 Friday, August 10, 2007
Hail Hail answer to the songs debate
Today I met with representatives of Kerrydale St, Keep the Faith, The Jungle Bhoys and Celtic Minded. Among the various things discussed was our Irish heritage, how it has regularly been misrepresented in Scotland as something less than wholesome, and how many will pursue every person wearing green in an attempt to drag Celtic into the murky troubles of others. We can and must protect the reputation of Celtic and the Celtic support. Our Irish heritage is to be celebrated, as are many of Irish songs hear at Celtic Park throughout our history, not to exclude others, or to underplay that fact that we are a Scottish club, supported for over a century mainly by Scottish people, but to keep Celtic the truly exceptional club they are. We lose this aspect of our identity at the peril of the club. I have no fears for the behaviour of Celtic fans; however, microphones will be at the ready tomorrow, and for the foreseeable future, listening for a handful of Celtic supporters singing any of the add-ons which have thankfully become less evident in recent times, or overtly political songs, specifically those revelling in proscribed, or previously proscribed organisations. The group at the meeting today ask and encourage anyone attending a Celtic game to sing-up at any sign of such songs or chants with a loud ‘Hail Hail…’ We want to be an inclusive club, one at peace with our Irish heritage and one which will flourish in modern Scotland. This means ‘Athenry’, the Irish national anthem, the tricolour and the many symbols Celtic supporters have held dear for generations must remain an integral part of who we are, but just as the people of Ireland have entered a new era, Celtic fans must leave Irish politics for after match debates.
Hail Hail.....
198 Comments:
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First from Turra?
Lyrcu
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They will get us regardless, even if its one bhoy singing them.
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Been at work all week.
It's been a right cheery place at my work this week.
Why?
Seems like everyone from the media to the Rangers fans and now Falkirk fans are feeling as if we're there for the taking.
They've all forgot we've won 2 leagues quite easily. a cis cup, a scottish cup and a last 16 slot while beating Man U, Benfica and Copenhagen on the way.
To our beloved rangers fans it's as if normal service has been resumed.
The media have once again done a job on rangers.
Returning them to their throne without a ball being kicked.
Cocky rangers fans when they've won NOTHING for 2 years is quite something.
You've got to admire them!!!!
I say bring it on.
We're better when they think we're not.
Emjay
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Paul,
Good to see the server issues resolved, no thanks to PL.
Forgive me if I have not read the post correctly or if my intelligence is not picking this up right, but the last words on the post about leaving irish politics behind, are you saying for definite that our traditional songs are ok and its the add-ons that have to and should go? if that is the case there really shouold be no further discussion on this one as we all know what we have to do.
nakagod
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Kano
Are you Paul`s alter ego or are you psychic?
Doppelganger CSC
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Just watched the daily huddle on celtic tv. The presenter Ally Beggs last show apparently. He was a bit emotional at the end of the programme. he was talking about celtic fans being supportive to him when his father died, good for him and good for us. All the best to him.
Hail hail
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Bhoymolloy,
I agree. One bammer singing sectarian songs will be enough for this media to hang us.
Hence the big push this week regarding Rangers just so they'll not be accused by us of biased.
You can see it coming.
Celtic need to be ready for this.
Our answer to any accusations need to be planned and carefully handled by Celtic.
I hope Dermott, Brian and Peter have had a wee chat about what to expect from the media.
EVERYONE is waiting on us tripping up.
Maybe worth a call to Fergus McCann.
He'd know what to do.
Emjay
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Excellent stuff Paul. Totally agree. We must always be proud of our roots and we can do this without being sectarian. If people are offended by The Fields or the Anthem then that says more about them than it does about us.
I have always found it strange that we, the ones who are subject to the vast majority of the bigotry in this country, are not seen as the victims but somehow its our own fault.
It's like saying that if your skin is a different colour then you must hold some responsibilty for the racism problem. Ludicrous but thats how it seems we are treated.
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Let's just hope everybody is on their best behaviour tomorrow and for the rest of the season. WE ARE CELTIC: WE ARE MORE THAN A CLUB. Let nobody betray our legacy. The rest hate us for it.
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Paul,this is the most forthright thing I have ever heard ye say on this subject.
Ur ye trying to pre-empt some criticism?
Or is this a "semi official" line.
A line in the sand,if you will.
I really hope it is,and I hope it is a non moveable line.
Druiddude,
naw,sometimes I get things right,all by myself.
Not often,but sometimes it happens.
Maybe,i could just put it across a wee bit less heated.
But then again,that would involve me talking about tennis and golf.
Not Celtic,and what they are to me.
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Kano
I've found an Austrian team you might want to support :-)
FT SV Bad Aussee 3 - 2 Salzburg(A)
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SFTB,I know most of the European teams,but I must admit,never heard of them.
You taking the mick?
Am I allowed to say that?
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I fear that all it will take is an orchestrated, anti Celtic /Irish chant from the hosts tomorrow to inspire an inappropriate response from the moronic element amongst our support.
I fear that it will be that easy. I hope that there will be a strong representation from the groups that Paul met with today, to head off any "die for the cause" nonsense.
