 Thursday, March 13, 2008
Poor passing costs Celtic undefined damage
I don’t suppose any of us can be surprised. Apart from the Champions League and a Scottish Cup draw, Celtic have stuttered across the finish line in recent weeks; points were likely to be dropped.
Last night they failed to impose themselves on the game until after the hour mark against a well organised, but seldom inspiring Dundee United. McDonald and Nakamura both made the best of half chances, nicking the ball against the outside of a post, but the longer the game went on the more concerned I was that United keeper Łukasz Załuska had little to do.
The game ended with the customary Celtic Alamo charge, which must have stressed the Dundee United defence, but, not Zaluska, who beat away a shot from Andreas Hinkel and watched numerous shots sail high or wide.
“Too many bad passes” has become a persistent theme in Gordon Strachan’s post match press conferences, and it is beginning to resonate with me.
Easy passes were mostly completed, but (would be) telling passes invariably failed. Possession was surrendered with astonishingly regularity. I watched Aiden McGeady, who sparkled early on, wilt before my eyes as move after move ended predictably.
United created little, but kept their shape and pushed three men forward whenever they had possession. This forced Celtic to match up, which should not have been an insurmountable problem, but therein lies a tale.
It was not until Celtic broke free of their structure and flooded forward that they looked like winning the game.
I am becoming convinced that the shape of the team is wrong.
Another day brought another two central midfield combinations. We need a player with the menace of Scott Brown and the application of Scott McDonald, Barry Robson may well be the answer; his appearance coincided with Celtic looking more purposeful so he is worth a try.Labels: Match Report
91 Comments:
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We just blinked tonight , big time.
Dire frankly, but dont blame Mcgeady , sure he had a bit of an off night compared to his recent form but at least hes a footballer and has the courage to try and create.
You cant win a league with players of the calibre of Caldwell(although this wasnt one of his worst performances), Naylor or , worst culprit of all IMHO, JVOH.
If youre a striker you score goals in important (and thats not necessarily always BIG) games or create them for your teammates.
While Im at it, shame on those thousands of fans/ supporters who didnt show up tonight , especially if they didnt just because it was cold or there was football on the telly.
I doubt if the place was 1/3 full.
If the teams having an off night are they going to be motivated to go that extra yard thats needed of true winners when the place is barren ? -- naive to think they will.
if we expect the players to dig in when they have to is it unreasonable for the same to be expected of the fans? Isnt that what SUPPORTING your team is about?
I really hope we can turn this around but weve just handed them a huge boost at the worst possible time.
TLWIO
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Podium finish, best thing about my night :0)
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Paul - don't tell us the shape is wrong, get on the phone and tell the manager.
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win 10 out of 10 remaining games (aye right!!) and we'll have 95 pts
last year 74 points
year before 91 points
year before 92
year before 98
year before 97
year before 103
year before 97
Not good enough Strachan - close the door on your way out
I've said it a million times and I'll say it again. It's a myth that Champions win games in the last minutes. Champions win games out of sight long before the last minute.
I've said it already that I believe the huns will win the league. I seen them at Tynecastle and they are very organized although pretty rubbish.
I said that we needed them to drop 2 points outside the 3 games we have with them before we could win the league. Now that is 4 pts and while not impossible i'm not convinced that we could do enough if there was only a 2 pt gap going into the games against them.
You've got to really fancy the huns to beat us at Ibrox.
Paul you are right there is no shape. And there never has been. There is no movement, no training ground moves, no motivated players. He cannot motivate players and he cannot get a team together after three years in charge and the best wage budget in the SPL.
If this was year 1 or even the first few months of year 2 then you could just about excuse it but nearing the end of year 3 is unacceptable.
Out of his depth.
I'm raging. I'm listening to rebels - full blast. And have left the report I'm meant to be doing for my boss (will have to do it tomorrow) as I cannot work with rage and disappointment.
I'm nearly crying and I am hurting badly. I fear it is the realisation that we won't win the league and I find it unacceptable.
Hope I'm wrong. I pray I'm wrong
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Its a poor team that has been riding its luck to get any sort of results in the last 4 months minimum.
I think its a fair point about the problem in the midfield. Its clear that the manager has no more clue than us who should be playing there.
But midfield is only the tip of the iceberg. Central defence lacks any real leadership. Notwithstanding injuries the performance of the fullbacks has been variable.
I was astounded when, with McDonald clearly having an off night, Strachan elects to take Samaras off to make way for JVOH. We lost any mobility we had at that point and no one up front was capable of holding the ball. Poor, poor decision.
I also agree with the comment that when we did break free and go for them they were rattled temporarily. But this doesn't happen often enough. We are formulaic, predictable and lack any drive for the bulk of most games we play.
I still hope we can come back from this but think the structural issues are so deep that it will have to be a little bit of magic that does it for us.
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These lacklustre opening 45 mins of home matches recently were going to catch up with us eventually and tonight was the night.
No urgency, no tempo and before you know it the first 45 mins have been and gone with barely a shot on target and suddenly we're chasing the game.
Can someone please explain two things to me?
1) Why was Samaras taken off when it was clear to see he was offering, by and large, a more attacking threat than McDonald. On the subject of McDonald is it just me or is he getting caught more and more offside with each passing match? His sharpness has tailed off markedly in recent games. Mentally jaded perhaps? In need of a rest?
