Murray gets Pythonesque about Scotland's Shame
Sir David Murray: "I have gone on record in the past as saying Scotland's shame is not sectarianism, it is drugs and obesity."
It took me a second to place this sentiment, before I remembered:
American tourist: "What I'm suggesting is that this place is the crummiest, shoddiest, worst run hotel in the whole of Western Europe."
The Major: "No! No, I won't have that, there's a place in Eastbourne...."
One of John Cleese classic Fawlty Towers moments seems to have inspired Sir David Murray into authentic Pythonesque logic. There are at least two more shameful aspects to Scottish society than sectarianism.
What a relief.
I do, though, have some sympathy for Murray. His claim that "In the 20 years I've been at this club there has been a vast, vast improvement on sectarianism at the club," is irrefutable. He ended a sectarian signing policy which stretched back decades and even recruited a Catholic manager, an act which was unthinkable before his time.
19 years after taking the first of these steps, Rangers are still facing the same (17th Century) internal battles, but unlike 1989, when Murray was an imperious figure in Scottish football and could confidently challenge the Rangers support, he has lost most of his authority and will find his pronouncements opposed at every turn.
News coverage this morning will enrage his opponents, who will recoil that he has associated the words 'Rangers' and 'sectarian' again, and will certainly not comply with his wishes.
This will not end well. Or soon.
We have so much to ponder. Obese people are certainly not the healthiest, but are they worthy of shame? Sounds a bit fattist to me. Anyway, it's lunch time so better not overindulge, just in case there is a whole new avenue of prejudice about to open up, even if you are offered a"wafter-thin mint".
Why should/would any Scots born player with irish ancestry want to play for a country where they're continually told to go back to Ireland ?
wafer thin mint . Classic
I am sorry he is from Barcelona.....
LAzarus,
You have excellent taste in music and football. You must be a happy chappy!
Off now to find that number plate in OZ, CE1TIC, for a measly 2500 dollars. £1000 only. It's a snip!
I don't have a car, so I'll have to wear it round my neck as I walk to work!
PJBhoynyc -
Who?
Crosas?
Lurcy
Drugs and obesity ?
Somebody should have told David Murray that I left the country 25 years ago ;-)
“I have always wanted to play for Ireland and when the manager Sean McCaffrey picked me for these fixtures against Italy, I was delighted. I know that I’ll have to work very hard to get a spot in the team because they are a good side.
“I was born in Scotland but my mother’s family are from Donegal. My grandfather, Paddy Coyle, was a big influence on me before he died and it was my intention to represent Ireland if I was lucky enough to be selected.
“I was a Glasgow Celtic supporter as a kid and my grandfather used to tell about the history of Celtic and the Irish International team.
“I spent some time in Ireland with my relatives when I was younger and my aunts and uncles are coming along to the games during the week. My parents are coming over from Scotland, too.
macjay
Can't believe I am reading of dan divers on CQN. St Aloysius did have a few very good cricketers in the 80s, with some getting recognition for Scotland I think.
Also interesting to see that the College is still joint leaders in number of wins of the Scottish Schools rugby cup (5 times) along with Merchiston and Gala, yet incredibly only a couple of OA's ever played for Scotland at this sport, indeed only 4 catholics, that i am aware of have ever played for Scotland at Rugby.
SDM is a bit of a fatty so he is Scotland's Shame after all!
Yarranabbe Bhoy -
I have to get one of the following -
CUR1Y
or
C11RLY (with a carefully located bolt between the 1's)
Or one of these -
Y11RCL
U1RYC
R11CLY
RUC1Y
etc
CYR11L
Murrays comments, and Bains, were designed to show their support for the 'support', yet only highlighted the major problems they face. I agree Paul, the divisions between the owner of the club and the rank and file 'minority' will never now be healed!
Worse still, I believe it's affecting SDM's ability to divorce himself from it all...which must be a double edged blow to his pride and his finances!
Where it all ends up I don't know, but we need to keep ourselves away from being draggged into any squabble and keep ahead of the game!
We are not them in any shape or form!
We all know the debate on Mcgeady but why is there no outcry in the world over Eduardo(brazilian), Deco(brazilian), Nani(Cape Verde), Seedorf(Surinam), Davids(Surinam), Camoranesi(Argentinian), Podolski(Poland), Klose(Poland)playing for countries other than their birth and more closer to home Matt Elliot, Nigal Quashie, Richard Gough, Stuart McCall, Andy Goram, Brian Mclean(ex hun player chose N.Ireland over Scotland NOTHING said bout that! It's because SCOTLAND'S SHAME IS SECTARIANISM ! THEY HATE US SIMPLE AS!
moonbeams blames the council for the delay in his superdome plans
Rangers to get green light for £350m Ibrox plan
RANGERS are set to be given the go-ahead today for an ambitious s350million development around Ibrox Stadium.
Chairman Sir David Murray, left, has told supporters Glasgow City Council are finally ready to transfer land to the club for a project they aim to complete before the Commonwealth Games in 2014.Record Sport can reveal plans for the 45-acre site include a hotel, housing, an underground car park, mini arena for concerts and exhibitions and retail space.
Murray will now seek funding partners and while he admits to concerns over the economy, he insists the project is a goer and will deliver financially for Rangers.
Plans to re-build Ibrox have been put on the back burner but there will be a walkway leading to the listed Ibrox main stand and possible redevelopment in future.
Rangers will be offered land at market rates around the Hinshelwood area of Ibrox, which includes the flats behind the club car park, which is also part of the scheme. The all weather sports facility in front of the stadium would also come down and be rebuilt elsewhere in Govan.
