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dbbia:
I know like all of us you’re disappointed but just on more point:
If we are as you said nothing more than a EUFA Cup level team, does that mean we might as well get the spliffs out for second place in our domestic league and let Rangers have our shot at glory.
We must aspire to win our league and with it goes qualification to the CL.
We then have to give it our best shot accepting that we are never going to be favourites.
We’ve got to give it a go and enjoy all that we can. Either that or, here you go Rangers, we’re just not good enough.
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Podium?
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I agree that the co-efficient calculator is ridiculous and should be changed. The point sysytem should reflect the quality of tie and opposition.
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"nothing more than a EUFA Cup level team"
What a load of nonsense, if anything we are a last 16 Champions League team.
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Stoir- nay, nay and thrice nay!
I don't want them to win anything ever again. I want them to be reduced to begging in the streets; I want the Death Star converted for landfill.
I want us to win every piece of silverwear we can, and might get more pleasure from seeing us give a good account of ourselves in the UEFA Cup than looking completely out of our depth in the ECL.
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Leo Messi is out for six weeks.
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Aw, diddums, what a shame for Rangers... it must be a conspiracy!
I seem to recall Celtic having to run out at Hampden Park to take on Rangers in the 2003 League Cup Final, just over 65½ hours after completing their UEFA Cup quarter final first leg against Liverpool.
On the coeff points debate, I think as long as the system is as it is now, we should perhaps aspire to competing in the Champions League group stage every season, and dropping into the UEFA Cup by finishing 3rd, even if we have to contrive a result to ensure that eventuality.
We would almost certainly earn more coeff points from even one round of the UEFA Cup (and would expect more than just the one round!) than we earned against either Barcelona this season or AC Milan last season. And we could harbour realistic hopes of reaching, and perhaps winning, another European final!
Surely 3 or 4 rounds of the UEFA Cup would earn us more money than just 2 Champions League games?
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dbbia:
You’re right I did forget Nottingham Forrest. (Slap on wrist)
But surely you’d agree - if you’re in, you’re in to win. That goes for every club in the competition. Clubs with more punch than Celtic.
One day it might be our turn again. Who knows?
I just love the occasion dbbia and hope each year we can do a wee bit more. It’d help if we could avoid the tournament favourites year after year.
I’d rather win the league and take my chances than come second and get knocked out In a CL qualifier and have six guaranteed European 2nd division games.
Either that or every club in Europe out with the top twelve money earners might as well call it quits now and not enter the CL.
And with that logic dbbia how do you think every Hibs, Hearts, Dundee United, etc etc., supporter gets through his day. Do you think, they too, want to drop down a division and compete in the first division because they have a better chance of winning it. Eck this league, they could all say, we’ve got no chance, It’s between Celtic and Rangers, so I’m gonna take my ball down stairs.
C’mon dbbia we’ve got to aspire, (dream) to the highest level possible. After all isn’t that what sport is all about?
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DBBIA, I thought Ipox already was a landfill site, judging by the smell, and the rubbish drifting around the field on a matchday.
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Last link for a bit. And it's not for Winningemmell
Schadenfreude
This is the reaction in Barcelona to Real Madrid's exit last night. It's basically the equivalent - in sentiment if not linguistically - of writing a headline saying, 'No Huns in Europe'.
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All this talk about dropping into the UEFA just to get more points co-efficient and (potentialy) more money is absolutely ridiculous.
Imagine the pelters GS would take on here if in the last CL group game at Celtic Park, with Celtic needing a win to get second or a draw for third, he played for the draw.
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I know mort, it was ridiculous. Sorry.
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Spot on Paul. I hope someone in our club is taking this up at the very highest of levels.
Look at the seeding list for the start of the season. We were ranked 24th in Europe below such clubs as Espanyol, Villareal and even Newcastle United - who were 11th!
Dispite two last 16 qualifications in a row we are likely to fall in next year's rankings. Teams that will be above us will include FC Basel, Lille, AZ Alkmaar, Steau Bucharest and Middlesborough!
The Champions' League is the top trophy and should have the best teams in Europe involved. The rewarding of equal points for wins in the secondary competition works against this goal and is also is illogical and unfair.
