 Thursday, September 13, 2007
McManus displays international credentials
How would you feel is Celtic signed a central defender who just helped his small nation to a win over France in Paris? Against the top scorer in Italian, French and English football, Stephen McManus was imperious last night. It is hard to assess players who break into the Celtic team from the youth ranks. When we first see them they are never the finished article and often provide evidence to that effect. Stephen McManus has developed from an understudy to the younger John Kennedy, to Celtic captain and an international class defender since he replaced Stanislav Varga in the Celtic line up in 2005. It has been so long since we nurtured a young talent into a player who could grace the international stage that we have lost the navigational skills needed to identify the raw talent. Paul Hartley deserves particular mention. He has not started a game in a month and must have been dead on his feet late in the game, but he never stopped running was always composed in possession. The goal from James McFadden was spectacular; collecting a ball from his goalkeeper, turning and thrashing a shot into the net from 30 yards, but winning after a ‘long ball goal’ undersells Scotland’s football and organisation. As I have said here many times, Alex McLeish is an outstanding manager. His teams win everything they get close to. The outstanding head-to-head record he achieved against Martin O’Neill’s Celtic was even more remarkable considering he was a net seller to the tune of £14m. I was delighted when he was hounded out of Ibrox; he will leave the Scotland job for a top club in England. Just in case I jinx anything, I will retain my cynicism. Despite winning seven games, Scotland still need to eliminate either the Fifa World Champions or runners up, an enormous task which still sounds unlikely, but I will not bet against McLeish.
157 Comments:
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Well done big Mick.
Lubo.
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Mick was immense and Paul Hartley had his best game in a couple of years. Their confidence must be sky high right now which can only be good for Celtic. Delighted for them.
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Third?
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Paul Hartly started Celtic's last league game
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All the Celts were immense last night. I hope they kept enough in the tank for ICT and Shakhtar!
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Paul67,
Spot on. If we were signing Mick from say Poland, Portugal etc and he had played in a team which had got into the last 16 of last season's CL having kept clean sheets against ManUtd, Benfica and Milan we would be delighted.
The big man is growing in stature every time he plays, and he seems to raise his game against better opposition. We are lucky to have him and hopefully John Kennedy recovers sufficiently and regains his pre injury form, if that happens we won't have to buy a centre half for about ten years with Darren O'Dea as backup.
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If Scotland win their two remaining home games they will reach the finals, regardless.
And it was good to see so many current and past Celtic players in the team last night, a sign that we are indeed helping to promote Scottish talent, both from within and without.
And now to Celtic... bring on Shakhtar, while our players' confidence is sky high. Let's hope the change of focus and scene during the international interlude has not affected our scintillating recent form.
If anyone on here is from Northern England and will be attending the CL group games at CP, would you be interested in sharing a lift to/from CP. I'm happy to drive up to Glasgow from Leeds in my own car and split the petrol costs, but I will be looking to head straight back to Leeds after the games (assuming I get my tickets from Celtic!), as I will likely have to work on the day after... in spite of arriving back in Leeds around 3am!
If you wish to contact me about this then email me at: [my CQN username] at yahoo (co uk).
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As a mick-knocker, from what little I seen of the game last night then I take my hat off to the fella. Well done and long may you prove me wrong. Very composed and commanding.
I also feel (ok, hope) that Paul Hartley, after his initial tame start at the club where he looked in awe of the whole thing, will be a big player for us this season. I fully expect him to start next week in Shaktar and a repeat of last night would be fine thank you. Feel his confidence is growing. McGeady will have taken a confidence knock from the irish game (which I watched) where he was knocked off the ball too much but in his defence unsupported by his team mates too often. Let him off the leash on saturday and keep him in reserve for next tuesday when we play an effective rope-a-dope with the ukranians.
Out of curiosity, why did Maloney not play last night especially coming off the bench instead of Pearson (who did well to be fair).
Wavy
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lang mae yer lum reek Mick, or is that to Scottish.....
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Bigwavy - Pearson was brought on because he's a runner, Maloney has pace etc. but Pearson covers more ground. You could also argue that Pearson will be slightly fitter given that he isn't sitting on the bench week in week out, counting his extra money, pining for Paradise and greetin' his eyes out to any passing hack who is short of some copy. Oh dear did that come out bitter?
Most amused to hear that the French media have compared Faddy's goal to that which you might score in a video game.
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Scotland need 7 points to guarantee qualification. A tough ask considering the run of fixtures. But France still have to go to the Ukraine and if we finish level we go through on a better head to head. After last night anything is possible.
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JackD, see what happens when you blog from the passport office. Hmmm.
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Thanks Andrew,
So I take it Wee Shaun was on the bench then but an unused sub ?
I wonder too if he got to bring his seat from the Villa bench to help with the transition to international level ?
Great wee player imho but by gawd is his wee rants, moans and indecisive trips getting tiresome..
Ah well, only 3 and a half months to the daily speculation of "will he, won't he..."
Can't wait.....
Big Wavy
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Spot on Paul about McLeish.
I thought he was the luckiest manager alive from 1999-2006. He has something more than luck.
I agreed completely with you when he left ibrox and still do.
When is the last time Italy missed a major championship - have they ever missed one. They will get whatever they need from Scotland at Hampden, be it 1 point or 3. The work has to be done beforehand and by someone else playing France
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ticketyboo
Italy failed to qualify for Euro 84 after they'd won the World Cup two years earlier.