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I have read the Rules and they gave me cause for celebration because theoretically they offer us Celtic Fans protection they just gave us the Green Light to sing our entire reportoire and so long as we refrain from acting like green huns we will have Celtic Park Rocking now :-)
From the last thread.
Compare and contrast the treatment of Celtic and the Darnel in all forms of the fourth estate,
Could you do the same thing when they sell us the unionist story in direct comparison with the Republican Won.
Can we see a theme that unites the presentation of either of them.
Yes I think we can.
Hail Hail.
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Kano
Stevie's link creator is unavailable for the moment.
But, if you link to http://www.livescore.com/default.dll?page=home
You will find that result is true. Hope they get to knock Rapid Vienna out of their cup.
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expect a riot when rangers don't win the league
i put setanta on there and it happened to be the real radio phone in............i am away to turn it of when i hear the words "barry is the best in britian".......in a GENUINE tone
ewan says he ain't even top 5, the guy challenges him to name better
it goes like this
lampard - barry bossed him the other week
gerrard - aye maybe
fabregas - barry's much better
petrov - diver barry's miles better
carrick - £16m of nothing barry's better
scholes - past it barry's better
essien - barry is much better
i nearly wet myself laughing at this, the guy actually believed it. so imagine with this barry ferguson hw he will feel when they lose the league?!
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Kano
The link's working now:-
Austrian league
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Hail Hail! Hear Hear!
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Tom the Tim,
ye seem to have a low opinion of our away support there.
Why don't ye wait till tomorrow night?
It appears,that even the Rangers away European support can manage to keep their tongues in tact.
I am sorry you feel that way about our support.
Unlike our friend Tinytim,I believe that people "from housing schemes" are more than capable,even with a few drinks in them,of turning this whole thing 180 degrees,and watching the Falkirk fans wallow in their sectarian mire.
For if any observer,having watched the last half a dozen meetings at their midden,could only possibly come to one conclusion.
That the Falkirk fans(in the most) were some of the most bigoted,hate filled,sectarian mob of bampots you are likely to see outside of Airdrie's stadium.I will leave Rangers out of this,are they are merely victims of racism.
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merryleebhoy
Saw that too. He seemed upset at the end while Jim Craig giggled - probably not appreciating the fact that Ally was in fact in tears.
I didn't know Ally Begg was in BadBoysInc, a popular beat combo from the 90s BadBoysInc A friend told me.
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SFTB
cheers.
that's quite good.
Maybe we could use it here instead of that "socceroos" nonsense,after all they don't mind a good boot at the other team.
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paul67
a little off topic but a question on many's mind i am sure
the impending doumbe signing
Is this a concession that the scouting network has failed in the full back department? the fact we did not sign him earlier or indeed before the deadline suggests he was certainly not amongst the first choices? there can not be much more on the horizon if with still 3 weeks left in the window we have plumped for JJPD, unless we expect another full back to arrive tho gordons record on full back numbers suggests thats unlikely
i know u may say its down to value, but i would of thought part of the scouting network remit is finding players likely to be affordable otherwise they could just name all the worlds top players. so part of the scouts job is assessing realistic availability in terms of price etc and as i said is the list empty now so we go for JJPD
all the same welcome back JJPD
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stand up tall to the wind up merchants tomorrow lads..i have been getting e-mails all week from fawkirk fans they want to drop us in it...
nicely put Mr 67 pity oor club didnae have suct tact.
new posts on www.thelordofthewing.blogspot.com
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Ironic it would be if Falkirk were the ones caught tomorrow. We would still get the blame.
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SFTB,
I get the strangest feeling,now that you mention them(Rapid),that if they drew Rangers in an early round of,say,the Inter-toto cup.I would probably want Rangers to win,and progress to the prelimenary round of the UEFA cup.
I was at Parkhead,and Old Trafford.
Memorable nights,both of them.
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Kano,
Rapid Vienna v Rangers
The only fair result would be for both teams to be thrown out of the competition and banned for life following rioting by both sets of fans who sang bad songs at each other.
Celtic reserves could take their place in the next round
against racing Club.
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Kano & SFTB,
As the old saying goes, "Show me an Austrian & I'll show you a cheat..."
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The Case For The Defence:
Ladies and gentlemen, good evening and thank you for this opportunity to present my argument.
You have heard earlier from my distinguished colleague on where he (and others) think the club is going wrong. I simply disagree.
Gordon Strachan took over a club that was on its knees and with a contract situation that simply could not bridge the two regimes. Simply put, a massive clear out and rebuilding job was required - the kind of football management project normally reserved for computer games and the like! But this was far from fantasy. The Celtic support were beaten and down from a cruel loss and the squad was dying a very slow and painful death.
Yes we had the Artmedia debacle but, in the long term, that proved to be a valuable creative destruction. Celtic had two very embarrassing results that season but Mr Strachan’s Team 1 still brought home a domestic double. And we rejoiced.
Team 2 followed and so did more silverware. What other metric of success is there in the modern game? Yes, some of the displays were not vintage Celtic but we live in different times and in a culture where results and instant gratification are paramount. Our manager has been given basic rations compared to the Sainted one and has delivered on a higher level in the biggest tournament of all.
