottish Sun front page = £80million deal.
Daily Record front page = £90 million deal.
It's time to record some numbers for future use. Watch for the £18 million in the summer. This from a man who couldn't find an extra £100k to fund Riordan. That in itself may cost them European football of any kind next season.
JJoBy sports has seen the last of my custom. Customer choice, I'll excercise my right to shop elsewhere. This talk of Celtic losing out if we don't buy Celtic strips from JJoBy sports is nonsense. If you're going out to buy a Celtic top you will buy that Celtic anyway. Just from somewhere else.
SCOTTISH FOOTBALL IS ROCKED.
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Please check out this webpage
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/r/rangers/3405121.stm
In particular the following quote
"The really strong part is the retail. Over a year ago, we bought out Nike for £2m or £3m and we are the first club to manufacture and distribute our own merchandise.
"That side of the business will contribute £7m in profit
Given he has just sold the retail part of the club for 48 million over 10 years, then had he done nothing, he would have generated 70 million!!
Something doesnt add up
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Chennaiseabird-7.37pm
"Just don't buy any Rangers strips from them.".....
A typo - Shug?
noel.
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Reckon Mr Murray was sending out a signal with his moonbeam comment, as the words of the song below prove.
Or would you like to swing on a star
Carry moonbeams home in a jar
And be better off than you are
Or would you rather be a fish?
A fish won't do anything, but swim in a brook
He can't write his name or read a book
To fool the people is his only thought
And though he's slippery, he still gets caught
But then if that sort of life is what you wish
You may grow up to be a fish
A new kind of jumped-up slippery fish
Have not had such a pleasant day for quite a while, enjoying browsing the various forums, according to the massed hordes Le Guen has signed and is signing nearly the entire French national team with his £48 million budget!!!, and he has tempted Zidane to play on for another year to fulfil his ambition of playing for the club he always supported ;)
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seltik2
They say that a fish rots from the head down.
That's what smells.
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Paul,
It seems to be the received wisdom on CQN that this is a very bad mistake for Rangers long term (and I hope to God it is) business wise. Could you explain to accountancy illiterati like myself (preferably in words of 1 syllable) why this is so?
By the bye, BBC Scotland barely gave their "fans" attack on the Villareal bus any mention, except that they might be fined, which should be no problem after the monies they are receiving from JJB. I would have thought UEFA might see it as worthy of them being banned from Europe. After all, English clubs were banned because of their supporters attacking other supporters, not the actual TEAM!!
Lang may they languish in the nether regions of TFOD and bring on the millenium of domination.
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do you think the bottom is going to fall out of the football merchandising business?
Yes I do.
Apart from that, if I were Murray I would be, politely explaining to Rangers fans that they need not pump money into JJB sports as he already has their money.
Murray will make this clear by increasing other revenue streams, especially season book prices.
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As part of my Lenten penance I listed briefly to Snyde. It is brillian comedy. Fraser Wishart claimed that there is no way that Rankers are earning £3M a year profit from merchandising so they get more money fom the JJB deal. Does he believe that JJB are a charity? They are clearly anticipating (and will have done considerable amount of work to ensure this) a profit on their investment and Dodgy Dave has claimed many times in the past how well it is going but no Fraser knows better.
I know I should know better by now, but the old medias reaction is frightening. There will undoubtedly be a short term upside for TFOD but in the LT there is now way they can get to a stage that they will be able to repalce this turnover.
Even if you are willing to believe that this is indeed a Moonbeam, can somebody not just ask why are you doing the exact opposite of what you said and did 2 years ago? Why were you so wrong then but so right now.
I am away to lie down in a darkened room.
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Ach far too much stuff about THEM and big "hard sums" numbers for ma sunfried wee brain.
Can anybody give an inside line on this? If it's true there's is there something that can be done?
JINKY's DILEMMA?
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Much as I would love to believe this is a bad deal for Rangers, it would appear to be so from all the 'expert analysis' on this site, I cannot understand how we can all be sure without some detailed information as to the nature of the deal.
Exactly what 'rights' have been bought or retained by respective parties ? what form of restrictions are there on RFC from aggressively growing their in stadium operation ? What share of their £7m did this provide etc ?
I hope it is as bad as it appears, but I am not sure we can be certain.
To be honest I would be more concerned about a Billy Davis than a PLG, Billy Davis would work to a more restricted budget and do as told, PLG would demand, and get, £Ms to blow on a few 'lightweight' frenchmen.