Come on UEFA - make the change!
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Stoir- absolutely, we all must dream. In a certain light I think I resemble a young George Clooney, although Haraldina can't see it.
Tell me, did you get more pleasure from our victory over Liverpool in the Uefa than the game on Tuesday? I expect the answer might be yes.
OK, let's agree that we all want to make progress. How is this to be achieved? Well, improving the co-efficient for a start. So how do we do that? Paul's article suggests a way.
Improving the squad might be another. How are we going to do this? Spend money- but hey, look at Leeds. Are their fans still dreaming? Now they can't even beat the mighty Carlisle. Plus too many of our recent big money buys have been..disappointing.
Bring through our own youngsters? Not much sign of that happening.
Anyways, this season's European campaign has to play second fiddle to winning the league. So far we've been playing all the notes, but not necessarily in the right order.
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Paul
I do agree with what you are saying and have often though about this as well (in truth it really didn't matter because we had the seville years point backing us up).
But if you get more points in the champions league the top teams would constantly score much higher than the rest. Leaving it virtually impossible to break into the top pots in seedings. After all, without the seville year (UEFA Cup points!!) we would never have been in Pot2, as we don't score enough point in the ECL.
I think scoring in the UEFA cup early rounds should reward less points, similar to the qualifying rounds.
It is tough to come up with a fair system.
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dbbia:
I took more pleasure from beating AC Milan in the CL than I did beating Liverpool in the UEFA Cup. But I do take your point.
However, what was the end result of beating Liverpool?
What was the end result of being beaten by Barcelona?
Again you are right though, those games are now history and winning the league is our only, and immediate, priority; though I think we both knew that was always the case.
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To go back to the dicussion on our midfield.
Scottish Premier League Stats
Start/Sub on/Sub Off/Goals
8 Scott Brown 27/0/2/4
11 Paul Hartley 16/3/2/0
15 Evander Sno 2/8/1/0
18 Massimo Donati 19/3/10/4
19 Barry Robson 1/3/1/1
25 Shunsuke Nakamura 13/2/5/6
46 Aiden McGeady 24/1/1/7
Interesting stats, notice how Massimo has been subbed in 10 of his 19 starts. What to make of them? who knows, who cares? Just thought it might make interesting reading for some.
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Seville was a great experience and if we had won it it might have prepared us for a run at the CL like Porto have done.
Aiming to finish 3rd in our CL qualification group is not just a high risk strategy in that it´s one place closer to 4th it is a competition without kudos. Financially it is without guarantee which makes future planning harder. We ran at a loss all the way to Seville. The only reason we went to Seville in the first place was because we couldn´t beat Basle so it doesn´t even provide any bragging rights.
I know Barcelona was a mismatch but a little more quality and belief and we could give them a scare ..... possibly even catch them out.
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an unfair system for co-eff points however damaging for us or other established teams, does offer the advantage of not letting the competition stagnate.
our eufa cup runs years ago helped us transform into an established champs league team.
if this leads to smaller teams having an unfair advantage is it not in the benefit of the game in the long run.
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All this talk about which competition would we rather be in.
Champs League for us, then Thursday nights are free to watch the Huns get pumped. YAAAS
C'mon Werder Bremen
Mucker
German for the night
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This statement just in from Marco Materazzi.
Marco Materazzi made the following statement:
“I really appreciate the apology published in The Daily Star. The truth is now coming out – finally. I am looking forward to a quick and positive conclusion to my claims against the other newspapers who published lies about me. Only then will I be truly satisfied.”
I flagged this up the other day because I believe, like Paul, that the days of sports journalists writing and talking tosh with impunity are numbered.
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Is the Werder Bremen game on tv tonight?
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Aw Naw
On the subject of Seville, Tony Roper is presently writing a play called The Celts In Seville.
It will be on at the Pavilion Theatre from 18th August to 6th September.
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Celtic_first,
Tosh Mc Kinley isnae that puny ask Henk ? :-)
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Boltonbhoy,
BBC 1 Scotland @ 8pm. Don't think it is on down south unlesss you can get it on Sky?
