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hello anyone there
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I thought not
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and i will take a hat trick
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Biggest club in the world? 2 right.
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miketw10
Couple of days late but just wanted to set the record straight.
I did NOT post in support of others, who advocated the re-signing of Shaun Maloney on inflated wages, as a means of selling him on to a suitable bidder at a latter date.
I can appreciate such a strategy as ‘Asset Management’ being practiced by a company in pursuit of profit and shareholder dividend satisfaction. As a strategy, I have no doubt it is an effective means of massaging profit and would be seen by many, to be sound, commercial, common sense.
Without the shareholders’ that invest in Celtic, Celtic, as we know it would be no more than a provincial club. I know of quite a few Celtic supporters who, although not wealthy, have bought substantial amounts of shares in Celtic as supporters and as an investment. They must, must have their confidence returned in kind.
Not to do so would be abject failure all round. Without the investment we would have no success. Without the success we would have limited investment. Hand in glove. Glove in hand.
However, with the best interests of the investors and supporters in mind, I would rather we raised the share value through success and profile enhancement by other means, before I personally would push out the ‘Asset Management’, boat.
I think if you revisit my earlier posts you will agree, I, at no time, advocated the employment of such a strategy. The exact diametrical was in fact the whole point of my posts.
I finished one with……………………………………….…………(vis-à-vis Maloney/McGeady )
Just can’t see the logic bearing in mind they are both, Dyed in the Wool Celtic Supporters’.
What price a big heart, skill and the love of the jersey.
I really do hope that Peter Lawwell can produce a solution that keeps all parties happy.
I for one, would not condone selling them for the sake of the bigger picture.
To my soft mind, they, and their like, are the bigger picture.
another included ‘what price their replacements’.
Hardly the stuff of Meat Market, Marketing.
Over the years I have taken immense satisfaction in watching some of the players that have pulled on the hoops who were not born within Scotland’s borders.
I may be wrong, but I will offer up, that when their time was up, the vast majority moved on, maybe with no regrets, but the vast majority will have done so under a cloud of sadness and a heavy heart..
They knew as they left, for what-ever their reasons, they would never, ever, again experience that heart swelling moment as they ran out the Parkhead tunnel to greet the roar of adulation and expectation that storms down from the jungle and the adjacent stands.
More often than not they leave with the phenomenal, massed best wishes of the Celtic Family.
However, it doesn’t take long to realise those best wishes are poor condolence for the absence of, the sense of belonging, the solidarity and we are one, that is the ethos that is Celtic Football Club.
To see a home grown talent leave is doubly disheartening to a supporter like me.
Now as a club, we can attract internationals of renown, from nations that one could hardly describe as third world (in a football sense). This last transfer window gives that statement credence.
Good players, from, Good clubs want to come and play for us. Great I say but in doing so it does not give me the same feeling of pride that nurturing one of our own does and seeing him take up a first team slot. The fact that he was made in Scotland, By Celtic and is coveted by Good clubs in Good leagues makes me think…………………..take a good look, he’s good, he’s better than good, they’re good, they’re better than good.
You want them in your team?
Tough titty laddies cause they are going nowhere not for your five million, not for your ten million. No, they’re going nowhere simply because, they don’t want to leave Celtic.
Xenophobic? Yes, but that is the way I feel. I have nothing against importing players but still proudly and fondly boast that the team I support is only one of two that has won the ultimate prize with 11 nationals.
If a player were to leave us and have ambitions of achievements to surpass those that could be achieved at Parkhead, then there are probably only ten to fifteen clubs throughout Europe that could match their ambitions in any given season. Are those teams in the market and are our players better than what those teams already have?
I believe Messer’s Maloney, McGeady and all the others to be reasonably intelligent and articulate individuals.
They are more than aware, that their agents, who are generally commission paid, have a vested interest in their clients swapping employers.
I am a contractor myself and when an agent says ‘Show me the Money’, he is thinking of his cut first and foremost. That is how he earns a living after all. Me and mine? We’re just a means to an end for the agent.
Maloney is just one of many perceived assets of any given agent. An agent makes his money from a percentage generated by all of his clients. There are many types of agents and many permutations of methods employed to achieve their aims. Their personal character traits aside there is one thing they all have in common………………….........................................
The agent is in it for himself. The Money. Everybody, and everything else are secondary.
There are real and inherent risks associated with every change.
Maloney, his family and his sincere advisers are well aware of this.
I agree with Paul. I have every faith that he will sign to extend.
I believe that Henrick Larsson was a massive influence on the, ‘young Maloney’.
I think that the ghost of Larsson still haunts the corridors of Parkhead and the minds of the younger players are still influenced by the impeccable morals and ethics that Henrick not only gave to Celtic F.C., but to football in general.
Will we ever see his like again? (Larsson)
I think yes.
When and Who.
Maybe his replacement already wears the hoops.
Maybe we just haven’t realised it yet.
Should he choose not sign, then I believe we have lost one of the potentially greatest talents to be made in Scotland for some time past.
He is a young man full of self belief trying to maximise his potential. Does he leave to realise this?
I really don’t want that to happen, but what I think, doesn’t carry much weight; what he thinks, most certainly does.
Now Mike, I defy you, now brand me an Asset Manager in the making.
PS
Paul
Just an aside.
I am a season ticket holder at Parkhead. As a matter of fact, I pay for two season tickets at Parkhead. I have only just got them back. At the birth of my second son three years ago I gave them up. Just couldn’t justify the cost at the time. Bearing in mind that I would be lucky to see one maybe two games a year.
I regret ever having done so.
Now, I pass the tickets to my nieces and nephews but they are students and can’t always afford to make the game.
Not every empty seat is due to ‘lazy Celtic supporters’.
pibroch94
The more you post the more in accord I feel with your sentiments. Without meaning to appear rude maybe, just maybe, your approach is to honest, ad hoc, and direct. Some people just want to have an opinion without being burdened with the knowledge and the graft required in it’s acquirement. Just a thought. Don’t want to appear in censor.
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georgiebhoy @ 9:37
Mike - Owen Paul!!?!?!
What's up with Owen??? 8o)
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Greenlion
.. stonking hattrick!
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After a fraternal debate the other day, I'd be interested to know what other shareholders do with their dividends.
We hold shares jointly (my brothers and I) and I have always advocated buying good wine and cracking it open when there's a Celtic triumph to celebrate.
Life is short, and it's for living and enjoying.
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Sometimes in balance sheet management, it is good to have some debt on the books - esp. if you use the capital effectively - makes you less attractive to potential purchasers. Zero debt shouldn't be the goal.
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Mike,
it just seems, so, wrong. (that said, he will forever live in my memory when on "Pebble Mill at one", the track started and he didnae!)
I remember a big thing at the time being made about him coming thru the ranks with Charlie Nick, but choosing music instead.
He lived both my dreams! :-)
G
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Kitalba, maybe I should have made my thoughts clear. “Lazy Celtic supporters” was not my thought (or words) when considering the regular empty seats.
Everyone who pays for a seat is doing their bit. It could be argued they are going the extra mile if they pay and are unable to attend.
Jocky bhoy, I was careful not to advocate zero debt, and certainly did not advocate hoarding attractive quantities of cash.
A company which never gets out of debt should re-examine its plans.
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It should be the most uneventful AGM in a while. I expect questions put to the board regarding a lack of pies and toilet paper, and the permanent puddle in Janefield St.
Looking forward to it already.
I always know when things are going well at Celtic Park. We don't use the tactic of having the AGM days before an old firm game in case we get humped, something the other lot did this time around.
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Who was on yesterday asking for translations about what to do to pick up tickets in Lisbon?
Can't remember, and I didn't respond because I only got to read late at night.
The arrangement is that you have to go in the two hours leading up to kick-off, not before.
There is a specific area in the stadium to go to. It's called the Posto Multimédia (roughly pronounced poshtoo mooltimeja if you need to ask anybody).
I've not been, but it says in the instructions I read that the Posto Multimédia is located at gate 25 at the Coca Cola stand, behind one of the goals.
If you're arriving at the stadium by metro, get off at Colégio Militar.
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kitalba...
I don't think I could spot an asset manager if one fell out of the sky and poked me with a sharp stick! Not my field, and I can't see me using those words because of it. I may have used terms which to the enlightened (Ie yourself) are reminiscent of asset management.
Anyway, I digress. Thinking back, I seem to remember lumping you in with others of a certain opinion, mainly because you were the people talking about the subject at the time. I was honestly not trying to put any of you in any particular camps. If I did, that was lazy of me and I apologise for it.
I come from an interest in the management side of things. I.E. No player is bigger than the club.
My concern is the signals it sends out to other players on the team. If management are seen to be less than on top of it, then they will create all sorts of problems for themselves in future negotiations with other stars of the future.
For what it's worth, and at the risk of repeating myself, I'd like to see Shaun staying. We have much more cutting edge in the team when he's playing. For sure, give him a good deal, but not something that's outwith the wage structure. That's how the massively overinflated market began in the first place. Eg... Rio Ferdinand earning £100,000 plus PER WEEK???? Give me a break.
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Would it benefit Celtics argument if Cardiff win the championship and go on to win a place in europe next season?
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georgiebhoy...
Re: That Pebble Mill At One experience.
Let me fill you in. Owen's reasoning is thus... He actually heard the playback coming from INSIDE the studio, while he was outside. He had only recently witnessed Feargal Sharkey doing the same thing live on a plane and was making an idiot of himself. He was determined it wouldn't happen to him. When it did, he just kept sshtoom and tried as best he could to make it look like a technician's fault, which of course it was.