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pggtips......
ok then.
if nothing elae I've had a laugh
laugh
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Breaking news-
Pablophanque has just put the 1st months rent down on his shiny new BLOG
noel.
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ooppss......taht should read "nothing else"
have to stop this laughing when typing.....:-)
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On the general topic of a JJB boycott. I would not condone such an action. Why? I'll tell you. In the future we want to be able to make agreements with business partners with the confidence we will not have to share or dilute our benefit to placate of the other half's fans. Let’s cut the codependence restraints now. We said let the Old Firm label die then let it die. Let’s walk the walk. We should not cultivate a restrictive business environment for Celtic where the reaction of their side needs to be a consideration. We are a Global Brand lets not get mired in parochial issues; lets not get tarred with the same brush…
We need to provide a case study for future partners that business in Glasgow does not have to be multilateral. If you want to bury them do so by negotiating better deals and employing people who can optimally manage your assets.
Lets manage the image of Celtic and there support as a PROGRESSIVE ‘Movement’. That is how we will win; we will become a more attractive business partner. Few Marketing Execs would see tremendous benefit to aligning with a Brand and support that is seen as small-minded, parochial, reactionary and bigoted. Let’s leave that to someone else.
JJB is not something we should worry about, my even be an unintentional Trojan Horse from our perspective. JJB should not influence the aware fan – you should be buying from Celtic Stores where possible.
Let's leave the last century think to those that can not move forward. The Future is ours, the future is GREEN.
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Paul67
The Rangers Retail Division Sales of £20.7m for the 12 months to 30 Jun 05 included kit sales. From season 05/06 the 4 year Umbro deal kicked in (‘Worth up to £6.5m p.a.’ according to BBC website). I think you need to deduct the ‘Umbro factor’ from the headline Retail sales figure you are using. Instead of Rangers selling £6.8m p.a. Retail contribution (£20.7m x 33%) I believe they have sold something closer to £5m p.a. Retail contribution (£15m x 33%). I assume your contribution (33%) is OK although gut feel is that it’s on the high side.
Why would JJB bother if that’s the case? JJB will believe they can retail at virtually no marginal cost, saving the cost to Rangers of 200 people + outlets – that’s £2m p.a. ‘scale benefit’ to JJB that was never available to Rangers. In addition this deal will increase JJB’s buying power/reduce their cost of sales. JJB will also believe that they can further exploit the product portfolio.
In addition to sponsorship Umbro has secured the distribution rights to all replica kits and
training products internationally.
Based on the above the deal is far from poor. I would be delighted if someone could point out my error.
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gerry
My point is...the money merchandising is not a fixed entity, £48 million is.
Murray can get at the 7,8,9 million figures per annum being bandied about tonight through other means, be it season tickets, catering, etc and there is nothing JJB sports can do about it apart from cry foul and will Celtic fans have any sympathy for JJB.
They'll be too busy bhoycotting, whereas Rangers fans won't be worried either. It seems to me a very ill-thought out idea by JJB.
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why the hell hasnt the media picked up on the official UEFA investigation into.."(rangers)fans discriminatory chants".I find this quite sensational news given our very own authorities acceptance of this bile for over a hundred years.
Lets hope UEFA have the guts to throw the book at them
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Cubist Frank
Is your conclusion that it is a good deal for Umbro and JJB or Rangers or all three?
Not being obtuse here. Maybe a little slow.
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Just saw on UEFA website that Sparta Prague were ordered to play their next European home match behind closed doors following racist chants of their fans.
Looks like the Rangers fans won't be seeing any European footie for a wee while longer.
You jst can't take them anywhere!!
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pggtips-
I understood that every penny from rangers season tickets for the foreseeable future goes to service the interest on the debt to HBOS.
noel.
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SanFran_Tic,
Spot on. JJB are not subsidising Rangers, nor are they giving them a "gift" of £48m, nor are they sponsoring them. A business transaction has been done between them and JJB will actually make money from Rangers, not give it to them.
We should be applauding JJB for taking advantage of the Huns' perilous finances and Murray's massive ego to make a killing off them.
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Paul,
I cant come back with fact or documentary proof, but i just cant believe rangers made £20.5 million last year from retail - was that pure profit or just turnover. Not only that but to sell it for an average of £4.8M min over a 10 year period - You are doing Murray a dis-service here. I cannot see rangers retail earn any more than £7M-£8M profit at absolute tops.
