State of the club report 2008
In the last eight years for which accounts are
available, seasons ending 2000 - 2007 (since the current regime took over from
Fergus McCann), Celtic's total income was £462.2m.
During this period, they spent £258.4m on wages and £160.8m on other operating expenses (which includes everything from police to rates, electricity, catering, telephones and a million other minor items, but not player transfers). They also spent £15.5m on servicing debt, including interest payments and non-equity dividends.
Ignoring amortisation for a moment, which changes how transfers affect the accounts by apportioning costs over the contract period, and concentrating on cash transactions, Celtic generated £19.5m cash from player sales and spent £74.3m cash during the period for players coming into the club.
Total cash spent in the period was £501.3m, total cash generated was £475.2m, leaving an overspend of £26.1m. The shortfall was bridged by the 2001 and 2005 share issues, and an increase in net bank debt from £2.169m to £9.16m.
Accounts to be released later this month should see year-end bank debt approach the position it was in when Fergus McCann left the club. As the bulk of season ticket money arrives shortly before the year-end reporting date, the club's peak debt position will be significantly higher, but one day soon Celtic might find itself with money in the bank for the first time since Fergus said, "Let's build that new stadium we've been talking about".
Debt has been a crucial tool in building the team, not just the stadium, but just as football dominance and business tends to be cyclical, so do threats.
Money is the bank is the most effective resource to combat all kinds of threats. When TV deals crash, when commercial partners don't renew contracts, when ticket or merchandising sales slump, when European income blips, or when the club face a resurgent domestic opponent, cash will be needed if Celtic are to respond quickly and effectively.
Each new day brings fresh evidence of how clubs crippled by debt can be made impotent by the vagaries of a bad result which can impact multiple income streams.
As well as planning how to improve Celtic's domination of Scottish football, it is tempting to speculate on how to make it durable; all empires fail eventually, but some last a very long time. Other cities provide examples of where a once dominant club can be subjugated for decades, a fact last night's guests from Manchester know only too well.
Sir David Murray will eventually sell his problem project and it could end up in the hands of committed and talented owners. When prospective buyers consider purchasing the Ibrox club, their due diligence must tell them that to engage in a football arms-race with Celtic will take enormous resources.
Money in the bank is the most effective way of doing this. When Celtic eventually face new owners, they must have whatever money it takes, £20m or even £30m available, to extinguish the challenge before it claims the upper hand, if not discourage the investment in the first place.
In the 1990s Rangers enjoyed what appeared to be an even more dominant position in the Scottish game. At times their turnover was 60% more than any other club in Scotland and they were the only team avoiding an annual embarrassment in Europe.
But their dominant period ended when two circumstances occurred: Celtic recruited a talented manager, and Rangers caught a draught, as transfer values fell, leaving them with negative equity in their playing pool, and they had no money to fund a fight-back.
We must never surrender our period of domination so easily; contingency resources must be accumulated when the opportunity exists.
Our club endured three years of schism following one bad night in Europe, but becoming three-in-a-row champions, the first time this has been achieved in 40 years and only the third time in Celtic's 120 year history, has finally restored equilibrium. I hope.
The record now reads 'six out of eight'; only two other periods in the club's history can compare.
This month will provide a test for Celtic's ambition to employ a world-class scouting system. Buying quality football players has become increasingly expensive, so delivering the players required within budget will present a challenge which must be met.
The importance of season ticket sales to Celtic cannot be overestimated. This season has seen the return of the waiting list in earnest, perhaps as a result of the dramatic finale to last season, while clubs throughout Europe have seen sales fall. Celtic cannot take high sales levels for granted.
It remains a frustration that the club have failed to deliver a plan to escape from the limitations of the Scottish Premier League; hope of moving to a new environment appears to have disappeared over the horizon. This fact alone will inhibit European ambition, not to mention earnings, more than any other factor.
It is necessary for our board to build relationships with big clubs in other small European countries who face the same challenges, and to agitate for change.
New qualification rules for the Champions League will ensure that the SPL champions gain automatic qualification to the group stage from next year, but will also make it much more difficult for the SPLs second place team to negotiate the qualifying rounds.
This presents a virtuous circle opportunity to the SPL champions and a vicious circle to the runners up; we are likely to see the opportunity for discretionary expenditure between for the top two clubs in the league vary enormously.
As a result, Celtic are in a great position to consolidate their place at the top of Scottish football and with wise leadership, make this position durable.
During this period, they spent £258.4m on wages and £160.8m on other operating expenses (which includes everything from police to rates, electricity, catering, telephones and a million other minor items, but not player transfers). They also spent £15.5m on servicing debt, including interest payments and non-equity dividends.
Ignoring amortisation for a moment, which changes how transfers affect the accounts by apportioning costs over the contract period, and concentrating on cash transactions, Celtic generated £19.5m cash from player sales and spent £74.3m cash during the period for players coming into the club.
Total cash spent in the period was £501.3m, total cash generated was £475.2m, leaving an overspend of £26.1m. The shortfall was bridged by the 2001 and 2005 share issues, and an increase in net bank debt from £2.169m to £9.16m.
Accounts to be released later this month should see year-end bank debt approach the position it was in when Fergus McCann left the club. As the bulk of season ticket money arrives shortly before the year-end reporting date, the club's peak debt position will be significantly higher, but one day soon Celtic might find itself with money in the bank for the first time since Fergus said, "Let's build that new stadium we've been talking about".
Debt has been a crucial tool in building the team, not just the stadium, but just as football dominance and business tends to be cyclical, so do threats.
Money is the bank is the most effective resource to combat all kinds of threats. When TV deals crash, when commercial partners don't renew contracts, when ticket or merchandising sales slump, when European income blips, or when the club face a resurgent domestic opponent, cash will be needed if Celtic are to respond quickly and effectively.
Each new day brings fresh evidence of how clubs crippled by debt can be made impotent by the vagaries of a bad result which can impact multiple income streams.
As well as planning how to improve Celtic's domination of Scottish football, it is tempting to speculate on how to make it durable; all empires fail eventually, but some last a very long time. Other cities provide examples of where a once dominant club can be subjugated for decades, a fact last night's guests from Manchester know only too well.
Sir David Murray will eventually sell his problem project and it could end up in the hands of committed and talented owners. When prospective buyers consider purchasing the Ibrox club, their due diligence must tell them that to engage in a football arms-race with Celtic will take enormous resources.
Money in the bank is the most effective way of doing this. When Celtic eventually face new owners, they must have whatever money it takes, £20m or even £30m available, to extinguish the challenge before it claims the upper hand, if not discourage the investment in the first place.
In the 1990s Rangers enjoyed what appeared to be an even more dominant position in the Scottish game. At times their turnover was 60% more than any other club in Scotland and they were the only team avoiding an annual embarrassment in Europe.
But their dominant period ended when two circumstances occurred: Celtic recruited a talented manager, and Rangers caught a draught, as transfer values fell, leaving them with negative equity in their playing pool, and they had no money to fund a fight-back.
We must never surrender our period of domination so easily; contingency resources must be accumulated when the opportunity exists.
Our club endured three years of schism following one bad night in Europe, but becoming three-in-a-row champions, the first time this has been achieved in 40 years and only the third time in Celtic's 120 year history, has finally restored equilibrium. I hope.
The record now reads 'six out of eight'; only two other periods in the club's history can compare.
This month will provide a test for Celtic's ambition to employ a world-class scouting system. Buying quality football players has become increasingly expensive, so delivering the players required within budget will present a challenge which must be met.
The importance of season ticket sales to Celtic cannot be overestimated. This season has seen the return of the waiting list in earnest, perhaps as a result of the dramatic finale to last season, while clubs throughout Europe have seen sales fall. Celtic cannot take high sales levels for granted.
It remains a frustration that the club have failed to deliver a plan to escape from the limitations of the Scottish Premier League; hope of moving to a new environment appears to have disappeared over the horizon. This fact alone will inhibit European ambition, not to mention earnings, more than any other factor.
It is necessary for our board to build relationships with big clubs in other small European countries who face the same challenges, and to agitate for change.
New qualification rules for the Champions League will ensure that the SPL champions gain automatic qualification to the group stage from next year, but will also make it much more difficult for the SPLs second place team to negotiate the qualifying rounds.
This presents a virtuous circle opportunity to the SPL champions and a vicious circle to the runners up; we are likely to see the opportunity for discretionary expenditure between for the top two clubs in the league vary enormously.
As a result, Celtic are in a great position to consolidate their place at the top of Scottish football and with wise leadership, make this position durable.
god bless the Celtic
5th 1st
get in
here we go, 6 in a row
Please post my Gold medal Paul to the usual address
Are the Tanks lined up outside the Marble Staircase at Ibrox ready to Fire yet Paul?
Do the authorisation codes lie with Mr Lawell?
Lets hope the Fire at will order is instructed over the next few weeks
Paul67 :- I hoe you don't mind me reposting this, I know from previous posts that some members of the site are involved in anti-rascism activities and they may find the last paragraph helpful.
FARE Action Week against Racism and Discrimination in European Football takes place from 16th to 28th October 2008
Ignoring racism, is accepting racism – take your stand and join the FARE Action Week!
Discrimination and racism is sadly a regular occurrence in European football and is all too often swept under the carpet. Therefore, for the 9th successive season the Football Against Racism in Europe (FARE) network is coordinating action in and around football stadiums across Europe. Between 16th and 28th October 2008 large sections of the European football family in more than 35 countries will stand united against racism and discrimination.
The idea behind the FARE Action Week is that a wide range of initiatives and activities address local problems within their club or community, while also joining groups across the continent to present a unified stand against racism in the game.
Besides activities by professional clubs, national associations, leagues such as the UEFA Champions League, the FARE Action Week will give fans, minority groups and grass-root football teams across the continent the opportunity to come together to celebrate the integrative power of the game.
This season FARE network aims to encourage more groups in southern Europe to participate in the FARE Action Week. Moreover, in the course of the forthcoming Action Week FARE will support initiatives targeting homophobia and tackling sexism.
Small Grants grass-root groups
FARE offers financial assistance for local activities during the week of action, such as the production of campaigning materials and the organisation of anti-racism matches or special fan choreographies. Groups can apply on www.farenet.org for financial assistance. The maximum grant to apply for is 400 €. The deadline to fill the application form will be 8 September 2008.
We look forward to learning about your ideas, initiatives and activities!
Guidelines and Application
Guidelines, application form and contact details (pdf):
Guidelines and Application
Richtlinien und Anmeldung
Directives et candidatures
Linee Guida e Registrazione
Directivas y convocatoria (coming soon!)
or visit www.farenet.org
--
Mag. Bettina Surtmann
Presse- und Öffentlichkeitsarbeit
FairPlay. Viele Farben. Ein Spiel.
c/o VIDC - Vienna Institute for International Dialogue and Cooperation
Möllwaldplatz 5/3. Stock
A-1040 Wien
surtmann@vidc.org
Tel.: +43/1/713 35 94-86
Fax: +43/1/713 35 94-73
www.fairplay.or.at
www.farenet.org
A fine job your doing here Paul67.
Just want to say thanks. You know I´m sleeping with a smile on my face these days and its still there when I wake up in the morning. Girlfreind loves it ....
everybodysawinnerCSC
everybody still laughing too hard to press the keyboard . Lennondinho a truly Olympian podium
Mark Clattenburg has been suspended from refereeing duties pending enquiries into reports of the official's alleged debts.
Clattenburg is alleged to have run up debts relating to companies connected to him, forcing the Football Association and the referees body Professional Game Match Officials Ltd to act.
Clattenburg was due to take charge of Sunday's FA Community Shield clash between Manchester United and Portsmouth, but has now been replaced by Peter Walton.
Not many people have mentioned the penalty that was not given last night. Does this not just prove that these guys are just very poor at what they do. The penalty was a stonewaller and the decision can only be descibed as shocking. I realise it was a friendly and doesn't mean anything but surely this guy would want to get these decisions correct even in a friendly.
Hail, hail
Celtic's current financial position is all the more important at the moment given the global financial 'crisis'. If anybody's interested, have a hunt for information on the Glazers and Man Utd particularly the way the family financed their deal with Payments in Kind (PIK). Big clubs with big debts are going to have a tough couple of seasons, if the indications from the Bank of England on interest rates are anything to go by.
Anyway, on to cracked crests in the Daily Record.
A couple of years ago, some pre-season defeats for the Celts resulted in cracked crests being printed.
A number of staff make very vocal representations over this, and it was agreed that they would not appear again.
Unfortunately the rule is being applied across the board.
Shame really.
Still the word 'crisis' is being used for Rearrangers and even Jim Traynor is talking about Celtic 'dominating for years to come'.
STANDING UP.....
failing to qualify for the champions league should not happen again. the consequences are too great.
therefore we must continue to win the league,and we must strenghthen appropriately to ensure this.
here's to 10 plus in a row
ulster-celt
EdwardUrsus son,
Well done buddy ... keeping yer Dad´s profile high in a national state of emergency :-).... come away from the dark young man and enter the kingdom of light .. let the rays of sunshine , blue sies and fresh air .. permeate your hooped being
... it can be done
http://www.flickr.com/photos/26022506@N08/sets/72157606448215040/
Hail HAil
Paul
The vision Fegus McCann had for our club happened 100%
but he also laid the foundations for the recovery of Celtic
how people could ever boo him as the league flag was raised is beyond me, particularly with Jock Stein's wife present also.
I have stated this before but PLEASE, everyone make sunday a day to celebrate raising the league flag, 3 in a row, and a celebration of Tommy Burns's life. Anything less would be an insult to his memory and to the players who fought for 3 in a row.
Once again, if anyone has issues with John Reid, please leave these aside as we raise the league flag. John Reid will no doubt make a speech before the flag is raised. Lets make it a Celtic Party day, not a day that leaves a sour taste in the mouth just as that day when Fergus was booed.
GOD BLESS WEE FERGUS
GOD BLESS TOMMY BURNS
DO DO DO DO, BARRY ROBSON
Excellent summation Paul. We really are teetering on the brink of the guts of your GOD, with their calamity on Tues helping big style. I know not alot here will agree but with Dr Reid, Lawell and Strachan I really think we have a trinity there who will steer us wisely. I know Reid, for all he is maligned, is a fan just like the rest of us which has caused a big shift in power at CP from the money men (when Quinn was in charge)to a more profligate era. I just hope Reid's fan based ardour is tempered by men in the know to keep our finances in the healthy position they are. I know I would struggle to control my ardour in his position as my previous posts have shown.
Here is to 2008/09 and hopefully 4 in a row! Did you all know that every team who have done 3 in a row have went on to 9?
speaking of referees for friendlies. With all the talk this week about them striking, does anyone know who pays them for a friendly match. Is it the club? and if so how much would they receive?
.
"It Was The Man Wae The Bunnet That Dunnit...."
o1bhoy
Firstly wanted to say Thanks again to Paul for a fantastic site which does exactly what it says on the headline - "Celtic News - Not lazy journalism"
Sorry to go off the point a bit here but I am getting very tired of the whole "OLD FIRM" tie-in with another club who we should be disassociating ourself with in every way!!
Looking at this link from the Glasgow Evening times I am staggered by the headline and content. Please let me know if you feel the same as I do on this -
http://www.newsnow.co.uk/h/Sport/Football/Scottish+Premiership/Celtic
The article quotes Tamas' agent as saying Celtic could not agree terms with Auxerre. It then says Shittu was promised £20k a week and was then offered £13K a week and was annoyed at this duplicity!!
Is it just me or is this pathetic spinning? If this was Celtic I am sure the Headline would be "Celtic go back on word to Shittu and try and get him cheaper than was agreed" Biscuit tin is alive and well!!"
Ok rant over, thanks for being there. Yes I am off to calm down and re-assess my life.......
Taurangabhoy
It was indeed shun
after McGowan was not awarded that spot kick, how about this for a belter of a song that i heard last night:
"you can shove yer f***** payrise up your a***"
classic
gordon strachan suggests that paul caddis being a right winger is the position that will give him more first team oppurtunities
from ET
When asked if he was doubly impressed by Caddis because he was not playing out of position, Strachan challenged by replying: "Who is to say that is not his natural position?
"I know what you mean. We're used to seeing him at full-back in the reserve side.But what we have done when we've had time to work with him is show him what he needs to do to be part of this team.
"He takes in information and feels comfortable in that position now because he has a lot of assets that can definitely help us."
Caddis certainly offers a different option to the man who normally holds down the right midfield position, Shunsuke Nakamura, who is back in training after his hernia op.
As Strachan points out, though: "There is no one like Naka in Scottish football, let alone at our club. But Caddis was very effective. He got in a lot of crosses, and most of our chances came from him.
"He was driving forward with the ball, taking us up the pitch 40 yards when running with it, which is very useful.
"He also has a good turn of pace which can make him even more of a threat."
ulster-celt
ANNAOAN :- I think the phrase you sed, state of emergency, sums it up. However after a very inebriated Tues night and a very hung over and miserable yesterday I'm sure that some time next century (either that or when we get a change at the top) my optimism will kick in again :-)
Don't you get annoyed when English people criticise the SPL for being only a two team league. This is complete and utter garbage, everyone knows it's a one team league ;-)
It definitely all seems good just now, as long as we chart a stedy course we should remain on top for a long while yet.
On last night, I see that already the Club have banned a number of adult fans for using a concession ticket. Looks like my days of squeezing in the two bhoys at the one time are over!
On another subject, sad news I see on Booby Robson today that he is losing his battle with lung cancer. Seems like a true gent and someone I would have liked to have seen as manager of Celtic at one time.
.
Paul67....Auld Hauns....Stat Men....
I Have Wanted to ask this Question Since Last season....The Young Guns Last night made me Wonder Again....
Q. How Young is This Team say Compared too The Lions of 67' and the Centenary Team of 88'....Say First 11 and first Two Subs if Allowed....
o1bhoy
Extraordinary article in the herald by Hugh Mc Donald
A commentary is what we,reasonable people, would expect.
What is demonstrated is a plethora of words and sentences and paragraphs....ad nauseam....of ADVICE to his friends in Copeland Rd.
Proof positive that the author is just another hurting hun.
GLORIO...GLORIO.
Great summary of the position, Paul.
I have a feeling that Europe will be our eventual escape from the SPL rather than England. But until things move on we have to ensure that we press home our advantage domestically.
There is a clear blancing act to be had between spending too little and therefore not performing on the pitch, and spending too much to the detriment of the balance sheet. We need to get this right. And I thik we will see more squad rotation over the next few months.
Murray's past shenanigans with the re-valuation of Ibrox is now coming back to haunt him. He simply cannot afford to sell as he would lose a massive asset from his balance sheet. What would HBoS think of that? Unless he can find someone to pay several times the real value of the club, he is snookered. Several years of having to make a profit on transfers to stand still is the outcome.
Last year it was Hutton. This year Boyd, Cousin or possibly Cuellar. They are a selling club. And one rooting in the bargain basement for players: an extra £1M or less would have secured Davis. Would he have made a difference on Tuesday?
Good article, Paul, and exciting times indeed.
What about DD?
Fergus biggest achievement was not building the biggest football stadium in Britain (at the time) but filling it every week!
With a bit of help from box office Henrik.
However if Fergus was still running the club I'm not convinced we would be were we are today as he was a business man first and foremost.
The guy that should take a major slice of the credit for propelling Celtic to being the one superpower in Scottish Football is Dermot Desmond.
Fergus certainly laid the foundations. Ensuring the club had an annual income of £20M every season before a ball was kick through season tickets. Although I firmly believe DD took us to the next level by persuading MON to give up his first love - English football and bankrolling him after the disaster of the Alan McDonald period.
Dermot Desmond also overseen the appointment of Gordon Strachan.
Thanks to the financial backing and leadership of this Irishman we are enjoying one of the best periods in our history.
Long may it continue.
Therefore when handing out plaudits always remember Dermot.
Macjay
Quite the opposite, Hugh McDonald is a gloating Tim!
I thought most of the article was a tongue in cheek 'struthification' take on events.
o1 bhoy 11.21
...with a little(lot) of help from his friends...
Didn't see the game last night but sounds like some of our rising stars were given a good run out. Caddis took his chances last season and it would be fair tom say most of us are excited about how he could pan out. And there is still Koki , Hutcheson and now Crosas who starred against Dundee U and Hibs , our biggest challengers this year. I don't ever underestimate the Rearangers but points gained away at Tannadice and Easter Road are as valuable as those at Mordor. Crosas can play away from home , in Scotland. Sammie raring to go , Skippy well rested , JVOH some say coming up to his best season . The team that won the last 7 played like true champions , don't take that away from them because of the dip in December. I wouldn't mind seeing a new face but only if they really want to be with us and they are better than what we already have. I would be just as excited to see Caddis become the new Aiden , and the other young bhoys who can only reach the first team by having that chance. Paul your article won't be a reality that all fans want to hear but it is spot on. Spending now , on players like Graveson and Jarosik , won't mean that we don't end up using the players we have now through most of the season. If we don't bring in any new faces I am still excited about what can come out of Celtic park this year , competition is already red hot. Just read the E-Tims article , great until it starts to bad mouth our three in a row hero's . No credit given. If they think this is boring then the writer must be either young or have a very selective memory about the last decade. We are at the top table bhoys and ghirls , enjoy it. Fourinarowherewego. Sing for Gordon Strachan bhoys and ghirls. He is the one signing / extension we really must make this year.
With regard to the Champions League 'new rules' is the SPL winners place quite safe ? Are there countries threatening to overtake us ? I presume the co-efficient will take a dive this season no matter how well we do.
The Hugh McDonald article has made me ask one question.
Where is Darryl Broadfoot when all of this is going on. I want to read his self indlgent tripe.
Purely for gloating reasons of course.
Still it would appear Dean Furman and John Fleck are about to heralded by the support and media as the knights in shining armour ready to ride to Rangers aid.
Macjay - I agree! Nowhere else would you see such poor, one-sided apologists who have lapped up and printed everything they are tolf by the Minty Moonbeams PR machine which, for some considerable time has been the sole information trail for the laptop loyal. Hugh mcDonald actually mentions "Walters support" from the Press
Speaking of which, which titles would you say comprise the Laptop Loyal? The Herald, The Evening Times, The Daily R*****, The Scotsman, the Sun, All of which are very blatant in their pro the dark side leanings.
Surely there must be some newspaper who is interested in our demographic? Can anyone advise me on what Scottish newspaper is even balanced in its Football coverage?
Edaward Ursus
You prove, that on the other side are supporters who are welcome by any other club. My respect Blue(s) Buddy Guy. I know you don't change your mind. The only other club you can support in the other part of your heart is Legia Warsaw :)
To be honest with you, my first thought after Tuesday was, you - Edward did not deserve that.
Dreams and songs to sing.
The Scottish edition of the Times ...but then your lining Rupert Murdoch´s pockets... my advice is to stick to CQN
Paul another great article allowing us to sit back and take in where we have come from, what we have attained and what prize is out there for us if we play our cards right.
