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?
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Paul
Whi is Zsa Zsa?
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Podium?
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Och well... 3rd will do I suppose!
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This will be a very important point for Celtic.
The political song debate already splits the support (including those who contribute to this blog) pretty equally. Even if those who believe the rebel songs to be suitable are right (and personally I do not), it is surely in Celtic's interest that they are not heard over the next few weeks and tomorrow in particular.
PS Could have been first, but thought I'd try and contribute to the discussion instead
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Paul67 ............ If the SFA will listen out for songs the Celtic fans sing .........then they will have to listen out for songs ......Hearts, Hibs, Motherwell, Killi and the likes.
Are you saying IF the SFA hear a rebel song at Hibs tomorrow they will pas this on to UEFA?
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The SFA will try to bring us into this - there's no doubt about it. All the media reports are already mentioning "Old Firm sectarianism". I hate the Old Firm tag... we should start a campaign against it.
To Ranger's credit, if you can call it that, I think some of the other clubs in Scotland are just as bad if not worse regarding sectarianism and racism i.e. Hearts and Kilmarnock.
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gerry - from what I understand the various organisations will police their own tournaments. UEFA will investigate European games and the SPL/SFA will look at domestic issues.
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Not had a chance to check through last nights posts, but this is well worth a listen.
Speirs in top form.
Peat
Apologies if it had already been posted.
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Bryce Curdy .........thanks for that.
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Big up to Plato on getting The Golden Lantern.....
noel.
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Very good point, Paul.
Everything in the power of the establishment (in all its forms) will be done to shift the focus of this shame from solely Rangers, to the Old firm.
We all know of Rangers fans and how blind they can be to their own specific faults, so quickly to brand us all 'as bad as each other'. This could well be a big chance to further distance ourselves from the institutionally predjudice RFC.
A conserted effort must be made by us all to achieve this.
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I would like to see the club list the songs they believe are unacceptable.
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Bryce
Another problem are the "add-ons", specifically on FoA.
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Someone should save the 90 Minutes show and send it to UEFA - let them see how bad it really is!
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Bryce Curdy,
This could be a difficult move without tarring ourselves with the same brush as Rangers.
As much as it would be seen by some as a good proactive step, you can easily see the headlines - 'CELTIC PLEA TO END FANS' DISGRACE'
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I must admit that the singing of Rebel songs has decreased a large amount through the years.
I've been going to CP coming on 25 years now and when I first started going they where sung none stop and now you hardly hear them sung (apart from Rangers and some away games)
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In pursuing Rangers for sectarian singing, UEFA have set Scottish football, maybe even Gerry, the SFA do not need to pass any domestic issue onto UEFA, they are judge and jury for any Scottish game, and yes, I believe we will come under scrutiny when other clubs will not.
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Chick Young's doing his upmost to defend Rangers for their songs.
'By definition, it could be argued that these songs are not actually offensive'
The media is quite painful at times in this country.
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Our "problem" lies with the away support, where "political" songs are common, as it greater hostility to all things protestant.
I have been to three away games this year and in every one I was embarrassed by some of the nonsense that Celtic fans were singing/shouting.
"Political" seems to have become some kind of exonerating tag- as if a song that is political cannot, by definition be offensive. Personally, I get quite offended by neds glorifying the IRA.
Of course we are not as bad as Them (who are in complete denial if the wonderful David Edgar is anything to go by), but let's not pretend we have nothing to worry about...
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just wait for the uneducated to accuse the singing of the "fields of Athenry" as sectarian, as sad as it is predictable.
Celtic fans have the chance to show rangers how to create a "fantastic atmosphere (copyright jock brown) without the need for rebel songs.
Maybe when uefa are looking into this they could question the sectarian booing of irish catholic celtic players at every away game in scotland together with "f off to ireland" chants.
Heard the first rebel song at celtic park for years at the aberdeen game - "flower of Scotland"!
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Just listening to Radio Scotland:
"What about Celtic?"
"Terrorist organisations"
"Just as bad"
"UEFA will be looking into them next"
How long did it take to drag us into this?
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mgm
see my earlier comment: the argument is lost by the insertion of Sinn Fein and IRA in the song.
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It's all kicking off on Sportsound now. Come on, which one of you called Gordon Smith an Orange b?