What I wouldn't give for history to repeat itself...
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that would be "too" not "to"...
Grammar Police.
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Well Paul a good analysis for someone quite dispassionate about the Scotland team.
In all honestly I thought their goalkeeper should have done better. Think he was looking for a TV save. However don't want to take anything away from Jamesy Bhoy though (he is a match winner).
Scott Brown was immense even bullying big Patrick at times.
Hartley was excellent prob MOTM.
Big Mick was solid but I still have lingering doubts about his composure and decision-making (although to be fair he had a bit of tidying up after David Weir to contend with). I honestly think Caldwell complements him brilliantly. Strange that big Eck used to get a game for Scotland ahead of Hansen because of his partnership with Willie Miller (who was an excellent defender) although maybe the USSR game put paid to a Miller/Hansen partnership. I digress......
Big Mick keeps producing the goods...he has an excellent winning record as captain of the Celtic reserves...I hope this continues with the first team.
Roll on ICT and Shaktar.
Congratulations Scotland and Big Eck you put a smile on my face this morning.
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Pin76, if Scotland beat Italy at home then 6 points will be enough, even if France & Italy win all their other games. So beat Italy and win ine of the other 2 games and Scotland are through.
And if, by some miracle (e.g. an Italian bad hair day in a Glaswegian gale, with a Kenny Miller hat-trick thrown in for good measure), Scotland beat Italy by 3 goals at home, then 5 points would be enough, so Scotland could even afford to draw both their other two games and still make it. The superior head to head (3-0 vs 0-2) would mean that Italy couldn't surpass Scotland.
Keep your fingers crossed, your dreams alive, and check that your passport is up to date!
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Ha ha Paul you need to be on your toes around here!!
I thought Big Mick was excellent last night...And while i'm not his biggest fan, I think he's been outstanding for about a month now! Caldwell playing next to him is no coincidence!!
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I'm sure for some it would be a no brainer but given the choice of Scotland to do the unthinkable and qualify for Euro 2008 or Celtic to get to the semis of this years Champions League...I just cannot decide which would bring more happiness (and no doubt ultimately heartbreak!)
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MMcM has a lot to learn. His distriburtion from the back is non-existent and he dives in when he shouldnt. Watch him in CL matches in particular.
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Never been a big Mick Basher meeselll
Intact………………………………....
I don’t like bashing any one in the hoops
I like to leave that for............
the opposition...........
But In the last 2 Scotland games he has been
Nothing short…………………………of
Immense…………………………..
BigJoewhoIsHappy2maveMcMick: - )
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Paul………………….67
Ree. passport office…………………
Are you pop-ping over 2 Sunny Spain…..
BigJoesittingIN28Deg:-))))))))
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I am currently off work at the moment with a bad back and am trying to find things to do, to fill in my day.
I'm going to Barcelona in a few weeks and while surfing the net today I thought I would pass on a wee bit of info to any Rangers fans heading to Barcelona in November.
Had a look at some cheap flight options to Barcelona and posted the info onto Follow Follow, why did I bother??
Follow Follow Scum
You'll need to register on follow follow to read but it's worth it.
They really are a bunch of freakin' scumbags.
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I'm sure Hartley booked his starting place against Shakhtar with last night's performance. For ICT I'd be tempted to rest the 3 Celts who played in Paris last night.
As for Scotland still a very tough task ahead. As someone said Italy tend to do just enough. Hopefully the French will bottle it.
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brightonbhoy,
Why bother trying to help? The reply is just what I would expect from many on there (I registered to read but don't post). The usual sectarian nonsense, plus the confusion of Northern Ireland and Ulster which is far too subtle for most on FF to understand.
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Brigtonbhoy
WHy don't you copy what they wrote onto this thread so we all dont' have to register for the site - don't want them to think that their site is popular!!
Extremely proud to be Scottish today after such a tremendous result - good to see the team full of old firm players once again.
There wasn't a weak link in that team last night - McCulloch & Brown done their duty & backed up the full backs when required & Brown in particular, tried to get forward whenever he could. The central midfield 3 of BF PH & SP were sublime in reducing the french midfield to shots from distance & a category of mistakes with their hard pressing stance.
We never conceded which says it all for the 5 at the back & Faddy was a resounding success in the lone striker role.
I think the one thing that was so evident last night was the impressive fitness & stamina displayed by our bravehearts - long may it continue & hopefullyt a trip to Austria/Switzerland could be planned along with a return to Moscow!!!!
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timthatsnottoodim At 13/09/07 14:30,
Would love to but..when trying to answer one of their replys i was met with this.
"
You have been banned for the following reason:
None
Date the ban will be lifted: Never"
What a shame!!
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Brigtonbhoy,
If it is as you say, scum, by a lot of freakin scumbags, then why would anyone on this site really want to read it.
Please do not copy and paste it onto C Q N.
Cheers,
Martin.
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from the fishall site...........
elvis recovering from back op'
Gregor Kyle
CELTIC defender Steven Pressley is facing a two-month lay-off as he recovers from a back operation.
The 33-year-old defender has become an invaluable member of Gordon Strachan’s first-team squad since joining the club last December, playing an important role in the heart of defence as the players won a league and Scottish Cup double.
Pressley also started the current pre-season campaign in the heart of the Celtic defence but has recently been unavailable through injury and finally decided to have the back operation that he had delayed for some time.
