Tynecastle has been a source of intolerant abuse for decades. Visitors, including the Celtic support, have endured the most offensive behaviour imaginable. This is ongoing and culminated in our manager being assaulted in his technical area recently.
It is the easiest thing in the world to throw abuse at others while being blind to your own fans’ behaviour. It is merely adequate to criticise your own while pointing out the errors of others, for example – Celtic fans who vandalise are knuckle-dragging idiots – it’s that easy.
We await your apology public to Anthony Stokes for the sectarian abuse he received at your stadium.
My hunch is that you’ll body-swerve this one, that you don’t know sectarian abuse from public comments the Scottish authorities have made illegal in order to “equalise” the offenders, and this intervention will encourage the galleries of intolerance at Tynecastle.
Signing event in Stirling
Joe Miller will be at Waterstones in Stirling tomorrow (Thurs) from 5pm to sign copies of Caesar and the Assassin, Billy McNeill and Davie Hay’s account of managing Celtic from 1978 to 1991, told in their own words to Alex Gordon.
Joe is a great character who worked under McNeill, Hay and Alex Ferguson, and now heads the Celtic Former Players Association. If you’re in the Stirling area, get along and bring your camera.
The 2015 CQN Annual is through design and ready to ship next week. You can pre-order yours now.
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Uefa know the history
http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/association=sco/news/newsid=2190411.html
Edinburgh Anti-Glasgow?
Edinburgh Anti-Irish?
Edinburgh Anti-Celtic?
Edinburgh Anti-Catholic?
Edinburgh Anti-Roman Protestants?
Edinburgh Anti-Roman Agnostics?
Edinburgh Anti-Happy People?
Edinburgh Hurting?
Edinburgh Juries?
Edinburgh Burning?
Edinburgh green with envy?
Stamp out whataboutery!
hendrix67
Now that is a podium winning post.
Till later all
Tap 10 ?
Argue with her all you want. I don’t think she’s for moving :)
Been to Tynecastle on various occasions and every time witnessed vandalism ( seats being broken and hoisted like trophies ).
I welcome Anne Budges statement ( she does mention both sets of supporters ). She is looking after her affairs.
Maybe our custodians, should be less meely mouthed and look after ours….
It’s not her fault regarding incidents that have happened in our ground.
We would be delighted with a statement like that from Peter Lawell.
Paul67
Expected better from you.
Lunch over, back to work.
Geordie.
Like it!.
Away boycott then?
ok I need I cough syrup
Was doing a Charlie Nick there ………just sitting here thinking….when my thoughts went back to Sunday May 2, 1999 and a near riot at CP coupled with the ref being hit on the head with a coin.
The catalyst for this was as a result of a former Inverclyde altar boy sleekitly tripping big Stephane and then running away…..the big mhan chased after him but never touched him.
Stephane already on a booking was yellow carded again after words with dallas….this caused him to lose the plot as the ground erupted….meanwhile wee sleekit face was also booked even though it was his action that caused the mayhem.
I believe what precipitates his hatred of the bhoys is that we had chances to sign him but knocked them back…..he just wisnae good enough no matter how many caps he got.
His recent outburst in after the Stranraer game should remind us what a nasty piece of work he really is.
I would have thought there were more damaged seats when Sevco played them.
A lot of anger after a frustrating defeat whereas we had an easy victory.
Very strange that this doesn’t get mentioned since there’s usually a big drive to point out that one side’s as bad as the other.
Plus, there was a bigger crowd at that match as well.
Paul 67, I think you have misread Ann Budge’s statement and intention and produced a whataboutery statement. I posted this after you closed the last thread:-
Ann Budge has crafted a pretty effective statement which, because it reproaches Hearts fans first of all, seems even-handed.
However, the majority of the statement focuses on our support and this will be the way the media will represent it. It is difficult to blame Ms. Budge for the predelictions of the media and she should be answerable only for her own words.
Whilst she mentions, in passing, that there were arrests for sectarian offences, her focus is firmly on vandalism, graffiti and coin throwing. These are behaviours which should not be defended in any support and we can only be responsible for our own. If this behaviour escalates or becomes commonplace then the vandals in every team’s support will raise the cost of football match attending for every supporter. They will also justify Police Scotland’s desire to charge higher costs to our club and they will justify it as a reason for the OBaF Act and for more harassment of fans by stewards and police.
