Since Stewart Regan’s letter to the 93 SFA member clubs was uncovered by STV yesterday evening I’ve read what feels to me like unfounded concern at the news. Regan asked clubs to declare “any written agreement(s) falling within the scope of Article 12.3 which has/have not previously been lodged with the Scottish FA in the previous ten years, in respect of any current or former players of your club.”
The most pleasing point is that the letter was dated 9 March. A look at the chronology of events is perhaps useful.
Rangers troubles with HMRC have been public knowledge since 2010 but it was only on 22 February this year that questions were first raised (here, of course) as to whether the club registered the Employee Benefit Trust (EBT) payments with the SFA. Everyone knew Rangers players had EBTs, we knew HMRC were contesting that these should be taxed, but there was no reason to believe Rangers did not to declare them to the SFA (unless you count the “sniff test” on Sir David…).
The EBTs were noted in Rangers audited accounts so it appears clear that Rangers at least notionally believed they were both legal (which they were) and legally executed (which we will soon find out). When we took a shot in the dark on 22 February and posed the registration question, there was no reason to assume the SFA board had even considered the issue. I’m sure they hadn’t and like the rest of us, were caught cold by the question.
Earlier that day the SFA announced an inquiry into Rangers headed by Lord Nimmo Smith. His report was considered by the board on 8 March, when they presumably decided to send letters out to the member clubs the next day. In short, this issue has been active at the SFA every day since it was first raised.
Had we known this at the time I suspect our view of the (apparent) SFA inactivity would have been different. Maybe a PR lesson there.
Several friends and one brother have suggested that Stewart Regan’s letter is a prelude to an amnesty. I doubt this. The SFA chief exec does not have the authority to offer an amnesty and in his letter Regan says, “the Scottish FA reserves the right to refer any Club to the Compliance Officer, which might result in proceedings before the Judicial Panel”.
The letter is an attempt to establish if the problem is prevalent in one, or more than one club, a perfectly reasonable step at this stage. I’m guessing around 90 clubs will be able to respond within minutes.
As a result of this letter, the phoney war is over. Comments like “there were no double contracts” can no longer be reported as though they have some validity to questions over unregistered payments to players. Even those reporting from the back of the class will now have to recognise the validity of the questions we have been asking for weeks.
More on the nature of these questions later, specifically, is it cheating?
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The teacher said, “Let’s begin by reviewing some American history.
Who said ‘Give me Liberty, or give me Death’?”
She saw a sea of blank faces, except for Little Hodaiki a bright foreign
exchange student from Japan, who had his hand up: ‘Patrick Henry, 1775’, he
said.
‘Very good!’
Who said, ‘Government of the People, by the People, for the People, shall
not perish from the Earth?’
Again, no response except from Little Hodaiki: ‘Abraham Lincoln, 1863’.
‘Excellent!’ said the teacher continuing, ‘let’s try one a bit more
difficult…’
Who said, ‘Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for
your country?’
Once again, Hodaiki’s was the only hand in the air and he said:
‘John F. Kennedy, 1961’.
The teacher snapped at the class, ‘Class, you should be ashamed of
yourselves, Little Hodaiki isn’t from this country and he knows more about
our history than you do.’
She heard a loud whisper: ‘F . . k the Japs,’
‘Who said that? I want to know right now!’ she angrily demanded.
Little Hodaiki put his hand up, ‘General MacArthur, 1945.’
At that point, a student in the back said, ‘I’m gonna puke.’
The teacher glared around and asks, ‘All right! Now who said that!?’
Again, Little Hodaiki said, ‘George Bush to the Japanese Prime Minister,
1991.’
Now furious, another student yelled, ‘Oh yeah? Suck this!’
Little Hodaiki jumped out of his chair waving his hand and shouted to the
teacher, ‘Bill Clinton, to Monica Lewinsky, 1997!’
Now with almost mob hysteria someone said, ‘You little shit. If you say
anything else, I’ll kill you.’
Little Hodaiki frantically yelled at the top of his voice, “Michael Jackson
to the child witness testifying against him, 2004.’
The teacher fainted.
As the class gathered around the teacher on the floor, someone said, ‘Oh
shit, We’re screwed!’
Little Hodaiki said quietly, ‘Ally McCoist, 2012.’