"This is something I have needed done for a wee while,” Pressley told www.celticfc.net, “and it is great to just get it done and out of the way now.
“The doctors and myself are very pleased with how the operation has gone and I am looking forward to getting back to full fitness as soon as possible."
The operation is expected to keep Pressley out of the squad for an estimated eight weeks. Further news to follow here at www.celticfc.net
bigJoewhoWishesElvisAspeddyRecovery
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Yes it was great to see a Celtic youth product rise to such an occasion last night, following on from his displays against Shaktar. Not to be petty, but he's way more of an inspirational leader that Ferguson. Hate to put a downer on that point by saying that Ferguson and Hutton started from Rangers' set-up, and for Motherwell, yes, them, there's Pearson, McFadden and McCulloch. While accepting we could add Maloney and Beattie, and only dealing with the current Scotland squad, our nurturing of young talent at Celtic has sometimes not been as good as we think it is in quantitative terms let alone a qualitative sense.
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I disagree with those suggesting we rest anyone against ICT.
Now that we have qualified for the Big Cup our priority must be winning a 3rd consecutive SPL and thereby (probably) having direct entry to next years Big Cup without the coronary inducing process of qualification.
Any thing we get in the CL is a bonus but should not be at the expense of the league.
Failure should not be an option in this competition.
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Sorry the address in that link seems to be a dud - came in a n eMail from the Daily Ranger!
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Agree with all the others that Paul Hartley was tremendous last night but it's a strange situation now since he was played in a role that he was not brought to Celtic for.
He basically swept in front of the back 4, an out and out defensive midfield role. In the new team 3 our duo of Brown and Donati make this role redundant, and a physically superior, ever improving Evander Sno would be the natural choice to step into the defensive role should we play a midfield three. Maybe Paul now challenges for that position (probably only needed in Europe) but its a risk if he's not match sharp going into these games.
So basically I'm not sure what's best for him. Does he bide his time to replace Brown or Donati in his natural position, bide his time to play in games where we need midfield numbers, or take a game whenever he can get it anywhere in the team and fade into his latter career as a utility player?
Sounds a bit negative so to refocus...hopefully he simply becomes so on-form that he makes others ask the same question of themselves, a fit and on form Paul Hartley has to be good for Celtic.
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Bloke109
Without wanting to sound controversial, I find the benchmark of a Celtic player rising to be a scottish international a fairly depressing one to be honest. The problem I have is that, and I don't know how and why, but that has become a byword for mediocrity in european and worldwide footballing circles over the last 20 years. Of those you mentioned as internationals Ferguson failed in the EPL, Hutton isn't even the best right back in Glasgow, Pearson wasn't good enough for us, McFadden is an EPL reserve player and McCulloch is renowned down here in England as a laughable excuse of a player and a bit of a joke. Maloney sits on the bench huffing and is outside the top team and Beattie is a championship player.
Truly excited by Brown and glad we tapped into the Hibs youth setup.
Of course our most talented home grown protégé Aiden at the moment, is an Irish international. I too, have high hopes for Darren O'Dea.
Big wavy
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I read the comments today and yesterday on McManus , then had a wee look back a few weeks and watched the poor guy get ripped in pieces along with the rest of the defense by some posters around here. Was embarassing to say the least. But a few guys had already spotted that we have a good center back along with a few other good center halves.
Well done to you guys.
Suddenly after one outstanding international performance Mick has gone from average to world class in the eyes of some detractor supporters. But hey guess what , some already knew what we had already.
Last year the criticism when McManus and Caldwell were declared first choice pairing for Celtic was crazy. Even this season there where entire threads dedicated to why these two players could not make it. Interesting to see if some will eat their own venom.
Probably not.
One thing is clear though , Gordon Strachan was right all along. He could see the talent. Gordon had belief in Stephen McManus when others did not.
McManus and Caldwell will be Celtic's and Scotland's first choice center halves for a while to come. Hopefully they will be our players when they reach their peaks with will be Rock solid , international class ,defenders with vast CL experience.
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Paul,have read your article,and know what you are saying.
It will never be accepted.
We have a numpty in our defence,and so do Scotland,who only plays football because some people keep Bobo out of the game and because we have failed to sign somebody better.
He is also useless because he speaks to the "press".
Maybe we should sign somebody who has shown himself to be a better prospect at his age in the Champion's League,and the Euro 2008 qualifiers.
Let me know if you know anybody,and please,let the manager know too,will you.
Oh,and let all the other people know too,who are well educated to the fact that the guy is rubbish because we didn't sign him for a fortune.
He must be rubbish.
Imagine somebody being a great player from our reserves.
Ya board lover ye.
Ye should know by now that the only reason anybody would see him as a great player is surely the fact that he cost nothing.
Then again,it was only surely some luck,and he will be shown up against the next team who scores against us.
Gordon Strachan crap,who wouldn't get a game if MON was here eh?
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wooo steady on big Liam,
Potentially as one of those whom you speak, I've given credit to Big Mick's recent performances on its merit. That certainly doesn't equate to a road to damscus turnaround but hopefully a bit of balance.
I still worry about our back line and big Mick's relative lack of presence in the air, judgement and distinct lack of pace, especially when exposed to high quality opposition. I would imagine that for our opponents in the CL and TFOD, these areas will be targetted for exploitation over the coming weeks.
