Central midfield still haunting Celtic

first

goal

AU

ulster-celt

Paul Caddis CSC

I got first.

Why haven't I leaped yet Al?

paul67

if we are going to sign another midfielder

are there to be departures

this area of our squad is almost as overcrowded as the huns attack

Paul

Would you class Shaun Maloney as a forward or a midfielder? ;-)

Paul67

the play was improved by Naka returning. on yesterdays showing I think he should be given a central role,between midfield and attack. he is wasted out wide. one up front will do.

also is the possibility of Sean Davis signing still a goer.

ulster-celt

Chris Sutton:

previous thread - magic.

So which of our midifelders can play the passing game? Naka and Aiden definitely, Marc Crossas presumably, Scott Brown maybe.

And Shaun Maloney could.

centre midfield is a problem but its far from the only 1.

a distinct lack of movement and technical ability up front from all 3 strikers is also a major issue.

Michele C - had to ask. Thanks for replying.

Brown took some stick after yesterday, but he seemed up for it. Although first touch at times let him down, he seemed to be playing a more 'getting forward' game, the attribute that made him a stick out in the Hibs side he played in.

Unfortunately for Scott, Paul Hartley was doing the same, and got us the goal.

STANDING UP...please remain calm

It would be interesting to see Naka in the middle of the park with young Caddis playing outside him on the right.

Again though I only think you could deploy that set up in a 5 man midfield.

Aiden Hartley Robson Naka Caddis (Left to Right)

I liked SBs' performance yesterday, a lot more controlled positionally and played reasonably well. Hope he keeps that up.

Paul67, spot on. Couldn't have put it better if I tried.

Let's remember though, we are only 2 weeks into the season and although not the best of starts we WILL push on to 4-in-a-row.

TOINFINITYANDBEYOND-IN-A-ROW

Hail Hail

Best move of the game - Naka exchanges passes with Wilson and Mcgeady in deep left midfield, moves the ball out to Brown in right centre, who releases Hinkel to the byeline.

NakaInTheMiddle CFC

I can't believe the Management team are still confused about who to play in midfield

time to put robson into central midfield as Paul says, the boy robson was THE influential factor in us winning 3 in a row

how about him now getting some reward for that

sticking to 4-4-2 is murder as well Paul shun
surely we can try a few different formations
as i have said to you before, how about trying this

Boruc

Caldwell McManus
Hartley

Caddis Robson Brown NEW Left Back

McGeady Nakamura

Vennegoor of Hesselink

Effectively a 3-5-2
cant be any worse than watching what we are the now

how many games do we watch Celtic and see so many players in our own half not doing anything

GET UP THE PARK FFS

time to be bold with a new formation and i think this one would suit the team perfectly

I'm prepared for a roasting, but I believe, given time, Evander Sno will blossom into a quality mid that can play in our hoped for passing game.

Gordon_J,

Don't forget Donati. Without seeing Crosas I still think the Italian is second only to Naka in terms of his all round passing game.

More from the Celtic Supporters Guide To How It’s Done Five Goals to Make You Smile. That is if you remember how to.

workshytim

Do you have a realistic solution for the issue you identify?

Would you prioritise a new forward over a new LB for example or split the budget and buy both?

I think the forwards we have scored sufficient goals last season to suggest we should hang fire at least until January.

SwanseaBhoy

BigSwee

naka could play centre mid of a 3. alongside brown. and maybe crosas if he is the player we hope he is.

and put caddis at right back. too small to play in defence? too quick NOT play in defence given the distinct lack of pace from the rest including loovens. attacking full backs are in much demand throughout europe and hinkle isnt performing at the moment

Hartley & Crossas for me against Falkirk.

Mcgeady and Naka on the wings.

From previous post:

Helicopter Thursday
No chance but there are 2 reasons for that though.
The 1st is that i done my cruciate ligament playing for Hamilton FPs in Nov 2002. It was the saturday after we played Blackburn at home in the Seville run and that's the main reason i remember the year.
Anyways, the result was 2 operations and 3 years out. I still play 7's at the Bent or the Jock Stein every week though. I've only played 1 game of elevens since then. It was 2 weeks ago for a charity event with work. It was hard hard work as i had to play the full 90 mins. A few guys didn't show so no subs.

Oh yeah, the other reason is that i'm in the 14-15 stone department now. All muscle my wife says.

Still faster than Scott McDonald though... ; )

What's your name? i'm sure i'll remember you, did you go to Belgium with Fairhill?

