TITLE: Oh Rangers did you really think it’s over? AUTHOR: Paul67 DATE: 4/28/2008 03:49:00 PM ----- BODY: Rangers had not lost to Celtic after getting their noses in front in 15 years, so they must have felt they had done enough yesterday when they edged in front. Celtic Park was at its very best though, which I am sure helped drag the team off the ropes and on to victory. Perhaps one small aspect of getting the mood right was the return of some traditional supporters songs on the PA system. Getting the tone right with traditional music is more difficult than getting it wrong, so well done to whoever made the call yesterday. More please against that lot from Hibernia. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Sannabhoy COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 15:50 COMMENT-BODY:excellent atmosphere yesterday. another one v Hibs and we're set up ! -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger itzallova COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 15:54 COMMENT-BODY:Stuart @ 15.02

It means if you dont support the fod, you are a non person. Basically its elitist mumbo jumbo for idiots. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger TheLeftWinger COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 15:55 COMMENT-BODY:Let The People Sing indeed....... -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Serpent's Tongue COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 15:56 COMMENT-BODY:Only caught the end of the last article...so I'm reposting :-p...

****Paul, apologies in advance for the long post…everyone feel free to scroll on by but hopefully I can contribute something to the debate. Before I go off on a tirade, let me just say that yesterday in Paradise was magic and that I am not by nature as bitter as this post may make me seem :-). I am in fact, quite chuffed at our recent results, as I’m sure you can all imagine. Hail hail!****

And so the predictable media hoo-ha over big Artur’s papal t-shirt begins…

What an absolute disgrace the media in this insular little country is. I am sure that Artur’s primary motivation was to wind up the Rangers fans who have, let’s not forget, subjected him to sectarian abuse the kind of which – if spewed against any other ethnicity or religion – would be universally deemed unacceptable. Even by the media.

My only conclusion in this whole affair is that Artur has – I presume unwittingly – exposed many Rangers fans, the Scottish media in general and the union head as bigots.

Fraser Wishart, especially, should hang his head in shame. It is not within his remit to criticise the legal actions of players in his union. He has also completely failed to provide any public support for a player who has received vile sectarian abuse and had the indignity of a procurator fiscal warning dished out for the callous and offending act of blessing himself. He has furthermore failed to condemn such treatment of players. I remember him being particularly vocal when there were incidents of racial abuse at Fir Park. Rightly so. Did he even so much as utter a peep of condemnation during the seven years in which Neil Lennon endured racist and sectarian abuse on a regular basis?

Every time Artur does something remotely – for want of a better word – inflammatory, the same illogical adages are trotted out. He blessed himself – God forbid! Y’Gads, he even “sarcastically” applauded the Hibs fans…

“He could have caused I riot,” they say.

“It was a breach of the peace,” they say.

These are the exact same mantras that anyone who still reads a red top or listens to Radio Clyde and its clones will read and/or hear today.

They are, of course, nonsense. If an image of the Pope incites anyone to riot in 2008, frankly, it is that person who should be prosecuted for breach of the peace, arguably with a hate-crime motivation thrown in.

To be fair to Chic Young, he made that exact point yesterday on Radio Scotland.

All this cod-legal jargon from people who simply do not know what they are talking about is completely unhelpful as well. Notice that we do not hear any mention of Artur’s legally enshrined right to manifestation of his religious belief and freedom of expression – guaranteed under Articles 9 and 10 of the European Convention of Human Rights and legally enforceable in a Scottish court by virtue of the Scotland Act 1998 and the Human Rights Act 1998.

I am very rarely moved to respond to any of the inane whitterings of tabloid journalists or radio pundits in Scotland but this is an important issue – one which holds a rather uncomplimentary light up to Scottish society.

The fact that people first consider that some eejit might be offended before they consider basic civil liberties is indicative of the backwardness of this country, or at least certain sections within this country.

Does anyone remember an article in the Evening Times in the aftermath of our away fixture against Hibs a few months back? Remember Artur’s “ironic” waving?

Matthew Lindsay's "article" in the Evening Times before the game in the Nou Camp about the waving incident at Easter Road is possibly the foremost example of appallingly lazy sensationalism I have had the dubious pleasure of reading this year. Couple it with the sensationalism we are all seeing fester over Artur’s “controversy” and a pattern emerges.

I am loathe to drag up the Lindsay article but it is, I feel, indicative of the current situation and very much typical of journalism in this country.

The media do not like Artur – he is a big, gallus, successful athlete who knows who he is and doesn’t care one jot what other people think of that. And he isn’t afraid of flaunting that fact.

Mr Lindsay suggested that Artur waving at fans in the Nou Camp in a similar fashion to what he did at Easter Road would cause a "full-scale riot" - a response it did not even illicit at Easter Road.

What a shamefully irresponsible thing to write! A spurious claim with no evidence which we now know to be false.

And here is where I see a connection: the exact same argument we are seeing in relation to t-shirt-gate…

Mr Lindsay remarked that Artur’s ironic waving "could easily have provoked an ugly, even violent, response". I would assume that most sentient beings would agree that anyone moved to violence at a football match due to someone waving at them is the one guilty of "indiscipline", not Artur Boruc. The same applies to someone moved to violence by a t-shirt depicting a religious leader.

Artur was then accused of "continued indiscipline", and it was remarked that "this is not the first time he had hit the headlines for the wrong reasons". This is absurd. What examples of such indiscipline are there? How many times has Artur Boruc been sent off for Celtic?

Never.

This is clearly a not-so-veiled reference to the media-created furore surrounding Artur Boruc's practice of blessing himself before matches since this was the only other controversial issue at the tine of Lindsay’s writing. Only in a country as morbidly obsessed with its own disfunction as Scotland could such an act be construed as in any way inflammatory. Blessing oneself is not a manifestation of indiscipline. It is a manifestation of Artur Boruc's religion; a manifestation guaranteed by Articles 9 and 14 of the European Convention on Human Rights. It is a shameful indictment of the insidious sectarianism in this country that the incident provoked any reaction at all. Equally shameful is Mr Lindsay's allusion to it.

And even more shameful is that they are all at it again!

Artur Boruc is a world-class player and a fantastic character - Scottish football would be a far duller place without him. He is certainly a wind-up merchant. But this does not mean that Artur Boruc did anything wrong. I would contend that Artur’s only inadvised action has been to leave himself open to such lurid tabloid spin. But I suspect he doesn’t give a toss what is written about him, and that is fair enough.

The fact that Artur Boruc produces such idiotic ramblings is the fault of what Mr Lindsay in his article called “the cretins who attach themselves to Scottish football" and no-one else.

Journalists (and player’s union bosses) should be less neglectful of the truth - and their responsibilities in a civil society.

And these responsibilities should surely be engaged by the vile famine chant sung by the vast majority of Rangers fans at Parkhead in the last two Old Firm games. Has there been any mention of this in the media?

I haven’t seen any.

The Rangers fans sing to me to “go home”.

I am home.

As Heaney so eloquently wrote in “Whatever You Say Say Nothing” –


"Yet I live here, I live here too, I sing,

Expertly civil-tongued with civil neighbours..."


Unfortunately, some of our neighbours aren’t so civil.

Again, in the case of Artur, we have seen a mere pantomime turned into a potential riot, whilst nary a peep is made of “the famine’s over chant”.

The famine and its effects killed up to one and a half million innocents and produced an unprecedented exodus of another million people. So far as I’m aware, wearing a t-shirt of the Pope hasn’t killed anyone yet.

Only in Scotland. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Nae Bread come on the 'tic! COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 15:56 COMMENT-BODY:the atmos and the support are so important to this team.

The away support sing their hearts out and back the team from start till finish.

The last two games against r*angers have reminded us what Celtic Park should sound like. Please do not return to silent expectation, sitting on hands and nervous shuffling because the team pick up on it and get nervous and the visitors pick up on it and feed on it.

Whole hearted vocal support till the end of the season (and beyond) ! -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger tully57 COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 16:05 COMMENT-BODY:Spot - on Paul, hopefully we can bring The Fields back too.

Fair play as well to the Jungle Bhoys and volunteers for a tremendous banner display.

I would love the Aiden McGeady & Jimmy McGrory banners for the gable end of my house.

Serpents - tremendous post. With you 100%. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger AbMucker COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 16:06 COMMENT-BODY:Paul67, Nae Bread et all,

The atmosphere yesterday was fantastic and yes I believe it did drag us back into it in that first half after we seemed to lose our way.

The Wednesday before I thought had a better atmosphere but this could have been down to the Football being played under the Floodlights.
Love that feeling. Maybe a reminder of the Euro Nights during winter.

I agree though, the last 3 matches have to be a right good sing song, home & away. WGS commented on it more this year than any other about how he feels it plays a big part.

The team needs us for this push
Hail Hail

Mucker -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger AbMucker COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 16:07 COMMENT-BODY:Serpents,

I'm going top print your post out and have a read when stuck in traffic.

Mucker
Off the smokes at the worst time! -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger peter COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 16:08 COMMENT-BODY:excellent article serpent's tongue. However can I suggest that you don't forget too quickly the sweetness of yesterday's result.

Hail Hail -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Lennondinho18 COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 16:09 COMMENT-BODY:if they do their gonna have to kill us all

for until u take gordon smith out of the top job

then we will sing about our battles at.........

cudnae think of the last bit!!! -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Jumanji COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 16:12 COMMENT-BODY:Let the people sing and the people shall.

