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First , just for a laugh
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I think Barry will get a start tonight - and do a job for us against his old team.
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Cant be bothered going for a top 3 finish.
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NeilR - I hurt my knee at the gym yesterday, I'll no be playing the night.
On a more serisous note... anyone from motherwell (TokenTim - deek outside your window mate) what are the honest chances of the game being on on Sat. Also, does anyone know when a liley pitch inspection will be? Dont want to trapse all the way through just to be told as I get there the games off.
Further to my post of yesterday, I forgot jock brown, paul micthell, scott booth and dougie vipond (met him at t in the park and he was a fud).
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Paul,
You posted anew whilst Malceye and I were talking. Tut tut.
Anyway, it's another season defining game tonight, coming on the back of two cup game distractions.
Malceye,
I'm afraid the slogan now is. "The Buck Stops Anywhere But Here."
Certainly true when you look at the Tribunals currently engulfing our beloved Taoiseach.
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I hope that the Dundee United players have one eye on the weekend, and are reluctant to really get stuck in for fear of injuries. If this is the case and we can take full advantage, then we should hopefully win quite comfortably.
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I reckon we may see a weakened United team tonight, I believe Levein was fairly unhappy at the scheduling of the game for tonight so he may well take the opportunity to rest a few for the final on Sunday.
I certainly hope they can do the business on Sunday.
I have a wee feeling for a Man Ure v Liverpool semi final. What a game that would be.
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Does anyone else think that Utds eye maybe turned by Sundays Cup Final. There is no way any Utd player will go full tilt into a 50/50 tonight. If we hit them hard and early then they wont be up for it.
Levein may not like it but he's not the one trying to save himself for the Cup final.
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Paul67 -
a wee birdie told me that the Gretna v St Mirren match was postponed on account of the former's financial pickle, this combined with the Mothers' desire to preserve the pitch (which WAS playable) for Saturday (they're aching to get at us in the traditional manner)saw a convenient postponment.
WG
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Is Bobo fit - ideal chance to give our best defender a wee run out.
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The Hail Hail is horizontal in the Gorbals and is battering ma window like me trying to get into a late opening pub!
Hail Hail Hail Hail
Estadio
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I saw some pictures yesterday, purportedly of Fir Park, and it was like a ploughed fieled in strips.
It certainly didn't look a surface suitable for a game of football.
With further rain forecast this week, what are the prospects for our weekend game at Fir Park?
Has Walter been charged yet?
'GG make mine a double.
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I hope Arsenal win the Champions League... (and the EPL). That way, not only will we (the Scottish Champions) be guaranteed another CL group campaign, but we won't have to listen to the egotistical English telling us how superior they are after another English team has lifted European football's ultimate prize.
Actually we WILL have to listen to them making that claim, but at least we will be able to counter by offering up the sad fact that Arsenal are only an "English team" by geography, not content. There wasn't a single Englishman in the starting line-up for Arsenal's round of 16 game in Milan!
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Must be a very localised storm Estadio! I'm about two miles south of you and it is dry with a blue sky.
Oh and not surprisingly The Herald did not publish my letter criticising its coverage of WalterGate.
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GoldcrestWren
was it Garrincha?
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Bazza,
My own feeling, with the way the weather has been and reportedly will be, is that the game will be off.
However, WG has just posted that maybe all is not as bad as I fear and that the game should be a go-er (like Charlie Adams' sis if the posts on here and song are anything to go by!....ooops that might not go down to well, unlike Charlie Adams'.......on 2nd thoughts lets not go there! Hope I have not went toooo far there Paul)
You would think that after the last fiasco, if there is ANY doubt about the pitch a decision will be made on Friday evening, but is that using too much common sense for the SPL??
HAIL! HAIL!
Token
Ps - That's the rain just started again here in ML1
MichaelFish CSC
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BigChips, Bambi, St Gris, I cannot see United putting out a weakened side tonight. They will want momentum and confidence right for the weekend, which will be a similar game for them.
WG, an interesting piece of news on the agricultural land in ML1. Yes, I am sure the game on Saturday will go ahead, rain, hail or flood.
Estadio, it looks a terrible day for a game of football. High wind and rain 8 miles east of CP right now. I think that wind is the greatest leveller of all, more so than a bad pitch.
Will be good to get this one out of the way.
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I don’t think tonight will be a walkover, but a win none the less. We’re lucky enough that united have a far more important game on at the weekend, and will regard that as the game to give their all. They are not going to win the league but a nice shinny cup would do wonders for them and their fans. If they come out of tonight’s game with no injuries and have played well to boot, they’ll be geared up for their big match. Tonight will be a dress rehearsal on how to defeat the Fod. Well, I hope so.
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Jinkyredstar told me of an occasion,when after watching a Celtic defeat in a Tim-lined pub, with hail lashing against the windows, the mood was temporarily lifted by someone breaking into song "Celts!Celts! the hail is here"
John
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Gordon_J
It was heading north , but that may have been a quirk of the wind current up the street.
It's now passed so I am expecting magnificent sunshine any second!!
I may have a bit of a wait!!
Today's interesting Gorbal's event.....Man in black duffle coat sprinting down road shouting at an invisible woman....."I don't want you anymore, I don't want to see you ever again"
He then returned 5 minutes later, obviously searching for the missing woman.
