Fan power begins to flex its muscle

I am sure Neil Doncaster’s job is full of stresses and strains but this week will probably be a breeze.  Fans of every club in the league appear to be in uproar at the resolutions for an Insolvency Transfer Event to be voted on later this month. Infuriating everyone is surely better than infuriating most but leaving one group happy.

Fans of 11 SPL clubs have reacted in horror that the league seek to introduce a facility to allow a liquidated club to phoenix straight back into the top tier of Scottish football.  Fans of Rangers, while along with administrators and bidders for the club are publicly opposed to liquidation, are outraged that this new facility to allow a new club entry to the SPL should carry a sporting and financial inhibitor.

For clarification: the inhibitor is there to ensure clubs have a modicum of moral hazard against gaining an unfair advantage before ditching creditors and their old skins, and emerging in the SPL with player registrations from another club but without the debts or consequences of mismanagement.

Rangers US and Singapore based bidders seem unperturbed by the proposals.  Paul Murray’s Blue Knights consortium has curiously lost its tongue.  Maybe this helps explain all those years when the EBTs were unopposed by the former Rangers board.  Silence, not even an utterance!

There remains three possible outcomes to this issue:

The proposed SPL resolutions will be passed, allowing a Newco straight entry to the League.

The resolutions will fail and the SPL board will vote a Newco into the league anyway.

The resolutions will fail and the SPL board will deny Newco a place in the league.

Celtic Quick News first flagged this scenario in October last year when we predicted Newco would be given a parachute into the SPL, opposed only by Celtic.  As the key resolution (2A) requires only 8 votes I still expect this to happen, despite the ‘Bring it on’ view of many Rangers fans to the prospect of starting again from Division Three.

As the financial penalty resolution (2B) requires 11 votes I expect this to fail and no financial penalties to be imposed.

The question for Kilmarnock, Dunfermline, St Mirren, Inverness, Motherwell, St Johnstone, Hibs and Kilmarnock (don’t tell me they’ll not try to get two votes, they have a huge mountain of debt to service and have every right to demand two votes) is, will they listen to their fans or their bank manager?

Dundee United and Hearts, like North Korea, appear convinced of their own superior wisdom and, like a North Korean missile, could head off in any random direction to demonstrate their contempt for clubs scared of providing satirists with material.  They could easily vote themselves into a Gorgie-Tannadice League, if they could agree on a Gorgie-Tannadice/Tannadice-Gorgie naming convention.

For now, if you care about any of this, participate in the online SPL Fan Survey.  We’ll soon find out who runs Scottish football, fans or the Bank of Scotland! One additional point about democracy, it carries responsibility. In this instance, stopping Newco means fans of all remaining clubs have to step forward in increasing numbers to buy season tickets. This is the cost of sporting integrity.

Can you write an article for CQN Magazine? Give me a shout, celticquicknews@gmail.com

Pay your bills!




1098 thoughts on "Fan power begins to flex its muscle"

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  • Vmhan Supporting Lenny!

    Afternoon Celts,
    001bhoy are ye around?
    V

  • traditionalist88

    CELTIC!

  • Vmhan Supporting Lenny!

    Paul67……. this is more like it, we should be the loudest voice in this…… Green power….

    CSA, Affiliation, NACSC’s, Irish asociation, GB…. our websites and media, lets all stand together.
    V

  • The Token Tim

    Repost from last article:

    “Folks,

    due to illness I now cant make the game on Sunday.
    So I have 2 tickets for the South Stand (thats the main stand in ole money) available if anyone wants them?

    £40 for the pair.

    Area I5 Row S Seats 109/110.

    Let me know if anyone wants them and we can arrange pick-up etc later.

    HAIL! HAIL!
    Token “

  • traditionalist88

    A newco would retain oldco player registrations?

    HH

  • Vmhan Supporting Lenny!

    Not podium chasing today……. Just on line at the right TIM

    V

  • hamiltontim

    TTT

    Did you say the cup final is 19th May????

  • TinyTim

    Paul 67
    How does increased season ticket sales stop a Newco?
    TT

  • Vmhan Supporting Lenny!

    HT I believe it is.