Anyone with pics of the banners yesterday seen as my mrs had my ticket and i wasnt there. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Serpent's Tongue COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 16:14 COMMENT-BODY:tully57, abmucker - cheers :)

peter - I've watched it thrice already. I'm not gonna forget just yet.

StillTriumphant -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Theragswerepublicansdisdain COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 16:16 COMMENT-BODY:Serpent's tounge,

That was an excellent post, made all the better by mentioning famous Seamus.

Therags...

Watching the pointing hands
Of country people,
Not knowing their tongue. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Stuart COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 16:22 COMMENT-BODY:itzallova,

I had guessed at the gist. I'd rather be a non-person than one of them.

My dad drove through yesterday, and parked somewhere inadvisable. We ended up more or less crossing (!) the away fans as they left the ground. We didn't open our mouths but the abuse we were subjected to was horrible. One guy threw a glass at me. The thing that really opened my eyes was the assumptions they make about the Celtic support. I'm neither Irish nor Catholic, but those were the things they chose to abuse me for. I sometimes think that the perceived bigotry and prejudice is a bit overdone, but yesterday I was sorry to see it alive and thriving in Glasgow. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger malceye COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 16:28 COMMENT-BODY:I loved Artur's t-shirt. However, his jousting with the Rankers fans and media has to be taken in exactly that spirit. Turn the tables - if Rankers had won/drawn yesterday and Neil Alexander ran across the pitch waving a union jack, would we all be here declaring his right to freedom of expression ? I don't think so somehow. Alternatively, if Alexander had revealed a "rule britannia" shirt ? In both these hypothetical situations, I would argue that the media would be correct to decry him. I suspect that many here would agree.

In short, leave the two-faced approach to them. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger AbMucker COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 16:33 COMMENT-BODY:Stuart,

I hate the "Peepul" chant but it also makes me laugh as they quite obviously aren't representative of any decent or civil section of anyones population.

In response to the Famine song.

We're paying your Dole
We're paying your Dole
We can't go home
Cause we're paying your Dole.

I know most of you lot out there are "Home" but it was just a thought. I'd like a good chant to put them back down into teh hold they belong
(Sorry Mineshafters :-))

Mucker
Not a Song Writer -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger winningemmell COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 16:37 COMMENT-BODY:Sellik First -


no more news on Paul and wasn't able to contact his dad. Bad stuff but typical of ML2 to be honest. I may pick up some more info tonight.



Happy Birthday to those celebrating. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Serpent's Tongue COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 16:39 COMMENT-BODY:malceye

I agree with you about the spirit in which Artur's gesture should be taken...the thing is that it hasn't been taken in the spirit of a wind-up by the media and Rangers fans.

The default position was to call bloody murder and demand he be disciplined for somehow endangering people. The problem is theirs, not Artur's.

I have no doubt it was intended as a wind-up. And given what Artur has faced, I wholeheartedly salute him!

If Neil Alexander decided to do either of those things, I wouldn't bat an eyelid.

Most Celtic fans wouldn't be happy in the heat of the moment but that doesn't mean someone should face criminal sanctions (as many have advocated in the case of Artur).

And if Neil Alexander did do that, do you think the media would decry him?

That's the question.

I think they might but certainly not with the same gusto they have with Artur over the last few months. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Stuart COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 16:39 COMMENT-BODY:Malceye,

Spot on, I'd like to think we're better than that, and could heartily boo Alexander if he did that and agree that it was a decent wind-up. I fear that there's plenty morons in our support too who'd take it too far.

In both cases I'd say that the players were within their rights, but slightly ill advised. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Nae Bread come on the 'tic! COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 16:44 COMMENT-BODY:malceye

I honestly couldnt give a flip if Neil Alexander wore a god save the queen Tshirt (in fact it it was a seditioneries original I'd buy it from him)

Or if he ran about with a union jack.

Why the hell would I find any of those actions offensive?

Am I rabidly anti british? No, I am all for independance and I am also for a republic, but I do not find support for the union or for the monarchy at all offensive. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 16:44 COMMENT-BODY:malceye,

With regards to your hypothetical situation. Hasn´t Andy Goram and Billy Wright already disproven ?? spelling help needed DBBIA you ?

Expanding on your theory I dont think the laptop loyal would have had a problem with Alexander running around with A rule britannia T-shirt but if he had thwetemerity to display a lion rampant or a saltire then they would have come down hard on him. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger peter COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 16:44 COMMENT-BODY:Forgot to say hi to paul67 and all on CQN. First time poster long time lurker/shirker.

Serpent's Tongue - I look forward to reading your future posts. Keep up the good work.

Stuart -

I had the misfortune to catch the train home yesterday after leaving BB's. In High Street station a Rangers "fan", a man in his thirties, after urinating on the platform in plain view of other passengers (along with his girlfriend) verbally abused celebrating Celtic supporters on the opposite platform. When this failed to elicit any response he accussed us of paedophelia and informed us that we didn't wash. I swear the man actually BELIEVED what he was saying. Let me repeat it. I truly feel that he was firm in his belief and his convictions.
It absolutely beggars belief.

Make no mistake.
They are hurting.
They have always been hurting.
They will always be hurting.

Hail Hail. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 16:46 COMMENT-BODY:NAe Bread,

I know this is not going to make me popular but I have often argued that without the union Scotland would have become Bosnia before Bosnia did if you catch my drift. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger winningemmell COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 16:49 COMMENT-BODY: Sason 1978-79 Revisited


28 April

Premier League


Celtic 2 Dundee United 1


Emerald Greens:-

Latchford, McGrain, Edvaldsson, Aitken, Lynch, Conroy;
Burns, MacLeod, Provan, McCluskey, Doyle.


Tangerines:-

McAlpine, Stewart, Hegarty, Narey, Stark,Addison;
Fleming, Holt, Kirkwood (Payne), Sturrock (Kopel), Merrick.

Att-37,000

0-1 Merrick (43)

0-1 HT

1-1 Wee Johnny, God rest him (58)
2-1 Lynch (68 pen)


Celtic came from behind for the second successive match to win by the odd goal in three. Davie 'Wean-Frightener' Dodds opened the scoring for the aptly-nicknamed Terrors just before the interval. However Celtic hit back and took the points with two second-half goals, the second being a crucial penalty conversion. Hmmmmm.






PS Graham Payne - an unfulfilled talent if ever there was one.






WG -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Stuart COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 16:49 COMMENT-BODY:nae bread,

It seems that we are offended by their offensive actions and gross bigotry.

They're offended that 'we' exist. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger dontbrattbackinanger COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 16:50 COMMENT-BODY:Awenaw- disproven is fine:~) Or refuted.

I would pay good money to see Her Majesty in a 'God Bless Neil Alexander' t-shirt. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger AbMucker COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 16:51 COMMENT-BODY:Sorry Lhads,

But waving the Buthcer's Apron at the opposition (by a Player) or a Nice T-Shirt (Ahem) with Rule - Britannia on it cannot and should not be compared with having a religous figure on a T-Shirt!!!

I'm not going to get on my high horse about the waving of that flag or the wearing of that T-Shirt but they aren't the same.

Boruc retaliated to the bigots in a simple way. He's has been abused since he dared Bless himself at their midden. (Someone posted a link of a video made by one of these muppets who actually mentions on it "that's it, I've got you on video now ya.....". Evidence indeed.

Don't make excuses for muppets by saying some of ours would do the same. We have had low points as a support but never at their level as long as I have attended games.

We're not the same!
God forbid

Mucker -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 16:51 COMMENT-BODY:DBBIA,

just a T-shirt ?

What about Carla -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Ulysses McGhee COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 16:53 COMMENT-BODY:Serpent's tongue - great post and sadly, relentlessly, true.

Their goalie (one in particular) acted with impunity, both on and off the field. McGregor himself is trying to build a certain hero mystique about himself...

And yet Artur Bowritz (If the press and commentators are to be believed) is vilified. Because there's a bigger undertow at work here. He is the pinnacle, the fullest representation of the new immigrant flow the 'peepul' have to rail against. He is the bogeyman for their deluded fears re them people, them catholic people, coming over here and stealing our jobs.

He is big and powerful and successful and does not like them and is not afraid to show it and reminds them that we live in a time where their ideas of tolerance are not the measuring stick or the guidelines by which people should behave.

The nation's - and I strongly italic nation - response to him has been nothing short of unforgivable and dark and twisted.

He holds up the crack'd looking glass and they hate what they see yet are too rooted in their hatred to change and find the easiest route from introspection is vocal and optical asault.

Abba Adonai

UMC3GL -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Nae Bread come on the 'tic! COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 16:56 COMMENT-BODY:Awe Naw

I know where you are coming from. I am aware of the lord advocates dragging scotland out of a taleban type state that would have existed had knoxes followers got all their own way. And also of how the english parliament curtailed the circa 1900 church of scotland (now penitent) biggoted behaviour by introducing the schools act.

I do belive in Salmond that we have a guy who does not give a damn about protecting 'tradition' and wants the country to move forward in a way McConnel would shy away from. Only time will tell. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger malceye COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 16:57 COMMENT-BODY:Serpent and Stuart,

for what its worth, my survey of the papers today - Independent, Guardian, Torygraph, Herald and Scotsman demonstrated that Artur's shirt was a newsworthy item but none determined it worthy of their express contempt or complaint. I suspect that if the boot was on the other foot, that would be the limit of the "condemnation" of any Ranker player.