My learned friend likes to throw names around and make claims about players being inferior or not fit for purpose. In my view, the manager builds the squad to achieve his targets and if he is happy then I am happy. By the way, what other progress are we really looking for here?? Winning the European Cup??
Further, if one was to consider the names of Nakamura, Boruc, Naylor, Scott Brown, Doanti, Maloney, McGeady, Hesselink and McManus then I think it is clear to see that our manager is both shrewd in the market and an excellent developer of home grown talent. It is no secret that many players rate our manager as the finest coach they have ever worked with.
Football is changing. The SPL may not be the spectacle it could be but the level of commitment and tactical discipline is higher than at any other time. There are no free lunches in this league and our players need to earn the right to show their quality by putting in the hard graft. And graft they will. This group of players may not excite everyone but they are successful and a solid team unit. With our support, there is no doubt that they can once again scale the heights and bring home the domestic baubles.
Yes, Rangers have invested but they are playing to a very narrow strategy and they are running at higher risk than ever before. They have all their eggs in one basket. They have a solid Scottish manager who will get results but the league will be one over 38 games and our class will shine through. It does not take long to work out how a long ball team operates – thankfully we are far more developed than that. The dynamism and energy in our midfield is something to behold and I cannot be the only one who is excited to see the development of this area of the team. Heroes are not often born into hoped shirts but I can see the makings of some in this current squad.
Ladies and gentlemen, we face a difficult August where pitfalls are round every corner but we are the champions and we will arrive in every much as such. We are the favorites in every game we play this month and we should believe that in every fibre of the support.
Believe in the team, believe in the manger, and believe in our club. Success is there to be enjoyed and we shall be celebrating together again this season.
Thank you,
#8
(out of the mineshaft and looking at a clear blue sky!!)
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Paul,
Maybe we need to exercise our legendary ingenuity to create new chants and get in this top 10 list next year.
inventive chants
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Regarding the great songs debate.
If(ahem) the falkirk fans try to bate us into singing the non permitted songs. I've always beleived that fight them face on!
Walk with me, oh my Lord
Through the darkest night
And brightest day.
Be at my side, oh Lord
Hold my hand and guide me on my way.
Sometimes the road seems long,
My energy is spent.
Then, Lord, I think of you
and I am given strength.
Walk with me, oh my Lord
Through the darkest night
And brightest day.
Be at my side, oh Lord
Hold my hand and guide me on my way.
Stones often bar my path
And there are times I fall,
But you are always there
To help me when I call.
Walk with me, oh my Lord
Through the darkest night
And brightest day.
Be at my side, oh Lord
Hold my hand and guide me on my way.
Just as you calmed the wind
And walked upon the sea
Conquer, my living Lord
The storms that threaten me.
Walk with me, oh my Lord
Through the darkest night
And brightest day.
Be at my side, oh Lord
Hold my hand and guide me on my way.
Help me to pierce the mists
that cloud my heart and mind,
so that I shall not fear
the steepest mountain-side.
Walk with me, oh my Lord
Through the darkest night
And brightest day.
Be at my side, oh Lord
Hold my hand and guide me on my way.
As once you healed the lame
And gave sight to the blind
Help me when I'm downcast
To hold my head up high.
Walk with me, oh my Lord
Through the darkest night
And brightest day.
Be at my side, oh Lord
Hold my hand and guide me on my way.
Or a Song about Resistance !!! KTF
1. We shall overcome
We shall overcome
We shall overcome some day
Chorus:
Oh deep in my heart
I do believe
We shall overcome some day
2. We'll walk hand in hand
We'll walk hand in hand
We'll walk hand in hand some day
Chorus:
3. We shall all be free
We shall all be free
We shall all be free some day
Chorus:
4. We are not afraid
We are not afraid
We are not afraid today
Chorus:
5. We are not alone
We are not alone
We are not alone today
Chorus:
6. The whole wide world around
The whole wide world around
The whole wide world around some day
Chorus:
7. We shall overcome
We shall overcome
We shall overcome some day
Chorus:
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Paul
Couldn't agree more-said so on a previous post. Proud of the Irish heritage but even the streets of Belfast and Derry have moved on.
I have every confidence that the support will not succumb to baiting.
They will be waiting desperately for the most feeble excuse. I wholeheartedly agree the best way to wind them all up is a rousing chorus of Walk on Hail Hail or 4 leafed clover
Slan
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Antsman
"tho gordons record on full back numbers suggests thats unlikely"
This,is a man who,unlike his predecesor,actually has signed four,"actual" full backs in the two years he has been at Celtic.
Three of whom,can be said to have been a useful part of the team,and the fourth,appears to be getting signed soon.
Yet all he gets for his "full back history" is abuse for using Ross Wallace,whom he turned into a valuable transfer out,if nothing else.
Not,having two useful fullbacks on our books for the first time since sideburns were the in thing,or even,signing somebody up for cover(who most people seemed to want,well,after it appeared he had gone,anyway)for a small fee.
Oh and not to mention two excellent keepers for the first time since eh...
well you tell me.