Murray apologised to fans at the Rangers' agm for the delay in the announcement, originally expected in May, and claimed the council were dragging their feet.
He expects the development to be a success and hinted there is political goodwill behind the project, not least because the area around Celtic Park is also seeing massive investment ahead of the games.
Murray said:"We are assured the plans will be approved by Glasgow Council and I believe they have a fair chance of succeeding in some shape or form - due to help going on in other areas of the city, may I say.
"They need to prepare the city for the Commonwealth Games and let's hope we can find suitable partners and the economy's in better shape.
"We have a masterplan that will hopefully give financial benefit to Rangers because the funds will go to the club and no one else."
Rangers will give further details of the scale of the development in the next fortnight.
right lunchtime off to the chippy, for a fish supper and a bottle of irn bru
scotlands shame not me
notasthinasiusedtobecsc
Paul67,
during your server outages a few weeks back I was watching reruns of Fawlty Towers on UK TV Gold
I thought of you when he said this
"A*?E I have to put up with from you people. You ponce in here expecting to be waited on hand and foot, while I'm trying to run a hotel here. Have you any idea of how much there is to do? Do you ever think of that? Of course not, you're all too busy sticking your noses into every corner, poking around for things to complain about, aren't you? Well let me tell you something - this is exactly how Nazi Germany started. A lot of layabouts with nothing better to do than to cause trouble. Well I've had fifteen years of pandering to the likes of you, and I've had enough. I've had it. Come on, pack your bags and get out. "
dontmentionthewarCSC
p.s I thought of you in a positive sympathetic light
from last thread
Celtic First
Most of their justification for certain songs, chants, merchandise etc comes from the 'We think we're quite clever and have outflanked you lot' school of reasoning and skewed logic. But it's quite easy to see through, isn't it.
It's a smoke and mirrors trick, a speciality of Murray.
He was at it again his spurious 'the real problem is obese kids' tosh - a bid to try and take the heat off Rangers for a while.
I don't think Murray is stupid, but after nearly 20 years, surely he must now realise that the baggage that comes along with many Rangers fans is still there. He's tapped into it enough to keep cash coming in, but ultimately, hasn't done enough to stamp it out, I believe, for fear that money will stop coming in.
He's been quoted as saying that he could have bought his hometown team, Ayr United, and put millions into them instead of buying Rangers. Where's the huge fanbase of Ayr United fans that would been such a great marketing opportunity for a football entrepreneur? No, get a ready made niche with Rangers instead, A bit unsavoury and bigotted...ach, their money's as good as anybody's.
As for trying to sell Rangers - he seriously claims the reason he hasn't done so yet is because he wasn't assured that any potential buyers had the best interests of RFC at heart. Tosh, utter tosh. You can't sell damaged goods easily. A lot of polish would be needed to take the tarnish off that brand. Right enough, they should have plenty in a cupboard somewhere..it hasn't been used up on many trophies in the past few years.
STANDING UP......
HENRIK'SBHOY
you forgot about SHaun Maloney and Terry Butcher ..both didn´t play for the country of their birth
Curly
R11CLY, is on offer for 50 cents! Job lot would be around $10.
I'll recognise you, I'm sure.
Off to watch Max and Paddy!
.
Paul67....Gets Big Joe-esque....
o1specialbranchCSC
Scotlands shame
So after Murray advising that sectarianism actually only comes in 3rd in resepct of Scotlands Shame can we expect TFOD jokers to update their repertoire to include regular rendition of "Who eat all the pies" "Roll out the Barrel" "Lip up Fatty" and all the jibes about aids and drugs that used to be aimed at the Edinburgers a few years ago.
By gallagher on October 10, 2008 12:11 PM
JohnnyClash
Whilst i agree with your point RE McGeady and McCarthy i think their respective decisions say a lot more about Scottish society than your average Scot can bear to contemplate.
Why is it that these players feel more of a pull towards their grandparents home country than the one in which they were born in?
Surely it's not because they've grown up feeling unwelcome in the best small country in the world because of the very heritage i've just mentioned!
Will Murry now tackle Scotland's shame, by getting rid of those horrible half time greasy pies and replacing them with a nice Salad.
Awe Nawe, ha! :-) I need to save that one “you ponce in here expecting...”
Getting better and better Paul.
On a side, but related, issue:
Rev.Mike McC. You decide… is he for real.
Simply the Best
The Ten Most Important games in the History of Celtic;
1/1892 Celtic 5 Queens Park 1, Scottish Cup final replay, at Ibrox Park, Glasgow.
The game was replayed after the first game, with Celtic winning 1-0,was abandoned due to 'crowd encroachment'
The first of many trophies, in what was then the more important competition against the premier team in Scotland at the time.
The balance of power in Scottish football was now going to tilt towards Brother Walfrid's bhoys..
2/1938 Celtic 1 Everton 0,Empire Exhibition Trophy final, at Ibrox Park, Glasgow. A rare opportunity to play competitive football against England's top teams was grabbed by Celtic with both hands.
3/1953 Celtic 2 Hibernian 0 Coronation Cup final, Hampden Park, Glasgow.
Again teams from England were invited. Celtic's victory was unexpected, as some critics felt they were only in the competition to' boost the gates'. In the next season Celtic won the Double, suggesting that the Coronation Cup winners were a very good footballing side.
4/1957 Celtic 7 [seven] Rangers 1 Scottish League Cup final, Hampden Park, Glasgow
Oh, Hampden in the sun.. and the warmth of those memories had to keep the Support warm for many years to come..
5/ 1965 Celtic 3 Dunfermline 2 Scottish Cup final, Hampden Park, Glasgow.
