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tmc-2007 is the[an?]answer to your question re fullback cover.
On the books we had-4'proper'fullbacks-Wilson,Naylor,Djoumbe and the Telfmeister.We also had players who could play fullback if selected to do so by the manager-Mcmanus,O'dea and Caldwell.
The cover may have been thin,but it was there.
When we were playing 3-5-2 under MoN we could be embarrassed if teams pulled the central defenders wide[think Porto away,or even worse wee Peter Lovenkranz]but he did unearth the best fullback we've had recently in Didier Agathe.
From my'G.O.D'position as lanterne rouge on the last thread
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one of the ( many ) joys of supporting Celtic, is that suddenly you have 'ownership' of other teams.
So we're all Japan supporters now too.
By the way Paul, hows about a wee article looking at the broader implications of Naka's time at Celtic ? There's much pub talk about how much Celtic are making in Japan, but it'd be good to clarify how much of this is the uninformed speculation of a drunk fhan in McChuil's, and how much of it is actually true.
C'mon Naka - the Green Ninja !
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Don't suppose the Japan game's onTV?
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http://www.jinkysoars.co.uk/images/picterloans.jpg
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A couple of Naka hat-tricks but a dodgy defence sends them home early - that would be ideal (as long as we have no plans to buy a japanese defender anyway..).
Paul, any nice wee rumours you'd care to share with us? I'm cursing all the people who have slated the rumour sharers over the last couple of years when transfers don't materialise - it seems to have led to a drought of transfer whispers. Any rumours that you definitely think can be knocked on the head..? ie is my bet that we'd sign Saviola as ludicrous as it seems (even to me)? Is Bellamy definitely off the menu? Has the Appiah ship definitelty sailed? Any gossip at all to make a Monday more interesting?
LGS
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Kitalba @ 11.23,
I have just read back on your posts and, for the life of me,can't find anything to be offended about.
Perhaps I should try harder. I often find that offence is not usually given, but rather it is taken , by some who are waiting to be offended. As someone with an Italian background, I am well used to stereotypical remarks about Italian tanks, etc.
Keep up the good work as I enjoy your posts and share the joy that comes with being a Celtic supporter.
There are ample opportunities to whinge about Governments, employers and authority in general, rather than constantly looking for reasons to attack something we claim to love.
09/07/07 12:36
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Druiddude, Tom the Tim
I ask that you refer to my post at the end of the last thread.
Paul,
my hope is that Shunsuke scores a screamer of a winner in the final.
He deserves it.
We'll get by without him for a couple of weeks.
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dbbia
Doumbe was signed because Wilson was injured long term and Telfer was ready to go and work on his handicap! I think having Telfer, Wilson and Naylor was ok - at least until Wilson was out long term. Which of course could happen again!
Given that we have Wilson and Naylor with the 3 players you listed still there then I'm not as terrified about the lack of cover. Certainly I'd be more worried if we did get cover it was JJPD shaped! Now if we signed Massimo Oddo I'd be chuffed, I may even settle for Fabio Grosso! 6 foot tall full backs are the way forward!
Spot on with Agathe, in fact with him at right back and Jackie Mac at left back we were settled for a while. Neither were natural full backs and were square pegs who exceeded all expectations. Cover for them is too terrifying to even mention.
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Can I ask about Cuellar Paul? He played for Numancia before Osasuna so how has he played 64 career league games? Or did I read wrongly? Havnt read the other replies yet.
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Tom the Tim
both heart felt thanks and again condolences.
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Kitalba
I'm with you. Let Shunsuke enjoy the pleasure he gets from playing for his national side and play a blinder in evry game up to and including the final.
And let us sign the quality creative midfielder that we need anyway, so we don't miss him too much.
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Japan 1 - Qatar 0
61' N. Takahara
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Doumbe was gash, cannot see what people seen in him. Ok a little harsh but he was mister average, Lennon bet for pace on a number of occassions (don't know where the talk of him being rapid came from), his attacking play was stinted, positional play simply poor and when he tackled it was usually on through a slide tackle where he's basically fall down and stick a leg out.
Not for me I'm afraid.
Also think we missed Telfer when he left. Not my favourite player in the world but he was solid at the back.
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Mrs c is out here for a week or so next week. I wonder how she'd feel about a couple of days in Vietnam.