I hope he 'consistently' proves me wrong and I will him to succeed. Ideally I wouldn't have had him first pick (by virtue of captaincy) at the start of the season but would have targetted some money in that area for improvement.
Big Wavy
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Well said Big Joe
hope the man gets better soon.
Done us well in a bad time.
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Kano,
I'll second that.
And a lot better player than some give him credit for.
Probably the same people who still think that Big Mick is a liability
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Big Liam,
even after they have done what you said,they will still be examples of our board "not pushing the boat out" when we fail to make it past the quarter finals of the Champion's League.
We will have signed numerous Gravesens and Jarosiks and other "Champions League" people who did not work out,but still be criticised for having Scottish players in our teams who have been unlucky on the way,and for "lowering our expectations".
I really hope we ram the words down everybodies throats who criticise us for going home grown.
Our wee man has got closer to the holy grail than anybody else in the last 30 years,and with more home grown players than we could have imagined.
I think the wee man has a bit of a Scottish thing going as well.
Good luck to him,you never know what may happen,even if you do think local players canoot possibly be better than players signed from the EPL for 6 million pounds.
regardless if they are good or not.
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I will judge McManus once he's played against decent opposition:
Like the world champions (check);
or the runners up (check);
or the european champions (check)
:-)
Just when will the guy get credit, he's been excellent for over 2 seasons now and is captain on merit as well as being 1st choice for Scotland. People actually invent faults for him, like 'he dives in and costs us in the champions league' - the only time he should have dived in, he didnae!!!!!
And while I'm at it, I hope his namesake gets well soon also. He's behaved with great class as a Celtic player and his performances at Tynecastle as well as the late goal in Inverness earned him a place in my heart.
That's the Celtic way!
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The Hungarians have discovered that our favourite ref, Stuart Dougal, is a card-happy maniac who always likes to have the last word.
They are getting stuck into him today after he sent off Hungary's captain in the 3-0 loss to Turkey.
We could have warned them beforehand!
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Mike,don't really see him as any sort of Beckenbauer or anything.
Just see hin as a good centre half who has his faults.
But because we didn't sign him for 7 million pound from AC Milan,he must be garbage.
There can be no other conclusion,can there?
Then again,maybe he is a good centre half,becoming a lot better whilst playing at the club he loves the best.
Can't have that,he can only be a perfect example of our board's lack of ambition and of our manager's inability to pick a centre half.
Well it must be,surely the people who spout that on here are not wrong,and spouting out their exhaust pipes?
Of course not,just ask them!!!
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As you all know I'm no cheerleader for the Scotland team but credit where it's due they are performing superbly at the moment and the future looks very bright for them. I think this could reasonably be seen as the best period in the Scottish game in the last 20years. Both ourselves and them in CL group stages, the national team looking like a proper international side and the youth teams performing with great credit at most levels.
I think this goes back to year zero being the withdrawal of Sky money from Scottish football. It has forced clubs into rearing their own players and we are seeing the benefit of this now, coupled with a proper system of bringing up young players, young managers trying to play football as opposed to the long ball and scrap merchants of the early nineties.
I also think Herr Vogts has a part to play in this resurgance. He scrapped a lot of older guys who got caps under Brown and who would probably still be getting them despite retirement. He gave caps to a lot of ordinary players but he also gave some good young guys a taste of international football and kept them in the team when other managers would have hauled them out to make way for the old guard.
I often think we are very quick to point out the negatives within our game often overlooking the positives. Big Mick has a great reading of the game which makes up for his other shortcomings, he is one of our own and we should be backing that to the hilt.
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Big Wavy ,
Alls I'm saying is McManus is a good defender. He and Caldwell are a good Homegrown Center half partnership. They have proved as much already.
To buy a center half will all the top attributes you list would spending 10-15 million plus on a foreign player.
We cant do this. We have produced a player who can compete and raise his game in the top level of European football. He is never going to be a Maldidni but he has , can , will play on the same pitch as him. Last year McManus and Caldwell played their part in the fact that Celtic were the only team in the entire CL competition not to concede a goal at home. Quite a feat. This suggests they are capable.
Any defender exposed to high quality opposition will struggle sometimes this is football and Big Mick was outdone by Champions leagues best player Kaka. No shame there.
Our back line will be exploited in the next weeks as this how how you win a game of football. No doubt we will exploit our oppositions defense as well.
At the start of the season I'd have spent money on Fullbacks as I think our center half contingent is fine. Obviously if a better player than we already have becomes available then by all means but I'd say you be hard pressed to find one to fit into our pay structure.
As I said a little belief goes a long way.
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Kano,
Bit one dimensional to do the SPL v EPL comparison. What Gordon and the club has done brilliantly is pluck value for money stars from Poland, Italy and elsewhere in Europe rather than go big into the over inflated EPL. All for going home-grown and playing them in the first team but they should be there on merit, and should be readily replaced if not, from countries also where I care not.
The import of youngsters from Romania, Italy and potentially Jamaica show the board isn't hamstrung by the guteral instinct to constantly go home-grown. I just don’t believe Scotland is producing sufficient quality at this level to satisfy my desire to get the best team on the park.
Big wavy
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Sir Paul....
Scotland circled the square.
Tough? Ya Betcha!
Was I surprised?
Na,to be surprised...ye need to be confident that the result is pre-ordained.
But, I tell you now... without the teeniest, weeniest,itty bittiest. Smidgeon, of reservation.......