Kit , not myth-making . just having an open discussion – something that doesn’t happen on the other side of the city.
Anywho’s , it does look like a red herring and , thanks to BQ , we played with a straight bat and managed to avoid any major problems.
How are you anyway ?
Sanna
Should we all sing “Hello, Hello, 9 in a row” on Sunday, in advance of thems getting stripped of their TAINTED titles? Or shall the only Hello, Hello chants be emanating from the odious three sides of the stadium?
RogueLeader, the Fit and Proper issue is difficult for the SFA to administer in advance of a takeover. Clubs can be bought and sold in a week. The SFA could investigate and not find the key evidence. All they can do is retrospectively take action agains the club.
TinyTim, Celtic made this a matter of record at their AGM in 2010. There are no outstanding issues.
jungle jam67, Celtic have no part to play in the investigation into Rangers and should respectfully observe that role as events unfold.
KJamBhoy, indeed.
EKBhoy, correct.
Adam, you have mail.
sannabhoy, indeed.
tobagostreet, ha!
excathedra44, suggestions that I open PL’s mail are greatly exaggerated! It would have been good to know earlier but would have been inappropriate for Celtic to comment.
seventyxseven, aye, we’ll see.
MWD, we’ll see.
ASonOfDan, there could be. Who knows?
pay the council hunscums
.
Sixteen roads to Golgotha on 21 March, 2012 at 12:24 said:
How sleep the brave:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-03-21/jim-stynes-state-funeral-date-confirmed/3904422?section=sport
RIP Jim Stynes.
…………….
Sixteen..
Thank You for posting that Link..I Posted yesterday of His Untimely Passing a Great Great Man..I’m Sure some of the Gaelic Bhoys on here know his Story..His Reach Foundation for Young Kids is a Credit to him and His Roots..
He was a Member My Club.. The Celtic Club Melbourne a Class Act in Everything he Done..
May He Rest in Peace..
001Bhoy
Paul67 et al,
So why has Mr Regan’s letter asked for info regarding the last ten years? Is that the entire lifespan of EBTs in general, or of EBTs at RFC? Or is it just an arbitrary draw a line in the sand and check forwards from there?
RobertTressell
Totally agree, just lining Duff&Duffer’s pockets and if they ever survive, there will be no money left in the bares pockets to help out.
Hoping for a Skacel and Black booking just to annoy the pair of bams.
SIX Hearts players will walk a suspension tightrope in this evening’s William Hill Scottish Cup quarter-final replay with St Mirren as they attempt to avoid a booking which would preclude them from the semi-final.
Andy Driver, Scott Robinson, Ian Black, Danny Grainger, Rudi Skacel and Suso Santana would all miss the semi-final with Celtic if they are cautioned tonight and Hearts go through. Under new disciplinary rules introduced by the Scottish Football Association, two cup bookings means a suspension in the next round, and all of the above have been yellow carded in previous rounds.
Rogueleader @ 12:26
I totally agree. It’s also worth considering how rare the change of ownership of a football club is in Scotland, particularly one the size of RFC*IA.
If it transpires that RFC lied to the SFA to get their UEFA license, in turn that means that the SFA have not truthfully advised UEFA. The repurcussions of that on Celtic could be massive.
Ticgaz
you got email
Hail Hail
Re the flapping about Juninho
Don’t you think it makes the SFA look worse if Celtic owned up everything at the time?
Why didn’t this arouse suspicion about side contracts on top of the morality of ebt’s?
Surely,if Celtic flagged up the possibility of an extra contract the SFA should’ve investigated?
An earlier post mentioned that the HMRC result will be about Easter……. I think it will be shortly after the end of the tax year, to ensure the new rule can apply……..newcos will then be liable for the tax debts of the oldco….??
BobbyRussell on 21 March, 2012 at 12:33 said:
Should we all sing “Hello, Hello, 9 in a row” on Sunday, in advance of thems getting stripped of their TAINTED titles? Or shall the only Hello, Hello chants be emanating from the odious three sides of the stadium?
…………………………..
I think “Cheerio, Cheerio” would be more apt.
Re: Fit and Proper people.
Given Rangers’ propensity to attract colourful characters from the world of business, is it likely that Rangers – either in its present incarnation or as a NewCo – will be able to find leaders with the money, experience, and clean hands to take them forward?