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pggtips 8.29,
Do you think the Huns can raise the price of season-tickets (which they struggle to sell as it is), and pies and bovril enough to make up the 7/8/9million they are throwing away?
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Can I modestly claim a world exclusive for CQN?
A few weeks ago, on this very site, I predicted today's news from TFOD. We even got the sum on the nose - £18m.
The Scottish press missed it, though Terry Murden in Scotland on Sunday eventually ran it as an exclusive...two weeks after you read it here first.
That's why it's called Celtic QUICK News.
Now as for the deal, it's all smoke and mirrors as usual.
I spoke with a director of one of the two clubs who have already embraced this 'innovative' deal and he said there wasn't a cat in hells chance of TFOD getting anywhere near £18m.
I'll get back to you all when I've got the facts, er..isn't that what our friends in the fourth estate should be doing ??
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Kojo -ATTENTION-
Do you have a Doppelganger? There was a KoJo posting last night on the previous thread. Is KoJo = Kojo? I thought the nomenclature of the user mane was static once created.
Maybe nothing, maybe the system burped. However in case it is something else I wanted you to know that potentially the second coming was upon us. KoJo son of Kojo was in the Land of Celtica.
Let me know if you posted last night at 9.10 GMT and that the Appellation was configured form the norm with a capital J was you. If so we can move on. Otherwise you have an admirer. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
Like I said maybe nothing. KoJo did have a typo….not something I see much from Kojo
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Paul at 7.43, I don't often disagree but unless I misunderstand your point then I really don't think you are comparing like with like here. The £205M (or whatever) over 10 years is the revenue from merchandise. The money from JJB (£48M minimum if we believe the headline figures) - apart from administrative costs - will be pure profit (and cash!).
I agree the deal overall probably costs them money but it isn't on the scale you imply. If sales rocket then he makes more money and if they fall then, assuming JJB stay in business, his "profit" is guaranteed.
From Murray's perspective it's a simple business decision - no different in principle from the owner of a business choosing to factor their debts. Yes Murray has opted for a cheese sandwich today rather than a jam one tomorrow (bad analogy - I prefer cheese) but the one thing he does have is a degree of planning certainty in an uncertain world.
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Forget about JJB laughed my tights off when I heard on radio this morning how many world class french players pgtips will bring with him.
Forget about players coming 300 zillion pounds (depending on which rag you looked at)in selling their rubbish sorry mean strips. Forget the fact that 250 employees are worried about their jobs tonight..(well Murray and the press have)
Why did he wait until today to announce it...? To take the heat off the fact their fans cannot be trusted abroad?
Murray and his spin doctors at their best!
Paul67 - I agree with your domination theory! Even more so now!
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Can anyone answer:
a) who sells more strips- us or them?
b) as far as recent published accounts tell us, who brings in the most revenue from these sales?
As for Murray being the consumate showman, how hard is it to do this when you have the most fawning, obsequious "press" anywhere?
Imagine a chairman in England after all these "Revolutions" and "Innovations", receiving that kind of blind, servile reporting? He would be hunted and hounded.
Also, both the BBC and Scottish news have soft-soaped the huns behaviour in Spain. Luckily, we can read the Guardian and rthe Independent amongst others for tales of overturned cars and arrests.
Those Spanish policemen eh? 80k of us in Seville and these psychopaths in uniform could not find anyone to batton charge!
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Rubicon-
I think between yourself and Insider-
you had the deal tied up a fortnight ago.
Hail ! The new CQN Oracles.
If I had went into the same shop a year ago and clocked those headlines-
I would have.......er...... been a bit worried... a BIG BIT worried...
Thanks.
noel.
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8:30 PM, SanFran_Tic – I am hoping I am being a little slow! Based on my numbers it’s a good deal for Rangers, good/very good for JJB depending on their ability to exploit the opportunities. No idea about Umbro – perhaps less positive due to the impact of a further increase in JJB’s buying power. Still hoping I have seriously misunderstood.
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UEFA is currently hacked off at the Spanish FA's handling of the racist chanting toward Eto. As I understand, European bigwigs were not happy at the paltry fine they was dished out to the offending club - which incidentally was ten times higher than the previous SpFA fine for this offence. UEFA has been taking an increasingly tougher approach on the racism issue (witness Sparta Prague). The bottom line here is that Rangers have walked straight into a hornet's nest and I suspect that they will be hammered by UEFA.