5 minutes later, down the street he sprints again, this time being chased by a woman with a 'somerfields bag', this time he bore right at the top of the road shouting 'go away leave me alone, I don't want you'.
She didn't follow him, instead she turned left!
He shouted at her....'Where the **** are you going?*
She kept on running and he started chasing her shouting "you can't throw me out....I Love you...remember yer vows".
The sun has just come out!
Hail Hail Sun Sun
Estadio
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Paul67,
is there a reasong the game is not being shown live tonight ??
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Canalamar
Home league games are very rarely televised.
Hail hail
Estadio
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Estadio,
Todays "interesting Gorbals event" was quality!
Thanks for sharing that :-)
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3-1 the Hoops tonight!
I've been saying that score at most games that last month or so. Sat down to watch Linfield v Derry City the other night with no bet on. The n.Irish Huns win 3-1.
No matter, I would have bet on a Derry win anyway! The Mighty Candy Stripes look grand again with Stephen Kenny back in charge and wee John Robertson's done his runner after realising he had to work for his money!
Anyway, hoping on a win tonight of any type, enough to push on to 3IAR.
Estadio, class story, is that true?
Mucker
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Here's Malceye's diagnosis of the SPL current malaise from the previous thread:
· My point is that the shoddy nature of operations will inevitably lead to some saying "its no' worth it" when it comes to renewal. What with games being cancelled left right and centre, there is a degree of sympathy for that view.
Scottish football as a whole is under the cosh financially. This can only impact to the detriment of Celtic. We don't want apologies (this is unlikely in any event - we will be given the "extraordinary weather conditions" excuse), we want efficient and proper organisation.
The fairytale of Gretna has turned into a nightmare. But it is a nightmare for everyone else and a foreseeable one at that.
Completely correct.
So what to do?
Can anyone on this blog come up with a reasonable alternative to a much more egalitarian financial climate for the SPL? By which I mean a BIG slice of the gate money for visiting teams, more or less equal shares of all domestic TV money, a much less steep prize-money arrangement, moving Celtic and Rangers home games permanently to a different day to all other domestic matches (e.g. we get a Saturday game once a month, Rangers ditto, the rest get two or three Saturday games). More radically, (in the absence of the best equaliser - a wage-cap), an iron limit on squad size: say twenty players, with restricted flexibility to accommodate serious injuries, something like the DL system.
It tickles me when I'm feeling cheerful, and appals me the rest of the time, that nobody on this site has anything to say about this. Celtic are about two bad years away from having virtually nobody to play against. Paul can tell you more accurately than I, but I'd guess that even in a season with a good European run three-quarters of Celtic's income comes from domestic football. If the club is too short-sighted to pass back some of this money to the league as a whole then there will be a sudden and irretrievableable end to high-level professional football in Scotland.
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If Dundee Utd. are serious about qualifying for Europe then they will be putting out a strong team. They lose this one and they almost hand the UC place to Motherwell. I think that Levein would love to give his chairman some silverware and the guy deserves it. There will be a lot of DU players will want to demonstrate that they should not be left out for Sunday. This will be a very tough game but due to the heavy away schedule and the state of their pitches I expect Celtic to win comfortably and enjoy the experience.
Moving on to the CL my heart says Fenerbahce. It would give other small nations hope that they can win it. My Celtic head says Barcelona for Kudos. We were put out by not only the now joint favourites but the CL champions elect and I hope that the bookies get it right and that it´s a Barca Man U final.
I wonder however if Arsenal might get revenge on Barcelona and leave Henry wondering what might have been.
Hail Hail
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I may not be the best placed to answer any of those questions, but what kind of a Business would hand back income to competitors?
And not doing this is short sighted???
Confused Mucker
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I heard on BBC radio 5 that once Gretna go into Administration there is a real possibility that they will (before the end of the season) go into liquidation and cease to trade, if this is the case then all previous game sthis season will be null and void, not sure how but it would end up in a situation where we are only 1 point behind the Huns, no wonder the SFA sorted them out with a loan. Sorry being paranoid!!
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Estadio,
Ye canny beat the Glesga banter!
Deliasmith,
Why would we want an egalitarian financial system? Dreams of a socialist utopia aside, we are the big fish in this particular pool. And any talk of limiting expenditure, wages, etc, would be illegal under European law anyway ("restraint of trade").
Frankly I think a doomsday scenario is the best in the long term. There are way too many teams in this wee country, as we have debated on here before. Impending administration and liquidation of some clubs could lead to a few mergers and a stronger league.
darwiniancfc
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deliasmith,
movinbg our games permanently to a different day, and what day do you suggest, I suggest saturday.
I work away from home and only get home at weekends, if I get to see less games than I do now I doubt I'd be renewing my season ticket, I think there are loads of people in my position.
However, I like the idea of us playing on a saturday at 15:00pm its been so long, now if you were to suggest that the other teams play the other days them yes, but to request we move our games is a bit silly as we are the leagues biggest earner and protecting our income should be high on their agenda. ha ha ha see that, I'll get my coat.
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iggyploper,
1 point behind and one game in hand
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A long, long, long, long, long time ago, when I was but a boy, my older brother used to take me to watch the hoops. At every home game we would walk along the gallowgate to the ground, and down a wee cobbled st. When laying these cobbles many moons before, some gadgy laid out his cobbles and incorporated a little scene with goals, a boot and a ball. Looked out for it every time I went to watch the Celtic. Anyone know if these cobbles still exist?