Embdy got a fixture list? Embdy like to ask her for me?
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chennaiseabird,
I don't want to go overboard too soon but I really do think we have one of the best potential, world class midfielders I've seen in all my days of watching football.
Scot Brown reminds me of a cross between Billy Bremner and dare I say it...........Souness.
I know it's early but I the passion, the ability and the determination are all there to see.
Shunsuke Nakamura.........Sublime within (or regardless of) his physique.
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Some of Nakamura's passing and one-touch football is sublime. He is head and shoulders above anyone else on the park.
The Aussie commentators are singing his praises.
He really does look fit and sharp, especially up top.
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where are you guys watching the game? is it ony SKY or freeview?
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I see toulouse are preparing an offer to take Gravesen off our hands. stated they would be happy to match his 40k wages.
Can't see celtic turning this down, and after watching Gravesen the other night I think he'd be interested as well. Against Basle he looked hungry for about 20 mins, then watched Scott Brown play a blinder in the second half and decided he had enough.
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Paul et all, I think that we need to give Naka a proper break at some point soon, perhaps a month off. I know that this will be difficult with the pre qualifying for the Champs League and other fixtures but I feel that this is important in two respects. Firstly it would ensure that we would have a reftreshed and energetic Naka when required and it would also demonstrate to other potential "Star" signings that we are a club that really looks after it`s players and could enhance our chances of attracting big signings.
I think this needs to be done rather than give Naka an extra couple of days off here and there throughout the season.I think this approach will pay dividends in the long run.
What do you and the other posters think??
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Japan 1 Qatar 1
88' S. Quintana
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FT Japan 1 - 1 Qatar
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Hanif, Celtic have not released figures on what they have made from Japan, however, I understand the tour last summer went significantly towards paying his transfer fee.
Lynnsgreen, nothing substantial to report.
Wee_paul, someone beat you to that correction.
Toomebridge Bhoy, comment deleted, language violation.
Not a great result for Japan. They have the UAE and then the hosts to play next.
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Malone_86_.
Your views on JJPD are clear, concise and I would think fairly immovable.
Personally I think he did more than a good turn in his appearances(few that they were) and in fact gave us a real overlapping option similar to Paul Telfer, but this time with the ability to cross the ball (and actually score in the cup final).
I don't particularly recollect him getting beaten for pace, but there again I am not sure that I have known any full back to 'not' get caught out.
So to put my view:
Doumbe was anything but gash: I can readily see what people seen in him.
He was better than average.
His attacking play was supportive, creative and positive.
His positional play was, (for someone in a new club, with new team-mates, and under extreme pressure to both do well personally and satisfy the demands of thousands of harsh critics) better than could be expected and also demonstrated a sense of maturity which is a big plus with some of the modern day footballers.
I agree that he did slide tackle, but having said that the best exponents of that skill are usually the guys you want around when ever backs are against the wall. Think Didier and his recovery abilities.
A well hooked slide tackle (Bobby Murdoch was a master of the art) not only regains possession but puts the opposition on the wrong foot by changing defence to attack, usually with a wide open wing in front of the successful tackler.
Jim Brogan was another top class exponent although Jim in his enthusiasm sometimes despatched his opponent to the red cinder track.
As an aside, I remember Jim B playing a full game for Scotland v England having broken a leg bone early in the game. Is my memory playing tricks or were those guys hewn from hardwood of a sort now sadly extinct?
So having presumably watched the same games, suffered the same thousand deaths and soared to the same atmospheric heights my conclusion is the opposite side of the coin.
JJPD would have done for me, and while I have no real inside info, I would logically draw the conclusion that his price exceeded his value.
Having said that I agree that we did miss Paul Telfer.
Players with grit and character are as oases in a desert, and we need them sometimes more than the wilting wallflowers who whinge, moan, and head for the treatment table at the first sign of a bruise.
So I suppose that differences in opinion make the world go round, although I must admit that I can't even see the logic in that old maxim!
Hail hail
Estadio
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Qatar??
Is Qatar not in Africa?
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For info.
Tickets for the Newcastle game went on sale today on the NUFC website.