You or I may not take offence but there are others who would take great exception. Whether those Celtic fans would be religiously motivated, I am not sure but the point must be that for some that objection may well take the physical form.

We have to be very careful to distinguish sectarianism from a concern for public safety. As we all know, many have been killed or injured as a consequence of the religious intolerance of others. That is not to say that you pander to their small-mindedness. However, freedom of expression or otherwise, what has a GBTP shirt have to do with football ? Moreover, what does it have to do with a football match attended by a significant proportion of the away support who are the intolerant sort who will maim others who they identify as Catholic ? To a neutral, it must be baffling, to say the least. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Onlooker COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 17:01 COMMENT-BODY:Stuart 16:22
I used to work with a Dunfermline fan who used to go to every game home and away.
He travelled to Glasgow with low expectation ,during this period the Pars were often beaten 4,5, or 6 nil so they were not exactly offering a threat on the pitch.
Their travelling support would be a few hundred but they would sing their hearts out with ironic ditties outlining their plight.

He always enjoyed the banter with the Celtic fans ( or so he told me anyway) but was always amazed at the vitriol of those who walk in Darkness.
I remember well his report one day.

He was bemused to hear the Ibrox 'choir' chant at the small band of visitors
" Fife Fenian B's , your just Fife Fenian B's"

They use the two words in conjunction so often they must think Fenian & B is all one word.


AB Mucker 16:33

If your looking for words to sing back to the Famine song how about using Ian Archers quote to the same tune, needs some work

"Permanent embarrassment
Permanent embarrassment
Permanent embarrassment
Occasional disgrace"

The Onlooker -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger dontbrattbackinanger COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 17:01 COMMENT-BODY:Awenaw- I would pay a lot of money to see Mme Sarkozy in a 'God Bless Harald M Brattbakk' t-shirt.

I understand there is a chance she will wear this to celebrate the impending 10th anniversary of the Slaying of the Nine. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Stuart COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 17:02 COMMENT-BODY:abmucker,

the flag you refer to is the flag of the country that both clubs play in.

how can we fly the tricolor and be offended by the union flag, and claim to not be two faced?

Why isn't there a union flag on the north stand? We have 7 flags there, but not the national flag (putting the Scotland / Britain distinction aside for the moment). We tell everyone that we were the first British club to with the European Cup. My favourite celtic song celebrates the coronation cup residing in paradise. I assume that it was the coronation of she-who-must-not-be-named ;-)

There's a lot of history here, and I'm not blind to it, but I think that we are better than them, and I want us to continue proving that we are better than them. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger AbMucker COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 17:03 COMMENT-BODY:Malceye,

Not sure what you mean there.

Are you saying that because they are a shower of aggressive Bigots, we should be careful not to upset them as they may be incited to violence ???

Mucker
No need to hide no more -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Nae Bread come on the 'tic! COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 17:08 COMMENT-BODY:Song for the boys in blue

3 wheels on my wagon ....

11 blue bottles crashing as they fall

:)

happy bhoy today -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger inkybhoy COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 17:09 COMMENT-BODY:I'm not sure, but did the T-shirt that Artur wore get thrown to him by a spectator?

TV footage didn't show him taking off his football top revealing said T-shirt, but it seemed to be on top of a long sleeve shirt that wasn't his strip.

According to radio reports, the T-shirt only contravenes FIFA/UEFA rules about T-shirts with slogans in general.

There's no mention about the actual person on the shirt or the words.

And anyway, what's the big deal?

Artur is Polish, and I don't think it's stretching things to say that John Paul II was a figure of huge significance to the Polish people before the fall of the Iron Curtain.

I can only imagine that Artur was brought up to think very highly of JP II and for all I know, popes in general.

What's the problem with this country?

If he had worn a T-shirt saying FTQ, fair enough, there would have been a problem, but he didn't.

Interesting to note a number of assaults and deaths last night in and around Glasgow. Don't remember Sundays being particularly busy for the polis in recent weeks.

Any connection to the result yesterday?

Lardo66

Editor's orders are exactly that Dae it or yer sacked. I remember the pick with Alex 'not vewy pwoud today' Ferguson you're talking about. It was poor idea and poorly executed, like so many of these 'stunted-up' pics.

STANDING UP...no, I didn't go to St Pat's -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger malceye COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 17:13 COMMENT-BODY:ABMucker

their bigotry should be exposed and continue to be so revealed. However, a goalkeeper revealing a GBTP t-shirt misses the mark in my book. The intention is to antagonise them not expose their intolerance. In a match which has been acclaimed as the world's biggest derby game, where the rest of the world continues to pitch it as the Catholics versus the Protestants (look at any European football magazine), gimmicks such as that only serve to continue the myth that it is divided along such religious lines. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger gweedorebhoy COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 17:13 COMMENT-BODY:The butchers apron should never hang over parkhead.

The blood of to many innocents has stained that rag red.

I'm all for fair play but that piece of excrement over our heads no thanks.

Rule Britannia my arse. Does two sheep ridden islands stolen from the argies constitute an empire now?

Don't get me started on singing about german pensioners being rescued by god.

They have thier culture we have ours thank god i am not one of the people. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Serpent's Tongue COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 17:15 COMMENT-BODY:malceye

Of course it's baffling to neutrals but a God Bless the Pope t-shirt, in reality, has everything to do with football in this country.

It is naive to think that it doesn't.

Our identity as Celtic fans is bound up in Irishness and Catholicism - that is a fact. Whether one believes that to be right or wrong is another matter.

Of course, we are an inclusive community...we are not all Irish Catholic in heritage, but that is - generally - the milieu from which our commonality is forged.

The public safety vs expression thing is a red herring. Of course "many have been killed or injured as a consequence of the religious intolerance of others" but not because of something as trivial as this.

I agree that we must distinguish sectarianism from a concern for public safety but in this case there never was any threat to public safety and if there was, it would be precisely because of sectarianism.

As I said in my earlier post, a pantomime has been made into a potential riot...not by the broadsheet papers that you mentioned, but by tabloid journalism.

I probably won't listen to any of the phone-ins tonight but I am pretty sure there will be some smug rebukes for Artur's actions.

You say that "the point must be that for some that objection may well take the physical form". I would contend that anyone moved to physical violence is the one with the problem. For me, the point is that when people start modifying their behaviour for fear of illiciting retribution of a physical nature, intolerance has won.

And I mean that in a broad sense, not just in the context of a football match.

Anyway, we won!

Hail Hail

SillyTangent -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Stuart COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 17:16 COMMENT-BODY:abmucker @ 1703

You're completely correct, the ethics, morals & legality are all pretty clear, but...

I'm not sure what the but is, but I think it's something along the lines of it's not morally correct to needlessly put yourselve at risk from someone who respects neither ethics, morals or the law.

Great progress has been made when people bravely ignore this 'but'. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Parkheadcumsalford COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 17:17 COMMENT-BODY:While I don't think it was the wisest thing to do, I find it utterly incomprehensible that the SFA (according to the BBC) are waiting for the ref's report before deciding upon action about our goalie's wearing of that T-shirt. It does beggar belief. Only in Scotland.

Where is that moron, Fraser Wishart, who already has had the stupidity to suggest that Artur bless himself in the tunnel so as not to offend R+++++s' Supporters? He should be dismissed from any position of responsiblity. Mind you, that should have happened when Wishart failed to defend Artur when his pal Thompson had Artur booked for complaining about Thompson's cheating.

Wee question: did anybody else see Barry Ferguson swearing at the ref? Maybe the ref didn't hear him. Aye, right. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger winningemmell COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 17:18 COMMENT-BODY:1973

Scottish First Division

Hibernian 0 Celtic 3


Half-baked:-

McArthur, Bremner, Schaedler, Stanton (Smith), Black, Spalding;
Edwards, O'Rourke, Gordon, Cropley, Duncan.

Well-fired:-

Hunter, McGrain, Brogan, Murdoch, McNeill, Connelly;
Johnstone, Dalglish, Deans, Hay, Callaghan.


1-0 Deans (22)

1-0 HT

2-0 Dalglish (71)
3-0 Deans (80)


From Dreams and Songs To Sing:-

The team travelled to Edinburgh on 28 April 1973 needing only a draw to retain the title, but responded to the pressurised situation with a flourish, The atmosphere in the ground was highly charged, some 45,000 having been shoe-horned into Easter Road, but Celtic swept Hibs aside with a superb display, at once professional and stylish, the 3-0 win being highlighted by clinical finishing from the leading scorers, Dixie Deans and Kenny Dalglish.



Superb. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger AbMucker COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 17:20 COMMENT-BODY:Stuart,

I'm obvioulsy missing everybody today.

I can wave a Tricolour as an Irishman and see no need for me to have any affinity with the Union Flag. Simply because Celtic play in Scotland and we don't wave a Union flag does not make us 2 faced. We are a club who celebrate our heritage as a Celtic Club (Pronounce with a 'K' sound). That would be the joining of Ireland and Scotland.

I was under the impression that the Apron was flown at Celtic Park. Apologies if I'm wrong.
How did we get from a Pope t-Shirt to a Scotland v Union discussion??
Do you see this as the same?

You sound quite happy within the union, how can you compare it to religous hatred?


