We have spoken before that preliminary positions are being established ahead of the much-anticipated outcome of HM Revenue and Customs tribunal against Rangers with the possibility that, in the event the decision goes in favour of HMRC, the company could go into liquidation. This weekend brought a fresh attempt to pitch a positive scenario in favour of Rangers.
One newspaper sought solace in the case Parma, stating that the Italian club was allowed to re-emerge in Serie A after going out of business in 2004.
Unfortunately this is a complete misrepresentation of the facts, as far as Parma is concerned, precedent points to an entirely different outcome. Parma went into administration on 28 April 2004 after Parmalat, the dairy company which owned a majority of their shares, also went into administration. Parma remained in administration for three years before emerging after a successful restructuring of their debts. The club was then bought by a new company – but crucially – continuity of football operations was possible because there was no liquidation and debts were restructured in a way consistent with prevailing administration laws, that allowed a company to continue trading.
This, however, is not the end of the precedent Parma can offer Neil Doncaster and his SPL board. In 1968 AC Parma went into liquidation and disappeared from existence. They are an ex-football club, to use a phrase I can see creeping into the local lexicon soon.
Shortly after the failure and permanent disappearance of AC Parma, another club, AC Parmense, who were newly promoted into Sere D, changed their livery to match their better known former-neighbours and changed name to AC Parma. It was this club, AC Parma-formerly-known-as-AC Parmenese, who were promoted through the divisions and went on to win three European trophies.
Precedent from Italy is clear: if a large SPL club is liquidated an opportunity exists for Clyde FC to change their name, ditch the white shirts, rent a large, vacant, stadium and try to work their way through the leagues. Just as Airdrie United-formerly-known-as-Clydebank, are attempting to do.
There are no free tickets to the elite level of Scottish football.
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1,018 Comments- Pages:
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flux capacitors’r’us
odium
Damn them
Right,who took the p?
No to newco..
top 3
‘My theory has always been, that if we are to dream, the flatteries of hope are as cheap, and pleasanter, than the gloom of despair.’
Thomas Jefferson
Paul 67
Good points well made.
HH
23 January, 2012 at 12:09
Well I thought I would give you my view of the world from 4 points behind. I had already conceded the league on here a few weeks ago and expect the lead to increase in the coming weeks. The transfer strategy at Ibrox is non existent and we are being linked with every 30 year old journeyman from all over the place.
I am more worried about the future of the club and the person currently in charge of it.
Anyway, on to another subject.
There has been mass rejoicing on here about Rangers being liquidated, put into administration, relegated to division 3 etc., but I have to put this to you.
The SPL has always been a two horse league, you want it reduced to one, at a time when Scottish Football is at an all time low.
We are on our uppers, Hearts future is shaky, Aberdeen are millions in debt, so are Dundee Utd, Hibernian are the same and could be relegated and I would suggest that any pan European League or British league (which will happen someday) is years off.
So there you have it.
The SPL is yours for years to come. No Old Firm games, no competition.
Your Champions League entry will be questionable.
Turgid entertainment, which lets face it , is the norm in SPL football gets,will get worse. The notion that Rangers supporters will then divide their allegiances to ther clubs is laughable, they won’t become stronger because of our removal.
TV deals will diminish, sponsorship will fall, your ability to bring players to the SPL, hard just now, will become even harder. Foriegn players relish the Old Firm match, that will be gone for them.
Now, as for season ticket sales, the first season they would probably hold up, because of an atmosphere of triumphalism and being the only show in town.
After that, your season ticket sales will drop like a stone, due to lack of competition and poor fare.
Now ask yourself, really, will you be able to put up for such a scenario, I don’t think so.
hen1rik:
I’ve already said the road the club must take.
Traynor is arguing this morning that even a penalty which is applied three or four years in a row, a ten point deduction at the start of every season, is dangerous for the SPL because it would give Celtic a clear run at the title in those years and declare the entire league meaningless.
This is the guff being talked. That our league would be worthless if one team was allowed to emerge as far ahead of the rest. When Advocaat was spending the money which got them here, there was no such nonsense in the press.
Our club can stop this, dead. We know they can. Pretending our club has no power to prevent this is ludicrous. The argument that we need Rangers is a joke; it has no basis in reality. If the only argument our enemies have is that Scottish football needs both clubs then THAT is the option we take OFF the table.
I don’t care how we do it, but there are ways to push clubs to the brink. We could hand in our notice, announce we’re leaving the league in three years. In the meantime, we could refuse to take tickets for away grounds. Pull out of the Scottish Cup. Refuse to take part in the League Cup.
Above all, we must use the media, the international media, not the Scottish hacks who allowed this, to go front and centre and remind the rest of the football world just what has happened here; a club ran up huge debts buying players. It then defrauded the tax payer and now seeks to be re-admitted to the league without any penalty of significance, debt free.
If we allow it, if we allow the lie to be perpetuated to this degree, that we NEED Rangers, we are forever the other side of that valueless coin. We are forever tied to them, as part of the OF, however low their fans stoop, whatever debts that club plumbs, whatever debased shame they bring on this nation.
We have no credibility left. Our very ethos will be elminated at a stroke.
