 Monday, September 24, 2007
Hibs show that Celtic remain vulnerable
This is a difficult game to analyse. If Artur Boruc stopped Hibs first and third goals, as he should have, Celtic would have won, probably quite comfortably. As it turned out, Boruc was culpable, making two of his worst mistakes since joining Celtic in 2005, which fortified Hibernian and put a spanner in the Celtic works. The first goal was reminiscent of a Rab Douglas mistake against Rangers, and Boruc’s error against Inverness Caledonian Thistle in 2006; a cumbersome dive followed by a fumble. Hibs third goal, a shot from outside the box, was stopped by Boruc who only succeeded setting up Hibs’ Sheils to take all three points. In between times Celtic played some attractive football and twice pulled themselves level. Aiden McGeady scored his first goal since January after excellent play between Jan Vennegoor of Hesselink and Scott McDonald. Gary Caldwell then scored with a fine header direct from a corner kick. Massimo Donati commented recently that everything is so much quicker in the Scottish game than he was used to in Italy, which perhaps explains his statuesque pose when robbed of the ball 35 yards from goal three seconds before Hibs opened the scoring. Massimo will be picked-off regularly if he continues to look for time on the ball in a defensive position. It felt like back to the future football at times. How often in the mid-90s did we watch Celtic play scintillating football only to concede crazy goals and drop points? They are certainly more entertaining this season than last, but a familiar vulnerability remains; they lose preventable goals, and away from home, they always lose goals. Is this a worry so far into the rebuilding exercise? You bet it is. As I said, this is a difficult game to analyse. Artur Boruc will be with us another two years before he will have a similar game, who knows, this kind of performance might just mean that he is with us another two years. The scintillating football that swept five goals past St Mirren, Hearts and Inverness should be recalled in a search for perspective if perspective is what you are looking for today, but perspective will only partially help, a run of convincing performances over the next crucial month is the only way for Celtic to answer their critics. Labels: Match Report
194 Comments:
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Paul
YOU MUST BE WELL ANGRY! :o)
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From the end of the last post
greenlion2 said...
Bryce its all about opinion.... I would say that the Whites and Kellys were smashing up your car this present board is maybe locking it away in the garage at night to keep it in good condition so that you can trade it in when a better model comes along.
24/09/07 12:36
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Likewise...end of last post...
greenlion2 - Quinn and the board's strategy is clearly wrong. I do not need to be a champion of industrey or even capable of coming up with a detailed and worthy alternative to know that
Bryce - Why is it wrong ?
I know the following isn't sexy to discuss but as a business which seeks to provide us with a product on the pitch, surely there must be something right in the following aspects of our strategy as a club ? :
Boosting our youth setup. The building of Lennoxtown, the strategic hires in John Park.
Making use of Asset management (Petrov, Miller, Wallace, etc)
Having identifiable sources of revenue in Boruc, Sno, McGeady, naka, Brown, etc.
Alternative streams of revenue - Global marketing / branding, strategic partnerships, etc.
Fiscal prudence- Containing the wage bill but remaining successful in our home market of the SPL. Current SPL champions.
We've pinned our hope on establishing stars of tomorrow with an improved youth setup, supplementing by backing the manager in the transfer market when needs be (appreciate this is a bone of contention to some extent) by having the finances to do so (as well as utilising our scouting) and ensuring we make full use of the brand by seekign revenue in markets such as Japan, US and eatern europe for example..
Is all that clearly wrong ?
Big wavy
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We needed a wide player yesterday, with Jim O'Brien picking up skelfs instead of taking his rightful place in for the injured Naka.
If Nakas out we need width not depth aka Hartley.
Boruc - should be told to stick to basic goalkeeping from now until the end of the season - NO MORE showboating.
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Take away what happened in Donetsk(which is what nearly always happens in CL away games) and two unlikely Blunders from Artur then we would still be at the top of the League.
It's just one of those weeks. It can all change by the end of next week. Happily clapping through Monday!
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Did anyone else notice that 80mins gone McManus goes up for a corner and then WGS tells him to go back, on the TV it then shows WGS then saying something to the 4th official.Tell me Im wrong but was WGS slagging our Captain of to the fourth official if he was that is shocking & disrespectful. Need to watch this incident again tonight.
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GS was telling Mick to get back as Aiden was off injured and we were down to 10 men. I'll see your negative perception of what GS said to the fourth official and raise you the possibility that he was having a laugh about not stepping out of his technical area. And even if he was saying 'footballers, I dunno', so what? Come down from molehill mountain.
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Did anyone else notice that 80mins gone McManus goes up for a corner and then WGS tells him to go back, on the TV it then shows WGS then saying something to the 4th official.
Tell me Im wrong but.......
You are wrong. It looked like he couldn't be heard and it took him several attempts to attract attention. Nothing more. Nothing less.
Big Wavy
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Thanks Big Wavy & Bloke 109 for clearing that up Cheers lads.
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Greenlion2 from previous thread...
What rockstar money?
It's a dirty lie! I'm poor! Honest!
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Very disappointed that we've let the evil empire slip past us into the lead again. But, having kicked the cat (metaphorically of course - for any concerned animal lovers) it helps to put this into context. Hibs are a decent team - certainly we can't gift them two goals and expect to pick up any points. And, if we hadn't given them two freak goals, we would have won. This was a one off - Buruc will play for a month of Sunday's before doing the same again. With things being tighter this year, our loss away this week wiped out the advantage we got from the manky mob's loss last week. The difference? They have still to play Hibs and will have to play well to avoid dropping points. Us? We've hammered the jambos already. There lies the true picture I think.
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I’ve had a study of the SPL ‘Computer’ and came up with the following findings regarding the 2007-08 Champions League Fixtures. See what you think…
Matchday 1 (18-19 Sep)
Celtic Away (Shaktar - Tue)
Rangers Home (Stuttgart - Wed)
Following Weekend:
Celtic Away (Hibs - Sun)
Rangers at Home (Aberdeen - Sun)
Matchday 2 (02-03 Oct)
Rangers Away (Lyon - Tue)
Celtic Home (AC Milan - Wed)
Following Weekend:
Celtic away (Gretna)
Rangers at Home (Hibs)
Matchday 3 (23-24 Oct)
Rangers Home (Barcelona - Tue)
Celtic Away (Benfica - Wed)
Following Weekend:
Celtic Home (Motherwell - Sat)
Rangers Away (Dundee Utd - Sun)
Matchday 4 (06-07 Nov)
Celtic Home (Benfica - Tue)
Rangers Away (Barcelona - Wed)
Following Weekend:
Celtic Home (Falkirk - Sat)
Rangers Away (St Mirren - Sun)
Matchday 5 (27-28 Nov)
Rangers Away (Stuttgart - Tue)
Celtic Home (Shaktar - Wed)
Following Weekend:
Celtic away (Hearts – Sat 01)
Rangers at Home (Kilmarnock – Sat 01)
Matchday 6 (04-12 Dec)
Celtic Away (Milan – Tue 04)
Rangers Home (Lyon – Wed 12)
Following Weekend:
Celtic Home (St Mirren – Sat 08)
Rangers Away (Hearts – Sat 15)
The corresponding SPL Fixtures for Matchdays 5 –6 are in December and the SPL have still to confirm the Setanta Sunday games. but so far Celtic are Away in Milan 3 days after their away match with Hearts. I accept the fixtures computer will not have legislated for the fact that Milan last game had to be played a week earlier. This would then mean that it was planned for Celtic to travel Away to Inverness on Sat 15th.
I also look forward to seeing how the SPL accommodate Celtic’s Away game against Hearts planned for 3 days after Matchday 5 and 3 days before Matchday 6. Re-arranged to Midweek on Tue 11th when they should have been playing Matchday 6 perhaps?
I know it’s easy to sound ‘paranoid’ and I’m not usually one for that, but it seems that Rangers’ fixtures are easier, and If I WAS prone to a wee bit of Paranoia, I’d have to conclude that the SPL Fixtures generator isn't an Apple Computer… It's an ORANGE one!
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re. the comment about us not getting crosses in from the byline. I've been saying that for the last 2 seasons. Aiden, for all his skill, is rarely capable of skinning a defender and whipping in a cross. 9 times out of 10, he cuts inside.
Naylor is a full back. His crosses are getting poorer by the month. And I can't remember the last time Mcgeady and he linked up to get a byline cross into the box. All attacking teams seem to have this ability, but we don't.
Or am I just imagining it ???
On the other side of the park, whether it's naka or wilson, the same.
Only McDonald seems to have managed this half a dozen times since the start of the season.
As teams pack their defences against us , going through the middle is not always the best route.
I'd love to see us get a tricky winger on the right that we could bring on for the last 30 mins of a game to whip in 7 or 8 crosses. We'd score at least a couple under those circumstances.
Anybody in the reserves worth a punt ?
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As devil's advocate am I alone in thinking losing away goals isn't much of an issue when you're winning, as by and large we have done over the past year?
Our away record in the Champions League is balanced by an outstading home record - most like sides have a near 80-20 split - we're effectively 100-0. Similarly our poor SPL away goals record is balanced by the fact we win the vast majority of them. Yesterday's result does bring things into focus but again is balanced by Artur's errors. The conceding of away goals record is there to be broken - we play Gretna away soon... (with someone bound to say it's not really away, it's neutral)
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Antibes.....
Is it just me, or has Lee Naylor's loss of form co-incided with Shaun Maloney leaving?
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We may get more from Aiden if we played him on his'natural'side;something which can be tried when Nakamura is out injured.
What we may be seeing this season is the true depth and quality of the squad now it has been purged of the last of the Martinists.
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Miketw10, the SPL fixtures were sorted long before we were even qualified to play in the CL, and if you are suggesting that UEFA are biased towards Rangers and against Celtic, then you need to start taking your medication again!
Paul67, I feel Artur is being slaughtered for the role he played in Sunday's game, partially unfairly. Sure, he let in two goals in a manner that he normally wouldn't have, but:
The first one was going to Artur's right (and he had started moving that way) before taking a deflection off a defender and heading to Artur's left. He managed to adjust himself and dive the other way. However, as a result of the deflection the ball was spinning viciously, which put a wicked swerve onto it's trajectory, thus turning it's path from AB's hands towards his waist. It also dipped and bounced just in front of him. All this made it extremely difficult for him to actually get his hands to the ball, and we all know what ensued.
Alas, questions should also be asked about how Hibs gained possession in that area of the pitch, and how the Hibs player got the shot away in the first place.
For the last goal I think the ball again moved in the air, which meant that rather than heading straight into AB's hands it was slightly to his left. AB tried to block the shot in such a way that he could bounce the ball downwards off the ground and back into his hands. But given the pace of the ball, and the fact that grass pitches are rutted and roughed up during the course of a match, this didn't go to plan and the ball squirmed free, allowing a Hibs player to lunge in and turn the ball into the net.
But why had no defenders anticipated that the ball might not stick (with the keeper)? And why did no-one track the Hibs player, as surely someone should have been marking him?
In both cases there is an element of shared blame, although I accept that both incidents were out of character for AB. So let's blame Lee Naylor.
P.S. I predict an away clean sheet on Wednesday, the first since 1967. Apparently.
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gl2-from the last thread:Carlisle was grand,thanks.
90 minutes of honest endeavour from both teams;only disappointment was size of crowd.We were getting a lot more in div4.
Admission to Paddock £16
Brunton pasty[mega-delish]and cup of tea £1.40
[Excellent]club programme £3
Paradise windfall £2
Pint of Theakstons in the Beehive £2.02
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There is a danger that we over analyse individual games, perhaps we should be analysing the developing bigger picture and comparing it to your vision of a 'generation of domination'.
So a few questions for you Paul and fellow bloggers:
Are we on course as per your vision of generation of domination?
Is the re-build of the team by WGS on course to deliver the generation of domination or is our weakness in defence allowing the vision to slip though our fingers as readily as the opposition find a way through our defence?
Is our financial prudence delivering healthy financial accounts at the expense of a robust defence which wll take Celtic to the next level?
Did the board gamble on the defence that we have taking us to the next stage of the CL rather than investing in a defence which is perceived by many to be in need of surgery?
If we fail to secure at least third spot in the current section of the CL what will that do for the future prospects of Celtic moving to the next level?
With a view to our impending midweek CIS game should WGS be re-assessing the involvement of Balde?
And finally, what is the situation with Kennedy? Is he injured or is he out of the reckoning as far as WGS is concerned?
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BigChips
I'm not saying anything of the sort regarding UEFA, but answer me this... Is the SPL Computer aware of the UEFA CL Matchday Dates when it comes to planning it's fixtures?
As for medication, I haven't finished that last lot yet!
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Marty_The_Maestro.
I don't think so, as Naylor played his best games at the start of his first season when SM was in and out of the team.
Even this season. LN's inability to get to the byline more than once in a game has nothing to do with the absence of SM !
I'll grant you that Maloney (or AN Other) may give a left back better cover than AM, as AM tends to get forward with the ball quickly, leaving a gap between back and middle that isn'f filled by another team-mate quickly. When AM loses the ball, look at how far the opposing player takes ball forward before we have a tackle on him.
I'd like to see us have on the left side the same sort of understanding we have on the right. Especially last year between Telfer and Naka.....they rarely left gaps between them for a player to run through on goal.
Opposing players now seem to know that attacking in 2's or 3's down our left will get them to within shooting distance of goal maybe a third of the time.
The answer? Probably many solutions could be implemented...but I don't know the best one - I'll leave that to the management.
Hail Hail!
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Hi ghuys and ghals -
have not had time to read all of yesterday's posts.