I know we're not on the same level as them so I need to prove nothing!

Mucker
Saoirse Na hEireann agus Alba -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger gweedorebhoy COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 17:21 COMMENT-BODY:Does anyone else not think that was artur saying GIRUY to the huns once last time.

The egits called journos in this country have driven yet another world class celt away from our so called best little country.

At least he will expose the scum when he leaves he is never shy at providing good copy. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Paul67 COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 17:23 COMMENT-BODY:Welcome Peter, good to hear from you.

Winningemmell, that 1979 theory might have something going for it.

Inkybhoy, I understand the tee shirt was thrown to Artur. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Gordon_J COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 17:23 COMMENT-BODY:inkybhoy,

Artur had the t-shirt on under his goalie's jersey. He threw his gloves and then his shirt into the crowd first.

Frankly I don't care why Artur chose to wear what he did. It doesn't matter. He had every right to do so regardless of what anyone else may think. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Hanif Uno Dahistri COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 17:25 COMMENT-BODY:well said malceye

I enjoyed Boruc's behaviour yesterday cause I'm a wean at heart and it annoyed them.

But I hate the image it sends worldwide ( their reaction is worse - I know, I know )

I could discuss and defend my issues with the Pope and his teachings but this is a site about football, and should stick to football. Hence, I don't like it when a player brings religion to the centre of the debate. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger malceye COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 17:25 COMMENT-BODY:Serpents

if Catholic is a status which adequately describes the modern Celtic then what quarrel can we have with "them" and the vile views they continue to express ? The clue is in the name of their denomination - "protestant".

For me, Celtic is not a Catholic club nor is it Irish. That may be the heritage but we must be very careful to avoid such tags in today. Celtic is a Scottish club. Jock Stein would never define the club as anything more. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger St-Gris COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 17:26 COMMENT-BODY:ARTUR BORUC.

you just know both phone-ins will all be about him and how he has let himself down, let the club down but most importantly - let the fans down. blah blah blah.

I was going to phone in - can anyone justify big Arturs actions.

I cant. Nothing wrong with it. Only the bigots have a problem with it but i couldnt back him in words.

There is a time and a place and that was just a big GIRUY. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger winningemmell COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 17:26 COMMENT-BODY:If we're going to start squabbling among ourselves about Artur's t-shirt, the media have succeeded.

A t-shirt !!

ML2 will be bouncing to flute bands every weekend until October.


Sad country this. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Tic Talk COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 17:26 COMMENT-BODY:This was written at 11.30 yesterday as a tribute to the many excellent posts of Winningemmel and to show how I wa feeling before the game.
ANDERING GUNNER
or
Wallop Guzzler
Woke Gently
Wanting Gratification.
Winning Grandly
Will Give
Wee Gordon
Wonderful Glory
Without Greeting,
Whingeing Gloating.
Wonderful Goals
Win Games.
Walter Gutted
We Glory
With Glagow
Celtic.
A belated Wappy Girthday -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Tic Talk COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 17:27 COMMENT-BODY:Whingers Gloating -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Kingoh COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 17:27 COMMENT-BODY:Just back from the reserve game. Nothing great to report after a scrappy 1-0 defeat but young McGowan looks a prospect and Killen had a decent game despite the scoreline. Bobo and Cuthbert solid at the back.

Still now only one game in hand and 2 points behind St Mirren.

Maybe it's best to have the points in the bag as opposed to games in hand.Mmmmmmm..... -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Parkheadcumsalford COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 17:29 COMMENT-BODY:By the way, I have no problem whatever with flying the Union Jack at Celtic Park. I thought it used to be flown.

Many of the fans will have family who have been in the forces over the years. In my own case, my grandfather (on my mother's side), a Protestant from Bridgeton, died of wounds he received in the First World World; his wife, my granny, was also born in Brigton to 2 Donegal folk, who lost 3 sons in that same conflict.

All of the male generation before me did National Service and quite proudly, even if most of them were turned down for jobs because of the school they went to.

And don't infer from any of the above that I have any love for them and what they stand for. They appal me, as does their usurpation of the National Flag. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 17:29 COMMENT-BODY:Nothing will happen to Artur Boruc. We will be told by the laptop loyal that he got a warning.As that is what they will be told to write. They will offer him friendly advice.He will just laugh at them and they will know it. I dont believe that he is for the offski. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger DublinBhoy COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 17:31 COMMENT-BODY:Malcye 16:28:

I'm not sure of your point in saying "if Rankers had won/drawn yesterday and Neil Alexander ran across the pitch waving a union jack, would we all be here declaring his right to freedom of expression".
Boruc ran with the League Winners flag not a Vatican/Polish/Irish flag at Ibrox. Why is that controversial? You could say that winning and parading the cup is also controversial in that it will irritate them.

Hail Hail -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger dontbrattbackinanger COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 17:31 COMMENT-BODY:As Mick Dundee would say- that's not a t-shirt- this is a t-shirt -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger winningemmell COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 17:34 COMMENT-BODY:Tic Talk -


thank you, kind sir, I'll use some of them in future no doubt.


Yes, a very ragged butcher's apron flew above the main stand. I believe there was some law that clubs had to play under that flag. Haven't seen it in years though.




White&Green -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger AbMucker COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 17:35 COMMENT-BODY:Malceye / Stuart,

Sorry if I lost the point in al that. I was sort of agreeing with you regarding this being a GIRUY and not a profession of faith.
I also agree that at a time we want to rid this image of our club as being the "Catholic Club" this won't help in teh eyes of the world.

But I cannot defend teh view point that this would be the same as their goalie waving a flag or having a "Rule Britannia" T-Shirt

Gweedore Bhoy,
A man after my own heart. Maith thu.

Mucker
Still laughing at Huns -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Mick COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 17:35 COMMENT-BODY:Stuart,
The union flag has flow over the North Stand... I've got the picture to prove it. Sorry Gweedorebhoy -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger inkybhoy COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 17:36 COMMENT-BODY:Cheers P67 and Gordon, conflicting versions of the provenance of said T-shirt!

It doesn't really matter, as it did seem to be a huge GIRUY to the Rangers fans, who haven't always been understanding about Artur's choices in terms of professing his faith.

Personally, I think the Voodoo No Worky banner was more offensive than Artur's T-shirt, both on the grounds that it had a pop at the guy's religion and I think his nationality by making a weak 'joke' about his grasp of English, which I've always found to be rather good..how many of the fans who hate Artur are bilingual I wonder?

If Artur was Muslim or Jewish or Zoarastrian or a Jehovah's Witness or Buddhist, would there be the same level of opprobrium directed towards him by FOD fans?

Tricky....mmm...let me think about that.....

STANDING UP -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Serpent's Tongue COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 17:37 COMMENT-BODY:Malceye

I'm afraid you're wrong.

Celtic is not a Scottish club.

At the very least we have a dual identity and that is what makes us special. Billy McNeil has described Celtic as "an Irish club in Scotland". Where did Jock Stein ever say insinuate that this element was to be ignored?

I'm sure Brother Walfrid would view us as more than just a Scottish club.

I never said that being Catholic was a "status which adequately describes the modern Celtic" - I said it was a compenent of our heritage and that is a fact. We are a diverse club but should not be afraid of our heritage.

Personally, I don't have a quarrel with their faith (I am not particularly religious) or anything else about them other than the racist chant alluding to the famine. I fail to understand how having pride in Celtic's heritage somehow disallows us from having a quarrel with this.

Give me one good reason why we should be careful to "avoid" tags that are a result of our heritage?

WG - correct...1-0 to them.

ST -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Tony Bananas COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 17:39 COMMENT-BODY:malceye 16.28 -

Has Neil Alexander been constantly villified in a sectarian and racist fashion almost from the first minute of stepping foot onto Celtic Park? NO

Has Neil Alexander been the subject of poisonous banners decrying his religion? NO

Has Neil Alexander been subject to the severest scrutiny by the press in a transparent effort to smear his character and thereby exhonorate the bigots? NO

In short, we haven't been "dishing out" the "banter" and therefore I can't see that the scenario you describe is a fair comparison.

So give me a break with the "two faced" nonsense.

we have enough to deal with, with the media in this country doing their "evening things up" balanced "reporting" without us doing it for them.

I also think you seriously underestimate the Celtic support. "God Save the Queen" so what? Sure somebody somewhere would be annoyed by that and no doubt the Scottish media would delight in turning the spotlight on to reveal us as bigots whilst exhonorating the player. Fernando Ricksen a few years back anyone? -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger AbMucker COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 17:40 COMMENT-BODY:DBBIA

Always quality posts......always quality

Mucker
Away home to the wife -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 17:40 COMMENT-BODY:During the WC a German friend of mine bought me a German national strip as a present. I wore it proudly. My boy is half German ... so he´s technically a Hun or is he a hauf hun ?

HaufahunCSC -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger May67 COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 17:42 COMMENT-BODY:Read the Record in the pub at lunchtime - I know, I know, but sometimes you have to keep up with the enemy. Surprisingly their main comments on the back and inside back pages re Artur were to point out that the detail on the t-shirt would not have been visible to those fans inside the stadium; that it was only visible in close-up on TV; and that he was nowhere near the Rangers fans. They also expressed their amusement at Gordon Strachan's Myra Hindley comment.

Sadly, some of the columnists, notably Oor Murdo, were predictably outraged.

