After many years of speculation and debate, former Rangers owner, Craig Whyte, and founding father of newco Rangers, Charles Green, have been detained by police and are due to appear in court connected to the “alleged fraudulent acquisition” of Rangers assets, which were sold after the club failed to prevent a liquidator being appointed.
Joint administrators for Rangers, Paul Clark and David Whitehouse, then employed by Duff and Phelps, have also been detained in connection with the case.
Let’s get the rules clear from the off:
Anyone charged with a crime is entitled to a fair trial. They should not be subject to public comment which is likely to prejudice their ability to receive a fair trial. Don’t let anything of this nature appear on CQN.
You can discuss the issue, and you can discuss consequences of similar-sounding hypothetical cases, but unless you are cited to as a juror, don’t try to convict anyone.
The events surrounding Rangers liquidation and the subsequent asset purchase took place over three years ago. That this case has now found such momentum suggests the police are following a strong lien of enquiry, and have overcome whatever inertia which can sometimes affect white-collar crime.
We don’t know what is alleged fraudulently took place. The role of the administrators to carry out their duties on behalf of creditors is clearly established. That said, plenty of lateral is afforded to administrators (although increasing payroll by trying to sign Daniel Cousin raised eyebrows).
Exactly how Sevco Scotland Ltd (now The Rangers Football Club Ltd) were able to buy Rangers assets (for £5.5m) when the company who successfully bid for the assets was Sevco 5088 Ltd, has remained an open question since Craig Whyte claimed a controlling interest in Sevco 5088 Ltd.
Whatever the nature of the police charges, there is one overarching fact which Scottish football should be alert to.
Any company, football club or otherwise, which relies on assets that were criminally acquired to go about its business cannot continue to operate with those assets.
In this instance, the stadium, training ground, intellectual property, balls, nets and goalposts were all acquired by the company now known as The Rangers Football Club Ltd.
The consequences of this one are so massive several well-informed people suspected it would never get this far. But the day has come.
Even if all charges are dropped or allegations found to be false, there will still be immediate and real consequences. How would you, for example, go about raising money for a company with this hanging over it? Newco needs money, and they need to convince investors that the club did not start by criminally acquiring its football stadium.
Good luck with that.
I see in some places a fallacy persists that the SFA found Craig Whyte fit and proper to be a director of a football club. They did no such thing. The responsibility for ensuring Whyte’s fitness in 2011 lay with the Rangers board of directors, including Dave King and Paul Murray. The SFA have no powers to intercede or prevent a club from appointing any director it chooses.
Earlier this year Dave King took the unusual step of asking for prior-clearance that his appointment would not be found contrary to SFA rules (presumably due to his criminal convictions), before being appointed a director, but this was at King’s discretion. There is no SFA Fit and Proper test, the SFA do not clear or otherwise sanction any club director prior to appointment, this is the job of the club itself. Dave King, Paul Murray but most of all, Sir David Murray, take a bow.
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NEGANON2 on 2ND SEPTEMBER 2015 10:47 PM
Natnow it’s the iPad spell checker thing. Hate it. But doesn’t change what i meant.
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I know mate – was only trying to bring a grain of levity to proceedings. :-)
There’s room for laughing at the huns and examining our own failings. No-one’s ever stopped anyone from expressing an opinion on CQN (unless rules have been broken) as far as I’m aware.
But you catch more flies with sugar than vinegar.
Went to buy the Hoops top for to take on holiday,
asked for my usual size XL,
not even close to fitting me,
either the jersey has shrunk or the gut has put on a right few pounds,
not a happy chappy I must say
Ok SFTB
Pl said originally and was quoted on multiple occasions by Paul67, that every penny made on transfers would be spent on the tam. After aidens transfer Paul went in the huff and after that it because every penny would be invested in the club.
You my friend tried to reinvent all this earlier.
Do you deny it?
I also loved the bit about strengthening after every transfer window. The word try may have been used. But are you really saying that Peter is trying.
I thin you have a credibility gap here
GORDYBHOY64 on 2ND SEPTEMBER 2015 10:55 PM
Went to buy the Hoops top for to take on holiday,
asked for my usual size XL,
not even close to fitting me,
either the jersey has shrunk or the gut has put on a right few pounds,
not a happy chappy I must say
—————————————————-
The Celtic jersey does not shrink mate, so…errr…. :-)
SFTB to be clear PLs later quotes from above were preceded by different ones.
It disgusts me that this history is now being overridden by you and others.
SFTB
You showed that you lacked accounting knowledge the other night and how cash reserves can be manipulated at year end.
You have again tonight.
£21M Profit made on the last 2 years before accounting for frazer and vigil cash less the biggest spend in the last 14 years. How is this reinvested again?