I WILL BE SURPRISED... IF SCOTLAND FINISH HIGHER THAN THIRD IN THE LEAGUE!
A gallant effort,a real dis-honest to badness, BEAU GESTE!(Apropos to naethin'..... did ye know that Donald O'Connor, wiz in that movie?....ed)(Yeah,Yeah! and also Robbie Preston died at the end...as was his wont.... Now, THAT!... Wasn't a Surprise!)
Howwevvvvvvvvvah!
Italy, is the 10000 Killo Gorilla in this story!
Now if Scotland, defy all of the odds, and do do(twoser?) the unexpected.....
THEN I AM ONE HUNDRED AND TEN PERCENT, SURE......
That I WILL BE SURPRISED!
Kojo.
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Big Wavy,wasn't particularly thinking of the EPL,just used it as an example of where you can pay over inflated prices for players who are no better than cheaper ones.
The price,or wages,has nothing to do with the value of the player to the team.
we would do well to remember that.
We would do even better to disregard who signed the player too,and where he used to play.
If he is a good player for our team(McManus)then he is a good player for our team.
Last night,he was far better,in his position,than his French counterparts.
Players who were supposedly,far better than him.
Is this just a hiccup?
Or is it just patent nonsense?
I will go the second sentence.
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See oure " feeder " club..............
dont like the word.............
" FEEDER "...................
but canny think of anything better..
have announced record annual net profits of £7.4m
bigJoeWhothoughtYOUwouldLike2know
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Kano,
I'd rather have a TEAM full of home-reared players as long as they play like a team. It's all about balance in a football team as far as I'm concerned. Important word that "balance", and it concerns having players playing to their strengths as part of a team.
Big Eck displayed that last night. And before anyone says that we were lucky... We played the way we wanted to play, to our gameplan, and we won! That's not lucky, that's getting what you planned to do.
Brian Clough knew it, I think Trevor Brooking was his only high-profile signing, and Wee Gordon is showing that he knows it too.
It honestly wouldn't bother me in the slightest if we never signed a big-name player again. Our best signings seem to be of the home-reared variety anyway, with the obvious well-known exceptions.
Just keep the profits aside until someone REALLY good becomes available. That would suit me!
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Big Liam,
Thanks. Very good reply and I hope my posts indicate a growing belief in Mick from a position that I demanded the club address in the summer (admittedly at his expense) . I suppose I had a gut instinct that a mid-tier centre half of 3-4 million did exist during the summer but Gordon decided to go with what we had. Difficult I admit to call given the finite amount of money we had and the other areas needing addressed, and of course my wish list may have meant no Scott Brown had we paid that out.
I'll be in Lisbon and have a sneaky suspicion that given the outcome last year both Mick and Gary Caldwell will be determined there will be no repeat. I honestly think we can steal 3 points there and these guys will get my large lungs to cheer them through it and will play their part to the hilt.
Hail hail
Wavy
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Big Joe,
fancy that,the two teams in green and white in perfect health,and the two teams emmersed in darkness in enough debt to cover at least two Australian mortgages.
When do you think the banks will pull them in?
And I am well aware that the wee looney owns a bank.
Will give it no more than three years for both of them.
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Big Wavy,I think you are closer to the truth with Gary Caldwell than you thonk.
I think,by the time we play in Lisbon,we will be hoping he is not injured.
At least I hope we are.
I thought the guy was doing great untuil that game,and it was more to do with luck then than anything else.
If he overcomes that memory,I get the feeling he will grow to prove that Noel90 knows even less than Ruud Gulit about defenders.
And that is saying something.
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or even the way you think
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Kano , Big Wavy ,
The Scotland side is more than just a sum of its parts. In modern day international football all you need is a good manager who can motivate his players into a well drilled team.
Instill a good work ethic combine good players with mediocre to create a good team spirit and hey presto , you can get results. Northern Ireland did it. Scotland are doing it. Wales are starting to show signs of promise. Even the Greeks can win the European Championships with an average team.
The Scots may have some players playing at different levels but hey half the england squad has never played regular champions league football and they class their players as elite. When you equate this to club level it is different although the theory is the same. Celtic have been punching above our weight for 7 years now in Europe ever since that day MON gave us in Amsterdam. Now we have learned that we can make progress in Europe by producing our own. Not necessarily Celtic youth but Scottish , Irish , Welsh , polish , american , Whatever the club have gone down the road of growing/finding their own talent.
Sometimes rather than sign a foreigner for "x" millions who may or may not produce you can give one of your own young guys the chance to become a player. We have players who have cost us nothing who have did just that. In previous seasons we have seen Celtic and rangers play teams with nearly all foreigners. Taking the money out of scotland. Some were great players but for every great player we had 3-4 mediocre ones in the past 10 years. In the past 3 years both Celtic under WGS and rangers under mcleish played more homegrown players in the euro competitions. Is it a co-incidence that both clubs managed to get the furthest in the CL that they have ever been by having a larger compliment of homegrown players in their respective squads?
This is the best way to go in my opinion and it seems the club have embraced this opinion too.
Here's hoping for an away win in the CL this year , hopefully in Lisbon , Because I'll be there!
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Mike,will go along with the "balance" thing.
Think it is a great idea.
Just try explaining it to people who lambast us on a "money spent" league table,regardless of who is bought.
How can we possibly have a great team,or defence,for that matter,if our defence includes the likes of McManus and Caldwell.
