Flogging a dead central defence

Some things in life are bad,
They can really make you mad,
Other things just make you swear and curse.
When you're chewing on life's gristle
Don't grumble, give a whistle.
And this'll help things turn out for the best

we need a spine

1ST?

denied...

Paul67, Are the board putting any pressure on the SFA with regard to their overdue answer on the criteria for the review panel?

Anyone at present posting on the blog, is more alert and reacting quicker than our 1st Team players

Well done All

WGS interested in Robson and Mark Wilson apparently, not the two names I was hoping to be mentioned:-(

http://www.middlesbrough-mad.co.uk/news/loadnews.asp?cid=TMNW&id=471916

Edingurgh Celt,

If you manage to dream up an answer then I'll get back to you tonight.

allgreen

I think UEFA are to meet on Thursday

Good point Paul. While the defence was rightly praised during most of the O'Neill era, I always thought it was so good because Lambert and Lennon regularly cut out the danger before the ball even got to the last third.

Lambert and Lennon. Nice ring to it. Almost lends itself to a managerial partnership....

Frankly, Loovens is the only one of our three regular CBs that I would persist with.

If Caldwell isn't going to sign a new contract I would try to get some money for him in January. And McManus can go for any decent offer.

Top of the shopping list must be an international class centre back with pace and heading ability. We should be able to find one of sufficient ability who is within our price range and willing to come to Scotland.

By vmhan on November 9, 2009 12:17 PM
The Token Tim on November 9, 2009 11:50 AM
FrankieBhoy,

please don't start the Owen Coyle debate again!!!

************************************************
Don't listen to him Frankiebhoy lets move on to any debate but the current one :¬)

HH

vmhan (FTLT),

Aye actually you are right. New article, New Debate.......please???

HAIL! HAIL!
Token

We need a new manager. As much as I recognise the difficulties in getting rid so early, I fear it's now vital.

Every week the team changes, with little of no regard for the previous result. The midfield looks bad? It's shuffled. The midfield looks good? Still shuffled.

The manager has no idea of his best, or indeed (and most worryingly) most profligate team, and that is a problem.

Whilst Billic is still available, I'd be making overtures.

/p

here here vmhan

Hve to get rid of the Marx Brothers at the back.

McManus and Caldwell are two of the worst centre backs to get a regular game in my lifetime and I have seen McNally, Whyte,McKay, Baillie, McDonald etc.

Shows how fickle we can be. Afte a nil nil it's strikers we need, after a 3-3 it's centre backs.
In truth it's both.

BT we need to build a team roon that spine.

Hows yir head?

HH

TheGreenCitizen, no info.

Lisbon Lions Upper, agree, Lambert and Lennon did the job very well.

Paul67,

I received an email this morning that got me thinking (don't even start BT!), but basically it was along the lines of 2 and a half games of Caldwell and Loovens at centre-half - 0 goals.
45 mins with Stephen back - 3 goals.

Hmmmmmm as someone is wont to say!

HAIL! HAIL!
Token

PS - look at their 2nd and 3rd goals again from yesterday and have alook at out captain's positioning!

PPS - Lurgan53, Sorry, but it had to be said mate.

What was the reason for dropping Crosas?How did Fortune stay on the whole game he was woefull

How come we got away with Caldwell and McManus when
WGS was manager?

Do you not see something else in formation that
has caused the collapse?

If you don't have another look.

HH

Prestonpans Bhoys,
Yes that was another issue I have. Change it like for like. It doesn't upset the balance.

Emjay.

From previous thread....

Hi Guys,
I was at the game yesterday. I heard an individual or two shout hail hail during the minute's silence but nothing more. overall we observed it pretty well.

To the game - not happy to see Crosas out of the starting line up. i thought Tony was starting to get it right but his formation yesterday was once again tinkering beyond tinkering!

The big issue for me is we cannot play two wingers. On Thursday against Hamburg I thought we looked more solid in the middle as we had Robson, Crosas, N'Guemo and McGeady. One natural winger.

I think Tony needs to always have a solid 3 in the midfield. His choices?
Robson, Crosas, Zhi, Brown and N'Guemo and choose one creative winger from McGeady, Maloney, McGinn and McCourt.

2 wingers leave our middle pairing with too much to do and we regularly look exposed.

My own choice would be from left to right Mcgeady, Crosas, N'Guemo and Robson(beats Zhi at present coz I prefer his dig)although I think Zhi will eventually replace Robson.
No place for Brown at the moment.

Start consistently playing the same midfield and results will come.

3 solid midfielders and a winger please Tony.

Do not tinker!

A frustrated Emjay

canamalar (from last thread) - what is 'political' about disrupting a minutes silence? It takes a certain mentality to even think about doing that. That kind of anti-social behaviour is one step away from random violence. Would you defend someone going in to a church during a funeral and bursting into song?

Folk who are politically motivated can easily co-ordinate a protest that is appropriate to their ideals by using a bit of intelligence. Only mentally challenged people behave like Neanderthals.

Paul67, Thanks for the reply. I have a feeling this could prove to be a big can of worms worth opening.

How many of the current first team would we be happy to sign from another club on current form.

The keeper and not a lot else.

As far as I'm concerned we have no leader and no real heroes.
Buy a solid spine and thing should get better. Persevere with what we have and watch 30,000 cringe each week.

Paul67

Could you do me an obligement and pass my Mail Address to PF Ayr.

Thank You.

I have to say I wouldn't be worried if Robson and Wilson went.
Robson is a grafter who is good against physical teams but how many physical teams are we going to play in a season? If we are going to change our style and become a more attractive team to watch I think Robson has to go.

To sell...
M Brown, Mick, Wilson, Robson, Flood, Mizuno, Killen, Hutchinson, Sheridan.

I'd also add Broonie and Caldwell to that list if we found a suitable quality replacement.

Can we please talk about football on this blog?

The last one is still sitting there for those who really must continue the same arguments that have been going on for what feels like weeks now.

Can we move on from the minutes silence debate I think all opinions have been covered

Jasebhoy

Yes indeed Sure Josie Sure was a good winner thanks.

Cypbhoyo
glad you got saturdays winner.
Yes this poppy debate is depressing.Especially the abuse being dished out.
I am biting my lip and trying not to get involved.

I am backing one horse today its called Simla Sunset in the 4.10 at wolves.Bit of an outsider and I am just hoping it can show some of the promise it had as two year old.
It was trained in Ireland by David Myerscough and was highly thought of.But lost its way and had a few setbacks and is running at a big price in a relatively poor race.You never know

The Spirit of Arthur Lee - Blessed are the cheesemakers

Also on our three goals we lost yesterday..
Why when we lose possession in the midfield is there no one willing to foul the opposition before he gets to our box?

Take a booking for the team. Every other team seems to make sure when there is danger it gets stopped instantly. Not us. We back off till it's too late.
Yellow card or a goal lost? Not a difficult one.

Emjay

paisleybhoy1965

Hard lines mucker :¬)

CQN Naps update Scroll BY;

Only yours truly with any success at the weekend.

Twists n turns +£11.37
Jimtim +£6.37
Che + £3.00
-------------------------------
Raymac level
-------------------------------
Wolfetonesbhoy -£6.60
Fleagle -£6.75
TTT -£7.00
Captured -£7.50
Mackybhoy -£7.75
----------------------------------
All -£12
Chris 1888
Gourockbhoy
PF Ayr
TTTT
--------------------------------------

By Vinibhoy on November 9, 2009 12:27 PM
I have to say I wouldn't be worried if Robson and Wilson went.

I have to say there is no current Celtic player that i would be worried if they left. Whilst there are some i'd prefer to go a.s.a.p., and some who i'd prefer to stay, not one player is irreplacable at the moment.
Yesterday showed what zero debt buys you!

From the last post.

Lhads and lhassies, why are we still fighting among ourselves about poppies and minute's silences, it's a non-story. No-one broke the law, no CS gas was required and we are not subject to a UEFA enquiry, do we really care what Daily Mail readers and the like think of us. Let's move on, there are much more important problems at the moment for our club.

I'm not sure when our so called Generation of Domination began, most of us would think it was when Martin O'Neill took over in the summer of 2000, following the Barnes debacle.

The Barnes debacle has to be looked at when comparing the current state of the club.

Tony's team has played 11 league matches. We are top of the table . We have won 7, drawn 3 and lost one of those 11 matches. 24 points. Rangers have played 10 and have 22 points.

After 11 league matches John Barnes' team had won 9, and had 27 points. Rangers had played 10 at the same stage and had 28 points.

Tony has had 21 competitive matches, of these we have won 9 games losing 7. John Barnes' Celtic won 15 of their first 21 matches and lost 6.

Statistics can be used to prove anything so these don't necessarily prove that one manager is better than the other but Tony's record gives no impression that our Generation of Domination is about to be reinstated.

Barnes' 12th league match was at Ibrox. We led 2-1, and were playing fantastic football when the Huns got a dodgy penalty just before half time when Albertz smashed into Paul Lambert. We lost Paul Lambert and the game 4-2. This was a month after losing Henrik. We never recovered.

Now most of us, myself included, were never convinced that John Barnes was the right man for Celtic but we scored goals, and we beat inferior SPL opposition. We even beat Hapoel Tel Aviv home and away.

Paul67 you stated when the appointment was made that Tony was not your choice, do you believe you have now been proved correct that Tony was not the best choice. Interestingly Owen Coyle has the same win percentage as Tony this season. For those who point out that Burnley haven't had difficult matches against Arsenal and Hamburg in Europe, we haven't had to play Man U , Liverpool , Chelsea and Man City. Steven Fletcher 6 goals from 14 appearances. Marc-Antoine Fortune, 2 goals from 8 appearances. And Fletcher wasn't worth the money in January.

The silence from the boardroom and Peter Lawwell shaking his head whilst pocketing £750k are what we should be arguing about.

Gary67 - "Yesterday showed what zero debt buys you!"

Not really. This isn't the most talented Celtic team of the last decade, but they're capable of much better than yesterday's performance, and should have won handily against a team assembled on considerably less resources which is currently rooted to the floor of the league table.

We could easily give the manager, say, another £4m to spend and see him blow it on a player not worth the cash.

(I hope we do spend money in January and spend it wisely, just making a point that if spending money guaranteed successful outcomes, we'd probably still have Gravesen and Jarosik in our midfield).

Okay Class, its time for us to practice our verbs

We was mince
We are mince
We will be mince

repeat .....

thankfeckiminexile csc

M

Paul,,,,, That was one of the worst perfomances I have seen from Celtic for a long time

As you rightly say the centre backs are not good enough, McManus and Caldwell are ten a penny in the Championship. Their biggest problem is they are not quick enough.

I have mentioned before that I live in Rotherham and am a season ticket holder at Sheffield United.

Killgallon is not that particularly good in the air,but is very quick over ten,fifteen yards. Play the central defenders further up the park, this will help solve the mid field problem.

Which of Falkirks three goals were the cause of Caldwellor McManus not being able to get of the ground.

I was so looking forward to watching McCourt start a game..

What a disappointment.
,

The players in the starting line up yesterday would probally have been a first team pick for any other SPL team at the weekend(except maybe the huns).So it must be the manager thats doing something wrong

cardiffbhoy - "do we really care what Daily Mail readers and the like think of us"

They always speak highly of you. (thumbsup)

Re: yesterday. Nobody died and we're not pregnant, so let's move on.

Was it really a decade ago that Barnes and Dalglish breezed into Celtic Park? I'm feeling old.

stars
cheers will be on
hh

A wee moment of light relief from the Herald Diary:

"GERRY McDade, author of fans’ book Celtic – The Supersonic ’70s, told a dinner in Ayr at the weekend that new father Wayne Rooney, the Man Utd star, wanted to name his son after his favourite Beatle Paul McCartney. Wife Coleen put her foot down as the thought of her boy with the nickname Macca didn’t fit well with his surname."

Well I thought it was funny ...

and to stick my size 10's into a thorny one

There is precious little point in complaining about the morons during the silence yesterday, they dont understand and never will, they are probably the same people who complain about the Hun and their bigoted fans

they make me sick

M

ExiledBhoy - Romani ite domum, 100 times.

Vinibhoy

That's a long list and unfortunately I would like to add anothe in Naylor.

We have a squad large in numbers but low on ability.
I watched yet again as players earning the best money in Scotland couldn't control the ball, make a simple pass or had real passion.

In truth we won't be able to get rid of the player unless we pay them, which will have a effect on the transfer budget.

If TM is going to be allowed to bring in his players the sooner the better.Folk can argue that TN isn't getting the best out of what he has and I agrre to an extent.
Most of the current squad are now letting down a second manager.

My worry is that withou reserve games the players who look decent at youth level have nowhere to improve.
Maybe we should consider a feeder clud?

Thought we had left that debate there is always one

Although BTM was not my choice for manager, I honestly felt that even he, with the squad he inherited, ought to be able to get them playing football decent enough for us to be walking this league.
With purchases that looked like improving the squad, MAF, N'Guemo, and Fox, my early impressions were good. However, after the first couple of games we seem to have reverted back to the dismal fare that was on show all too often last season. I could have accepted that if the overall trend were still looking positive, but we seem to be floundering and I am seeing no real signs of an underlying strategy by BTM. Very worrying as I don't believe that turfing him out this quickly is going to help much either. Some fairly major events need to happen in January for this to be rectified, and I am not confident that such events WILL happen. Depressing!

I have seen worse celtic teams tactically and skill wise. But I struggle to remember a worse team in commitment, energy and desire.

The board can do two things in my view.

They can decide that money is set aside to back the manager and a clear out is begun. However who would want some of the dross we have at our disposal.

Alternativley they can decide to keep the players and get rid of the manager. It is obvious something is rotten at the club and the players for whatever reason are not playing for the manager.

I personally favour option 1.

This is getting worse by the week and as january approaches we must get rid of the players who are holding us back.

It will not be pretty but necessary.

The huns are 2 points behind with a game in hand. It says it all.

Finally as someone at the game yesterday i refrained from commenting on some of the posters discussions on the poppy debate.

Frankly yes not good singing but the reaction on here by some was ott. Sorry lads your not the celtic fans i recognise every week.

Calling fellow celts scum etc is pretty poor. At least they are there in this time of complete and utter dross.

It was young lads not scum.

Hail Hail

steinreig.....,
I left an answer on thre last thread for you, I'd rather not carry on the wee free meeja agenda here, but as long as there are Celtic supporters willing to sanction fellow supporters in line with the wee free meeja agenda, I will support their right to protest whether I agree with them or not.
The rest of you apologists just tug yer locks and do as you are bid, I'm sure your masters will reward you.

TimJim

My point illustrated perfectly

clearly you can be counted amongst those who will never understand, yesterday the entire watching world got to witness the sectarian bigotry of a minority of so called Celtic fans, bigotry that now marks all of us

Now whats more important than that, football? I dont think so

Shaunbhoy - Look on the bright side though.

* Compared to a few months ago, considerably less SuBo news.

* Smeato has added the ability to look into something, and get back to you to his classic "set aboot you" skill set.

* David Sneddon in hiding.

* Michelle McManus still big and beautiful. (thumbsup)

I don't know if Loovens was replaced by McManus because of injury, but I do know we lost three goals when he and Caldwell were our central defensive partnership in the second half.

canamalar,
why not just get one of the adults to post for you? That way you can blame them for your posts being so embarrasingly puerile?
A minute's silence once a year for people who died ensuring we have a country to play our football in is not too much to ask. Get over it.

AndyM 10:37 on last thread

The teams you have mentioned certainly were all stinkers. The current team though I think is on par at least with all of them.

I think what really gets me about the current crop is the lack of effort, and passion. It used to be (only 6, or 7 years ago)that teams coming to Parkhead had to confront 60,000 screaming fans, which also seemed to get a reaction out of the Celtic players. The Celtic players used to walk onto the pitch like they were invincible. For so long, they were. Even away games resulted in the opponents automatically going into defensive mode right from the kick off.

Now, there is no fear factor. No passion, and a lack of quality. The biggest difference between today's tream, and the one's you have mentioned is that the opposition today is weaker than it has ever been, and we still can't beat them. I wish I could find something positive to say here. The best I can come up with is to join the bring back Crosas arguement. He and N'Guemo seem to provide a little bit of stability that helps to cover our woeful defense.

Hail Hail

Paul67,

I've had enuf.

At the end of this season, i'm taking my money out - and its quite substantial - i'll review it after i see the commitment shown in January, but at the moment i've had enough. If the teams not improved and the slackers out the team - then i'm putting my cash, where i can enjoy a day out with friends and business colleagues.

I know more guys who are thinking the same.

Peter Lawell - pay attention.

Tojo.

A little ditty to sing on Thursday.

"Today's the day the bears get their ass kicked"

I sure everyone can work out the tune.

ExiledBhoy
As I said before lets just drop the subject

owen - Is it the Dallas theme tune?

Tojo - Lawells too busy counting his bonus ala Scrooge McDuck to pay attention.

Token Tim (12:24pm): "PS - look at their 2nd and 3rd goals again from yesterday and have alook at out captain's positioning!"

I have been regularly appalled this season by the total lack of spatial awareness of our defenders, and their abject inability to mark opposing players.

It's basic schoolboy stuff. At any primary school match you can hear the PE teacher shouting "don't ball watch, pick up the man!". Yet our highly paid professional players are guilty of ball watching time after time after time... and leaving the opposition players to run through unchallenged.

I think the manager and his coaching staff have to shoulder some of the blame as they should be coaching their players to defend properly (in all areas of the pitch), the basic premise of which is making sure that opponents are marked and/or that the space into which they are running is defended.

Now whilst I might struggle to put this perfectly into practice, I am 45 and well past it... but the Celtic players are all in their physical prime and paid upwards of half a million pounds a year to play football, so the least they can do is get the primary school football basics right!

There was something about the performance yesterday. Sure we looked tired and disfunctional but it was more than that. I think the real problem was that we only got back into the game through flashes of ability. Almost playing by instinct rather than to any plan or strategy.

Hardly anything worked well yesterday and we were outplayed and out thought all over the park. How could this happen?

The players were pretty much all poor with only a couple of notable exceptions. It has to be down to the manager. The team were rudderless. When things fundamentally aren't going well on the park, players can do very little to change this. They can have moments of inspiration but if the general trend is flawed this will continue.

I can't believe I'm saying this already but I honestly believe that the time is up for Tony Mowbray. I have a lot of respect for the big man but, for whatever reason, he strikes me as being fundamentally incompatible to his current job. The time to act is now rather than letting this simmer on with the potential of losing the league to perhaps the worst Rangers side for twenty-odd years.

philvisreturns

Got it in one :-)

The dance floor remix would be

"Today's the day the teddy bears get their ass kicked"

Cardiffbhoy,

I think its only fair when comparing Barnes and Mowbray that you also compare how much barnes spent, when he spent it and what playing staff he inherited. Sorry, but I dont see the value in comparing the results of the two managers.

Henriks Sombrero - I'm pretty sure he is self-employed.

And despite all the barbs from the jealous naysayers about his great success, he has proven to be a generous and responsible uncle willing to take in and care for his poor orphaned nephews Huey, Dewie, and Louie.

As I said earlier can we trust mowbray to spend wisely going with what he has signed so far

To all who passed on your thoughts and prayers - thank you

I notice that Hamburg also drew away at the weekend, fair enough it was Hannover and not the Falkirk youth team, but still they too looked tired.

Our squad seem to be their own worst enemies at the moment, there seems to be discord in the ranks and even on the pitch they don't look as if they are pulling in the same direction.

If I were King I would play the likes of Misun or Thomson with Loovens until we can bring in some to replace Caldwell,

I would drop McGeady for McGinn for the next 3 weeks, give him a 2 week break in the sun after the international games, and play Samaras on the left side of midfield, he seems to be at home over there,

Only play Crosas and N'Guemo in central midfield, no one else! until january at least when they are reinforced by the South Korean - sell the others for there Brown, Robson, Flood

Release Mizuno, Caddis and get as much as possible for McManus, Naylor, Maloney McDonald and Wilson.

Play our reserves, they are good enough and better than the Timposter's playing in and around the first team at the moment.

shaunbhoy,
quality debating, tug yer locks.

what are the origins of the word "ned"?

UC

I would sell all the outfield players who played yesterday, I have seen enough of them and it seems to be a case of one good game several ordinary, not good enough to be at the club so get rid.The way the are playing maybe they feel the same way.
The manager continues to worry me bigtime I dont think he is what we need.

UC

It come from Teddy Boys from the 1950's and as we know Teddy is associated with another group from Glasgow.

The Teddy Boys look was another one of many youth movement groups or styles which has been vilified by the more conservative adults like punks and the like.

Not that I like Neds by the way. But in some ways it is a derogatory term put on young people by others.

Do Neds call other Neds, Neds?

I think so but it is an interesting anomaly that starts with adult disapproval with the young and then it balloons into behaviour.

canamalar,
there is a time and a place for making one's point about the Irish question. During a minute's silence to commemorate the dead is not it. You would know that if your IQ was higher than your shoe size. You could probably get hold of the wrong end of the stick if it only had one end.
I am not going to grace anymore of your tripe with a response. If you want to imagine that you have now somehow won this argument then so be it. Something else you can delude yourself about.
Stick to discussing football, assuming you even have an interest in it.