    1st Sat 3am KO in months if we make it…… when.
    V

  • Lennon n Mc….Mjallby

    Hateley is vanity aged and carrying a burden,a first class arsehole of a man unstomachable whether Awe Naw’d or not.

  • Seven Fishes Four Steaks

    Paul, “Silence, not even an utterance”

    Long time since you have used the “Utter” word :-)

    SffS

  • TinyTim

    WDH
    Glad to see you posting.
    TT

  • pggtips2

    Paul67

    Celtic have given no indication they intend to do anything besides vote with Rangers on whatever issue arises.

    I am waiting, and I guess, waiting a while before a director of Celtic strongly condemns the possibility of

  • Seven Fishes Four Steaks

    Tiny Tim, i would assume if a NewCo is stopped, season tickets would need to increase at clubs to prove that this decision was right, we dont need no stinking Rangers!

    SffS

  • Som mes que un club

    Petition completed.

  • whitedoghunch

    TinyTim

    thanks

  • pggtips2

    a newco being allowed straight into the SPL as the Livi director in this mornings newspapers

    A newco from the remains of any former club.

  • mighty tim

    Vmhan. Agreed every Celtic club, association and website should all be singing off the same hymn sheet on this. I also think that we should let Celtic Plc no exactly how we feel and that we expect them to lead from the front on this.
    I also think that the guys who run all the different fans sites should be arranging to meet to organise a joint rejection from the fans to all clubs and the SPL/SFA.
    The fans are football, without them there is no football.
    Doncaster and his cronies are only try to protect the scum, this is unacceptable.
    For 2 decades they have lied and cheated their way to titles and trophies, these must be removed and the proper punishment as fits the crimes should be meted out to them.

    HH

  • The Token Tim

    HT,

    yep that I did.
    According to SFA website thats when it is……..then the CL Final that same night too!

    Already had this “discussion” with Mrs TTT re viewing arrangements for1st Communion day……….not often I say this, but the TTT foot was well and truly put down!

    HAIL! HAIL!
    Token

  • SuperSutton

    Paul,

    Is there any opportunity for other proposals to be presented and voted upon? Or is Neil Doncaster the only person allowed to put new proposals forward?

    By which I mean, it is possible that clubs may not agree with any individual proposal per se, but would vote for an amended version.

    For example, points deduction last for 5 years, or such like.

  • traditionalist88

    I wonder what the consensus is amongst Hearts fans on the newco issue, bearing in mind it may have implications for them before too long.

    Do they support their big cousins being parachuted back in or do they want to take over as the ‘big huns’?!

    HH

  • pggtips2

    Celtic could exterminate the possibility of a parachute newco tomorrow if they so wished

  • ASonOfDan

    Paul67

    Would you agree that Scottish Football started heading into the abyss 26 years ago when Souness was appointed.

    rangers have taken Scottish Football to this point and want to walk away without a blemish to their name.

    SICKENEDCSC

  • hamiltontim

    Vmhan/TTT

    Cheers I didn’t realise.

    That’s my daughter’s first Communion Day also!!!!!

    Cup final ticket for sale…..

  • themightyquinn

    Token… I’ll take them off your hands, where and when shall we meet?

  • Kilbowie Kelt

    Folly Folly on 13 April, 2012 at 12:18 said:

    LiviBhoy on 13 April, 2012 at 11:55 said
    Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo on 13 April, 2012 at 11:47

    There seems to be a growing body of evidence to suggest that our very own Declan may actually be Mark Hately …
    __________________

    Not the remotest possibility.
    Declan is INTENTIONALLY funny.

  • The Token Tim

    The Mighty Quinn,

    can you email me on davie211967@gmail.com

    HAIL! HAIL!
    Token

  • hamiltontim

    pggtips2

    How exactly??