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Sadly JJPD is gone, this is a fact we have to deal with wetehr we loved him hated him or didnt care. Now we need to find ourselves some new (Idealy young) LB and RB players for cover, and I am confident that we will achive this. By way of transfer rumours, Fulham right back Volz has been tossed a round the old rumour mill recently
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Jin Brogan.Now there was a man of steel!!!
Was that England game an evening KO at Wembley?
He used to own the Florida Park near Hampden and I saw him clear the bar a few times of various mountebanks footpads and darnelists!!!
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Estadio
As always a literal oasis.
I, too, remember back in the pre substitution days Bobby Murdoch breaking an arm or a wrist whilst playing a winters game at Celtic Park. (I think it was against Dundee around 1966) I remember him fighting off, I think, Neil Mochann(?) who was trying to lead him from the field.
He stayed on till the end.
That was the way we were brought up to play football. Never let the git know he hurt you.
I remember playing in a particularly nasty game in Manchester where an opponent punched my back so hard he put a rib through one of my lungs. Believe me, I’m not boasting, but after the application of the ubiquitous freezing sponge, I was trying to get back on the field even though I couldn’t get the breath to speak a word. It’s the way it once was.
Two days later I drove myself from Manchester to Glasgow to see Celtic Reserves beat their reserves. It was worth the perceived pain.
As I said it’s the way it once was for all of us.
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Estadio
I did say gash was harsh but I still maintain he was a very average player.
Agathe was an excellent slide tackler I agree but Doumbe's had no conviction or strength behind them.
Maybe it was due to him still settling into the team but he seemed to hesitate going forward when he should be attacking and then being out of position up field somewhere when he should have been back defending.
I would have be OK with him as cover and only cover but think we could get someone of equal or better ability on a bosman rather than pay the £700,000(?) that was agreed between the clubs.
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In October 1953 Sean Fallon broke his collarbone playing against Hearts.He was given a sling to wear and played out the last 20 minutes.
His injury meant that the captaincy,for what was a double winning season,went to Jock Stein.
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Benny
Qatar borders Saudi Arabia to the north-east. They seem to have good 'Unders' teams as do Bahrain for countries with tiny populations.
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I thought the Persian Gulf area was in Afica but I am wrong its in Asia
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Kitalba from earlier
I haven't seen much of Scott Brown in the last couple of years but he does seem to have come on a bit in subtlety from the December night he literaly kicked us out of the CIS cup at Easter Road. And his performance against Basel was hugely encouraging.
I was also heartened by that through ball from Aiden to Zurawski in the game against Berne. The speed and inciseveness of pass is something we need more of from Aiden.
And yet...and yet...the chances still weren't flowing. Whether it's a creative midfielder we need, or just a stronger platform to let or creative players perform on, is Gordon's problem.
Whatever, if we can get the missing piece, and maybe it's Donati, we'll be less dependent on Naka.
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steelica
From the last thread.
You were dissapointed with Scott Cuthbert's performance against Costa Rica but, in his defence, he was being played as a right back, to accomodate Considine and O'Leary/Kenneth. Having said that, he is a better player than he showed in this tournament.
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RE. Asian Cup
Lets not underestimate Japan's next opponents. Years ago, when I was a student I went to a few drunken parties, and I learned that playing Qatar isn't easy.
( I'd get my coat if they'd let me in the house...)
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SFTB-Your Acadian drifting meant you missed Al Green in Edinburgh.
He and his band of young blades were in great form-it takes great talent,and greater hard work,to make brilliance seem effortless.
Anyways,great excernment at work as a tree has come down in the car park,trapping 2 cars underneath.Luckily they were empty at the time but it has meant summoning Jocky,the one-eyed handyman,with his chainsaw.The combination of his lethal weapon and glass eyed stare is straight out of Roger Corman.
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Bernd Schuster presented as new manager of Real Madrid this lunchtime.
Michael Laudrup, the best footballer in his family (and that includes his dad, who was second best), announced as Schuster's replacement at Getafe.
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And his mum,who was third best..
What will Schuster have to do at Real to be judged a success?The last managers they have had who won La Liga,or the EC,have both been given the sailors'farewell for their troubles.
What is Spanish for Generation of Domination?
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DBBIA :- As far as I know it's "un sueño vacío"
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DBBIA
Interestingly, among this afternoon's platitude, Schuster said he didn't just want to win trophies, but to have his team produce exciting football on the park.