I still can't get over the game. If we lose our title this match will be cited as one of the pivotal moments in the championship.
Deeply disappointing and we, as a matter of urgency, need to get back to.....
WinninGemmes
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Evening Paul,fellow tims
Poor result,completely down to one thing.
Artur Boruc.
Thought we played well enough to win the game.
How anybody can come on here and claim that Lee Naylor was responsible for any of the goals yesterday really is beyond a joke,and says more about the poster than it does about the player.
The first goal was from Massimo Donati being dispossessed easily,and a complete howler from Artur Boruc.
The second was due to a poor header from Gary Caldwell and a good finish.
The third goal was from another complete howler from Artur Boruc.
Hang on a wee minute,I will just check the reasons for the goals again!!!!
Yup,read it again,and for the life of me,I cannot see Lee Naylor mentioned anywhere.
Can anybody else?
Cos according to pfayr,and his mates yogissannies and Italiabhoy,Lee Naylor was the one who had the nightmare,or who was at fault for at least two of the three goals.
Have seen him play a lot better,but really,the garbage you three spout about the man says more about you three than it does about the player.
If you could look past your stupid wee dislikes about certain players,and the fawning over of certain other ones,we may well see where the problems are with the team.
From the ICT(they didn't score,but could well have had three) game to Shakhtar,to yesterday.
It is our midfield.
Apart from two or three really good attacking moves in two of the three games,the midfield,with the exception of Paul Hartley have been the weak part of our team.
Scott Brown hasn't fired for three or four games,and his temperament looks suspect,in fact he was lucky to stay on the park against Shakhtar.
Naka,when not scoring,or producing some sublime skill,which recently has become very infrequent,is mostly worse than a man short.He gives away possession in dangerous areas,is easily pushed over,has no pace,can't header and my Ma could tackle better than him.And she has been dead for a couple of years.
Aiden,was actually a bit better in one of those games,and managed a goal,but more frequently he resembles the poorer incarnation of Naka.
Massimo Donati,has good touch and can move forward with pace and skill,and I know he can pass too,and finish,but he does not look fit to me,or he is just lazy,he is scared to tackle,and gives away possesion at least three times a game in very dangerous positions.
The midfield,is too soft,and does not cover back enough.
Paul Hartley is the one exception to this,when he has played.
I think he has been exceptional this season when played.
It is a failing of Gordon Strachan,that we continue to play McGeady and Naka in the same team with Brown and Donati,we are far too weak and far too slow to cover when we have lost possession
Brown is the only guy with some dig.
We should never start with Aiden and Naka in the same team,and whilst we are short of defensive options in midfield,Paul Hartley should be played all the time.
Although not the most gifted of midfielders,he has pace,can pass,can shoot,tackle,is incredibly fit,has dig and is more than willing to make the utmost effort for the team,even at his own expense.
I believe this to be the case,even when playing what some on here disdainfully disregard as "SPL cannon fodder"
When playing in Europe,particularly away,against Rangers,and in Hearts and Hibs away fixtures,I think we should dispense with the services of both of them,until we are settled and confident enough in the game,to maybe bring them on as substitutes.And we certainly should not be playing with two attackers away from home in Europe,five midfielders,with two diffenet ones breaking forward,which can give the impression of three attackers Scott McDonald,leave Big Jan out,he does not have the pace or stamina to harry the home defence.Chris Killen looks far more mobile,if we are looking for height.
Both Aiden and Naka are luxury players,who should be used to get a desired result,and even swapped with Scott McDonald on the field,when we are under pressure,get them up front out of the way.Scott McDonald is a far more effective harrier and pest.
If Evander Sno,is not yet ready for play,I would put Caldwell in midfield,and play either Darren O'Dea or John Kennedy at centre back,with Stephen McManus.
We need to get rid of the arrogance about our team and club, realise we need to get the sleeves rolled up and do a bit of fighting for when the fancy footwork just isn't the right option,and show the right to display some arrogance.
All the good teams have at least two hard midfield players,this does not ban them from having skill or other abilities,but they need to be hard and fit and extremely willing workers for the defensive side of the team.
If the right side of our defence is being attacked, Brown and Hartley move to Right centre and wide right midfield,both have the pace,anergy and dig to give the opposition second thoughts about thinking they have an easy route,and they can move to the left if that is where the danger lies.Both are well capable of turning defence into attack at pace too.
The Italian and Spanish teams hunt in packs in midfield and then disperse when possession is won,and under control.
This is the mentality we need in the middle of the park,if only we had four midfielders who could do that,but at the moment we have two that I can see,and only one is getting a game.
And as for the refrain"Artur was at fault but he has saved us a few times,so we will let him away with it"
Very wrong.It was shocking goalkeeping.Saving us is his job,and he should be good at it.
Everybody else in the team,well nearly everybody else,gets pelters for having a howler,there is even a few in the team who get it from some when they play perfectly well.
Don't get me wrong,I am of the opinion that he is the best keeper we have had in my lifetime.
But this does not make him Lev Yashin,by any stretch of the imagination.
For a guy who crosses himself so often,you would think he would be able to catch a few that regularly get headed into his goal from 6-8 yard range.
But that is a failing in his game.
He has also had a couple of other real howlers like yesterday,and he has a propensity to let in a few whilst making save attempts more for the camera,rather than for the good of his team.
The defence we have is not the best in the world by any means,but no defence is going to look real good when the midfield is so powder puff(at defending) and so likely to give up possession in dangerous positions,whilst being unable or unwilling to do much about retrieving the situation.
P.S.
Sean South,surprise surprise,you find yourself,once again,"unbusy" after a defeat,in fact you were quite gregarious,and positively(strange word to use when describing anything about you,I know) chatty after Shakhtar,if I may say so.MAnaged a quick one today too,I see,pitty it was to have a dig at Celtic and say Rangers would win the league,but no surprising in the slightest.
The coincidences with your unbusy periods and a Celtic defeat are quite staggering.
PPS,
Who kidnapped Noel and Estadio and Kitalba?
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Antibes ,
McGeady is playing on the left wing when his stronger foot is the right foot hence the reason why he cuts in. When he is on the right wing he does head straight down the byline. This is a feature of Celtics play with Naka and Aiden both cutting inside to deliver the cross.
If we had decent fullbacks on form our wingers could feed the fullback with the pass before the cross. Overlapping worked well in previous seasons for WGS but this season the fullbacks particularly the left back has been targeted by all our opposition. Naylor needs rested or benched and Wilson needs installed at left back for a few games.
The defense needs confidence which can only be gained by a few clean sheets in a row. Do we want to sacrifice our marauding football for clean sheets. A balance has to be made. Do we close out a game for a clean sheet to have the supporters cry " poor football " ?
Errors continue to cost us. I predict team 3 will have a new defensive spine by the close of business in January.
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Kano - agree about Naka and Aiden in the same side. Have thought this for some time.
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Bryce,only see it as an option when we have already won the game and are trying to up the goal difference,or when we are behind with nothing to lose by going for it.
It is not only the SPL midfields who are populated by "hammer throwers"
We are too weak when both play,and leave ourselves exposed far too often
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Kano - agreed again. My worry is that this is a fundamental part of our manager's vision of how Celtic should play and I'm not sure he will readily change. Do you think Maloney for McGeady would make a big difference?
Big Wavy - you're right to point out the things the board are getting right and I should also have given credit where it is due. This season's budget is not one of them however.
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Billc,
My tuppence worth...
Are we on course as per your vision of generation of domination?
Hope so…but is this GOD thing becoming a bit of a soundbite from the happy clappers ? We all wanna see progress and a full and healthy trophy cabinet. Each season at a time please...
Is the re-build of the team by WGS on course to deliver the generation of domination or is our weakness in defence allowing the vision to slip though our fingers as readily as the opposition find a way through our defence?
At the moment our defence couldn't win us an argument. But it is fixable with a bit of expenditure and ruthlessness by bthe boss. But can we really leave another transfer window without it fixed ? Big question. We need a statement of intent here from the club as an exception.
Is our financial prudence delivering healthy financial accounts at the expense of a robust defence which wll take Celtic to the next level?
I've never thought it as an either / or argument here. Think it's a mixture of affordability, the manager's ability to coach upwards and inability to procure better. The money is there and that should make us better prepared in Jan.
Did the board gamble on the defence that we have taking us to the next stage of the CL rather than investing in a defence which is perceived by many to be in need of surgery?
Running the club is all about judgement calls. I suppose the afterglow of milan away last year may have convinced some at the club that we'd turned a corner in away fixtures. Spartak may have reinforced it but Donetsk has certainly put it back it back…severely. The gamble looks shaky at the mo but we have our home fixtures 'joker' to play yet..
If we fail to secure at least third spot in the current section of the CL what will that do for the future prospects of Celtic moving to the next level?
It'll set us back but I think the business strategy rightfully doesn't put us in jeopardy over this factor on its own.
With a view to our impending midweek CIS game should WGS be re-assessing the involvement of Balde?
If fit, and better than what we have in situ then no-one should not be assessed, Balde and JJ included. They are currently in the employ of the club and I'd like us to get some value out of their weekly wages.
Big Wavy
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Hi Everyone,
was disappointed with the result yesterday but thought we played well and deserved to take something from the game. No excuses for Boruc, and I'm sure he won't offer any.
I haven't read all the posts since the game, but from what I have read I didn't see much talk about JJPD. Am I alone in thinking he done well yesterday?
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******* Reminder to all. *********
Cliftonville V Linfield
Tonite At Solitude 7:45pm SKYSPORTS 1
Give it a watch if your looking blood , thunder and guts in your football.
Plenty of passion and considering the history of the two clubs is entwined with the troubles of the north of Ireland then its always a firecracker of a fixture.
Red Army !!!!!!!!
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big liam
Saw Sky plugging it yesterday. Not being dismissive, and excuse my ignrance, but you any idea why it is on Sky? Quite apart from the nature of the fixture, it's not ususally covered by Sky.
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Bryce,not with Donati there too.
I honestly see our best midfield as Brown,Hartley,Sno,and any one of Donati/Naka/McGeady.And I think the midfield should take on the shape of a diamond or like this\/\,moving back and forth across the field, rather than a line
Maloney was slightly better at covering but I still thought the same problems were there when both he and Naka were in the team with 2 forwards.
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Wow..Sky are showing the game ???
Was this written into the Good Friday agreement or something ?
How times have changed back home...
Is the cage still in operation at solitude ??
Big Wavy
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I didn't think Naylor did particularly badly yesterday either. I'd still like to see better from him going forward but defensively he was solid enough as was the whole defense as shown by the fact that Hibs barely created any decent chances. I do think Naylor had some blame for the second goal as with Caldwell. While Caldwell should have done better with the header Naylor was caught ball watching a bit when he should have got tighter to their goal scorer, but even then the player still had a lot of work to do to score from that angle and deserves some credit. Before the game if I was told that our defense would limit Hibs to that chance and the other one were they got in behind through some nice football then I would would consider that a decent performance from the defenders. But then again I wouldn't have been able to predict that Boruc would have a game like that :-(
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Kano,
Fairly radical thoughts there imho and somewhat 'trendy' in that I suspect that naming PH in our 'best' midfield a month ago would have had you sectioned :)
Personally I thought Donati was progressing well given the culture shock that is SP-Hell and was one of the better players in the Ukraine (not saying much granted). I think the blood and snotters with the kids of SPL teams is causing him problems after the culture of Serie A but I think he's a class act. Sno doesn't deserve the cult status he recieves based on track record. Slows us down too much. I'd like us to play 'horses for course' and when gelling the best footballing midfield contains Naka, Donati and Aiden. They were instrumental in helping bang in a succession of 5 goal hammerings.
Big Wavy
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I agree with Kano regarding the midfield being at fault, and I said as much yesterday.
We don't battle hard enough to win the ball back when we lose it, which is why it looks like every 50-50 ball is landing at the feet or head of the opposition.
To say that Aiden McGeady is TOO good for everybody else, as intimated by the suggestion that he bombs up the wing and Lee Naylor is left behind is a nonsense. Tommy Gravesen got lambasted for that last year, and got described as a headless chicken. What's the difference?
Whenever Lee Naylor DOES overlap AM he rarely receives a pass anyway, because AM is too intent on cutting inside, beating 2 or 3 players and shooting. Subsequently, whenever possession is lost, LN is caught upfield, giving the impression that HE'S at fault.
And I still say that Big Artur was at fault for the second goal too. A commanding goalkeeper should have claimed that ball when it was up in the air.
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Sky Purchased rights for Northern Ireland international fixtures and included in the package was the rights to the minimum of 10 games over 3 years from the Carnagie Irish League.
Sky decided this was the best to open with seeing as its a derby game with explosive potential. Its grassroots football , amatuer and semi-pro mixed in. All players have a passion for the game and there is great pride considering that its a derby. A lot of the Cliftonville players are Celtic fans themselves and playing Linfield who are the equivalent of rangers is a big thing.
Cliftonville beat linfield 2-0 last tuesday night in a cup game away from home. There's extra pressure know that its on SKY live to the nations.
You'll not see ronaldinho style tricksbut you'll see bone-crunching tackling and a cup-style type of play. A large police presence will be in North Belfast tonight , the away end will be full of loyalists and their paraphernalia , sporting rangers tops with lovely hymns in their repertoire.
The atmosphere will be great. Hopefully it comes across well on TV.
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Big Wavy,certainly no trendy call from me.
I probably deserve sectioned for a lot of my posts on here,but I have always thought Hartley was receiving pelters when he played more because he used to play for Hearts,or he was playing a different position,rather than any particular failings of the player himself.