Sir David Murray, Craig Whyte, Paul Murray, Joe King, etc. all have their well-publicised shortcomings.
Who’s next?
Clarence J. Boddicker?
Auric Goldfinger?
The Master?
Apparently Kev Jungle’s bookie is taking bets on them being phoenixed under a NewCo run by noted entrepreneur Harry Mudd and The Tribbles.
Personally I’d like to see Rangers owned and run by a fans collective headed by Mark Dingwall. It would be like a real-life Dogme ’95 film by Lars von Trier. (thumbsup)
Given the muttering coming out of Ibrox
Just what sort of answers would they give to the SFA
questionaire
None of the 6 hearts players will receive a yellow tonight, since they are playing us next….!!!!
Lennon n Mc….Mjallby on 21 March, 2012 at 12:56 said: …..
An excellent point!
Jobo
Paul
How do I send an email to CQN?
Shorthouse denies any leaks originating from his media department.
There have been 45 investigations in the last 5 years into leaks at Strathclyde Police Force.
None of these investigations into leaks were into the media department. Maybe he runs a extremely tight ship especially for a media department. He did used to work for SFA….proactive…??
googybhoy ♥ Celtic and Integrity on 21 March, 2012 at 13:02 said:
—–
I don’t care what we’re singing – I’ll be in the Broomloan Rear with my party hat and streamers etc … :-)
HH
Giggs
67Heaven … I am Neil Lennon..!!..Truth and Justice will always prevail
Believe such a scenario will NOT apply. Definitive!
Been posted several times by posters much much better versed on these things than me.
Clink\o/ by appointment to Mr Custards Jelly And Ice Cream Emporium on 21 March, 2012 at 13:04 said:
”Given the muttering coming out of Ibrox
Just what sort of answers would they give to the SFA
questionaire”
The Administrators will, with some justification, state that they are not in a position to answer the questions.
They might suggest that the SFA should address their enquiries to those who were on the huns board of directors during the relevant period. People like Campbell Ogilvie, for instance.
Lennon n Mc….Mjallby on 21 March, 2012 at 12:56 said
Don’t you think it makes the SFA look worse if Celtic owned up everything at the time?
——
From memory I think we decided to settle up with Hector not ,because we believed at the time that EBT was illegal at the time, but that we believed it to be immoral to avoid paying tax.
Onlooker
Ohits@12.32
Brilliant
Thats getting forwarded
kitalba on 21 March, 2012 at 12:26 said:
How dare you call MAyHEm a nutter! :-)
Paul,
I would expect a good governing body to be slow, meticulous, thorough and un-showy. I’m therefore prepared to give them a bit of leeway as regards making rapid public pronouncements on things. So long as the net is cast far and wide and the results are dealt with dilligently and in compliance with the rules I will be happy. The last thing we need is for the SFA to rush and make a mess of investigations.
Sorry but what is all this about ebt, juninho etc what are we being accused of ? Or have the sfa said 3. Teams are being investigated about something …. Quick answer will do please. Have read posts but unsure. Can I still keep my jelly an ice cream ?
The Onlooker on 21 March, 2012 at 13:12 said:
I suspect that BQ knew Rangers were doing it and had done it for years and Celtic knew it was an incorrect method. It’s been a long process for this to come to a head and Celtic have been very patient. It would have been easy to just throw money at the team. Celtic have prepared for this moment on and off the park for a long time and will not let this moment pass without ultimate punishment.
There was/has been no reason to make any statement or move in the courts as yet because Rangers and the SFA have shot themselves in the foot since last season.
If and when the moment comes for Celtic to make a move they will be ready. I reckon they have been preparing since MON left the club. The sums spent by Dick the Dutchman were not sustainable or even possible and Celtic knew it. The club have played this well and if the SFA/SPL do not strip Rangers for tainted titles I will expect Celtic to take them to court.
Did Celtic sign Juninho and make a point that this was illegal/immoral? Looks like this has been done to show example and may well be an admission of innocence from Celtic. It may well be the most important move Brian Quinn ever made at Celtic.
We are nowhere near the end of this and I suspect that once the truth is ready to break Rangers will liquidate themselves to save further embarrassment. They will then try to launch as a Newco and use the press to convince everyone it’s the same club with the original name (slightly changed) and all trophies won are still relevant to the Newco.