For that reason, whataboutery is not a good enough response by Celtic.
For that reason, just paying up and not addressing the behaviour is not appropriate either. Some of the guys who did this are just saying “Pay The Bill, Celtic” and let us do it again at the next away ground. But it is you and me and other non-offending Celtic fans that will pay the price for their behaviour.
Sometimes, we have to look at our own behaviour honestly and squarely and say, “I don’t want that in my name.”
I will defend most of our singing to all who complain about it; there is nothing wrong at all with Republican songs or hymn singing.
But defending smashed seats, toilets or coin throwing because “they do it too”???
That is not good enough.
Maybe we should just sing hymns and see how that goes down although I do enjoy a bout of your just no voting … Maybe that’s what wound them up so much.
Celtic already pay for damage done by our supporters at other grounds. This agreement is in place at every club. Maybe that doesn’t apply in the scottish cup though.
Why would the Hearts support be offended by anything their cousins sing when it’s the same songs.
As a Tim abroad and an infrequent visitor to football in Scotland these days can someone explain to me what the police and the stewards are doing during these wanton acts of destruction as it seems to me if anything there are more of both than back in my heyday of the 80’s where it must be said Tynecastle was the biggest s**thole of them all and I have the scars to prove it:)))
Well said Paul 67…
I was just a wee baby poster at the time of the Motherwell seats ‘civil unrest’.
Got it tight from some old rocket – wish I’d noted who? – when I said that one vandalised seat was one too many.
I stand by that view. On principle cos I want to be proud of our club and its support. But also from the savvy perspective cos why we would ever want to offer them chance to tarnish our name.
I would prefer complete transparency on all damage at all grounds.
But The silence that surrounds the damage done to our own ground scunners me no end.
We should always sort ourselves out. But So too should others.
HH jamesgang
I may be mistaken but did Celtic not receive a reduced allocation for Tynecastle on Sunday due to previous disorder
As I said before selfishness is a prevalent trait in those whose indulge in such acts to the detriment of supporters who would have loved a ticket just to have gone and seen the game
Ps for those who profess to totally ignore the MSM your forensic analysis of what it publishes is admirable
Well said Paul, methinks mrs budge is being used to push an agenda. Why wait so long? I know 100 (exactly) is a big number, but even the cheap phones have calculators.
Weed out the trouble, absolutely! But to claim only one club has this element is plain wrong. The reporting of the trouble at Livingston, and the abuse John Bishop received was sinister. Remember the megabus fire reporting?
starry plough
They’re operating drones from 30,000 feet in the hope of catching teenage Bhoys singing republican songs.
We should count ourselves lucky that House only has armed officers in the ghetto that is Inverness. If he had his way completely police Scotland’s predators would probably have hellfire missiles on them inscribed with ‘regards from tulliallan rsc’
HH jamesgang
Does Anne Budge release a statement after every home game, or just the games that her dream team of coaches and youth playing stars are humiliated on and of the park,
I am not saying we are angels, but show us the proof of vandalism,
I was there, and was on of the last supporters to leave the stadium, and didn’t see any broken seats or vandalism,
I did see a multitude of youths in the stand to our right hand side, who all through the game were giving us abuse,
So is this another Dundee riots situation,
Don’t be throwing bricks in a glass house Anne,
As someone who stopped going to away games because of the nonsense I had to endure from drunk Celtic fans, I am sure the Hearts lady had truth in what she was saying. But far from the whole truth, of that I’m sure. I have no time for the morons who give our Club a bad name but I have even less for those who single us out.
jamesgang
Couldn’t agree more mate.
There is no difference in my mind, between ripping up seats at a football match and taking a key along the side of someone’s car in the street.
Vandalism is mindless and unacceptable.
setting free the bears for Res. 12 & Oscar Knox
15:00 on
3 December, 2014
A sign that a person is maturing as an individual and ready to stand on their own two feet is an acceptance that they are actually responsible for standing on their own two feet. No blaming, no scapegoating just taking charge of themselves.
