On the long walk along London Road after the game on Saturday I overhead, “Any manager playing one up front clearly doesn’t have confidence in his team”. I hear variations on this quite often. It’s not true. In fact, I watched the hot favourites for the England and Wales (see what I did there) Premier League beat their main rivals with this formation last night.
Playing one up front can be as much of an attacking formation as playing two, or even three strikers. Any formation, 4 -2-3-1, 4-4-2 or 3-5-2 is not in itself overtly attacking or defensive. Even the often ridiculed 4-6-0 can be expansive.
There are a few ways to score goals. Martin O’Neill’s Celtic mastered the set-piece. For a period, a considerable percentage of our goals came either this way, or from cross balls. There’s also the classic long ball to a ‘big one up front’ who can knock it down to a penalty box poacher. Both these plays exploit the advantages of direct play, which in itself can break packed defences.
The modern game increasingly relies on alternatives, specifically creating space and movement. Don’t crowd the box, drag defenders out to allow pacey support players to break beyond them. At the very elite level, one of the game’s greatest ever goal-scorers, Christiano Ronaldo, exploits this space magnificently from the wings. Our own top striker, Leigh Griffiths, played a similar role before being handed the No. 9 role at Celtic. I suspect his best position isn’t, in fact, as a No. 9.
We need many things at Celtic, most specifically a defensive mid (another formation story), but we don’t need to revert to a 4-4-2. We need players who understand the importance of space in the final third, and who can exploit it.
Ronny has recruited a flood of wide players since arriving 18 months ago with very little success. Which has had an acute cost.
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I wish it was Sunday now
Bored with this Christmas nonsense already:)
Bring on the wee huns.
HH
the_huddle on 23rd December 2015 11:09 am
________________________________________________
Fergus also said that, he wanted the huns back in the top league with Celtic.
Every one of them would sell you to the devil.
“The Game, The Game Is Over…The Rebels Have Gone.”
HH
Neganon2
A) P&O Ferries
B) penguins
C) Camino de Santiago
You pick.
If, The huns are back in the same league as us next season…what will the clubs narrative be ?
“Oh, we can’t comment because the res:12 case is still going through the courts.”
…will the dj-guy be playing a new song over the pa-system…
…”Roll me over in the clover do it again!”
KevJungle
Ok. Cheers for the reply.
I hope SFTB does not mind me reposting this. Those who believe facts are more important than opinion will probably enjoy it. Those who believe opinion is king might, albeit it subliminally, question their stance a fraction.Anyway, here it is:
“SETTING FREE THE BEARS FOR RES. 12 & OSCAR KNOX on 23RD DECEMBER 2015 9:35 AM
The narrative is that downsizing and limiting our ambitions started just after Seville and contributed to MON leaving because he wanted to drive faster.
Posters are now claiming that view is vindicated because we have not been in a CL group for the past two years
We made Europa League last 32 and lost narrowly to Inter last year, so basically, we have one year of abject failure (this one) to add to season 2010-11 as another abject Euro season and 2005/6 as the Artmedia season.
So, after MON’s 4 successful Euro seasons, we have had 7 good Euro seasons and 3 bad ones with a moderate one in 2009/10 that can be put in either category.
Even if we count it as 7 good and 4 bad seasons, it remains hardly compelling as evidence of a terminal irreversible decline. The fact that 2001-2005 was a successful “blip” in a mediocre record from 1981 to 2000 does not add any weight to the view that we have been rubbish since 2005.
During a period when we were achieving that high water mark of last 16 CL appearances three times, the narrative was the same- the fitba’s rubbish, the manager is a dud, the club is downsizing and lacking ambition and we are headed for crowds of 20k.
Miserabilists have produced a relentless tide of negativity towards this club during both good and bad periods of recent history. This year, there is justified cause for complaint about our Euro record (none at all about our domestic position) so there is some rational for them to fill their boots and wallow, at least until we restore a healthy lead in the league and reach the latter cup stages winning, at least one, hopefully.
