Get your tickets from the Octopus in the corner

This afternoon’s statement from Octopus Investments was very professionally written piece.  It was designed to give investors a sense that the business has taken appropriate steps to secure money spent with Rangers.

For a start, we now know their company, Ticketus, “purchased tickets for Glasgow Rangers games for a number of seasons”.  This clarifies one matter, money received by Craig Whyte’s solicitors back in May last year was a straightforward purchase, not a loan, so VAT was applicable, and should have been declared and paid.  We can assume this VAT was not paid, whether it was declared or not will determine future consequences.

Octopus explain their investments are “designed with capital preservation in mind”, with “appropriate security being available” and “extensive due diligence”.

A reasonable interpretation of this is that the company have sufficient security to ensure that they have rights to sell Rangers tickets for parts or all of the stadium in years to come, although, the company stop short of making a firm statement on what is, after all, a private commercial matter.  They add that “no trading activity is risk free”, no one can assume there will be a Rangers in the future, and while their statement mentions Glasgow Rangers, it does not specifically mention a legal entity.

A floating charge exists over the stadium in Craig Whyte’s favour.  This would see the stadium revert to Whyte in the event of the club being liquidated.  Octopus may, or may not, have a claim on this floating charge.

Armed with this information, the administrators and Strathclyde Police will be keen to learn why none of the money for Rangers tickets went into the club.  Perhaps more importantly for any potential phoenix, questions remain over exactly who owns what claims on the stadium.

There could be a lot of sentimental photos being taken at Ibrox tomorrow.

All levity aside, this club is enduring a seemingly unending trauma.

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511 thoughts on "Get your tickets from the Octopus in the corner"

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  • No Excuses

    Paul67

    Do you have any idea if the club have a strategy in place for some form of recourse should Rangers walk away scot (as in ‘scot’tish national party) free?

    I’m in no way as well informed or knowledgeable as some on here such as Paul, JF, BRTH et al, however from what I can see there are 2 likely outcomes, (1) they limp through admin, come out the otherside with the CVA due to government intervention to bully HMRC (2) HMRC have the gohones they should have and obliterate the club leading to liquidation and a pheonix.

    What I hope is that should there debt be zeroed and they continue as if nothing happens, our club will pursue everyone involved in a civil action. This season should be written off. It should be easy enough to link the £9m PAYE and VAT fund to paying key players who have contributed to their points total. They wilfully withheld this money and what could NL have done with an extra £9m?

    If everyone from salmond, Reagan, to UEFA acquiesces to this, we are as well closing the door on scottish football and sporting integrity.

    If Scotland and her culture ‘need’ a club who have shown consistent and malicious disregard for the country’s catholics, for the national sport, for the taxpayer and for the Queen (oh the irony), then what kind of country are we?

  • Dobbo

    The fundamental position is this: if you cannot pay your debts using finance, you will pay for them in sporting sanctions.

  • johann murdoch

    Pub name

    Squids Inn ?

  • NatKnow

    Paul67 -

    “All levity aside…” – as someone more profound than me once said…not bloody likely!

    Anyways – no-one’s considered the REAL victims here. That’s right – those who participated in the “Buy A Brick At Ibrox” scheme.

    Surely THEY have the most legitimate claim to ownership of the stadium?!!

  • Boba Petta

    paul – do you know how much it costs to police a glasgow derby?
    a lot of lolly for the threadbare, tainted title 11 (1988-99 – 1996-97) plc in administration.
    how can they pay for this?

  • voguepunter

    pabloh_AKA_NEIL LENNON says:
    17 February, 2012 at 17:12

    If we still relied on the meeja in this country,
    your correct ,the huns would have gotten away
    with even this ,bad news would have been suppressed and sfa would have released no info.

    Too much info now on our sites,loving every moment
    of this,and huns still in denial…..a think craigie
    is playing this verrry cleverrrly,the big hoooose
    must stay opun ,etc……………..magic time in timland.

  • bmcd48

    re the octopus

    rangers pubs

    masonic loads of arms

  • Sixteen roads to Golgotha

    The thing that is most obvious is this – The hun.They are not embarrassed by any of this,they are shameless.

    Did anybody have the misfortune of witnessing that gathering,outside of their old,asbestos stadium the other night?

    The dregs of humanity.

    It was like something from a zombie film.

    Some folk refer to the hun as being animalistic,others claim that they are sub-human.To me though – they are zombie-like creatures.

  • BromleyBhoy

    Hi Paul67,

    I just wanted to say I don’t understand what the issue is here…

    RFC is a business with an income in excess of 30 Million WITHOUT any European Income.