There is an interesting footnote to this story. His drummer's dad had already appeared on Pebble Mill At One and it was his ambition to do the same. Unfortunately, Owen's appearance was the last ever episode of Pebble Mill at One.
Don't be hard on Owen for choosing music over football. The pull of rock music, once it gets to you, is very very difficult to let go.
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Bottom line
Shaun loves Celtic, Celtic loves Shaun. The club recognises the wee man deserves a decent deal and can afford to offer him one. He's earned it.
His agent sees things differently: a move to England will bring untold wealth. Money, money, money.
It's not all about money.
We tend to paint agents as the hawks and the club as the dove, but I honestly believe Celtic as a club, the manager, the board all want to do the right thing by Shaun Maloney and all other key players.
Agents don't need to be so divisive and so hawkish any more. Not with our club. Mel Stein doesn't seem to have grasped that and still appears to believe that money is everything.
Maybe he has taken Shaun Maloney to the top of a high mountain and offered to make him master of all they surveyed, but if he has he has done the young man a disservice.
If Maloney goes to Arsenal, Man Utd, Liverpool or, much as it pains me to say it (because I believe it's just a giant, flash, London wide-boy puppet-show) Chelsea, I'll withdraw this assessment, as a move to one of these clubs will help the wee man develop as a footballer, win medals, play in Europe each year etc.
Otherwise, it's only about money.
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With the usual topics out of the way, and not really up for discussion at the AGM, what topics/questions will be discussed/asked?? Any thoughts on this Paul????
Hail Hail
Damian1888
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Mike,
I am merely jealous that he seems to be decent at both football and music, whilst I am rubbish at both!!!
Does he still gig? And whom was his dad with on Pebble Mill?
(Sorry to all who are not interested in this stuff)
G.
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Paul
I wrote my recent post in reply to the last thread. As always, just as I am about to post, the thread changes. By accident, rather than design, I find myself, maybe not singing the same hymn, but at least looking at the same book.
One point I would like to take you to task on…………………………………..
The one area where no perceivable progress has been made is the task of moving Celtic into a league that will allow the club to fulfil its enormous potential. I believe we are the biggest club in the world waiting for the right deal to happen.
I can’t agree we are the biggest club in the world at this moment. To my mind there are still maybe three or four in front of us.
What I will say is that we most certainly do have the potential to become the worlds biggest club and I do agree it is the confines of our league, (no disrespect to any other team in that league but I am a Celtic supporter and concerned only with the betterment of Celtic) that is the mill stone round our neck.
I say that unequivocally from experience. I have been fortunate, through my job to visit some isolated parts.
I’ll give you an example Tai Po on the Honk Kong/Chinese border. The Harp Bar. As far from Parkhead as you can get.
The owner’s brother has a Chinese restaurant in Belfast. He is a Celtic supporter. Through his influence this little bar in the absolute back of the beyond is a Celtic Supporters Bar. Not Man. U., not Real, not Juventus. Celtic.
I count myself extremely fortunate to have experienced such amazing discoveries in several countries and locations you’d least expect to hear the name Celtic far less see their existence celebrated.
To my mind, there is a very professional back room staff at Parkhead who although relatively new to the world of ‘Profile Enhancement’, and probably staffed by no more than one or two, are doing a great job of making Celtic a Global Household name.
More power to them and soon, I will agree, We are the unconditional, biggest club in the world.
Why, if anybody cares to look back and read my earlier posts that I highlight the need for responsible behaviour at all times by all supporters.
We must get out of the SPL. It is an absolute necessity.
It is our route to our right.
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Bhoy Molloy, I don’t think a successful Cardiff would help Celtic. Uefa would not stop them joining England if they got an invite.
Damian1888, not really sure what will be asked that is relevant for the occasion, but I bet someone will ask, “When are you going to get Shaun Maloney signed up?”
The answer will come back, “Hopeful of a deal… talks are ongoing.. Shaun wants to stay, we want him to stay..”
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Lisboa
6 Days 23 Hours till I get there
CHAMPION
Who's counting.............
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Miketw10
I was not looking to take issue with you just pointing out that I was not in the asset management camp.
Kids were running about and being demanding and maybe I was lazy in posting without reading back.
I agree Give Maloney a good and fair wage without being silly.
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Here's a question for the AGM -
The stadium - any plans to complete it ?
I've got my 500 shares and I demand...er...that eh...you guys continue doing what you're doing !
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Paul67 wrote: A company which never gets out of debt should re-examine its plans.
I have to disagree here, debt per se isn't a problem as long as it is manageable and used properly (ie borrow to invest in the ground, for example)
A company with no debt is inevitably going to be a takeover target (see Man Utd for a prime example)
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Possible topics-
1/Supporter representation.Given the current state of unmalcontentment this may not be raised but is still important.
2/the Artur Boruc affair.The Board must reinforce the view that there must not be a recurrence of the clumsy way this was handled by the legal authorities.Again unlikely to get an airing but still important.
3/the poor quality of merchandising support that accompanies the team when they play abroad-especially the USA and Japan.There seems little point in sending the team halfway across the globe to raise the Club's profile if we don't follow through with the merchandising.
4/does the Club have a plan on how it will make best use of the'new 'media and technologies,eg the Internet,thus bypassing traditional outlets who have,to be fair,done very little for the Club in recent years?
5/How concerned are the Board regarding recent UEFA pronouncements on the content of some of the songs which may be heard in the ground?
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Baz67
McGrain 6 and 23.5
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Bhoy molloy and Paul67
Re cardiff qualifying for europe, i think this is a grey area, as i understand it they cannot.
Cardiff, Swansea and Wrexham can't qualify for Europe through the English Leagues as they are members of the Welsh FA. English clubs have been past winners of the Welsh Cup and couldn't qualify to represent Wales and the same is true of Welsh clubs who play in the Premiership/Football League - they can't represent England. Swansea were once good enough to finish in a UEFA Cup place in the old First Division but were not eligible to take that place.
So where would that leave us?
VB
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kitalba
Some excellent posts there, very interesting reading, well done.
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georgiebhoy...
Not really, although he toured with Mike & The Mechanics a couple of years ago. He occasionally helps me out too with one-offs. His thing at the moment is advising young entertainment prospects how to better themselves in their respective field. Masterpaul
I played in goals for his celeb XI team in the 80's once or twice.
I honestly don't know the outfit that drummer's (Greg, I think his name was)dad was with. It might turn out to be the house orchestra or something similar. Must find out.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/gossip_and_transfers/6079422.stm
any one know anything about this
Celtic are preparing a second bid for New England Revolution midfielder Shalrie Joseph (Daily Express).
Interesting given the discussion about global support and markets
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I know this is off topic but I found it interesting.
My company has an office close Ibrox and as such receive brochures for Christmas lunches etc.
This year a two course lunch at one of the suites can be purchased for £12.95, an additional course costs an extra £3.95. The total cost is therefore £16.... oh you do the maths!!!
Pride over Prejudice indeed.
London Calling - The Clash
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Paolo, at the risk of having to be too narrow in my comment. I did not say that debt was bad, or a problem, or that using debt to fund structural projects was ill advised.
Or (one more time) that Celtic should have “no debt”.
Celtic have been in debt every single day of their existence for many years, much of this debt has been used to fund player purchases and wages. While this has its place every now and then, it is not how we should operate ‘every single day of our existence’.
The company should periodically come out of debt, preferable each year.
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A football club with no debt would be a business 1st and a football club 2nd. A football club with too much debt would be neither.
Hang on i sound sensible there.
Scratch that.
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I cannot attend the agm even by proxy. I post this in the hope that it might inspire someone to try and go in the general direction at the AGM. There will be the usual questions with regards singing, facilities, player acquistion etc. I am more interested in COMMUNICATION and the lack of it and too find out whether its deliberate or policy.
Dear Brian,
As custodians of our beloved football club I appreciate that it is a very tough job and a delicately fine balancing act to do what you and the board believe to be in the best interests of Celtic plc. I do believe that it is a daunting responsibility and may I congratulate you in stating that I feel that the club is now being run well on and off the park.
Hence, can you please elucidate in detail on how the board arrives and decides upon official Celtic plc policy?
What factors are taken into account which bodies are involved and please describe the due process concerned ?
Are you personally of the belief that this process should not immediately anyway be in the public domain or would this be perceived as a hindrance in doing normal day to day buisness and may well affect how we do "sensitive" buisness?
I am particularly interested in how conflicts of interest which may arise are handled between different parties within the Celtic family (i.e board, shareholders, supporters, customers, employees etc.) While it is obvious to state that "everything is done in the best interests of Celtic plc" I believe that its crucial that what is done in the best interests of Celtic plc is communicated to the Celtic family in an open and honest way and at the appropriate time which should not affect how we do buisness? No disrespect but it is also presumptious that the board always knows better.
Failure to do so and I am sure you will agree will only allow room for suspicion and division amongst the family. Something that we should all wish to avoid.
Is the official policy making process something that is rigid and adhered too strenuously by our management? and is it possible for this official policy to be conveyed to all interested parties ? when these policies change temporarily or permanently or are ad hoc not adhered too is this change in the decision making process documented ?
Where there are conflicts of interest between different sections of our family I think that its important that the factors involved in making those well intentioned policy decisions are publicised beforehand in the hope of stimulating reasoned debate and not just presented as a hollow take it or leave it bare balance sheet. I feel that it´s important that the Celtic family know in which way we are heading and where we want to go to. One financial report a year I feel is not sufficient.