Sno doesn't have a cult status with me.In fact I think he has a lot to learn,and would quite happily,at this stage,insert Gary Caldwell in in stead of Evander Sno.
I am looking at the overall shape of the midfield as our "best available"not the skill or otherwise of individual players.
You are correct with the attacking capabilities of the triumvirate you mention,but their defensive and ball retaining capabilities are really quite shocking.
And will be overrun by any semi capable midfield in Europe.
As I said there is times when that set up should be used and encouraged,but there is also a lot of times when it is patently silly to employ it,and they will just be bullied off the ball,and outrun by quicker and stronger players.
For those occassions I think we are better without two of the three you mention.
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Big Wavy ,
The Cage is still there , rusty but in all its glory ;-)
If anyones bored and wants to see pictures of when Celtic played Cliftonville at Solitude in '84 (when the riot happened in which fans , managers , players alike defended themselves from the RUC who preceded to attack the infamous cage) Click on the link below.
Some wonderful pictures of the Celtic 84 side (big hair , dodgy shorts)
Click on link scroll down to bottom of opening page , select the page 9 (Celtic game).
CLICK HERE
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Toomebridge_bhoy,
agree,thought he did well.
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Cheers Kano,
I think we are agreeing to a certain extent. I would have been quite content last week with a (relatively) hard-nosed 5 in midfield containing brown, caldwell, mcgeady, hartley and donati for a period of time where we were holding out for a dull nil-nil……..swop that for a naka and aiden inspired 4 for the lesser SPL teams at home.
Big Wavy
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Big Wavy
I have absolutely no confidence that we'll sign anyone in January who would significantly improve the team.
It is rare for quality players to change clubs at that time of year other than perhaps due to a fall out with the manager of their club leading to them having to move and perhaps on a loan deal.
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EDB,
I hope you are wrong (mostly cos it is my new coping mechanism) but I fear you are spot on. Can't beat your logic and given how suicidal i felt at the end of the last transfer window my starting point is half full on this, with a remote chance that the disaffected left back becomes available.
I'm off to write my "John Arne-Riise is a ginger whinger" comment on every gable wall surrounding Anfield and let's see what happens :)
Big Wavy
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Hi Bhoys
looking for a team in the glasgow area to build up my fitness as i am bored sitting about the hoose all day. Willing to travel to maybe east Kilbride or paisley area
yours
JJ your czech mate
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We might not see many chnages for the Dundee game.El Gordo will not want to lose 3 games in a row;and he is inherently a very cautious individual,for all his sparky repartee.I would like to see the likes of BB,JK,DR,D o'D and Mark Brown all get 90 minutes but it'll likely be the usual suspects.
He is very reluctant to change either personnel,or tactics.ACM away was uncharacteristically inventive for him and nearly succeeeded.
Big Liam-excellent series of very evocative pictures.I imagine there's not many of the'prawn sandwich'brigade in the cage.
Solitude is a fantastic name for a football ground.Where does it come from?
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EDB,
there is the possibility of picking up people who are about to become Bosmans in the summer,for less than they would normally cost,similar to Sean Maloney's situation at Christmas.
Miketw10,
I think a lot of the problem of what you are saying with the interplay between our wide men and full backs is down to the fact that both our wide men play on their "wrong" sides,hance encouraging them to come inside.
This more often than not leaves the overlapping run from the fullback nothing more than a decoy,and if the wide guy is dispossessed,then we are faced with the problem you point out.
An out of position full back,whose run forward has been ignored.
Both the fullback,and the wide players need to be able to cross with their "correct" foot from the wing wothout checking on to thier other foot.
This was what TBM was asking about.
The reason we don't get to the byline much,is because both our wide midfielders are on their wrong foot when it comes to getting there.
This in turn affects the dynamics with the full back too.
I do not like them being on the wrong side,we very very rarely get to the by line and cut it back.
Something I think we miss a great deal,Scott McDonald seems to be the only guy willing to give it a go just now,and he has been succesful 3 or 4 times so far.
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It's J-A Riise's birthday today;so you might want to make it'many happy returns,you BGW.'
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Kano - the other option we rarely see is the two wide players switching sides during a match. I think our opponents would struggle more with that than the rest of our team.
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kano
unfortunately i just read your post about the game yesterday, my user name popped up.
on the wee yappy dug which is lee naylor copyright gordon strachan.
how can you fail top comprehend, or fail to see as a celtic supporter, in that lee naylor is not playing well.
its reached embarrassing proportions that he is allowed to play week in week out, with no alternative.
he left morais unmarked wide right when the cross came in for the secoond goal, and then caught out of position, he managed to fail to tackle Gathuessi as well despite the fact he was stood beside him when he scored.
he needlessly gave away a corner for the third and failed to challenge zemmama when the shot came into boruc from which they scored.
sorry for you that you cannot read the game, or maybe refuse to study the evidence.
his general all round play was not as bad as tuesday but nonetheless he was still poor and resembles a punch drunk boxer, and its not often
i've seen a player manage a "throw out".
maybe lee naylor is a small part of a bigger problem, but too me he sticks out like a sore thumb. on the 'wee dislikes' we are all entitled
to our opinions some players you like some you dislike.
p.s. i'd appreciate you cut out the personal attacks on people who have a different opinion to you or paul67
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Fancy that Bryce,having a right footed player on the right,and a left footed one on the left.
Seems to be way too old fashioned these days.
Have no problem with players moving about during the game,should be more of it.
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Kano - when WGS bought Gary Caldwell, I assumed that he was grooming him as Lenny's successor as he had played quite effectively for Scotland in that role.
Clearly the manager had other ideas.
I had hoped that young Evander would have been pushing for a starting place by now, but he's looked well off the pace when he's come on and a shadow of the guy we saw at home to Benfica.
GC would be the obvious choice for holding midfielder as Paul Hartley likes to get forward when the opportunity presents itself, such as in Moscow. PH has stated that he would like to move to the holding role, but only to prolong his career! Maybe not the best option for us.
I really don't fancy going to Snake Mountain with the current lightweight team and I certainly wouldn't start with Naka and Aiden. We would lose some creativity, but a 4-5-1 (4-4-1-1 even) with Donati, Brown or Hartley driving forward would give us some penetration.
Boruc
Doumbe O'Dea McManus Naylor
Hartley Brown Caldwell Donati McGeady
McDonald
(Naka and Wilson are injured just now!)
Depending on the opposition, we could go back to a more attacking line-up with Naka nd Aiden starting.
TTTT
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Just when Gordon Strachan has at last got a strongest XI they have to spoil things with back to back defeats.
I have enjoyed the attacking play this season but defending is important too. Brown and Donati will have quiet games, so what is plan B? Yesterday I was waiting for Brown to start to dominate the game late on. Unfortunately, not this time! :-(
It`s still a new team, maybe we should be keeping the faith and being more patient. We won the double last year and people were still miserable.
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Paul67
only had a brief moment to digest article and comments. My immediate response is - "scintillating" football ?! Whoooah, there horsey !! I have to disagree with that description. It implies a domination in possession which in turn lead to a plethora of chances. That didn't happen. If it describes making pretty patterns in midfield, then I accept it as accurate.
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Fellas,
Just got a text from a mate who said that there is a story doing the rounds in merseyside that we are in talks with an unnamed Liverpool player with a view to a January loan swoop.
Allegedly there's been a breakdown between the player and some sections of the support.
More when I have it.
:)
Big Wavy
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Kano, Big_Liam et al.
Thanks for the info re. McGeady. I've watched him so often on the tv and in the flesh that I'd forgotten he was a right-winger !!
Honest !
I can't remember the last time he played on the right for 90mins, never mind 2 games in a row.
Can't for the life of me understand why we should have him on the left for 90mins , in that case????
Wouldn't it be better for him to play on the right, even for 20-30 mins every game, and whip in crosses to the box, where we might score 1-2 goals ?
On the left, we can play a left-footer who can supply crosses from that side. Makes sense to me.
As for the Naylor knockers....he's been better in the LB position than any incumbent since Tom Boyd.
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Fernando Torres????? 80)
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Kano
How can you sit and complain about having Naka and McGeady in the same midfield when we play a game without one of them and lose?!?!
They are wingers, they are not their for their 'dig', yet at times they put the foot in.
The only problem with playing them both is that we have weak fullbacks at the moment. It would help playing them on their correct sides - not only would the quality of balls into the box improve but it would discourage Naylor and Wilson from going forward as often and they'd be able to concentrate on what they're there for - to defend.
I just got to watch the game there and we should have easily won it. We were all over them for the most part and were defeated due to a bad day at the office from the normally reliable Artur Boruc.
We need a quality fullback. One who can defend and put in a good cross.
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Yogi,or whatever your name is.
Don't recall mentioning you in any posts,but if you use two different names,excuse me for not knowing.
No need to be sorry for me,save it for yourself.
I said it was "wee dislikes" which were stupid,not you personally.
So please,save the "cut out the personal attacks" garbage will you?
Coming from a guy who spends a lot of time making them at our players,that is extremly rich.
You remind me of the supporters who Gordon Strachan was lambasting at the Aberdeen game.Continually spout off invective at who you please,as if it your right,then cry "abuse" when someone has the temerity to brand one of your opinions or quirks(which as you say,you are entitled to display) as stupid.Not you personally.
As for being able to "read the game" keep your condescending nonsense to yourself.
Obvioulsy what you choose to see is the correct version.
Everybody else has a comprehension problem.Not stupid mind you,just a failure to comprehend.
God the hypocrisy,it makes you sick sometimes.
I have stated repeatedly that Lee Naylor is not playing well.If you are going to comment on what I post,could I suggest you actually read it.
Or maybe you pay as much attention to what you are rsponding to as you obviously do to the game,which you are apparently so good at "reading" and comprehending.
Very little.
There is a whole chain of events leading to each goal.
I have pointed out the main events which caused the goals.
If you cannot "read" or "comprehend" this,as I have said it says more about you than it ever will say about Lee Naylor.
Then again why should I expect you to comprehend plain written English.
I will say again,Lee Naylor is playing poorly.
And I will say it slowly
Lee................Naylor.............is .................playing.................are you ready for it now??
Poorly.
Do you comprehend this yet?
As for Paul's opinion,ask him what his is.
And once again,can you copy where I have "personally attacked" you?
You poor wee soul.
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Antibes
on the naylor nockers nicky naky noo
not knocking just others critique of something but maybe not all, that is wrong with the team.
hail hail
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TTTT,so did I with Gary Caldwell,although I don't actually mind him as a centre half.That game in Lisbon will haunt him for a long time,at least what a lot of people think of him anyway.
Malone19,we would not have lost had Artur not decided to do a Bruce Grobbelar impersonation.
Hope the big man wasn't seen anywhere near a bookies before the game!!!
And I think Naka should also have been left out of Shakhtar and Inverness.
This would have given him a much needed three week break.
The guy has been playing non stop for almost three years now.
He needs a rest.
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Paul,
’The scintillating football that swept five goals past St Mirren, Hearts and Inverness should be recalled in a search for perspective if perspective is what you are looking for today, but perspective will only partially help, a run of convincing performances over the next crucial month is the only way for Celtic to answer their critics.’
Didn’t see the game so once again thanks to CQN for the comments – It does seem to me we will see two types of performances from this team. Even way back in pre-season friendlies when we saw the sizzzzzzzzle in West London dampened on the Tyne.
If teams play football – especially a good passing game – against us we look ineffectual. We know this team can play football and score goals but until we stop good teams playing we will struggle. We have the players to break-up the opposition play Brown, Hartley and Caldwell (in midfield) come to mind, if we don’t work harder on this expect convincing performances against the majority of SPL opposition and more unconvincing performances against in-form SPL teams and UCL opposition.
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TTTT,
I would go along with your team for certain games.
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Kano
Agree with you that Naylor was not to blame for any of the goals yesterday, but I thought at the time that he could have done more to prevent the second. He was caught ball watching - a fairly typical error among my U13 team - as Caldwell fluffed his headed clearance and his man was the one who had time to collect the ball, steady himself and fire a great shot past Boruc.
Naylor needs to get his act together - I know he can do better - but he is making too many mistakes caused by bad concentration. To his credit he never hides during a game and always makes himself available.
The coaching staff need to work with him on his crossing. He gets into some great positions on the field but he has a tendency to loop crosses into the box rather than fire balls directly at our forwards. Look at Doumbe's delivery leading up to Aidens goal. Nightmare cross for a defender to cope with which JVOH made the most of.
Part of the issue could be lack of competition in the squad for the left back position.
Anyway, I hope Naylor get's back on form soon otherwise the crowd are going to turn on him. A goal in the next game from him would do wonders.
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Elements of Kano,TTTT,yogi malone 19's posts i agree/ disagree with.
Here's ma take.
Yesterdays game any team in the world would have found it hard with Arthur throwing two in.
We lost a game that we controlled because of two monumental blunders.
I want to see Naka and Aiden play in the majority of our fixtures,we are good enough to WIN and entertain and look vulnarable in these games.
However away in Europe,away Huns i would change.
Lets look at an up coming fixture what would you guys do for the Rangers game.
This is what i would do.
Take care of Alan Hutton.(why?source of much danger,see Stuggart for evidence)
How? 1.load up on his side.or
2.Show him inside for the crunch
Who gets sacrificed against Rangers ?
Naka or Aiden,Naka or Aiden and Jan ?
I would be tempted to play 4 1 4 1
Hartely in front of the back four
Midfield four of
Brown Sno/Donati Aiden
McDonald.