    It should be perfectly reasonable for them in administration to remove the high earners and agree a settlement to ALL creditors of around 5 million a season to pay off their debts (after the ‘big tax case’ this could mean this takes 11 or 12 years). I am sure HMRC as the biggest creditor would agree.

    In future like EVERY other club in Scotland they will have to learn to ‘cut their cloth’ accordingly.

    Realistically they will still be able to spend more on players than the other teams in the SPL (other than Celtic).

    If this means they struggle to win.. so be it.

    Forget any further point deduction or previous title removals.

    PAY BACK WHAT YOU OWE!!!!

    B

  • MadMitch

    Sparkle … @ 17.12

    I think this is where CW and his floating charge start to get creative.

    Either CW has passed over the charge Tickerus as security for the money they gave him or they have some sort of Contract on the revenue generated at Ibrox.

    Consequently Ibrox then becomes an indirect pawn in the post CVA / NewCo situation.
    Either Ticketus are agreeable to a GTF settlement and the new mob move forward as masters of their own destiny / stadium or they will have three years of playing to entertain a crowd who in the main 25K / 27K seats have paid others for the priviledge.

    Ibrox is key – totem for a lot of fans.

    NewCo could always try and play elsewhere.

    SFA / Hampden, even the SRU / Murrayfield are worth watching on this.

  • Call_of_Juarez

    Malcye 17.13

    I was wondering when kafflik schools would get the blame for the currant buns demise.

    I think we will hear the full repertoire from the songbook tomorrow. Mr Salmond may be in for some embarrassment.

    It’s been a great week to be a Celtic supporter.

  • hen1rik

    Headtheball says:
    17 February, 2012 at 17:10
    While the SFA statement is welcome, I worry a little bit about the final paragraph.

    ‘It is essential that we work together to improve the overall sustainability and competitiveness of the game in this country’.

    Meaning Ranjurs must still be around?

    Maybe I’m just being paranoid.

    No matey that’s what i was thinking, league reconstruction.

  • greenmaestro

    I may be slow on the uptake:

    So if Ticketus own the tickets for rangers games, do they have a claim on all cash paid for entry to ibrox on Saturday?
    Does thie man that rangers have no income stream from tickets for the next 3 or 4 yeara, if rangers (any version) try to sell future tickets in this period do Ticketus geot the cash, if ticketus don’t get the cash then rangers (any version) may be ted up in court action for years to come?

    I’ll now be a bit Ben Elton and get a little bit political:

    My vote is for the Jelly and Ice Cream Party

  • Dublinbhoy

    James Forrest:

    That is a great email. Well done and very good timing in sending it too.

    Regans statement is good news, but, I am very concerned by his last paragraph:

    “Finally, I would like to reiterate the need to learn the lessons from this unedifying episode. It is essential that we work together to improve the overall sustainability and competitiveness of the game in this country. This is a matter that the Scottish FA is already in discussions with the relevant league bodies to address.”

    This to me is indicates that the huns will get off with a slap on the wrist whatever the outcome of the inquiry.

    Hail Hail

  • Estadio

    Just a quick post,

    I’ve been avoiding all the naturally emotive and ‘what we want’ stuff rather than ‘what we think might really happen’ stuff.

    I need to maintain a level of sanity if the stuff I posted on etims this morning is to be left behind in the Cuckoo’s nest.

    Fortunately in my search for real substance and analysis, Rioskorrie sent me this.

    Best article I’ve read yet on

    Why Scotland Doesn’t need Rangers

    Hail hail

    Estadio

  • pabloh_AKA_NEIL LENNON

    Call of Juarez,

    Agree. The return of the billy boys tomo no doubt. (while they still can)

  • Sixteen roads to Golgotha

    Forget about the highways:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z32IXBERjdA

  • lionroars67

    How is it possible for Craig Whyte to have broken the rules of the SFA, with ex SFA chief Gordon Smith and ex Scotland assistant manager Ally McCoist at ibroke, both these men held senior executive positions at the SFA, Craig Whyte had a wealth of knowledge and experience of the SFA and their rulebook available to him on a daily basis, the club and Craig Whyte have no excuse

  • fergus slayed the blues

    MadMitch says:
    17 February, 2012 at 17:40
    I think any newco has to play out of Ibrokes .If they lose their history the bears will go ballistic .If they are then not able to go the the place that epitomises the essence of that history ,I would be surprised if they even bothered to turn up anywhere else .
    hail hail

  • bournesouprecipe

    SFA launch inquiry into Ragers two months after they launch an inquiry into Ragers.