2) Why wasn't our third substitution made use of? McGeady was out of sorts. Is there any point in having Riordan on the bench if Strachan has no intention whatsoever of playing him?
I'm gutted about tonight. Hopefully we can recover from this but it feels like a kick in the stones.
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We threw plenty of balls into the box but only managed a couple of half chances and one clear chance , the JVOH header.
I would have estimated a crowd around 40,000 but the atmosphere was not great.
Too many teams make a cavalry charge at the start and at the end but play controlled slow football for the central 80 minutes. We were guilty of that tonight. We expect our fitness and fighting spirit to get us through. On many occasions it has. Tonight it did not.
Still can't believe JVOH missed that header at the end. From behind that goal it looked like a free header. On TV it looked like he was challenged but I think he got his header away before the challenge affected it.
Anyway it is to be expected that some of our more lily-livered, Rangers praising fans will have given the league up now. I am positive they will drop points to teams other than us in the run-in as suspensions, injuries, fears and match weariness kick in.
As a final note, Rev. McCurry was very lenient on persistent fouling and time wasting tonight. He penalised us for quickly taken free kicks and let united away with this on 2 occasions. He contrived to waste a significant portion of the 90 minutes and the 4 minutes extra by taking an inordinate amount of time over entries into his black book. Presumably, he needed extra time to write out his invoices to Lord Murray of Mintyland.
I also assume his church is not planning any ecumenical initiatives any time soon.
Off to bed in a sour mood but I'll be back smiling and cheering us on at Fir Park on Saturday. The team should wear wellies with long studs.
The Champions are still standing.
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Maybe it's time to consider a back three in these kind of games.
Neither Hinkel nor Naylor had a winger facing them tonight. Hinkel exploited it early on by overlapping Nakamura.
Or even three up front, with McDonald, JVOG and Samaras?
'GG
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Paul 67,
Barry Robson is not the answer.
At Parkhead, against teams like Dundee Utd, five in midfield with Nakamura in a free role behind two strikers is surely the way to go?
Tonight was worrying for me on several fronts, (in addition to the 11 men wearing our beloved hoops). It was a massive game in terms of the league championship, and only 35,000 (approx) could be bothered to turn up.
The pubs in the east end were dead.
A few of those people in the pubs that I spoke to were pessamistic of our chances of retaining our title, and after that performance those who weren't pessamistic, myself included, will be reassessing our opinions.
Worrying times indeeed.
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I've always been convinced that Brown will be a great player but I'm struggling to see it now. He struggles with the very basics of the game in touch and passing.
I don't know if it's too early in the summer but tonight I would take any bid that gave us a profit on him, but I'm very disappointed about tonight and this may be clouding my judgement!
Another thing that disappointed me was the attendance. I would have said 40,000 tops were there. I know it was relatively hastily arranged but come one, we are in the middle of a tight league campaign and in themiddle of a long run of away matches. You would have thought at least on that basis people would have been chomping at the bit to see a match.
The decision to sub Samaras was baffling. MacDonald was having a nightmare and offered nothing. The other thing that was baffling was why no use of the third sub. Even in the last 10 mins or so we could have gambled, say sacrifice Naylor for Riordan and go 3 up. I would have gambled the one point to try and win 3, united were offering little in an attacking sense anyway.
We really should have buried that mob this year good and proper. Instead we are offering them a golden chance to wriggle off the hook. That will be the most disappointing thing for me if we lose this league to that mob.
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only 35,000 there tonight
A question for Mr Lawwell
If you follow up your statement of not sacking Strachan if we lose the league then attendances will hit rock bottom.
Then the financial problems will hit in because the 20000 or so who will go will know that they will not need to buy a season ticket to gain entry. The domino effect will be unstopable.
I said after Artmedia that we should have sacked Strachan. Wrong decision that should have remedied quickly after.
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Glen Daly,
worrying indeed. More worrying for the Board. Just how do you sell season tickets for next year ? Its a vicious circle - the crowds are dwindling because the football is less than inspiring, the apathy of the crowd surely affects the players.
I was a reformed mineshafter after the New Year advocating that we stand and fall together and we will not give up until we win the cup ! But can I let you into a wee secret ? I do think we've squandered the championship. Nights like tonight only serve to bolster the hun's confidence. Someone said earlier that there were still many points to be droppes between now and the end of the season. The only thing is imho, it is likely to be us who do the dropping.
As to the reasons why ? The shape of the team is certainly one of them. But personnel is the biggest factor. We have a captain who does not lead. We have a £4m midfielder who quite simply does not know what he's supposed to be doing. And it is those two players who illustrate perfectly why we are unlikely to win the league.
We're slipping towards a very disappointing season - and before anyone starts, I say this here, not on some radio phone-in.It won't stop me publically stating that we will the league.
Quite what this means for the future revenues of the club, others are in a better position to predict. But I can foresee falling season ticket sales and empty seats becoming more prevalent.
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Paul - I think you're being a bit harsh on the team for tonight's performance. At times they played great football in pretty poor conditions and some fantastic moves came off, only for the final pass or shot to go astray. I think we dominated more than your report suggests and we were really, really unlucky not to score.