I don't think UEFA will be too enamored by Rangers' attempts to put their own spin on the security issues of the other evening - Mr. McKintyre's point about poor security may have been valid but running it through the national press is not the way to get UEFA on your side. In fact, I'd be surprised if UEFA don't view this behaviour as being exceptionally rude, particularly given that it is clear which fans were responsible for the disturbances.
By the way, would anyone like to bring the racist chanting of Rangers' club officials in Milan to the attention of UEFA? I'm sure the UEFA officials would be interested to ascertain what action has been taken by the club to root out the offenders. That incident clearly demonstrates the endemic nature of the problem at Dignity FC.
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Assuming its only £7million they make as profit from merchandising (I think is pre-tax profit), they only have to make £2.2million pre-tax annually as they have the £48 million guaranteed.
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Is anyone else hugely sceptical over the PLG deal?
I can't help thinking (maybe more out of hope) that PLG is playing Rangers along just now.
Going to announce the decision next week but is he banding round his offer from Ibrox to force the hand of others?
Sceptical??
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db,
They have a larger retail turnover. They also have a better matchday package for corporate and fat cat hospitality. Much better standard of service. The huns are a well oiled outfit with top bananas at each stage. But let me say this - the tide is turning. Brian Quinn, Peter Lawell and Eric Riley are very, very good at what they do and they have installed a system and implementing change that is paying off - The huns have been a business for a number of years now - we only started catching up when wee Fergus came to town, the gap is now closing, we keep our affairs private and Murray thrives on the adulation from the Scottish media - thats his downfall cause he will fall on his sword - he's only sharpening that sword just now. Our Nike deal kicked us into a world brand and we will reap the rewards, of that I am 100% certain. This JJB thing is "small potatoes" he is skint and had to sell up the retail because he cant support them financially anymore. The media are kissing his rear end over this but they thought it was going to be bigger than this thats why they keep talking about £48M (its over 10 years for god sake). Somethings niggling me about this though - no-one is mentioning the £16.5M they made from the CL. Why not?
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The Godfather-
I think its pretty obvious there is a
HUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE vacancy coming up at Real Madrid........
Then again-maybe it,s too big for him.........
noel.
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Seltik2, thanks for that link, I’ll use it.
Parkheadcomesalford, let me explain:
This is not new money, they are getting a bundle of cash now, very like a loan, and forgoing an income for the next ten years, very like interest on a loan.
The difference is:
A loan comes from your bank at a rate of interest.
JJB also need to fund their borrowings at a similar rate of interest, they will need this to be covered from the Rangers deal.
They will need extra to cover their commercial risk.
They will need extra again to cover their Return on Investment (profit).
Every way I look at this it is a very bad deal.
Keep the Faith are correctly reporting that Celtic expect to earn £100m from retail over the next 10 years – this is not an idle guess from them. Celtic believe they will be an average of £5m per year better off than Rangers for a decade before a ball is kicked.
Tooheys new, for your penance, three Hail Marys.
If the radio pundit does not think Rangers can make £3m from a £20.5m turnover he is whistling in the wind.
Burnley78, agree, they might be as well off with Billy Davis.
SanFran Tic, excellent comment. If we boycott JJB we perpetuate the ‘Old Firm’ co-dependency. Treat them no different from any retailer – and buy your Celtic kit direct.
Cubist Frank, couple of points on your observations:
Rangers issued the potential figure they could earn from Umbro “up to” as the BBC said. The actual figure will be much less, and the figure from last season will be less again.
Expect retail sales net of Umbro to provide £6m margin as a lower estimate.
St Gris, Rangers accounts (download from Companies House), state they turned over £20.5m from retail operations last year, another large Scottish club tells me they operate at 33% here.
Contrats Rubicon, you were on the money.
Scotcelt56, I was being facetious with the £205m figure illustrating how the media used a 90 million figure.
Cheers Minx.
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It's unfortunate that all we have to discuss at the moment is Der Hun but it is quiet at the moment on the Celtic front.
An interesting few days but for me the biggest story is the UEFA investigation into their fans behaviour on Tuesday night,especially the reference to the "discriminatory singing" over the two legs.
It was mentioned before the first leg that UEFA were keeping an eye on this,their problems are only compounded by the hooligan element making the headlines.Will UEFA make an example of them?
As for their "new" investment,I saw the Evening Times headlines and had to find out more.We can argue about figures and whether the deal is good or not,but what I believe is not in doubt is that Rangers are giving up long-term profits for short-term cash.