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Gordon Smith is what he is.
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You could hear the determination on Radio Scotland to involve Celtic in this argument.
The blame on Rangers is already being dilluted.
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Celtic need to be proactive about this, or we will inevitably get dragged in, partly through a biased and lazy media and partly because we are not without fault.
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no doupt the media and the sfa will say they are tackling this issue and that the problem is with a small section of the tfod orcs, as wee all heard their were no fans allowed in the san siro apart from a handful off v.i.p.s and club sponsers and all u heard were sectarian songs up 2 our knees in ?
enouth said eh?
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Paul- not long-
gordon smith and chick[spit]young just did.
Fair play to Richard Gordon for reminding them it IS rangers that UEFA is investigating.
noel.
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Re that last topic.
Why not offer no points for a draw?
3 points for a win and 0 for a draw and 0 for a defeat.
That way a tied game offers no benefit to either team and a team will play the latter part of the game as if they are losing. Therefore attacking against another team who will also attack therefore more exciting games or at least more exciting ends to games.
No major drawbacks and the game improved.
Imagine Motherwell coming to Celtic Park knowing a draw gets them no points. They will have to come out even if it is well into the second half.
Regarding our songs then put our trust in UEFA. F the Pope is going to be their downfall and if the SFA try and make it ones as bad as the other then it could be the SFA's downfall.
Tonybhoy
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If we sing any rebel songs 2moro, you can bet the wall of silence from the Daily Record on TFOD sectarian shame will end and will suddenly become an old firm issue!
At least the Herald had the balls to publish Scotland's secret shame!
Forget boycotting JJB, don't buy the Record as it panders to Murray and his bigots!
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No doubt all the blame will be put on the doorstep of separate schooling.
One song or incident tomorrow will mean banner headlines and parity will be restored in their eyes.
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"What about Celtic?"= Let's spread the blame
"You can't blame the current Rangers management"=It's all in the past
"It's a societal problem"= See it's not our fault
"Let's talk about football"=Let's ignore it and hope it goes away AGAIN
Apologists
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I have to say that I find songs glorifying cowardly murduring terrorists to be every bit as offensive as anything I've heard at Ibrox.
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Richie the argument is only lost to those who insert that, I agree though we sink to their level when those add that bit in.
In fairness though the song is sung at parkhead (when the punters actually find their voices) by and large without the add in, just at away games its hijacked.
Your correct though, that doesnt make it right.
I was just pointing out that there are a number of songs sung by celtic fans that other supporters wrongly accuse of being sectarian.
Maybe fields a bad example due to the add ins. Maybe this is a better example - "Let the people Sing" - a fantastic song and nothing better at away games when this is sung.
I once had a debate with a rangers fan trying to accuse this song of being bigoted. I emailed him the full lyrics and asked him to point out the bigoted parts. However, had he phoned a radio phone in it would have been accepted as bigoted and we'd get put back under the "old firm" umbrella.
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Battlefield
Never mind distancing ourselves from Rangers. Let's distance ourselves from the bigoted Celtic fans.
Celtic fans singing the same type of hatred as the bigots at Ibrox and other Scottish grounds.
"So they'll be no protestants at all "
"Sad orange b******"
F*** King Billy and John Knox
Oh it's good to be Roman Catholic"
Why have you ever heard the press or media touch on these sectarian songs from Celtic fans?
Let's not just hope Celtic fans don't sing these songs at Easter Road. Tomorrow any Celtic fans hearing these songs should be shouting down such singing and then ask the stewards and police to kick them out the ground!
No bigots among Celtic fans!
Take action against them and let UEFA take action against Rangers.
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Bryce Curdy@ 2:45
Does that include the Irish National Anthem?
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bryce
YOU HAVN'T GOT A CLUE.
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mcgubligan - I confess to not knowing the words of the Irish national anthem. If it glorifies the IRA the answer is yes. I have no issue at all if it is simply republican.
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waller1888 - care to back up your statement?
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BRYCE-
drop it it.
I don,t thnk CQN is the place to initiate a discussion on the fight for
Irish FREEDOM or the latter troubles in the north of Ireland.
noel.