We didn't have enough players at or near their best tonight, but Tonybhoy, you're wrong to say they players weren't motivated. They were and they tried hard - maybe too hard. The stats don't reflect the amount of chances we had, but sometimes you don't get the luck. We hit the post twice and there were three or four 'stramashes' where I still don't know how the ball didn't end up in the net.
We're all hurting and we're all worried, but how a Celtic fan can say "You've really got to fancy the huns to beat us at Ibrox", is beyond me. And btw just because you repeat things, it doesn't make them true.
Of course we might not win the league - there's a reason why 3 in a row hasn't been done very often - but can we not concede it just yet, especially with 3 games against them to play?
By the way, 31003 from earlier thread (tried to post, but lost it) about McCurry. Tonight he was all over the place (which is an improvement!) but gave some pretty dodgy decisions against us. Their spoiling tactics deserved more than 22 fouls and a lot more than two bookings, for a start. Some bizarre decisions, although hard to tell on the night which ones were wrong - I'll reserve judgement on some of them till I see the game on the box.
The most bizarre decision was when he blew for a United free kick in their half. Celtic players stopped, United carried on, went up the park and nearly scored, except got flagged offside. You can't play advantage AFTER you've blown the whistle for a free kick!! At best (and I'm being really generous here) he's incompetent and inconsistent....
Lets hope United defend as well and create a lot more chances on Sunday. And THEY're bound to drop a couple of points here and there....
downnotout CSC
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Psychology is a Huge Part of the Game to Me.....as is reading between the lines of some posters....
I posted at the end of the last thread and said I would wait for a new one...
To amplify my thoughts..
'GG knows what I mean....
I also said earlier our problem was Ambivalence.... Fascinating word that 'ambivalence'...
Most people think it means not caring one way or the other... Nah... Quite the opposite in fact.
I watched the game and saw some lovely football.. Saw us hit the post twice...Then watched us retreat from a seige.... And got frustrated at the lack of attack when crosses sailed to the back unchallenged...
Later....
I heard GS hit the 'ambivalent' nail on the head when in his interview he used the word...'panicked'...
My view was the youngsters wanted it too much....(Strange as that may sound)
They were too hyper... Too tense....
Particularly in the first 20 mins of the first half...
Their tension then grew exponentialy.
No 50-50 balls fell Celtics way ....
Why? Nae composure.
Family site I know, but they were fumbling like virgins in anticipation...
Less haste better delivery Bhoys....
Kick in the nuts...No doubt...
But its still in our hands...
The Title that is..
We can still be ahead on St Patricks day...
And kick on from there.
And Kick We Wil Have To....
Now the landscape has changed....
As has my opinion...
Bobo may be required.. Never said that before.
This is where the Gaffer earns his money..
Glad its no me.
PS.
There are a few posters on here who are also a tad too ambivalent I suspect....
PPS
Levein will take Walter.
KTF
& Do The Angels Work.
Roll On The Angels...I am off for a St Pat's rehearsal in the local...
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sftb - You're post is spot on. I didn't see it earlier - been trying to post since I got back from the game about 90 mins ago!
Blogger GG - Did I imagine it, or did we not move to three at the back near the end of the game? (genuine question - it's hard to tell sometimes when you're at the game)
porridgeandbananas - I agree the Samaras substitution was baffling. And yet we did have a good 'wave after wave' period (reference to MON, not THG!) for the last 15-20 mins and we really should have won it.
Tonybhoy - you would have sacked our manager after 1 competitive game? Maybe he should be grateful you gave him a whole 90 minutes.....
screwthenut CSC
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Sorry...
Meant to say first twentty minutes of the second half...No first....that looked fine...
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How wonderful it feels to have closed the gap...
Perhaps the only positive to take from tonight but seemingly overlooked by many as usual.
3 points is always the aim, naturally. But when things don't work out and only 1 is obtained, at the end of the day its 1 more than we had yesterday. I would have loved 3 points tonight, especially considering the high probability of the gap being closed tomorrow due to Gretna's demise.
If Gretna go out of business tomorrow there are realistically 2 options for the SPL to consider in terms of points...
1. All points gained against Gretna this season will be made void.
The result - Celtic and Rangers equal on points at the top of the SPL due to the fact Rangers will lose 9 points and Celtic will be deducted 6.
2. All remaining games with Gretna will be classed as victories (with a score line of 3-0 I believe.)
The result - Celtic and Rangers equal on points at the top of the SPL due to the fact Celtic will be awarded 3 points and Rangers allocated 0 points.
Either way we are equal at the top.
I will also point out to show that I'm not selective in my use of facts much like the resident mine-shafters - Rangers currently have a game in hand, but they need to win it to go further ahead, with football, nothing is a 'given'.
That might not mean much to a mine-shafter but to a SUPPORTer it means keeping the faith.
Few points about the game tonight...
We had chances, we didn't take them - its as simple as that.
Not enough SUPPORTers turned up, thats to be expected though, it was cold and wet and we weren't playing a European game...greatest fans in the world or are we only interested in the big boy games?
Sadly a large section of the fans that did show up only did so to berate Evander Sno and Gary Caldwell at any opportunity. I would have to say that Scott McDonald and Shunsuke Nakamura were the most disappointing tonight. In terms of the roles each player has - GC did his fine - we didn't concede. ES wasn't outstanding like he was at Aberdeen, but he moved the ball around from the middle and did a job.