All in all we are in dark times

A manager whom many of us supect cant, a team that cant play as one, and element of our support that shames us in the eyes of the decent

Like Tojo I've just about had enough

I have absolutely no doubt that the Mhog intends a wholesale clearout, the problem is that he has voiced his intention 3 months before the window opens, not good man motivation in my eyes

Okay he inherited a sh1te squad, probably because the board wouldnt back a manager they knew was about to leave, but, and its the legendry biggest of buts..

What has the manager managed to get out of the squad he has ?

Feck all,

And to add to it all, those idiots yesterday, lets not be calling anybody else "Scotlands Shame" for a while

Ming

Gordon_J

ha ha nice one, and I have Gerry McDades new book at home, I wonder if he’s going to the KANO night?

Hail Hail

Ulster-Celt

It stands for Non Educated Deliquent

Re NEDS

A Glasgow MSP has called on the Scottish Parliament to condemn the use of the word ned.
The Scottish Socialist Party's Rosie Kane said the term was hurtful and disrespectful to young people.

Ms Kane said the word stands for a non-educated delinquent and is therefore degrading and insulting.

Thursday, 5 June, 2003

QK

Paul67

Sorry, but you are wide of the mark this time.

Up to the departure of Brown, the centre has looked shaky, but like Hamburg, it wasn't not the central defence (or indeed the centre of the team) that let us down yesterday, but the flanks. Mcgeady, Hinkel and McCourt all served up lousy performances, while the middle of the team were sound.

Yes, we lost three goals. Caldwell to blame for penalty, no doubt. But Samaras's slack pass and N'Guemo's switching off to blame for the second and third goals.

BigChipsUK

Surely the point about zonal defending is that you don't mark players?

Quizking - and that coming from a nedette/senga :)

My verdict on yesterday -

Zaluska - Poor.

No communication with his defenders and bad distribution, and could have done better at the first and third goals. Like I said, calls for the selling of Artur were premature. Let's hope they were also wide of the mark.

Hinkel - Poor.

Another poor game for the player who, up until Hamburg, had shown a fantastic run of form. Defending is his weak point and it showed yesterday.

Caldwell - OK.

I'm going to give pass marks to all our central defenders, as they all had at least a decent game. Caldwell was obviously at fault for the penalty, but scored a good goal and defended quite adequately. Once again, it was his long balls that brought his score down.

Loovens - OK.

Didn't do much in the first half but was reasonably solid.

Fox - Outstanding.

This is an odd one. Along with Hinkel, Fox was our worst player in the first half. I don't know if anyone said anything to him at half time, but if they did, it worked. Did so well in the second half he emerges from the game as our best player.

Mcgeady - Poor.

A good first half, despite the penalty miss. Went downhill in the second half (something which is becoming a habit). Perhaps the penalty miss knocked his confidence. Whatever - yet another poor game for the Golden one. Three in a row, if anyone's counting.

Robson - Good.

Should never have been taken off. Another bad substitution from team Mowbray. Not brilliant, but a good, solid performance. He suffers from being Scottish (i.e. people lazily assume he's all blood and snotters and no class - a theory shared by the management team, more's the pity)

N'Guemo - OK.

I would have had Crosas instead of N'Guemo, as the former had the better game against Hamburg. Similar display yesterday. For a central midfielder, he did amazingly well at not being involved with play. But by no means the worst yesterday.

McCourt - Poor.

A poor game for Paddy. It happens. Amusing to read people dismissing him yesterday because he didn't turn in another God-like performance. His style was negated by the long ball game we played yesterday, but he should have done better.

Fortune - OK.

Did his job well in holding up the ball, but can't score, something he should have remembered when he had Sammi and Skippy to pass to on the edge of the six-yard box.

Samaras - Dreadful.

The worst player on the park yesterday. If anyone can take Lee Naylor's dunce's hat from him, it's this guy. Laughable how people were calling for him to start the game after his Hamburg debacle. Why? Is it because he LOOKS like a classy player? Well, he certainly don't play like one.

McManus - Good.

Yeah, good. Stop getting on his back. He's better than Aiden this season for a start. OK, Loovens is first choice for me as well, but stop making a fool of yourselves by having a fit when he comes on. Our best defender yesterday.

Zhi - OK.

Did very little, but did it, well, ok.

Mcdonald - Outstanding.

Two great predator's goals from the man who should have started.

Overall, my main impression of the team is that there is a dismaying lack of communication all over the park. Team morale seems very low - take a look at Samaras's body language after Caldwell's goal, and Skippy's after both of his goals. Very telling.

As far as team Tony are concerned, I'm keeping the safety catch on, but bear in mind his statement about basing the team around Aiden. Well Aiden ain't working, and if Aiden ain't working ... ye ken the rest!

Big Chips UK
Our defenders are peerless when it comes to ballwatching.
The 4-2 loss to the huns last season was a masterclass on this art.
Opposing coaches team talks now consist of (pack our centre and wait on easy turnover then play diagonal outlet to either flank.One forward stay on opposite side and make late run between ballwatching defenders for simple chance.)
An inability to tackle no positional sense and the 9 times out of 10 hoofing it upfield to opposition should have them tried for fraud in calling themselves defenders.

My church is a broad church....

I welcome the silent and they shall be noticed...

I welcome the protesting sinner outside the ground and ye verily they will be let in to sing inside...

I welcome the flower wearers of red and they in turn will welcome the flower wearers of white...

And if ye cannot abide the silent, the singer, the flower wearers or the scribes of the pharisees....then truly your are in the wrong church .

This is Celtic

And my spelling of delinquent calls into question my education!

The Non educated delinquent is a joke that started on the Glasgow comedy circuit as far as I am aware and it has moved into popular culture as this explanation but it does stem back to the 1950's as before then it wasn't a term that was used, even in the 1930's and the height of the Glasgow gangs.

Rosie Kane was right that it denegrates but if it was not that word then another would have been used and would, in fact several are e.g Bam, wideo etc.

Her stance gave me a good laugh if nothing else.

It is not something to do with Ned Flanders
Hi didly ho neighborino!!!

up_over

I wish I'd watched the game that you watched

the one I saw was utter mince, as was every player in the hoops

M

Does anyone have any idea why Crosas was omitted yesterday? He is good because he drops so deep and takes the ball quickly from the centra-half(wits). Yesterday there was no outlet for the defence so we resorted to hopeful punts up the park!

Was interesting to see that we had a clean sheet by half time but as soon as the central defensive pair of Caldwell and McManus were in place we returned to the proverbial 'sieve' at the back. Think they're the poorest centre halfs to have graced the hoops, too slow, half arsed and do not put any fear into opposing forwards.

Bring back hun basher O'Dea, even though he isn't the answer either, least he has heart and bottle...

I feel like that Russian bird on Youtube who tell people where names come from.

Check out this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISUW6POeuYk

If you are hot for words then look at this. If not moan about Poppies and the team.

Paul67

You must just love it on days like this!

MWD
It was a pleasure to put a face to a name.
What you and the rest of you're lot are about to achieve is, quite frankly, humbling.

Won't be there for Race Night in body but will be there in spirit.
Hope you're calm today!
An annoying wee draw but, hey, they happen.

Tonight's nightshift.

A wee challenge for you.
Trace this lyric

"And all I'm got to do now, is hang on and keep the faith.

Cause I know my drinking buddy, My old friend Samuel G...

I just know that lowdown whisky drinking son of a misbegotten fool.....

I just know my dear old compadre is gonna keep the faith with me"

ShowingMyAgeCSC.

Are TFOD hurting or what? Digitally enhanced videos etc etc the problem is. . . . They didnt get the reaction that they were looking for, and by word they a hurting. . . Bigtime. And now we see the newbies on here . . . The shauns and selicbhoys looking for political debates. . . Listen guys you have more pressing things to worry about on thursday,uefa to hand down punishment to the same fans whom did nazi salutes in israel. . . Oh the irony.

shaunbhoy,
again with the quality debating skills, and again and again with the 'this is the last time' guff.
For your info the only way to protest agains silence is to disrupt it.
There can be no other way to show dissent.
The fact that the protestors did not bring it inside the stadium is commendable IMO, this allowed the board and those who wished to tug their locks the chance to comply with the wee free meeja agenda.
Heres the toilet paper wipe your mouth yer talking a steaming pile.

BigChipsUK.

Some of the defending my youngests U11 team would get
slaughtered for by their manager. Free kicks throw ins etc we keep
turning our back on the ball not being switched on Totally UN-professional.

KrakowBhoy - "Not that I like Neds by the way. But in some ways it is a derogatory term put on young people by others. "

It's not a term used to describe young people in general.

It is a pejorative term, but only because neddish behaviour is anti-social.

The classic ned is a teenage male with a penchant for wearing white sports apparel and a white baseball cap at a jaunty angle, usually accessorised by cheap 9ct gold jewelry and a bottle of Buckfast or MD 20:20.

Neds enjoy such activities as hanging around in front of shops, harrassing decent people with demands that they purchase alcohol on their behalf. They also like commandeering swing parks and shouting abuse at passers-by, like "look at the state ae yooo!". Nearly all the vandalism committed in Scotland is the handiwork of neds.

There was a daft bint in the Scottish Parliament a few years ago who campaigned against the use of the word "ned", but nobody listened as she was clearly a senga. (thumbsup)

Canamalar – to answer your question: “how do protesters protest against silence then ???”

I would think there are various ways of doing this. Turning your back, sitting down or staying out of your seat would be ways of not taking part in a minute’s silence. Displaying a banner in support of innocent victims of war would be another way of making a point. People who are genuinely politically motivated tend to be resourceful when it comes to protests.

I understand such imagination may be beyond people who are pig ignorant and those who defend them. After all, there are inanimate objects with more intelligence than these degenerates.

But criticising boorish behaviour has nothing to do with any media agenda, it's just common decency. I suppose that just depends on your upbringing right enough.

You didn't answer my question about the funeral, but never mind. People want to move on and I respect that.

Yesterday was the most dire performance I can remember seeing from a Celtic team. I guess Scott Brown is not the source of all our problems.

Even still the officials conspired to screw us at the end.

Ernie Lynch... but you cannot play a system of "zonal defending" or "marking the man" exclusively. You have to utilise both systems simultaneously, utilising whichever method is most appropriate in each individual situation as it occurs throughout the match.

What you absolutely cannot do (especially when you are a £½M+ pa professional) is stand alongside your fellow central defender, both gazing tunnel-vision style at the ball, while an opposition player waltzes between the pair of you completely unnoticed and unchallenged to score. It's simply unacceptable.

Now if you have restricted the opposition to speculative long range shots, and one takes a freak deflection off your jacksy and loops past the goalkeeper, then that is a different matter. You cannot be held accountable for that.

Our defenders have to demonstrate more (footballing) intelligence, tactical awareness and positional sense. They are supposed to be the best in the country, but all to often they are made to look like chumps by very ordinary opponents.

I won't even get into a discussion about the attributes of our strikers, of whom only Skippy has earned the right to use this term to describe himself.

I think Tony Mowbray could do worse that try a 3-5-2 formation, which would allow a couple of defensive midfielders to cover the central defensive area (and pick up the opposition runners), whilst also affording us the luxury of deploying two wide players and having two centre forwards who can stay in central positions.

Surely it's at least worth a try?

The fundamental problem is the managers insistence on playing two wide players who have no notion of defending/tracking back.
Invariably this means the opposition have carte blanche to run at dick and dom and overwhelm the full backs.
Time for the manager to wake up and smell the steaming pile of manure that our season is fast becoming, play an extra midfielder as we cant defend at all, if he cant see this someone in authority should put it to him forcibly that his jacket is on a shoogly peg if he doesnt pick things up.
I know we are top of the league but my eyes dont deceive me , we are dysfunctional throughout the team and the coaching staff seem oblivious to it.

pauloantony,
are you an ostrich?
Pretending that some of the support did not shoot us all in the foot is ridiculous. If you can rationalise that in your head then good for you. I cannot, and nor can many other tims.
Perhaps some of us think a bit more deeply than others and can see just what the long term damage to the club might be if we are lumped in as being as bad as the Govan mob?

I know a guy who has been in the players' lounge at Celtic Park twice through a connection in his work. The first time was in 2003 and the second time was the recent loss against Hearts in the League Cup.

I was chatting to this guy last week and he said the difference was remarkable. In 2003 the team all came in after the game together and after chatting briefly to freinds and family for a few minutes they were all in a group dissecting the game, talking about what needed to improve and generally having a bit of banter. On his latest visit the players came in one by one, they all sat apart with their family and friends and, worst of all in my opinion, new guys who didn't have family or friends there such a ZZ and N Guemo just sat themselves pretty much staring into space before leaving shortly after.

Now I realise this is anecdotal and doesn't prove anything. The guy I spoke to may even be talking rubbish (I doubt it though) but it does seem to suggest there is a problem with team morale.

I do think the management team should be working on this but surely our club captain should take some responisbility here too.

ExiledBhoy

When the vast majority of a team gets 'ok', 'poor' and 'dreadful' I think it's fairly obvious what my opinion of the team was!

But, ok, I'll spell it out. We were mince. Ye happy?

P.S. Do you agree with Tony that it was the worst we've played all season? I'ts up there, certainly, but Hearts CIS cup, Happoel, Rangers, and Dundee Utd all have a higher offal content.

If you hadn't seen either team before you could've sworn the Bhoys were bottom of the league, not Falkirk. I usually manage to get in a more positive frame of mind the next day but feeling miserable would too kind a statement. That was the biggest load of bollocks I've ever seen in a first half from a CELTIC team and bar AH they and the management team should all donate a weeks wages to charity. I'm bloody sick to the teeth of watching my team throw long balls forward. What are they doing in training?? Although I will stick with Mogga, his coats on a shaky nail for me. Hopefully there were a few punches -not literally - thrown at each other in that deressing room. A few black eyes are what's needed to pull them out of this lethargy, instead of mollycoddling!

Rant over, althought those OTHERS outwith the football that shamed the club aren't deserving of a mention!!

It's tough to play a game after an away tie in Europe, it's especially tough mentally when it was one that we absolutely couldn't afford to lose, but others have asked about the team attitude and I add my voice to theirs - the team was incredibly flat and whilst they did stir a little in the second half, it was still not enough to beat a team that we should beat out of hand.

Their youngsters played like their lives depended on it, our players played like their wages were already in the offshore bank account. The manager should be able to fire them up - we have a big squad of players who are all of a standard better than we faced and yet they couldn't get the job done. The manager should also husband his resources and ensure the team he puts on the pitch have the intensity to beat a bottom of the table team.

As to McManus' arrival being the cause of the goals conceded - we were pushing up the field a lot more than when Loovens (who wasn't playing well...) was on the pitch. We lost shape with the arrival of additonal strikers at the expense of midfield players which I think was more to blame. And please God someone tell BTM that Samaras is not a winger, how many times did he cut inside from the left and just keep stumbling along the edge fo the box? Sure he did a couple of things right, but I find him incredibly frustrating and oh so predictable.

Afternoon all,

Ignoring the inept defending was anyone else concerned at Zaluska for Falkirk's 3rd goal.

Goalkeeping 101, narrow the angle and make your body big.

Zaluska narrowed the angle then turned side on the give the ball easy flight into the net. Had that been the Holy Goalie, his portly midriff would have absorbed that shot.

philvisreturns

I know it is not for all young people just look at the Emos, the Goths, the Punks, the geeks and then don't look to hard or you might hurt yourself.

By the way (now that is a Neddy term) see if that Rosie Kane could talk through her mouth instead of her nose, we all might have listened but then again...............

shaunyboy
The media already had their agenda set.
Listening to them all week they were so transparent in their determination to condemn us.
Damned if we do,Damned if we don't.
You also seem to have the same agenda.

Are TFOD hurting or what? Digitally enhanced videos etc etc the problem is. . . . They didnt get the reaction that they were looking for, and by word they a hurting. . . Bigtime. And now we see the newbies on here . . . The shauns and selicbhoys looking for political debates. . . Listen guys you have more pressing things to worry about on thursday,uefa to hand down punishment to the same fans whom did nazi salutes in israel. . . Oh the irony.

Are TFOD hurting or what? Digitally enhanced videos etc etc the problem is. . . . They didnt get the reaction that they were looking for, and by word they a hurting. . . Bigtime. And now we see the newbies on here . . . The shauns and selicbhoys looking for political debates. . . Listen guys you have more pressing things to worry about on thursday,uefa to hand down punishment to the same fans whom did nazi salutes in israel. . . Oh the irony.

up_over_goal 1.23pm

You are surely at the wind up. Some of our players were bad the remainder simply rotten, especially the ball watchers McManus and Caldwell.

The sooner we are out of the europa league the better, then we can leave all the "tired" excuses at the side of the park.
Poor wee souls having to travel all the way to Germany and back and still be expected to play football, if they don't like it then go and get a real job.
When we go to Austria can we please leave McManus there, the poorest excuse for a Celtic centre half i have seen in a long time.

BigChipsUK,
normally I would refrain from going with 3 at the back as that presupposes you have 3 exceptional defenders to call upon. However, when you have 4 diabolical defenders, it might be worth a try.
At least you can put more men in the middle and hopefully reduce the number of times that the sieve is called upon to actually "defend". Still not sure we should be going with two wingers when most of our central strikers (well Maf and Sammi) manage to wander out to the wings all too often.
All in all, far from curing the ills we suffered with last year, BTM is in danger of adding some more to the mix.

lubo1977

Your friend's anecdote dismays but doesn't surprise me!

I think it is fairly obvious to even a novice of human psychology that player morale is low. I guess those who thought Tony's public criticism of players' performances was a good thing were .... how can I put this?...WRONG!

Jings!
I have to say that I'm very impressed by both the typing speed and accuracy of so many of the contributors on here of late.

You would almost think it was a prerequisite for their job.

jockybhoy

A good, level-headed post. Nice to know their is someone else who has the perspicacity to realise it wisnae Mick's fault this time!

I've noticed Messrs Caldwell, McManus and Loovens often referred to as CBs. Is this an acronym for Chuckle Brothers?

The Token Tim on November 9, 2009 12:24 PM

LOL!! Even my missus is laughing at that! AND at me!

And she knows FA about fitba'

53

KrakowBhoy - Tell me about it! I was lucky enough at school to be very popular with the sportos, the motorheads, geeks, sluts, bloods, wasteoids, dweebies...

But neds are hated by all, except Rosie Kane and co., and their disdain for the word is comparable to Derek Johnstone complaining about the hurtful word "fatty", while crying into a roll and square sausage.

First time poster, so be gentle.
I was willing to forgive the 1st half performance yesterday come half time, but by the end of the 90 mins – aided by a disgraceful decision from a linesman – I was full of rage.

What pains me more is I actually think we have some talented players at the club and the only immediate signings we need are a centre half and a goal scorer. However, some of these talented players are either nowhere near the first team (Flood) or finding themselves in one game and out another (Crosas). My views are that although some of these names may not have the shine of Brown, N’Guemo, Maloney etc, they are better team players and provide far better balance and support. Look at some of the results when Crosas or Flood have been involved: v Brisbane 3-0 win. v Al Ahly 5-0 win. v Spurs 2-0 win. v St Johnstone 5-2 win (Crosas only). v Hibs 1-0 win (Flood only). v Falkirk 4-0 win. v Kilmarnock 3-0 win (Crosas only). It’s no coincidence that when we are scoring goals / creating chances these guys are involved. If you look at the stats for Crosas (as Flood hasn’t had much 1st team action), out of the 12 wins under Mowbray, Crosas has been involved in 8 of them. Out of the 9 defeats, Crosas has been involved in 3. Why can’t Mowbray see this?

I wouldn’t really like to look into the stats of how many goals we concede when McManus is on the park!!

I think it’s fair to say Mowbray still doesn’t know his strongest 11. We need players playing with each other on a regular basis to build up those partnerships in all areas of the park. My concern is he picks what he thinks his strongest 11 is but he is so far from the truth. And on that point, I think we are also seeing a less effective Danny Fox in an attacking sense – the guys playing in front of him are changing on a game-by-game basis!!

"shaunyboy
The media already had their agenda set.
Listening to them all week they were so transparent in their determination to condemn us.
Damned if we do,Damned if we don't.
You also seem to have the same agenda."

The only thing that made any sense in that was "damned if we do".
The disappointing thing is that some of us "did", and played into their hands. The only agenda I have is supporting my team and encouraging others, where necessary, to do the same and act in a manner that befits us and casts the club and its extended family in the best light. If you can't relate to that then perhaps you need to revisit YOUR agenda.

philvisreturns

personally the i would only be happy being popular with the sluts and the wasteoids (not necessarily in that order).

Don't talk about square sausage, ye canny get that here.

shaunyboy
My agenda is not to give a biased media any more fuel for their obvious agenda.
What's yours?
Let this non story go.

Raltim
All good points as I asked before why was Crosas dropped yesterday.He did not even come on a sub

Shaunbhoy

Earlier on today you debated with canamalar about the rights and wrongs of political songs and when he mentioned that he was looking forward to hearing TBOTOB sung at Celtic Park again you suggested that he should go to GAA games if that was what he wanted.

