 Wednesday, March 19, 2008
Flawed Celtic fail again
Celtic stumbled out of the Scottish Cup last night against Aberdeen. It is the second time they exited a cup competition at home against clubs from the lower half of the league this season after losing to Hearts in the CIS Cup.
It was a famous victory for Aberdeen, but not a famous performance from the team currently eighth in the league. They defended flawlessly, but unlike the game at Pittodrie ten days ago, Aberdeen keeper Derek Soutar was not called on to make miraculous saves, nor was the woodwork called into action this time. Celtic never convinced me they looked like scoring until the customary cavalry charge near the end.
The Celtic central midfield selection changed yet again, back to Scott Brown and Massimo Donati, who last played together against Hibernian at the start of the month, but again the combination looked contrived.
After last week’s disappointment against Dundee United I suggested that the shape of the team was wrong; that Celtic didn’t look like winning the game until the plan was thrown out of the window and they flooded forward with fluidity.
Last night was no different. Celtic opened purposefully enough, I should be clear, effort was certainly not lacking, but Aberdeen stuck to their task denying Celtic space inside the box. Scott McDonald was sent clear by a Vennegoor of Hesselink back-heal late in the first half, but he couldn’t get his foot round the ball and sent it wide.
Aberdeen asked few questions of the Celtic defenders, but managed to score a goal and should have scored earlier when Stephen McManus under-hit a pass to Boruc, who saved when Foster should have put Aberdeen ahead.
Yesterday I asked if Celtic had the stomach for the fight; on reflection I think I asked the wrong question. It is far too simplistic to ask for fight and I don’t think the players are lacking in this area, but with only one goal scored in four games, Celtic are clearly lacking something.
Celtic are flawed.Labels: Match Report
170 Comments:
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I had a whole rant all typed out and posted but God knows where it's ended up. It said it posted successfully but cannot see it (and I know about where to find them once the blog has reached it's limit).
I can only be bothered to type that Scott Brown is proving to be a huge disappointment. Can anyone remember the banner the Aberdeen fans unveiled at Ibrox saying 'Agent Mcleish: Mission Accomplished'? I would not be surprised if next week we see the same from that rotten shower with the word Mcleish substituted for Brown. He is playing as though he is a hun. A complete liability.
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I meant to say also that at least Aberdeen treated the game with the respect it deserved. As we were walking up to the Park tonight I turned to my dad and said it had all the feelings of a pre-season friendly. I was amazed to see the Aberdeen end almost completely sold out so on that point fair play to them.
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I should have backed myself instead of JVOH for a hat-trick!
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I feel sorry for everyone I'll meet tomorrow.
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And if they feel sorry for me they're gettin' it, right between the eyes.
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Evenin all.
Just home from the game and will admit to not having read anyone’s posts. Also admit to being fuelled by several Miller Genuine Draft.
I am an unashamed happy clapper and have always been a supporter of Gordon Strachan. Anyone who cares to look back on anything I have posted will see that.
However, I now find myself believing that Gordon stands on the precipice. His position is close to untenable.
No Celtic side should lose two home cup matches to inferior sides such as Hearts and Aberdeen. They are quite clearly inferior sides, Aberdeen in particular. When that happens, questions should rightly be asked of the manager.
Tonight was a watershed for me. I sat and watched a re-run of the first game, only this time we never equalised. I assume the manager was watching the same game.
Before I go on, please do not label me alongside the Sean South’s of this blog. He must be feeling rather smug that his prediction of last August , that Celtic would capitulate to Rangers this season,is looming large on the horizon. I don’t feel any pleasure tonight.
Tonight, I believe that Gordon Strachan demonstrated that he has no tactical nous. None. Nadder. Zip.
I have never in my life called for a manager to be removed from the seat at Celtic. We have had some bad managers, no question, but throughout their respective tenures, I have given unqualified support.
Tonight, I now find myself wavering in that regard, towards Gordon Strachan.
Celtic as a club now face a 10 game season, in order to retain the SPL title. In order to retain that title, we need a team who are up to the task of winning the battle in each and every game. We need to win every game. No ifs, buts or maybes. Anyone who doubts that is wrong, wrong, wrong.
I have to wonder if Gordon Strachan realises this. If he does, he is currently doing a damn good impersonation of a man who doesn’t. His team selections over the course of the last five or six games have been baffling to me. He must see that there are players out there who are not up to the task of battling to secure this league title. If he does not, then his time is up.
Taking tonight’s game in isolation, what was he thinking of by leaving out the form midfielder in Evander Sno, after having just reintroduced him to the team.
To compound this, he then sat through 45 mins ,where quite clearly, the Celtic side out on the park were demonstrating nothing that suggested they would win the game, yet he decides to make no changes until we are a goal down and have to chase the game. At this point, we get a like for like substitute in Samaras for MacDonald. No change of shape or in play. Then, with 6 minutes to go he introduces Derek Riordan, a player whom he quite clearly does not trust to start a game, yet is happy to throw on at the death, hoping that he can salvage the game. Poor, poor management in my opinion.
As I have stated earlier, in order to salvage something , we, Celtic, now face a ten game season. Simple facts are: win ten games, win the league. It is up to Gordon Strachan to put a team on the park, capable of producing these results. If he cannot do this, then in my opinion it is time for him to go. Some will say that even if we do win the league, Gordon should still go. I am honest enough to say that I cannot argue with that point of view either.
I don’t get paid to manage Celtic. I have never played Championship Manager on the PS2 or elsewhere. However, I have been supporting Celtic and watching other football, for as long as I can remember. I know a heartless football side when I see one. I saw one tonight.