Our board must explore legal avenues to prevent it. They must explore options for bringing the moral force of public opinion down against it. They must resist in every conceivable way, taking it to FIFA and to the courts if FIFA do not play ball.
How can the SPL board act in its own commercial interests in a licensing matter which goes far beyond the league and into the realms of challenging government tax policy? How can a man like Campbell Ogilvie, who served on the board of not ONE tax dodging club but TWO play any role in deciding the issue? Were Rangers granted a European license fraudulently? Was their ANY standard of investigation into their means? Who REALLY runs the game in Scotland, and do Celtic want to legitimise Rangers pre-eminence forever?
Traynor has said there could be a period when there is no club called Rangers in Scotland. A short period. Well, during that period there would be a vacancy in the league, at the bottom, because every other club would move up one place.
EVERY other club. Automatically. The SPL could not “keep open” Rangers place and would have to promote a club from Division 1. That means a club from Division 2 would be promoted. And a club from Division 3. That makes it the business of the ENTIRE SFA membership.
Nothing short of total resistence to this will be acceptable. The soul of our club is at stake. If we fight we WILL win. Rangers WILL need to start in Division 3. No-one will convince me that this can possibly happen if Celtic is implaccably opposed to it. No-one will convince me we could not kill this.
BJMAOne final point,as DICANIO… mentioned is to keep a notebook on ANY goings-on from now which could be construed as detrimental to your position in the company.
The qualifying period for unfair dismissal does NOT apply to cases of CONSTRUCTIVE dismissal,and it involves a much heftier payout.
Might be an idea to join a union if you’re not already in one,ASAP as they tend to be a bit iffy on getting involved in pre-existing disputes.
Apart from that,and there should be no reason to doubt the credence of the apology/won’t happen again,I’m glad you got it sorted.
The Battered Bunnet’s advice was superb though…..
Precedent from Italy is clear: if a large SPL club is liquidated an opportunity exists for Clyde FC to change their name, ditch the white shirts, rent a large, vacant, stadium and try to work their way through the leagues. Just as Airdrie United-formerly-known-as-Clydebank, are attempting to do.
That would work.
I take that was irony.
seriously…riously
has traynors column…ooeer mrs
been awe naw’d or did i just weewee my best work tousers
for nothing…
And one of them who used to play for them would be an ex-ex-Ranger apart from Judas who would remain a six-six-six Ranger
are not Hibernian an old newco ?
WillieGroves
James Forrest I agree totally but we surely can’t just sit here, we must let our board know our feelings
http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/that-awkward-moment-when-your-friends-thumb-makes-you-look-like-a-tranny.jpg
Paul67
Loving the fact we are openly talking about them disappearing.
I heard today that there is one unhappy bare at Murray park because someone above is pulling in all these trialists without running it by him first. He has no idea who most of them are…
HH
truth4767
Go away
Paul67
Good article Paul.
Meanwhile back in the unreal world they are signing Tom, Dick, and Harry and there is nothing bad happening at Ibrokes, except those
nasty Aberdeen casuals beating on the dignified support.
“There are no free tickets to the elite level of Scottish football.”
Hope you’re right…
Truth
Go back to Swallow Swallow, they are more your level… ;)
RogueLeader 23 January, 2012 at 12:04:
I wish I shared you and James Forrest’s confidence on this matter.
It’s possible to buy a company brand as part of a pre-pack admin arrangement. There are cases of companies continueing to trade under the same name with the same logo in the same business.
What powers do HMRC have in preventing the prepack from happening? From reading the internet very few. They can ask for 6 months VAT up front and soon they’ll be able to ask for 6 months PAYE up front. They can take the directors to court but this will happen after the new co has formed.
Maybe there is value in reading about Farsley Celtic but I guess theydidn’t buy the old co brand so didn’t have the rights to use the name.
James Forrest is Lennon says:
23 January, 2012 at 11:55
Re using same name for newco, I assume you are aware of the Farsley Celtic scenario, where HMRC prevented the newco there from using the name Celtic in the newco/team’s name , hence now called Farsley AFC. Why has this not been highlighted yet in the huns’ case?
Paul67
Never let the truth stand in the way of a good story !
Yet another Sunday paper I have had to cancel ( I will miss the broons). Could CQN not bring out a Sunday edition ? Could even include a wee supplemnt called the ‘Broonies’
Parma /Parmalat —–
Calisto Tanzi -the CEO of Parmalat was given a prison sentence of 8 years for his part in the faking of Parmalat’s accounts . He was also stripped of the Honours which the Italian State had previously given him.
Maybe those precedents should be followed .?
Let’s assume that the NewCo is sufficiently different from Huns 1973 Ltd to be treated as a separate entity.
If the oldco goes during the season then the premier league must continue with eleven clubs and no relegation. A new team cannot come in mid season. Imagine if it was Third Lanark resurrected who entered. Could they take over Rangers’ place in the SPL, start with its point total and fulfil its fixtures? Of course not. Then neither could a NewCo.
If the oldco goes during the close season, there is a place vacant in the league structures. The president says that teams move up so that the vacancy is to be filled in the bottom division, and that’s exactly how it should happen in my view.