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The way to take advantage of the Gretna situation is for an Easter Sunday Massacre. Rattle in 8, 9 or 10 and make our goal difference worth an extra point.
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deliasmith,
I honestly believe that Rangers protection racket the SFA has a lot to answer for. They have shaped how Scottish football is. Scottish football is polarised because of their anti Catholic agenda. They let it go on for 100 years. As a wee laddie growing up in Whitburn West Lothian my protestant Dad told me that I couldn´t support my local team because he didn´t think I should be subjected to the chanting and discrimination that would have been all too evident at Airdrie, Motherwell, Falkirk, Hearts and those teams were quite happy that young laddies like me DID not support them. This is why we have Celtic supporters buses leaving from Dundee and Aberdeen and Rangers buses also. How long did they think that this could go on for ?
I genuinely believe that we are Scottish football. Without us they would have nobody left to hate. Now that it´s actually illegal to behave in their "traditional way" they are crying about it?
So why should we advocate change. They need to start acting in a fair and civilised manner and then naturally the product would improve. It´s not going to happen though is it ?
We should keep them on a tight financial leash they get enough charity from us already and watch every single one of them fall by the way side.
fingerscrossedCSC
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AbMucker:
I may not be the best placed to answer any of those questions, but what kind of a Business would hand back income to competitors?
Inverness Caledonian Thistle, or Motherwell, are our competitors in only a narrow and highly specialised sense - we play football matches against them for points. They are not really, or not very much, our competitors in a business sense - we would be worse off, not better off, if they failed because we'd have nobody to play with. We might pick up a handful of ex-Motherwell fans, but what would they be watching?
This is why it is called a league - a combination. Celtic on its own is a pointless institution, we need opponents, and to flourish we need credible, attractive opponents.
I ask again - given the dire financial state of EVERY other club in Scotand, what alternatives can anyone offer?
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Iggyploper.
I noticed the comments about 'liquidation' as opposed to 'administration' of Gretna having that affect too.
Cancellation of all their results, for and against..
I tried to look at the SPL website to see what exactly the rules are, but no joy.
Anyone have a link?
Also, IF the short term loan to Gretna is enough to stave off liquidation, and therefore has the effect of PRESERVING their results, it would seem to benefit the FOD most in this current situation..
Who took the decision to authorize the loan?
I think we need TRANSPARENCY!!!!!!
Paranoia Prestwick Loyal.
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Deliasmith, you provide good food for thought. However, what you propose can only make any sort of sense if we accept your premise that Scottish football will die without such intervention; even then that sense is limited in my view. Adopting approaches such as a wage cap, iron limit on squad size etc will also mean that we can say goodbye forever to European football other than 1st round qualifying games as we will join the ranks of the traditionally weaker European football nations for whom qualification for tournaments proper has been deliberately made very difficult indeed. Scottish football will be even more parochial and far more irrelevant to the rest of Europe than is currently the case. I think that your drastic surgery might leave a dead patient in the operating theatre.
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31003
It was said that the boot and ball was a tribute to Jimmy Mc.Grory.
It was set in the cobbles beside, i think an old school at Camlachie. Oh, the fading memory.
Couldn't say if it is still there as I haven't passed that way in over 40 years.
The only answer, which won't happen, is for us and them to be out of Scottish football and give the rest a chance of achieving success.
The crowds Hibs got when Mc.Leish was chasing the First Division title, have not been equalled in the SPl, except for the obvious games.
Supporters are not al masochists, who just turn up to see their teams being beaten.
There are more empty seats at grounds where we play than ever before and that is the worrying thing for those clubs, because empty seats means we are subsidising those clubs less.
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From the Huddleboard via CM, Fir Park
Pic 1
Pic 2
Pic 3
pablophanque
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DBBIA
Thanks for the tip, I'll run it past her and see what she says! A swift boot in the nether regions will not be long in being applied to myself! Will definitely make it down one day, hopefully they can keep it up until the end. I see Swansea seem no longer the certainties they once looked. 7 points is a gap that can be reeled in.
On the Gretna situation, I think Motherwell could well hold the key to them finishing the season. I think they have come out and said already that they want their contract honoured in full or permission to continue playing at Fir Park will be denied. Surely it would be against SPL rules for a new ground-sharing agreement, and also who else would take them?
It's a sorry state, but one 99% of people could see coming, though maybe not as soon as this. I always felt that if they were relegated from the SPL once reaching there then that would be the point things would get messy, not right in the middle of an SPL season.
I was also going to buy tickets for the Gretna match next week, but I've held off until after any announcements on their future. I take it you won't see your ticket money if things go belly-up before next weekend or am I wrong?
I wonder what Club will be the next to join the lower leagues when the inevitable, whenever that is, happens? Surely the Bankies, currently playing Junior, won't rise like Lazarus and re-join?
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OK – some responses:
Awe No etc. There is a distinction between members of a league as opponents on the field, and on the terraces or grandstand, and as partners in a combination. Celtic have had to play against teams with obnoxious supporters ever since 1888. The alternative open to us is not to play only against teams with civilised fans, it is to play against nobody at all. If we keep our hard-earned all to ourselves and Kilmarnock, Hearts, Motherwell etc fail, how are we better off?
