Celtic Quick News, Charity Quiz Night

a childish first

I just asked a question about the quiz night.

Podium?

From the last thread.

GordonJ.

I know that you have stipulated the number that's in each team,but why four,could it not extend to five,six,or seven.

The reason I ask is I feel that our team,Pablo,Jinky,Blantyre T,and myself,are going to be severely handicapped in our quest to be the best team,An extra two bodies would help our chances of winning gold.

The Winchester, was that not the pub in Shaun of the Dead?

Paul,

I think you should auction the chance to post an article on CQN.

Therags...

philvisreturns,
I was thinking Minder.

oldtim67, I smell a hustle.

Therags, ha!

Gordon J,

Is Dave going to be behind the bar?? :-)

HAIL! HAIL!
Token

AUldheid,

I think you missed the part where I said that the custodians of Celtic are only to happy for the SFA not to deal with this. This is a bigger issue that football. Strathclyde polis should be getting involved and slated in the Houses of Parliament for not doing so.

They are not prepared to even implement their own rules within their own stadium resulting in an an acceptance of uneven handling of fans behaviour within our own stadium ????

How many times have Celtic engaged in this process that you hold some faith in ?

Celtic´s custodians want to be seen to be doing something but they are doing nothing as Paul67 points out it is not our problem. I ask the question even when it´s happening within our own stadium ? Even when they handle their own fans with gusto ?

Sorry but that is a cop out ? If you disagree that it´s a cop out then I´d love to hear the argument.

Hail Hail

DownForsam,

Great minds and all that :-)

HAIL! HAIL!
Token

DownForSam - I loved Minder.

That was the TV show about the well-dressed but unscrupulous football club chairman with a penchant for shady deals and moonbeams, and his gormless sidekick?

The action in zom/rom/com 'Shaun of the Dead' was based round the Winchester.

I expect there are zombies, trapped in a strange twilight between life and death, cursed to wander the world in a state of eternal semi-putrefaction, who can remember when the famous Glasgow Celtic created a chance in open play.

And could field a left-back.

Paul,

Come on, what could possibly go wrong? ;-)

I can just imagine the happiness in your heart as Donegaldanny and Malceye become locked in a bidding war.

Therags...

I watched the third disc of the History box set last night. If anyone has not watched it I would advise you to have a look at it. It covers the time of Fergus coming in and shows how bad a condition we were in.

Some of the remarks from our old directors are very telling.

Philvisreturns,
I remember one particular episode, Arthur was expanding his business horizons. Rebranded his "firm" Daley into Europe. Very apt for this season. That one day in Kaunus.
TTT, I'd forgotten his name.

Brought forward from previous thread:
A belated addition to others' remarks last night re: yesterday evening's Radio Scotland (pre-Aberdeen v Falkirk match) discussion re: coverage of Sunday's Celtic Park "Songs of Praise" and the SPL's likely response: this is the first time I have been aware of Richard Gordon having apparent (even tacit) support for the opinions espoused by Keith Jackson on this topic.

Until now, I have always found Richard Gordon's attitude to this issue to be reasonable. However, last night's siding with Keith Jackson's viewpoint (also endorsed, if rather weakly, by Alan Preston) was discouraging in someone who has such influence in selecting commentators to grace the airwaves. Not sure why he felt inclined to give Jackson so much air time and then felt it necessary to go along with such biased views.

oldtim67

have you and dick byrne been speaking behind our backs? ;))

.

Arthur Daley Huddle....

001ICouldBeSoGoodForYouCSC

Oldtim's Team reveal their ringer

Oldtim67, surely with a moniker like that you will have all the history questions covered.

BT knows about pubs, beer & whisky.

Jinkyboy knows all about Jinky

Pablo knows his 80's All American Romantic Rock Classics.

You have all bases covered.

dbbia
can't access that....

BT

DBBIA @ 12.25 :- You missed out the part where they all return to their homes in D&G.

GordonJ.

What was the name of the team that Pablo registered under,The Chancers,or,The No Chancers.I feel that after a couple of drinks it will be the second option.

Blantyretim.001bhoy has opened a book on the betting and he's got us down at 1000/1,to get less than ten questions correct.

Anybody know how much TFOD are spending at Media House? It must be well over £100k a week. Their services seem to be constantly needed.

Gordon_J : can you put up on the blog the teams you have so far?

Or is it a big secret, as Kojo has registered a team (or two)?!

TTTT

Paul67,

You have mail.

HAIL! HAIL!
Token

B'tim- try this

Ed, yes we were talking only the other day about how house prices locally are being driven up by an influx of flesh-eating Zombies

' Divvae ken thae Zombies?'

'Ah divna. Divv ee ken'em, like?

'Urr thae fae Ayrshire?

'Ah divnae think sae'

'Well, thank god for summit anyway,ken.'

.

Oltim67....

Do The Quiz Teams Have Names....????

The Four Amigos.... Could Be Thought.... ;o))))

Hopefully You All Still Have You Seville Sombreros....Mustaches Would Be a Bonus....

001WhoThinksTheFirstQuestionShouldBeNameTheCelticMoleCSC

To all those attending I hope you have a great night and raise a right few bob for Kano.

Gutted I shall be missing out.

Gordon_J,

Any chance you could do some sort of link to the quiz questions at some point, so that those of us who love a good quiz but can't attend, can at least have a go to see how we might have done?

HAIL! HAIL!

Winchester - Robyn Hitchcock

DBBIA :- Touche :-)

WG: Dad, how do you cope with that woman ? How have you managed to spend almost fifty years of matrimonial bliss with someone who seamlessly translates everything we say into what she wants to be hearing ?

WG’sD: It’s all double-bluff, son. I let your mum haver on around the minutiae and I deal with reality – bills, council tax, the supporters club, the lottery etc. Just keep your eye to the important things and let the women dust around the periphery of life.

WG: Wise words indeed.

WG’sD: And most unlike you to seek them. What can I do for you ? Your maximum withdrawal is £200.

WG: I’m not after cash, dad. Well, not in the short term.

WG’sD: What’s happening in the long term ?

WG: I’m undecided, thought I’d take time to examine my options.

WG’sD: What are your options, son ?

WG: Option A – continue to spend my days of unlimited leisure supporting Celtic, watching Arsenal, drinking in the Teser, commanding the militia, annoying people on CQN and undermining the serried ranks of freemasonry

WG’sD: Go for Option A

WG: You haven’t heard Option B

WG’sD: No matter what Option B is it can’t be better than Option A

WG: It’s not

WG’s D: Teser ?

WG: Thought you'd never ask

TBC

The Token Tim

will pick up that email tonight?

So we won't be seeing you in your getup on the 28th then? :o)

Hail Hail

oldtim 12.51
Is that for the first round?(i don't mean going to the bat btw) Moonbeams

dbbia
didn't know he supported the hoops...
no thanks....

Magic,

1 Hun here laughed after he asked me what songs had ben sung on Sunday. Seriously thought it was funny, even tho he was asking an Irish Catholic....No Shame at all.
I just turned away in disgust, while another openly said he wasn't worried as he knows the SPL will "Bottle it"

Should amaze me....doesn't anymore!!!!!

Mucker
Not going Home!!!!!

Moonbeams,

No probs, give me a shout when you get it.

As to the quiz, unfortunately due to other committments I won't be there......and that get-up is purely for "ceremonial" occasions :-)

HAIL! HAIL!
Token

Greenlion2.....you're right very childish (congrats though), ye widny catch me playing that game :¬)

oldtim67 and Nigel M..........congrats

Gordon_J you have mail.

Mucker is it not only a west of scotland thing?

BT

The Token Tim.1.01pm.

Your sugestion sound good,as long as he gives out the answers at the same time.

A quiz eh, or could it be yet another deliberate attempt to deflect attn away from the real issue, which is...........cant quite remember at the minute but I'm sure there is a conspiracey happening somewhere, could it be at the Winchester Club I wonder.

The Winchester Club?

"V.A.T. on the slate please, Dave.....and half a lager and lime for Terrence"

NewTricksCSC

001 Bhoy from last night,

would it be Stenhousemuir?

Therags... it might be worth a try at some point.

GL2, agree, DVD 3 is a cracker.

Token Tim, mail back to you.

ZetaBhoy, :-) A charity quiz night is a feeble attempt to divert attention from what Celtic are all about....

Zybesky from previous thread,

your Artur Leaving comment, was that a tip or a joke for those (clique) in the know?

Paul 67 - you got me there - kinda set that one up for you!

.

ZetaBhoy....

I'm Having a Kinda Joaquin Pheonix ....Day....

001ForfarCSC

Paul67,
The quiz thing for me I cannot make, not just because I canny concentrate.

I’d like to go I surely would, but I’m told I’m just not very good.

You say its deflection but I say conspiracy, because ye all just exclude lil ol me.

exclusive r us CSC

deflection ...diversion,

ach ye know whit I mean :¬)

BT

well not sure where he gets it from. One of them is from Glasgow (Not sure where) but I'm sure the first one was Aberdonian.

I would make up an excuse for them....but can't be bothered.

The fact that they find it funny and not skin crawling is bad enough, but to not even worry about what it might mean for thier club shows they are so used to this process!!!!

As someone else said last night, if nothing happened after manchester.....Why would it happen now???

Mucker
Might pray for them!

Today's glance "under the rock" on FF

Just now they are debating whether they should change the songs being sung at their game tonight in light of the weekend in particular The Famine Song.

The poll has had 213 votes so far with 171 voting they should not change their song sheet.

Responses to the poll:

-----------------

"On what grounds should it be binned? On the say so of the Septic minded, or the SPhell?"

-----------------

"if we stop singing it IMO we admitting guilt and that it is wrong to sing, and I for one can't find a single word in the song that is sectarian, racist call it what you like!
I will continue to sing it when I like! "

-----------------

"The song is factually correct and poses a simple question in a non-threatening manner.

Keep it."

-----------------

"Keep it. Make it known that we have pandered enough to people whose whole agenda is based around seeing us out of business.

Not one inch more. "

-----------------
*Response to the previous comment*
"Exactly, sing it louder than before. "

-----------------

"Agree 100% ... if we give in with this, where will it end??? "

-----------------

"At first i thought it should be only be sung again the soap dodgers and teams like hibs.

But with all the fuss it's causing i sing it at any given chance there "

-----------------

"loud and proud,

gerrit up the taigs!!"

-----------------

"Keep it.

It's "not sectarian in nature""

-----------------

"You can bet your bottom dollar that everyone will be listening to our songs tonight so Lets sing them loud and PROUD. Lets not give into these anti-Protestant scum.

Why don't you go home
Why don't you go home
The Famineis over
Why don't you go home

Why don't you go home
Why don't you go home
Alan Dick
Why don't you go home

WATP "
------------------------

Oh my do Rangers have a problem on their hands tonight

.

Vhman....

Have You Heard fae Yir Man....????

001

Apologies if this has already been talked about, I've avoided the blog since Sunday couldn't handle the negative vibes, but if SFA/SPL fail to act on the singing of "being up to their knees etc" can UEFA step in themselves? I believe they were fined and warned about singing that song before by UEFA. Or can they only act if it happens in one of their competitions? Again apologies if this has been answered already.

are they on the telly.

I here ally is in control tonight.

sweepstake on when the man with no surname gets involved.

54mins 0-0

001 bhoy.....not "yir man" it's yir mhan... doh

see you aussietims, nae sense o engerlish language.

Is Commander Collins of the Wishy Milishy on-line? Where do I go for Episodes 57 onward please?

I can't see any higher-numbered episodes on the box-set that Estadio kindly linked me to recently.

Also, episodes posted on-line aren't numbered...

Thanks

ContinuityGalCSC

Zbyszek:

Thanks for the Cech lowdown from yesterday.

Tooting Tim -

a work in progress, I'll get more transferred soon

WBG

i probably am at odds with most on here, but i feel penalising rangers via a points deduction is not fair either in a sporting sense or a practical one.

Rangers have attempted to do something about this issue, however they are at the mercies of their supporters who indulge in this appaling behaviour. Rangers probably could have spoken out more against this, but they will no doubt have been advised by the lawyers and media house that outright condemnation is equivalent to a guilty plea in the eyes of uefa. Under those circumstances ,i won't condemn them for working behind the scenes to eradicate this issue.

I think a blanket ban on Rangers fans at away games is a fairer solution. Rangers can simply refuse to accept tickets for away games without giving a reason and thereby distance themselves from the problem. Should they have problems at Ibrox, then they will have to deal with that or face further sanctions.

We have to accept evenhandedness here. I don't want Celtic, who's record is far better in this regard, to face a points deduction because a couple of dozen fans sing something that is plainly wrong, and continue to do so after warnings. We already are walking a tightrope in European terms, because of the actions of 2 idiots out of a combined attendance of 120,000 in 2 games.

The SPL have a difficult problem to solve here. I want them to solve it in a way , that doesnt descend into open season on our support via a tit for tat media campaign. Whilst there is an element of knee jerk "we're being picked on" from the Rangers management, they know they have a much worse problem than any other team and that something has to be done. The only step left to them is to refuse to accept away tickets. That and telling David Edgar to stop behaving like a stereotypical adolescent in denial.

Oldtim (from last thread) - four to a team is the rule! If your team has a couple extra then every other team will demand the same!

Oldtim/ Pablo - your team is currently under the name of TBD. Surely you can come up with a better name?

The Winchester Club is a very nice venue, which they have given us for free and even put on a drinks promotion (selected drafts at £2 per pint). Just a wee warning - I'm sure the staff have heard all of the jokes about the name.

The Token Tim - Good idea about posting the questions after the event. Will look into doing this - and will also post some pictures from the night.

Gordon/The Token Tim

I'll be able to give you the questions as a word document which can then be posted on here along with the results/photies

Qk

There but for the grace of God go i.

How blind are we.

Celtic have their own problems with sectarian chanting.

We will be hammered ,just like them,if they are indeed hammered.

If it's good for the goose.

Before someone comes back with ,but they are worse than an us.

It doesn't matter.
Poison is poison.

ZetaBhoy 1:19 PM

Ha, ha. It was a joke to Paul's comment. Me too, heard so many times about Artur Boruc departure that I called him Artur Leaving instead of Artur Boruc. For sure you will hear that news again before next transfer window. I can bet great money against his real departure this summer.

TootingTim

You are welcome.

TinyTim
You're right!
People in glass houses etc.

We have an unsavoury minority that still bang on about TBOTOB and other such songs.
Now I know the aurguments well, they're not sectarian songs, where is there a single sectarian word in our songs? The Soldiers Song is a National Anthem etc etc.

However the SPL, the SFA and UEFA may decree that the songs are offensive in the circumstances they are sung at Celtic Park and at away venues.

I know what will happen next - lots of posters will come on ranting about freedom of speech. The fact is, if people find some of our songs to be offensive then we may very well find that we're tarred with the same brush as the Rankers.

Before anyone accuses me of being a closet Hun (again) - I'm not! I'm from a strong RC and Irish background, season ticket holder and fan for 51 years.

Oldtim67 @ 1.14pm :-)

Gordon_J/Quizking, Excellent! Cheers guys

HAIL! HAIL!
Token

TBD for a quiz name hmmmmmmm let's see:

The Bah Drunkdugs

There By Dissent

Three Bloody Drunkards :¬)

The Bleedin Dobbers

c'mon CQN'ers , help them out!

Benjybhoy

Are you in the Copeland Rd or Govan ?

:-)

benjybhoy & Tiny Tim, because some people don't like the politics of a song doesn't mean they can automatically brand it sectarian.

I don't like rule britannia or gstq but they are not sectarian and they can burst their lungs on them.

The British Diehards ?

benjybhoy

One mans meat is another mans poison.

I´m looking forward to the day that the SPL the SFA and UEFA decree the singing of the Irish national anthem to be offensive.

Wonderful stuff!

The day that UEFA adopt an island monkey mentality

capfirmlyinhandstaringatthefloorCSC

Benjybhoy

I'm from a strong RC and Irish background, season ticket holder at Ibrox and fan for 51 years. Really. :o)

Hail Hail

bjmac03
Investors Lounge Celtic Park - middle lounge (was the smoking liunge).

Moonbeams wet dream
Investors Lounge Celtic Park - middle lounge (was the smoking lounge).

are the seats still heated there Benjybhoy ?

bjmac03
No during wee Fergus's time the heating elements were removed - next 'is he a Tim' question please?

vmhan

You are wrong. Is it only me who knows?
TBD means "Three Beautifull Dandies" They will be the best team. My fingers are crossed for them. Sorry guys.
"Dandy, Dandy,
Where you gonna go now?
Who you gonna run to?"

Benjybhoy, the :-) in my original comment was to indicate I was joking.

I also previously sat over there, now in main stand. Couldn't stand the stampede for a free pie at half time :-)

Tam Cowan from today's Daily Ranger...

"Meanwhile, a new world record for group kissing has been set in Mexico City by 39,897 people.

The Scottish record is a mere 65 - set at the last Ibrox press conference hosted by Sir David Murray."

Good to see not every journalist (loosely applied term, I know) is in his back pocket!

By penang_bhoy on February 18, 2009 12:11 PM
Previous blog

Excellent analysis and if they do not change they will wither and die.

benjybhoy,

Ok then as you ask, where in parkhead, as in what section, do you sit?

HAIL! HAIL!
Token

PS - Please don't let me down on this!

Malcolm,

to be fair to Cowan, he is one of those rare breed of murderwell supporters who dislike both Celtic and rangers equally (well almost equally, but you know what I mean).

HAIL! HAIL!
Token

I choose not to sing the soldier song, BOTOB, etc.

Whilst i am quite confident that these songs are not sectarian or racist, I know that others can be offended by them, & as there are plenty of other songs we can sing, take the view that we would be better taking them completely out of our play list.

Others I know feel strongly that there is no reason why we should not sing songs that are lawful, & part of our heritage.

Whatever view one takes on this, I don't think that we are at any serious risk of being tarred with the same brush as Rangers, except of course by the Scottish media. These songs are not the same as they sing, & as Awe Naw points out, the notion that the national anthem of a fellow EU country is discriminatory or unlawful is patently absurd.

ZetaBhoy, you did, thanks.

Vmhan, if you “canny concentrate” and are “just not very good”, you’ll fit in fine.

RogueLeader, the “we’re right, everyone else is wrong” attitude is both common and very dangerous.

Whether they are right or wrong will not determine their fate, only the wise will prevail.

Owen, Uefa have no remit.

Barcabhoy, totally agree. A points deduction is not on the agenda and will only become an option after stands have been shut and tickets denied.

benjybhoy, Celtic have told the SPL and SFA that the Soldiers Song is beyond objection and have insisted on fans rights to sing it.