SMcD is a striker - his job is to score. He failed to do his job tonight. He also committed a pathetic dive instead of trying to score or win a corner. I'm not interested in previous form, I'm well aware of his achievements, tonight he failed in his task.
SN is a play-maker, his main role is to set up goals. He failed to do his job tonight. Recently he has seemed uninterested and lacking his killer control/cross/general magic. Again I'm more than aware of his previous achievements but tonight he was poor.
I can accept players have off days but I expect a lot more from International class stars when playing against poor opposition.
So why is it that players who do their job just fine on the night get booed and jeered but players who fail to do their job get praised/ommited from critical analysis. I think we need to be a bit more balanced in our appraisals. And that means no-one should be getting booed as that will ever help someone improve, it'll only help them decide to walk out the door.
To round off the evening, the majority of those that stayed to the end (not many) booed the players off the pitch.
A great boost for the players in the lead up to the Motherwell game...
Too many Celtic fans are in it for the glory. If it isn't happening then the boos start and the season tickets get sent back.
Or we have to listen to the usual 'I don't like Gordon Strachan/Evander Sno/Gary Caldwell so I hope they fail to prove me right, even at the expense of the team.'
Instead of 'I don't like Gordon Strachan but I'll put it to the back of my mind because as long as Celtic are progressing and achieving then thats all that matters.'
What matters to you?
Hail Hail
It's not over till its over.
Jonathan88
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Jonathan88
Agree pretty much with most of your points, however i think most of the boo-ing at the end was directed at Satan's Little Helper McCurry.
GAWF
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Tomdickfoolery -
I don't think that was the case. The final whistle was blown and was immediately followed by a chorus of boos. Usually if it's for him in the black it would coincide with him getting to the tunnel so 'he' knows he's getting the boos. Didn't seem like that tonight.
And if it was then we're barking up the wrong tree. McCurry wasn't to blame for the loss of 2 points tonight.
Agree with Jonathan88's points on the match. Midweek attendances since before christmas have been alarmingly poor at times.
I thought naka did ok but never sparkled as we've seen so often in the past. In a match like tonight, we needed more than ok from our players who can produce that moment of magic but none was forthcoming.
I thought Hinkel was our best player tonight.
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sftb - meant to say 'your post is spot on'. It's past my bedtime - I'll get my PJs.
Speaking of which - pjbhoynyc - excellent post.
jonathan88 - same goes, except I think you're being a bit unfair on Shunsuke, but I agree entirely about McDonald - it looked like a dive to me and if it was, it was criminal, because he still had control of the ball and could easily cut it back into the goalmouth.
Tomdickfoolery - you might be right, but I think Chris Sutton's Slippers is nearer the mark. I thought Gordon was being more generous with the support tonight than we are with him.
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We've just given this extremely mediocre huns side all the breathing space and inspiration they could need to go on and finish us off at the end of the month when we meet at Ibrox by failing to capitalise on a massive opportunity for us in the title race tonight.
There are far too many mediocre players playing for Celtic at the moment who simply aren't up to the job. Speaking of which, Strachan should carry the can for wasting millions on most of them.
Hopefully the rumours about Tony Mowbray arriving in the summer have something to them...
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Is that the same Tony Mowbray that didn't get his team to cross the half way line on Black Sunday after they went 1-0 down!!!!!! Thanks but no thanks to him ever being Celtic manager!!
If rumours are true and GS is going to step down given his track record of not handling pressure then Mark Hughes would be my choice??
Seeing uncle Fester is not getting a game for Everton we could do no worse than get him back in the team given the mediocre performances by others who have taken his spot. Sad but true he was given less time and patience lost than those playing there now!
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Mowbray was looking after number 1 that day, which he's entitled to do. We only had ourselves to blame for losing the league.
It sums up how dire we are just now that people are wanting one of Strachan's many expensive duds to come back to try and improve things, this time in the case of Gravesen.
I noticed the ground was barely half full tonight, and if Strachan is allowed to continue to imprint his method of mediocrity on the club then i think the board better get used to the sight.
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True about it being our fault but not trying to equalise?????
True on Gravesen also but think I would rather have him than some of the others playing there right now!!
Strachans luck is eventually going to run out??
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my assessment;
For the first time , i think the manager got it wrong tonight from kick-off and is more guilty of not changing our shape sooner.
He should have gone with JVOH and Samaras and dropped a jaded and huffy Mcdonald (no room for negativity at this stage from skippy - his constant complaining perpetuates un-intelligent and sometimes selfish play from him)
Midfield - I get the impresson Brown is too wrapped up in the stats - ie how many miles can i cover in a game. He is not playing inteligent measured football and has lost his touch of late.
The midfield should read - Naka (free role), Hartley, robson/donati and Mcgeady.
McGeady also looked tired - he was trying to carry the team tonight - way too much responsablity on his young shoulders over the long season.
defense did a good job but i would rather have Bobo in there - not that he's better than the rest but purely because he fill the team with confidence and belief.
Where was our captan tonight - who was drivng the team? Where was the Roy Aitken type character to at least thrash those givng the ball away cheaply? many of us have said sinc ethe season start that we needed steele - i fear now we are too weak and worse, we are showing it - preferng to have a nice game to watch.
I hope i'm not over-reactng - but this is just not good enough. we played like Dundee United for too long then decided to get anxious.
we are predictable and need to get creative FAST.
