 Sunday, April 13, 2008
Celtic have opportunity to resolve recent paucity against Motherwell
Not so long ago I remember discussing the dangers of complacency before a game against Motherwell, a problem that will not be in evidence in the Celtic dressing room at Fir Park tomorrow. If anything there will, or should, be a few worried men.
I don’t subscribe to the lucky/unlucky explanation of football results; last week Celtic were predictable and easily managed by 10-man Motherwell, so it is perhaps fortuitous that the players and manager have an opportunity to make amends and put on a true Celtic performance tomorrow.
Team selection will be critical. Having brought Giorgios Samaras and Barry Robson to the club in January Gordon Strachan has been reluctant to start them, which I think has cost Celtic points. If both don’t start tomorrow I will be a stage beyond amazed.Labels: Match Preview
146 Comments:
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P67
Any word on the state of the pitch? There were rumours earlier that yet another cancellation was possible.
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Paul67 from last post
Paul67 - i specifically stated that was not a dig at you, but you seem to have taken it as one.
James Forrest for one has been tonight asked was he auditioning for the Express or the Mail , thats not exactly an agreement on his opinions, and in fact is almost as bad an insult as being called a hun
The party line, in my view, and perhaps it wasn't the best choice of phrase , is that as Gordon Strachan was chosen by our board then until they decide otherwise he should be backed and supported.
CQN remains a place where opposing views are allowed, (even Ed's) , spending as much time as I do reading it, (as my wife has often pointed out) I am aware of that. Just not sure they are actually welcomed. Some posters on here are more pleasant to Ed than they are to fellow Celtic supporters, and yes I know Ed is a gentleman, but he is still one of THEM.
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I can't see the game going ahead tomorrow, and if it does the pitch will be in an awful state.
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James
Erudite reply, as I expected. Thanks.
Have been reading here for years now and look forward to your posts, along with many others, and understand the raw nerve endings at this time. You been hiding?
On Gordon's situation, he is betweeen a rock and a hard place.
Change and fail, slated. Change and succeed, I told you so.
Do nothing and fail, bye bye. Do nothing and succeed....on this one I'll be on here hitting the F5 every 5 seconds!
Hail Hail
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Paul -
I disagree on the luck thing but Gordon needs to experience an unseasonal Epiphany tomorrow if we are to prevail.
With the odd/glorious exception Celtic have struggled in ML1 for almost three sorrowful decades, time for some jhoyful.
Nite all
Celtic 1 Rest of the World didny
WG
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Reposted from previous:
Bhoysfour:
Totally in agreement with you that Del should have kept his anger in-house, but such is his anger at present I doubt it would have stayed there long. But yes, I wish to God he hadn't done it because there is no way any incoming manager can keep him having undermined this one. So, I don't think he will stay.
As to not singing One Gordon Strachan, at the time I was in total agreement with you and on the few occasions the troops did sing it I thought it was less than full or sincere.
I think this is a measure of the deep misgivings many people have had about Gordon Strachan (there, giving him his due) for a long, long time, and much as it pains me to say this, they were right.
I hate feeling this way. Not since Barnes have we been in this position, where some honest to God soul searching is going on. It seems a lot of people are finding it hard to deal with.
I grew up with two constants in my life during my teenage years and a bit beyond: Tory General Election wins and Rangers winning leagues.
I never would have believed Labour governments which have won landslides could bring me such heartache and inner turmoil, or that a Celtic manager who had won two out of three titles would be a source of my feeling this way.
In the last few weeks I've had to wonder if what's changed isn't me, have I become too used to victory now? Does part of me actually CRAVE the relative comfort of defeat?
I have also wondered if perhaps success has not made me selfish, and I do believe that might be it. I want a Labour government to behave like one and I want Celtic to look like Celtic and play like Celtic, the Celtic I heard about from my father and he heard about from his.
But more, I realise, I think, that mistakes made have made contributed to the present state of affairs, and they were mistakes made in the process, not simply in the here and now and the end result.
When Labour decided winning was everything, they became a lesser organisation. When Celtic's board of directors hired Strachan, we settled for less than what we could get, probably because the best would have cost more money.
And so the sickness has spread. The pain has grown. The solutions have been put off. And I am back to where I started. With the likelyhood of a Tory government in the next election and my honest to God fear that Rangers will emerge from this season not only with a treble but with momentum on their side and a coach who has the beating of ours. There we have a political party which could and should have been cast into the wilderness for all time pulling itself back into power and a Rangers team so skint and bereft of imagination they actually went backwards. And right now they hold all the cards.
Continuing down these roads is the pathway to disaster. And what makes it worse, far worse than anything I've known before, is one unescapable fact:
It didn't HAVE to be LIKE THIS.
That makes me absolutely sick.
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Steinbusbyshankly:
That's not the way we should be doing business, no, but as the manager does not care what the fans sing then it will do him no harm at all.
Richie:
Thanks mate. I have indeed been very busy! I've been editing my novel like mad, watching Celtic through closed fingers and, of course, work, work, working away!
And drinking. Yes. Lots of that. It's become a neccessity I'm afraid. See "watching Celtic through closed fingers" for details!
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James -
great post there, very pertinent and thoughtful.
Tomorrow I go to battle 100% behind Gordon and the Bhoys
Nite mate
WG
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Today has been CQN at its best.
Varied views with very little of the 'party line' talk and personal insults.
And some of the arguments put forward are hard to argue against!
My own tuppence worth is that one of Gordon's biggest mistakes, in my humble opinion, was giving big Mick the captaincy.
Left him with no room to maneouver with a relatively inexperienced player in a key position.
Hail Hail
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SFTB,
very pertinent points from the previous thread
"I think he should walk because he does not deserve what he's getting. And I fear for our next man because I fear what we've become.
But, hey, if the worst happens, we're still Celtic fans, right? And there must be something which still distinguishes us from the dark side."
At a time when we were at our lowest ebb the Bunnet came in and rescued us. He implemented a plan and with his and our financial backing we were resurrected. The board DD raised expectations and injected cash due to courting future EPL entry on the back of the costly Barnes failure. We got to Seville and enjoyed fantastic times under MON but it has resulted in a more parsonimous era. We are paying still for those decisions. Was the MON era worth it. You bet it was ? but while nipping the financial bud made sense, to change the emphasis so severely to profits rather than football development highlights an administration bereft of ideas and whose real ambition for Celtic is associated with money and kudos rather than glory. I have to say I appreciate what they are doing and understand how they are going about it but dont know where they are going with it as the last few years incongruent financial returns to actual spend has perfectly illustrated.
So is it any surprise that the machinations of plc´s has alienated a support that is being squeezed as customers. This is one of the main reasons why their has been a change of atmosphere and perception.
I cringe when I hear the response to any deep assessment of Celtic from its employees recently. At a match level it´s statistics and a lecture that I have just seen a marvelous game of football when I know I haven´t. At a club level it´s profits, turn over, wages, income stream and profiles.
What we need to be careful of is accusing everyone associated with Rangers of being in denial when we are in even bigger denial.
It all comes down to the issues of respect as was being discussed earlier. I wouldn´t be surprised if it was referred to in the board room as customer dissatisfaction.
I would call it supporter frustration with the work in progress and the assessments of where we are now. I think; if I could coin a phrase the, support wants more bang for its buck. It´s been well acquainted with better recently and it expects better. Not the same and not worse. To then be told dont complain will result in aggressive tendencies. It´s human nature
Hail Hail
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James Forrest, although I disagree with some of your views (particularly re Derek Riordan) it's very good to have you back on the blog. Your debate with SFTB earlier was first class.
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Bhoysfour (from previous thread),
Agree that Derek Riordan's comments were ill timed. I also, however, feel that the content and sentiment of his comments were 100% spot on.
Given the choice, I would have Derek Riordan available for selection next season. I would also have him available for selection this season, but someone else has decided otherwise. Unless we are 1 goal down with 5 minutes left, of course.
No man is bigger than the club.
I would suggest that failure to use your best players when they are available, to the detriment of the club, is a more valid demonstration of someone behaving as if they were bigger than the club than what Riordan has demonstrated in his interview.
Simple questions leave me puzzled.
Why was our best central defender not selected during a long period when we couldn't keep a clean sheet?
Why was our left back allowed to have nightmare after nightmare without getting rested or dropped?
Why was Scott Brown allowed to play game after game when he was clearly off form and consistently failing to deliver?
Why was Paul Hartley dropped after his best performance of the season in the 5-1 win at Pittodrie?
Why was Paul Hartley dropped for the next match after two excellent back to back performances away against Spartak Moscow (1-1) and St Mirren (5-1)?
Why was Paul Hartley and Giorgios Samaras dropped after "better than the rest" performances at Ibrox a couple of weeks ago?
Why has Gary Caldwell retained his place despite numerous errors and occasional calamities?
Why was JVOH not rested or dropped when he was clearly unable to hit a bovine animal's back end with a string musical instrument?
Why has the "best finisher at the club" not been given a chance to show it during a period while everybody else is struggling to locate the bovine animal and the forementioned musical instrument?
It is totally bewildering. No, it's worse than that I think.
One or two of these decisions are bewildering.
All of them combined amount to negligence.
We have someone who is failing to manage the players, to manage their performances and, as a result, is failing, in my opinion, to manage Celtic.
Donati - no.
Hartley - yes.
Caldwell - no.
Balde - yes.
Naylor - no.
Wilson - yes.
JVOH - no.
Samaras - yes.
If all the 'nos' are 'yesses' and all the 'yesses' are 'nos' I will guarantee we will not win.
When the whistle blows I shall be standing up for the Campions and singing support of the team - all the way. I shall not vocally abuse the manager or the players and no boo shall utter from my mouth against anyone wearing the hoops.
C'mon the hoops - give us something to go for on Wednesday night.
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Sir Paul
Whatever the composition of team that Mr.Strachan selects,tomorrow, will be accepted in it's ENTIRETY... in good faith by, my good self...
As being, the most feasible one,that could be fielded ,under the prevailing set of circumstances.
For you see,I am of the unalterable belief...
That the Celtic Manager, whomsoever he be,is the man on the spot.
Therefore, his team selections shall always be viewed by me, as the best team selection that is available to represent us... for who am I to know any better?
I always delegate authority...especially, in cases where I have not the slightest knowledge or expertize.