I believe Gstq has a line in it "rebellious Scots to crush" ? Is that not another one of their racist chants :-)

Sing songs about Celtic! :o)

We have plenty of them :o)

They celebrate our team, our players, our fans :o)

Nothing wrong with other more traditional ditties either but I'm at a football match supporting my team and I would rather sing songs about them!

By Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo on February 18, 2009 12:20 PM

I only read your post in the context of stopping TFS and my reply was only to add some background on the process for handling that.

On the other issue I have not looked at the events deeply enough to have a solid opinion but I think that Celtic have some work of their own to do in terms of improving communications with their fans. I think that kack handed attempts at enforcing the club's "security - lets not offend policy" without getting the support to buy into or at least question the need some of the measures for it is foolish and counter productive. I'm copying pasting something I posted on Celtic Underground on trust and communication that I have already posted on here.

It is a subject deserving a blog in its own right as it gets lost in everything else but no one in Celtic Cyberspace seems to want to run with it.

You will see how it ties in with your point about unequal handling. All I'm saying on that is Celtic might be ready to act as robustly with the SPL on the TFS front as they have done with their own fans when the time comes to do so. It is an explanation for the uneven handling but I think it goes deeper than that and is about how they approach their own fans and the need to communicate better with us or risk alienating a wedge of the support.

Taken from Celtic Underground

Time To Talk. Time To Trust.
Written by Auldheid
Wednesday, 11 February 2009
Celtic used to have a message board on their official web site. It has gone and I wonder why? The nearest medium for communicating with fans is on the Celtic View page called tictalk@celticfc.co.ukThis e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it but it is an e mail facility and you have to dig deep to find it. So why did the message board go and what does the narrow communication channel say about Celtic’s policy when it comes to communicating with the support, particularly in cyberspace?

I have my own ideas why the message board might have failed and it is all to do with the genesis of on line Celtic web sites. Some of the longer established ones come with an underlying legacy of antagonism against the Board or Celtic the Establishment. There were good reasons for that antagonism because Celtic in terms of its professional administration were frankly unprofessional. I think they have made great strides in that aspect but there is always room for improvement.

However whilst the improvements have resulted in less harsh condemnation and outright antagonism (generally speaking) of what Celtic did and do, the over all tone is still of criticism.

In any relationship a partner being constantly criticised learns to withdraw and not trust anything to the criticiser. That causes the criticiser who can exist only to criticise to make up things to criticise about and, this is very important, not to believe what the other partner does choose to share.

That in my opinion is why the message board on The Celtic Official Web Site was probably dropped, not from actual lack of use but because it was perceived by untrusting users as a Celtic PLC mouthpiece (even if it wasn't) causing low usage.

The other party (Celtic) being on the receiving end of criticism and having lost trust in the motivation of the critics was probably relieved at the divorce.

That is how I see how the relationship with Celtic and Celtic cyberspace has developed or more accurately has not developed. But as in any relationship breakdown it takes two not to tango and both parties take a share of the responsibility. At the time it was the other party who was to blame but as time passes and maturity hopefully grows each party can be honest about admitting their own responsibility.

That is why I think now is the time to talk about regaining trust. The ONLY way to do that is to start trusting and start talking. One of the partners has to say this relationship has broken down (whilst both are simultaneously thinking "in spite of all I have done for you"). Why and how did it happen? Can we replace something that did not work with something that can?

Since Celtic cyberspace does not speak with one voice and tends to be more interested in maintaining the status quo as far as I can see and also appears to actually enjoy the odd squabble between themselves (its a “Celtic” thing with a hard C that the movie The Commitments most excellently captures) then the lead has to come from Celtic.
They need to take the lead. For this reason I suggest that as part of their Strategy Review they include an exercise to look at building a useful interactive communication mechanism to allow them and the support to work better together on a shared vision for Celtic over the coming years.

There is much good out there in Celtic Cyberspace to draw on. CQN is an interesting example of a very limited development of an interactive means of communication. There is a belief (and I have no idea if it is true or not) that Celtic make use of it as a conduit to cyberspace. It is a sort of half way house but it still suffers from not having enough information that it can feed back to the support to make them better informed. In any case I am sure it is not what Paul67 set out to do and it will take more than one man to manage, especially in their spare time. CQN has added some translucency and that is something Paul can be very proud of but to get the relationship on an even and more productive keel, more transparency is needed.

Keep the Faith has an excellent media watching role that regularly challenges the way the media portrays all things Celtic. Celtic would do well to find a way of making use of that without impinging on KTF’s independence

The Kerrydale Street message board covers the ridiculous (and ridiculously funny) to the sublime. It is a smorgasbord of the delectable and the daft. It is where the irrational can be exposed and the rational encouraged by being given the kind of information that guides reason.

E Tims makes the headlines. The Rumour Mill has global appeal and the site itself is like a miniature sun around which cyberspace views and opinions coalesce like planets taking form. Its articles whether you agree with them or not are passed around cyberspace and read universally. Like all Celtic Cyberspace it both honestly informs/misinforms new opinions in Celtic Cyberspace depending on the information it has to work on.

I am sure there are many good things on other Celtic sites that can serve the common good of Celtic without giving up a scintilla of independence but I have limited my comments to those with whom I am most familiar.

With this in mind , and acknowledging that I am second guessing what a communications review would recommend, the new communication mechanism has to be seen as an INDEPENDENT interlocutor sifting and analysis what cyberspace is saying but also sifting what a more trusting Celtic PLC are saying or providing.

There are ideas which take hold in cyberspace that if unchallenged become accepted, become real in some folk's minds and drive frustrations. These ideas if shown to be incorrect will not take hold and frustrations based on ideas or notions that are not real will fall or disappear.

Doing this will also rob the media of the means of portraying the Celtic support us as divided.

It’s not about spin, it’s about not spinning, it’s about two way sharing of one’s own truth with another’s perception of it so that greater understanding and acceptance of the other partner in the relationship grows and as a result so does the relationship. Here is a story to illustrate what I mean based on something John Powell SJ wrote:.

Two men live side by side in semis and share a back garden. A fence divides the gardens. It is dark green on one side and light green on the other. Mr Dark Green thinks the fence is all dark green. Mr Light Green thinks it is all light green. It is only when they talk and Mr Dark Green invites Mr Light Green in to his garden that they discover the truth that the fence is dark green on one side and light green on the other. As a result of sharing they are more enlightened than when they ignored each other.

It is time for Mr Celtic to invite Mr Celtic Cyberspace into his garden. It’s time to talk, time to trust.

penang_bhoy

The day i stop singing the national anthem of my country because some hun scum bag is offended by it is the day hell freezes over.

Hail Hail

Penang Bhoy et al,

Don't kid yourself that we won't get tarred with the same brush as them, we do, and not just by the Scottish meedja!

I have been asked many, many times over the years by English, and to a lesser extent, Welsh people as to why we (Celtic fans) sing about terrorists and been told that they don't want "us" as in the plural (or O** F***) down there in their leagues spreading "our" bile and religious hatred. When you try to explain, they don't listen or don't want to listen and say "you are as bad as each other".

In fact I attended the Everton v Bolton match at Goodison just the other week and whilst the guys I were with were mainly pro-Celtic, some of them were of this opinion too. Whilst I did my best to explain and change their thinking it was not easy!

I'll hazard a guess that I am not the only one on here who has faced these type of questions or pre-judged thinking either!

We have to face the fact that many people North and South of the Border, and elsewhere, DO consider us to be opposite sides of the same coin, even allowing for the much publicised difference in our respective behaviour whilst on European/Testimonial duties.

It will take a lot of PR, from not only the fans, but also the Club to actually try to instill into the wider public perception esp in England and beyond, that we are not joined at the hip to them!

HAIL! HAIL!
Token

Paul67
Comments below - I didn't know that.
benjybhoy, Celtic have told the SPL and SFA that the Soldiers Song is beyond objection and have insisted on fans rights to sing it.

Have the SPL received the delegate's report yet?

Is this thing War & Peace or are they just trying to figure out what to do (e.g. applying pressure to delegate not to mention it)?

I'd have thought an experienced delegate could write a report by Monday afternoon at the latest.

By Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo on February 18, 2009 12:20 PM

I only read your post in the context of stopping TFS and my reply was only to add some background on the process for handling that.

On the other issue I have not looked at the events deeply enough to have a solid opinion but I think that Celtic have some work of their own to do in terms of improving communications with their fans. I think that kack handed attempts at enforcing the club's "security - lets not offend policy" without getting the support to buy into or at least question the need some of the measures for it is foolish and counter productive. I'm copying pasting something I posted on Celtic Underground on trust and communication that I have already posted on here.

It is a subject deserving a blog in its own right as it gets lost in everything else but no one in Celtic Cyberspace seems to want to run with it.

You will see how it ties in with your point about unequal handling. All I'm saying on that is Celtic might be ready to act as robustly with the SPL on the TFS front as they have done with their own fans when the time comes to do so. It is an explanation for the uneven handling but I think it goes deeper than that and is about how they approach their own fans and the need to communicate better with us or risk alienating a wedge of the support.

Taken from Celtic Underground

Time To Talk. Time To Trust.
Written by Auldheid
Wednesday, 11 February 2009
Celtic used to have a message board on their official web site. It has gone and I wonder why? The nearest medium for communicating with fans is on the Celtic View page called tictalk@celticfc.co.ukThis e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it but it is an e mail facility and you have to dig deep to find it. So why did the message board go and what does the narrow communication channel say about Celtic’s policy when it comes to communicating with the support, particularly in cyberspace?

I have my own ideas why the message board might have failed and it is all to do with the genesis of on line Celtic web sites. Some of the longer established ones come with an underlying legacy of antagonism against the Board or Celtic the Establishment. There were good reasons for that antagonism because Celtic in terms of its professional administration were frankly unprofessional. I think they have made great strides in that aspect but there is always room for improvement.

However whilst the improvements have resulted in less harsh condemnation and outright antagonism (generally speaking) of what Celtic did and do, the over all tone is still of criticism.

In any relationship a partner being constantly criticised learns to withdraw and not trust anything to the criticiser. That causes the criticiser who can exist only to criticise to make up things to criticise about and, this is very important, not to believe what the other partner does choose to share.

That in my opinion is why the message board on The Celtic Official Web Site was probably dropped, not from actual lack of use but because it was perceived by untrusting users as a Celtic PLC mouthpiece (even if it wasn't) causing low usage.

The other party (Celtic) being on the receiving end of criticism and having lost trust in the motivation of the critics was probably relieved at the divorce.

That is how I see how the relationship with Celtic and Celtic cyberspace has developed or more accurately has not developed. But as in any relationship breakdown it takes two not to tango and both parties take a share of the responsibility. At the time it was the other party who was to blame but as time passes and maturity hopefully grows each party can be honest about admitting their own responsibility.

That is why I think now is the time to talk about regaining trust. The ONLY way to do that is to start trusting and start talking. One of the partners has to say this relationship has broken down (whilst both are simultaneously thinking "in spite of all I have done for you"). Why and how did it happen? Can we replace something that did not work with something that can?

Since Celtic cyberspace does not speak with one voice and tends to be more interested in maintaining the status quo as far as I can see and also appears to actually enjoy the odd squabble between themselves (its a “Celtic” thing with a hard C that the movie The Commitments most excellently captures) then the lead has to come from Celtic.
They need to take the lead. For this reason I suggest that as part of their Strategy Review they include an exercise to look at building a useful interactive communication mechanism to allow them and the support to work better together on a shared vision for Celtic over the coming years.

There is much good out there in Celtic Cyberspace to draw on. CQN is an interesting example of a very limited development of an interactive means of communication. There is a belief (and I have no idea if it is true or not) that Celtic make use of it as a conduit to cyberspace. It is a sort of half way house but it still suffers from not having enough information that it can feed back to the support to make them better informed. In any case I am sure it is not what Paul67 set out to do and it will take more than one man to manage, especially in their spare time. CQN has added some translucency and that is something Paul can be very proud of but to get the relationship on an even and more productive keel, more transparency is needed.

Keep the Faith has an excellent media watching role that regularly challenges the way the media portrays all things Celtic. Celtic would do well to find a way of making use of that without impinging on KTF’s independence

The Kerrydale Street message board covers the ridiculous (and ridiculously funny) to the sublime. It is a smorgasbord of the delectable and the daft. It is where the irrational can be exposed and the rational encouraged by being given the kind of information that guides reason.

E Tims makes the headlines. The Rumour Mill has global appeal and the site itself is like a miniature sun around which cyberspace views and opinions coalesce like planets taking form. Its articles whether you agree with them or not are passed around cyberspace and read universally. Like all Celtic Cyberspace it both honestly informs/misinforms new opinions in Celtic Cyberspace depending on the information it has to work on.

I am sure there are many good things on other Celtic sites that can serve the common good of Celtic without giving up a scintilla of independence but I have limited my comments to those with whom I am most familiar.

With this in mind , and acknowledging that I am second guessing what a communications review would recommend, the new communication mechanism has to be seen as an INDEPENDENT interlocutor sifting and analysis what cyberspace is saying but also sifting what a more trusting Celtic PLC are saying or providing.

There are ideas which take hold in cyberspace that if unchallenged become accepted, become real in some folk's minds and drive frustrations. These ideas if shown to be incorrect will not take hold and frustrations based on ideas or notions that are not real will fall or disappear.

Doing this will also rob the media of the means of portraying the Celtic support us as divided.

It’s not about spin, it’s about not spinning, it’s about two way sharing of one’s own truth with another’s perception of it so that greater understanding and acceptance of the other partner in the relationship grows and as a result so does the relationship. Here is a story to illustrate what I mean based on something John Powell SJ wrote:.

Two men live side by side in semis and share a back garden. A fence divides the gardens. It is dark green on one side and light green on the other. Mr Dark Green thinks the fence is all dark green. Mr Light Green thinks it is all light green. It is only when they talk and Mr Dark Green invites Mr Light Green in to his garden that they discover the truth that the fence is dark green on one side and light green on the other. As a result of sharing they are more enlightened than when they ignored each other.

It is time for Mr Celtic to invite Mr Celtic Cyberspace into his garden. It’s time to talk, time to trust.

And another question, do these reports ever become public?

Or if not public, do SPL members get to see them?

jinkysboy,
I'm still waiting for the fruits of your labour, did the dug chew it all up :oD
Anyroadup, I'll not be a the quiz night but wouldnt mind donating to the kano fund, could someone send me the details.

benjybhoy, are you still trying to muddy the water on whats offensive and illegal, is it any wonder people get confused about your allegances.

the treble will have to do

hail hail

The Token Tim

I am aware that there is a degree of truth in what you say. That is one of the reasons that I choose not to sing these types of songs.

However, as the "troubles" in Ireland recede in the memory of most down south, then that problem of perception recedes.

The point i am making is that whilst perceptions may be difficult to alter, & depend to an extent one what the media (UK & scottish) say, the factual reality is that as these songs are not sectarian, racist, or discriminatory, we can if we choose continue to sing them, & at no risk of punishment from UEFA.

canamalar,

E-mail me at cqnquiz@gmail.com for the details. And thanks.

penang_bhoy

There is no reason at all why anyone should sing the Soldiers Song at a Celtic match - except if it was a European game and the opposition were from ROI.It is a national anthem and therefore has a specila place and a particular time to be sung. Such occasions would be state occasions - when the national team plays, national finals, etc. The singing of the National Anthem is always accompanied by an official band.

In Ireland the Soldiers Song in only sung - officially - at such occasions as outlined above. Even at International rugby, soccer or All Ireland Finals it is sung ONLY at the beginning of the game. That is how it should be. Fans at these games DO NOT sing it at any other time. It should not be used to antagonise others. That is disrespectful both to visitors, hosts and the anthem itself.

An Lorgain

Lubo1977,

Im not sure if they're made public (probably not) but after the SPL have reviewed them they'll send a copy to both celtic and rangers and ask them to comment.

Lets hope Dr John 'The Rottwieler' Reid does us a turn n gets tore into them.

Auldheid,

The custodians of Celtic do want to talk to the supporters they are supporters themselves after all. They dont want to elicit the opinions of Celtic fans as they know their own opinions and therefore do not need to talk. As for the extent of the alienation the take up on season ticket sales for next season will tell us something. The sad thing is and it is an indication of the competence and conscience of our custodians that this is the only thing that may bring some influence to bear. If the uptake is reduced they will blame the credit crunch. Even if we were to go on and win the treble and if they competently replaced Naka and Boruc and added a player of quality for the CL campaign. I admire your pessimism btw

Hail Hail

RBS, That Wishaw

Cat: A Retreat ?

Boynita: Yes, he says he does it annually just before Lent to prepare himself for the Holy Season.

C: I thought he spent his Holy Season in G40 watching The Great Underachievers of Parkhead

B: The Retreat only lasts a week and he says he’ll give me a definitive answer on his return.

C: Where does this Retreat take place, Boynita ?

B: Nunraw Abbey I think he mentioned

C: And you actually BELIEVE he’s there just now ?

B: Oh yes. I gave him some Boots vouchers to help him with his…er… toiletries

C: Toiletries ?. I thought monks lived in austerity.

B: No, these ones are in East Lothian, Cat.

TBC

Lurgan53

Thats not really the point. We are not in Ireland ;-)

There is no lawful reason why we should not sing it.

I would prefer that we chose not to do so, & would be happy never to hear ir again at a celtic match, but thats quite different to saying that it cannot ce sung.

Lurgan53,

Have to disagree with you vehemently.

I agree with everything in your last post except "It should not be used to antagonise others"

If anybody is even remotely antagonised by it then they should be made to listen to it on an infinite loop at full volume until they have sorted out their condition.

Hail Hail

By lubo1977 on February 18, 2009 2:55 PM
My guess, and it is only that, is that this report dynamites Rangers claim to have done everything possible and that is why it is being treated with kid gloves.

The SPL themselves are now under the microscope they had hoped the threat of arrest would avoid, so they need to be very careful how they deal with it.

As a relevant aside its is not just TFS. The chant at Scott Brown is sectarian using the same criteria that was used to define "Up to our kness in fenian blood" as sectarian so it is charges of both sectarianism AND racism that the Rangers support face.

But it is not the support in the dock, it is Rangers, and both the numbers and the nature of Sunday's offerings at the very least raise questions about whether Rangers have done all that they can and if the police should have made many more arrests than they did before Sunday. Only two out of around five games that TFS was heard at.

It is going to take time to unfold or unravel depending on how you look at it unless of course it all somehow gets sucked into the same black hole that swallowed the consequences of Rangers failing to sell anyone in the transfer window.