Lazarus
Were you talking to him? He stays in the jungle these days.
He keeps telling me i got all my footballing ability (not that there was much) from my Papa, (his dad). Now i know why ha ha

Inkybhoy
No problem, My surname is more common in Scotland than you'd think. There isn't a week goes by that someone doesn't mention it or ask if i know someone with the same one. You'd be surprised how many times the answer is no.

Michele

Having to spend some time in Joburg, South Africa on biz.
Have been on Celtic bars and nothing there for watching games.
Can anyone assist or knows of a Celtic pub or pubs to tune in?
Especially with Rankers game coming up on Aug 31st

Chris Sutton, i agree re. Sno. He will flourish into a class act but will have left us by that time.

Paul:

Can Basa play LB?

Or

Will it be Loovens at LB and Basa at CH?

Hail Hail!

Paul67,

I thought we played reasonably well for around an hour yesterday, I thought we never at any point dominated the midfield. For around 10 mins before Utd scored we were 2nd to evry ball in front of our back 4 and it looked like Utd would score.

Brown tore around a lot but didn't really play particulalry effectively, Hartley contributed his usual shift. Do you think we are actively looking at a playmaker type of midfielder or a runner?

Its a right old conundrum this middle of the park bit. I still prefer an evolutionary approach.

Hartley / Robo was a revelation in the run-in and should be retained for now.

Wilson looks like he might be finding a bit of form and does a better job on the 'wrong' foot than Naylor. Fact is McGeady didn't make the most of the best wide support he's had in many a game.

We need similar for Naka and in Caddis could have it sitting on our bench. With an 'over-lapper' Naka can drift inside more and we'll surely get more from him?

The Caddis for RB clique - 'Never mind his height, he'll do awright' (awaiting more inventive slogan - Lennondinho?)

Chris Sutton

No roasting from me....I think Sno has got the attributes to be a top player but looks as if the coaching staff are willing to let him go if rumours are correct about accepting bid from Osasuna

PAul - can you confirm this was the case?

So Robinson and Maloney to sign tomorrow?

yes - Agreed - Sno will become Hollands no1 midfielder in the next 5 years.
his ability is good he just needs the experience and also getting used to the speed of the scottish game.

does anyone else think that (passing apart) Celtic need someone with a little bit of height in the middle of the park?

Brown played well and he is looking very hungry, McGeady has too much to do, and yes, in effect Barry Robson stole the league from Rearangers, he needs to play in the centre of midfield.

meaculpa,

from CelticBars.com

SOUTH AFRICA - THE IRISH CLUB, CNR 4th & 5th ST, LINDEN, JOHANNESBURG (Tel: +27 84 33 16284) (Johannesburg CSC) www.irishclub.co.za

Hail hail

Chris Sutton,

Donati exasperates me. At times he looks a player; at others he misplaces so many passes.

I am a fan of Sno though. The Dutch obviously rate him and they tend to know a little about midfielders. I can see him becoming a star somewhere else.

A strong central midfield needs outlets both front and wide. I dont understand that when McGeady and Naka have the ball we do not deploy attacking wing backs to give us width and stretch the opposition. The two full backs are too defensive ( bearing in mind we play a flat back four against teams who play only one forward against us!) Also our defence is too straight and play only "defending" football by playing the ball across the back four.This coupled with the lack of strong presence in midfield makes us too narrow and allows other teams to sit in and constrict our offensive players and strikers.
We should look at Wilson and Hinkel ( and another ) as attacking wing backs to allow midfielders like Aiden and Naka to have an "out" and return pass then we will have these guys attacking alongside the forwards rather than this predictable rigid formula which allows every opposition team to squeeze our midfield and defend in depth against us. We should be open and wide and play the Celtic way, we have the ability in Naka, Aiden and even Scott Brown.
We are a very straightforward team to play against whilst we deploy such a rigid system. Watch Falkirk put a floating 5th player in central midfield to double as an additional defender and to spread the ball wide to allow breaks

I've been dead against resigning Shaun from the start, but it now goes without saying that he would improve this team enormously.

Hail Hail

Michele, what your wife says about your muscle is none of my business ;)
I did go on the famous trip to Belgium....Craig McCartney is the name. I saw you around Hamilton quite a bit after that trip but have been working away for around 4-5 years now but still return to Hamilton a few times a year.

I played with Ferneigair right up until I moved away but dont manage much 11's these days.

Our problems are deeper than the midfield

Who would put their mortgage on JVOH or the Little Aussie on taking their only chance in a game?