But if the NewCo is somehow allowed straight into the top division, how can it be penalised or handicapped? It has done nothing wrong. It is a new team with no history and has to start from scratch.
The Honest Mistake loves being first says:
23 January, 2012 at 12:31
according to what I have read Farsley Celtic were PREVENTED using name “Celtic”by HMRC, about preventing pheonix companies not assuming identity of liquidated company. I have a local researcher in Leeds trying to find exact specifics in this case. All the google links to the story have expired.
Paul67,
If they are that desperate to play in the SPL, they should buy one of the smaller clubs in the SPL and change their name. Surely that would be within the rules.
Whassat??? No money???? Need the rules to be changed to allow them to enter the league without financial penalty after cheating Britain out of close to a tenth of a billion pounds????
James Forrest – and the hun who thinks we can’t do without his team.
If you look at attendance figures over the last 20 years or so, you will see that success has an effect on supporters turning up.
(good site here which provides the info http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn.htm)
For instance in 2006, when Hertz had a great start to the season, and ended up finishing 2nd, their attendances were up 37%, and although they have dropped back since, their average support now is still better than it was prior to 2006, as they seem to have kept some of the support who were attracted by the success.
Murderwell this season have seen their attendances rise by over 10%, off the back of an ultimately futile challenge to split the top 2.
In Fergie’s final 3 seasons at Aberdeen when they won 2 of 3 titles, their attendances averaged 16k, with us and the Huns averaging 22k and 23k. That changed when Souness was brought in and the Huns started their financial doping. RFC’s tainted 9 in a row saw their attendances rise by over 30% over the period, as they didn’t care how weak the opposition was.
Some clubs in Scottish Football are better run than others, St Mirren and Hibs spring to mind. Why should their conservative, prudent and sensible approach be punished ? Livingston and Gretna paid the price for living outwith their means, surely any other team, no matter who they are, should pay the same.
This is not just about Celtic and the tax dodgers.
James Forrest is Lennon
Fantastic post once again. Earlier in response to Deluded4767, I stated when rangers were rank rotten in the early Eighties with attendances of 10000, Scottish Football absolutely thrived.
Aberdeen and Dundee Utd reached European finals.
They will not be missed…
HH
JAMES FORREST
Absolutely correct.
If they are allowed to simply carry on,then they may as well have won the tax case. Anyone aquiescing to,or even actively promoting,such a course,should be charged with being an accessory in a conspiracy to commit fraud.
A fraud against the Exchequer,against the population of the UK,a fraud against football,and a fraud against everything that sport-and business-stands for.
truth whatever you call yourself
The 1990’s with the exception of 3 seasons where Aberdeen took it to the last day and Tommy Burns challenged until the last 3 or 4 games was a one horse race without exception.
No one complained and no one said it was bad for the game.
There is nothing questionable about winning a league fair and square regardless of who the opponents are – your team wouldn’t know what that’s like in any season and certainly not since the monopoly money philosophy came in.
With being the only show in town and guaranteed Champions league football every year, foreign players would come for the prestige and the route to play in that competition as they did to Rangers in the 1990s. As a new company your buddies in the SFA cannot give you a European licence anyway so that will impact on you regardless of where you finished in the league.
You are just plain wrong son.
How much would it cost to buy Ibrox or even rent it?
I’m sure we could have a whip round so we can put an offer into KPMG or whoever gets the gig. We could grow plenty of tatties on that big field!!!!
:-)
truth4767 says:
23 January, 2012 at 12:23
“at a time when Scottish Football is at an all time low.”
… and have you ever stopped to think WHY it’s at an all time low? Your much lauded S. David Murray has a very very large portion of the blame to shoulder for the mess Scottish football is in, and by association so do every one of you who follows the club from Ibrox. Not one of you, NOT ONE, ever stopped to think the damage being done when he spent millions and millions of pounds of money he didn’t have buying trophies and titles – but it didn’t matter cos you are the people and you have a god-given right to do whatever you saw fit to make sure the rest of Scotland were also-rans.
And now you’ve got the cheek to come on a Celtic fans forum and cry your crocodile tears cos your past has caught up with you, and, if there is any justice in the world, your club will cease to exist in a short time.
You are reaping what you’ve sown. The fact is Scottish football will survivem and will be the better without your lot. Good riddance I say. Enjoy your purgatory.
Paul67…HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
I’m getting the jist…HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
I concluded the same on Sunday morning…HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
Between your article…HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
And a post at 12:09 on last thread…HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
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MWD…HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
i can smell one of em in here.
be gone
i dont like any of this business stuff. i dont understand it. all i know is the league would be rubbish with no rangers. not many of our fans would stay loyal if we didnt have 2 old firm games to watch every year. we might get a good lau8gh for a while but we would soon think it isnt that funny i reckon. thats why that truth4767 guy is right. we need to look at the bigger photo. a quick laugh now isnt worth it. i mean guys in the paper are saying how it is going to be. surely folk on here dont think they know better than guys who have been writing and been at the sharp side of football for decades?
Oh! He’s appeared on this articles thread to… HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
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MWD