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AbMucker ;- That does seem like a sound theory, however when Rangers win tonight it will tend to ruin your theory slightly :-)
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Boltonbhoy
I think you can watch it on the BBC website. And as you're still moping around ill, why not make a start on those translations from earlier?
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Awe Naw, I had a look at the site and have done a bit of Research for you.
My advice - avoid like Glasgow Green on the 12th of July.
Therags...
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Ed the Bear,
I'll Stick with my theory just now and even if it goes wrong I will count it as a variable which could not be acciunted for but will eventually correct itself!
I also had a bet on for us to win 3-1 the other night!!!!
Mucker
Really doesn't care about co-efficients!
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Obviously I should learn to spell before putting on bets!
Accounted!! Better...
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Edward,
I was at the Eintracht V Bremen game a couple of weeks ago and Eintracht won 1.0 :-)
They lost Diego in the first half mind.
If Eintracht can beat them at home then I reckon you can too. You just need to make sure that you dont concede in the first half and that Diego gets sent off early in the first.
Diego was on German TV last night saying that they will need to watch Harry Ferguson carefully ;-)
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Therags
much appreciated ... thanks for the research
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Is Harry Ferguson a bald footballer who wears specs, a shirt with big lapels and lots of pens in his top pocket?
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I was going with an heir to the Tractor Firm - Massey Ferguson
Or is it us who's meant to play in a potatoe field???
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Celtic_first,
Werder Bremens PR girls B´s must be similar to her H´s
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BigChips, one round in the Uefa Cup against English, Italian or big Spanish or German opposition would earn Celtic more money than a last 16 round in the CL.
Marktim, the Seville run helped Celtic gain a pot 2 spot, but if we did not/cannot earn points in the CL then we (or anyone else) does not deserve a pot 2 seeding.
We were seeded above Benfica when we drew them in 2006 and were comfortably above them after we eliminated them that season. We eliminated them again this season and now we are 41st ranked team and they are 18th.
Celtic First, incredible that he is still wating almost two years later.
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Gordon J - thanks. Should be able to get it via Sky.
Celtic_First - just for you :-)
La estancia en Barcelona de 15.000 seguidores del Celtic de Glasgow ha transcurrido dentro de los límites del civismo y de un sano ambiente de fiesta, más allá de algún incidente aislado que es inevitable en cualquier desplazamiento masivo. Muchas veces hemos criticado en estas páginas actitudes de imprevisión o de falta de determinación por parte de la Administración que han dado alas a comportamientos incívicos. Imágenes como la de los hinchas del Glasgow Rangers orinando en el monumento a Francesc Macià son difíciles de olvidar. Con ocasión de la visita de los vecinos católicos de la ciudad escocesa, sin embargo, desde el Ayuntamiento se han tomado una serie de decisiones que han permitido que la eliminatoria de octavos de final fuera simplemente eso, una fiesta deportiva. La organización ...
Translation:
Apart from some isolated incidents, which are inevitable with whatever large displacement, the visit of 15,000 Celtic supporters took place in a civilised manner and with-in a healthy, fiesta-like atmosphere, . Many times through these pages we have criticised the lack of forward planning or the lack of determination on the part of the Administration which has lead to uncivil behaviour. Images like those of Glasgow Rangers fans urinating on the monument of Frances Macia are difficult to forget. However, on the occasion of the visit of their catholic neighbours in the Scottish city, the Town Hall took a series of decisions which allowed this last 16 clash to be simply a festival of sport... (can’t access the rest of the article – sorry)
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Translations of 2 of the articles posted earlier by Celtic_First.
Cor de Clave could well be something musical ..choir etc. Also, I was a bit stumped by “seguratas y sus perros” which translates as “the doubtless and their dogs” or, to put it in Glaswegian “the establishment and its referees”
The third one, about the political guy, covers a lot more than just Celtic
1. Apart from some isolated incidents, inevitable with any huge gathering, the visit to Barcelona of 15,000 Glasgow Celtic fans has taken place without overstepping the boundaries of good manners and respectful behaviour, and amidst a healthy atmosphere of celebration. On these pages, we have often criticised the Administration on their lack of foresight or lack of resolve such as that which previously made possible disrespectful and offensive behaviour. Images such as those of Glasgow Rangers fans urinating on the monument of Francesc Macià and then boasting about it on Follow Follow, are difficult to forget. Nevertheless, on the occasion of the visit from the Scottish city of their catholic neighbours we have seen from the City council concerted action that has ensured that the “last sixteen” game being simply that, a sporting celebration.