The Management of a Soccer Club certainly qualifies,most definitely, as being such a case.
Kojo.
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Paul
What exactly is "the stage beyond 'amazed'"?
Is it astonished? Or does that come after perplexed and before astounded? Where exactly would you rank flabberghasted? Personally I don't think dumbfounded would rank all that more highly than staggered, but 'surprised' would be the thin end of this particular wedge with bamboozled or bewildered most definitely at the thicker end. Thunderstruck has to be the daddy of them all though, but I don't think you were intimating that as a potential state of mind, were you?
I'll certainly be stupefied if Giorgios sits this one out, especially on that pitch where we will have to go long.
Now how would you describe that pitch? Boggin'? Mingin'? Quaggy? Soggy?........
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A mire of Quag?
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Kojo,
Kop out.
If Henrik Larsson was available for selection and Gordon failed to select him while we were losing games and not scoring goals, would you be so passively supportive of the manager?
At what point do you have an opinion of your own on the player selection?
You are flying a flag of convenience.
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My dear,dear friend Richie..
In making the appointmet of Mick to be the Celtic team Captain, I wholeheartly agree with your stated opinion.
I am on record, as claiming that move by Mr.Strachan was a total disaster in the making...one that our Manager would live to regret.
It is well known, that traditionally, the team Captain is ... UN-DROPPABLE!
You are spot on,pal... it has turned out to be... a disaster that is rapidly turning into...
A CATASTROPHE!
Kojo.
Yer pal... who likes yer thinking.
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U2
As I have stated...clearly and succinctly...
I never second guess the Manager...any Manager..on the Matter of Team Selection...
I bow to his superior knowledge.
He knows of the ALL the current exigencies that are extant,which heavily influence the selection process...and he takes all of that information,to which I or even your good self...are most definitely NOT Privy...into consideration, whenever he sits down to compose his team sheet!
Makes a wholelotta sense to me...
Doncha think?
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evening all..can only concur that the blog has been great reading today..pity about the mudslinging last night tho..poor stuff and certain parties should stay off the sauce methinks...
anyway fir park sunday..well hopefully the manager will get wise a bit tomorrow and play samaras and robson(centre mid) if we go down,lets do it with a bit of fight not the gutless nonsense of the last few weeks
regarding one of the previous threads about getafe and similar clubs signing policy another contributory factor could be the work permit situation in the uk..it may be easier for a spanish/portuguese club to sign these players than a uk club..maybe one for mcgrain/celtic first..
as for getafe..would have cata diaz here tomorrow as celtic first would verify..
free the other madrid one...
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U2
On your list of "Whys?" you omitted Naka.
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Where is Sean South?
Keane v Sven yesterday; if I was chosing a Celtic manager from these two it wouldn't be Roy!
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Early team news - CQN Exclusive:
Boruc
Hinkel Balde McManus O'Dea Wilson
McGeady Lennon Hartley Robson
JVoH & Skippy
Based on above team, comfortable 2-0 win Goals JVoH & Skippy (as usual when we managed to score)!
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Amigo Kojo,
Yes indeed too long since we chatted.
Well, on our debate about the manager's culpability, let's just say that I might be wrong......but then again so may you. For every Celtic fan there's a different opinion on the state of the team, but united we all are in our love for the club.
Tomorrow we'll see if "real men" (copyright GS), turn up or just plain boys. Somehow I think we'll see some steel.
Hail, hail
CB
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kev the mib mite spot 12 players if we went with that team...mind you no different to what we are up against every time we play the F.O.D
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Kojo,
If John Barnes was still picking the team would you have the same passive, no opinion, massa-knows-best approach??
If you have no opinion you can't be wrong.
You also can't be right.
Nightynight.
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U2
Surely one of the worst examples you could have chosen. Did John Barnes refuse to come out for the second half against ICT? In a game where the team we had on the park should have skated it?
Not saying John Barnes was blameless, but the team on the park have to do the business. That's what they're paid for. Handsomely.
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Anyhoo..
I don't think that there is a black and white scenario here.
Our failures of late can be put down to The Board, The Manager, The Players, The Establishment, and even The Fans.
Look back through this blog and you'll find eloquent (not always) arguments for any or all of these factors.
But we should be able to put forward theories and suggestions without getting personal with anyone other than The Establishment. IMHO.
Give them both barrels.
Hail Hail
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walkacross
Well counted. Lenny can't play he was just a bluff.
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KOJO 00.59
Dead right
Spot on.
Perfectly correct.
On the money.
As far as coaching is concerned,
Those who can,do.
Those who can`t, post on C.Q.N.
[Apologies to G.B.S.,I think!]
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I attended a birthday party for a famous Drummer Man last night who 36 years ago had months to live do to Alcoholism...The Humility of the Man was Humbling...
Alcoholisim tainted the lives of 3 of the British Isles greatest ever Soccer players who had everything life has to offer...Except Life itself...
To suffer from a Mental Handicap that slowly takes your soul...Can be soul destroying for these unfortunates loved ones...
The man shook my hand as i left last night...If we all had Humility being Humble would be a lot Harder...
o1bhoy
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kev never spotted lenny..just counted 12...
dyslexic csc
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James Forrest,
Thanks for the reply all of your points are well taken.
I have been feeling sick since the Rangers game and last week was a compounding of the previous one.
I do not agree with shouting down a manager of our club in any manner.
U2,
You are correct in every way regarding the support of our manager players and club, and may it continue until they have closed the door on Paradise.
Hail Hail
BF
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'mon the Hoops
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If you have a sofa - hide behind it now, because here comes season 93-94. The year of bucket seats in the Jungle, Lou Macari and, of course, Wayne 'Bertie' Biggins. And if those Three haven't got you reaching for the pills then read on...
The departure of manager Liam Brady in October 1993, a mere twelve games into the league season, lit the fuse. Discontent had spread during the previous months, and the board had done nothing except fuel this with a series of empty gestures designed to placate the masses, notably the Cambuslang fairy story. Endless reams of nonsense, littered with the phrase 'Green for go!' appeared in the View in a futile attempt to convince the fans that the board had the Cambuslang situation under control.
Many supporters remained unconvinced simply because they were boycotting the View. With a backdrop of a debt of £10 million, and an operating loss of £2 million, and a customer boycott in full swing Dr Michael Kelly chose this moment to announce that the bank was 'not uneasy' with the current state of the club's finances.
Emphasis should definitely be put on the word 'state'.
The resignation of the manager chosen by the board to take us in to the 90s put the seal on it. The board had failed in every conceivable area; the team were sub-standard, the stadium was a national joke, the fans were boycotting in the thousands, and you had more chance of catching a Celtic - related story in the financial section of the papers than anywhere else.
The search for Brady's replacement would involve hunting high and low, down the highways and byways of Stoke. For that was where former Celtic hero, now talismanic manager, Lou Macari was based. The word that he was The Chosen One emerged almost as soon as Brady fell on his sword. Whether or not this had any bearing on what happened next is open to debate.
Brady's assistant manager Joe Jordan took training on the Thursday morning. Once he'd finished that he cleared his desk and resigned. He said it was because he had been hired as an assistant to Brady, and felt it would be wrong to step into his shoes. Others felt that he was put out by the fact that the board hadn't appeared to have even considered him for the job.
Whatever the truth of this story the fact was we were now on our third manager in three days, as Frank Connor was asked to take charge. Incredible that Connor, who had been fired by Davie Hay in 1986, should now find himself in charge.
To top off the perfect end to the perfect week, it was AGM time! Yes the annual shooting gallery, when the board stumble through several hours of serious abuse, with only David Smith having the faintest idea of what all those numbers meant. That year's event was enlivened by the introduction of some court injunctions to the proceedings. Under the rules of the injunction only fully paid shares could be used for voting, thus reducing the power of the board. During the summer Fergus McCann and his people had been busy. They had travelled far and wide to meet every shareholder they could, no matter how small their holding, and asked for permission to use their vote as a proxy. Thus they arrived at the AGM far stronger than the board ever expected.
In a true sign of the times around 70 people were in attendance at the AGM. Several hundred, meanwhile, were demonstrating outside. Although, in purely voting terms, the board remained in place after the meeting, they were alarmed by the unexpected show of strength for McCann.
Football. Remember Football? Connor's first game in charge was at home to Dundee the following day. Team matters seemed almost irrelevant, but it was worth noting that Irish winger Paul Byrne made his full debut (he had previously come on as a sub at Perth). Prior to the game was mayhem - outside the main entrance the stewards and had to make safe passage for the directors and there was a large demonstration with many fans having made large banners protesting at the way the club was being run (i.e. straight into the ground). Many of the banners were barbed references to Michael Kelly's time as Lord Provost of the city, when he championed the Glasgow's Miles Better campaign. 'Celtic's Miles Worse' was the gist of the message.
The game was played in front of a crowd of less than 17,000. Around 1,000 of these were Dundee fans. The rest sang nothing but 'Sack the board' for the duration of the game.
The match itself was an entertaining one - shock, horror and disbelief after some of the garbage we'd endured so far. Dundee took the lead after debut boy Byrne ran 60 yards to make a lousy tackle in the box, but thanks to fine headers from Creaney and McGinlay a league win was registered.
But really who noticed? We all knew that this season was already a wash out. The really important business of the season would take place in the boardroom.
The following game was played at Easter Road, and again Connor's bhoys had to come from behind, Gerry Creaney scoring with a spectacular shot from the edge of the box after a fine move involving McStay and Gillespie.
Two days later the Evening Times ran a story with the headline 'The Club I Love Could Die!'. Nice understated stuff. The originator of this quote? Kenny Dalglish, then manager of Blackburn.
Embarrassingly enough the next NTV asked the question 'What would we give for him as manager?' Oops. Careful what you wish for, you might get it!
Just to pile the misery on, Maurice Johnston returned to Scotland, although he had by now retired from football signing, as he did, for Hearts.
The next game for Frank Connor was the one that he will, surely, bore his grandchildren with forever. It was a UEFA Cup tie against Bobby Robson and Sporting Lisbon. On the face of it these two teams shouldn't have been on the same pitch, but Connor managed to convince his team that they could win. Specifically he told McStay to stop attempting to run the whole game from defence to attack, 'Just get your passes in' was his advice. The Maestro tore them to bits.