As only £18 million is guaranteed up front and some of this may be required to pay down some of the debt,how many top-class players will the remainder buy? That's before we even talk about how Rangers would fund any increase in salaries in their current wage bill.
I don't know or care who their next manager will be,what I do know is that the guy who gets the nod is going to have one hell of a job on his hands to build a strong side.Lots of deadwood,no real youth and after the first season,virtually no cash to improve the squad.
We all know the problems we had at the start of the season with similar issues and some of our own supporters have claimed we have only turned it around due to Rangers being so poor.Well,if that is the case,what happens when the new incumbent at Ibrox faces the same problems with a strong Celtic?
An interesting summer lies ahead.
BankieBhoy
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If the JJB deal is so good why is it only Wigan, Everton and them that have seen the light, or should that be 'moonbeam'?
As for the UEFA statement about discriminate chanting, this is VERY interesting. They would mean that they are actually aware of what is being sung.
If UEFA make a statement which highlights the offensive wording then ranjurs and the Scottish media will have a job trying to cover it up as is the norm.
Here's hoping UEFA don't let us down and do a thorough investigation.
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My dear friend, Tim a Loy,
Just got back.
Yes...... Inflation......
Reminds me of a very famous anecdote, concerning the WILY, Nathan de Rothschild.......
In 1801, He and a friend were discussing the effect of inflation,which had reared its ugly head,having been caused by the monetary policies of the newly installed French Government.
"Now in my hand I have a 100 franc note. Tell me Nathan. What steps should I take in order for it to retain its buying Power,before I die?
"That can be easily taken care of,mon ami.Open the left hand drawer of my desk" answered Nathan.
On opening the drawer,his friend was astonished to find it empty.... except for a loaded firearm.
"Pick up that gun..... place it against your forehead....and PULL THE TRIGGER!" instructed Nathan solemnly.
Yes,pal......ya got it right.....
Monetary Inflation is a fact of life.
What you have posited in your submission is 100 per centum factual.
Hail! Hail!
Hibernian 0 Celtic 28
Kojo.
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FBICFC @8.08 GAVIL GUY@80.9
Regarding your fishy comments on Mr Murray.Is he perhaps morphing into The Great Blue Meenie in the Sea of Holes(Yellow Submarine) who in his greed swallowed humself?
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Hello Bhoys.
Am lovin this da da da da da!
Hbos are in a win win situ!
Watch though. DM has another nugget up his sleeve.
You didn't think this was all,did you?More to follow,although my slant is that more twists and turns than a helter skelter to come.
Put yourself in HBOS'S place.
Reduced debt,long term promises,sales minimums,oh didn't think i mentioned that.
Happy days are here again !
Fear not!
JonG
More family silver is my word on the street!
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Off-topic and influenced by last thread. Has the following been considered?
Champions League adopts the Olympian(medal) protocal:
Winner gold
Finalist silver
Semi-finalist bronze
Qualification to the Champions League (in no particular order):
To win it (a la Celtic)
To win one's league
To hold a gold, silver or bronze Champions league medal.
Result:
Larger/smaller CL (Celtic etc)
Smaller/larger EUAFA Cup (JJBers etc).
It sounds simple but is complex!
Think about it! Seriously!
Hail! Hail!
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I bet Murray was absolutely seething with UEFA when they announced this investigation - how dare they interrupt his "big reveal". How ironic will it be when Murray unveils Le Guen (100% certain) as the new manager that UEFA will follow that up with a one game closed doors punishment for their fans behaviour. Could this investigation delay Le Guens decision. If he is not unveiled by 17th March - you bet it will have. It'll be interesting to note the Sun and Records take on todays UEFA announcement. Oh and before i forget Mr L McIntyre, shame on you for not decrying the fans who broke the coach window or rocked the coach from side to side. I would have thought a man in your position would have had more dignity.
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Great point bt San Fran tic earlier.
SanFran_Tic
No need to boycott, Rangers are doomed anyway.
Off topic, an excellent article on e-tims by Lachiemor. Interesting read.
The Language of Paradise
Lubo.
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My dear friend, San_Fran_Tic,
I have no knowledge of that insertion which purportedly, was penned by my hand.
The SOBRIQUET is Spurious.
That is why the Perpetrator of the HOAX, had to Capitalize the J.
I am surprised that you had had( mmm) harboured ( plus alliteration!) any doubts as to it's Unauthenticity.
Hail! Hail!