As I stated in a post yesterday our priority this season should be made clear:it is the league championship and Europe should be seen as not too important especially the fight to qualify for the last 16 - let's not worry about it too much this season, just enjoy the money lol.
It is our chance to get those tanks up that marble staircase and parade our domestic superiority to anyone who hasn't yet cowered away and hidden in the bomb-proof Bunker with their laptop loyal friends.
Hail Hail
thismancraig CAIRNEY by any other name:
"Struth " a great Aussie expletive.
Find it hard to believe,but I`ll bow to your inside info.
Here`s tae us1
Zbyszek :- Thanks for your kind words. Strangely enough since you started posting on here I now make a point of looking for the Legia result when looking through European results.
All the best
E.U
Tee Hee !
Dave 'n Walt
pablophanque
Kevtik,
Well said. It appears that an Irishman is very acceptable at Celtic Park as long as he is not too rich and holds opinions that don't sit well with the "fans".
Long may he hold the purse.
Still-angry Danny Shittu is continuing to seethe that Walter Smith did not return his phone calls after his moans regarding a £13,000-a-week deal being seven grand down on his initial offer turned Gers interest cold.
And a source close to the Nigerian said: "Danny left messages with Walter himself to explain there must have been a misunderstanding when he went up to Rangers. But Smith didn't call him back at all and Danny was unhappy and very disappointed about that.
"It was upsetting for him as he wanted to put the record straight. The package they put on the table was considerably less than the one discussed."
... its the final meltdown do do do dooo
Sorry about misspelled name, Kevtic.
RANGERS will earn just £80,000 from European earnings after their disaster in Lithuania.
Uefa today confirmed that is the figure paid to clubs who are knocked out in the second round of Champions League qualification.
They also said Celtic will get the entire TV money allocated to Scotland for the grpup stages - around the £5million mark.
advertisement
That means Gordon Strachan's side are guaranteed to bank a whopping £12.5m from Europe's premier club competition when gate receipts from three home matches at Parkhead are eventually taken into account.
Like the vast majority of clubs we're constantly walking a financial tightrope but we seem lucky enough to have a solid team who can navigate it safely. Long may that continue. It's a far cry from the early 1990s, thank God.
Porridge&Bananas: I don't know if you spied my post in the earlier thread but we are training at the Battery next Tuesday night from 6.45. Feel free to join us.
Excellent article Paul. We've come a long way since The Wayne Biggins Memorial Stand. Long may it continue. The sooner we lose the OF tag and look to Europe in our own right the better imho. A European league structure is bound to come someday and I hope we are all geared up for it when it does.
On another subject - can anybody give me a contact number or an email address for the ticket office? I can't get into the official site from work and need to speak to someone on a season ticket matter.
Thanks
Will everyone please note that in the last few days any article that is openly asking for answers from Ibrox has no journalists name attributed to it. The Scotsman has not allowed any threads for readers contributions to be opened on any Rangers article at all. The usual Ibrox foot soldiers, King, Broadfoot, Jingle are all noticeable by their abscence .... must be on sick leave .... brown tongue me thinks
The problem with parking the tanks at the foot of the marble staircase, is that the stairway has already been sold to a firm of monumental sculptors.
A Monumental Folly.
Macjay
He's been pretty open about it in the past and the Struth refers to their great and dignified hero Bill, some of the references to him on Follow Follow have to be seen to be believed!
Not quite as good as 'Espanyolification' but close!
Hail Hail to 4 in a row!
Apologies for pedantry, rogue leader, but Celtic did 6 in a row early last century.
After having a season ticket since they introduced them to the terracing, cant remember when, I gave my ticket up last year, I am now on the waiting list (trying to get one of the new fangled parent and child tickets, there may be some more become available, see the official web site!!), so can confirm it does actually exist.
The reasons for giving it up were wide and varied reasons and why, along with blogger, I became lurker.
Anyway, is the £20 or £30m up our sleeve a sign that we will be keeping our powder dry in the transfer market until the credit crunch eases its grip? I'm just curious, good arguments can be made for or against this direction.
o1bhoy @ 11.28 re ave ages
I just did a quick calculation and the ave age of the Lisbon Lions was 26.18. Don't have the time to check the centenary team at the minute.
For the current team I have taken 14 players I would consider would be first teamers and 3 subs if all fit.
Artur Boruc (28)
Andreas Hinkel (26)
Lee Naylor (28)
Stephen McManus (25)
Gary Caldwell (26)
Paul Hartley (31)
Scott Brown (23)
Aiden McGeady (22)
Shunsuke Nakamura (30)
Scott McDonald (24)
Jan Vennegoor of Hesselink (29)
Georgios Samaras (23)
Massimo Donati (27)
Barry Robson (29)
This would give an average age of 26.5 but would be further reduced if Wilson, Caddis, Crosas, Sno or McCourt were to play.
Hope this helps somewhat.
Mort
Never understood the wailing regards 'not being able to compete with the English teams for the best players'
Have we ever been in a position to compete for the best players? Maybe in the 1890s but not in living memory
Rankers were for a period of maybe 4 yrs but never us.
In the 70s teams like Man City, Wolves and Nottingham Forest were spending 10 times (TEN times!) what we could afford on one player.
In the 80s we were telling the manager to buy players with his own money.
In the 90s teams of the status of Sheffield Wednesday were taking our star players and we couldnt compete with English 2nd division players.
In the 00s we are probably in a more likely position to sign star players than in any other time in our history.
we dont need world-beaters, We need a team & system that will make us harder to beat away from home in Europe. Achieve that and we can gloat at others misfortune.
I for one am happy with where we are ..........
ONWARDS TO 4 IN A ROW AND THE CHAMPIONS LEAGUE QUARTERS :-)
The only thing I've noticed is how lightly rangers have got off for their debacle in europe from the scottish excuse for press.
Still the more they cover it up , the worse it gets when the already glaring cracks widen even further.
Anyway , Being a transfer window veteran like myself ;-) , plainly I should know better but I can't help wondering if we're dragging our heels this window. Surely we planned our targets in advance so why no movement already? Last year we were guilty of failure to add to the squad at the right time when it was needed and ended up running half a campaign with players out of position and when injuries happened we nearly ended up loosing the league. If we lost the league it would have partly down to failure to properly supply the manager with a proper squad.
So in my opinion we should learn from last years mistakes , as the chance for us to deprive rangers of two consecutive CL entries would cripple their finances even further. Nobodies advocating a bank bursting spend but shoring up the weak areas of the squad and adding 2-3 quality players shouldn't be beyond us. Playing this transfer window game may prove value for money but what happens as like last year we fail?
Dreams and songs
Honestly wouldn`t have a clue.
Get most of what I need on here.
Instinctively prefer non-Scottish newspapers.
When I lived in Jockland ,I liked the herald with Ian Archer.
Great journalist,with none of the Scottish baggage to colour his opinions.
My oldies used to tell me about Cyril Horne,probably a bit before everybody`s time,but a fearless teller of the truth.
My type of journalist.
Cheers!
Edward, go for it.
Lennondinho18, I reckon the white flags will be raised without a shot fired.
Awe_Naw, thank you for your kind words.
RogueLeader, 11:19, good point. It is too easy to let the heart rule the head.
Dreams and Songs to Sing, thank you for your support.
O1bhoy, good question. I’ll leave it to an aulder haun to answer.
Gordon J, thanks. Received your post today, thanks for that also.
Fighting the Fuzz, Y, very exciting times.
Kevtic, Dermot has been absolutely instrumental in what has been achieved.
Taurangabhoy, I still expect new faces.
SouthLondonTim, Scottish clubs have a comfortable gap on any chasing pack.
Faithfulthru&thru, agree.
Butebhoy, we sure have.
Leabrannagh, 12:01, no, my thoughts above are not a sign of how I believe the club will progress on this matter, but how I think they should.
Paul67,
fantastic article. As it says we are get stronger, and it is very important not to get complacent. Things can change in the blinking of an eye. It could only take a sugar daddy or a MON ie "a good manager" to turn them around and once a wave of optimism starts it can be hard to stop.
"Money is the bank is the most effective resource to combat all kinds of threats"
Paul - Money in the bank can be a threat itself. Whilst it will undoubtedly raise the share price, it can,
show a lack of direction/leadership
make you vunerable to takeover
make the shareholders want it returned
inflate transfer prices
Lets welcome the challenges, invest the profits, for the people who earned them in players and facilities.
Also Paul which year is it we start paying back for the stadium, at £250k a quarter if memory serves me, I'm sure its in the accounts.
Thanks again
playfusbal4dguilders
Murray, we love you so
we want you to know
that we´re going to miss your love
the minute you walk out that door
so please don't go
don't go, don't go away
please don't go
don't go, we´re begging you to stay
Walter, we love you so
we want you to know
that we´re going to miss your love
the minute you walk out that door
so please don't go
don't go, don't go away
please don't go
don't go, we´re begging you to stay
KCCSC
why was Arthur wearing a grey top and black shorts? did we learn nothing from the European Championships remember the goalies in luminous colours it made them look so much bigger. I'm not advocating going luminous that would be wee cheats in in Alex Ferguson/Souness proportions. but bring back the yellow strip!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: Ibrox, its revaluation and its place on the MIM balance sheet as an asset.
Murray can have it revalued any way he likes and technically this saved Rangers from being insolvent but, practically speaking, he can't do much with Ibrox as it's a listed building. He can't realise any cash by selling to developers.
All he could realistically do is sell Ibrox to a leasing company and then sign a long term lease, but this is just the JJB shirt deal on a bigger scale. Short term cash injection in return for long term loss. Also, if he took that step, it makes Rangers an even less appealling purchase to potential buyers.
Good to see Fergus taking the plaudits. IMHO he ranks as one of the key people in Celtic's history but has yet to gain the praise he deserves. I'd name the stadium after him given the chance.
I remember well when the press and teh disgruntled board members kept saying it couldn't be done Fergus coming out with the phrase that sums up his time with us.
He came out with an Arabic saying "The dogs can bark but the caravan moves on"
Sad to say the dogs were still barking as flag was raised in our new debt free full stadium but the cretins that did this know no better.
Hail hail
Great article Paul67; a clear concise picture of our situation.
But what of Rangers? Are they still in hock big style to HBOS? Figures? And is there any suggestion that the pressure HBOS is feeling might force a change in its attitude to its dealings with Rangers?
Beyond gloating, I'm wallowing in their misfortune. Wallowing, yes, that's me.
Tommy can you hear me?
Can you feel me near you?
Did you see your bhoys play?
Thank you for your legacy?
Oh Tommy .. Tommy ... Tommy
Thomthetim surely monumental masons :)
Thomthethim even
Hate to ask but if anyone comed accoss a pair of tickets for Sunday then please let me know.
Will be much appreciated.
.
Mort on August 7, 2008 12:02 PM ....
Thank you Mort....I would Have Bet the Earth this Team Was Younger....!!!!
We Do Seem to Have a few Young Guns Coming through....Plus Maybe l am Getting Older....????
Cheers Again....
o1bhoy
Paul, great article as usual. It's good to see exactly where we are at and what may lie ahead. Do you see Murray leaving any tie soon. I know Rangers supporters I know always assume Tom Hunter will one day step in and take over, is this a likely scenario?
On the player front, is it likely that we will see any new faces being signed before the St Mirren match? A couple of big signings announced on Friday night would go down a treat, adding to the already immense pressure they are under going to Falkirk.
bigtrainpete, I should be OK to make training at that time. Just need to get a babysitter sorted and I'll be there. I'll let you know over the weekend mate, thanks!
Macjay
Iain Archer was a great journalist, but even his colleague from that time Archie McPherson has realised that Rangers are a throwback club. Archie now prefers to go to Easter Road.
STANDING UP
Butebhoy
0871 226 1888 (uk)
or +44 870 161 1888 (overseas)
Paul,
Back to your previous post regarding a further 2 new signings this week. WGS (the real one) has stated in a press conferance that there will be no more before the St Mirren game. Is he at it or have you been given bum info.
Hail hail.
Haven't posted since that lot got knocked out on Tuesday.
I didn't watch the game, only turned over 3 times during the whole game
1st time: Kaunas 0 Rangers 1 (Damn, they are through)
2nd time: Kaunas 1 Rangers 1 (A wee bit of hope, still can't see them losing)
3rd time: Absolute perfect timing, I turned over literally as the ball bounced off Christian Dailly's chest for the throw in, corner Kaunas (thought to myself, please score, knock these Marko Basa's out). Bang goal, I yelled so loudly I woke up my 18 month old girl, she forgave me though ; - )
To sum up, I take the credit for the goal, I f i hadn't turned over at that point Rangers would've got through ; - )
gallagher,
Yes, of course.
Cyril Horne was the doyen of sports reporters and used to write the occasional piece in the Celtic View.
Ian Archer was born in a nursing home In Wilton St., Maryhill.
Neither was a "Celtic man", just competent, honest journalists.
When will we see their likes again? Old school contemporary, Glenn Gibbons excepted.
porridgeandbananas - It's been suggested that after the infamous Murray's Blueprint article by Ken Gallacher in the Herald, Mr Hunter had totally washed his hands of it and wouldn't invest at any stage. He was apparently disturbed by David Murray's revelation that he was set to become a major investor before any agreement had been reached.
Kevtic @ 11:41,
I think DD will certainly get a lot of credit in the years to come. We're currently living through his era. In a decade we'll be able to stand back and see all that he achieved-- making us *the* superpower of Scottish Football and hopefully a bona fide European threat-- and he will be rightly lauded.
Fergus was at first heralded as the bunneted messiah, but the fans' adoration turned lukewarm pretty quickly and there were times (the sacking of TB, the fall out with Wim) when he was hated during his tenure. It's only now that we can see what he did.
But, yeah, Dermot Desmond has taken us to the next level and beyond. In '98 we were punching above our weight against a tired, old Rangers team, and before McCann left we were a joke in Europe. I dont know how many times we fell at the first hurdle against teams I'd never even heard of!
DD seems also to quite a quiet man, not often the public eye, so many fans may not even associate him too closely with our success.
Not many football club owners are loved for long, but I do think DD will be fondly remembered in our history.
.
b2k on August 7, 2008 12:11 PM....Said....
Good to see Fergus taking the plaudits....
He came out with an Arabic saying "The dogs can bark but the caravan moves on"
Sad to say the dogs were still barking as flag was raised in our new debt free full stadium but the cretins that did this know no better....
b2k....Never Heard the Phrase before....
o1bhoy
Paul,
Thanks as always for explaining the numbers.
In other news, Rangers can take comfort in that they weren't the only 2008 UEFA Cup finalists to be sent tumbling out of a competition this week. Last night, in the Russian Cup, Zenit St. Petersburg were sent packing when visiting second division side from Siberia, Sibir Novosibirsk, beat them 1-0. Zenit currently sit seventh in the Russian League. Too bad we can't draw them in the CL (they're also Pot 3) till at least the final 16.
Paul67
Can I be the first to congratulate you on your conversion to talking about cash and not get bogged down in amortisation.
Interesting article though I fear there is a whiff of reverse engineering where you are vainly searching for reasons to justify our current cash rich but talent limited position.
I fear that we are currently in a position where the boards ambition / imagination has been overtaken by our current resources. Not a good position to be in as I fear it shows we don't really have a plan for growth.
Your thoughts on why we should aim for cash in the bank border on the childish and show an unhealthy devotion to the curent safety first strategy.
We were extremely lucky to win the league last year as issues continued to dog our performance throughout. However the surge of emotion in the last two months saw it alright in the end but only a fool or a limited board strategy would bank on the status quo being retained if there was no significant investment in the team.
Last year's ultimately successful but in part makeshift team will not last till the end of September before poor form and age start to take their toll. Consequently the status quo is not an option.
I fear that this year will finally see the death of he golden goose that was the army of 53K season ticket holders. That is the bedrock of our business plan and a failure to surprise and delight means that empty seats will be the order of the day.
One question, wasn't the first SPL game of last season a sell-out?
From memory it was and this doesn't seem to be happening this year.
Consequently boast all you like about cash in the bank but for me it just shows the current limited ambition of the people in charge.
Quite sad really.
sannabhoy
Many thanks.
Hail! Hail!
Anorthosis Famagusta FC (CYP) v Olympiacos CFP (GRE)
Vitória SC (POR) v FC Basel 1893 (SUI)
FC Shakhtar Donetsk (UKR)K Dinamo Zagreb (CRO)
FC Schalke 04 (GER) v Club Atlético de Madrid (ESP)
Aalborg BK (DEN) v FBK Kaunas (LTU)
FC Barcelona (ESP) v Wisła Kraków (POL)
PFC Levski Sofia (BUL) v FC BATE Borisov (BLR)
R. Standard de Liège (BEL) v Liverpool FC (ENG)
FK Partizan (SRB) v Fenerbahçe SK (TUR)
FC Twente (NED) v Arsenal FC (ENG)
FC Spartak Moskva (RUS) v FC Dynamo Kyiv (UKR)
Juventus (ITA) v FC Artmedia Petržalka (SVK)
SK Brann (NOR) v Olympique de Marseille (FRA)
ACF Fiorentina (ITA) v SK Slavia Praha (CZE)
Galatasaray AS (TUR) v FC Steaua Bucureşti (ROU)
Panathinaikos FC (GRE) v AC Sparta Praha (CZE)
CL 3rd round qualification final draw. Could seem some weaker sides make it to the group stages
lubo1977
sale and leaseback of Ibrox would be near impossible to pull off satisfactorily.
It's in Rangers accounts at a highly inflated figure, one which is based on the cost of building a new stadium.
Lets say it's in at £100 million. Rangers would have a tax gain on that over actual cost paid. Given the actual cost plus indexation is probably under £40 million, then a tax bill if it was sold at £100 million would be approx 30% of £60 million. Rangers may be able to defer the tax because of previously accumulated losses. Rangers balance sheet would not be able to sustain a sale materially below £100 million. It would put MIH's balance sheet under pressure as well in that scenario
From the point of any potential acquirer then there are 3 things to consider. Yield, capital growth and the ability of your tenant to pay
Given that Capital growth potential is zero if the sale price is an already overvalued £100 million, then the yield on the rent would need to be astronomical to make it any way attractive. A yield of 12% would see rental charges of £12 million a year, which is way more than they ever make as profit. The reality is that the business(Rangers) isn't able to sustain anything other than a very low rental figure. Probably no more than £3 million a year, which makes ability to pay unattractive from the investors perspective
So no Capital growth, no prospect of a decent yield, very limited ability to pay by the new tenant. Add no reasonable prospect for profitable change of use or an alternative tenant, then you have a no deal situation.
The stadium revaluation which was allowed by the previous management at BOS to underwrite the high risk overspend of the 90's and early 2000's , is now a millstone round the neck of the Club and it's ownership
macjay: I have to disagree on Hugh MacDonald. I think he is the last decent sportswriter with a Scottish paper.
At least he didn't write one of those "Trust Sir Dave to sort this out" pieces of claptrap that most of the others usually spin.
There is something very interesting happening here that few people have picked up on: even Darrell King referred to Rangers as a "club in crisis".
The honour guard of the laptop loyal are in a sticky position. They see the rising strength of feeling amongst Rangers supporters against Murray and Bain so it's getting harder and harder to be popular with the hardcore Rangers supporters while still defending Sir Moonbeam. Effectively, more and more Rangers fans reckon that you can't back Murray and have the club's interests at heart.
For the likes of Darrell and Daryl, that's a real quandary. Murray is the man who can offer the patronage but is likely to be a here-today-gone-tomorrow chairman. Instinctively they want to keep sucking up but if they keep backing him, they risk watching his regime disintegrate and forever face the hostility of the fans who demanded change.
This is reminiscent of the last days of Maggie Thatcher when all the cabinet came in to tell her her time was up with only Michael Portillo backing her. Didn't do much for his career, did it?
macjay - The papers have been full of hurting hun "journalists" agonising over their team's humiliation.
Last season they were revelling in the prospect of the "quadrangle" and were almost tangibly willing the Rearrangers on, winking at the blatant cheating of McCurry while shrieking and howling with outrage at the slightest hint of a minor controversial decision going Celtic's way.
I'm loving it.
HOOPDOG ,
I think the manager actually said "it was unlikely that any new signings would "feature" on Sunday."
Distinct difference.
Jingle JAckson writes today,
RANGERS' Champions League fall guys are fighting to save their Ibrox careers after plans were drawn up to conduct a mass cull before the end of the month.
Record Sport understands chairman Sir David Murray will order manager Walter Smith to dump at least half a dozen duds before the transfer window closes in just over three weeks.
Murray and Smith will put on a united front tomorrow when they meet furious fans at Murray Park and promise that star man Carlos Cuellar will not be sold off to cover the cost of Tuesday night's £10million calamity in Kaunas.
Jingle Jackson wrote on 7th October 2004
After Jean-Alain Boumsong was linked again with Newcastle United, Rangers chairman David Murray has said that the French defender is ‘not for sale’.
Murray told his club’s official website: “First of all I think we have done a remarkable job in bringing Jean-Alaib Boumsong.
“It just shows the private jet thing still works!
“We are trying to build a team here, not break one up, and that’s why he was signed for five years. We have no intentions of wanting him to go.
“I hope he is here for many years. If he was to go in the future I would strike the best deal for the club.”
I´M LOOKING FORWARD TO THE CUELLAR INQUIRY
just reading an article on UEFA about Dynamo Kiev's draw with Drogheda last night and even the Kiev manager had a laugh at Ranger's expense:
The clash with former Soviet rivals Spartak is massive news in Ukraine, with the first leg in Moscow next week sure to dominate headlines, but Semin (Dynamo manager) put such concerns aside to praise Drogheda. "The Irish were very well prepared physically and have strong spirit." He also referred to Rangers FC's defeat against FBK Kaunas, saying: "You shouldn't be so harsh on us. At least we got through."
playfusbal4dguilders, thanks, I’d need to check on the year we repay the loan, but 2019 springs to mind. Cash can make you an attractive takeover target, but a lack of cash can make you vulnerable also. Both scenarios depend on DD wanting to sell, which he could chose to do under either circumstance (but I don’t think he will).
mcgraininspain, thanks. MIH is in considerable debt to HBOS, the Rangers subsidiary less so.
porridgeandbananas, Murray has received no serious interest in buying the club at the price he is willing to sell for. Tom Hunter was named as a potential investor in Rangers by David Murray himself in a 1999 interview with The Herald. Hunter declined to do so and I am assured has no interest in buying Rangers.
HOOPDOG, I think my words were within the next week, but either way, deals don’t happen to clockwork, we’ll hear when we hear.
Weeminger, that was the article I was referring to.
Hartson's comb, you are welcome.
Madmitch, you confuse my comment about cash in the bank with what Celtic have not had in 14 years – no cash in the bank. “Quite sad really”, being your summation.
Where to start? Quite sad really.