I made a little bit of that up
2. Why do people sing? Why do any of us sing? What do we sing? When? where? With whom? Why do we sing? What would life be like without songs? Those questions occurred to me in a metro car filled with Celtic fans. One song followed another, sung with such passion and accord, that they shortened my long journey. When they got off at Maria Cristina, the corridors resounded to their songs and everybody, even the “sophisticates” (very loose…i.e. wrong translation), looked on at this massed choir in surprise and admiration. They were not hooligans, but a colourful “cor de Clave” bedecked in green and white hoops. A metro car can be full of emotion when it echoes to beautiful songs like “The fields of Athenry”. The Scots sang it with much charm from start to finish...
John
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BoltonBhoy and Cadizzy
Good work there lhads.
The reference to 'seguratas y sus perros' is to the security guards at the metro station.
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Thanks for the Translations lhads!
Unlikely to read that stuff here (Probably because I don't buy the papers!) but nice to hear!
Mucker
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More from Spain:
Por sus canciones los conoceréis
Ramon Solsona - 06/03/2008
¿Qué se canta hoy en los estadios?, ¿y en las bodas?, ¿y en las celebraciones?
¿Por qué cantan los pueblos? ¿Por qué cantamos cada uno de nosotros? ¿Qué cantamos? ¿Cuándo, dónde, con quién, para qué cantamos? ¿Cómo sería nuestra vida sin canciones? Esas preguntas me vinieron a la cabeza en un vagón de metro atestado de seguidores del Celtic. Encadenaban una canción tras otra con tanta fuerza y tanta unanimidad que el largo trayecto se hizo corto. Cuando bajaron en Maria Cristina, atronaron los pasillos con sus cánticos y todo el mundo, hasta los seguratas y sus perros, contemplaba con sorpresa admirativa aquella masa coral. No eran hooligans, sino un pintoresco cor de Clavé ataviado con franjas verdes y blancas. Un vagón de metro puede llenarse de sentimientos cuando suenan bellas canciones como The fields of Athenry. Los escoceses la cantaron entera y con mucha unción ...
Translation:
By their songs you shall know them
Why do people sing? Why does each one of us sing? What do we sing? When, where, with whom and why do we sing? What would our life be like without songs? These were the questions running through my head in a metro car full of Celtic supporters. They chanted one song after another whith such strength and in such unity that the long journey seemed short. When they got off at Maria Cristina they filled the passageways with their songs and everyone, even the security police and their dogs, looked at this massed choir in surprised admiration. These were not hooligans but a picturesque chorus (?) bedecked in green and white. A metro car can be filled with so many emotions when beautiful songs such as the Fields of Athenry are sung. The Scots sang it in its entirety and with great solemnity (?)...
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Has there been any derogatory reports relating to the Celtic support?
After the build up and how the media stories that the Spanish Police were "ready for us" I was just wondering if our exemplary behaviour abroad has been reported.
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ANNAOAN :- I honestly think we can beat them at Ibrox, whether we can go through or not is another matter but Rangers have a not bad record against German teams. (apart from the infamous Eintracht game that is)
AbMucker :- If Massey Ferguson were to help us plough through Werder then I say go for it :-)
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BB, you beat me to it but my computer is in fact a minute slow!
Security guards!...nearly right then... I quite like the idea of sophisticated, know it all, up-their-own-backsides, condescending types being reduced to tears by the Fields (fur coat but nae hankies). As Roy Walker used to say..."It's a good answer but it's not right"
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ticketyboo,
I had a look at a few of the online editions this morning. There appear to be no stories at all about the excellent behaviour of our fans. The only story is one in the Evening Times about a bus being caught in a snow storm in France.
If there had been trouble you can bet that large headlines would have ensued.