I mean,surely,this can only mean a lack of ambition,and forethought.
Having two guys at 25 learning to become a rock.
I mean we must sack the manager for this.
Surely??
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Last night,he was far better,in his position,than his French counterparts.
Is this just a hiccup?
Or is it just patent nonsense?
I will go the second sentence.
Kano - I'd never judge value purely on a one-off game, or we'd be signing a Momo Sylla type player every transfer window based on their performance against us in the SPL. Mick was excellent last night in a well-drilled team performance that worked to a tee and which didn't require the french defence to be put under any sustained pressure with one man up front and performing a different job than the backs-to-the-wall scots defence.
That french defence, to a man, over a period of time is of a higher quality than Mick or anything we possess but they cost a fortune and are beyond our means. No disgrace to that. Not a hiccup, nor patent nonsense but just an unfair comparison.
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I will say now that I think Gordon Strachan,regardless of budgets,has made a specific effort to build the Celtic team with mostly Scottish players.
In the full knowledge that it will help the Scotland team.
I hope he has a theory to stick it right up England,and he can show them that you can build a very strong team with local talent,that can enhance your national team,at the same time as picking up experience for your own team.
I have never seen a team so young at Celtic park in all my life,and one so used to winning at their age.
It is a habit that is hard to lose.
And it is something that is being absorbed.
And very quickly too.
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Big Joe, not Spain.
Kano, :-)
Kojo, with opponents like this, every game is a huge ask, but no more so that the last one – the greatest Scottish national result ever.
I look forward to the return of Cruly and his tales of endeavour in Paris.
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Kano……………………………
regarding money matters……………
Hymmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Well 2 tell you the truth……………
I aint that good with the old dosh…
Me-sell……………………….
Intact Mrs BigJoe would say I am GASH.
But you just have 2 ask.........
that English bookie.........
Who I skinnd last night………………….
: - )))))))))))))))))
so regarding…………..
Regarding the 2 TFOD……………………
We can just live in hope…………..
BigJoeWhoWouldentMaketheChancellorOfTheExchequer
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Big Wavy,I am not judging on a one off game,there has been a continuous improvement,at ever increasing levels!
And with no criticism apart from ourselves.
You have just exhibited what i find strange amongst ourselves.
Why must he be less worthy,because he has not played as part of a world class team?(well at international level anyway)
The French defence is part of a far superior overall unit,which,to me,makes the Scottish defensive display,all the more remarkable.
Isn't it harder to defend against a team whose midfield would expect to dominate,rather than against teams who are only hoping to keep you out?
Trust me,my opinion of Big Mick is not based on one game,neither is my opininion of Gary Caldwell based on the game in Lisbon.
I take a long term view.
And I like the future.
Far more than I ever have as a Celtic supporter.
Call it silly,or lacking in the ability to have a look down the shaft.
But I happen to think that that is just reality.
Don't get me wrong,I don't go along with the "everything is rosy in the garden"but since I have followed Celtic,this is good.
Really good.
In fact,it is really,really,really good.
In fact I am smiling while I type this.
Smug,is a word that springs to mind.
Sorry,but that is just the way I think it is at the moment.
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My dear friend, Kano....
If I may amend your comment regarding Mr. Strachan's ultimate aim,in Abuilding the Celtic Juggernaut..
Gordon is in the process of doing what is the intelligent thing to do, do.
He is Abuilding the Celtic Edifice.... brick by brick ... in this fashion.
"Search fur Skillful, Potential Gems...and most importantly...Catch 'em Young, afore they are fully priced.
REGARDLESS OF WHERE ONE FINDS 'EM!"
His scouts have been given this message, and are busily complying.
National Origin is of no Consequence.
Kojo.
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I've got to say though, and here's something that I forgot to mention last night...
Big respect to the French players last night for playing the game and trying to win fairly.
The amount of times an incident happened where, for example, a Spanish, Portugese, Italian, German or even a Hearts player might have 'simulated'... the French stayed on their feet and never once tried to get a penalty or dubious free-kick that I can recall.
In return, the Scots never resorted to the frustrating, time-wasting tactics usually employed by those same teams. You know the sort, bringing a sub on with only 1 minute to go, feigning injury to break up play etc etc
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Kano,
Mick was fantastic last night in a great team performance.
I also am really excited about the Celtic future too.
I am also not willing to be overly rose-tinted.
And with that in mind, I'd still advocate upgrading the centre of defence as an achievable objective at the earliest opportunity. Who is to say that the incumbent couldn't do what Mick is doing...but more.
My focus is always the club and what is best for it. I'm sure Mick is a lovely fella but his sensitivities will come second to the progress of the club in my books.
Hail Hail
Big Wavy
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Kojo,I will disagree with you,for the first time!!!
I think that nationality has a very,extremely large thing to do with the man's signings.
For one thing,he can pick up good locals cheaper,for one thing,he is a wee Scottish guy,and has a thing for Scottish guys.
And for one thing,I know this from a guy who spent quite a while with him at Dundee,and he hasn't changed a bit in that regard.
I am not suggesting anything Nationalistic in the slightest.
Merely,a business acumen,that most people perceive,for some reason,as a weakness.
You,yourself,in your business,will know,that Scottish people,although cheaper than the "big" people,are well worth their fees.
Why put down our countrymen,for no other reason than they are our countrymen,when there is physical evidence to the contrary,regardless of what the Sun tells us.