Do you think he reads CQN?
Spanish for GoD is generación de dominio, I suppose, though I don't think I've ever heard or read it.
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It's definitely not un sueño vacío, as Edward suggests.
He's getting mixed up with the phrase for 'moonbeam'.
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Paul67.If anyone is thinking of going to QPR they better get their tickets now if they have'nt already got them.I was in this morning and struggled to get 4 seats together,I think I got the last batch of 4,there's still tickets but their going fast.
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CelticFirst ;- Damn, you mean they aren't the same, they do sound alike :-)
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Edward
So we will have un sueno vacio and you will have a trophyroom vacuo.
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SFTB :- Only until the end of the season, though I suppose the way finances are at Ibrox just now we may make a bid for your silver polish that will no longer be needed :-)
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Edward
Your only use for silver polish would be for the teaspoons in the boardroom. And I'd count them carefully after Sir Minty's finished with them.
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dbbia
I have missed Al Green and Smokey Robinson, who is also playing this week. Bob Dylan called him America's greatest poet but he was probably stoned at the time.
Whilst in Canada, I was offered tickets for a Sonny Rollins concert but who wants to hear a 76 year old play the sax? And I do not suit either a polo neck or beret.
philistines csc
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Tinytim,
my apologies for not getting back to you sooner,life got in the way again.
Let's get one thing straight,me saying what you post on here is "all mouth after the fact,and no balls before it",is in no way a personal attack on you,nor is it hostile towards you.
It is in reference to what you post here,pure and simple.
And it is an extremely accurate description of your posts when it comes to our manager and his signings.
Instead of retreating into"you are not being very nice to me" nonsense.
Why don't you answer the criticisms I made of your initial post?
I will repeat them again.
Why do you you bring up players who Gordon Strachan did NOT sign,to try to make the point that he has failed in the transfer market.
I will remind you,in case you have gorgotten under the hail of personal abuse I have apparently hurled in your direction.
Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink(see sometimes I can decipher your gibberish)and Quinton Fortune.
And I will repeat,both of these players WERE signed by managers whom you have stated on more than one occassion,would be better at the Celtic manager's job than the current incumbent.
You patently have an issue with Gordon Strachan being the manager,which has nothing to do with his actual capabilities.
And some of the stuff you convince yourself he has done to prove this point is fantasy in the extreme.
A couple of your more recent comments.
We need a right back,
and something along the lines of this would be a "crime" if this was not addressed.
I will assume,by the tone of your previous rants against him,that this crime would be perpetrated by Gordon Strachan(regardless of such trifling things as price,availability,and other such trivialities).
Firstly to your full back demands,we currently have a recognised right back and left back in the team for the first time since digital watches were cool.Both signed by Gordon Strachan.
Our right back,was played on the left in his first season,and done a very reasonable job,the following season,he was badly injured.He is young and will only improve.
Mark Wilson is his name.
Our left back,as far as I can see,is one of the best buys of last year,or any other year for that matter
Lee Naylor would be his name.
And we are still awaiting news on Doumbe.
As your comment was in reference to a right back,I would assume you wish one of a higher calibre than Mark Wilson?
If so,could you make a suggestion or two,as to who this could be?
Taking into consideration,of course,that Chelsea,is the only team,to my knowledge,who actually have two good right backs.
Or are you suggesting a a player for cover for this position.
If so,what calibre of player are we going to get,who will happily join us,in the knowledge he will be on the bench barring injury or loss of form?
As for a 30 goal a season striker,here is a list of Celtic strikers(apart from Henrik)who I recall scoring more than 30 goals in a season in the last 30 years.
Brian McClair and Charlie Nicholas.
I would suppose Gordon Strachan would be a failure,or perhaps a criminal,even,if he didn't manage to do what any Celtic manager apart from Wim Jansen,has been able to do since Billy McNeil,in his first term in charge.
Wonder why the bar seems to be set so high for our current manager?
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EdU-you scamp!Even an unreconstructed monoglot like me knows the Spanish for moon is La Luna.