After the game Robson confessed that he'd been forced to put two markers on McStay in an attempt to stop him. Pity his team mates weren't good enough to take advantage of the space. We managed one goal, again from Creaney, but in the end Pat Bonner had more work than any one was comfortable with. The omens weren't good for the second leg.
Before our next fixture Lou Macari signed on as Celtic manager. Despite a modest turn around in results, and the backing of the dressing room (Peter Grant would later state that everyone in the dressing room would have had Connor for manager) the board felt that a grand gesture was needed to appease the fans. Apparently signing a man who walked out on the club as a player, was famous as a manager for his negative tactics, and had been charged with placing bets against his own team in the FA Cup was just the ticket.
To some he was, curiously, the ultimate hero, as the crowd at his testimonial in 1984 demonstrated. Others noted that he was the player picked out in the Campbell/Woods book 'The Glory and the Dream' as the perfect example of the mercenary footballer. He certainly liked to play to whatever crowd he was faced with; when Stoke had drawn Manchester United in the cup he had stated that United's was always the first result he looked for on a Saturday. Curiously, this story had changed by the time he became our manager.
At the press conference announcing his arrival he casually remarked that he hadn't asked the board how much money he would be allowed to spend on the team. Hacks stopped writing, tape recorders stopped recording, and several dozen jaws hit the floor in sheer astonishment.
Taken from NTV...
o1bhoy
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i think gordon has been given a tough hand. i think he has had us playing above our level for a while now. i don't think he's been able to buy the players he wants and has had to make do with a fairly mediocre bunch of players. there are many that gordon has little faith with but has had to try and get them through tough times. i agree that many feel he has made crucial mistakes in team selection and subs but gordon sees these players every day. i think the players availabe make it very hard for him.
other than boruc and mcgeady ( and occasionly the naka of last season) who do we have that would ever make it into a favourite celtic team. none of them cos they're mediocre
more or less that's it , i can't b bothered explaining more
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Long time technophobe =
long time lurking.
Scene : Fir Park away dressing room this afternoon 5 minutes before kick-off.
WGS: I am Gordon Strachan.
Aiden McGeady: Gordon Strachan is 7 feet tall.
WGS: Yes, I’ve heard. He kills men by the hundreds, and if he were
here he’d consume the Huns with fireballs from his eyes and bolts
of lightning from his arse.
I am Wee Gordon Strachan, and I see a whole army of my countrymen here in defiance of tyranny.
You have come to fight as free men, and free men you are.
What will you do without freedom? Will you fight?
Donati: Fight against that? No, we will run, and we will live.
WGS: Aye, fight and you may die, run and you’ll live. At least a while.
And dying in your beds many years from now, would you be willing to
trade all the days from this day to that for one chance, just one
chance to come back here and tell our enemies that they may take
our lives, but they’ll never take our freedom?!
Alba go bragh!
I'm just glad we don't need to go to Falkirk on the last day of the season
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welcome valebhoy
i enjoyed your first post.
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another thing, if gordon had a real choice in buying the players he wanted, do you really think he would have chosen the players he has ( other than naka and hinkel-inspired and boruc-luck, to find him first but quick thinking to get him signed up)
maybe s brown
i really think gordon has performed miracles with a very limited bunch of players.
he has made some mistakes but his hand is limited.
and please don't mention deeks as he has done nothing to merit a place
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Celtic Win Away in Europeb
Celtic in the 90s
Following Celtic's win at Aberdeen the team travelled to sun soaked Georgia (not the US state but the former Soviet republic that was in a complete state) to play Dinamo Batumi in the Cup Winners Cup. The social climate of the place was such that the phrase 'war torn' featured in almost every newspaper piece prior to the game. Fans were advised by the Foreign Office not to travel due to safety concerns. Chic Young was being encouraged by the fans to travel for the same reason. And so it was that we all missed the opportunity to see Celtic's first away victory in Europe for nine years - and that was against Shamrock Rovers. The last decent away win was 13 years previously in Amsterdam.
Now here's one of these occasions that really makes you feel the SFA doesn't like Celtic very much. We played Batumi on the Thursday, UEFA having split the tournaments up in order to maximise TV revenue; the UEFA cup would be played on Tuesday, Champions League on Wednesday and Cup Winners Cup on Thursday. Clearly the clubs playing in the Cup Winners Cup could be at disadvantage given that their fixture would only be two days away from the next league card. The journey back wasn't exactly a shuttle trip from London, the players only returning to Glasgow in the small hours of Saturday morning having been on the move for most of the previous day, yet Celtic were obliged to play a game against Motherwell. The club had asked for, and been refused, a delay of 24 hours in order to recover from the journey.
Despite everything, it all started off quite nicely. The fact that it was the first league game in the new stadium gave everyone a lift and O'Donnell scored a cracking goal, but by the last 20 minutes it was obvious that the players were dead on their feet. They conceded an equaliser and wound up hanging on for a point. Now, of course, it's standard for teams playing on a Thursday to have their games delayed to the Sunday, but this only came in to being after it had cost us a number of points. When it came to another team being hampered by these circumstances the league rules were immediately altered. Infuriating to say the least, although nothing compared to what lurked just over the horizon.
After we had slain the beast from Raith in the League Cup the draw had paired us with Rangers at Celtic Park. What a chance this was. Not only could we knock them out the cup and therefore have a great chance of the trophy, we could also make them fear Celtic Park again. The feeling was that we could certainly do it.
The lead up to the game, however, was anything but smooth. Basically, John Collins had decided that this was his last season in Scotland and given that the Bosman rule had just come into force the English clubs were hovering, hoping that Celtic would cash in on the player while they still could. Whilst the player himself seemed to be playing well through it all the fans' perception of him plummeted. If he was leaving we just hoped he'd go with more than one winners medal. Tuesday seemed like a good way to ensure that.
In the event a lot hinged on the man in the middle - Jim McCluskey. Already a hate figure amongst the Celtic Park faithful thanks to his lenient (to say the least) treatment of Hurlock in the early part of the decade he was about to cement his reputation as a less than fair referee.
The game started well from our point of view. McStay was clearly charged up for it and we had the most of the play. Midway through the first half the Maestro picked up the ball and twisted away from Gasciogne who gave chase. First he gave a tug on McStay's shirt before forcing his left arm over the Celtic player's shoulder and elbowing him in the face. The referee immediately blew the whistle, awarded the free kick to Celtic and approached the Englishman. But rather than show a red card (the rule book punishment for such an infraction) he let him off with a ''Quick word in the ear.''
One player who did wind up in the ref's book was Charlie Miller. He also managed to commit another 5 to 10 fouls during the remainder of the game but remained on the park. McCoist, too, got himself involved in an incident that had nothing to do with him (even running some 25 yards to get amongst it and attempting to head butt a Celtic player). No punishment. Can you guess which three huns combined to score the only goal of the game?
As if that wasn't bad enough Goram had one of those nights where nothing was going to get past him. With any other keeper on the park McStay would have had a hat trick. To round off a thoroughly terrible evening Andreas Thom injured himself making a rash tackle and had to be stretchered off. It was hard to take, especially just as we were beginning to look like a team again. Final score, 1:0 to Rangers.
Before the next league game the Collins saga really blew up. Middlesborough were the most interested team (it would have been a real blow to the ego if he'd gone there) but they were keeping their powder dry for now. Tommy Burns, on the other hand, was not so patient. Infuriated by what he considered to be a media campaign orchestrated by Collins' agent he dropped him for the trip to Hearts. Tynecastle hadn't exactly been a happy hunting ground for us in recent seasons ( then again where had?) but we seemed to be making life especially difficult for ourselves with Collins dropped and Pierre and Thom out injured. In place of these players came Brian McLaughlin, Chris Hay and Andy Walker.
This game again illustrated how far we had come since the previous season as we took Hearts to bits. We were two ahead within 10 minutes, both goals coming from an unlikely source in the tiny shape of wee Brian McLaughlin. First he mopped up after the keeper had failed to hold a McStay shot from the edge of the box and then scored a real beauty. Gathering the ball at the halfway line he ran straight through the Hearts defence, even nutmegging Dave McPherson before clipping the ball over the goalie. In the second half Walker added another two and real gubbing had been handed out. Literally as well, as Peter Grant was sent off for throwing a punch instead of a point.
Following the game TB gave an interview to Gerry McNee explaining his position on the John Collins situation; typically it was full of passion for the club and a complete disbelief that someone could want to play elsewhere.
The second round of our European tie with Dinamo Batumi was an enjoyable experience. Four goals were slotted past the Georgians as we went through 7:2 on aggregate, with the stars of the show being Simon Donnelly (who scored a fabulous long range effort) and Brian McLaughlin (who set up Thom for the opening two goals). It set us up nicely for the weekend when we had the chance for revenge on Rangers at Celtic Park.
But this time we had no complaints as we meekly went down 2:0. Hell, we even let Alec Clelland score. Gasbag scored the second.
Despondency about that result quickly evaporated after the draw for the next round of the Cup Winners Cup. We were drawn against Paris Saint Germain, at that time one the form teams in Europe. In the previous two seasons they had reached the semi final of both the UEFA Cup and the Champions League. They had lost two of their top players (Ginola we've already discussed and George Weah who joined AC Milan), but they were still a formidable outfit.
Nationally the Scottish game was getting a lot of coverage, not just thanks to the Sky deal. The arrival of Gasbag across the way had turned the spotlight to the perceived sectarian divide in Glasgow (can't be too much of a divide really; Celtic had supporters from all faiths and colours. Rangers... well what can you say?). Channel 4's take on the matter was a documentary called 'Football, Faith and Flutes'. It wasn't really designed to alter anyone's preconceived ideas about Glasgow and its residents who watch either of the big two. The Celtic fan featured was such a committed supporter that he watched the games on Sky in his local pub and spouted out absurdities like 'I'm Catholic, I have to hate Protestants,' while the featured hun had a home made tattoo on his inside lip and simply regurgitated things he'd obviously heard in his local lodge. Cutting edge journalism it wasn't.
The managerial response to the Rangers defeat was positive at least; Jackie McNamara Jnr. was bought from Dunfermline for £650,000, a fabulous piece of business. He immediately slotted in a right back and looked as though he'd been a Celtic player for years. In particular he struck up a great partnership with Simon Donnelly, who had been playing on the right hand side of midfield now that Thom and Pierre had taken the front two positions. Jackie made his debut at Brockville (oh the glamour of the top division), but he wasn't the star of the show on the night. That honour went to John Hughes, returning for the first time to the ground where he made his name. Typically he scored the only goal of the game to win a hard fought three points.