Having been at the game myself and having stayed until Artur left the pitch, the first I was aware of the t-shirt was when my nephew in London texted me about it. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger hass Bhoy COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 17:43 COMMENT-BODY:Paul,

I think I saw pretty clearly from my position in LL Upper that Artur approached the fans and threw his gloves and Shirt into the crowd. The t-shirt was definitly under the goalie shirt. As I couldn't see what it said from where I was, I initially thought it was a bad sign - player throwing shirt into crowd usually = leaving soon.

As a matter of fact, now that it occurs to me - unless the Rangers fans had super-duper vision, the vast majority of them would never have been able to make out what it said - he was right in front of my stand, albeit i'm in the 2nd ros of the upper teir, and I couldn't make out the writing, nor could anyone else sitting next to me...

And what about Novo at the end? Gesturing to the whole park, and highlighting he tattoo, which doubtless says "if found, please return to deepest darkest Peru..."

I would say that I dispair, but i don't really - there's now a horrible inevitibility when any Catholic dares to show his alegancies in this country.

On the "why don't you go home?" - no-one in the media picked this up yet? Imagine the outcry had that song been targetted at any other group or section of society. Can the club not come out condemn chants like that? Have to say, it's one of the most xenophobic things I've ever heard tolerated at a football match - to me it tops them being "up to their knees", as it's a chilling reminder of exactly what belefs these xenophobes like to pollute their childrens minds with.... -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 17:44 COMMENT-BODY:TonyBannans

Has Neil Alexander got a face like a melted welly ? -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger o1bhoy COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 17:46 COMMENT-BODY:I asked the question last night at half-time...When was the last time a Hoop scored a Hatrick against TFOD in Paradise...nobody new...

A. Stevie Chalmers in the 5-1 victory in 1966...

o1bhoy -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 17:47 COMMENT-BODY:http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/scotland/7371944.stm

I think we should demand a fee fay chick -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Stuart COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 17:48 COMMENT-BODY:Abmucker, good post!

I revel in your right as an Irishman to wave the Tricolor, and would be surprised if you had any affinity for the Union Flag.

I meant that to take offense at the Union Flag and be surprised that others take offense at the Tricolor is inconsistent (maybe two-faced is too strong).

I think that the club's Keltic history is a great thing, and the Keltic ethos (for want of a better word) is one of the world's great 'movements'. Scotland is also part of Britain (for now!) and we use the British tag when it suits us (1st british team...) Would we join a British Premier League? I think that most of the Celtic support are British (legally), with a large proportion being of Irish descent. I don't think the Union flag is flown at Celtic Park. There's a Saltire & a Tricolor and a EU flag and a UEFA flag and a Celtic flag and the league flag. (It's possible that the Union Flag is right above my head at the corner of the north & west stands) Given all those flags I'd say the Union Flag is a statement by omission.

I'm not passionately anti Union, but I think Scotland would be better off on it's own. I can't compare it to religious hatred, and don't really know how we got there.

I say it myself, but it worries me when I hear Celts saying we are better than them. It sounds like something they would say! Them and us doesn't sound as inclusive as i know the club and its support to be.

As I said before, there's a lot of history, and I'm not blind to it.

When I travel in Europe with the club, there's a feeling of "let's show TFOD up by having exemplary behaviour". I think that's the way to win this argument in general.

All the best to everyone on here. I'm a wee bit uncomfortable with the subject, but really enjoy the debate.

/S -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger gweedorebhoy COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 17:50 COMMENT-BODY:mick

Don't apologise Anyway who cares if some rag is flown what matters most is we fly the league championship flag next year.

All this talk of the butchers apron reminds me of after a game against fulham in london.

We met some great lads from the north and adjorned to a local hosterly. Seemed to be right next to a brit army barracks. I went to the bar and after fighting for 6 pints heard a loud chorus of "take it down from the mast".

i was walking back to the lads when all i saw was a fellow celt being chased by two army guys. Seems he climbed up the flag pole and replaced the butchers apron with the tri colour.

Was fantastic however it did get a bit out of hand when the butchers apron sort of vanished!

All ended well with the two brits walking off with celtic scarfs and resigned to the loss of their flag. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger malone19 COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 17:52 COMMENT-BODY:Is there not a body that you can report racism in football to?

Surely the vilifying of a person for celebrating their religion is to be considered racist in some form.

Had Zemama of Hibs been vilified in the way Boruc has for praying before or during a match there would be no way 'peepil' would get away with it.

But it's OK to hate Catholics.

The same applies for Rangers "go home" song. If they sang something similar to a support with a Jewish background about the holocaust what do you think the reaction would be?

Something has to be done because this will never change.

The anti-Catholic racism that is rife in the country can change, but only if the media play their part...

At the moment they are one of the causes not part of the solution.

Racism is a learned socialisation, Rangers fans have been 'programmed' to hate Irish/Catholics/Celtic/Tatties/green Pepperamis/Eggs Benedict etc. from birth - yes it's partly by their parents but it's also through the media.

You can't stop parents from being scum but you can stop the media. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Bhoy Sean COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 17:54 COMMENT-BODY:I don't see the similarities between Boruc wearing a GBTP t-shirt and the possibility of Alexander running around with a flag of the United Kingdom. On a basic level they both would be GIRUY gestures but they are also perfectly harmless symbols. It is what they symbolize which make those situations are vastly different.

Boruc’s gesture is him showing that he is proud of his faith. The reason why he feels compelled to do this is because of the abuse which he has received for being a Catholic: whether it is him getting cautioned by the police for having the temerity to bless himself while someone is calling him a f* b*, or by having banners ridiculing his religion. His actions were him taking a positive symbol in the image of the late Pope and using it in a manner which suggests he will not feel ashamed of his beliefs.

Alexander running around with a Union Jack flag would have a different message. It would be pandering to the crowds which sing such songs as “the famine’s over why don’t you go home?” It would be a symbol that says “we are the people and you are not welcome” basically. It takes up a more aggressive message in this situation than a Union Flag would do in normal situation, it would come across more like a BNP rally basically. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger o1bhoy COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 18:01 COMMENT-BODY:Re; T-Shirt debate...

I'm just glad it wasn't Raining yesterday... Because a Wet T-Shirt Competition has no place at a Football Match...

o1bhoy -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger One Star Means More COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 18:03 COMMENT-BODY:Macleye:

If Neil Alexander had been subjected to sustained religious abuse from our supporters, been issued with a police caution for a public expression of his religion, been yellow carded for waving in response to abuse, been rounded upon by the media in the country for the past 2 1/2 years and had then revealed a t-shirt with a simple expression of his faith, I would have said "Good on ye, son."

However, I think we are unlikely to be able to test that scenario in the foreseeable future. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Stuart COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 18:04 COMMENT-BODY:bhoy sean (1754),

In general I agree, but the problem is that we're infering intent in both cases. I'd like to see all explicitly racist / sectarian banners in stadia confiscated by the Police, and the singing of explicitly racist / sectarian songs punished at the individual and club level.

That'd be a hell of a start! -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger The Fighting Irish COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 18:08 COMMENT-BODY:Gregory Campbell DUP Bigot is comparing the Holy Goalie's JP2 GBLP T-shirt with Andy Goram's armband for King Rat in the Irish News

BIGOT in the highest order -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger bournesouprecipe COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 18:15 COMMENT-BODY:This post has been removed by the author. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger bournesouprecipe COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 18:17 COMMENT-BODY:now that the dust has settled it has been reported in certain celtic circles, that we are one fewer in number following a celtic win yesterday.

without wishing to preempt reportage, but since we champion injustice on this site, what is the celtic community to say when because our football team won we have a fan murdered. (allegedly)

how sick this country they are covering the artur boruc tea shirt story, and some mother has lost a son. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger TheGodfather COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 18:31 COMMENT-BODY:Why should Artur Boruc be villified for wearing a t-shirt of a fellow countryman, religious statesman and leader, a Time magazine man of the year and historically one of the most important men of his generation.

Why is it that in this depraved religious backwater a man can be villified for having a faith.

It is irrelevant whether the tshirt was a 'get it up you' or a wind up. It is a fact that being a Roman Catholic in Western Scotland is frowned upon.

'Artur Boruc - Voodoo no worky' receives no complaints. Up to our knees in fenian blood takes years to become unacceptable only to be replaced with Big Jock Knew?

Artur Boruc - Roman Catholic and Celtic Legend! -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Gordon_J COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 18:37 COMMENT-BODY:inkybhoy,

Like hass bhoy I was watching Arthur when he came to the crowd ( I sit in the front row of the LL Upper). Artur threw his gloves into the crowd, folowed by his jersey. The t-shirt was underneath, although my eyesight is nowhere near good enough to have read it at the time.

The first I knew the full story was on the radio when I got back to my car. There was some debate about what it said and then Chic Young said somthing along the lines of:

"I'll tell you exactly what it said: God Bless the Pope. And its those who have an issue with that who are the ones with the problem." -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger patnevinspen COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 18:37 COMMENT-BODY:Ahem.....


"Thus, when his team-mates were doing their head-spinning laps of honour that day at Easter Road, where they had just beaten Hibernian, Andrews went to the centre spot and knelt down to pray. If his message needed translating, it was there on the T-shirt that was revealed underneath his discarded Rangers shirt, from St Luke’s gospel: “The things that are impossible with men are possible with God.”