However I think there is too much external interest, particulary from the Irish Government and Europe whose policy on racism in sport it offends for this to get buried.

Auldheid,

Thanks for the reply, I agree with your view.

Form a logistical view though I'm interetsed in where we are in the process. Has the delegate written the report and submitted it to the SPL? You'd think he's had plenty of time now. The SPL have said they will not comment on a report until they've received it...can they comment now?

My main worry is if the report hasn't been formally submitted to the SPL then the more chance there is the delegate will be influenced in what he reports.

Very, very long and interesting article about Celtic Glasgow on Legia Warsaw fans website. If you wish take few minutes to see the pictures e.t.c

I don't know who wrote it but the story about Celtic was told by few Celtic fans who did see Legia game against Wisla Krakow. Their names are below the article. Below the article you can find the comments.

Link to the article about Celtic Glasgow on Legia website.

http://www.legialive.pl/news/29313_Fani_Celtiku_pod_wrazeniem_atmosfery_na_Lazienkowskiej.html

By Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo on February 18, 2009 3:12 PM
I would hope so. There are benefits to the Celtic Entity from doing so. Its the mechanism that is missing imo.

I'm a great believer, as the result of experience allied to infinite patience, stubborness and tenacity of Jack Russellesque dimensions, in "What you see is what you get."

Ideas are like seeds, some are good but fall on stony ground, some are bad and fall on fertile ground, grow but wither, some are good, fall on fertile ground and bloom.

The trick is not to get attached to wanting to be around to see what blooms and what withers. It is nice to see a good idea take hold and bloom, but it is more important that it eventually does than being around to see it happen.

Please ... not the songs debate again.

If anyone who can't make the quiz wishes to make a donation to our fund for Kano, please e-mail me at cqnquiz@gmail.com

Lubo1977
Here is something from the previous blog slightly amended that might help answer your question.

By Auldheid on February 18, 2009 12:08 PM
By Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo on February 18, 2009 11:52 AM

I think a clue to what is happening or not might be in a report in the Scotsman

http://sport.scotsman.com/sport/Rangers39-fate-over-39Famine-Song39.4990158.jp

that says the SPL are waiting for the delegate's report and do not wish to say anything for fear it would jeopardise their due process.

There is a system in place for dealing with this and Celtic will be watching it but not want to unbalance it.

The Scotsman said

Published Date: 18 February 2009
By Stephen Halliday
THE Scottish Premier League has played down suggestions it is poised to take action against Rangers for alleged sectarian chanting by some of their supporters during last Sunday's Old Firm fixture at Celtic Park.
It is understood that SPL match delegate Alan Dick will mention instances of songs and chants, including the controversial 'Famine Song', in his official report on the game which is expected to arrive at the governing body's Hampden offices today.

Dick, the former Motherwell and Partick Thistle secretary, previously reported Rangers supporters to the SPL for sectarian chants during the match against Inverness at the Caledonian Stadium in August 2007.

On that occasion, no disciplinary proceedings were raised by the SPL board following an investigation which noted the "extensive steps" taken by Rangers in campaigning against the element of its support engaging in discriminatory chanting or singing.

Rangers were also informed that a further occurrence of unacceptable conduct on the part of its fans "may lead to a reference to an SPL Commission and the risk of sanctions against the club."

Possible punishments include a fine or even the docking of points, but the SPL last night remained determined not to prejudice their own disciplinary procedure.
"This is all hearsay at the moment," said an SPL spokesman. "We have not seen the match delegate's report which we would expect to receive in the next 24 hours.

"As with a delegate's report from any of our fixtures, if there is an issue with crowd behaviour highlighted, then we will cross-check the details with the police in charge of the match and also speak to the clubs involved.

"We would then write to the clubs for further information before putting it to our board to consider whether there has been a breach of SPL rules."

End

There was a bit more about the RST response but its more of the same old whataboutery so not repeating it.

benjybhoy,

said in jest. note the smiley. :o)

hail hail

P.S.

Auldheid,

I made a massive mistake in the first sentence in my last post. It should have read

"The custodians of Celtic do NOT want to talk to the supporters they are supporters themselves after all

They haven´t the slightest interest in any of that. They are only interested in the kudos and the bottom line. Repeat after me kudos and the bottom line.

I´d prefer a grim reaper analogy myself ;-)

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iXBXaO9E0jAYTXtxjq_27PeC0uXA

Ulster-Celt

What is wrong with Kano ?
And how does cash provide comfort for him.

Maybe I'm out of step with a lot of poster's but personally i dont give a fig about what the Hun's sing, never have or never will.

corkcelt

half the family wir in cork at the weekend

A wildlife park or sumthin

Auldheid,

Thanks for that. Very interesting - I actually think that's a flawed process.

The "neutral" delegate should write his report without consulting the police and the clubs (where their version of events could influence his / her report). The report should be submitted to the SPL who can then discuss any points with the police and the clubs. Vested interests shouldn't have the opportunity to input to a neutral report, they will have their chance to answer any queries once the report is formally submitted.

Lurgan

On the whole I agree with what you say, but as Awe Naw said if someone antagonised by it, they have the problem not us.

Plus the examples you give of Rugby games, Internationals and GAA games. At these events the opposition do not sing songs at you decrying the nation of your birth, your ancestors or possible family and club. So in singing the song could it be those who do are trying to cement thier pride for the country which the opposition seek to tarnish for no right or just reason?

DD

whitedoghunch. That would be Fota Wild Life Park. Its nice down there, i bring the grandcildren there from time to time.

By barcabhoy on February 18, 2009 1:46 PM

Previous blog

I doubt it has reached the points deduction stage yet and first step would be a match ban. I thought at home rather than away as that would draw decent Rangers supporters into the issue more.

I disagree that Rangers have done everything. They took the line of least resistance and the results are evidence that they have done so.
The deck chairs are being rearranged whilst the ship is getting nearer to Calais.

They have less time (3.5Months) than they had (5Mnths)to convince the EU and UEFA that they have eradicated both racism and sectarianism in their away support to a degree sufficient enough to convince UEFA it will not happen in Europe. Say they got drawn against a team from Eire?

A bit of background info: The Irish MSP who visited Scotland Eoin Ryan to discuss TFS with the Scottish Government raised the matter of TFS with the EU Parliament.

http://www.eoinryan.ie/about-eoin/speeches/78-plenary-speech-on-racism-on-football

He did so apart from being Irish because he worked with Ivo Belet on the production of the report on The Future of Professional Football in Europe. The recomendations of this report including those on racism were adopted by the EU Parliament as part of its sports policy as set out in the White Paper on Sport. So not only does he have an interest as a representative of Ireland he knows the policy and will know the buttons to press if effectrive action is not taken.

He is the guy Rangers will have to convince they have done all they can to eradicate TFS if it continues up to the end of the season for he will have UEFA's ear because the EU made it quite clear UEFA is bound by EU Law and he helped set the policy for sport under EU law.

Interesting eh?

By lubo1977 on February 18, 2009 3:51 PM
I re read that and I think he does write it independently. The original report is cross checked for accuracy with police and clubs. As long as all views are included the judges/SPL board can make up their own minds. Have I missed something? Remember to the journalists interpretation is all we are going on but I'm taking that as truthful (on this occasion :)

re the "Rangers have done everything they can" argument-

complete & utter tosh!

Here is my take on it (posted at the end of the last thread)-

Gordon_J

You are absolutely right. So far as i am aware, no-one at rangers has come out & unequivocally condemned these songs as being plain wrong.

The signals from the club support the "we are being picked on unfairly" mentality that so many of the Rangers supporters have, & rather than the club "doing everything in its power" to deal with the sectarian/racism problem, that the media constantly tell us they are doing, in reality, the club are as complicit as their fans.

If Rangers start to condemn their fans actions as wrong, unacceptable, & make it clear that anyone singing these songs will get a life ban, then maybe you could say that they were doing all they can to eradicate a deep seated cancer that they have in their support.

Will they do so?

What do you think.

It seems to me that there are 2 factors at work. The first is the commercial one. If Rangers are skint now, just how bad would things get if they were to alienate some/most of their fans? On the "turkeys don't vote for Xmas" principle, I accept that murray & the club are caught between a rock & a hard place on this.

That though does not explain why Murray did very little to adress the problem during periods where he, & the club, appeared to be rolling in cash.

Which brings me to the second factor...

Namely, that those involved, & in power, at Rangers have no interest in really cracking down on the sectarianism & racism amongst their supporters because they, to a large extent, think the same, or at least have some sympathy with the protestant superiority syndrome at the club, which even Smith has admitted surrounds Rangers.

No-one that is not already a Rangers fan would want to get involved with a club that is synonymous with the Manchester riot; has had UEFA sanctions as a result of recent bigotry by the fans; is subject to police investigations re the fans behaviour; invariably causes problems on away European games; & has such an association with extreme British nationalism & white supremacism as Rangers have.

Therein lies the problem. If you are not a hun, you will want nothing to do with them. If you are a hun, then you probably don't think there is anything fundamentally wrong with the club, its support, or its "traditions".

Rangers will never change. Hopefully however, as society continues to evolve, they will wither & die.

benjybhoy,

Please ignore my comment addressed to you at 2.27pm today.

I was actually going to use your reply (regardless of it's content) and hijack it to raise one of my own personal bugbear's re. the name of our stadium/ground.

You may gather what it is based upon the phraseology of my question if you can be bothered looking, but I wouldn't go out of your way to do so, as to be honest, there are bigger issues at the moment than one of my own annoyance!

HAIL! HAIL!
Token

PS - For what it is worth, I do Not think you are a hun

By penang_bhoy on February 18, 2009 4:03 PM

Yes I read that on the previous blog and thought it an excellent analysis (only because it is similar to one I penned elsewhere :))- no it is spot on).

I think if they do not change they will wither and die as an anachronism.

I also gave pratical reasons to BarcaBoy why it was a mistake.

Auldheid

Just re-read myself and you're 100% correct. It's the SPL who cross check with police / clubs, not the delegate.

I'll get off my high horse now!

It does leave the question though, if the delegate doesn't have to cross check any details with anyone, why is it taking him so long to write the report? I assume he's getting paod for this? Therefore he should be working to a deadline....not just a "get it to us whenever you can mate!"

By Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo on February 18, 2009 3:39 PM

LOL then there is not even a very very very thin dime between us.

I'm off to read your post earlier aboutteams merging. I heard Broadfoot on Clyde mention it last night. An interesting and long overdue development.

penang_bhoy -

Rangers have come out and said that their fans should stop singing or chanting various ditties because it could cost them (Rangers) cash in the way of fines / stand closures, or could lead to them losing points, or being kicked out of Europe.

They have never said what any right thinking person or organisation would say -

That those utterances are wrong, that they are disgusting, that they are immoral, that they are not what is considered acceptable by any civilised human being.

Rangers are bankrupt, morally as well as financially. The quicker they sink into their own quagmire, never to be seen again, the better as far as I am concerned.

Curly

Don't really want to get dragged into the "Songs Debate" again as I have voiced my opinion against Botob and SS and agree with Penang Bhoy and Lurgan.
However, I feel when some fans burst into action with these songs it's as if it's a retaliatory gesture and the majority of the minority who are singing these particular songs, know the Chorus and nothing else. I know all the words to both but CELTIC PARK is not the place and although I've said it till I'm BLUE[arghh!!]in the face the powers that be are waiting till they come up with a solution that will drag us into the same box. Glad to say this wasn't the case where I was sitting on Sunday and proud that 99.9% of Celtic fans didn't rise to the bait from the Hordes in that Corner. Ban them I say!! Maybe that will be the solution from the spl/sfa and stop both sets of fans from travelling to opposing grounds they will then be seen to be even handed, not from our perspective I may add.

Hail, Hail.

By curly on February 18, 2009 4:11 PM

I can well understand that but as supporters of an institution based on charity are we not called on to rise above that and reach out to the poor misguided souls if any sign of change emerged?

Tin hat, flack jacket, tank in concrete bunker etc

JTT, I received your cheque for £100 for the charity fund today, as promised on the blog. Many thanks.

Lurgan53 on February 18, 2009 3:09 PM

Thank God for a bit of respect for the Anthem.

The manner in which it is sung at Celtic matches is disrespectful,if only for the God Bless the Pope add-on.

I find that offensive as a Catholic, as I believe that it is not chanted for any respect for the Pope, but as what apparently is known as a GIRUY to other people.

Therefore,I find the bastardising of the Anthem offensive to Ireland and also the Catholics, A double whammy.

Tin Beretta on.

Auldheid -

Well . . . . . mibees aye, . . . . . but in their case, NAW

Yurcl

By lubo1977 on February 18, 2009 4:10 PM
Patience, patience. He has to get it spot on or it might get dropped on a technicality - like it was not written in blue ink.

@ Malcolm 2:25 PM

Tam Cowan from today's Daily Ranger...

"Meanwhile, a new world record for group kissing has been set in Mexico City by 39,897 people.

The Scottish record is a mere 65 - set at the last Ibrox press conference hosted by Sir David Murray."

Malcolm, the difference is the Mexicans were kissing each other on the mouth...

By curly on February 18, 2009 4:23 PM

Thank you for being gentle with me lol.

JTT,

Fair play to you mate as per Paul67's post @ 4.18pm.......in saying that said cheque has yet to clear :-)

HAIL! HAIL!
Token

thomthetim

I took my other half to a few away games and being from deeepest Mayo she was amazed at how the Celtic fans sung the anthem - she actually said she felt it was used a bit disrespectfully. Indeed I myself feel a tad like this when its sang at the games and in pubs before and after games if people are singing it I tend to sing it in Irish as I feel this is the way its intended and not as a GIRUY. But in y earlier post I alluded to the fact many people do sing as a retaliatory act.

DD

corkcelt

the girls loved it.

billyimatim

Your right but the powers that be waiting to hammer us for that 0.1%

I said it last night the SFA/SPL will bottle it until they get us and them and IMO thats what there hidden agenda is. Slap both teams with a 10/20/30/pts deficit tongue in cheek "we'll have a good league this year chaps"They wont do anything this year so it would be at the start of our 5 IAR campaign.Two birds with one stone.Tfod would always have the referees to fall back on.
Going to take the tablets thats the paranoia setting in again.

Y I C.

Where's Kojo these days?

A question for a quiz?

Name the Tory cabinet minister(the model for Rex Mottram in Waugh`s Brideshead Revisited) whose father was a Fenian,a founder member of the GAA and in whose honour a GAA club was named?

Auldheid

i dont think Rangers have done everything they could have,and i never stated that. I said they had done something about it ,which is very differrent, but they have taken steps. I see this as an issue with their support seperate from the club.

I don't think you can hold a club accountable to a points deduction for the actions of their support, unless they are ignoring the problem, encouraging it or lying about trying to prevent it

The Rangers chairman has many faults, ego and reckless financial management chief amongst them. I don't think for a second he is racist or sectarian. He is likely to be angered and embarrassed by a large element of his clubs support. He and the SPL have a serious and difficult problem to solve, i don't think Celtic's job is to squirt petrol from the sidelines. Leave it to the authorities, the police have shown they will act, the Spl have fired a warning shot, the SFA likewise, UEFA have already acted against other aspects of Rangers behaviour, i'm pretty sure if Rangers supporters indulge in racist behaviour next season in a game under UEFA's control they will throw strike 3 against Rangers.The only people who appear to support these chants are the people who make them, or sections of the media, particularly the daily record who don't see a problem.

Their behaviour afflicts and affects not only Celtic supporters and players. I have Hibs supporting friends who tell me it is a regular feature of games against Rangers at Easter Rd, James McCarthy is being racially persecuted as are other players of Irish descent at other clubs. We have no exclusive rights to be offended by these people, many other clubs supporters are offended as well, and in fairness there is probably a large element of Rangers supporters themselves who are appalled by these people and embarassed by the platitudes and excuses offered by Mr Edgar of the RST

PeteTheBeat

on trial at Lennoxtown ;-)

larmartine

Parnell?

DD

Paul67,

I see that you (and James Forrest for that matter) are one of the nominees for the "Best Writer Either Media" award on the Fanzine Awards 2009.

Bit disappointed to note that CQN didn't get a mention in the "Best Blog fans' nominations" though.

Good Luck anyway to you both.
HAIL! HAIL!
Token

D.D.

Not Parnell

The Token Tim

Your right wrote it in that invisible ink:)

Y I C

It is laughable to suggest that Rangers have done all they can to stop the singing of racist and sectarian bile.

They encourage the moronic element of their support with the triumphalist cacophany played before every game,their management team ignore the songs or refuse to comment and their players pander to the lowest common denominator by agreeing to cease displaying their religious affiliations.

They could,for example,before each game state that TFS is racist and the singing of that, or any other racist or sectarian song,will not be tolerated.The announcement could be made on the pitch by a senior office holder at the club.Anyone singing such songs could be filmed and shown on the big screens until he is arrested.If it still continued the players could leave the pitch.

If they were GENUINELY determined to stamp this out it could be done in a month.

They could also apologise ,as a club for their, 110 years of officially sanctioned bigotry.

DD,

I'm sure that most Irish people would see it the way your "other half" sees it.

My belief is that perhaps this is one reason why we are actually disliked by many over here.

No-one who loves their country likes to see their Anthem abused.

tinytim.1.55pm.

I agree 100%,There is little difference between us and them,Celtic are changing for the better but there's a bit to go yet,There's no more bottles and cans to contend with,Celtic have cleaned their act up there.
I remember once in the late fifties or early sixties at a Hun game,and they were belting out "Up to their knee's in Fenian blood",
I remember a wee guy standing near us quip,I'd rather stand up to the knee's in fenian blood than standing up to my knee's in this fenian urine.That brought a smile to my face when I remembered that one,Well Celtic's cleaned their act up there too.

Can you remember when you had to dress down for a football match,you could never wear anything decent or it would have to go straight into the washing when you got home,I remember we would stop of at a pub and if you stood next to a heater,the stench of drying urine permeated the air,Facinating things you can talk about now,that happened in the fifties and sixties.Celtic's cleaned up their act there too.

We always seem to worry about the other side,and the mess that they are in.And the songs they sing,We were,and still are to a lesser degree singing songs that are not to everyone's taste.

Lurgan53 Is correct,the Irish National Anthem shouldn't be sung at Celtic Park unless Celtic are playing a team from Ireland.

I'm avocating that we should't sing rebel songs.

Celtic Supporters have a plethora of Celtic songs that can be sung at games,there is no need to antagonise others with the Rebel songs.
I don't like the TFS.But there are a lot don't like the Irish National Anthem getting sung at Celtic Park,and elsewhere.