Cadizzy The limit on squad size would be domestic only, but even so, I concede it would adversely affect European chances. It might be ameliorated by a judicious use of loaners to England or overseas who could be brought back for European games. But my point is: weakness in Europe would be the lesser of two evils. The domestic game is essential, high achievement in the European game is not.
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pablophanque
I've played on some bad parks playing amateur and those photos are right up there with them. I know Parks were probably worse way back in the day but that pitch is a disgrace and in no way fit for professional football.
The forecast I've seen is for it to be mostly dry through to Saturday with only some light rain, but with a breeze the impact of rain should be lessened. Still won't be a day for silky football if it makes it.
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porridge,i cant see the bankies getting back into the senior leagues,unfortunately their park is just not suitable and there is neither the inclination or space in the area to build a new one
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Delia,
I can understand your statement and it would hold water if my money went to SPL PLC but it doesn't, it goes to Celtic for the advancement of my team. Not for Rankers, Motherwell, Gretna or any other. This is were we play and we want to be the best.
Youth Team development collections, Celtic TV, Season Tickets, Overseas developments, advertising, all small parts of one big PLC. Investments made and results expected.
Now we should instead give this income to other poorly run businesses? I understand the point of your arguement, just don't truely think you believe it a possibility!
Why then should I pay more than other fans to support my team? Why buy the merchandise, draw tickets, etc.?
Surely what you are looking for should be the SPL & SFA looking after the interests of Scottish clubs more and not Celtic looking after our rivals?
Mucker
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deliasmith,what does ameliorated mean?
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I'm not legally trained so I might well be utterly wrong but is it not more feasible that we could play in the English League, if all competition ended in Scotland for whatever reason? If so, I would welcome the day (almost as much as I would rejoice in the demise of the other teams who almost all hate us).
Here in the east end, the wind is still gusting quite strongly. I just hope that it stops this evening and that we win. At this stage, any winning score will do for me.
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Estadio
How 's the Gorbals looking these days? Is 'Anne's Fry' chippy still serving 'hoat' cuisine :o)
Danny
Did you get something sorted for your Japanese Bhoys on Sat?
GAWF
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Danny
No joy!
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deliasmith,
the reason why they are falling by the wayside is because of a lack of local support.
Why are they failing to attract their local support is what should be looked at.
I reckon that its due to the locals either not wanting to be associated with what their local team stands for and turning off from football i.e the majority or they prefer to get the bus into Glasgow to watch either Celtic or Rangers.
Difficult decisions need to be made to improve the product but if natural evolution is stifled by the footballing authorities due to them maintaining the "status-quo". I.e 51 Championships and counting then its not Celtic´s duty to help them. We need to stick the boot in until they wise up.
New clubs like Livingston and ICT have managed to blossom in relative terms to teams like Kilmarnock.
When a team which is in the same financial state as Kilmarnock would rather see an empty stand than face 5,000 Celtic fans celebrate a title win to the extent that their own manager is bewildered and states that this could allow him to sign a couple of Bosmans ! then I´m sorry we should not be addressing these problems.
If that means my great great grand son celebrating Celtic winning 50 in a row then good. Let it be as a reminder to their small mindedness.
Hail Hail
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Weather forecast for Motherwell up to the weekend. Fingers crossed it's accurate and the game might be on.
Thursday
Friday
Saturday
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ANNAOAN,
Very well put!
I get the arguement here in Aberdeen of 'I hate people from up here who go all the way to Galsgow to support a Team instead of supporting their Local team' quite a bit. Coming from Ireland, most people support a team from outwith thier local team and therefore the arguement is a bit lost on me.
I feel your arguement of actuakl product and Value for money is as good as any!
Mucker
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deliasmith, if you were to have the financial redistribution you mention and the wage cap, you would very soon not be able to attract players of a quality that teams in England or much place else would want to take them out on loan.Even if you did, you would be very unlikely to be permitted by UEFA to be able to recall them as and when you have a European tie. In any event, I would expect under this scenario,you would, in short order be unlikely to have European games after the earlier qualifying rounds so it becomes a noot point.
I understand your point about the lesser of two evils but that still is only relevant if we accept your premise that Scottish football will die without these actions.
Even if it did, as Parkheadcumsalford indicates, we could probably successfully apply for membership of the league down here in Foreign. We might not be able to start off in the EPL, but I doubt that we'd have to start at or near the bottom rung, never mind in non league. We may find it more attractive going to CP to watch Celtic play West Brom rather than Gretna (RIP) or Hearts (in ICU). Who knows, if Carlisle do catch Stoke and go on a charge up the tables like in the 70s, DBBIA of the Lazarus-like shipping forecasts (glorified weather forecasts if you ask me) may be put in something of a quandary re the number of goals he'd want Carlisle to concede against us (since obvioulsy he'd still want the Celts to win
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noot point should be moot point in my last post.
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I have to disagree with the "failing to attract local support" argument. Scotland is a country with a population of 5 million. Not all are football fans. That apart, we have Gretna with a population of just under 3,000. So what if they attracted 100% local support. Dundee has two teams, as does Edinburgh. As for the locals supporting teams such as Kilmarnock, St Mirren, Motherwell etc, if they did, then the support and consequently revenue for Celtic and Rankers would fall.