Now I don't know when you were last at a GAA match but I go to games very regularly and in all my years I have never once heard TBOTOB or indeed any other "rebel" song sung at GAA matches.

I don't think there is any need for any non-Celtic song to be sung at Celtic games and I have been very vocal about that in the past as it does nothing but lump us in with the other side. However, my stance has softened and if politics is being brought into Celtic then those in charge have no comeback against those who want to sing political songs or wave political flags.

Hail Hail

Mort

Shaunbhoy

Come back next year with your agenda - it's gone for this year

steinreignsblahblahblah,
how is the funeral nonsense related, should someone go in to the church 2 days early and sing I doubt anyone would bother.
All the other protests you list legitamise the silence by compliance.
The protest was not against the minutes silence as far as I know but against the introduction of it at a football game, after a televised silence earlier and a before the silence tomorrow, but thats right its just the 1 minutes silence innit.

I've made quite clear on here before I have no problem with people wanting to remember their dead in the correct setting, (politics in a sporting arena? well I never, dont people get ejected for that ?), but I will not desert my fellow Celtic supporters in their right to freedom of speech, at the behest of the wee free meeja's agenda, this has absolutely nothing to do with common courtsey and more to do with imposed morals. You my tiny minded friend cannot see past your own prejudices, you have no moral integrity like your masters in the wee free press, so dont try and impose your ugly will on everyone else, some of us have no sold our souls to the devil.

Up_over_goal
You are fast becoming the voice of reason on this blog. Can't argue with any of your player descriptions.

"shaunyboy
My agenda is not to give a biased media any more fuel for their obvious agenda."

Alright then, but bearing that in mind do you think that the singing of Aidan McAnespie during the minute's silence, albeit outside the ground, added or detracted from that agenda?

"What's yours?"

I gave mine in my previous post.

"Let this non story go."

Agree with you there at least. People will have to just agree to disagree as opinions seem pretty entrenched on both sides.

if mowbray does not know his strongest 11
by now we are in deep doodoo

Shaunbhoy
You've obviously not attended many GAA games m8. Nobody sings anything.

A final note from me on the poppy issue and apologies if this has been posted before.
If it is true that Falkirk FC has not distributed the away tickets to Celtic FC, but instead has chosen to sell directly to the public, then any culpability in this matter must lie squarely with Falkirk FC. If they chose to sell away tickets themselves then how do we know that they didn't sell to people masquerading as Celtic supporters? Were any cockney accents heard yesterday? Any Burberry or Stone Island being worn? The Aiden song is not a difficult one to learn so in theory these people could have been anybody-Rangers Fans, Falkirk Fans, Chelsea Fans, Media funded plants.
Ridiculous? Probably...;-)

John Barnes: P21 W15 D0 L6 GF55 GA16

Tony Mowbray: P21 W8 D5 L8 GF32 GA22

Rt Rev, I'm beginning to doubt if Mhogga knows what his strongest aftershave is let alone his strongest starting XI.

Jan the man

Yesterday my boy (sporting his celtic top of course)went to the bookies in main street ruggie and put on a few quid on some fixed odd's match results. Later in the day I found his betting slips lying in the bin, not being a betting man myself, I thought I would mention that it was a waste of money and the bookies would always win at the end of the day. My curiosity got the better of me and I checked his lines only to find one had come up - Chelsea(H) - Hull(H)- and Northwich(H). On confronting him with his mistake it appears big Jan had scored in the 90th minute for a Hull home victory when he thought it had ended a draw giving him a £40 return on £1. The best moral of the story is ..... thats what dads are for......the more practical moral is ......wait till the final whistle before checking results and tossing your betting slips in the bin!

Many have commented on Hinkel having had "form" of late. I struggle to see this. he is probably best of a bad bunch. Sure he has provided some decent corosses but seems well short of pace at times and is not a stalwart defender by any means. I beleive that the "German Internationalist" and £2million tag allows him the benefit of the doubt over a player who in my opinion could easily convert to the wing back role - Paul Caddis. Days like yesterday require players with fire in their bellies, Celtic men offer more in these situations as opposed to men like Hinkel. Caddis has never dissapointed, perhaps Tony is protecting him but the gloves really need to come off now. I'd like to see Tony going with the wing backs just as we did with Martin's teams. Power in midfield seems to be the order of the day.
I still beleive that BTM can turn us around, (at SPL level anyway) but he needs courage (Tony should have bags of it) a decent pot of money and most of all, support from the Celtic fans.
p.s. Some practice at dead balls too Bhoys, the delivery is at times, shocking.

53,

:-)

HAIL! HAIL!
Token

PS - it gave me no pleasure in posting that my friend.

Simply we are DIRE. My patience is fianlly exhausted with Mowbray as well sadly. A team who had scored what 5 goals all season put 3 past our over paid and over hyped "stars"...simply NOT good enough not by a long way. To blame tiredness is simply scraping the bottom of the barrell. There is clearly something rotten at the core of our club and the longer this malaised continues the worse it becomes. Time for a clearout of management and playing staff methinks. Sad times for us.

gil heron
The last two words summed that observation up

Hi Paul have had to sign on different handle you may remember me VINNIE THE DOG!!

Wee girl doing grand 3 in feb and she thinks the bad troll in billy goats gruff wears a Rangers scarff!!! doing my bit.

On to more serious matters. The more educated (football wise) among us have said for ever that McManus is a very poor centre half. Caldwell not a great deal better - slightly quicker not much though. When the great Bobo Balde debate was raging and he was mostly getting pelters (on here)the argument from the sane was simple - won 95 per cent in the air - nobody not even john carew won a battle of strength with him - and very quick - sure we all knew his weakness - but i would argue till i was blue(sorry) in the face that he was twice the player either of these two are.

The lack of Football intelligence all through the team really depresses me. The greed of individuals at the craziest of moments can sometimes be put down simply to lack of brain matter.

Still cant fathom out why some would sell our best players and keep the dross. Sell Boruc! sell MCgeady! if Boruc was playing yesterday we would have won quite simple.We can raise money by cutting the sqaud by about 6 players FRINGE PLAYERS.

I watched the minutes silence amongst 20 to 30 celtic fans some were quiet some were talking away mostly saying very good - at the end some even applauded some texted hun fans saying told you AND THEY DID NOT RECIEVE TEXTS BACK. Now a revisionest view the support were badly behaved how things can be twisted to suit certain agendas. Our own supporters?join in this free for all and all the time they smile. EVERY CELTIC SUPPORTER TO A MAN SHOULD HAVE SAID THE SAME THING IMPECCABLE BEHAVIOUR INSIDE THE STADIUM - END OFF. There was not an organized minutes silence outside the stadium who the f*** is quiet going into a football game!! it is utter garbage.How nobody can see through this is beyond me.

Shaunbhoy, canamalar - You are fast becoming the Maverick / Iceman of the blog.

Iceman: You two really are cowboys.

Maverick: What's your problem, Kazanski?

Iceman: You're everyone's problem. That's because every time you go up in the air, you're unsafe. I don't like you because you're dangerous.

Maverick: That's right! Ice... man. I am dangerous.

Donegal boy/Mort et al. Well spotted. I have in fact never attended a single GAA match so I made a large (and incorrect) assumption that they would be the ideal venue for songs of that nature. Let me stress that I have nothing against singing such ditties at the appropriate time (for example at post match drinkies in various Irish Bars), however like you I don't feel that CP is the right venue for renditions of it for the very reasons you yourself cite. I foresee a time when we, ideally without TFOD, are presented with the opportunity to play in a more lucrative environment, and on forums like this we are debating the possibility of adding the likes of the Benzemas or Riquelmes to our squad instead of fretting about how to dispose of the McManuses and Killens of the world. That day seems to me to be further away when we give bodies without our best interests at heart the ammunition to drag us down to the levels of the Hun. Just my 2p worth.

Donegal Resident

You've stunned me into silence - away tae find an argument!

Cheers - always nice to get a compliment!

timjim-if you thought that was a serious post then it is you who is probably ridiculous. Do you honestly think that I'm that paranoid or twisted to think any of these things? Did you not see the ;-) at the end of the post? Good grief man.

F.Green,
quality post.

Oh jeez Shaun - you're moving it from poppies to songs.... I'm logging off !

jockybhoy,
alright alright!! I was only answering Mort. Nothing but football from now......I promise!!
:-)

canamalar, Shaunbhoy:

I guess the lesson learned here is that it doesn't matter what your views are on poppies or politics, as long as we're all the same religion. (thumbsup)

Final post on poppies - all eyes were on us considering some of the political beliefs of some of our supporters and a minority took the bait. And by god did we look bad. A Liverpool fan sitting next to me said - is whatever cause these protesters advocating advanced by that? And then he said hopefully the ref and linesman had nobody killed in the war! We're from Derry, if we can be respectful most should be able to as we've seen first hand the exploits of the British Army.

roythebhoy

"Celtic men offer more in these situations as opposed to men like Hinkel"

With all due respect I totally disagree with that statement.

Would you rather have McManus or Rieper
Would you rather have Peter Grant or Paul Lambert
Would you rather have Larsson or Mark Burchill

In each case above one was a "Celtic man" when growing up while the other had no links to Celtic whatsoever.

Ability, desire, tactical awareness, fitness and professionalism should all rank higher than being a "celtic man"

Gil Heron
Sorry I did not pick up the joke I did not know what the symbol at the end meant but I know know.I did not think insulting me (calling me rediculous )was needed.

philvis...,
:oD

When Rangers are banned from next season's UEFA competitions, does that mean the 2nd placed SPL team will go straight into the CL group stage (the last time we'll see a Scottish team do that!) and the 3rd place SPL team will get into the 3rd CL qualifying round?

If this is the case then we will most likely (given our luck in past CL group draws) be in a group that reads: Chelsea, Real Madrid, Celtic, Sampdoria. I wonder how many points we'll take off that lot?!

Mind you, we should look on the bright side... It's probably less embarassing to be ritually humiliated by those three teams than by the alternative possibility of Lyon, PSV & Rosenborg!

philvisreturns,

well said.
I generally tend to come on CQN after poor results in the hope some enlightened fellow fan can put some sort of positive spin on events. Looks like my timing was nearly as bad as our central defence's.
:-(
The only crumb of comfort is that the international break moves us two weeks closer to the transfer window. If only I felt any confidence that our problems might be adequately addressed when it arrives.

roythebhoy,

What exactly do you mean when you describe Andreas Hinkel as not being a Celtic man?

Sorry, further to my last post, I should have added this link.

Corrib 04 -

I agree there is little merit in comparing the records of the 2 managers, but these are simple facts. CQN wasn't around in those days but I'm sure most of us would not have been Barnes fans if it was. The fact is Barnes initial few months were generally positive and Tony's haven't been.

Certain things he can't be blamed for, such as the quality of the squad he inherited, and I do agree that Barnes inherited better players, and was given big money (relatively speaking) to spend on improving the squad.

Tony still inherited a vastly better squad than either Jim Gannon or Eddie May, yet he has been unable to beat either of their teams. Team morale is as low as it has been since Viduka threw his boots off at half time at ICT, McDonald's lack of a thanks to Samaras for the pass for his 2nd goal has already been commented on as evidence of this. Watch Chelsea and Man U again if you get a chance, never mind the quality of the play, watch the team spirit from both sides, watch how they fight for each other, then watch our team. Watch the body language on the bench - no one is fighting , they are out of their depth.

First???

Stephen McManus?

Wrong place and very late. It really IS you?

Talking about singing songs, our nazi saluting rivals across the city, have decided over the last few weeks to pull the famine song and the billy boys song back out of their bigot wardrobe,these songs are racist and against the law however the sfa spl and the media choose not to hear,or claim not to. . . They should have went to earsavers.

Impeccable timing as usual Stephen. Now isn't that an opposition striker behind you... with the ball... and just the goallie to beat?

gary.. gary.. Gary!...... GARY!!!!

Where gary go? Where ball?

What is interesting about the whole poppy/remembrance day thing is how few people are questioning why it has been introduced into football in the last couple of years.

We managed without it for decades and I don't think anyone suffered from its absence.

What I want to know is

Why has it been introduced now?

Who benefits from it?

I would like to say that Hinkel is our most creative player or at the least in the top three. More than any other player his crosses carry menace and there is often a goal at the end of it. He is a fullback who makes goals and has played for Germany so he is technically better than any Scottish right - backs.

We are a better team when he plays imo than when he doesn't he needs a player in front of him to help him and I don't think he has that. Remember McNamara and Donnelly together? THey were good for each other. Hinkel and McGeady has not worked and rarely did it work with Naka there, the difference was Naka could move infield and influence the game while Hinkel bombed on. It was far from perfect but it was better.

I will be accused of bashing McGeady (AGAIN) but too often Hinkel is the one running beyond the left back while McGeady is eithewr going back wards or cutting infield with no incision and while you applaud a fullback for such play if he gets caught out then the other team are breaking on the chuckle brothers and we all know how horrid that is, right kids?

It is not a criticism of McGeady, more of the shape of the team and it should not happen like this.

McManus, get back in the kitchen NOW. You're meant to be doing detention you useless twit!

Donegal
On your post re the poppies
Good man well said.
Some of the stuff here has been mad and its worse today.
People have been called bigoted,imperialist fascists,huns etc all because they argued in favour of respecting the minutes silence.

Anyhow I am going home to tug my forlock

(Can you go blind from that)

...Ah yes, the days when Celtic players walked out like gladiators and the team were feared. When a "3 pointer" was almost certain. Then, players played for pride, whether in the knowledge that they were playing for a colossal club, for their own egos and usually both. Stein was right at the time when he commented that celtic shirts don't shrink to fit. Those days the world and wages were both much smaller and to be a Celtic player was already the dream-come-true for many players. Today, or to be accurate, more recently, fine Celtic players have and will often perform to their talented ability for personal satifaction alone and not to prove to the fans that they are worthy of playing for Celtic Football Club (Hartson/Sutton/Naka). Which is fine if results go our way. Henrik in my opinion played for himself and the fans. Today Celtic has too many feable hearts,journeymen and general chancers. The world is smaller these days and Celtic is the pinacle for too many under achievers who are glad to be here to cash in (can't believe their luck at being signed in the first place). As budgets are tight and the Suttons and Hartsons are a long way off, what we need are players who will take a pride in the fact that they are Celtic players and give there all in proving they deserve to pull on the green and white hoops. That together with some half-decent/gifted players and we'll almost be there.

Hail! Hail!

Cardiffbhoy

Totally agree. We do not have a collective, supporting bunch of players. Absolutely no bond or team spirit! On Jim Gannon, I was very impressed when we played Motherwell at Celtic Park. You could see instantly the stamp he has put on the team - can anyone say this about TM?!

The manager in any football club is the most important person (in my view). He can turn average players into good players (Bobby Petta!!). He can make a player believe he is the best player on the park. He can turn an average team into a good team. He - surely - creates the team spirit!

Celtic 4 Morton 0, I'm free at the weekend. I'm utter mince, but by Ghod would I give my all and die (perhaps not literally) for the shirt... and it wouldn't have to shrink to fit my waistline either!

what is the stars,
the minutes silence was well respected by all, where appropriate,
as F.Green said there was no minutes silence organised outwith the stadium. Adn that should have been the end of it, but no, just condemnation for peole who out of respect for fellow tims did not carry their protest into the arena.
They broke no laws and were not part of any organised rememberance, that the long and short of it. Problem being people trying to impose their views on the whole country outside the stadium.

Paul67....

I said all last season that a team is only as good as its midfield and you touched on that with the N'Guemo and Crosas comment. "Downsizing" is a subject that has been brought up many a time and to think that this decade we've had Lennon, Lambert, Moravick, Keane, Petrov and even Sutton (who I admit, wasn't naturally a midfielder but still better than what we have). Even the likes of Agathe would be a breath of fresh air compared to this lot.

I banged on about Martinez or Coyle all summer and instead we got Mowbray. We all have to get behind our current management side and I hope that he succeeds - Mowbrays success=Celtics success. However, long before Strachan was contemplating leaving, Paul67 suggested that he NEVER improved a team he managed and that still rings true. O'Neill took over a team that was at its lowest ebb and romped to the title - Strachan likewise. It could be argued that Mowbray has taken over the club in its best state since the 90's and we seem to be going backwards - fast...

Kneejerk reaction or simply admitting a mistake was made before things start to fester? You decide. Personally, I don't think Mowbray is cut out for this job and the damage may be too hard to rectify before everybody is in agreement.

As you are all aware on Saturday the 14th of November 2009 ‘Bringing Martin Home’ will be holding its close-out fund raising event in the form of a ‘Race Night’ to be held in the Kerrydale Suite at Celtic Park. Tickets Cost £5. Doors open 7pm sharp. There are still tickets remaining so if you would like to come along please email

Email - info@bringingmartinhome.com

On the night there will be 8 horse races, each race having 8 runners, to be shown on screens in the Kerrydale Suite. You will have the chance to bet on a horse in each race with a minimum bet of £1 if you so wish to do so. You can however bet any multiple of £1 on any number of horses in all races. Like normal horse race betting each horse will have racing odds against them. Once you have bet on a horse you can then sit back and shout your horse onto victory before picking up any winnings due to you if your horse romps home first.

As well as the Horse Racing there will be 2 separate raffles and an auction on the evening.

Note :- unfortunately due to logistics and committee having too much to do with too little time available to do it all in, between now and the race night, the raffle is only open to those who will be attending on the night.
The star prize on the night '2 weeks use of a Florida Villa (accommodation only)' will be raffled off in a tenner raffle were you write your name on a £10 note and it is placed in a tombola before being drawn at random. This prize would normally cost £1200 in high season. The accommodation is located 10 miles from Disney and sleeps up to 12 people. Prize must be used by May 2011 subject to availability.

Raffle Prizes
=============

1 week 'accommodation only' at a Spanish Golf resort.
Framed Celtic Top signed by Current Team.
Celtic v Inter Milan 2-1 Canvas Print.
Tommy Burns Canvas Print.
Henrik Larsson Canvas Print.
Double framed Simon Ferry Top.
John Hartson Top & Book Signed.
Signed Billy McNeill autobiography.
Champions Bar tickets * 2 (one prize).
His & Her Manchester United Watches (worth £100).
Framed and signed Billy McNeill caricature.
Framed and signed Billy McNeill Lisbon Lion print.
Signed Billy McNeill picture.
Various bottles of alcohol.
+ much more.

Auction Items
=============

Tommy Burns Pop Art Oil Painting (Original).
Round of Golf for 3 people at Royal Troon's Portland Course (includes lunch and drinks).
Glass Encased Ball signed by Seville Team.
Double Framed John Hartson Top.
Neil Lennon takes on the Huns signed Canvas Print
Signed Artur Boruc Goalkeepers Top.

Note: Prize allocation may be subject to change if\when we receive donations that can be used in either auction or raffle.

Bringing Martin Home Slide Show as Shown at Celtic Park 31102009.

We look forward to seeing you all there on the night.

Let's get Kano home for Christmas.

Thanks

MWD (on behalf of the 'Bringing Martin Home' committee).

www.bringingmartinhome.com.

Tony, practice went well today learned to hit ball far and accurate, putting let me down , gary hid my boots again.

cardiffbhoy,

I was at the game yesterday and McDonnald ran after Samaras and jumped on him in a congratulatory way. I must say I was surprised.

Up over the goal,

Fox - Outstanding? Ha, apart from heading he is useless. He's had a 'Naylor 1st season' in his first month and went downhill rapidly since. Note to Fox (and others): Ditch the poofy white boots and tuck yer shirt(s) in, you look like tramps.

Anton's Rogan Josh on November 9, 2009 1:41 PM
Afternoon all,

Ignoring the inept defending was anyone else concerned at Zaluska for Falkirk's 3rd goal.

Goalkeeping 101, narrow the angle and make your body big.

Zaluska narrowed the angle then turned side on the give the ball easy flight into the net. Had that been the Holy Goalie, his portly midriff would have absorbed that shot.

same as my thoughts at the time. it's like the guys i play fives with. when it's their turn to be in goal they make half-hearted attempts at saving which are more about not getting hurt by the ball than stopping goals.
whilst he's better than brown i don't think he's in artur's league

Stephen, it's a pity Gary didn't hide your boots on Sunday... rather than simply tying the laces together.

If you'd played barefoot you might have moved your feet a bit quicker to avoid getting your toes trodden on, and thus could have prevented the worst team in the SPL from beating their goals-per-game ratio by 500%. They'd scored 5 in 10 games previously, then they got 3 in a quarter of a game against you and your fellow Chuckle Brother.

By the way, check your pigeon hole before you go home... I think someone has left Gordon Strachan's mobile phone number for you.

Calton Tongues
Agree with you on the white boots. However, football tops - like jumpers and t-shirts - should NEVER be tucked in!!
JC

Canamalar - to clarify the point about the funeral - anyone could use their right to freedom of speech to disrupt a funeral by shouting out or singing a song during the service. I don’t mean a hymn or anything relevant to the event, but ant-social behaviour. Who in their right mind would defend that?

It’s crass behaviour. If you were unfortunate enough to be in that situation would you just sit there or would you defend the person’s right to disrupt the funeral?