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The relevant part of the third article:
"Hay que poner que los aficionados del Celtic no son como los del Glasgow Rangers, son más pacíficos", comentó, tras inquirir al responsable de fotografía, David Airob, si tenía una foto con una pancarta que había visto en una televisión con el lema: "Catalans, el Celtic no es el Glasgow".
Translation:
"It has to be said that Celtic fans are not like those of Rangers, they are more peaceful"
he commented after enquiring of the Director of Photography if they had a photo of a banner which he had seen on television which said: "Catalans, Celtic are not Glasgow"!
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03/04 04/05 05/06 06/07 07/08 rank08
18 Benfica Por 13.3825 13.6950 17.8150 18.6675 13.3805 76.940
41 Celtic Sco 15.4335 8.5675 1.4025 13.2275 12.5575 51.188
ARTMEDIA should not be forgotten either .. although we´d like too
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Re-posting this for those who missed it overnight;
A lot has been made here on CQN & elsewhere about how few yellow cards have been shown to Rangers skipper Barry Ferguson this season. I thought it would be interesting to compare Ferguson’s card tally this season with that in previous years. Before I start let me go on record as stating that I’m a great admirer of Ferguson as a player & would gladly have him in our team.
The following figures cover purely his domestic appearances (i.e. League, Cup & League Cup) for Rangers & Blackburn since making his senior debut against Hearts on the last day of the 1996/97 season (all statistics taken from www.soccerbase.com);
1996/97 1 Appearance 0 Yellows 0 Reds
1997/98 8 Appearances 0 Yellows 0 Reds
1998/99 28 Appearances 7 Yellows 0 Reds
1999/2000 37 Appearances 7 Yellows 0 Reds
2000/01 36 Appearances 9 Yellows 2 Reds
2001/02 29 Appearances 4 Yellows 0 Reds
2002/03 46 Appearances 4 Yellows 1 Reds
2003/04 18 Appearances 4 Yellows 0 Reds
2004/05 36 Appearances 5 Yellows 1 Reds
2005/06 35 Appearances 3 Yellows 1 Reds
2006/07 32 Appearances 5 Yellows 0 Reds
2007/08 29 Appearances 1 Yellows 0 Reds
(as at 5/3/08)
Of course, Ferguson is no doubt a more mature & better disciplined player now but, even so, the reduction in the number of cards shown to him this season compared to others is nothing short of remarkable.
Even more remarkable, however, are the disciplinary figures in his European & International appearances (note that he has never been sent off at either of these levels);
1998/99 10 Appearances 1 Yellows
1999/2000 17 Appearances 3 Yellows
2000/01 13 Appearances 3 Yellows
2001/02 10 Appearances 1 Yellows
2002/03 7 Appearances 2 Yellows
2003/04 8 Appearances 4 Yellows
2004/05 7 Appearances 0 Yellows
2005/06 14 Appearances 4 Yellows
2006/07 13 Appearances 5 Yellows
2007/08 16 Appearances 2 Yellows
(as at 5/3/08)
Of course, we all know the clichés about statistics & I don’t suppose that these figures actually prove anything but, I think it’s reasonable to say;
1. That Scottish referees have historically been more lenient to Ferguson than their foreign counterparts.
And perhaps more importantly;
2. That Scottish referees are being much, much more lenient towards Ferguson this season than they have been previously.
Read what you like into that.
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The fact that there was no trouble in Barca was due in no way to the way the match was policed .
I have never seen police look so eager and desperate to have a go .The fact that the match ( and surrounding days ) went off without incident is due solely to the exemplary behaviour of our support .
Hopefully now , given this most glaring example , the footballing capitals of europe will appreciate that we are nothing like the huns and can be trusted to behave properly.
Well done bhoys i enjoyed it even more given that we all behaved impecably
HAIL HAIL
STAND UP FOR THE CHAMPIONS
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Dick Byrne
That's all very well, but Harry Ferguson is the man of the moment. What are his stats?
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Hullo Paul & everyone,
Have enjoyed CQN for a long time now and have finally got round to posting.