The following Saturday we Finally won a Glasgow derby, although it was only against Thistle and it wasn't exactly an entirely convincing 2:1 win. Pierre scored the first after neat play from Donnelly and Collins wrapped up the game with a nice free-kick, although Thistle did cause some tension by scoring just before the end. Truth be told it could have been pretty grim if Thistle's new Liverpudlian forward Rod McDonald hadn't been the worst finisher since Jim Melrose. Twice he was left with only the goalie to beat, twice the wee boys of Barrowfield had a nice shiny ball to play with.
Rod (who had already been 'outed' as a Celtic supporter in the press when it was revealed that King Kenny had been his hero as a kid so naturally he preferred Celtic) would go on to book his own place in football history that season when Thistle took on Rangers at Firhill; As the players made their way into the dressing room Rod, as was his wont, CROSSED himself as he left the pitch. So far so normal, happens in most countries week in week out. However, a hun in the crowd saw this and went mental (so far so normal) complaining to a policeman. And here's where it gets really wacky. The Policeman actually takes this loony seriously and goes to the referee's room with this complaint. The referee then calls McDonald into the dressing room and awards him a Yellow card!!! Not only that but in the second half Rod fouls Gasbag, gets a second yellow and hence a red, to the confusion of everyone in the crowd (except the Neanderthal who started the whole thing). Now whenever there was an incident of some kind at a football game in Scotland that wasn't too nice, crowd trouble that kind of thing, the pundits would bemoan the fact that this event would be broadcast all over the world and bring shame on to the game. Ordinarily of course they are talking complete cobblers, (do the good people of Lima really care if there was a fight at Pitoddrie?) but you'd better believe that the world's press was most interested in the backwards wee country at the northern end of Europe where the Refs book you for CROSSING yourself and the national association sides with the ref. That did catch the eye of the footballing world. Couldn't make it up could you? Of course it goes without saying that when Rod was dismissed the game was tied 1:1 and Rangers ran out 2:1 winners against the ten Thistle men who were sure to keep their superstitions and rituals well to themselves from then on. The MIB on that shameful occasion was Jim McGilvray. He retired shortly afterwards on the pretext that SFA regulations were cramping his style, but later admitted to the Scottish Sun that Gasbag should indeed have been sent from the field that afternoon but he didn't want to be the first to do it and thereby 'start a riot'. Celtic's paranoia right enough!
Back at Celtic Park we were about to royally shoot ourselves in the foot against Hibs. We murdered them. A team has rarely been so outplayed. They barely touched the ball. Except, of course, on the two occasions when they scored (they had a grand total of three shots during the entire game). It was galling. Celtic's football couldn't be faulted but rather than play a final pass we seemed to prefer making another pretty passing pattern.
With Rangers sitting on top of the league and PSG looming large on the horizon we had to start getting a bit more clinical.
Taken fromNTV...
o1bhoy
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Sylla...
Many thanks for your reply.
Shooting off on a tangent.
I have fond memories of Sylla for one reason.
Like yourself I'm sure, I was at the UEFA Cup second leg against Valencia at Paradise.
If memory serves me correctly it was the hardest possible draw we could have got after losing out on qualification to the next phase of the Champions League despite beating Juventus on the last night.
Anywho, Valencia, despite being described as the Aberdeen of Europe (Ebbe Skovdahl era) by the experts in the Scottish media two seasons previously, confounded critics, well in Scotland anyway, by appearing in the next two Champions League finals.
Celtic had played well in the Metsalla, and managed to come away with a respectable 1-0 defeat with a certain Big Rab being singled out as man of the match (SHOckeroonie)
Of course, Valencia were oozing quality, (I think Mendieta probably had left by this point) but they still had the boy Gonzalez up front and a certain animal at the back - Carboni.
You will all realise by now, that this is a long winded version of this story, but I recall with great delight Momo coming on in extra time at the end of an epic European night and going into a 50-50 with Carboni and doing him!
Nae kidding!
Carboni was raging, so were all his team mates.
Sylla was having a wee laugh to hiMself and so were Lennon and all the other winners we had at the time.
Moral of the story - we need to get a winning mentality back in there. Strong characters - winners.
BACK OFF THE SOAP BOX
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Morning ghuys and ghals -
I know some of the lurkers have been enjhoying the beer reviews so here are two exotic ales from yesterday's session -
NAMYSLOW ORIGINAL PLUM BEER 4.0% ABV
Brower Namyslow, Poland ESt. 1321
Had to do a double-take wi the name, thought it was McManyslow. The brewery in question is one of the oldest in Europe.
The programme blurb:
With a light ruby colour, this unusual beer has a distinctive character. Its pleasing, sweet and aromatic flavour is balanced by a gentle bitterness.
This ale is where a traditional English mild meets super-charged Vimto. I really can't say much more. Very sweet, I bookended the session on this stuff but not one you could drink exclusively all night.
The next one fitted in nicely wi yesterday's brassiere debate:
ECAUSSINNES COOKIE BEER 5.% ABV
Brasserie d'Ecaussines, Belgium Est. 1999
The programme blurb:
This light amber, top-fermenting ale is brewed using Kentish [Goldings - WG] hops and Pilsener malt and then flavoured with ginger and cinnamon, from the Belgian cookies added, to create a truly impressive beer.
This was the one I'd been waiting for but the travel was better than the destination. I expected my tastebuds to take a doing but, whilst never bland, the ginger and cinnamon was understated and a third of the way through the pint a memory. I had another one before returning to Pedigree 6 and finishing with the plumb number.
One of the Teser's duty managers gave me a list of the forty ales they had selected from the Festival Fifty. By my reckoning, going into the final two days, we have nine remaining in the cellar.
An extension is therefore INEVITABLE !
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Quiet here, pre-match nervosity ?
Dontbratt -
pablo should be in ML2 around noon. I'm free anytime.
JohnInmanCSC
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Two additions to the list of U2_1988:
1. How could Celtic expect to win by two goals in Barcelona with one forward?
2 In the same match, I still cannot fathom under what combination of circumstances Steven Pressley would be have been used as a substitute.
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Clinton Woods has as much bottle and self belief as most of the current Celtic team
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WG
good morning
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pfayr -
good morning to you sir, are you bound for The Motherland ?
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As always the level of debate on this site is excellent even when discecting the pain of our current situation.
However let me make two conscise points.
Firstly, the majority of supporters will back the manager and the team until the (bitter) end.
Secondly, the manager will go in the summer whether by force or by choice. The jury have made their mind up and the verdict is guilty.
The prospect of 10,000 unsold season books and the lost revenue will prompt the suits to act.
For my own mind I have no sympathy. Had WGS built bridges during the good times them there would be a reserve of goodwill form to fall back on. As it is there is none because he made no attempt to give any in the first place.
These last few days have found him floundering in the papers issuing stats and more stats to anyone who would listen.
Just as patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel in this footballing example it is stats that is his last refuge.
He goes.
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3 points today Gordon with style, pls (oh and also 3 goals for the bhoys). Prove the doubters wrong. Show us you can make team changes, formation changes!! Do you still have the dressing room on your side? The attitude of the players will be big here today. Anymore dropped points and poor performances really means your desk is moving closer to the door (and if you have not listened over the last couple of weeks or opened your eyes, it really is deserved!)
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celticrollercoaster,
He hasn't changed formation for 3 seasons, what makes you think he'll change now ?
A striker for a striker, midfielder for a midfielder.
Deckchairs, Titanic, anyone ?
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celticrollercoaster,
He hasn't changed formation for 3 seasons, what makes you think he'll change now ?
A striker for a striker, midfielder for a midfielder.
Deckchairs, Titanic, anyone ?
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Forty-Five Years Ago Today
Scottish Cup Semi-Final
Celtic 5 Raith Rovers 2
1-0 Divers (10)
1-1 McDonald (16)
1-1 HT
2-1 McKay (51pen)
3-1 McKay (57pen)
3-2 Gilfillan (64)
4-2 Chalmers (70)
5-2 Brogan (84)
Att - 35,681
Bhoys :-
Haffey, McKay, O'Neill, McNamee, McNeill, Price;
Chalmers, Murdoch, Divers, Gallagher, Brogan.
From The Celtic Football Companion:
"Only when McKay scored with two penalties in the space of 6 minutes in the second half did Celtic fully imprint their personality on a game devoid of excitement and finesse. Celtic should surely have put the game beyond doubt by the interval but for wanton disregard of their opportunities."
Plus ca change.....
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Syllawhowasmince.
Your asseration that he is unable to buy the players he wants is propbably true.
It is the same for every manager ,but a select few.
You are also correct you point out that we have a lot of mediocre players.
Here's the rub.
We still should be capable of beating Hearts and Aberdeen in home cup ties.
We still should be capable of beating a 10 man Motherwell at home.
We still should be capable of scoring atleast one goal in four OF fixtures.
He has had more resources available to him than his domestic competitors.
He is failing ,and by quite some margin.
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Forty Years Ago Today
Scottish First Division
Celtic 5 Dundee 2
1-0 Lennox (4)
2-0 Hughes (9)
3-0 Stewart OG (18)
3-1 Scott (38)
3-1 HT
4-1 Hughes (53)
5-1 Lennox (58)
5-2 G McLean (64)
Att- 41,500
BELOVED :-
Simpson, Craig, Gemmell, Murdoch, McNeill, Brogan;
Johnstone, Lennox, Wallace, Gallagher, Hughes.
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i hope Riordan stays with Celtic for 5 more years and never plays, because like Bobo, the longer he doesnt play the better he is.
Theres no myth to Riordan not getting a game, there are a few reasons, some are facts some are opinions, and the main two can be found clearly in what he bleated to the newspapers the other day. Bleating incidentally for which he should never get near the first team again. To complain is one thing, to do it publicly at a time where we have the slimmest of chances of getting our 3rd league title on the bounce.
Riordan doesnt play because:
1. Gordon expects his attacking players to defend. Aiden learned this and has improved immensely under Gordons reign. Derek Riordan doesnt think this is part of his job.