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listening to Radio Scotland
as some of the lads said
desperately trying to tie us into this
ive sent 5 e mails to them all complaining about the flutes in the background
NO RESPONSE OR AIRTIME
RFC are definitely trying to do something about bigotry
PROMOTE IT - IT SELLS JERSEYS
although after this summer that wont matter either
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bryce
see noel90 2.53
YOU HAVN'T GOT A CLUE
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The Irish National Anthem?
Which one would that be?
I've only ever heard the received version of the National Anthem on one occasion and that before the Jackie McNamarra testimonial (talk about using nationalism to coin/con in some money). Sung in the Gaelic beautifully by Patricia Fearns.
There is a lack of respect shown to the Irish National Anthem by some Celtic fans; it must must offend those true Irish patriots.
Some preface the song with a call Irish people to indulge in sectarian cleansing to Irish people of protestant background. That is an offensive use of the Irish national anthem.
Others add on to the Irish Republic's national anthem the phrase " God bless the Pope" I think that can be regarded as sectarian.
Are we serious about tackling the bigots among Celtic fans?
Seems like the answer among some Celtic fans is no!
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I have to admit to listening to Radio Scotland and I found it was going well until the chap Smith came in with his 'I was brought up non denomenational' statement as a precursor to a vitriolic attempt to drag Celtic into the debate.....was it me or did I detect real venom in his tone ?
Sadly just as it seems very challenging to get Celtic consumers to sing at home games, it is equally hard to get some of the less informed variety to stop singing certain words and songs at the away matches.....no matter how much we protest here tomorrow will be no different.
90 mins of let the people sing would be interesting at the home of Ireland's first football club in Scotland. That would set up the debate.
I would not phone in or text these shows but if anyone does feel the urge could they remind this lot that on the matter of ' Madrigal not being fit to host a bit match' that they do vs Barca / Madrid etc each season and the did host 10,000 Celtic fans and now enjoy a great reciprocal friendship. Perhaps it is the nature of the visitors after all ?
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Listen ghuys, can we all just keep the baw on the ground ?????????
Some things are more important.... like THIS GHUY.
We are all on the same side. Let's remember what it means to be a Celtic player and a fhan !!!!!!!!!!
pablophanque
No.1 This day in History
Magic Moments - Perry Como. 1959
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Bryce
The point I was trying to make - badly I'll admit after a re-read - was that you appeared to be falling into the media inspired "they sing about Ireland and are, therefore bigoted/sectarian". It's just one of their tactics in defence of indefensible hun, so we end up with every Irish song we sing is bad and any celebration of our heritage is equally bad.
Not aimed at you but I'm getting a wee bit fed up with fellow Celtic fans having a go at fans who feel an affinity to Ireland. An expression I once heard about Celtic always rings a bell with me - They are the team of the Irish in Scotland. Not exclusively, obviously, but that is certainly a facet of our club and support that seems to be being attacked by our own support.
Rant over.
mcgubligan
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Paul
The discussion on Radio Scotland has just backed up your article. Whatever it takes the media in this country will drag us in to this.
Interestingly the representative of the Rangers Trust on 90 minutes last night refused to condemn the phrase "dirty Fenian b" on the grounds that the Oxford English Dictionary defined Fenian as a political movement.
Nice try mate but the Oxford English Dictionary also defines it as an offensive name for a Catholic especially in Northern Ireland.
Oxford online dictionary
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waller - in what way is noel claiming I haven't got a clue?
I realise this is a difficult area that divides Celtic fans. I am quite prepared to drop it provided you also stop your personal abuse which you fail to back up with any arguement.
Noel - you maybe right, but with yesterday's developments I feel that Celtic as a club will need to think carefully about its stance on rebel songs. As Paul has said, they will almost certainly come under intense scrutiny, rightly or wrongly.
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Having listened to the SFA guy on the BBC radio program, I don't see that much is set to change here. He doesn't want to take action against Rangers (or Celtic) - he'd rather sidestep this issue and say "we're aiming to educate. In fact, we want to take no action and for the fans to self-police".
I thought that was pathetic. They have it in their power to pressure the fans and the clubs to produce more positive behaviour. Sadly, it's been left to UEFA to do so.
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mcgubligan - I suspect we are broadly in agreement. I am Scottish and have no strong views either way about Irish republicanism. I am perfectly happy for our club and fans to recognise their Irish heritage, and agree with you that there are some who will try and portray the Irish flag as a sectarian symbol.