Do me a favour, and print off the last 2 years accounts and I will show you how they can be manipulated to the reader.
As I said the other night if you want to believe then up to you.
Take care
HH
CRC
Doc
Petition signed
Catch you all later so Nytol
Hail Hail
From memory………..
The bulk of the payment for the transfer of Aiden McGeady arrived long after Aiden left.
One year? Eighteen months?
Doc,
petition signed,
absolutely heartbreaking pictures on the news tonight
Cowiebhoy
Will try to discover the problem tomorrow. It may be related to the volume of traffic in the site especially over the last three days.
We were worried that it couldn’t cope as it maxed out the night we posted the Denayer story ( it was happening by the way).
The additional traffic plus those ads on the site will pay for an even faster CQN very soon.
The last time CQN had over 200,000 users in a month was in June 2012. The month they died. We have doubled the audience and August was a record month for the blog.
Thanks to everyone who bought a signed copy of Caesar & The Assassin over the past few days. All orders are on their way. If you want a copy click on the Bookstore link or check Celtic Quick News on Amazon. Not many signed copies left and we won’t be getting any more.
David Murray must be a worried man. What was that about UTTERING?
Doc
Signed, cheers mate.
Natknow,
no seriously,thought NB had amended sizes when they got the contract,
my mrs was in knots watching me try to get the top on
• sipsini on 2nd September 2015 7:46 pm
Lennybhoy…
Personally, I think it’s ludicrous that Green & Whyte are getting persecuted by the press.
Craigybhoy came to the rescue whilst sdm wanted a way out £1…he did his best to keep the club going, alas, it wasn’t enough.
*and he would have if it had not been for the ineptitude of mcsleekit, still a legned tae
Winning Captains
Just trying to keep you up to date bhud
Issue just started again Monday I think
Hail Hail, and definately Nytol
CowieBhoy, GordyBhoy64, well done.
Someone put up an image on FB or Twitter the other day that resonated with me.
We were founded by immigrants back in 1888, we should welcome them, they will enhance our society.
HT, good Mhan.
Of all the posters on here, I would take Auldheid’s word. Same for BRTH. I have been involved for over 25 years in local planning and the capacity for skullduggery therein. You sift throughthousands of words to try and pin down a fact. Planning departments view you with suspicion, local politicians/councillors even more so. So, to try and pin down the SFA and the shenanigans with Sevco takes a bit of doing. Scotland is the most influenced part of the UK when it comes down to the Masons and their ilk. Anyone can stand on the sidelines and shout. It’s the players on the park who get the result.
Good evening Neganon
I believe the recent made up analogy is that we ‘aspire’ to come out stronger each transfer window., not ‘try’. :-)
Hope you are well?
And remember all about opinions and viewpoints. So that means nobody is right :-)
HH
CRC
WINNING CAPTAINS on 2ND SEPTEMBER 2015 11:02 PM
May I take this opportunity to thank you and others for all the work you do in providing us with this marvellous organ.
:-)
Particularly for those of us who are geographically out of the loop.
A godsend it is.
Thanks.
.
Touch the Screen..
Summa
• Doc on 2nd September 2015 11:05 pm
CowieBhoy, GordyBhoy64, well done.
Someone put up an image on FB or Twitter the other day that resonated with me.
We were founded by immigrants back in 1888, we should welcome them, they will enhance our society.
*hate tae be pedantic but those who crossed the Irish Sea including my grandparents’ were NOT immigrants or refugees, they were just citizens of the UK moving to another part of the country to better themselves, no different than Scots that moved to Liverpool, Manchester, London etc ,
Right bhoys n ghirls
Off for the night, DOC CRC speak tomorrow for launch of badges n cufflinks :)
HH
Tontine Tim, they were refugees.
I made no mention of immigrants.
They were fleeing a famine, internally displaced people are refugees, sorry mhate, you are incorrect.
Bundoran Bhoy, til tomorrow:-)
Hey celticrollercoaster. Hope you are well.
Some of our fellow posters are being very careful in choosing their words and seem to have forgotten previous debates. Funny eh.
I agree no right. But far too many lies on this site.
To follow auldheids approach. Why do you think they are lying……
Oops, I bleed in did, I did mean to type refugees, point remains valid if my pros does not.
Did someone mention Lunch :-)
(Ii was letting the Dhogs oooot )
Also, in the 19th century, to travel from Ireland to Scotland or England would have been to migrate, perhaps not across an international border, but over a long distance in context.
Lunch, Friday? Would have to be after 1pm.
Text me tomorrow.
MadMitch @ 10:35 pm
SFTB
What point are you trying to make?
We are lucky to be where we are and PL is worth more?