Gordon Strachan…. Get it fixed and win the league. Then any decision on your future is yours to take. If you cannot or will not fix it, then your time is up.
And in case anybody thinks of asking me who I think should replace him, I would have to say that again, I don’t get paid to make these decisions, but, realistically, I would not be unhappy with John Hughes of Falkirk. His team knows how to keep the ball on the deck, and no-one, but no-one, lacks commitment in his teams.
Him or Mowbray.
This has been a bit of a ramble, but hey, I love Celtic. I only want us to succeed.
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Flawed?
Interesting choice of word Paul.
I'd say we look as a team dis-spirited and very very predictable.
I've no idea what goes on behind the closed doors at parkhead but to me it looks like we've players simply going through the motions.......
I doubt we've a squad who actually have the desire to dig deep and play for the jersey the way we all expect.....and when I look back at guys like Roy Aitken or even Neil Lennon thise guys were real sore losers and physically lifter players over the finishing line......few of this team look like they really hurt when we drop points as there starting place is assured week in week out.
We lack an on field captain and it's at times like this it shows.
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I cant really believe the abuse Scott Brown gets from areas of the support, he's had to cover atleast 2 positions with the waste of space Donati running around looking like a headless chicken while attempting to look like a cultured footballer, didnt think it was possible for a player to have more tunel vision than Barry the hun and Paul McStay (I know sacrilidge, but lets face facts he was still showing potential right up until he retired). Brown runs for the entire 90 minutes breaking up attacks and covering for his underachieving teammates.
Strachan is a liability, thankfully he'll jump ship before he's pushed as he's shown in the past, he has no technical ability as a coach and his team selections just baffle, look at right back since wilson was injured, look at Jarosic, look at Donati, look at JVOH, look at Caldwell, jesus just look at the team, we'll be lucky to have Aiden next year, if I was him I'd be lookin to get outa dodge.
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Paul67 states that Celtic are "clearly lacking something."
Too many Celtic fans- if not the CQN elite- it has long been obvious that the "something" is a manager.
Celtic's tactics tonight were abysmal, team selection was clearly wrong (the out-of-form Brown and McDonald should not have started) and Strachan's substitutions were wrongly timed.
Samaras should have been on at half-time, while giving Riordan just five minutes was a joke.
Lubo stated that he disagreed with those questioning the board's credibility in the light of the lack of criticism from our host and the ludicrous Generation of Domination nonsense.
I disagree. This blog is massively out of touch with the views of a borad swathe of the Celtic support.
If it continues to largely reflect the pro-board, pro -Strachan views of a small minority then the GoD brigade will find they are talking to themselves.
As I wroye earlier those familiar with my opinions on Strachan will not be surprised that tonight's fiasco came as no great shock to me.
It has been glaringly obvious to all those that examine Celtic's fortunes objectively that this season Rangers have left us behind both on and off the football field.
Unfortunately, the Generation of Domination brigade are still deluding themselves with their pathetic "Rangers are crap" mantra, while Paul67 continues to studiously avert his critical focus from problems that have been obvious all season.
This head-in-the-sand mentality seems to stretch from this blog all the way to the boardroom.
Meanwhile, Rangers march towards a Treble or, god forbid, a quadruple, while people like Martin42 churn out their "Stand up for the Champions" slogans, seemingly seduced by their own GoD propaganda.
I agree with Italiabhoy that this blog will lose significant crediblity if we continue to be told that Mr Strachan, the sharp-suited one and the board are doing a great job.
Fortunately, I believe that Mr Strachan is already planning his departure for a well-paid job in England before his inadequacies are further exposed.
After watching this latest shambles, many fans will believe it is a case of good riddance.
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testing
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Oh well the luck that has been in GS backpocket is finally catching up with him!! The impish little man with the snide comments is coming back down to earth with a colosssal bang and no trophies is looking very much on his horizon.
The free flowing fast football he promised us has surfaced in about a handful of games these nearly 3 years of his reign and time for him to buckle, wilt and leave the hot kitchen that is at boiling point.
He has failed miserably this year and time for a change. we had the opportunity to put the darkside away but have all but given them the treble and a platform to build upon for next year.
Bring Mark Hughes to manage us next season and beyond!!
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sean
Can't argue with most of what you say but I fail to see where Rangers have left us behind off the field this year.
Murray gambled and has got lucky so far, will his luck hold out until the seasons end? I'm not convinced it will, but after the past 6 days I'm not convinced we can take advantage of any slip-ups they have.
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We have not looked good since the home game against Barcelona. That is 7 games of utter mince performances from this squad.
And at the end of the day, we can all slag the players, but it is up to the manager to change things around if they are not working. Yet, he insists on picking the same set of players while giving no opportunities to Sno, Deek, O'Dea, Wilson, Hartley (for the most part), Balde and even Robson in the SPL. That is no ones fault but the managers.
He either needs to swap out a bunch of the under performers to pack his bags and let a man with the balls to make tough decisions do the job.
Also, to stick with 4-4-2 when they have 10 men behind the ball shows he has limited ability to change things up when plan A does not work.
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Sean South.
Which particular aspect of Rangers on and off field activities lead you to the conclusion that they have left us, Celtic, behind?
Especially off the field.
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Wizard of Oz: You say: Before I go on, please do not label me alongside the Sean South’s of this blog. He must be feeling rather smug that his prediction of last August , that Celtic would capitulate to Rangers this season,is looming large on the horizon...."
I do not feel smug. I feel very angry.
This capitulation to a club that Paul67 was telling us only last year were skint, a busted flush and were rolling over to the Generation of Domination is unforgiveable.