There have been minute’s silences at Celtic games for victims of the Madrid bombings and the attacks in the USA – neither has anything to do with football but they were perfectly observed by the Celtic supporters even though most people had no connection to the events. Did anyone defend the Barcelona fans that disrupted the first one or did everyone feel embarrassed about it?

The issue is not freedom of speech, Celtic supporters or even Remembrance Sunday. As far as I know the silence was observed by the fans inside the ground. It’s whether you attempt to defend the indefensible. Throughout our exchanges you have tried to defend people interrupting the silence. That speaks volumes for your own values. We laugh at the Huns when they try and justify songs about famine and sectarianism and their efforts to blame all but themselves for their anti-social behaviour in Manchester, Barcelona, Bucharest, Villareal ect, ect.

I suppose the bottom line is do you think Celtic emerged from this episode in a good light or not? These brainless wonders are a fraction of a support that has worked extremely hard to gain a positive reputation throughout Europe. You only have to be near them at a match to know how ignorant they are. They certainly know little about Irish politics. Only idiots would walk into a trap like the one that was waiting for them on Sunday. Only a joker would defend them.

Haven't posted since pre-season but after yesterday's performance thought it was time I did....consider I nowt to do at work.

This was truly the worst I have seen the hoops in a long long time. I really just can't see it getting any better any time soon but I do hope I am wrong. 52 days until the window opens...it can't come quick enough.

I remember the whole issue about ASSET MANAGEMENT...we don't seem to have many at the moment only LIABILITIES and there seems to be a few of them. For me if we are to reshape this team then we need to think about who we can actually sell for decent money as I just can't see the current board opoening the purse strings.

The main assets - Boruc, McGeady, Brown and McDonald.

For me you look at who is there in the background to replace if we sell, that for me points to Boruc and McGeady...I would include Brown but as he's injured at the moment...unlikely we'll sell in this transfer window. McDonald - even though he needs to shed a few pounds and stop the moaning..he scores goals and so we need him and he needs us if he wants to play in the World Cup.

As with the rest of the squad...totally agree that we need to play a strong 3 in the midfield as McGinn/Maloney/McCourt/McGeady are poor defensively so I think we can only play one of these....would even play Fox at left midfield and Naylor at the back just to extra secure sometimes as well. Crosas must play as he can pass the ball. N'Guemo is an athlete but his positional play and his passing let him down but he's looked good next to Crosas. Robson I would keep as he gives the midfield some height and strength which it has been missing. Zheng looks good of the small glimpses we have seen.

Defence - its obvious we need to move on both Caldwell and McManus, assuming 1 will go in the next window followed by the other during the summer with 2 new centre backs over the same time period and O'Dea coming back in Jan.

Upfront - We need another striker and quickly. Samaras not consistent as bad as he was yesterday he won the free kick for the 1st goal and the assist for the 3rd goal...but needs to score. Fortune needs games but we need goals and I don't see him getting 15 a season even when fully fit.

So in January....
Out - Boruc, McGeady, Caldwell or McManus and some of the fringe players - Flood, Killen etc
In - Centre back or two and a goalscorer

Caltontongues _ I may be wrong but I think it was Aiden's arms he jumped into not Sammi's . Happy to be wrong and defer to those who were committed enough to go to the game.

Steinreignedsupreme

He will be calling you a bigoted fascists imperialist soon.
You cant really use logic when someone carries so much hatred in their hearts.

BigChipsUK,

You were nearly in with a shoe-in there too but failed the last condition of being half-decent/gifted! You should have feigned modesty and kept schtum! I'll have a word with the cfc catering manager though and see what I can do for you re a saturday job! LOL - I understand that "condition" isn't coditional to success there.

HAIL! HAIL!

cardiffbhoy,

He did celebrate with Aiden but then made a beeline for Samaras and jumped on him. Don't know if it was shown on TV.

JonnyClash,

Not in my team, ever:-)

Tony, If only I knew how to work my sat-nav I'd be on my way to petersborough to play for the Mr Gordon, and BWT FIY im pigeon chested not holed.

How dya switch this thing aff

Signing off. This site is getting a bit like the celtic team boring. Will try later hoping the silence issue has been put to bed

Tony Mowbray,

I'm concerned that you put McManus in the kitchen. Check that he hasn't put any metal utensils in the microwave on full power.

timjim-sorry-didn't mean to offend. Couldn't really believe that the post was taken as being serious. You're correct though, I shouldn't have insulted you-I unreservedly apologise.

Celtic 4 Morton 0, I am actually gifted, not perhaps in the art of fleet of foot and deception (and if we are to believe the Scottish referees we have a few who are gifted at that!), but I am gifted at the use of Microsoft Excel.

So with my undoubted talents I could make it look as though I had put in a stellar performance, accentuate the positive amongst the myriad of negatives and even give the impression that the ground was filled almost to capacity to witness the tremendous fare apparently being served up. And I can still kick a football the length of the pitch, straight to an opponent...

Go on, giz a job.

CaltonTongues

So, you didn't think Fox had an oustanding game yesterday?

Hmm. Oh well. What can I do about that?

The only thing I's suggest is that you watch that second half again, and pay attention to Fox's play. He did a lot more than heid the ba'.

Overall, I've not been impressed with him this season. It's just that I thought yesterday ... he did have a very good game. Here's hoping he comes good, 'cos you and I know who lies ready to nick his boots - white, gold ... whatever - if he fails. And that ... well, it sends a shiver up my spine!

Hasanyone got a link to the 92nd minute ofside ? The BBC, again, does not see it as worth showing.

JungleJim, I do not know to what you are referring. The BBC has officially written that alleged incident out of history. i.e. It never happened.

JungleJim/BigChipsUK

Totally moot point guys, Samaras was clearly onside (even hun apologist Andy Walker agreed) but he missed the chance even before he realised the ref had blown for offside. The ball fell to Skippy - who was definitely offside.

Celtic 4 Morton 0

Interesting name , why ?

NoseyfraeGourockCSC

BigChips

The BBC have been writing history since I was born and I am glad they have been doing so because they are world famous for their impartiality. I am surprised you didn`t know that but glad that the off side incident did not happen (except in the mass hallucination experienced by all those watching).

Calton,

mhan after mine own heart.

Black boots with white stripes/swoosh/whatever.

Strip tucked in (even allowing for the rather "portly" physique of yours truly these days) at all times!

HAIL! HAIL!
Token

Paul67, I don't understand the point about fresh blood solving the problem, playing N'Guemo and Crosas, as against Hamburg, surely solves that problem? Crosas is underused, I don't understand why.

Up over the goal,

Fox was playing right in front of me for the second half (I was in the Gazebo). Apart from the cross for the 2nd goal he was constantly beaten by his direct opponent and eventually booked for pulling him back.

As for Naylor, god, I'm clutching at straws here:-)

Personally, I would take Wallace from herts.

And, another thing, Fortune and Samaras what is it wae the gloves?

Tom English: 'Bain came across as an apologist for the moronic tourists'
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Published Date: 08 November 2009
FOR MARTIN BAIN, the time has come to plea bargain. The Rangers chief executive will know that the violent scenes we saw in Bucharest on Wednesday night cannot go on much longer without the club getting hit with some kind of ban from European competition. Maybe the ban won't be handed down this time, maybe it won't happen next time either.
But as sure as night follows day, Bain must be certain that the next incident involving the vermin rump that attaches itself to his club is just around the corner. They've been fighting, periodically, for 40 years after all. There's
no reason to exp
ADVERTISEMENT
ect a peace pact at this stage.

Judging from his reaction to the trouble in Bucharest, Bain clearly needs advice. In attempting to divvy up the blame, on a 50-50 basis, between the thugs who broke up seats and flung them at stewards and the stewards themselves, he came across as an apologist for the moronic tourists. And not for the first time either. It would have been nice to hear him say that the CCTV footage – of outstanding quality, it seems – would be studied and the trouble-makers identified and banned from Ibrox for life. But he chose not to. He was as cringe-makingly wrong in his judgment last week as he was in his assertion, post Manchester, that the riots after the UEFA Cup final of 2008 were spearheaded by English hooligans. So, here's what he should do next. He should discreetly ask UEFA to forget any thought they may have of swingeing fines or points deductions or behind-closed-doors games at Ibrox and suggest instead, off the record, that a one-year ban be placed on Rangers supporters travelling abroad to follow their team.

He should do it because Rangers are heading for a significant sanction if some of their supporters keep up their current levels of hooliganism: Pamplona, Villarreal, Manchester and now Bucharest. He should do it because you get a sense around Ibrox that the club is at the end of its tether with these abusive half-wit fans and their refusal to take responsibility for their own actions. If you're Walter Smith, there is no downside to having the fans banned on the road. The constant threat of trouble is just not worth it. Having them banned at home, however, would be a nightmare, in terms of revenue and image and other things. Rangers are moving towards that point, though. Bain needs to pre-empt the doomsday scenario and he needs to do it quickly.

We could sit here all day going on about some of the Rangers support and their feeble attempts to deflect the blame for their own behaviour. Not only are these people violent, they are also thunderously stupid if they think that civilised Scotland is buying the excuses they've been trotting out since Wednesday night.

We've heard that old one about English accents infiltrating the ranks, the same pitiful argument they put up in the immediate aftermath of the Manchester riots, a bogus defence that came tumbling down around their ears just as soon as all that YouTube footage started to emerge and all those distinctly Scottish accents were heard from people in their unmistakably blue shirts seen rampaging around Manchester, smashing cars and windows, chucking bottles and attacking policemen. And each other.

UEFA washed its hands of the Manchester business. Shame on it for that. A city centre under siege and Michel Platini and chums turned and looked the other way. By rights, Rangers should have been banned from Europe for what happened down there.

It's always somebody else's fault as far as some Rangers fans are concerned. In Manchester, it was the fault of the local council for not anticipating the size of the visiting support, the fault of Tesco for selling them beer so early in the morning, the fault of the sunshine for frying the brains of the fans, the fault of the big screen for breaking down. In Bucharest, it was the fascist stewards and police to blame and the shite stadium and the poxy, rundown city and the closed turnstiles and, of course, the guys with the English accents stirring things up.

It has to be said that many Rangers fans have grown as weary of this kind of buck-passing as the rest of us, large elements of them condemning outright what went on in Bucharest. Many of them must be fearing a hefty punishment from UEFA on Thursday. Sure, the Unirea officials made a hash of things. Yes, those turnstiles should have been opened and, unquestionably, the behaviour of the Romanian stewards and police deserves investigation.

But Rangers shouldn't even be allowed to look at the moral high ground, never mind occupy it. Some of their fans dynamited their own credibility when they ran amok in Manchester and disgraced themselves in European games with Osasuna and Villarreal, not to mention the 17 arrests at the infamous Ibrox beam-back at the UEFA Cup final. At the club's own event there were Rangers fans led away with blood-stained jerseys, Rangers fans handcuffed on the ground, Rangers fans roaming about steaming drunk and looking to cause hassle. And even they could not find anybody to blame that night. There's just a hardcore of hopeless drunken neds that cling to Rangers and won't let go.

When they complain about over-zealous stewards and indiscriminate use of CS gas, they forget that the reason security personnel are jumpy is because of the foul reputation Rangers fans now have abroad. They can view YouTube in Bucharest as well, you know. They've seen the videos from Manchester. No Rangers fans should have been surprised to find an aggressive force in Romania. The reputation of the fans precedes them everywhere they go these days.

Bain would be doing the club, and their legions of proper supporters, a service if he made representations to UEFA and brought a halt to the trips. For without drastic action, Rangers are on a self-destructive road and are heading for the kind of punishment that will hurt the club to its core.

LuckyBhoy
Thanks. All the more surprising that the Beeb did not `highlighy` it then!

Cardiffbhoy,
I totally agree with everything you say re morale.
However I guess I still have patience for what TM is trying to build. I respect those who have run out.

Morale is unlikely to be good. It hasnt been since at least as far back as January. Same players, same level of morale.

The more players TM brings in the more morale will improve..I believe.

Indeed, 'the beatings will continue until moral improves'

Rangers must refuse tickets for Seville or risk a Euro ban
The JIM TRAYNOR COLUMN By Scott Marley on Nov 9, 09 09:51 AM in

Supporters' groups will be summoned and asked if they can be trusted to police themselves and maintain order when Rangers travel to Spain early next month.

Of course, they'll be indignant and insist they can. But the evidence screams they cannot.

Rangers fans have been asked previously to police themselves but you would have to admit they've failed miserably to do so. They mouth the words they know the club want to hear and offer assurances because they want the tickets, but the simple fact is Rangers fans can't be trusted to go abroad and do right by their club.

Harsh? Many will think so and many will believe this is just another press man having a go at Rangers and they'll close ranks to defend their club.

If only they were bold enough to do exactly that when they go abroad and isolate then identify the thugs hell bent on violence. But they didn't do it in Villarreal and they didn't shop anyone in Pamplona or Manchester so don't hold your breath waiting for the Bucharest bampots to be exposed.

The majority of Rangers fans ARE decent people but they, along with chairman Alastair Johnston and chief executive Martin Bain have to accept there is a malignant force, a badness, on the edges of their support.

And if they don't stop blaming foreign police forces and stewards and take drastic action UEFA will simply shut them out of Europe. And rightly so.

What price Rangers then?Who would buy a club cast out, barred from the top flight because of an evil that lingers on the fringes? The day after tomorrow UEFA will announce Rangers' punishment for the latest violent episode involving their fans. And although the governing body will stop short of a ban they will fine the already poverty-stricken Ibrox club heavily with one or two other sanctions and warnings attached. But more alarmingly perhaps, UEFA will be watching Rangers in Seville and any trouble there could bring the ultimate deterrent into play.

So Rangers shouldn't even be thinking about taking tickets for the match against Sevilla, even if the Spanish city's authorities were willing to impose an alcohol ban in an attempt to avoid scenes like those which made decent Scots recoil in horror last week. The stakes are just too high and this "we were provoked" line is tiresome.

We've all found ourselves at a standstill in queues at turnstiles and anyone who goes to football regularly will have been jostled by the police, pushed by stewards and generally been treated like cattle. It isn't pleasant, in fact it's unacceptable, but is it right to riot? There are some countries in Europe where foreign football fans just shouldn't go because the police are too quick to use unnecessary force and Spain is one of them.

Over the years I have seen innocent fans - including some in Rangers colours - in some of this country's cities clubbed or kicked by cops, but there should be no attempt to excuse what we witness time after time from that Unionist, FTP brigade and the downright mean and violent.

They have dragged Rangers to the very brink and there appears to be only one way the club can make sure they won't be hauled before UEFA again in the aftermath of the Sevilla match. They must refuse a ticket allocation.

All chief executive Bain, who must himself be demented by the thugs who travel in his club's name, has to do is call UEFA and tell them and Sevilla they won't be taking a single ticket for the final Group G match.

Rangers should then instruct their fans not to travel and also make it clear the club should not be held to account if any of their supporters manage to get their hands on tickets from Spanish sources.

"Hold on, this would be punishing the decent Rangers fans ..."

"This would be giving in to the half a dozen or so thugs ..."

"Why should the vast majority suffer because of a handful of morons ..."

First of all, the majority of Rangers fans are decent, law-abiding people but they have to stop deluding themselves. The morons are many.

We are not talking about a handful or half a dozen. They are a sizeable, twisted group and will bring this club down if nothing is done to halt them.

This is serious. Rangers are already on their knees financially and cannot afford to be involved in any more violent incidents or unruly behaviour. They need UEFA much more than the governing body needs them.

One wrong move, one raised voice, one stupid gesture in Seville and Rangers will be hit with the full force of the authorities.Why then, against this bleak backdrop, would Rangers even be considering taking tickets for the game in Spain? Seville is a lovely city and there will be perhaps as many as 2500 who have already booked flights and hotels with the intention of making a welcome winter break of the game and of course it would be unfair if they are denied tickets.

But it would be the lesser of two evils. Rangers could take the tickets and the match could be played out without incident, but can they run the risk? They can't and they shouldn't because the outcome could be that fans don't get to travel with their club in the future because their club is banned from playing.

Families and groups who have been looking forward to Seville will be furious if Rangers refuse tickets but UEFA are poised and the club's need of European football and the finance it brings is greater than anyone's need for a few days break.

It is unfortunate, but the price that will have to be paid should there be trouble in Seville would be too high. The fans who have booked need to ask themselves if they would rather see Rangers in Seville but never anywhere else in Europe for the next three, four or five years.

If it were my team I know what I'd prefer.

The Token Tim,

Don't forget the six inch metal studs:-)

Steinreignedsupreme

With regard to the Barcelona fans disrupting the minute's silence I thought it was a protest against their PM trying to make political advantage from the bombing by immediately blaming it on Basque separatists when he knew perfectly well they had nothing to do with it. So yes I had some sympathy for them. I think their rationale was probably better known in Spain than it was at Parkhead.

So far as remembrance day is concerned, do you not question why now, decades after the end of the second world war, we are being forced into having these displays?

Do you honestly think that the motivation behind this is to remember the dead of the two world wars?

JungleJim,

When i saw that offside was given I was a bit annoyed, but nowhere near as annoyed as I was at Samaras for missing yet another good chance.
The fact that he missed though, then rendered all our bullets for the linesman as blanks.

Useless and harmless!

Now if the big diddy had scored.......

HAIL! HAIL!
Token

Like timjim I'm sick of this silence issue, however I am much more concerned about what is happening on the field. Can anyone remember a worse performance then in the 1st. half yesterday. It was embarrassing and the killing thing is,it was on Sky TV so all detractors of Scottish Football could look on and scoff. We are currently involved with the Huns in a race to the bottom. We are both a joke in European terms and the table clearly shows that the likes of Hibs/Dundee United are breathing down our necks. Talk of a Hamburg hangover is frankly just insulting our intelligence. If highly trained and highly paid sportsmen cannot play 2 games in 3 days then something is very wrong. At this stage I am angry and frustrated, it seems its just a question of trying to hang in until January and hope that we can sell 5 or 6 and get in 2 or 3 quality players.The real heartache is that the current scenario is self inflicted by the Board.I have been following the Hoops for nigh on 50 years and I have rarely felt as angry as I do now.

From flying elvis earlier;-

"The fundamental problem is the managers insistence on playing two wide players who have no notion of defending/tracking back.
Invariably this means the opposition have carte blanche to run at dick and dom and overwhelm the full backs.
Time for the manager to wake up and smell the steaming pile of manure that our season is fast becoming, play an extra midfielder as we cant defend at all, if he cant see this someone in authority should put it to him forcibly that his jacket is on a shoogly peg if he doesnt pick things up.
I know we are top of the league but my eyes dont deceive me , we are dysfunctional throughout the team and the coaching staff seem oblivious to it."

Absolutely spot on.

I had hoped after Hamburg that Tony had perhaps seen the light on this, & also realised that he needs someone in midfield who can pass the ball, but it seems that my hopes were misplaced.

I genuinely fear for us if we keep Mowbray in the job much longer.

Steinreigns.....,
cheers for the reasoned argument for a change,
as for the funeral scenario, it would depend 100% on whose funeral, I'd have no problem with anyone disrupting lets say fred west's, myra hindley's, maggie thatchers none whtsoever.

The big difference in the silences you quote are they were all perpretated on civilians, those rememberence's were for and by civilians.

This remeberence was/is for perpretators of war, soldiers who by the very philosophy of what they do are professional killers. Again as I said I have no problem with the rememberence in its proper context, football is not the proper context and should not be imposed on us.
You know as well as me the agenda behind this is nothing to do with respect for dead soldiers, but an excuse to batter timmy if/when timmy does not behave. Well timmy did behave at the organised silence, your problem is that you think because your doing it everyone else should do it too. Again there was no organised silence outside the stadium therefore whats your gripe, your trying to condemn people not involved with the silence just as the wee free meeja hoped, instead of saying the Celtic support observed it impecably you attacked people not involved. Further you call them scum and morons because they dont agree with your dictat.
Dont kid yourself this is a 100% free speech issue and you have chosen to side with censure.

On the definition of NED.

I believe it is a corruption of the term Teddy Boys,a youth cult that emerged in the fifties, inspired by the Bill Haley music of Rock 'n'Roll.(Cinema seats torn up in riots,sort of thing. Sounds topical).

It was coined in recognition of the style of clothes these lads wore, based on the Edwardian era.

Long jackets, drainpipe trousers and, as a modern addition, thick crepe soled shoes.

The look was completed by a lace thin tie and a hair style consisting of a heavily greased quiff at the front and combed into a D.A.(duck's a..e) at the back.

They usually congregated around juke boxes with accompanying wasp-waisted, flared skirted, bobby sox wearing girlfriends.

Also they were not averse causing a bit of mayhem, when the occasion demanded and sometimes, when it didn't.

calton,

filed to a point!

:-)

HAIL! HAIL!
Token

Canamalar
West, Hindley and Thatcher! Love it!!

Luckybhoy.

The flag went up before Samaras took a shot and by then Mcdonald was onside [phase 2 i think]

O.B.