Only six weeks previously Jock Stein, the captain of the Coronation Cup and 53-4 Double winning teams, had been appointed manager at Celtic Park. Billy Mcneill, who is Stein's captain and most trusted lieutenant in the Years of Glory, scores a dramatic late winner.
The silverware drought is to become a flood..
6/1967 Celtic 2 Internazionale 1, European Cup Final, Estadio Nacional,Lisbon.
One Star means more..
7/1998 Celtic 2 St Johnstone 0 Scottish Premier League, Celtic Park Glasgow.
In his one and only season in charge Wim Jansen wins the title and prevents another Glasgow team winning'10-in-a-row'.
After going into an early lead through Henrik Larsson the crowd endure an afternoon of skull-splitting tension until the roar which greets Harald Brattbakk's second, league clinching goal uncorks champagne across the planet
8/ 2000 Celtic 1 Inverness Caledonian Thistle 3 Scottish Cup
This game had to be rescheduled after part of the roof on the Lisbon Lions stand came away before kick-off on the Saturday.
The roof then fell in completely on the' Dream Team' of John Barnes and Kenny Dalglish, not helped by poor league form including the squandering of a two goal lead at home in a defeat to Hearts. Barnes' exit leads to the appointment of Martin O'Neill
9/2003 Celtic 2 Porto 3 UEFA Cup Final, Olympic Stadium, Seville
If Lisbon in 1967 was the finest day in the Club's history then Seville belongs to the Support; even though the team played very well in what was an ultimately unsuccessful bid for a further European trophy.
Even now it seems difficult to accept that we went through the 2002-03 season without winning anything.
10/2008 Dundee United 0 Celtic 1 Scottish Premier league, Tannadice, Dundee
Tommy Burns Thursday
'More than a Club'
Anyways, just my selection.
I'm sure there should be more games included from before WW2
Murray is right. If you offered me a) 5 tubs of curried lard, b) 2 grams of smack along with a quarter ounce of Amsterdams finest, and c) a season ticket for Bileville, I know what two i`d go for. (if I could get off the couch) Shame.
A thought regards "foreign " players and a link to TRS.
Would TFOD consider singing TRS at Hapden tommorrow aimed at ridding the national team of ancestors of immigrants.
I thinks theres a fair few in the current squad
Also on SDMs version of Scotlands Shame - I seem to remember reading a couple of years ago that on the launch of a new shirt the Rankers shops very quickly ran out of size XXXL shirts and had to place an urgent order with the manufacturer.
Perhaps Minty should start to put his won house in order on both the obesity and sectarian issues not to mention the "smoking in the lavvies" issue that they are well on top off.
Burnley '78
I spend a lot of my social time in the company of O.A's and I have to say that they are the keenest of keen in talking about the 'old days' when they represented the College at Rugby and, as time goes bye, they would convince you that a Scotland cap was just around the corner. However, I know the truth! They were only interested in the booze, the stories about the punch-ups, the glorious defeats, the lack of women, the 'pleasure' of getting one of 'bills' from Phillipson, etc.
I do think the inference (perhaps?)about some sort of discrimination would not hold up as none of the guys in my era were ever good enough to move beyond Uni rugby.
P.S. all good guys I must add even macjay!
There's more than one kind of bankruptcy. Seems Rangers might be trying for all of them.
Yarranabbe Bhoy -
Only 50 cents? There's defaltion for you!!
Right guys, leaving the office now, then heading down to Glasgow this evening for a kilt-wearing weekend with a few glasses of sweet sherry.
No internet access until Sunday / Monday.
Y'all have a nice weekend, y'hear!
Curly
loumacarisbettingslip
I'll need to change my moniker now.
Moonbeams half of a wet dream.
loumacarisbettingslip,
Murray's quotes are the usual spin - and slightly different from what the City Council says:
M: "Glasgow City Council are finally ready to transfer land to the club"
GCC: "dispose of its land holdings to RFC subject to receiving full market value" Sell not transfer!
M: ""We have a masterplan"
GCC: "Prior to committing the substantial financial resources required to undertake the detailed technical work necessary to develop a stadium precinct masterplan plan," You don't have a masterplan yet.
M: "We are assured the plans will be approved by Glasgow Council"
GCC: "Notes that a further report outlining the full terms of the option agreement, and the proposed development timescales will be brought back to Committee for consideration in due course." That's not approval!
So he needs to prepare a masterplan, apply for outline planning consent, get that approved, find funding partners (In this economic climate!), prepare a detailed planning application, do the necessary public consultation, get planning approval, put the financial package together and then start construction.
But the delay is the Council's fault!
macjay - DD is a legend, you must be a very old Bhoy indeed if you went to school with him! ;)
gallagher - I think most people in central Scotland from an Irish Catholic family background will have experienced sectarian abuse at some point, quite apart from the summer gauntlet of anti-Catholic, anti-Irish bigot parades. Frankly I'm surprised more Scots of Irish descent haven't chosen to play for Ireland over the years.
Inkybhoy :- Since 2000 we have taken three leagues, four Scottish Cups and four League Cups. While this is nowhere near what I would like it's hardly been a semi permanently empty trophy cabinet.
Burnley @ 12.04
Some time back,philvisreturns,in relation to spelling or grammar,described himself as dandivers C.S.C.
Had hoped to catch his attention while was "on".
dd and Phil Crampsey brought a team out here for a rugby tour.
For me ,a marvellous reunion.
At various times,referance has been made to dd,and various other personalities,particularly Phil`s uncle Bob.
Jim Craig`s son,I know played for Scotland at rugby.