  • fergus slayed the blues

    lionroars67 says:
    17 February, 2012 at 17:48
    IMO Duffield needs looked at in any investigation .
    hail hail

  • St Martin De Porres

    A Guy walks into a bar with an octopus. He sits the octopus on a stool and announces that this is a very talented octopus, which can play any musical instrument in the world.
    Everyone laughs at the man, calling him an idiot. So he says that he’ll wager £50 to anyone who has an instrument that the octopus can’t play.
    A guy walks up with a guitar and puts it beside the octopus. Immediately the octopus picks up the guitar and starts playing better than Eric Clapton. The guitar man pays up his £50.
    Another guy comes up with a trumpet. This time the octopus plays like Miles Davis.
    This guy pays his £50. 
    Then a Scotsman hands over a set of bagpipes. The octopus fumbles with it for a minute and then sits down with a confused look.
    “Ha,” the Scot says. “Can ye no play it?” The Octopus looks at him and says: “Play it? I’m going to make love to it as soon as I figure out how to get these pyjamas off…

    sorry!

  • blantyretim

    Why is Ogilvie still in a job?..

  • bunburybhoy

    Sixteen roads to Golgotha@ 17:38
    Love the Zombie analogy…
    Saturday will see the biggest MASS gathering of the vile creatures coming together one last time to feast on the putrid rotting flesh of the foetid remains of Scotland’s Shame.
    HAIL HAIL

  • harryhoodsdugbitme

    Where were their supporters? Their Fans? Where were they as this all played out? Lazy lazy lazy lazy lazy lazy lazy lazy lazy peepil. All was good in your rotten theiving world. Ya didn’t see it comin ya muppets!! Hell mend you.HH.

  • jmccormick

    Estadio says:
    17 February, 2012 at 17:45

    Good to see back in the playground, hope all is well. the article you posted is excellent I read it earlier this week and have been explaining all of this to my southern freinds at work this week. They have been bombarded by the brotherhoods party line on BBC and Sky all week, fair play to The Evening Standard and Independent for questioning the rhetoric from the LL.

  • MadMitch

    Greenm … @ 17.42

    I think Ticketus are to be paid in 3 now 4 lump sums.

    The original plan was for a three year deal.

    £24.4mill paid out to CW / TFOD Group in May 2011.
    Ticketus to get money fom seasons 2011/12 + 2012/13 + 2013/14.

    There instalments – £9.5mill in June 2012 / £8.5mill (guess) in June 2013 / £?.? In June 2013.
    The TFOD sell the season tickets and pass the money onto .

    However the TFOD could only pony up £3.0mill in June / July 2011.
    Ticketus then get another year added to the deal.

    Consequently any money now goes to the TFOD (admin) entity.
    The fun starts at the end of the season when the season ticket renewals get sent out.

  • sparkleghirl

    Could they move to Hampden, Murrayfield just for a few years until the ticketus deal is up with the promise of going back to Ibrox later? Deep down I am sure that ticketus will have all their bases covered, but….

  • jmccormick

    Sorry forgot to add that I too fear tomorrow at Ipox will be the biggest Bigot Fest since Jock Wallace took his half time bow. The crowd scenesthis week had me enquiring if Brad Pitt had come back to finish the Zombie movie off.

  • The Honest Mistake loves being first

    From the hmrc manual:

    INS44330 – What to investigate and how: Wrongful and fraudulent trading: How can I spot a potential wrongful trading action?
    A review of papers the Department holds in relation to PAYE/NIC and CT may indicate the company has been trading whilst insolvent. The definitions of insolvency being the company is
    either insolvent on a balance sheet test, or
    unable to pay its debts as they fall due.
    So any or all of the following may point to trading whilst insolvent.
    If the last balance sheet showed the company was insolvent (i.e. total liabilities excluding share capital exceed total assets) and it has traded since then, it may satisfy the S214 IA 1986 test. You should check earlier balance sheets to see if it was insolvent at an earlier date.
    Failure to make PAYE remittances on time over a number of months may indicate the directors should have known the company was in trouble, and so they may be liable under S214 IA 1986.
    Failure to make CT remittances due may similarly indicate trading whilst insolvent.
    Failure to pay VAT on time. You can check this with Customs & Excise if there is time to do so prior to the creditors’ meeting.

  • wonkyradar

    Just been on hun media…one guy wished for an undoning machine- the adverb of done? I put my tuppence worth in, suggesting he was stretching the concept of an adverb to credulity- in anycase he was merely describing a time machine (hewanted to assassinate minty)- accussed me of chauvinism in relation to kafflick schooling…thats what happens when your weltanschuung collapses…particularly when its founded on superficial notions of triumphalism….it falling down like a “big house” of cards…

  • Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo

    I couldn’t hear this in the office properly today but I just heard it full volume.