Was there an investigation, anyone know? -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger setting free the bears COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 18:44 COMMENT-BODY:I am not surprised at the feigned outrage of Leckie and the Sun et al about Artur. There is no subject that produces more confused thinking and vaguer definitions than bigotry and sectarianism.

I ignore most of it but I was appalled by Nil By Mouth being inveigled into the condemnation, expressing the view that a football match was no place for expressing political or religious views and that Artur's motivation was unimportant as he has a responsibility not to inflame the flammable.

So, I have spent some time in courteous conversation with them seeking clarification of their thinking. I now need your help to clarify something.

In the course of my reply, NBM's spokesperson described Celtic FC as proclaiming themselves a "non-religious and non-political" organisation in their Social Mission Statement.

Now I did not recognise this phrasing and read the Mission statement on the official site. It makes no mention of being non-anything but makes great play of being inclusive and pro-many things.

Can anyone tell me if I am looking in the right place? Is there somewhere we have described ourselves as non-religious. If not why is NBM describing us as such? -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger malceye COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 18:45 COMMENT-BODY:I have engendered many a reply on the scenario of Neil Alexander. Now, would those very same folks be kind enough to respond to the following point which was also made earlier -

"In a match which has been acclaimed as the world's biggest derby game, where the rest of the world continues to pitch it as the Catholics versus the Protestants (look at any European football magazine), gimmicks such as that only serve to continue the myth that it is divided along such religious lines."

Serpent - as for "Celtic is not a Scottish club." Whit !??!
That is a disgraceful assertion and merely plays into the hands of the "why don't you go home" brigade. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger StevieBhoy315 COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 18:47 COMMENT-BODY:Paul,

Long-time lurker but first-time poster. Have to say that I thoroughly enjoy this site and appreciate how balanced the majority of views are, although things did get a bit silly a month or so ago with some of the personal duals. That said, I think we all (apart from Ed obviously, although sometimes I think he is wavering) have the same goals and passion for our club. In fact, it is not just a club, it is a family and a way of life I don’t think supporters of other clubs understand.

Although delighted with the result and the majority of the performances yesterday, my enjoyment was reduced because of a rather stupid incident where I was so annoyed with one of the referee’s decisions (although on reflection and not having seen the game again, I suspect we got more than they did, although it didn’t seem so at the time) that I sat down and slapped my thighs incessantly (as I didn’t think the guys around me would appreciate me taking it out on them). In doing so, my wedding ring came off, where it landed, I do not know. I am therefore appealing to you and others to highlight my plight (awkward, but honest admission to the wife last night) and to ask whether anyone came across it.

The ring itself is not particularly expensive, but has the obvious sentimental value. It is a plain gold wedding band and also has a date inscribed on the inside. I sit in block 445 in the North stand (level with the bye-line) and appeal to anyone out there who may have come across it. I did speak to the security office after the game, but they were as much use as a chocolate teapot. I’m also waiting for a call back from Celtic Park, after being plunged into the usual telephonic abyss that is the hotline to Celtic.

Any help would be very much appreciated – I’m sure you can all imagine how bad I’m feeling about this. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger half and half COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 18:47 COMMENT-BODY:Paul 67,
There are those who would say we are the lot from Hibernia also, the old roman name for Ireland if my memory serves mecorrectly.

Good to see the traditional songs again, very uplifting and heartening. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger WGS COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 18:49 COMMENT-BODY:Paul67,

RE The Sun

I did today. Was wanting to see the pictures and reporting from Murray's poodles. Plus Kelly Brook is back on the market after splitting up with Billy Zane:) -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Gordon_J COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 18:53 COMMENT-BODY:setting free the bears,

"Celtic Football Club is for people who want to support a football club that strives for excellence in Scotland and in Europe, is proud of its history, supportive of its local community and seeks to support the following aims:

“To maximise all opportunities to disassociate the Club from sectarianism and bigotry of any kind. To promote Celtic as a Club for all people, regardless of gender, age, religion, race or ability.”

The club has not described itself as non-religious, simply as for people of all religions, and I might add, none.

Being against sectarianism does not make you pro-religious, never mind an advocate of any particular religion.

You don't have to be Catholic to take offence at the Rangers' fans songs and slogans. It would be like saying you can't be anti-racist unless you are black.


Our problem is that the media has fostered an image of the "Bigot Brothers" as supporters of some clubs call us. Right minded people know that attacking Artur's religious views is wormg, but then both lots as bad as each other, aren't they? Everyone knows that' don't they"

The best way for us to disassociate ourselves from bigotry would be to ban the term O** F*** and refuse to take any part in any joint marketing or sponsorship deals. No more guilt by association. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Bhoy Sean COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 19:07 COMMENT-BODY:Malceye

I agree that it does somewhat perpetuate that myth a bit but I still wouldn't condemn the actions of Boruc. The myth that we're defined as a Catholic club has been wrongly forced upon us throughout our history and I don't believe that us as fans, the players, or staff should ever have to hide our beliefs through fear that it might give people the excuse to justify their image of us.

On a side note my only problem with that label is that it is incorrect, I see no problem with a club being a Catholic, Protestant or even a Jedi club etc as long as they have a positive rather than discriminatory philosophy.

My view is that if we were to stop our players from standing up for their religious background because we fear that we will be labelled a Catholic club then we would be suggesting there is something sinister with Catholicism. It would make us complicit in accepting bigotry just as the media have always done. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger o1bhoy COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 19:07 COMMENT-BODY:StevieBhoy315...

There is something on Celtic Minded about a Ring being found...

o1bhoy -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger StevieBhoy315 COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 19:19 COMMENT-BODY:o1bhoy,

Thanks for the tip. I have now registered and can see the topic type but cannot access it. Anyone help? -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger setting free the bears COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 19:20 COMMENT-BODY:Gordon J

Thanks for the back up. I cannot see any part of our website which describes us as non-religious. Yet that was the description given to Celtic by Nil By Mouth in their reply to me. They are people who dedicate themselves to studying and campaigning against sectarianism. I would expect them to be better informed and more careful in how they present themselves.

They provided a couple of supportive quotes to the Sun's "Pope on a Dope" headline. Ironic or what?

Seeing an inclusive outlook as being non-religious is typical of the muddled thinking around such subjects. No wonder that people think the view that politics and religion have no place in sport is not, in itself, a bigoted and tainted position.

We do not discriminate between positive affirmations of a person's faith and aggressive demeaning of another persons beliefs. They are all to be treated as suspicious.

Now, don't get me wrong, I find the continued invoking of God in U.S. golf interviews pretty tiresome but I do not expect to be indulged in my prejudice. I don't expect it to be censored to please me.

It seems that Nil By Mouth would see religious expression confined to one hour on a Sunday to spare the non-religious amongst us. That makes the agnostic and atheists out to be bigoted as we cannot tolerate diversity that includes religion or, to be more precise, faith that guides all aspects of your approach to life, sport not excepted. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger PANGUR BAN COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 19:23 COMMENT-BODY:I sit LL Lower and 4th row from front. Artur took his gloves and top off and through them into the crowd to reveal the GBTP tshirt. Now my take on it is he done this in front of his beloved fans not the vile sectarian mob and i think the tshirt was in relation to the fans singing Holy Goalie. At no point did he face the enemy but was celebrating in keeping our season alive and going 5 CLEAR -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Tic Talk COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 19:24 COMMENT-BODY:Derby V Arsenal

HAIL! HAIL!
Stones are here! -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger PANGUR BAN COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 19:25 COMMENT-BODY:BAD SPELLING SHOULD HAVE BEEEN THREW. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger o1bhoy COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 19:26 COMMENT-BODY:Stevie...

Ditto here you could E-mail the link on the Registration page...or

One of the Lhads on here might access it for you Best o Luck...

o1bhoy -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger One Star Means More COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 19:30 COMMENT-BODY:Malceye:

"In a match which has been acclaimed as the world's biggest derby game, where the rest of the world continues to pitch it as the Catholics versus the Protestants (look at any European football magazine), gimmicks such as that only serve to continue the myth that it is divided along such religious lines."

Malceye: What Boruc has done is highlight the fact that the match IS divided along religious lines - the rabid Anti-Catholics vs the rest.

Now, given that you used the example of Neil Alexander, whose experience has in no way been comparable to that of Boruc, would you care to try again and come up with ANYONE in Scottish football who has endured the abuse directed at Boruc from so many sides (and who wasn't a Catholic)? -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger smelltheglove COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 19:32 COMMENT-BODY:Does anyone actually know what the Novo tattoo is? -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger locharbriggs_bhoy COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 19:32 COMMENT-BODY:I don't believe that Artur should have worn the T-Shirt. It was not offensive. Footballers, however, do not know where to stop and next thing you know the T-Shirts would be more and more outrageous. Wear a strip and that's all.

It is more of an issue that Artur gets booked and warned not to bless himself as it seems he is being picked on. You watch every time Benjy comes on for Hibs and he does the Islamic blessing where he touches his lips and his forehead. Never heard Wishart asking him to do that in the tunnel.

Either ban everyone or no-one.