Many of us saw it coming when we failed to strenghten properly in the 2007 summer transfer window.
But we were harangued and hectored by Paul's poodles at every turn.
That complacency ran all the way from the boardroom to this blog, which probably is not surprising given the slavish pro-board position that Paul67 has taken.
There are many guilty parties in this shameful capitulation and betrayal of Celtic's advantage over Rangers....
And Strachan shouldn't be the only one to pay the price for under-estimating Rangers this season.
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The only place Rangers have left us behind (and I hate to say it) is in the Managers office.
Smitty is nothing special, but he can certainly get more out of the players at his disposal than WGS can.
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But ultimately he carries the can for players he bought, players he wont play and for his tictacs;)!!! Which are none!!!!
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Wizard of OZ: Are you serious ? The SPL table, the winning of the CIS Insurance Cup and their strong position in the Scottish Cup tell me they have over-taken us on the field.
Off the field there ability to identify and recruit players who have improved their team show they have done their job better off the field.
Look at the millions Strachan has wasted on Gravesen, Jarosik, JVOH, Donati, Brown etc.
And in Smith Rangers have a manager who can get his players to run through a brick wall for him.
I forecast Rangers would win the SPL this season when other were spouting their GoD claptrap.
Now the fear is that our incompetence has handed them a Treble.
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Sean south
Keep telling it like you see it!Not all of us on this blog wear CQN,s blinkers.
I understand why some posters have questioned the part of rangers off field success against us on your post,as we are ahead on this one front,
However complacency tends to get the response it deserves.Our attendances are declining,unsurprisingly considering the dross we have had to watch in the last 18months although i don,t remember much during all of Gordon,s tenure as our coach.Their income will rise with success while ours will decline unless there is a dramatic turnaround in latter part of the season.
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havent posted since last season due to not knowing how to change account.the players are the best in the league ,manager is certainly not.system is flawed due to personnel,shape is crap because it gives opposition chances.we dont start games at the right tempo,is that down to wgs,i believe so.tonight as a one off you put down to bad luck,but it only joins a long list.strachan must go.we laugh at the huns for playing defensiveley,but at least when they need to score they play 4 or 5 up front.strachan changes like with like.thats 2 home games on the trot when we need a goal our right back has a throw in 25 yards from goal and it ends up at our left back inside our half after 4 passes.we need a captain.we can win the league because we have better players but we wont playing without leaders on and off the pitch.hail hail.
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Porridgeandbananas:Murray managed to get enough cash togethet to give Smith money that has improved their team significantly.
Whatever fiancial advantage we hold was not used properly. We are without doubt a worse side than last season.
Rangers have managed their assets better than we did and made sounder decisions in the transfer market.
There is no point in havinmg more money in the bank iof you don't use it wisely....
Or in the case of Strachan fritter it away buying rubbish like Donati.
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Mostly I agree with WizardofOz, so cheers, at least I don't have to type all that.
I've been an advocate for Strachan, right up until the Dundee Utd game, and then tonight. I'm more inclined to be a happy clapper than a Mineshafter, but tonight the reality was stark.
I thought Brown and Donati were useless. So useless that opposing midfields can afford to spread themselves wide and cover Aiden & Naka, which limits their effectiveness. The team's a doughnut; there's nothing in the middle. Not even custard creme. This was obvious about 15 minutes into the match. Also obvious was the fact that Hessalink needs time in a dark room to reflect.
But my real concern is with our manager. No change at half time. I couldn't believe we got to 67 minutes and Samaras was not stripped. Then the goal went in and woke Strachan from his slumber. Sorry Gordon did those noisy Aberdeen fans wake you with their cheering?
Then Riordan for Caldwell, what is this, amateur hour on Champion Manager? The wee snotter shouldn't even be on the bench so little is he trusted.
Paul, you say this team isn't lacking fight. Well it's missing hunger, drive, commitment, aggression, shame, desire, bite, guts, dig and passion. For Strachan to write it all up to 'Poor Finishing' is to miss the point entirely.
Although I like the alliteration, we didn't flood anywhere with fluidity. We mounted a last gasp, stinky desperation, cavalry charge with long ball following long ball.
I had to agree with my new neighbour tonight. I hope Gretna go out of business before they get a chance to finish our League hopes off completely.
I shudder to think what a performance like that against Dundee United and Aberdeen would lead to at Ibrox.
Sort it out Gordon, I know we're better than them (Dundee Utd, Aberdeen & Rankers), but it only counts if you prove it.
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Sean South.
You stated previously on this blog that you believed that Celtic had blown the league last August.
Last August!
Despite the fact that we signed a player who is now the SPL'S current top scorer.
I believe that to be a ludicrous statement, and one which is still worthy of ridicule, if you indeed choose to ridicule those who predicted a Celtic league victory.
That notwithstanding,I now believe Gordon Strachan is demonstrating a weakness and inability to handle the pressure of a sustaned challenge. Unlike you, I do not believe that challenge has come from a good team. I just think we, Celtic, have regressed.
Rangers haven't left us behind. we have allowed them to catch up. Subtle difference, but a difference none the less.
Let's be honest, Rangers were at rock bottom. They could not get any worse, only better.
The manager picks the team. The team should be good enough to beat the current Rangers side who, while not exactly crap, are no great shakes.
If the team fails, then, yes, the buck stops at the manager and he should go.
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I have never been a GS fan sorry but I think a few players dont like him also!!! His snidey wee comments and his tactical nonsense bother the heck out of me. He has failed and I am glad!! Sure there'll be comments now about this but the guy doesnt have it he has ridden his luck and now it is over!! We have handed them the treble on a plate that he has dished up to them. Very annoyed all these miles away!!