Paul - I will post my own response first before reading all previous.
This is very controversila stuff and I strongly suspect there will be many CQN readers (not just the 'usual suspects') appalled at your proposal. I would describe myself as at least very concerned. You have moved from a position of reducing debt to eliminating debt and now a £20-30M contingency fund. Is this the board's position or merely your personal preferred strategy? In any case, I suspect some will inevitably accuse you of being a board mouthpiece whose agenda is to downsize expectations regarding funds for new signings. Have other successful clubs adopted a similar model?
madmitch - I'm assuming you're not talking about our players under 30 feeling their age. So you're worried about Hartley and Nakamura (just) then?
Pardon me for being a Tim from the sticks, but since when has Paisley been considered part of Glasgow? I know that Falkirk is quite a distance away, so the banner on this website had me perplexed -
http://sport.setanta.com/en/Sport/News/Football/2008/08/07/SPL-Crosas-on-Celtic/
Thank you,
Curly
Madmitch - 'I fear that this year will finally see the death of he golden goose that was the army of 53K season ticket holders.'
Paul67 - 'The importance of season ticket sales to Celtic cannot be underestimated. This season has seen the return of the waiting list in earnest, perhaps as a result of the dramatic finale to last season, while clubs throughout Europe have seen sales fall.'
Who's got it right?
Wallowing still...
madmitch: It's easy to accuse people of being "childish" and spin the old lines about "lacking ambition" without offering anything better as a suggestion.
Some fans can only equate ambition with spending money. Personally, I think the "corporate Celtic" approach is in danger of deflecting fans from football.
At the same time, I don't want us risking the future of the club just to satisfy some people's desire to see £10m signings. Any Celtic fan who can't see that these are the good times should be looking closer to home for the answers to the problem.
BBC Predictions for the season from Billy Dodds, Murdo MacLeod, Pat Nevin, Craig Paterson and Chick Young.
All go for Celtic as Champions - except Dodds. Who unsurprisingly goes for a rearrangers title win. His logic is flawless....The Kaunas defeat will be a wakeup call, they will have to change their style of play, and they need to sign two or three players quickly.......Who am I to argue with that font of knowledge and logic ?
weeminger: Murray has a history of holding talks with investors in confidence and then spouting it to the media to seal the deal.
Mort - No one would have believed in the early years of the 21st century that our world was being watched by intelligences greater than our own; that as men busied themselves about their various concerns, *they* observed and studied, the way a man with a microscope might scrutinise the creatures that swarm and multiply in a drop of water. With infinite complacency, men went to and fro about the globe, confident of our empire over this world. Yet across the gulf of space, intellects vast and cool and unsympathetic regarded our planet with envious eyes and slowly, and surely, had a right good laugh at the huns.
Ooh-laaah!
Paul 67 Rainy days will come.
Cash will get us through them.
The board must find the balance of investing enough in the team to consistantly win the SPl ,as CL football would be assured and therefore an ever growing gap would appear between us and the Darnel.
We should have to ensure that we win the next twomSPL's.
This would give us an advantage that Minty could not catch.
He will sell ,the Tom HUNter's of this world will come in ,and The Darnel will have new blood transfused into them.
We are a wonderfull opportunity to bury them just now.
We should add quality to the playing squad where it is available ,and take the opportunity.
Investment in the side this season ,may bring even greater financial rewards over a longer period ,as there will be no way back for Minty.
Henriks Sombrero: While I think Billy Dodds is talking tosh, I actually quite like him. I think he is usually pretty fair with his commentaries.
Anybody else think that now the huns are out of Europe and need to sell to help the books that Celtic will now sit tight for another season with the same squad?
I am sure the SSM sees no need to strengthen the current team for the SPL and the CL is only a bonus and not overly important enough to invest in expensive playing staff.
This upcoming SPL looks like the most straight forward formality for Celtic EVER.
Re the waiting list for season tickets -
"The importance of season ticket sales to Celtic cannot be underestimated. This season has seen the return of the waiting list in earnest"
Paul67, for once I don't agree with you on that.
In the official website, the following is found -
Season 08/09 – season tickets
If you wish to purchase a season ticket, please visit the Celtic Ticket Office, open 9am til 5pm Monday to Friday, or call 0871 226 1888, option 1, option 2.
It is very easy to do, and only takes 5 minutes. I know, I did it and had that nice wee plastic card in my sweaty palms in only a few days.
So the waiting list is a myth (no, Clouseau, a myth, not a nightshift butterfly!!)
Sorry Paul, but you called that one wrong.
Cyrul
Zbyszek
Any Basa update? Found the article you refered to yesterday on a french site.
We were extremely lucky to win the league last season?
No we weren't. Luck, whatever it is, may have played a part. But not nearly as big a one as hard work, sound management, skill, ability and a committed support. We weren't "lucky" to sign Hartley Robson and Samaras, for example, possibly the decisive action of the season.
PS. I like lucky. I wish the tradition had been "Lucky Celtic" not "Lucky Rangers". I'll take it any day soon.
Henriks Sombrero - magical thinking.
If only Martin Bain puts on the ruby-red slippers and clicks his heels together three times while saying "There's no place like home", Rangers will win the league and a house will fall on Peter Lawwell.
Also Starring:
David Murray as The Wizard of Oz ("Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!")
Barry Ferguson as the Scarecrow ("If I only had a brain")
Big Fat Derek Johnstone as the Cowardly Lion
and featuring Nacho Novo as Toto, the annoying little lapdog
and the Rangers Supporters Trust as a troupe of flying monkeys.
So less controversial (so far at least) than I thought.
Historically we have almost invariably not pressed home any advantage, with almost invariably bad consequences. We underinvested last summer and nearly paid the price. But for JVOH's last minute winner in the first Parkhead match against Rangers, it would probably have been us who faced Kaunus on Tuesday.
Barcabhoy
Agree with you on the inflated value attached to Ibrox but hasn't MIM tried to rundown the value associated with TFOD / Ibrox in the parent company's accounts. I have always looked at this being an attempt to make the book value of the club closer to what people were prepared to pay.
The thought of a BS vs DM bunfight over the value of the TFOD would get my attention. A bit like an alligator vs an anaconda - great fight, don't care who wins as long as it takes forever.
regarding the footbal - first full 90 mins of the season.
Not to happy with what I saw.
AB = Looks like his MiL's cooking was too good to refuse.
AH = Not great, too often caught up in traffic.
SC = Good first half, struggled in the second as MC worked the channels on their left.
DO'D = Good game, looked composed / more settled than his partner.
LN = The world really is against him. Tried hard but the spark has gone.
PH = Put it about a bit, some good moves but his basic passing can be sloppy.
MD = Tried hard but still not fully at home. Stick or twist? I for one don't know.
TG = Taxi, two goals against TFOD will always be remembered but please go now.
PMcG = lightweight, scampers rather than runs. Took his goal well.
DR = Bus, useless to a fault.
JVoH = Tough shift on his own.
Subs
PC = Interesting, good going forward, limited help to AH in defence.
GS = Cameo performance, still half finished but the potential is there.
PMcC = Struggled, no space / little time but some good moves.
Overall we are still playing without enough football intelligence. The fast tempo passing is no use if there is no forward movement. Gave the impression that no-one wanted to take responsibility for starting a move. Too often the fb's were left with little time and space and the only option left to them was a punt up the park. Desperately needed a CB to walk the ball out of defence with an easy option in MF if the squeeze was put on.
Consequently much to do.
PS
SC and DO'D need work but should deliver.
Tough shift but it will be good experience.
Bryce, for heaven’s sake, no, this is my view only. And, I was careful not to call for £20m or £30m in the bank, just available, which will include o/d facilities.
The alternative view has merit, but we have moved into dominance as a consequence of not following the spend, spend, spend strategy Rangers hung themselves with, and when the real challenge comes, as it will one day, I would want to be able to move quickly and decisively.
TT, I am sure investment will come, and that we will move further ahead, but players only last for so long, our 20+ lead in 2004 evaporated within a year.
Curly, that is interesting, as I am still waiting to hear about my boy’s ticket application. Perhaps they are holding back kids tickets to try to sell full price tickets.
Bhoy_Molloy: I really hope people don't view it that way. Celtic have a huge advantage but any loss of focus or presumption that what we have will be enough is likely to end it tears.
We have a strong squad with crucial weaknesses that will first be exposed in the Champions League. I honestly doubt that the current squad will reach the last 16 without a very favourable draw. I am also concerned that we are still short of a goalscorer and people seemed to have stopped talking about that.
We need to account for losses of goalscoring touch in our strikers and have at least a "supersub" as backup.
Will MacDonald and Vennegoor of Hesselink score as many or more goals than last year? Doubtful, I think. Samaras is a player I like but I don't think he'll ever be a goal machine.
With the current front line - all of whom I rate highly - I think we can expect to see more runs where the goals dry up and that would be costly.
YAY!
I've worked out how to post on the new format. First off a HUGE thanks to Paul for helping me out with this. Sorry I was a pain. Secondly commiserations to the Orcs. It may be of little consolation now but you made me a very happy bhoy.
Finally, why has all signing and transfer talk virtually stopped compared to the last few days. Is that yesterday's news or is it the calm before the white smoke?
Anyway, bring on Sunday!
Evander Sno is on the bench for the Dutch in their Olympic Game vs. Nigeria that just kicked off a few minutes ago.
Chris Killen's New Zealand is also in action, vs. hosts China, but can't make out yet if he's on the field.
You remember when Boumsong wasn't for sale at any price, then Alan Hutton was not for sale at any price, just wondering when we'll hear that Cuellar isn't for sale at any price either.....
Plus i think its about time The Ibrox Casino was back in the limelight
Madmitch - May I ask you a question or 3?
What would be the ideal happenings at Celtic Park that would make you happy? This is not a loaded question, just generally interested.
Would spending oodles or moonbeams on players and getting us into debt (al la the re-arangers model) me your preferred method?
I understand the frustrations, dont get me wrong, we seem to have money but are not spending it, although emphisis is on the word seem.
I wont us to win the Champs league. but ultimately, we wont do so playing in the SPL, last 8 should be the next target, and under Gordon Strachan I think we are on course. We're not getting in debt, we have won the league 3 years on the trot, and 2 years on the trot we have made the last 16. I personally think that the progress we are making is there to see. Infact, Id be dissapointed if we dont make the last 8 this time.
But anyway, seriously, please tell me your ambitions, and what you would do to achieve them.
Guys,
Anyone know of a CSC in Oban? I'm on a stag weekend the same day as the Rangers game and was looking to get on a supporters' bus back to Glasgow for the 12.30 kick off.
I've had a look at CelticBars.com but there's nothing listed for Oban.
Can anyone help?
Paul -
Maybe the tickets confiscated last night will be up for sale soon - at a reduced rate of course, since the Man City friendly is over?
Lurcy
Bhoy Malloy,amazed at your comments,"no need to strengthen,straight forward formality to win SPL" If we don't strengthen we have added Paddy McCourt to last season.Can I remind you that we scraped in the back door like you cannot believe last season.Rangers have increased/improved their squad. They no longer have the European commitment.Very risky if we do not recruit.
Paul, in the current EPL driven transfer climate and with possible changes on entry to competitions by Michel Platini based on the debt position of clubs, throw in the credit crunch, I'm incined to agree.
I would like the squad "strengthened" but not buying a £5m player (like for like two years ago was probably £1m) who is no better than what we have. When we bought Chris Sutton he was £6m. Roque Santa Cruz, is as close a resemblance in age, type/class of player I can come up with who is currently in the EPL, he would cost £15-20m. Unfortunately the EPL is also driving prices up outwith the EPL.
I dont know if I am happy now with what we have or depressed by our position in the food chain!
VargasShampoo on August 7, 2008 1:03 PM
Plus i think its about time The Ibrox Casino was back in the limelight
They gambled and lost the other night!!
Ryclu
Anyway Paul, what a good picture you paint. What could possibly make us happier heading into Flag Day?
I know. A quality signing or two, and Falkirk at the top of the league on Saturday night.
Auxerre president confirming we have officially retracted our bid for Tamas.
Where is Joshybhoy when you need him?
We were extremely lucky to win the league last season?
i would take a lucky manager over a good manager any season, McLeish was lucky, O'Neil was unlucky.
Shug1888: So you'd rather have McLeish than O'Neill?
Excellent read, really enjoyed that.
I hope the board can sieze on the fact that it will become increasingly difficult for the SPL runners-up to enter the Champions League and act accordingly. Its extremely important they do whatever it takes to support the manager in keeping Celtic as top dogs in the SPL for the next couple of seasons. Do that and our advantage over Rangers may grow to a level which they will find hard to recover from.
Paul67, I know its difficult with a lack of accounts, but have you any plans to do a financial appraisal of Rangers' current financial situation and what failure to qualify for Europe means to their debt position and overall finances? Id be very interested in reading that.
mcgraininspain.
Even if the numbers are still as high as last season, we have had to sell many more concession tickets this season to make up the numbers.
Therefore income for season ticket sales (in real terms)is diminishing.(E.G.Below)
It was difficult to tell from last nights attendance ,who has renewed and who ,just didn't turn up on the night.
All around where i sit, there were several missing faces.
I know of 3 fans who have definitley ,not renewed in my small area of the ground.The other thing is that these tickets cost approx £1600 plus vat each.
I was offerred the seat next to me for £595 plus vat, as a child seat.
I haven't taken it.
If i had, then Celtic could rightly post that one seat had not be renewed ,but there is no concern as it was taken by another supporter.This would be true ,but so would the fact that Celtic had lost income of £1000 on that seat.
P.S. I am not complaining about Celtic trying to attract more yougster's to come along.They are the future of our club.I am just pointing out that even though we sell the same number of seats ,it doesn't mean that our income from it has been maintained.
Faced with dropping renewals, the club are left the option to offer concession's to attract new season ticket holders.They would be negligent not to.
They would not be able to offer more concession's if everybody renewed there season tickets.
So it goes without saying that many have decided not to renew there season tickets.
We must ask ourselves why? When we have just done 3IAR and been in the last 16 of the twice.
Some fan's have not found the football to be value for money and have decided to spend there time elsewhere ,and on other thing's.
The topic of lack of entertainment alway's rears it's head.
The Darnel capitualting has helped relieve some of the pressure on Celtic.
Us winning the SPl has helped load lot's more pressure on them.
A couple of quality signing's would help re-invigor those ,whose thirst for watching Celtic has decreased.
We have a wonderfull opportunity to bury the Rangers that David Murray built and force him into having to sell at a price which would break his heart.
I for one one would find some solace in this ,as the man broke my heart during there 9IAR.
Shug1888 - I bet Aston Villa fans are cursing themselves for not having Eck McLeish at the helm, and having to make do with Martin O'Neill instead. :-/
Oh how the tables have turned!!!!!!!!!
FROM THE HERALD, MARCH 2000
Murray's Blueprint
Just as promised, Rangers are moving on to another level from the rest of Scottish football, as chairman David Murray announced a new investment of 53m for the Ibrox club, with a further massive cash boost soon to follow. The eventual cash injection could soar as high as 80m as Murray guides the club into what he believes will be a new, golden era for the Scottish champions.
The money involved, the biggest financial boost for any Scottish football club, will enable them to move into Europe's elite over the next few years. Yesterday, however, Murray maintained, as always, that he will not turn his back on Scottish football to play in any other league, and that while he remains in charge of the club, he will retain a responsibility to the domestic game."
It is clear from this latest move, however, that the Glasgow giants are setting an agenda that no other Scottish club can match - and that appears to include their Old Firm rivals, Celtic, who are trailing by 15 points in the Premier League championship and are now looking at a financial gap which
the Parkhead club might not be able to bridge. There have been hints around Glasgow that Celtic could be ready to attempt a share flotation of their own, but it would seem unlikely they would be able to match the financial clout that Murray has put together. The Ibrox chairman promised his shareholders good news and a more prudent financial strategy at the last annual meeting of the club. He has now delivered this by taking on board several very heavy financial hitters, South African-based David King is worth around 300m - 20m of which he is investing in the club he followed as a young man in Glasgow."
The Ibrox chairman has spent several months and many sleepless nights piecing together the plans which will eliminate Rangers' debt, currently sitting at around 40m, provide finance for the new training centre and the soccer academy which will be housed there, and still allow cash to invest in new players.
He said: 'I want to make it clear from the outset that while our small shareholders, our supporters who have an interest in the club, will have the opportunity to invest again if they want, there is no pressure on them to do so. The bulk of the rights issue is being taken up by myself and David King and some other smaller investors, including Alastair Johnston, who is a long-time Rangers' supporter.'
'We also have Trevor Hemmings coming in as an investor and Tom Hunter will join us some time in the future. Essentially, the investment we require is in place and we also have a major media deal in the pipeline which is very exciting and will bring in further serious investment to the club. I told you earlier this week that I had run the club up to now on a high-risk strategy which has involved carrying large debt. These days are over. The whole method of running the club is going to change, because we are in a situation right now where we do not need to take the risks we have had to take in the past. We don't have to spend the same money on players, for example, as we have had to do over the past two years when we were restructuring the team after the arrival of Dick Advocaat. At the moment, we have two new players set for next season, Allan Johnston and Fernando Ricksen and Dick is looking for another quality striker. He is working hard on that right now.'
'Dick and myself know what we are aiming for. We want to be in the Champions League every season. This is what we want for the club and this is what we have been working towards. However, we shall not be going on any wild spending sprees in the transfer market.'
'We have a player or two to add to the squad - a top-class international front player, as I said, but we don't need to buy Numan, van Bronckhorst, Mols, Reyna, or McCann - because we have these lads in place already. Believe me when I tell you that we are going for it this time - we want to be successful in Europe, and the money we are raising now will take us there.'
'This is the last part of the jigsaw for me, but we shall always be a part of Scottish football and we will take our domestic responsibilities seriously. We respect the other teams in the Premier League and we know this news will make them try even harder against us. But, so be it. 'Barcelona don't win every week. Bayern Munich don't win every week. Manchester United don't win every week. Yet, our supporters expect us to do so and we shall always try to do that. What we do know is that to be in the Champions League, we have to win the Scottish title, and that is our aim every season. We shall always be here with our roots.'
However, the mega-deals Murray has been working on are sure to carry Rangers out of the reach of their rivals here at home and unless Celtic can somehow find the means to strengthen their own financial standing even the age-old rivalry between the Glasgow giants will be threatened as the Ibrox men grow ever stronger.
Perhaps we should contain the gloating a wee bit however, and hope that the board understand what happened over there and make sure it never happens to us in the future.
Ulryc
Barcabhoy - thanks for that. Good to know the one option I thought they might have is also closed to them :) They truly are Donald Ducked.
Re: Tom Hunter - I can't see him getting involved. He, like Murray, got involved in the inflated housing market with our old friends HBOS. He's also just lost quite a bit of cash in a high profile legal case with Tesco and on top of all that he's committed to giving Bill Clinton $1 Billion over the next 10 years to his Aids charity.
All in all, I can't see him having the appetite for Rangers when there wouldn't seem to be any financial return in it for him.
My Dad reckons the only ones interetsed enough will be the "hardcore" support from N Ireland. Any money they have will likely come from gun running & drugs....watch this space.
rumour
http://boards.footymad.net/mboard/fmb.php?tno=463&fid=221&sty=2&act=1&mid=2128808335
ulster-celt
Guys,
some of you are talking past each other. Surely this is about balance? Not either we spend all our money or we spend none of our money?
I do think it is worth reflecting on this:
While our league win might not have been 'lucky', it was CLOSE. Very, very close. Whether we look at JVOH's late winner, or Motherwell's scrappy equalizer in the 2nd last game against rangers - it was very, very close.
Now, while I think that we spent much of the season UNDER achieving and they spent much of it OVER achieving - it was still very close.
This season, they don't have Europe to distract them. All else being equal, their chances of winning the league went up this week.
I would HOPE that we stop under achieving and just simply 'achieve' and therefore bridge that particular gap. However, I would hate to leave things that much to chance.
Clearly, we missed transfer targets last August, and this hurt us. We did VERY well in January: Samaras, Hinkle, Robson. I just don't think we should be in the position of not getting most of what we need this August.
I'm not going to lecture folk on where we need strengthening. Gordon says we need to buy a few players and that's good enough for me. But we need to get it done.
I'm all for building a nest egg. I possibly feel more strongly about this than Paul, even.
However, we need to get more assets on the park. We absolutely need to do this. Let's not kid ourselves.
I actually thought Celtic were pretty unlucky for large periods of last season against a Rangers team who had everything fall in place for them right up to the last third. Once their luck ran out and we got over our injuries the equilibrium returned to normal.
Paul - thanks for the clarification. I agree this is a difficult balancing act. Reaching the group stages of the Champions League (which increasingly relies on winning the SPL) is surely key to our success. Given our present advantage over our rivals, I believe we should invest in the playing squad to the extent that we are confident of achieving this something like 90% of the time. In terms of cost-effectiveness, 100% (not to mention later rounds) would cost hugely more. Would you agree?
lubo1977: I wonder if things crash far enough might Rangers find salvation with a Ken Bates type of character?
Nah - Rangers and salvation? :)
Just off the phone to the ticket office there and there are special season tickets without the Rangers games available to buy. I was hoping there would be one near me in 111 for my youngest bhoy but the nearest available seat is in 115. I was thinking of buying it and him sitting up with us anyway as there are always seats around us empty. Just thinking about it before maybe phoning back.
Disco Stu .Yet again ,absolutely bang! on.
Paul 67
I hadn't renewed my season ticket last season for financial reasons. I wasn't on the waiting list but had no problem ringing up and buying one a few weeks ago. It arrived in the post a few dayss later.
bazzabhoy
Quick answer, I would like a strategy for growth, improvement.
Investment = Mainly 22-25 yr olds.
Succession planning = Talent pipeline
Wage Bill = £25mill + bonuses
U19's = Work on them.
Invest if the U17 squad moving up have gaps.
Crossas deal = Great, way of the future.
Loan deals = Way of testing our 20yr olds.
Specifically a working arrangement with a smaller championship / Div1 team.
Look to the US for support + talent.
Bring across 18 yr old as amateurs to be put through college.
Set up a XXX Celtic at the level below the professional teams. East coast / New England prefered.
Try and increase our presense in Ireland.
Aim for a £5mill pa charity turnover - two games a season specifically for this. One pre, one post season.
Some of these are being attempted.
Not all may be possible but we should try harder to move forward.
lubo1977
None of the neanderthals over here who support TFOD, would have the capacity to invest, and even if they did the Assets Recovery Agency might have something to say about it :o)
By GreenDog on August 7, 2008 9:58 AM
had same problem both my sons and my card came up as unauthorised
steward wouldnt let me in had to q at the ticket office for 40 mins in pouring rain to be advised that as I had recently re-located they had sold tickets for my seats and i should have been issued paper tickets.