We should have won that game yesterday 3 - 2, both of our front players missed sitters, and Utd's penalty claim was a stonewaller, although THG would probab;y have saved it anyway.

The problem is we dont do what the song says, play football the Glasgow Celtic way. We are too defensive, there is very little pace going forward, apart from McGeady, and he is still a long way from the finished article. Maloney might help, but its a bit of back to the future for me, he wasnt great first time round, whats changed ?

With Skippy's early season form, or lack of it, and our plethora of midfielders I can't see why we don't at least try and give a 4-5-1 a go. It need not be a defensive formation.

I hope Sno gets another chance this season but it doesn't look good for the lad.

Moonbeams; Lubo1977,

I fear that too. I'll be both happy for the guy and gutted for us if he develops into the quality mid he can be somewhere else other than Parkhead.

west wales celt

how about

"never mind his height, cause Hinkel is sh***"?????

Central Mid might be a bit of a problem for us, however we do have the potential there to be very strong for some time to come.

Crosas, Brown, Sno, are all regarded (by cleverer football folks than me) youth or full internationals. If, as it appears, folk have lost faith with Donati, then a hard working, world class, creative, mid player would definately be a bonus........now there must be loads of them queing up to play in the SPL every week.

The best news for me from attending the game at Ibrox this weekend was that the new lad Mendis clearly thinks it is his ball, so there will be an interesting debate when Barry asks for it back in a couple of months !

Paul67> a well worded and tempered article, if as you say " I believe may well sign a further midfield player soon"..this is going to overwhelm the squad numbers for midfield..

My guess is that hopefully to moves out will happen sooner rather than later.. not naming names as we all know who they are...
13 days left until the window slams...numbered days for those heading out the door.. if we move out players quicker then we can recruit quicker...
its a shame some transfers havent worked out such as TG that you mention..however the collective wages of the other deadwood must be an unsustainable burden..

is it me or have my green tinted glasses faded with all the maloney stuff?
why live in the past? yeah he did ok when he was here but he left with a bad smell...celtic gave him a contract when he spent months out injured and repaid us by grabbing more money when he was offered.. likewise Miller....are they better players now than they would be if they had stayed? who can tell..J titor? ;-)
there are other targets on the radar shurely..

hopefully some perspective will return to the blog, understandable kneejerking yesterday (patellar tendon reflex-(PTR)) but we must look forward..
righty im off out soon, backshift in bedlam for me...
slan
aldo

You've hit the nail firmly on the head, Paul. It would appear that a potential cure for the malaise that affected the team for large chunks of last season and the two games played thus far in the current campaign lies in manager's willingness to realise he has made another expensive mistake.

Don't get me wrong. I am glad Scott Brown is at Celtic Park, but what we have seen of him so far (and before anyone brings it up, I am aware of the tragic death of his sister) suggests we've overpaid by c£2m.

He is by no means a write off, but I think using him as a sub would probably benefit both him and the team alike.

Paul,
I have given CQN a wide berth since yesterday's game. I can only imagine the vigour of some posts.....

Central midfield? Too many 'specialist players'. Naka and Aiden are too wide....too far away from Scott Brown. Hartley is a 'specialist' holding player....more often than not behind SB. Result? 3 opponents in an area where we only have one player.

Gordon is going on about passing the ball 10 yards. This is no good if the players you are looking for are 30 yards away.

You are right in pointing out the improvement when Robson was played there. Him and Hartley played together. We had 2 against the opponents 3....it helped.

I'd get 3 guys in there to get the ball, keep the ball, pass the ball....and have one floater. Our midfield is too easy to play through.

As for signing more midfielders...we have quite a collection there already. I think that many who have failed have done so for the reasons I have mentioned.

All that being said, I am away to work to do what I get paid for, and I'll leave Gordon to do what he is paid for.

Afternoon all.

The team I'm waiting to see is-

Boruc

Caddis Loovens O'Dea Wilson

Naka Robson Crosas McGeady

Jan Skippy

With subs from- McManus, Wilson, Mizuno, McCourt & Samaras.

We should then play with a 'concede 3 to score 4' mentality. ;)

Surely we'd tear the SPL apart. The other teams would pay the EPL to let us in!

Madeirabhoy, (from last thread)

Thanks for your reply. They have spent circa £18m, that's a crazy amount of money for anyone to spend in Scotland. There is no doubt they are stronger. We also have to believe they will buy a centre back and take the spending to £20m and maybe beyond. You can knock Murray for who he sold, and we all thought he was recouping his £50m share input, but clearly he has not. If you remember last year when we sold players, we delivered great accounts with a profit of £15m, Murray spent what he got in.