I think what you were trying to do is reduce my chances of spending quality time with either Senorita Penelope Cruz,or Senorita Selma Hayek`�)
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SFTB :- I'd be happy to lose the family silver if it meant Sir David moving on and someone coming in who would put money into the club. My attitude towards him is best summed up by the quote from Oliver Cromwell. "YOU HAVE BEEN SAT TO LONG HERE FOR ANY GOOD YOU HAVE BEEN DOING. DEPART, I SAY, AND LET US HAVE DONE WITH YOU. IN THE NAME OF GOD, GO!."
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DBBIA :- Can I have the one you don't pick?
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Edward old bhear, of all the people to quote on this site.
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edward.
Are you sure about that quote.
Sounds like a Gordon Brown to Tony Blair quote.
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paul67
here is an interesting one for you...
Steven Naismith's agent is widely reported to be Andrew McCormick.
McCormick, albeit an accountant himself with Davidson and Workman Charted Accountants, is registered as an agent with M.A.D. SPORTS MANAGEMENT LIMITED Company Number SC197671
The directors of this company are Andrew McCormick and none other than
MCCOIST, ALISTAIR MURDOCH
Surely this must break some SFA rules?
Do the media know about this and are just keeping it quiet?
(I have checked all of this information with Companies House.)
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CelticFirst :- I was under the impression he was an equal oppertunities killer, I know I'll be corrected if wrong but wasn't one of his big Irish massacres (Wexford?) a massacre of Protestants? normally I quote Marcus Aurellius but couldn't find anything suitable.
OldTim67 :- If he has half the spin of his predecessor I'm sure it won't be long before he claims it :-)
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sftb-Al Green v Smokey-I think with Revd Green you definitely get the tension betwen the sacred and the profane[like CQN?] which Tamla seems to lack. I think TM ended up making records which white teenagers would buy,whereas the likes of Stax/Atlantic sounded much'blacker',and more mature.
C1st-just because OC said it,doesn't make it any less effective.If the Devil sometimes has the best tunes,he might sometimes have the best lyrics as well..
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malone86
I agree doumbe was (average) and that probably why we may have offered him an offer he could refuse.
wilson looked nearer the player for right back the other night, but I think its times we shelled out some real money for a full back. otherwise spending fortunes for midfielders is a pointless excercise
hail hail
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John, you cannot beat honest research.
Well done.
I am 100% sure the media know nothing about this (see honest research above).
If McCoist is only a director, not a registered agent, no one is acting illegally. Fifa rules forbid agents being employed by football clubs.
Mr McCoist may work for this company in a tea making capacity, anything more and he would be in breach.
The Fifa rule is in place to ensure that transparency is maintained when advisers advise, otherwise an agent may be tempted to promote his own club.
This is a mucky business, no wonder Kilmarnock are sticking to their guns.
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Paul,
Bizarrely, McCoist's registered address as director is in Bishopton, while most other directorships are Bridge of Weir.
However, there is almost certainly an innocent reason for this......
Incidentally, Ian Durrant is a previous director of said sports management company.
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EdU -A quotation from MAurelius for you,to bear in mind the next time you're posting on here after your boys have taken one hell of a beating-
'To be like the rock that the waves keep crashing over.It stands unmoved and the raging of the sea falls still around it'.
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Kitalba/Tom the Tim
Thanks for your postings..response at end of previous topic.
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john , i don't think i'd want to be a director of this business.....unless they have lodged them in the last couple of days, the accounts are 2 years overdue and showed an insolvent position the last time they were lodged....
...and his partners a CA....
...accounts long overdue, and showing an insolvent position....now let me think ...where would ally have learned about that one...
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Didn't McCoist get kicked out of his house in BoW by his wife, or one of his other romantic entanglements?
Surely as a company director McCoist has a fiduciary duty to act in the best interests of the company. This must outwiegh his responsibility to Rangers where he is, in legal terms, simply an employee.
So if it is Naysmith's best interest to go to a rival club, then McCoist must back that if it makes best sense for the company.
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GorJ-he was ejected by his spouse who subsequently took up with the gardener[allegedly]
Or as Marvin Gaye might have put it'Wherever I lay my black binliner full of clothes
That's my home'
DBBIA/JamesJamersonCSC
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On the subject of suitability, our old friends St Pauli have just been promoted to Bundesliga 2. The reward for the manager ?.......sacked because he doesn't have the coaching qualifications required by Bundesliga rules.
