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That's my bhoy.
Cheers,
Dad.
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Real Class that post,
I'm the only person in the universe who can write that.
Cheers,
Martin
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podium?
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3rd?
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no luck Highland Tim. This lowlander nipped in ahead of you!
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A quiet AGM today. No ranting and raving from anyone, all very civil. I felt sorry for WGS who came and went with barely a word asked of him.
It was great to meet you today Paul. Keep up the good work.
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Paul
And is anything getting done about the leaky North Stand?
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MudMurph, it must be the landslides slowing my post down.
Glad to see AGM went well. Will be interested to see how the meeja put a negative spin on it.
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Paul, I trust the investor level person's complaint was treated with the disdain it deserved?!
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Top Ten?
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Thanks for the Update Paul.
Couldn't make it due to work commitments.
I like the noises they are making: "We must win the league."
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Paul
GS has had numerous great quotes. This one will go down in football history...
“I don’t get paid for managing Celtic, that’s a job you would do for nothing, I get paid for the stress that comes with the job.”
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Paul67,
Any questions/comments in terms of an update of what the club are doing for seeking opportunities to join other leagues?
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Any ideas as to whom we might be after in January? Here's hoping Shaun has put pen to paper by then. Oh that that Generation of Domination might go on until we get into a league which excites us.
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Paul
What do you think the board will do.
Fix the roof or give SM his new contract.
I hear PL/GS hope to sign a new roofing contractor in the January window. Bad time to fix a roof if you ask me:o)
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chennaiseabird 2.12 previous posty thing?
That sounds nice tell me more!
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So no new contract for Shaun then?
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I know it's bad form to quote yourself, but just want to reprise something I posted a few weeks back: on the whole, Celtic is an extremely well run club just now, on and off the park. I wouldn't trade our board, CEO or manager for anyone else's current set-up; and we've got some very very good players. No sirree, no moonbeams needed here, thank you.
Hail hail
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Paul - How many times was the word CHAMPIONS used ?
:-)
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Lubo
Hear Hear!
Hail Hail.
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Following on from some of the more serious questions raised at the AGM, i would like to see more players put a wee smiley face within their autographs when signing shirts, a la Peter the Pointer grant used to do.
Did we concentrate on less trivial matters, such as specific journalists that we want banned from our stadium??
Or is that only a problem in the sou'side?
The futures bright
It's green and white
Wonder if our days of car-park kareoke will return:
"Thank the board, thank the board, thank the board....."
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TheLeftWinger
John Hartson used to incorporate a number 10 in his autograph so that you could tell it was his signature.
I think a few of the other players during the MON years used to do the same thing.
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Paul,
Sorry to do this but it's just too important to ignore. I normally enjoy kojo's posts, but on this occassion I see it as a clear breach of your "house rules" (and it would appear I'm not the only one)
from previous thread.......
---------------------------
At 12:03 PM, StevieS said…
Paul,
I don't wish to sound intolerant here, but ayrshirecelt @8:49AM really does have a point.
I am guessing (or should I say "hoping") that you have not read the post from kojo that ayrshirecelt is referring to, as I would have guessed (hoped) that you would take exception to it's content.
kojo,
sorry ol' pal, but you stepped WAY over the line with that one.
----------------------
StevieS
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p.s. I'm really hoping kojo comes back with a "sorry. was REALLY drunk". I'd hate to think it was a sober representation of a side of him/her I have not peviously been aware of.
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p8ddy
I responded to your last post on the other thread - i thought i would spare CQN-live from anymore debate on labour conditions.
Let me know if there is a follow up.
McStay
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For those of you travelling without a ticket to Lisbon, note the following up on the official site
Allocations Update:
We have received an increased allocation for our match in Lisbon against Benfica
The closing date for successful applicants has now passed. Supporters who plan to travel and would like to secure tickets should contact the Ticket Office on 0871 226 1888 or call in between 9:30am and 5pm.
Tickets are available to Season Ticket holders only.
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EDB
Got your mail - will respond later.
TMC
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I had dealing with that Sean Hamil chap when I was doing my thesis....i did it on divident re-investment/stakeholder analysis etc and picked Celtic as my subject. I interviewed Sean and he really couldnt have been more helpful. A Scholar, a gentleman, and most importantly, a true Celt. Keep up the good work Sean Hamil. Maybe I should have interviewd you aswell, Paul67......