2. He has a dreadful attitude with a huge ego.
that is all. Its not voodoo.
Singing one Derek Riordan can only be explained in one of two ways:
1. You want to sing it because hes such a great player, when has he shown this for the reserves?
2. You want to sing it because it undermines the manager you dont like, even though by definition this will undermine the team. Shameful.
Heres to 3 points, a few goals and a bit of optimism before playing tfod.
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St Anthony
I know, it's called blind optimism before the game. Anyway, I was just talking to your cousin, St Jude and she assured me today that there would be changes.
Either that or a lost cause!!!
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On this day 1977.....
Motherwell 3-0 Celtic
Celts only needed a point to win the league and the unfortunate Andy Lynch scored 2 own goals.
We therefore had to wait until the next game and clinch it at Easter Road with a1-0 win against Hibs, Joe Craig having his moment of glory.
Mind you Lynch's day in the sun was to come three weeks later.
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1977 team
Baines, McGrain, Lynch, Stanton, Edvaldsson, Aitken;
Conn, Glavin, Craig, Dalglish Burns.
Att - 13,820
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St Ant
I was at that game hoping as a wee kid to see us win the league(may be my first memory of becoming league champions.
Lynch's goals were amazing. I am sure he lobbed Roy Baines (yes now there's a name from the past!) with a deft chip and the other rocketed off his knee. Poor Baines never had a chance!
So if McGhee picks Baines for his keeper and we have wee Lynch up front we will be okay for the 3pts!!
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James Forrest at 20.57 12/04/08
Only saw your reply this morning.
I’ll accept your point but suggest you’re playing semantics. I felt you implied you were speaking for fans collectively and you seem to repeat that when you say “I am glad you feel the manager has respect for the fans, and I hope you are right. A growing number think his time is up.” Clearly you are linking his time being up with a lack of respect for the fans. Please don’t try to excuse the bully boy expressions of “Strachan GTF” with anything like similar provocation by Gordon Strachan. The people who mouthed those obscenities are well worthy of a Kestrel and Devil Dogs description. They wouldn't know respect if the devil dog got up and bit them. All in my humble opinion of course.
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i hope naylor,naka and skippy are dropped.
it is going to be tough today, we need to be strong.
wilson in
sno and hartley in the middle
robson on the left
mcgeady on the right
jan and sammy up front
jan first goal celtic 2 nil
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WG...
I was at that Raith Rovers semi final and it was played at Ibrox.
Rangers also won their semi final 5-2 (v Dundee United at Hampden)that day too.
However, the day will do down in infamy as the date on which a certain Maurice Judas Johnston came into the world.
Odd that CELTIC were playing at IBROX that day with the home team nowhere to be seen.
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If'd I'd had thousands of people singing, "Hazy GTF" I'd probably be pretty rude about them too (although they'd probably have a point!).
Don't really have a problem with that - it's back to the take-it-if-you-dish-it-out thing.
What I will have a problem with is if we see the same team line-up this week as last. My heart just sank when I heard the team sheet. It was all so predictable - the team, the performance, the result.
To be honest though, I'm on a knife-edge in terms of my opinion of Gordon at the moment. Half of me says that his previous two seasons have earned him a crack at redeeming himself next year.
But isn't that what he's been doing with this team? - giving them a chance to right the wrongs - and look where that's got us.
I finally uttered the words "Strachan must go" last week but that was in the aftermath of the game when all was black.
Title or, more likely, no title, the next few of games are all important. I think Gordon has a chance of being here next year but he sure as heck needs to start showing us why.
Starting today.
Mothers 0 Celtic 6 (Samaras (3); Boruc (3))
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I'll be off to ML2 by noon.
I'll text Winning Gemmell and try to guess the secret phrase that allows you entry intae the Wishaw Clique.
Front running guess so far is "I'm paying."
Suggest a new song for today's match:-
Me and you and a Devil-Dug named Boo"
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Gordon/SFTB -
cheers ghuys, must get this show on the road - hope we get a fair crack of the whip from Mothers Little Helper
Hail Hail
WG
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WG
not today
even i am not allowed to drink and drive
BTW
i should not be driving anywhere at this time
late night /early morning watching the boxing
4 hours sleep and way too much brandy
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At 13/04/08 10:38, tinytim said…
We are capable of all the things you listed - we simply haven't managed it in reality.
For the record, I agree with you that WGS is failing, as is his coaching team, the players, the board and, dare I say, the support. Our primary aim is to win the SPL and at this point in time that objective looks unlikely. None of the aforementioned parties can claim to have succeeded if we lose the league and given the atmosphere at Celtic Park I would suggest that the supporters have been one of the biggest disappointments this season.
By the way, does your boss threaten to fire you every time you fail to meet your objectives? Or does he sit down with you to work out went wrong and put together a plan for getting back on track? Reagardless, which of these two approaches represents a better approach to management?
If WGS does not feel up to leading Celtic into next season, or the board feels that he is not the best person to lead Celtic, then it will be time to appoint a new manager. Until then, by any measure, he has done enough in the past three years to merit one more season at the helm. Of course, continued failure to achieve objectives would place his job in jeopardy just as it would for both you and me.
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Paul67,
If Samaras and Robson don't start i actually think Gordon want's someone to make the decision for him to walk:)
Seriously though, Wilson and Balde or O'Dea should also be included.
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Has Derek Riordan ever played a good game for the Celtic first team? Ahgainst Hibs over Christmas he was dreadful and I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would be supporting his inclusion in our first team line-up.
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Please everyone
Currently we have a championship to play for which though unlikely is not impossible to win but perhaps more importantly we have two matches against Rangers where it is essential that we put down a marker for next season. Both issues demand that the Celtic team has a concerted, united, unreserved, unequivocal support behind it, a support worthy of those green and white jerseys, a support aware of the history and tradition of a group who do not lie down willingly and have their tummy tickled.
I ask the Celtic support to demonstrate unity in the face of adversity and suggest that the best possible way of beginning that process is by showing some respect for the Celtic manager, whoever he may be.
Whatever anyone thinks of Gordon Strachan accept please that until these issues are decided anything less than 100% support for everyone associated with the club is not support for Celtic. The psychological impact of constantly feeding this "We don't like Strachan" mindset will impact on your support for the team. That's human nature. Put it behind you and support the team till the issues are decided. Whoever is picked they're reppresenting Celtic. That means they deserve concerted, united, unreserved, unequivocal support. Let's give it to them
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WG
Myspace message for you.
cheers
U
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Roberto Matinez for Celtic
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WGS
with BBJ as assistant manager
BTW
agree with you on WGS selection front
his performance last week was like a pee`d off employee wanting the sack
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regarding riordan, gordon strachan might have said he was the best finisher, but that doesnt necessarily make him a good player. kris boyd is arguably rangers' best finisher, but he only plays against gretna and dundee utd. he's benched for the remainder of the games, coming on for last 10mins if rangers need a goal. it's generally considered that boyd isnt a great player either. but boyd, for all his faults, does not go to the press and say "walter smith is talking rubbish"...
riordan shouldnt be considered for celtic first 11 or indeed the bench. best finisher or not, he's not the type of character we need right now.
with regards formations, 4-4-2 is the best formation known in football. it is the most attacking, while allowing defensive stability/cover.
celtic play with attacking, overlapping fullbacks meaning at any one time we can have 2x fullbacks, 4x midfielders and 2x attackers attacking the opposition goal. that's 8 of the 10 outfield players attacking the goal. in times of defence, the full backs, centre halves and midfielders mean you have 8 players available for defending.
playing 3-5-2 means you always have 3 defenders defending, reducing the attacking options by one. the wide players are akin to fullbacks therefore while we would have 7 attackers (2x strikers, 3x midfielders, 2x fullbacks) we'd also just as defensive with 3x centre-halves, 2x fullbacks, 3x midfielders = 8 players.
so, what would you use? a formation that allows 7 attackers and 8 defenders, or the one we're using now, which allows 8 attackers and 8 defenders?
it's scoring goals that's our problem. if we score 5, then who really cares about the one the opposition score from their one shot? gordon strachan, in my opinion, is playing the perfect formation for an attacking team (excluding a 1-0-9 formation, of course)
support celtic, support the players, support the manager.
we're gonna win the league.
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Pfyar,
The team today should be
Boruc
Hinkel
Balde
McManus
Wilson
Hartley
Robson
McGeady
Nakamura( be tempted though to put GC in the centre with Hartley Robson on the left and McGeady on the right.
Samaras
McDonald
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ian in budapest
thank you for your comment on the last thread
i did read what you said, and was able to understand that in terms of bigotry you mentioned that there was a specific differentiation, between both sets of support.
some celtic fans however, feel increasingly uncomfortable with the ecumenical shepherding of both sets of fans, this coming together of convenience, labelling or branding, weighs much more heavily on celtic football club, than it does on our neighbours.
for example some of my english friends that thought that 'celtic only signed footballers of one particular religion' i.e. catholics, you know the kind of things i mean.
regardless of context we may well all be 'jock thamsons bairns' in the clear evening sky over budapest, but back home at the business end with the marching season approaching, a probable rangers treble, and potential quadruple it doesn't always feel that way.
ironically in between reading CQN, I took the dog a walk and en route could here "hallo hallo" being bellowed into the Glasgow air, fortunately a good half mile from my chosen doggy walkers path and my own particular fenian blood. make no mistake In the main part, they hate us much more than words could ever express, anywhere, let alone on this good site, and to say I hate them as much, is offensive, to me and the Celtic ethos 'in the main part'. if you find their hatred the same as our hatred of them, then you are looking in a warped mirror.
you tell us that celtic as a club and the directors are responsible for leaving behind
our old ways, i was convinced our manifesto was crystal clear in 1888 our declarations and brother walfrid's intentions were unequivocal, and impossible to
misunderstand. i am also pretty sure that since then the celtic support have stuck with it again 'in the main part'
your post is like many other posts on this site, to chastise celtic fans who have a different opinion from you. likening them to the rangers support was below the belt, beyond the pale, not the popular view and in my opinion grossly unfair.
the original subject for your post, the present debate and widely held views on the suitability, competence and credibility of the present head coach is valid, not only on celtic quick news but everywhere there is a gathering of more than one celtic fan. however, depending on that view and how it is demonstrated regardless of content if its negative in relation to GS it more often than not, becomes in the eyes of other celtic fans 'abuse'. then we have more opinion and certain other posters pitch in with condescending, systematic abuse of the original implied abuser, and so on.
hail hail
p.s. i agree with your latest comment on derek riordan, opinions eh.