It is more than imperative that the Celtic family is able to see why the board has or hasn´t made a decision. It is just as important as Celtic winning on the park that the Celtic family can see and appreciate the good work that the board has been doing and that there is very little room for transparency and that the present board incumbents believe and honour that to be the case also.
Ultimatley with regards policies made and decisions taken by the board of our club do you believe that we have as much a right to be privvy to this information as the board, after all we are all Celtic supporters.
For much of the decision making process within Celtic plc to be disguised from the support under the "sensitive information" umbrella I feel does a disservice to the family and a massive disservice to the board itself.
Do you feel that this is something that we can address and improve upon ?
Yours in Celtic
Awe Naw
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NI : 1.52pm
i once had the misfortune of getting a bill for lunch with the missus, the cost was £16.90
i refused to pay.... and after much argueing, the missus got another fresh ORANGE !!!!!!!
we havent been back there..... and things were quiet in the house for a bit......
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According to this report we have a number of American targets.
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Ni @ 1:52,
Surely that is a wind up!
If that really is true, (I find it hard to believe) someone should get a copy of the promotion and post it for all to see. If rangers, or agents actng for them are promoting meals costing £16.90, they should be ashamed.
BAZ67,
6 days and 22 hours.
Tickets arrived today !
(Cheers BB)
CHAMPION
Lubo.
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The advantages of debt are as follows:
- You can invest in the future (plant and equipment, acquisitions, R&D, etc) without using up spare cash
- You can invest in opportunities without using up spare cash
- You can do all of this without diluting the value for shareholders, which would be the case if you issue new shares
Properly controlled, ie ensuring that interest and repayments can be met, debt is a good thing. It is a foolish business (or football club) that has no debt at all. In fact a quoted company without debt is either a company with no future prospects or else a takeover target for the asset strippers.
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Bad news for this socially responsible employer.....
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/24102006/344/645-jobs-aerospace-company.html
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Lubo
100% true. They get around actually advertising the full price by showing a two course as £12.95 and a further course as £3.95 but do not actually show the full price as £16.90!!
Message in a Bottle - The Police
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Paul...just having a late lunch and browse through today's Evening Times supplement "Times Past - Celtic's Greatest Ever Games".
There is a collection of photographs, most of which we have seen before, which represent 24 games throughout Celtic's history, 7-1 , Lisbon, Porto, Leeds Utd etc.
However on Page 5 there is a photograph under which is a caption "Celtic fans rush on to the Hampden pitch to acclaim their team's 2-1 League Cup Final win over Rangers in October 1965."
This is indeed "lazy journalism".
The picture actually shows hundreds of Rangers fans who invaded the pitch whilst the Celtic players were showing the trophy to the Celtic support!
It was very much a potentially explosive moment and it is to the Celtic support's eternal credit that they did not "retaliate" and to a man - and woman thay stayed on the terracings.
The Celtic players had to make a quick exit that day, cutting short the trophy parade. There is an enduring image caught on camera of Ian Young on alll fours with Tommy Gemmell grabbing a Rangers supporter by the collar. (that photo isn't in the Times)
The cup was thrown to Big Yogi for safekeeoping!
The outcome of the pitch invasion was that laps of honour were banned for several years with of course our club suffering more than any other given the successes that followed on from that day.
Newspaper articles of the time questioned the wisdom of allowing Celtic to parade the trophy after such a controversial game - we were of course awarded two penalties by Mr Hugh Phillips (Wishaw)!
Just wanted to set the record straight as the decision afterwards really summed up to me how Rangers were very much seen as the establishment team in those days.
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Re the AGM,
Point 1
Plans to develop the stadium? replicating the North Stand on the South stand would raise capacity to 80,000.
This would allow a vast amount of rellocations throughtout the ground - which should lead to a better atmosphere.
Having one of the biggest stadia in Europe would mean we would be an attractive venue for European Finals etc.
Before you ask and how do we pay for this? how about a 5 year zero inflation season ticket for say £2k
What would a new stand cost?
I played a game at Celtic Park in May and on the tour before the game the guide told us that there is a room full of momentos from visiting teams and previous victories etc. They dont have the space currently to display these things properly. for instance the 9 Flags in a row.
How about building a museum to bring our history to life.
Point 2 - Customer service. Improve the customer service side of the club. I get emails and leaflets about the Celtic Credit card ... I have had one for over a year!. The CRM system (which I think got a mention in the previous accounts) needs improved.
I recently tried to book Sunday lunch at the No7 following the press 1 ... press 3 etc ... it just thanked me for my patience and then cut me off.
Point 3
I would agree with earlier posters - the public relations at the club needs to be improved re the Artur Boruc situation.
Point 4
Dont bother asking for a fan on the board. The board are acting with the best interests of the club.
If we do make a profit in the next coming year(s) will we be able to offset that against previous losses? Did we not write something off in the last couple of years as it was not deemed likely that we would be in a position to actually make a profit.
Point 5
Congrats to the board, manager and the team for a very good job done.
Keep up the good work.
Hail Hail
Pob
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Dick Byrne 3.05 - thanks for that. I see New England are managed by Gordon's old Scotland cohort Steve Nicol - gotta be pals. There was a good piece on the beeb's fitba' site yesterday on Nicol's success in the US.
McGrain 6 and 21
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Pob,
With regard to building a new stand and increasing capacity, I am of the opinion that if we were to do it now while we are still in the SPL it would see a huge downturn in the buying of season tickets due to the fact that tickets would be freely available for the games against all the SPL clubs and this would automatically hurt our income pre season and lead to a reduced budget.
I don't think the need is there at present for a bigger stadium. If however we were to join the EPL or European league then I think attendances and therefore season ticket sales would be in huge demand.
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Gordon, what do you mean "in those days".
In October 2004, that font of all wisdom, David Murray, insisted that Rangers constituted “the most important institution in Scotland, after the Church (of Scotland)”.
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Gordon, thanks for that note on the 1965 League Cup Final. Two penalties for Celtic, can’t be bad.
You will remember getting two penalties at Ibrox in the 4-2 game in 1983. They had become so dispirited in those days that there were massive gaps among the Rangers supporters. Official attendance was only 39,000 if I remember correctly, and there was no stadium work going on at the time.
Cosmic man, you have passed the proficiency level, welcome to the club.
Phob, the South Stand will only be redeveloped if we gain entry to another league.
Poor customer service is a matter I have suffered from in the past, and I get plenty of email on the subject.
I do think things are getting better, though I also think that staffing levels at CP could do with an uplift in a few departments. A few years ago staff levels fell (to make more cash available to the football side) and I suspect that we are carrying a human stress subsidy.
Public relations. This was my pet subject when I started CQN and I have to say the message is getting out there a lot better than it used to.
I still see/hear things and know they have a few lessons to learn, but Roma was not builta in a daya.
The tax ‘asset’ will be used to offset tax on profits, even though it was removed from the accounts.
Still smiling at Hanif Uno’s excellent challenge to the board from earlier.
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On the attached link you can find some photos from Celtic v Benfica last week (and I have included the Man Utd v Celtic and UEFA Cup Final galleries aswell).
I would add the following, however:
But for the suspected interference of a certain Mr Stewart I would have had many more photos from the actual (Benfica) game, but I believe that the said personage took umbridge at me photographing him, and complained to the stewards. Less than 4 minutes after taking the photo of Mr Stewart I was told to desist from taking further photos or face ejection from the ground. And, having paid around 2 days' net wages to get up to Glasgow and attend the match (unlike Mr Petrov, who spent less than 2 hours' wages to travel in somewhat more style!), I wasn't about to get myself thrown out!
Why I couldn't have just been instructed to delete the offending photos, and been allowed to take photos of the game, I don't know. I mean thare were another 58,000 people in the stadium merrily snapping away to their hearts' content.
Nice one Celtic - YNWA indeed!
http://tinyurl.com/ymdome
n.b. If you click on the link below the main picture (just below the thumbnail images) you can navigate easily to and within any of the three included galleries.
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Pob,
RE: your point 4. While I am not drawing comparisons. The previous board were all Celtic fans as well. In fact Sean Connery was also a Celtic fan. He was at CP many a time. Now If Rangers were to hit Skid Row I reckon James Bond himself could invest in Celtic heavily. Mind you nothing to worry about. Any Celtic fan who blindly accepts without asking for transparency from the board that everything is ok hasn´t learned from The Kelly and White era.
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Pob,
I might be way off(!) but I believe the club are looking at creating a club museum (possibly the old primary school) although that may be converted to club offices.
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Bigchips I cant access them do I need to register with Kodak.
Dixie brilliant earlier
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Nice to see the recent Peace talks at St Andrews went well...
CaltonTongues
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Bambi,
fair point about demand etc for the tickets.
if we did sell it all ... think of the players we could bring in ... that would then raise demand for the tickets.
Awe Naw.
Sorry, I wasn't suggesting we take everything for granted or convert to the Murray style of Corporate Management.
The board will always be accountable and should make public they're intentions (where it doesn't harm/hinder the busineess), the accounts and provide a forum for the fans to question them.
I think thats what they are doing. The accounts are detailed and the agm is open ... It could be on a Saturday which would be more accessible I'd guess.
My point was that there is no point asking for the annual fan on the board. It gets voted down every year.
Or at least look for other ways to achieve the desired result. I believe the CSA and other groups meet with PL and others on a regular basis etc.
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Greenlion2, yes you will need to register. There is no charge, and you shouldn't receive pestering emails from them as a result... I never do.