My thinking,Hartely roving sweeping crunchin(Hutton)
Brown on the right with Doumbe behind.
Aiden to occupy Hutton when we attack.
My doubt centres around Sno's lack of games/match sharpness.
I would be interested to hear how some of you guys would approach the above game.
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Somebody said try Aiden on the right while Naka is knackered. All I can say is Republic of Ireland.
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Kano - it's only based on what is available at the moment, with the home leg against Milan and the away games at Benfica and Mordor in mind.
Anyone know when Teddy B is due back from injury? Would give us another midfield option.
Sno needs to be developed gradually.
Too early for Caddis, so what other full-back options are there?
I've thought about Bobo, particularly at Mordor to counter their prolific use of elbows when going for high balls. Then I think about him giving the ball away against ManU and I shudder!
O'Dea and Mick are both left-footed which could lead to problems, but it would be infintely preferable to the return of Elvis.
I thought that our squad was much stronger than TFOD, but now I'm not so sure....
TTTT
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The approach to the 90-minute hate might depend on what happens between now and then.If we fall further behind there may be more urgency to try and get the three points[and to get another monkey off el Gordo's back-the defeat of the Cardigan.Our manager has got more monkeys on his back than David Attenborough with a sackful of bananas.]
If we are no worse off,or are back in front,then a draw will suffice.
Or we could go for the draw,if we're still level with say 15 mins left,bring on Naka for the killer freekick.
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Yogi,have just watched the goals against us again.
The first goal there is a good tackle by Lee Naylor on the touch line,which gives possesion to Massimo Donati,he is quickly dispossessed,1 pass to the Hibs player who shoots from all of thirty yards,there is a slight deflection,but the ball bobbles up and over Artur,loss of possession by Donati,and howler from Artur lead DIRECTLY to loss of goal.
Second goal,Lee Naylor is up against two attackers,the ball is played wide he tries to cover the cross but fails to block it,ricochet in the box,goes straight up in the air,Gary Caldwell misplaces a header straight to the feet of the Hibernian player who is so surprised he miscontrols it,knocks it in front of himself and past Lee Naylor then shoots home from a tight angle.
Any one of Caldwell,Naylor and Artur could have done much better.
Would say that Caldwell made the major error of heading it straight at a Hibs players feet in the box.
Third goal.McGeady dispossesed,played to player in front of Lee Naylor who keeps possesion and backheels it to Hibs player who shoots.Ball going wide until Artur decides to go for it and knock it back into play on the Hibs players toe two yards from goal.
Blame Lee Naylor,certainly isn't a statement which jumps into my head watching that one either!!!
I won't do the link,but here is the address you can see it at.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBqdVeyj_iE&NR=1
I suggest you watch it,and then I suggest you watch it again.
Then I suggest you look for some other reason for your Lee Naylor abuse,because there is certainly no reason for it in the three goals scored against us on Sunday.
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Bhoy Molloy,
I'll raise you a Stan Staunton to your Aiden McGeady. A man of complete ineptitude, he clearly instructed Aiden to hug the touchline and then has him completely isolated when x defenders are around him to crowd him out.
I'd like to think we could attack as a unit, switching players around to keep the opposition on their toes rather than having someone stand in Gaelic Football mode, in their territory.
Hail hail
Wavy
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Yogisannies...agree with you. we are not firing as a team. it seems we are playing well in fits and starts. some of the cracks have been hidden by victories over run of the mill SPL opposition.
I'm not complaining about the gubbings we've handed out lately - far from it !!!
The team were criticised last year for not killing the little guys off , so it's good to see this has been addressed :)
I'd like to think the defence will be strengthened in the next window. Midfield will benefit from the support of a stronger back four unit. It would also spur the current defence, as they'd have some competition for the starting jersey. Always good to have , imo.
I'd hate to see us go back to the bad old days of the sieve :-0
Hail Hail !
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mncelt,agree with all of that.
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TTTT,we have less personell in midfield than I thought too.
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Hello ,
Just passed a packed cage on the way down as i head in the opposite direction.
Some of our dispalys this season have been a significant improvement on last,however far be it from me to come up here and start an arguement but,i can't help but ask myself how much bearing do these displays have in relation to Tommy Burns and his input to coaching, because recent displays remind me greatly of his tenure as manager.Great going forward but leaking at the back.Just a thought though.
Yesterday we were undone by two blunders.
I was happy we controlled much of the game but there you are, our biggest saviour especially in recent games had a howler.
Whether or not we rate Lee Naylor i still say we need a better left back,and just not on the basis of yesterays display.It is also not my remit to find a better one.
So having had abreath of air i'm off back down a packed mineshaft.
Hail Hail
JonG
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Can't read the posts, Paul. Don't have the time. Felt you summed up things fairly well.
I wanted to say that I agreed with those who complained about the banner yesterday. It demeans us to produce something like that and from I have read, how we treated Hibs at our very beginnings doesn't bear too close examination.
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antibes
Totally agree when we lose like Sunday the 5-0's mean less and less.
It was posted on here that even in the
Hearts and ICT St M, hammerings the signs in defence were ominous for Shaktar and the first half against Spartak.
Now Hibs (boruc gaffs apart) still gave us a torrid time.
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Regarding Mr McGeady, Is anyone else of the opinion that he would be better played through the middle?
I'd love to see him running at central defenders the way he does against right backs.
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No consolation for ourselves,or the Dunghillers-
Shakhtar Donetsk 4 Dnipro 1 at the weekend.
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DontB,
’The approach to the 90-minute hate might depend on what happens between now and then’
Agreed but I have yet to see this current squad playing a convincing defensive game, could we go to mordox and defend for 90 minutes – when we couldn’t do it in the Ukraine for 5?
TTTT team seems to have a lot of merit, we need to strengthen midfield to me that means Aiden and Naka should be played together in rare occasions.
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Yogisannies - "Totally agree when we lose like Sunday the 5-0's mean less and less".
Big Wavy - "Yep. Me too. Like a lover scorned I feel like that those victories were like a big cheap come-on when all along they'd planned to publically humiliate me" :)
Yogisannies - "Now Hibs (boruc gaffs apart) still gave us a torrid time".
Big Wavy - Did they really ? Two long-range shots that the keeper fumbled (second one heading wide) dreadfully and a penalty box stramash that we inflicted upon ourselves. Did I really miss this torrid time we got yesterday from the ordinary Hibees ?
Guys. Bad bad day at the office yesterday and a defence that needs sorted agreed, but a wee bit of season-to-date perspective please eh ?
Big Wavy
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kanine
Glad to have annoyed you enough for you to dig out the re run of the game. Normally scroll past your posts as your antipodean letters from australia, don't float my boat.
However, I resemble, deeply your remark about 'abuse' when i simply critique a players ability.
I've said it before and I'll say it again lee naylor is having a continual nightmare which lasts from one game to the next.
That is not "abuse" just a simple plain fact of life we Celtic fans, have the perfect right to tap out on our keyboards. Sorry it it gets up your nose. I hope he settles down to some kind of form soon given that we have no obvious alternative natural left back, that will stop it lookin as if Celtic Fans were singling him out for unfair critique.
You're right about a sequence of events at each goal but he was in there and culpable and unlike you i don't need to watch the game again.
last word g'day
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Marty,
I would also like to see McGeady played through the middle on occasion. He did very well there in the San Siro, I seem to remember.
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Kano,
excellent post - the very long one!
I agree, Paul Hartley has been MOM for me for the last two games.
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big wavy
maybe i just had a torrid time watching it, especially from when john collins made the tactical change which saw hibs pouring down on our left and taking the half time lead again. the tv commentators described it as a thriller, and methinks some celtic fans maybe only see what celtic were doing and not hibs?
anyway any celtic defeat is torrid.
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Yogissannies...
I think you need to go away and have a think about what the difference is between 'fact' and 'opinion'.
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"anyway any celtic defeat is torrid"
Absolutely spot on.
Hail hail
Big Wavy
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miketw10
no you again - pray do tell
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My tuppence from the end of the last post - my thoughts have not changed though. The only thing I would add is I felt bad for DR being put on with about 2 mins to go - but he still managed to test their goalie with his first touch and yet Vennegoor stayed on the pitch?
Evolution
Unstoppable
Predisposition
Life will throw up variants to the genetic norm...
Happy shafters
Mine clappers
Whatever Gordon should or should not have done - and me and my mate discussed this at length last night - I cannot move away from the fact that without Artur's aberrations we win 2-1. And I certainly cannot go anywhere near slagging him after his imperious displays for us - game after game after game after game after game...
I'd rather, as I said last night, Artur had all his mistakes in one game rather than over two or three.
A few of the team should be embarassed when they check their bank accounts this week because they simply did not earn their coin.
I travel hopefully but sometimes I'm clappy without the happy. Like today. But I could not care less for the result at Ibrox being a measuring stick for our Celtic team - I'll leave that until October, if I may.
Accept or reject...
Seems I'm genetically predisposed to accept.
Tiocfaidh Ár Lá
I just hope it isn't in January
UMcG
God Bless All Here
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Chairbhoy,
excellent post.
I fully expect to see Stephen Pressley restored to playing alongside Mc Manus as soon as GS has an excuse to drop Caldwell.The thinking being that is we lack defensive experience. That´s why Telfer survived as being more than a stop gap. Pressley fits the bill and like Telfer is well liked by WGS.
Aiden Mc Geady is a work in progress. If Staunton had left Mc Geady on then the last minute goal scored by the Slovakian guy that Mc Geady had shadowed defensively all night may not have been scored. He´s getting better at tracking back but he still not getting the head up and releasing the ball when he should.
Mc Geady loses possession far far far too much to be played through the middle.
Considering that Mac Donald has yet to score and is looking increasingly frustrated and unnecessarily greedy (imho). You really have to ask. What does Zurawski and Riordhan think about it all ? how many games now ? DO you think they have a sense of Deja Vu about this and along with O´ Dea, Deek must be looking for an exit this Christmas likewise Zurawski.
I reckon the team we saw yesterday is how we will start against AC Milan if Naka doesn´t recover in time.
The fact that we very rarely change our setup and method of playing makes us so vulnerable. Ask the Shakhtar coach. There seems a real lack of a PLAN B except the hoof and as Paul67 pointed out.... that´s all we´re getting after nearly 2.5 years and again Zurawski and Deek must be thinking we´re not hoof players
The lack of spending or being more precise WGS failure to bring in a
quality striker to accompany JVOH may well come home to roost by Christmas time.
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first post here goes, wish me luck;
anybody other than me think scott brown was conspicuous by his absence yesterday?
kept waiting on him getting the ball when he did
he passed it very quickly to the nearest celt, then disappeared.
please don't be too hard on me
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Chairbhoy-best book I read on holiday was the Damned United,about Clough's brief tenure of LUFC.Anyways,in one scene Norman Hunter goes up to BC at training and says'Boss,we had trouble defending corners last game-any ideas?
To which BC replies'F###s sake,you're supposed to be professional footballers-sort it out yourselves'
Celtic are also professional footballers-even the worst player in the team is capable of playing at a level we can only dream about.
We should be able to maintain our discipline and,more importantly,our concentration,so that we can go to places like Donetsk and not find ourselves out of the game after 10 minutes.
Curiously one of our best'away'performances last season was at home to Man U-we scrapped away to keep the game tight until we could hit them with the sucker punch.So they can do it.
Going out and trying to 'win' every game is laudable but not always'professional'.
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Kano:It gave me no pleasure whatsoever to warn that Rangers will win the SPL unless Gordon Strachan sorts out this woeful defence.
It is a possibility (increasingly looking like a probabilty) that fills me with dread.
But I think any one with a shred of observational skills can see that our defence, partiucularly, away from home isn't good enough.
Naylor is nowhere near Celtic class and his use of the ball and crossing is embarrassing.I am not analysing him on goals conceded directly from his mistakes, but his poor overall play.
Any confidence that Naylor has is now shot because we have no cover for him and he has played when his form has gone and occasionally when he has been injured.
But he is far from the only liability.
Wilson and Caldwell are also decidedly second-rate.
McManus is the pick of the dodgiest Celtic back four I have seen since the 1990s and that should fill every Celtic fan with real fear.
How Balde can't get into this excuse for a defence fills me with apprehension about our manager's judgement.
Kano I have not come on here to jump on a mineshafters bandwagon because Celtic have lost two successive games.
I have been complaining about this defence and Strachan's failure to do anything about it ever since Artmedia.
The happy-clappers who never smell disaster until it is upon them can claim it is just a bad week or put it down to a slow start in the Ukraine or two howlers that Artur win't repeat for a season or two....
But the reality is that we won't win an SPL we should skate with with this defence.
And I can't see Celtic avoiding bottom place in the CL group thus depriving us of UEFA Cup revenue.
It is incredible that having reported a £16-17million profit and picked up £10million of CL cash that we didn't budget for that we couldn't strenghten a defence that will ultimately cost us millions in lost revenue.
It simply doesn't make either footballing or financial sense.
And if I am attacked (as usual) for pointing out the obvious by the CQNers then I can only respond by saying they are once again defending the indefencible.
What is happening at Celtic this season under Strachan, Desmond and Quinn is negligience in my book.
Once again we have thrown away a position of strength because of short-sighted prudence.
And no list of what the Celtic board has got right ( and, yes,they have undoubtedly done some excellent work over the last seven years or so) will ever convince me that their parsimony in rebuilding our major weak link in defence isn't a blunder of huge proportions.
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BigChips, I am tempted to do a Dateline 2037, looking back to 2006, the last clean sheet in an away fixture. Hmmm.