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madeira bhoy
you are corrct re Riordan`s performances at times when he has gotten into the team
however WGS has two sets of standards for players
1.... a very forgiving standard for those he likes...i`m afraid personally
2.... a very unforgiving set for those he doesn`t
how else can one explain why Donati/Naylor and Caldwell have had so many games
whereas
BB /Riordan and previously Tommy G
have been marginalised
Favouritism is a very bad trait in a manager
anyway
no more infighting today
there is a game to be won
HAIL HAIL
STAND UP FOR THE CHAMPIONS
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Pfyar,
Steven Pinnear stalling on making his move from Dortmund on loan. Celtic just missed out on him when he decided to go to Dortmund instead of us. If i was GS i would go for him again.
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and now for my opinion on bobo and o'dea...
playing 4-4-2 and bobo, therefore making him accountable for 50% of the central defensive unit is far too much for a player who is too one dimensional. we've seen him win a tackle, then backheel it straight to novo. we've seen him win a header then wander forward watching the ball only to see it fire straight back over his head. he's too erratic and unrealiable. he'd need another 2x CBs to cover him (see my arguement for not playin 3-5-2).
regarding darren o'dea. everybody at celtic loves him. everybody in home farm (my local team) still love him. he rips the pee out of everyone, he loves to wind people up and that his mouth never stops. but everybody to a man and team mate will tell you that when he steps onto the field, his mouths firmly shuts and barely opens for 90mins. he's so quiet on the field, that his team mates often dont know where he is. that's not a great thing for a fellow CB to be feeling as he has attackers running at him. no one doubts his talent, but if a player who accounts for 50% of the defensive unit goes "missing" in the eyes and minds of team mates, then that's too great a risk. for all caldwell's faults, at least you know he's playing!!
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WGS
I agree but would also drop McManus
the defencive triumverate of he /GC/LN have been awful lately
won £50 quid at the bookies yesterday...
bet you that £50 that they all play
and you can add to the mix Donati
i have never been waiting on a Celtic team selection with as much trepidation in my life
a repeat of last week with the exception of SB and he is looking for his P45
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WGS
your namesake is not to betrusted siging anymore players
wouldn`t give him my son`s pocket money to spend
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Dub Tim,
I would rather have quiet effective defender than a rent a quote, i want interviews with the papers at every opprotunity in effective defender sorry defenders.
Mark my words the vultures for O'Dea are circulating. The next Shay Given is about to be witnessed.
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At 13/04/08 11:52, pfayr said…
madeira bhoy
you are corrct re Riordan`s performances at times when he has gotten into the team
however WGS has two sets of standards for players
1.... a very forgiving standard for those he likes...i`m afraid personally
2.... a very unforgiving set for those he doesn`t
how else can one explain why Donati/Naylor and Caldwell have had so many games
whereas
BB /Riordan and previously Tommy G
have been marginalised
Favouritism is a very bad trait in a manager
Or maybe,
however WGS has two sets of standards for players
1.... a very forgiving standard for those who train hard and try to improve
2.... a very unforgiving set for those who dont.
Which would normally be considered sensible management.
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I think I agree re team selection today vis a vis GS's stubborness. Every manager has blind spots - good/great managers can rise above these when the chips are down.
I begin to wonder if there is a marked difference between picking the team that will do the job for you OR picking the team you HOPE will do the job for you.
U
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dub tim
even as a confirmed GC malcontent i have to agree he is far from our worsed player right now
however your summation of BB/DO`D may be correct but surely they must be better than "hinge and bracket "
-
uly
i hope we have a better spectical to enjoy than last week
still depressed about it despite your excellent company
my mind has wandered back to it through this week ..as you said "mystified "
BTW still mystified
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madeira bhoy
hard trainers don`t necessarily make good players
and bad trainers don`t necessarily make bad players
it`s what is done on the park that counts and his hard training favourites are not doing right now
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wgs,
o'dea will be at celtic for a very, very long time. he doesnt want to go anywhere and no-one at celtic want him going anywhere. he is coming out of his shell and learning. he's still young enough, but should we have players still learning the basics of their trade in front of 60,000 people, where one mistake, especially this season, will set him back years in terms of confidence and development?
gary caldwell is a plyer i like. and strachan likes him too. he does on the field what strachan tells him to do. if my boss told me to do x, y & z and i did that, he'd be happy with me. if i did a, b & c (which is what gravesen was doing) then he'd be mighty hacked off. that's why caldwell is playing.
and as for mcmanus, the guy is trying his best. he takes knocks, physically and verbally, but he dusts himself down and goes about his business as normal.
strachan once said of mcmanus that you would not guess he was the inexperienced, young defender such was the way he talked experienced defenders through a match. mcmanus, as opposed to o'dea, never shuts up during a match. watch him today, he's forever tlaking, encouraging and cajoling.
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dub-tim;
It's amazing how many of us differ in our opoinions on certain players and what they bring to the team: That's what makes it all so interesting.
Bobo may well be becoming a better player with every passing week he DOESN'T play, but cmon you make Caldwell \ McManus sound like worldbeaters and Bobo a prize clown....."he's too erratic and unrealiable".
The big guy wins headers where neither Caldwell nor Mick would dare put there head in and whilst yeah he does not pass like McStay in his prime, show me what Caldwell or Mick are doing right now that make you think they are so superior. A'deen \ Mwell \ Gers they gift goals as well as Bobo could...
Interestingly Bobo's return saw our first away clean sheet to end that awful away run was with Bobo playing?!?
Sorry mate but all the CB's we have are all flawed in some way or other but I'd rather play BOBO right now for his sheer presence and drive than the present incumbants who are imposters. Mick is never a captain and that's shown week in week out when assaults on Aiden are unchallenged by him (just watch Bazza down Ipox way for what he brings as a captain...aherm...I'll now go wash my mouth out with soap)
O'dea? give the guy a proper run of games before slating him.....stepping into the celtic 1st eleven might just rendor most of us speechless until we're fully accustomed to the pressures that come with the job and realise what it takes....I've seen the young fella give mouthfulls of verbals to other players at times when the've deserved it, so he has a gob, it's armed and know doubt he's able to use it.
I'm sure others will agree \ disagree with both our thoughts but how Mick \ Caldwell are revered by some is an absolute mystery to me.......
Today we all get 1million % behind teeh team and hope we can get some momentum going and make TFOD earn the title the hard way .....if they can!!
hail hail
M'well 1 Good guys 2
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I was hearing rumours about Mark Schwarzer as a potential goalkeeper. If that's the case then no more funds.
Never really like Schwarzer as he mkes some clangers. I just seen the one against Spurs yesterday.
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PF - I know, and we both knew that the Sunday's result was going to happen before it did which made it all the more harder to bear.
I think your £50 is safe although I hope it's not.
Off to visit my mum's before the game - will check in later.
U.
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Let's not pussy foot here.
Depending on team selection and result, we may be without a manager this evening. He must start with Samaras and we MUST win. I'm off to the game.
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wgs
agree, on schwarzer who has already stated publicly
that he has discussed an offer from celtic, but is yet to decide.
makes magnus hedman look world class
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the debate about extending the league should be opposed vehemently by Celtic.
In 1919-20.Celtic took part in a ten game extravaganza in April,here are the dates and scores.
April-3rd St Mirren 2-0.
April-5th Partick th 2-1.
April 10th Aberdeen 5-0.
April 14th Albion R 5-0.
April 17th Motherwell 0-0.
April 19th hibernian 2-1.
April 22nd St Mirren 2-2.
April 24th ayr utd 4-0.
April 26th Dundee 1-1.
April 28th Airdrie 1-0.
Celtic played 10 Games in 26 days,an average of a game every 2.6 days.
I don't know if thats a record for Celtic,but it should be.
If Celtic can do it ,surely others can.
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pj dali,
i'm not saying that caldwell and mcmanus are world beaters or that neither are flawed. all i'm trying to argue is that of all our centre backs they are the ones who can be most trusted in those positions.
i know bobo played in the clean sheet away from home, but it wasnt a one man performance. nor has he played in any of the clean sheets since; the defence with the best defensive record in the league.
caldwell is the best passer of the ball (short, mid, long range passing) of all our CBs. and he actually can defend as well. unless we want bobo lumping the ball aimlessly out the park, surely having someone such as caldwell is a better option?
mcmanus talks and supports his team mates through the game. he can tackle and he does stick his head in where it hurts. the scars will testify to that. neither bobo nor o'dea do that. pressley does, but he's finished.
in my opinion, mcmanus and caldwell are the two best players for their respective positions.
if we had john terry and jamie carragher and caldwell and mcmanus were playing, then i'd agree with you and question why they are playing. but we dont have those players. the two best we do have are playing.
of course, this all just my opinion.
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i meant neither bobo or darren talk their team mates through games, i know they tackle / head the ball... was getting carried away with myself!
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Re Mc Manus I watched the Ibrox game on Setanta when they had Terry Butcher on. He was extremely effusive in his praise for Mc Manus and particularly liked his will to win. Since he'd just spent the week with him with Scotland and since George Burley had made him captain it made me wonder again about opinions when we read what's often written here about him.
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I haven't been here for a while and therefore don't know the context but I am staggered to find a debate about the inclusion of Drek Riordan. Any arguments about his qualities are irrelevant in my view. His press utterances last week, at a time when the club and the manager were vulnerable, revealed him as a snivelling coward. I understand he is now training with the youths and while that is probably the best place for him I hope he is ostracised even in that company. If his stunt was to force a move then I believe his actions have guaranteed that only the rock bottom or truly desperate will come in for him now. All this for a guy who was not a regular starter for Hibs under their last two managers!
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Mark Schwarzer ???
Dear God, someone tell me that's a joke ........
30+ players signed by this guy already in three seasons, and the vast majority of them useless. What's it going to take? Forty plus signings? Fifty? How long until the people defending this guy say enough is enough?
Last night I kept it reasonably civil, and reasonably rational. Now my every sense is screaming that he is dragging us down.
How much further down do we need to get?
I'm told that George Boeteng, who was recently linked with a move to Celtic (at 32), has been on TV or radio today slagging Strachan's management style.