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Sir Paul,
So the Boss got it a wee, wee teeny weeny,biteeee, wrongo!
The Club did NOT MANAGE A NET SURPLUS!.....
Howevvvvvvvvvvahhhhhh...
All in all, it all turned out to be a very good yeaahhhhhhhhh~
Lennoxtown, will bloom next August....
We shall continue the now established practice of strengthening the playing staff.....when and if needed......
Bodes well for Jan.
And like we informed..... there is money to burn......welllll, mebbe, no exactly tae burn......
How about..... Singe?
I'll go wit' dat!
Every time Mr. Quinn opens his mouth...... pearls of wisdom doth floweth.
We are so darned fortunate, that we have men of his calibre....a real .357!
A straight shooter and an all round good guy!
'N',let's no forgeet.... Pierre the Nonpareil.... The Magnanimous...Demetrius!
The One, that'sa da One, and da Only...
Mr. Strachan!
Whatta line-up!
A Cannot-Miss-Out...Out-fit!
Last Sweet 16? Nope!
We're aimin' for the last 4!
So,we may not quite make the Final!
DIS TIME!!
Next year,when Team Celi'c Mark 111...kicks in...
Then, t'ings will get...... VERRRRRRRRREEEEEE INTUURRRRRRESSSSSSTIN'!!!
Oh! It's so luverley, to be a Celtic Man;
An' A Great Big T'ANKS....to
Fergie McCann!!
Thocht ye that Ah Forgot?...didnya, pal o' mine?
No way.... Josie!( Should that no be Hosay?....ed)( Remember, we are speakin' to a mainly Glesca Audience)
Kojo.
A very contented camper....
Jist fun oot, that Molly is oors.....
WITHOOT A DOOT!!
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StevieS
I'd be interested in your thoughts on my analogy, as it were, with Morrissey's lyrics.
Once again, I do not profess to know what Kojo was getting at. Nor do I see how anyone else could.
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Martin42 - Congratulations on your first post, and well done on bringing up your bhoy (bhoys?) to be a good Celtic man, well done.
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Case in point!
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StevieS @ 3:36
I doubt it very much. People like Kojo have an allergy to admitting they are wrong about anything.
And to everyone who feels revulsion at the posting...
Is this not a free world where the Kojo's of this world are free to say anything they like, just the same as anyone else is free to say what THEY like?
(Please note the high incidence of cynicism in that last paragraph)
Is it not better, in some ways, to leave the post there, then one and all can see just what sort of an idiot can post drivel like that?
Just a thought!
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Very civilised today ( nothing like the days of the Bunnet and Jock Brown, who gave a sterling defence of himself whilst under severe pressure from the main stand) the good ship Celtic is in the hands of a fine Captain and Crew.
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Shaun Maloney is an important bit of business to be tied up HOWEVER...
What about Peter Lawwell - is his future at the club secure, it strikes me he may already be the longest serving Chief Exec already?
Vital that we keep this guy.
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il postino,
I hope it's ME whose wrong on this.
But on this occassion I don't think it was a riddle.
Even if it was meant as irony or humour, at VERY BEST it was extremely bad taste.
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and onto another point - I need to disagree with you Edmundo on the Investor level person and the ticket for Man Utd.
I know a few of these guys, ordinary guys, travelling on normal supprters buses who in that earliest share offer took the risk to get themselves into those seats and in the original share offer f the main reasons they bought them was this benefit of "preference for away tickets and cup finals. Remembering also that having put up thier £1500 I think it was they get the privilege of buying that dear seat year after year after year.
So if the original offer states that, I find it wrong that the guy goes in a ballot. The contract was made, Celtic should honour it.
I dont subscribe to every supporter is equal as well, I never will, nothing more galling than having followed the team week in week out to be gazumpted at one of the big games with limited tickets by someone who doest go often.
Even worse, and its my own pet hate, the sponsors at away games, around the front doors waiting on their clients with an envelope of tickets.
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All I know, StevieS, is we aren't going to get any clarification out of him.
And miketw10's is probably the sensible approach.
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ragnar hairy breeks
Isms are bisms except for prisms.
Prisms cause schisms that light the room.
Schisms are almost always good things, because they challenge entrenched thinking.
il postino
Moonbeams would be nice things to believe in, you wouldn't catch us being that daft would you?