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The Mc.Coist- Naismith possible connection sounds like a case for Super Terry O'Neill.
I suppose Lex Keevins is off the air at the moment.
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Barcabhoy, :-)
The Naismith business is a midsummer treat for financially inclined sorts like me.
I see Walter has complained that Kilmarnock have made their bids public. A tactical mistake.
The terms of said bids have been leaked today, though are not in the public domain yet. Ooch, this one is going to sting the already listing reputation of Zsa Zsa.
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Is this the same MAD Sports Management that sponsored an award for them at their 9 in a row special events?
http://www.rangers.premiumtv.co.uk/page/News/NewsDetail/0,,5~1028524,00.html
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quote.
There's no in between-you're either good or bad.
We were in between'.
Gary Liniker.
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quote.
'Football's not like an electric light-you can't just flick the button and change from slow to quick.'
John Greig.
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quote.
'I'd like to play for an Italian club,like Barcelona'-
Mark Draper.
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kano
if your going to suggest someone elses argument (tinytim) as having little substance perhaps research better
John Hartson scored 30 goals in 04/05 1 in the CL, 25 in the league, 3 in the scottish cup and 1 in the cis cup
that was just of the top of my head
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Quote.
'It took a lot of bottle for Tony(adams)to own up'-IAN WRIGHT on his team mate's admission of alcoholism.
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wigan have had a bid of £5.3M accepted for koumas, kamara gone for £6m thats crazy money esp relative to likes of brown,naka,donati and boruc fees
i think this shoes that WGS and the management team are getting us great value in an inflated market
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Quote.
'I could'nt settle in Italy-it was like living in a foreign country.'-
Ian Rush.
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Quote.
'I'd rather play in front of a full house than an empty crowd'-
Johnny Giles
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DBBIA :- I'll keep that one in mind though I don't think I'll be needing it in the new season. I was going to look for an appropriate Aurelius quotation to answer you with but decided that "to refrain from imitation is the best revenge" ;-)
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Friends, countrymen and women, lend me your ears.
Shameless self-publicist on the tout for good music vultures.
The plain and simple truth is that I am entering or re-entering the musical arena. I dabbled when I was younger. After many years of runnning away from music I've finally started embracing it again.
The past year has seen me write and re-work around 18 songs, which I'm truly proud of. I am glad to say that others think so too. The guys at Beanscene Coffee shops have given me 10 dates across Scotland in the coming 2 months. And I'm also doing a set at the Village Acoustic Festival in the Kirkstyle Inn in Glenmavis near Airdrie this coming Saturday.
So (With the blessing of the heid blogger) I've come on to try and enlist support. I've got a myspace page and I thought if anyone was interested they could check out the songs there and if suitably impressed might join me at one of the upcoming 'gigs'. The full details are on my page.
That way those of you who are completely disinclined have no need to invent excuses etc.
WG - as most of my songs have been written after the demise of Pink Floyd you are of course exempt - coupled with the fact that Beanscene don't sell drink - I shudder to think of the turn-outs...
the page address is
www.myspace.com/garymillermusic
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Quote
'One day they'll be quoting me on CQN'
Oliver Cromwell
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Paul67 17.57,
Where you on holiday when Killie "let slip" about the first 2 bids they got from rangers?
first bid, 400k paid over 2 years.
second bid, 750k paid over 2 years.
third bid 750k paid over 2 years then another 500k payable when Naismith had played 100 games.
don't know about their forth bid.
Anyway back to all things Celtic, any good news coming our way soon?
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quote.
'One day they'll be quoting me on CQN'
reputedly a quote from Oliver Cromwell, sent in by
Tobi
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Quote.
Interviewer:
Would it be fair to describe you as a volitile player?'
DAVID BECKHAM:'Well,I can play in the centre,on the right and occasionally on the left side.'
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Quote.
'You do'nt need balls to play in a cup final.'
Steve Claridge.
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Quote.
'I always tried to put my right boot on first,and then obviously my right sock.'
Barry Venison
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Quote.
'The groin's been a little sore but after the semi-final I put it to the back of my head.'-
Michael Hughes.
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Oldtim........see Edward at 16.09.
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Quote.
'I've had 14 bookings this season-8 of which were my fault,but 7 of which were disputable.'
Paul Gascoigne.