He isn't that bad you know.
We could be playing more"attractive" football.
But,that is it,everything else,apart from that,is really good.
Gie the guy a break.
Already,the"decision time" for him staying is being moved from the end of this season(again),to actually after the first Rangers game of the season.
Hardly surprising when you post,as fact,that our manager somehow has a problem identifying and signing full backs.
Who needs McNee and his ilk?
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Kano,
I am not deluded into thinking that we do not possess an element of mindless morons within our support, who have in the very recent past, betrayed the reputation of the Celtic support.
The recent outpouring of gash at Newcastle was blamed on responding to the home fans taunts.
Don't fall into the trap of assuming that because someone claims to be a Celtic supporter that they are naturally imbued with a sense of fair play and justice.
They should be ,but, I'm afraid some are not.
Nothing to do with housing schemes or bungalows in Bearsden. A ned is a ned.
TtT, Housing Scheme Boy and Proud of It CSC.
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kano
it was in no way a slur against gordon strachan and i fail to see the relevance of his predecessor's track record.however to me full backs have always seemed to be a low priority to gordon, the reason wallace played there was because we had no other cover and he neglected to get any in that particular january window IF i recall correctly. Paul Telfer also was so far i remember a midfielder by trade. he is now singning soumbe when he used caldwell ahead of him as well.
you seem to think i was having a go at gordon i wasn't and i am not criticising the probable signing i am simply asking the question of the scouting network.
also 3 full backs for 2 positions when the ratio everywhere else is so much higher is also another part of my reason for saying that, as i said and u quoted "record on full back numbers"
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Tom the tim,
I was using the term housing scheme in the derogatory way the original post was intended..
Ned,if you like.
I still feel you are underestimating them as a "race" as you seem to think they are.
If you think loud and thuggish behaviour has the slightest thing to do with intelligence,then forgive me,but even despite you being on this Earth for longer than a lot of us,it still appears you have learned not a great deal about people.
Even the worst thugs,are careful of where they exhibit it if they are aware they are being watched.
You are correct,there are people who follow Celtic,who have little intelligence,are thugs,and have no concept of what it means to represent us.
But,I think it is a bit disingenious of you to suggest that they are a major part of our away support.
And even more importantly,that this impression is not one which should be encouraged by our enemies,never mind within our own support.
You should maybe be slightly more circumspect about who you direct the "ned" tag at.
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Antsman,fair enough.
seemed like a wee dig.
But I disagree that it doesn't matter about his predecesor.
That is what he is judged on by a great amount of people,so it matters a great deal.
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hi paul.fellow celts.
paul i would like to clarify a few points i made in the last thread. i, like very many on here, spend a great part of our lives eating, sleeping, and drinking celtic football club,we are a family bound by similar ties.in my home sometimes things dont go the way they should, or the way we want them to go.when that happens we sit down and discuss the problem and how to rectify it. as i have said, probably too many times before ,i have a lot of mileage under my belt watching our beloved celtic, some really bad times, some not too bad times, and then 1967 the pinnacle for any celtic supporter.i am not alone,on this wonderful site there are many who like me have tasted the bitter and the sweet.i am a celtic man .my team are my life.but like with our families we say things to one another that we wouldnt say to others outside our family circle. i will defend my /our team against any detractor. but i would like to be able to air my views regards the performance of our team to my fellow celts on this blogg.i appreciate that all on here dont see things the same way i do, i also acknowledge that i get carried away, for example, when they seem to be improving.and buying when i thought they were skint .you see i like rangers in the position they were the last two seasons ,i could get used to that .i am only expressing my thoughts and my fears. never in a million years would i turn my back on the bhoys .my heart wouldn,t let me. beer time.
hail hail
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Kano
Have to disagree, think there is a large number of Bams in the away support, many of whom I have witnessed personally
I fear for tomorrow
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heard a cracking song the other day wonderful words .thought my that would be great getting played at celtic park .it was a song called "something inside so strong"
it was sung by labi siffrie. has anyone got a link to it.as i said great words .
hail hail
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jimtim,
Labi Siffre
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Songs of Resistance 2
The higher you build your barriers
The taller I become
The further you take my rights away
The faster I will run
You can deny me
You can decide to turn your face away
No matter 'cause there's
Something inside so strong
I know that I can make it
Though you're doing me wrong, so wrong
You thought that my pride was gone... oh no
There's something inside so strong
Something inside so strong
The more you refuse to hear my voice
The louder I will sing
You hide behind walls of Jericho
Your lies will come tumbling
Deny my place in time
You squander wealth that's mine
My light will shine so brightly it will blind you
Because there's
Something inside so strong
I know that I can make it
Though you're doing me wrong, so wrong
You thought that my pride was gone... oh no
There's something inside so strong
Something inside so strong
Brothers and sisters
When they insist we're just not good enough
Well, we know better
Just look 'em in the eyes and say
We're gonna do it anyway
We're gonna do it anyway
because there's
Something inside so strong
I know that I can make it
Though you're doing me wrong, so wrong
You thought that my pride was gone... oh no
There's something inside so strong
Something inside so strong
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nakagod
My take is songs such as the fields and the soldier's song are ok - as long as there are no add-ons. This has always been the case but there's always been an ignorant element who seem to agree with joe public (or should that be billy public) that these songs shouldn't be sung as they're, well Irish, and by definition must be sectarian!