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Historyreader
Why is saying God Bless the Pope sectarian? It may annoy/anger some of the Rangers support but that is only because of their hatred.
I'm not sticking up for the singing of the Irish National Anthem (although I don't think there is anything wrong with it) - I have spoken to Irish people who say it is offensive to them if not sung in Gaelic - I don't know why it is offensive but thought it was an interesting point.
We certainly do have a problem with a sectarian element. However, if we do have anything on the same level as "up to our knees in fenian blood" it is rarely heard at any audible level at Parkhead and when it is heard it is truelly by a minority unlike the hoards at Ibrox.
Saying this, it's not enough to accept saying we're better than them - we should continue to eradicate it - paying special attention to away grounds.
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Historyreader
Please see my response to Bryce, that's the kind of attack on Celtic fans I mean.
I totally agree that the corruption of the song is a disgrace and should be cut out by all Celtic fans. However, I think lecturing other fans and calling them bigots is unhelpful at best and gives an easy way out for the apologists at worst.
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Martinobhoy
Good shout as Chick Young tried to rehearse that point this afternoon.
Paul
CQN has not always readily sought to challenge Celtic supporters' bigotry.
It's time this blog began to not just echo the voice of some its contributors and begin to campaign against the bigots among the Celtic support.
Just as Fergus McCann stepped up the quality of our response to bigotry through the Social Charter launched over 10 years ago, we now must be willing to take the next steps against the bigots among Celtic fans.
CQN should link directly to the Celtic Social Charter and should also link to anti-racist organisations like Kick It Out, FARE and Show Racism the Red Card.
CQN should be active among supporters groups to take forward such messages.
Just as an aisde, given the evenst this week and the response from Celtic. I notice that there is a new link on the Celtic website which begins "I want..."
I want to find out what Celtic are doing to challenge racism and sectarianism, sadly there is no such link there.
Are we really proud to be anti-bigots?
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On the Fields of Athenry debate, let me first say that I do not add in the words Sinn Féin or IRA when I sing it and would prefer if others would do the same.
However, chanting the name of a politcal party is NOT sectarian. Sinn Féin has representatives elected to the European Parliament, Dáil Éireann, the House of Commons (where they don't take their seats), the Stormont assembly and councils all over Ireland. Whether you agree with its politics is neither here nor there, it is not sectarian to chant that party's name. Political yes, sectarian no.
Don't allow red herrings to deflect us from the substance of what UEFA is investigating – anti-Catholicism spewing out of the mouths of Rangers fans.
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Fact of the matter is that Rangers' problem with UEFA is their problem and theirs alone.
It's worth noting as well that Rangers are being investigated for chanting which was anti-Catholic.
Pure bigotry in other words.
I also believe, someone can correct me, that one of the UEFA delegates was Greek, someone in other words from a totally different country and culture, yet someone still able to pick up on what was being chanted. I think it's fair to say then that we're not dealing with subtleties here, but with something that's quite blatant.
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Bryce-
no offence intended-
sometimes these discussions get taken the wrong way
and I think the situation re- rangers is where the focus is at the moment.
Anyway here is Jimmy Johnstone Superstar coutesy of Wee Drew.
noel.
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burtman - you're absolutely correct, but you're arguement doesn't apply to IRA chants. They are not a political party.
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None taken noel. I do think a debate somewhere about this whole subject is now inevitable, and it would be better if Celtic set the agenda in a proactive manner.
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Any Celtic fan singing "soon there'll be no protestants at all " is a bigot pure and simple. Let's not just pretend that it is only disgraceful, it's worse than that.
I've found that is always helpful to challenge racism and bigotry.
Are you willing to challenge the bigots wearing Celtic colours?
I am not going to apologise for being anti-bigotry whether it's a bigot wearing a celtic scarf or a Rangers bigot at Ibrox.
Part of the solution ... or part of the problem?