Cheers.
celticlover - It was my great pleasure to represent the D team, or as we called ourselves, the "All Stars" at Rugby. Shivering on a frozen Millerston and being pummelled by bigger kids was never my idea of sport. Neither were the swimming sessions at the decrepit Arlington Baths, at which we always seemed to have the misfortune of being just in after the geriatric session.
Gordon J
You will be in a good mood today - looked bad until the 2 run homer - but thats the beauty of the game. Congrats
Good points on the conflict in statements - one other point I see in Murrays statement from Loumacarisbetting slip post at 12.09
"We have a masterplan that will HOPEFULLY give financial benefit to Rangers"
Aye right dave - Im quite hopeful CFC will win the CL and 10 in a row and that TFOD will go out of business. Old Mrs Jinks put 2 lines on the Lotto every week and is hopeful she will win the Jackpot one day soon
HopesanddreamsCFC
Edward u also forgot the worst fans in europe award for your trophy room !
Ed
It was a poor pay off line, but what else was I going to do!
Since 2000, Celtic have won more titles, and as we all know, that's the big domestic key to the Euro door.
STANDING UP
Macjay,
Coming out to Sydney next week for a holiday. Will you be in any of the celtic supporting pubs watching the Man U game?
playfusbal4dguilders
Philvis
A`m no that bloody old.
Just off out to pick up my youngest,who has,apparently had a grog or three.
senex c.s.c.
jinkysboy,
The Dodgers definitely had the best of the first five innings and could have been more than 2 - 0 up. But that's how the Phillies have been doing it: keep it close and let the hitters do their thing. I was feeling pretty good when I went to bed at 4am!
Game 2 is tonight at 9pm our time. There's an awful lot still to happen in this series, I think.
one more time seen its Friday
... Imagine Murray with microphone in hand
There may be trouble ahead
But while there's moonbeams, excuses
and lack of finance
Let's play our part in this farce
Before the Diddler has fled
Before they ask us to pay the bill
And while we still
lack the finance
Let's play our part in this farce
Soon
We'll be without the loon
Humming a diff'rent tune ;-)
And then
There may be teardrops to shed
So while there's moonbeams, excuses
and lack of finance
Let's play our part in this farce
Farce
Let's play our part in this farce
do do do do do rooh
Edward
Did the Rangers Fans not win the "UEFA Fair Play" award last year?
Henriksbhoy :- I can't recall us being awarded that trophy :-)
While I'm one of the first to condemn many of the action of a section of the Rangers support I don't believe we are anywhere near the worst in Europe. We don't smuggle motorbikes into the ground so we can drop them on fans in the stand below, we don't launch flares at fans in the stand opposite, we don't have a league day cancelled due to murder of police.
We do have a problem and a big one but nothing in comparison to some of the Eastern European or Italian fans.
This isn't to try and claim in any way that the Rangers support are all angels I know they aren't and that we have a rotten core of bigots in the support.
Breaking News
Chelsea taking legal action against the Norwegain team Linn and looking to get the transfer fee (£16m) from the transfer of John Obi Mikel in 2006. Apparently he was not registered as a player with the club and their chairmen has been done for fraud.
SDM is currently reviewing the situation and has instructed his lawyers to demand the refund of £12m from Chelsea from the transfer of Tore Andre Flo on a similar argument as he was never a player either
Clever statement from Murray.
Faced with his deputy's statement that the Racist Song was just a bit of banter he would have been mortified if this song had been referred to directly as he simply could not have taken the same line as Bain but he managed to shift the emphasis away from RACISM in which Rangers are unique and on to SECTARIANISM where it can be argued they are but the other side of the coin.
RACISM has clearly defined characteristics and penalties in law whereas SECTARIANISM does not.
It was worth taking the media hit by admitting sectarian behaviour from a minority of the Rangers support to divert media attention away from the real issue of racism from the massed Ibrox choir.
Big Nan,
Genuine question.
you sure that sectarianism does not have specific legislation in place. I reckon it does but the Scottish authorities are loathed to use them akin to taking their finger out of the dyke but I could well be wrong.
Edward you may not of done any of that YET, but youse rioted in Manchester attackin innocent people and people doing their job(police) after youse got gubbed in Ueaf Cup, have stabbed people in stadium(Zenit fan) Rioted with cops in stadium(Osasuna), Smashed up opposition team bus in their own city and got fined for singing filth in same city(Villareal) and destroyed Bracelona and have now ruined it for any other visiting fan going there now. That is all in the past 3 year alone and in my account in the WORST in europe !
I have been trawling back and noticed some reference to James Traynor but not his actual words re. the TFOS. Any chance of an update.
Is he a racist or a racist apologist?
Edward
You exaggerate the Milan problem greatly - it wasnt a motorbike - just a Vespa scooter. And as the smoking ban kicked in big time here a few years ago and as Alan preston pointed out the Ibrox Prefects have stubbed this problem out and any other fire realted issues. I could also point out theres not much flair at Ibrox but the stage left at midday.
Om a serious note I remember just a few years ago 2 Celtic fans being killed in separate incidents in the near vicinity of Hampden following an old firm final. Surely at least as big a crime as killing one policeman.
I, winningemmell, being of unsound mind, AM Scotland's Shame
Moonbeams,
he´s an apology for a human being.
Does that answer your question ?
Paul67
reference WGs post @ 12.57
I hope the Charity Event has random "dope" tests and a paramedic standing by to administer CPR
ANNAOAN
aye, but I still like to know exactly what he said as I somehow missed it even though I am on here day in day oot.
No WG, I Tully57, being a Fat Fenian Junkie am Scotland's Shame.