  • winningemmell

    Scottish Cup Record v Heart of Midlothian

    06/04/1901 FINAL IBROX L 3-4, McOustra, Quinn, McMahon 17,000

    15/02/1902 QF AWAY D 1-1 Quinn 23,000
    22/02/1902 QFR HOME W 2-1 McMahon 2 25,000

    24/02/1906 HOME L 1-2 McMenemy 50,000

    20/04/1907 FINAL HAMPDEN W 3-0 Somers 2, Orr (pen) 50,000 – Celtic’s 10th SCF and 5th win and first Double

    30/03/1912 SEMI IBROX W 3-0 McMenemy 2, Brown 43,000

    08/03/1913 QF HOME L 0-1 65,000

    05/03/1921 QF HOME L 1-2 Gallacher 37,000

    20/02/1926 AWAY W 4-0 McInally 2, McGrory, Connolly 50,500

    18/03/1933 SEMI HAMPDEN d 0-0 87,000
    22/03/1933 SEMI R HAMPDEN W 2-1 McGrory (40), A Thomson (75) 63,756 HT 1-0; 4.15pm KO

    18/02/1939 AWAY D 2-2 Delaney, McDonald 49,572
    22/02/1939 HOME R W 2-1 Divers 2 80,840

    24/02/1951 AWAY W 2-1 J Weir (13), McPhail (36) 47,000 HT 2-1

    21/04/1956 FINAL HAMPDEN L 1-3 Haughney (53) 132,842 HT 0-1

    17/02/1962 AWAY W 4-3 Divers 2 (12, 79), Chalmers (75), Crerand (86 pen) 35,045 HT 1-1

    06/03/1963 HOME W 3-1 Murdoch (36), McNamee (55), Hughes (73) 38,000 HT 1-1

    05/03/1966 QF AWAY D 3-3 Auld (24), McBride (48), Chalmers (54) 45,965 HT 1-2
    09/03/1966 QFR HOME W 3-1 Johnstone (9), Murdoch (32), Chalmers (50) 72,000 HT 2-0

    18/03/1972 QF HOME D 1-1 Deans (31) 47,500 HT 1-0
    27/03/1972 QFR AWAY W 1-0 Macari (35) 40,029 *

    12/03/1983 QF HOME W 4-1 MacLeod (12), McGarvey (53), Nicholas 2 (67, 81) 25,458 HT 1-0

    21/02/1987 AWAY L 0-1 28,891 HT 0-0 – Celtic’s only Scottish Cup defeat by Hearts at Tynecastle

    09/04/1988 SF HAMPDEN W 2-1 McGhee (87), Walker (89) 65,886 HT 0-0

    18/03/1989 QF HOME W 2-1 McGhee (18), Aitken (36 pen) 46,348 HT 2-0, – Mick McCarthy was ordered off

    11/03/2001 QF HOME W 1-0 Larsson (40) 34,672

    07/02/2004 AWAY W 3-0 Petrov 2 (3, 33), Larsson (90) 15,372

    10/04/2005 SEMI HAMPDEN W 2-1 Sutton (3), Bellamy (49) 38,505 HT 1-0

    P 28 W 17 D 5 L 6 F 56 A 33

    Celtic have averaged exactly two goals per fixture

    * One of my heightened football pleasures is when we win replayed ties away from home when our opponents think they now have the advantage

  • ASonOfDan

    A gentle reminder from UEFA to the SFA “and in the spirit of Uefa’s club licensing and financial fair play regulations.”

    European football’s governing body is confident the Scottish authorities will deal with Rangers’ current plight.

    Uefa, in a statement, stressed that issues regarding club licensing and financial fair play falls under the authority of the Scottish governing bodies.

    It said it was aware of the “difficult financial situation” at Ibrox.

    Rangers have been in administration since February and Duff & Phelps has delayed naming a preferred bidder.

    The delay follows proposed changes to sanctions for insolvent clubs.

    The SPL will consider new proposals for financial fair play at a meeting on 30 April.

    Uefa said it has “been in close contact throughout with the Scottish FA and the administrators of Rangers FC, in order to explain the club licensing and financial fair play rules and how they would apply in different possible scenarios”.

    “Such a situation falls under the authority of the national governing bodies responsible for evaluating and deciding on any necessary measure(s) they estimate appropriate to avoid similar cases occurring in the future.

    “Uefa is entirely confident that the Scottish FA will deal with this case in full compliance with the national club licensing regulations and in the spirit of Uefa’s club licensing and financial fair play regulations.”