However, I predict too that there will be many fallow seasons ahead as economics prohibit us from being a meaningful participator at the top table- so Good News there, eh? There will be plenty more opportunities to complain.
But, spare me the view that “we predicted downsizing and we have been proven right” because you have been saying it since 2005 and I remember 3 great Euro seasons since then and 4 other very satisfactory ones. I also remember finishing a long way behind the dead team in the league and behind the likes of Aberdeen and Motherwell too. We were 3rd in 89, 5th in 90, 3rd in 91,92 and 93, and dropped to 4th in 94 and 95.
But, though that was a mere 20 years ago, apparently we are the worst Celtic team in 30, 40 or 50 years. Are you convinced of that? Are you convinced that we are in the same kind of trouble that we were in between 89 and 95? Really?? “
GlassTwoThirdsFull
_____________________
Hail Hail fella.
Off oot stuff tae dae….
Merry Christmas to all Tims.
Two guys dominating the board this morning, both admit to not going to see Celtic and telling us we’re all gullible fools for being on a Celtic board supporting Celtic. Takes some gall but at least they are consistent.
I think I’ll post on the board everyday that the earth if flat, I’ll be wrong but at least I’ll be consistent…
As it’s the season of goodwill, I’m just going to laugh at them instead…
ps. The earth is flat…
Right a Wee bit of shopping to do, have a great day all and HH
POLICE have spoken to Celtic director Ian Livingston over anti-semitic abuse he received online from some of the club’s supporters.
Officers quizzed the Tory Peer after he laid bare abuse he received for backing Conservative tax cuts earlier this year .
The Tory peer, who carries the title ‘Lord Livingston of Parkhead’, has been in the line of fire since voting in favour of the Government’s controversial cuts which have since been abandoned.
Celtic fans had called for the 51-year-old to resign, with around 10,000 signing an online petition calling for his removal.
However the director was voted back in at last month’s AGM at which Hoops chairman Ian Bankier branded some abuse received by his fellow board member from some fans online as “criminally racist”.
Police today confirmed they had spoken to those involved in the matter although no complaint has been made regarding the abuse.
A statement from Police Scotland said: “Officers were in contact with those involved to discuss the matter. However, to date, no complaint has been received by police.”
Which begs the question why did the police investigate it ?
HH
Neganon
You should start a self awareness course for dumbassed Tims like me who can’t understand the situation and needs visionary leaders like you to lead us by our compliant nose rings to the wonderland of awareness which you have.
Thanks mate for showing me the light, you are my Messiah, my Saviour…
There’s a name for that you know, ask yer therapist…
Jungle Jim Hot Smoked – I didn’t see that post from “SETTING FREE THE BEARS FOR RES. 12 & OSCAR KNOX on 23RD DECEMBER 2015 9:35 AM – Thanks for reposting it. I might go back and see what the responses if any were from the worst Celtic team ever posters were.
I would rather have now every day of the week than go back to those days, but we had the jungle then so everything must have been ok…
West end of East End.
What`s this you say? You would be wrong if you said the world is flat?
Of course it is flat! How would we play snooker if it wasn`t?
JJ
Ronny will be better at Subbuteo than he is at Substitutions….
Ah starry plough. So here’s the thing. Nothing I am saying is rocket science or particularly clever. but to see it you need to free yourself of that which you love. To see things as they actually are. During the referendum I was attacked left right and centre for claiming Scotland was institutionally racist. That was because love of country was blinding people. Love of Celtic is also blinding many.
But of course it’s easier to claim that the person telling you this is mentally ill because it excuses self ignorance. It’s a classic act of denial (Auldheid did the same last night). These are all very human traits.
BCW are those choices places for our date?
My view on Ronny and why we need to make a change
I think I’m becoming obsessed – about winning the league
Should celtic not win the league – how many will continue to give Ronny time ??
How do we measure our manager ??