I'd imagine BTOB should be left out. Personally I don't see much wrong with it but better safe than sorry.
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Kano,
read my posts again,
I said that I agreed with what you were saying regarding our Irish heritage, I just didn't like the way you were saying it.
We're both singing from the same hymn sheet, your were just singing it a little to loud for me!
Anyway, regardless you seem like a good guy, and you'll be hoping for a good win tomorrow just like me, so up the Hoops!
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Tomorrow's Herald mentions, almost as an afterthought, that Joe Doumbe "has been re-registered as a Celtic player".
Does this mean that he has already officially signed & if so was any money involved?
They also point out that tomorrow will be Gordon Strachan's 100th competitive game in charge. Congratulations, Gordon and good luck.
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Just popped on as TTTT text me to tell me that Kano was on form... kepp going auld yin..
Paul67 this has not been taken by 100% of the web as a good move with Mince having got a few in the neck.
I will stand up and say that I have sung(very badly) all of the songs with add ons and some worse ones we dont sing now at the games in the past.
As I hope from my posts on here in that yo uknwo I dont pander to the 'establishment' but for once I hope we keep our house clean tomorrow if for nothing else to shove it up our enemy..
As an aside I had to listne to part of the clyde phone in while changing in the gym tonight. There was some w&&&&r, pr**k or total a******e phone din and said he approached Gordon in the car park today and asked him a question and Gordon was not nice to him. He then went on to say that he supported Celtic since he was 4 and followed us home and away including europe.
The wee bit that let him down was he sounded my age and the only thign he said was that he was maybe spoilt on the succes of MoN what about Jock..
Anyway if I have misjudged your age and you post or lurk on here you are a disgrace to the Celtic Family and you must be a total tool as if Gordon had treated me like that I would have made the news not speaking on the radio...
Sorry rant over..Need to go back to the pride.
PS jimtim I usually play it later on every Friday 1 of my favourite songs... A lot of debate what he was actually singing about.
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dick byrne . mick .
many thanks for that bhoys .
my word. even more powerful with the video. did you see that man with the wee bhoy. how can we do that to one another .
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A few dozen halfwits shout ira and the rest shout hail hail, I can just see the press turning that one into a story.
Mick leave the hymns in the chapel eh. Some of us find those just as offensive.
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Evenin all.
Jimtim...I have always loved that song, bought it many moons ago on 7 inch vinyl.Still in a cupboard somewhere. From memory, the original video for it was about South Africa in the days of apartheid. Indeed, I think that the song was written about that very situation, but the words obviously fit any number of given situations.
A very powerful song. Like you, I would love to hear it sung by us,especially at a packed Celtic Park against them.
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I may just have jumped in with both feet but your comment Ardoch is the most offensive and infuriating of the night.
A club with Roman Catholic origins being blighted with anti-Catholic comments like yours.
What about the 1950's support who used to sing 'Hail Glorious St Patrick'? Or was that ok because it was a hymn about an irish Saint??
Any excuse for an anti-religion comment.
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Ardoch...
A hymn offensive?
Inappropriate maybe, but never offensive.
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Celtic are a football club, not a church, just as this is a football blog, not a religious peddling platform.
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GL2
Its an nti-apartheid song which came out round about the time when the anti-apartheid movement was at its peak.
On the songs debate. The real problem we have is with add-ons. Even the Fields gets a "Sinn Fein" and an "IRA" added into it. BOTOB gets a "Provisional wing" and Wille Maley gets an "and the IRA" as well as"f@#$ the Queen and the UDA". No-one could ever justify any of the above songs being sectarian but with add-ons ,apart from ruining the entire song, we are leaving ourselves open to crticism and action. I despise these add-ons and cringe every time I hear them. I was listeneing to a Charlie and the Bhoys Cd the other day live from the Barrowlands around 1998 and the Willie Maley song even then was being ruined by add-ons as was The Fields. I turned it off in disgust.
Before I left Scotland I was a regular attender at away games and know what goes on there. I make no "class" distinction but there is a hell of a lot of drink partaken on these days especially at places like Aberdeen. Its going to be very hard to prevent everyone at the game to refrain from add-ons that they have been singing for a long time especailly in the heat of the moment.
The Soldier Song is a personal bug-bear of mine. The version sang at Celtic games is a bastardised one and as such does not carry the immunity that the "real" national anthem would. I think Celtic fans should be belting it out for all their worth as long as its the proper version. How about the club publishing the correct gaelic version of the song and actively encouraging it by playing it over the tannoys. That way we could lay down a marker that we would never accept the criminalisation of the Irish National Anthem.
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Kano said,
"I still feel you are underestimating them as a "race" as you seem to think they are."
Who mentioned anything about race ?
"
Even the worst thugs,are careful of where they exhibit it if they are aware they are being watched."
If that is the case, why do we have so many programmes featuring the antics of thugs and neds on those CCTV inspired shows?