Published Date: 08 November 2009
By Erikka Askeland
ON THE same day that Rangers is due to answer to a misconduct case over supporter violence last week in Romania, the club will publish its annual results revealing losses of about £8 million.
The troubled Old Firm club is up for sale by its majority shareholder Sir David Murray and is currently struggling to find a buyer.

Rangers' debt stands at about £30 million and is growing.

Neil Patey, partner and football industry adviser at

Ernst & Young, estimates that Rangers will report losses on Thursday of £7m to £8m.

Last month the Glasgow team's coach Walter Smith sparked a sensation when he claimed Rangers is now being run by the club's debt holders, Lloyds Banking Group.

Speculation rested on the role of the club's new non-executive director, Donald Muir.

He represents Lloyds on the board and is charged with helping reduce the club's debt as well as finding a buyer for Murray's shares.

Experts say that unless a buyer is found the group will be forced to sell players. In a tough economic climate, where Lloyds recently announced a need to raise £25 billion to boost its balance sheet, it is unlikely the bank will continue to let the club's debt increase.

There has been a freeze on buying new players for the past 18 months. Without a sale to a new investor, player sell-offs could start as soon as the January transfer window opens.

Patey said any potential buyers would need to have an emotional tie to the group, as profits are unlikely in the medium term. In turn, any saviour looking to buy Sir David's 90 per cent stake would be in a good position to "drive a hard bargain".

Patey said: "Deep pockets out there, from the Middle East or America, are more attracted to the English Premiership. So unless you get an investor with a strong tie to Rangers they probably aren't interested in the SPL.

"The prospect of selling some of their assets (players] has got to be very real until such time as they have a new investor."

ticgaz,

Result of my 1st game c.30 years ago - as an 8 year old it was the best feeling ever!

BigChipUK

Ok, yer hired, performance related though at 3 pies a minute - and if ye sell any yev done well!

The only Free speech is that which the Establishment allow.

Lurgan53 @ 3.46

ha ha!

That's just cause your missus was ripping it out of ye earlier!

:-)

HAIL! HAIL!
Token

Manager's future comes before mine, insists Boyd

Published Date: 08 November 2009
By Moira Gordon
KRIS BOYD has goals in mind. But, as he closes in on Henrik Larsson's record as the SPL's all-time top scorer, he says it's not necessarily the ones on the pitch that are occupying his thoughts.
His contract is due to expire in the summer but he says he isn't even looking that far ahead. Not when there are more pressing goals. The club's financial plight is well-documented and the bank would prefer to cash in on players while they have the chance in January so Boyd's smile is a wry one when asked if contract-extension talks have stalled. "They never started. There's not been any, so they haven't started or stopped," he says. "There's a few in my position. I'm only a player. There's a full management team out of contract and with the club in the state it is I wouldn't worry too much about a player.There are more important things to worry about than Kris Boyd's contract.

"I said a couple of weeks ago, I was taking every game one at a time. The most important thing for me to focus on is each game. I'm not going to look to the long term because I don't know if it will be here or not. That's out of my hands."

The Token Tim,

Of course:-)

Right enough of this work lark. I'm off hame tae the Calton were I might venture out tonight to watch the locals play dominoes.

Then again, too much silence!

ChappingCSC

By thomthethim on November 9, 2009 3:50 PM

In addition they favoured the Edwardian clothes fashion which led to the title Teddy Boy and hence Ned.
Hail Hail

thomthetim

beat you to it. Sorry, not a point scoring exercise but I said it first. Na na na na na

Glancing through the English and Traynor articles posted above, it strikes me that both columns feature a banning on Them travelling to Europe for a prescribed time.

There is no way that They, UEFA or anyone else can ban people from travelling across the EU, unless for specific reasons,i.e. an individual has forfeited his/her right to travel due to criminal/security reasons.

Therefore, if you or I have travel and accommodation arrangements made to go on holiday, nothing short of war, can stop us travelling.

Think again, MR.Bain.

can we call them buckie fuelled Bill Haley Fans from now on?

UC

Long time reader, first time poster.

Poppygate and the proceeding 'minutes silence' debate is way over the top.

A more pressing issues is the condition of the celtic team. Personally think TM is receiving to much stick. WGS is a manager who wanted his team to play football in a attractive manner, yet had limited choices when trying to procure the correct player for the £x amount he had available to him. TM again wants to his team to play attractive football yet this has rarely been evident. Does this mean that they are bad managers and coaches? Nah, not having that, teams they have coached before have played attractive entertaining football, and have been successful in doing so as well to an extent. It obviously evident that signings are required, but can we expect these signings to drastically improve performance? Don't think so for the money we will be able to spend, unfortunately players such as Henrik and Lubo are a special and hard find for the price they cost!!

This time last year wgs was juggling about in defence with McManus Loovens and Caldwell.

Up front it was Samaras Mcdonald and Hesselink.

Nothing much has changed.

thomthethim

Who are the article's with in this weeks Celtic View?

notoneofthepeepilAuthor Profile Page on November 9, 2009 4:09 PM

thomthethim

Who are the article's with in this weeks Celtic View?

???

If the huns refuse to take tickets for Seville will they have to compensate Seville for the loss of revenue?

Well done Stars ,again , nice we 2nd at 12/1 ...good man keep up the good work..

Luckybhoy,

I've just looked at the frozen picture again and the linesman is pefectly in line with Samaras and the referee is in excellent position too. All he had to do was look at the six-yard line and Samaras and he would have seen two defenders yards behind.

O.B.

Pheersy

I backed it this morning at 25/1

Lot of money came for it late

Thought it was going to get up
Did you back it each way

paradisewindfall

It isn't because of his signings, on which the jury is still out, nor even so much his prior track record (pretty hopeless, in my opinion, & I can't see that he has been especially successful in any previous job) that many of us think that Tony is a poor manager, its the record of our own eyes, & the utter shambles that the team is currently in that does that!

The following deficiences, all of which are the managers responsibility, are in my view blindingly obvious:

1. We can't play with 2 wide players who can't defend.

2 We need a player in midfield, like Crosas or Donati, who can pass the ball. Robson/N'Guemo, & even worse, Brown/N'Guemo does not, & will not, work.

3. Whatever 2 central defenders he thinks works best ( & for me its Caldwell & Loovens, but the premise remains true whatever view of the best 2 you take), play them consistently- its the one area where its imperative to have the same 2 playing every week.

4. Skippy should never play as a lone striker.

5. If fit, Hinkel should always play ahead of Wilson

6. Sami should not play as a left midfielder/winger.

7. Do not take off most/all of your central midfielders & put on 4 strikers, or, even worse, 4 wingers when chasing a game. It will in almost all cases decrease the prospects of getting a goal.

8. Substitutions are supposed to give an opportunity to improve the on field performance, not to invariably make things worse.

I am sure that there are many other glaringly obvious things which i've missed...

Basically, on the evidence available so far, Tony is just not up to it, I'm afraid.

KrakowBhoyAuthor Profile Page on November 9, 2009 3:59 PM

Thanks for putting me in my place!:>)

Especially for making me trawl back and open your link. Very educational!:>)

Lubo & Gordon J,
To answer, I am reffering specifically at my prefference on the Hinkel position, I'm talking about days like yesterday when grit is required. Of course Henke, Lubo, Reiper etc were superior, but when the chips are down, I'd rather have Caddis than Hinkel, thats all. McManus is current proof if you want to blow me totally out of the water. I'm not asking for badge kissers who bless themselves, just someone we can depend upon in tough times.
Hinkel made some noises prior to the Hamburg game which did not please me and some others I know. I'd rather he did the talking after we beat them 1-0. He wasn't our worst player but he certainly didn't have the "bit between his teeth"
Rest assured, I'll be roaring Hinkel on at Tannadice but if its between the two,its Caddis for me and after all this time, I see no overwhelming proof of a "German Internationalist"

On Matters More Hopeful or Dreadful

Something for us Escapologists (*)

I understand that for the Gartside proposal to be adopted it would take 14 out of the 20 EPL teams to vote for change?

If that is so and given that the idea is to protect teams from the worst effects of relegation and to provide a wider distribution of TV money over the two divisions, which of the following teams would vote in favour for EPL2 and against?

1 Chelsea 12 6 0 0 16 1 4 0 2 13 7 21 30
2 Arsenal 11 5 0 0 20 4 3 1 2 16 10 22 25
3 Man Utd 12 5 1 0 13 7 3 0 3 10 5 11 25
4 Tottenham 12 4 0 2 12 6 3 1 2 11 11 6 22
5 Aston Villa 12 4 1 1 12 5 2 2 2 8 7 8 21
6 Man City 11 3 2 0 13 8 2 3 1 8 6 7 20
7 Liverpool 11 4 0 1 17 4 2 0 4 8 12 9 18
8 Sunderland 12 4 1 1 15 9 1 1 4 5 10 1 17
9 Stoke 12 3 1 2 8 7 1 3 2 4 8 -3 16
10 Burnley 12 5 0 1 10 5 0 1 5 5 20 -10 16
11 Fulham 11 3 0 2 7 5 1 3 2 7 9 0 15
12 Everton 11 2 3 1 9 10 2 0 3 6 7 -2 15
13 Wigan 12 2 2 2 6 9 2 0 4 7 13 -9 14
14 Blackburn 11 4 1 1 11 7 0 0 5 3 18 -11 13
15 Birmingham 11 2 2 2 4 4 1 0 4 4 8 -4 11
16 Bolton 11 1 2 3 8 13 2 0 3 7 11 -9 11
17 Hull 12 3 1 2 6 8 0 1 5 4 17 -15 11
18 West Ham 12 1 2 3 10 12 1 2 3 6 8 -4 10
19 Wolverhampton 12 1 2 3 5 10 1 2 3 7 12 -10 10
20 Portsmouth

Only Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal and Man City appear likely to be against. All it would take is one from Tottenham, Aston Villa and Liverpool to go for the lower risk approach to give you 14 for.

Does it benefit Liverpool or Villa to vote for the status quo? They both have American ownership and might see advantages to them in curbing the others' expansion. What would Spurs position be?

It does not necessarily mean an invite to ourselves or Rangers but a vote fpr EPL1 and 2 is not as far fetched as it once seemed.

* see what I just did there? ;)

STARS

thanks pal

i had picked Black dahlia

so put yours on ew(at 20`s)and did a reverse FC

nice one

must have been some cash for it late on

thanks again

By what is the stars on November 9, 2009 4:19 PM

yes each way so got 4/1 not a bad return

PF

No problem

I used to know the owner/breeder and he talked it up as a 2 year old.
But its now emigrated to England (like many a poor paddy before it) and was great value at a big price.
Thought it was going to get up.The money came very late.It was 25/1 about 5 minutes before the off

I've just had a moment of inspired thought

At last, with the answer to only one question we get to find out once and for all, completey without any doubt at all, whether or not The ginja ninja is a complete horse's hindquarters

M

I wasn’t at the game yesterday but listened on the tranny (oops I cant say that now) I listened on the radiogram, (the wireless if you like.) The boys singing aiden mcanespie were loud and clear so you can imagine my surprise when I heard today that they weren’t even in the ground. Its not very often that you can hear the noise outside the ground so loud.

Then at the second half of the game some eagle eyed offended callers advised radio Scotland that several celtic players didn’t have a poppy on their shirts. It took a few minutes but the presenter then advised that some of the Falkirk players didn’t have one either, apparently they just fell off the shirts poor manufacture or whatever, but you can just imagine the hun hordes frothing at the mouth e mailing and calling the BBC.
So if celtic don’t have a poppy on the shirt its wrong howevah if celtic and Falkirk both don’t have a poppy on the shirt its alright. You couldnae make it up.

The bestest, smallest, country etc.

Also Falkirk FC had the opportunity to applause rather than be silent so maybe they didn’t have the will to avoid/defeat the protest.

Don’t really care much one way or the other about the singing outside the park to be honest and if I need to leave my own particular politics at the turnstile then everyone else should as well and that includes poppies. End Of.

Mowbray
TM has won 24 out of 33 points or 73% of possible league points
Last season Celtic only won 70% of possible points
The season before, we won 78% of possible points and won the league
The season before we won 73% of possible points and still won the league (same as this season)

If you ask me it is just more of the same form by the same players that we have seen for a few seasons now.
We replaced lump of wood Hesselink with lump of wood Fortune.
It’s basically the same team playing the same rubbish that we have been playing now for about four seasons. Its not a new thing. It never started when TM came in the door.

If I do have a complaint about TM it is that he should NEVER have spent 4 million on Fortune for two reasons. First of all he is a lump of wood, secondly he is not even a centre forward lump of wood.

By CaltonTongues on November 9, 2009 3:57 PM

You should hear dominoes played in a Bajan Rum Shop!

Ernie Lynch - I think the reaction of the Barcelona fans had more to do with their hatred of Madrid than any alliance with the Basques. Certainly that’s how Spanish people I know viewed it at the time.

I am aware that in the past 30 years the poppy issue has become political. I don't wear a poppy for my own reasons but have respect for those who share my views as well as those who wear them. It's personal choice. My disagreement with canamalar is over disrupting the minute’s silence. I don’t think that can be defended.

Canamalar – the minute’s silence took place all over Britain this weekend, and whatever else it may or may not be it was definitely not set up as an excuse to nail “Timmy”.

I’m not sure where you go before you decide what your views are. I’m assuming your opinions must be influenced by a third party though as you constantly accuse me of being manipulated by others.

I’m not. I disagree with you on this topic. And you don’t exactly come across as subversive yourself.

I'll tell you what's bothering me about the current situation - the wage bill. Apparently - although I find this difficult to fathom - our current wage bill is not massively dissimilar to the MON/Larsson/Sutton/Hartson/Petrov/Thomson/Balde.... era wage bill. What is certain is that our current wage bill dwarfs those of 10 SPL teams by a significant margin. Celtic are paying well over the odds each and every week for mediocre footballers.

Most of us could compile a list of 6-10 players who we would happily 'move on' in January. The reality is that these players are unlikely to get offers from elsewhere to match the deals they are on at Celtic. Unless Boruc, Brown or McGeady receive offers from the lower reaches of the EPL we are likely to be stuck with the current squad until their contracts run down.

Oakbank Bhoy on November 9, 2009 4:18 PM
Luckybhoy,

I've just looked at the frozen picture again and the linesman is pefectly in line with Samaras and the referee is in excellent position too. All he had to do was look at the six-yard line and Samaras and he would have seen two defenders yards behind.

O.B.

No arguments that the linesmen got it wrong but I still think that Samaras was unaware that he had been blown for offside. With regards to Skippy and phase 2, I will bow to your superior knowledge,I still cant fathom out phase 1 ; )

I insist however that Samaras should have buried it with his eyes shut.

what is the stars on November 9, 2009 12:29 PM

Thanks for the Simla Sunset tip. Shame it didn't win but I was on it e/w at 28s :)

I'm looking for someone who fancies being a tipster at a site I run so if you or any of the other CQN napsters fancy giving it a go click on my name at the top there.

CFCnotPLC

By tamrabam on November 9, 2009 4:28 PM

With winter approaching I have a small stockpile of lumps of wood in my back garden.

I could hear howls of protest as I read your post and I now have a lump of wood at my back door demanding an apology.

Its argument, with which I have some sympathy, is that over the course of the winter said lumps of wood will do something useful by providing heat whereas JvOH and MAF are totally useless.
When I argued JVoH scored for Hull yesterday, it was dismissed as a spark.

If The strach comes in for

McManus
Caldwell
Skippy
Sammi the Hairdresser

he is without doubt a gold plated, first class, unequivocal, horses hindquarters

Simple

flying elvis

I agree with your post today, and have posted the same on various occasions usually when I've arrived home from a game and saw first hand, the inadequacies of TM's attacking team plan or lack of.

It is of course absurd to play two wingers, week in, week out leaving a narrow two men midfield to be overwhelmed, it's happened time and time again this season already. But the problem you allude to seems lost on TM and he went through the entire EPL season to be relegated, despite his "system" being commented on as flawed, by every football pundit in England. The midfield is simply outnumbered whilst we are away on the Cavalry Charge with wingers, and this is why the back four have had many a disaster, against average sides like Falkirk who at times yesterday, had five midfielders.

Do you think he knows another way playing the game? If he does he better change quick
because stubborness and stats like these would take him to January,

John Barnes: P21 W15 D0 L6 GF55 GA16

Tony Mowbray: P21 W8 D5 L8 GF32 GA22

HH

JohnnyClash

I think the similar wage bill to MON is down to inflation. Things have changed massively over the past 5/6 years

I do agree that they are all being paid far too much on current performances though.

I wouldn't sell McGeady or Boruc but I would get rid of Broonie if his touch doesn't return after injury.

I think WGS could be our saviour, I'm sure he'll take a few off our hands. As for M Brown, Flood etc I'm sure an SPL club will take them to recoup at least a bit of money.

would not take him to January

HH

p.s. fast fat fingers

Devils Advocate

Glad you get on and thanks for the offer but to be honest I dont think i'd be up to it.

I have lost patience with our central defence, but, in their defence, they received precisely NO cover from midfield yesterday.

Aiden McGeady and one or two others would thrive if they had three more very good quality players to play with. I am not sure you can blame him for running up blind alleys. what alternative does he have most of the time?

I was holding fire on Fortune but yesterday he was poor. I was expecting power and pace from him. I saw neither. paul67 alluded to his team mates being impressed with that aspect of his game. I haven't seen it yet. His touch is not good. I hope this is down to his return from injury and that he isn't another player incapable of the basics. Is there more to come from him? there must be. if not then we cannot put too much faith in Mowbray's ability to spot a player - he worked with the guy for three or four months FFS!

I happy clapped my way through the last season. My reasons for being happy or clappy with this crop of Celtic players are thin on the ground.

On the plus side - we drew a game we should have lost. We made and scored chances. It was a traditional return from Europe game. falkirk were fresher and more motivated (not really an up side!) and I can almost excuse the guys for being tired of mind and weary of limb.

When ZZ came on I thought we looked better going forward. he didn't do anything special other than found his team mates with the ball more often than not. A clever player.

I raved about Crosas last year. I think he is our man. I also think Robson wide left with N'Guemo (who I thought was poor yesterday and gets the wrong side of his man too often) and Crosas central, McGeady wide right would be a better looking midfield with the necessary bite to impose ourselves on games like yesterdays.

Arsenal won easily on saturday because they have learned to win the physical battle. We lost too many breakdowns/ second balls/ 50-50's. Sort that out, sort the defensive cover out and we will win games like yesterdays.

Is there much press reaction to the perfectly good goal we had disallowed? No? Strange.

My thoughts on Poppygate to follow. I'm sure you can't wait.

Huns V St Johnstone in CIS semi.

Bourne
Good consistent play based on a strong defence allows you to dictatate the pace of the game in different ways. The Philosophy seems to be of a Chicken LIckin variety were everyone runs about in a blind panic and you know who benefits, yes Mr Foxy Loxy.

HH

Paul67,

Telling you, Danny Fox for left midfield and Brandan for left back with Mathias Jorgensen and Solvi Ottensen at centre half, maybe Jan Durica. Bob's your uncle, TM a legend, everybody happy.

By JohnnyClash on November 9, 2009 4:29 PM

Remember that to pay and maintain the Seville squad today would cost at least double what it cost then.

If you have any idea what Petrov is on at Villa pw now use that as a midpoint and use it to estimate what it would take to attract and keep Larson, Sutton, Hartson, Lennon etc.

Once you go below that band into mediocrity land you end up paying too much for said mediocrity, because the higher (and better) paid footballers, fueled by TV money, have pulled up the price of the mediocrity below them.

Real value, if you accept real equals the true reflection in wages for the labour they provide in exchange, is way below the market value which is the inflated wages clubs (encouraged by fans) are prepared to pay. For example why pay £3M for MAF when the St Johnstone striker Colin Samuel is as likely to be as effective for what £250,000?

roythebhoy,

Doesn't answer the question at all.

And as for proof that Hinkel is a German international - he has German international caps. What more proof could you possibly need?

Poppygate - my last word. Jungle Jim has it right when he tells us that the only free speech allowed is that of the establishment.

I am utterly disgusted that Celtic were forced to wear a symbol of military dead on OUR jersey. And it is a symbol of MILITARY dead. it does not remember the innocent victims and it certainly does not remember the victims of the British forces.

I happened to see Charlie Boardmans programme last night. he was in Hiroshima. He looked at pictures of the aftermath of what happened there. Yes, I know that was the yanks, our nearest and dearest allies, but it made me think of the consequences of all wars and the sheer scale of what the powerful nations on this earth have inflicted on people.

The Poppy, to me, is an empty gesture, an excuse, a cop out - and a continued excuse for what they continue to inflict on others in the name of 'western values'. I am sick to my core that Celtic football club and every other football club in the land was USED as a prop to the establishment. This relatively new initiative needs to be stopped and confronted by anti-war people not misguided and sometimes drunken youths. there has to be an intellectual challenge to it. But who, in these most censorious of times would dare attack the establishment lest they be accused of criticising our brave murderers in uniform?

I was disappointed in the players yesterday, not only for their 'efforts' on the park but that not one of them had the guts or perhaps even the inclination to stand up to the poppy fascism and refuse to wear it.

Won't somebody somewhere please stand up to this new world order concensus?