We should worry that we don't get brought into their arguement by default,They are in trouble RE the songs they sing,don't involve us in their troubles.An act that Celtic should clean up.

Finally I'd just like to say,Thank God there were nothing in the rumours that were spread on here last week by our own,we never learn.

Its frankly disappointing that those wishing to impose a 'little green book' of acceptable songs seem utterly incapable of leaving the subject alone.

Some of us think this appeasement is both unnecessary and dangerous but we don't bang on and on about it as we know there is no consensus and it leads to sterile, cyclical debates.

To the football songs only wing - we know your views, you will only wind folk up by constantly reiterating them. Can we please leave it out?

The "add-ons" are not only cringeworthy but they ruin perfectly fine songs

National Anthem - what has the Pope got to do with Ireland?
Willie Maley - what have the IRA got to do with Celtic.
Fields of Athenrye - Sinn Fein and IRA

Watch out for the amount of extra microphones at Fir Park this weekend.

Token Tim

As someone who has spent a lot of his life in England, I know exactly what you mean about our being seen as the other side of the same coin as EU's team. I even had it dished out to me in the South of France. Very hard to begin to explain to anyone who has not lived in the West of Scotland

barcabhoy

to look at the murray issue in another way:-

would someone with no sympathy for the protestant superiority syndrome choose to invest money & an institution which personifies that mentality?

If you believe the answer to that to be yes, fair enough. I would not agree.

However, if you, not being a racist or sectarian bigot personally, & having no truck with such abhorrent views, found yourself owning & controlling an organisation who have vast numbers of supporters who routinely spout out songs of hate, would it be reasonable to think that such a man would stand by & allow such views to be expressed without a word of condemnation until threatened with serious consequences by UEFA?

Would such a man allow for years & years songs to be played through the P.A. system at the ground that he owns which he knows that pretty much the whole crowd coming to watch his team will turn into songs of hate?

Would it be reasonable to expect that such a man would come out & condemn the songs as being plain wrong, not because they might put his club in a difficult position with UEFA & the other footballing authorities, but because they are simply wrong?

I think that you are being far too fair to Moonbeams.

thomthetim

What I would say, and I know this isn't the case everywhere in the Republic but most places I've been outside of Dublin always play the national anthem at the end of a night. Certianly in Donegal, Mayo and parts of Cork this happens.

I just don't want to see Celtic 'de-irished' as it were as I know a lot of fans these days seem hell bent on this happening.

DD

lamartine

Brendan Bracken

UC

Ulster-Celt

Yes
Give that man a cigar...Churchill style

oldtim67

as knowing as you are generous

PetetheBeat

He mentioned being despatched to Scranton, PA., and that this would necessitate his being off-line for 2/3 weeks, I think.

JTT

Fair play to you. Expensive lesson learned I trust?

TBB

JTT,

Just wanted to say fair play to you sir.

It is nice to know that someone worthy will benefit from some of the arguments we all have on CQN.

lamartine, Ulster-Celt.

Just read the Wiki entry for Mr. Bracken.

What an extraordinary character.

Posts like your two are why I love this blog.

As for the songs debate....No FT, no comment ;-))

While I don't want to get caught up in another Songs Debate, I think anybody who is advocating that we can sing what we like (and especially the odious add ons)could do no better than read OldTim67's contribution @ 4.38. Very apt and timely.

DD

There is no danger of Celtic de- Irished, but on the evidence of how the Anthem is sung at our games, I feel that the Irishness of the club is being severely compromised by those who use the Anthem as an act of defiance, rather than a source of pride.

The fact that this practice not only offends Catholics, but also insults Ireland, is an irony too far for me.

God Bless Ireland.

thomthetim

Agree but you must admit for many years our club was a vehicle for defiance in the face of perceived tyranny during the late 70s and 80s in Ireland and perhaps longer against the bias in scottish society.

DD

Thomthetim/Donegaldanny

I have just begun a book which might interest you (and others) (new perspectives on ) The Irish in Scotland...edited by Martin J.Mitchell.

I have only read the first essay and have left a brief synopsis of it on the previous thread....

read and enjoy

www.scotland.gov.uk/resource/Doc/1066/0047833.pdf

Have to say that I´m pretty disappointed that the representative of the Association of Irish Celtic Supporters Clubs had no quibble with the playing of The Dam busters or The Great escape. Yes it is not our truck but could at lease state that it´s inappropriate at a football match

lamartine

I would also suggest the DVD Celtic the Irish Connection as to why generations even now feel the need to express irishness in the way we do.

DD

Tooting Tim @4.52

Go raibh maith agat

On the songs debate there will never be agreement on any song unless there is a set of criteria to go by.

The Billy Boys offers one set of criteria for a sectarian song in that the words "up to our kneees in fenian blood" offers violence to a person of an identifiable religious faith either directly or in this case by inference, fenian = Catholic.

If you take the Soldiers Song or The Fields that are deemed acceptable by Celtic if I undersatnd it correctly? The thing about these songs is that they are "inward aimed" or "centred on self" celebrating that sense of self.

Sectarianism "is bigotry, discrimination, prejudice or hatred arising from attaching importance to perceived differences between subdivisions within a group, such as between different denominations of a religion or the factions of a political movement.

The key words are sub divisions WITHIN a group. The group involved with The Fields or Soldiers is a single group where no sub division exists.

For a song to be sectarian it has to project OUTWARD from that group ideas or beliefs that the group wish to impose on others or express distaste or hatred for those OUTSIDE the group.

The key words are inward celebation and outward projection. The first cannot by definition be sectarian but the latter depending on the words can.

So use those criteria to at least draw a line.

Now on what is objectional to others: songs that are inward celebrating might cause offence to others but they are the ones taking offence, it is not being offered to or aimed at them. It is something intolerant in them that sparks the offence taken. As I said before if beauty is in the eye of the beholder, why not offence? We as Celtic supporters are not responsible if others take offence at our songs of inward celebration. It is only when outward projection as in say add ons occurs that sectarianism might apply.

These criteria would apply to Rangers songs as well as our own.

This debate has been going on for ever. You would think someone would have penned official criteria from usage by now to give guidance to the support.

Note criteria is NOT a song list. Folk can use the criteria to look at what they sing and maybe think about why they are singing what they are. Inward celebration of belief/faith/culture/tradition or outward projection of those things on to others.

Question the motivation, using the criteria, not the words.

Very interesting stuff from Platini today :

"Clubs are telling us that our system is in danger of financially imploding in the medium term," said Platini

"We are looking at limiting a club's expenditure on staff."

The 53-year-old former France international added: "That limit would be salary and transfer fees combined - to an as yet undecided percentage of its direct and indirect sporting revenue."

Platini stated that one club's "astronomical bids" were "morally" questionable.

Full story

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/7896994.stm

Hopefully typo free

On the songs debate there will never be agreement on any song unless there is a set of criteria to go by.

The Billy Boys offers one set of criteria for a sectarian song in that the words "up to our knees in fenian blood" offers violence to a person of an identifiable religious faith either directly or in this case by inference, fenian = Catholic.

If you take the Soldiers Song or The Fields that are deemed acceptable by Celtic if I understand it correctly? The thing about these songs is that they are "inward aimed" or "centred on self" celebrating that sense of self.

Sectarianism "is bigotry, discrimination, prejudice or hatred arising from attaching importance to perceived differences between subdivisions within a group, such as between different denominations of a religion or the factions of a political movement.

The key words are sub divisions WITHIN a group. The group involved with The Fields or Soldiers is a single group where no sub division exists.

For a song to be sectarian it has to project OUTWARD from that group ideas or beliefs that the group wish to impose on others or express distaste or hatred for those OUTSIDE the group.

The key words are inward celebration and outward projection. The first cannot by definition be sectarian but the latter depending on the words can.

So use those criteria to at least draw a line.

Now on what is objectionable to others: songs that are inward celebrating might cause offence to others but they are the ones taking offence, it is not being offered to or aimed at them. It is something intolerant in them that sparks the offence taken. As I said before if beauty is in the eye of the beholder, why not offence? We as Celtic supporters are not responsible if others take offence at our songs of inward celebration. It is only when outward projection as in say add ons occurs that sectarianism might apply.

These criteria would apply to Rangers songs as well as our own.

This debate has been going on for ever. You would think someone would have penned official criteria from usage by now to give guidance to the support.

Note criteria is NOT a song list. Folk can use the criteria to look at what they sing and maybe think about why they are singing what they are. Inward celebration of belief/faith/culture/tradition or outward projection of those things on to others.

Question the motivation, using the criteria, not the words.

Platini stated that one club's "astronomical bids" were "morally" questionable.

How dare Platini question PL´s approach to his work ;-)

DD
thanks for taht...I have been aware of that dvd but I was unsure if it was worth buying..I shall do so now...I am now going to the Hell Fire Club which is not nearly as exciting as sounds.

Go neiri an bothar leath

JTT @ 4.36 :-)

Parkheadcumsalford @ 4.42,

You mention the South of France, co-incidentally a few years ago I was working on an oil refinery close to Marseille when being introduced to several engineers as being from Scotland, the very first question I was asked was:

"Celtic ou rangers?"

After having a quick chuckle I replied "Celtic!"

To which the rejoinder was: "Ah vous etes un Catholique" which was definitely phrased more as a statement than question!

There then followed a 10min conversation as to the Celtic/Catholic/Ireland v rangers/protestant/Scotland issue with these French chemical engineers, a couple of whom had no idea about this, as football was not their "thing" and were astonished at how religion/politics had such an impact upon football.

The guy who asked the initial question was a big Marseille fan who had a very poor interaction with some rangers fans when they were over in Marseille in the 90's for the CL game and so subsequently had a real dislike for them!

Unfortunately for him, his cousin is none other than Julian Rodriguez the ex Monaco player who happened to sign for rangers!
Still didn't change his opinion of rangers though :-)

HAIL! HAIL!
Token

By RogueLeader on February 18, 2009 5:08 PM
Cheers that is exactly what I predicted in that E tims article. Roll on the day a wage cap comes in. It could save Celtic next season.

penang_bhoy on February 18, 2009 4:43 PM

it will be an 80 degree day in Harthill in February before i am "far too fair to the Rangers Chairman".

However i am not going to criticise him for behaviour i don't think he is guilty of. Wheter you or i enjoy the stuff that comes out of the Ibrox PA is neither here nor there. It isn't racist and it's not illegal. I think it's just as ludicrous for our support to condemn the dambusters or land of hope and glory as it is for theirs to condemn the fields and the soldiers song.

if some Celtic supporters sing an unnacceptable add on to the Soldiers Song, should Celtic condemn the Irish National Anthem and refuse to play it. Just because a misguided minister doesnt understand the motives behind the fields should we stop playing it.

If we are starting to object to a British Club playing a song honouring British military heroes, then we are getting oversensitive to a ridiculous degree, and we are clouding the issue

the damsbusters theme is not offensive the famine song is...lets stick to safe solid ground here, and as i said earlier, this is not an issue for Celtic at this time

Celtic and the support pitching in too heavily now will make it less likely the problem will be solved

By barcabhoy on February 18, 2009 5:13 PM

You might want check out my songs contribution about criteria.

It might help stop the tennis match that inevitably arises when songs are debated.

I would be interested in your views.

TTT,

imho and from my experiences most people in Europe think of us a Celtic and Rangers as Glasgow. Often they confuse them both.

Also most Europeans have more of a fondness for the Irish than they do the British whom they consider to be English. That alone helps the Irish perception.

HAil HAil

barcabhoy,

you dont think that rejoicing in the Dam busters theme tune is being offensive to Germans ?

HAil Hail

Auldheid

I think any reasonable person would find it hard to disagree with your criteria

finding enough reasonable people is the hard bit

Quite frankly,when i read of the supposed steps taken by rangers,you know the ones,designed to eradicate biggoted behaviour,i have to laugh.This institution has,for it's entire history,allowed,and indeed,encouraged such behaviour amonst it's support,how else would anyone describe the sectarian stance taken by the managemant?.It is less than five years since the upper echelon of their support were found to be indulging in just the sort of singing so roundly condemned by any right minded individual.In the intervening period,NOT ONE SINGLE PERPETRATOR HAS BEEN CENSURED,rangers,for all their supposed dislike of such behaviour,can not find one,solitary miscreant,to hold up as an example of their earnest endeavour to REALLY eradicate this sickness from the very core of their fanbase.As far as i am concerned,the sooner they are reduced to nothing more than a bad memory,the better we all will be.

barcabhoy

Im afraid our views on Mr Murrays efforts fall at opposite ends of the spectrum

If Murray wanted to end sectarianism in his support would he have

1. Sold Orange Xmas Trees in his shop.
2. Hunted high and low for a tie in with a club with an orange top to sell in his Shops.
3. £1690 season tickets
4. Ban Eggs Benedict
5. Pepperoni Ban
5. Green Straws Ban
6. Wait until EUFA warned his club before doing the first thing to eliminate or even suggest bigotry is wrong.
7. Hire Media House to try and hide the bad press and look for ways to try and make the Celtic support look as bad if not worse than his own.
8. Try and deflect a rascist and sectarian issue by attempting to replace Scotlands SHame Bigotry by Scotlands SHame Obesity.

In my opinion he doesnt care about bigotry in his support except where it affects his pocket. He was happy to profit from Orange Xmas tress, now he knows that continuing displays of bigotry will hurt his pocket that why he is acting.

barcabhoy

you have misunderstood my position. I have talked about songs of hate.

I have absolutely no problem with the songs you have mentioned, nor God Save the Queen for that matter, being played at ibrox. Whether you, I, or anyone else likes them, they are not songs of hate, are not unlawful, or discriminatory, & can be played ad infinitum. I agree with you that even if some find these songs offensive, that its quite ludicrous to object to them being played, or sung by the support.

Murray has though been chairman for over 20 years. For how long in that time was "Simply the Best" played, when EVERY time it was, the support would sing "add-ons" at full pelt.

Did Murray stop that? Well, eventually, after many years.

The other matters I have raised about Murray i note you have not commented on.

I am expecting 80 degrees in harthill anytime now ;-)

Dear Sir,

Tennis match?

It was chess yesterday.

What happened to the football?

Yrs sincerely

Confused of Dumfriesshire.

penang_bhoy

dont forget the DJ turn down the PA system so that the add ons can be encouraged to be belted out and that went on for years.

The same bunch that love the Dam busters and The great escape are only to happy to perform their innocent Hitler salutes in Tel Aviv ... and we have people on here saying its not offensive ????

Rogue Leader

On the Platini link:

I cannot understand Platini asking the EU to interpetr EU law favourably. What he is trying to do is what the EU want to happen and that is for football to become solid and sustainable. The EU have already indicated they are willing to apply the specificity of sport argument on a case by case basis where it helps the EU policy.

He is pushing at an open door. I wonder if he is playing daft or is setting the stage for the EU to back him more openly?

Be careful what you wish for Stan

Awe-Naw,

I would agree but only up to a certain point, namely that most people who have any real knowledge of football know about the Celtic v rangers rivalry. They may not know that we are both based in Glasgow, although in many cases I have seen us on foreign TV portrayed as Celtic Glasgow, but they do know Celtic is opposite of rangers!

As to the British/English v Irish perception, I agree wholeheartedly, hence the reason I tend to emphasise my "Scottishness" when first meeting potential customers as opposed to my so-called "Britishness"

HAIL! HAIL!
Token

Awe Naw

I don't think there is anything wrong with playing the dambusters or the Great escape.

Not sure anyone has said that the half wits (& I am being very kind) who perform the Nazi salutes are not offensive... these guys are scum.

aw naw

The same bunch that love the Dam busters and The great escape are only to happy to perform their innocent Hitler salutes in Tel Aviv ... and we have people on here saying its not offensive ????

also their israeli flags on sunday
confused peepel or whit

P.S I mean that no-one on here has said that...

Barcabhoy

I think you are right in the sense that we cannot criticise Rangers for the Nuremburgesque rallies they hold before their games as, in their own right, they are not in fact racist or sectarian.

I would however say that they are indulging in dog whistle politics to their lumpen core support.

What other team in the UK has to "prove" its Britishness? If they were so quintessentially British, why shout about it? I was born in Scotland, actaully like Scotland a heck of a lot (despite its flaws) but don't feelt the need to wear a kilt or sing Flower of Scotland every other week. I'm comfortable in my skin.

Rangers aren't. All this Britishness guff is a reaction to the fact that they have no positive identity while Celtic has a proud, popular and inclusive one.

Rangers,as far as I know were founded in Britain, by British people and do not have any links with anywhere outside of Britain (if we leave for a moment the fact that Northern Ireland didn't exist when Rangers were founded, many believe NI shouldn't be part of the UK anyway and that the club's links with NI was/is a cynical manipulation of Scottish sectarianism).

We certainly can criticise the reactionary awfulness of their unique selling point. Its just plain bad. Out of date, out of time and thoroughly out of step with mainstream opinion. Fewer and fewer Scots identify with "Britishness", this despite Gordon Brown trying to shove this mythical British identity down our throats.

The English must wonder what on earth Rangers are about. They must look on them the same way they do the Ulster Unionists, the BNP and the UKIP. At best barmy and at worst dangerous. I find all that Rule Brittania stuff thoroughly depressing, but I'd be depressed even more if I felt it was actually popular with the general public. Its not. No-one likes them. They don't care. They've even got a song about it.

Donegaldanny

I well remember the anthem being sung at the endof a film (used to holiday in bunbeag) and ceilies etc.

Also agree whoeheartedly with you in not wishing to see our club de-irished. And you're right - there is an element of "the enemy within". We must celebrate the Irish connection with dignity and pride. Ever mindful however that Celtic is first and foremost a proud Scottish club.

An Lorgain

StevieNoBread, just because i am bored i will attempt to argue the points raised from media houses point of view :)

1. Sold Orange Xmas Trees in his shop.
they are not orange they are tangerine

2. Hunted high and low for a tie in with a club with an orange top to sell in his Shops.
There are obvious close relations between Rangers and whoflungdung FC...

3. £1690 season tickets
Err difficult one this but if you add VAT and interest and guarantee with extended warranty and free fluffy dice it comes to £1888 (is that any better :) )

4. Ban Eggs Benedict
This is ongoing from Edwina Curry stating that eggs were dodgy 20 years ago. Better to be safe than sorry

5. Pepperoni Ban
Part of SDMs efforts to rid Scotland single handidly of obesity single handedly

5. Green Straws Ban
Due to a manufacturing fault the green ones all had holes in them...

6. Wait until EUFA warned his club before doing the first thing to eliminate or even suggest bigotry is wrong.
Oh look over there...they are much worse than us wee misunderstood angels

7. Hire Media House to try and hide the bad press and look for ways to try and make the Celtic support look as bad if not worse than his own.
Good chaps that they are :)
PS we need to talk about a wage rise Mr Murray...