Henriksbhoy :- As I said I don't try and pretend that the Rangers support are all angels, I do recognise the violence and mayhem that can accompany sections of our support, however we will have to agree to differ on the worst in Europe.
Jinkysboy :- As a lover of puns you should be taken out and shot for the flair one lol.
On a more serious note, the killing of two Celtic fans is twice the crime that the killing of a policeman is, I wouldn't try and defend that murderous behaviour in any way at all.
Narrowbhoat -
TGITW will return this evening.
No-one seems to be missing it so I was thinking, should I persist ?
I could write scathingly about our enemies forever.
WG
WG..........seconded.
Moonbeams, he said something along the lines of 'there are worse things to worry about than that song. If you think this country is so bad and bigotted why don't you just leave'.
Or words to that effect.
The man is a piece of excrement.
Moonbeams
Isn't there enough to worry about without beating ourselves up over a line in a song?
Sep 22 2008 James Traynor
WHAT? You are not offended by the Famine Song? Sorry, but you are a racist.
If your anger doesn't simmer at the very sound of this ditty then you, my friend, are as bad as the people singing it.
You, too, are tainted by a hatred of Irish Catholics.
That's the logic applied to this little number being belted out by some Rangers fans.
And you will detest it.
You will abhor it. You will write to your MSPs, MPs, UEFA, FIFA, the EU and the Vatican.
This is the most divisive, anti-social and downright malicious trend to be visited upon us yet.
God Almighty, what next?
Falkirk can't be called the Bairns because it might encourage paedophiles to buy season tickets.
Dundee United shall no longer be known as the Arabs in case it inflames problems in the Middle East.
Hibernian's ground will have to be renamed so that other religions are not offended.
Queen of the South can't be called Queens because Republicans and gays will be upset.
Dumbarton must have a complete name change as it could be deemed derogatory to people of limited intelligence.
And that brings us back to the offenders and the offended.
There are old folk among us who might freeze to death this winter because we are all being held to ransom by the power companies.
There are young families who will lose their homes because greedy bankers and lenders were allowed to vandalise the global financial system.
And depending on where you live or how much you have saved you might die because some authorities will not pay for life-saving medication.
These are outrageous. They are national disgraces and should shame every one of us.
So please, don't tell me a line in a song about the decade-long potato famine that made people flee Ireland in their tens of thousands in the middle of the 19th century is what we should be beating ourselves up about.
The Great Famine was a terrible time and it was a disgrace that so many people were allowed to starve to death or die from related diseases but surely we have more going on around us today which demands such levels of disgust.
You know what, a great many of us are sick and tired of the ridiculous behaviour of groups of Old Firm fans, who aren't even interested in the game any more.
The only points they seek are the ones they believe they collect every time they run clyping to a politician.
The line that seems to have offended a number of Celtic fans is something like: "The famine is over, why don't you go home?"
It's supposed to have enraged one fan so much he put in a complaint that had Irish diplomats raise concerns with the Scottish government.
Unbelievable, but if any politician even attempts to tell Rangers' fans to drop it we'll be entering into dangerous times that will threaten our right to free speech. This line is not inciting violence against anyone and it isn't celebrating the fact one million people died because of potato blight in the 1840s.
If anything the line is mocking the often cloyingly sentimental longing of Celtic fans for the old country and if you accept that's all it is then it might even border on humorous.
Actually, if some top comedian,a Billy Connolly or a Frankie Boyle had said something similar everybody would have been slapping their thighs.
So when did the gallows humour of the terracing, which for decades has made us all smile by cutting right through pomposity and politically-correct boundaries, become such a terrible thing?
Look, if Celtic and their fans wish to hang on to and protect their Irish heritage to the point where it actually seems mawkish that is absolutely fine. No one has any right to insist they celebrate their Scottishness instead and, of course, that should mean they have no right to impose their will on others.
And why is it a shock to them that Rangers fans will react in some way? Is it really surprising the other lot see this Irishness as anti-British?
If only we could all just be Scottish and proud, too. Like many Scots I have fairly strong Irish roots but Ireland isn't my country and never will be.
I'm sorry if that insults anyone but I am not offended by someone who doesn't share my view or does not believe that one day we will be a thoroughly decent, modern and thriving nation.
Somehow I cannot see why this line should offend. And don't start sloshing in that bilge about how big a race crime it would be if people were singing our immigrant communities should go home because the troubles have subsided in their own countries.
There are some who believe they shouldn't be here in the first place and that we should never allow in asylum seekers but these people are probably racist.
However, if any of these groups took to gathering regularly in sporting arenas to sing and long for their homelands and the old ways they, too, might be mocked.
But it wouldn't necessarily be racist. It's called freedom of speech. It is a fundamental right that must be protected.
We don't all have to support what is said but we should back the right to say it, provided it is not overtly racist, sectarian or likely to incite violence.
There is a piousness about some Celtic fans and it's as if this support can do no wrong.
They seem to have adopted a holier than thou attitude yet I have not heard one person who claims to be upset by that Famine Song line speaking out against those who sing in support of the IRA or of Nacho Novo catching a bullet.
Neither have they spoken out about the twisted people who indulge in the most disgusting and horrible chat on fans' message boards.
Those are what I call offensive but even so I would rather have that than live in a place where we are not allowed to open our mouths.
In retaliation to the Novo threats, Rangers fans contacted Spanish authorities and that was just as bizarre as the Celtic fan's complaint to an Irish politician about a stupid song.
Strathclyde Police should have dealt with the threats to Novo because they were of a violent nature and those Celtic fans on their imaginary moral high ground should have been more alarmed at that behaviour than anything else.