Can you imagine the uproar if they tried to impose that on foreign teams coming to play in Scotland ? -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Bhoy Sean COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 19:33 COMMENT-BODY:PANGUR BAN

The slant which you took on the Boruc incident is different from the one which most have taken it (including me) and I think you're right. I took it to be a wind up from Boruc which isn't inconceivable since he doesn't mind a bit of banter but now you have said that it does seem more logical that his t-shirt is a nod to the Holy Goalie song which really does make it ridiculous that it has court any controversy at all. You are right to point out that he didn't go over to the Rangers fans wearing the t shirt. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Tic Talk COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 19:33 COMMENT-BODY:Artur was in the wrong in that he broke UEFA rules concerning slogans on t-shirt.He was not wrong in any other way.If his intention was to rile rangers `fans`then it only worked against those who watched on TV or read about it in the media. Unless some opposition `fans` were in with Celtic fans, it would have been impossible for any of them to read it.Regardless,I feel as many of us as possible should make some representation to UEFA regarding the obnoxious `Famine` song.
That, I hope, is my last word on the matter; I want to continue enjoying the victory `till 12.30 Saturdat when I will be nervous again for the duration of the match. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger canamalar COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 19:34 COMMENT-BODY:one star,
gordon strachan -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger PANGUR BAN COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 19:39 COMMENT-BODY:Bhoy Sean, I havent seen it on the box yesterday but thats all he did was salute his beloved fans also why has nothing been mentioned of wee fat coisty gesturing to the main stand.Only saw him making the main stand go in an uproar can anyone shed any light -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger patnevinspen COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 19:39 COMMENT-BODY:I say wind them up and irritate them as much as you can, but within the confines of the law and common decency.

The best way, of course, is just to keep humping their team on the field.

Cmon the hoops! -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger setting free the bears COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 19:40 COMMENT-BODY:stg

I believe it says

"remember no tae bless yoursel' at Ibrox, Ignatius"

Being a knuckledragger, he has the require arm space for that length of message. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Serpent's Tongue COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 19:40 COMMENT-BODY:Malceye...my statement was hardly disgraceful...this is nit-picking and pedantic but let me repost what I said as I suspect you have deliberately misconstrued it by ommitting the context...

"Celtic is not a Scottish club.

At the very least we have a dual identity and that is what makes us special. Billy McNeil has described Celtic as "an Irish club in Scotland". Where did Jock Stein ever say insinuate that this element was to be ignored?

I'm sure Brother Walfrid would view us as more than just a Scottish club."

As you are aware, I am saying that Celtic is not a Scottish club. It is not as simple as that. We are a Scottish-Irish club; an Irish club in Scotland; a Scottish club with Irish roots...however you want to phrase it.

It is a fact that we are not a Scottish club in the sense that Aberdeen or Dunfermline or anyone else is a Scottish club.

In a manouevre rather reminiscent of a red-top printing part of a quote without the necessary context, you merely posted that I said "Celtic is not a Scottish club" without adding my qualification, thus making it appear that I had denied the Scottish element altogether.

Tabloid sensationalism at its best (should that be worst?), my friend.

Celtic is not a Scottish club...it is much more.

Also, you didn't respond to my earlier question regarding your assertion about Jock Stein. How do you know his thoughts on the matter?

ST -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger One Star Means More COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 19:41 COMMENT-BODY:canamalar: Gordon Strachan has been abused from the stands, the police, and SFA for displaying his religion? -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Dennis 47 COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 19:42 COMMENT-BODY:About Alexander in a Rule Britannia tee shirt. I would not bat an eyelid either, but it does, I feel, make a difference that Artur wore his tee shirt at our place. Alexander, or any other of them, can surely do that sort of thin at Ibrox.
I hope the SPL or whoever really go for it. They'll make such a holy show of themselves. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger inkybhoy COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 19:44 COMMENT-BODY:Gordon J

As I said, the TV only showed it after it was out, no way of knowing if he had it on or got it later...

THE POINT BEING..

It is not a sectarian slogan or shirt.
The only people likely to get offended by it are the kind that like banging Lambeg drums outside chapels on First Communion day.


I think that Artur may have been showing some appreciation of the supporters who gave him the Holy Goalie song, a song he loves.

Interesting wee story on the whole Polish/Catholic/Celtic/Rangers type thang.....

Years ago a friend of mine, who went to the local non-denominational secondary school, was a huge Celtic fan, and still is a huge Celtic fan.

His family were originally Polish and he had a Polish surname, BUT they were not Catholic. They didn't practise any religion.

During PE at the school, while most of the other kids would have Rangers strips on, my mate would wear a T-shirt with the names and pictures of his three favourites Poles...one being John Paul II, the others being Jackie Djakinowski and Darius Dzubcek (Apologies for the spelling but it is a wee while ago).

You can't buy that kind of support......

STANDING UP -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Historyreader COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 19:45 COMMENT-BODY:SFTB 18.44

Celtic's Social Charter sits under corporate tab on the Celtic website. I think the Social Charter dates from Fergus McCann first year in business. Weren't Not The View involved with putting this together?

It has a section labelled "Bringing people together" which includes

Bringing People Together


The best that Celtic stands for is promoting health and well-being, understanding and positive social integration.

Celtic began in part as a way of using sport to bridge cultures between Scotland and Ireland. Celtic continues to seek ways to bring people together and create understanding.

Celtic has always been open to all. Several times in Celtic's history moves had been made to limit who can play for the Club. However the Club has always taken the decision to be open to all.

Celtic are proud of our Irish roots. The Club flies the Irish Tricolour on Match Days to mark our Irish heritage. Celtic's identity has been shaped as a Scottish Club with Irish roots. Celtic continues to honour this heritage in a variety of ways. Our many Irish fans show that our Irishness is not just something from the past.

The name Celtic was chosen as representing a common link between the Irish and Scottish cultures. Our founders were keen that Celtic Football Club would permit young people from the Catholic community in Scotland to be able to have sporting success as away of making their mark in Scotland and as a vehicle to show their achievement and worth.

The greatest Celt of all, Jock Stein, liked the Club and liked the people he worked with. Jock, like many other great Celts, came from a background which did not share Celtic's Irish culture. However Jock shared the same social background as the fans, and he viewed the fans as the lifeblood of the game.

Jock was always aware of the importance of Celtic's reputation and jealously guarded it. On one occasion Jock waded into the crowd at a game against Stirling Albion to tell fans to stop singing songs about politics in Ireland. He said these fans were "wreckers". Celtic Football Club believe that the way to support the ideals linked to Celtic is to sing songs in support of the football team and what it stands for.

Action to be taken
Celtic will act as a medium for promoting health and well-being. Celtic will support initiatives that offer hope to those affected by the scourge of drug misuse

Celtic will encourage positive links between the education sector and the Club through our Match Day Visit programme.

Celtic will act to expand links with Scottish schools to support learning in the areas of sport, health, social issues and personal and social development.
Celtic will act to promote positive social integration in partnership with others in schemes that bring people together to share positive values associated with the best in football.

Celtic will support schemes that seek to create bridges between different cultures and sectors of society within Ireland and Scotland.

Celtic aims to support schemes in Northern Ireland that have as their aim the building of bridges between different communities.

Celtic aims to promote schemes that enhance cooperation between communities in Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger brenlox COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 19:47 COMMENT-BODY:Hello All,

Couldn't give a toss what the huns or the media say about the The big man. The most important issue yesterday was for us to win. And win we did.

Nuff said.

By the way if we win this league I will need about a week off.
Hail Hail. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger canamalar COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 19:50 COMMENT-BODY:one star, you referred to the neil alexander analogy and I took it you were looking for further analogies, not necessarily along religous lines, as I dont think that was along religous lines. However I believe GS has been abused in a similar manner to AB, but just without religon. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Nae Bread come on the 'tic! COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 19:51 COMMENT-BODY:NON Story !

If rangers had won we would have had the back pages and inner 3 pages on the wonderful r*ngers, on watties hoo doo, only swallys joy and mini me's masterplan defection. As their collective bottles are wobblin they stick Boruc on the back page rather than give us the praise we deserve. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger smelltheglove COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 19:52 COMMENT-BODY:Does anyone know the problem between skippy and mick? -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger setting free the bears COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 19:53 COMMENT-BODY:History Reader

Thanks again. that's the bit i read earlier and it includes statements I can support.

At no point does it describe Celtic as Non-religious or non-political. Yet Nil By Mouth have chosen to defend their condemnation of Artur on that ground.

Jock may have had issues with fans singing at the heights of The Troubles but I don't think he'd have stopped anyone from blessing the Pope. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Mick COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 19:55 COMMENT-BODY:Derek Ferguson on hun tv

I don't know what this negative football is, rangers played really well and were unlucky not to lose.

re:goals for Celtic

1st goal definitely offside

2nd goal lucky deflection

3rd goal soft pen I don't think it was one

JVoH that was assault should have walked. Whittaker never a red card

Fair and unbiased summary from derek -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Dennis 47 COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 19:56 COMMENT-BODY:Parkheadcumsalford,
Yes I clearly saw the unbookable Barry glare contemptuously at the ref and mouth an obscenity. There's no way he did not see - if not hear - it.
One journalist today described Ferguson as unremittingly cantankerous. He failed to mention the Rangers captain's apparent immunity from discipline. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger setting free the bears COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 19:57 COMMENT-BODY:stg

They had a big fall out about who hated nacho most.


Honestly, young footballers squabbling and fighting is a dog bites man story. It is of no importance.