The fact is that out with us and them, the other teams are bigger than teams in the Irish Republic but of no more importance. We (and I suppose them) are simply too big for the pond we live in. I have sympathy with the view that we are the problem in terms of the game flourishing in Scotland.
Therefore the only solution is to look beyond the borders. Whether its England, mainland Europe, that's the only route which will allow us to grow.
If things continue on their current path then, for all the excitement we have in Europe, the game here will deteriorate dragging us down with it. Occasional competition for the title from Rankers will not retain the attention nor attract the cash of many a punter.
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I say let's worry about Fir Park after tonight's game.
I'm looking forward to it.
Say what you like about this season, but it's far from dull.
Come on the Hoops.
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Pablo -
I see Bob Malcolm on the tractor in those Fir Park photos - and he's awake !!
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Celtic first, You're right, it's been exciting!
I wonder how many fans would take the football of last year as long as we still won the league?
Although I'm not sure we won enough games at this time last year ????
Anyway, sticking with my 3-1.
Mucker
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celticlover
Could you mail me at :
dan_101101@yahoo.co.uk
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Blindlemonchitlin
From my understanding the SFA/SPL loan would apply to any club in the same position, but also Motherwell have a vested interest as they agreed to a ground share at the start of the season and will be out of pocket if Gretna cease to trade. Havent heard much about the consequences in the scottish press.
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Blindlemonchitlin
From my understanding the SFA/SPL loan would apply to any club in the same position, but also Motherwell have a vested interest as they agreed to a ground share at the start of the season and will be out of pocket if Gretna cease to trade. Havent heard much about the consequences in the scottish press.
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Blindlemonchitlin
From my understanding the SFA/SPL loan would apply to any club in the same position, but also Motherwell have a vested interest as they agreed to a ground share at the start of the season and will be out of pocket if Gretna cease to trade. Havent heard much about the consequences in the scottish press.
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Blindlemonchitlin
From my understanding the SFA/SPL loan would apply to any club in the same position, but also Motherwell have a vested interest as they agreed to a ground share at the start of the season and will be out of pocket if Gretna cease to trade. Havent heard much about the consequences in the scottish press.
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Say that again Iggyploper, I didn't quite catch it
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Sorry dont know what happened there
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I think it's in the SPL rules that any team can get a loan against prize money due at the end of the season.
Mind you, I don;t think Gretna will be expecting much prize money.....
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Administration, liquidation, redundancies ? All I can say is that Brooke Mileson and 3000 inhabitants of Gretna have "lived the dream" as Mr Ridsdale once said. Lucky them, the rest have to endure the nightmare.
Come in Lex Gold, your number is up!
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The Camlachie Cobbles from earlier
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Presumably when we were on the brink, there were no offers of loans from the football authorities in Scotland. Not that they had any money since they'd bet it all on Aye Ready XI winning the league.
Even so, I do not see anything sinister in the SPL/SFA trying to keep Gretna alive so they can fulfil their fixtures. It is far more desirable than voiding all their results and the points garnered by opposing teams though if we had not scored those two late goals at Fir Park, I might let downright selfishness take over completely and pray for them to go under before the end of the season.
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will the spl loan cover my mates wedding in Gretna?
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Arthur, under the SPL rules all weddings in Gretna have to take place in Motherwell
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I think that Sepp Blatter's statement that us and them are vital to the survival of Scottish football should be challenged.
We have in effect a duopoly ( I think that's a word), where only two teams can prosper.
How in anyone's imagination can a situation like that be of benefit to the game in general?
As I have previously claimed, what kind of supporter wants to pay good money to watch his team perform with virtually no hope of success.
Back in the old days,when football was king it was the high point in the working man's week.
It was affordable and you could take your children along with no extra expense.Also clubs were more evenly matched on the field.
Compare that with today. For many it is not affordable to go on their own, never mind taking their children.
The kick off times are messed around to suit television, which obviously also impinges on attendances.There are too many other holes for peoples money to go into.
Outside of the Glasgow pair, wages of the rest are on a relative shoe string level and you get what you pay for.
If the game in Scotland is to survive then we must depart and let the rest find their own level.
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Can anyone confirm that the cheat McCurry is the ref tonight?
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Thom The Thim,
Totally agree.
APART form....
I'd be happier if we left "them" behind.
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from
D'oh!
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At 12/03/08 15:21, Cadizzy said…
Even so, I do not see anything sinister in the SPL/SFA trying to keep Gretna alive so they can fulfil their fixtures. It is far more desirable than voiding all their results and the points garnered by opposing teams though if we had not scored those two late goals at Fir Park, I might let downright selfishness take over completely and pray for them to go under before the end of the season
*Might be wrang here but when a team forfiets a fixture such as illness down south or crowd trouble in Europe aren't the other side awarded a 2-0 victory.
If so then why can't all Gretna's remaning fixtures up to the split be dealt with that way and the remainder after be null and void, they're going tae be relegated anyway.
Anyway I've nae pity for them after their capitulating tae the huns for "good of the Scottish football".
Went aff the Bully Wee as well now that they've signed the former St Joseph's Helensburgh parishioner.
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From BBC Sport ticker:
"Gretna's administrator says the club must find £30,000 in 24 hours or it will go out of business."
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Tomdickfoolery
I'm attempting to communicate with Celticlover, so far unsuccessfully.
I responded to him first as he left a mail address and was sure he was going on Saturday.