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I hope WGS and the Board pull their socks up after that fierce rollicking at the AGM!
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stevie s
it wasnt only extremely bad taste it was disgraceful. there is no room on cqn for this vile racism
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Interesting to read all the stuff about globalisation and sweatshops etc.
I've fairly recently been in a location where some workers received minimum wage, could not take toilet breaks without permission, and did not have access to free drinkable water.
The facility was operated by a company called RHL, and it's location was a great big stadium with a red brick frontage.
These conditions are not uncommon in the area.
Call Centres - Glasgow's sweatshops.
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Someone asked what how the old media would spin the AGM. Driving home radio Scotland report Brian Quinn very happy BUT can a small section of the away support stop singing dodgy songs, or words to that effect. How typical?
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My dear friend, Chennaisedaboid,
Bravo! Mon enfant! Bravo!
You are a Pico Farad away, from Legendary..... an' dat's no too shabby,pal!
We are impressed.... did I no say that afore? Okay! Check dat.....
We are far from being unimpressed!
Datsa Bettah!
Pureee Buttah,Pal.... you are Pureee Buttah!
Kojo.
Impressed....did ah no say that awready?...... Sounds familiar!
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Paul, i meant to mention the pre season trips away before but it somehow got deleted towards the end of the day (manager standing behind you and you only realise and hit X instead of _!!)
Whilst commercially it may have been a success, the way it panned out in my opinion could result in its shelf life being alot shorter lived than it could be.
If you sell a product abroad and to a completely new market, the product needs to be better than what is already on offer.
This means we need to go over there with the style and glamour of superstars (inferior merchandise has been mentioned) and more importantly beat the local competition.
We failed miserably.
When we go back to Japan or Poland, unless there is an improvement on the field, we may miss our opportunity permanently.
Is this something that was mentioned, or something the board could say lessons have been learned from?
Timing has to improve, taking into consideration the condition the players will be in. Dont get too greedy by playing too many (is that the result of what happened with the half empty stadiums in America?)
If we go over there, play a few games, we know we will be in the condition to win, and impress the local audience, they will be dying for us to come back to see some more.
All in all what a difference a couple of players and being a bit adventurous makes!
Its all us fans have ever asked for.
A quiet and civilised AGM, what ever next!? : )
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Kojo and I have never seen eye to eye.Part of the reason why I dont post here as often as before.I have always found his attitude patronising with some and fawning with others.
I am glad he posted what he did.Maybe some on here will see him/them in a new light.Some say he has inside knowledge.I,myself doubt that,but it would be worth missing a few snippets if it meant no longer having to put up with his political and moral posturings.
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WeeMinger
Interesting point. I've seen one or two crackers in the UK. Not just call centres either.
The working environment my company sets up in India is, on the other hand, world class. At least as good as our UK offices. But we do have a nice call centre in Glasgow. But none here.
Just to show that I do read the bit at the top Paul, well, actually, what can you say about that? As much as the gathered shareholders, it would seem.
Any congratulations from the floor for our manager?
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Can anybody confirm if any of the following issues were raised and what the general outcome of them was. It would be much appreciated
1) The very low share price and are we worried about that ?
2) The Celtic poker room and other alternative revenue streams
3) Public Relations and Club profile with regards statements issued by the board with regards sectarian singing
4) The Artur Boruc saga and our penchant for going cap in hand with the authorities
5) The press and how we Celtic FC internally manipulate and divulge information
6) How many pre sesaon tours is acceptable and is the half hearted, half baked, money raising approach damaging our profile in the long run ?
7) Comparing the numbers employed in GS backroom staff with MON´s does the Celtic manager feel that he is being overstretched
8) Is buisness transactions with Mr Mc Gill on hold
9) Have we managed to sort the APR on the buying of season tickets with instalments
10) When can we start to see improvements within the immediate Celtic Park area
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Come on Kojo.
Don't let this one fester. Sort it.
We will then be able to move on to the football.
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Awe_Naw
No. 7
Not exactly an answer as I wasn't there but I did attend Lunch with the Manager on Tuesday.
He said that no matter what other decisions he made in football / at Celtic - retaining / promoting Tommy Burns will always be the best one he has ever made.
TMCwho'llbedroppingGordon'sname
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Paul
Was there any mention of the proposed development around Celtic Park, in terms of the "Celtic Village"?