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Quote.
'If Gabriel Amoto's shot had gone in,the result could have been different'-
Giovanni Van Bronckhorst.
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Tobi.
I added a Quote about that at 16.46.
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The next time Rangers hold a press conference, I hope one of the poodles who turn up with a pencil and a pad has the courage to ask:
"What involvement does Ally McCoist have in the sports management firm in charge of negotiating a transfer for Steven Naismith, and what response would you give to suggestions that there is a conflict of interest?"
Not complicated, is it?
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dbbia @ 17.10
The legend re Motown vs Stax/Atlanta is as you say. It was presented in the Dreamgirls musical and film, where Beyonce impersonated Diana Ross. But it's a Liberty Valance type of legend in my opinion.
Motown had an unashamed crossover music approach but Stax and Atlantic were commercial in instinct too just less successful. The legend, I'm afraid, has taken hold because only one label owner was an African American - guess which one?
Berry Gordy is currently regarded as a sell out to white tastes but that's just a fashionable revisionist view. Given time it'll be revised again. In appealing to a wider audience, he did much to help his community in their aspiration to break out of a ghetto. The more people liked the music, the harder it became for them to hate the people who made it.
The Motown sound matured in response to changing social circumstances and was allowed to be more overtly political with major artists like Edwin Starr and the Temps than was ever attempted at Stax (Latterly Isaac Hayes did his "blaxploitation" soundtracks and the Staples Singers were an honourable exception). But, even on its "light pop soul" canon, great records and singers were represented.
The Supremes- Reflections
Four Tops- Seven Rooms of Gloom & Bernadette
Temptations- Cloud 9 & Get Ready
Edwin Starr- S.O.S. & 25 miles
Jackson 5- I want you back
Martha Reeves- Heatwave
I think the legend is similar to preferring gangster rap to artists like Lauryn Hill and OutKast believing it to be a truer reflection of African American experience.
Stax was more overtly sexual compared to Motown's romanticism but it was no more "black" than it. In fact, in terms of ownership and backing musicians, the claim could be made that it was less so.
The real "black" music snobs invented Northern Soul to satisfy their perverted equation that obscurity equal quality.
I Like Motown, Stax, Atlantic and Northern Soul records but I won't have Motown misrepresented.
Motown Quick News- not lazy legends.
Now back to the fitba.
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Quote.
'I've never wanted to leave.I.m hear for the rest of my life,and hopefully after that as well.'
Alan Shearer
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ragnar
Hail Hail
Will there be any any intelligent or constructive coments in any forthcoming posts? or will it be more of the same?
" Not likely " to either.
" Oh - i'd rather be a lurker than a H.."
nb should i accept constructive comments from someone who can't spell comment.
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Quote.
'Germany are a very difficult team to play...they had 11 internationals out there today.'
Steve Lomas.
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Tom the Tim
Fine "if you forget about my cliches" - "i'll forget about yours"
The deadhorse previously used, and recently referred to as fatuous, formerly purile "hung out to etc " is now well and truly flogged.
Anyway its Monday now, and any mild anger or spleen venting at Saturday's 'Friendly fiasco' has dissipated, ( at least until this Friday )
How about, "Teddy disguised the fact that he was not a full back particularly well, especially the ten minutes he played in midfield, before the totally unpredictable, return of already substituted, Sno"
Are you happy with that? (probably not methinks)
Your right again i clearly take pre season friendlies more seriously than Gordon,
any Celtic fan would, We also don't understand their psychology either, like Gordon.
Who understands everything so well it seems he managed to over train the squad until they were so well trained "They got Nailed" in the end.
Who's a clever Gordon? me I'm just a Celtic fan, that buys in Setanta nice and early and gets disappointed, when we only go and get beat 1-4 in a friendly.
On another of your cliches ' waving the anti Gordon stick' he's too good at it himself without the need for any of my tiresome interventions.
Hail Hail
p.s. i don't think gordon would understand the psychology of a dead horse
p.p.s
is it ok if i pop back now and again, to listen to the football visionaries on here
- mister?
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SFTB-that's a very full answer!
I look forward to picking the meat off those bones over a beer sometime.
The only point I would add is that Detroit is north of the Mason/Dixon line and therefore its music,regardless of colour must be inferior to the tunes coming from South of the MDL.