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Fan-a-tic:Appreciate your support when swimming against a tide of complacency from those branding genuine Celtic fans as Huns for spelling out the real facts.
The CQN establishment are so far out of touch with grass-roots Celtic opinion that they don't realize that the thousands of empty seats and closed tiers tonight show that our fans are voting with their feet on Strachanb's mis-management this season.
Watch the season ticket sales dive this summer- even after Mr Strachan goes.
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Sean South
I cannot disagree with you. They chose to go down a road with their signings where skill has been overlooked for heart to a certain extent, and also Scottish guys who know what it's all about. So far it's working for them more than even they would have beleived I imagine.
I thought we would have been too skillful for that and we would remain on top. It has surprised me we haven't so far but May is still a wee while away. I would also argue that as things stand, the biggest waste of our money has been Scott Brown. £4.5million for a midfielder who cannot trap, pass or run with a ball, is not money well spent but I agree Donatio is not living up to star billing.
Make Hartley the mainstay of our midfield until the seasons end and make him Captain. Gordon Strachans worst decision this year has been to make Stephen McManus Captain.
To even things up a bit, I think Hinkel is starting to show some great form and looking like the right back we've been looking for.
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pab could'nt agree more on the captain situation!! That sums GS up. On the Hinkel front how bout playing him wide right when Wilson or Doumbe are fit and let Naka rove??
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Stuart
I asked the question on the previous blog about whether anyone still views Sundays match as 'the goaldifference game' which it has been referred to.
I see 10 outfield players sitting on the edge of their box at 0-0 with 10 minutes to go and Gary Caldwell pumping a high one up for JVOH. There's no way that's going to be happening is there?
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Wizard of OZ:Yes, I said the three-in-a-row was lost as far back as last August.
I believe the final SPL table will prove beyond doubt that my forecast was anything but "ludicrous" as you suggest.
The decisions (or more correctly the lack of them) that were made (or not made)in August cost us the League.
We had a huge financial advantage over Rangers which we did not drive home.
They were able to bring in decent, experienced, bargain basement players when we had the cash to recruit much higher quality performers.
Of course, the League race wasn't over then. We could still have brought in quality players in January- but that is always a much harder window in which to sign players.
And, while I believe Smith has turned Rangers into a decent TEAM I still believe that, despite their commitment, spirit and physical strength, they are of dubious quality.
But, sadly for the Celtic support. Strachan has failed miserably at the first hint of a challenge from down Govan way.
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textim
It was said when he signed that he would be able to play right-midfield and it's easy to see why. He is good going forward and is looking pacier by the game. He could well be a good shout out there.
I would love to see Nakamura in that free-role position. For me, he simply has no pace for a strict wide position. far too many of our counter-attacks end with Nakamura at the halfway line looking for a pass when a more direct run at the defense is the best option. His best skill is his vision and passing which i feel could be better utilised in a more central position.
What's Didier Agathe doing these days anyway?
On another point, you would think 8 30mg co-codamol and 2 lemsip max strengths would shift the flu and make me forget about tonight but you would be wrong!
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Porridgeandbananas:We were supposed to have put one over on Rangers with the Brown signing. He is the most over-rated midfielder I have seen in a very long time.Tries to be flash but can't even do the basics.
Donati is powder puff and JVOH is a lumbering second-rater.
Strachan should be fired for those three signings alone and that isn't even taking Gravesen, Jarosik, Virgo etc into account.
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Look, there's too much damn hysteria over under-par performances in two of four trophies we would GLADY sacrfiice for success in the other two.
Hitting the CL last 16 again was a damn good achievement for a team once more in transition and certain big money buys proving inconsistent.
As for the CIS and tonight's Aberdeen defeat in the Scottish - well, ONLY the league really matters. Nothing so anti-climactic as a cup final after the league's been lost, i.e 2005.
The bitternes sfrom some of the whiner son here is astonishing. Strachan's doing a GOOd job, though it sticks in the throats of some to admit it.
Back-to-back titles, and CL last sixteens in his first 2 seasons that we honestly thought would be rebuilding slogs.
MON left a MESS, the squad in a shambolic state. GS has done what he can with half the resources and without MON's luck in inheriting Henrik.
Sometimes GS gets it wrong. Sometimes the players underperform.
Sometimes they OVERPERFORM, let's not forget - Milan, Shaktar, Benfica.
What's been missing this season is a consistency of general galvanisation. i.e not everyone's manage dto fire on all guns at the same time often enough and we'v erelied on certain player sto carry the team at certain times.
Whereas, the Rangers one-trick ponies have played well as a team with great spirit but predictable formations and gameplan. Lionel Messi - 'Glasgow Rangers play anti-football'.
By the way, anyone who thinks they're performing better of fthe park than us needs a serious reality, not to mention arithmetic check. Go study some of their account - online for all to see and look, just LOOK at the bulge in the rug from the shit swept under it.
And if one of their major shareholders gets it in the neck from foreign financial authorities, as he may well do in the coming months, all hell might break loose.
Anyway, that's not Celtic's concern.
We're due a run of form. We're due plenty of names to get their fingers out, and they're going to hear about it from the support after the Cup exit.
ALL that matters is taking the title again. That's the job we set out to do last August, and until there's failure or capitulation there can be no judgemental lynchings.
3 Old Firm games to come in quick succession.
That'll sort the men from the boys. If there's any players not able to cut it we'll soon find out.