I now have paper tickets for Sundays as the same has happened again and they have held onto my season tickets to double check they will work got in 5 mins after kick off
thought all the youngsters were excellent playing for a career and a contract rather than Riordan and Graveson who were going through the motions.
Caddis should start in front of Brown wide right on Saturday, he is miles better at that position
Brown then has to work to remove either Robson or Hartley for one of the central positions
and please pleease sign a quality left back
weeron
brilliant contribution,right on the money except I think we were lucky and you did'nt want to say that word.
"We must never surrender our period of domination so easily".
So its No Surrender then, I like that, it could catch one, does sound a tad familiar though.
Oh_Dannys_Bhoy, I’ve emailed you in the last couple of minutes.
Leabrannagh, indeed.
naesnakesinOK, it sure would.
The judge, yes, expect plenty of financial comment this month.
Bryce Curdy, 1:20, complete agreement.
Bhoybhoywalter, must be waiting list for kids, or maybe just mine!
Devil's Advocate
Oban is a Celtic town....they're all Celtic pubs! Seriously you must have seen the Oban CSC banner at Paradise. Huge fan base there...there must be more than a couple of buses from Oban. You should maybe contact Peter Rafferty's CSA.
Right now, Rangers are about as attractive to serious investors as Gordon Brown and David Cameron re-enacting the sexy pottery wheel scene from "Ghost".
Righteous Brothers CSC
Paul - with regard to achieving CL group stages around 90% of the time, would you accept that our spend last summer was a gamble that nearly cost us dearly? I know there was a good response in January, but like many supporters I would prefer a more proactive and less reactive policy.
lovejoysalegend
Wouldn't that be great - Rangers seized as an asset involved in organised crime....and then auctioned off at the Central Hotel to the highest bidder :)
MgGregor, Whitaker, Broadfoot, Weir, Papac, Daily, Adam, Novo, Thomson, McCulloch, Miller….sounds great doesn’t it - give them all 5 year contract extensions Walter!.
Paul,
Some good info there.
Is there any news of Celtic pursuing the way the CL TV revenue gets shared out. I read an article a few months back that Platini was going to look at this (but would need to negotiate with the bigger leagues for them to take a cut). I assume its currently dealt out by population figures as Scotland only has about £5-7m and yet the top 4 in England can easily make £10-15m more than us from their CL jaunts. This excludes performance and win bonuses; its purely the TV reveneu cash. Population or which ever means seems unfair as we are not limited to having viewers just in Scotland. Should it not be on the potential of the club's support or something similar. Even an extra £5m would be great for us.
The only viable way of Celtic making bigger strides (ie more than a few million) in terms of revenue is to pursue this angle and to keep progressing in the CL; until such times as we find ourselves with opportunities in more lucrative leagues.
On the signings front, I'm also a little worried that if Basa and Madrid1 are not on the horizon then there is not much else we'll get in the current market for the type of money we are looking to pay that will be better than what we have. The key for attacking full backs and an attacking midfield is 2 very good CB's. McManus has been getting a lot of stick but I think he will perform a lot better with a more able partner.
Caddis and Cuthbert impressed lastnight and I think Cuthbert should go the Championship on loan to get that experience and challenge next season.
Fazza
Right now, Rangers are about as attractive to serious investors as Annabel Goldie dressed in a skimpy outfit, draping herself over a Jaguar like the ginger bint in that Whitesnake video.
madmitch
i think MIH took a one off impairemnent charge on their investment in Rangers. If i remember correctly they did that in the same year they sold their crown jewels ( steel business) , which was 2006 . Without checking, and right now i dont have time, i seem to remember that this would have required a sale well above likely realisable enterprise value to avoid MIH taking a serious bath.
I would be surprised if 2007's results of a net profit of £10 million, in what was a healthy market for them, could be repeated in 2008.The sectors that they operate in are challenging just now. That would leave no room for further impairement against their Rangers investment
I would imagine Murray is motivated to sell.2 reasons for that.
Firstly I suspect he knows he has been financially outgunned and outmanouevered by Celtic and grief rather than glory is the order of the day.
Secondly, there will be good buying opportunities appearing in property and some other sectors next year. He will want cash to take advantage of these. I suspect he doesn't see Charlie Adams and co's wages as any kind of good investment
Paul
Any updates regarding Crosas and sigings you alluded to yesterday?
Paul67, excellent article which calmly takes stock of where we are. Are you doing similar for TFOD?
A number of points starting with the crucial error(s) which brought Murray's house of cards to its present unenviable position.
Murray's ego spent, spent, spent unnecessarily when they had the better of us and they are now truly repenting at leisure. As to where the £50m is, I am no accountant but it looks to me like it is lurking in MIM's accounts and is being serviced, if not reduced, by the monies received from transfers/euro income(sorry, this one should be 'was being serviced'). There is no way Murray is taking a hit of £50m for Rangers, even though he has done very well out of a club bought for £6m if I recall correctly. As for suitors (Soutars?), there will be some when as Mr Crowther says 'the price is right' and they will return to compete with us like Sauron's hordes chasing 'the precious'.
In response, we will need to be ready, but, we have our own ambitions and a steady course must be set between the polar opposites of splurging and outright frugality. I for one would like to see us, as one poster put earlier, be 10% better than them for then we would accumulate cash and gain auto entry into the CL EVERY season. That would accumulate cash and they would get weaker. If we really want to go for Euro success, yes, spend money but I think we will always have a glass ceiling in the SPHell. Money must be spent wisely and, much as I like him, see positive progress in many areas and believe that he gets a raw deal in comparisons with MON and from a loud section of our support, I have my doubts about GS ability to sign players (good/bad ratio is still lopsided for me) and suspect about his coaching/motivational ability. maybe my technical eye is not great but I have to agree that some of our football is question mark quality and downright boring. We must remember that they have been weak for a few years now and this may be masking our own problems.
Cost/benefit:
Option 1(Low-cost): don't spend anymore/much more apart from criticals (LB,CB) and coach/motivate current squad to SPL and maybe last 16 again. remember a number of players did not play to form for large patches last season and we had a load of injuries where TFOD had none until the sweet, blissful end. Money saved put to pay down debt and save for downturns.
Option 2(target) : spend budget and look to make steady euro progress. Continue improving squad, rationalise where possible and buy 1st team, euro quality (ie/ not potential) CB,LB,CF,DM. Spend budget and continue on course slowly moving to debt free.
Option 3(splurge): spend budget and more to finance glory run to last 8 in europe and beyond. Have as many midfielders as WS has central defenders and have a couple of stellar signings mongst the 4 mentioned earlier.
I despair at the (media led fans) who seek option 3 and hate GS/The Board/The PLC/Western Democracy etc. and hope that we continue with option 2 but am wary of the threats to our opportunities.
Finally, maybe those despicable prostitutes in the press are doing us a service after all by always praising the emperor's new clothes all these years. GIRFUT. especially the Uncle Tims who are a firkin disgrace.
Philvis,onestar et al.,12.34,12.35
As I said,happy to be corrected by those closer to the truth.
I and ours are also luvvin it,and I mean LOTS of young Aussie Tims.
When I read that article,got the overwhelming impression that it represented same old,same old.
Oz just went one up against Serbia,has to be said ,against the run of play.
Then again,who gives a monkey`s.
Right now, Rangers are about as attractive to serious investors as Josef Fritzl's audition for "Changing Rooms".
anyone at home with nothing to do Evander and the Netherlands are in action at the moment on Eurosport
Paul67,
With regards the season ticket waiting list, my son was also on the waiting list and I was told that a letter would be issued when tickets were available.
As no letter had arrived I contacted the Ticket Office again and was in fact offered several tickets in the same area as myself (North Stand Upper).
I was able to purchase a child season ticket for £50. Tickets normally cost £550 in the same area.
If you've not heard about your own sons application, it might be worthwhile contacting the ticket office, as there does seem to be seats available.
HtHH
This has probably been said before but Paul Caddis: if he continues to play like he did yesterday then we have just saved ourselves a huge amount of money in replacing Naka when he goes. I was stunned by his ability to keep the ball and find a team mate with his final ball, but more so by his confidence.
Had he been a new signing and played like that we would have been praising the SSM for his diligence and the Scouts for their knowledge. The bhoy is going to be a star.
He should start on Sunday. Never mind playing central midfield players wide right when you have that type of talent who is naturally inclined to play there.
Paul Caddis, this seasons Aiden McGeady?
You heard it here last.
There are three things that worry me most from last season and I feel that they are points of concern or to take a positive slant,areas of opportunity.
1) A huge percentage of our victories were by one goal advantage.Have a look back at the results and compared with previous years we scraped through so many times - a worry.
2) our lack of pace throughout the team I think is a real worry as in this day and age that is what normally makes the difference between good and great.I think this is a major weakness that really needs addressing (please don't make winning the league or Rangers our benchmark.
3)Perhaps the most worrying is the lack of goals from midfield.Again look at our last 12 months history and our poor goal contribution from midfield really needs to be sorted.As I have said previously Robson,Hartley and Brown were regular goalscorers for previous clubs.Robson has scored a couple from set pieces but not from open play.Aiden and Naka don't score and what's really of concern they don't look like scoring,no close misses. All these pre season friendlies and no goals from Robson ,Brown,Donatti etc. This really has to be sorted as we are far too reliant on the front two and if you look back in history (Lisbon Lions) you should be able to strike from all areas of the pitch but definately from midfield.BIG ISSUE.
Sir Paul
Jist in frae da jiggin'...will stay awake as long as ah kin..
Howevahhhhhhhh ...
Debt.. Debt..A Cripplin'.Stultyfiyin'... Paralyzin',BEHEMOTH
... leading "Inevitably"..not to mention... "Ineluctably"..which ah Shan't!... tae Impecunity...followed by the Expiration and Elimination of the Company.
Wella,wella,pard...
I am happy tae say that Celtic have been chip, chip,chippin' away at this Beast..and..
This year... we should see the elimination and defeat of this Debilitatin' Monster..
No Bad Woik...at awe, at awe..
Sombreros, shall be cast Heavenward....and... Mr. Quinn ..
who must take maist o' the Credit ( Whit?...ed) ( Yer right,pal... Bad choice o' woid...check dat..hoo aboot?..)or, to put it more clearly..maist o' the KUDOS.... in setting the Company Debt Parameters, so STRINGENTLY , and LAYING THE GROUND RULES TO BE FOLLOWED BY HIS SUCCESSORS.
Fargo is Pleased. We ur Pleased... collie's tail is Furiously... Awaggin',Awaggin'... Thanks be to, Godo!
CELTIC, SHALL BE NO LONGER BE THE SLAVE OF THE BANKING ESTABLISHMENT.
As a far wiser man, that Ah ..wance said..
"Happy Days ur here Again!...from noo on .. the only thing Tae Fear...is the Fear o' FEARING... ITSEL'!"(Whit!...ed)( Ah Know.. sounds .. cuckoo... but, it still maks sense tae me!)
Kojo.
I have found on several occasions that a direct approach to the ticket office works wonders. I was in the upper Lisbon Lions and wanted a relocation to get the derby games. Two seasons of writing and asking to be put on the relocation list did nothing - not even an acknowledgement, my mate in the upper North told me the seat next to him had been up for public sales all season so just went to the ticket office, said "hey, can I have that seat there please", yep, no bother, seat moved there and then.
Killen almost scored a free kick. NZ are 1-0 up against China
By jamesielegend on August 7, 2008 12:26 PM
To sum up, I take the credit for the goal, I f i hadn't turned over at that point Rangers would've got through ; - )
thanks :)
Good day folks,
Feel bound to comment on the reports in the press on last nights game; talk about Lazy Journalism ? Completely ignoring Caddis's performance, no matter it being a friendly, just goes to show these guys must be writing with their heads down, or have their own agenda to follow, irrespective of what is actually happening on the field. Even Glenn Gibbons reported that Caddis came on at right back - OK, your on the other side of the park, but a wee visit to an opticians is required for that comment.
On the bright side, I think we have a stand-in for the right wing on Sunday, and hopefully a right-back spot on a regular basis. Thats twice Caddis has come on for a half and been MOTM. outstanding.
PAUL67
AN EXCELLENT POST PAL
whilst i take your point re money in the bank
i think it is more important to stay ahead by purchasing a better quality of player , this will ensure CL automatic qualification .This will allow us to generate significantly more income than our rivals...which will allow us to afford better players
...which will enable us to win theleague
...which enable us to achieve CL automatic entry
..which will make us more attractive to foreign players
and so on and so forth
not as simple as that i know
but, are we not better building from a position of strength
we will be out of sight of our rivals if we were to win , say, the next 5 SPL titles , whilst securing CL entry
forge on with prudence , don`t hoard cash just in case they get lucky with a benefactor or get some good players on the cheap
imo ...we played an overly prudent financial game last season and very nearly got stung
winning the league with automatic CL qualification is paramount ....look at the plight of the poor Govanites
to ensure winning the league ...we must bring in a better class of player
onwards and upwards
Devil's advocate
Try The Woodside on Tweedale St. Oban Emerald CSC left from there.
Macjay - Thanks for info. Would love to see some impartial comment in any of the printed media. Whats your thoughts on Graham Spiers?
Regarding Sir Mintys Millions and Sir Davids House Of cards
Question has always been "How much has Sir Minty made from Rfc?
He bought the business for £6m. He then borrowed against it. he has subsequently sold shares and bought them back at vastly reduced rates ( Enic / NTL ) By conservative calculations he is rumoured to have trousered approx £40m from his time so far ( more than Fergus ) and is still counting the income he receives. Remember, through the myriad of companies, he in effect supplies RFC with everything from Computer systems to catering. He simply adds a margin and RFC have to pay.
Got to say my pet hate is Lapdog Laptop loyal and Derek Johnstone etc always declaring "Sir Minty has backed RFC with his own money" - He hasnt,this has never been the case. He has swindled them out of their blue and tangerine pounds for many a year. The only cash he spent was the £6m he bought the company with and that was borrowed from BOS.
Has anyone any information on Hugh Adam? I am sure I heard some time ago he was going to publish major criticism of Murray after Murray hounded him out of RFC?
Disco Stu,
Our strikers will score goals this season without blistering pace. However, it would be handy if we had at least one speed-merchant that we could bring on in the last 20 minutes of games to stretch teams. Perhaps one of the young players (Sheridan?) or a new signing (this mysterious other fella from Barca- Jeffren Suarez?) could do this. Agent Miller was good for one thing, ha!
The new CB and LB will have to be quick, as a prerequisite.
On the goals-from-midfield front, I'd wager that both Robson and McGeady will both score 10+ goals this season. You can quote me :)
Hi Paul
Is it just me or are the scottish press trying to sell Carlos Cuellar for Ragers (who by the way have said there will be no fire sale after the shock exit - aye rite!). So far the poodle press including Shuggie Keevins on Radio Snide has mentioned spurs for 12 Million and now in the Evening Times we have Thomas Jordan punting him to Aston Villa for 10 Million. The lackey's are doing their duty bigtime. They have been successful in the past and am sure they will recoup the european deficit for the Ibrox club this time also.
Very good article Paul.
The bit that particularly chimes with my own outlook is the paradoxical situation of Champions League money.
The summer is the prime period of the year for transfer activity - but it is also the time when a number of clubs have the least idea how much money they have to spend, since they don't yet know whether they're going to qualify for next year's group stages.
This is why it is so vital - escpecially, as you point out, with the upcoming rule change - that we win the SPL. Vital.
We will not, for the foreseeable future, be one of those clubs challenging for the CL trophy. Our domestic situation in Scotland simply does not allow that. However, we must not retreat into our shells expenditure-wise, even at this time of financial instability. We have to maintain a high profile in the transfer markets, and in CL performance, so that when opportunities to move upward from our domestic situation arise, we will be seen as a big hitter who ought to be included. I think Mr Lawwell and others at the club have already done sterling work in forging links of mutual respect with the larger clubs on the continent.
A balance must be struck. This balance must bear in mind that the risks involved in failing to win the SPL are huge - as our city neighbours are finding out.
Fighting the Fuzz Since 1888
I hope you are right but is your confidence based on anything with regards to midfield? Anyway 10 goals each doesn't excite me that much.
Madmitch - Thanks for the reply. I agree, we should attempt to do somthing in USA, with the amount of ex pat tims over there it makes sense.
We were extremely lucky to win the league last season?
i would take a lucky manager over a good manager any season, McLeish was lucky, O'Neil was unlucky.
Did you know that there are 10 types of people in the world?
Those that get binary and those that dont.
Crosas?
What is the story with Marc Crosas? Has he signed? Is he likely to sign?
As most of you will know, sky and setanta have said that Barcelona have agreed to sell him to Celtic for around Nine Hundred Thousand Euro's. I can only assume that he has yet to agree personal terms as there appears to be no official statement as yet from Celtic Park.
Can anyone enlighten me further?
I think Murray's caught in a bad situation in that I don't actually think his bank will allow him to sell.
By that I mean that any potential buyer will want to have money to invest in the team say £20M, and let's put a reasonably realistic value of £30-40M on the club, so they'd need £60M.
For starters I'm not sure why anybody would pay that kind of money when there's no chance of getting any reasonable return. Secondly it doesn't include the club's debts which will no doubt be getting back up to the £30M+ mark by the end of the season and nobody will pay £100M-ish for the club plus debt clearance.
So DM could maybe walk away with a bit of a break even (not counting the profits he made from contracting services to Rangers from his other companies). The other factor is the £50M he shuffled into Rangers a couple of years back was actually stock sold to his other companies.
Do we think his bank are going to be happy with him wiping a minimum £50M in debts and investments off his books?
Or am I way off the mark with this summation of his plight.
bazzabhoy
11 types, those that don't , those that do and those that always want to go one better :-)
Vertwolf
Disco Stu,
10+ goals each would be great! (Especially since we hardly ever get penalties for Robson to add to his tally.)
I just think that Robson is a natural goal-scorer and each year Mcgeady has made such great strides in an area of his game, last season it was pace and crossing and the season before last it was his workrate and tackling. He's said in interviews that he wants to score more, and I think he's got the talent and mental-strength to do it.
Aiden's 15 Goals CSC
Freddiebhoy - as with the Hutton transfer, money coming in, but one of your best players leaving; not sure this is good business. I'd be happy if this what they are reduced to.
Paul, I'm the same as Curly..I phoned up after getting an email from Celtic Park and I never mentioned this email..just said I was on the waiting list and 5 mins later I had a season ticket..Didn't seem to be too many questions or ref numbers etc needed...Just the credit card.
Still hasn't arrived yet though..got a paper ticket for the macth on sunday but can't make it..Anyone want it?
Bhoy_Molloy ( 12:54 PM ) said -
"This upcoming SPL looks like the most straight forward formality for Celtic EVER."
-----------------
Noooooooooooo!
In the name of the Celtic, let's not fall into that one.
Remember 2002/2003?
Who was the better team then? By far the better team?
We were.
Who won the league?
They did.
Remember Artmedia - how could we forget?
Everyone was writing us off after that game, we would implode.
What happened?
We won the league by close on 20 points.
The bookies still make Celtic and Rangers pretty much level in the betting for this year's SPL. They do not make their substantial profits by offering odds of 5/6 on a formality. And they know that Rangers' elimination from Europe gives them a significant advantage in terms of fitness, injuries, and preparation time.
Thankfully, I am confident that Messrs Lawwell and Strachan don't share your complacency...
Very late equaliser for China from a lovely header. I feel quite sorry for NZ as they've played the majority of the game with 10 men and it it looked like they were about to hold out for the win.
My dear,dear,dear,dear,dear,friend... PF Ayr
I am surprised at you, my friend...
You of all people should know... the the phrase..
"We should buy a better quality of Player" is next door...if not actually, living in... the same abode... as our limpid friend... "Meaningless".
That phrase is quickly earning all of the Trappings of being a..... TIRESOME,PLATITUDE!
It sounds good... but,in the Real Woild , where... unfortunately .. Celtic ...do dwell...
It is not only easier said, than done...
It PLAINLY... CANNOT BE DONE!
Money, my friend... or the Lack of Same... is the Culprit.
Therefore, I for one ... am becoming more and more irritated by the contributers who constantly suggest ... what you have suggested..
As ...my bosom pal...Vito... has said ad nauseam...
Fugggetttttttttttabbboootit..
We dinna hae da Gelt!
Kojo.
yer pal...who thinks ye hiv a fine mind... but, PLEASE LOSE.. dat particular Platitude.
Nakamura will get the goals for sure and he scores a good few from open play as well.
Sno straight red card
Evander's just been sent off in the Olympics game - straight red for a clumsy challenge.
bhoy sean
What is that based on ?
New name not a new poster brain like a sieve forgot password.
Just a thought in passing about our midfield.
Brown
Hartley
Sno
Donati
Robson
Mcgeady
Nakamura
Koki
Cadiss
Riordan
Graveson
Mccourt
Crosas ?
An abundance indeed do you think rfc could do with a loan or two?.
Evander's sending off is on the back of a good game from him I thought. Shame - stupid challenge
Bull In a China shop springs to mind
AL
Morning all
There was some mention of DD and how good he is for the club. I agree with this. He is one very astute businessman who does not play to loose. Has he ever lost money on his investments?
A good businessman knows a good proposition when he sees it and knows when to stay well away. Dermot is a very good businessman:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2008/0804/1217628484759.html
Hail Hail
He scored 7 goals last season despite only playing 34 games and scored 11 the previous season. He has shown that if he can stay fit he is capable of scoring at least 10 goals a season. The team is a lot more settled these days than it has been for a few seasons and for this reason I think it'll allow Nakamura to flourish next year and hopefully play his best football in the Hoops.
weeminger -
You're by no means overstating Mr Murray's plight.
Remember also that - due to the massive over-valuation of some of Rangers' assets (one big, boxy-lookin one in particular) - Rangers itself is the prize asset on the books of Murray International Holdings. Furthermore, this on-paper situation has been made far more extreme by the transferral of 48 million debt from Rangers to the holding company.
And when we then consider that MIH's bankers - HBOS - are themselves in the hole for about 3.7 billion, following a disastrous rights issue of their own - there can be no doubt that the squeeze is well-&-truly on.
Regarding the plight of Scotland’s premier businessman, now I am no accountant but from my laymen’s look at his last accounts MIH seems to have assets totalling circa £890m with a debt of £640m. Which seems OK. However if you consider Rangers is the largest of those assets and is valued at £147m in the books things don’t look so rosy. Rangers is vastly over valued. Another factor is I believe the bulk of the other assets is made up of commercial property. These accounts were pre-credit crunch and those values will have dropped. As I said I am no accountant but to keep the parents companies books balancing post Rangers sale Murray will either have to get investment from somewhere to clear some of the debt sitting in MIH OR convince someone to meet his grossly inflated valuation of Rangers. The potential buyer would then have to buy it lock, stock with their own money as I cannot see in the current financial situation any financial institution releasing funds for the purchase of an indebted business, with minimal assets, no merchandising for another 8 years, in a saturated market where their nearest competitor has really got their act together and is streets ahead business wise.