Very kind offers from both of you so it's bit awkward 'choosing' one. I'll let you know asap how things are going.
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Paul,
is it not time we had an article on the culpability of Lex Gold in the Gretna debacle ? Its a situation that does directly affect Celtic - the continual postponement of the Motherwell fixture, the increasing derision directed toward the Scottish game to name but two examples.
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Calton Tongues,
Thanks for the boot information.
Myths and Legends, eh ?
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OK ghuys and ghals -
after the trip to Barcadeen it's back to the How We Win The League Tactic tonight and if you remember it (I'm going into Kojo mode wi ma reminders here) we need to be a minimum of two goals clear going into added time in the second half. It worked at Easter Road and is the key to Three In A Row. Any other scenario leaves the MIB with an ace card. Avoid At All Costs.
Teser Vouchers crying out at me so must dash to ML2.
Optima Petenda.
WG
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At 12/03/08 14:15, gordybhoy64 said…
porridge,i cant see the bankies getting back into the senior leagues,unfortunately their park is just not suitable and there is neither the inclination or space in the area to build a new one
*would be nice if they did and since they play up in Duntocher they could be renamed Clydebank Hibs.
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Ah’m in the mood tae get REALLY drunk tonight
(not done it for a looooong time)
Anybody out there in/near Morpeth, I’ll be the rubber man in the Black & Grey if ye fancy a jar. (This, of course, depends on whether I’m ALLOWED out or not!)
Enjoy the game tonight lhads.
3-1 to the Celts.
(but I wouldn’t bet my house on it. ©WGS) :-)
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First time I've sat and looked as things in the case of Gretna going out of business.
I make it we would go 1 point behind Rangers but they would have a game in hand.
I make it our league would then consist of 35 matches, of which we would have played 25. Our ten remaining games would be made up (as things currently stand) of Rangers(x3), Motherwell(x3), Dundee Utd(x2), Hibs and Falkirk. Of those matches we should play at Home v Rangers(x2), Motherwell, Falkirk, Hibs and Dundee Utd if the 2 times away and 2 at home system is to be followed.
They would play The Champions(x3), Motherwell(x2), Hibs(x2), Dundee Utd(x2), Falkirk and St Mirren. they would have 4 home and 7 away in the run-in.
The problem would be now that we would play 18 away and 17 and home if the placings stay as they are.
Of course this is all only if Gretna were to go out of business, which I hope does not happen.
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I agree with those who have said that Dundee United will be right up for tonight, and why shouldn't they be?
I hope they play their strongest possible team.
Nevertheless, if Celtic can build a lead and look to have the game won by 75 minutes, that's when Craig Levein's mind might turn to more important matters and help us achieve what WG has stipulated.
Do us proud Bhoys. Come on the Hoops.
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tomtinetim, I think you are right (though I think it is 3-0)unless you're Scotland playing in the World Cup qualifiers in Estonia with Sweden in the same group and a Swede installed as head of FIFA!The Scottish Establishment could learn a thing or two there.
However my point was about the SPL trying to ensure that Gretna fulfilled their fixtures which is in my view the best possible solution.
In the event that they do fold, I think that there is little difference in terms of fairness between awarding
3-0 wins until the split or cancelling all results so far.
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Danny
No Problem mate, go with Celticlover and if you cannot get anything arranged just drop me a line at tomdickfoolery@yahoo.co.uk
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Sorry, we would play 18 at home and 17 away and they would be the reverse. Wait for the outcry if that happens.
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Surely the awful stadium standards rule is partly responsible for Gretna's situation. They have had to invest heavily into a new stadium just to be in the SPL, money which they nor most lower leagues teams have. What makes matters worse with this rule is the lack of flexibility, the idea that Gretna would be relegated even if they survived as their stadium would be a little late is really harsh in my opinion.
In terms of the way clubs are run in Scotland, I think it's getting better. With the exception of a few clubs (Rangers and Hearts mainly), teams are starting to be more sensible with their money and focussing on rearing players rather than buy them. Hibs and Celtic are prime examples of well run clubs albeit the former could do with investing some back into the playing squad.
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Brooks Mileson and Lex Gold are the only culprits. Read this extract of an interview with Mileson in 2006 and ask yourself - why on earth were they ever permitted entry to the SPL ?
"Our record signing cost £60,000. We've spent a couple of hundred thousand in my whole time here. As for wages, the lower leagues in England and the Conference pay more. Nobody here is even on a four-figure weekly wage.
And it's not us who want 6,000 seats. We're a small club, we'll always be a small club. But if we have SPL ambitions, we need 6,000 seats. It's the rule."
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A couple of little `reversals` to contemplate: The `reasonable`consensus after the Aberdeen game was that a draw was a fair result (even Gordon said as much). However, had Aberdeen hit the post three times and Artur was the man of the match before they scored in the last minute ,would we still have been reading about a `fair` result? We weren`t great but we were by far the better side.
Secondly, if Dundee Utd were playing THEM tonight and us on Sunday, wouldn`t we think THEY were getting the rub of the green(!) in meeting United at the right time? This IS a good time to play United and Sunday is a good time for them to play THEM!
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Does anyone know why Brooks Mileson has withdrawn financial support? I know that he is ill but that should not automatically be the cause. I would have thought that he would have left instructions to keep the club going
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AbMucker 13.20.
Totally true.