"but even despite you being on this Earth for longer than a lot of us,it still appears you have learned not a great deal about people."
I have been on this Earth long enough to know that people always have the ability to shock and surprise me and also long enough, I hope, to have learnt a certain sense of decorum in moderating my behaviour and language to suit the occasion and company I am in.
Now, go and have a lie down and I'm sure you'll feel better in the morning, son.
TtT, (former housing scheme boy, but now living in a bungalow CSC)
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Ardoch
That's ok you do your thing and I'll do my thing.
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thegodfather, Ardoch, Kano, TtT and everyone else having a dig today - CQN can be very entertaining when a hot topic is passionately debated or argued.
Some of us dive straight in and it can all get a bit personal. Others, like me, mostly lurk at these points because we're better at face-to-face discussions.
Anyway, my point and the gist of Paul's article is that now, more than ever, we really need to present a united front. The same goes for all the other boards and websites.
There will be a concerted effort to drag our support into the mess TFOD are in right now.
Sure, isn't one as bad as the other?!
It's alright to be an offensive blue nose if that other lot are singing their IRA songs.
Only a tiny percentage of the worldwide Hoops faithful will be in the stadium tomorrow. But even one rendition of the travelling support's anthem, BOTOB, will see the full force of the Hun media having a go at us all.
Let's get tomorrow over with and hope for 3 points and some loud non-political support at Falkirk.
TTTT
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Does anyone know the actual wording of the new SPL rules on, "unacceptable conduct?"
All I have seen is newspaper reports which mention the above phrase, invariably continuing, "including sectarian singing."
Exactly what the rules say is key. If "unacceptable conduct" is anything the SPL match observor finds unacceptable, then the fact that the Irish national anthem, or BOTOB are not sectarian may not be any defence.
I have read in the papers that songs referring to Aberdeen supporters' alleged fondness for sheep will also fall foul of the new regulations.
Anyway, to my original point, does anyone know the precise wording? I'd be grateful if anyone could post a link.
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Michael Collins
Was Amhrán na bhFiann, The Soldier Song, not originally written in English?
I'd like to learn the gaelic version though but can't see it being sung at CP.
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On a different topic, has anyone read the book Spiers wrote on Paul le Guens time at Ibrox??
Apart from the enjoyment of Murray getting a real roasting, it was quite insightful.
Basically the guy lost the dressing room big time. I was thinking how difficult it must have been for Gordon Strachan to follow MON who had been close to so many of the senior players. I remember at the time there were rumours about how the players were not exactly liking the new training methods.
I think it is testimony to Gordon's man management that he came through that situation. Yes, it meant that we lost guys like Agathe and Sutton but it showed everyone else who was boss. Le Guen failed because he took too long to sort out the trouble makers and by the time he made the decision to ditch Barry Ferguson his results couldnt support such a big decision.
Seems to me GS came through his big test with flying colours.
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Artic Monkey
I believe your correct that The Soldiers Song was originally written in English although the gaelic conversion was the one adopted as the National Anthem. Many Irish people I know dislike hearing the song in English. It might take a bit of effort to get evryone singing the Irish version but I rckon it would be worth it.
Lord only knows where the version we hear at Celtic matches came from. Especially the end of the song at the God Bless the Pope bit.
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Jimtim @21.09,
That was some rant, Jim.
All said without stopping for breath as well.
I agree with you and your sentiments.
How are you?
I always enjoy your posts.
STAND UP FOR THE CHAMPIONS,
Martin
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Here we go
Sinne Fianna Fáil
A tá faoi gheall ag Éirinn
Buíon dár slua
Thar toinn do ráinig chughainn
Faoi mhóid bheith saor
Sean-tír ár sinsear feasta
Ní fhágfar faoin tiorán ná faoin tráill
Anocht a théam sa bhearna bhaoil
Le gean ar Ghaeil chun báis nó saoil
Le gunna scréach faoi lámhach na bpiléar
Seo libh canadh Amhrán na bhFiann
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And, courtesy of Wiki, heres whats called the English Transliteration. I think its a long word for Pronunciation.
Shin-na fee-in-na faw-ill
A-taw fwee gal egg Erin
Bween daur slew
Harr tinn du rawnig cooing
Fwee vode veh say-or
Shann-tier awr sheenshir fasta
Nee awg-fur fween teer-awn naw-fween trawl
A nukt a hay-um sa varna vwail
Le g'yan air Gael cunn baws no say-il
Le gunnai sh'krake, fwee law-vock na bill-air
Shuh liv con-ig arawn naveen
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for my sins, I was treated to hospitality at Falikrk last season. Quite a cosy lounge area, good lunch, full of celtic fans. Then out to the seats for the first half. Celtic score, one or two in the posh seats celebrate and then there is an almighty stooshie created by the farmers of Falkirk below. The result ? We were locked in the lounge for the second half with the blinds down and advised by the police to watch the game on the television screen. Unbelievable. Scraped knuckles are a common injury at Falkirk A&e I understand. As someone oringinally from nearby upmarket Alloa, I feel qualified to advise you of this
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Have all you Irish? people forgot that a lot of Scottish folk support Celtic too and the Soldier song means nothing to them?