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Pob,
Or at least look for other ways to achieve the desired result. I believe the CSA and other groups meet with PL and others on a regular basis etc.
Couldn´t agree more. I think the board are doing a fine job. I reckon that they need to communcate why certain informations especially those that are currently on the agenda cannot jsut easily be made available there and then. I do think that they should be made avialable later ... via a quartely report.
I am also interested when there are issues that a certain group have a vested interest in how they collectively arrive at their decisions. I.e a decision that they make may be great for the fan(customer) but poor for a shareholder etc ?
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Big Chips some cracking photo's. The ones leading up to Naka's goal at manchester I could feel myslef saying hit it....
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Bigchipuk - Some cracking snaps there - bet you have one of them big fancy cameras. Great seats you had too. Well Done.
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Greenlion2 - Great minds ...................
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http://football.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1929825,00.html
moving story of Irish legend, Paul McGrath
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Baz67, I do now but didn't in Seville. Hence the difference in quality. But it's nowhere near as big or as fancy as those papparazzi guys, who have lenses that cost more than my car did when it was brand new!
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AweNaw,
They have a legal responsibility to the shareholders, however income is based primarily on supporter expenditure and sponsorship....which is (in the long run) to a large extent based on volume of those attending and watching games, therefore dependent on fanbase.
Anyway, any utilitarians on the board will do what's right to promote the greater good....the worldwide support!!
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Paul McGrath
first attempt at link!
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Ha!
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Well done McGrain - I hear is a negitive from Puskas.........6 & 18
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Can't make the AGM on Thursday and haven't had the time to log on much recently but feel free, anyone, to ask the following question as your own:
"Is it the board's intention to have ownership of the Club diversified among its support as much as possible and if so how is this to be achieved?
If not, why not. Why was Fergus McCann wrong and doesn't this laissez faire attitude leave us vulnerable on a number of levels? Are long term plans in place to secure Celtic Football Club's identity post Dermot Desmond, whenever that may be?"
If there's time you could also ask who amortised all the Seville money, what is the capital of Peru and why is it when you drop a piece and jam it always lands on the jammy side.
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Zbyszek, my email reply to you bounced back from your spam filter.
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Kev.
1. Yes
2. Brian Quinn
3. Lima
4. Sod's law
Hope that helps ;-)
TLW
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I thought as much Baz. Tricky one for the Hungarian.
Noel, Pablo et al watch out bhoys, McGrain's now a linkster!
I suppose now I should link sumthin - umm...
McGrain 6 and 20
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Leftwinger,
I believe that within the inner sanctum of the board that they operate in a very positive manner for Celtic as far as the plc is concerned. That is after all their area of expertise. It is also natural to look after your own interests especially financially your own interests. We may belive that in some circumstances that we are being hoodwinked but few of us are hoodwinked unknowingly. or are we ? :-) So there are conflicts of interest within the decision making process at Celtic all the time.
I would just like to see more openness with regards to how Celtic is ran.
Take the Boruc and singing affair recently. Poor Paul67 suffered a lot from that information excercise and then there was the Boruc affair. I think that in both counts there are still lots of unanswered questions. If we can get a conscensus on such things then similar future episodes would be much easier managed. Everyone woul dknow at least our starting off point. Instead we have to start from the beginning every time.
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McGrain,
Excellent link to the Paul McGrath article. One of my facourite players as a kid, I always hoped he would sign for Celtic but I can see now why we were always rumoured but never did get him. Hope he stays sober for his own and his kids sake.
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Can you try again Paul?
I don't know why did it happen? I changed the settings of my Outlook Express.
Or; this is caused by the settings of the server? There was no problem with your email one week ago.
I could understand if it happened to some other people, but to you Paul. Stupid filter. Stupid.Very stupid.
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http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/hi/sport/6029272.html
Telfer looks a lot like Lenny here
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Aw naw - surely you mean...
Telfer/Lenny lookalikeys
McGrain 6 and 19
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Bounced back again Zbyszek. I am sending to your post.pl account, is there another I can try?
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MgGraininSpain,
6 and 20
Lubo.
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greenlion2 - Have you seen the Walfrid-Og site today?
For next week's game, the Jungle Bhoys are doing a banner for that young Hungarian player who died while playing for Benfica.
They're going to present it to Benfica after the game.
Nice touch.
TTTT
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Touche...
Lubo
McGrain listening to the Stone Roses
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The reason Telfmeister is getting a lot less pelters this year are a/he's thinking what he's doing and b/his cunning plan to wear a Neil Lennon mask.It also helps to explain why the Skipper,not known for his mobility,seems to be all over the park..
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ps I wonder if El Gordo's daughter has seen through his clever disguise
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The sad thing about that whole article is how GS tries to deflect attentione away from the real cause of the booing. He is in denial about red headed players. Someone should attack him with a bottle of whisky :-)
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McGrain-
well done on passing your linkmeister exams-
From last night-
Your first name - Fergus ?
noel.whoisjustinfromworkandisgantinforthatpint.
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Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo -
be careful where you are going with the genghi thing.........
You wouldn't want labelled as gingerist.....would you...?
noel.whohasnothingagainstginghers.:~)
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Noel,
I would love to see Aiden dye his hair ginger for the next Ibrox game.
Larf ... not arf :-)
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Noel - bad luck - I would refer you to my posts of last night regarding pibroch94
This one's for Ni 1.52...
Spanish Bombs
McGrain 6 and 18
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Aw Naw-
Surely you're not insinuating that young Aiden will get abused if he turns up with a ginger barnet...........
McGrain-
I can't be bothered trawling back so I'll just e-mail Baz and nick down to Somerfields for a few bevois.......
noel.
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TTTT and greenlion2
Just watched the Miklos Feher video again. It doesn't get any less distressing to watch.
A great gesture by the Junglebhoys which I'm sure will be greatly welcomed and appreciated by those he left behind.
EDB
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noel
Thought you were off the bevvy?
EDB
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Aye fair play to you Noel
EDB - you're right - a great gesture and reminder of what makes Celtic supporters different.
Miklos Feher RIP - for those who have not yet seen this...
Miklos Feher
McGrain 6 and 17.5
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Noel
You could pop into Michael's Cyber Pub it is well decorated and plays a decent tune.
Heraldo
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got real radio on.they are saying that Celtic have offered Shaun 30k a week and he wants 45k.even the guy on real radio don't believe that. then some1 emailed saying that he was on 14k a week.
Has any1 heard anything bout this? i would of thought he would of been on bout 4 or 5k.Paul can you shed any light on this.
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Help or advice wanted from any of our overseas compadres, particularly Central America.
My mate will be on holiday in Mexico around the time of the Manu game.
Are there any TV channels that will be broadcasting the game. He intends to take his laptop in the hope that he can connect to some provider.
Channel 67 is a nogo as he doesn't have an overseas credit card to register with.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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bobo_t
The people on Real Radio don't have a clue what Shaun is on or wants.
They have air time to fill so will just make it up as they go along. I thankfully can't remember the presenters name but he is a clown.
I would imagine SM is on a simaliar wage as Mcgeady and Marshall who are both on roughly £5K pw. Mcgeady is on more than Marshall.
According to Vinniethedog and others Shaun is looking for the same wage as Miller, which is near enough £20K pw.
Anyway I'm sure SM will sign a new deal soon.
Sadly the media will just move on to another player to wind up the Celtic fans.
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Bobo_t
I agree with Arctic Monkey, in that none of the media has a clue about the Shaun Maloney situation.
I am of the understanding, that Shaun wants to sign a new contract, but his i heard his agent has been out of the country, he may be back now.
He WILL sign on the dotted line.
The media are a menace, where Celtic are concerned.
Heraldo
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Heraldo/El Diego-
you have mail.
noel.
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Heraldo
Don't you think that if the meeja played fair with us our lives would be that wee bit more boring :o)
I think this site has allowed me to see through their antics and just laugh at them.
Don't tell anybody else but I used to think Teletext was up to the minute info. LOL.
EDB
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Paul,
Picking up on one of the points in your original post, I am sure that there are a vast number of posters on this site who are small shareholders and absolutely none of us are looking for a share dividend.
However, on the question of retained profits versus dividends, one other option would be an automatic share re-investment scheme where the shareholder would see his investment grow without all the hassle of buying - but cetainly leaving the dividend money within the club.
I think that this was discussed before but you seemed to think it was a non-starter? (I could be wrong in this recollection - getting older and the grey cells are dying).
Anyway, I assume that it really comes down to what the major investors (like DD) want to happen and that will dictate the policy on future dividends. But I would be interested in your comments on the feasibility of automatic share re-investment as an option for shareholders.
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Dumb question, but maybe someone can answer it for me.
When people refer to a players wages as £xx grand per week, does this mean £xx Grand x 52 weeks or is it per season week.
Just Curious.
Lubo.
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Bobo t,
Somebody stirring the pot - There is no way Maloney is looking for that sort of money - AND there is no way Celtic would offer somebody who has started less than 60 games for the club £5,000 more than the highest paid player!!(and breaking the wage structure into the bargain).
I had it on good authority that Maloney WAS looking for the same sort of deal as Miller...........................but time is now on his side (and a new agent promising the moon)goalposts have moved........time has moved on = more money for wee shaun.
Did anybody notice a while back a report on the average Premiership wage - it was in the region of £885,000 a year - £17,000 a week - of course that means there is a lot of players on much less as this must take in the mega bucks deals...........makes you think!
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Lubo
It's all 52 weeks of the year.
That's why alot of clubs wait till the start of the season before making thier big money signings. It saves paying them £25K pw for nothing.