I heard the shouting coming up the street and just knew that this was 'one to watch'. Out the door I went and the events unfolded as described. Can I just say....'This is not particularly unusual'!!
Tomdickfoolery. 14.18
Cale Flats have now gone, Stirlingfaulds due to disappear in June. Norfolk court next year.
Caledonian Road, Oatlands bit, now has an area called 'Richmond' Gate - an exclusive development, and tae get tae Shawfield dogs, you have to go up tae Polmadie and back down.
Only 4 pubs left in the area now Brazen/Granite City, Sharkey's, Riverside, and Pig'n whistle.
Lot of yuppies, but the heart is still there. Same people wae knew curtains, but community is still very strong.
Lots of 'them' mind you tend tae sneak in at nighttime and buy hooses when no-one is lookin!
Anne's Fry is still contributing massively to the early demise of sausage, kebab, hamburger, and piece'chip eaters throughout the Gorbals.
Personally I have a rule that I always qualify for a special fish supper when Celtic win (but not necessarily on the same night) and now have about 10 stacked up tae see me through the close season!
Let's hope it's number 11 tonight
Hail hail
Estadio
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Sorry about this lhads,
Going on Hols next week and as an Irishman now living in Scotland, wouldn't mind a look at one of those books being spoken about on here a couple of weeks ago.
Scottish History was the topic, I think one of the collection was called 'The Wallace'. Anyone point me in the right direction?
Mucker
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Cadizzy
I read somewhere that he is that seriously ill that his lawyers have been granted power of attorney and it is they who have decided to withdraw all financial support to Gretna.
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Porridgeandbananas
thanks for the response. That certainly sounds plausible.
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The following extracts from the SPL rules for next season clearly indicate where it has all gone wrong and where they have not learned lessons -
"Clubs are under obligation to take all reasonable steps to maintain the pitch of their Registered Ground in good order. The Board are entitled to direct a Club to take such steps as it considers necessary in order that an adequate standard of pitch may be secured.
Rule H6.6 requires each Club in membership of the League to ensure that there is an efficient and effective system of winter pitch protection at its Registered Ground and that the system is efficiently and effectively operated. All such systems must be under pitch or underground heated types. Clubs are required to fully utilise those systems where there is a reasonable possibility of a pitch otherwise being frozen or covered in snow or ice such that a match may be compromised."
What steps have been taken in relation to the Motherwell pitch ? This country and the west particularly is infamous for its wet weather. Excessive rain is just as damaging as frozen pitches. Does the SPL want to borrow my crystal ball ?What about OVER pitch protection ?
"Stadium Tenure and Occupation Arrangements
If a Club or Candidate Club intends to “ground share” or otherwise occupy a ground, other than one owned by the Club concerned, then such an arrangement requires the approval of the Board in terms of Rule A2.5."
Confirming that the decision to allow Gretna into the SPL and to ground share with Motherwell lies firmly at the door of the SPL. With a population of 3000, this was never going to work. Is there such a thing as a retrospective crystal ball ?!!
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Cadizzy
It still surprises me that he had left no arrangements to make sure Gretna were OK in his absence. I'm sure I read a couple of years ago that he was putting money in a trust fund to prevent this scenario.
I don't want to speak badly of an ill man but I'm sure things have probably never been as rosy as Mr Mileson has presented.
it's all going a bit like Rocky Balboa in Rocky V for Gretna. Those lawyers who have 'power of attorney'. I would have thought control of his assets would have passed to his son.
It's a sorry mess alright.
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Malceye, I was looking for those rules and couldn't find them. Are thet on the SPL site? Re your earlier comment
"Scotland is a country with a population of 5 million. Not all are football fans"
They are when we get beat
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Ab Mucker,
Nigel Tranter is the author you are looking for
BF
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Danny
Have sent you a reply
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Back to the weather.
does anyone remember this?
A semi final in the late 80s against Clydebanck I think when it was really bucketing down and of course the Celtic end at Hampden was uncovered so we were soaked to the skin. We got a good laugh when we started singing a revised version of the Soldier Song.
'Sailors are we....'
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porridgeandbananas
I heard somewhere (Radio 5 Live I think) that all finacial controls had indeed passed to his son but with other areas of Mr Mileson's business empire not looking so rosy the family has decided to take care of these.
It was also suggested that all ties to Gretna could be cut.
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Caddizzy
they are on the SPL site. You have to follow the trail beginning with "About the SPL".
They couldn't organise a bus timetable never mind a professional football fixture list.
As for the lawyers and Mileson scenario, I think this does indicate that not all was rosy in the garden. Mileson has been dogged by health issues for many years and I find it surprising that he would not have some contingency plan in place to deal with serious illness or even worse. That he didn't put such a plan into place when well is either very shortsighted on his part or an indication that he was well aware it was going belly-up.
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Malceye, thanks for that. I will follow thr trail!
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deliasmith
Long before we could even contemplate a redistribution of income there would have to be a willingness for root and branch change in Scottish football.
There is money around but with 40 registered league teams with their noses in the trough no wonder the spread of money is poor.
For a country of 5m people to be keeping 40 league teams in operation is to me a farce.
There needs to be a complete re-structure and mergers/acquisitions or indeed removals from the league structure and then we could look at ways of taking the finance available from national Governemnt, local Government, Pools Money, SFA international receipts and of course TV and see how best to develop things.