  • themightyquinn

    Token.

    Email sent.

  • ASonOfDan

    Craigy boy just laughed and told them to jog on…

    Rangers directors Andrew Ellis and Dave King have called for the resignation of Ibrox owner Craig Whyte.

    GettyImages
    Craig Whyte: Making headlines again
    London property developer Ellis and King, a South Africa-based businessman, have contacted the club’s administrators Duff and Phelps with their demand.

    A statement read: “We can confirm that as directors of Rangers, we (Andrew Ellis and Dave King) want Craig Whyte to step down with immediate effect in order to safeguard the future of the club.

    “He has been found not to be a fit and proper person to be an official at a football club by the Scottish Football Association.

    “Moreover, he has not done the right thing in the past for Rangers and we believe that he will not do the right thing for the club in the future.

    “It is abundantly clear that Craig has misled the Rangers board and the fans but by walking away immediately we believe and hope it will make the sale of the club easier.”

    Whyte has repeatedly denied any wrongdoing since taking over Rangers last May and since the club was plunged into administration on February 14.

    A spokesman for Duff and Phelps, who are in discussions with three parties over a takeover of Rangers, told the Daily Record: “The powers of all directors are effectively removed when a company goes into administration – unless the administrators decide otherwise.

    “We will consider the request of Messrs Ellis and King and, if necessary, will review the position of any or all directors should it be a material issue for the preferred bidder, once that party is selected.”

  • jc2

    We are getting ahead of ourselves BUT I was under impression Cup Final was getting moved to a Sunday because of CL final or was that just a rumour.

  • LiviBhoy

    SPL survey is currently sitting at 93% No to Newco in SPL.

    LB

  • dirtymac \o/

    TinyTim on 13 April, 2012 at 12:32 said:
    Paul 67
    How does increased season ticket sales stop a Newco?
    TT
    +++++

    It doesn’t; increased ST sales mitigates the perceived potential losses incurred at clubs from the loss of der orkenkind.

  • Kayal33

    jc2 on 13 April, 2012 at 12:51 said:
    We are getting ahead of ourselves BUT I was under impression Cup Final was getting moved to a Sunday because of CL final or was that just a rumour.

    That’s from next season

  • kevinlasvegas

    petition signed and survey, not many hits on it so far , for such a hot topic.

    hail hail.

    KLV

  • paulsatim is neil lennon

    Paul67, re Financial Fair Play, could we, the scottish football fans, start a class action to reclaim season ticket money from SPL, paid for what has turned out to be an unfair financially rigged product?

  • The Deadly Ledley

    Sign the petition to say NO TO NEWCO in SPL.

    Hail Hail

    http://www.petitionbuzz.com/petitions/norangersnewco

  • The Honest Mistake loves being first

    Paul67,
    Is it not in the banks interests to stop the liquidation/start again from fresh loophole being introduced?
    OK, in rangers case the banks will lose SFA directly, but if another club that owes money to the bank decides to ditch its debts in this manner then the banks are onto a loser.
    Surely to mitigate the extra risks caused by the loophole they will raise loan interest rates……oh I see. Makes sense now.

  • jackie mac

    Stella is pish, I need to get the point I got to with the DR a while ago and just stop buying it.

  • oldcastlebhoy

    Breaking Bad Question – Just finished season 4 – when’s the new one coming out – Can’t wait!!!

  • setting free the bears

    Paul67

    “For clarification: the inhibitor is there to ensure clubs have a modicum of moral hazard against gaining an unfair advantage before ditching creditors and their old skins, and emerging in the SPL with player registrations from another club but without the debts or consequences of mismanagement.”

    Surely, the greater moral hazard for Rangers would be that they lose their 140 year history or, even, their record of never having been relegated? It is a fantasy to see that loss of some points (which would have to be retracted if it leaves them out of the top 6) or loss of some thousands of pounds is any recompense for debt of £134m.

    The Doncaster rules seem designed to square the circle. They aim to persuade HMRC that a newco is not Rangers but persuade the rangers fans of the opposite fact, that they really are Rangers so that those fans will continue to support Scottish football. Therefore, the crucial question remains – do they keep their record of sporting achievements or not? Are they treated differently than Airdrie, who lost theirs?