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Mick/WOO/Ardoch,
I know we are discussing the singing of "celtic" songs tonight among other topics, the idea of singing hymns at games is utterly preposterous.
I know the majority of celtic fans have been raised as catholics as like myself but that idea is well, laughable.
I dont want to have a rant here but the thought of the crowd singing hymns fills me with "oh plz no" thoughts. I'll tell you why, now this is my own thoughts and not representative of any other fans of the club.
I was raised a catholic by a good god fearing family who are all tims through and through, but one day my dad decided to make a life changing commitment that resulted in divorce between my mother and father. i was 7 years old at the time, went to mass every sunday and confession each week, i believed it was just part of normal day to day life at the time. We lived in a different society back then that frowned on divorce. i remember going with my mum to meet the priest from our parish after the divorce only to have him tell my mum that she would not be welcomed in the parish anymore and that she had forsaken her beliefs. this had a devastating affect on our whole family at the time resulting in my immediate family not being allowed to go to mass and my aunts, uncles, grandparents, cousins treating us like lepers. The result, i began to hate (maybe too strong a word now) anything to do with religion and catholism that lasts right upto today. I believe in the heritage and history of our club, from its founders and the cause right up to the present day. Celtic are my club no matter what happened in my own life, I support celtic because I love them, i love the fans, i love everything to do with celtic, I dont support celtic because I am a catholic ( of which i am not, i'm nothing religious wise) So to have someone tell me we should sings hymns at games causes me to question the mentality of your comments, are you a fan because of religion or a fan because you just love celtic? Society is different now, religion or faith should be an individuals right to follow and believe in no matter what but keep it away from CP. Not every celtic fan is catholic or have had a catholic upbrining plz have some respect for these people also when you decide to post. Like Ardoch says CP is not a church, we are a team followed by many faiths and beliefs not just catholism.
Malone, its been a long day, and i should know this but can you clarify the anagram BTOB plz.
apologies to anyone this may offend.
nakagod
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Not that I am suggesting we do sings hymns at CP (although that is surely preferable to the deathly silence that permeates too many games these days) but who said hymns are necessarily 'Catholic' hymns - if anything, they are Christian hymns which, by their nature, encompass more than just Catholics.
I agree, though,that if there is a place for hymns it is not CP. Just as I think CP isn't the place for the Irish National anthem, although I am not in the slightest offended by it and understand why some people may wish to sing it, despite the fact that many people who sing it do not have an Irish bone in their body.
Quite why it should take precedence over classics like 'Jimmy Johnstone on the wing' and 'Jan Venegoor of Hesselink, Jan Venegoor of Hesselnik, Jan..........' and others I don't know (I still get goosebumps when I remember the the Jimmy song at the Scottish Cup final a couple of years ago).
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Nelsbhoy
So whats your point caller? Celtic already fly the St Andrews cross and play in the Scottish league. We supply lots of players for the Scottish international team at all age levels as well as coaches. Every song about Celtic is a Scottish song because we are a Scottish club .
What we're talking about here is expressing our Irish heritage in a way that puts us above reproach from the football authorities in Bonnie Scotland.
You may not like Celtics Irish heritage but a large percentage of our support do and like me think that it is what defines us as being different from a normal football club.
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God bless the Bhoys.
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Nelsbhoy
Not a go at you, my friend, but those who seek to "Scottish" our club will eventually kill it.
Our inclusiveness makes us unique, and that inclusiveness is based on the memory that most of us are descended from "foreigners".
There are plenty other other clubs where Scottish or British nationalism is loudly celebrated.
Us children of Ireland and Poland and Pakistan who find ourselves living in Scotland know that we will always be welcome at Celtic Park.
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Here's a question. Last minute penalty in Champions League Final in Moscow. Boruc in goals, of course. Before Ronaldihno starts his run up, Boruc blesses himself and says a wee prayer (he's allowed to do that in Russia, apparently, without being banged up). At the same time, Ronaldinho does the same thing.
Will God allow a goal, or a save, or does he not really give a toss becaue it's only a game of football and religion doesn't really have a place in a football stadium???
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test
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kano
i prefer to judge gordon on his own merits which are
back to back leagues, scottish cup,cis cup last 16
i have heard many argue he fluked the last 16 as MON's side got 9 points as well, i just say we qualified with a game to spare in response
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Mick I've no problem with your being close to your religion just keep it to yourself please when you go to the game.
There are plenty of good football songs to sing at what is after all a football match.
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nakagod...
You're beliefs todat appear to mirror my own and I agree with you entirely.
My own earlier post was in reply to Ardoch describing hymns as "offensive". I offered inappropriate as an alternative description.
I may not sing hymns but I don't think I have ever heard one that I found offensive.
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Michael Collins (why do I have a feeling that's not your name?) Celtic's Irish heritage has been hijacked by the bigot, and that is the saddest thing of all.
Brother Walfrid would be really proud i am sure.
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I must depart from the "Party Line" on politics being expressed at our games.
Songs of struggles for freedom from the yolk of imperialism are political by nature.