    Pablophanque would have this on repeat

    Truly awesome

    Billy No’well take it away

    http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D-HyPCe73fdw&v=-HyPCe73fdw&gl=DE

  • ArranmoreBhoyLXV11

    Whyte” takes a step back” .. No kidding big man!

    However you played a blinder.. Humped and dumped them in deeper mud..

    The collective density at Ibrokes eg LEGNEDS to the boardroom is stunning..

    Liquidation could not happen to a nastier thicker bunch.. Beautiful..

    Focus on the prizes Celtic.. Treble and liquidation..

    Accept no less!

  • MadMitch

    Ferguson … @ 17.49

    My thoughts as well.
    Any NewCo is credible if it plays at Ibrox.
    Not sure about the old badge, strip – a good copy maybe enough.
    However I fear it is going to get complicated.

    What does CW want for his £18mill floating charge?
    What happens if no-one wants to pay £18mill for Ibrox?
    Where does Ticketus fit into this puzzle?

    On re-org / NewCo needs to sort out the creditors / sort out CW and his floating charge / sort out Ticketus.
    Then it might be allowed to play football.

  • celt55

    My sympathies go to Sally and Mr. Clark, who have the unenviable task of deciding who to release next week. How will they go about it?
    Ability?
    Experience?
    Salary?
    Or will it be case of:
    Naw he canny go his faither’s in the Ludge,
    Naw, he’s the only wan left that knows aw the words o’ the Billy Boys.
    Aye, he can go his wife’s cousin’s a taig.
    Who knows?

  • ulysses mcghee

    Paul or others

    Any info on how the SFA are coming along with their investigation in regards to Craig Whyte being
    fit and proper for the role as Toap Kiddie at ‘The Big House’?

    U

  • malceye

    WATP = We Are the Paupers

  • Snake Plissken

    Whyte has issued a writ against the BBC over the documentary.

    That will be interesting.

  • Whatever part of my club is dependent on Rangers I am willing to lose – formerly known as Malone19

    Paul67

    Just had a look at the eBay listing – top bidder has zero feedback – hope it’s not some imposter causing trouble, that would be disgusting. (could just be someone who hasn’t used ebay before or wishing to remain anonymous)

  • croppybhoy

    Re SFA inquiry

    Lets remember there were TWO SFA inquiries in to Farry which cleared him until Fergus pushed for a truly independent inquiry

    HH

  • bournesouprecipe

    What influence did Celtic’s magnificent 19 point swing have on February 13th being administration day?

  • starry plough

    The question is who with the SFA rubber stamped Craig Whyte’s fit and proper person test???

    And is that person going to be involved in the new investigation into ragers, if so what’s the point?

    Sweet Fanny Adams..

  • blantyretim

    WATP

    When are they paying?

  • Headtheball

    Dallas to head the inquiry, anyone?

  • Jobo Baldie

    Hello friends and a Big Happy Friday to you all!

    Well that was the week that was. And the fun just keep on coming…

    Jobo

  • Is Mise Neil Lennon

    Dontbrattbakkinanger says:
    17 February, 2012 at 17:11
    Octopus looking to get their squids back.

    Can’t see for all that red ink.

  • googybhoy ♥ Celtic and Integrity

    Birthday Cake for ElDiegoBhoy

    Happy Birthday.
    Fire service on stand by in Balloch.

  • Dublinbhoy

    More trouble for our Craig?

    Not sure if this has been posted, apologies if it has

    Investors warned over Pritchard Stockbrokers

    Last week the FSA banned Pritchard Stockbrokers from trading
    Investors have been warned a stockbroking firm, whose company secretary is ex-Rangers chairman Craig Whyte, may not be able to return their investment.

    Merchant Capital had £8.8m on account with Pritchard Stockbrokers in Bournemouth at the end of June 2011.

    Parent firm Merchant House Group issued the warning to its clients in a statement to the stock exchange.

    Mr Whyte is a lead investor in Pritchard.

    He placed Rangers FC into administration earlier this week.

    Last Friday, the stockbroking firm was banned from further trading by the Financial Services Authority.

    It ruled that it had been using clients’ funds to pay its own expenses and to trade on its own account, thus putting clients’ funds at risk. That broke the rules under which it is licensed to act as a stockbroker.

    Merchant House Group responded with a statement saying it was confident client funds were secure, but it has since updated and reversed that statement.

    It told the London Stock Exchange: “We are awaiting further news on the possible implications and therefore we cannot at this time determine whether clients of Merchant Capital may suffer some economic loss”.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-17073568

    Hail Hail

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