So, to all those, of any religion or race, who think Scotland is such a bad, twisted place full of bigots and racists there is only one thing to say.
Go.
Go on, just gather up your prejudices, take your suspicions and pack your loathing of Scotland.
Go find a better place to live and leave us to get on with the job of making something good of this country.
WinningGemmell :- I thought the delay in the next episode was caused by the recovery of your beloved gonk in the last thread :-)
You have to keep it going you can't leave us all hanging on never knowing what happens to all involved :-)
.
Jinkysboy....Ed....
Wis it No.... UEFA.... Flair Players.... Award....
o1entertainingfitbarusRFC
O1bhoy :- What has trouser styles got to do with it? :-)
Is this a St.Als reunion day or what?
I think both the Craig lads played for Scotland. James was in my class and most certainly did. Nicky was the year below and think he may have.
Good old Dan Divers introduced me to the joys of classical music - what a man.
SAW CSC
winningemmell
keep it comming all waiting on the piercing or not
playfusbal4dguilders @12:39
the sydney celtic supporters club will be meeting for the man u game in the Cheers bar on george st in the sydney cbd if you want to watch among good brethren
AP State GA
Top news stories > AP State GA Friday, Oct 10, 2008
Posted on Thu, Oct. 09, 2008print email Scots and Irish meet after 100- year hiatus
By MARY LANDERS - Savannah Morning News --
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe we should take a leaf out of this book, albeit a bit more often and begin to disentangle the orange threads in our collective Celtic tapestry.
SAVANNAH, Ga. --Once every hundred years, the Scots and the Irish in Savannah get together for a drink.
This century, the event occurred Wednesday night at the Savannah International Trade and Convention Center.
The Irishmen of the Hibernian Society and the Scotsmen of the Saint Andrew's Society (and we do mean men - these are all-male clubs) met for dinner, where kilts mixed with tuxedos at each table. So did Jameson Irish whiskey and Dewar's Scotch whiskey. A former Irish prime minister who now counts the Scottish people among those he represents was the main speaker.
Bagpipes and drums opened the celebration with "The Wearing of the Green" and "Scotland the Brave."
Then the Most Rev. J. Kevin Boland, bishop of Savannah, gave the invocation.
"... and especially bless the haggis, which to those with Scottish blood is a blessing unto itself, but to those of us not so privileged is a gastronomical miracle of mysterious ingredients," Boland prayed in his County Cork brogue.
The two societies' first get-together in 1908 came about by coincidence. At the time, they discovered they were meeting separately at the same place - Savannah's Hussars Club.
This time around, the camaraderie was planned. Eugene McCracken, a member of both societies with paternal Scottish descent and maternal Irish descent, proposed the idea to mark the centennial of the previous event.
"Do you know what it's like being born half Scotch and half Irish?" he asked, in an obvious set up. "It's being born wanting a drink and being too cheap to go buy one."
But while such friendly ribbing was one order of the evening, there was a serious message, too. John Bruton, a former Irish prime minister and current European Union ambassador to the U.S., was the keynote speaker.
Both Ireland and Scotland have messages of great relevance to current turmoil, he said.
Scotland offers the great economist Adam Smith, known as a proponent of free markets, but who also preached that those markets would work only with "good moral sentiment" between people.
"There's been a breakdown in trust," Bruton said. "After all, credit is all about trust."
From the Irish, there are two lessons from a peace accord reached just 10 years ago, he said. First, you get peace by putting yourself in your antagonist's shoes. And second, to achieve peace, you have to talk to people you don't like.
Bruton, a personal friend of Saint Andrew's Society secretary Howard Morrison, began the evening with his own show of unity: The former Irish prime minister had a drink of Scotch.
Recent Comments
James Traynor
To take him to task on just one point he made (im sure most have been covered elsewhere) the said Billy Connolly made a joke in October 2004 about Liverpuddlian hostage Ken Bigley - saying why dont they get on with it (similarities to Why dont you go home)
He was subsequently widely slated and I believe had to apologise for his poor taste - and rightly so
But Mr Traynor has either a short or selective memory - wonder which eh!
.
Edward....Minty....Scotlands Shame.... et al....
Did Sir Minty Not Quote.... Alcoholism as Scotland's Shame....
So Not....
Tooo
Disparage....
People Who End Up Legless @ The Weekend....
o1bhoy
i'll Get My Straighjacket....
Paul (everyone)
Roll forward to 5:04 on the video where Cleese says "Typical, typical and then goes on a rant about all he has done for his guests. Sounded to me just like Murray's attack on those Rangers fans who serve Rangers up on a plate.
Article in tonights ET
SIR David Murray has admitted Rangers could take over the running of the club shops again if JJB goes bust.
Murray defended the Ibrox club's decision to hand the rights to sell official Gers merchandise to the chain of sports shops in an £18million deal at the AGM yesterday.
However, the millionaire businessman has admitted he has been unhappy with the company's performance and revealed there is a Plan B' which will see the Glasgow giants regain control.
He said: "Financially, the JJB deal is still a good one. The payments are spread over 10 years and that guarantees the club £1.8 million a year. There are other elements to it as well.
advertisement
"However, there is no doubt JJB are not keeping their side of the bargain. There is a problem there. There has to be a question mark over the long-term viability of the company.
"I still think it was a good deal, but we have a Plan B to take ownership back into the club. That will only happen if JJB go out of business."
I think many are missing the SDM point here.
He has condemned as bile website activity amongst the shameful. What he's referring to here is not TFS but criticism of him and his management.
I like the bit in his 'masterplan speech' where he identifies easy planning and activity going into the east end and how his masterplan is going to balance things up, but then goes on to say that all this will ensure financial return as funds raised will go to RFC and no-one else.