I'm intrigued... lots of different opinions on whether Macdonald was offside or not yesterday. Does anyone actually know the laws of the game and can provide a definitive answer?

Cleary he was offside when the ball came through to Samaras but as we all know he was not interfering with play.

But the question is when the goalie save it and the ball came to him... is he onside as that ball came sideways and anyway came off an opponent... Or is he offside as he never got back onside from the original pass?

I genuinely have no idea... but at least I can admit it... Lots of definitive statements on here but I'm wondering if anyone actually knows?

B

bigchipsuk, spot on mate. Tony's system is hopeless, concentrating on wing play, why else is sammi galloping about over there on the wing? because he has been told to, as a result of wing based play we are exposed in the middle and we struggle against EVERYONE. I cannot understand why Tony cannot see this?

the system should be adaptable to take into account the squad you have and play a system which plays to the players strengths.

This is Tony's biggest problem as celtic manager, he doesnt have 3 years to slowly get the players to fit his antiquated system, therefore he must be dynamic, I fear this is not possible

stars
just checked result very unlucky keep them coming,hh

fox...no better than naylor
fortune...no better than a big lump of wood

i wouldnt give him a bean

what is the stars,

No problem, just thought I'd ask. There are some guys on here who seem to know their stuff when it come to the GGs. If you don't mind I might share some of your future tips over there.

CFCnotPLC

Below is some funnies taken from Artur Boruc's Twitter site & printed in The Alternative View.

ON THE MORNING AFTER THE RECENT HEARTS CUP DEFEAT
"On way to Lennoxtown...going to be fun there today NOT!!! That's it i'm playing striker when fit! ha ha"

AFTER RANGERS WERE THUMPED 1-4 BY UNIREA
"Carlsberg don't do Tuesday nights.....oh wait maybe they do"

ONE MORNING IT WAS RAINING
"I put gel in my hair this morning WHY!!! it all run into my eyes on the walk to my car"

AFTER THE 0-0 MOTHERWELL GAME JUST PRIOR TO THE HAMBURG HOME GAME
"Back home, bad result today. I have nominated myself for striker position for Thursday ha ha"

JUST AFTER OUR DEFEAT IN TEL AVIV
"Again i would just like to apologise to fans who travelled on Thursday and to the fans who watched it on TV....Bad result"

WHEN TRAVELLING TO EUROPE
"My cell has switched provider again...saying Cellcom now lol"

ARRIVING IN TEL AVIV
"Tel Aviv is very warm, hotel isn't that great"

IT'S A HARD LIFE FOR A FOOTBALLER AND IT'S TIME TO EAT
"Finished for day. Merchant City for some lunch & coffee"

IN THE DRESSING ROOM AT EASTER RD
"Gaffer took my phone as was texting in changing room. Got it back now....Good game, happy with my performance"

ON DONATI LEAVING CELTIC
"Quiet day, good luck Massimo i'll miss you mate"

ON EDUARDO APPROACHING HIM AFTER THE EMIRATES GAME
"He has cheek to try and shake my hand in players lounge.....Darren O'Dea and i walk away from him..."

ON THE EDUARDO CHALLENGE
"Was there a sharp shooter in london tonight as i'm sure i didn't touch him???"

AFTER THE HEARTS LEAGUE GAME
Back home now. Hard 3 points...not seen penalty call yet. Seriously, when was last time the team got a pen i can't remember???"

AT THE START OF THE NEW SEASON
"Day off, going to it my gym for a few hours. Totally focused on the new season. I'm a new man this season = NO F##K UPS!!!"

ON A TEAM PICTURETHAT ARTUR DIDN'T APPEAR IN
"For all asking i'm not in the Lennoxtown squad picture because i took the picture lol. No seriously this not the official squad photo."

WHEN THE RUMOURS WERE DOING THE ROUNDS THAT MCGEADY WAS LEAVING
"For all the people asking, i don't know anything about Aiden leaving. Phone and ask him his cell number is 0874.....lol lol"

AFTER THE ARSENAL HOME GAME
"Well that was unlucky last night. Didn't have much to do, but didn't have a chance with any of those so called goals. No training today"

===================================================================

Hail Hail

Steinreignedsupreme

I wasn't suggesting that the Barca fans were protesting in favour of the Basques.

Rather they were protesting against their PM for blaming the Basques for the bombing when he knew they were not involved. In doing so he was seeking to gain electoral advantage from a human tragedy that his own government's policies had to some extent brought about. You will recall that this happened just before the Spanish elections.

In some ways there are some parallels between that event and what occurred on Sunday.

I repeat what I said earlier.

Why is it that only now, 60 years after the end of the second world war, we are being forced to have poppies on the shirts and a minute's silence?

We've managed without it up until now with no evident disrespect to the war dead.

What has happened in the last few years that has resulted in the powers that be insisting on us making these public displays?

Who is benefiting from this change in policy?

By roberttressell on November 9, 2009 4:47 PM

There is a consensus emerging that we canot afford two wingers who cannot defend and that has been the staple formation for the SPL.

3-5-2 or 4-4-1-1 have ben suggested to make better use of the personnel we do have. I think one of the reasons Falkirk outplayed us first half was that in a way the Celtic players underestimated them beforehand. A lack of respect for fellow professionals, mirrored to some extent by some of the support. Last season it was ICTFFS, this year it is FalkirkFFS. It is a mindset that serves neither the players or support who hold it.

We are not good enough to think we only need to turn up or that they will be dazzled by our wing play. We need to earn the respect we did not afford them by earning it with graft and commitment, both qualities that were missing in the first 45 mins.

BromleyBhoy,

There are wee "You Are The Ref" style drawings in the Laws of the Game to illustrate some of the less straightforward aspects of offside. These would suggest that MacDonald should have been ruled offside as he gains an advantage from his original position when the ball was played to Samaras.

Had Sami scored then MacDonald was not interfering with play, therefore it would have been a goal.

Celtic need to move the ball about quicker. The modern game at European competition level is all about pace and possession. We should be out playing SPL opposition. Especially an SPL team with 7 first team regulars out and sitting bottom of the SPL I.e Keeping control of the ball and moving it at a quick tempo preferably forward if possible.

I think that Mc Geady, Maloney, Brown, Mac Donald, Samaras, Mc Manus, Robson, Mc Court and Killen cannot handle this basic need and it will never be coached into them. Old dogs new tricks etc. For me they are all flawed players. How many years is it going to take for Aiden Mc Geady to realise that when he´s been doubled up on he should be trying at least 50% of the time to move the ball on sharpish.

Too many inflated ego´s in indirect proportion to what they give to the team. Although they talk a good team game. Aiden, Shaun, Sammy, Mc Donald, Pat are all greedy and mainly focus on their own performance first. Trying to hard to impress ? Maybe but I would punt any if offered a reasonable fee.

N´Guemo and Crosas the jury is still out for me on them. They get caught in possession too much but I reckon that is more to do with a lack of option off the ball. Zhi I haven´t seen enough of.

Boruc, Hinkel, Fox, Crosas, NGuemo, Zhi, Loovens and Caldwell are the only players I would keep. Mc Ginn I would also persevere with.

Time to move out those players that blew 9 in a row last year. I have now seen enough proof that they are not up to it and I am certain so has Tony Mowbary.

HAil Hail

Gordon_J,

Cheers for that! I will accept your word for that.

In that case who cares about whether BBC Scotland show it or not... utterly irrelevant to the result.

B

roberttressell on November 9, 2009 4:59 PM

Excellent, thoughtful post.

Devils Advocate

No problem,feel free to re post my tips/hunches anywhere any time.

Best of luck

Cypbhoyo

yes I thought we had it

It was 25/1 with only a few minutes to the off and then it was backed into 11/1.another few yards and we were in

hope you backed it each way

You are of course correct Auldheid. When I play football, and it is not to a great standard, I know when I am better than an opponent. If he gets the better of me it makes me angry. I bust a gut to make sure he doesn't beat me to a ball again.

If I, a humble if competitive and rotten footballer feels this and it drives me on in meaningless games, why the hell do the well paid incumbents of the Celtic Jersey not feel the same

BromleyBhoy on November 9, 2009 5:00 PM

In my own opinion (humble at that) Skippy was offside when Samaras missed the open goal. Oakbank Bhoy is insistent that when the ball came out to Skippy he was onside as play was now in phase 2 - whatever that means.

Doug Stanhope getting tore into the huns!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9miO-iqElFg

Thanks what is the stars.

Will be keeping an eye out for ones in the future ;)

stars
on the nose ,but it was bookies money no problem,thanks for tips,
hh
tick tock.

Harry F

Indeed much in the way MON did, fill the team with giants.

The core of the side McManus and Caldwell was the wrong route taken by WGS, McManus cost nothing so no loss, cover at best, and alot of people forget that Caldwell was a Bosman so nothing plus nothing, makes nothing.

If he's still around in January which at this moment in time I genuinely doubt TM should start again with not one, but two Centre Halves, and of course abandon his silly Cavalry Charge.

HH

Exiled Bhoy...

If The strach comes in for

McManus
Caldwell
Skippy
Sammi the Hairdresser

then he will be my hero!!!

Ernie Lynch - in 1995 when the 50th anniversary of WW2 ending, there was a big effort to mark the poppy event outside the usual environments, and football matches were among them. From that point it has gradually become the norm and with the grief culture that now exists after Diana Spencer’s car crash the country is now in the current position over these matters.

The establishment benefits as far as I can make out.

Glad to see that you didn't single out the central defence Paul.

We attack and defend as a unit - the best of players in any position will be seriously undermined if the shape of the team around them is wrong.

Since we switched to 442 we've been playing a high risk strategy. Not enough credit, by far, has been given to the defenders and midfielders when this works.

On the other hand, with two wingers and only two centre halves behind them the two midfielders have to be pretty awesome most weeks. We simply don't have those players on our books.... The midfield needs Crosas, or Donati or any dude who knows how to pass and move in tight area's allowing us to retain possession consistently - this feeds the wingers and reduces pressure on the two at the back. When we fail to do this, those guys have a nightmare scenario on their hands.

I commend the 442, cos big clubs don't play 5 at the back, but we need to get real as fans, and Mowbray needs to recognise the need for a passer in the middle.

On that point, Robson will never be the answer, and i'm terribly sorry to say has no place in our 4 man midfield. Crosas seems to fit, N'Guemo and Brown may fit alongside him.

Steinreignedsupreme

It's only been in the last couple of years that the poppy day/minute's silence has become compulsory at football games.

This has absolutely nothing to do with honouring those who died in the two world wars.

This shift in policy is a cynical attempt to exploit the genuine and sincere feelings people have about the war dead to create a climate of opinion in which the military move from the margins to a more central role in society and the public consciousness.

Veno's Fact Syrup - #13

By roberttressell on November 9, 2009 5:18 PM

They did raise their game in the 2nd half but by then the damage was done.

Wrong attitude, wrong formation.

After every European game I am wary of a reaction because it has happened before with better teams than this one but I thought

"Its only Falkirk"

I think the manager and players, based on the first half, thought the same.

That will teach me.

Celtic at the moment are going nowhere fast First thing the team needs is a captain preferably a central defender or a midfielder someone who will organise and shout and swear and if necessary throw tonys team plan out the window to get a win i would love to see four players signed in january although i know this is a near impossibility so in january sign a good forward a central defender and a midfielder but make sure they count no great white hopes couldve been contenders players that will put and keep bums in seats prospectors are only interested in opportunity's fans are likewise give either deadwood and they will find other fields to plough invest or be damned move forward learn from their mistakes by god there have been plenty

Ernie Lynch - seems we are in agreement.

Awe Naw,

If you are still around.
Are there any celebrations in your part of Germany to mark the fall of the Berlin Wall, or are they confined to that city itself.

I see on the News here that there has been a lot of events planned to mark the significance of,perhaps the biggest post war political event of the last century.

It was such a beautiful day in Dublin yesterday that the squaw and I decided to take a walk on Killiney beach and finished up with a nice lunch in a local shebeen.

If Celtic are on TV I usually prefer to watch the live telecast but on this occasion I decided to record the game with this new gadget I got from NTL which needs no tapes or discs, pause TV the lot - fantastic. Thought a handy 3 points were in the bag.

Got home just in time to see most of the Chelsea-Manure bore fest and then settled down to see an almost guaranteed Celts win.

It was plain to see that our lads reckoned that they just had to turn up to claim the 3 points. They were way off the pace and were run ragged by a feisty bunch of whippersnappers who had only scored 6 goals in all their previous SPL games.

What's Aiden doing taking penalties? he just does not look right. Shocking defending but two great strikes by Skippy and Samaras can play some fine football when he puts his mind to it. Dreadful decision by the officials denied us a winner at the death.

Might have been mentioned yesterday but TM on SSN was very depressing. He looked totally miserable and didn't even bother to complain about the Samaras offside.
Somebody said that his family have not moved up to Scotland so in these circumstances will he hang around much longer? He is very obviously a decent man but not maybe right for Celtic manager. Perhaps a break might be best for all parties.
On the morale front, guys like McManus, Hinkel, Maloney, Sammi all seem to be good blokes (if not players!). Why should the squad seemingly despise each other? Remember the togetherness after Helicopter Thursday and the League Cup victory?
I don't know what's going on with a squad with 22 or so full internationals but I can't believe they're as bad as yesterday.
I'm not a MON worshipper but if he was in charge this year with these players, we wouldn't have dropped a point.

I return to my theme of yesterday..

"How to Mak a Team of Winners oo of a Team of Duffers."

Simple..

MOTIVATE! ..dinnae... DENIGRATE or.. EXCORIATE!

Read oan.. and Weep...

Falkirk.. a Team struggling..and definitely, an Outstanding Candidate fur Demotion to the lower echelons of Soccerdom, having not been able to secure one victory In League games this season... Ah believe.

Celtic, a Team sitting..at the Top of the Heap..

Rather Gingerly, of course,Howevahhhh, we shall not go into that...

but, oan the Surface,Celtic,was the Gold Plated Favourite, in the now passed, Confronto, that took place, yesterday,between the two Forces.

The Final Result...

Was a disconcerting Surprise... or wiz it Really..a .. Surprise,at awe?

A Tie Game..

In fact, a Game that could have very easily gone the
way of the Underdog.

Nevahtheless..it wiz..

No tae .. Yours in Celtic..fur, it only underlined and vindicated, my criticisms that I have bin Voicing agin the Celtic Manager since the Git Go, and has continued, unabated, during his Tenancy at Parkheid oan the Clyde.

Fur the Elucidation o' anybody who hiz bin sequestered oan a Retreat tae Lourdes..

My Criticisms hiv been maist strident and vociferous,as Ah believe
that Mr. Mowbray is ..to put it, Mildly.. Not Equipped, Mentally.. to be the Celtic Manager, and all the contingencies, that position entails.

And..the reason for this sad state of the Union..is this..

Mr. Mowbray, has no more of an Idea of How to ..Motivate..as, yours in Celtic, Has... in Piloting, a Flying Fortress!

Howevahhhhhh..

It is evidential, that the FALKIRK, Manager.. soitenly.. Managed that very Deed!

At least, he had it for that particular game.

Obviously, he disnae have it as a permanent quality in his approach
tae coaching..

Nevertheless..for that One and Rare occasion, this season..

He marshalled his Pitiful Regiment of No Hopers..and with a Team
comprised mainly of Inexperienced Youths..

Held the Mighty and Star Studded,Celtic..relatively speaking, I hasten to add..
And almost... and I say, Almost...Put them to the Sword!

See.. guys..

Like Ah told ye.

Motivation, Woiks!

It is a real Talent...and it definitely Woiks, when employed,skilfully, by the Right Person.

Howevahhhhhh.. No everybody has Goat it..some hiv a sprinkling of it..but only a Handful of Managers hiv goat it in, Abbundanza.

And One,of that aforementioned talented Handful, is the exact Kind of Manager,that Celtic Needs..

A Manager, who has the Motivational Talent to imbue Confidence,and thereby.. be able to make his Charges ..

RISE TO THE OCCASION.. no matter the REPUTATION of the Opposition.

After viewing the Falkirk, debacle.. it seems tae me..

The Mr.Mowbray, rather than having that rare Talent,to be able to
Motivate his players..has the extremely Unwanted, and Opposite Talent...to be able of Suck out most of the needed Confidence from his Players..like a.. well..

Vampire!

It is becoming glaring clear.. and that's clear!

That Mr.Mowbray's present position, is becoming, by each succeeding game, very much of a temporary one.

Kojo.

I like Tony Mowbray, he’s a good man, a good Celtic man with values we admire. Unfortunately for whatever reason I think some of the senior players don’t like him or are threatened by him, they want him sacked. Tony must do whatever it takes to struggle through to January and hope he is lucky in getting rid of the conspirators. In Tony we must trust, the players should be ashamed of themselves. Tony take out the conspirators and bring in the bhoys of Bhoystown, the fans will back you all the way.

Evenin folks.
While I realise that we should have hammered Falkirk yesterday, rather than relying on a last minute winner, I just feel this has to be said.
Just saw the goals from the Huns game there.
In their second goal, as the ball is played forward to Novo, who is onside, Kris Boyd is standing in the centre of the area, in an offside position.
Novo then squares the ball to Boyd, who taps in.
So...if Skippy was offside, then Boyd was also offside. I mean the circumstances are almost identical, aren't they. Only the team colours are different.
Funny how match officials only deemed one offside.

Bournesouprecipe
If it was a Calvary charge then it was well disguised.
Our only shots in 1st half was AIdens penalty and rebound.

Dont know if someone picked up on this in a earlier post, But when will the manager stop Gary(Franz) Caldwell from pumping the ball upfield to the oppositon and giving possession away far to easily. In yesterdays game this happened ONLY 15 times!!!
If you keep letting him try these 40 yard balloon passes and keep missing out our midfield players the creativity of our team becomes redundant and players like Paddy McCourt become reluctant passengers as the ball is always over the top instead of ball to feet, Were we will see the talent he pocesses to weave his tricks....So Tony tell Gary to pass to players wearing hoops the next time he decides to think he is Franz Backenburer!!?

Kojo,
I disagree in spades.
See 'aviewfaethewindae' last post

AULDBHOY,
Do you think Caldwell could do with watching a George Connelly DVD?

wizard of oz
its always like that at celtic we play against 12 every week bid jock always said take referee out the game score more goals,

AULDBHOY,

Regarding Gary Caldwell,

I agree he does play the ball rather aimlessly forward at times. Or so it would seem. But if there isn't a closer option to him wishing to receive a pass then what is he to do...?

There needs to be a desire to come and look for the ball from the CB's.

Gordon J
Sorry if I haven't answered to your satisfaction so we can close this out. I'll try again. As far back as the Barca and Man Utd (second time around) ties, I could scream at the lack of passion amongst the squad. Not the lack of passion from one player in particular, just the general apathy. Passion comes from a love of this club. Henke was Celtic, so was Lubo. We need more like this. I don't think Hinkel will ever possess that passion. Pauls article reffered in particular to this guy. Proof of quality for me is not in the fact he has these caps, its what he does in the hoops.
Currently, our team is populated by average Joes who's best is not enough. I consider Andreas Hinkel as one such player and discussion in the car coming home from matches leads me to think I am not alone.
I'm not picking on him in particular, it was the topic today. He is far from the worst. Lets face it, we could rant about the centre backs till Easter. I stated what my thoughts are on the guy. The problems of course are far deeper rooted than the right back.
Thanks for responding, helped me through a crap afternoon and you've made me consider my comments, I'll stick by them though.
roythebhoy

Auldbhoy
G Caldwell still living off pass to SMcD for layoff to JVOH in 3-2 huns game.The fact that the other 29 of the 30 passes he made that night gave possession away escaped him and many fans notice.
He is consistent though in his ability to step to the side and hoof a diagonal ball to our opponents.

viewfaethewindae

Your theory falls down straight away with a look at player performances.

The players you accuse of being the conspirators - I'm assuming you mean players such as Boruc, Robson, Caldwell and Mcdonald - have been doing their utmost and playing better than most.

It is Mowbrays' favourites - chief among them Brown, Mcgeady, Fox, Fortune, N'Guemo and Zhi who have been handing in the flat souffles more often than not.

If the senior players are so against Tony, how come they're not doing more to undermine him by playing badly?

Auldbhoy
Surely it would be better just leaving G Caldwell in the stand,he will not listen to anyone,after all was it not him that said last season,that the players will decide if they played well or not.Get rid of as quick as possible.Slan

Paul67

"It might take fresh blood to sort out the problems in defence but the resources exist to provide better cover"

Who is this resource you refer to?

Kojo
You must agree that it shouldn't be a problem motivating players for a match against Celtic or TFD. Usually when a team has a good result against us or the horribles, they then come a cropper in their next game. I've thought of looking into it as a betting system. The converse applies as well. If they get stuffed 6-0 or 7-0, they usually win their next match. A good example is St Mirren last year.

Added to the extra motivation, a player from Falkirk knows that when he's going to be playing Celtic that there won't be any rough stuff or unpleasantness in comparison to that other mob.

I haven't read back every post on this thread but I assume that Andreas Hinkel is the whipping bhoy for today...?