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Noel,
If you are cruising for a 100th post, here comes a Nakamura like pass.....
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El Diego Bhoy
How you doing mate?
Yes, agree regarding the media.
It really annoys you at times, they really haven't a clue. Gordon Strachan sussed them out straight away. In England he was a wise cracking individual. Look at him now, he looks disinterested and unaccomodating (and who can blame him). They make up rubbish, and there are still people listening to their drivel.
It saddens me, as I would like him to be open and funny. He is dealing with a different bunch of media up here.
I can understand, as everything will get blown out of proportion, whatever he says.
Noel
Got email, cheers.
Heraldo
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Any chance of the Board offering thanks for the ingenuity and support of the Celtic Trust in coming up with ideas that have helped Celtic and promoted the Club's profile.
Perhaps the Board will thank the Trust for their idea, which was initially opposed by some, of fans reinvesting their dividends in the club - I wonder if Mr Desmond is doing that?
Thousands of pounds towards Celtic and ordinary fans putting their money where their mouth is. Perhaps we might ask the Celtic Board how many of their members have done this?
Wouldn't it be good if the Board were to laud the Trust for their idea of Celtic playing an annual charity match and the relative success of the Celtic legends game hosted by the Club and shown on Channel 5.
Would the Board like to speculate on why the Club without any pressure from Coors continue to limit the sale of non-branded Celtic strips for children?
How about the Board coming up with a real commitment to corporate social responsibility?
Finally some people were mentioning empty seats and leaving early - perhaps we can ask how many Board meetings Dermot Desmond has attended in the past year- just a round number will do.
Will Dermot Desmnond leave early from the AGM again?
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Sorry Noel...held onto it too long :((
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HamptonTim......
---------------------------------
However, on the question of retained profits versus dividends, one other option would be an automatic share re-investment scheme where the shareholder would see his investment grow without all the hassle of buying - but cetainly leaving the dividend money within the club.
----------------------------------
Did this not get passed at the last AGM, I'm sure that I joined something like this last year.
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Last night of offering a Benfica section ticket for Lisbon at 30 euros. If no takers- it goes on to benfica fans' sites tomorrow.
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Lubo
I'm guessing here but most if not all of us are entitled to paid holidays. If we are in employment of course.
Presumably football players are no different.
EDB
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Paul67
I'm am delighted that you have brought the need to move to another league to the fore.
This is THE greatest challenge that DD and our board face.
The rewards for success are amazing.
Paul you have an wonderfull forum here.
The site is now part of my daily life (sad as that may sound).
You must keep beating this drum.
We NEED change if we are to become the biggest club on the planet.
You must exert whatever influence you have, with the powers that be ,to ensure that a serious plan is designed and acted upon, to achieve this aim.
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Ghentlemen, and any Lhadies that may be out there masquerading under confusing Monicas
I have watched and read with increasing frustration over the last few days the posts on the Maloney situation. I have even typed a number of responses and not posted because I thought they were a waste of time.
But here's the thing. We have seen the effectiveness of Peter Lawwell's strategy. We have admired it on this blog. We have even had a poster saying I fully support PL, but what is going on with Sean Maloney (paraphrasing).
Here is what is going on. We have two good people acting in good faith for the best interests of the player and the club. As an employee I would ask for no more. As an employer I would strive for no less.
So chill. The best interests of both are being served, and I expect to see Sean realising his potential at Celtic. More than that, I hope he will achieve legend status.
And more, even, than that. I expect to see his only rival for player of his generation from these shores tred the same path. Sean and Aiden, your time has come. The hoops is the only costume for the occasion.
You don't want to be the next David Beckham, do you?
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HamptonTim-
my fault- I was ball-watching.......
I,for one,believe Derek Johnstone when he say Shaun Maloney is looking for £85,000 a week...........
no-not really.
noel.whothinksShaunwillsign.
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I posted the other day, hoping that someone from the Jungle points could organize at banner to remeber Nikos Feher,and take it to the match in Lisbon.
I see that they are planning to do this.
This is a great example of what makes us the greatest fans in the world.
To the Jungle Bhoy's ,"Respect".
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Questions for the AGM
1) Do the Board see any merit in the purchase of a nursery club to develop our young reserves at a higher standard of football? If so, I hear that there is an owner of a Senior club within Glasgow looking to sell.
2) Can Naka have my babies? (Madonna widnae take them).
3) Does Derek Riordan exist?
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Gerry,
You could be right - in which case it passed me by - or maybe another few grey cells just drowned in the alcohol.
Possibly the club could provide simpler information for shareholders on the official site where such dividend options could be clarified and selected?
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And while I'm on my high horse.
Edward, if you read this and need an antidote to the holier than thou green and white supremacists, join the club.
Email on my profile.
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My apologies for all the typing errors on my previous post.
I am referring to the Jungle Bhoys.
Well Done.
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chennaiseabird
I'm pretty sure it is my post from last night you are talking about and to be honest I waffled on a fair bit and my point got lost.
My point wasn't whether SM will sign or not.
It was that we shouldn't be worrying about SM signing right now. That should have been last October.
Right now SM should be one year into a five year deal and we should be fretting over Mcgeady's contract situation.
But PL for whatever reason didn't start nego's with SM till Feb 2006. That's pretty damn poor Asset Management in my book and that was the point of my post last night.
Look at the power SM now has over us. Vinniethedog is now alluding to the fact that SM wants more than Miller. That's not what I heard three weeks ago but he seems to know his stuff.
So in conclusion my point last night was that I think PL has been great for Celtic but the SM contract saga is a black mark for me.
We should have never been in this situation.
But as I said last night, PL might have offer SM a contract last year and had it rejected.
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I've waffled on again!
:)
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That Paul McGrath article posted earlier was heartbreaking, but a great read.
He was always one of my favourites.
Footballers of late, seem to be caught up in the whole "celebrity" lifestyle - drink, drugs, gambling, parties, etc etc - we see more and more going into rehab etc now than we ever did before.
Do they have too much time on their hands away from the stadium? Is it up to the clubs to do something about this?
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Minx-
you have MAIL !!!
noel.
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ok my tuppence worth..
Shaun has had 1 good (ok great!)season and the potential to have many many many more (and hopefully in green and white)
If we offer Shaun 20k a week even 25k a week (which would be some pay packet) and say Spurs/West Ham/Villa/Whoever offer 45k a week
do we or should we compete with that.
I for one don't think we can and I also don't think we should until we move into another league we have to accept there will always be situations like this. Rightly or wrongly we can argue until the cows come home if we should be in this situation or not. Should we have signed the potential up last summer or sit as we are just now and wonder will he or won't he.
I for one really hope he does, he has gtd first team football and the chance to develop into a bigger and better player, surrounded by Fans who love him.
And a huge well done to the jungle bhoys for the banner and if they did get the idea from tinytim well done you!
Hail Hail
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El Diego Bhoy
I agree re. McLeish, he would be slated by both fans and media at the start they have made this season.
I had to laugh, driving back from Manchester last thursday, and he was the best manager in Europe again after beating a top italian side :o))
Yes, any result away from home is a good result.
I am also confident that this Celtic side will only get better, once ALL the new bhoys fully settle. Ghuys like Maloney and McGeady gain even more experience, which will help their development into the players we hope and know that they will become.
We have the upper hand at present, lets drive home that advantage. I'm happy with the progress under Gordon Strachan, long may it continue.
Heraldo
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Paul67
Full marks for your ability to recycle nonsense and re-write history. The main thing for me is whether you really believe this nonsense and the "emperor/Irish raj" (delete as appropriate) really is wearing some natty new togs.
Seven years of overspending?
Name them, my recollection we had -
KD / JB = 1 year of debt financed player investment.
MON yrs 1+2 = 2 years of share issue financed player investment.
MON yrs 3-5 = 3 years of wage inflation, squad stagnation and performance degradation.
We paid a high price for the Seville to Barca high.
Your comment on the "Balance Sheet picked up at just the right time" is the understatement of the season so far. This was due to the share issue that DD had bad mouthed 6 months before, I wonder why the change of heart? Surely nothing to do with the fact that pushing SP out the door was too close to distress selling to get the money that was required.
No new money and BQ would have been called in for a little chat with our bankers, dressing the share issue up as anything other than a financial necessity is self delusion at best, board propaganda at worst.
On the subjedt of debt I am puzzled, DM does a tidy up exercise over in Govan, generating cash at every turn and the whole world and his dog can see it as a prelude to a sell off.
BQ does his master's bidding and the club becomes a net seller to generate cash on top of a lucrative CL qualification and we the fans are expected to stand on the sidelines and applaud.
Aye right!
Sept 07 looms large in this and when it is all over we may have a club we do not recognise.
On the subject of debt are we a growing, established business aiming for the success that has eluded us for too long or are we investment trust looking to generate a surplus and return cash to the shareholders.
In a low interest rate environment with money being available at historically low levels any thoughts of running a club that wants to develop and improve with no debt would be at best evidence of a lack of imagination and at worst a dereliction of duty regarding the hopes and dreams of the support, ie you and me.
For the record DD has invested £20mill+ in the club in the last 7 years and for this he has doubled his holding of shares in the club.
The general support pay out £25mill+ in season ticket money every year and have nothing to show for it except memories.
Paul67, any chance your next article would reflect this fact?
Finally any thoughts on my prediction that the season will generate a positive cashflow of £12mill+ if we don't invest on the playing side?
That is £12mill in cash to pay down the debt or invest in the club, where would your priorities lie?