I just get the feeling the huns are about to shoot their bolt and it's us that'll be smiling come May.
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P&B,
This evening at 19:40 I told this guy that maybe thumping 6 or 7 past Border's Schoolboys may be the release we need, but at nine thirty, like you it looks like a challenge.
I totally agree with your post at 1am. Even my mate who's a Ranger's season ticket holder accepts that Celtic have the better squad, and in fact that only Ferguson would get a start in an old-firm XI (shudder!) So that leaves one place to look. Why do the players look despondent, unmotivated, baffled. It's gotta be Gordon.
It really bugs me when fans say Balde's the answer, or Riordan's the answer. I think there's almost no evidence this season that indicates that either of them even really know what the question is. So I'm going to bug myself when I ask, WHAT DID HARTLEY DO WRONG? He's no Zidane, but on recent perfomances I'd have him ahead of Brown and Donati.
So here's my plan. Put Strachan on the back burner and offer Jose an 8 week contract to win a title.
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sean south
I agree on Scott Brown, I've been saying it for a while about how poor he is at the basics. I am forever getting at my wee bhoy when we are out playing football and he keeps trying Ronaldo and Mcgeady skills before he has learned how to control or pass.
You only had to look at the way Barca played the other week. Their basics were flawless and allows them to then display all their special talents.
I don't mean to bang on about Scott Brown all the time, it's just that I had such high hopes with him and it pains me to see the way he has gone backwards since signing for us. I would love to know exactly why this has happened.
There is a trend developing though were previously high quality midfielders are not cutting it at Celtic. Is it coincidence or not? Graveson, Jarosik and Brown are/have played to a lesser standard than that before they arrived. Why is this?
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Bailing out now...munchkin has just vomitted all over her bed.
Nite
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Flynn,
There's certainly truth in what you say. Last 16 CL and a league win would put the CIS & Scottish Cups in the shade.
The worry is that on performances like tonight taking 9 points off THEM looks like something from Roy of the Rovers.
Also agree about the shambles that MoN left, and that broadly the board and WGS have improved the financial position of the club and rejuvenated the squad. But we failed to capitalise on that and fill obvious gaps in the squad in the summer (cover at LB & RB) which cost us dear in December. Meanwhile Wattie has pulled a Lazarus, creating a TEAM out of ropey pieces. He's got it all to do again this summer though, since he's buying one-last-gasp players.
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Sean South
I just lost a long post in reply to your points and I'm glad I did because it got a bit needlessly personal in response to your digs at Paul and the blog.
"Paul's poodles"
"Martin42, seemingly seduced by the GOD theory."
and the old "CQN clique" comment.
I've tried previously with gentle ridicule to disillusion you about your reading of people you don't know. Maybe it's a habit that comes from tabloid journalism but it is very fixed and I don't think now that any amount of evidence will change your tendencies there.
You've acknowledged that your animosity to WGS stemmed from a personal incident where you felt he did not treat you with sufficient respect. This has coloured your view towards him. You can luxuriate in being right tonight and recently but you were very wrong for two years there.
Is it a possibility that you've taken a similar dislike to people who have not had the privilege of meeting you (Paul, Martin e.g.) but who, like WGS, may not have treated your views with the same reverence in which you hold them?
BTW, I am not disagreeing with your statements on the team tonight. We were very poor and we're deservedly out of the Cup I wanted to win.
I'll still be there on Sunday in Livingston and I'll still be cheering us on to 3 in a row until we achieve it or it is mathematically impossible to do so.
I'm off to bed now. I'll catch you again on here. Maybe we'll both be a bit less grumpy then.
Hail Hail
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I meant to say earlier as well about Boruc when they scored. I kept watching him after he blootered the ball into the crowd. He went to get tore into Mcmanus then turned away as if there would have been no point. He then stood at his post totally down.
I wonder how much longer he takes playing behind a defence like that one? I fear it will not be much longer.
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Hate to keep saying it but Zidane and Platini at their peak would struggle in our midfield with this coaches tactical failings.
A normal distance from front to back in most football teams is about 40 yards,but in our team,and i use the word loosely the distance is about 60.
This leaves way to big an area for our midfielders to cover which is why they always seem stuck in no mans land.
Until our coach learns to make our team a more cohesive unit rather than seperate parts we will always have problems.
In 3 years GS has talked about fast flowing possession football and i have yet to see it.
We have the best squad in SPL but sadly our coach doesn,t know how to turn it into a team.
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P&B,
Agree about Scott Brown. Though I'm prepared to accept that he does things for the team that go un-noticed. Shutting down areas, being available, covering men, preventing passes being made etc...
I just hoped he'd be the player I hoped Graveson would be (and by his pedigree should have been) I don't know who we need in there, but I'd say that picking Hartley every game till the end of the season and choosing him a partner wouldn;t be a bad idea. My pick would be Robson, we need goals from central midfield, and he can score them.
On Skippy, yes his form has dropped, but I think he'll play his way back to it. If only he had a partner that could take up the slack...
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Steady on fholks! I was at the game tonight and left as disappointed as the rest of us. But can we have a wee bit of perspective, please?
I don't want to sound like Father Ted trying to explain perspective to Father Dougal (hilarious though that was), because that would be patronising and I don't want to trivialise anyone's pain, because I'm sure we are all of us feeling it right now.
And I don't like anyone calling posters on CQN huns, or even implying it.
BUT, the almost triumphalist tone of TexTim and Sean South's 'I told you so' posts is hard to stomach on a night like this. How any Celtic fan can say (about WGS) "He has failed and I am glad" or can talk about "this capitulation" (to the Huns) when we've got 10 games to go, including both our home games against them, is beyond me. Yes, we lost to them at Ibrox, but only after having had 9 players booked. Doesn't sound like capitulation to me - more like cheating and intimidation by McCurry.