Is Flower of Scotland ok because it panders to a Scottish struggle?
Or is it proscribed because it glorifies a Jacobite cause?
Why should BOTOB be taboo? It makes no sectarian claims?
We are walking a thin line towards allowing others, who don't have our best interests at heart, to define the playing field regardless of our right to freedom of speech and expression.
If they have their way they will take away our history and traditions, after turning a blind eye to almost a century of repression and bigotry.
'GG who doesn't support the IRA in its current manifestations, but recognises the rights of others to do so.....peacefully.
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God has bigger fish to fry, gsc_bhoy.
Big Artur's prayer is valid. It's not about asking God to favour him over his rival [this is Marvin Andrews's theological error], but it is perfectly valid to pray for the inspiration to use all your God-given talents well.
All the people who are uncomfortable with Celtic's Catholic roots, what is it stirs in your heart when you walk up to the main entrance at Celtic Park and see the statue of the Marist?
Walfrid's inspiration was his Catholicism, not his Irishness.
Walfrid's idea only went ahead thanks to his securing the buy-in of the then archbishop of Glasgow, Charles Eyre, an Englishman. The link is Catholicism.
How could the Irish in Glasgow fail to love Celtic? How could we who are their ingrate descendents [they got beaten up by militant Protestants wielding sticks for daring to go to Mass, they went without any luxury, and many basics, to build the churches and schools their great-grandweans now shun] fail to love Celtic?
But, as Winningemmell has said more than once, no Catholicism = no Celtic.
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nelsbhoy
I was talking to a mate a few years ago about are celtic scottish or irish and we settled on us being a hybrid.
Celtic and ireland are intrinsically linked.
I am lucky enough to have an irish mother and father. I am also lucky enough to have an irish partner and through the grace of god a house in both countries.
I am however proud of being both scots and irish. I am most proud of being a celtic fan and of our club.
Throughout our history we have been true to an ethos of christian and non christian charity and proud of our irish roots but aware of our scottish existence.
I went to school with many like me.
Lads who stay in touch through our love of celtic and through our parents and grandparents love of Ireland.
I often wear a donegal top to games and even a gweedore GAA top (sad i know at 38).
Its always great at away games to chat to lads and lassies from all over the country and bizarly what unites us most is our irish heritage. Be it donegal, mayo or dublin. Father, mother grandparent or even great grandparent.
You can't take ireland out of celtic.
On the hymn topic i remember at tynecastle a couple of years ago we sang "walk with me oh my lord". Was a great laugh the junior huns frothing at the mouth and the BNP boys speechless. I do however agree probably not the best place for a hymn.
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As an aside, there's no way I could sing "Walk with me" at a match.
Too many painful funeral memories.
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Did not say I did not like Irish Heritage.My point was basically to open peoples minds that Celtic football Club is not reserved for people of Irish decent ,but to others of all creeds and religions.
I just feel that this is a Football forum being corrupted by psuedo Politicians who need to modernise their thought on all things 21st Century.
Anyhow Hail,Hail
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I want the twins to win.
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Oops. Wrong site.
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Wizardofoz
That might be all the more reason to belt it out, bhoy.
As great posters have said more than once on CQN, we have to be thankful to the people who gave us our love of Celtic and have gone before us, marked with the sign of faith.
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wizard of oz
sorry if i brought back any painful memories
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20.30 Mick said
Walk with me oh my lord...
Blackburn 2003.
Here I am Lord..Is it I lord?
I have heard you calling in the night.
Liverpool 2003
CELTIC CELTIC That's the team for me
CELTIC CELTIC on to history
3 songs sung with gusto on on england/euro trip. Not a secrarian note amongst them. Enjoyed massively by the away support. (Except for some morons on the train back to Preston singing (Celtic Celtic f*** the RUC)...why??
Gives us a C
C
Gives us an E
E
Gives us an L
L
Give us a T
T
Give us an I
I
Give us a T
T
CELTIC!!! CELTIC!!!
Walk on?
We are Sailing?
Latchford for England! (oops showing Jungle age there!)
Give us wave,,Give us a Wave ...Petrer Latchford..
Memories.com-the points deduction scenario.
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Superstition
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Celticfirst, i have a different view on the origin's of Celtic .
"Walfrid's inspiration was his Catholicism, not his Irishness."
Brother Walfrid had an inherent charitable nature.
I can only guess ,but if he were alive today,i believe that he would say that his religious motivations were secondary to his humanitarian motivations.
Secondly.
"no Catholicism = no Celtic."
No poverty and oppression ,no Celtic .Is more apt in my eyes.
Marinello, who posts on here won't mind me saying.
As a Roman Catholic ,he is in a minority of Celtic supporters ,on the CSC bus that he runs from Fife.
There are many Protestant born Celtic fans , who are fanatical in there support of the club,who have no interest in religion.
Celtic is their religion.
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Smashin Milk Bottles
Here I am Lord was voted number-one favourite hymn in everybody's number-one favourite Catholic weekly, The Tablet, a couple of years ago.
A belter, absolutely.
And given its origins in the Old Testament prophets, a protest song.
" … I have heard my people's cry."
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