Currently the club is a net seller this season, do you think yhis will be the case in June? And if it was would you complain?
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noel90 :-)
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Tonight's teams from the Walkers Stadium tonight include...
Leicester
22 Sylla
Substitutes
01 Douglas,
Aston Villa
11 Petrov
Substitutes
20 Sutton,
31 Agathe
Marty the Maestro - what struck me was how shy Paul McGrath is reported to be and how he needed the Don Revie to get over the lack of esteem. One of the greatest of his generation and a mountain of a man - yet low self esteem. One wonders if he'd had someone like Martin or Gordon or Graham Taylor earlier in his career just what he'd have achieved.
McGrain 6 and 16
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Arctic Monkey
I'll be honest with you. I bought the album on a recommendation and I'm still trying to get into it. But it's a struggle, Bob Dylan's more my thing.
As to Sean Maloney. You're right, we could have signed him up earlier. Maybe we were'nt sure how he would recover from his injury. Sean had an exceptional season of growth by any standards last season. He did what so many Scottish prospects failed to do. He made the step up from prospect to player.
So it would have been a gamble.
But even if we had taken it, how would that have changed things? We've seen it with Stan. If the player wants to go, he goes.
And here's the point. Stan went on our terms.
I'm not prepared to accept that Sean, or Aiden, will ever want to go. My fallback from that is that if they do want to go, they will go with respect for a club which treated them well. Not a club which tried to tie them in when they were weak.
So they won't go freely or easily. Ask Charlie Nick, near legend, and the others.
All I hear just now is that Sean wants to stay and that he believes the club is treating him well.
That's enough for me.
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MartytheMaestro :- My opinion is that the sheer scale of wages they receive causes problems, go back 30 years and before (I know that makes me sound like one of the (aul huns) and players would get a wage that was around 5 or 6 times a tradesman's wage, this gave a very good standards of living but they were still in touch with the community they came from. Now many players receive the equivalent of between a year and two years pay every week, it takes them away from the working fan and into celebrity land and often they tend to move in circles the average fan just can't afford. many older players always retained their roots in the town or community they came from that very rarely happens now. I feel that this combined with as you say the amount of time they have spare means it's far easier for them to succumb to the drink and drugs life style, although I feel this is far more prevalent down south the temptation is still there for many younger players in Scotland.
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Arctic Monkey
Please don't take this as a go at you or any other posters on the Shaun Maloney debate but what constructively and with knowledgeability is being discussed on this site?
Earlier this year Peter Lawwell was being praised for his efforts, fast forward a few weeks and what do we have? PL should have had him tied up much earlier. What - in chains? Get real.
If Shaun doesn't want to stay with one of the world's biggest clubs and be paid according to the talent/ability he has displayed to date and with the promise of more riches in time but would rather make a quick move to an environment where your salary is not dependent on your matchday performance but what your greedy agent can pilfer for you?
That's not the guy I think we have at Celtic.
EDB
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ps Arctic Monkey
It wasn't just your post.
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Paul,
Happy days, if a wee bit over the top. One question: I can't make the AGM, but could your suggestion that shareholders defer their dividends or whatever, be put forward? I think most shareholders would be only too happy to accept that reinvesting the Club is to all our adavantage.
Oh that we could move out of SPHell..
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I think there would be a complete team of ex-Celts involved in the English league cup tonight.
Douglas, Sylla, Agathe, Petrov & Sutton as the Leceister - Villa game
Hartson and Mowbray at the Baggies - Arsenal match
Peter Grant
Malky McKay
Paul Lambert
Stephen Crainey.
I have been quite bored or am rather boring coming up with this meaningless facr
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Like all of us, I hope that Shaun Maloney re-signs and becomes a Celtic great.
However, there is a lot of stuff being spouted regarding deals that should have been sealed up 12 months ago etc.
Let's not forget, 15 months ago it was widely rumoured that Shaun might be loaned out to the sheep.
I don't think that anyone could have foreseen the improvements he made last season following his disappointing development under MON (...yes, I know he was also seriously injured).
So, we are where we are. I don't think that Peter Lawell could have seen this one coming 12 months ago - but the dramatic improvements in Shaun's performance and influence have seen him move up the salary grades at a rate of knotts, and time is definitely on his side.
Let's just hope that everyone acts sensibly and in good faith - but if it isn't meant to be then so be it.
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Edward
Good post again. You are right about players wages nowadays, taking them away from the average fan.
I remember when I was a kid, and how approachable players were. I don't know if there are many like that nowadays.
Sign of the times, I suppose.
Heraldo
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Mad Mitch
You claim the supporters invest £25m per year and only have memories as a return.
Aside from a great experience What else exactly do supporters or consumers expect from a Football Club ?
Am I missing something ? Or do you think supporters should expect a dividend too ?
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chennaiseabird
I'm not much of an Arctic Monkeys fan anymore. I first started posting under this moniker in July 2005 before most people had ever heard of the Arctic Monkeys. I just like the name now and can't be bothered changing it. The King Of Leon doesn't sound as appealing to me.
I like to get into bandsd before most people have heard of them. The Killers, Razorlight, The Automatic, The Kooks, The Fratellis, Jamie T, Kings of Leon, Snow Patrol, The Zutons, The Strokes etc... I liked them all before most people had ever heard of them.
Some new bands I like at the moment are:
The Rifles
Milburn
Jamie T
The Killers
Kasbian
The Fratellis
Air Traffic
They all probably mean nothing to you. :)
Anyway back to the football and more precisely SM.
I agree if he truly wants to go then what can we do?! Aslong as we get what we deserve for nuturing his undoubted talents I will be happy.
I'd be bitterly dissapointed if he walked away for nothing at the end of the season.
That won't happen though as I have a feeling he will sign in the next fortnight. His flat going on the market is what I base my hunch on.
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Madmitch
"Sept 07 looms large in this and when it is all over we may have a club we do not recognise."
What do you expect to happen?
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Minx
And another thing.
Show me a great young player from our kind of background who has gone on to fulfill the potential.
Beckham, I mentioned earlier.
Owen? Nup.
Rooney? Jury's out. (I hate that phrase).
Scifo? Moderate.
The dutch from the late 80's early 90's, OK.
Sean, Aiden, you know it makes sense. Where else is there to go?
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I maybe, understandibly omitted Aliadiere(he'sscored twice tonight) from my original list. Its probably between him or Bertie Biggins as the least productive player who has played for us.
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Sad day today,
11years ago this afternoon that Mrs 42 passed away.
My boys and I still miss her dearly.
Please say a prayer for her tonight.
Cheers,
Martin.
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El Diego Bhoy, HamptonTim
I know what you mean and I am probably being harsh on PL.
I just believe that SM should have been offered around £12K pw last October and he would have bit your hand off for it. That would have been roughly three times his current salary.
We all knew how good SM was last year and any doubters were won over with his wonder strike against Rangers in November.
My only criticism of PL was the three months.
Why?
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Arctic Monkey
Then you must know White Sripes, which is sensible noise?
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First time trying a link so hope this works!! (fingers crossed!!)
Just received this from my brother in law who is a die hard Rangers man & mason but is a nice guy..
Good entertainment value but not one for the pc brigade.
Cheers
Discybhoy
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Martin42 :- My deepest sympathy to yourself, Paul and the rest of your family, losing a loved one is always hard to take and the aniversary of that day is always bittersweet. I don't share your beliefs but hope that the memories of the many happy times you shared bring solace.
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DiscyBhoy
Excellent.
"The main difference between you and me is that you're a bigot and I'm not."
Billy can do it and get a laugh. And maybe somebody in the crowd is listening.
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Martin42
Im sure everyone has lost someone or some people close to them, no disrespect Martin or to your family but remember them all, especially those who have no one to mourn them or pray for them.
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Guys, Guy's
In a nutshell i think Shaun owes the club a new contract considering how he has been treated over the years.
Granted he should try and get the best deal however, he has to be realistic as well.
To people who said PL should have got it sorted last year???? I ask you, how many of you thought Maloney would turn out the player he has at the present moment
considering his serious injury and lack of action given by MON at the time? Answer = NO ONE
As i have said previously if it wasn't for Gordon, Shaun would never have been allowed to flourish at the club instead he would be playing for Aberdeen, Livingston, or some other club.
My point is i reckon Shaun should show some loyalty to those who had faith in him (ie) the club and GS and sign a new contract.
If as rumoured he is wanting on a par with Kenny Miller then i reckon that is fair enough. I don't see anthing wrong with that however, anything higher i would have to say get real man.
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Arctic Monkey
Your question to EDB and HT.
SM is not the hand biting off type. One of the things that will make him one of the greats is his self belief.
He may have taken that offer then, but the negotiataions would have been as intricate as now. And would not have weakened his current position. Fact.
Trust uncle PL. I do.
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Martin42
My sympathies to yourself and your family.
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WGS
I agree with all of that and I see no evidence to say that events will be any different.
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Martin42
I have lost both my parents within the last 6 years.
Like your late wife,i am sure that they are looking down on us.
She will have plenty to be proud about.
I say my prayers most nights.
My thoughts are with you and your family.
God Bless.
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chennaiseabird
Yeah I like the White Stripes and also like The Racantuers. Jack's other band. Have you heard them?
In my list above I forget a band called The View. They are from Dundee and are brilliant.
Definetly one to look out for. They will be headlining all the festivals next year methinks.
Fair point aboout SM's self belief.
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Martin42,
I lost my mother to cancer 20 years ago on the 8th October 1986 at 04:52 when I was only 14 years old.