Hibernian 0 Celtic 29
Kojo.
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"Rangers last night praised their fans as they wait to hear if they will be fined for the attack on Villarreal's team bus" it says in todays Daily Revisionist.
Goes on to say "Most of the criticism will be aimed at the Spanish club for Tuesdays shambolic stewarding and ticketing arrangements..." Twas ever thus.
Ibrox security chief Laurence McIntyre saluted the support for their behaviour in the face of provocation."
Alas we are not enlightened as to the agent provocateurs but suspect they're not white Anglo-Saxon types.
Of the Villarreal bus being attacked he added, "One window was smashed. Actually it didn't break into the vehicle, the glass was fractured and frosted over and it wasn't as if the players were hit by breaking glass."
That's OK then Laurence, thank gooodness for that.
"That's not condoning what happened. The truth is we don't know for sure it was a Rangers fan who did it. Could it have been a policeman on a horse swinging a baton? Horses were in that street and officers had long batons out. We don't know."
He's been seriously serious there folks.
Previously the Villarreal manager Pellegrini flatly contradicted the above madmans havverings, though it must be said he had only directly witnessed the incident, being only a mere passenger on said bus. As had the entire Villarreal team and support staff, but no matter.
Maybe Laurence you should have asked them to salve your insatiable curiosity about who did what and when to who before you put your foot right in the horses mouth. I'll pass the long baton back to you now you eejit.
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Sorry for my lazieness again but could someone please enlighten me to the french guys european record.I hink he has won 3 french titles but how has he done in europe
Joewhoiitistoolateatnighttotoresearchasheiswatchingfitbasburds
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Serituku-
It matters not a jot.
UEFA are onto them.......
at last......
noel.
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Lubo,
San Fran tic (I CQNer I respect much) has got it penalty spot on!
Ditch the Old Firm.
I know the saying, "any publicity is good publicity."
However, Celtic is a positive Brand, and "that mob" are holding us back!
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I bet Murray didn't bank on his big announcement being:
"UEFA wisen up to Ibrox neo-Nazi tendency"
UEFA MUST follow through on this. Not a piddly wee fine like the Spaniards dole out, but a year's ban or at least a game or two behind closed doors.
Murray must be crossing his fingers that M LeGuen (brother of a priest let us not forget) doesn't ask exactly what the Huns' were chanting...
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Supercelt:
I have just read some of your insertions over the past few days.
You my son see things as others would see them,and you also offer a singular mind on this blog when all seems to be heading down the "CRAW ROAD".
Please keep offering your particular insight into Celtic affairs of the day, as you see them.
JonG
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Just a wee thought,
Over recent months and years, we have heard the "expert pundits" on radio snyde criticising Murky for borrowing money and giving it to a foreign manager to blow on imports. Mees think that we could be seeing history repeat itself, long term problems caused by looking for short term results. One big difference though, last time round we were not ready for the challenge, this time we are a stable club, nucleus of a good team and have a manager who is doing this business. ok, clyde and artmedia were disasters but only 2 league defeats and one of them after a dodgy sending off.
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pggtips 6:31
You say that in 5 years time Murray will have £33M for HBOS and that is why it is a smart deal. I would just like to remind you that Murray claimed that Rankers were making £7M a year when we signed the Nike deal, which is £35M in 5 years. He will however be able to save money on silver polish! No trophies and no family silver.
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JonG
I think you previously said that Murray was lining up large investment.Are you becoming less concerned by what this may be?
Surely the only family silver left to flog is the stadium.I'm pretty certain that Murray stated a few years ago when this was mooted in the media that this would never happen.
BankieBhoy
BankieBhoy
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Cheers jonG.
I think. :))
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PAUL Mc STAY ! ! !
g,dnite.
noel.
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Paul et al,
Whatever angle our various contributors are viewing this deal from tonight, the conclusion is that this deal is either leaving Rangers worse off in the long run or leaving them marginally better off in the long run, depending on figures used and assuptions made.
There is ONE THING VERY CLEAR:-
This is not an announcement to ROCK SCOTTISH FOOTBALL.
The only sensational thing about this announcement is the way the puppet media have reported it.
As a consequence of today's relationship announcement I will choose not to shop at JJoBy sports because, as a customer, I have a choice. And I choose not to spend my hard earned cash in a partner of a club who promote bigotry in our society. Others are free to make their own choices on this one.
I remain sceptical about PLG.
u2whoisnotrockedbytodaysannouncementatall.