Pressure on Saturday - forget football on that pitch and get tough celtic!
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The manager never, ever, ever changes the shape of the team!! 3 at the back, nope, 3 up front, nope yeah lets continue with 4 at the back when the other team plays 1 up front!!!!! The league is slipping away and he carries the can for it. Hes been a lucky man and now his luck is beginning to run out!! Just as well he got some last Sunday or he'd be under a lot of pressure tonight!
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Tonybhoy (00:23)
not sure if anyone has made this point about your point, but you state "...It's a myth that Champions win games in the last minutes. Champions win games out of sight long before the last minute."
Not trying to be controversial or pick at an open wound, but that's rubbish!!
CHAMPIONS WIN MATCHES!! Irrespective of last minute, first minute or 45th minute, they score. Unfortunately we haven't been able to do this tonight.
Keep the faith, brother. You know it's worth it.
Hail Hail,
G.
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My grand daughter, 18 months, took me to the circus at the weekend.
It was a great day out.
The acts were fabulous and top drawer.
The production and continuity were faultless.
The high wire trapeze act was breathtaking.
The motor bikes revolving at top speed inside a cage was scary.
The strong man and contortionist acts were accomplished but left me indifferent.
The clowns had the kids of all ages rolling in the aisles and joining in enthusiastically.
The animals, horses, dogs, tigers and elephants were fascinating.
The rings were consistently busy and the audience was fully engaged and google eyed for the complete show.
One thing I witnessed though.
It matters not a jot how well prepared you are.
How much practice you put in.
How well you time your feeding and appearances.
You can never stop an elephant from doing what it does when it feels like it.
S**t happens.
Apologies in advance Paul.
'GG
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First of all, I have never been a critic of Strachan just for the sake of it. I have supported him from day one and believe he has done a great job up till now.
However, if Celtic lose the SPL title, I believe he will resign at the end of the season. If he doesn’t, I think he should be moved on. I say this for no other reason than that the club is stagnating – partly Gordon’s fault and partly the team’s fault. Regardless, I firmly believe that if we can pull a rabbit out of the hat and actually win the SPL title, the club could very well go from strength to strength under Strachan, but if we lose out to them, then the club will need a new face and a fresh impetus in the dressing room, because I don’t think Gordon will be able to recover the situation. Not because he is a bad manager, but purely and simply because the whole club and its support will be on a downer and the players will be under enormous pressure.
As I said, I firmly believe Gordon Strachan will resign if we lose out. If he doesn’t I will want him sacked.
On last night’s match, football can be a funny game right enough. If Nakamura’s shot early on had gone in instead of hitting the post, we would have won at a canter.
Like Porridgeandbananas, I have lost patience with Scott Brown. If EPL clubs come in this Summer with silly money, I say punt him to the highest bidder. Scott is actually a liability in a Celtic jersey. His passing is dire and his discipline is appalling. Last night, in the dying minutes as we were chasing an equaliser, he gave away a needless free-kick and then got himself another yellow card for backchat, wasting even more time into the bargain..
Like all Celtic fans posting here, I am gutted. Absolutely gutted.
I have not given up on the SPL title just yet, but if we lose at Ibrox it is all over bar the shouting. 7 points from the 3 big games should be enough, and I truly believe that they will drop points to other clubs on the way.
Fingers crossed.
Hail Hail.
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neil lennon, paul lambert, roy aitken, danny mcgrain, billy mcneill,paul mcstay.....thats the standards that i want for a celtic captain.....great players in their own position, leaders by example and will to win...
...we have a captain who isn't even good enough to be an automatic first choice for his position and who shows no leadership qualities whatsoever...
the manager made a rod for his own back with this appointment....the most difficult personnel decision in football is to drop your captain...you can't jut do it for a couple of games and then reappoint him....we may still win the league, but that won't change the flawed decision to appoint the wrong captain.....
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Have to agree with Ignatius re Scott Brown being a liability. Tonight summed that up for sure, with the injury time booking for mouthing. The thing is though, do you think any EPL team would come in for him after watching him this season? I for one thought he was a great signing at the time, and still hope he turns out to be, but I am none too confident now. He did cost us an awful lot of money.
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I tried to post a few times to after the game – nae luck.
We shot ourselves in the foot last night. I only saw a wee bit near the end, and we were pressuring nearly all the time, and carved out a few chances. It’s so difficult to score being under constant pressure to score. It didn’t work out.
It still boils down to the Fod games; win these and we’re champs again.
We gave the Fod the initiative, but not the league.
If the best team in Scotland, and that’s us, can’t win a game of football by a couple of goals, then our problem is indeed psychological, and we have to ease that pressure by winning the next game. And therein lies a problem.
Hail Hail
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Yet again we see that something is wrong with the team.
Why do we play like a group of 11 strangers? We are not a team with a gameplan.
Too often we look as though we are waiting on one of our better players to do something special to win a game.
We have better palyers than any other team in the SPL.Why do we not show it?
GS once said tactict don't win matches players do.
If he really meant this he should be running a pub team.
Going to the game last night my pal commented on GS comments regarding a last game of the season decider.
A complete stranger piped up saying that it was that type of arrogance that has caused us so many problems this season.
The pressure is now on the Motherwell game. I hope GS bites the bullet and drops Naka.