Billc, domination is not undermined by defeats; even leagues can be lost without disrupting the general flow, as happened in 1998, 2003 and 2005.
Malceye, scintillating suggests pretty football and a plethora of goals. Case rests!
Chairbhoy, we actually looked good on the ball yesterday, but you don’t win games if you leak them at the back.
Welcome praetorian. I thought Scott Brown ran purposefully a number of times and linked well with McDonald. If only he was playing in goals.
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Sean South...
Does your version of the 'obvious' include the fact (Yogissannies, take note) that we have won the league for the past 2 seasons on the trot, despite you and the rest of the doom and gloom merchants predicting that 'we're all doomed!"???
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miketw10
On this occasion I tend to agree with much of what Sean South says. I'm afraid I regard this team as no better than 50:50 to win the league this season given the way it leaks goals when under any pressure.
It strikes me that we'll probably need to score 2 if not 3 goals at Ipox as we're unlikely to keep a clean sheet.
Turning back to yesterday I was livid at our manager bringing on Derek Riordan so late in the game. How embarassing was that for the lad!
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Just wanting to clarify this whole mine shafter happy clappy thing.
For me it is not a general outlook on life as some would have us believe.
IMO
Mineshafter is someone who doesn't think WGS is the man for the job.
Happyclapper someone who thinks Gordon(peace be upon him) is the best we can have as manager.
And I don't think I am the only mineshafter who was a happyclapper when MON was here.
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Sean South,
until Rangers win the SPL and Celtic miss out on Europe then you can say I told you so.
So far this has not happened. Our dodgy defenders performed better than any other against the European Champions in February this year. It is a very inexperienced defence agreed but I have high hopes for Mc Manus, O´Dea, Kennedy and Caldwell but all are CB´s. I think Naylor needs a break. He´s been playing at Celtic 1st team level for over a year now and it´s beginning to show, he´s just not used to that - no disrespect to Wolves.. WGS quips of I´ll tell him when he´s tired doesn´t cut ice with anyone but I can understand given the profile of our squad why he is saying so. Again the negligence is apparent.
I´m actually more concerned with the defensive capabilites of our strikers and midfielders. WGS was talking about variation in our play yesterday but sorry I failed to see that.
If Rangers do win the SPL and we are left with the CL lottery and all the recruitment issues that that brings next summer then I dont see Celtic spending much money in the forseeable future (5 years) with regards player recruitment and I see us trying to go down the Ajax academy route. If not and we see panic buying this Januray window then we are back to the hand to mouth making up policy on the hoof that was all to evident just after Seville and the departure of MON.
Under these imaginary circumstances at this point, they cannot fire WGS and I dont see WGS walking away. However if the probability swings the way that you have predicted then
Welcome to one half of the Old-Firm neon light should be the next item of purchase on the boards agenda
Hail Hail
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EDB
I don't think wee Gordon expected to be a goal down with 3 mins to go. Why is that embarassing? Is it not common-sense to bring on another attacking option to try and get a goal back?
As someone else pointed out, it nearly worked.
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Awe_naw,
Interesting point re: Pressley, not the most popular guy at Celtic Park (with the fans) but I’m sure Gordon Strachan didn’t bring him to Celtic to be a bit part player – your prediction could well be on the money.
Got to agree re: McGeady undoubtedly a great talent but his final ball is too often poor, also against quality opposition if you get caught in possession or you’re going to be punished.
DontB,
Excellent Clough quote – we have seen from both McManus and Boruc (two of our more consistent performers) gaffs that cost us important points, while you are quite right Professional footballers should take responsibility for their performances – I can’t remember too many lacks of concentration from Clough’s teams.
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mike
In reality what was the likelihood of him achieving anything in the short time left?
If it was considered proper to give him a run out then he deserved to be on earlier.
I felt the boy was being embarassed in front of his former fans.
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Brian Clough when once asked by a young player what the difference between skill and talent was. Was told. If you can bring the ball under your control immediately and have a fair idea about what you are going to do with it then your blessed with skill. If you can do that with Norman Hunter up your backside then you´ve got talent :-)
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To bring DR on with one minute left was astonishing.
He should have been on instead of Killen or for that matter in place of JVH who was innefective.To play the two men up signals long ball tactic and Hibs were well up for it.
I believe Riordan should have started the match.He would have loved the opportunity to put one over on some of his former mates.
I see no logic in such a late introduction.What was expected of the lad at that stage,hardly enough time to draw wind far less get up to speed with the pace of the game.
No, a desperately futile decision.
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Sean South,
It would be churlish not to agree that the defence is a cause for concern - we are still looking for the right partner for McManus, and Naylor has been poor all season so far. I do agree this ideally should have been addressed, and we may regret not doing so.
However, have to take issue with a couple of points. The defence you have criticised since Artmedia, and will not win the SPL, has in fact done so. Twice.
Also, I disagree with yourself and some other posters in their wish to see Balde back. Bobo, great player as he was at one time, was indeed as culpable as any for the Artmedia fiasco. And my memory of the last six months of his regular first team action was that he was a liability.
A quality centre half is obviously needed, however I would rather stick with Caldwell, Kennedy, Pressley or O'Dea at the moment before resorting to Balde.
Just an aside - does anyone else think that Sno might have centre back credentials?
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"Boruc should not get away with it"
Radio Clyde (big DJ and Mark wotsit) in full voice calling for punitive action to be taken against Artur for his defensive blunders, oops strike that, for his gestures towards the Hibs fans yesterday.
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EDB
I fail to understand your logic!
Do you reckon we should maybe have shored up the defence with a couple of minutes to go? (Honestly not trying to be facetious here - For a change)
You're suggesting something dark, which I fail to see what the purpose would be!
Do you not think maybe wee Gordon said to him something along the lines of "Right we're a goal down now, away on and make a hero of yourself!"
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miketw10
duly noted
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EDB
Re Riordan
Don't quite get your point I'm afraid. Hibs had just scored to make it 3-2 with only minutes left on the clock. WGS (like virtually every other manager does at this point) throws on another attacker in a desperate attempt to sneak a goal.
If you think he wanted to embarrass Deek, he could have put Zurawski on.
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LLU
I'm sure I can recall that when big Evander was signed, he was described as a Defensive-Minded Midielder cum Centre-Back.
Just as I recall JJPD being described as a Full-Back who could operate on either side of the defence. Even in the Centre of Defence if required. Which is why I get confused when people constantly say that we don't have left-sided full-back cover, and suggesting Mark Wilson to go left.
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Sean South
I and many others agree with you whole heartedly. Unfortunatley others on this sight dismiss forward thinking as mineshafting.
Celtic have, once again, failed to strenghen from a position of dominance and for the first time this season we are being punished for poor defending starting in the middle of the park.
Our luck ran out.
Now, i'm not critisizing the players - but i am critical of the management and board for not getting the balance right. I've said since day one on this site that we need to get power and character into this young team.
Until we do this we will be competing in the SPL and pull off the occassional surprise win in the Champs league.
rather than driving forward we are waiting for Rangers to catch up
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miketw10/Lisbon Lions Upper
on Clyde2
We'll just have to differ on this one.
IMO there was merit in giving the lad a longer run out rather than "a desperate attempt to sneak a goal".
Anyway, have a good evening. Just listening to AWB on Clyde2.
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Yogi...
Always happy to oblige... P0) and what happened to your 'surname'???
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miketw10
Apparently JJPD as it transpires, has never played
left back for any club he has ever played.
This was a piece of pure propaganda attributable to a certain football agent of some notoriety, called Willie McKay.
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miketw10
don't know other than sometimes my sannies appear to be off LOL :)
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EDB
There is a case to be made for bringing him on earlier, I agree.
But I just don't get why you think us trying to get a goal back is trying to embarrass the boy.
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miketw10
Re Sno, that's what I thought. Just think he might have the attributes of a reasonable Centre Half, although this is basically based on his physical appearance and an uneducated hunch from how he plays the game.....
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Paul we must have watched two diferent games. Hibs were the fitter, faster and better team yesterday. Yes Boruc made mistakes but we were weak all over the pitch.
Lisbon lions upper
Sno is slower than a week in the jail. Let him stick to being a midfield player. He looks like he could be a big star for us there.
Miketw10 & EDB
Whilst i see arguments for both points strachan has previous with riordan. The lad deserves a chance and he is not getting it.
We now have to rely on the ability of our coaches to try and get this shambles of a defence organised.
Naylor needs a rest and hopefully he will come back to his best.
Doumbe is all we have at right back now so i guess he plays.
Balde must be brought back he is the best centre half we have and this mexican standoff is harming both parties.
What's the issue paul. Why is a good player being kept out of the team by players like caldwell and mcmanus?
Anyone know where joe philipo played was he a left back?
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Just as it gets interesting, I've got to go.
Got a meeting about setting up a new band, which I'm quite excited about. So I'll be out out all night.
Don't get too depressed online tonight and keep yer collective chins up!!! We ain't lost the league yet, and we're till in with a chance of winning the CL!!!!!! 80) I can dream, can't I?
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Sean South
Excellent summary,we have a collection of average to ok defenders,any one or two of them could play along side two class defenders and be ok,any four together spells disaster.
It is also obvious that the posters who think that Evander Sno could play CB need to consider the implications he is six foot plus cannot jump or head the ball,does not tackle very well and has a lack of pace,he will never be a regular in the first team
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gweedorebhoy
Think it was Joe Philippi but haven't tracked him down yet. Did he play for Ayr at one time?
You're too young to remember him surely?
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Gweedorebhoy,
Fair comment on Sno, although if he is indeed slower than a week im the jail, than I can't see him being a big star in the midfield.
As for Bobo, as per my earlier posts i'm afraid I can't agree. Best days were behind him when he got on the plane back from Seville. I agree in that I am unconvinced about Caldwell, but for me McManus is the best centre half in Scotland. Yes Shaktar was poor, but even the best in the world have poor games. Moscow, Milan and Paris are examples of McManus as outstanding.
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There were Rangers fans who thought Gattuso and van Bronkhorst were diddies. We have fans who think Sno, McManus and McGeady are equally poor.
It's all just fan opinion and nothing whatever to do with fact.
Those who rate players professionally in the big leagues of the world have already expressed their admiration for these players and some may have already inquired about whether a bid may be welcomed.
I fail to comprehend how in any parralel universe, the worst defence we've had since the 90's have performed so admirably in Europe. Do we remember our European performances for 15 years pre-MON? Unless the rest of Europe are following an EC directive to take performance inhibiting drugs before a match, then there is no sensible explanation as to why such a poor bunch have shot up the European rankings, other than they are better than some people think.
Of course, we can all see room for improvement but let's keep things in perspective. Hyperbole does not help an argument. It makes you sound desperate and unbalanced.
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I agree with EDB (don't say that too often). I thought Strachan humiliated Riordan in front of his former crowd by sending him on with the game virtually over.
In my book Riordan should have been on from the start in a game he would have been hungry to silence his critics.
If not on from the start he should have been used before Killen.
To pair Killen and a pedestrian JVOH played in to the hands of the big, physical home defence.
And exactly what was Strachan moaning about when he complained about the Hibs defence kicking lumps out of JVOH. Didn't really see that one.
If it had been Hartson or Sutton they would have given as good as they got and answered by sticking the ball in the net.
I am afird JVOH isn't going to get the haul of goals that a main Celtic striker needs to keep his place (i.e. 20 to 25).
Lisbon Lions Upper:Yes we won the SPL in the last two season with a sub-standard defence but we were given a big hand along the way by Hearts pressing the self-destruct button and Rangers imploding.
This time Rangers have got a good manager in place and have put together an experienced, physical team who showed against Stuttgart that they can also play a little bit too.
The four games against Rangers are vital and my major concern is that we will have to score at least two goals in each match to have any chance of winning with this defence.
I am not saying Balde is the ideal choice but he has rarely let us down in a Rangers match.
And, while that can't always be said about Europe, he has had some massive matches in the CL.
When we beat Man U and kept a rare clean sheet he frightened the likes of Saha and co ( as well as 50,000-plus Celtic fans at times.)
I would bring him back against Milan and use O'Dea at left back instead of Naylor.
I don't like moving centre back to the full back slots but we have little option because an out of the touch Naylor will get murdered because AC lke Spartak and Shakhtar will have dome their homework on his vulnerability.
I also think we need to have an extra holding player in midfield and I would bring back Sno for that role.
My team would be in 4-5-1 formation:
Boruc;
Doumbe, Balde,McManus, O'Dea;
Nakamure, Brown, Sno, Donati, Hartley;
McDonald.
I would also use either Riordan or McGeady depending on the circumstances.
To finish on an upbeat note after a depressing week, I think that side and formation could get at least a draw against AC Milan.
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The supposed failures of various players yesterday have been very carefully analysed by better posters than T and blame apportioned accordingly.
Two players, however, who gave very poor displays and yet escaped any serious criticism were Scott Brown and JVOH.
Brown caused us as much trouble as any of the midfield by miss-timed tackles, poor passing, running into players and
disappearing from the game for long periods of time.
JVOH seems slow and cumbersome, and only wins one header in five. His hold-up play has been poor all season and when he has not got the ball at his feet the opposition treat him as being invisible and just walk round him!
Some might say that I am being too critical of these two players but I know what they are capable of and they have just not shown their class against any of the 'serious' teams we have played recently.
Hail!Hail!
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Sean South
"Agree with EDB (don't say that too often)" I resisted the opportunity of that cheap jibe aimed in your direction earlier:o)
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Sean South
Can you direct me to the comments WGS made about "kicking lumps". I believe you said you were a journalist so accurate quoting should be important to you.