If you think what we have is stronger than they have then you and I need to disagree, we are an average Celtic team who play very boring football.

I hope I am wrong, but unless our two signings are special, then I do think we will struggle.

Once again Murray has let his heart rule his head when it comes to football business. There is an argument to be had that say's we are doing the right thing, I am simply making the point that they will have spent more money this close season than all the other SPL clubs put together, they mean business.

Regarding Maloney - if all our current players are fit and on form who does he replace?

There's many on here berating the club for signing more squad players and at the same time hoping we bring him back, but for me Maloney's not head and shoulders above anybody we currently have so to my mind he's just another squad player and he'd probably be quite an expensive one at that.

Gordon_J,

I echo your comments regarding Massimo Donati. It's all the more exasperating as you can tell he has the ability. I referenced him in regard to your question of best passers in our midfield.

If he could show some sort of consistency then we'd be laughing.

ooh meant to say maybe the common denominator is Brown...???

the article could read " lee naylor hasnt had much luck with his defensive partners...." ;-)
slan
aldo

(Did of course mean Caldwell instead of Wilson on the bench...)

lenny18 - i agree 100%.

there is an old saying, "if your good enough your old enough"

IMO the same goes with height and any other physical attribute and Caddis would most definatley bring something else, to the team with his speed and direct approach.

Strachan obviously rates him as he played him up against Lenny 18's name sake.

Dear ExiledCelt

"Maloney might help, but its a bit of back to the future for me, he wasnt great first time round..."

mmmmmmmmm...........

Scottish PFA Player of the Year (2006)
Scottish PFA Young Player of the Year (2006)
Celtic Fans' Player of the Year (2006)
Scottish Players Player of the Year (2006)

16 goals from midfield.

You sure about that ?

Big Wavy

Agree 100% Paul, that the centre of midfield is one of our biggest problems. No-one makes the runs to get beyond the strikers. How many goals were scored last year from central midfield. You don't score goals if the central midfield players do not get into the positions and they're not doing that.

Early, early days obviously, but there's nothing that we've seen so far that makes us think that there's anything different there.

We have missed this part of Stan Petrov's game massively - getting beyond strikers. Especially in games like yesterday when the strikers have an off day.

Ironically, the man you mention in this article - Tommy Graveson - is probably the best at the club at getting beyond strikers and into goalscoring positions - BUT - it's at the expense of holding defensive positions at certain times and having the discipline to track opponents. I agree with WGS's position re TG but there's no doubt we lack that central midfield attacking role.

Scott Brown does not do it well enough and I wonder if he ever will. He's young and will continue to learn and develop, but my worry is this. He made a name for himself largely due to excellent performances at places like Celtic Park and Ibrox where that Hibs team played a classic counter attacking style of football. Scott revelled in such scenarios because his game NEEDS space. He has an excellent engine, can make lung bursting runs, but (at this stage of his development anyway) he struggles if he is denied space.

And space is one commodity that he will be denied in just about every game he plays for Celtic. The only time I can remember him making the type of trademark run for us in the same way as he did at Hibs was versus Spartak Moscow in the away game. A great run and brilliant link-up play with Aiden. He should've scored, but that's not the point. The point is that he will do well in a team that has the opportunity to counter attack regularly. That will not be the case at Celtic, so he'll need to develop other strengths if he is to succeed.

It must be a rude awakening to players who with previous clubs flourished with the amount of space they got only to find it consistently denied in the SPL with Celtic.

On a slightly different note, I would welcome the comeback of Shaun Maloney. Strange for me to say, because I am usually totally against taking players back for the 2nd time. The only one I can remember it working for was Bertie Auld. But Shaun is young enough and good enough to make it work I think. And he would definitely give us options for splitting these packed defences that we currently seem to lack.

Tully.

Bhoydell - player for player, where do you think Rangers are stronger than us?

Afternoon all!

Anybody else think that Mark Wilson played very well yesterday? Why not him for the left back position? Naylor looked good against St Mirren before he got injured. So whilst a new TOP QUALITY left back would be great they are thin on the ground in our price bracket.

Hinkel does not look comfortable at all at right back particularly against any pace and he was at fault for the Dundee Utd goal, turning his back on the ball then a stupid wee hop to try to make contact with the ball in the air. What Gary Caldwell was thinking NOT trying to stop the cross is beyond me. He showed us yesterday the side of his game that from time to time scares the pants off us. What was he thinking with that tackle for the penalty that was not given? Madness!