He has produced nothing recently in the away games other than set piece deliver and we aren't good enough to have non contributers in the middle.
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Very down this morning guys - terrible effort last night. Thought Brown was shocking. I'm beginning to think the league is gone - we have no fight, no centre halfs that can jump and too many passengers.
keep they razor blades out my reach.
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St Gris
White men cant jump
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Not sure i agree with the guys saying we should start with a back 3, we would need 3 centre halves to do that and we dont have them.
Couldnt start a game with either Naylor or Hinkel in a reduced in volume defence!
But 1 thing i do agree with, and which baffles me, is we NEVER go 3 up top.
Personally I believe we could be able to go with 3 up top in most domestic home games.
It shouldnt be a problem.
Im sure every single person on here would also believe, that if things arent going to plan in a game like last night, then you bring on a 3rd striker, you dont take 1 striker off for another, you try and alter the pattern on the game, not stick with the same tried and tested formation.
Teams will be set up, and instructed from the days before in how each individual should play, who he marks, where he needs to be with and without the ball.
We change our shape, and go with 3 up top, 2 of whom like running the channels and 1 likes being in the middle ANYWAY...
All of a sudden the opposition are looking to bench to see what changes need to happen, where their new responsibilities lie..
This is a regime where we very very rarely go for the jugular, finish teams off early and punish them and go for 4, then 5 then 6
(aberdeen at pittodrie was a rarity, not so long ago it was almost the norm)
Why do we start with a low tempo?
Therefore giving the opposition confidence, and if you know the crowd will start to get edgy and this tansfers to the players (i dont agree with us for doing that, but WGS has commented about it often enough)
Why not go for it, hammer them at a fast pace before they even know the game has started?
If we lose a goal, there is plenty of time to make up for it, but surely with the supposed quality difference, more often than not we would prosper??
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I have consistently said that WGS deserves to be cut some slack on the basis of what he achieved in his first 2 seasons regardless of the quality of the opposition.
HOWEVER if he seriously believes that Evander Sno is worthy of a first team spot at Celtic Park then he is seriously deluded and creating a huge rod for his own back.
The vast majority of Celtic fans, myself included, believe that he is simply not good enough and will not be convinced otherwise.
I was at the match last night and despite the huffing and puffing their keeper had an easy night.
The optimist in me says that mathematically we can still win the league however it is a sure sign that you are struggling when you resort to using that phrase.
The realist in me says that we are simply not good enough to win the number of points necessary to do so.
I fear our season is ending 'not with a bang but a whisper' and that defeat to them in the matches to come and ultimately the league is on the cards (anyone out there really believe we will get something at Ibrox?)
Frank
PS Bad news for the conspiracy theorists looking for an excuse to hide our shortcomings - don't blame McCurry last night. He could have booked Brown a lot earlier and added on 4 minutes at the end. Nothing close to a controversial decision in the match.
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I meant to add that if I take one one thing from last night's sorry match it the performance of Andreas Hinkel who seems to be improving game by game. Pity we didn't have him at the start of the season.
Frank
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Well at least Inthedark will be a happy bhoy?
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imo far too many of our 'supporters' these days are just glory hunters,
last night we couldn't break down a stubborn defence who came for a draw,
build a bridge, that can happen to any team at anytime in football,
speculating about what players are duds and the manager walking, that’s really helpful,
now is not the time, lets keep the post mortems for when its all over, which it isn't.
right now we'd all be better off supporting the team, not going off on a find the guilty and hang em high campaign,
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x/frank
re Evander Sno,
You said...
"...if he seriously believes that Evander Sno is worthy of a first team spot at Celtic Park then he is seriously deluded and creating a huge rod for his own back."
Evander Sno played very well against Barcelona considering he is (in your opinion) such a poor player, he also had a brilliant game against Aberdeen, and in my opinion shouldn't have been subbed. I think due to these two great performances he was awarded another start, on self-merit. And who are we to take that away from a player. If a player deserves a game they get a game. To add to this, players have to be producing something in training as well as playing well. I would take from the Evander situation that as well as playing particularly well in his last two games he has performed very well in training.
Last night wasn't his best game but certainly not a poor performance. He did a good job.
So I'm not sure how that constitutes the creation of a huge rod for Gordon's back...
You also said...
"The vast majority of Celtic fans, myself included, believe that he is simply not good enough and will not be convinced otherwise."
Firstly, Evander is still very young (younger than Aiden) and before arriving at Celtic didn't have much in the way of first team experience or even high level experience. So to expect the experience/refined talents of a 25-30 year old midfielder from him is just plain silly. He needs to be allowed to grow as a player and if we as a support aren't even interested in encouraging him, what chance does he have. The Celtic SUPPORT actually go out their way to boo him and beg for him to fail. Crazy.
Secondly, I'm glad I am in the perceived minority of those who think Evander is a very promising player. It's always better to back an underdog don't you think? And that can be related to our team's current situation as THE UNDERDOG...
Thirdly, You have laid your cards on the table, Evander Sno will NEVER convince you that he is good enough to wear the green and white hoops...
I put it to you - what will you say/think/do if Evander Sno scores the goal that wins us 3 In A Row in May?
Will you be happy or sad?
I'll be doubly happy but I have a feeling you and all the rest of the Evander Sno haters will be suffering from (in your own opinion) tainted joy.