My recollection, as a non journalist, was that he was referring to manhandling.
Like you, I wished he hadn't said it because we've got defenders who were doing the same. But I worry about the tendency to dissect and criticise our manager's post match comments. I don't even treat them as an accurate measure of what he thinks of a match. They're just a contractual obligation and should not be treated as gospel. Wenger, Mourinho and Swalex also speak some keech after games but they're still good managers.
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Paul67,
Interesting post but at the end of the day we have nobody else to blame for this than ourselves.
We have known for nearly a year and a bit now that the defence was not good enough. Although Boruc was at fault for the goals, Caldwell could have got the ball away for their second. Both him and Mick are all over the place sometimes. It's frightening!!
Full backs just now ar abysmal. Been a Naylor supporter through this slump he is having having but he seems not to be able to overcome his lack of poor form.
As i said last night many combinations have been tried with big Mick but we aint secure. Problem is he is our captain now so he aint going to be dropped. We must get behind him. Although i would prefer new personnel in.
I think big Mick is becoming our very own Barry Ferguson in that he is a decent player no denying but he is no great shakes ie a Mjallby, Rieper, etc..
I think Gordon will regret not bolstering the defence in the summer. Then again was he allowed to? If so then questions must be asked!! He aint a stupid guy he must see this. If not then PL and BQ have let him down badly.
I just hope we get to January with no consequence. The first Old Firm is very important for us now. We must not lose. If we do then we are giving Rangers a boost. A boost that might rally them to believe that they can topple us this year.
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Joe phillipi.Signed late 70s £60,000 from Ayr Utd.
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gweedorebhoy & EDB...
Joe Filippi?
He was a right back signed from Ayr United after Danny McGrain suffered an ankle injury at the start of the dreaded 1977/1978 season.
I believe we "swapped" him for Brian McLaughlin. Brian was a very promising young player whose career was effectively ended by a horrendous challenge by Willie McVie of Clyde.
Big Jock actually carried Brian off the field that day.
Unfortunately Joe just couldn't fill Danny's boots, then again who could?
Alan Sneddon ousted him from the right back spot eventually.
On a sad note,I believe that Joe was related (possibly the uncle) to the young lad, Mark Scott, who was murdered at Bridgeton Cross in 1995 coming home from a Celtic v Partick Thistle match at Celtic Park.
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SFTB:Lighten up, mate. I wasn't directly quoting Strachan.If I had been I would have used quotation marks.
I was paraphrasing from his Setanta interview in which he claimed JVOH did well to keep his temper from what he clearly stated were rough-house or man-handling tactics from the Hibs defence.
"Kicking lumps......" ia clearly my expression and my interpretation of what he implied.
It is a phrase routinely used by many football fans and wasn't meant to be taken literally or to undermine our manager.
I think your point borders on the pedantic.
My point was that I couldn't see where Gordon Strachan was coming from as I don't think JVOH was dealt with any more harshly than the physical stuff dished out by McManus and Caldwell to the Hibs strikers- one of whom had to be carried off because of a strong but fair McManus challenge.
Mf feeling is that Strachan's verdict sounded too much like excuse-making on a day of defeat when JVOH looked like a big softie and was as slow and pedestrian as a carthorse.
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Sean South : I agree with EDB (don't say that too often). I thought Strachan humiliated Riordan in front of his former crowd by sending him on with the game virtually over.
Big Wavy : Thought a reasonably obvious answer was given to this. 9 out of 10 cats would probably say it was a game chasing decision to steal a goal at the end. You persist with the unfounded humiliation angle with no substance.
To pair Killen and a pedestrian JVOH played in to the hands of the big, physical home defence.
Big Wavy : Agree on that one but doesn't correlate with a fingers up to Riordan in my book.
To finish on an upbeat note after a depressing week, I think that side and formation could get at least a draw against AC Milan.
Big Wavy : Wow that upbeatness must of hurt...real bad :)
Big Wavy
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Seems like all the closet huns from last night have headed back to FF following their wee gloating spree.
Now we have an anti-Celtic "journalist" who can't spell and only ever pokes his head above the foxhole when Celtic take a gubbing.
Can't believe you have the brassneck to show yourself after your"meet me outside the main stand before the AC game and I'll show you why Gweedorebhoy is a pacifist" cyber-bullying dross.
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Kano, hi.........
Going to kip in a min............but hey, repeat idea, what about players in their correct positions.......i.e. right footed wingers!!!!!!! on the right and left footed wide players on the left?
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXS in the Box.....
Keep coming back to this I know but betya JVOH would buy it......
and me!!!!!!!!
Today... St. Ceolfrid Ab,.....
WG, What you know?
TBM
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I heard from Noel today. He popped out of The Priory this morning and headed straight for CQN.
Poor fellow was re-admitted right away.
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The way we started the game against Hibs took me back to my youth - we really looked like knocking seven shades out of them much to my surprise and delight.
Cue disaster from Artur and suddenly we are chasing the game.
In all honesty, if the defence can reduce the opposition to 25 yard and 30 yard pot shots then we should have no problems - so maybe we are over analysing and going overtime on the self flaggelation?
I would agree with an earlier poster that Scott Brown was a disappointment yesterday - looked to me like he wanted it too much and subsequently chose too many bad options. Scott McDonald was similar.
We will play worse and win - frequently.
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The Huns will win the league by at least 15 points.
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Sir Paul......
Trouble @ Parkhead on the Clyde.
How to fix?
Easy!....if the Celtic Technical Back Room Boys ,would be so alert as to listen to a spot of uncommon sense... here it is.
O.K,Boys?
Eyes down look in:
The Art of Scoring,according to Ole Blue Eyes...(Huh?....ed)( Check that... wrong dissertation!)
The Art of Creating Goals ( Bettah!...ed)
First thing.
Lose the "Big Kick and Rush" principle.
Defenders should adhere strictly to their Raison D'Etre...
That is ..... TO DEFEND!
They are after all.....DEFENDERS!
The Wing-Back Designation, shall cease to exist!
All defenders shall remain in their half of the field at ALL TIMES......
Exceptions to this, being made only at certain SET-PIECES and CORNER KICKS,which when taken,should be aimed at their opponents, PENALTY SPOT AREA!!!
Any forward passes made by the Defensive Team...
SHALL BE, IN MOST CASES, made DOWN EITHER FLANK... DIRECTED AT EITHER OF THE TWO WINGMEN!
No more lofting the ball into the Center of the Park.
This method of attack, is so speculative,that it makes Jay Gould's Market raids, look more like the behaviour of an Aberdonian, on vacation.
To continue.
It is gainst all reason, to fire High speculative Balls down the MIDDLE OF THE PARK.
It is SHEER Profligacy!...A PURE Unadulterated, Undiluted waste of Time and Energy!
Accuracy of the Pass:
Probably the MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE ART,which is under discussion,comes NEXT...
A Player, unless under severe and unrelenting pressure....
MUST ALWAYS MAKE SURE THAT HIS PASS, REACHES A COLLEAGUE... Not just any COLLEAGUE, but one who is so positioned, as to mount a dangerous sortie into a vulnerable area of the opposition, thereby, creating consternation and panic in the ranks of our opponents.
Notice... this salient point.
KEEP THE FOOTBALL ON THE CARPET, while endeavouring to Breach the Opposing Defensive Set-UP.
Employ the services of TWO Outright, Wingmen.
That is the TITLE of their job designation, and that will be what that are.
These two players, will STRICTlY PATROL their respective wings.
Eagerly, awaiting the pass from the Defenders and from any of the MID-FIELDERS.
It goes without saying,but nevertheless, I shall.
Both WINGERS MUST BE THOROUGHLY SKILLED IN THE ART OF SENDING OVER AN ACCURATE , DANGEROUS CROSS... WHICH IS DIRECTED SOLELY AT A COLLEAGUE.
A WINGMAN must POSSESS THE ABOVE TALENT.
Anything less than the specified, shall be deemed unacceptable
When a WINGER shall receive a pass, he will make tracks....
DOWN HIS OWN WING.
His desired destination shall, ideally, be the opposition's BYELINE,where he shall FIRE A HARD LOW CROSS/PASS, towards his opponents SIX YARD LINE.....
Nota Bene.
MID-FIEDERS TASK:
First and FOREMOST... only BOX TO BOX TYPE MID-FIELDERS MAY APPLY.
Their task is to Penetrate and also DRAW, the OPPOSITION DEFENDERS out of their DEFENSIVE ZONES, ... Cracking and opening up GAPS in their DEFENSIVE CURTAIN... and also spraying telling and damaging FORWARD PASSES, to any colleague who is in a Favorable Scoring Position.
Center Forward....
Mainly to place himself in the most Favorable SCORING POSITION that he can, in order to receive the telling assist, from one of his comrades.
His job is not to attempt to joust or duel with the opposing Center Half... One of the CENTER FORWARD'S TASKS, IS TO DRAW HIS SHADOWER, OUT OF THE CENTER OF THE PARK...A very important task
This dissertation is meant to be far from the finished article...as time does not permit, to fully explain, the whole blue-print to achieve..
Scoring SUCCESS.
But, I have given my Readers, enough grist for their Collective Intellectual Mills...to be processed, as they individually see fit.
Mull over the contents of my submission...
And feel free to...
Criticise, APPROVE...which is highly unlikely... Disapprove.... which is highly LIKELY...
But above all, present your comments in a fair and intelligent fashion.
I will have no truck with Rude and
Uncouth DISSENTERS... whose Remarks, shall be ignored by the management.
Kojo.
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Evenin all.
Haven't really had time to read over everyones's post, just a quick after match scan. I see the Lee Naylor haters are out in force again. He is not playing well at the moment, but no way was he the worst player on the park yesterday and no way was he to blame for any of the goals. Nor did he get any defensive help from McGeady. My opinion for what it's worth, coming up.
Bottom line, goalie had a nightmare and chipped two goals.He probably should have come out and collected the high ball at the second goal as well.
Brown and Donati were the most disappointing. Against a very average Hibs midfield, they were way too languid in their approach. Should have been more dominant.
JVOH is probably as poor right now as Lee Naylor, but tap in goals aginst poorer opposition are saving him. MacDonald I thought played well again and was a touch unlucky a couple of times. He should have stayed on with Killen.
But for the Artur factor, I believe we would have won. We started well but the first goal had the defence wondering about the keeper all day. Let's hope he has got all his mistakes for the season out of his system in one game.
Hail hail.
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Shaktar (top of league)4 Opponents 1
Stuttgart (close to bottom) 1 Opponents 4
These results I believe highlight how difficult our CL start was.
Plus Easter Road is our hardest SPL fixture outside of the derby.
Individual errors or not we would have lost in the Ukrane. It was just "unfortunate" it was compounded by Boruc's errors yesterday. Which put us on the back foot after starting so positively.
Our defence (young defence) since the departure of Lenny and the demise (premature) of Balde needs some help. Sno and Hartley sitting in front with licence to support the forwards would be a possible solution in away matches.
Maybe just maybe things are not as dark as people here would like to believe. Thankfully it's 2007 not 1996.
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Spanish Inquisition
Give it a rest with the hun accusations. there are no huns on here(apart from Edward). There may be plently who are overly critical of the Celtic team but do so with the best of intentions.
You may have a point about some people posting only when Celtic lose but thats because feelings and passions run strong when the team loses compelling some to make a point of coming on here. That doesnt make them huns .
Try adding something to the debate, you never know you may enjoy it.
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EDB.
I take it you are at the wind-up with the 15 points post?
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EDB - behave yourself!
We're in for a ding-dong battle for the title and the top spot will change hands a number of times during the season.
They are not good enough to go that far ahead anyway.
Like you I was gutted about the transfer window, but Paul had already dropped hints about their "gamble" and our ability to react to it.
We have never kicked them when they are down and we might have missed the chance again. It's almost like we need to keep them in the game for commercial reasons....
Keep yer chin up & Keep The Faith.
TTTT
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The Spanish Inquisition: You perfectly encapsulate the CQN happy-clappers mentality that brands anyone who has an alternative view on Celtic as being "anti-Celtic."
Any examination of my Celtic supporting credentials will stand up to the most rigid of examinations- even though I should not have to defend them on a Celtic message board.
I have supported this club for more than 50 years and was in Lisbon, Milan and Seville at our three European finals.
That I believe gives me the right to an opinion on Celtic exactly the same as any other fan.
It's a case of one man, one opinion. No more, no less.
The way I earn my living has nothing to do with my status as a Celtic fan ond neither does it invalidate my opinion.
Maybe my spelling has a relevance to my job. But the literals today are more to do with clumsy fingers on a mobile phone rather than my lack of a spell-checker.
But the accusation of cyber-bullying is ridiculous and insulting.
I replied a couple of weeks using irony and sarcasm to mimic a spat between Gweedorebhoy and another poster in which a threat appeared to be made.
I was trying to make light of the situation by making a joke of the row.
Some people simply didn't get the the use of irony so I immediately apologised to anyone who took my post as a threat and pointed out that I am not even going to the AC Milan game.
The frequency of my posts do increase when things are not going well for Celtic- that is due to concern and love for a club that is a huge part of my life. Absolutely nothing to do with trying to create an "anti-Celtic agenda.
I think it is a human reaction that football fans will be more vocal when things are going wrong- just ask Paul67 about the volume of posts after Black Sunday, Artmedia or Clyde.
Sadly, people like Spanish Inquistion believe that this board is only for happy clappers who have totally abandoned their critical faculties.