8. Try and deflect a rascist and sectarian issue by attempting to replace Scotlands SHame Bigotry by Scotlands SHame Obesity.
SDM has made his point about obesity, in fact he no longer gets Tops made in sizes over XXXXL. Concrete Proof...

There try and poke holes in that :)

penang_bhoy,

its plainly offensive to Germans let me rest assure you.

In Germany if you perform a Hitler salute then it´s immediate jail. btw I have witneesed this

Denial of the Holocaust in Holland can get you a minimum of 5 years. Austria I think its three years

But over the Channel you can sing and dance and be jolly about the war perform Hitler salutes etc. ???????

me no understand I´ve been of the island for too long

HAil HAil

I already pasted it.

It's worth to see it.

Celtic Glasgow on Legia Warsaw web site

I wasn't intending to post but the needle on my songs-ometer started twitching. I checked the blog and - 'pon my soul! - there was indeed another songs debate taking place.

Now I like a songs debate just like the next mhan. However, by my reckoning it hasn't been too long since the last one. I would much prefer to concentrate on the garbage uttered by TFOD. As someone has already pointed out, there is a difference between songs deemed offensive and those which are racist and, consequently, criminal in nature. There is a qualitative difference which must be recognised by the authorities otherwise there is a danger of "mission creep" whereby any song may be the basis for a points deduction. I feel the club and all the supporters when discussing this issue make it clear there is clear (blue) water between us and TFOD. We will still have the moral, and legal, high ground because the Govanites do not feel there is any need to change their behaviour. They will hang by their own rope. Our position should be we are not committing a criminal offence when we open our mouths to sing.

By penang_bhoy on February 18, 2009 5:23 PM

"The other matters I have raised about Murray i note you have not commented on.

I am expecting 80 degrees in harthill anytime now ;-)"

i just happen to think the Rangers Chairman is not the target on this issue. If the authorities try and nail him, it will prove difficult or impossible. nailing the Rangers support is much more achieveable. I just see Murray's previous as a distraction to the big issue here. His actions can be debared either way and are not conclusive, so why waste the effort. The Rangers supporters on the other hand cannott be defended and are a target which should be easily hit

Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo on February 18, 2009 5:30 PM

Singing the dambusters is not offensive....nazi salutes are offensive..the two are not mutually exclusive...if we go down the road of trying to condemn dambusters, land of hope and glory and GSTQ we are doing Jack Irvines job for him...and doing it better than he could....

far better to watch this play out....the racists and bigots have provided the authorities with the ammunition they require, i just dont want to see us deflect any focus away from their job of dealing with it

re the songs
murray can't and won't stop these clowns in their support, they are the foundation on which rangers fc stand .
The only ones who can stop these morons and bigots are the decent forward thinking gers fans ,they may be the silent minority /majority whichever way you want to look at it .
Even among the "I will sing what I want to sing" brigade there MUST be those who see that the rangers of old HAS to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century .
They sure as hell won't stop singing because some tims tell them to .
The worst offender in all this IMO is the RST the mouthpiece that is David Edgar had a chance to show some vision and guts and stand up for the decent gers fans who want to go and support their team without all the bile and hatred .Instead he chose to side with the bigots and bleats on about how they are being victimised .
Well David in the words of your RST ,I say say this on behalf of the whole of Scotland's FOOTBALL fans

WE DESERVE BETTER
HAIL HAIL

A Soldier's Song/ Amhrán na bhFiann

The lyrics in the version that is usually sung by our supporters are so inaccurate as to render them a parody of the real thing. As such I take no offence - and certainly have no problem with the notion that it might act as a wind up to our enemies.

The add-on (God Bless the Pope) I do take offence at. For that reason I would rather it wasn't sung.

Any criticism of our support's disrespect for the anthem should be put in perspective. For every time that I hear our support criticised by cultural purists I can cite plenty of examples of downright crassness shown towards the anthem here in the 26 counties of Ireland. The practice of playing it at the end of pub functions also serves to devalue its traditions. And it's not just drunk people at the end of a night in the pub. County players lined up before GAA matches seem unable to stand still, let alone to attention and invariably break ranks well before the end of the rendition. Some Northern teams are very well behaved, though, I'm afraid I cannot include Donegal. Spectators are not much better. The last two lines of the anthem are always drowned out by the impatient disrespecting supporters.

Awe Naw,

using Nazi salutes is/should be offensive to anyone, in Germany or elsewhere, but I think thats a bit different, well, a lot different, to a club in Britain playing songs from war films ;-)

Anyhow, what this demonstrates, perhaps, is that most things are capable of being offensive to someone- the "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" analogy from some posters earlier, if you like.

Offensive though is very different from unlawful, & its the unlawful songs that their fans choose to sing that we can, & should, strenuously oppose, & demand that action is taken against their club, as per UEFA & SFA rules.

Anyhow, thats me for the night- as usual, enjoyed the chat on here today.

We all know the British songs were taken up by the hun because of Britains historical antagonism of Ireland,we celebrate our Irish links/traditions therefore the hun decides to be Uber Britisher,its always made me laugh because you never hear Rule Brit sung at Premiership games or any other song that celebrates Britain,somebody correct me if Im wrong by the way but when was the last time Land Of Hope And Glory,The Great Escape tune,Rule Brit or The Dambusters (I dont even know what this song is but I cant help think we should adapt it to "The Darnelbusters!")was played over the tannoys in the Premship?,my point is,is that if the hun are really the only club in Britain (which is high profile) who regularly revel in an orgy of Britishness then surely the hun at club level cannot be seen to be trying their best to eradicate bigotry,Im not trying to break an egg with a sledgehammer here Im just pointing out how Ive always seen how the hun has no sense of itself and the "Quintessentially British" tag is laughable and heavily ironic.

Their culture only exists in spite of ours.

myTuppenceWorthCsC

Barcabhoy,

taggsybhoy above said it far more eloquently than I ever could.
Nobody sings it. It is a theme tune played on the official Ibrox PA and in my opinion it´s glorifying war and has no place in civilised society except in it´s proper context or within a library. GSTQ is about slavery ... how far back in the annals of history do we need to go before we embark on an education program for these animals ?

Hail Hail

Anyone got a link to paddys double against hibs
tried you tube got nowt .
hail hail

taggysbhoy

I loved the "dog whistle" reference. Some dog, some whistle.

I find the Govanburg rally particularly offensive. There were many good Celtic supporters who fought in the Second World War, many of whom gave their lives for their country. There were even more who were badly scarred either physically or psychologically. Playing these so-called anthems suggests an "ownership" of the WW2 experience which is totally unjustified. It also emanates from the club, not the support. I find it strange that this has gone completely unremarked by anyone in the media. It is the other side of TFS as far as I am concerned.

By the way, songs-ometer is registering strongly. Just thought you should know.

correction Rule Brittania is about slavery !

I meant to add that "Rangers" and "British" always reminds me of the advert near election time where Nick Griffin stands in front of a Spitfire!

The actual Billy Boys song is based on the old Glasgow Bridgeton Gangster and Nazi Sympathiser Billy Fullerton from the 20's and 30's

The phrase, "up to our knees in Fenian Blood" is in memory of his groups sectarian attacks on immigrant Irish, on the assumption that they were all part of the Fenian Movement.

Fenian is not a Sectarian word as it had no religous bias as a political movement.

This is why many of us are exasperated at the whole thing.

Looking at some of the previous post, re orange finals etc, we should know that Murray is an opportunist of the crudist form.

Rangers are an opportunist club of the crudist form.

They only started their sectarian policy when Celtic rose to prominance in Scotland in an attempt to regain parity. Thats why many Rangers supporters counter claim the no Catholic claim with a list of players from the early 20th Century (up to Mo Johnstone of course). Even lately they have shifted their "culture" from Scottish to English (???)

We are moving into strange times with the global recession abound. History tells us that in extreme times, society can hold extreme views.

Murray is an opportunist, Rangers are an opportunist club built on weak foundations.

If racism is a growing crowd puller in football, Murrays yer man and Rangers are your club to seek full advantage.

We can't stop it....the frustration is we appear to be becoming weaker

as of today lurgan56 is no more i have become lurgan57
alas no wiser
UP THE CELTS

Happy Birthday Lurgan

awe_naw
Thank you for kind wishes

hoopeddreams.

Thats a pretty weak argument.
If we want to adopt those songs and music,to lay highlight our part in both wars ,we could.

Nobody is stopping us.

The fact is we have fans who rightly or wrongly won't even wear a poppy.In fact they walked out of our stadium in protest at a small Celtic link to the British war effort.

I can understand why some of our fans would do so.I am not condemning there right to do so.I am just saying nobody stops Celtic from highlighting a Celtic connection to the previous war efforts.

TinyTim,

Public warning !!!

Poppy debate ?? and a songs debate ... shocking behaviour truly shocking.

any way moving on ... everybody else on here as happy as me with the January transfer window ? ;-)

Some time ago the SPL set out a series of graduated sanctions for clubs whose fans are guilty of sectarian/racist behaviour. As far as Rangers are concerned SPL still has sanctions in reserve. For the time being we've got to assume that they are acting in good faith and let them get on with it. After all, the sectarianism/racism issue is not our problem.

Incidentally, RFC are only a symptom of the problem. I tend to think that it suits the authorities for this whole bigotry/racism problem to be aggregated as a purely 'football' issue. That means that it is discussed only by those least qualified ie, the living dead from the back page like BFDJ, WCY and fat fly boy, Traynor.

The point I'm trying to make is that people elsewhere have solved much more serious communal divisions than Scotland's. Ask Obama.

TinyTim

I don't think it is an argument, as it were, that I am making. I just find it offensive, and I certainly would not advocate any attempt to incorporate anything similar into half-time at Celtic Park. Why do we need to "celebrate" WW2 at a football match? And not just once a year but at a every single home game? There are others on this blog who seem to agree that it is offensive. I accept we all have different tolerance levels - no doubt that's part of the reason we have songs' debates! Bear (sic) in mind the ownership issue. That is the real cause for complaint, in my opinion.

Martin47,

George Bush f%&$§ up so bad he made it impossible for a white man to elected president. I wouldn´t get too carried away there.

ChrisRockCSC

It is strange though that the hackles are only raised when it is considered illegal and not offensive. In other words its disappointing that the banking industry went to pot last year once legislation comes in in 5 years to prevent it happening again (aye right) the those that have offended us last year will be in the clink , the next time it happens.

I´m offended that tims dont find that offensive ... so FYI you are being offensive.

Hail Hail

Awe Naw

I have a discounted tracker mortgage. I am paying £600 less per month than last October.

Damn the Banking industry.

shorttermismcsc

Ulster-Bank

come in from work,read this...

oldtim
you might have your chance to get a new member of your team because this crap really gets me annoyed....

BT

mmmmm Songs debate session!!!

One thing I actually found amusing from TFOD was when they chose to hum the Billy Boys, because singing it was banned.

Those of you who are familiar with Catch 22 will know the famous censoring scene where all text in letters are censored except for articles and conjunctives. Are the SFa going to take it to the next level and ban all dittys with a B flat followed by E major? Don't think so.

I think that getting hot and bothered about songs perpetuates the debate. Best to ignore until they realise that it doesn't provoke a reaction...

Hoopeddreams
Rangers are pandering to their masses.

I don't like it either.

It's actually pathetic.

Saturday afternoon at the proms,Yer havin a laugh.

Just had the following message from the Huddleboard. I Love number 4

notthebus, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

1.Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
2.If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.
3.The administrator has invoked the 'Sunday Club' Law and denied infrequent visitors/contributors access to forum during exceptionally busy times.
4.Yer a stinking hun monkey and we're on to you!

Lurgan56

congrats on becoming lurgan57

BT

Dubaibhoy

they "hum" it using the lrics of "he knew".

Dispicable.

This constant reference to a shocking child abuse case beggars belief and is largely ignored by the media.

Lurgan
forgive me for the lurgan...

Ulster-Celt,

Thats good cause next week you can invite yer maw and da , gran and granda to come and stay with you after their pension obliteration ;-)

7 years ago I got involved in an internal dispute at where I worked a bank. As an IT guy (independent contractor) I wasn´t prepared to give a trader the ability to trade as much as 800 million dollars on currency markets

My boss told me that I was right to refuse the request. Upon further research I thought that $800m was a limit for him within his career at the bank. When I checked the documentation and the code I couldn´t see any practical way that this could be implemented, upon further analysis I asked the guy who wrote the application how this limit was controlled he told me

"No No that is the upper limit for any single trade ... if he whats to sit at his terminal all day typing in $800m trades he can, nothing can or will stop him except the bank collapsing"

I therefore refused and it became an internal dispute within the bank which naturally the I.T department lost. The front office won although they had to pay some other guys to come in and look after that system as we officially refused to do so. My boss - ex boss now was not forgiven for rocking the boat within the bank and incurring extra costs- the bank was ING.

Hail Hail

re gers songs inquiry
No need to worry bhoys I am sure the radio phone ins and papers will highlight it for at least the next 7 days .
As I am aware there is no one else to interview about THG .
the paper boys will be glad as the rags will be a lot lighter this week .
hail hail

Dubaibhoy,

its Martins birthday today

Hail HAil

blantyretim.

you have mail.

Many years ago I tried one of those quiz machines in a pub called "The Trent Tavern" in Cockfosters (end of Picadilly line.)

Question : Who was the first British team to win the European Cup

Answer : Celtic Rangers

I refused to press that option (mind you there was no prize)!

Meanwhile re Awe naw's

Report into sectarianism

I was mildly amused by the way the even-handed scribe alternated the terms Celtic and Rangers and Rangers and Celtic.

The report itself was a farce mind-you but hey that's just my opinion.

After all Airdrie that bastion of egalitarianism and liberal bonhommie (the town and the club)could never be connected with such base traits as bigotry.

We are all aware of the the thin dividing line between genius and insanity, but there is an even thinner one that marks the sudden plunge in good looks intelligence, toiletry habits, general cleanliness and drug of choice on passing from Coatbridge into Airdrie, or in fact the amazing fine difference that is evidenced by the fact that a mere 1.5%of DNA differentiates us from the mhunkeys.

Airdrie, that clean-living tribute to downtrodden troglodytes where the drug of choice is the scientifically proven 'fat ugly pill' as recommended by Jim Traynor!

Ah and there we have another of those thin dividing lines!

The infinitesimal single gene mutation on the evolutionary tree of life that seperates him from a bellowing blubber rippling Antarctic Elephant seal.

it's a difficult call - a cull would be easier

the Journalist

JT is actually the first picture, but the Journalist is still in the second picture

Of course it is not just the physical resemblance that is striking, but the complete range of behavioural characteristics that suggest he really should be studied by David Attenborough

In Jim's case I use the term 'Thin' dividing line very loosely; in the same way as he uses the term 'reporter'.

Anyway, time for a mental scrub to remove the stains of that culture from my mind.

Jist jokin by the way. After all it's just a wind-up; I don't really mean it, I love Airdrie really, It's just to sell papers or get people to ring in. I'm a big Airdrie fan you know!!

Hail hail

Estadio

57.

You're a right knackered ol git now.

Not a young feller like me!

53 - the only decent looking clique member left.
Ard mhor ort.

53

how long have you been 53..?

4 years?

oldtim back at you...

Awe Naw,

spoke to him 2day - didn't know that - no signs of the crunch in Qatar!

Estadio ,

you are right an utter farce but the best Scotland has done.

It really needs to be done by an independent body.

blantyretim and 53

thank you for wishes and 53 or should i call you PETER PAN when will you make the adjustment

Dubaibhoy ,

time to shack up with him again ;-)

Awe Naw_Aye, right!

TinyTim

Better watch it now. Can't have peace breaking out on a songs debate!!

Rangers FC: The Quintessential British Football Club celebrating being Scottish?
January 30, 2009 · By Andy · Filed Under Featured, Rangers, Scotland, The Fans
We see the banners and the flags being flown at every game the Rangers fans go to. Rangers are the Quintessential British Team, according to their supporters and take pride in being a BRITISH club. However it seems that the Club’s hierarchy want to revel in being a Scottish club, only months after celebrating all things Ulster. So what is really going on at Ibrox? With this year being dubbed ‘The Year of Homecoming’ by the Scottish Government in a bid to boost Tourism in the country during a time of financial crisis, it is surprising that a club that celebrates its British-ness and its fans singing Rule Britannia and God Save the Queen should celebrate being Scottish.

So can you be Scottish and British at the same time? Well officially yes, but given that Scotland has its own parliament, our own identity and a sheer hatred for the English when it comes to Footballing matters then I doubt we could be both. While the majority of Scottish Football supporters back the campaign Against a Team GB, those Rangers supporters still revel at singing British anthems even more so when they play their arch rivals Celtic who celebrate their Irish identity as much as Rangers celebrate their British identity.

While Politics is not my area of expertise, it is a bit rich of the club to ask their fans to celebrate being Scottish given the fact they belt out songs glorifying the British Empire and sing a song - God Save the Queen - whose lyrics call the Rebellious Scots to be crushed. However is this day of celebration a Supporters group initiative or is it a Club initiative looking for some good PR? Well rumours persist that a PR company actually contacted the Scottish Executive in a bid to get their Day of Celebration backed by high fliers within the Scottish Government. However with the Government being run by the SNP, it would be a bit ridiculous that members of a Political Party that are bent on Scottish Independence, celebrate being Scottish at the ground of a club that oozes Unionism, Britishness and celebrates everything to do with the British Empire. Even a call from a couple of top officials at Rangers FC to the Scottish Executive was blanked.

Is ‘Scotland Day’ a PR stunt? well coincidently it is around the same time as Rabbie Burns day - 25th January - which is a major Scottish event throughout the world. So jumping on the bandwagon of everything Scottish would be a good initiative wouldn’t it? Well given that only in September the Quintessential British Club held ‘Ulster Day’ to celebrate the club’s historical friendship with the British state. What’s next for Rangers? Holland Day, America Day, Oz Day? Given that the club has strong links with those countries as well, with some of their players & former players and fans citizens of those countries it would be safe to say that they would do these days also? Nah that would be silly wouldn’t it? And so the club selects days to celebrate the more important aspects of the club’s links. Ulster Day was promoted and celebrated to get as many Rangers fans from Northern Ireland over to the stadium in that day, as well as those fans who revel in backing the Pro-British movement in Northern Ireland. Waving Ulster flags, celebrating Ulster players who donned the Rangers strip etc. as well as waving Union Jacks it was all in a days work for the Quintessential British Club. But now they are going to be celebrating everything Scottish - playing bagpipe music, Scottish ditties over the tannoy system, everyone handed FREE mini Saltires to wave on cue and a card display that will probably display a massive Saltire also - all bought and paid for by Sir David Murray at a time when finances are tight and they have to sell one of their key players to balance the books.