My measurement is
a) Qualify for the CL 2 out of 3 years
b) Win the league
Should there be anyone that is comfortable not winning the league “because our manager needs time” then I would argue your aspirations are very low
So from my measurement he is not doing well and I would like to see a change
Many on here argue agains my view (and I respect and sometimes envy their loyalty to Ronny)
Today Ronny is quoted as saying “I expect a close title race” unfortunately so do I
And this is the problem
We should be in a more positive position in the league (more than 1 point and a game in hand ahead) – the fact
that we are not is probably a true reflection on our team
So fast forward to the start of Feb – we go to Aberdeen !!
What happens mid Feb and we are – for example – 3 points behind Aberdeen ???
Not winning the league would be the lowest point in supporting Celtic for 50 years
Yes we are favourites to win the league – but the fact that we are not in a more comfortable position makes me nervous
Finally (the paranoia is back) imagine the referee decisions the honest mistakes would come back every man ref and his dog would go out of their way to help Celtic lose the league
This is why I am becoming obsessed about winning the league this is why we need to make a change
67ECW
West End of East End
Well if the earth is flat, it’s definitely PL, DD and RD’s fault. I am 100% sure that it was round when Martin O’Neil was our manager.
This isn’t just downsizing – it’s rampant deflation !!!
wholettheairoutCSC
Green Man
I hope your correct and ronny picks Leigh up front with stokes on the left
I think the much maligned Joe Hanson will be in the team with kc dropping out
Love will tear us apart…
The past is thepast and the only thing we can control is the road ahead – so come on Fans (& supporters), players, Management and Board – lets get our Sh*T together and move forward.
Apologies for sounding like the broken record but I really want Lawwell/DD to come out with some now and give some leadership in the form of a genuine communication of what the plan is going forward.
We all want Celtic to succeed and thrive, we feel the same way about the players the manager and the Board (it really must be Christmas!!)…we have Good will to all Bhoys?
I don’t think it takes much to tip the balance from whre we are (dispondent, disapointed and pessimistic) to creating a positive vibe.
One thing that doesn’t work for me is status quo and no communication.
The fans are demanding of the players and the Board – happy for lawwell/DD to lay their expectations down on fans.
Radio silence gets us no where. I don’t expect the Board to react to every whim of fan disattisfaction but I don feel the time is right to come out and give us some hope and goals to confirm an ambition we can all get behind.
Deep down every mineshafter wants to be a happy clapper – but we need something to believe in.
KevJungle 11.24
A wee heads up.
The guys in court feature in Res12.
So watch out for Celtic making a statement that then prejudices or is used as an excuse to prejudice (this being the country where as you remind us today justice is not served) the court case.
I tell you in advance so you can get your complaint ready if Celtic are daft enough not to stay quiet.
A wee Christmas pressie for you. :)
67 EUROPEAN CUP WINNERS
———+———–
I don’t think anyone would expect Ronny to keep his job if we don’t win the league, don’t think I’ve seem one poster say that.
Most are saying you can’t sack a guy who won the league last year and is top this year.
We are going to be sacking a lot of future Celtic managers if the are judged on qualifying for the CL twice every 3 seasons
Do you know what I love about statistics… when you chose to use them you can also be very selective on what statistics you publish in support of your argument? Obviously you don’t publish any statistic that is going to boot your argument in the balls and you don’t methodically and impartially analyse to the end of the statistic branch unless in isolation and collectively the subjective data garnered supports your viewpoint. Ignore anything that doesn’t, just publish regardless, nobody has the time or the inclination to refute the balance and interpretation of the ‘facts’ (sic) presented.
If done deliberately it is lying by omission.
Don’t ever tell the whole story if it actually rubbishes the point that you are trying to carry.
Imagine we had the money of Man Utd, Chelsea and Man City? we’d get the manager and players of our choice then…………….and of course, win the league and CL.