We are all aware of the development which will occur around the London Road, with the new sports arena in the area, but this so called supporters village has been spoken about since the days of Wee Fergus, and is badly needed.
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Can I ask you to think back 8 years ago to the summer of 1998 (quite a good one as I recall) Would you have considered £100/week to be a reasonable wage, given that at the time renting a room cost around £40/week (bills excluded)? I'll wait for some answers before I continue.
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kojo
go post on follow follow your view will be more acceptable ther
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Have to agree with st stivs fp on the ticket allocation. I was really annoyed during the treble season. I was at every match of every round of the League Cup and Scottish Cup up to the semis. Never got any final ticket. Qualified as far as I know for a ticket for Seville too and was knocked back when Celtic seemed to change the rules at the last minute. When the Club make a committment, they should honour it.(By the way, got a ticket for Seville from UEFA, although I never did get to find my seat!!)
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forgot the last e. i apologise
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El tio verde
What's wrong with Follow Follow.
Some of my best friends are Rangers supporters:o)
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I often read this blog and only really post when I feel there is something that needs to be said, which admittedly isn't often. But the point is, people are critisising kojo for his comment on the last thread. I myself don't think it's worth giving idiots like this the attention he sooooo obviously craves. However, my concern is with Paul and why he hasn't taken him to task. Surely this breaks any house rules and why this comment was allowed to be posted is absolutely unbelieveable. I'm hoping to hear some sort of condemnation for the aforementioned post. If not, it would be absolutely laughable to hear any more comments from Paul, Kojo or whatever the hell he's calling himself today about Rangers fans, songs, sectarianism and the lack of tolerance in Scottish society. Hypocrisy at it's sickening worst.
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AJ
Nice to see yoback. This is the first time for a while we've been on at the same time.
So in case you thought I hadn't noticed, I did. I caught that reference to what I might or might not be on out here.
I can't remember what it was on the night in question. Tonight, now, it's lime soda. Later it mat well be The Dalmore Black Pearl 12 Year Old. (Malt whiskey that is).
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Geebeethai
Paul may not have had the chance to comment. He may be working.
Just be patient.
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My intention was not to start a witch hunt.
I generally find the other posts entertaining! Sorry all if I've inadvertantly "kicked off" a stramash! Last thing I wanted. :-(
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My dear friend, Amortised Jock...
This is just for you, babe... just for you.......
My reply to the members of this sainted Refuge of Harmonious Indigenous Friends of the storied land of Celtica...... who for reasons that are well known to yours truly... are suffering the Pangs of Despair, Disgust and Emotional Dishevilment...because, of something that to them....remember that phrase,gentlemen!..APEARED, to be something that the cat brought in.....
Then to those unfortunates..... please read the Following....
I am fresh out o' Garters..... however......
This wonderful quote is very apropos in, My DEFENSE....
"HONI SOIT, QUI MAL Y PENSE!"
Now this sagacious advice, has at least .....
FOUR MEANINGS..... all close to the intent... but I suggest...
Meaning Number Three........
Would be the One, that I pick to describe my decriers....
And that is ALL SHE WROTE.
Kojo.
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Amortised Jock.....fair point and I do apologise to Paul if this is the case. But I sense there are many angry and disappointed people on this blog waiting to see if this is the case or whether it was conviniently missed.
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Chennaise
Where is that Malt from?
Is it one you would recommend?
I don't think I'll be on anything tonight but you have certainly put me in the mood for a few refreshments.
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To continue let's put £20 aside for food and another £20 for bills, £5 for weekly travle costa and £5 for sundry expense. All of which seems abotu right as I remember. That leaves £10 to put aside to save for clothes/non-free medical care(ie dentis, opticians etc). What I'm getting at here is it's a shining example of an employer paying full-tinme staff the most basic of wages with no real benefits in their working environment. The type of people you'd give good thought to boycotting.
What a pity it was Celtic Football Club. As far as I'm aware there's no dramatic improvement.
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Kojo is absolutely entitled to his views and should be applauded for airing them. Celtic is open to all. It is up to us if we feel that it is worthwhile to try and influence him to change his opinion in a civilised and tolerant manner.
I do believe that Paul67 made a rod for his own back with his inconsistencies and unbalanced censorship policy on CQN.
But that´s just my opinion and that is his right.