How about I make my own points and you make yours. If I had wanted to say something as daft and banal as that I am more than capable of doing so. I am on record, for years on here, as saying that all CEO’s (not just Celtic’s) are overpaid and the Lee Iacocca myth that saw executive pay factor up beyond all business sense is part of the problem with modern finance. However, even if PL was paid half or less of his current remunerations, Celtic’s fortunes would change not one whit. We are wasting time on the wrong target.
The world you live has too many cap doffers for my liking.
The world you see is the one you imagined. I have never asked you to doff a cap. I will plead guilty to saying that many CQNrs should take a bit more pleasure in following Celtic.
We are looking at crowds of 30K this season.
So if that is the case who do we sell to balance the books?
Think we already sold him. However, we are fortunate in possessing many fine footballers (Gordon, Bitton, Forrest, Johansen- if he recovers, Brown and Armstrong) who could fetch fees if we need to sell. There is disillusionment but we have both been on CQN for a long time and I have been reading the promise/ threat of 30k crowds for a long time. When we are out of CL ties and not playing Aberdeen or a dead team, this level of attendance has been with us for a while, as it was during our 9 in a row with the Lions and also throughout the 80s and 90s. The MON era was the blip. This is back to standard until we get a change of venue/competition.
We are now well into a circle of despair with the future looking increasingly sterile.
The club is badly run from top to bottom.
Scottish football is in a bad state and we are getting dragged down/hindered by it. I think despair is hyperbole because, amidst the bleak outlook, I still get joy from my club.
From PL and his bonus to the continuous string of people who can’t work a cash register.
Standards are slip shod throughout the club and yet still they clap.
I don’t know what your referring to here, and you may well be right, but, despite constant jibes to the contrary, I have only ever clapped players and managers. The only time a suit gets applause is if they are part of a flag raising team. That’s just me being polite.
You ask how we can move forward, my view is do the opposite of the current “cash cow / bleed the support until the pips squeak / the Irish Raj and his money are sacrosanct” policy has a number of issues that need further work.
We need a growth agenda.
That is a real growth agenda and not a bonus growth agenda.
We need a turn to our roots and a focus on the charity side of things.
Target a £5mill pa income to our charitable endeavours.
Get the first team training back to the East End.
Put more focus on the youths / development team.
You are one of the few, MM, who have put forward alternative suggestions and I’d support some of what you list, though I remain sceptical about the value of a reserve team stadium and about speculating in a glass ceiling hamstrung environment. I am also wary of bringing the squad back from Lennoxtown so more people can watch training. I think there is a value in letting these men train in peace and have their bust ups and bad behaviour away from prying media (social media included). The odd occasion in order to let young fans connect would be good but not regular. Can you imagine the scenes if the entitled had turned up at training after the Malmo result?
Increase their stature so that we actually know who they are.
You want bigger players? :-) What’s wrong with Messi? What’s wrong with your eyesight? :-)
Put a rocket up the GB’s erse.
Either they are CL class or they disband and return to the St Als common room where they belong.
Again, the GB have been much more of a good thing than bad. I don’t care much what school they went to- the home atmosphere without them would depress anyone. Just last weekend when Blackett came on to the pitch at half time, he had only managed half a sentence before a fellow near me shouted out “Speak up Ya Dick!” and I assure you there was not a trace of humour in his “welcome to CP, Tyler!”
Long hard season ahead.
It will now be full on sniping from the SMSM.
We need unity and hope not board AstroTurf telling us how lucky we are.
And while I am on it — P67 you should be ashamed of yourself for being the conduit of all this naked board propaganda.
Quick news no more — second rate board propaganda more like.
There is sniping from within and we need to acknowledge that. Unity is going to take a bit longer. People have alternative views. Calling it as Board Loyalists or Perpetual Revolutionaries is just juvenile jibing- we all do it but it is not grown up talk or thinking. It certainly has no place amongst a call for unity.
SFTB
So Buy Better rather than Buy Bigger is both a fairly meaningless distinction and a forlorn pious aspiration. Unless you can operationalise that aspiration- set terms and guidance to it- that reduces the tendency to buy wrong, then it is meaningless. The challenge is always to set the operational terms. How much should we spend? How many players should we buy? What markets should we shop in? What age of player should we prioritise? When those hard questions have been posed to those who say that “I just want better buys – and maybe a little more spend”, I ask for specifics and I do not get replies. If £2.5m is too little, how much is a little more? Do we really believe a £3m buy brings us into a qualitatively different tier of player? £4m?
—
Ok dude. Here goes.