I hope CQN remains an open church where people of all persuasions and opinions can engage in lively debate and banter without being branded as "anti-Celtic."
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Kojo, careful, such practical tones sound familiar. I once heard an Ulster accent.....
TTTT, EDB must have been on the sherry.
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I guess its all about opinions but I've just seen the match for the first time.
Boruc- Howlers, it happens he'll get over it
JJPD good enough performance
Caldwell distribution woeful and at fault for the second goal.
McManus - I know the McManus haters on here but IMHO he was one of the better performers yesterday.
Naylor- Poor form continues but it appears Strachan will not give O'Dea or anyone else a chance
Donati- disgraceful- jogging back into position with his back to the game whilst hibs were attacking. Pedestrian doesn't begin to describe him.
Brown too little and ineffectual
Hartley Passable
McGeady one of the better performers. some poor final balls but never stopped trying and great goal
McDonald - Desperation showing but not lacking in effort
JVoH- another under achiever- must do better.
I have been a massive supporter of Strachan but I think he is making a few critical tactical errors just now. Playing Hartley wide against Donetsk was one and Yesterday
Why is it McDonald who was withdrawn?
What did he expect Deek to do with 2 min to go?
Why was Donati not subbed after the first Half-Collins was not scared to change things?
Why is Lee Naylor not getting a rest?
Why is Balde not earning some 0f his paycheck?
Whilst I have always liked Strachan's contempt for the media I feel that his obstinacy is starting to give the impression that he thinks that he is the only one who knows anything about football and all other opinions are irrelevant. That level of arrogance can backfire badly for all of us.
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Kojo,
When Scott McDonald was withdrawn during the game yesterday in favour of Chris Killen, we automatically changed our style of play.
We threw more high balls into the Hibs penalty box holing that one of the two big men would manage to get something from the high ball.
There was more chance of me getting something from the ball as our two big front men.
I commented to Paul at the time that those tactics would bring us nothing.
Such balls, especially thrown in from the half way line will always be a 75- 25% in favour of the defender.
The Hibs defence just stood there and mopped them up the whole second half.
The last time we did this was in the last quarter of the opening game of the season against Kilmarnock.
There too, the defence was always the winner.
When we play the ball on the deck, we play football, create chances and score goals.
I utterly hate the tactic of defenders throwning high crosses to the front men from the half way line; all it really does is give away possession.
STAND UP FOR THE CHAMPIONS,
Martin.
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Sir Paul...
Hum and Haw...!
MMMMMMM!
I just canny get ANYTHING... PAST YE!
It's Jist no FAIR!
Kojo
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Paul
Sorry you think so little of me. I'm more Port than Sherry:o(
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paul
wa,s wi the ulster accent thing no big yin gie a grip jings :)
no wonder the emperor hadrian built that bloody wall :)
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ok again
anybody know good bar in amsterdam for the ac game where people of like mind might be found ? :)
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Sean South
Just back from watching the blood & snotters tie between Linfield and Cliftonville and I've just caught your reply.
I don't buy your argument that kicking lumps is an acceptable paraphrase of the charge WGS made against the Hibs defence. Kicking lumps means over physical tackling. By using that phrase initially, you were implying that WGS was delusional in seeing something that nobody else did. It made your argument easier to sell by using that inaccurate phrase. If you had said "what was Strachan on about complaining of manhandling", most readers would have wondered what you were on about since JVOH was clearly and regularly manhandled by the Hibs defenders. In short you would not have had a point (apart from the one I agreed with that we should not be seen to whinge).
You call it bordering on pedantic. I call it accuracy and perspective. It's just the same as stating later that the posts of The Spanish Inquisition are "typical" of CQN views. That statement again makes it easier for you to claim martyr status as the voice of reason being hounded away by the bleating of Paul's loyal sheep.Unfortunately it is not true.
TSI's views are so typical of CQN views that he finds himself alone in making them. The only responses he has had have been critical. These have come from CQN posters with as diverse views as tiny tim, michael collins and myself.
I don't agree with posters having a go at spelling. I prefer posters on here (and journalists) to be accurate and measured in their views much more than I value accurate spelling. In any case, we all fall foul of misspelling in our haste.
It seems to me that you do come on to this board with a prejudiced view of what you are going to hear. You then filter that view through your default mode that we're all unthinkingly pro-board incapable of listening to the voices of reason and rebellion. You insult a lot of intelligent free thinkers by doing so.
For what it's worth, I welcome the alternative voice that posters like yourself and Neg Anon bring here. I'll defend you both against any attempt to chase you away. But you must be prepared to take your lumps (that's my paraphrase for robust debate BTW not an invite to hit you) in generating disagreement with your views. Any time one of us puts a view out there we accept that risk. I hope most try to disagree with good grace and humour but occasionally our blood boils over. I'll hold my hand up to that offence and, to be honest, I'll be guilty of it again in future.
So, leave the passive aggressive stuff behind and continue to make your points, read the replies carefully and don't filter it through any default prejudiced viewpoint.
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Sean South,
In the past I will admit to being a bit dismissive of the inhabitants of our mineshaft (not saying you are one of them..not to your face anyway!)
I would, shall we say lean towards the happy clappers in general, however as a realist I agree with just about every point you have made tonight regarding in particular the negligence of those in power at CP.
The parallels with Tommy burns brilliant but ultimately fruitless bhoys are becoming more and more obvious as the weeks go by.
This fills me with dread as Ive seen this movie before and so for that matter has Billy McNeill and Davie Hay. Hands tied by the board.
I am generally a fan of this board but they have lost their gamble here and if they dont do something in January the title will belong to the dark side. That is if January is not too late.
On another note can anyone recommend a particular part of Lisbon to book a hotel on the 24/5th of Oct. Any tips greatly appreciated.
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My dear,dear, Friend, Martin...
You are so right!
It hurts!(It's the truth!...ed)( Exactly! That's why it hurts!)
Honestly,Martin.. I thought of adding this to my dissertion....
"Every CELTIC PLAYER, must undergo an INTELLIGENCE TEST, BEFORE SIGNING!"
But I abondoned the idea...
If that were the case...I believe it would strain our resources, to the utmost, in fielding A STARTING ELEVEN!...owing to the paucity of Test Qualifiers!
I digress but this is a True story..that somewhat...well possibly.... well here it is anyway...
A Demonstration of Arriving at the Correct Solution, by OBSERVATION of the Relationship between....
CAUSE AND EFFECT!
During the trouble with Communist Rebels in Malaya....
The British army,used temporary Cages, made from Bamboo... to house captured Insurgents.
Under this primitive arrangement, any of the prisoners housed under these uncivilised conditions, had to draw the attention of one of the British Guards,whenever he( one of the Prisoners) had to respond to the Call of Nature.
Subsequently ,the British Guard would open the door of the Cage. Re-lock the same, and escort the anxious Prisoner into the surrounding jungle.
Two more of the Prisoners, made similar requests for relief, in the above fashion, and were also as before, escorted by the British Guard into the surrounding jungle.
As the time passed... the minutes turning to an Hour... AND NOT ONE OF THE UNFORTUNATE PRISONERS, WHO HAD BEEN ESCORTED INTO THE JUNGLE BY THE BRITISH GUARD, SHOWED ANY SIGN OF RETURN....
The rest of the Prisoners in the Cage, decided that there would be no more Requests by them, to signal to the Guard to permit them to answer the Persistant Call.
That is the true origin of the famous line...
"Now, this is another fine MESS you have got me into.... !"
It just doesn't not take TOO long to realise that, in Persisting in Some Types of Behaviour ,is not worth the CONQUENCES!!
Similarly, how many times does the Celtic Wing-Bat... at this time... LEE or MARK....
Hare down the wing... in the process...deftly avoiding one or two tackles, by opposing individuals....
and then...
The said CELTIC Wing-Back...
Leathers an AWE INSPIRING and BALLOONING OVER HIT CROSS, HIGH AND HANDSOME OVER EVERYONE'S HEAD... AND the over hit cross ending up, going for a SHY...on the opposite side of the field!
Was the Celtic Wing Backs' JOURNEY... Really a FRUITFUL ONE?
The answer is obviously beyond the ability of the above mentioned perpetrators.
Why?
Because within a few minutes, Mark or Lee will repeat this inglorious attempt again...and again ...and again..... ad infinitium.
You are so correct in your conclusion, Pal.
This type of behaviour gets old....after a while!
Kojo.
Yer pal...who thinks ye are swell.
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Paul67 @ 18:04 said
"domination is not undermined by defeats; even leagues can be lost without disrupting the general flow, as happened in 1998, 2003 and 2005."
Your logic escapes me!
Defeats lose points which in turn lose league championships or progression in the CL. Upon what is potential domination based? Football or financials?
Are the financials independent of the football? I think not. Failure to strengthen the team defensively in a period of relative financial strength is a board room gamble which could cost millions in lost CL revenue.
It seems to me that financial prudence is having a direct impact on the football side of the business. Failure in the CL campaign such that we do not make the EUFA Cup coupled with a failure to win the SPL will be a football and financial disaster.
It is aguable that the footballing gap between Celtic and other SPL teams has narrowed, with Rangers in particular now posing a credible threat to our winning the SPL. Rangers are not a great team, but then neither is Celtic. Celtic are clearly ahead of Rangers in financial terms, but we have failed to consolidate our football advantage by investing in our defence.
How much more would it have cost Celtic to meet the asking price for one or more quality defenders who were on our radar? Contrast that to how much do we stand to lose if we fail to progress in the CL and secure the SPL title.
It is true that in the last few years we have improved the team middle to front, but at little net spend. Meanwhile the defence represents a serious risk to our ambitions to move to the next level in football terms. It is either a financial gamble or a failure of management to recognise and deal with our defensive weaknesses.
"domination is not undermined by defeats" seems illogical but I would be happy to understand your thinking.
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Evening All -
Unfortunately, our best player of last season (IMHO) had a stinker yesterday, resulting in 2 gifted goals for the 2nd best footballing side in Scotland, and the 3 points staying in Edinburgh.
Sh!t happens. Every team has a howler on occasion, every keeper does as well - remember Gordon last season gifting us the points at Celtic Park. Let's get over it, and concentrate on the future - if we were stuck in the past, Black Sunday would still see me taking the pills.
Fact is however, that the team isn't good enough. We can all see that, and can only hope that those who are empowered with looking after our club in the meantime can see it, and also do something about it.
Sack Strachan, Pendry, Burns and Clark sack the board, sack the tea lady, sack those who man the food kiosks, sack everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 8-))))
Ylruc
PS sftb - I support the alternative view as well, where is p8ddy these days? Neg Anon and Sean South - keep telling it like it is.
Realistsareus.csc
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SeanSouth~
"Some people simply didn't get the the use of irony "
Maybe that's because there was none.
Backtrack all you want-your initial post was nasty,antagonistic and of a threatening nature.
Be careful what you type.
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Curly~stick to singing "Doe-A-Deer".
Or join the egg-chasers.
You obviously don't understand the round-ball game.
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billc, domination does not end if you lose a game or a league. We won the league in 1998, but Rangers still in a period of domination. Rangers won in 2003 and 2005 but we were still the dominant team.
Celtic will lose games, they will lose cups and may lose the odd league, but I still expect them to be dominant for years to come.
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TSI -
Surely getting out of bed on the wrong side still cannot be hurting at this time of day? Mmmmmm? Take an aspirin and get over whatever is hurting.
Obviously don't know who you are (although you must be the best football supporter and analyst in here by the sounds of things), however the cyber hard-ass theme doesn't come over well.
Everyone has a right to post reasoned thoughts on here (note the use of the word "reasoned" which implies that they have put some thought into it, however wrong it may or may not be to you), and to expect at least a little courtesy from fellow bloggers. The vast majority on here can post without insulting the others - try it, you never know, it might just put a smile on your face.
Lycru 8-))
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Good night all (including TSI)
Cruly
whatisoffside.csc?
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Sir Paul...
As an addition to your examples of how a loss of face, doesn't always equate to no longer being the 550 kilo Gorilla in the room.
UNCLE SAM was whipped by the VIET CONG..... Oh, YES HE WIZ!
And the same venerable relation, is in the process of being whipped by the SUNNI insurgents.
No one would dispute the fact, that UNCLE SAM is still the Silverback with the Mostest.
So, being whipped, does not necessarily mean the same as being Knocked off one's perch!
Jist ask Luigi,aboot thata one!
Kojo.
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with 24 hours to reflect on the result, it perhaps wasn't too surprising. Hibs have taken points from us a number of times over the last few years. The have been the best footballing team on their game for all of Tony mowbray's tenure and now John Collins has them playing a similar way. We will drop points again this season, and so will rangers.
What is more concerning is the way we ran out of ideas. Most of last season was spent watching balls played in high to JVOH with his back to goal. He clearly is not a target man as he has limited ability to time his jump well, and is regularly dominated by the centre back. The cross balls last year were frequently sent in by Naylor from about 35 yards out and always saw the central defender able to move forwards onto the ball. Alternatively, we see balls played in channels from the full backs or long raking passes attempted by the centre halfs which usually are picked up by the opposition.
Hibs, on the other hand, regularly play short triangles with a number of runners off the ball which stretch the opposition and provide options for the passer.
Scott brown had a poor game yesterday, but he continued to look for one-two's and did lots of running off the ball. WGS seems to have constructed a tactic which sees celtic players static on receipt of the ball with limited running when not the ball cxarrier.