    Any other moral hazard is pretend punishment. If liquidated, they already have lost players, ground and training centres. They will be a pale shadow of the threat they once were but, regardless of how weak or poor they are, we have told them they have protected status and must finish top 6 and never be relegated, regardless of their results.

    The moral hazard facing the rest of the league is accepting that we no longer compete in a league where the playing results are paramount. We are competing in a league which cannot sign up to the principles of fair play and sporting merit.

  • the long wait is over

    The online SPL fan survey is , perhaps deliberately , incomplete.

    Question 2 requires a fifth option.

    “Would you attend the home games of your team but not away games?”

  • Silas

    Apologies if I missed something, but I need some explanation;

    If a newco forms, and buys the assets of the tax dodgers, they must be a completely distinct entity from the old club, different ownership, different directors and so on.
    If this is not the case they remain liable for the debts.

    If a newco is allowed to take over the mempership place of rfc(IA), they must be viewed as a ‘new’ club with a clean sheet, otherwise they can be pursued for the unpaid debt.
    How then, can they be punished for the old club’s failure by points deduction?

    If they are paying a points penalty, they are not a distinctly seperate club, and may still be liable for the debt.

    Or maybe any new club entering the SPL by promotion will face a 10 point deduction to ‘even things up’?

  • Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo

    as requested last night

    As requested last night

    Braun shaver – Am – Dm Am . Dm – G E – E5 (repeat)

    Dig if you will the picture
    Of Campbell and Neil in a tryst
    Tax debt from the brothers trustees
    for a few pound sterling
    Can you resructure this?

    Dream if you can a courtyard
    The future all clouded with doom
    Animals strike curious proposals
    They feel the heat
    The heat of a judicial review

    How can you just leave me liquidated?
    Alone in a world that’s so cold? (So cold)
    Maybe my tax is too demanding
    Maybe I’m thick like my father too fold
    Maybe you’re just like my mother
    She’s never satisfied (She’s never satisfied)
    Why do we scream at each other?
    This is what it sounds like
    When huns die

    Vouch if you can for my tax break
    or I´ll never make it inside
    You’ve got to revise the SPL handbook
    Or we will blame you
    that the huns have died

    How can you just leave me liquidated?
    Alone in a world so cold? (World so cold)
    Maybe my tax is too demanding
    Maybe I’m thick like my father too fold
    Maybe you’re just like my mother
    She’s never satisfied (She’s never satisfied)
    Why do we scream at each other?
    This is what it sounds like
    When huns die

    How can you just leave me liquidated?
    Alone in a world that’s so cold? (A world that’s so cold)
    Maybe my tax is too demanding (Maybe, maybe I’m thick my father)
    Maybe I’m thick like my father too fold (Ya know we will fold)
    Maybe you’re just like my mother (Maybe you’re just like my mother)
    She’s never satisfied (She’s never, never satisfied nay wonder)
    Why do we scream at each other? (Why do we scream? Why?)
    This is what it sounds like

    When huns die
    When huns die (huns die, huns die)
    When huns die (huns die, huns die)

    Don’t Cry (Don’t Cry)

    When huns die
    When huns die
    When huns die

    When huns die (huns die, huns die, huns die)
    Don’t cry
    Salmond don’t cry
    Don’t cry
    Don’t cry

    TAFKARFCiaCSC

  • Paul67

    Vmhan, indeed.

    TinyTim, it doesn’t stop a Newco (nor did I say this!), but without Newco, TV, sponsorship and ticket income from Rangers fans would all drop. The game needs money.

    SFFS, aye, one from the back of the rack.

    pggtips2, dream on. At every turn Celtic have said they can survive without Rangers. To claim the exact opposite is… interesting. I perhaps have the advantage of better access to the club than you, but still!

    Celtic must stand together now more than ever. Deep seated attempts (however futile) to split the Celtic Movement should be repelled, although obviously CQN remains open to anyone with that aim.

    SuperSutton, I would expect some clubs to take other proposals forward.

    ASonOfDan, I hear you.

    paulsatim, no.

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