Yes, we might not win the league this year and I'm more than a bit worried just now, but lets not do a post mortem while our league challenge is still alive.
And Sean South - once again your thinking baffles me. Even to mention the Q word in the context of this Rangers team is well within the Pale as far as I'm concerned (see what I did there?). They are not crap, but they're not a great team either.
I don't think it's fair to say we had no tactics or that we got our tactics completely wrong tonight. I haven't seen any stats yet, but given possession and territory we had, never mind the number of shots, we had enough chances to put this game away three or four times over.
Of course we've got problems - we can all see that. We need to break down these ultra-negative 'Wattenacio' tactics that teams adopt against us, or we will lose the league. Maybe a good starting point would be to make the players watch DVDs of the Lisbon game - half a dozen times at least - to see how its done. The main lesson (imvho) this team could learn is when teams pack their penalty box, you need to be rattling shots in from outside the box - a la Tommy Gemmell.
And finally, yes, 'STAND UP FOR THE CHAMPIONS' is a slogan. I can't think of a better slogan for Celtic SUPPORTERS.
craggyisland CSC
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Stuart
Hartley and Robson doesn't sound too bad, got a goal between them against the favourites for the Champions League no less. I was wondering if Robson might be better wide and free up Naka to do some damage from the middle. We have created nothing form the centre of the park for ages and maybe Naka could wave his wand in there.
The very fact we are discussing the best centre midfield pairing at this late stage of the season is ridiculous. By now we should know our first choice spine of the team and not trying out new combinations in a desperate effort to find the key to our problems.
AAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH
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fan-a-tic,
Great point on the separation front to back, that's true, about the space they have to cover, but also it means when we're up against a team playing with a smaller separation (all of them?) we're out numbered in that space. Maybe that's why SB & MD look like they're out of their depth.
I guess that's why pace is so important, and maybe the absence of genuine pace means we feel we need to play stretched out.
I noticed the Boruc incident at the goal, and also that he tossed his gloves on the pitch at Full Time and left them there. If you were Boruc & McGeady's agent what would you be saying to them?
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At 19/03/08 01:38, fan-a-tic
I wouldn't normally post immediately after such a defeat but I just wanted to say that I agree with you.
I think the reason we don't play as a cohesive unit is the lack of pace at CB. The CBs don't push forward and compact the play as they fear the fast movement and interplay from opposition forwards.
It also seems that when Aiden is not in outstanding form we struggle badly as there is no one else providing the guile and creativity needed to break down teams who defend in depth and can smother our central midfield.
Lack of a composed and cultured cutting edge up front doesn't help. Skippy has suffered a dip in form and there's no one to take up the slack. We do not present a goal threat from midfield and unless Robson changes that, the best we can look forward to is a series of odd goal victories in the run in.
'GG taking a long count but not throwing in the towel.
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Stuart...lets not forget that JVOH has scored 15 goals this season to Skippys 25..not a bad at picking up slack. Samara has 3 and that is from a total of 420 minutes of play...or a goal every 140 minutes...which is probably as good as Skippy has in 40 games (most of which he has played all 90 minutes).
They are all mediocre finishers...only having the record that they have due to the number of shots they have had. I bet that all of their goals to atempts ratios are poor.
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Sorry Paul,
That was a shocker.
On the back of many this season.
There are serious issues in the background. There cant be any reasonable explanations as to the poor form of this season when it mattered most. I can not envisage victories against R****rs if it really matters.
This team are rudderless.
Ironbhoy.
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We created enough chances tonight to win 3 or 4 games. The problem is we don't have a Larsson to put them away-McDonald or Jan ain't in the same class. Yes WGS does have to take the flak but so do the players-how many chances do you need to score? If only we had the new Henrick-are you listening SSM?
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I haven't posted on CQN for a while but after witnessing tonight's debacle, i feel inclined to.
I tend to agree with most of what WizardofOZ says and I would say that on the most part I have been supportive of Strachan but I really feel that come the end of the season it will be time for a change.
I said when Paul first mooted his GoD that I thought it was well wide of the mark and that has been proven. The most disappointing thing is that there was (and probably still is) an opportunity to really move far ahead of Rangers. We've missed that for now.
Paul, you say the Celtic team doesn't lack fight, I disagree, the only characters in that side are Boruc and to some extent McGeady. Brown channels his aggression in the wrong ways and at the wrong time.
Strachan has made some poor buys and his tactical nous is just not there. Donati has put in some of the most awful performances i've seen in a long time.
It's been a long time since i've felt this but i fear going to Ibrox. It's not that I fear getting done over big time, i doubt that will happen but i just don't feel we have much chance.
Larsson once said that when the game was tough, he looked around at the characters around him, at Thompson, Lennon, Sutton, Mjallby, guys who he knew he could count on, who were capable of making a difference and digging in. Who do we have that we can look to? A Naka free kick perhaps and let's face it he's not done much else recently.
I agree that MON left the team in a bit of a mess but at their peak they were so far ahead of the current team, its not funny. I used to love the European nights when we gave Liverpool, Stuttgart and many more a doing. Strachan has taken the team to the last 16 but let's face it, he's been a bit jammy and that's disguised the inadequacies.
Anyway, rant over for today but GerryAdamsBeard, if you don't think we capitulated at Ibrox last time, you were watching a different game to me. McCurry aside, we were terrible that day and completely lacked fight.