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As a protestant raised Celtic supporter I don't have a problem with "roamin' in the gloamin'" I've certainly never felt threatened by it or found it supremacist. I don't have any time for King Billy or John Knox and my guess is it probably is great to be a Roman Catholic. It's great to be a Hare Krishna too by the look of them. You don't have to be Catholic to feel affronted by the Rangers support, home or away. I haven't had any trouble from Celtic fans as a result of my long abandoned religion but I've been kicked and insulted by Rangers fans in full view of the police, which as a tax payer I find doubly galling. As far as the rebel songs go I would be sad to see them go. The first record my parents bought was after they got married was "Irish Rebel Songs" by the Freedom fighters - great songs that lit up my childhood, probably the same songs Liam Clancy taught that well known bigot Bob Dylan to play when he first arrived in New York. I do have problems with the add ons to "The Fields" and "Willie Maley" but mainly because they're so stupid. The birds were NOT on the provisional wing, and Willie Maley DIDN'T give us the IRA. I also have problems with changing "James" to "Paul" in that song, but that's another story.
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Hi all
Just a quick football diversion
Under 19s today at Barrowfield
Celtic 2 Hibs 0
Smashing game - Baltic weather
Hail hail
Estadio
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1-0 Rangers (Boyd), 0-0 Hearts
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Historyreader@3:21
Agree 100%
Agree 100%
Yes I am willing to do so but don't think I have the right to demand the same from others.
Nor should you
I'm sorry but that's the sort of trite nonsense that simplifies the debate to the level of the playground.
No one is arguing that we should ensure that our club is anti-racist and anti-sectarian ie open to all as we always have been. My issue is when one faction of the support feel that they are able to attack another. For example I felt that after the Mark Walters incident that humilated us all, we the support eradicated racism on that scale (although I concede not entirely) from Celtic Park. I think we can do the same again I just don't agree that attacking people is the way to do it.
You obviously feel that confrontation is the way forward, I don't. Agree to disagree.
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Putting the sectarian debate behind us what is the SFA going to do about the constant booing of Lennon, Keane and McGeady. The only reason they get booed at EVERY ground in Scotland is because they are Irish, or in McGeady's case chosen to play for the Republic. The SFA are doing SFA about this yeat it is clearly racist. What about dropping a line to UEFA on this?
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The only problem with tomorrow is that because it is an away game Celtic have limited control over the support, I hope we encourage the stewards & police to eject anyone singing dodgy stuff.
Celtic have done much over the past 10 years to eradicate the problem from parkhead and have been very successful, maybe too successful considering the atmosphere at times. A list of recommended songs in the match program may help a lot of the support know what songs are acceptable.
I would think that if any of the away support tomorrow are stupid enough to sing any dodgy songs then Celtic must find them and if they are season ticket holders immediately tear up their season book and if they have come from a supporters bus then ban the entire supporters club from receiving tickets.
Celtic must protect the goodwill that has been built up all over europe by the support, strong arm tactics to deal with this problem must be deployed to prevent us from being dragged into the myre with the others.
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Noel90
Thanks for that - the goal against Man Utd was the only one I was privileged to see the wee man score in person and so it brought a huge smile to my face!!!
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i was going to put a bet on the press asking strachan about tfod's big money windfall. wish i'd done it!!
they're so predictable and that's why GS has them sussed.
i'm sure the next question he gets asked is about the bigotry from fans.
i hope he answers it in the way the question deserves.
Emjay
ps...PLEASE DON'T LISTEN TO THESE SO CALLED JOURNALISTS ON THE RADIO.
YOU'RE JUST ENCOURAGING THEM!
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The majority of rebel singers at Celtic games are not bigots, and probably ignorant as to what it means to be a Republican as well. They just want to express their Irish identity. I think they don't realise that Republicans do not have a monopoly on Irishness and they also think it sounds a bit hard to be singing about the IRA.
I have no problem with the songs, Ive sang them myself, but I just wish we as a club could divorce Republicanism from Irishness. Go and find another platform to express your support for Sinn Fein and/or the IRA. Leave Celtic to the Celts!
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Paul67 and the rest...(Im new to posting but gr8 site..too addictive)
I listened to the Radio Scotland debate. I, in fact, totally understand G Smiths point. Rangers are not the only club with a set of fans who sing derogatory chants. He never “dragged” Celtic in to it. He used us and Hearts as an example. Let’s not wear blinkers in this debate. I indeed could be offended when Hearts fans shout at me to go home to my “Glasgow Slum”. I equally could also be offended when Rangers sing ftp or “fenian” whatever. The point is, I’m not. As Gordon Smith said, it’s the people who sing these things that are the idiots. There are idiots across society, not just rangers fans. There are indeed idiots who are Celtic fans believe it or not. Stop the media paranoia nonsense. Celtic were only mentioned in a debate, and why not? I can well believe that ppl shout at G Smith and call him a dirty Orange B as he says. He never said Celtic should be investigated by UEFA, he merely pointed out that all fans are guilty of shouting derogatory chants, and where does the buck stop?