1. I’ll be as brief as possible cos I should be in bed already.
2. And cos you’re fighting on all fronts like cqn’s very own Bruce Lee
3. And despite your sometimes mildly tetchy online demeanour I’ve met you and you’re grand!
But……..
a) despite being a pretty pragmatic and happy-ish happy clapper I think I’m correct to give it ‘j’accuse’ in terms of our recruitment of forwards. Our success rate contrasts poorly with our recruitment of midfielders, defenders and keepers.
b) you cite how Balde is now doing well at Metz as evidence that he’s a good(ish) player. I think the same could be said of scepovic, Rasmussen, the fridge laddie and perhaps pukki too. Yet none were successfully integrated into our team. Ergo a failure to match requirements with attributes? Therefore a failure in recruitment surely?
c) as for demanding specific KPIs from me and others who ask for better Return on Investmention on our investment in forwards. I’ll confess that I spend too much of my day working then being a daddy taxi and maker of packed lunches to provide huge detail. (And I’d rather hoped someone at CP would have done that already). But here’s a couple to start with – someone who’ll come in and rummel (sp) up opposing defenders and keepers and put (or closely assist) the emplacement of the ball in the onion bag on a regular basis.
d) people who tend to score more than twice a season at their current clubs and aren’t welded to the Physio couch are also moreiky to be more useful!
Might ya auld bassa!
;-)
HH jamesgang
I was in the Marys Meals shop in Dunblane today dropping off two massive boxes of brand new, in the wrapper school bags to send to Malawi for the kids who eat from the CQN kitchens.
When Paul put up the post a few weeks ago asking for old school bags, I was contacted by a CQNer who has a client Witt an online bag store. They said they’d like to contribute and sent the two boxes.
We will put a wee piece about this at the end of an article over the next few days.
Anyway, the ladies in the Mary’s Meals shop we’re delighted with the bags and couldn’t speak highly enough of CQN and everything you lot have done.
Open for comment and why please,
Islam Feruz was available on loan and is a striker.
He went to Hibs.
Should we have given him another shot?
MACJAY1 FOR NEIL LENNON on 2ND SEPTEMBER 2015 11:10 PM
WINNING CAPTAINS on 2ND SEPTEMBER 2015 11:02 PM
May I take this opportunity to thank you and others for all the work you do in providing us with this marvellous organ.
——–
Apols but the first time I read that I ‘heard’ you saying it in the voice of Kenneth Williams.
I read it again and suddenly you’d taken on the body of Hattie Jacques.
You are awful. But I like you!
Not sure I’ll sleep tonight.
HH jamesgang
Tontine T
Indeed they were refugees and the only reason they wouldn’t be classed as immigrants would be because of Britain’s colonial rule in Ireland since 1171.
NA2
I personally love all the hun stuff, the more pain those cheating supremisist bastards endure the better imo.
We can do sfa about what is happening at the club, nada, Res 12 should, imo, been the catalyst that got the suits and the support united.
It’s taken much work from a few shareholders to get to where it is today, in spite of the suits, as has been relayed to us, the club were happy enough to accept the sfa’s version of events, and that everything was above board.
The suits give not a jot for the support, all they care about is your money, they are indeed clueless when it comes to running a football club, no direction whatsoever, happy to accept anything as long as they don’t rock the boat, there have been many opportunities to at least try to expose the sfa, and they have done feck all, they care not for the game of football, only their egos.
Feck them.
HH
Don’t get carried away Lhads n Lhassies bout the demise of sevco.. the daily rag are still laughin at us pumped oot o the CL and our failure to sign a Centre Forward despite pocketin over a billion pounds in transfer fees in the last couple of season.. and radio rag announced several times tonight they will NOT be takin any calls on the ‘allegations’ surrounding sevco.
They got away wi it once, twice, three times… they’ll get away wi it again.
I’m just so proud to be a Celtic Supporter. Hail Hail, God Bless You All.
Neganon @ 10.56
“Pl said originally and was quoted on multiple occasions by Paul67, that every penny made on transfers would be spent on the tam. After aidens transfer Paul went in the huff and after that it because every penny would be invested in the club.
You my friend tried to reinvent all this earlier.
Do you deny it?”
Yes. of course I do. I provided a quote from the recent past and said that this was the one being cast up as talking about the team. You have claimed, without supplying evidence (I do not doubt it will be available) that it WAS said sometime before the quote I supplied.
There is no re-invention here. If you can find a quote from (when? 2006-9?) that says team, is it even relevant to today’s discussion if he has been saying for the past few years that we re-invest in the club. That is the current claim and the current strategy. That is what needs tackled not some out-of-date quote that you have yet to supply.
“I also loved the bit about strengthening after every transfer window. The word try may have been used. But are you really saying that Peter is trying.”
Of course people are trying. Do you really think there are Celtic fans out there who just turn up to do the club harm?
You came close to admitting there that you were wrong. Does that make you a liar and a teller of half-truths? If I was an evil Celtic fan I might be inclined to respond in the same language you did.
“I think you have a credibility gap here”
I’ll take my chances in the credibility market and let others judge. I won’t declare myself the winner.