I don't have any confidence in this team doing anything at Ibrox. We might be lucky as Lou Macari was on his managerial debut there but even if we are it is only papering over the cracks.
Northy
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Oxonbhoy,
I feel the players are restricted to play a natural game.
Why a manager signs players to play a different position is the question.
Ironbhoy.
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GerryAdams'Beard,
(Like the name though I always laugh at the thought of a single Beard being shared between multiple Gerry Adams(es) - now that sounds like something from Craggy Island.
You're spot on we need shots from distance. Force the defence to come out and shut down. At the moment it's like watching Chess (with no bishops) when we try to break through the massed ranks.
The other tactic that will work is getting wingers on their natural side, getting to the bye line and hammering cut-back crosses for THE ENORMOUS DUTCHMAN who lives for that ball. Even if the packed defence cope with the cross, sooner or later the corner count or pressure will get them, or they'll make an error, or (shock horror) concede a penalty.
Shuttling back and forth along the defensive wall asking for a gap is a low odds tactic; in fact I think it's only viable if you employ the other options (or have a Zidane / Ronaldinho who can unlock the defence through its heart.)
P&B,
I love Naka, I really do, but can't see him penetrating through the middle. If he had that (and an extra yard of pace) he'd be a world-class playmaker.
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Im off to my pit lads, those co-codamols kicking in now!
Pain of tonight will still be there when I wake up, though it will probably be Friday before i do!
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Oh and 1 last post before bed .
I thought the Aberdeen fans were superb, they supported their team all night and shut us up almost everytime we started a wee tune.
Imagine if we had a support that got behind the players.
While it wasn;t pretty I bet the Aberdeen players executed the manager's tactics to the letter. In fact I think if you read Jimmy Nichol's interview in yesterday's Herald, it could have been written after the match.
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Porridgeandbananas @ 1.00 - I think you're onto something re PH and the captaincy. Right now we need some leadership and a bit more drive and fight in the midfield and it could be that PH could provide this. I'm glad these are not my decisions to make, though...
flynn - great post - that's what I mean about perspective!
sftb - as always, a reasoned and measured post.
northy - take your point - I didn't explain myself very well. I was well hacked off during and after the game at Ibrox, because it did look like we capitulated. But a few folk made the point at the time, what were the players supposed to do when they were getting booked for next to nothing and getting no protection from the hammerthrowers? My real point was that we have not capitulated/given up on the league - we've still got it all to play for.
aintovertillitsover CSC
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An interesting we stat. In the SPL this season we have had 400 shots at goal..managing to put 66 in the back of the net....a pathetic 16% success rate.
I did not realize that Aiden has had only 4 shots less at goal that Skippy.
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I've backed Gordon Strachan from day 1. Why? Because he's the Celtic Manager. Why wouldn't I back him?
Having said that, it would be foolish for me to deny that Gordon's job (& my views along with him) are currently on very shaky ground.
I could have lived with not winning the league this season. Hell, I could maybe (just) have coped with not even winning a trophy. But to fail to reach even the semi-finals of either cup competition on top of losing the league, if that's the way things work out, may well be too much to bear.
Old habits die hard, however & I'll continue to support him for as long as he's in the job.
Speaking of which...
There are two charges often levelled at Gordon, both of which have already appeared on this thread, that always strike me as particularly unfair. It so happens that they were made by textim & Sean South on this occasion, but I've seen them raised by others both on & outwith CQN.
The first is the reference to his "snidey wee comments" (textim 00:56). I'm sorry textim, but of all the criticisms you could (possibly justifiably) level at Gordon this is the least relevant IMO. Criticise him for his transfer record, his tactics or his man-management by all means but his handling of the media is very much a minor issue as far as I'm concerned.
Apologies if I'm wrong textim, but whenever I read your posts you always strike me as being one of those fans "who never liked Strachan and never will". For me their opinions carry very little weight because it's clear that they will never support Gordon Strachan no matter how succesful he is. In effect their minds are closed, which, IMO completely undermines their arguement.
The other charge which I think is unfair is "Strachan has failed miserably at the first hint of a challenge from down Govan way"
(Sean South @ 01.10).
The inference is that because we won the league by such a wide margin in the previous two seasons it somehow undermines the achievement. In effect, the overwhelming title victories Gordon achieved in his first two seasons are now actually being used as a stick to beat him with should this season go pear-shaped.
Is that really fair? Why can't we just give our Manager the praise he deserves for grinding our opponents into the dirt in his first two seasons? What else was he supposed to do? Win less convincingly in order to make the challenge look more difficult? It seems to me that it would be just as reasonable to argue that his great success over the two previous seasons should earn him extra brownie points when it comes to evaluating his performance this season.
Besides, couldn't the same criticism be levelled at Martin O'Neill? I was a huge admirer of MON (I still am) but it should be noted that his SPL record was one of extremes in the sense that he either won the league by a mile - or else he lost it (twice).
Is it fair to accuse MON of failing miserably at the first sign of a challenge from Rangers? And then failing miserably again at the second sign of a challenge?If not why are we giving Gordon Strachan stick for the same thing?
Sean South, I think you are right about one thing. I agree that those of us who support Gordon Strachan are losing the impetus & it may well be that his time will be up regardless of how the rest of the season turns out.
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GerryAdams'Beard:
You should be careful don’t you know that a wee bit of objective perspective from somebody who was actually at the game is will be spun to delusional blind faith and puppy optimism.
Congratulations to Aberdeen. I hope you go on and win the Cup. A trophy I wouldn’t have minded winning. Don’t really like your style but job done.