What does Paul67 do when confronted with a blogger that posts his drivel; which some may find extremely offensive (i.e the entire Celtic support as far as I am concerned), but his valid opinion, against a post that generally would be considered art and literature but has a bad word in it that a 4 year old raised solely by nuns only may find offensive?
I tell you what I am glad it´s not my problem but lets stop the witch hunt leave Kojo to his own devices. Who knows more of him on here and we might get a few searching questions at the AGM next year? and leave Paul67 with his own and absurdly inconsistent censorship policy (imho) to decide who & what gets aired and who doesn´t. It is his blog. It´s up to him to develop it how he sees fit. Why am I thinking of the Kelly´s and the Whites ?
Hail Hail
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What kojo is saying to us all is basically "Before you accuse others take a look at yourself" but covered up in the usual attention-seeking nonsense that spouts from his over-worked keyboard.
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What a poor response Kojo,
You therefore transfer the blame of offence to those being offended???
The language used was plain and in context.........
Think of the language and terms you would find in the legal sense to prove or disprove guilt:
What would the reasonable man do?
How would the reasonable man think?
What would the reasonable man say?
Most of the reasonable people who enhance our daily reading with their very presence have found fault and taken offence to your post.
An apology still awaits.........
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Thanks Ardoch, great to meet you too.
Martinobhoy, I am not convinced the leaky North Stand issue was previously high enough up the radar.
Edmoondo, as I know to my cost, don’t take on Peter Lawwell unless you really need to.
The view from 440, Gordon was clear that winning the league was no more than acceptable.
St Stiv’s FP, PL was quite clear that all shareholder commitments had been kept, including preferential ticket allocations, as distinct from guaranteed tickets for all games, a commitment to which I do not believe was made.
McManus69, no direct questions on joining other leagues. I will take this one up myself.
Amortised Jock, maybe they could get Shaun to fix the roof with his extra pay from his new contract.
I like the way you think.
CarfinGerry, the usual answer was given on the Maloney contract, ‘all hoping he stays, try to keep him, but not break the pay structure’.
BAz67, Gordon has a wee glint in his eye when he said “champions”.
StevieS, not read any of the previous correspondence. If Kojo has stepped out of line he will be dealt with in the usual manner.
Celtic Gucks, I echo your comment on Sean Hamil. I have always had a meeting of minds when I speak to him.
Danny, I think lessons were learned during the summer trip (as you would expect).
Chennaiseabird, several congratulations and a round of applause for the manager.
Lovejoy, no mention of CP developments.
Geebeethai, “Hypocrisy at it’s sickening worst”
I happen to be particularly busy this week, and, apart from the article on the AGM, have not posted a comment for over 18 hours, and have read practically nothing in this time.
It is very easy to criticise me, but it would be courteous to look for evidence that I had a least been on the blog since whatever it was that offended you.
I am pleased to read your subsequent apology, even if it was accompanied by the speculation that I “conveniently missed” something.
The “angry and disappointed people on this blog waiting to see if this is the case” will need to wait some time more, as I remain particularly busy right now, and wonder why I bother.
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was Kojo the Hoops wearing oddball on Question Time last week ?
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Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo.....
I agree to an extent. However, there are limits. Do you think Rangers fans are "free" to sing the songs they do because it's their right? do the B.N.P. deserve freedom of speech?
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St Stiv´s FP,
everyone a coconut ! LOL
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Right, there's been a helluva lot of non-football type discussion over the past 2-3 days.
Can someone answer me a football question. Someone made the point a few days ago that Celtic remain one of only two teams to win the European cup with 11 players from their own country.
Who was the other team and when was it? (not a quiz, i genuinely don't know the answer)
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Sir Paul,
I do detect what I detect.....
Hmmmmmmmmm!
Count to ten..... and then start again....
That's what I do.
It woiks, it woiks!
Kojo.
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geebeethai,
I think that Rangers fans can and do sing some songs that are not offensive but carry the same message. I,e intolerance.
Naturally I would prefer them not to be offensive but this is open to interpretation and ultimately is the job of the Censor. Borat - funny or offensive ?
I do believe that the BNP should be allowed their freedom of speech.
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geebeethai -
''there are many angry and disappointed people on this blog waiting to see if this is the case or whether it was conviniently missed''
I suspect there are many pathetic people hoping to see CQN fail and desperate to spread the word that Paul is a fraud.