Middle to front is our real problem, Naka gave a much better balance to the team yesterday and if he had stayed on I think we would have won the game. Brown continues to flatter to deceive and defensively against the pace of the central midfield of Dundee Utd yesterday Hartley looked his age.

Why not Brown and Robson next week or Brown and Crosas against Falkirk to introduce the Barca Bhoy to Celtic Park? If Gordon thinks that Brown is not going to make it at Celtic then now is the time to drop him and give Crosas and Robson a chance together? Maybe even Donati would shine with a good holding midfielder in Crosas beside him as he has the best range of passing amongst our current midfield and in pre-season seemed to have added some dig to his play.

If we are still in the market for another midfielder then we need a clearout of some players sharpish!

Don’t know what is wrong with Skippy but looks bereft of confidence, his first touch is still poor (does he not work on that in training?) and still does not lift his head enough albeit he did well to set up JVOH yesterday who should have scored and put the game to bed.

Hope that Hutchinson has some pace, as we need a different approach in some games. Samaras should have been on earlier yesterday though as Scott was having a mare or a game.

We have a good squad potentially but need a settled central midfield with more ability to hold onto the ball and mobility that we currently have to support the front men and break up attacks. Naka looked good in central midfield yesterday when spraying passes but this would necessitate a 4-5-1 formation to make this work or a 3-5-2, which we know the Gordon does not favour.

No need to panic yet, far from it but a couple of signings would lift the mood of the support and generate some more competition for places. I for one would take Maloney back in a heartbeat, but we will see……….

Hail Hail!

RobinBhoy

Far too much negativity from some on here!!

Strachan Must Go ................ Why? Which of his signings were we against at the time of signing? Brown? Don't remember too many complaining when we stole him from Rangers. Boruc, the best Goalie we have had at the club in 20+ years. Hinkel, sounded like a good buy as did MacDonald, Big Jan, Hartley, Robson, so why get rid of Gordon on his signings?

Tactics? Well maybe WGS has a way he envisages the club playing and he has over reacted to big Bobo's punts up the park by trying to pass the ball aka Barca against us. Trouble is we don't yet have the players who can do that yet and unfortunately the players seem to think they are only allowed to play the one way throughout the team, only Wee Aiden seems to be able to shoot from outside the box.

On Aiden, still a tremendous prospect but a long way from being Premiership standard, some of his shooting when the ball breaks to him is absolutely DIRE. Sure he will improve but sometimes you know within first 20 minutes if he is on his game, so hopefully with McCourt and Mizuno (and maybe even Maloney) we shouldn't need to witness Aiden's struggles - albeit he is still exciting, but it isn't fair being a circus act when your colleagues don't help!

Yes we need new players, but some who have had their chance need to be moved on before any more youngsters are sold off - Killen, Riordan (ok we have a soft spot and don't believe he has been given a chance, but you get the feeling he has not developed as a player or a person in the last 2 years!), Doumbe, Balde, Gravesen etc. Even if we lose money surely Hutchison is potentially the future more so than Killen; Scott Cuthbert more than Bobo; and Siman Ferry more than Gravesen, in fact even Sno probably deserves another year before Gravesen!

The players we have are good enough to win in Scotland, but did we need to pay 4.5 million on Scott Brown to win in Scotland? While he obviously had concerns at home last season, at the end of the day Scott's best contribution was getting suspended, so well worth the money! Caldwell and Big Mick best defence in Scotland. Hartley a good solid pro, even Mark Brown good enough for us to win the league.

So if I was to complain about wee Gordon it would be that with Peter Lawwell we need 2 strategies, 1 for Scotland and 1 for Europe. In Boruc and arguably JVoH we have 2 European players, we have McGeady and Naka, and arguably Robson, Donati and now Loovens and Crosas who could reach our Euro team. Gordon doesn't have a job at Celtic he has at least 2 jobs that for the past 3 years he has done very well.

If we were to lose Gordon, who would you get? I am a fan of Mark Hughes, but be honest if he had taken us to the defeat that Man City had in Europe during the week far too many would be calling for his head again! Davie Moyes? Many Everton fans are worrying about his team building and yet we don't even know if he can win anything!

So to all who want Strachan out please either support what we have in the hope they can reach their potential or have a real think of who could do better than wee Gordon with the financial constraints placed upon him and stop falling into the Daily Record dream of the Greatest Fans in the World turning against our manager because we are blinkered either bigotted or by not being Irish.