So no great commonwealth/city feeling about benefit there then!
Also, in what way is CFC expected to benefit from any of the proposed developmnents in the east end? Or perhaps that was his snyde point, that although there will be much development in the east end CFC won't be getting any beans from it.
For every 5 commonwealth games developments in the east end we'll build 10 in Govan (on our own without any help cos no one likes us we don't care)!
ha ha. Don't you just love when the Big Whale is hurting!
Finally;
Nobody said the S word was Scotland's Shame. It was Scotland's SECRET shame, nudge nudge, roll up ma trews, shake my hand you know what I mean.
Bad diet, health and drugs in Scotland are bad. No, definitely not, not much of a SECRET there, David.
Tully57 -
JOE HARPER is Scotland's Shame
Has SDM dyed his hair??
He seems a shade or two lighter than in previous years, a hue of strawberry blonde possibly?
What with Moonbeams blonde rinse, Bain's perma-tan and Gordon Smith's ridiculous hair piece it seems Scotland's Shame is middle aged (orange) men trying to look young!!
benjybhoy,
Does Gordon Smith honestly wear a hair piece ?
Awe naw
Where you been - everybody knows GS weres a rug
Jinky
I thought it was that spray on hair that Andrew Mc Neil uses.
Never trust a vain man.
Awe naw
Agreed -
But surely it suits his "role" covering up the truth
If we are going to have a pretty boy with no brain fronting the SFA can we not find one that doesn´t wear a wig ? I mean he can be as baldy as Jim Farry as far as I´m concerned I´m not baldist but this is the main reason why he is a commercial disaster. First rule of being a salesman is to lose the wig.
Two interesting things about yesterday. Murray's attempts at deflection and Gordon Smith saying clubs who have tried everything should not be punished. On top of this the Chief Cop says that there are too many folk singing the song for the police to act and its a club problem.
Apart from Smith commemting on something the SPL has responsibility for, enforcing SPL rules, when taken together points to a strategy of denial and powerlessness. "We did everything" (but condemn the song as racist)and they still sing it.
Now if I was holding a party which included folk from other countries and decided I did not want anyone to attend whom had been shown visible signs of being racist I simply would not invite them. Their friends might argue they were OK really, just a bit of banter but they were unwilling to give it up but I would be quite within my rights to say they could behave as the like, but not at my party.
The "We have done everything we can" and "nothing works/powerless" argument, if accepted by Scottish Football Authorities will only save Rangers from local action but should expose them to exclusion from European competitions next season.
The focus should now shift to the SPL, who have still to rule on Boruc's one fingered salute against a background of 7000 singing TFS. Its all gone quiet over there.
Well worth the watch.
Retro Lubo
I'd rather be a fat junkie than a Hun:)
Jinksyboy
Paul will not thank you for one of your comments about Derek Johnstone.
Curly,
Changes in the exchange rate I guess! In these strange times there may be opportunities for fortunes to be made...in buying registration plates in OZ!
I'm waiting for 'KylieM1' and NicoleandTom' to hit rock bottom before I bid!
Anyhooos, whilst we are waiting on some decent club football..and in particular some Champions League football, we should continue to have a laugh, it's our right...and it would seem things can only get better unless we *uck it up. *=m to avoid Paul's ASBO!
Will say again. Ed, your posts are the business and add to this site. Lang may your lumb reek!
Kitalba
Sheer magic
Afternoon, so when i was walking away from the Broomloan Rd, i was being abused 'cos of my weight ? Aye Right !! If your that bothered about it Mr Murray, why don't you invest in Weightwatchers or help out at the local addictions team. Maybe you do, it's just they don't need the spin right now. I fully intend to take my large self to the fives... donning sackcloth and ashes to apologise for my disgraceful shape and presentation, all-the- while giving out badges to those more deserving who dont want me here at all!! Aye its a funny old world
Celtic First
You have lost me there bud
playfusbal 12.39
I`ll probably watch at home with my son.Setanta or CH 67.
Work committments etc.However, keep in touch if you have any problems getting organised for the gemme.
PJ`s option may well be the one you would prefer.
pjinoz,
many thanks will cu i cheers. i'm staying in the "Rocks" so that no too far to waddle home thru rush hour traffic
is it around a 5am kick off?
playfusbal4dguilders
Kitalba, cheers.
DBBIA, good call.
Jinkysboy, good point.
Auldheid, indeed.
Jinksybhoy, I tend to agree with CF. Comments about individuals need to well short of slander.
.
Where is Big Jose....
o1espaniaporfavourSCS
Paul 67
Im lost on that - honestly.
A bit of banter is not slander - but its your ball mate and so i bow to your better judgement.
sid waddell quoting Kevin Barry last night on the darts anyone?!?
Marvellous!
DD
All Time Celtic XI;
Playing 2-3-5 but funnily enough struggling to field a leftback
GK- JThompson 'the Prince'
FB- AMcnair 'the Icicle'; made his debut in 1904, left Celtic in 1925 at the age of 41, having played more league games and enjoyed the longest playing career of any Celt
FB- DMcgrain- in his prime the complete fullback.
HB- BMurdoch-a true maestro in conducting the Lions, with an unsurpassed range of passing.
HB- JKelly . The Clubs first captain, his signing was crucial in giving the new club credibility
HB- PMcstay- for too many years jinxed to be 'the good player in a bad team', he's good enough on his own merots to feature here
FWD- JJohnstone 'the Flying Flea'
FWD- PGallagher'the Mighty Atom'
These two are the supreme entertainers of their day, marrying breathtakingly impudent skill with bravery, their apparent fragility belying a steely determination to pick themselves up and take on their less- skilled tormentors.