Only the future shall tell,but if the recent past is an indicator to our near future,I hope he continues on with his policy.
In fact,I hope we get to continue our relationship after the summer,as I fear it will end then.
And I fear it is something we may regret.
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Big Wavy...
Here's a phrase I've used often, and often find that it's so, so true...
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
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Big Wavy,I am well old enough,and seen enough,to be well wary of the "rose tinted specs".
I can honeslty say,including Mon,that since the mid seventies,I have more reason to be optimistic about our team than at any other time.
Am prepared to argue the point with anybody,but,it has nothing to do with specs.
I don't wear them.
I see through my own eyes!!!
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And besides.
it is way past me bedtime.
Night all.
And well done Scotland.
WG,good on ye.
Tell it like ye see it.
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My dear friend,Kano...
Basically, we have no unhealable conflict of opinion, in this matter.
Gordon is committed to creating a Successful Celtic Team, as inexpensively as is possible... just as you and I have BOTH Contended.
As you are well aware, Transfer Inflation is here... and we are outside of the store, alooking in the window...the merchandise on display, is so very over-priced, and beyond the reach of our financial wherewithal.
The only apple of contention, between us, is to be found in your insistance, that Gordon is concentrating in the prerequisite of Scottish EXCLUSIVITY, in our talent search..
It is an incontrovertible truth, that Talent will be Gathered, where 'ere Talent is to be found.
To limit, the search for Potential Stars of the Future,in the way that you have proposed, is not ... in MY OPINION!... the best of choices.
Nevertheless.....
The above is my own personal opinion.
As has been mentioned many times on these very pages...
"One's personal opinion, is as valid as the next guy's...."
The only DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWIXT... is THE DIFFERENCE!"
Kojo.
Yer Pal... forever.
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Liam @ 15.59
Excellent post.
Kano & Kojo (good name for a double act)
It seems to me self evident that GS has been building a team/squad with a core of Scottish players.
Kojo you say National Origin is of no Consequence...
But Platinni and Blatter both propose enforcing rules relating to the number of home grown players at the begining of a match. I cannot concur wiith your statement....It is of consequence to those wise enough to employ planning for any eventuality.
The SFA is being well served by what Paul67 correctly says is an exceptional manager. He is being helped in an indirect way by his old pal. A feisty couple of winners they two are..... Aberdeeen fans must be proud of them both...No?
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I was impressed with the discipline shown by the Scotland team last night. Despite France throwing everything they had at the Scots, I thought the team did very well to keep their shape and composure. I also thought that the Rangers players in the team played very well, although they were no better or worse than their Celtic counterparts.
The quality of Celtic and Rangers players on display last night suggests an interesting tussle for this year's SPL. However, I think (or should I say hope) the Celtic players who did not, or perhaps more accurately, could not, play in Paris last night will tip the balance in our favour. One thing is for sure and that is that both Alex McLeish and Walter Smith are both far better football managers than many of us on here wish to believe. They have both proved this with their handling of the national team. Whether Scotland qualifies or not ahead of France and Italy they have surprised the whole of Europe with their performances in this group.
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My dear friend,PJBoyNyc....
I am unaware if those rules have indeed been officially enacted.
It would be a great help to my understanding, if someone would be so kind as to inform, whether the rules, that you mention, have been officially accepted.
And most importantly, what is the make-up of those rules.
Kojo.
Yer Pal... fur good.
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Big Mick has been outstanding, not just in the last two Scotland games, but (after a shaky start to the season) since the Hearts game.
His best performance so far this season was still the home Spartak game, regardless of last night.
I have not been a supporter of the need for another centre half - for me, Caldwell and Mick are our current first choice, and we have excellent cover in Kennedy and O'Dea. And I still think with his experience (and the repair of his back) that in an emergency Elvis could still do a turn.
A top class striker, full back cover and wide midfield cover are our January priorities, IMO.
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At 22/03/06 13:23, Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo said…
I think that Mc Manus has been a revelation this season. This guy kept Varga out who was a MON first choice last season. He came in at a time when the defence was getting pelters after black Sunday and the Artmedia debacle. He has had to do a lof of left back covering especially arieally where I believe the extra burden has made him look indecisive in the air at the back where normally he isn´t. When was the last time that Celtic had a CB that had such a healthy tally in the goals scored column and how important were those goals too?
I also think that his distribution in these last few weeks has improved immensely too. Once a solid left back is in place and Wilson moves over to his favoured position I see Caldwell as being cover for Mc Manus. Mark my words it wont be long before he´s leading Celtic out as captain and keeping the best of Europe out at club and international level.
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dont say I never told you so ;-)
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My dear friend, PJBhoynyc.....
On further thought...
I present the following, in fortification of my comments and already stated opinion.....
During the PAST YEAR, the undermentioned players where Folded under the Celtic WING.....
One young DUTCH MAN!
One Young IRISHMAN!( Southern..I believe...named GAUGHAN... )
One Young Bulgarian!
One Young ITALIAN!
Also at least 3 trialists .....
of various Nationalities, including AFRICAN!
And that is not including...
THE THREE WEST INDIAN GENTLEMEN!
Also the interest in the following...
TWO PLAYERS OF FOREIGN EXTRACTION IN THE U.S.A.
There are more examples... but at the moment my Crack RESEARCH GALS are on their Pre- ELEVENSIES!