“He always beat me at Subbuteo. Cos he flicked to kick an I ddn’t know”
UndertonesCSC
Anybody that says this is the worst team in the last 20 or 30 years must have short memories. I am not a Ronny hater far from it I really like the guy but I don’t think he’s the man for the job anymore. In the last few months we have went backwards since last season the high pressing game has gone and going forward we are slow and ponderous and players are played out of position regularly. I think he has lost quite a few players in the dressing room and I don’t feel he can turn that around. If Ronny does go on and win the treble and turn it round I will be a happy man to have been proved wrong .Hail Hail and here’s hoping for 2 victories on Sunday and Wednesday.
Neganon2 : “Nothing I am saying is rocket science or particularly clever.”
Now you tell me!
JJ
TBJ
Anthony Stokes has got a point to prove.
Give him the chance to do it.
I think you might be right with SJ, imo he is better than CMc.
You cant go from being player of the year to being gash….SJ can do it, he just needs to cut out the nonsense.
HH
Roman Abramovich will have to change Chelsea’s transfer strategy to make Diego Simeone the club’s next permanent manager as the Argentine would demand the final say over technical director Michael Emenalo on all incoming players.
The Chelsea owner has made Simeone one of his top targets, along with Pep Guardiola, to take over at Stamford Bridge at the end of the season, following last week’s decision to sack Jose Mourinho and install Guus Hiddink as caretaker manager.
Hiddink made himself popular with the Chelsea players on his first official day of working with them when he changed their Christmas plans to give them Boxing Day night with their families after the game against Watford in an attempt to improve a mood that became tense under Mourinho.
While Hiddink attempts to save Chelsea’s season, Abramovich must look for his next permanent appointment and faces a dilemma over Atlético Madrid manager Simeone, who would immediately want at least five new players to follow him as part of a Stamford Bridge rebuild.
A source close to Simeone told The Telegraph that he is extremely happy at Atlético and will only consider quitting Spain for Chelsea if all of his conditions are met. The final say over all incoming transfers would be a “non-negotiable”.
Emenalo plays a big role in Chelsea’s transfer business and Mourinho even admitted he had nothing to do with the summer signing of central defender Papy Djilobodji.
Abramovich essentially backed Emenalo over Mourinho by not signing any of the big-name outfield stars the Portuguese wanted in the summer, other than Radamel Falcao on loan, and then holding the 52-year-old to account for the abysmal Premier League title defence.
With no permanent manager at Chelsea, Emenalo will take sole charge of the club’s January transfer window plans and chase targets such as Leicester City striker Jamie Vardy and Shakhtar Donetsk attacking midfielder Alex Teixeira.
But Simeone would not stand for any Emenalo signings in the mould of Djilobodji or Michael Hector, who was immediately loaned back to Championship club Reading.
Simeone works closely with Atlético sporting director José Luis Caminero but retains the final say and right of veto over any incoming signings and the 45-year-old would not be prepared to give that up.
That would put Abramovich in the tricky position of either having to choose between Emenalo and Simeone, or attempting to negotiate some sort of compromise that suits both parties.
If Abramovich refuses Simeone’s demands, or cannot convince Guardiola to snub Manchester City, he would turn his attention to Italy coach Antonio Conte or Juventus manager Massimiliano Allegri.
Hiring Simeone would be an expensive process. The former midfielder earns £4.4 million net at Atlético and his buy-out clause, which would have to be met, is just under £15 million.
Abramovich would also have to make big funds available to Simeone, who would want the freedom to make major changes to the first-team squad.
Although he has previously shown an interest in managing in the Premier League, Simeone does not speak English.
Peter Kenyon, the former Chelsea chief executive, could play a major part in any negotiations between the Blues and Atlético, as he is an official adviser to the Spanish club’s board.
Hiddink held a low-key first full training session yesterday, as he discussed the remaining targets for the season in a 3pm team meeting and then put the Chelsea squad through their paces with assistants Steve Holland and Eddie Newton. After Watford, Chelsea face Manchester United at Old Trafford on Dec 28.
Meanwhile, Chelsea and Vitesse Arnhem have been cleared of having an improper relationship by the Dutch football association.