The talk of aiming for Uefa cup qualification has disturbed me. I am just back from a fantastic trip to Barcalona. Despite the cold in the top tier it was an amazing experience. Celtic were playing the high profile teams that i always felt we belonged with.
Do you want to play Auxerre or Basle next year? take me to the San Siro or the Nou Camp any day.
I do not feel that a run in the Uefa Cup, Europe's 2nd division as it was put earlier, would help at all. It would not help our profile, our standing as a worldwide club or help our player develop.
Let's win the leauge and get back in with the big boys.
It's where we belong.
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Abmucker... not an heir, the man himself
Harry Ferguson
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Henry George (Harry) Ferguson (November 4, 1884 - October 25, 1960) had an important role in the development of the modern agricultural tractor, and his name lives on in the name of the Massey Ferguson company. As a young man he became the first Irishman to build and fly his own aeroplane, with the 1909 flight of the Ferguson monoplane, and his company later developed the first four wheel drive Formula One car, the Ferguson P99.
He was born at Growell, near Dromore, County Down, Ireland, and was the son of a farmer.
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.......after he developed the first four wheel drive Formula One car, the Ferguson P99, he went on to creat the character Bing Hitler
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Hi All,
Was in Barcelona this week and met a few very drunk and unpleasant characters among the Celtic support who embarras me greatly when I see them like this but in general everything went very well. No issues in the city.
The Police were well prepared for and in fact for me were looking for trouble at the game.
I was sitting just in front of the main Celtic support in the last row of the Barcelona support with my Spanish friend so did not experience the issues that my friends among the Celtic support did with the Police inside the stadium.
At the end of the game, as announced, the Celtic support was kept inside (despite the stadium being near empty by full time) and when eventually they were let out down the walkways the Police were allowing 10 - 20 metres of movement then stopping which was causing crushing in the supporters. My friends were at the front of the line, one young idiot was shouting abuse at the Police and got throuwn violently back into the crowd for his trouble. Serves him right!
One elderly supporter tripped as he was pushed from behind after one stoppage and bumped into a Policeman who was ready to take his baton to him. He was stopped by a fellow officer, the whole situation was tinder box like due to the attitude of the police to the Celtic supporters. It could have been a lot worse.
The attitude of the Police was a reaction to the issues created by the Rangers supporters who my taxi driver on the way back to the airport described as "animals" who are "never welcome back in Barcelona" and definitely made this trip, my third visit to Barcelona for the football a little less enjoyable than the first two.
However we had a great reaction from the Barcelona public and especiually the supporters in an around the stadium. We had a great time among our group but hopefully next time the Police will have forgotten the behaviour of the Rangers fans because it definitely clouded there judgement of us. During the exit from the stadium the fans were singing "Wer'e not Glasgow Rangers" at the Police.
Anyway all safe and sound and drunks apart had an excellent trip.
Hail Hail!
RobinBhoy
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Paul
"but if we did not/cannot earn points in the CL then we (or anyone else) does not deserve a pot 2 seeding."
I am a bit unsure of that. Hypothetically if Spurs win the UEFA cup for the next 3 years, but don't qualify for the competition via their domestic league (could happen!, would like to have used Aberdeen/Hearts as example!!), would they not be deserving of a high pot placing if they finally qualified?
Don't get me wrong, I agree with you, more so now the seville points are gone !!
I also don't think UEFA would want to undermine the UEFA cup anymore than it is at the moment. By reducing co-eff points that would be the case and the big leagues would treat it with even more disdain.
I would rather see the UCL go back to the 2 legged format from round 1. Give smaller nations more of a chance of progression.
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Re. Uefa or CL!
I think we would all prefer to have the high glitz and glamour teams of the Champions League and wouldn't suggest for one minute settling for anything less.
However I think the jist of some of the comments is fair in that if you can get a better set of points from playing in a lesser competition then it obvisouly needs addressing.
A case of points not meaning prizes in this case!
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Surely the very fact that there is an argument for playing in the secondary competition as being more beneficial proves that something is wrong?
The Champions' League is the premier competition and teams should be rewarded for doing well in it.
Any system that will have Middlesborough seeded higher than us next year must be flawed.