In light of your attitude towards the capture of Foreigh Borners, in reference to your noted Proposed CL RULES....
I would be most interested in your thoughts on how to account for this .... most strange and puzzling behaviour,in fact, verging on the FOOLISH! ...of Mr.Strachan!
Kojo.
Yer pal.... fur evah an' evah
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Awe_Naw
Even I can't disagree with that.
Go on captain Stephen.
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Kojo in answer to your question to PJ. I believe if we get them in young enough and through our ranks they are classed as being homegrown.
Just passing through so wont see the replies if im wrong.
lionletaxi
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Kojo
Also a young Romanian boy called Marian Pop was signed in January.
The net has truly been cast far and wide.
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I had a fantastic few days in and around Glasgow managing to catch the Hearts game and the incredible Spartak match.
Not long back from the hols and before some observations on team matters a few words of thanks (jeez, it's like the oscars).
Arthur Lee - magnificent job! You are the man and I am endebted to you. All was well, very well at the 'digs' you sorted. Thank you. But no pints?
Tully57 - yet again you facilitate my support with awesome generosity and ticketry.
nominatim, Baz67, WG, hermano of Baz67, young nominatim, young Tully, Uncle Eddie; the craic was ninety but all too brief.
Ulysees – sorry I didn’t catch a show. I spent very little time in Edinburgh this time around.
EDB – thanks again for the invite to your pre-match cocktail affair. Family committments prevented attendance. I’m pencilling in my next trip for later in the year. Maybe then?
Paul67, Martin and Kevin. Nice to see you again/meet you – again with a pint would make it better next time.
Now, in the lead up to the games I had been advised (mostly here) that the defence was gash, slow, ready to be taken apart. Some here had been frankly anti-Celtic in their abuse of Caldwell and at best patronising of Big Mick. ‘Aye, he’s a good lad and an honest pro but …’. Both number 2 and 3 berth-holders took some stick.
After the Hearts game I actually thought the defence looked fine. I took the point that it was a poor Hearts team but nevertheless it seemed the back four was a good work in progress and I could see a fine relationship already existing between Gary C and Big Mick.
They were tested far more rigourously against Spartak and it became clear to me during this match that all was not well in Fullbackland. I thought both were turned over several times (esp. Naylor) in the first half and there was marginal improvement in the second 45. Most concerning was the body language of both – neither Wilson nor Naylor in my view are in the zone psychologically at the moment to be playing CL football. However this can and must be dealt with by Gordon and the team.
I see no cause for concern in the middle and with JFK, O'Dea and Elvis as back up, we'll be fine.
In the middle against the jambos all four were awesome. Full marks. I thought against the Russians Aiden and Scott excelled, Naka had a lightweight game and Donati was missing for large parts of the game. I’d have pulled him off at the hour mark (ooer missus). Still, our midfield as a unit performed better than theirs and Donati will improve at CL level. We're on the cusp of something special in the middle.
Up front I am disappointed Miller has gone because perming any two of JVOH, McDonald and Miller would have been sufficient for the title, if not CL success. I don’t know what to think of the Big Man. He looks classy, composed and intelligent but does not seems to have the heart for the Hoops shirt. BBJ did not have JVOH’s skill (although not short of it either) but bhoy did he have the heart of a Lion. I hope I am proved utterly wrong but he seems to lack the instinct or hunger of a top quality goalscorer. Hit it on the bounce, take the one touch sometimes, turn quickly and batter it really hard in the general direction of the net, Big Man!
McDonald looks to have a lot going for him. Think he’ll be a good ‘un. Shame about Miller and I hope it was a lot of money because he’d have scored a hatful off the bench this season.
In general, it’s a great time to be a Celtic supporter, really great. A young team with some already world class and some potential world class players. I can think of nothing to be very unhappy about on the basis of those two performances although clearly there are areas for improvement.
Final word on the atmosphere against Spartak. Really, it was awesome. I don’t think I’ve encountered a more colourful, passionate and bloody noisy body anywhere. Keep it up! When Artur stopped the final pen it felt like being in the eye of a hurricane with explosions going on around me which it seemed to come in waves and which seemed to last for way too long. Perhaps that was the LSD kicking in.
What with the Holy Gholy and you bhoys and ghirls, we’ll not lose much at Paradise again this year.
It’s so good to be a Celtic supporter.
McGrain, happy to be home but missing Celtic already.
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Just been listening to wee Bertie on Celtic TV and he was saying something that I felt about last night's game: Paul Hartley will prove of tremendous importance in the away games in Europe. I thought he was the MOM by quite some way. I wasn't really happy when we signed him but if he can keep up that level of performance, he'll be worth his weight in gold.
As one of those most firmly in the no to McManus even being in the team, I am coming round to the notion that it is his pairing with Caldwell that has made all the difference. Certainly, he has done a lot more than I ever expected of him and he's made a lot fewer mistakes than Bobo would have, I'm sure.
Yes, it's a good time to be a Tim. It would be great now to see the likes of Sno and some of the young lads really breaking through. We might need every player we have over the course of the season. Sean Maloney coming back as a Christmas present would be the icing on the cake.
Now all we need is Lee Naylor coming back into form (which I think he was showing signs of in the second half against Spartak Moscow) and he lad Wilson to come good and we wouldn't have a weakness. Team 3's looking good.
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parkheadcumsalford - how succinct are you - we are as one!
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