As you say,back to the game.
Who will appear at rightback against the Posh?Gravesen?Riordan?
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I’m not really a facts and figures sort of person as my bank balance will undoubtedly testify to.
But seeing as the subject of the pre-eminent need for full back cover I thought I would have a look at how the defence has performed in the SPL since its foundation in 98/99.
Taking last season as a sort of benchmark of disgruntlement the 34 goals lost is really as bad as we want it to get.
But there again in 4 out of the 8 previous seasons we equalled or exceeded that amount. In the other 4 we conceded less.
In the 4 that we equalled or exceeded last years performance we won the league once .
In those seasons where we bettered the 34 goals lost, we won it 3 times.
This would suggest clearly that our defence does in fact need strengthening and while it can’t all be placed at the feet of the full backs, if the conclusion is valid then the dearth of quality is surely complicit.
But hold on just a second there Tonto!
The mean goals against over the period is 30.77 and the standard deviation over the period was +/- 5.
Last season’s deviation was just over 3 which was by no means the best, but also by no means the worst (especially as in the first two seasons we conceded more goals from 2 fewer games).
So if our defensive performance is not really that much worse than the average in seasons past, then where does the feeling of underperformance come from.
I think it stems to a great extent from the old adage that we remember defensive errors more starkly than attacking or creative failures.
For instance if we take a nifty shifty at goals scored.
The mean for the period is 89.33 and the standard deviation is circa +/- 3.
Last seasons actual deviation from the mean (we scored 65) was - circa -23.3 goals. (The season before we actually beat the mean by +4).
Now I haven’t worked out average standard deviations and medians etc, but on an initial glance I would think that while the full back concern has some foundation and definitely has to be addressed, the management and board efforts are being directed in the correct direction.
The priority issue is clearly to get the goals scored back up to where our ‘goals to chances’ ratio is boosted.
The repercussions of this are clear.
1. We apply the coup de grace early on in games,
2. The reduction in tension makes both the team and the support more confident,
3. The end result is that we score more goals.
4. Everyone then says the leave early because the game is a foregone conclusion
5. A lot of people will come on here complaining that the defence is lucky that we have a good attack.
6. Artur Boruc will go because he has little to do and that will be Gordon Strachan’s fault (this is a mildly humorous observation, so please don’t anyone take the hump).
Now back to my bank account!
Hail Hail
Estadio
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I was up at CP today and I saw some players going in from training. One looked very like young Charlie Grant. Now, if we are going to translate a midfielder into a defender, Charlie's tackling might be an advantage there. Can't see Scottish refs letting him away with it though. What with red hair, meaty tackles and a green strip, he'd be odds on for the 5 minute mark sending off.
dbbia
Was Mason a mason?
Was Dixon a di..?
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Ragnar 11.50 last thread
I don't mind people challenging my comments.I put them out there, therefore i should expect comment.
You seem to to want to insult me when you respond.
Your comment basically infers that i am stupid.
I can assure you that i am not.
I know that you disagree with my view's,however you seem to want to have a go at me personally.
I felt the same tone with a comment from Kano last week.
The likes of P8ddy have been hounded of this site.
It's seems that if you have an alternative view to the "Green tinted glasses brigade" that it is open season.
I will not go away, i am made of sterner stuff.
Please comment on my views ,but refrain from insulting me.
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Sad day when I see that Cromwell gets a meantion on a Celtic site.
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A FEW THOUGHTS
Personally, I'd rather have Roy Kean, Tommy Burns or Davie Moyes as manager. And this has nothing to do with being Celtic minded.
Gordon (as we must now call him) believes in a tippy tappy brand of football that bores me.
Bracing myself for KM running around a hell of a lot. Wondering why magic has not been moved on. Puzzling over his view that McManus and Presley are better players than O'Dea and (shock horror whisper it) Balde
Saddened that Riordan and Gravesson seem to have had personality clashes with Gordon.
Having said all that I think he still deserves to be manager for what he has achieved albeit against a very poor rangers team.
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Setting free the bears............Northern Soul was never invented. People were dancing to black rnb music well before the term ever existed. The term was used by Dave Goddin in 'Blues and Soul' magazine to describe what was being played in clubs in the north of England and just stuck.