FWD -HLarsson 'the King of Kings' Head and shoulders above any other player to wear the Hoops since joining the Club from Feyenoord. Goals,hardwork,assists, goals and more hardwork.
FWD -JQuinn. The first [of many] great centreforward; fast, strong and fearless.
FWD -JMcgrory. The greatest of them all. His goalscoring records will never be broken
Anyways, some great names there, and some great names absent.
Can anyone tell me why Glasgow City Council should just give this prime development land to RFC. Why not just sell it on the open market and allow murray holdings to bid for it. It's not as if MHolding are doing this for the good of the community there stated aim is to bring all profits back into RFC.
play
Don’t let UEFA see this:
Spain deploys their riot police.
Celtic fans disgrace Scotland (and Ireland)
Rubbish - I can't disagree with that team!
Winningemmell
If you are going to end TGITW don't do a "Twin Peaks" please tie up all the storylines, maybe do a "Sopranos" have Duffield in Ramsay's restuarant you or SOAL go to the toilet while "Careful with that Axe Eugene" is playing in the background, you are writing from Duffield's perspective then it goes blank. Then we can have a debate on CQN of what actually happened to Duffield.
Narrowbhoat Macaroon Fondant CSC
ANNAOAN
cheers for that. The man is an apologist creton as well as a racist.
kitalba
Aye... don't let that get out, could become infectious
.
CIA....
Cliff Richard sang for the UK in the Eurovision song contest.........even though he was born in India. Didn't hear to many complaints then
My dear,dear,dear,dear,dear,dear,friend... Jinksyboy
Jist goat in frae the jiggin'
Now..let's see...dum,dum,dum..dee .. dee...
Oh~ I goat it!
The Subject is Wigs, Rugs,Toupees,Hats, Helmets..and Tea Cosies,
their Kith n Their Kin.
Unknown to most, but not to me...
listen my chilun.. and apprised,ye'll be!
Mr. Murray, wears a WIG.
Surprised,ye hiv nevah noticed, but He do,do.. He really,really, do~
Pierre, wears a Wig... sure he does..
Clinton, wears..a.. well.. he actually, he wears a Tea Cosy. didnae ye know that?..not a wig,nor a rug.. He goes all the Way.. Tea Cosy!
George Bush~ ye bet, he as well... He disnae wear a Wig.. he settles fur a Toupee..stylish, but not indetectible.
Gordon Smith? He wears a full blown Hat.. a wee bit under done.. but, a Hat, nevertheless.
I could go on for another Ten Minutes,with this Material..
Howevahhhhh...
I'm done.
Kojo.
yer pal.. who likes ye.
Further to what I sdaid eralier on focusing on the SPL:....
On the main topic of TFS/TRS and how to stop it the focus needs to be placed now - on the SFA and SPL.
These questions need to be asked of the SPL.
Do they agree with what Gordon Smith has said about not punishing clubs who have tried everything?
Is this the SPL policy too and, if so, are they going to change their rules to reflect this policy?
When are the SPL going to pass judgement on the Artur Boruc one fingered salute at CP?
In passing that judgement will they also be passing judgement AT THE SAME TIME on the club whose fans behind Boruc can be heard singing in large numbers a song classified as racist and which they had already been informed (according to the statement issued by Ranger's Chief Executive M Bain) was racist.
Will subsequent incidents of the singing of TFS AFTER Rangers had issued leaflets warning them of consequences (Easter Rd and Paisley), consequences that the police are now saying they cannot enforce, also be taken into account when deciding what action to take?
In failing to take timeous action are the SPL not risking intervention by UEFA that will damage not just Scottish Football but Scotland itself by showing our inability to police ourselves?
Whether this goes to the SPL or not these questions need to be voiced as often as possible and at every opportunity so that sooner or later they are heard and decisive action is taken to stop TFS/TRS being sung. Not acting is not an option for The Scottish Football Authorities both SFA and SPL.
macjay, James Craig did indeed get a cap for Scotland; he was in my class at St Als
AMDG CSC
TMC- I'm sure this truce won't last long!
Anyways, meant to add that James Kelly is my captain and Jock Stein is the Manager. With a full Celtic Park roaring them on they would beat allcomers; typically 9-0[ Mcgrory 3, Quinn 3 Larsson 3]
I know poetry day was yesterday but I'm kind of getting into it now. I am going to start wearing cravats and staring into the distance
For twenty years Sir David ruled and ne’er a question uttered
The Huns were smart, knew where it’s at and the side their bread was buttered
Succulent lamb and tens for fives meant acquiescent orcies
The Darnel were too daft to know Sir Dave was telling porkies
The promise of domestic bliss was put to sleep by Jansen
Their songs went on, but now forlorn, and we were doing the dancing
So Davie spent to build a team of Champions League contenders
But here’s the catch, he failed to match Europe’s real big spenders
So no Big Cup or glory day (like we had with the Lions)
But Davie couldn’t see the signs and still he went a buyin’
He racked up debts with friendly banks (It’s fine, son, don’t you worry”)
Alas the friendly bank has tanked...alas for David Murray.
Now everyone, including Dave, wants him to find a buyer
The RST is making claims that Dodgy Dave’s a liar
The orcs themselves are catching on that Davie Boy’s no saviour
But when will Dave come out and slate their racist bad behaviour?
Let’s hope Lloyds Bank don’t act too rash and force an Ibrox crisis
It’s not my wish to see the Hun carved into little slices
It does not give me any joy if they’re brought to their knees by strangers
It’s much more fun in every game that WE destroy the Rangers