If Rangers are so proud of their Scottishness, why then at the UEFA Cup Final in Manchester did the majority of them wave Union Jacks and not the Saltire? Why not fly the Saltire and the Lion Rampant with pride rather than have mini Union Jacks all across the stadium. Why not tell the world - here is a Scottish club in a European Cup Final? Why not celebrate their Scottish Identity then?

While Rangers celebrating being Scottish is not a crime, trying to pass yourself off as the Quintessential British Club and also passing yourself off as a club that revels in its Scottishness is a bit of a joke given the times we live in. Many Scots see themselves as Scottish and not British, especially the Football Fans who follow our National team. Even the voting in of the SNP at the last Election has shown that society is sick of the cronies of Labour and the Tories who try to govern Scotland from the confines of Westminster. While I don’t disagree with the club’s and the fans claim that Rangers are the Quintessential British Club, they certainly are not a club that revels in being Scottish. Is Flower of Scotland sung at Ibrox? Is Scotland the Brave? How many Union Jacks do you see compared to Saltires at Ibrox? How many Scotland tops do you see at Ibrox compared to England shirts? In all these questions it is never the Scottish side that wins, it is always the British or the ‘English’ aspect of the club that does.

Although I class myself as being Scottish officially I am classed as British given that Scotland is still part of the United Kingdom/ Great Britain & Northern Ireland, as well as having a British Passport. But do we have a choice over this? No we don’t, the Passport is forced upon us and so is this false British Identity.

So isn’t it about time Rangers as a club come out and pick a side? Celtic have been celebrating their Irish heritage for years and have been hated for it by the Rangers support and more or less every other club in Scotland, and not just because of footballing reasons. Likewise Rangers are hated for rubbing their Quintessential Britishness in the faces of their opponents. The same Britain that tried to kill off Scottish Culture once and for all after the Battle of Culloden in 1746, the same Britain that first introduced the Concentration Camps in South Africa interning the Boer population, the same Britain that massacred men, women and children across the world in the name of King/Queen & Country. The same Britain that revelled in war, invading countries and forcing their will on the citizens all in the name of the ‘Glorious Empire.’ The same Britain who after WW2 promised Palestine to the Arabs and the same Britain who promised Palestine to the Jews across Europe and the World who were persecuted by the Nazis and their allies. The same Britain that left Palestine in a state of turmoil, washing their hands of the matter only to see the conflict between the two peoples still raging on even to this day. Oh how we should all celebrate being British and wave the Union Jack - seen by many not only in Ireland, but also across the world as nothing more than a Butcher’s apron.

Every club in Scottish Football is first and foremost a Scottish Club, they may have links to Northern Ireland or the Republic or even England etc. But they are all Scottish. If the FA thought of us as British then wouldn’t we have clubs in joint leagues? Would there be a huge uproar from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland about losing their identities at International Level so that we can have a Team GB if we classed ourselves as British? Of course not. When things go wrong with someone or something that is Scottish, Welsh or Irish - Britain is not mentioned yet when someone like Andy Murray progresses in a tennis competition or Chris Hoy wins a Gold Medal, its all about Britain and how glorious Britain is. This ‘country’ of Britain is still revelling in the British Empire mentality and while Rangers as a club and fan base also revel in it, its time they realised that the Empire didn’t care for anyone unless it benefited the Empire. Scotland was always a threat to them, Scotland was always a thorn in the side - even in the 1980s the Poll Tax protests in Scotland was a major thorn in Thatcher’s and Britain’s side and to this day the Tories have not won an election in Scotland due to the behaviour of their Quintessential British party against the Scots in the 1980’s.

So while the Rangers fans wave their little Saltires and Lion Rampants, singing along to the Scottish ditties being blasted out of the Quintessential British Club’s tannoy system - every other club’s support in Scotland will be looking on with downright disgust at the claims that the club is celebrating being Scottish, rather than what it actually is - a PR stunt to get the media off the back of Sir David Murray during a time of financial crisis at the club, as well as the recent Crimewatch episode that branded a minority of Rangers fans thugs and hooligans. Would Scotland Day have happened if Rangers fans had not rioted in manchester? Would Scotland day have happened if Rangers were not looking into a financial blackhole? Would Scotland Day have happened if Sir David Murray had needed good PR after recent media attacks on him and the handling of the club’s finances?

Rangers the Quintessential British Club - more like Rangers the Quintessential ‘We will do anything for good PR’ Club.

Dubaibhoy ,

LMFAO

HomeSweetHomeCSC

Whenever the question of sanctions being applied to Rangers comes up you will see or hear someone saying that they have made graet strides,doing everything in there power,recognition of efforts blah blah blah.

This is a smokescreen and if allowed ah would like to ask on Clyde why FIFA'S disciplinary measures are not being applied.

A point that is ignored by SPL officials and commentators is that Rangers are guilty under FIFA'S disciplinary code regardless of "CULPABLE CONDUCT OR CULPABLE OVERSIGHT"(Article 58 2a)

Lex Gold is deliberately flaunting FIFA'S disciplinary code,if he is ignorant of the above he should be sacked and if he is not he should be sacked for not applying the point deduction sanction.

Had the SPL applied the sanctions as intended Rangers would be relegated.

Ah would like someone to ask(ah would but am barred from clyde) the pundits on Clyde(fraser wishart would do)why there is such ignorance on this matter.

The FACT that culpability is no defence why is Lex Gold and the Spl are not being taken to task.

Guys,

just to let you all know how wide the evil web spreads - I turned up at an office in the middle of a desert a couple of days ago and you'll never guess what the keypad security code was...

Aye, king william's finest IT department came up with something really original!!!

Dubai

Jist short of 17 quid???

TerryO'Neill,

Rangers domestic behaviour will always be tolerated by UEFA for as long as Taylor has the ear and the trust of William Gaillard which he does.

Think about it. Look at Manchester in May .. that should have been strike 3 ... it wasn´t. That for me was incredible. Stabbings in the ground. Riots. Looting, vandalism, there will be soon peeple charged of attempted murder of a policeman and what happened to Rangers ???????

Rangers now have to tread very carefully in Europe. I expect then to contravene it sometime next season and I would expect a game behind closed doors. In fact i´ll give you 2.1 on it.

HAil HAil

Estadio,

it's dirhams out here, but aye Belfast's finest brains had their moment of glory!

my uncle got me his pal to put central heating into my home, 1994..
he asked for the usual figure.
he got 1685....

I´m off to watch some Rangers players getting injured hopefully - not offensive at at all - we, my teutonic cousins have a name for it - Schadenfreude ;-)

HAil Hail

unrelated CQN Question

In the film 'The Wind that shakes the barley', what is the song the rebels are singing at the very end of the film (when they are walking along the road)?

villa 1 0 down to cska..wagner love...
on council tv...c5....

Awe Naw,

that'll be the 5th round of UEFA then? The away leg against AC???

What were the "Questionable songs" being sung by the Celtic fans on Sunday?

Dubaibhoy

Posted several weeks ago that that security code was the code applied to schools, orange halls and offices all over NI. Secret code off course. LOL!!

57 ( previously 56) tells the story of a friend attending a match at the local Glenavon club. He shouted down to one of his fellow supporters - a well known man of The Orange - "Hey Ivan, who scored for Glenavon when they beat Crusaders 1 - 0 in 1947?"

Ivan retorted " How the f*** would I know who scored in 1947?"

"Well you remember 1690 - don't ya?" came the reply.

The old ones ........

Just imagine....

Forfar 1 Them 0

Well on Paddy Power a correct score of 1 - 0 is offered at 90/1! Guess that says it all....

Back to dreamland........

Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo on February 18, 2009 7:14 PM

Let me stress this point UEFA have no say in domestic competition.

Its FIFA who set the disciplinary code for world football and have the power to exclude the Scottish national team from its tournaments if sanctions are not properly enforced in the Scottish domestic league run by the Spl.

FIFA are the body that Celtic Fc should be approaching on behalf of us, the fans to enforce their statutes.

In 2009 am subject to racist comment ah want John Reid to do everything in his power,FIFA not the SPL are holding the whip hand.

pgtips2
Oró Sé do Bheath Abhaile

Hail Hail

I was thinking about including a music round in the quiz but I don't want to start another songs debate.....:)

pggtips2
Wind that shakes the barley

dennis 47

questionable songs??

"Who's the mason in the black?"

Most other songs and chants were straightforward statements :-)

SFTB

it would need to be a multiple choice round...

pggtips2,its called "oro se do bheatha bhaille" written by padraig pearce

well done terry

I could never work out links how do you do it?

Zybzsek,

Krasic playing for CSKA against MON's Aston Villa. Reminds me of Nedved with those blondle locks of his.

Does anyone know if we got a sell on clause put into the Petrov deal with Aston Villa?

He is getting good press down there and I read today that he is waiting to see what Gareth Barry does before he signs a new deal.

Lurgan,

Excellent!!!

Can anyone explain the Huns' banner on Sunday dedicated to the (ex?) Tory MP Dawn Primarolo?
What's she been getting up to?

Estadio,

I Stan will let the deal run down and either leave or force Villa to accept a bid for him in the last year of his contract.

dennis 47

I saw that hun banner.

I believe that Ms. Primarolo made certain allegations against Celtic's current chairman.

if you check wikipedia you will be informed.

Did Graeme Spiers not refer once to the awful things Murray says in private about Celtic?

dennis

BTW She's a Labour MP not Tory.

Dennis, you must be referring to this:

Has never voted on a transparent Parliament.
Voted for introducing a smoking ban.
Voted for introducing ID cards.
Voted for introducing foundation hospitals.
Voted for introducing student top-up fees.
Voted for Labour's anti-terrorism laws.
Voted for the Iraq war.
Voted against investigating the Iraq war.
Voted for replacing Trident.
Voted for the hunting ban.
Voted for equal gay rights.

dennsi47,

Dawn Primarolo is a current Labour MP and former Minister.

At one time there was an allegation that she was sexually harrassed by John Reid. I assume that is the "logic" behind the banner.

John and Dawn

WGS

Thats what I was thinking, guess AV would maybe go for a sale, could see Petrov running down and MON being happy with it.

MissingEuroTripsCSC

Must be the last one!!!

Eustace here's whit yae dae

Al use wind that shakes the barley on you tube as an example.
Go on you tube see the video you want to link to.

Below the video there is a button that says share.

Right click and copy the url.

Go to this site and use it to create your links

hyperlink code creator

Paste the copied url into the box and make a title in the box below.

highlight the new link and copy,go to cqn and paste it along with yir comment.

Looks complicated but its no.

Another story about that banner ... Red, white and blue Dawn Primarolo

Eustace/Terry

Brilliant, love the tune, very evocative

Songs Debate? Nearly straight out of here...
Then I saw something sublime...

Oró Sé do Bheatha Abhaile .....
Haunting Beauty indeed..

Seems to me like an Ideal Sound for the Homecoming Scottish Cup....

A Good Songs Debate...
What version? jacobite or Pearse?
Who should be invited to sing it?

Must Be Sinead for me...
;0)

What stage is the UEFA Cup at?

Is MON's team in a home and away tie or is it that daft league setup?

Eustace

anychance of a translation I think the last line of the chorus was "early in the morning" and I did'nt think it was a rebel song as such?

If that mob are to start huming their filth maybe our singing section should take up foreign language studies where would our over zealous stewards and lap top loathall be then.

Can just imagine them in the press box.

"Whit wis that the're singun"

Y I C

EDB
last 32
home leg...

Thanks, Guys.
What an ignorant pillock I feel.
It's a bleedin' education this site!

JTT

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Or%C3%B3_S%C3%A9_do_Bheatha_'Bhaile

Ulster-Celt

JTT
posted last week about black sunday in drogheda.

has been to my nephews 1st communion in dunore the day before,
watched the game is seargfields(sp)...go over a lot to see the st margarets bhoys...

BT

Cheers BT.

Is it already known who the winners get in the next round?

EDB
if i tell you i would have to ,

sorry don't know buddy

BT

BT

Could come up as a quiz question:o)

thats why i refused to say;0))

Thanks U C AND BT

BT was the pub not Sarsfields sat on a corner was never in it but they had a poster in window saying they showed all Celtic games.
Used to be a very big supporters club in Govan of all places called the PETER sARSFIELD but that was about 12stone ago.

Y I C

if wagner plays for cska..

who does mozart play for?

h.ooops is that another question?

BT

JTT
thats the one, the drogs who where over in motherwell where astounded of forehead that my brother in law managed to get out alive....

BT

Spartak Moscow. Easy peasy!

EDB

i was only thinking out loud.
sober to..

whats hi full name...?
no wiki please

JTT

We have been singing that song at away games for years... well a few lines before we forget the lyrics.

Another article on Platini.

If accurate the implications for Celtic are massive.

A wage cap!!!

Although Platini seems to be asking for EU backing he knows that he already has it! He is taking on the power he needs to act.

He says "I should remind you spurred on by "the reports of this parliament".

That is the Ivo Belet Report that shaped The White Paper on Sport. He also says the finacial crisis has raised fears of clubs imploding. So it might happen sooner rather than later.

This is very very hopeful for Celtic for it would signal an end to competing with clubs prepared to go into huge debt to buy players we might have fancied.

Article
The UEFA president warned that "the values that football represents are in danger" and told MEPs in Brussels that UEFA are considering enforcing a cap on the expenditure of clubs.

The 53-year-old former France captain also described the recruitment of overseas youngsters by Europe's top clubs as "exploiting child labour" and "child trafficking".

Platini has been an outspoken critic of the excessive spending of Europe's elite clubs - much of which is based on borrowed credit or the personal spending of wealthy benefactors - and insists it is the clubs themselves who have requested the move.

"European clubs are currently telling us that our system is in danger of financially imploding in the medium term," he said.

"In consultation with them, but also, I should remind you, spurred on by the reports of this parliament, we are currently looking at the idea of limiting, to a certain degree, a club's expenditure on staff - salary and transfer fees combined - to an as yet undecided percentage of its direct and indirect sporting revenue."

Platini hinted discussions over a salary cap were accelerated by one club's "astronomical bids" during the January transfer window. It is believed he was referring to Manchester City, who are owned by Sheikh Mansour's Abu Dhabi United Investment Group, and their bid for AC Milan's Kaka.

City tabled a reported bid of £90million (Euros 100million) for the Brazilian, offering wages in excess of £250,000 per week - but the playmaker opted to stay at the San Siro.

"During this year's festive season, one club which had suddenly become very rich made various astronomical bids in the transfer market," added Platini.

"Of course, there was a tremendous outcry in the football family, people called it outrageous and scandalous.

"Many people have responded by talking about limiting players' wages by introducing a European salary cap."

Platini stressed even the likes of Real Madrid and Manchester United - two of the world's leading clubs - are not immune to the global economic downturn and regulation must be put into force.

He added: "For the past 15 or 20 years, we have grown tired of hearing that there is no need to regulate, that the market regulates itself perfectly, that excesses and imbalances will disappear of their own accord, and that the growth of income in football is an endless upward spiral.

"We now know that none of this is true: that in football as in the economy in general, the market is incapable of correcting its own excesses, and it was not the UEFA president who said so, it was (United States president) Barack Obama."

Platini stressed this was "only the beginning of the discussion" and any legislation limiting spending would only come into force "on a consensual basis and with a view to strengthening this system".

The former Juventus playmaker pleaded with the European parliament to help UEFA in its bid to make football more financially stable despite labour laws which currently promote free trade.

"Whatever happens, please do not stop us, on the basis of inappropriate legislation, from establishing financial fair play," he added.

"Do not stop us from acting morally. Especially when all the stakeholders - clubs, players and national associations - agree with my proposals for greater financial transparency and better governance."

Platini also hopes to end the practice of recruiting talented children - according to the Frenchman, who cites the United Nations Convention, those under-18 - from overseas, which he believes is tantamount to "trafficking".

The UEFA president believes children have a fundamental right to grow up among friends and family.

"Free movement from the age of 16 considerably undermines training clubs and encourages international trafficking of children," he said.

"Most youngsters who are brought to Europe from third-world countries do not become Ronaldinhos or Eto'os.

"Often enticed by a shady agent, they stagnate for a few years in a semi-professional club in eastern or southern Europe, usually ending up with no qualifications, no future in sport and no identity papers, doing odd jobs for paltry wages."

He added: "I have thought about this problem a great deal and I am now convinced that the international transfer - yes international - of players under 18 should be prohibited, fully in accordance with the FIFA statutes.

"Some people talk about the free movement of workers. I am talking about the protection of children

http://msn.teamtalk.com/football/story/0,16368,2483_4938859,00.html

Is Are

ML2 venturing into the Jimmy Stewart Rifle Club?

Eitherwise mes is feartid ae the big smoke...

Scrivimmi presto

U

WGS 7:39

You did not finish your winter transfer window, or you have already opened summer transfer window?

Tomorrow is the game Lech Poznan v. Udinese Calcio. Today some reports say who will be at the game. I have heard about WBA, West Ham, Manchester City. Not heard about scouts from Celtic Glasgow.

Do you have a chance to see the game? It's at your 5 pm. unfortunately but I don't know if your TV shows it.

terry

thanks

BT

He's Brasilian but haven't a clue. IIRC something like Eduardo Da Silva but they're all called that somewhere in their name.

(Apologies to any lurking Brasilians of whom doubtless there will be many).

The sexes sin in different ways

oh deary dear they needed a jesuit theologian for that one?

Ding Ding

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7897034.stm

U

EDB

winners of villa/cska play winners of spurs/shakhtar

1 1 villa

I myself am an equal ops sinner...

... can you be ultra Pc when it comes to sinning?

I hope not.

U

Eustace

I had a vague recollection of the song Im at 95% of away games but hav,nt heard it been sung but it is a classic.

Y I C

Estadio

Are you now a multi cultural sinner?

Also, once in a sin bin - are all bets off?

U

BT

A veritable fountain of knowledge.

The odds are shortening on your quiz team by the minute.

Especially if oldtim sticks to pots of tea:o)

Paul, looking forward to the quiz and couldn't think of a more worthy cause than helping our friend in need.

I hope it's not too hard though. I am fully relying on my team-mates to get us into a good position!

EDB

Mozart Santos Batista Júnior

as per wikipedia..

cheatsrus.co.blantyre

Ah to be as intelligent as a pro football player...