What a wonderfully mixed SUPPORT we are.
Hail Hail
Jonathan88
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One for the Ghirls
It will be interesting to see which balloon Stephen launches.
Therags...
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x said:
HOWEVER if he seriously believes that Evander Sno is worthy of a first team spot at Celtic Park then he is seriously deluded and creating a huge rod for his own back.
The vast majority of Celtic fans, myself included, believe that he is simply not good enough and will not be convinced otherwise.
Did you take a poll to ascertain this claim???
I, for one certainly think Sno is good enough and given more games could be a great player for Celtic.
I remember a couple of years ago, particular after Artmedia many people were saying the same about Aiden.
Keep you head up Evander, some of us still love ya.
Hail Hail
Mort
Johnathan88 @ 01.14
Spot on.
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Jonathan88 @ 09.04
Just noticed your support for Sno too. Great minds think alike :-)
Apologies about the wrong spelling of your name in my previous post.
Mort
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In case any of you bhoys have been disturbed by that whiff of oestrogen, you can find solace
Here,
Here and
Here
Therags...
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The destiny of the title is in our own hands. Surely that is not an intolerable situation? Certainly not one which warrants calls for the sacking of the manager and selling of players. I expect that kind of talk from the Laptop , not here.We need to be behind our team at the moment and lift confidence with positive talk and not all this reactionary negative stuff.
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Mort,
No worries!
Glad to see we make up a majority... more Evander supporters than detractors on this thread so far!
Jonathan88
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Heres how to try and win the league.
Our midfield from now till the season ends should be -
Hartley
Robson
McGeady
Nakamura (dropped for the huns game)
Brown for the huns game only.
any other midfield starts - you can expect second place.
Oh and another thing - Samaras should be first pick striker - his work rate is great, touch great and he can score.
Want a change up front - take McDonald off - he gets too greedy as the game goes on.
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Very disappointing result.
But that’s all it is.
Games like last night have happened MANY times before, during the reigns of many mangers and many teams, and will happen MANY more times in the future. It’s NOT the end of the world for Pete’s sake!
I hate to say this, but I’m getting pretty disillusioned. Not by the team, the manager, or the board, but by the fans (represented by some of the posters on here). I’m not saying this to start any sort of “cyber square-go”. It’s just how I feel.
This idea that we should beat anyone and everyone we come up against, and the resulting FURY that erupts when we don’t, is exactly the type of “supremacy” mentality that I despise about our South-side neighbors and their “support”.
We might still win the league. We might not.
Celtic FC will still be there next year, and so will I, no matter who wins the league OR who our manager is.
Maybe it’s time for a new club anthem, because we apparently DO care if we win lose or draw.
As I said, I’m not looking to start a barny. Just feeling a bit disappointed.
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jonathan88
I think you are being slightly misleading with regards to Gretna as if it is some advantage to us in the points scenario. Yes we will get 3pts for it but Rangers will have a further game in hand. For all those struggling to get their head round the Gretna scenario here is a way of thinking about it.
If they go out of business today then it will be deemed as if we played them this afternoon and won the game, (something we should do anyway when we play them), so no real advantage points wise other than a) saving us playing the game and potentially dropping points, and b) the psychologically benefit of getting the points now instead of when we are due to play them. If you take out the 3 games between us and assume that we win all our remaining games and the huns win theirs then they would still be 6pts clear of us so no benefit.
It's easy to understand if you actually think of it.
georgiebhoy
It is a myth. I understand what you are saying and the fact we didn't win a game but my point is that it was coming. My point is that it is said that winning games in the last minute is the sign of Champions and I disagree. The sign of Champions is winning games well before the last minute. There is a difference and if you cannot see it then you are falling into the trap of believing the myth of playing poorly but still winning games is the sign of Champions because it is rubbish. Champions more often than not don't play poorly. It is a myth. I'll produce stats later to back this up if you still don't understand.
Barcabhoy
I disagree with you regading picking the wrong captain being the problem. I agree that McManus is not a captain and all the points to describe him are accurate. However it was one of a few limited choices Strachan had. Therein lies the real problem. Not that he pick a poor captain in McManus but the fact he has signed such a bunch of losers that he has no-one to choose from. MONs team had loads of captains - Lennon, Lambert, Keane, Thompson, Sutton, Mjallby etc
I think he made a mistake last night starting with Samaras as we needed his impact from the bench however those sort of things I can forgive because I can understand why he did it and if he didn't and we didn't win some would be saying why didn't we start with Samaras. My problem is that the team has no shape at all and no tactics or movement off the ball. Rangers are a very very poor team with a great shape.
tonybhoy
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tonybhoy
Gordon Strachan signed Roy Keane.
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Bhoys did not adhere to The Two Goals Tactic, no margin for error now, every point's a prisoner.
We're going to a very unlucky venue on Saturday, blood and snottersville.
Time for sleeves up when the chips are down.
VENCEREMOS
WG
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Well said Jonathan88!
I honestly cannot believe some of the criticism coming WGS's way. I wonder how many on here will still be calling for his head if the Huns lose or draw there game in hand? Then the gap may not change or at worst be back to 4 points! Keep-the-faith ghuys and ghirls!
Paul67, Can I quote you as saying "I expect Bobo to return to the team" or something along those lines? If so then do you think he will be given the odd game or 2 to gain some match fitness? Also how confident are you of picking up the points against Rangers? I say points as there are a few variables.