So the Murray moonbeam fed to loyal bears about “only selling to the right man” is just that, a moonbeam. For right man read Mad Man with a stupid amount of money to burn!
If no buyer is forthcoming then as HBOS are the ones Mr Murray owes the bulk of the money to, and considering the investment banks who underwrote their recent failed share issue to try and alleviate HBOS’ own cash flow difficulties will be starting to squeeze them for their £4bn back, there could be interesting times at Murray Mansions I feel. If the assets listed have taken a hoofing value wise and debt rises significantly things get quite complicated for Mr Murray and MIH, which in turn will effect Rangers PLC. If MIH sneezes, Rangers will get a very very bad cold!
Maybe Romanov should try and buy Rangers
bhoy sean,playing for Celtic my Granny should reach those targets no bother.I'm talking about a real contribution.If we have a weakness lets be honest about it and don't feel the need to defend it all ther time.
I've been thinking - in light of last summer's Madchester debacle - how much Rangers' early exit from the Champions League has enhanced the prestige and attractiveness of the tournament.
I feel that UEFA should make use of this fact in their publicity material, and I'm considering a letter to William Gaillard to suggest a new slogan for this year's competition.
What do you reckon to it?...
UEFA CHAMPIONS LEAGUE -
"THERE'S NO SHAME IN IT."
Re :The mythical waiting list.
I called Celtic park about my own season ticket ,as i cannot find last season's card.
During this conversation ,i asked if there are there any parts of the Stadium where season tickets are still available ,outwith the business section?
I was then asked what area do you want?
I replied .
What areas do you have them available in?
They replied "you can have them for almost any area in the stadium."
It seems very strange to me that ,that ,would be the case if there is a waiting list.
My dear,dear,dear,dear,dear, friend... Hoopla
In the matter of the trials and tribulations being faced by , HBOS... may I strengthen your pronouncement,... by one of my own...
In my recent forays into the Securities Market...
I have been eagerly accumulatin'... U.K. Banking Shares..and with Both Hands, and Feet..
Howevvvahhhhhhh...
The Shares of HBOS are very conspicuous .. by their total absence.. from amongst my Holdings...
Dat should Tellya Sumptin' .. Pal..
Mr. Murray...and, by the way.. I refuse to Entitle him to his Title.
is in deep financial difficulties...not NEW Noos.. but, nevahdaless ...
IT IS A FACT!
Kojo.
yer pal..who tells ye, candidly ... Dinna look,noo pal.. But, yer shrewd Financial Nous ... is Showin'!
Disco Stu, Celtic have rarely had prolific goal scoring midfielders in the last twenty years. Petrov did score plenty as did Craig Burley for a season and a few others but generally speaking no Celtic midfielders score more much more than 10-15 goals a season. This season we have the potential to have 3 midfielders hitting double figures and that's pretty impressive to me. Last season we had a problem with goals coming from midfield because Nakamura was out injured and neither Donati, Brown or Hartley were getting the goals. Once Robson joined and Nakamura got back to fitness the burden was lifted quite a bit from the strikers.
This would be a good example of them doing that
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZjWKOMzfTQ
Disco Stu
You mean your granny's a better player than Kenny Miller????
Errr.....
Mine too.
(Only kiddin' Kenny. This time last year you were great.)
RogueLeader -
Might even extend yr metaphor there...
Investment banks sneeze -
HBOS catches a cold -
Murray International Holdings contracts pneumonia -
Rangers kick it.
Oh how I would relish our local derbies with Glasgow's Other Team, Partick Thistle...
CarriedAwayTotallyCSC
Off topic.
Not sure if anyone has posted this but just sent it by one of my mates.
He said it was three bhoys in a kebab shop after the Rearrangers crashed out of Europe the other night (From the date of posting it might be true but funny all the same!)
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Vj6t80f7TQ8
/Bishop B
bhoy sean,quote " this season we have the potential to have 3 midfielders hitting double figures" and that impresses you.How can you be impressed about something that has not happened yet.WE need to sort that problem,believe me.
**breaking news**
"Signing alleviates Euro pain"
Sir David Murray has acted ahead of the opening to the SPL season and in spite of their European exit earlier this week by signing top Bundesliga 3 striker Heinz Schadenfreude from FC Gottinhimmel. In the swap deal, which will see Kris Boyd and Daniel Cousin become German club players, the Gottinhimmel coach, Walter Doppelganger, explained his disappointment at losing German football's rising star, "I am disappointed. Heinz's 57 goals in all competitions (including the winning goal in the Oktoberfest 7 aside strasse fussball tournament) sustained us throughout the season. I am hoping Kris and Daniel can fill their boots when they arrive here." Not for the first time, it seems that Sir David's private jet played a part in the deal, with Schadenfreude impressed with Sir David's 'green' credentials - "His jet is powered by grape juice sourced in the finest vineyards of France. He also insists on continuing to use players who are past their sell by date or who would otherwise find themselves dumped in the scrapheap. I am looking forward to teaming up with Kenny Miller."
Heinz Schadenfreude is 39 and his former clubs include FC Viennese Whirls, Berlin Mannschafters, Stenhousemuir and FC Dusseldorf Dandies.
Larry.bhoy - Agree it is not good team business but Murray's priority now is spiraling debt.
Basa Update
http://www.setanta.com/en/Sport/News/Football/2008/08/05/Ligue-1-transfer-news/?facets/football/sport-space/great-britain-locale/
http://soccerlens.com/transfer-rumors-6-august-08-zenit-raise-arshavin-asking-price-tottenhams-ashton-bid-rejected-liverpool-back-in-for-riera-and-more/9057/
http://www.lemans.maville.com/Football-Le-Mans-ok-pour-transferer-Basa-au-Celtic/re/actudet/actu_spo-681329------_actu.html
http://news.maxifoot.com/info-082584_80806/football.php
some I understand - some i do not. All less than 24 hours old.
My dear,dear,dear,dear,dear,dear,dear,friend.. Tiny Tim.
Ease off,my dear friend..
You, I... and a Myriad of others... are on the Side of oor Beloved Celtic..
If.... as you have pointed out... Celtic are indulging in what could be described,kindly... as... a Half o' a Quarter o' a Half.. TRUTH...
Then....Let it Lay, Pal... Leave Unwell ... ALAIN!
Whit doth is Profit us... tae Expose tae Awe an no Sae Sundry.. The Celtic P.R. Machine's..
Teeny Tiny .. PECCADILLO?
The answer tae dat question is GLARIN'...
So...
Wid it no be da Wiser Course...
Tae IGNORE... Celtic's Small Bending o' the Truth?
I my opinion...
WE SHOULD, INDEEDLY.. IGNORE IT.
FUR EFTER ALL..
Their Fractional Lie...
Canny HOIT... and It Micht, in Fact...
Very Well, Help!
Kojo.
yer pal... who advises tae remember, ...
Dat..
Whatevah Happens at Celtic Park... STAYS, AT CELTIC PARK!
Maks guid sense.. Tae Me!
Kojo -
To utilise the terminology of your adopted country - "Dang Tootin".
HBOS ?
Wouldnae touch them with a bargepole.
MIH ???
Wouldnae touch them wi' someone else's bargepole.
I'm led to believe (in the latter connection) that a certain Mr Souter may have an interesting due diligence report in his possession - wouldn't you give a couple of quid to have a wee shuftie at that one.....
Bryce, I think transfer spend is a gamble all the time. The issue is more complex than just budget, which we can expire on the wrong players, for example.
thebhoyfazza, Euro prize, or appearance, money, should be on merit, not the value of your domestic TV market. Platini did mention doing something on this.
DownForSam, from what I hear in the media, the player was in the US until yesterday, so it will take a few days, but things are moving.
Uncle Benjy, thanks. I’ll not do the same for Rangers but I will compare and contrast the finances soon.
Hoopythehuddlehound, thanks, I’ll get onto it.
Kojo, hope the jiggin’ was enjoyable.
PF ayr, thanks pal. We have to cover both options; Rangers will eventually get it right and we need to be ‘ready’.
Freddiebhoy, 2:!4, you could well be right.
Hoopla, cheers.
Jinkybhoy, thanks.
.
tinytim on August 7, 2008 3:00 PM ....
tinytim....Why Keep going on Re; 3 Guy's that have decided they don't need Celtic....
People die.... people are born.... people move on..... people move away..... people get married..... people get sacked..... people 'see the light'....
But New People Come through....That's Life....
Tinytim in a few year Me And You will Move on or Not be Here....
o1bhoy
lubo 1977,
Me and your dad. I have long suspected that part of their funding comes under the "unaccountable" bracket.
I seem to recall a couple of season's ago, our favourite Spanish Ranger was in court on a relatively minor charge.
His income was stated as something like £1000 or £4000 a week.
I couldn't believe that he was on such a low wage. I reckoned that he must have been on huge "expenses".
paul67 @ 1.01pm
Don't know full extent of anyone waiting on season tickets for their offspring but if it helps to clear up anything my son and three of his pals (all 15 years old) received their season tickets (£172.00 inc Rankers games) a couple of weeks ago and used them last night for the man city game. I would imagine if anyone does not have their cheap? tickets by now it is unlikely they will get them as i imagine they would have them by now.
C'mon the Hoops
Dobbo -
Relying on my rusty Gallic - the two french articles say pretty much one thing - the Basa is hummin & hawin and needs to get his act together.
Le Mans have reportedly agreed terms with both PSG and Celtic - 7 million Euros being the (unconfirmed) sum.
It's down to Marko...
paul67 @ 1.01pm
Don't know full extent of anyone waiting on season tickets for their offspring but if it helps to clear up anything my son and three of his pals (all 15 years old) received their season tickets (£172.00 inc Rankers games) a couple of weeks ago and used them last night for the man city game. I would imagine if anyone does not have their cheap? tickets by now it is unlikely they will get them as i imagine they would have them by now.
C'mon the Hoops
Hoopla
That wa roughly my understanding - which Zybzek said yesterday. With regard to the PSG move i think that is a no go - he wants to leave France as he feels he pays too much Tax! That is the club he turned down (about a month ago) which was sized on by the Mail and a quote turned into Celtic (the infamous Celtic in brackets quote).
I recon he wants to see if Hamberg and Spartak are interested - then he will decide.
I must admit i hope he signs, seems a quality player.
malceye ( 3:18 PM ) -
Quality - had me chuckling here...
Right Bhoys - a wee question for you. I phoned up the ticket office yesterday and there were still season tickets available (YAS!) - anyway the wee wuman reserves me the seat and gives me a client code number and says that if im payin by direct debit i need to fill in a mandate and hand it into the ticket office. But, i probably wont recieve any mail before going to work tomorrow - so do yous think I can just turn up at the ticket office and confirm the details there, or will I need to wait on this form comin in and so probably miss Sunday's game?
Dobo -
Yeah, the PSG offer has been on the table for ages now.
I concur with yr assessment - he is using the Rule of Three - holding out for another offer before he decides...
Right - when are we gonna get some New players in? C'mon Hurry Up it all starts again on Sunday. A don’t care who they are, what their position is or how much they cost - as long as they're New. Out with the old - in with the New - a want 11 new faces on Sunday, don’t care who wins the game - couldni care less - the important thing is we start with a load of new guys that nobody recognises - an they’ve goat to be New!
Dobbo -
Apologies for the missed "b".
- Hopla
Basa does look like a good player. I dont like it, though, when potential targets dither too long on the decision to play for us or not. We're kind of a big deal, you know!
curly on August 7, 2008 12:54 PM
Re the waiting list for season tickets -
Curly, I'm with you on this. My understanding is that the 'waiting list' comprises of people with special needs, i.e. parents/sons, to be with their pals, etc. I too know of people who have simply turned up and bought tickets.
On another point re. McGeady. Just as the season ended I watched him play a friendly for Ireland and I noticed how often he looked up and made a pass and later I heard the new manager say "I want him to be more aware of where his teamates are and to release them". In our own friendlies I've been aware of him doing that very thing and if that is the case we can look fwd to an even more devastating season from him.
At the game last night I came across an interesting fact - when Man City won their first title in 1937? they did so by scoring the most goals in that season. The following season they did exactly the same (scored the most goals)but were relegated! I believe they are the only Premiership team to have been relegated the year after being Champions.
Apart from Caddis being MOM last night I was very impressed by Millar. He showed composure, awareness, toughness and directness. Reminded me of Liam Millar.
hoopla
The issue I have is that, according to Paul67, the Tamas deal was pulled due to another target becoming available. To me this suggests either a new player, or the SSM being supremely confident about sealing the deal.
If the million u.a. s' d' is well put; agreement with Celtic Glasgow for the transfer of Marko Based, the player, here with l' image, reserve always its answer. : Ouest-France files. Radio operator million u.a. 72. Marco Basa could leave and the club always thinks of a new medium. Next public drive, Thursday. All l' actu of the club in our special folder! Mans ok to transfer Based in Celtic. Marko Based, the central defender of Mans, could be transferred to Celtic Glasgow (Scotland). The two clubs put d' agreement on the transfer but the player n' did not sign yet. “It is in the train d' to think of it”, one indicates side of the Sarthe-native club. A preceding agreement with the PSG had already been concluded, but Marko Basa n' continuation had not given. According to l' Equip, the amount of the transfer would exceed the 7 d' million; euros, a sum which n' was not confirmed by the club. A beautiful kitty for the million u.a. With the probable departure of Marko Based and those already carried out (Romaric, Sessegnon), the million u.a. is found with a pretty kitty. A capital which will be already used “to preserve our best players”, specifies the club, such as for example Ibrahima Camara or Gervinho. “To make come from the good players like the two Norwegians Stromstad and Helstad, that costs l' money”. Still one or two arrivals. The million u.a. continues to seek new players. In particular the rare pearl which will make it possible to replace Daisuke Matsui, party in Saint-Etienne, the station of left medium. Not yet of name but a certainty: “That will be in the logic of the club to reveal young talents. One takes our time”. Sun lotion. Fredrik Stromstad, the small Norwegian medium ground just arrived at the million u.a., took obviously pleasure with l' drive yesterday. Only one problem however at the end of the meeting for the light-haired boy: sunstrokes over the tasks of redness on the arms… Next drive in public, Thursday. Yesterday morning, forty spectators were present at Pincenardière to attend l' training of the pros. It will not be possible aujourd' today: the players s' will involve behind closed doors of 17:00 to 19:00 Thursday, l' drive (10 H with 12:00) should be to him public. A drive with not louper for those which would like to approach last once the players of the million u.a. before the match of Saturday, l' drive of Friday being held behind closed doors. Ouest-France
One for the finance gurus
if MIH were to go into Administration would Rangers automatically be in Administration too?
How many points would they get docked for that and could Dundee Utd catch them?
VertWolf
Personally I loved the Hugh MacDonald double pager, I always think he is the 'best' of the rest working in Scotland after Graeme Spiers.
What I liked best was that he covered ALL aspects of the club, from fans, players, management to board.
I guess knowing that he is more Celtic minded as I was reading it gave me a different slant on the article, but I couldn't help, but imagine him having a wee laugh to himself over his laptop, as he rattled out his perspective.
Bhoy Molloy
You really are 'all or nothing', Celtic will have to earn the right to play against most teams this season before we even contemplate winning leagues.
Surely our Artmedia season has taught us nothing if not that !
Rejects in twin blast at O** F***
Dreadful journalism in the Evening Times: the story couples the collapse of the Tamas deal (clubs couldn't agree a fee, it says) with the Shittu story where they agreed a deal and then reneged on it. And then Smith (the Artist Formerly Known As Walter) refuses to retun his phone calls.
Yes, we're as bad as each other, honest!
Paul, Once we are debt free do you think we'll complete the new advertising hoardings to extend all the way around celtic park?!
Wouldnt it be nice to unveil a couple of good signings to the crowd just before the unfurling of the flag.
Sorry about this: it's the editor in me.
The importance of season ticket sales to Celtic cannot be underestimated.
I should hope it can!
What it can't be is OVERestimated.
It's like this -
'Look at that big thing! What is it?'
'It's the importance of season ticket sales!'
'It's enormous! It must be a mile high!'
'No, not a mile: you overestimate it!'
'No I don't - Something that big CANNOT be overestimated!'
I do this for a living you know.
Dobbo -
Aye, and Peter L would already have had to bust his noggin over the Tamas deal, a real heid-nipper.
That gives me confidence that we have good news coming...
Oh, I forgot to add
:-)
Deliasmith
An alternative edit that perhaps better fits the flow of the article would be
The importance of season ticket sales to Celtic should not be underestimated.
:-)
VertWolf
31003, thanks.
VertWolf, 4:04, I can think of no scenarios under which the parent company would need protection from creditors but the subsidiary would not.
dziekanowskis_dazzlers, will need to save up for that one! :-)
deliasmith, ha! Well spotted. Corrected.
Delia,
I do this every time I take a leak :-)
Sir Paul
Mabel, jist arrived..she hid jist drapped the dug aff at McCarran..
He told her..
Dat he expected a late smash and grab, by Pierre.
And as Vito said...
It is up tae Basa. His decision.
A left back is noo the prime Target.. nae idea who it is..but he still hankers after the Mexican, who is no a Mexican..but he disnae know who we wull get.
I am still stickin' tae ma ain thochts...
Celtic dae not need... anither NEw C.B.
In ma opinion... tae acquire wan...
Jist disnae mak any sense.
A Left Back?
Soitenly.
But dat wid dae me, fine..
We dinnae need a noo Mid-Fielder... we could open a stall at da Barras.. we ur over.. bloomingin', Over Flowin'... wi' Mid-Fielders!
We dinna need anither Striker,eether..
Oor Larder is at the present time... Fully Stocked.
In Jan.. We may discover that we
MAY need tae Re-Provision..but, that is anither story.
Kojo
cheers paul, i feared that would be your answer!! :-)
On a side note guess the sole BBC pundit to favour the manky mob to win the SPL title this coming season from the following:
* Pat Nevin
* Murdo McLeod
* Chick young
* Billy Dodds
* Craig Patterless...sorry Paterson
you can find the answer here!
DD
Kojo,
We need a centre half big time!! I would stick my footballing reputation on it!! Celtic need a quality centre half and left back min this season. They already secured Crosas which in my view could be an excellent piece of business. If they could get another striker as competition with Georgis then that would be good.
Agree about Jan!! I actually think this could be a good season for him. Looks like the Jan that was at PSV so far. One chance in the pokey. I happen to think that Super Mac looks like he has slacked a wee bit. That fire in his belly when he first came to prove himself lacking a bit from what i have seen so far this pre season. I hope he hasn't got it in his mind that his place is guranteed.
Kojo,
fair enough about your opinion on the season ticket waiting list fiasco, but IMO the inefficiency of the club to deal with people who have registered on the waiting list (remember some have paid a deposit to be put to the top of the list) and not been dealt with is a sad reflection on how the club are doing business in this area. whats the point of having people register if they are not going to deal with the list at all by the looks of it.
Paul
Why have the big clubs in small counties not protested more about the current set up? Once great teams like Anderlecht have almost disappeared as a force due to the National Leagues only model
How good would it be to have names like that visit Parkhead for euro league games every week? And the combined TV audience would allow the league to challenge the dominance of the EPL.
Think about it
10/08/2010 Euro League PSV 12:30 H
17/08/2010 Euro League Anderlecht 14:00 A
23/08/2010 Euro League Porto 15:00 H
31/08/2010 Euro League Rangers 12:30 H
13/09/2010 Euro League Ajax 15:00 A
20/09/2010 Euro League Club Brugge 15:00 A
etc.....
dziekanowskis_dazzlers -
had to laugh.
Dodds says "Celtic have to start as favourites" - and then proceeds to tip... Rangers!
Elementary logic seems to evade him at every turn, like a rabbit bamboozling a fat dug.
Just had another wee thought about the Rangers situation (and excuse me is this has been mentioned already).
Let's assume that it was always the intention to sell Cuellar and Hemdani (I can see no other reason for not playing the latter). Before the Big Cup exit they were in a position to say to any club "we don't NEED to sell Cuellar and we want £6M".
Now any interested parties are able to sit until the last few days then phone up and say "Cuellar £4M (or less) take it or leave it".
The figures might be out, but you get the jist.
My dear,dear,dear,dear,dear, friend... canamalar.
You know, of course, that what I was alluding to, in my previous posting... was in Exclusivity... to anything other than...
The Purported Untruth, that was purposely being circulated regarding the present Number of Season tickets that were available, on demand.
The complaint that you have now mooted... is entirely outwith the subject to which I was referring.
I agree that the Celtic Ticket Office, if what you say is true, has dropped the ball in this one.
Therefore, you are quite within your rights to voice your objections.
In that I am in full agreement with your good self.
Fire Away.. by all means..
I abhor, slackness of duty. I have no time for poor Customer Service.
Poor Customer Service, can and does ...
Toll the Death Knell to many a Corporation
It is one of the Paramount Pillars that can make..or break an Enterprise.
Kojo.
yer pal...who ayeways has time fur my pals..like you.
Anyone else hoping for big things from Darren O'Dea this season? His performances at the end of the 06-07 season were superb but i think he was injured for quite a bit of last year. He's the most naturally talented defender at the club - although Caddis looks like he could be just as good. McManus is a really honest, hardworking player but he needs a big presence beside him in central defence - and Gary Effin Caldwell is not that man. He's nice enough - and I know the statistics say we were the best defence last season - but when he makes mistakes they're always HUGE - like the 3-2 Barca game and 3-0 Benfica.
Also is Strachan just trying to humiliate Riordan - i thought he should have been given a chance but havin said those things in the paper bout WGS he's gotta go. Who are we kiddin if we think we're gonna get £1m for him - hes not played 1st team football in 2years - 3 if we keep him to the end of this season. If someone makes a £400k bid id say we take it, as he goes for free come January.
Quarter Final,
Why did you let them into your league?? Surely a better quality of opponent would be welcomed to Celtic Park?
My dear,dear,dear,dear,dear, friend .....WGS.
If you are so keen on Celtic acquiring a Noo Center Back...
Then I would be interested, in knowing...
Should your wish be granted,
What kind of Formation would Celtic then, adopt?
And.. on the strange circumstance..
that Celtic would retain the status quo , regarding their Formation...
Which then... of the Present Celtic Center Backs..in situ...
Would be for .. Da Chop?
Kojo.
yer pal... who likes yer craic..keep it comin'
WGS
I agree completely about about our defence. Risk Caldwell and McManus again all season at our peril.
Caldwell had a very average season but was redeemed by a strong finish, (as did most of the team).
McManus is a bit rash at times and his decision making can be erratic.
As long as we strengthen and the players settle we should be fine.
We have not yet strenghened last seasons team. I don't think we woulod be stupid enough to gamble that Rangers are completely rubbish.
Thet have their best defender and midfielder to add, so they won't roll over and let us tickle their bellies just yet.