" My parents have always been there for me, ever since I was about 7. "
David Beckham

"I would not be bothered if we lost every game as long as we won the league."
Mark Viduka

"Alex Ferguson is the best manager I've ever had at this level. Well, he's the only manager I've actually had at this level. But he's the best manager I've ever had."
David Beckham

"If you don't believe you can win, there is no point in getting out of bed at the end of the day."
Neville Southall

"I've had 14 bookings this season - 8 of which were my fault, but 7 of which were disputable."
Paul Gascoigne

"I've never wanted to leave. I'm here for the rest of my life, and hopefully after that as well."
Alan Shearer

"I'd like to play for an Italian club, like Barcelona "
Mark Draper

"You've got to believe that you're going to win, and I believe we'll win the World Cup until the final whistle blows and we're knocked out."
Peter Shilton

"I faxed a transfer request to the club at the beginning of the week, but let me state that I don't want to leave Leicester "
Stan Collymore

"I was watching the Blackburn game on TV on Sunday when it flashed on the screen that George (Ndah) had scored in the first minute at Birmingham . My first reaction was to ring him up. Then I remembered he was out there playing."
Ade Akinbiyi

"Without being too harsh on David Beckham, he cost us the match."
Ian Wright

"I'm as happy as I can be - but I have been happier."
Ugo Ehiogu

" Leeds is a great club and it's been my home for years, even though I live in Middlesborough."
Jonathan Woodgate

"I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel."
Stuart Pearce

"I took a whack on my left ankle, but something told me it was my right."
Lee Hendrie

"I couldn't settle in Italy - it was like living in a foreign country."
Ian Rush

" Germany are a very difficult team to play...they had 11 internationals out there today."
Steve Lomas

"I always used to put my right boot on first, and then obviously my right sock."
Barry Venison

"I definitely want Brooklyn to be christened, but I don't know into what religion yet."
David Beckham

"The Brazilians were South American, and the Ukrainians will be more European."
Phil Neville

"All that remains is for a few dots and commas to be crossed."
Mitchell Thomas

"One accusation you can't throw at me is that I've always done my best."
Alan Shearer

"I'd rather play in front of a full house than an empty crowd."
Johnny Giles

"Sometimes in football you have to score goals."
Thierry Henry

Why not a sin booth

with nugahyde seats and free coffee...

U

BT

Knew I could rely on you - to cheat!

That'd be another costly name on the back of a sellik jersey.

EDB

good job you aren't relying on me to stay sober?

There will be no cheating at the quiz - BlackBerries and iPhones will be banned. No googling or phoning a friend allowed!

Off topic.

Hope Sundays line up does not get picked to suit the pitch, not sure how you pick a team to suit an Ibroxesque field, but it has been mentioned before.

Gordon_j
phone a friend....aye right.....

Zybzsek,

Maybe somebody will be watching with regards Celtic.

Marek Cech agnet is Dr Jo's son. Would appear Dr Jo is loking out for us. Cech is a player by the way. Porto fans have been raving about him and were shocked when he got sold.

I like Dr Jo. Pity he left when he did. I wonder if a return in some capacity is on his cards with his prodgal son helping him out.

In light of recent Bank Manager confessions

Can we now have acceptable sin (Bonus negotiable)?

U

A wage cap will not solve the issue.

There are other ways of constructing a contract other than basic wage plus bonus.

GORDON J

Also should be a £10 charge for using toilets during QUIZ rounds.

Y I C

Has it fizzled out? Is it safe to return?

WWC

i have managed to fill the site with crap so yes, its safe to come back..i will retire now...

god bless and protect kano...

hail hail and keep the faith....

BT

Maurice Edu looks a real prospect.

I can see why they have wrapped him in cotton wool.

Jinkysboy

Check you email in 5 mins.

Good result for the tovarishi (although Villans played well). We did well to get past those guys...

Nafos - ml2 quiz bound?

Have bridies had a mention yet?

yummyyummycsc

WGS

"Maybe somebody will be watching with regards Celtic"
I hope so. I hope I'll be not the only one. You better take that Rafal Murawski the midfielder.

nafos

That's probably why the orcs were chanting his name at the weekend.

Uly ,

My ML2 Comrades are not too enthusiastic due to complete lack of knowledge in trivia matters. I will have another go and see what the response is.

Blantyretim - not without a little help surely? ;-)

Remember I am Mr Trivia...

... or I was 'til I sold the rights to an overweight, balding gent who wore shoes which had seen better days and clothes that had spent longer closer to him than in a washing machine - and he used car keys to pick his teeth.

Naw really I'm quite good at trivia stuff.

Watch...

Bucks Fizz!

Captain Scarlett!

The Bridges of Madison County and Clint Eastwood!

The Severn Bridge!

Esperanto!

Cynthia Payne?

Now - if we get questions that match!?!?

Also I've got a free pass.

U

Cognitive Dissonance - #27

Ulysses

Tripping - 2 mins in sin bin

Deliberate hitting puck (poor wee soul) out of play - 2 mins in sin bin

Violent Conduct (and that is a fully fledged street fight which the commentators give their views on) 5 mins in sin bin!

No banishment for any of the deadly sins unless carried out on the ice. - probably 2 mins in sin bin and the full round of morning telly sofa programmes.

Hail Hail

Estadio

BT yahoo home page has a link to the Man U game tonight.
This is what the match update say's at 57 mins.

"It is now 20 hours and 67 minutes since the home team conceded in the Premier League."

Am i the only one who sees it?

TinyTim

Another quiz question?

AaB 1 UP

Beasley and McCulloch off injured for the FOD

Shocking tackle on Beasley deservedly punished by straight red.

Estadio

In light of the ML2 Militia wimping out on me, and if i go to this quiz night alone - can we organise a live-sat link up for us to make a team?

I've already listed above most of the answers to things I know -

Except...

Paul Daniels' dog

Swarfega

The Isle of Bute

I'm raring to go...

U

Squire danaher

How did McCulloch manage that when he is injured?

QUIZ QUESTION:
Which one of our players got a ticket on their way home after Sunday's game.
My friend drove past him.
He obviously wasn't hanging around after the game.

John Grieg has broken a leg.

Bobby lennox's

It even pains me to spell his surname correctly.

Lee Naylor?

Also

Tripping - 2 mins sin bin -

and possibly an eternity in the blink of an eye... or (Wall) posters suddenly 3d and alive and trying to...

U

Not Naylor

McManus

Twas Aiden

Aiden

Brown

Friend could not believe it when they passed him.
So soon after the game.

Zbyszek
rafal murawski....which current midfielder is he comparable with?
is other clubs after him?
robert lewandowski....is he an out and out goalscorer?
cheers

TinyTim

McCulloch seemed to break down when off the ball, shouted to the bench to come off

3rd guess wizney bad.

AaB 2-0 up

2-0 Aalborg

Due 51m, 77m

Squire Danaher.

I men't how did he manage to get a straight red for a shocking tackle on Beasley.When he was injured.

poorjokesruscsc.

Aye well done Tiny.
He was obviously in a rush to get away.

.

I Thought None of or Players Turned Up on Sunday....

001

the word 'both' would have been an handy insertion in first sentence of 9.22 post

dontgiveupyourdayjob CSC

001 Bhoy
They turned up alright, and sideways and backwards just not forwards.

i see hutzi scored for zsp after 2mins

There'a a smashing article on ETIMS just now by The Don. "Why The Celtic Board Are Doing A Good Job".

Cannae be bothered with the linky thing but he'll be huckled away writing so positively.

Ulysess.

I am on your tail.

Chang kai shek.

Ronald Hunter

M6

Alexander Selkirk

King George V

Joe Pesci

Reginald Bishop & Val Barlow.

1963.

Apologies for the early typo. Couldnae get the boxing glove off:o)

Zybszek,

Have a look and see if there any interesting spectators are at the game tomorrow, you might find somebody, who you wouldn't think.

Gokan Inler for Udinese, craking midfielder.

Tinytim

I am saving, of course...

Oliver Postgate

Nana Maskouri

The Heimlich Manouevre

Cider with Rosie

Steve McFadden and dogging

Adolf Hitler's alsatian dogs

...

001

I havent seen the match from the weekend but I blame the mamager and his lack of attitude

Right now I honestly believe I could go into that dressing room
and motivate the team - or drop anyone not up to the job.

Horst Bucholz

Bob Holness (Out of Blockbusters)
Canberra
Pearl Harbour
The Ear

Gordon_J @8.37

Banning blackberries & the like is all very well but may not be sufficient.

As you know DBBIA is firmly of the belief that Modern Life Is Rubbish & so our plan is for him to smuggle in an entire set of the Encyclopædia Britannica up his dukes.

My role is to continually delay things by repeatedly asking you to repeat the questions while DBBIA, SFTB & Subterranean leaf through the pages desperately trying to remember whether "i" comes before or after "e".

Naturally this will all be done in such a secretive & surreptitious manner that no-one will suspect a thing...

seven fishes four steaks
Some time ago KrakowBhoy said that Lech Poznan is his favourite Polish team. Probably their style of football is the most similar to the style of Celtic play. I remember he gave four names : Stilic, Lewandowski, Peszko and Murawski. Murawski is central midfielder. His scoring ratio is not so high 1 goal for every 10 games but he is very dilligent player. His is good in forward play and very good in destruction play. Made huge progress in the last year. Werder Bremen were for him.
There will be WBA and Manchester City to see Lewandowski. Tomorrows game is puzzle for Lech. Polish clubs did not start spring round yet.

Uly, tinytim & NAFOS,

I think you'll find you missed out Nicholas Nicolas Brakespeare.

.

Jinkysboy....

Even I Think Were Pants....

I Will be on My Other email for the Rest of Day....Still Cant Talk....So Will Be Funny if l Get Many Calls....:o))))

And Ghaib is German so He is No Help....

001

Will email you in the Morning....

This brought back a ton of memories for me today when I was supposed to be working. It's all about the old bubblegum cards from the seventies.
1970s Bubble gum cards

Not many people know that Nicholas Brakespeare's middle name was Nicolas...

Dick Byrne,

There's nothing like a cunning plan. And that was nothing .....

Zbyszek thanks for your input. i like stilic alot but dont know too mush about peszko, any info would be good!!
i see huszti scored today for zenith. looks a good signing for them.
any word on sharbini getting a move?
sorry for all the questions!!!!

AaB 3-0
Not too shabby

Cognitive Dissonance - #28

Not a lot of people know that Evan Williams' father in law "Tottie" McLaughlin unsuccessfully attempted to teach me Art at the real St. Pats High School. Yep, Dumbarton.

Cue a post from Tontine Tim on this one!

GCC

Thanks for the Bubble gum cards.

Two of us (me and my sometimes-lurking mate) will be at the quiz. We might be roping in our other halves, but we might also be on our own and looking for another two people, if anyone is showing up without a team.

edb

what year did you leave st pats

The Telegraph is suggesting Rangers will escape punishment for their songs on Sunday because the club are perceived as having done everything in their power to prevent the problem.

Like all of us, I struggle to be even remotely impartial when it comes to the huns, but surely the fact that the club's so called best efforts (a subject for another debate) are not adequate should mean that it is time to come up with a proper deterrant ie points deduction. Anything else is carte blanche to the huns fans to continue so long as the club offer up a couple of token measures.

Hope this has not already been discussed.

neilybhoy

Ahem 1966.

Wish we still could delete our posts.

Lee Harvey Oswald/ The Texas Book Depository

Meryl Streep

His wife's head

Don Stracci, Don Cuneo, Don Tattaglia, Don Barzini and Moe Greene

Hugh Dallas

late 80s myself

Bryce Curdy

Are you drawing me in here:o)

It has been done to death all day!

Why would the SPL penalise their favoured team?

I've got loads more

loads more...

By riot survivor on February 18, 2009 6:06 PM

My father was one of the young fenians who took care to stay away from Bridgeton.:)

In the interests of clarification.

Whilst what you say is factually true UEFA deemed that in the context of its usage in Scotland Fenian meant Catholic and it was on this basis The Billy Boys and Rangers fell foul of UEFA.

I read something today I had forgotten about. UEFA found Rangers not guilty at first of sectarian singing v Villa Real. But for some reason an appeal was placed by UEFA on this decision.

http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/53/ or

http://www.uefa.com/uefa/Keytopics/kind=512/newsId=413514.html

The appeal
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/scottish/rangers-face-sanctions-for-sectarian-taunts-474691.html

was upheld but I can find no reason given. I think the first failure was on the fact you gave but the second decision was on the application of context or why else were Rangers done?

What is sure is Rangers were done for sectarian singing and it was The Billy Boys and that phrase that did it because lets face it it did mean up to our knees in Catholic blood and WAS sectarian.

neilybhoy

A wean then!

This Man Craig might be of your vintage. And The Godfather.

Like Tessio...

Eh?

Eh?

Eh?

are they vale bhoys or dumbarton bhoys

Bryce Curdy
El diego

It is not as cut and dried as the Telegraph suggests. I have copied earlier post on the subject.

Lubo1977
Here is something from the previous blog slightly amended that might help answer your question.

By Auldheid on February 18, 2009 12:08 PM
By Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo on February 18, 2009 11:52 AM

I think a clue to what is happening or not might be in a report in the Scotsman

http://sport.scotsman.com/sport/Rangers39-fate-over-39Famine-Song39.4990158.jp

that says the SPL are waiting for the delegate's report and do not wish to say anything for fear it would jeopardise their due process.

There is a system in place for dealing with this and Celtic will be watching it but not want to unbalance it.

The Scotsman said

Published Date: 18 February 2009
By Stephen Halliday
THE Scottish Premier League has played down suggestions it is poised to take action against Rangers for alleged sectarian chanting by some of their supporters during last Sunday's Old Firm fixture at Celtic Park.
It is understood that SPL match delegate Alan Dick will mention instances of songs and chants, including the controversial 'Famine Song', in his official report on the game which is expected to arrive at the governing body's Hampden offices today.

Dick, the former Motherwell and Partick Thistle secretary, previously reported Rangers supporters to the SPL for sectarian chants during the match against Inverness at the Caledonian Stadium in August 2007.

On that occasion, no disciplinary proceedings were raised by the SPL board following an investigation which noted the "extensive steps" taken by Rangers in campaigning against the element of its support engaging in discriminatory chanting or singing.

Rangers were also informed that a further occurrence of unacceptable conduct on the part of its fans "may lead to a reference to an SPL Commission and the risk of sanctions against the club."

Possible punishments include a fine or even the docking of points, but the SPL last night remained determined not to prejudice their own disciplinary procedure.
"This is all hearsay at the moment," said an SPL spokesman. "We have not seen the match delegate's report which we would expect to receive in the next 24 hours.

"As with a delegate's report from any of our fixtures, if there is an issue with crowd behaviour highlighted, then we will cross-check the details with the police in charge of the match and also speak to the clubs involved.

"We would then write to the clubs for further information before putting it to our board to consider whether there has been a breach of SPL rules."

End

There was a bit more about the RST response but its more of the same old whataboutery so not repeating

neilybhoy

Vale I believe.

edb
i prob will know them if they are my sort of age

edb
where in dumbarton you from

Auldheid

I see all that you post on both sites and respect your views on such matters.

For myself I'm torn between not renewing my season book due to being completely sickened by the abuse hurled at me at games held at Celtic Park by the hunnish hordes and alternately thinking I'll never give in to them.

At the minute I'll stick with it but I won't do that for ever more.

I'll give it a year or two then decide. If things remain as they are then it will be a no brainer.

By TerryO'Neill on February 18, 2009 7:05 PM

Are you saying Terry that even if Rangers have been doing everything possible (and they have come no where near that)that they should still be punished and the decison not to do so(on the grounds of Rangers efforts)in Aug 2007 after they were reported at Inverness is in fact a breach of FIFA rules?

Interesting angle to add to pile of reasons for being suspicious.

I think Rangers might face more difficulty getting into Europe if TFS is still on the SPL agenda for reasons I gave earlier and repeat here.

A bit of background info: The Irish MSP who visited Scotland Eoin Ryan to discuss TFS with the Scottish Government raised the matter of TFS with the EU Parliament.

http://www.eoinryan.ie/about-eoin/speeches/78-plenary-speech-on-racism-on-football

He did so apart from being Irish because he worked with Ivo Belet on the production of the report on The Future of Professional Football in Europe. The recomendations of this report including those on racism were adopted by the EU Parliament as part of its sports policy as set out in the White Paper on Sport. So not only does he have an interest as a representative of Ireland he knows the policy and will know the buttons to press if effective action is not taken.

He is the guy Rangers will have to convince they have done all they can to eradicate TFS if it continues up to the end of the season for he will have UEFA's ear because the EU made it quite clear UEFA is bound by EU Law and he helped set the policy for sport under EU law.

impose a points deduction

true supporters say ...we are doing all we can

do more...I SAY

highlight the racists /dont join in or silently condone what they do
Bain at Ipox advised against the singing of TFS ...he was drowned out by a chorus of it

their minority is not so small

we must eschew the OF tag ..stop allowing them to associate with us and everything thaT is good about us

put them out on their own for all to see

RECALCITRANT RECIDIVISTS

I mentioned soon after Paul's Irish post - that I felt this one would not get near enough to the carpet to get swept under - meaning they'll plain old ignore it.

Once again I and by default my family feel valued in this country.

Over the moon to be here - and it seems I'm just visiting (sic) - but it's clear my habitation is viewed as temporary at best and 'fleeting' at best.

Sic Gloria Transit Scotia...

neilybhoy

I'm in the Vale now where I was born but lived in Dumbarton East for a while.

edb

do you go into the station bar

EDB

NON ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM ...NEVER

Of topic:

Can any of you ghuys help with this one?

My wife needs to know a few large companies, preferably in the retail or manufacturing sector, which have their registered office in Scotland, but also employ a decent number of people in England and/or Wales.

All I have come up with so far are Scottish Amicable Life plc, Aviva Insurance Ltd, Scottish & Southern Energy and Scottish Power Ltd, none of which are in retail or manufacturing... and I can't even guarantee how much of a presence any of them have in England/Wales.

Any help appreciated, thanks.

ug

EPHEMERAL

Dick Byrne

I have my own tactics for the quiz night.

I intend to emulate the tactics of the Strathclyde Uni team entering University challenge in 1976. I will write down Shakespeare as the answer to every question on the grounds that I'm bound to get one right.

I do have a Plan B wherein I will answer Jinky/McGrory or Larsson when we have the Celtic round.

The Music answer will be Beatles/Led Zep or U2, and the TV soaps will be Dirty Den or Eddie Yeats.