We have a fascination for training ground gossip way out of proportion to its importance. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger One Star Means More COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 19:58 COMMENT-BODY:Has anyone stopped to consider that Artur might genuinely wear this T-shirt for hi sown reasons?

Robert Kubica has a reference to Pope JPII on his F1 helmet every time he races. Is that allowed or might it cause offence? -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Zbyszek COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 19:58 COMMENT-BODY:I said in the early afternoon that there was only short note about Boruc T-shirt in the Polish media. Now information about SFA waiting for the report makes the diference. Some of our media are looking for more details.
Good job Rangers. Keep it going. Artur will stay untill the end of his life with Celtic.
I'm off to see Fabianski's debut for Arsenal.

Paul :) -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Historyreader COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 20:00 COMMENT-BODY:SFTB

There is another section in the Social Charter about Caltic being open to all. It reads
Being Open To All

The best that Celtic stands for is an inclusive organisation being open to all regardless of age, sex, race, religion or disability.

Celtic has always been a Club willing to offer a welcome to all.

Action to be taken
Celtic acts as an inclusive organisation being open to all regardless of age, sex, religion, race or ability.
Celtic offers a welcome to all who come to Celtic Park and asks that they conduct themselves in a manner which reflects well on themselves and on Celtic.

Celtic aims to improve the conditions in which fans watch and participate in order to maximise the enjoyment of individuals and the crowd attending games as Celtic supporters. The Club seeks to provide a quality service for all its customers.
Celtic will adopt an equal opportunities policy in the areas of employment and service provision.
Celtic will aim to increase the attendance of children at football and aim to promote their participation in sport through a variety of activities. Celtic will aim to have close links with education authorities, schools and community groups through our Match Day Visits.

Celtic will act against racism and sectarianism in any form. Celtic will not tolerate actions and language that seek to promote racism and sectarianism. Celtic aims to support the guidelines issued by the Commission for Racial Equality.
Celtic aims to positively respond to the needs of all supporters to ensure that all fans are enabled to overcome any barriers to their participation in support of the Club. Celtic will consult with supporters with disabilities, sensory impairment or learning difficulties to ensure that the Club meets their needs as supporters.

Celtic will be pleased to work together with all organisations and bodies that share such aims for football. The Club will consult with employees, shareholders, supporters and supporters’ representatives to ensure that all share the aims of Celtic’s Social Charter. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger madeira bhoy COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 20:00 COMMENT-BODY:At 28/04/08 18:47, StevieBhoy315 said…


Steviebhoy, there was a post on celticminded that someone found a wedding ring. I'll see if i can find it and post the details. Hope its yours or else your in **** for the rest of your life -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger madeira bhoy COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 20:03 COMMENT-BODY:Derek whyte
Member

Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 70
found a wedding ring at the game
as above, north west upper 445 row u seat 16 found it after the
second goal for celtic if who ever lost it can tell me what's
ingraved inside the ring i'll make arangements to return it .


from celticminded

Someone else has mentioned on the thread about seeing your post and the guy has said to ask what was engraved inside.

If you want to pm me i can pm him and see if i can pass on your details. Or email me on signup@netmadeira.com -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Historyreader COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 20:04 COMMENT-BODY:Just to finish off almost posting all of the Social Charter. Obviously for some Celtic fans "devoted encouragement" and "faithful support" doesn't stretch to Gordon Strachan's team.

Renowned Qualities of Our Supporters


The best that Celtic stands for is the renowned qualities of its supporters and their relationship with the Club.

Celtic fans are renowned wherever they travel for their passion and love for the game of football. In addition when the fans carry with honour the image and colours of the Club they act in a way that brings credit to Celtic and reflects well on the good name of the fans and the Club.

Action to be taken

The supporters, the Club and its owners have high expectations for the team on the field and a high regard for the fans.

The management and employees of the Club aim to provide the best quality service to the fans and aim to live up to their expectations for success for the Club. The Club should continue to improve the service it provides to its customers.

Celtic will continue to listen to and respect the advice and opinions of its supporters and endeavour to consult and communicate with the fans.

The fans play a vital part in ensuring the success of Celtic Football Club. The fans inspire the team and contribute to the Celtic spirit.

The Celtic spirit among the fans means devoted encouragement and faithful support for the team. Celtic fans know the history of the Club and are committed to the ideals associated with the founding of the Club.

Celtic asks all fans to ensure that they live up to best that Celtic stands for. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger WGS COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 20:04 COMMENT-BODY:Anybody now who was singing "Let the People Sing" before the game on Sunday. Was it charlie and the bhoys? -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger patnevinspen COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 20:04 COMMENT-BODY:One Star...

very good point...I'd forgotten about Robert Kubica. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger patnevinspen COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 20:07 COMMENT-BODY:You can see the reference to JP11 here:###

http://img.interia.pl/motoryzacja/nimg/Kubica_swoim_debiucie_961526.JPG -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Lardo66 COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 20:08 COMMENT-BODY:Thanks Inky @1709. When I meet said journo again I'll bring up the 'I voz only following orders'!!
Iquite like the guy but that story- put out on the front page- reeked of incitement to me. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Gordon_J COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 20:08 COMMENT-BODY:"Celtic Football Club is a Scottish football club with proud Irish links."

Says it all really. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Benjy Bhoy COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 20:11 COMMENT-BODY:My understanding of 'bouncy bouncy' is that it imitates the actions of loyalist thugs that killed a guy during the troubles by stamping on his head? Is this true? -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger canamalar COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 20:14 COMMENT-BODY:blog broke again ?? -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Mymum'scousin COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 20:14 COMMENT-BODY:Hmmmm, not so sure about all this. I know I'm going to annoy a few fellow fans here, but i am pretty uncomfortable with the t-shirt, and indeed, singing pretty foul songs about Nacho Novo's premature demise to the tune of a favourite hymn of mine.

I'd rather keep religion out of it altogether. Otherwise, we lower ourselves to that lot's heinously low level.

I've also had a bit of an issue with Artur blessing himself on occasion in front of them the way he has done a few times. I know he always does it and has every right to do so. I just think, if we're being 100% honest here, he uses it a bit against the FODs. At mass on Sunday, the priest (Father Speedy Gonzalez at St Ninians, Knightswood 30 mins guaranteed btw!) said the 2 most important commandments are love the lord your god, and love your enemy. Some of this doesn't fit somehow.

Hell, even as I write this I can feel the replies coming. I'm genuinely not trying to wind anyone up - yesterday was a great confidence boost and victory. Just before half-time I would have done anything to stop that bl00dy bouncy nonsense. We did just that in the best way possible - on the park. Sent them homewards to think again. But I do think Artur uses his (and my) religion as a weapon to counter the bile he receives each week. I think if Alexander did have a t-shirt saying 'God save the Queen' (or God save The Moderator to be precise!) there would be serious repercussions from us. I hate to think what might have happened if we lost and he did that.

We do suffer from racism, we do suffer from sectarianism. I just think there is a way of dealing with it that shouldn't involve using religious figures, symbols, songs or whatever. We have UEFA, we have Brussels (and we've so far come out rather well with those bodies in my opinion - the tides are changing - of course a lot of this bile still exists (I wouldn't deny that for one nano-second) I'm just saying we have a part to play in it all as well.

Some of that comes from what is perceived to be our lack of willingness to let go of our Irish foundations. I am very proud that all my grandparents are Irish, but I also want to be part of a progressive Scottish society. People move on, times move on, and yes, we should never lose that part of our identity. But perhaps we have a bigger part to play in all this than we think? It's time to use the head. Use examples, not to cry wolf at absolutely everything, pick our moment, and make strong, strong arguements that are impossible to argue against. E.g Back Tartan Day in New York, and then say we're looking forward to all the Glaswegian/Scottish politicians from across the spectrum coming out for St Patrick's Day for the many thousand people of Irish descent in this our (relatively new) home.

Remember, we are not a Roman Catholic club, we are a club for ALL religions or those with no religion. (Only one club had a religious issue for so long, let's keep it that way.)

To the game - 3 points. 9 more please. Paul, you've read my mind a cupla times over the past week. First was to point out the apostrophe mistake in that Rankers banner. Corker. Second was the 'second-hand' celebrations of non goal-scoring players of late. I actually noticed it a week before the Skippy one you aluded to. I think it was the Aberdeen game. Bobo, Wilson, Mick (obviously), Hartley (obviously) and one or 2 others punched the air like it REALLY meant something to them. For me, that has been the most significant shift over the past while. It's like our players are beginning to 'get it' what it takes and what it means to play in the hoops.

Finally, to that McGrory banner - told the old dear, she was delighted!

There's too much bile out there people, let's keep a bit of perspective. They are our biggest rivals and probably always will be, so by all means have a right good pop at them, and support anyone playing against them, but let's do it in the spirit of the great club we love, and keep religion out of it.

Forza Firenze! Mon the Hibs! Mon the Doonhammers!

Well done to all those who kept supporting the players and manager during the recent monthus horribulus, when we were sinking a bit. Keep up the good work fellas.

(Almost bought some old media today for the first time in 2 years. Almost.)

MMC -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger Nae Bread come on the 'tic! COMMENT-DATE:28/04/08 20:16 COMMENT-BODY:Benjy Bhoy on bouncy

Dont think so, I think it predated the ireland thing, although it is said those resposible did the bouncy as bravado. Not one r*ngers fan I know had heard of the link. -------- COMMENT-AUTHOR:Blogger