G Smith is a gentleman who I have had the pleasure of meeting on several occasions. In fact, one of the times I met him was shortly after the Bratislava game and he was talking about how great it was that Celtic were in the UEFA final. There are elements of the media who may be biased against Celtic…. (I can think of one baldy “hoo hoo hoo, Mick Young here!” and a few others.)… But, in the Radio Scotland debate, big J Traynooor (who is often accused of being anti Celtic, when in fact he is just an eediot and an “anti anything”) actually said, “this debate should not involve Celtic”. In other words he “defended” Celtic. No doubt he will still be accused of being anti-celtic, when in fact he just likes controversy to keep his listening figures high.
Keep the heid ppl. Rise above it.
Hail Hail
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Someone mentioned earlier that there was an ipod version of last night's 90 minutes which could be downloaded. Does anyone have link to the download? Don't have Real Radio Player and can't get it either. Please help!
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Doubtless there will be some un-informed rants from media hacks on the need for UEFA to investigate Celtic. Two points need to be made here.
First, as the UEFA spokesman made clear on 90 Minutes, their jurisdiction extends only to European games. Domestic games are the remit of the SFA.
Second, UEFA did carry out an investigation into the actions of Celtic supporters. It took place in 2003, and at the end of it they gave us an award.
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JollyBhoy, what about when Neill Lennon was booed by Celtic fans for passing backwards in a European Game!
Some of the booing aginst Lennon is because he's an effective player. However you are right at every ground including Celtic Park (by away fans) Neil Lennon is subject to racist abuse by some fans.
Neil is the player in the Scottish game that is subject to the greatest racist abuse.
Not if only he'd stick it back to the racists by scoring more wonder strikes!
Emjay
If Gordon is asked about bigoted chanting let's hope he does not adopt the Alex McLeish/ Martin O'Neill answer.
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Paul
As you predicted, it did not take Radio Scotland long to drag Celtic into the sectarian enquiry into TFOD songs and chants.
Gordon Smith does a good job in trying to come across as an articulate and educated individual, however he exposed himself badly by bringing up the Celtic fans singing 'who's the fenian in the blue' at Chris Burke.
If this supposedly educated man cannot (or won't - more likely) see that the Celtic fans sing this song to highlght the irony of the orcs singing about being 'up to our knees in fenian blood' when in their eyes they have a 'fenian' playing in the blue shirts, then it shows that he cannot be seen to be neutral when he brought this matter up to attempt to justify the use of the word 'fenian'.
I emailed Radio Scotland to highlight this but they quickly adopted a 'lets get back to football matters' line rapidly.
All Celtic fans should as you have noted be aware that they will be montoring us very closely....
Lets not give them any ammo to fire back at us.
Ayrtim
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malone19
Why is saying God Bless the Pope sectarian?
1) It is followed by "..and the IRA".
2) Where is the connection between psychopaths who kills innocents in Enniskillen and the religious leader of 1 Billion people and the single most important voice in the world. It is not immediately apparent to me.
3) I would imagine 99% of the people who sing it
a) Have never met the Pope.
b) Have never met a member of the IRA.
c) Haven't been regularly to Mass for 10 years, or since they were a child and their parents forced them to go.
4) It isn't our national anthem. For better or for worse God Save the Queen IS and therefore would be offensive to an Irishman as they would realise that the vast majority of Scottish people who sing it, sing it as a pretext for winding up Rangers fans, as a result are ignorant and belittle often heroic struggles for freedom.
Until we Scots address this issue, i.e., the issue of Scottish nationalism and independence then Celtic fans who sing the Soldiers Song are really not addressing today's issues and as a result look backward.
As backward in fact as those who sing about Derry's Walls.
In fact both factions being backward is exactly what London has planned for the west-of-scotland, divide and rule.
WE (The West of Scotland we, Catholics & Protestants) MUST BE CLEVERER THAN THAT.