I call that foolproof.

Shocking tackle on De Marcus Beasley

Neilybhoy Bathh/Vale

Some scurrilous individuals might suggest that EDB was from the Dumb bit of Dumb arton, but they would be better taking there low-brow humour to somewhere more fitting.

Hail Hail

Estadio (sitting in a Starbucks in Coquitlam because it's got free web access - and not because he empathises with Globalisation - just in case the Green Brigade are reading).

By the way, the petrol/gas out here is 90 cents a litre - circa 50p and they are well hacked off wae the extortionate prices!

By barcabhoy on February 18, 2009 4:32 PM

Ok I agree they have done something but it has clearly been ineffective.

You have drawn out my point that the real issue is not the TFS it is the culture/mindset that creates the songs.

And they did nothing to tackle that and that will ruin them eventually as the world is moving on. Somebody else said that today already.

Sooner or later folk will get fed up protecting how many 500, 1000? 2000?

So for the cost of Scotland's good name we let a very small number tarnish how we are perceived by the rest of the world just to protect Rangers? Sooner or later SDM is going to run out of favours.

Estadio

cava ?

I disagree with Graham Spiers' "white trash" tag. I think sectarianism goes a whole lot further up the classes.

neilybhoy

No but probably my brother has done or is doing.

We need to resurrect this another time or we'll get strange looks:o)

Take care.

Flight of the bumblebee!

Nobody ever gets that one.

In fact it took 7 series of mastermind for anyone to get it right!

Hail Hail

Estadio

auldheid

at that number they must be loud singers

there are more participants than they would have you believe

if it were such a paltry number they would have been silenced before now

The poet had it - such fades Scotland's glory

mine's was/is meant to be - such fades glory, Scotland

u

Estadio

Ye seem madder than before you left this green place.

Did you meet any of those Bears? Black, Blue or whitever.

Auldheid on February 18, 2009 10:37 PM

Thats exactly what am saying the exact quote leaves no doubt especially 2a and i quote

Article 58 Discrimination

1. a) Anyone who offends the dignity of a person or group of persons
through contemptuous, discriminatory or denigratory words or
actions concerning race, colour, language, religion or origin shall
be suspended for at least fi ve matches. Furthermore, a stadium
ban and a fi ne of at least CHF 20,000 shall be imposed. If the
perpetrator is an offi cial, the fi ne shall be at least CHF 30,000.
b) Where several persons (offi cials and/or players) from the same club
or association simultaneously breach par. 1 a) or there are other
aggravating circumstances, the team concerned may be deducted
three points for a fi rst offence and six points for a second offence;
a further offence may result in demotion to a lower division. In the
case of matches in which no points are awarded, the team may be
disqualifi ed from the competition.
2. a) Where supporters of a team breach par. 1 a) at a match, a fi ne
of at least CHF 30,000 shall be imposed on the association or
club concerned regardless of the question of culpable conduct or
culpable oversight.
b) Serious offences may be punished with additional sanctions,
in particular an order to play a match behind closed doors, the
forfeit of a match, a points deduction or disqualifi cation from the
competition.
Spectators who breach par. 1 a) of this article shall receive a stadium
ban of at least two years.
Section 4. Infringements of personal freedom
Article 59 Threats
Anyone who intimidates a match offi cial with serious threats will be
sanctioned with a fi ne of at least CHF 3,000 and a match suspension.
These sanctions constitute a departure

good night all hail hail

PF Ayr

Assuming the observation was aimed at me and not EN,

Don't know a Cava in Vancouver. Big in Toronto.

Having a Latte wae a wee saying on the side of the cup.

"People need to see that, far from being an obstacle, the world's diversity of languages, religions and traditions is a great treasure, affording us precious opportunities to recognize ourselves in others" - Youssou N'Dour, Musician.

Apart from the 'z' in what should be 'recognise', I can empathise wae that.

Estadio

Mrs EDB has just asked me if you ever came across a guy called Peter Cummings from an area of DUMB -Barton who has helped to contribute over 7 million pounds towards the HBOS debt?

I recall you telling me about your background hence the question.

Estadio

Get yourself to a Tim Horton's shop for coffee. A much better class of donut altogether.

I believe he was an ex Ice Hockey star too.

A wee Ice Hockey Song which also doubles as Walter's pre-match instructions to Lee McCullough.

hit somebody

Terry O'Neill,
good find, and its about "club's" the rules are simple and the Sectarian Football Association have ignored the rules of the game long enough.

the treble will have to do

hail hail

sftb

Tim Horton's

YumYum

p.s. Gordon_J needs to watch which coat he wears on the night:o)

Guys

We live in a country where WE are seen as the cause - ipso facto WE are culpable.

It really is just our fault.

We're the thing that is wrong. And we were tolerated better when we kept our mouths shut...

They'll keep finding songs, creating songs, or versions of songs, with which to taunt and attack us, with which to bend a law they're allowed not to break...

... It makes me wonder what would have happened (To us all) if Celtic had went burst - as it could have...

U

EDB,

I tell you, there I was picking my steps through 'Turner's Creek', trying not to warn Yogi, Boo Boo and Pooh of my impending approach when I inadvertently stepped on a dried up fir twig, snapping it like the recoil of a Winchester.

The world, me and my sister stood still as the ricochet of sound caused the avalanche of snow and white mud (The Canadian term for slush) to termble pendulously on the edge of the overhanging trees and mountain ridge.

I turned to see sister, standing, listening and breathing a sigh of relief as the forest returned to it's sleepy winter repose.......except there as she stood.....she copuldn't see it and though I couldn't see it all because she was partially blocking the view, was a horrible horrible sight.

My contorted expression must have given me away.

Fear returned her face and she screamed " what is it? Tell me, tell me!"

I stuttered, spluttered and pointed tremulously.

"There! There! You've got a bear behind!

Belive me you never want to see yer sister wae a bear behind!

Hail Hail

Estadio

Ulysses,
the world is getting too small for them to keep it under wraps, if they choose to put their team out of the game where will they get the opportunity to continue:oD

the treble will have to do

hail hail

ulysses

I made a simple statement earlier. I won't tolerate as an individual being abused at my club's home ground by these degenerates.

If my club can't or won't protect me then I will not be there.

I've tolerated this for far too long. No more.

Sleepy baw baws for me

... teamless for the quiz night, friendless for the quiz night, brainless for the quiz night.

ah well guess I'll give LA Confidential by Lorenzo Amoruso a read through that night...

...U

El Diego Bhoy

You're right that Sunday's chants from our rivals have been discussed extensively, but (and I may have missed it) I don't think my own perspective had been mentioned.

SFTB/EDB

Tim Horton's does the best Chilli in the northern hemisphere.

Hail Hail

Estadio

By PF ayr on February 18, 2009 10:51 PM

Cheers I was throwing figures off the top of my head. My point though is that the population of Scotland is 5 million so as a percentage of the adult population the hard core huns are small.

They bring embarrassment on Rangers and embarrassment on Scotland and yet a blanket of protection is thrown around them. Its like they (The Scottish Protestant part of the community) have a sick kid in the family but do not want to talk about it even though they could get help if they did.

Estadio

Who clearly isnae enjoying himself.

I miss the Slabbery Wummin posting.

Thought she was mare intae cognisive dissonance.

Guys - just read the your last posts - I agree - I was being pithy
(A la Traynor et al)

Because the business end of the stick trades in a different thoroughfare.

They will get they're wrists slapped (If at all) - but come the day the shit falls on Govan - then woebetide us - because it goes from Get Boruc - to - Get Celtic

because their tolerance runs along the lines of - just deal with it, or else.

It's the or else I'm worried about.

U

By lanarkcelt on February 18, 2009 10:49 PM

I disagree with Graham Spiers' "white trash" tag. I think sectarianism goes a whole lot further up the classes.

Exactly.
It suits Spiers and others agenda to proscribe to the "white trash" section of their support.

Would they consider the Board of Rangers, the journalist fraternity and all the other apologists of Them, including the "decent" ones that everybody seems to know,as "white trash"?

Spiers is doing a mammoth job of protecting his club, while at the same time, not trying to defend the indefensible manifestations of it's inbred ethos.

To say that there are decent Rangers supporters is similar to saying that there were decent Nazis.

Some just wear better quality of mask than others.

Of course, I'm just a bigot, ain't I?

Sorry if the debate has moved on from what I am about to post.

I have had a fear for a while now, of Celtic becoming an also ran of European football(we must now be viewed as a backwater). For the best part of two seasons now I have not been comfortable in the direction the club has been heading and this season my fear has come true.

First the playing side- It was obvious to me that we where steadily regressing in terms of player quality out on the field. I have been extremely critical of our manager for a number of reasons. However the poor standard of player brought(or at least they appear to be on the surfuce) was by far and away head and shulders the main reason for my critique of WGS. I still have my doubts weather a great many of the players bought by WGS had failed just purely on the basis of not being good enough. I think in many instances their have been personality clashes and in other a failure on WGS's part to get the best from them.

Second the financial side- While as fans we can always dream of marquie signings. The reality is we are not at the races. However I feel the club has done little to allay our ambitions in the transfer market. Although PL and Celtic don't go into specifics, they have said enough to imply their ambitions are bigger than they can possibly be. Perhaps lied to would be to strong a word but certainly I feel we have been mislead. As fans our ambitions where allowed to sore however the reality was far different, I guess if we are honest with ourselves we pretty much knew the score, however it would have been nice for the Celtic to be transparent with us.

The fact is we are going backwards and have been for a while now, I am not sure how much further we can regress. It's not a matter of others getting better it's us allowing ourselves for one reason or another to be brought down to the rest of the SPL's level.

Now no matter what our financial situation is. The fact is we still pay the biggest wages and have outspent the other sides in the SPL. For that extra ependiture you would expect us to see a much better product out on the park.

I started this post saying we are now a club looked upon as playing in a poor European backwater. However if we continue to regress as we have been then European football period may soon become a thing of the past.

Perhaps some will see this as doom and gloom however from my poit of view it is just realism of where we are and if not carefull of where we may be heading.

By TerryO'Neill on February 18, 2009 10:55 PM
Thanks for that. I've taken a copy.

Is there a process for drawing FIFA's attention to non compliance or even telling the SPL they are already in breach?

Bryce Curdy

Agreed.

Thanks for your good company recently.

Regards

Ulysses,
I have no worries on that score, when their focal point goes then they will become fragmented and disappear, like our original 9IAR, they disappeared and started supporting their local teams, till their team got stronger, then they regrouped. If they try it under the banner of the orange walk, I think it will quickly become see by the population for what it is.

the treble will have to do

hail hail

canamalar

interesting, and very thought provoking, point

it might just be about the masts they tie their colours to

thanks for that one

u

Would love to be at the quiz on Saturday night but I'll be travelling again. I'm sure it will be a great success, Gordon, Paul et al.

Are there any CQN-ers who watch the games in New York City? I fancy watching Saturday's game when I'm passing thru there and intend to go to the Parlour Bar. Let me know -- always better to watch in good company.

Sorry not been on much at all lately. It was the Podium in January wot done it; all anti-climax thereafter.

By Ellbhoy on February 18, 2009 11:23 PM
I know where you are coming from but there are forces that are already at work in the EU, UEFA and Club Owners because of the crunch that will alter the football landscape. They will not get us competing with top top clubs but they will offer an opportunity for clubs like Celtic to compete better than we do now.

I posted something earlier on Platini if you scoll back. He has the EU and club owners behind him and a wage cap is more possible in the coming year than it has ever been. This will help us.

EDB,

Slabbery wummin still in one of the million malls in this mulyi-verse of malls.

Earlier conversation between said Slabbery Wummin and man in Canadian Postal Service!

"How are you today madam?"- The accent was clearly Balkanised, but the diction and pronunciation was excellent. Which to be fair was more than could be said for the fair Slabbery W.!

"Magic pal. Dae ah jist pit these postcards in the post-box - they're fur Scotland - or dae ah need tae pit them somwhere else?"

"Ah Schottland! That will be a buck 50 for each card Madam".

"Aye, that'll be shining bright! They're pre-paid to anywhere in the world."

"No Madam only Canada. If you post them they will be sent back tomorrow to here"

"Look. See that where it says - 'post in Canada delivered anywhere in the world' - in English and French and ah'll go an' get a translation into Bosnian, Serbo-croat or 'bleepin' outer mongolian, it will still say the same! Now if ah come back in the morra an' these cards are returned will ah be able to have a quiet word wae ye again?"

"leave it with me madam.If you give me the cards here, I personally will make sure that they are sent post haste"

"Is that better than air-mail? Ah'll jist come in anyway the morra, jist tae make sure mind ye"

Schottland 1 Canadian Post office 0.

Hail Hail

Estadio

Bhoys,

Do any of you remember the "RATTLER IN A HOOPY SUIT" article in the Sunday Herald last year.

Well the author, Stephen Penman was sort of dismissed by the paper, then he was installed as deputy editor shirtly afterwards.

Now our Mr Penman has just been appointed to the post of "Head of Corporate Communications and Marketing" with North Lanarkshire Council.

His new post pays £75,000 per year.

Not too bad, for Stephen then.

Martin.

Lhondondave

If NYBhoyCFC hasn't clocked your post yet then he will soon.

He's a great guy and will look after you. No probs. Possibly the Parlour but not sure on the venue.

He won't let you down for sure!

By ElDiegoBhoy on February 18, 2009 10:35 PM

I am fairly confident that Celtic will act on the latest events but are staying their hand for fear of jeopardising the SPL process. John Reid picked his time to speak out last time and he will do so again. Without fear or favour - He IS scary. LOL

The genie is out the bottle and it aint going back in.

Really don't give a monkey's as to what the huns sing or, for that matter, what anybody sings. It's footie, get over it !

Only interested in our lot putting in a performance for once.

The 3-3 game from 2002 was on hun tv tonight. Larsson, Thompson, Sutton, Hartson, Balde......need I go on ?

We're watching pure dross now. Pure dross.

martin42,
its amazin the doors that will open by a simple wee sectarian comment eh

the treble will have to do

hail hail

Auldheid

I will have a gander at your post.

From what I know Platini is trying to level the playing field. Smaller player squads (not such a good idea IMO) and capped spending/wages (very good idea IMO)

I hope something does happen, however I think the all powerfull club's will find ways to halt Platin's plans. Money talks and unfortunately there is to much of it floating about amongst the EPL and some of Europes elite.

We should not be counting on outside influences to level the playing field we should be doing more as a club to lessen the gap or at least stabalize.

Estadio

Wouldn't have expected anything less.

You and the SW seem very relaxed. Great.

KTF.

Hugh Maxwell...,
so you dont mind being insulted eh, its football eh, but you'll squeal like a wee pig if someone on here calls you a hun, a bit of consistency.

the treble will have to do

hail hail

By Ellbhoy on February 18, 2009 11:41 PM
No that is what has changed.

Read the latest on Platini and you will see. Go to E Tims and check The Land Of Should that sets out the forces at play and predicted three weeks ago what has happened this week and last.

I've been following the Europoean political dimension for three years nearly. Its all coming out per EU Government policy and their concerns for football, although the crunch has brought the big clubs on side. Its all at E Tims.

Lhondondave

As ElDiego says, PJBhoy is yer man for that, but as it goes, I will be in New York for the St Mirren game too. Will be going to the Parlour, West 86th at Broadway if you didn't know. User name with no underscore at googlemail if you want to get in touch before then.

martin42

Maybe I am misremembering here but I thought the "bead rattler" comment in the Sunday Herald was by Kenny Hodgart. He was dismissed but turned up later in the employ of the Herald. I remember writing to The Herald to complain about their sister paper and the reply was "Nothing to do with us, guv! We're separate papers."

At the time, the Herald defence was plausible but I cannot help feeling Kenny H wasn't sacked so much as placed on sabbatical until a fuss died down.

For what it's worth, I actually approve of the lad being given a second chance to be more careful with his "humour" but the newspapers in question could have acted more honestly.

Is this the same incident or was this Penman character guilty of another offence?

Paddy Mccourt folks....

turns in another excellent performance for the reserves,yup i know! it is only a reserve game but do you think this lad has got what it takes to step up to the next level?
fitness looking better.....i wanna see him feature in the not so far future ...he has certainly got 'something'

Bryce

If you're still up - you have mail

All else - my thanks again and God Bless you all.

Let's win this league!

U

How good is it that CFC supporters worldwide can get together in the space of an hour or less to watch a game?

Wish I was going to NYC. Enjoy .

I see the so-called worst team we've ever lost to in European football managed to beat Deportivo 3:0 tonight. Maybe this is the worst Spanish generation of footballers for 30 years too? But then, how do we explain their Euro Championship win last year?

sftb

You're bang one there. Penman was Sports Editor so it happened under his watch, but yes, it was Kenny Hodgart's by-line. The apology went...

Sunday Herald Sport
An apology
IN AN article headlined Fans fail to show Celtic class with Strachan slating' for last week's Sunday Herald, Kenny Hodgart used the following sentence: "Some fans would probably rather have a bead-rattling Hoopy the Huddle Hound in the dug-out."
The use of the term "bead-rattling" is clearly unacceptable in a quality newspaper. Indeed, it is clearly unacceptable in any context and in any walk of life.
The Sunday Herald's stance on bigotry and sectarianism is clear: as a newspaper we have consistently and systematically challenged prejudice wherever we have found it. We have written dozens of articles - in the sports section, in the news section, in opinion and debate and in the magazine - condemning those who continue to perpetuate sectarianism and praising the considerable efforts of both Celtic FC and Rangers FC, among others, to stamp it out.

Religious bigotry continues, however, to be a blot on the landscape of Scottish football and also in wider society. There has been huge progress in recent years, but there is still more to be done before we can consider ourselves a truly united society.
Kenny Hodgart will no longer write a column for the Sunday Herald. I have also instigated an investigation to discover how this unacceptable terminology was able to get through our production system.
The Sunday Herald would like to take this opportunity to apologise unreservedly for any offence caused by the use of this phrase and assure our readers that we are treating this matter extremely seriously.
Stephen Penman, Sports Editor

Martin42, as sftb said, the article was by Kenny Hodgart, who was a freelancer as opposed to a Herald employee. Stephen Penman was the sports editor at the time, who commented publically on Hodgart's article after the reaction hit the press.

I strongly suspect his new position came at the right time for him as the employment/redundancy situation at the Herald wasn't exactly pleasant recently, if anyone is aware of the bizarre things going on there (google "herald redundancies" for some background info).

Actually lhads,
I was the one who jumped to the conclusion that penman was the culprit, Martin42, only stated he got the job.

the treble will have to do

hail hail