The full backs seem so reluctant to commit beyond the ball carrier (unlike Shaktar's full backs never mind Hib's) so the option of spreading the opposition defence across the park is not present. We continued yesterday to try to play through the middle, with speculative balls to a centre forward who always looks as if he wasn't expecting to have to jump.
Doumbe had an OK game, but he doesn't look like a player happy to have the ball at his feet. Since we already have two full backs who can't carry the ball into space, the last thing we need is another player who passes too early. and before h has commited the tackler. All that does is leave our footballers to play 6 against 10.
Plus ca change....
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Meant to say 2 centre backs who can't carry the ball. Wilson and Naylor can, though with varying success
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Paul67 @23:30
Rangers bought their way into a period of domination within the Scottish context but failed to take the step to the next level in European terms. Ultimately this exposed their over ambitious spending policy and they have degenerated to their current level.
Good financial management over a number of years has seen Celtic's financial position and advantage over Rangers develop to its current position. I have no wish to see Celtic spend silly money in the pursuit of a dream which if it failed to materialise would cause financial meltdown.
Nevertheless I would expect the Celtic bBoard to look at the opportunity to consolidate our recent superiority in the SPL, and progress further the football side with the aim of moving to the next level in European terms. The financials suggest that the Board have been reluctant to invest more in the team - not gamble more, but invest more. The failure to strengthen the defence during the recent transfer window seems to me like an opportunity lost given in our net spend during a reported period of financial strength.
Perhaps you don't agree that the transfer window was an opportunity in which we could afford to invest in our defence, but it is not obvious what benefit is derived by delaying the investment when the money is apparently still in the coffers - we haven't spent it, have we?
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My dear friend, Billc
Budget is the name...
And staying within such, is the game!
During the Window... Pierre had to work whithin the the Budget, that was EXTANT.
His entreaties to certain very acceptable Targets, were not Accepted by the Targets.
He was therefore constrained in his aims... which where unfortunately, much higher than his Budget would allow..
Happily,owing to the Generosity of certain members of the Premier League et al... we manage to pad an extra.... 3 or 4 or even 5 Million Pounds, into this coming JANUARY'S BUDGET.
Simple, really.
Then?
We hadn't got the wherewithal... Now?
We do do have the wherewithal.
January will see us add at least one more very accepable defender.
So what's the problem?
Kojo.
Yer Pal .....forever
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Kojo - er, the problem is that we'll be out of Europe before Xmas and maybe 5 points behind a workmanlike Rankers team.
How da ya like them apples?!!
No - me neither.
TTTT
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There is a certain naiveity to those who think that but for Boruc's 2 blunders, we would have won 2-1. Where's the logic there ? If someone had marked Gary Caldwell it would have been 1-1. If someone had shoved Gary Caldwell out of the way we would have won 1-0. The fact is we never managed to get our noses in front. The fact is that we remain more vulnerable at the back now thn we ever have in the past 7 years. There is no need to repeat what the deficiencies are - these have been mentioned ad nauseum. However, it is precisely this that leans me towards agreement with Sean South that we are at a material risk of taking 2nd place in the league and of propping up the CL group.
Tell me, what team, on their own patch, should not be confident of grabbing a goal against Celtic ? The away record of no clean sheets is astounding and I cannot believe that even the most pro-Celtic individual (because I am clearly anti-Celtic !?!) is not agitated by this.
What makes this even more astonishing is Mr Strachan's approach. He was critical of MON's tactics - to quote, "There were a few times when you would see Celtic charging forward en masse and then, when the move broke down, the opposition only needing one or two passes to make life uncomfortable for them on the break...I thought the time was right to expand or redefine their approach." Well, that has been achieved - one pass or long ball into the heart of the defence makes life uncomfortable both on and off the pitch. Even on their own turf, we should be reducing Hibs, a team of youngsters or older journeymen who earn no more than 2 grand per week, to a maximum of about 5 or 6 attempts on goal (on and off target). They managed 14. Yes, we peaked at 15 but with only 2 goals in return, well that says much about the forward line, too much to discuss in this post.
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Kojo,
No issue with the principle of staying within budget, as I said I'm not looking to spend silly money. However it is clear that we remained well within budget while leaving our defence palpably weak for the campaign ahead. Surely we were not relying on players going out during the last week of the transfer window as a basis for strengthening the defence.
I can also accept that we tried to sign our targets and failed, the question remains how far short of a deal were we that it was better to put our campaign at (unnecessary) increased risk.
The problem? Two in fact:
1 - the campain may be lost in the CL and EUFA Cup by January; even the SPL campaign may have become extra difficult.
2 - and more significant, the spending gap between Celtic and teams in the English Premiership is widening at an alarming rate. Delaying investment is likely to result in our targets increasing in price with the risk that they become unaffordable and we settle for lesser players.
Reassurances that we will spend in January are welcome, though I fear that we require two quality additions at the back rather than one.
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I've asked this question a couple of times over the last few days but haven't seen any info -
What is Kennedy's situation? Is he injured or out of favour?
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My dear friend,Tommy Twists and Turns
According to your lights...
Because Celtic NOT secure more acceptable defensive cover, at the ultimate Window, it follows as night follows day, that Celtic will be OUT of the CL by Christmas!
And you also allude to the pre-destined fact... that Celtic will be dwarfed by a superior G.A. Eleven.
That distressing turn in events, being also to blame, because of lack of obtaining suitable defensive cover.
Hmmmmmm!
I always see things as they are.
And plan accordingly.
You on the other hand, see things that have not presently transpired...but are confident in your prognosticating ability of describing, the shape of things to come... and make your plans accordingly.
It is easy to see that you and I can never have a meeting of the minds.
As my very lucent thinking pal,Dom... has been known to expound...
" Sava da Applausa... Waita 'til da End!"
Kojo
Yer Pal..... 'til da end.
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malceye
Nope, no naivety. Just a realistic assumption that a goalkeeper of Artur's quality wouldn't be so culpable on any given day. They were errors so massive, the likes we haven't seen directly since maybe Caldwell 'in' Benfica. Catastrophic blunders. Now a mistake like the 2nd goal is normal and happens often - the Artur ones don't - maybe the Ehiogu goal you could argue, but it was akin to his mistake against Aberdeen which didn't cost us.
Saying we would have won but for those errors isn't naive in a 'well they wouldn't have scored 3, only 1 and we scored 2' way, just a belief that had they not been conceded, the first so early and the second so late, we would have won. We suffered two lots of horrendous misfortune and that doesn't really happen twice in one game. Other games we will be fortunate, and other mistakes can happen. I just believe we started well, then the first blunder occurred and were finishing the stronger then the second blunder. That's all.
And if you see us as a 'material risk' of finishing second, then really there is such a risk every year. I just happen to think and to believe that we are a better team than Rangers - our demolition of Hearts compared to their demolition by, for example. The first true test will be the first game against them. Won or lost, I still think and believe we will win the league.
Agitated by the away goals conceded record? Quantitatively, of course, but qualitatively we have won a very, very large percentage of those games and it included a 1-0 on neutral ground. It's brought into focus by a defeat yes, but wasn't an issue when we won 3-1 and 5-1 away.
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billc
Was injured and that allowed Caldwell back in - not 100% on the current situation.
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My dear friend,Billc...
I have to take my leave...
However...
I appreciate your difficulty in accepting the present situation re. Defensive Flaws. ...which are somewhat distressing.
But, wishing will not solve anything... and really you must accept that staying within Budget is just that...
Unfortunately Pierre was obliged to be parsimonious ...
If the Targets that he had in mind,at the Window, did not relent to his suit, because of financial short-fall?.....
What more is to be said?
Accept the fact...
We are discussing yesterday's business.
I never visit the past....it is so...so....
Over and Done
Kojo.
Yer pal...who will see you anon.
Good Evening.
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dontbrattbackinanger 15:09.
It's so long since you asked the question about the name of Cliftonville's ground that you probably forgot asking it.
Solitude is named after a solitary building ( possibly farm house) that stood on the site prior to the stadium being built in 1890.
Solitude was an enormous imposing structure when I first attended as a 7 year old in the 60's. Great to see Irish League make it on to Sky Sports.
Only a matter of time before the Ferraris are parked in Cliftonville Parade :)
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Kano
al a S.S. ditto
an amazing sense of timing
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kojo at 22.54
How unfortunate, all the wee Malayan commies shitting themselves eh?
Thank god British brutality can be used as an example of how to solve Celtic's inept full back problems.
Absolutely staggering.
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The Dundee game hasn't been switched to tonight has it? Darryl Broadfoot has an article in the Scotsman talking about "tonight's" CIS Insurance cup game against Dundee.
www.livesportontv.com show it as tomorrow.
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Mike,
click here
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Cheers Richard,
the Broadfoot gets it wrong again :)
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I see SKY text is running another Nakamura scare story. All quotes from his agent or one of them saying that he´s considering a move back to the J-league.
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Morning ahll -
did anyone (else) ever sing the Upside Down song at primary school ?
WonderinGemmell
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monteblanco
Notwithstanding the fact that Oliver Hardy claimed copyright on his catch-phrase at least 15 years before WW2
Careinthecommunity.CSC right enough
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Upside Down by Diana Ross?
No.
We did sing the holiday hymn
'Airs that are soft and a cloudless sky
We would owe all to Thee
Speak to Thy Son as Thou didst of old
That feast day in Galilee
And as everyone knows,the summers were a lot better then.
Diana Ross-the Cilla Black of Motown.
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WG,sing us a bit and I will tell you
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To the tune of This Old Man
Upside down, upside down
We don't care if the **** fall down
If the **** fall down or the **** all drown
We don't care if the **** fall down
I can't post **** from my place of employ.
WorkbasedGemmell
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WorkaholicGogetter-the asterisks?
Does it refer to the Stills,by any chance?
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Sean South,you have been banging on about this defence since Artmedia?
Can you tell me who,out of Sunday's defence played in that game?
Appears the only one I know that did,is the one you are calling for to be re-instated in the team.
You don't think we will win the league?
You didn't think we would last year,nor did you think we would the year before.
You merely changed tack to dwell upon the fact that we weren't playing nice football after we had won both titles before the Christmas decorations had come down.
Seem to recall you,among many others shouting with glee about how Paul Le Guen would show up Gordon Strachan for the inept manager you believe him to be.
And you were always there to remind us after a bad result.
I am not digging you up by pointing out that you only post here when it is to whine,and only after a bad result.
I am merely pointing out a fact that is indesputable.
That is your choice,but it does not bar me from commenting upon it.
Yogi,I have a wife and two kids and house under extreme renovations at the moment.
You register somewhere below an ant on the pavement on the annoy-o-meter.
You misunderstand me totally,I thoroughly enjoy pointing it out when people talk utter mince.
And I enjoy it even more when they disregard video evidence that proves this,and STILL harp on about things that patently didn't happen.
And I also thoroughly enjoy it when said mince talkers get all hot under the caller and cry "personal abuse" when there opinions and stances are ridiculed and debunked,and proved beyond all doubt to be stupid.
Keep talking,your entertainment value rises each time you type.
TBM,I think we don't get overlaps because the full backs are told to not go too far forward,because we don't have the cover in midfield.
If our wide men played on their correct sides,both full backs could have the option of playing in the inside right/left channel or on the overlap.
This has always been much more effective.
With both our wide men playing on their "wrong" sides it ain't ever gonna happen.
Shame.
Kitalba,you noticed too?
Fancy that.
Where are you?
Everything okay?
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Wg,remember it now.
We sang it as "they all die".
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Sean South ,
In your logical dissection of the Celtic defense you forgot the key culprit from Sunday who cost us defeat.
Artur Boruc. He is indefensible for his mistakes. Others should not take his blame.
Lest you forget :
Sean South said...
Sorry, happy clappers, the woeful Celtic defence will ensure the SPL title will go to Rangers.
24/09/07 05:03
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Kojo - I appreciate that PL has to work to his budget and not pay over the odds for players. We have a long-tern business plan and we're sticking to it.
BUT...the decision to set the player budget at qualification for the UEFA Cup Group Stage nearly achieved that very result! If King Artur hadn't made those penalty saves, we'd be watching our Southside friends picking up all the CL candy.
It looked more like one of Dodgy Dave's high-risk strategies rather than good forward planning.
Once we realised we had 60% of the CL loot and the readies for Kenny Miller, was there really no business to be done before the close of the transfer window?
It's a reasonable question to ask.
I'll be pleasantly surprised if we strengthen in January and are still in European football.
I've stated previously where I think the net spend has gone this summer and I can live with it as long it's for the long-term good of the club and we return to higher net spends next summer.
TTTTstillyerpalwhohopesyouroptimismiswellfounded
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Hi Kano how goes it? Had a beer with Paul the other day......... Gearing up for Bali? Good Luck
Re-visiting right is right and left is left in order to get to the by-line and get crosses in!!!!!!! As I feel that we may see the best of JVOH and our other strikers and even the ball attacking midfielder ala Paul Hartley in Moscow.
As it is now, it is too narrow and predictable although having plenty of possession and looking neat and tidy until we run out of ideas and the opposition have all got back behind the ball ergo the inevitable angled 40 yard out cross............ Anyway, probably leave this particular drum alone now as I think I've made my opinion clear!!!
TBM
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TTTT : Once we realised we had 60% of the CL loot and the readies for Kenny Miller, was there really no business to be done before the close of the transfer window?
It's a reasonable question to ask.
Big Wavy : I think I'm right in saying that from the public domain (albeit not the club formally) the last few days did try and see us bring in wee shaun and Routledge of Spurs admitted we tried to take him on loan. Both fell through.
Clearly neither are defenders where the real problem lies.
Big Wavy
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new article posted.
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