The independent probe established no undue influence by Chelsea over the Dutch club, to whom they have been regularly loaning players over the past five years, following allegations by former owner Merab Jordania that Chelsea heavily influenced policy at the club.
Kitalba
Do you think SFTB was `lying by omission` when he said ,`Even if we count it as 7 good and 4 bad seasons,`.
Indeed, do you think he gave an unfair account of Celtic failure and success over the period?
JJ
PS In many cases, particularly in the area of Politics, I would very much agree with your general comment.
GORDON_J on 23RD DECEMBER 2015 12:13 PM
“He always beat me at Subbuteo. Cos he flicked to kick an I ddn’t know”
UndertonesCSC
Just as long as he didn’t pick before flicking.
– See more at: http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/in-defence-of-the-4-2-3-1/comment-page-10/#comment-2742316
Sitting on my bedside cabinet currently are 2 tickets for Tynecastle, 4 for Stranraer (which will be 7 within the hour, 5 for Tannadice and 6 for Hampden.
Despite this, because I’ve asked questions of Celtic Plc and Ronny’s ability as a manager, I’m not a real Celtic supporter according to some on here.
Pathetic pish CSC
Oh well…….
Anthony Stokes. Not his biggest fan but I fancy him to be a bigger thorn in Hearts’ side than Ciftci…
Also, does he not have a reasonably good record against Hearts?
Celtic have recalled Ryan Christie…
new article posted.
Ps Dena, Almore, Eddie and DD you’re sorted.
Clarification – will return in January
GIGGSY on 23RD DECEMBER 2015 10:55 AM
Interesting debate regarding attendances.
When writing something else last night I was reminded of a conversation Fergus McCann had with Jack McGinn. It’s quoted on the Celtic Wiki.
“But the stadium was a tool. We had to have a season-ticket base. Jack McGinn [board member] was saying, “We don’t want season-ticket holders, they are nothing but trouble.” Well, I just couldn’t live with that marketing philosophy at all.The answer is that you have got to fill the park. The average crowd was 28,000 and we built a 60,000- seat stadium. How smart was that? Well, it was the right thing to do.”
The season ticket base is now there. We have 38,000 – a figure that I would dispute – season ticket holders. Do we fufill the other part? Is the park full? No, and it’s nonsense to quote the average figure. This is distorted.
Winning Captains mention the other night about we should have built another tier on the main stand. That was just taking Fergus’s view a step further. A bold step.
The reality is that we are not filling the stadium. We have over 10,000 season ticket holders not bothering to turn up week in and week out. An astonishing figure. On Saturday thousands left well before the end because they knew there was no hope of an equaliser and a winner.
The club are failing to fill the stadium. They are failing a major business model need. They need to address the reasons for this. Address that and everything else will be in the right place
———-
Interesting post.
Before they address the problem they have to identify it. And have the will and means to do either.
BT mentioned folk on their phones during Saturday’s game. That is the perfect metaphor for the atmosphere all too often.
No champions league thrill. No Europa league kinda thrill. No existential battle for survival in our city against the FOD.
Replaced with no euro fare till next summer. And an insidious but dull battle waged against us by MIBs and hammer throwers.
I see the contrast when I play the wee mhan the old Tic goals of 10-15 years ago.
What to do? Am I seriously conflicted? Do I secretly or subconsciously long for the return of the old firm?
No. I want the FOD gone forever if possible, though I fear it won’t be so.
But into that void we as a club had to /have to create a new purpose or develop the one we have. The one that is ‘more than a club’.
Absolutely understand and respect auldheid’s comments on why CFC hierarchy have to be careful ref Res12 and related legal issues.
But that neither explains nor will ever exonerate the ‘sit down and behave yourselves’ ethos that seems to emanate from the board and principal shareholder.
The Kano Foundation maintains my Faith in CFC. So do the food collections. The Foundation. Wee Jay. Oscar. The Celtic Trust. And quite often the Green Brigade. These groups shouldn’t have to lead the way. Right now it feels like they’re all we’ve got.
HH jamesgang