Does a defender need to throw himself into bone crunching tackles every game to prove he has a passion for the club...?

How much help did Paddy McCourt offer him on Sunday?

fan-a-tic

Aye well right enough fair point.

It got slaughtered like a lot of Calvalry Charges do, scattered all over the pitch running about in different directions like headless chickens chasing Falkirk reserve players.

Maybe more a Cavalry Charge mentality, like every SPL game we've played attack with two wide men that can't support the midfield and have two full backs constantly awol, putting massive pressure on two dodgy centre backs, we scored four goals when we eventually put our only natural if not greatly, gifted goalscorer on the park.

Call it what you will, whatever it was, it was mince

HH

cypbhoyo @ 6:33 PM
Agree, but actually we did score more goals, the fourth being more than their three. However, the match officials took us out of the game.

Paul67:

Have to admit that I'm really disappointed in the plethora of insults that people have chosen to use in place of debate on the blog in the last few days.

I understand that people have strong feelings but that is no excuse. Lots of people who feel very strongly manage not to resort to such pathetic behaviour.

Whilst I understand that you can't be on the blog all the time or read every post, I'm equally disappointed that all these insults remain. It reflects badly on a forum for which I have every respect. Would appreciate your thoughts when you get a sec.

Cheers...

PeteTheBeat

I agree the uprooting of families must be a huge problem for managers and players in this profession. In your post you mention of discord among the Celtic squad or despising one and other - strong language. Where did you hear this? We do have a lot of very good players at the club and to drop points to a team like Falkirk who are in the throes of almost despair was inexcusable.

up_over_goal
So you don’t agree, no worries.
What I see are two players in particular McManus and MacDonald who don’t particularly care for Mowbray. When you have that situation the feelings tend to permutate down through the squad. The squad has been going downhill for two years, a massive gut out is required ASAP. So if Tony Mowbray isn’t the answer, who do you recommend?

bourne @ 4.40

Couldn't agree more. Would you be happy with a team of:

Zaluska
Hinkel Caldwell Loovens FOx
Robson Crosas N'Guemo
Zhi
Samaras McDonald

Gives us fluidity - it's 4-3-1-2, but can be 442, can be 433, can be 424. No wingers for me. We are too easy to play against - in more ways than one, but one is any team plays 4-5-1, we get flooded in midfield and can't cope - witness yesterday... Our wingers are a liability in terms of effective defending, leaving full-backs exposed, centre-mid cover them and leave a gaping hole in the middle, and as a result, the centre-backs are exposed. They ain't great, but can be better protected (two and a half clean sheets prior to the second 45 yesterday). And don't get me started on stopping crosses... We're too often an easy touch.

I know there's no McGeady or McCourt - either could fit the Zhi role behind the front two. McGeady up top could be interesting too.

CSIAL

one or two have decided to get at hinkel tonight

why...i have no idea

what i do know is without his assists this season we`d be in even deeper crap

imo he has been our best player this season

really don`t know what game some people watch

Chris sutton is a legend

Alemannia Aachen, Basel and Nantes.

EN

roythebhoy,

Understand now. I would have hoped that any player getting paid what they get paid these days would show some passion for doing his job though.

Can anyone help it is regarding Paul McSTAY playing for Scotland i am sure he was going for a record of consecutive apperences when CRAIG BROWN the Scotland manager dropped Paul BROWN denies it can anyone HELP

Yesterday's problems stemmed from the midfield.

We were undermanned in that department and it showed.

I posted at half time yesterday that to play with five attacking players, including Robson, was an arrogance.

As a result, we surrendered the midfield and forced the defenders to hump the ball forward.

Falkirk defenders gobbled this up and proceeded to play through our depleted midfield.

During the first half in particular, not one decent ball was played to our front men and our wingers were starved of any possession or support.

Recently, I have been having doubts as to the quality of Fox.

The boy cannot defend and has no positional awareness. He also appears to be slow in thought and looks indecisive when on the ball.

In short, I don't think he is the answer to the left back problem and is no better in the position than Charlie Mulgrew was. Plus, CM had a much better delivery.

For those advocating him as a left midfielder, a la Thompson, well I don't think he has the football brain that Alan had.

CSIAL

oh and McCourt lack of effort and interest was despicable

Paul 67

We need to protect the centre halves, 2 intelligent players in the middle is the answer, NGuemo and Crosas, as you point out.

I suspect Landro has no idea what Robbo is doing and vice versa.

Have we won a game since Robbo came back in the starting 11, Motherwell, Hearts, Falkirk, Hamburg ......it's not getting at Robbo (honest trier and you can always carry 1 passenger if the others are performing).....but if I was BTM I would stick with Loovens and Nguemo and Crosas (opinion chnaged on Brown)

mungo boy,
Wullie Ormond did that to Dalglish when he was about to take the record off a Rangers player, not sure about Paul, don't think so.

Bournesouprecipe
Absolutely agree.
I COULD SEE NO SEMBLANCE OF TACTIC'S OR TEAM SHAPE.
Mince was perfect description.

mungo boy.

Think that was Kenny Dalglish.

PF ayr,

Agree totally regarding Hinkel. I'm not suggesting he had a good game on Sunday. Not for a minute. But to turn into the whipping bhoy... that just beggars belief for me. No wonder the players are scared to perform. One bad game and you're John Dillinger.

EN,

How certain are you as I haven't time to check as I'm playing football soon but I'll stick something on if you feel it has a good chance.

phase 1 - ball played thro to samaras - he collects the ball - macdonald was offside as pass was played but he was passive for phase 1 - sammi was as onside as you'll ever see a player to be in the oppositions penalty area

sammmi has collected the ball - phase 2 begins - phase 1 is over -was macdonald offside when samaras took his shot ?

i was by that time cursing the official who has his arm raised quicker than a red hand salute in isreal as sammi collects the ball

FANANDPATRIOT

Wasnt it Gary Caldwell who said he was worth £19000 a week!!!

Get rid of him NOW!! The stands to good for him!!

I bet that he wouldnt spend HIS money on season book to watch

from the stands neither!!

My dear,dear,dear,dear,dear,dear,dear,dear,dear,friend..Pete the Beat.

I agree, completely,pal..

It is much easier to Motivate an Underdog.

I did mention the fact, that the Falkirk Manager, was not an Every Game type Motivator, in my ultimate posting.

That Notwithstanding..

The Thrust of my point..is that Mr. Mowbray is INCAPABLE of
Motivating his charges, for ANY CONFRONTATION..

And that particular Lack, in his Managerial Compendium of Talents..is most Damning.

Kojo.
yer pal..who likes ye a loat.

Chris sutton is a legend

Did a wee bit of research. Good chance, 10/11, 1/2, 1/2.

EN

a mate of mines said - give caldwell a new contract - 20-25k a year - then punt him

Bloke 109
I agree if we are playing with attacking wingbacks then we don't need to play with 2 wingers.

obvioulsy meant 20-25k a week !!

Kojo

Motivation comes from within.A manager cant motivate.He can provide the platform and the reasons for indviduals to motivate themselves.

Self motivation is based on a pride in your work

As you frequently reminded us last season, its the players at fault.Not one of those players showed any pride in their work yesterday.

PFAyr
Agree on Hinkel.Without his assists we would well and truly toothless.
Think all Celtic fans are frustrated so everyone has players they blame when it's not going well.
I have never liked seeing Caldwell + McManus in a Celtic jersey and i think on many occassions i have blamed them when others where equally culpable.

EN

couldn`t get that Basle game on PP ...is it tonight ?

motivation?

how much do these guys get paid? who are they playing for?

too many of the duds who have been about the club for too long need to be shipped out. I would accept offers for any of them.

UC

spikey
no i think you had it right the first time

spikeysauldman.
Caldwells heid is big enough without making it bigger,we would never get rid of him.Slan

Veno's Fact Syrup - #14

if we look at who is actually marking falkirks 3rd goalscorer we know who is to blame., whole team was very poor but the centre halfs are a joke.

only reason im still backing mowbray is at least he knows our team is pish.i reckon if we dont spend in january and he has to live with picking from that squad for rest of season he'll walk. clear to see how frustrated he is with the players he has. hope he spends better than he did on picking fortune. could probly have had beckford for same amount.

EN

16/1 treble for me'

Barnsley
Lecce
Nantes

PF Ayr

Its just kicked off, thought it was a later KO, not availale for a live bet.

EN

mungo boy.

It was Dalglish and Ormond.

viewfaethewindae

We should also bear in mind it's not just Tony Mowbray. There's a team of three working with the squad at Lennoxtown just now. I haven't been impressed with any of them, to be honest.

I think it's a little early to say Tony Mowbray isn't the answer, even if some of us are more than a little uneasy with the way things are going. I don't like bandwagons so won't join in (yet) with calls for his head. My post was simply there to rebut your notion of a player revolt. There's been no Monster Munch revolution at Bhoystown, or anything remotely like it, so attacking McManus and Mcdonald (I suppose scoring two yesterday was his way of saying Mowbray must go) isn't the answer.

What I will say is this - those three lost no time in demoting Lennon, bringing in new players who haven't met their expectations, and criticising the players under their management. That's all very well, but if you don't deliver, all of that brusque behaviour gets turned back on you.

The problem is, some players (Mcgeady, Brown, N'Guemo) can play quite a number of bad games and still get a place, whilst others (McCourt, Mcdonald) put a toe out of line and they're out. It's inconsistent and will lead to players harbouring a sense of injustice about the way they're getting treated.

Kojo
Disagree - from the abysmal performance of the 1st half it looked like TM motivated his team to turn it up several notches in the 2nd half.

If we had held the 3-2 lead, we would be complimenting the team's attitude and spirit, especially after the demands of Thursday night. Similarly, had the 4th goal not been disallowed, comments on here tonight would be less emotional.

However, we cannot get away from the fact that we were dross. TM knows that too, but let's give him time to get the players in the he thinks will fix the problem. Minimum requirement is Mjallby type central defender and a lethal penalty box striker - Samaras & Fortune do all their best work outside the box, so we need a poacher.

EN
i took Lecce instead

good luck

btw

goals in the 2 live games tonight will get me another goals galore coupon up

Well that is our name dragged through the mud on the BBC.

Thanks for nothing to the muppets who couldn't shut their traps for ONE SINGLE MINUTE.

You now stand alongside the huns in my view of things to be abhorred.

You are a disgrace.

Fed up.

Curly

Mungo boy,

it was Willie Ormond who dropped King Kenny to prevent him beating George Young's Scotland consecutive appearances record.

HAIL! HAIL!
Token

PF Ayr,

Good luck tonight. Hope it comes in for you.
Also meant to say that if I'd known you were round in the vaults I might have nicked round for a quick pint of the black stuff to say hi....esp as Mrs TTT went to bed around 10pm!

HAIL! HAIL!
Token

Chris Sutton is a legend!

Agree with you that we need a midfield player who can demand the ball and use it wisely, However that doesnt pardon Gary Caldwells arrogance to think that he can find a pass from 40 yards as more than often he gives the ball away and our midfield find themselves running side ways!
On the Hinkel point I again can not believe this guy is getting grief tonite!!...and believe it.. or not Im a Mark Wilson fan! and think he should be given a deecnt run in the team (fitness proven) but not at the expense of Hinkel?

PF AYR
Even when Paddy is playing well, he dosen't look interested. Dosen't mean to say that he is.

EN,

Cheers. Missed the Basel match so stuck Liverpool in with your other two choices for a treble.

have we not seen Celtic choke against bottom-of-the-table teams before even on their own turf and that was before TM was anywhere near the place?

AULDBHOY,

There are many times during the course of this season that Caldwell tries his put it on a tanner 50yd raking pass that gets nowhere near it's intended target but there are many other times when he has no option but to hit it long. In those instances I'd prefer to see him do that rather than try and dribble the ball out.

Unfortunately too many of our midfield and front players can't control a ball instantly so don't want to receive it in tight areas of the pitch. That's one thing we miss with Naka. For me, he was always ready to take a pass regardless of how tightly he was being marked because he had confidence in his own ability to be able to control the ball and retain possession.

Auldbhoy

Relax man,every Celtic player gets grief it's Herr Hinkel's turn this time.

up_over_goal
You make a good point, most managers have their favs.
Still say BTM must shape the squad to his requirements and if some don't like it, ta ta.

curly
I agree - everyone of us on the terracing observed the minute's silence impeccably.

When we go abroad, we engage with the locals e.g. the oil spillage at Vigo, we had a whip round on the plane and joined the locals in the march to highlight their plight. In Lisbon, the banner in remembrance of the Benfica player who died suddenly and so on. When we are asked to stay quiet to commemorate tens of thousands who died in all wars some just cannot behave.

I fully understand the atrocities of the British Army in Ireland, but Remembrance Day is for everyone who laid down their lives.

The new management team absolutley need time to build their own team and stamp their own mark on the club.

At this moment in time we are looking at INDICATORS from the CURRENT team in terms of where he want to take us. Who has he brought in , what shape is the team , what tactical changes has he made and what minset is the team in.

Who has he brought in - I think Fox and Fortune are Celtic class (Fortune will assist more than score but his strength was there to see before injury). N'guemo has shown signs but the core competency of a midfielder is consistency and he has not shown this yet.

What shape is the team - We have NO shape at all. McGeady runs all over the place (fragmenting our shape). Samaras runs up the wing and crosses the ball into who - the tallest striker we have, the best headerer of the ball we have - erm himself!!. Midfielders not shooting and getting into the box enough - we should swarm all over every team in Scotland.

Tactical changes - I like his decision making and his ability to react quickly. Some have worked this season and some not - in general i like his responsiveness.

Team Mindset - This is crucial for any team in any sport - We appear to lack proffessionalism (&spelling ability?) , fight, team spirit and knowledge of the role on the pitch. I blame comments made to the press about replaciing players and more importantly not complimenting their performance. McD score two match saving goals and is told its expected of him - it is yes, but ffs recognise his drive and will to win.

I want a winning mentality at celtic and the INDICATORS are not good - January sales matter not a tot IF the Management team is not respected and the shape of the team is not the white & green machine.

Bloke

The team you picked wouldn't have conceded three goals, and got into that fankle yesterday.

What successful European side plays with two wingers? Somebody mentioned today TM underestimated Falkirk, and I agree two wingers is arrogant, and naive at the same time.

I've long said McGeady is wasted on either wing, I'd be happy if he played in the hole and lost the constant double teamed marking, that nullifies him to the point of tedium, in the SPL.

McCourt got a game because he scored there in the CIS, and subsequently because he was so poor, it'll be a while before we see him again. TM should have known about being dragged down to Falkirk's level in the public park type situ, the pitch is too narrow for silky flowing football, ( the kind we are told we'll get ) we should have stuffed the midfield, tired them out, then hit them on the break, like a Mourinho would have done;_}

HH

curly,

I'm starting to wonder if the BBC put the microphone amongst these guys because we could hear them in the ground but I don't recall it being as loud and vocal as that!

PF Ayr/Chris sutton is a legend/Twists n turns.

Good luck, Kuyt will score the first, captain for the night.

EN

curly...

Well that is our name dragged through the mud on the BBC.

And why is that a problem? Let's face it, we've never been particularly well regarded in the press, why is it important now to have the media's approval?

Thanks for nothing to the muppets who couldn't shut their traps for ONE SINGLE MINUTE.

Perish the thought that people would exercise their right to freedom of expression and thought. Wasn't that what the our families, friends and others fought to preserve in the two "great" wars? What was the point of fighting for it if we seek to remove it?

You now stand alongside the huns in my view of things to be abhorred.

It's one and the same isn't it, a peaceful protest against something versus smashing your surroundings to hell when you don't get everything your own way.

Can't you see the contradiction here? Is it really more important for the shysters at the BBC to say nice things about us or that people have the right to exercise their hard won freedoms?

We live in a society that's increasingly autocratic and dictatorial. More often then not people face trial by television, hung drawn and quartered by low brow hacks who stand against everything Celtic stood for.

What is the point of being egalitarian if you then hold peoples actions against them? They committed no crime, didn't disrupt the silence and didn't enter the ground till after the silence.

Really, what IS the problem with that? And what is your problem with turning against Celtic fans to side with self same people that have described our players as Thugs and Thieves and various other objectionable terms in the recent past?

You are a disgrace.

The moral majority has spoken. Can I have permission to type please massa? And while I'm at it, here, have my seat on the bus.

Fed up.

Only about one tenth as fed up as I am of hearing my fellow Celtic fans castigate others.

And for the record, I was in favour of the silence. And observed it as my way of paying respect to people who fought so that we might enjoy these freedoms. I doubt however that the reason for the silence was as innocent as my reasons for observing it.

My Grandfather would be spinning in his grave - He actually fought for, and was a prisoner of war for nothing judging by the comments over the last day.

/p

Good luck to all fellow couponeers.

Genuine query,

How did we do regarding the Saturday coupon? I haven't checked back. Where we close? I know we didn't win because my balance hasn't shot up by around £300.

Curly,

forgetting for the moment those half wits who have now disgraced the hoops, how did the Big Day go?

Hope you and V are well and still in married bliss :-)

HAIL! HAIL!
Token

viewfaethewindae

I wouldnt allow him near a Celtic jersey!!... never mind letting him near my George Connolly DVD!!..What would he do to both if we let him watch the Magical George in action!! The thought is to much! ....You cant copy Class...GARY!!

All this nonsense about teams can't play with two wingers - Man U won a treble with Beckham and Giggs. Our problem is our two wingers are complimented with two centre forwards also playing on the wings. It's bloody madness. People on here have been slating McDonald for weeks but he is the only striker who knows where the net is. He just can't participate in the passing around of the ball before it enters the penalty box.

CSIAL

Beaten by a 3-3 draw

By S.I.D on November 9, 2009 11:09 AM
The fact that the media had microphones and cameras in various positions at falkirk yesterday, prove to me that they had only one objective, to sully the name of Celtic FC.Why were these good people of the press not inside observing the minutes silence. How many other grounds did this happen at?. Will they turn their cameras, microphones etc at the thousnds of huns who belt out the illegal famine song in the coming months? No, didn't think so, they might end up getting clattered by a seat.

CSIAL,

once again we hit the bar.

7 out of 8 up, with Rochdale away at Luton doing us.

Don't know what happened to them as they were 3-0 down at HT, but came back to draw 3-3.

We'll get one in the back of the net soon mate, of that I am sure!

HAIL! HAIL!
Token

bournesouprecipe
agree with most of your points but we did play silky soccer during the 4-0 CIS game in the Westfield Stadium, albeit we could have lost a few goals that night too.

TM's problem is that too many who played under WGS do not fit into his team plan, so they have to go. However, he has to give everyone a fair chance to show what they can do, or unable to do before he can offload anyone. The problem is aggravated by the number of young players with 'long term potential' that were signed by WGS.

As there is no reserve league, many young players may not develop, so they may go too. It's a big ask to offload all those who cannot contribute long term and replace them with instant 1st team players.

Have you heard the press hun apologist on radio scotland (yes, bbc) only "12, maybe less" causing havoc inside the stadium last week apparently!

Bobby Evans -

Thanks for the support, don't expect too much however!

Prestonpans Bhoys -

Maybe so, but it has been discussed on here, and on all the other Celtic sites, for the last couple of weeks, so everyone knew that they would be after us.

To my mind, these idiots knew exactly what they were doing. Perhaps they are deliberately trying to provoke a response, maybe looking for someone on the board (DD or JR) to fall on their sword? Pity they had to drag down the Celtic name when trying to do it.

When you think what the Celtic support has done over the years, as Bobby Evans mentioned, and also during the ongoing efforts to get Kano home, the good things are always forgotten when the bad things come out.

Yurcl

Reporting Scotland showed the YouTube recording that was posted here last night which showed the silence was respected inside the ground.

They talked over the clip and didnt mention that those singing were outside.

The Token Tim -

It was a cracking day, think everyone enjoyed themselves, and best yet, we raised around £550 (didn't want pressies, just charitable donations) which will be split between Breast Cancer Research and RNLI.

p*ddy -

I am all for freedom of speech, but one minute of silence - is that really too much to ask for?

Cyrul

Hail hail Curly. I bumped into you at the golf day last july, many happy returns for getting hitched, baltic temperatures at the reception up north no doubt, where is DBBIA with the weather forecast when you need him?
But don't be glum chum, Celtic are being set up with all this jingoism. I just caught the clip of the one minute's silence. First of all the local PA guy goes on for about a minute himself! Was he preparing us for a minute's silence or was he advertising furniture at Tillicoutrie? Then all the players linking arms, you would think it was a penalty shoot out. Any time there is a minute's silence, players stand at their positions ready to start playing.

They are fabricating history. But some of us say we know another history.

We are selectively remembering those who suffered because of the wars. Why aren't those who stood up and spoke out against the First world war being remembered? I am thinking of Glasgow's John McLean and all the others who actually pointed out that the war was leading to unnecessary death. He was imprisoned for saying so, up in Peterhead, and never recovered his health after his ordeal. I wonder if he would have been shouting at so much hypocrisy on display yesterday.

AULDBHOY
I thought that would get a reaction!
George Connelly, simply the most talented Celt, that Bhoy could grace any world 11, agree?

bournesouprecipeAuthor Profile Page on November 9, 2009 7:19 PM

Couldn't have put it better myself.