Our club has employed Josef Venglos who the prss ridiculed but we supported; we emplyed Wim Jansen who the press ridiculed but we supported; So come on when the press show their true cards about Gordon Strachan get behind him and the club THE GLASGOW CELTIC WAY!!

weeminger ,

He'll replace Skippy and play on the right of midfield allowing Naka a free role.

Maloney gives us options , plenty of them.

Quizzler,

Nice team. Unfortunately I know you realise that you'll be waiting a heck of a long time to see that back four in full flow.

This area of the team - and specific player - seem to be your bug bear, Paul. Its the old chestnut: Do you play your best players or your best team?

For what its worth, I think Brown is far more effective coming in off the right had side but only in a midfield three. 4-3-3 or 4-5-1 formation would suit Brown. In Europe we will probably deploy these tactics but Strachan will stick with the 4-4-2 domestically which presents the conundrum regarding Brown.

Hartley and Robson performed tremendously well in the central berths during the run-in showing toughness, discipline (tactical) and determenation. Exactly what was required to grind out the results.

But in a new season, we need flair to accompany those traits. Crosas may provide it. Maloney if re-signed may provide it. Nakamura normally provides it as does McGeady. Donati and Sno? No consistency.

Strachan is still searching for the right blend. He wants his team to play with more gusto. McGeady and Naka therefore become first picks with any two from Brown, Hartley, Robson and Crosas.

In my opinion, the problem is clear. Strachan doesn't yet know or doesn't yet have the personnel in to allow him to play his best team. So, in the interim, he will continue to play what he perceives to be his players in the hope it will keep things ticking over.

Robinbhoy-

Agree re- Wilson in the LB position. And Caddis for RB too I feel.

I am not raving by the probable return of Maloney either.

Ulster-Celt

What is crystal clear is the need for a deep holding midfielder, one who can fetch and carry, organise and give shape to the midfield. I remember Gordon Strachan saying it would be difficult to replace Neil Lennon. It is now nearly a year and a half. Hartley seemed to have been given that role tail end of last season with some success but it is not obvious to me that this is the case now.

It is time to replace Neil Lennon.

And for me at the moment, it's either Aiden or Naka. New signing, Robson, Brown and Aiden or Naka. Hartley can fill for all bar Aiden/Naka.

I thought the performance was pretty miserable against a reasonable DU. However the hysteria on here yesterday from some people was a disgrace.

Aye you're entitled to your opinion, but frankly anyone calling for sackings and suggesting that this past three years was in spite of the manager is simply on a different planet. quite bammy and whilst they might think they are Celtic supporters, they are deluded. I don't know what they are but in my opinion, they are not Celtic supporters.

C'mon The Hoops.

I have argue before that playing players on their unnatural position may allow that player to cut inside and therefore feel more inclined to have a shot but I like many others have mentioned on here before I cannot see the advantage in it. Mc Geady and Naka ´s shots on goal are few and far between. I think this formation also places far more burden on our full backs (the weakest part of our team). The emphasis is on them to hit the bye line (which they never do, willo excepted yesterday) and in a defending sense there is not much protection offered to them by Naka and Aiden. So the opportunities to bring the strike force into the game is limited

The lack of pace at the back also means that we are vulnerable to the ball over the top. Hence our CB´s propensity to defend deeply leaving the two guys in centre midfield with a very tall order especially if one is being deployed in a holding role.

It would seem that our modus of operandi (que chewin the fat wheeehhhs :-) is not to lose possession which is fine and dandy but not to the extent that the whole midfield is very reluctant to play a ball through. This I believe is due to a belief that JVOH and Skippy will easily surrender possession and so we try and "walk the ball into dangerous area always". The lack of pace up front also diminishes our ability to play a forward pass. Another over hit punt up that park for Skippy to chase is becoming the norm. There also seems to be a siege mentality within midfield about being disciplined about holding position. There seems to be no midfield players prepared to bust a gut and run ahead of the ball and there seems to be very little interchanging of positions as there is no need for it as the midfield is too static.

It is therefore very frustrating seeing many back passes and side passes when we all want to see the ball going forwards.

I find this is a very conservative way of playing. It´s what I a GOOD GERMAN would call continental football. I am of the belief that the players carry out WGS instructions almost to a tee and if you do try and play out with the system, his system you´ll end up without your appearance bonus eventually.