TOLHWER
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Tonybhoy,
I completely missed the fact that Rangers would indeed have another game in hand.
My point still stands though as we will have a guaranteed 3 points, Rangers will still have to play and win to gain there's.
As I said before, nothing is a 'given' in football.
Hail Hail
Jonathan88
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I just want to further clarify my point on games played/points won etc
If they had 34 games in hand they would still need to gain more points than we had amassed.
It doesn't matter how many games they have in hand, unless they win them, games in hand are worthless.
Jonathan88
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Paul67,
I would have to say that poor passing is only a result of a poor attitute. All of the players on tha park last night are more than capacble of passing a ball with accuracy and technique - this is why they are paid several thousand pounds per week.
They were not passing well due to the fact their attitude was not correct. The menality of the team was not of the required state - every game is a cup final!
10 games to go and we still don't know our best 11 - can we have any complaints if we lose this league.
Agree on Robson - he was arguably the best player in the SPL before we bought him.
One final point - WE WERE BADLY LACKING EXPERIENCE IN THE TEAM LAST NIGHT! This was a really bad judgement call.
Sno, Brown, McGeady, Samaras, McDonald all under 25. A cool head in the midfield was badly missing.
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Well , not the result we wanted.
Admittedly I only listened to Radio Shortbread but in the second half the crowd sounded great- I think it's harsh to blame the crowd for their shortcomings.
I also think that midweek attendances can drop because a large part of our support comes from the 9 counties, and with the ferries being cancelled yesterday how were they meant to get to CP? Walk?
We had a chance to put some pressure onthem before Christmas, and blew it. We're blowing it again. El Cardo may have Nediatric tendencies but he's winning the contest between himself and the Ginger Helmsman, no question.
Anyways, I know it's not a usual source of common sense and perspective but I saw a letter in the Daily Record yesterday where a Celtic supporter wrote to say he'd rather we won nothing this year and Tommy Burns not have had a relapse of his cancer. The writer of that letter deserves a lot of credit.
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Today is the second anniversary of the death of the 'Greatest Ever Celt'
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On the way back from the game last night someone sent me a text,the phrase used also appeared on last nights post match postings from PJBhoynyc,Jonothan88 and georgiebhoy if anyone else used it i apologise for not including you.
I'll come back to the phrase.
Evander Sno has had two good back to back performances away from home last night he was poor.
Coincidence that the game was at Celtic park ?I would like to see him make it but i doubt if he will.
Aiden responded to the moans and groans and became a better player,will Sno ?
Before last nights game to a man we would have said we needed to win our two games at Celtic park against Rangers to win the league.
Whats changed ?
The phrase so easily overlooked, sometimes forgotten ..........
Keep The Faith.
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I didn’t see the game last night and therefore I won’t comment on the quality of opposition, of our team, or of any individual performance. Even the referee, my favourite donkey - besides the media - escapes praise or criticism.
Wee Gordon, well wee Gordon is surely going to live or die by his results. Correct me if I’m wrong, but has anybody actually presented Rangers with our flag yet. Have Rangers yet accrued the required number of points?
Is the nouveau language of the internet Celtic Supporter French all of a sudden? My whole life, Dundee United have come to Parkhead to spoil; and over decades they have perfected the art. So what is so different about it now? They took away two points from a nothing each result. They might just have earned it. They might even have merited more.
Did the loss of those two points hand the title to Rangers. Don’t be freekin dense. Rangers are top of the league for one reason only. They have accrued more points than us.
But all is there to be played for, and yet the weak ones amongst us have already abandoned our cause. Your publicly written, apostolic capitulation, would do the French elite forces proud. You’d run before the bleedin fight has even begun.
And in your ‘Rabbit in the Headlights brown confusion’ rather than resort to encouragement, of your purported club - you belittle Celtic the Club, you belittle Celtic the Support, most of all you pitiful invertebrates, you belittle yourself. I hope you live long enough to boast your grandchildren the night you booed your Celtic. And then I hope your eyesight and memory stretches that sad yard so you can look yourself in the eye. Then I hope your memory is cute enough to recall the day you messed yourself before the fight had even began.
Your written words speak volumes. The fight has not even begun and you have all but thrown in the towel. With an attitude like that you’d’ be a freekin French Field Marshal before this year is out.
If you’re going to crusade to have a successful Celtic manager turfed out on his ear -nice that, really nice - then at least have the decency to wait and see whether he achieves history or not. And if he does go, for your sake, I hope that we get somebody better because if we don’t – what life you?
To any Rangers supporters reading – “can you hear the fat girl sing?”
To any media slags reading – before you dance on this Tims grave, you’ll have to put him under. This one, for one, is still standing.
For some of my ‘Brothers in Celtic’, I’d love to boast the same but their own words would shame me.
To whatever Nirvana they seek I wish them my good Gods speed and protection. Don’t want your feelings hurt on the way to ‘never neverland’ now would we.
Support – it really is a basic concept – or are you one of those I hear so much about – you only sing when we’re winning?
Are you the one that they are singing about?
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Hail, Hail.
Everybody should be standing up.
This is the time to be counted, fans and players.
Nothing is lost yet and will not be.
STANDING UP FOR THE CHAMPIONS
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