Kojo, a midseason re-positioning is an astute observation.
Quarter Final, it would be an exciting prospect and I cannot tell you why it has not been pursued more vigorously.
With Mr Trainer upping his stake in Celtic, it would be interesting to know who our major shareholders are now, and how many shares they hold. It should also be easy to find out.
As for Rangers Football Club Ltd, here is how their ownership is described in their latest accounts:
"The Directors who held office at 30 June, 2007, are listed below. They had the following interests in the ordinary shares of the Company:
Sir David E. Murray (Chairman) 99,801,034
J. F. McClelland CBE (Vice Chairman) 76,000
M. Bain 2,000
D. C. McIntyre
J. Greig MBE 5,000
A. J. Johnston 10,020
D. C. King
J. D. G. Wilson 11,266
Sir David E. Murray has an interest of 9,880,190 ordinary shares of 10p in the share capital of Murray International Holdings Limited ("MIH"), representing 66.9% of MIH's issued share capital. Accordingly, Sir David E. Murray is deemed to have an interest in the 62,060,479 ordinary shares of the Company held by Murray MHL Limited, a subsidiary of MIH.
Sir David E. Murray has an interest of 11,305,137 ordinary shares of 10p in the share capital of Murray Sports Limited ("MSL"), representing 57.1% of MSL's issued share capital. Accordingly, Sir David E. Murray is deemed to have an interest in the 37,448,489 ordinary shares of the Company held by RFC Investment Holdings Limited, a subsidiary of MSL.
These interests are included in the table above with respect to Sir David E. Murray.
J. D. G. Wilson has an interest of 135,242 ordinary shares of 10p in the share capital of MIH.
Other Directors who have an interest in the share capital of MSL are J. D. G. Wilson, 62,500 ordinary shares, A. J. Johnston (76,616) and, as an authorised representative of Metlika Trading Ltd, a BVI company, D. C. King, 3,064,627 ordinary shares.
The Directors consider that the ultimate holding company is Murray International Holdings Ltd.
As Sir David E. Murray has a controlling interest in the share capital of the ultimate holding company, he is considered to be the ultimate controlling related party."
WELL, HOPE THAT CLEARS THINGS UP!!!
More juicy bits to follow after I get the slow train home and scoff my dinner. Toodlepip!
.
Mo' Money Mo' Problems....
o1.b.i.g.
Kojo,
I know exactly what your point was, I was only saying that to ignore that point was then by extention to ignore the their shortcomings, We have recently replaced the ticket office manager if my memory serves me correctly, and the new ond does not seem to have improved the service at all.
For me bad press is the only way to get them to get the finger oot, innit.
canamalar who likes.
An aside and question to paul67, why is the left back cover/first choice not being addressed with more urgency, its absolutely shocking the inaction on this issue. Is the list so short, supposedly we have a list for all positions, surely the list for left back should be the longest and the first priority, we should have at least cover in place by now with the first choice being a higher prioirity than either the centre half or the midfield.
You'll remember me flapping a couple of weeks after TB thursday, at the time I knew I was being a bit silly, but I'm begining to think I was right to be panicing, its looking like we will be repeating last years mistakes.
to true tim @ 12 21
i will have two spare season tickets with me when we travel over for the game sunday if you are still interested .
SouthLondonTim
The SPL winners for 2008/09 are guaranteed automatic entry to the Champions League Group Stage courtesy of Scotland's 10th spot in the European coefficient ratings based on 2007/08. The top 12 clubs will gain entry, we are slightly ahead of Ukraine and Turkey in 11th and 12th places respectively. However, the new format means that path to the lucrative group stage for the SPL runners up in 2008/09 will be fraught with difficulty. Among the clubs chasing the 10 places up for grabs(and the £10m minimum that goes with them) via the qualifiers will be: the 4th placed teams in England, Spain, Italy, France and Germany; the 3rd placed in Russia; the runners up in Holland, Portugal, Romania, Ukraine and Turkey; and both the winners and runners up in the Belgian, Greek and Czech leagues. That's 17 quality sides for starters! It's therefore crucial that we pull out all the stops to retain our title, as, based on their current parlous state, R*****s would be hard pushed to come through this minefield...resulting in an even greater financial chasm between us.
Paul67, great article. Thought-provoking as ever.
Hoopla: "like a rabbit bamboozling a fat dug"
What an excellent analogy for McGeady's performance in the first old firm game of this season! Answers on a postcard for which particular fat dug he will be bamboozling!!
And back to the comedy show on Tuesday night......
Walter Smith and the Rangers team have turned to Max Mosley for counselling as they heard he got compensation for dressing up like a hun and getting spanked in Europe!
Craiginho
I'mhereallweek CSC
My dear,dear,friend... Fergie67
... In defense of Wan o'Ma Fair- Haired Bhoys..
Namely .
Gary Caldwell..
I beg to differ in your condemnation o' the estimable, Gary.
Your reasons for your disparagement of this young man...
ARE ALL .. YESTERDAY'S NEWS!
I always endeavour to deal in the PRESENT...not in, The PAST.
In my opinion..
Gary is PRESENTLY a very Valuable Asset to the club.
And how did he reach this entitlement of praise..?
By the Simple Act ...
Of Making Adjustments, and also by That Commendable Act .. which is known to the cognoscenti, as
IMPROVING , HIS PERFORMANCE.
I believe, you should reconsider your methods, in the Manner in which you use, in arrivin' at, your own personal opinion.
The Idea of Basing One's Opinion of a Player.... On His PAST PERFORMANCE/PERFORMANCES.... JIST DISNAE MAKE OANY SENSE!
Kojo.
yer pal... who likes ye.
Kojo...ma pal...
Caldo is a nice guy, as i said before
and having read your post
I'll gie 'im anuther chance
and i agree he got better near the end of last season
but still...I worry
Hi All,
I've been reading through MIH's last reported accounts in the last few days, and I'm no accountant but......
These figures were reported last september and cover the period from Jan 06 - Jan 07, so we will have to wait a few more weeks for 2007's full update, and will have to speculate for 2008.
The company appears imbalanced with the majority of income coming from metals but the overwhelming majority of debt and assets are associated with property.
The main income for MIH is still steel, it accounted for 268 million, compared to 68 million for property, football 44 million and others 57 million. MIH has sold Murray International Metals but still has Murray Metals, and it's a good, profitable business.
MIH has 621 million pounds of property, of which the property group has 556 million, so we can probably conclude that Ibrox and other MIH buildings are worth 65 million pounds.
MIH's total debt is a staggering 643 million (though there are several figures for that), and is a high percentage of it's total assets of 853 million. The report states a debt to asset ratio of 69%, but any numbers I saw indicated that this was higher.
HBOS owns 11% of MIH.
So, what can we conclude?
Well I would imagine the metal business would still be doing very well, and the group would benefit massively in revenue from this. Income from property and football may fall but it won't be too bad relative to the increase from metal. So I think their income would be ok.
However the debt to asset ratio will only get higher, and it is this that will cause consternation. It is in 2 years or so that MIH has to pay back 527 million pounds of it's borrowings. Remember these are almost exclusively borrowings on commercial property purchased at the height of the market. Can the income from the metals division cover renegotiating these loans? It's for sure that it will not be possible to convert the property assets into enough cash to cover the debts.
Interesting days ahead.....
patnmick
.
Wednesday, 16 April 2008....09:11pm....BK....(Before Kaunas)....
Clydesdale Bank Premier League
Celtic 1-1....
(HT 1-0) Rangers....Nakamura 20 Min....Novo 55 Min....
4 Minutes To Save The League....Tic Talk....Tic Talk....Tic Talk....
o1timbaland
Hoopla,
"like a rabbit bamboozling a fat dug"....excellent!
RE: Billy Dodds....I just shook my head in disbelief! Why is he employed by the BBC?! What can i learn about football from him? What value does he add?! Stuart Lovell...now there is someone who usually speaks a lot of sense as does BBJ! They are probably the only two in the whole of the media that cover Scottish football that offer me something...funnily enough they both played the game, have some form of intelligence and are objective/unbiased! why are journos and unintelligent/biased former players used to give opinions?!! anyway rant over!
DD
CQN has long been my first port of call for news on Celtic.
Paul’s latest article would/could never have been written by any of the lazy journalists out there who are content to feed the masses with padded out guff based around a couple of quotes from players or managers. Thanks Paul for keeping us informed.
The standard of debate on CQN continues to be impressive but might I raise a small point which often bothers me. It would be perfect if some contributors could correctly spell the surname of one of our greatest ever footballers. There’s no “e” in Dalglish! I’ve never seen references to Henrick Larson or Jimmy Johnston so I’m not sure why some people struggle with the name of my first Celtic hero! :-)
I look forward to Strachan winning 9 in a row with a back 4 of
Caddis
Cuthbert
O Dea
Conroy
Honestly what a load of old fawning tosh this site can become.
At least Madmitch spots the agenda.
Some of you would say great article if he said that Celtic were correct in doubling season ticket prices and charging extra for using the passageways. Laptop loyal seems to be an apt description that could be used to describe more than just the written media.
Here we have the ultimate revisionism.
Going back a few years - we need to reduce debt, we are perilous (like Leeds), jam tomorrow.
Then - we have reduced debt but its still too high - look what happenned to Leeds., jam tomorrow, £7M net spend on players every year is reasonable etc etc.
The - debt is nearly zero - but we need to remove it, jam tomorrow, we need to asset manage and balance the books.
And now ladies and gentlemen - having swallowed all this tripe you are told - Never mind the debt we need to save - its a dangerous world - look at Leeds, fantastically the message is....
You'll get your jam tomorrow.
Its not enough to clear debt now - we must save - and of course how much do you save? Well according to Paul its £30M!! Is that enough or if we ever get to £30M will it become £50M?
This really is Pythonesque this stuff.
So let me get this right - we pay our season ticket to watch rubbish football so that Celtic can save up? What are we saving up for - what is the purpose of the club? I thought it was to have a successful football team. Will we change our mission statement to - Celtic will save up lots of money just in case.
I wonder if we would pay some dividends from such savings - because surely for a PLC saving is not the best way of maximising shareholder value.
But you pay your season ticket and you get a warm wee glow from seeing that bank balance burgeon. Oh and keep buying the fishal merchandise cause we want to save more.
Sadly of course this isn't a wim of Paul's - the site is used to portray messages in a way that spins and spins unpallatable news into a good news story. Pravda doesnt have a look in.
Well a bit like Murray's new mega superdome - where at least the Ranger's support have learned to recognise spin when they see it - the support will see right through this nonesense.
Kojo - ring the bells - we have cleared the debt - dance in the street!!
Paul also says (brilliant this) - when we come to have new owners we must have the money in the bank to "meet the challenge" and even to prevent new owners in the first place - mmmm - cash in the bank etc - it will attract new investors!!! What an utterly bizarre statement.
Also - the return of the waiting list - for interest I too phone CP and asked if I could get a season book - didn't seem to be a problem for me either. Where would you like it?
How very strange!!!!
Its been a very funny week - first Rangers and now this. Hilarious!!
My dear,dear,dear,dear,friend... Fergie1967
I did not arrive at my present view...on the proper method.. on how to form an opinion, without making mistakes in the past.
And in that statement.. I am covering the whole gamut of the art of forming one's own personal opinion.
It refers not only in judging a Performers Performance.. but, it also includes the manner in which I form my opinion on... All types of Discrete Subjects.
And what guided me onto this method,in which is firmly embedded in my Psyche?
Well...because ye are sich a nice, fellow... and hiv bin willin' tae pit up wi' ma remonstrations, sae gracefully...
Here is the quote...that made me dae a 180... frae ma previous..like many ithers, I must say... o' basing ,MA AIN OPINION, of a subject.. oan PAST PERFORMANCES...IN/OF.. THAT PARTICULAR SUBJECT...
Here is the tale...and the Quote...
That Formed my EPIPHANY...
Many years ago... the Admirable Lord Maynard Keynes, was being severely criticised and reprimanded by a Member of the Press..
"Last Summer, Sir.. your Opinion on How to Handle the PRESENT WORLD ECONOMIC DOWNTURN... was a far,far different one... than the one your are espousing at the PRESENT Time... I say, that you are Waffling... and Backing Down... does that mean that your opinions, sir..
Are not to be Trusted?"
"If the PRESENT Circumstances Change, then I change MY PRESENT OPINION, TO SUIT" quoth the Good Lord.
"What do you do, my good Man?" he added.
Now, ye know as much as Ah dae.
My advice...
Dae whit Ah did..
And emulate... Lord Keynes.
Kojo.
yer pal.. who likes tae like ye.
Kerrydale St reporting white smoke. Don;t know if its a wind up or not. Short version, someone at ross hall tonight, posibly another one on Saturday. Theres some article somewhere saying Crosas will have a medical before Sun (sat?) So if there's any substance to this wind up rumour, who is at Ross Hall tonight ?
Dont shoot me, I'm only repeating teasers from elsewhere to see if anyone knows anything .
Negativeanon,
I was with you all the way until "at least the Ranger's support have learned to recognise spin when they see it "
which is the biggest lot of manure I have read on CQN ever
What planet are you on that you honestly believe that drivel?
I don't always agree with Kojo but I think he's on the money with Gary Caldwell.
The problem Caldwell has with being accepted by the fans comes down to two things.
If we look back to last season he struggled through the first part of it, both at CB, and at times at right back. Obviously playing out of position isn't easy for most modern footballers so perhaps some slack should be afforded him in that respect.
The reason he doesn't get as much slack in my opinion is because he is Scottish and he didn't cost a lot of money.
For talking sake lets speculate.
Let's say we sign Basa for £5mill and he has a rough start to the season. However in the second half and down the home straight he starts to perform well and is one of the better players on the team. I'd reckon there would be a fair few comments stating thats the real Basa we're seeing now etc etc..
Yet we'd arrive at that conclusion without ever seeing Basa play before he arrived here.
Yet the mistrust still hangs around Gary Caldwell...
.
Saturday, 05 April 2008....4:43pm....BK....(Before Kaunas)....
Clydesdale Bank Premier League
Celtic 0-1 Motherwell ....(HT)0-1
Lappin 33
Bookings:
Porter 40
Smith 68
Sent off:
Malcolm 51....
"I Believe In Miracles"....
o1rare
NegativeAnon - Have the Celtic board ever done something you approve of?
ANNAOAN,
Okay fair point - was exaggerating to make a point.
I know many who havent been taken in mind (or so they tell me!!).
One thing that concerns me is that if TFOD sell CC I would have thought they would go back in for Mark Reynolds whom IMHO is an outstanding prospect.
I would have him before big Zander. He can play centre back or midfield and he is a big Celtic fan. But more importantly he has loads of ability. I know we can't have everyone but I think he would go on to be a Celtic legend.
Paul67 is he on the radar at all or am I wide of the Mark?
I think if he moved to Ran666ers we could possibly rue not having moved for him.
Philvisreturns
Not much - we have ever been weak in the boardroom.
Think they have actually done a good job in getting the best out of deals they have done when they actually do one!!
Take today - did you see the article about Celtic banning fans last night - need to get our priorities right eh!!
Caldwell for me was our most improved player in the second half of the season.
He did have a few scary moments in the first half (Barca etc) but i thought his defending was solid, his passes forward improved greatly and he did assist a good few of our goals over the season.
Big Mick doesnt seem to get the same grilling as Gary and i for one would be very happy to see another CB come in for them both to be challenged in there position.
Remember how Jan improved once he knew Sammy was breathing down his neck?? It works.
..
Neg....You Sound as If Yoooo Have been Paying TG....His wages....
Have Yooo....
o1bhoy
Negative Anon and Madmitch
Keep up the honesty.Not all on here are members of Pauls laptop loyal.
It always makes me laugh when the old Leeds chestnut is brought up in defense of our boards frugal ways.My reply is always name me the Celtic supporter who has advocated borrowing 100million on projected future earnings to sign players for our team.So far i have been unable to identify those fans.
2 straight years this site and Celtics board have boasted about significant profit.Yet we are still unwilling to criticise them for not reinvesting a decent percentage of those profits on the playing side where there are glaring deficiencies.
Evenin all.
Before anything else....
Negative Anon.... are you Brian Dempsey? There is a degree of restrained bitterness attached to many of your posts that speaks of someone who perceives himself to have been personally wronged, either by Paul himself or someone on the board.
Or are you just permanently grumpy?
Cheer up for the Champions.
Negativeanon,
aye and your no Kiddin !!!
You make excellent points which are always well made and I always look forward to your posts and alternative view point. I think its good that PAUL67 puts over the boards perspective. He´s Pinkeling in the wind as the germans would say if you compare how much the press is pro Murray. It doesn´t mean we are all swallowing it and it does give the chance for you to put across your alternative point of view. Both of which I enjoy.
The personality not politics undercurrent to both of your posts is so obvious that I find it a bit repetitive and that you hammer on about the propaganda element. Nowt wrong with that in my book.
I wish you can respect one another as we should instead of dragging personalities into it.
The ongoing debate and alternative stand point from both of you is admirable and enjoyable ... but lets keep the respect amongst one another. You shouldn´t let your frustrations boil over like that.
Jinky&hendersonCSC
NegativeAnon: I can see where you're coming from though it would be as fair to say that you are an unreasonable moaner as others are sycophants to the board.
I'm no financial expert and I can't claim to know what the best strategy is for Celtic in a business sense. I am absolutely clear that the sort of success we have had in the last few years, while remaining financially stable, represents a great achievement and one that I hope to see replicated in future.
I'm all for exciting signings but not just spending money so that people can turn up at the front car park and cheer because we've bought someone they've heard of. You might as well spend your money hiring a Ferrari by the hour.
As to the cash in the bank, suggestion, I admit that sounds like an excuse for not signing players. I don't have the expertise to comment on how it would affect takeover bids for our rivals (and hope that it's not really code for Dermot Desmond preparing to dispose of his shareholding).
I do think that Peter Lawwell has got off relatively lightly for his "Wow signings" remark of some time ago and I agree that Paul rarely, if ever, criticises Celtic operations.
However, that is his right and a blog such as this is, after all, entirely personal.
The dynamics are interesting when an online community develops. Ultimately, people start identifying with the community, developing online personae, relationships, hierarchies, etc. and starting to feel a sense of ownership of the community and its discourse. Inevitably, reactions become more extreme and invective enters the debate.
However, none of that changes the fact that the author of the blog is entitled to use it as subjectively as he wishes and the ensuing reactions may add colour and illustrate public opinion but do nothing to undermine the legitimacy of the posts.
NegativeAnon,
'Take today - did you see the article about Celtic banning fans last night - need to get our priorities right eh!!'
So your happy for Adult fans to abuse the system, buy a £50 child season ticket and use it all season?
WOZ - auld grumpy chops me.
01bhoy - we are all paying a fraction of those wages.
Philvisrturns - oh and the brought MON to the club - but apart from the good negotiations and MON....what have the board ever done for us?
Just another thought - we will need a big giant biscuit tin for all that cash.
NegAnon -
I'm used to your customary NegAnonitivity, and can't really complain, since it cunningly forms part of your name.
But mibbe you might read the article before wading in?
It seems clear to me that the potential "new owners" Paul is referring to would be the owners of Rangers, not Celtic.
Any statement can be Utterly Bizarre if you don't read it properly...
.
WizardofOz....
WOO....Brian Dempsey is Not NA....Never Will be....Never Has been....Don't throw Names Around....
o1bhoy
If it's the end of the world as we know it....
Why do I feel fine?
Craiginho
REM CSC
Anybody think we should be looking at buying Andriy Voronin off of Liverpool? I've always thought he's quite the player and was a bit disappointed when they bought him only to sit him in the stands. Unfortunately I think they'd want a rather outrageous fee for him.
Evening Paul.
Apologies,I have not read your article.
I have one question to ask of the person who will not speak to me again.
TINY TIM
Do you own shares in Celtic?
I do realise you have said you will not discuss anything with me when it comes to how we feel about Celtic and how we disagree on such.
A simple Yes or No will suffice.
If you choose not to answer,I can understand.
But it is important,for me to come back against your diatribe.
If you are half the man you claim to be.
You will do me the decency of an answer.
One Start Means More,
why do you always steal the words from my mouth ?
Why are you always so eloquent ?
Why do I picture you as Oscar Wilde ?
Doh!CSC
.
NegativeAnon on August 7, 2008 6:24 PM ....
TG....Fair Doos....
NA....Would Yooo Have Given Arthur & Aiden....A Pay Rise....????
o1bhoy
NegAnon.
welcome back.
Again
Negative Anon
Whats your point about banning fans.
These people lied to get cheap seats.
IMO there is no difference between them and people who lie to get government benefits.
Negative Anon
You're right about the Fan Ban. Let them away with it I say, or at least if they're incompetent enough to get caught, don't publicise it in case you put others off.
I think Tesco should adopt the same policy with shoplifters. Say nothing, do nothing. Especially when it comes to their fine wine section. That Feathered Dinosaur stuff by D'Arenberg is the biz, but a bit pricey.
Honestly, any valid points you do have are detracted from by cheap jibes like that. The guys are cheating, put a stop to it.
Bryce Curdy.
We would have beaten them
At the risk of being accused of spouting fawning tosh, I would just like to put on record that I trust the board to do what is right for Celtic. Whether it be in the short term or the long term, I believe they are acting in the best interests of our club.
I look forward to new additions at Celtic before the transfer window "slams shut" (copyright Lazy tabloid journos).
The actual amount they cost will matter not a jot to me, as long as they add quality to the players we already have.
I would also like to think that we will say bye-bye to more than a couple of the never-were's and underacheivers.
NegativeAnon,
Hitting many buttons for me. Wouldn't want 2 c us doing a Moonbeams but we do need that left back. Balancing act really - buy as good as you can, as much as you can, to achieve the best results you can BUT set a reasonable budget and don't throw money away - see, piece of cake, eh!
PS
I've been enjoying my jam today for a wee while now. Looking forward to the cream on it to come.
O1bhoy...
the Brian Dempsey thing was my attempt at flippancy/humour.
Maybe I shouldn't do it though....I got banned from posting on KDS for flippancy. Maybe I should just learn to bypass swear filters.
NegAnon
Please explain why any "club" should spend more than it brings in?
Why is it good practise?
What are the good examples you can offer of a well run club in Scotland and England?
Paul,I have now read your article.
Cash makes you nothing.
It is fool's gold.
Unless of course it is your own.!!!
And it costs you more to have it!!!
We are sitting pretty.
Very pretty.
I myself have no debt,many assets,but little resources(in comparison to many).
Would I be better to speculate in a falling market?
Build up some cheap debt?
Or sit tight with the cash.
Knowing it is earning nada.
.
WizardofOz....
No Worries WOO....
I Know Brians Family Well....Thats All....
o1bhoy
NegativeAnon
You make some valid points, but your underlying theme is that Paul and CQN are simply soapboxes for Celtic and the Board. If you look back at previous articles you will see criticisms of aspects of decision making and concerns about the developments taking place at the time. THat is not the case with the laptop loyal and their approach to criticism (or lack of it) on what happens over at Ibrox.