So many clubs keep going because the have sources of revenue that only occur because they are registered league teams (i.e Pools Money) but in any other sphere of sport or business they would not exist.
I find it hard to sympathise with those that say these clubs (examples like East Stirling and Cowdenbeath) serve a local community and they should carry on.
Average attendances for clubs like these of 200-300 per home game would suggest that any importance to the local community was way back in the mists of time and is no longer true today.
A massive re-structure of Scottish football is needed before anyone asks Celtic (or the dark ones for that matter) to put their hands in their pockets to help out.
Admirable intentions you have but sadly too many in Scottish football are bleeding dry the money that is available so I would have to say their intentions are a lot less admirable than yours.
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b2K
I certainly remember being soaked and was convinced the concrete steps were crumbling. I think the score was 2-0 but the only song I remember was about other teams not getting to Hampden!
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malceye
Mileson is a successful businessman there is no way that he unwittingly didn`t have a contigency plan in place in the event of his incapacity .
IMO the bubble is burst ...sad though it may be the Mileson well is dry
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Sir Paul
Speaking of referees...
Did you know that most people don't know this....
Celtic have an ex-referee in their midst( Midst?... where dat be?..ed)( He is employed by Celtic, as a commentator that commentates, what else.?... all of the Celtic Reserve and Yoof Gamees.)
The reason I mention this, is that for ages, we at the rancho, are more disappointed than not, by the poor quality of commentating which is being dished out, by the in situ crew of commentators, that are presently being used , by the Celtic Chan 67 organization.
I do not know if you have had ever the pleasure of listening to Mr. Gerry Harte.(ex- referee)
It is he who is presently the Celtic Reserve/Youth games commentator.
I can assure you that Gerry is far superior in every way to our current First Team Commentators,whose garbled descriptions and inane observations, we have to suffer through.
Now we come to the crux of this submission.
The fact that Gerry has had the experience in the past, of being a Grade 1 referee.....
It is sometimes an EYE OPENER...at least to myself... when Gerry informs the reason WHY, the recent decision by the referee, in the game that we are watching,had been made.
When we consider the why... then we realise, that maybe..just maybe... we were in danger of mis- interpreting the referee's decision...as we are...let's face it... inclined to be somewhat partizan in our conclusions, regarding ....ANY REFEREEING DECISION THAT GOES AGAINST US!
Gerry has given us a whole different slant on the refereeing process, by alerting us to the whys and the wherefores of certain refereeing decisions,made during the match that we were watching.
He highlighted our ignorance, in his explanation as to why that particular decision had been made by the referee.
A decision that we had tagged as Anti- Celtic bias...but, in reality... was the totally wrong conclusion.
Food for thought?
You betcha!
Kojo.
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off to the match
good luck bhoys
HAIL HAIL
STAND UP FOR THE CHAMPIONS
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AbMucker, buy the top two forthwith, and any others down below.
Nigel Tranter
pablophanque
Ps, I think delivery can be as early as 24 hours.
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does anyone know when Doumbe is back? I thought it was meant to be roughly Jan/Feb time?
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Hi all, just a quick post before i head to CP.
I have admit my heart sank when when i heard Honest Mike is on the whistle ( or level ) tonight.
A difficult game and i wonder what controversial suprises he has instore for us all this evening.
Sing up ghuys , Hail Hail.
Lynott67
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lynott67,
My bet is that if we are 2 or 3 ahead near the end we will get a penalty - just to show how fair minded he is.
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Goron J-
What concerns me is if its 0-0 and we get a stonewaller denied again.
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Our cup final is tonight (until the next one). Let's hope the Bhoys play like it.
I'm sure they will.
It's a great thing for us that there is such genuine competition for places throughout the team.
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pablophanque, is there a particular order for Tranter? I have read only Mail Royal.
Celtic67, a ruptured achilles is a very serious injury I would not expect Mr. Doumbe back before late April early May, sooner would be great.
BF
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just been annnounced that both reserves and under 19 games against gretna have been postponed.and to wait for more news,sounds as if gretna are doomed
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BHOYSFOUR, in my 'umble opinion !!! The Wallace is a must first read, followed by The Bruce Trilogy. In the back of one of those you should find a list of his books in chronological order of when they were written, but I would advise reading them in historical order. His history of Scotland will give you a good grounding of what that order is.
pablophanque
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Looks like Gretna FC is screwed. They can't afford to play at Aberdeen at the weekend as things stand.
Anyone wanna buy a football club? One previous owner, worn and creased. No stadium (yet) and few players.
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pablophanque,
Thankyou very much, I will start with your reccomendation "The Wallace", and go from there, I'll even start a collection for ma Da' who is also a big history buff.
3-1 the Bhoys tonight Samma with two, Skoosh a single.
C'mon the Hoops!
BF
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apologies, all you Spelling Bees out there "recommendation".
BF
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new article posted.
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gretna to find £30,000 by 12.00 tomorrow afternoon or the club will fold,a case of highnoon for gretna
garycooper csc
need to get 3 points tonight any win will do,skipy hatrick
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I'm gettin all excited, are there any links to hear the game, please?
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SO WHATS RTHE SCORE ???
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thought naka was our man of the match
scott mc donald looks very tired
scott brown looks like theres battle going on inside
we look tired
narrowbhoat is right, we'll just have to win all our other games