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Its not just the Seville year that has dropped off that´s causing us to plummet it´s because we earned 1.4025 coefficient points the year of 05/06 Artmedia and Benfica earned 17.8 points that year. Now that is most of the difference. We know that the chosen model is over a 5 year period. Benfica are helped by Porto and Sporting Lisbon. We only get help from Rangers. I think its important that we dont go bleating at the first sign of injustice
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Cellik first.
I am not a stats man,but the other night,which was the first time I had seen the "stats" as they were displayed on sky sports(distance covered,amount of passes,amount of passes executed correctly).
Paul Hartley was somewhere in the region of 10km ground covered and very high(90's I think,will stand corrected if I am wrong)in succesful passes executed.
Now I live in a country where the coverage of the national game is blanket,and I mean blanket.
Where every touch,possesion,kick,handball,tackle,possesion,"marks",either contested or not,succesful or otherwise is recorded and made available to the commentators as the game progresses.
And these numbers are how a player is judged.
Not just by the TV mob,but by the coaches themselves.
It is a crude,but extremely serious way of gauging a players effectiveness.
Contested possesions and marks are always treated with far more due than a non contested one.
To get back to the point,from the stats I seen,Paul Hartley was by far the most succesful man on the park,with regards the three criteria set down by Sky,with regards to the stats.
Does most,or any of the posters here think he was our best player?
Personally I thought he done what he has done every time he has played for us this season,and that is done the job,extremely well,in whatever position he has played(of which there have been many).
When he moved forward the other night,we looked at our most menacing(which isn't saying much, I know)
Now I know the sky "stats" are extremely limited in their scope(3 things),but do you feel if these,and other stats were available to your"average" punter,then the personal dislikes and crusades against certain players wouuld be proved to what they are?
Nothing more than ill judged tirades against a player whom personal dislike clouds performance and worth to the team?
Or do you think over analysation(is that a word?)is just something to keep Sky employees busy so they can fill the screen with nonsense whilst substitutions are taking place?
Play o'Dea,Welcome first,but I think you are missing the point.
What the "UEFA cup" angle is,is play the Champion's League group stages,get the cash,finish third,then drop to the UEFA,get two or three rounds in and then pick up far more points than two two defeats to AC and Barca.
Perhaps we need to learn to walk before we can do the hurdles?
And what is wrong with us picking up the points to ensure that when we do qualify for the group stages,which,believe me,is a lottery at best, most seasons,we set ourselves up for pot 2?
Which,if Spurs(like Seville this year)qualify for the tournament this year,will probably find themselves in!!!
Ridiculous I know,but as Paul has pointed out,perhaps UEFA need to look at this,just as Scott McDonald will probably find out when it comes to Golden Boot time.
That his goals are only worth a certain percentage of goals in the Spanish,Italian,or English leagues.
Beating the championsof lesser leagues,or second or third or fourth teams,in the best leagues SHOULD be worth more than beating the fifth or sixth or seventh teams of the big leagues and the second or third teams of the lesser leagues in a lesser tournament.
Italiabhoy,
why don't you come on and say Gary Caldwell had a good game at the Camp Nou?
Or would that upset your campaign of personal vilification against the guy.
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Awe_Naw
Agree, we never moaned while we had the UEFA points!
Although there is a bit of a flaw, especially now the UEFA cup has group games. Large amounts of points are easy to come by.
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Repost from earlier thread
A request to anyone from the DubaiCSC.
I will be in Dubai on Sunday. Can I assume that the game will be showing in the Dubliners? I could phone the hotel but I don't trust them to get it right.
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Caddizy,you are correct,the game will be at Dubliners,that is where it always is.
And refer to Tinytim for the hospitality you should expect.
And if you are there.
Ask "who is Kano"?
And you shall meet my brother.
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Apologies for the spelling of your name too!!!
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Just using this site as therapy following a conversation with a work colleague who put this to me:
Any celebration of St Patrick's Day is sectarian. The day itself is indeed sectarian.
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Bloke 109
I hope you retorted with: 'One Scotland, many cultures,' because that's true, isn't it?
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Kano - Hartley's stats were 96% for pass completion - a very high standard indeed considering the opposition. He was my MOM for the Hoops.