You have to win the battle first, before you can turn on fancy stuff.

'Twas I who mentioned the arrogance of two wingers and another two strikers(?) in a game at Falkirk.

The Huns are getting reasonable results,with a poor team because they always have a strong midfield.

chris sutton is a legend

Yea find your comments about his dribbling skills to freightening!....So will agree...Gary keep Raking!!... As I can only hope Middlesborough fans are discussing these merits come early Febuary?
Hail!Hail!

I was talking to a bloke last week who told me he hadn`t posted for a while.....
`Why not?` I asked him....
`Cos I was on strike` he replied.
It was then i recognised him.... he was my postman.

Traynor's article's not bad.
Pity he didn't mention the occasion when the Rangers' away crowd was restricted to those and such as those, all their high heid yins.
They disgraced themselves as well.
Wasn't their supposed to be some sort of enquiry about that?

P*ddy:

I seriously wouldn't worry yourself my friend.
The 'outraged' recognise no other opinion.
Right is theirs and, alongside that, apparently goes the right to insult others with impunity on this blog.

The ironic similarity to another group of peepil who feel they have a similar right may be lost on them; it isn't on me...

curly
They knew exactly what they were doing - there was no singing until the ref blew for the minute's silence.

While I could hear it, I was surprised just how load it came across on BBC News tonight - no doubt in my mind that the media was waiting to pounce, so there may well have been strategically placed microphones, as Prestonpans suggests. We all knew they would be waiting to pounce if only one person stepped out of line.

To see ourselves as others see us....Ewan Murray ( Hearts supporter) writing for The Guardian

Celtic could at least take some solace ..that any protest from their supporters amid a pre-match minute`s silence..failed to materialise,inside the ground at least.Hundreds of them entered the ground late and chanting was audible from outside the stadium;neither instance, though, is particularly uncommon.

p*ddy 7.24

Tend to agree that if our only reason for observing the minute`s silence was so as not to invite bad press then it was a futile reason.
Also feel that those who broke it might have been quite brave souls willing to incur the wrath of many because of their beliefs. Or they could have been drunken attention seekers (Why, therefore, stage their `protest` outside the ground? Inside would have had a far greater impact.).
I have never been a fan of Poppy Day as I feel it glorifies war rather than remembering and highlighting the horrors of it. Why , for instance, should it be worn with Pride? Why not with sadness?
Whatever people`s views are on this, of one thing I am certain. Remembering the Fallen should either be a private affair or with like-minded souls at an appropriate venue. Football arenas are not full of like-minded souls so not an appropriate venue.

curly...

I am all for freedom of speech, but one minute of silence - is that really too much to ask for?

So...You are all for free speech, except during the times you deem free speech unacceptable?

I'm sorry, but either you believe in it or you don't.

If these people feel they had a legitimate complaint I am 100% behind them in their exercising the their right to protest.

And I don't care what the BBC think. I know what the BBC and the press stand for - They are pollution.

I appreciate the fact that none of us, regardless of our views on the media want to hear our name traduced. I don't like that any more than you do, but the principle of freedom of speech and expression is far to important, especially in these times for me to find anything other than support for people, who in the face of mass disapproval stood up for something they believed in. We are all on the same side. We are all Celtic fans. And when we turn on people who are doing nothing wrong to simply cury favour with the BBC, I think that's wrong.

The press are past masters at manufacturing consent. Let's not help them.

The names these people are being called on here are similar to the names they are being called on Follow Follow.

I would much rather the club (Celtic) came out in favour of people being able to exercise their freedoms than Peter Lawwell shaking his head at them.

/p

Guys,

Thanks for the update on the coupon. Surely we'll smash one home sooner rather than later. Enough of this side foot nonsense. Put your foot through the ball.

Anyway, that's what I'm off to try and do now. Probably stick one out in the car park now but hey-ho...

Any chance we can move on now ??????

HAIL! HAIL!
Token

The passion and effort shown by the young players of falkirk yesterday far outweighed that of the overpaid, under-acheiving Celts.What chance some of our reserves etc doing likewise. Caldwell-McManus...buy one,get one free offer should be advertised during the festive season to attract possible buyers. We could do similar with others, any ideas?

there is a subtle but significant difference between the "idiots" who could not keep quiet for 60 seconds yesterday and the bigots who belt out the famine song and the billy boys

the idiots yesterday, were guilty in my eyes of a lack of respect for their club and showed no basic human decency for those who have lost relatives...that makes them idiots as far as i am concerned

the bigots who belt out the famine song and the billy boys are breaking the law...that makes them criminals

the bbc are perfectly entitled to report on those idiots who disrespected the minutes silence yesterday...it was a legitimate news story and should have been reported

the question is , why do they continually ignore the breaking of the law by thousands of Rangers supporters.....that is equally a legitimate news story and should be reported

a further news story that the bbc should be reporting is why the SFA have done nothing about their own match delegates report of racist singing at the last game at Parkehead and also at other SPL matches

A further news story that the bbc should be reporting on is the continued failure to answer Celtic's letters on what constitutes an offence to be reviewed by the video review panel

So whilst we can't complain about the BBC reporting on yesterdays non silence by a few idiots, we can legitimately wonder why they are showing no appetite to report or investigate the news stories mentioned above.

What i can tell you for definite is that they are trying everything to get hold of the former Rangers chairman. He has gone to ground and cannot be contacted by them at all. They believe a major story regarding the future of MIH and Rangers is in the offing and they are more than keen to throw a few questions at him

Veno's Fact Syrup - #15

s.i.d
Samaras and a chunky Kit kat would be a good deal for potential buyers.

viewfaethewindae

AGREE!!....He would not disappoint!

Hail!Hail!

JungleJim...

An excellent and very balanced post.

West Wales Celt...

Cheers! :-)

/p

S.I.D, what about take one, get one free?

rimtimtim
good point about those who stood up and spoke out against any war. Originally the poppy was associated with Earl Haig, who probably caused more British deaths by sending troops to certain death. For many years I stopped wearing the red poppy because of him - the white poppy was a good option for pacifists. I'd like to see that again.

However, the red poppy is now accepted as being the symbol to commemorate everyone who sacrificed their lives during all wars so we should respect that until a suitable alternative is available.

As someone who was actually at the game yesterdaY i know there were people singing outside, I myself saw a group of 15-20 people singing.

There were hundreds of CELTIC fans kept outside for the first 15 minutes of the game by shambolic organisation on Falkirks part - not a mention of that though.

Police with riot dogs outside the celtic end at turnstile 11-12??? Why?? Again no mention of that.

How many games are there where fans outside the ground sing during silences? Do we hear the same consternation in the press?? No, no we don't.

I wasn't singing nor were the majority, vast majority that is of people stuck outside for THE FIRST 15 MINUTES OF THE GAME!!!

Two of those fans being Frankie Boyle and Kevin Bridges.

Had no Celtic fans turned up yesterday the press would still have had the same reports today, especially in the DR. IMO some of them were probably written before the match even happened!!

DD

Is it possible that a Liverpool game can be covered by TV without mention of the word 'special'? ESPN there promising us we are in for a 'special night'. Not mentioned 'the special atmosphere' yet..

barcabhoy
BBC interviewing Murray is one that I wouldn't miss. Rangers may be £30M in debt but MIH is £770M in debt. The house of cards is ready to fall!

Can we possibly give the flower debate a rest now?

The repitition is tiresome, no one is changing their position and we all know that we will have to go through it all again next year anyway.

Bobby Evans

If MIH fails i wouldn't be surprised if Murray never set foot in Scotland again, far less presents himself for interview

One last point from me on the poppy / minute silence debate - if we ever join the EPL, we will be crucified by every media outlet if the minute's silence is not observed.

My dear,dear,dear,dear,dear,dear,dear,dear,dear,dear,friend.. Notthebus.

You are unarguably correct,pal..

Self- Motivation comes from Within.

Howvevahhhh..

I am not discussing .. Self-Motivation.

I am strictly referring to the Fact that We need a Man who can

Motivate the WHOLE Celtic Team... as a UNIT.

Which is a horse of a different Color.

Last year I blamed the Players.. and rightly so.. they absolutely blew the last Three League Games.

Mr. Strachan.. who.. by the way... as a matter of Interest..en Passant..

Did manage, to Motivate the Celtic Team, as a UNIT..on OCCASION.

I shall not give you chapter and verse,as to what those particular occasions were, as I know very well you could Identify those Occasions , rather easily.

Again.. Mr. Strachan, was no Jock Stein at the Motivational High Jinks, but he was soitenly,much,much, superior to Mr. Mowbray.

Although, I was, and still remain, a Firm and Enthusiastic Fan of Mr. Strachan..for he gave me lots and lots of joy,and, on many occasions during his most successful run, as the Celtic Manager.

Be aware, as you read of my unabashed enthusiasm regarding the Motivational Prowess of Mr. Strachan..that.. that He used , essentially, most of the same Celtic Players who are presently playing so indifferently under Mr . Mowbray.

No, I am afraid that my respect for Mr. Mowbray as a Celtic Manager is at a very low point, at this.. well.. Point!

Go ahead, Mr. Mowbray , convince my that I have misjudged you..

I am most open to Persuasion,in that respect.

And..

Start.. Promptly,in your Persuasive Attempt..

NEXT SUNDAY, at DUNDEE.

I cannot wait to be. .. UNCONVINCED!

Kojo.
yer pal..who likes ye a loater

Bobby Evans Superstar

Maybe TM should play his fringe side, before his first choice ;_)

thomthethim

That's a high compliment when coming from yourself.

HH

S.I.D

How about a big Sign outside the Celtic Superstore.....

FREE WITH ANY PURCHASE!!

barcabhoy
He'll probably leave it to his son to handle the flak

400

Dedicated to the BBC

HH

Gordon_j,

Agree time to move on.

How about...... playing two wingers is leaving us too susceptible to opposition counter attacks, especially given the fragility of our CB’s?

Didnt we used to complain that the football was boring and not worth watching with no competition outside Glasgow

Maybe we should be grateful in a perverse way that we are in a fight for the title with a few clubs now ..................

Bobby Evans Superstar

did liverpool or man unt get slated on radio clyde or bbc scotland for not having the poppy on the jersey.

Sadly hunland is a Bigoted wee country always looking for any excuse to get at celtic.

Yes no celtic fan should abuse the minutes silence but with the poppy we could never win regardless what we did. It's a nice stick to beat us with.

Hail Hail

How about a midfield four of Loovens, Brown, McManus and Caldwell.
It could be known as Big Mad Mincey Heid...
jaiket....

Minutes applause only way.

If we play two wingers in front of the two full backs we have we sure cannot have Sammi and MAH going wide too

Maybe back to a 3 man central defence consisting of O Dea, Loovens and New signing with hinkel and fox wide.

Nguemo , Brown and Crosas midfield

with Skippy and Sammi up front

Although a new striker with goals and brawn would be a welcome addition up front

Apparently the Hunz are planning something of a coup by allowing all serving members of the Armed Forces free admission to the next SPL game at Ipox. The sting is, however, that they will be charged £20 to get oot..........£50 if they want to leave before the end!!

:-))

Eustace
I didn't know they hadn't worn the poppy so I guess that proves your point.

jinkysboy,

Another problem with Sunday was that big Sammi suddenly thought he was a winger too. MAF does the same and begs the question... who are they crossing the ball over to in the box?

1-0 to Liverpool!!

Prestonpans

Sammi always thinks he is a winger and it looks like MAF has the same strategy. I kept asking the questions who the F do you thinks in the box for the cross balls big man.....

Answer was McGeady of course...

I am sorry for dragging up the poppygate issue one final time. The whole sorry episode seems to have created an extremely divisive argument amongst those who follow the hoops. So the incident was on reporting Scotland - did we expect less. Who really cares what the BBC reports? We all know that they were just itching to try and cast the Celts in the same rotten mould as Rangers. Anyone who knows anything about both set of support knows that there is no comparison. Why would any broadcaster have a microphone outside the ground - why would they unless it was in the hope that a small minority of the Celts there would chose to exercise their right of freedom of association and above all freedom of speech. I would hazard a guess and say that out with the realm of the pro establishment Scottish media and perhaps the Daily Nazi (Daily Mail) and the legions of outraged Nazi saluting Rangers followers no one really cares that a few individuals sang a song and disturbed an otherwise impeccably observed silence. The moral indignation will be soon forgotten only to be resurrected again next year with the same arguments and widen the division within the Celtic family.

The song was an ill considered action by a very few and i would make the bold assumption that most Celtic fans regardless of their political stance would have adhered to the silence. However to read some of the posts from 'alleged' Celtic fans one would believe that these bhoys were guilty of the most heinous of crimes rather than singing a song outside a venue where a minutes silence was being held! I have read individuals calling them scum and asking for them to be banned from Celtic Park. I have read posts ridiculing bhoys from Ireland for simply trying to state there are 2 sides to this debate- and i am not talking about infantile pro IRA rants but rather considered articulate posts which have drawn the ire of many for having the temerity to simply question why Celtic FC are participating in the poppy appeal and i include the Association of Irish Celtic supporters club in this group - hardly a radical Pro IRA organisation are they?

Finally I have a question for those who advocate such draconian actions as banning those who sang outside the ground from Celtic Park "who made you Ghod almighty and overall executor of the will and soul of the massed ranks of Celtic supporters - The vocal moral minority indeed - i think not.

Was reading newsnow and couldn't help myself by clicking on to the Daily Ranger link with the news that Sky had muted the mics. Then did an even more foolish thing by clicking on to the comments. Now I have never visited FF but good Lord that is what I would imagine it to be. There was even some clown having a go and saying that if we wanted to live in the UK we should among other things 'acknowledge the union' I did check to see if his name was N Griffin, but seriously you just couldn't make it up with these folk.The indignation, and outrage is laughable. I do feel a bit dirty though from reading it, but it did make me chuckle.

Oglach

very well said sir

Gil Heron

When that's happened to me, I go for a hot shower, a rub down, have a cup of tea, then I
"Click on my Spanner" next to my moniker, to hear the voice of a real man, singing a sad love
song. ( I think that's what it's about )

HH

Oglach: well said

Gil Heron: you should have a scroll back at some of the stuff on here...

Honest - my last comment on the minute's silence. Sky blocking out all audio during that period is the norm for any major broadcaster - to ensure that the moment is not interrupted by anyone - intentionally or otherwise. One wonders why BBC deviated from the norm.

Doesn't condone those who did not observe it, but it reinforces the argument that they were waiting to pounce.

very interesting program on C4 right now about indian and Irish who fought for GB in the wars and how they were treated

I think that the silence should be observed, although I don't think it should be compulsory.

Assuming that the singing otside the ground was a 'protest', I think it was disrespectful - my great grandfather fought in the first war, but even if he hadn't I think that would have been good to show some respect for the 'Lions led by donkeys'. Perhaps this is what some people don't realise, the first war (which is why we commemorate it on 11/11) especially was a disaster for the common man, British, German, French, Italian, Russian, Irish, the list goes on. If nothing else, remember that. To make it compulsory, no. But respect, yes. And there will always be a small minority of Celtic fans who will rail against anything they see as an incarnation of British Imperialism. Let it go, move on, let others fan fight the battles of 1690.

Having said that, here's a stupid thought. The singing came from outside the ground, not inside. To me, this opens two possibilities:

(a) All the diehards had decided to travel to Falkirk and remain outside the ground to make a protest. Thus we have like-minded people magically gathering together to make a protest, safely away from any waiting television cameras which could actually publicise the protest.
(b) As they were outside the ground, and probably pretty frustrated, they may not have actually been aware that the silence was taking place inside the ground at exactly that time. Who would have heard this whistle, who would have heard the silence?? If you are in a group of noisy and frustrated fans, can you hear silence coming from inside a stadium? I have been stuck outside stadia in the past, and the mood has not been pretty, especially not knowing what is going on inside.

In reality, I suspect that there was a protest, so let's go with option (a). But it's a strange way to make a point.

McGeady splits fans right down the middle regarding his value to the team. Half the fans love his skill and ability to beat players while the other half think he doesn't have an end product. Having watched him over the last few years, and being a coach myself, I am extremely frustrated at his lack of improvement. This comes down to one massive flaw in his game ie he doesn't know how to kick the ball properly. This might sound ridiculous because he is a professional footballer but I have watched him and he doesn't follow through when he kicks the ball. Anyone who plays golf will have been told to hit through the ball and not at it. This is exactly the flaw mcgeady has - he kicks at the ball and not through it. He regularly gets himself into brilliant positions to shoot or cross the ball and consistently fails to deliver because of his inability to kick through the ball properly. If he could improve on this one aspect of his game we would have a £25m player. I think we could do worse than employ the services of a specialist kicking coach eg Dave Alred even on a consultancy basis for a few sessions. I know the Celtic coaches probably work on shooting and crossing in training but I don't think they have analysed in detail McGeady's kicking style. Practice doesn't make perfect if you are not practising the right way.

Apricale on November 9, 2009 8:33 PM

I was outside and saw alot of fans frustrated at the lack of organisation from Falkirk however I saw no organised protest and any singing was from a samll number of fans and happens at EVERY game home and away.

The silence was inside the stadium so those outside have the right to sing anything they please within reason of course.

DD

Screen

he certainly didnt put his foot through the ball at the rebound yesterday

Brum have levelled against Liverpool 1-1 ChoChu Benitez

Screen1973 aka Dave Alred.

screen1973:

Agree on the finishing, although there is youtube evidence of a few that got struck well.

Also think that he lacks faith in his team-mates (and who can blame him at times) and tries to do too much by himself.

Remains our most talented player by some distance.

And, anyway, what's all this got to do with wee red flowers?
;-)

I know a fair bit about sound and mixing desks and amplifiers and all the rest.The UTube video from inside the ground was not faked.You could not hear the protesters.Indeed someone coughs early on and that is it.I watched on Sky.Now either the protesters had a sound system with them,or bullhorns,given the nature of sound reproduction 20/30 people cold NOT sing at that volume heard on the BBC.It is very obvious to me that it was a set-up and they fell for it.They were miked and edited.Straightforward.This is not an apology for them in any way,their stupidity is unassailable,but the bigots(not the singers)in the BBC and the rest of Scotland got their little moment of joy.By the way,I've had the PCC reply to me regarding Fraser Cardow's rant.We should all be complaining to OFCOM.So there.The Press Complaints Commission has wriggled out of it.

Eustace P Merryweather on November 9, 2009 8:09 PM

"Yes no celtic fan should abuse the minutes silence but with the poppy we could never win regardless what we did. It's a nice stick to beat us with."

True.
We were on a hiding to nothing yesterday and in reflection, we dealt with it as well as it could be expected.

Screen - spot on! I've been harping on about the very same fundamental problem with Mcgeady's shooting.

He can practice day and night with that technique and get little return versus changing his technique and delivering more goals, better crosses and more decisive pasing.

I'm amazed this has not been picked up by coaches at that level.

screen, I wish they would work on passing during the training sessions

Night all

AS per my wee chat with PF Ayr today ( you were posting rather quickly, too quickly to have made it back to the office after your , ahem, 'hard shift' up our way today, you're busted for the skiving big yin!) yesterday was , I realised afterwards, the culmination of a creeping realisation that I'm officially in the 'not sure about Tony Mowbray' camp.

He looks like he's as bewildered as the rest of us about what to do to change things.

The players look like they're all hiding.

We look, as big John Hartson said in the week, soft and incapable of scaring anyone.

Bad as they are, the Huns look more of a team than we do at the moment.

I'm very worried too about the PUBLIC criticism of the players.

I'm not saying that they don't deserve a kick up the posterior, but letting everyone and his dog know he doesn't have faith in them isn't exactly going to inspire them to perform for him, is it? This type of thing is best kept private.

Good managers know this.

Gordon Strachan, even when provoked by a petulant Alan Thomson, never resorted to openly condemning him.

Martin O'Neill didn't come out in public about his apparent lack of belief in the likes of Eyal Berkovic.

Who, then, does big Tone think he's convincing with his 'They're all a bunch of donkeys I never signed in the first place' line?

Kojo's right.

We should have had Craig Levein. He couldn't have done any worse, would have been a lot cheaper and , perhaps crucially, wouldn't have been available when the Forces inevitably come a calling after the January sales force uncle Walter to spend more time with his rosebushes.

I'm now a mineclapper.

donegaldanny

Sorry to ask this as it's going over things again. If you were outside with many others, do you think the singing was just 'queue-singing', or was it timed with the minute's silence? Apologies if I am being naive here.

raymac-this is my biggest anger and disappointment about the whole issue. It was set up for them and they fell for it. Ignorance, stupidity or sheer bloody-mindedness. In the week where everything was about Bucharest, we, sorry they, gave the laptop loyal exactly what they were looking for. Yes I have posted before about being angered by the lack of common decency shown, but I am more annoyed and disappointed that these guys couldn't show the media up as the apologists they are, but instead gave them a 'genuine' story.

Roy Cropper dosen't have a poppy on in Corrie, do you think he was outside the ground on Sunday?

Stunning strike from Jerome in first-half stoppage time, 2-1 Brum