The article today sets out the case for the effective financial managementy of our culb over recent years, since it almost went out of business due to poor management by the previous regime. Paul also sets out the case for ensuring that we set a base for countering any future changes in the effectiveness of the management of our main rival by having a slod financial base on which to build and develop.
The reference to Leeds is, I believe, simply an argumment that ambition can sometimes be bad if the financial base is not there to sustain it.
If someone does an Abramovich on Rangers, presuming they were insane as well as rich, what should our approach be? Follow blindly into the financial abyss? Rangers tried to buy success. Remember the Tore Andre Flo signing and the promise to spend a tenner for every fiver we spent. THat is not a financial model, and I much prefer the apprach of our board.
Given the last 8 years, I think we can demonstrate a positive outcome to sound financial management. The more we pay interest on debt the less we have to fund progress. I for one am happy with the way we are being run and would not go back to the old days, or adopt the buy now pay later approach of our rivals.
Paul and CQN are much much more than a mouthpiece for Celtic and the Board, but on those occasions when his source is obviously from within the club I am more than grateful.
Negative Anon
On the subject of the child seat fiasco, PL must have been taking lessons from AD and the on-off stamp duty changes. Both are good ideas that have been badly handled.
Regarding the club it is definitely better to fill the stadium than too have the empty seats multiply. The baby boom of 63-65 are now on the slide so we need to get more children involved. However managerial competence becomes an issue as in don't make it general and don't downgrade existing tickets. I fear a few systems analysts could be getting the bullet over this.
These are only my thoughts as I don't know the details but we need to work at this. The sight of only 25K fans in CP last night was poor. I can't think of the last pre-season game that was a sell-out or the last pre-season that was a success. Chasing the whore's pound all over Europe hasn't worked to add to the recent disappointments in the US and Japan.
We now have 11 months so hopefully this issue along with others can be improved on.
I stick with my earlier idea that we should aim for one all star charity game to get the season started. Cheap tickets, no show tickets (like NQ's testamonial), specific sponsorship ... anything to get things started with a bang. Two second rank tournaments might go down well with the Thomas Cook CSC but they don't do anything for the brand.
Now onto our spending history 2005 onwards ...
Kano,
cash lodged in a high interest off shore account is not fools gold and not earning nada in my book.
Debt and interest payments on debt is tax deductible.
If we can earn more from interest and keep a level of local debt to ensure that we dont give too much to the tax man while avoiding paying heavy taxes on large profits.
I dont see what´s wrong with that strategy ...but I am hopeless with money .. I´m far too generous to myself ;-)
Hail Hail
Last and probably stupidest salvo of the Phoney Pre Season war.
Thanks to the intellect and a loan ofJohn Titor’s time travel machine, we are able to bring you an exclusive report from Friday’s Murray Press Conference before it happens.
And so it came to pass, in the 9th year of the G.O.D., the Messianic Masonic Grand Master of Moonbeams, wary of the unrest among the scribes and the Ursusgens of the Lower Kingdom beyond the Clyde, sent forth an edict summoning his minions to a gathering at his western HQ in the north of the city.
Notwithstanding that it was not yet the end of the silly signing season and the new potato crop was still in the fields as it was only the 100th day of May, certain sections of the population were restless, raging and dissatisfied not least due to club’s recent disastrous charabanc tour of the Baltic region. Disorder and disquiet was displayed openly even by some among his usually loyal scribes.
After lunching on crow, blue stilton and blueberries, the gathered assembly awaited Murray’s entrance with rapt attention and some trepidation. Among these was one, Graham Telum, sitting alone, eating a square sliced sausage his wife had made from a recipe posted on the underground publication Culinary Quick News. He was both feared for his sharp wit and shunned for his independence, especially after deriding his fellow fawning scribes as Murray Lapdogs, and refusing to reproduce exactly the proclamations and public enlightenment directives issued from the Master’s Chippendale Desk.
Flanked by his faithful servants, Smith and Bain, the Master strode to the podium, made from orange boxes, and claimed it as a first. Holding out his hands he silenced the room and addressed the assembly.
“I have a statement to read to you. Copies are available as handouts at the back of the room from Big Derek. Questions, and answers, are at the end of the document. We wrote the questions down for you, so you will not need to ask any here.” Pausing he fixed his steely stare upon the gathered assembly and lingered just a second longer as he caught the unblinking eye of Telum.
“We have been in conference and we will not be delegating responsibility for our recent failure to progress in the CL. It is not the Rangers way. “
“Walter was appointed to bring stability to the club and in this he has been extraordinarily successful, taking us to a UEFA final and returning the team to a more robust style of play, in the Rangers tradition. Certain non performing players who have passed their sell by date will be traded and replaced by younger, faster and fit for purpose signings to take us a step further in the SPL.”
“What we need to do now is to bring forward and lay out our plans to restore our establishment to the glory that is rightfully ours.”
“The plans we revealed earlier, were submitted for approval, but are still being held up by local committees who do not share our business or football goals, and who do not wish our football club success. These are those elected officials, who refused to provide finance and support our plans to ensure we at Rangers received a fair share of the grants available for the upcoming Commonwealth Games. Instead they directed finances to support our rivals, forcing us to finance our expansions privately.
Their day will certainly come.”
“They, and others cynics of no faith, have tried to test our mettle, by casting doubt on our plans and questioning our resolve to complete and fulfill our ambitions for Ibrox Park, the people of Govan and the good of Glasgow and Scotland. So I stand before you today to reveal our financing plans for the Murray Pleasuredome, which will invigorate the area and put Govan and Greater Glasgow in the forefront of tourist attractions.”
“The eco friendly development, inspired by the Eden Project, will provide a unique tourist magnet attracting millions of people to the immediate area and the stadium with its unique climate controlled atmosphere for all our home games. This will ensure we have no match postponements due to weather, and can avoid the fixture congestion which cost us a glorious unique quadruple last season, and by extension our entry into the CL.”
“I can exclusively reveal that for the last 6 months our mining subsidiary, Murray Intergalactic Mining Inc (MIMI) have been extracting a unique commodity discovered when we were asset stripping in North Lanarkshire. The proceeds from this will be used to finance our plans. We have also secured commitments from other well known sources such as the prominent DDT Investments, the investment arm of the Dutch Tulip Corporation, and the Darien Company of Central America, both well known for their historic investments. Many more companies from all around the world are in advanced negotiations to underwrite the project.
Development around the stadium will include a financial block anchored by a Commodities Exchange to trade in commodity futures such as Tulips, talented young players from Murray Park, Tunnocks Caramel Wafers, Lanark Tomatoes, Ayrshire potatoes and bridies. We will be attract the best young financial talent to Glasgow, by creating an international financial giant named Blue Moonbeam Derivatives, raising the profile of the Copland Road as a financial centre rivaling London New York and Chicago.
With dramatic aplomb the Master paused and then held up the source of his, Rangers and Scotland’s new found wealth.
“I present to you the fruits of our ceaseless efforts.
The commodity which will underwrite our investment and fund the growth of Govan.
We have, I can now reveal, discovered and mined a prolific vein of blue smarties.
Yes gentlemen, blue smarties.
We can now corner the market in this scarce commodity which will bring mining jobs to the scarred North Lanarkshire moss, which admittedly I razed to a wasteland, as well as financing our ambitious plans for football domination in Scotland, Britain, Europe, the world and beyond.”
Before he could conclude, the audience rose to their feet, burst into applause and then ran for the exits, grabbing the handouts from Derek, dialing their editors while racing for their cars. All except one.
Murray smiled at Smith and Bain and said, ‘I told you,” before leaving the room, leaving only Graham Telum scribbling the morning headline
Govan Goes Green
Flavius Josephus, well not really
Aw Naw.
I know,long term is good.
Can you imagine this being explained to the masses?
We have money,but the interest is far better in long term off shore accounts?
And Lee Naylor will suffice for now?
Remember how wrong you all were about Gary Caldwell.
See we were right
The bank is better!!!!
The last guy who said that was booed when he came out to raise the flag.
You are treading on thin ice there my friend.
Shareholder value is not best served by keeping cash in the bank. You either use the cash - invest and grow - or give it back to the shareholders. If you can get better value at the bank for your cash, than in your business, you're in the wrong job.
Paul has pointed out mind you that the club needn't have its (theoretical) war chest in cash - much could be in debt facility. Point is though, that I didn't invest in Celtic to earn interest at the bank.
I want INTEREST ON THE FOOTBALL FIELD!!!
We will report considerable profit for the year just finished - soemthing in the region of £6M, maybe £8M tops. This on top of last year's £15M (player sales). That's not to say we're the same value ahead in cash, but it is an absolute that the club will have +£20 Million more net assets than it did when Gordon took the job in 2005.
I took a look at the squad on the CFC website to get a handle on the players' value on the books. Pretty much, Hinkel and Brown are the top valued players at +£2M, with such as Donati, Robson, JVoH, and Samaras in for a million or so. So we have invested somewhat recently.
By and large though the rest are either pretty much entirely amortised - Naka, Boruc - or cost hee haw in the first place - Hartley, Caldwell, McDonald, Naylor etc - or are youth developed players who have no book value.
Point being (somewhere, please, make the point)
We will repeat the 2008 profit in 2009. Dropping £1M or less to move TG on is worthwhile if it allows us to bring in a direct replacment on the same or similar dough. Ditto Balde - give him £10K a week and let him go to Brum happy. We get £20K per week benefit. Riordan - yip, £500K from Burnley is half a million good reasons to get this non performing asset off the books.
We talk from time to time about Celtic's good asset management. Fact is, we have £20M more assets than 2 years ago, another £5-6M profit to come for 2009, a £30M deferred tax asset written off to zero 3 years ago, and a chunk of unused intangibles that cost us about £70K per week to service.
Can we have some asset management please?
Oh, and to hell with cash in the bank Paul.
Negative Anon,
You are as entitled to your view as anyone, and to disagree with Paul if that's what you think.
But please don't insult the rest of us by implying that we slavishly agree with anything Paul posts. There are some very intelligent posters on here and we are well able to make up our own minds.
.
It Sleeps....
o1pavorroti
I think that Traynor's suggestion that "Walter" needs to "stiffen the midfield" is inflammatory and uncalled for.
Gordon_J
Can you name some of the "some"?
Well chaps it looks like its over at last, the long summer of little in the way off new players to worship seems to be over. Sources believe a player is currently attending a medical in Glasgow at Ross Hall tonight.
PS Doesnt lokk as if it is Crosas.
Any help recieved.
ps sorry for the spelling excited to get in on for discussion. can anybody help with names: one suggested is Hoyte from Arsenal.
"Money is the bank is the most effective resource to combat all kinds of threats. When TV deals crash, when commercial partners don't renew contracts, when ticket or merchandising sales slump, when European income blips, or when the club face a resurgent domestic opponent, cash will be needed if Celtic are to respond quickly and effectively."
"We must never surrender our period of domination so easily; contingency resources must be accumulated when the opportunity exists."
Paul the feeling i get from your article is that if we are ahead of Rangers just now,why not stash some cash for a rainy day.
I believe that a settled team with a core of marquee players on strong contracts like the one that contained Henk, Sutton and Lennon is the best way to see off a potential Rangers revival.
Settled teams who complement and enhance each season are always hard to beat.
Trying to be just ahead is nonsensical,if we can strengthen all our budget should go towards that.
Money in the bank for some as yet unknown future event..... na.
.
Kanoe.....'Some'....Me....
o1bhoy
Kano,
for the record if we bought another LB naturally left sided that would be me happy. He doesn´t even have to be better than Naylor but that would be good if he was.
I dont buy the we urgently need mantra ... fawning tosh in my book. I´d rather give our bhoys their chance ..even if it does mean a lack of glory. How gutted would Miilar, O´Dea, Cuthbert, Caddis be after WGS commenst last night. I´m hope he´s telling the press and 1st team one thing and the bhoys another
BQ and the Bunnet were booed as it was perceived by the masses that they hadn´t supported their respective managers with money that they wanted.
I would rather that we banked the money so that we dont need to be associated with Carling Starlings and "belonging" to the other side with soon to be announced advertising on the players backsides than buying some mercenary badge kisser who might be better than what we have got. The money in the bank one day might restore the soul to our club rather than us becoming another preening street hustler.It´s a tragedy that this will never be considered.
Hail Hail
WizardofOz -
Absolutely.
I am, by nature, disinclined to trust moneymen, boards, and company owners (except when it's me of course)
However the present Celtic board have my trust and support in their running of the club - not because they are the board, but because they have earned that trust over a period of years. We have gone from being shockingly mismanaged for decades, to being a really well-run, forward-looking club. In stark contrast to our main rivals over the same 13-year period.
Admittedly, I have disagreed with certain appointments which have been made - one in particular - but the club is financially in excellent hands, as our consistent on-field success bears out.
Kano,
I would hate to make a list in case I inadvertantly mmissed someone off and insulted them!
You read postst he same as I do, I assume, so you can draw your own list up as easily as I could.
I see Bobo is pricing himself out of a move again. This just proves how much MON overpaid him in virtually the last think he did at Parkhead
Since then Bobo has been eating up the revenue from 8 season tickets each day.
That's 56 season tickets each week and 2912 per year.
That's about one twentieth of all season tickets sales go straight into Bobo's pockets (that can't be right - someone check my numbers I’ve based it on £28,000 per week as reported and a season ticket value of 500).
I've got to say all the emotion I had for the big man has turned from very positive to equally negative.
Get him to ..... France!
Hi Bhoys
I,m trying to contact a friend in Scotland who is with the Orange network and the network seems to be down all day?
Is there anyone with the orange network??
If so have they experienced problems with their mobile phone today??
Are they still experiencing problems?
Also has anyone phoned up the orange network to find out when the problem will be fixed??
I suppose we could always keep the money in the BNP bank or the ANZ or the two big yankee lenders who are being propped up until good ol George Dubbiya is sent back to Kennybunkport.
Are we allowed to mention that here?
Or will the the Zionist faction come out tae get us.
_Paul 67
I know everybody's going to hate me now, but I'm compelled to say that important things, SHOULD not be under estimated, CAN'T be overestimated, but to say they can't be underestimated is, I'm afraid, not really what you want to say.
Your article was superb. This is just a bugbear.
No need to worry everyone as my lady has given Crosas the thumbs up.
rossthekid
Hoyte is a right-back. Why would we want/need him?
Roccobhoy.
I think the same affliction has become the Scotsman comments section after the articles in the last couple of days.
Unexplanable he?
.
It's My Wife.... Live...."
o1nodout?
Roccobhoy. My youngest is with Orange and my oldest was trying to get her today without any joy. I have just tried her phone there and its working now. So it may be fixed.
roccobhoy,
What's the punchline?
In case any of you do go onto the Scotsman threads I am &larrsonfixestheradio
I´m very chummy with hunny over there as I used to guddle for fish and was good at it.
Dear auld fawners (and others who do not or refuse to recognise themselves in that category),
Please dont mistake my posts for personal attacks on Paul - but please take them as attacks on the board and its current strategy (or indeed non-strategy) of saving up.
As for the banning of fans - of course its wrong to cheat - but so is trying to fleece some extra out of all the other supporters via our sleazy arrangement with Rangers - do we get to ban the board for cheating?
Fan-A-Tic - we are portrayed as slavering spend junkies if we dare to want a signing!!
Hoopla - have re-read and think you need to read it again?
01bhoy - yes wage rises - makes sense to keep them .
Kano - was too good too miss this one - hilarious.
West wales celt - correct - but what is a reasonable spend - according to Paul its minus £30M
Kevtic - and where am I advocating this??? See Fan-a-tic point or just accept that we are all spend junkies.
Glassford03 - effective financial management or unambitious nonesense?
Madmitch - yes that spending history from 2005 - mmmm
Gordon - there are indeed - and all are entitled to opinion (and its Paul's ba') - but come on - our strategy is now to save up?
Really................
shanghaiHoops
I know its just what i am hearing regarding movement at ross hall will be in touch if anything comes up.
Macjay.
I was told that McDonald was a Celtic fan, and I've never seen anything to convince me otherwise.
George Peat coming on Radio Scotland after turning down the 3 club appeal - tune in now !
Gordon J
He is a die hard Celtic fan both his parents are Irish
His phone must not be working because him and Orange have nothing in common :)
Greenlion 2
Thanks for that information however I still cant get through to him.
Negativeanon,
I´m all for our board charging the 5%
but not doing it in conjunction with them.
Q) why should we pay more to go see Hibs (fill in the SPL team) than say a (fill in an SPL team) St. Mirren fan?
Just because Rangers and Celtic are more successful than any other club is no reason to rip off Celtic and Rangers fans.
F?*( them I say ... F?&K every single last one of them.
Sorry Roccobhoy, I had a feeling there was a joke coming at the end of that one!
Aw Naw,I am all for spending what we receive.
The odd "long term" investment(Lennoxtown) can't go wrong.
I myself buy big for "discount".
But stashing the cash is fraught with danger.
One quick move and the cash is lost.
We have seen it in the last couple of years.
Would prefer our money to be gambled on players.
After all that is why we put it there.
Some are wildly succesful.
Some aren't.
But if you play the game correctly.
We can even convince some bent London club chairman that 10 million is enough for a semi-reasonable full back.
.
Neg Anon....
Plural is that Singular....
o1
Neg Anon has made 2 points consistently:-
1) That Dermot invested in Celtic to make a killing by getting us into the EPL or equivalent and then selling.
This need not be a bad thing if both Dermot and Celtic benefit commercially as it would be win:win. However, as EPL prospects have been dim for the past 2 years, and for the immediate future, what would prove to you now that this point is still valid? If DD sold Celtic by making us a cash rich option from which foreign non celtic-minded owners would squeeze value, then NA would, perhaps, have been right all along.
Now I am not aware of a clamour of potential buyers for Celtic nor do I think there's a lot of money to be made from an SPL club which has come close to maxing out its revenue streams. So, I have to ask what would disprove your point above? Would it be disproved if DD remained club owner in an SPL environment for a further 2 years? 5 years? He could never disprove it because I know what he's like??
2) The prudent budgeting in the transfer market is an exercise in managing expectations, aided by Paul 67 and the sheep that read CQN, as we never spend what we have available. Instead we keep deferring it to the next window where we spend last year's available budget thus leaving the interest earning profit to benefit the board and other fat cats.
There is some evidence for this scenario so far. We have not spent our available money and we spent in a panicked fashion last January on Hinkel and Samaras (loan). But, for the argument to be compelling, there would need to be some evidence that this board is milking away the money. Are they paying themselves above commercial rates? I thought the view was that PL could make bigger bucks by leaving Celtic now. Am I wrong? Are the board approving and paying huge dividends to make us a club ripe for raiding? I keep hearing that they are continually deferring pay outs. Am I wrong?
A hypothesis like Neg Anon's can only be evaluated as a scientific theory if you set out the conditions under which it can be disproved (Karl Popper). What are the circumstances which would prove you wrong, Neg Anon?
Ross county taking legal action ...me thinks?
Gordon J
Nae bother
I see the huns are urging Murray to "let the big money men in".
These magnates are gantin in the wings, just waiting to get, " a piece of the Rangers action".
Christ, maybe they are!
Kano,
or we can give away Shay Given
It´s a balancing act and not an easy one.
I´d rather see much more ploughed into the academy than off shore mercenary bank accounts.
Not that I´ll be on here tomorrow complaining if the nes tomorrow morning is that DD has pushed the boat out to sign Messi, Fabregas, Kaka and Ronaldo.
I would worry about Caddis and Aiden´s development however
Hail HAil
Big fight on the radio .. Peat getting a hard time !
o1bhoy -
Great Pavarotti link.
I've never heard anyone match that Nessun Dorma...
Aw Naw,
as I said,it is all a gamble.
Would just prefer our money to be gambled on players,rather tha "the market".
There is a stock exchnge for that.
Yesterday Kelly's Heroes suggested that we might consider organising a collection (say £5 each) to bring our newly converted Faroese Bhoy, Oli, and his Dad, across from the Faroes for a match at Celtic Park.
I am happy to organise things and arrange accommodation within the UK, but am not best placed to organise flights between the Faroes and Aberdeen, probably via Copenhagen. I am sure we must have a CQNer from up Aberdeen way who could look after this part of the arrangements. And I know a man who would probably donate two match tickets to the Faroese cause.
But do we really have any interest in bringing this to fruition?
(Any ideas Paul?)
Peat if given evidence of SPL club transgressing disclosure rules(Ragers) action will be taken but will not confirm if same action as against the other 3 .... he's getting a real hard time.
SFTB,
Hinkel was a necessity left pending from last summer.
Samaras was also a necessity having sold KM so close to the transfer window closing and looks to be an excellent piece of business. Remember what Man C paid for him!!
I reckon DD looks upon Celtic as I look upon my premium bonds
Translation of short Artur's interview, given today to the Polish "Przeglad Sportowy"
Przegląd Sportowy: With the end of August, this transfer window will be closed for the big leagues. Frans Hoek, coach of the Polish goalkeepers in the National Team said - if you want to be one of five best goalkeepers, you must change the club. It must be one of the top European clubs.
Artur Boruc: Celtic is one of the top European clubs. Why should I leave them?
Przeglad Sportowy: Becouse Celtic chances and potentials are limited.Even Gordon Strachan said – we can go through to1/8 of the Champions League, not farther.
Artur Boruc: I cannot agree with that. I think, with a little help of fortune, we can go farther. If we can go through so far, this farther is avwry often only the matter of good luck. I believe, this team has big potentials, regardless of what people say about it.
Przeglad Sportowy: But, Celtic did not make big transfers. Without that, you can only dream about success.
Artur Boruc: I must dissagree with that. We have achieved good results in the previous season. Why we should change that? The team will get stability and experience. We don’t need big transfers. Anyway, according to my knowledge, we will have new players.
Przeglad Sportowy: If I’m not mistaken, Celtic says – Artur Boruc value is 10 million GBP. That helps you to increase your self- assessment?
Artur Boruc: Idon’t know how should I feel with that. I have heard about that price, but nobody who is resposible for the transfer has told me about that price. So, it’s hard to make comment on that. It’s very nice, when somebody who is from outside says- you are good. That’s natural. If, in addition that says Milan’s coach, it’s clear, I must have positive feelings about that.
Tommorow’s press.
"Artur Boruc leaving Celtic" episode 1174.
Newspaper: With the end of August, this transfer window will be closed for the big leagues. Frans Hoek, coach of the Polish goalkeepers in the National Team said - if you want to be one of five best goalkeepers, you must change the club. It must be one of the top European clubs.
Artur Boruc: Celtic is only one of many European clubs, I must leave them. Celtic chances and potentials are limited.Even Gordon Strachan said – we can go through to1/8 of the Champions League, not farther.I can agree with Gordon Strachan in that matter. I think, we cannot go farther. Our success was only the matter of good luck.