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And just wait until the G82 crowd come on with their claim that St Patrick came from Dumbarton.
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Hartley played well. He's matured into a very fine footballer.
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What has David Byrne of the talking heads and St. Patrick got in common ?
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As a CLUB Celtic are undoubtedly big enough for the Champions League. The reports from Barca show the Support is world class.
Unfortunately events on the pitch show that the current SQUAD is not up to the rigours of Champions League foootball beyond the Group stage,
Anyways, my pain at having to pop into St Andrews St and pay my speeding ticket was assuaged by bumping into Hoopslegend Gary Caldwell in the Candleriggs after he had given a nice demonstration of how to reverse park your motor.
If anyone's interested the t/office has tickets for the League game against the Mothers on Saturday week.
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Kano,many thanks for the confirmation. I've stayed in the hotel a couple of times but have only been in once for a game(Dundee Utd 3-0)...during Ramadan! It was surreal seeing a couple of dozen Tims sipping Cokes until the start of the second half when the bar opened at 7 o'clock. My brother also lives in Dubai and he should be with me. So, if your brother asks "Who is Cadizzy?" he shall meet my brother..so apologies to him in advance
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Awenaw- they both wrote songs about buildings and food?
Songs that could be sung by the 'Cor de Clave'.
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But while Jewell admits Miller may be sold he told BBC Radio Derby the price has to be right: "We paid nearly £2.25m for Kenny."
So we never got £3M at all much closer to £2m tho still a good price
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DBBIA,
Dont you think that we are not really ready for the group stages until the possibility of securing a point or a win away from home seems a real possibility ?
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DBBIA
close ... but here´s what I was looking for
don't know why...they slither like they do
anacondas...they wander through
ate my honey...my arm and leg
i haven't seen my...sister peg
i wanna float...but they'll smell me
and swim my way
snakes be in the river...dropping in the water
snakes be in the river...shifting in the water
swallow me down...swallow me down
i don't know why...these beasts are so bad
all those dreadful things...make me so mad
rubbery motion...they like to get wet
they're sleek and mean....and they'd make lousy pets
i wanna float...but they'll smell me
and swim my way
snakes be in the river...dropping in the water
snakes be in the river...shifting in the water
swallow me down...swallow me......
hug me...squeeze me...crush me...eat me
no, you can't...no you can't
no you can't...eat more of me
snakes be in the river...dropping in the water
snakes be in the river...shifting in the water
swallow me down...swallow me down
i don't know why...they eat you but they do
bloody bubbles...your life is through
sixteen 'condas...starting to crawl
and here am i...the biggest bait of them all
i wanna float...but they'll smell me
and swim my way
snakes be in the river...dropping in the river
snakes be in the river...shifting in the water
swallow me down...swallow me down
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DBBIA
oh and they were both born in Dumbarton ... played in the same band together at school ... above was the first song that that they wrote together :-)
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There has been much discussion today about the inequities of the UEFA coefficient system, specifically the way that it effectively values a win in the UEFA Cup as being equal to a win in the Champions League, against much tougher opposition.
Teams such as Benfica and Spartak Moscow have gained more coefficient points this season than Celtic... and even Rangers, who fared worse than Celtic in the Champions League, are equal with Celtic's coeff prior to tonight's 1st leg game against Werder Bremen. There is a strong likelihood that Rangers will earn more coefficient points this season than their more successful (in CL terms) neighbours.
But while UEFA's coefficient system does not exactly reflect the relative values of their two competitions, it also further benefits teams from the big leagues by adding in a "national coefficient" on top of their already superior team coefficients.
To demonstrate the advantage afforded to those teams, consider this (assuming I have worked it out correctly):
Clubs such as Everton and Aston Villa, should they qualify for next season's CL or UEFA Cup, before they have even kicked a ball, will be awarded points equating to 63% of what Celtic have earned this season for reaching the last 16 of the Champions League... in effect just for being English!
Source: Bert Kassies (and a little extrapolation)...
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From Wikipedia
"There is no page titled "Cor de clave".
See! it really was a "difficult to translate" moment. If it ain't on Wiki, it don't exist
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