I reckon WGS has got us playing a system that we can take into Europe and not be caught out by better quality sides. It´s not a good idea if you genuinely want to advance and progress within Europe to play the SPL way and then when AC Milan come to town adopt to playing the continental way. We need to have that mindset ingrained into our players if we have any aspirations of going further in Europe. We dont earn any money domestically but winning the SPL is the key for CL and money making participation. It would naturally be easier if we had better quality players

I do believe that teams like Man U, Chelsea etc. can rely on individual brilliance within the CL to more than occasionally carry them over the winning line. Like we can do at SPL level, at CL level we have nothing like it. It is therefore necessary to be pragmatic and patient. If surrendering the SPL crown is the price to pay then it is plainly not worth it. If watching Celtic every week is like watching paint dry (I dont concur but it should be a lot better) then its not worth it.

If Graveson and Balde were off the wage bill I do believe that we would have possibly three more ready made players fitting into and improving the system. I would also hope that with more competent experienced individuals on the park that the ability to switch systems and the confidence to take a chance by moving out of position would improve. Only last week Gordon Strachan stated that the game was sucking the life out of him. So he´s not in denial. Why he doesn´t change it reminds me of MON´s singular stubbornness and loyalty to his generals. I think WGS reckons that he doesn´t have better on the bench or would have to change the system which sends out panic signals to the bhoys on the park.

There is no doubt about the fact that we need better quality on the park. I reckon that what WGS has brought to Celtic after Black Sunday considering our outlay has been nothing short of remarkable. The sound bites about WGS making players better cannot be denied. He has brought on Mc Geady, Skippy, Boruc, even Mc Manus and Caldwell and lets not forget Shaun Maloney.

The lack of entertainment needs to be addressed. Do we have the quality and potential in our present squad to make it work. I think that we lack genuine blistering pace at the back and the front and that needs addressing.

HAil Hail

Final line in the final para should read, '...his best players...'

I'm off to see Celts in Seville with Mrs LennyBhoy...a treat from her to me on my 46th birthday, cannot wait!

Hail Hail

weeminger on August 18, 2008 12:21 PM

I would happily accept Maloney back but the point you make is a good one and difficult to answer.

We know what we are getting with him (see big wavy's post at 12:23pm) and he would be back up and a medium term replacement for Naka.

Familiarity does breed contempt and so some fans would undoubtedly prefer us to sign someone else for that position.

He also left Celtic under a cloud. Thankfully the mistakes I made at his age were not in the full glare of the public eye. I'd forgive him.

Hail Hail

SwanseaBhoy

Lennondinho - classic! (and adopted)

Quizzler - nice team, welcome to the only clique that matters ;-)

Paul - want in?

'never mind his height cos Hinkel is sh*&e'

If Sno leaves the club it would be an incredible failure on the part of the coaching staff.The lad has all the ingredients to become a top player.All he needs is guidance and confidence.With his stature in the middle of the park he could be a huge asset,please don't let him slip through as I can see him be a big star in the future.

I think that buying wee Sean as a winger or central midfield player might just be another throw of the dice. He's a good enough player, but we have quite a lot of good enough players in these positions.

However, if he plays in the hole, i.e. replaces Skippy, alongside JVOH, then he might be a good buy. That might give the rest of the midfield a link with our strikers - when was the last time you saw the Celtic midfield passing to our strikers! Everything goes wide or is a punt from the back to JVOH. Our strikers don't seem to be connected to the rest of the forward players, but even if I'm not his biggest fan, wee Sean might just be able to provide the link. It doesn't matter if it's a stiker or midfielder who scores. But WGS would need to show a certain strength of character to play with one recognised striker - you're on a hiding to nothing if it fails.

Com on home wee Shaun - sufficiently contrite will put it all right....

Big_Liam

are you from Greencastle?

Ulster-Celt

Awe Naw, fair point/s. It is not often I find myself agreeing so much with what is being posted but today I cannot find anything to disagree on.

http://www.celticfc.net/news/stories/news_180808122309.aspx

gravesen away

ulster-celt

Awe_Naw,

Would I be right in saying that both Bobo and TG's contracts are up at the end of this season?

If thats the case then wouldn't it be wise to concentrate on the SPL for this season and let the chips fall where they may in a European context.