There are times when the better team just can’t win a game that they totally dominate. Just ask Tommy Burns his view on that last sentence. Teams repeatedly set out their stall to frustrate Celtic. They play of the break and hope to cash in on whatever scraps come their way. Should they be fortunate to put the ball in the pokie then it is immediate fall back and man the 18 yard barricade. Every man and his dog.
Sometimes I THINK Celtic has done similar themselves.
Sometimes you can overcome such a game plan and sometimes you can’t. Sometimes there is no accounting for luck or lack thereof in a game of football.
It would not have mattered a jot who managed our team tonight. Our luck was not in and Aberdeen took the spoils by being spoilers. All within the rules of course.
Pity so many are throwing their toys out of the pram, their soiled towels in the ring, spitting the dummy as far as their grasping breath will allow them. But hey!!! don’t jump guys, not yet, cause you haven’t heard the fat lady sing and I SO WANT YOU TO HEAR THAT. With a little luck she won’t be singing for us though. She’ll be singing for them.
I’m still standing. No knee jerking from me, though I have had better days.
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Tut!! Tut!! Dick Byrne.
Now you’re trying to corrupt this blog with logic and pragmatism and dressing it with fairness. Such traits were abolished with the appointment of ‘Strachan’, or so I’ve been led to believe.
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Dick Byrne
Yes, I have never been a GS fan. All he ever did was quit job after job. He has been a lucky man and finally it is running out!
This team is not the free flowing fast footballing product he said he would produce and TEAM 3 was I guess going to be the finished product!! He jests me thinks! Yes I am trivial regarding his snide wee commments but a Celtic manager should not be portraying himself in that manner.
He has had enough money to bring a team of note but we are flawed all over the park. He has failed to bring Celtic players to our club and has not achieved a style of play that alot of fans would like to see hence the dwindling gates and appathy. We have no spine in the team and his appointment of captain wasn't the right one. Too many get a pass with mediocre performances and start the next week and why he never changes formations for different opposition beggars disbelief particularly at home when most teams play 1 up front.
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The great sucking sound heard at Parkhead was the team's Momentum. Ours is going south and their's is going up. When you have no momentum, you get no luck and vice versa.
The only positive left in the season is there is nothing left to play for except the league.
Desperate times will test how desperate this team is.
Winning the league is still possible but these players and this manager have put themselves and us in this very precarious position. If they fail, it will be back to the drawing board in many ways. If they climb out of this hole they have dug, then its a bridge to a strong future.
You have the rope, players and manager. I am sincere when I say, Good Luck.
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Let’s face facts here. We are on the verge of a disastrous season unless we turn things around & we win the league. Losing in the last 16 of the Champions League I can take, especially against a team far superior to us in everything. Losing against Hearts in the CIS Cup was a sore one but not as bad as losing against Aberdeen last night in the Scottish Cup, a tournament with more prestige than it’s League Cup counterpart, though it would have been nice to win as much silverware as possible this campaign. After all, there is nothing better than basking in the glory of seeing our Bhoys parading a trophy.
A lot of our fans thought at the beginning of the season that we would romp home in the title race, or lack of one as was thought. Rangers have surprised a lot of people this term but with the squad we have at our disposal in comparison to theirs, we should be ahead of them. The fact that we are not can, & will be, put down to many factors , be it the manager’s team selection, his purchases, refereeing decisions, etc, etc.
Some supporters on here have stated that Rangers have players of a lesser quality than ours but who are willing to run through brick walls for their manager. That appears all too true. They also have a captain who seems to have his on field allies working their asses of for him & they fight for one another. I don’t believe Stephen McManus is a leader on the park, or even a decent centre half for that matter, but our manager does, therefore he seems immune from being dropped. What we need in this title run in is for every player who steps on to the field of play to lead from the front, to be a captain without the armband, to help his team mates when they are in trouble. What we need is for every man to stand up & be counted upon. This is now an ugly battle, a place where only fighters are required.
Scott Brown seems to be coming in for some stick but the Bhoy doesn’t have a chance as long as the manager keeps chopping & changing the midfield. I can’t believe those that doubt his ability & slag him off, stating he doesn’t possess the basics requirements for a quality player. Leave him in the middle with someone like Paul Hartley, a man capable of leading from the front & watch him go. We’ve all seem him cover every blade of grass on the pitch & know that he has the engine to run all day. With Paul covering for him, this will let him get on with his natural game & to support the strikers during the match. As stated by many on here, not having a settled line up at this stage of the season seems ludicrous. This can not help us in any way.
Whoever is chosen to represent us from now on must realise that only 100 % will do. No shirking of their responsibilities, no giving up on lost causes, no tossing in the towel. They have to be made to realise what Celtic means to the fans, the family that we all are, the lifeblood of this beautiful club, to understand that they are not just playing for any football team but are playing for Celtic.
Now is the time to unite as one & take on this challenge that Rangers have thrown down to us. Now is the time to show that we truly are “ the finest team in Scotland ”.
Hail Hail
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Why did I know Sean South would be ranting on about his views and this representing a sizeable portion of the Celtic support. Sizeable , you and all your pals Sean. Watching the bbc site from work I could see that we had close to 70% possession and were beaten by a sucker punch. We need to score to win games , time must be running out for JVOH. I for one won't stop shouting for us to win every game from now until the end of the season and I must be one the minority , Sean and co , who still thinks that Celtic should keep faith with Gordon Strachan . I am sure he will know himself when he doesn't carry enough of the support of the team , the fans and the PLC. Gutted but Celtic , win , lose or draw. Fight to the end. Threeinarowherewego.
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