Whatboutery is an avoidance of responsibility and an excuse not to correct the one thing that is in our power to correct which is ourselves.
As we mature as individuals, we mature as a society and are gifted a lifetime to do so.
A good article Paul. However, Ms. Budge is not the only on whom the spotlight is now shining.
The ball is now firmly in Celtic’s court, and we will see if the Club is genuinely interested in doing the right thing.
If there is, and there certainly is, a hooligan element in our support, then the club has an obligation to weed them out. However, the club has to clear and up front about what constitutes such behavior. Singing BOTOB (whether you think it should be sung or not, is a different question) is not the same as ripping out seats.
Ms. Budge is right to want to get rid of vandalism and sectarianism …. but we all know that the former is only a small part of the problem, and the latter is in some corners, being used a cover for less noble endeavours.
Ms. Budge mentions the ONE Hearts supporter who was arrested for sectarian abuse, while Anthony Stokes says “Maybe Ann budge should worry about her own fans,never had so many sectarian comments directed at me in a ground like tynecastle the other day” Clearly, it was not ONE Hearts supporter. Why were the rest not arrested?
Stokes’ statement is interesting.
I’m not an expert in Scottish Health and Safety or Human Rights law, but, I know the Canadian law, and most developed countries have similar laws that require an employer to provide a workplace that is safe and safe from harassment. Celtic’s employee has now publicly called into question whether he is being provided with same, and Celtic has an obligation to ensure that the problem – the real problem, and not the problems created by ill intended and unfit legislation – is truly addressed.
Stokes and Budge’s statements could have intended and unintended consequences.
Celtic, understandably, seem to prefer to do their work in the back rooms, and out of the public glare. This is not always well received by fans, who feel that the club should be doing more to protect their (the club and the fans’) interests.
The very public statements may now force Celtic to fully and publicly address the problem. This doesn’t mean condoning vandalism or sectarianism by Celtic fans… not at all. But, it does mean dealing with the targeting of Celtic fans over the last few years. In my mind, a strong and public response from Celtic is overdue, and, in light of the recent statements by Stokes and Budge, necessary.
jamesgang
Bout time he got that Ness Ghetto under control Dawg:))
Seriously though what the funk were the oils doing if 100 seat got smashed, holding hands and making daisy chains.
And who the funk goes tae the fitbaw tae smash up the seats..
Jeezo ah must be getting auld.
I think Ms Budge has opened a can of angry worms with this and I hope it gets to the root of the hooligan element in the game us included if that is the case, I’m not holding my breath though to see Hearts suddenly become peace loving hippies, no siree Bob…
Interesting link between Ann budge and Barry Hearn’s statements today.
Ann Budge was correct in what she said. She went after her own support first.
Barry Hearn was correct in what he said. We need to talk up the Scottish game and make it a spectacle again.
The issue is the Scottish Press.
The Press spin is immediately “Ann Budge criticises Celtic”
If the lead had been Ann budge seeks to clean up the game and make it more attractive then no real issue.
The press in Scotland is an utter disgrace. It starts with Criticise Celtic, sensationalise anti- Celtic rhetoric and then criticise Celtic again.
In turn we get defensive and miss the point.
There is not a single defendable reason for vandalism. None.
I had a Twitter exchange this week with Michael Grant who when challenged ended up calling me a thicko. I am confident that I have more qualifications than Michael Grant especially in the business field where I was discussing with him.
The press simply don’t know what else to do.
Barry Hearn today blew up the Hugh Keevins business model today – and that model is followed by so many in this country.
We need to jettison the hoards of ex- Rangers players who litter the TV and Radio with their anti- Celtic comments. We need to jettison the Celtic yellow livers like Walker who follow the model.
We need to revamp the marketing of our game- it won’t be easy and we as a support need to stop reacting to headlines and not the content.
Seville67
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2bno8f_celtic-6-1-rangers-u20s_sport
Goals from last night. HH
If Laws are made and not policed without fear or favour, across the full spectrum of society regardless of colour, creed, persuasion, social class, nationality, or gender, then would that make the law makers – and their officers who enforce the law – sectarian bigots?