I guess that rules HIM out, then!
If Schwarzer is representative of the "building" for next season this man is preparing for then SURELY the writing is on the wall.
He has to go. Soon.
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dub-tim;
appreciate the reply and agree each of us has our own expectations of players (as does our manager...)
BUT I don't think Caldwell is the passer some make him out to be.....of the two I recall Mick pinging a long ball for McDonald many games ago and he's done that a few times (not enough accurately though).....something I've never witnessed Caldwell doing as he's too often down the flanks giving the ball away cheaply.....
Mick for me claps his way through a game and does not support his team verbally in making sure the ref' knows EVERYTHING is questioned \ debated by our club captain. Lenny was what a captain should be loud and proud!!
I guess we'll agree to differ.
That's what makes it the beautiful game and why beer was invented to allow us to talk long into the night ( early afternoon) to convince ourselves we are better football managers than those in the job :-)
N-joy the game mate and may the good guys win......
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Dub-Tim,
Either you are posting as Gordon or you know something we don't.
Quite scary to think that given what's happening to our team that you acutally think we could win anything with these two at the back. Artur Boruc being behind them has stopped even more criticism of the two.
If it wasn't for Boruc then they two wouldn't be able to get out of bed in the morning. Think December showed what the defence would be like without Artur.
Think it's time Gordon started to listen to his keeper on where it's going wrong at the back. It's down the left side where Mick and Lee play.
I'll actually give you something on Caldwell. Out of him and Mick i would probably go with him. He's does organise quite a bit, and having watched him closley he tends to cover his partner at the back rather than concentrate on his own area and game. Covers McManus big time. Big Mick's positioning is highly dodgy sometimes.
In the end of though i would still maintain two new centre backs will need to be bought or one plus give Darren a cahnce to make the position his own. Everybody else has been giving their chance.
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No Scott Brown today - let's hope that makes a positve difference!
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james forrest et al,
dont believe what's in the press with regards potential signings. it suits the press to link us with less illustrious players and rangers with world beaters.
already this season we have been linked with geoff horsfield while rangers were linked with pizzaro. both eaqually unlikely.
come the end of the season, and if strachan's still at the helm, i expect us to be linked, in the press, with burnley, watford and carlisle players, while rangers will be linked with the cream of europe. remeber, the signing of jarosik came out the blue. there was no "exclusive" story 3wks prior.
i dont believe the schwarzer story any more than then i believe rangers will sign schevchenko.
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Can anyone please confirm what George Boateng said about Mr Strachan?
He was on Sky sports this morning,on the goals on Sunday show.
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I'm going to give up reading this blog, so many of the contributers are desperate for Celtic to fail just so they can say "I told you so." It brings me and my team down.
How can they complain about the manager and players' attitude when they themselves are quitters with a serious bad atttude towards those that represent us?
There's still a league to compete for, 'support'ers should be the provervial 12th man. Customers on the other hand can always take their business elsewhere.
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dub tim
all the exclusive rangers signing stories are always wrong
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just read comments from GS regarding our recent performances.
plenty of shots at goal...eh?
winning plenty of tackles...eh?
winning lots of headers...eh?
stato...stato...stato
im bored wee man.
your team is rank, your system is rank, your continual waving of pieces of paper is driving me insane but i love celtic football club. someone please help.
met big hesselink in paris on thursday...lovely big chap.
and djibril cisse on friday, tried to smuggle him oot the hotel in my holdall but he wisnae havin it.
come on the celts
at least start to make them work for the title
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I thought it was Jussi Jaaskelainen we were after when Artur leaves. Better keeper than Schwarzer, available on Bosman.
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I hope we do see Naylor being dropped cos he's not played well enough for way too long with Wilson brought back in as LB with Robson out left and Aiden on the right.
Now the middle pairing of Hartley and ???????
Big pause here cos I simply don't know who I'd play in there??
Donatti...not sure he's up for teeh fight or teh surface of M'well
Sno...maybe he should be given a chance
Caldell def' mid role ?? as someone suggested allowing Bobo and Mick at the back?
NAKA? away from home on a poor surface? maybe not
Maybe Gordon is having the same dilemna picking his team......it's his team and he'll see the effort in training.
or we could go;
BOB \ Mick \ Caldwell
Hinkel \ Hartley \ Aiden \ ?????? \ Wilson
Samaras \ Mcdonald
And surprise everyone even the players......
Sadly I suspect we'll see the same guys from recent weeks with Brown's ommission being forced through suspension.
A win please for the good guys
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I hope we do see Naylor being dropped cos he's not played well enough for way too long with Wilson brought back in as LB with Robson out left and Aiden on the right.
Now the middle pairing of Hartley and ???????
Big pause here cos I simply don't know who I'd play in there??
Donatti...not sure he's up for teeh fight or teh surface of M'well
Sno...maybe he should be given a chance
Caldell def' mid role ?? as someone suggested allowing Bobo and Mick at the back?
NAKA? away from home on a poor surface? maybe not
Maybe Gordon is having the same dilemna picking his team......it's his team and he'll see the effort in training.
or we could go;
BOB \ Mick \ Caldwell
Hinkel \ Hartley \ Aiden \ ?????? \ Wilson
Samaras \ Mcdonald
And surprise everyone even the players......
Sadly I suspect we'll see the same guys from recent weeks with Brown's ommission being forced through suspension.
A win please for the good guys
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pj dali,
beer... mmmmmmmmmmmm....
like i say, until we have two better players, i'll support the players in possession of the jerseys.
the good guya will wallop m'well today. mcmanus first scorer ;o)
wgs,
december showed us what is was like paying with brown in goals. if the young lad fox played we wouldnt have lost those goals against ICT, and i include the penalty in that.
incidentally, i agree that centre halves are needed, but until that happens i'll support those already there.
prediction:
m'well 0 - 4 celtic
we're gonna win the league.
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davie hay
you`ve summed it up for me
haven`t given up ..but this is murder
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I watched the Sporting Lisbon game the other night and while i could never ever cheer a goal scored by the FOD i am glad they progressed since it means additional games. I also think it'll be more dmoralising getting to the semi to be eliminated rather than an earlier round.
But i wondered something after watching the FOD progress.
Would the fact that the cardigan has guided the gers to a European semi cut WGS some slack?
Everyone can claim that the gers are rank rotten all day long but no team, no matter how bad gets to a euro semi being as bad as they're made out.
Hopefully they'll now be eliminated since they're missing captain unbookable (in Scotland anyway) and Kevin Thomson for the first leg.
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Today I'm in France. This afternoon I'll be visiting friends. I use the word friends advisedly since they have no interest whatsoever in football far less in Celtic so I will be attempting to appear interested in conversation whilst my mind continually drifts off to Fir Park and what's happening there.It'll be a long day till I get back.
When I get back however my first port of call will be CQN for the live match comments. I'll be hoping for good news.
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Du the Husker;
Not trying to sound funny or rude, but are you not actually chucking the towel (by way of this blog) in by saying you're not coming back simply because you disagree with some opinions posted.
In the last 48 hours I've read some very passionate statements from those who back our manager 100% and equally passionate arguements against him.......it's a blog, it's about opinions and it's addictive reading a lot of the time.
Can't see how some get all biscuit arsed with some text on a page.......
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I think it's important to remember that a lot of people, myself included to a certain extent, have two voices - one which I post on here and one which I would call my pals in the pub voice.
I don't know anyone (And I mean anyone) who was smiling when they heard last Saturday's selection or was unsure of the possible outcome.
I save my worst vitriol for the pub. Because there's more than enough unrelated parties willing to have a pop at Celtic.
As for the manager arguments and criticisms - you can't put a level on it. You can't have a notion of what acceptable and what is unacceptable criticism. You have to allow it all and be damned to a certain extent.
I sat with PF last week and we witnessed a ridiculous amount of individual supporters (and not just younger ones) questioning the actions of our manager. None of these guys took up the chant. But they were completetly unhappy with the fare on display. And there was, worst of all I'm afraid, a helpless acceptance of what was coming to pass.
That's what hurts me most.
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Pitch is in a disgraceful state (just shownon Setanta), waste of time playin Naka on that
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Ulysees Mcghee;
You some it up very well....better than I could.
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darich67...
Rangers aren't poor. They're not particularly pleasing on the eye and we could debate all day about how many of their players would get into our starting eleven but the fact is Smith IS a far better manager than Strachan and has moulded them into a TEAM. Their success this season proves it and it shows the importance of a top manager. The comments on here regarding Rangers smacks of complacency and arrogance and has run through the club for the last two years from the board to the support. Let's get it into our heads bhoys and ghirls - Rangers are better than us and continuing this pig-faced denial will only compound the situation. We need to do something NOW.
Remember the galvanising effect Smith had last year when he cut our lead by half and beat us twice? They put a marker down for this season and the momentum carried them. Maybe it's time we took action, realised Strachan is a dead-man walking and brought someone in now rather than wasting a pre-season to do it. Ed says he hopes Strachan is here next season.....says it all I'm afraid.
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boruc
hinkel
naylor
caldwell
mcmanus
naka
hartley
robson
mcgeady
mcdonald
jan
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Team is
BORUC
HINKEL
CALDWELL
MCMANUS
NAYLOR
NAKA
HARTLEY
ROBSON
AIDEN
JVoH
Scott MCD
no more comments from me......disappointed in the line up and hope I'm wrong.
3 badly needed points for the good guys PLEASE!!!
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good news that hartley & robson are playing but what does the dutch bollard & naylor need to do to get dropped?? if we want to sgn samaras for next season we ain't goin the right way about it
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At 13/04/08 11:50, bournesouprecipe said…
Bournesouprecipe, I would like to clarify further what I said. First of all, bare in mind that my post was a reply to dub-tim saying:
"see, we're not like them. i just wish we didnt turn on our manager, in a way they did with le guen."
I said that many Celtic supporters are exactly like them, meaning that they are unfairly turning on our manager. Do you think that those Rangers supporters who wanted rid of Le Guen, or perhaps more similarly, Alex McLeish, were any less justified in their views than those wishing to see the back of WGS? I think not, in my mind there is a clear parrallel. I thought that the treatment of Alex McLeish in particular was dreadful and I recall many, many Celtic supporters echoing that view at the time. I suspect that some of those same people are now lining up behnd calls for the removal of WGS. Is there a difference?