Then next season, with space free on the wages front, GS could improve the team with the three/four signings that he can't get at the minute. And then cultivate his team, a stronger team, to compete on both fronts.

bye bye tommy g

-----------------------Boruc---------------------------------------

Caddis----------Caldwell----------Loovens--------------------Wilson

-----------------Brown-------------Robson--------------------------

McGeady------------------Nakamura---------------------------Maloney

-----------------------------JVOH----------------------------------

Ulster Celt - not a minute too early, if we get rid of balde and riordan, we could more than likely afford to pay Kakas wages, LOL.

celtic part company with thomas gravesen

Newsroom Staff
CELTIC Football Club, Thomas Gravesen and Thomas's representatives have agreed that he will part company with the club.

Thomas wishes Celtic every success and, likewise, the club wishes Thomas all the very best for the future.

Short and sweet :)

Ulster-Celt,

Hallelujah !

Now , spend some of that money and get us a LB .

Hail Hail

Sannabhoy

Ulster-Celt,

Woah!

That bombshell came out of nowhere. Have we gone from making possibly two signings to three with this news?

Ulster-Celt ,

Nay , North Belfast , namely the 'Bone'. ;-)

Thankfully Gravesen has left the building.

Was up at Tannadice yesterday so not had the chance to fully disect the game via TV yet. I thought we played ok in patches yesterday but lacked a cutting edge. Ball retention at time s was good and felty Hartley and Brown both had decent games. They started off well but seemed to fade badly.

Bright spots on the day were Nakamura and Wilson. Naka was outstanding for an hour and even managed to injure the ref. I though Wilson had a cracking game at LB. If that's what he can do there then get a LB signed an move him over to the right. I've been willing to give Hinkel a chance but I'm slowly coming round to agreeing with my mate who says he's gash. He can certainly put in a good tackle and is comfortable on the ball, but his positional sense is appaling.

We need something a bit different to what we have up front I reckon. All 3 of our main strikers like to come deep and show for the ball, we don't have anyone either willing or able to make runs in behind defences at the moment. Skippy is not blessed with great pace anyway but he looks overweight to me and seems slower than usual as a result. I think he's lacking a bit in confidence aswell at the moment. An idea might be to stick him in the reserves (aswell as the 1st team) for a couple of weeks. Hopefully he'll redicover his scoring touch playing against weaker opposition and get a bit of a confidence boost.

I don't know if this has been mentioned either yesterday or today, but when MacDonald missed that sitter towards the end some @rsehole in the Celtic end chucked a lighter at him. I clearly saw it land at his feet, as did several other guys from our bus, and we were talking about it on the way home. To whomever did it: Don't come back!!

Although, what price the pay-off?

Jamesielegend ,

at the risk of getting a warning from Paulshun for swearing , that looks pretty bloomin' good .

Sannabhoy

jamesielegend - the problem I have with that line up is where the goals come from. You're basically expecting everyone of the front 4 to double their strike rate just to replace MacDonald's goals.

I'd imagine TG has left with a rather fat wallet.
There was supposedly a loyalty bonus of ~1m which I'm sure will have been paid just to get him off the books.
Let's hope the SSM has cut a good deal for us that frees up some finances for a couple of signings

DiscoStu : "If Sno leaves the club it would be an incredible failure on the part of the coaching staff.The lad has all the ingredients to become a top player.All he needs is guidance and confidence".

Disagree DiscoStu.

I honestly think we are buying into the perception that players get better the longer they are away from the team with Evander. I see a technically awkward player who can't head the ball, gets caught in possession, can't tackle, has no pace, no accurate shot and a poor goals ratio. Not great raw material.

If you are young enough then you are good enough. I fear that big Evander has the ability to drift into obscurity in years ahead.

Big Wavy

Good Luck Tommy

Disco Stu

I too think Sno will mature into a midfielder of real quality.

The problem at the moment is that if he played and was less than excellent he'd come in for serious criticism as would WGS for playing him.

We may not be able to keep him happy in the reserves/on the bench for much longer.

I for one hope he does stay and developes into the player I think he can be.

SwanseaBhoy

Kilbowie Kelt & likeminded others

I read a lot of posts, post match, and you yet again give the voice of reason with your realistic views about Celtic.

Realism is the key.

No team has a devine right to win or play well every week. Fact, Lisbon Lions included.

Man U(yesterday), Liverpool 18 yrs no league, Spurs(spent 40m) gubbed. ¿How bad can Milan be at times?, watched Real Madrid last nite(pedestrian). Even the best passing team in Europe/World Barcelona, get stick.

Before i get 'i'm not interested in others,its Celtic that worry me', these examples are used merely for a sense of perspective.

During the latter part of Tommy Burns's reign at CP i used to argue constantly with my numerous hun mates 'we play so much better football than you lot', aye 'but who is top of the league and current(pun intended) cham