We never found out that she had cancer until the night before and she passed away 3 minutes before we were able to reach her after receiving the dreaded phone call from the Victoria Infirmary in Glasgow.
I can certainly relate to how you must feel right now.....
Not a day passes without her being in my thoughts and I am sure that you and your family will be similar.
You will all certainly be in my prayers (despite my falling out with the Lord at the time for taking her.)
God bless you all
Discybhoy
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Arctic Monkey and EDB,
Thank you for the responses.
£30k x 52 = £1,560,000.
I wish I paid tax on that wee bundle.
Lubo.
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Martin42
My thoughts and sympathy to yourself and your family.
My dad's passing will be 6 years next month, and I think of him daily, I have all the memories to cherish, as you will.
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Martin, Paul, Kevin
From what I've seen, you're strong together, and it can't all be down to you three.
Condolences on you grief, and congratulations on your luck. She is still with you, I think.
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Bobo t, don’t believe everything you hear on the radio.
HamptonTim, a dividend reinvestment scheme has been in operation for two years now. Fair point, but I would prefer not to have dividends to start with.
Lubo, 7:58, sure does.
Historyreader, board members already publish what dividends they reinvest in the Scrip Reinvestment Scheme. Dermot Desmond also states how many board meetings he attends each year – in writing to each shareholder.
Tinytim, I have been saying for two years that a new league environment is the principle request we should make of our board.
It would change Celtic from a plucky club from the fringes of the football map to giants of the game.
While I know the club dearly want to see change, I am losing faith that they know how to bring it about.
I’ll give your comment some thought.
EDB, comment deleted for language violation.
Madmitch, you have been very quiet of late, I was getting worried.
I am not going to go over company accounts with you again. We have made a loss for the last 7 years, read the accounts for verification. Over this period we spent tens of millions more than we earned.
Over the period Dermot Desmond has been major shareholder, net debt rose from £2.5m to many times this figure – even after two share issues.
Debt has not been run down – I wish. Again, if you are a shareholder, read your accounts. If not, become one and ask the club for copies.
I know the facts do not fit a particular state of paranoia that existed in many places for some time, but facts they remain.
The club is being so well run that even my old friend Negative Anon is clearly now Positive Anon.
Who would have guessed?
Burnley78, 9:04, I would like a game once in a while.
Sure do Martin42.
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8.58 Parkheadcumsalford
I will save Paul the need to highlight Paul's debt to the trust
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Burnley78
Interesting topic, the balance of power between capital and consumption, wealth and income. The only thing that is certain is that the business folds if the season ticket money does not arrive.
My main point is that football club as a business has a low assets to T/O ratio and that anyone in charge should be treated, and should want to be treated as a custodian and not an owner.
The football club belongs to the support and every effort should be made to get this fact reflected in the ownership of the club.
This idea was worked on 15 months ago but AMB put it on the back burner if my memory serves me correct.
tinytim
Very unsure what will happen come Sept / Oct 2007. The main thing is that a lot more will happen if the share price bobbles about at the 25p mark.
Real uncharted territory.
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Let's talk rumours bhoys.
First up anybody heard the rumour about Beckham on a Bosman next year? Certainly would tie up with the pre season tour to Japan. Naka, Beckham, Japan, £££ ching, ching!!
Sharlie Joseph & Freddy Adu from MLS?
Luka Modric & Rafael Van Der Vaart?
Kojo, Collie were are you?
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Martin
My thoughts, and those of my good lady and daughters, are wholly with you and your family at this difficult time.
Kind regatds,
Jim and family.
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OK Arctic Monkey
Raconteurs I've heard but here's a real challenge.
Loretta Lynn - Van Lear Rose?
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Paul
Sorry for the "alleged" language violation. Wasn't conscious of it.
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WGS
Beckham? I mentioned Beckham in an earlier blog and I'm prescient when it comes to Celtic things, so you must be right.
Actually, no, Gordon Strachan wouldn't give him boot room. Just my opinion of course, but where would we play him? Left back?
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Paul67
Any chance you could move beyond your stock answer?
You do not need to go over the accounts with me you need to go over them with your board mole / accountant.
Seven years of overspend is nonsense, please try and get to grips with the detail, your analysis is simplistic and shabby.
The big question for the club at the moment is why are we net sellers this season. i thought the business pplan was based on consistent targetted investment to support our youth policy, not sell our most valuable asset and bank the surplus?
£12mill+ in cash, where will it be used?
Answers please?
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EDB
Sorry mate, alleged doesn't wash on here.
It WAS a language violation.
What did you say anyway?
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chennaiseabird
I had never heard of Loretta Lynn never mind the album Van Lear Rose!
I've just googled it and read some good reviews. I think I may be parting with some of my hard earned student loan.
Thanks for the tip.
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TTTT just in from trying to get my brain stretched and funnily enough the topic tonight was the media and how they affect peoples thinking.
I saw the shirt on Celtic minded and it will look good. I hope it brings some comfort to the young boys family. This type of thing makes us a wee bit different from other clubs.
EDB I iwll never be able to listen to the tune again without thinking of this tradegy. Everyone I ahve sent it to has came back with the same feelings.
Martin and the Bhoys my thoughts are with you. I also lost a loved one nearly 11 years ago and someone said to me that the pain goes away but the memories never fade. I dont always agree with the first bit but definately agree with the second.
God bless
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Oops, madmitch.
We should have gone ot the day after we sold Stan and bought, I don't know, six million pounds worth of curtains and a few coffee tables?
I worked in that office once as well. I was happy that the coffee tables I had would do us while I thought about how best to improve the whole ensemble (Kojo's ed-can you have half an ensemble?) But still we bought he curtains.
Let's see what happens in January, shall we?
But in terms of numbers, not value, we are now a selling club. True.
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Chennaiseabird
Probably something about you never buying a round!
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Arctic Monkey
Hard Earned Student Loan is a good example of that rare beast, a four word oxymoron.
If you contact me (email on my profile) m=aybe I can save you some loan.
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My question for the board would be “How on earth did you manage to improve the quality of the playing staff despite spending peanuts this summer, while at the same time convincing just about everybody, including the red tops, that you were spending millions?” It’s been quite a conjuring trick.
I estimate the total expenditure on transfer fees was about £8.5m. The total income from transfer fees was about £7.9m. Net expenditure, therefore, is a mere £0.6m.
CaldwellNo Fee
Naylor 0.6m
Graveson2.0m
Jarosik 2.0m
Sno 0.15m
Riordan 0.15m
V of H 3.6m
Miller No Fee
Total 8.5m
Camara No Fee
Varga 0.3m
Keane No Fee
Petrov £6.5m
Wallace 0.6m
Dublin No Fee
Hartson 0.5m
Total £7.9m
I can only guess as to the likely weekly wage bill for each of these two groups of players but I would expect that it is relatively unchanged. My guesses…
Caldwell10k
Naylor 10k
Graveson25k
Jarosik 25k
Sno 5k
Riordan 10k
V of H 25k
Miller 15k
Total 125k
Camara 10k
Varga 10k
Keane 35k
Petrov 30k
Wallace 5k
Dublin 15k
Hartson 25k
Total 130k
In summary, it is probably fair to say that the overall position has seen an extremely modest net expenditure, though it is possible that the Club have actually reduced costs this year in regard to transfer fees and players wages.
Don’t get me wrong though…this is not a criticism. That Gordon Strachan, Peter Lawell et al have managed to improve the team and reduce its average age significantly at the same time without damaging the Club’s financial standing is nothing short of remarkable. This is despite losing players of the calibre of Petrov & Keane.
All this leaves me scratching my head though. The burning issue for most supporters right now is the question of whether or not Shaun Maloney will pen a new contract. Naturally, I am as desperate as the next person to see him do so. I have great faith in Peter Lawell when it comes to handling these delicate negotiations as the achievements outlined in the earlier part of this post would not have been possible without his talent. I am confident for another reason though...the money is available because I have demonstrated already that the much vaunted big spend that never was has yet to materialise.
Once Arsenal had decided that young Fabregas was the best diamond they had mined since Henry, what did they do? They handed him an 8 year contract. Drive a bargain Peter by all means, but if Maloney walks out the door it will be a huge disappointment and a huge mistake. He is now our most valuable asset following the departure of Stan Petrov. I doubt that Shaun is demanding to be the top earner at the club. I doubt also that his expectations are outwith the current wage structure. Crucially, unlike Petrov, he doesn’t seem particularly anxious to leave. A wage that reflects the player’s ability and future worth to the team is well within the Club’s means. Make it happen Celtic.
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EDB
Yes, scrubbed for scurrilous dishonesty before I sue for libel or slander, or both.
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Madmitch
A bit soon to label us net sellers this season as we still have the January transfer window to enjoy. Our most valuable asset insisted on departing so not much more could have been done at that point. Until that deal was finalised we could not be sure what funds would be coming in so other than the purchsases of JVOH and TG I am happy we did not splash out before we had properly considered our options.
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Evenin all.
Martin42....My thoughts and sympathies are with you and yours.
This coming Sunday sees the 1st anniversary of the tragically early passing of a very dear friend and Seville travelling companion. In my my more melancholic moments, I weep for him still.
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Madmitch,
Your views are always pretty consistent but this time it appears to me that you are suggesting that Celtic have all this outstanding money but are refusing to part with it?
I personally think that Celtic's transfer business this transfer window was outstanding for the following reasons:
1) We sold an unhappy player for top dollar. In previous years, these people have left for nothing, Chris Sutton the classic example.