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Paul
Who is Zsa Zsa?
fbicfc
You cannot be guilty by association. That is draconian. To punish an entire CSC for the actions of one is unacceptable. Self policing yes, but mass purging no.
firsbyhoop
Ignorance is not an excuse. Remember Lawrence McIntyre referring to 90 Minute Bigots? Pathetic actually.
Looking forward to the footie tomorrow. Should be a good game.
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Hello everybody, been reading avidly but not posted for a few months.
hailhail84
Gordon Smith is guest speaker at a RST dinner tonight. That says more about Mr Smith than the fact he was pleasant to you to your face.
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emu...
zsa zsa is murray.
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pujol...RST???
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Can't help feeling that,no matter how much we protest our innocence,no matter how many incidents which CLEARLY demonstrate that there is ONE sectatrian club in Scotland,we will still,eventually and inevitably get pulled into this sorry debacle,while it may be an exercise in semantics when we talk about what constitutes a rebel song,or what is sectarian,the plain truth is,if we could stop adding in the extras to songs such as Willie Maley and FOA we would go a long way toward giving our critics less of a stick with which to beat us.
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hailhail84
RST is the Rangers Supporters Trust, the political wing of Follow Follow fanzine ;-)
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Emus-
zsa zsa is murray
davros is murray.
darth is murray[just don,t tell D O'V.-WHEREVER HE IS......]
noel.
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This whole thing is such a minefield for debate on CQN, and always has been when it has come up, and yet it is good that we identify the issues and challenge them.
The great name of Celtic must never be compromised and we all have some role to play to keep up the good work started by Fergus all those years ago and indeed going back in history to the very foundation of the club.
I realise that many are calling out for Celtic to take an immediate and pro-active lead on reminding the support of our charter and position as a totally inclusive club regardless of race, creed,colour,ethinic, religious or political persuasion.
However to do so right now is I believe playing in to the hands of the Chick Young's and Gordon Smith's who are desperately seeking a way to extend the analysis of this problem to cover other clubs and more specifically our great club.
I am sure PL is more than aware that many would like to see this issue being a Celtic AND Rangers one rather then the specific target of TFOD
TFOD have no place to hide. At last UEFA have made their stand and the more objective and less slavish commentators like Graham Spiers, Roddy Forsyth and Phil Gordon in The Times today are beginning to tell it like it is.
The only way they can deal with this is to try and deflect some of the issue on to us and widen the scope of the problem.
Celtic need to play this shrewdly and ensure that no opportunity is takn to fall for the bait by jumping in right now to this debate.
Therefore, the role of ensuring that the spotlight remains firmly on the south side and is no way moved over to the east end is to make sure all HOME and AWAY games we do not let any Celtic fans compromise the club in any shape, way or form.
We need to get back to reminding the world of our charter, our distinguished history in being open to all AND our desire to stamp out any idiotic chants/songs that do not embrace fair mindedness and inclusion.
I believe The Mint is genuinely embarrassed by what he calls "The FTP brigade" but his words are empty rhetoric.
He may well say that he wants to put that in the past but the reason UEFA are investigating them is that for all his words he is not actually doing anything purposeful to stamp it out.
UEFA are not stupid, they know that a few idiots can ruin a game watched by 50,000 people but the reason they are looking at this is the fact that at Ibrox it is not a few idiots that are singing the song but a huge majority of the crowd and the owners of the club appear to be helpless or hopeless in sorting it out.
It seems UEFA are taking the view that if you won't sort it out we will!
Every effort now needs to be made to ensure the smelly stuff that TFOD are now in comes nowhere near us under any circumstance.
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I can't help feeling that too many Celtic fans are easily spooked.
While it's always good to keep our own house in order, something that we have been doing for much longer than Rangers, it's Rangers who are going to get punished, not Celtic.
To think any other way is to fall into the 'Old Firm' trap.
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3:58 PM, Emusanorphan
Draconian measures as you call them ARE required, because you can bet your bottom dollar that as soon as a single imbecile starts some song about something that they probably know nothing about we are letting every single rangers supporting bigot off the hook for their behaviour as make no mistake we will be made to look ten times worse than rangers supporters are by the media.
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emu,
I didn't say it was an excuse. There's nothing bigoted about rebel songs, so no excuse needed. What I said was that they should not be sung at Celtic games.