Newspaper: Celtic did not make big transfers. Without that, you can only dream about success.
Artur Boruc: I must agree with that. They should change that? The team is lack of stability and experience. We need big transfers. According to my knowledge, we will not have new players.
Newspaper: If I’m not mistaken, Celtic says – Artur Boruc value is 10 million GBP. That helps you to increase your self- assessment?
Artur Boruc: Idon’t know how should I feel with that. I have heard about that price, but nobody who is resposible for the transfer has told me I’m worth this price. So, it’s hard to make comment on that.That’s natural. But, Milan’s coach says well about me, I must have positive feelings about my forthcoming departure.
Kano,
I dont want it to be gambled on the stock market. I would like to see it invested in our club. With a much larger and more encompassing youth academy. A chain of services like social clubs, shops, cafes all within the vicinity of Celtic Park and possibly other areas that are well run and making us a good profit while expanding our name etc. A car park that has tar macadam on it and you just buy a ticket - no protection money etc.
It just needs a bit of faith and imagination.
Who knows maybe one day we will make so much money we can take the scabby logo of of our beloved hoops
Hail Hail
Evander Sno .. red carded today ??
Ross County are going to take it all the way with no expense spared and name and shame those involved. As Chick said this story will run and run............
Awe Naw
I know Hinkel was a deferred (pending?) purchase from the previous summer.It's just my take on Neg Anon's point that he believes this has been going on for some years e.g. the Petrov money being re-invested slowly.
It's probably best if he states the key points of the board's duplicity as he sees it rather than as I interpret him. But, I would also ask that he states the circumstances which would prove him wrong.
e.g. If the board did not pay dividends for 10 years, would that prove their bona fides ( I think that means good dug in Latin)?
If they buy £8 to 10 million pounds of player(s) before the end of this window, would he have been wrong?
Awe_Naw,
Apparently it was for a studs up tackle on a Nigerian player.
Negative Anon
The board are fighting our corner
I agree with what we are doing when it comes to the tickets.
All the clubs add an extra £4-£6 for tickets for their grounds, when celtic and rangers fans come to town.
Most of them a very happy moving their own fans to different areas so they can get more of us at the game. So for their biggest games of the season, its the celtic and rangers office staff who get all the extra admin.
Neg Anon
If you only want a signing then the window isn't closed yet.
Paul
Enjoyed your article but I have to agree with those who have pointed out that money in the bank is not something a football club should have as a corporate aim - clearly sufficient cash to avoid expensive short term debt makes sense but a Rainy Day Fund is just going to antagonise fans, players, the manager and the media - surplus cash should always be reinvested in the playing squad, infrastructure or new revenue generating activities.
Maybe you were flying a kite?
VertWolf
o1Bhoy sorry I never responded more quickly, been offline.
Fergus statement
‘The dogs may bark; the caravan goes on!’
I had that Fergus statement printed and tacked up at my work station. I thought it really hit the spot, all the defeatist and negative thikners telling him it couldn't be done but him not wavering and completing the job( eg Remember Man U had just failed in their share issue and people scoffed at us trying it when a team like Man U couldn't do it I seem to remember the Kelly from the old board being among the mockers)
Here is a googled extract about the saying
In the words of a fine Arab proverb, ‘The dogs may bark; the caravan goes on!’‥Its effect was great, the proverb being familiar to us already. It had taken the place, that year, among people who ‘really counted’, of ‘He who sows the wind shall reap the whirlwind.’
[1924 C. K. Scott moncrieff tr. Proust's Within Budding Grove I. 45]
I was struggling to explain the situation to an old Moor. ‥After thinking it over he murmured: ‘Dogs bark but the caravan goes on.’
Hail hail
Freddiebhoy ( 7:48 PM ) said -
"Peat if given evidence of SPL club transgressing disclosure rules(Ragers) action will be taken but will not confirm if same action as against the other 3"
----------------
Couldnae make it up, could you?
It's his job to determine whether the clubs meet the criteria, not wait till "given evidence".
Who does he expect to "give" him the evidence? Murray?
He found no difficulty in digging up evidence to do the wee clubs out of their share...
In short, it's a criminal shame.
someone posted on here recently that the only non spl club left competing are stenhousemuir
co-incidently thats the club peat is now attached to, or was after he took airdrie into receivership
now , if thats true, how much easier must it be to attract good young players .....good young players which can ultimately be sold for a healthy profit
and he had the cheek to call craig levein "criminal"
Evening all....
I`ve read some of the above with interest. I think neganon is wrong in his assertion that the cqners are sheep to the board, Paul or whoever else. Some of the most interesting times on the blog have been that of debate (sometimes heated) and frank exchanges of opinion. I don`t agree with all decisions made by the board. I don`t even agree with all appointments to our board and have voiced same herein, albeit in a respectful manner. However, when the respect amongst fellow fans evaporates it leave a somewhat sour taste. Times are good, we`re the champions, we`re on the up and improving year on year. They are collapsing before our very eyes. Let`s enjoy!!
If this site isn`t to your taste, why waste time browsing/composing and so on??
I would say that any business would be in a strong position should it be able to put assets aside to counter future changes in the marketplace and dispel future threats. Whether this is an achievable goal is another matter.
Also, I was in the ticket office today and learnt that general season tickets which include the games v rankers are no longer available. To me, neganon, this means that there is a waiting list.
Finally, any credibility is lost on me when you attempt to justify the sneaks entering match's on children's tickets.
Hail Hail
Jamiebhoy.
I've read a fair few today, and recently, stating that we should spend now in order to "bury" Rangers. Just how do we achieve that?
I reckon they would have to cooperate in the strategy of burying themselves. Most of the former big clubs that got into trouble and slipped down the divisions (Leeds, Forest) got themselves into trouble via financial recklessness. Man U and Chelsea did not push them there except by being able to buy big AND be successful without being equally reckless. Leeds and Forest could have survived the worst of their banishment if they had bought according to their means i.e. invested because they were successful and not because they wanted to be so. That's more like gambling than investment and there are very few consistently profitable gamblers in the world.
When we won 9 titles in a row, Rangers survived. When they won 9iar, we survived, though we had more of a financial crisis in the 90's than they had in the 66-74 period. So SPL success, on its own, cannot bury them even though it is a nice feeling for us.
How many titles would it take? Rosenborg won 13 in a row between 92 and 04. 14 of the last 16 Norwegian titles are theirs. Even this amount did not bury their rivals. Rosenborg have won only one of the last 3 titles. They did not even finish in the top 3 in 2007. So dominant positions do come to an end.
It may surprise our younger readers to know that Chelsea, Man U, Liverpool and Arsenal have all been relegated from top flight English football. Celtic came very close to this fate once too. Yet, I cannot reasonably expect that any of these clubs, Rangers included, will suffer relegation in the near future unless they go mad financially.
Yes, we can make Rangers suffer and squirm under our football domination. We can make it highly likely that we will be champions and they will not through our current strategy of relative financial advantage. What we cannot do is guarantee it. Such is the nature of competitive sport.
It could be argued that by tilting at the CL and investing to challenge there, we could be giving Rangers the best chance to bounce back from their disadvantageous position if we financially exhaust ourselves trying to reach the level of other teams with perennial unearned financial advantages.
No, until we are in a different commercial market, my primary goal each year is the SPL title. Everything else is a bonus.
Neganon,
Thank god there is someone talking sense again, please dont disappear, I cant believe the "all is rosy" articles and statements I have browsed through all summer, we really need to up our play in the transfer market, a LB, CB, striker and midfielder, but cant get excited as I expect to be disappointed yet again, no one is talking about creating massive debts but we have money to spend and we are not spending it, we even got more thanks to rangers' exit but still we wont spend it, however there will always be dividends shelled out! The statement that spending more will not keep rangers down really amused me!
RogueLeader @ 1:11PM - it is all part of the great conspiracy. Paul must have thrown the guy a bung to make him make such a statement...either that or his friends that run al those other websites are helping him out with his lies.
Poor old Josh...must be turning in his big box.
When Peat was asked about the latest appeal vote he said it was "agreed" to let the original decision stand. Each individual gave their view. He then tried to distance himself from being the person responsible in any way for the situation. In an agreed goodwill gesture peat said they would cover £15000 of the shortfall for each clubs estimated £30000 shortfalls, this was dissmissed by all parties saying it was about the kids and common sense not money.
Zysbsek
If it were ever needed, that little satire was proof that you have been well and truly steeped in the Celtic ethos.
Why, you've even gotten the 'chip on the shoulder' paranoia every true Celt feels towards our glorious free press!
Taker a bow, sir, take a bow.
"7 million net spend each summer is sustainable, even without European money", this was a statement made a few years ago on this site by Paul, however the goalposts seemed to have moved again, as I said before, its now
"two legs good, four legs better"
Very interesting reading on here tonight.
I for one am pleased at the way our club is being run, what a change from the "Cambuslang years". Thank god "The Rebels Won." Like jamiesbhoy and other posters I do not always agree with board appointments or decisions however I feel we have strategies in place, good people at the helm and we have never been better managed- The future sure looks bright!
I used to laugh when when one team or other were described as " 5 years ahead" of the opposition; key signings, key decisions, injuries, fate etc can change the course of season but if we continue to be proactive with all our business this allows us to react when need be.
I am a great admire of Fergus McCann who stuck by his guns even when so of his own followed the tabloid lead and turned on him. Dermot Desmond is a less public figure but very much in control and I for one am happy with that!
Check this peach out:
FROM THE HERALD, MARCH 2000
Murray's Blueprint
Just as promised, Rangers are moving on to another level from the rest of Scottish football, as chairman David Murray announced a new investment of £53m for the Ibrox club, with a further massive cash boost soon to follow. The eventual cash injection could soar as high as £80m as Murray guides the club into what he believes will be a new, golden era for the Scottish champions.
The money involved, the biggest financial boost for any Scottish football club, will enable them to move into Europe's elite over the next few years. Yesterday, however, Murray maintained, as always, that he will not turn his back on Scottish football to play in any other league, and that while he remains in charge of the club, he will retain a responsibility to the domestic game."
It is clear from this latest move, however, that the Glasgow giants are setting an agenda that no other Scottish club can match - and that appears to include their Old Firm rivals, Celtic, who are trailing by 15 points in the Premier League championship and are now looking at a financial gap which the Parkhead club might not be able to bridge. There have been hints around Glasgow that Celtic could be ready to attempt a share flotation of their own, but it would seem unlikely they would be able to match the financial clout that Murray has put together. The Ibrox chairman promised his shareholders good news and a more prudent financial strategy at the last annual meeting of the club. He has now delivered this by taking on board several very heavy financial hitters, South African-based David King is worth around £300m - £20m of which he is investing in the club he followed as a young man in Glasgow."
The Ibrox chairman has spent several months and many sleepless nights piecing together the plans which will eliminate Rangers' debt, currently sitting at around £40m, provide finance for the new training centre and the soccer academy which will be housed there, and still allow cash to invest in
new players.
He said: 'I want to make it clear from the outset that while our small shareholders, our supporters who have an interest in the club, will have the opportunity to invest again if they want, there is no pressure on them to do so. The bulk of the rights issue is being taken up by myself and David King and some other smaller investors, including Alastair Johnston, who is a long-time Rangers' supporter.'
'We also have Trevor Hemmings coming in as an investor and Tom Hunter will join us some time in the future. Essentially, the investment we require is in place and we also have a major media deal in the pipeline which is very exciting and will bring in further serious investment to the club. I told you earlier this week that I had run the club up to now on a high-risk strategy which has involved carrying large debt. These days are over. The whole method of running the club is going to change, because we are in a situation right now where we do not need to take the risks we have had to take in the past. We don't have to spend the same money on players, for example, as we have had to do over the past two years when we were restructuring the team after the arrival of Dick Advocaat. At the moment, we have two new players set for next season, Allan Johnston and Fernando Ricksen and Dick is looking for another quality striker. He is working hard on that right now.'
'Dick and myself know what we are aiming for. We want to be in the Champions League every season. This is what we want for the club and this is what we have been working towards. However, we shall not be going on any wild spending sprees in the transfer market.'
'We have a player or two to add to the squad - a top-class international front player, as I said, but we don't need to buy Numan, van Bronckhorst, Mols, Reyna, or McCann - because we have these lads in place already. Believe me when I tell you that we are going for it this time - we want to be successful in Europe, and the money we are raising now will take us there.'
'This is the last part of the jigsaw for me, but we shall always be a part of Scottish football and we will take our domestic responsibilities seriously. We respect the other teams in the Premier League and we know this news will make them try even harder against us. But, so be it. 'Barcelona don't win every week. Bayern Munich don't win every week. Manchester United don't win every week. Yet, our supporters expect us to do so and we shall always try to do that. What we do know is that to be in the Champions League, we have to win the Scottish title, and that is our aim every season. We shall always be here with our roots.'
However, the mega-deals Murray has been working on are sure to carry Rangers out of the reach of their rivals here at home and unless Celtic can somehow find the means to strengthen their own financial standing even the age-old rivalry between the Glasgow giants will be threatened as the Ibrox men grow ever stronger
fergie 67 - totally agree about O'Dea. My worry is that the central defence is not entirely picked on merit ie McManus as captain is virtually guaranteed a place. I reckon if Darren was in all season he'd be #1. He was thrown into Europe as an inexperienced player and coped excellently. don't use him and risk losing him.
Shelbourne1916
If we spend, say £2m net this year and win the title by 3 points where is the benfit in spending, say £7m net this year and winning the title by 10 points?
SwanseaBhoy
Freddiebhoy
the comment about money sums Peat up, he misses the point that it is about youth development and promoting football-something he dramatically failed to do in my home town; and he is now a senior figure in Scottish football-you couldn't make it up!
On hearing it was a virtual reserve team i was undecided as to watch or not, feeling suitably thirsty after my customary 'spanish stroll', i give myself the yes vote and look for a suitable venue.
Went into this beachfront bar and was served by the owner, who by chance, was a fellow scot. A Hibbie, i can think of worse things that start with 'h' and its not piles.
Anyway to make a short story longer, we immediately struck up a good rapour(its the banter) and when HT arrives i spot a banner 'if you are watching in blue & white , this is what the European cup looks like' (class). Mentions this to the owner(John, thats you famous now) and we have a wee laugh at it.
I immediately overhear this comment eminating from one of the nearby tables, 'god, what would CELTIC know about the European cup'.
Bull a red to rag.
Rearange into a well known phrase or saying.
rag to a redbull(soak it up?)
After 5 mins of education Celtic style his face was shut.
As he was only 20 or so and with his parents, i went a bit easy on him, as is often muted, the younger you learn the better.
He will probably, on reflection, consider it as a life enhancing moment.
As our 'conversation continued it became rapidly apparent that the boy had inherited his father's grasp of football.
Liverpool will not finish in the top 6 and Robbie Keane is not as good as Peter Crouch, just two of the pearls of wisdom offered up to me as logic.
Oh! and btw, they were sunderland fans, didn't want to give the game away too early.
¿ why wasn't Hadrian's wall never enlarged ?
mackemlaff csc
Just so that I am clear on this. Are some of you saying that the club is well run and others saying that it is not well run?
Could those who feel that it is not being run well tell me what is needed for you to consider it as being well run? If the answer is `more signings` does that mean you are very happy with Gordon`s signings over the years? Pray tell.
NegAnon
I'm more inclined to Paul67's view than yours. That's neither here nor there.
Your posts are pretty aggresive in their tone. Can you make your point in a less agitated way?
One thing I'm certain of is that Paul67 has Celtic's best interests at heart. I'm also certain that you have Celtic's best intersts at heart.
Couldn't you disagree with our host without the personal insults?
SwanseaBhoy
SwanseaBhoy we might actually play better football than the dross we have had to put up with since the last year of MoN!! This is in turn will give us a better product which will be easier to market! Yes we may be winning and be succesfull but we can ALWAYS improve!
DD
I enjoy spending my money on Celtic merchandise / tickets, because I believe it will be spent on MY team, making US better.
If the board are planning on saving my money and other peoples like me for a rainy day, they need a reality check.
I AM NOT SPENDING MONEY ON CELTIC TO MAKE THE BALANCE SHEET LOOK BETTER!
I spend money so CELTIC to become a better football team.
If no money is spent on the team, my money will be staying in my pocket making me richer, not the Celtic board.
I will cancel my ticket and not buy merchandise - if it is not being reinvisted where it matters, THE FIELD.
My money is for CELTIC FOOTBALL TEAM, not for the board.
Kano 6.27
I have calmed down now .So i will respond.
Firstly "If i am half the man ,i say iam."
Just what kind of man, have i claimed to Be?
Secondly, my irk with you is the insults.
There is no need for it.
e.g. My diatribe.
Why do you have to call my comments diatribe?
Is it not good enough to say .I don't agree with you,and here is my point of view.
Where is my post a forcefull verbal attack?
I am am not attacking anybody.
I am stating a point of view.I am concerned that we are losing valueable revenue ,which the club could use to buy better players.
y Thirdly .Yes i do own shares,and furthermore i have shares in Celtic as part of that portfolio.
Neg Anon et al - Some numbers
2003-04 We had a total football budget of £38mill from memory.
That was wages and bonuses plus some spend to invest.
MON took this as putting his main men on longer contracts.
2004-05 I think it was less as HL's £2mill salary was off the bill.
I am using this as background, nothing more.
2005-06 = Deadwood clear-out.
Wages were reduced to a level of around £25mill + bonuses.
The cashflow was used to pay for real player investment.
In / Summer:
MZ / AB (loan) / SN / AV / PT / MC / DW (loan)
Total was £5mill approx to my mind.
January:
RK (windfall) / DD / MW / AB (contract)
Total was £1.5mill approx.
Out:
We had to pay people to leave.
All in spend was less than £7mill as a best guess.
Paid for by the emergency share sale.
Without that we were toast in financial terms.
The lesson being that £58mill was not enough to run the club and invest at the same time.
2006-07 = Building from CL strength.
In / Summer:
Bosman Two = KM / GC
Big Three = JVoH / TG / GG
Punts = ES / DR
Bermuda Triangle = LN
Total spend was £7mill approx plus a trip to Chelsea for a pre-season game.
In / January:
Windfall = SP
Punt = MB / JJPD (loan)
Peace offering = PH
Total spend was £1.5mill max.
All in spend was £8mill approx with the big news that none of our initial three targets were signed.
Out:
SP
SV + RW
JH
SP - Jan 2007
SM - Jan 2007
Total income = £9.5mill approx
Wiki figures which I need to check as it seems £1mill too high.
The main point was that we were overall sellers that season.
2007-08 Here we go! / CL qualifier awaits
In / Summer:
Midfield Two = SB / MD
Punts? = SMcD / CK / JJPD (contract)
Bermuda triangle = No-one
Total spend was £7mill max with the SB buy being strange as it seemed to take place before the Financial year end.
In / January:
Gap Pluggers = AH / BR
Punts = BH / KMi
Windfall = GS
Bermuda triangle = No one.
Total spend was £3mill approx
Out:
CB
DM
KM
JJ - Jan
MZ - Jan
TB for washers / This will come back to haunt us.
AN Other x 6 for small fees.
Total income = £6.5mill approx
Net spend looking like £3mill with KM pushed out the door late on when TFOD scraped into the CL and £2mill was consequently lost?
Overall the spend has been pretty tight.
Wages excl bonuses seem to be under £30mill poss on their way to £25mill.
Given the good CL income the low net spend means that we paid L/town in cash.
The thing is we do not seem to be investing the £7mill annually our CL enhanced income suggests we should.
Why?
£10mill is our stake money for 2014 CG revamp?
Consequently interesting to find out what happens in 2008-09?
DR = Go
TG = Go
LN = Go
Fill the Bermuda Triangle / LB spot
Quality at CB.
Rabbit out a hat.
Swansea,
Dont know about you but I aspire to improve in Europe, what do you think? Last season was too close for comfort, we cant always rely on others to help us win it! There are glaring deficiencies in our team, would you not rather we improve the team than leave money in the bank or pay dividends, after all we are a football club!
Got egg on my face though, that quote should be
"four legs good, two legs better"
dziekanowskis_dazzlers on August 7, 2008 9:05 PM
You're spot on. We might. And we might not. But we'd be £5m worse off.
MON's a good example actually. We've spent significantly less since he departed and achieved more success - 3IAR and last 16 of the CL twice.
Arguably, the quality of football we watched under MON was often far from scintillating.
I love MON but he was not perfect.
SwanseaBhoy
Swansea Bhoy
Why should NegAnon alter the tone of his comments? Surely each of us has the right to decide the most appropriate tone to reflect how we feel about a topic? Most of us decided that the hardly praiseworthy gloating was most apt when posting about Kaunus/Rearrangers and joy when talking about helicopter Thursday so why not agitation if NegAnon feels agitated? Paul can cope wih disagreement, as,indeed,can we all I hope.
Blindlemonchitlin
I knew, Artur's interview, he gave today was not very important. I wanted to say, that he says the same, here and there. That means, Izolator Boguchwala did not make the offer yet.
P.S. I had to check 'chip on the shoulder' in the dictionary!
Just logged on, anybody got an update on the Glasgow Cup game?
fingerscrossedcsc
Don't know if it's been posted already, but, it appears that Basa has decided to join Lokomotiv Moscow.
I blame Kojo for his yesterday's post.
French site says, Marko Basa has signed for Lokomotiv Moscow.
Bassa is off to Moscow according to French media.
footy latest are saying that reports in france state that marko basa has decided to join locomotiv moscow.
Shelbourne1916
I aspire to improve everything about Celtic including progressing in Europe but my estimation is that we are not in a position to expect it.
My genuinely held belief is that the last 16 is punching above our weight and last 8 is an unrealistic ambition. I want it as much as the next Celtic fan, I want an Aston martin in my drive too, but neither is likely to happen anytime soon.
I EXPECT and DEMAND that the Board have a strategy to beat Rangers to the title and to compete in the Group stages of the CL. To overreach in a gamble to achieve the last eight of the CL, putting the club into financial difficulty, would be bonkers. How much would we need to spend to Guaruntee the last 8? Fortunes we don't have.
Win the title - a must.
Compete in the CL Group Stages - a must.
Beyond that - a bonus.
Some will think I'm defeatist, I'd argue realistic.
Whatever, I love the Celtic as I'm sure you do.
SwanseaBhoy
Setting free the bears
I believe you are 100% correct about the league being our priority every season as it keeps us in a more powerful position for the future. Any run we get in Europe I view as a bonus but hope that it does not affect our chances of winning the league.
While the Seville season was great,it was my feeling at the time that we lost the league that year because we were focussing on the European run. There were games when we could have hammered teams by a a number of goals which would have made the goal difference irrelevant. One game in particular was Dundee Utd at CP where we were 2-0 up and hardly played in their half in the second half.
In other games we rested players and dropped points we should have g