He's more than proved his integrity on countless accusations.
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geebeethai 4.48 - What is the basis for withdrawing the right of free speech from the BNP?
-
easy peasy -
Steau Bucharest when they beat Barcelona on penalties, i think in 86 ?
eveyone a romanian.
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St Stiv
Yep on Steaua Bucharest, but perhaps also Crvena Zvezda in 1991? This of course depends on the definition of Yugolslav at the time.
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shame upon those who think this is shameful........were is this one going?
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The World has gone Mad!!!
Racist - a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits & capabilities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
Whilst not to enamoured with the KOJO style or this piece in particular it is in no way racist... condescending perhaps insulting probably BUT RACIST no....
Can the PC brigade please stop hijacking words and twisting definitions....
CB
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At 8:57 last night I answered Martin's question No 10 Who was known as Crazy Horse?
At 9:07, a mere ten minutes later (and if I remember correctly it took me about 10 mins to put it together), I posted a link to 'Rockin' In The Free World' by Neil Young.
Now I've only just realised that both answers are connected. (Wonder what drew me to that one?) Neil Young's most famous band (although not at the time) is called 'Crazy Horse'
Is this Synchronicity at work, or did I just subconsciously draw on the former post to construct the latter?????
Spooky, huh????
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Paul and thismancraig.....I don't want CQN to fail, I don't think Paul's a fraud and I hope the "pathetic" jibe wasn't aimed at me.
I apologise to Paul for what has clearly offended him. I wrote what I did in the heat of the moment as this (racism and intolerance) is something that makes my blood boil. I certainly don't think he's a fraud and I'm sorry if this has offended him. I often read this site and am grateful and appreciative of the work that is put in. I hope we can draw a line under this.
Thismancraig....point taken, however, Paul made his point personally. He's a big boy and I think he can deal with this himself.
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No Mike its proably the mushrooms
But after 24 hours of the Politburo
and the radical PC brigade (im just waiting for the environmental fascists to turn up for a full house) And ill be having some mushrooms too ...
CB
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Crevena Zvezda (Red Star) had a Romanian in their team who had won it with Steua. Miodrag Belodidici played for both.
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Thismancraig, thanks for your kind words.
Kojo, I was in a really good mood today as well.
Some excellent news from my lawyer.
Geebeethai, line draw.
Hugs ‘n’ kisses all round.
Who was it said, “see the auld hauns”?
Il postine, one of the Red Star players who won the Big One in 1991 was a Romanian who had won the same trophy with Steaua in 1986.
I am back to work now.
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Beledoci (sic) played for both Steau and Red Star in their cup finals so it's only us and Steau who won with nationals from their own country.
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Actually guys, I think Steau had a foreigner in their ranks,I think he was Bulgarian not Romanian so they dont qualify as the other ... i wonder who does.
Tal
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geebeethai -
I meant to refer to your words then list the other stuff - not suggest you felt that way.
I'll make an internet hard man one day!
TMC
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Bambi
That is probably the most interesting fact of the day. Thanks
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Thismancraig.....as i said before, i hope there are no hard feelings and we can get back to what this site is about....football.
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"When you get the Celtic bug, you have it for the rest of your life," he said. "Maybe I want to play here for the rest of my football life.
"Scottish football means pure adulation. Before I went to Celtic, I had an idea how it would be, but it is bigger, more intense than I thought. Playing here is fantastic.
"My first game against Rangers was totally unbelievable – there were 60,000 fans singing my name and I had goosebumps all over. I'm a normal guy from Twente Enschede, and this is fantastic.
"It improves my life in all kinds of ways. Every time I am walking in Glasgow, everyone wants a photo or have me sign an autograph. I can't compare it to football in Holland.
"From the first minute of my debut I became part of the family. They are proud that I am playing for their club and that is a fantastic feeling."
As for the SPL, Vennegoor says critics shouldn't snipe before they've seen it.
"If people didn't understand why I chose Celtic, I say: ‘Come over to Glasgow and see it for yourself'.
"I hope that when I do leave, I am also spoken about with a good reputation and have become part of the history of Celtic.
"This is the best atmosphere I have ever played in. The fans shout louder than any other – it's an explosion of noise."
GO JAN A GO GO
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Citibhoy,
Ccouldn't