I’m all for law-breakers to be arrested and charged and sentenced appropriately. I’m all for the breaking of the law to receive media attention; as long as the arrests and media attention are legal, proportionate, and without prejudice or censor.
Whataboutary is often a product of precedence; often an unpunished and unacknowledged precedent (if not actually establishment endorsed and lauded ala LC Final) too, and that breeds anger and grief.
sunny calmachie reports that he was at the game and saw no evidence of vandalism… is there any Celtic Supporter who was at the game who did see evidence of vandalism, before we condemn the innocent again?
Mike in Toronto
So Stokesie’s comments on twitter might force clubs to address racism and sectarian abuse as part of a wider duty of care?
If only……but I’m not holding my breath.
Imagine the term ‘an Anto’ entering football parlance next to bosman?!?
And Anto joins mandela, milk and Gandhi as a most unlikely civil rights visionary…….
Excuse me messing. I know it’s a serious subject…….but sometimes you’ve also gotta smile…..wryly!
HH jamesgang
I find it very strange that none of the press pack at the game noticed any damaged seats so three days discussing a penalty that wasn’t and now this.
Very odd indeed. Await club response, esp on stokes allegation with interest.
Mike
The iPhone said ‘milk’ even though I told it to say MLK!
HH jamesgang
Will catch up later, as work duties are calling me,
Happy Celticing
http://t.co/7Xh2v1swMD
The sending off which didn’t make “Celtic” vine’s edit.
jamesgang
It may not result in the end that I (and I think you) would like. But, if Celtic is interested in doing the right thing, this has given them the excuse and opportunity to do so justifiably.
If the Club does not come out and address the issue fully and publicly, then it seems to me that those who say the club is more interested in the OF Pound than in doing the right thing will be in a much stronger position to make that argument. I personally fear that may be the case, but I am prepared to give the club a reasonable opportunity to do the right thing before I condemn it.
but, I agree with you … Ghandi, Rosa Parks, Anthony Stokes …. seems an odd mix, but sometimes politics do make strange bedfellows!
HH
I watched a young Hearts supporter on Sunday in the stand opposite the Main Stand. She must have been about 10 years of age and she was crying. Not crocodile tears, really sobbing and she was petrified.
Minx and myself commented on the look of absolute terror on this child’s face. A steward pulled her aside and sheltered her to protect her from the chaos surrounding her.
The thing was it wasn’t the Celtic supporters that this girl was cowering from, it was thugs and neds wearing maroon. And yes they were shouting sectarian abuse but it wasn’t the kind that Mrs Budge is talking about.
“Fenian bastards!” was the most obvious one.
I used two separate toilets at Tynecastle on Sunday, both had Union Bears stickers on the walls and the toilet doors, I’m assuming that they’d been left up from the previous week’s game against the Huns.
It was mentioned on here last week about the huge metal constructions that are in place outside Tynecastle when Celtic visit. They’re strategically placed at the gate where the away support leave the ground and further along the road underneath a bridge that would connect to the main road.
These have been in place now for probably 3 years.
Why?
Was it because of a threat from the Celtic supporters leaving the ground that they would attack the home support?
No, these huge barricades are in place the keep the two sets of support apart and the main reason for this was because of the number of Celtic supporters who were being attacked after matches against Hearts. I know because I wrote and asked about 18 months ago.
Are the Celtic support full of angels? No, of course not but let’s get some perspective here.
I’m not saying an attitude of “Aye but they do it too!” is acceptable. However, despite drunkenness, drug use etc I didn’t witness any of the things that this lady is talking about.
Sad that so many are all too willing to swallow the seed of the Budgie.
Martim
Thanks for the clips.
Have to say Twardzik looked good there and more robust. I know it was only highlights but he may still have a future with us as I had almost written him off.
In all the Budge-gate excitement, I nearly forgot my favourite goal for today…
Perhaps it is apt that the goal is from a game against Hearts – the title clincher by John Hartson in 2006:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mP-mPWLqjco
Martim
Thanks for that. Great result for the bhoys.
Would love to see mcmullan and henderson get some first team action near end of season. We all know Liam is already capable enough.