As for the hatred issue, I talked of Celtic supporters as a collective, meaning me, you and every other Celtic supporter. In my opinion, we have all been guilty of hating them. I didn't discuss whether our hate was justfied, nor did I delve into degrees of hatred, I merely pointed out that it has existed for a long time and it is still with us today.
I believe that our hatred of them has been a factor in maintaining the status quo - The Old Firm. If we want to get rid of this tag we will need to do it by changing ourselves - and particulalry in our relationship to them - because we have no direct control over them (We can only change what we control). Personally, I thnk that many outsiders are beginning to get the picture that we are different from them when it comes to our behaviour in foreign places. However, and let's be honest here, how many of us truly wish that Rangers supporters would follow our example? Can we all place our hands on our heart and say that it saddens us to watch them behave like animals in Barcelona and Lisbon? I think not. We need them to behave the way they do because it serves our sense of self-righteousness and justifies our contention that we are different. And as long as we are different we can can rightly claim that we should not be associated with them. However, this is only a single dimension of difference and I'd suggest that it's not the one that forms the basis for the Old Firm tag.
I did not tell anyone that Celtic as a club and the directors are responsible for leaving behind
our old ways - I said that "the Celtic Club and its directors are arguably the ones most responsible for encouraging our support to move on". In my opinion, that comment leaves enough room to acknowledge the considerable work that other groups have undertaken in bringing about a change on this front. However, let me repeat my question, if it had been left to the supporters alone, does anyone really believe that we would have made such huge strides in this respect?
My attack on the critics of WGS is justified in so much as many of those concerned have shown little humility in their attacks on the man. I have read few balanced or informative assessments of the problems that WGS and his coaching team have encountered this season. For example, few of the critics in question have acknowledged, or elaborated on, the success of Walter Smith and Rangers, preferring instead to paint them as a lucky team, just in the same way they described WGS when his teams were in the ascendancy. I assume that they would incorporate a roulette wheel in the recruitment procedure for a new manager since luck seems to be one of their primary criteria for a successful manager and team! Wasn't Alex McLeish also a very lucky manager?
I rarely hate Rangers these days but I do feel sorry for many of their supporters, whether it be the decent ones like Edward who forever have to point out that they are different to the ones that tar the his club's reputation (I know many Rangers fans of this ilk, decent people with hopes and aspirations just like you and I) or the ones who do the tarring. Largely the former comprises people who were born into biggoted families and were raised to hate Catholics, Fenians, Irish Republicans and of course, Celtic supporters (just to mention a few). I guess it is their fault that they were born into such a situation. I guess it is their fault that the teachers, the leaders and others in positions of responsibility throughout Scotland have allowed the dirty illness that is sectarianim and biggotry to fester for so long. Bare in mind, it could easily have been you or I.
Some time ago I read Martin Luther King's "Strength to Love". He writes at length about loving your enemy and the injuries that hate inflicts on both those who are subject to it and those who dish it out. On the latter he writes:
"Hate is just as injurious to the person who hates. Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true".
If we are better than Rangers supporters, we are certainly not so much better that we are magnaminous when winning, more gracious in defeat, and more capable of acknowleging their achievements. You may be right about the question of degree but I think that we still share many of their human flaws.
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gary67......agree 100%
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uly
£50 was safe right enough
at least the italian stallion isnae playin
Naylor FFS
Naka and Aiden on that tattie field
i despair ..i really do
INTRANSIGENCE
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James Forrest
Some excellent stuff on the previous thread, have to admit i agree with most of it.
Can I ask you a loaded question - do you think we will win today?
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AND I FORGOT
JVOH
WTF has Samaras got to do to play
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Itzallova:
I am greviously concerned about today. The team may have changed (a little) but his failure to play Samaras is seriously worrying, and the tactics, of course, will not have changed one iota.
McGhee could have picked his own team and tactics after last weeks game, knowing how little our approach would change.
That TERRIFIES me.
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gordon strachan cant win cane he?
unless he plays a 442-cum-343-cum-451-cum-352-cum-424 formation and plays 24 players from the start, excluding donati, he will be accused of getting it wrong and being stubborn.
just support celtic, please!
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Since when has it NOT been supporting Celtic to be concerned for our team?
The people who are criticising Strachan are doing so for very, very, very good reasons ..... the league table foremost amongst them, our recent results, the demoralisation of some of our playing staff and his attitude towards his critics being others.
We support Celtic wholeheartedly, without equivocation. Supporting Celtic, however, and supporting a manager who has presided over a shambles which is turning into a crisis, are not the same thing.
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James – share your concerns mate – sticking with the same old tried and untrustworthy will be his downfall.
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james forrest
thanks ..saves me from replying
it does my head in...that some consider reasoned criticism to be some form of treacherous sedition
for the record I AM A CELTIC SUPPORTER ...NOT A WGS FAN...BUT A CELTIC SUPPORTER
MON THE HOOPS
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At 13/04/08 12:35, James Forrest said…
James, are you the same guy who used to write the quality posts on here?
Those 30+ players signed by WGS in three seasons, of whom the vast majority you suggest are useless, got us into the last 16 of the Champions League twice. Twice achieving something our club had never achieved before.
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Donati not even on the bench but Balde is.
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james forrest,
everyone is entitled to their opinion, but gordon strachan is infinitely more qualified to manage celtic than you or i, and a number of other managers/ex players mentioned on this blog over the last while. you can have your opinion, of course, but implying that you are more correct than someone like gordon strachan (ie, playing your favoured player over someone who has scored 1-in-2) isnt constructive.
i appreciate concern - i'm concerned - but i'll support celtic in whatever formation they take, and whatever the line up. strachan takes the training 5 days a week and knows the players he has inside out. we see them in the papers and for 90mins or less during a game.
for that reason alone, i trust strachan implicitly with whatever line up he selects and in whatever formation he wants. after all, he is the manager of celtic.
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How many of the 30 plus would you defend? I put their names up some days ago.
Mark Brown. Useless.
Gary Caldwell. Please ......
Steven Pressley. A disgraceful signing.
Du Wei. One game. Clyde. Enough said.
Paul Telfer. Sadly missed?
Mo Camara. Who?
Adam Virgo. He was outstanding in Milan. Oh wait ......
Dion Dublin. Started 3 games.
Jeremie Aliadiere. Pointless signing. Benchwarmer, nothing more.
Gravesen, Sno, Killen .... why?
Zurawski. One good season.
Doumbe. Eight games in two years. Another standout in Europe .... oh wait.
Kenny Miller. Eight goals in 38 games. Not a bad ratio. For a central defender.
Nearly half of them right there. Most of the others are part of the present squad, the one which Rangers have beat four times on the bounce, and many of whom are roundly condemned on here and elsewhere game after game.
I said last night on Strachan's European record, it's in Europe where his "small club" mentality comes in useful, as he plays the same backs-to-the-wall game he used to take to places like Old Trafford.
His European record is laudable in many respects, and yet I can't help thinking we rode our luck there once or twice too with last minute goals saving us a couple of times, that and a penalty shootout against the Russians.
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ian in budapest
sorry ian didn't mean to distract your attention from the preamble to the big game. i'll make
a point of reading your reply properly after we have hopefully dealt with the matter in hand, of beating motherwell.
hail hail
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so according to strachan we're playing well, defence is excellent, we need a wee bit of luck in front of goal. he's either deluded or extracting the urine
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pfayr,
all i was getting at in my original post was that strachan cant win. i happen to think that he's picked a great line up today. however, i know people will be saying "he should have played 352" and some will criticise him for playing naka, others for playing mcdonald... yes, everyone is entitled to opinions, but it seems no matter what he does he upsets many people.
all i want is for people to get behind celtic and stop beating strachan over the head because he doesnt do what you want him to do.
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dub-tim
Your argument about GS being far more qualified than any of the CQN posters (13:36) is entirely logical, particularly to someone like myself who has been one of GS's biggest supporters.
However, we are, potentially, 10 points behind in a two-horse race, having lost points against really poor teams such as ICT, and have played largely rubbish football for most of this season and much of the last.
Given this, I can no longer conclude that it is logical to support GS "implicitly". I agree, however, that he should be entitled to everyone's support as long as he is here.
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new article posted.
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Celtic
01 Boruc
02 Hinkel
05 Caldwell
44 McManus
03 Naylor
25 Nakamura
19 Robson
11 Hartley
46 McGeady
27 McDonald
10 Vennegoor of Hesselink
Substitutes
21 Brown, 15 Sno, 52 Caddis, 29 Mizuno, 09 Samaras, 33 Killen, 06 Balde
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dub-tim:
I respect your opinion, mate, of course, but I am not saying I am a better manager than Strachan, only that we should HAVE a better manager than Strachan.
Your comment about "whatever he does he upsets people" has merit, but only insofar as what bothers us isn't everything he does but that everything he does IS THE SAME.
I for one would have been delighted today had we gone 3-5-2, or even 4-3-3. Anything to break the montonous cycle of his 4-4-2 which other managers know so well they could counter it in their sleep.
I refer you to my posts concerning the Aberdeen cup defeat. A few weeks before the first we played them off the park in the league. Calderwood adjusted his tactics accordingly for the cup game, amongst them giving McGeady a man marker in Alan Maybury. Our most creative player was almost totally marked out of the game that day.
The return match at Parkhead? Strachan fields the EXACT SAME TACTICS, putting McGeady up against the EXACT SAME PLAYER with, predictably, the exact same result. He didn't even have the wit to swap McGeady and Nakamura, which would at least have given Maybury something else to worry about.
That's why I've no faith in him, those games right there, if for no other reason ..... and there are, alas, plenty of other reasons .....
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Enjoyed your earlier post, Ian i B.
We all want Celtic to do well but how we differ is in our response when things are not going as we want. So ask yourself a simple question: What helps the team/Club more when we are not winning/playing well; is it continued support or continued criticism? By all means decide that you want rid of x,y or Strachan but surely now is not the time to be negative. Rangers glean unquetioned support from all areas, Celtic can only rely on us fans. Don`t let them/us down.Be positive and start today.
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A Leader is a Dealer in HOPE...
Napoleon Bonaparte...
HAIL HAIL...
o1bhoy
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How good it is not to have S Brown giving the ball away all day long.
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