2) We have invested in 3 "blue chip players" (copyright PL) in JVOH,TG & JJ.
3) Planned for the future with signing Sno,Riordan & Wilson.
4) Sold fringe players for almost £1m (thanks again RK!!)
This is excellent business which is not to be scorned at but for some reason you choose to not give credit where it is due.
Yes, I accept the share issues have helped to finance Lennoxtown and reduce debt but a lot of this is down to DD and the willingness of our support to get behind our club.
We don't have the TV money that the EPL has available but the board have been able to combine strengthening the squad as well as reducing the debt which is a helluva balancing act in my opinion.
Not that he needs any help from me but it is also time to get off Paul67's back as his opinion of the accounts is just that, his opinion.
You have your opinion which is also good to hear and your views are always interesting and welcome but can't you find it within you to at least admit that the board are spending the money wisely??
Discybhoy
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chennaiseabird
Email duly sent.
Thanks
Thedaveybhoy
Good post.
It just underlines the great job that Gordon and Peter have done for Celtic.
See how quickly I change my tune?!
Fickle? You betcha!
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Meanwhile, onto more mundane matters.
Madmitch.... why the rush to buy for buyings sake? This pathetic moniker of "a selling club" is nothing more than people's perception. Maybe I'm mistaken but didn't PL and the manager both publicly state that offers were made to players to come and join the party, but that these offers were rebuffed. I have said in the past and I reiterate...both Peter Lawell and Gordon Strachan have my complete confidence,both as a fan and a shareholder.
After all, rush to spend £12m and what do you get...Tore Andre Flo?
Incidentally, where is he now?
Not that I really care, mind.
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Can anyone post a link to the
proposed Jungle Bhoys banner for Lisbon of the young Hungarian player?
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thedavybhoy
Your JJ figure is a bit high.
My guess was less than £1mill, €1mill?, plus a challenge match.
WGS stated that we had been net sellers during the transfer window. I think we are £600K approx to the good.
Andycol
It was often stated that we would buy no matter what happened to SP.
We have been sold business plan that seemingly supports net player investment to enhance our youth policy.
Consequently according to this alternative view we had no need to wait on the whims of SP.
However the evidence of the second half of August suggests that this was not the case.
Therefore a lot of work needs to be done in January before I believe the statements from the board at face value.
My main worry at the moment is the fact that the musings of the "Careinthecommunity" CSC suggest that for SM read SP of 12 months ago. He was worked towards the door over a period of months and was put in a position where he had no-where else to go but out.
His attitude and mood swings played their part but he was manouvered up to the door by club economics.
Consequently SM vs PL may have all the gory fascination of a fight between an anaconda and an alligator. Good viewing but don't really cares who wins.
PL - SM will agitate for a move after 12 months / another good season. He will then be sold.
SM - He will get his money then he will be sold in the summer so as not to cause too much disruption in the dressing room with his big wage.
Therefore PL has to take most of the blame for letting this no-win situation develop, a deal at £15K pw should have been possible with top ups for Scotland starts to help SM keep up with KM.
Consequently if the figures now being quoted are TG sized then SM has shot his bolt. Good player, soon will be great but in footballing terms he is made for the club and the club is made for him. Move elsewhere and I hope the money makes up for the lack of memories.
Doesn't he know that another promising wide player with his heart in the right place will soon be coming onto the market?
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Chennaise-
You were correct-
it was a bad word that EDB used.....
but I think I missed it.......
Celtic Victories At Ibrox and a draw....
Martin,Paul and Kevin-you have my thoughts.
noel.
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Full credit to the Jungle Bhoys.
Perhaps we could leave a banner with every Champions League ground we visit.
Do we pass it on across the stands of fans accompanied with a Walk On?
Who needs blogs, emails and texting when you can send a Jungle Bhoys banner?
I hope the Celtic Museum is collecting them.
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Martin, Paul, & Kevin thinking of you and yours tonight.
WizardofOz a prayer for your good friend also.
seanbhoy no doubt someone will link it, its on the celtic supporters assoc website as well as jungle bhoys
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At 4:40 PM, McGraininSpain said…
http://football.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1929825,00.html
moving story of Irish legend, Paul McGrath
____________
Many thanks McGraininSpain, great read. He is a top man.
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SeanBhoy as requested
strip
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EDB
Noel and I demand to know the word. Get on to Noel's blog and tell us.
madmitch
What a depressing view of the world that is. I'm not suggesting it's yours, but if it is, commiserations. I just hope and believe it's wrong.
And yes, he knows about the other wide player. We all do.
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WizardofOz / Discybhoy
We went after 3 players and got none of them.
2006 = Financial success.
2006 = Asset management failure.
Three big signings with an average age of 28.5
We are playing well but we have gaps at RB, LB and probably CB (difficult call as BB is being sidelined for a sale in Jan).
MF limitations are being hidden by NL's Indian summer and ES's precocious talent.
Plan A = Failed
Plan B = Struggling to take-off
Plan C = Chugging along, but for how long?
Plan Z = PT gets a cheer from the home support
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Historyreader
The banners aren't cheap.
I may be wrong but I'm sure it is just The Jungle Bhoys alone that pay for them. Indeed full credit must go to them not only for the young Hungarian player one but for the many others they have paid for.
We all apprecaite them and take photos but it is a small amount of people that spend their money getting them produced.
Giving one to every CL team we play sounds great but too expensive for a fans group.
Maybe if the club or more fans provided money it would be possible.
The above may actually be incorrect and the club do provide money to the Jungle Bhoys but the donation link on their website makes me think otherwise.
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Thanks guys and girls(s).
Zbyszek, I think my email got through to your daughters address, but it bounced back from you again.
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Madmitch-
"midfield limitations" is waaaaaaay off the mark.
Jarosik
Riordan
Thompson
Quinn
Ferry
Grant
are all choking to get a chance in the Celtic midfield.
But they can't .........
yet.
noel.whoagreeswithJamesForrestonthefuture.
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Greenlion Cheers!
I think we should all make a donation. Paul, would be nice if you suggested our support for this tremendous gesture?
SB
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My dear friend, Daveybhoy,
You have penned a very worthwhile and interesting diary, on the the comings and goings, that have taken place in creating the present Celtic Cast o' Characters...
Howevvvvvvvvvvvvvaaaaaaaaaaahhh!!
Ye just knew that wiz comin',didn't ye?
You were wrong when you utilized the Petrov Treasure, in your calculations, concerning monies spent.
There were already nestling in the pockets of Messrs. Lawell and Strachan...the already Budgeted sum of 7 Million pounds, compliments of the generous Celtic Board.
That nice little amount took care of the Summer shopping.
News to you? Mebbe so,mebbe so.....
Sure looks thata way!
Not ONE PENNY of the Petrov Windfall has been used......so far!
Remember, there are one or two new imports to be funded...come January .
So...... Celtic, have the necessary wherewithal to pursue the additions that are sorely needed in their pursuit of Euro Glory!
Hail! Hail!
Kojo.
Funny I thought everybody knew about this..... ask Sir Paul...he knows.
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Shug-
The White Stripes-
Seven Nation Army
noel.
-
Hi Paul and martin42
Long time absent poster.
Breaking my duck to acknowledge your sad anniversary and reasure that a prayer has indeed been said.
Greekster
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Madmitch....does the sun ever shine in your world?
Your rather blinkered opinion of midfield limitations does you no favours.Neither does your cheap shot at Paul Telfer.There are enough players waiting for their midfield chance, who,when they get it will come good for us. I am confident of that.
You say we went for three and got none.Was that because of their reluctance or ours? Had they come, we would now be net spenders.
On a financial front, would that have made you happy?
On a playing front, would we any better off?
Life is full of ifs, buts and maybes.
What matters is the here and now.That is not a shortsighted view, it is realism.
In the words of the prophet Bobby McFerrin, "Don't worry, be happy"
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Martin Prayers on there way.
God Bless you and the boys.
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Noel
That would be the SEVEN Nation Army.
DO DO DO DO DO DOOO.
-
Shug-
no.
it's.....
Dum dum dum dum dum DUM DUUUUUM
noel.whomightbebettergoingtobedbutiswaitngforPablotocomeon.
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Martin42,
My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family tonight.
Lubo.
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Sir Paul,
While I am on the subject...
I suppose I shall have to explain why there were a delay in the completion of the Mr. Gravesen Deal?
Heck! Why not!
The Mr. Gravesen deal could not be successfully put to bed...until....
Mr. Petrov's transfer to Aston Villa had be successfully clinched..
thereby.......
Releasing the 28,000 Pounds weekly stipend,of which he(Mr.Petrov, that is) was the ungrateful recipient.
It turned out to be a very close call.
But, Martin duly came thro' and saved the day!
In retrospect, I personally.... wish that the Mr. Gravesen deal had not been consumated,after all.
I do not have very good feelings......SO FAR..... (which could change...Hopefully)...
in regard to Mr. Gravesen's palid performances.....up to the present.
We shall shall keep our powder dry,in readiness, before submitting our final verdict.... but stand by.
Kojo.
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Kojo
Yes the purchases came before the big sale, but was the sale already a given anyway? Maybe's I, maybe's no. I don't pretend to know.
I do know that this doesn't alter the facts thus far in terms of net sales and expenditure. I would be delighted if your prediction of future expenditure were accurate provided it is spent wisely of course.
However, if Maloney walks then your confidence will look a tad misplaced to me. Let's hope not eh?
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Noel
Do bee do bee do
Bee do bee
Do bee do bee do
What could be stranger than that? In the night?