The Celtic board deserve huge credit throughout the last ten years. We may not have spent cash but we have ensured that the club is on an even keel and in a position to continue for years to come.
LB
Sir Paul
JIst a Thought………………..
As ye know Ah am Nae Stranger tae Turnin a Buck..or .. a Pound…or a Euro.
That Being said..
Ah believe Ah kin Speak wi some authority, regarding..the Manly Art o’… Buying a Business.
And if there is wan thing A hiv Loined in daeing Whit Ah Dae..and Dae,Dae… sae weel.. is, this.
Pey attenshun,kiddo. Tak note.
“Never,but Never, have a PARTNER… in entering intae . ANY TYPE O’ BUSINESS VENTURE!”
fur..
It Jist Disnae. WOIK oot !
Heck.. Marriage, is a Great Example o’ .. trying tae Get . Even .. TWO people tae Pull the Same Oar.
and.. in the States..anyway. the odds in THAT kinda.. partnership Woiking oot..is.. Almost. Even Stevens..
No Very guid Odds.
Right?
So when Ah read that The G.A . is being ..
BOMBARDED wi’ a Goodly Number o’ offers tae Be Bought.. NO… by a Weel Heeled.. INDIVIDUAL.. but .. by
Consortia(Yer auld Latin Teacher,wull be Proud..ed)( Ah Know ..Oh.. Ah Know!) or… tae use Ma Ain Favourite woid tae Describe a Mob o’ Crafty Custards… SYNDICATES..
Then . Ah say tae Ma Favourite gal.. as Ah take in this Scene..
“Here we go Agin. Virginia!!”
Which, if the winning Bidder.. is a Consortium… wull no doot be a Truism.
The way things are Lurching..doon Edmiston Drive Wey.
Fae Pillar tae Post.. Like a Possessed.. Pin Ball Machine..
getting Naewhere.. Fast..
Ah could Smile..
But, Ah wullnae..
Ah wid rather..
Laugh!!
Kojo
Still.. Laughin’ like Hades.
Celtic have always declared their payments. Who is to say the likes of Dundee & hearts have with their respective South Americans and Lithuanians.
Lads anybody know any Celtic friendly pubs showing the game on Sunday in Edinburgh?
I would imagine that the SFA are hoping their letter will go some way towards mollifying UEFA.
I expect their letter will show the extent of their ineptitude and incompetence
proudbhoy
stick with current menu.
Someone was asking why the concerted scramble to flog flags and Milan tickets etc when the big picture remains uber-gloomy…surely it’s a case of ‘Who pays the ferryman?’. Gotta get to Hades somehow…
67Heaven … I am Neil Lennon..!!..Truth and Justice will always prevail on 21 March, 2012 at 13:00 said:
An earlier post mentioned that the HMRC result will be about Easter……. I think it will be shortly after the end of the tax year, to ensure the new rule can apply……..newcos will then be liable for the tax debts of the oldco
=====================================================
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO.
This myth is like a deep rooted weed, no matter how many “nos” are sprinkled on it, it keeps reappearing.
The old debts do NOT get moved over. The legislation as I undrstand what it does do is that phoenix companies with VAT or PAYE/NI avoidance records have to put down a bond before they can trade. I think it applied only to VAT but now is extended to PAYE/NI. Regardless, what it does not do is make Newco responsible for oldcos unpaid tax.
No no no no no (for luck ;) )
Chris McLaughlin of the BBC, along with various other commentators, and indeed some posters of CQN, have stated that they do not believe that Rangers apparent use of inelligible players will be met with a retrospective 3-0 forfeit of matches. The reasons supporting this position haven’t been provided, but I think the Contador saga with CAS is a useful parallel to use to consider the avenues open to ensure the rules are fairly applied. To recap:
– Alberto Contador was found to have a small quantity of the banned Clenbuterol in his system during the 2010 Tour de France. The dosage wasn’t consistent with intentional doping, but a banned substance is a banned substance and so the authorities investigated.
– Contador, unable to explain the source of the Clenbuterol in his system, mounted the defence that it was from contaminated meat (Clenbuterol-contaminated beef is not uncommon in some geographies).
– Unfortunately for Alberto, he wasn’t able to prove the source of the contamination, i.e. find and demonstrate that the supply of his beef had contaminated with Clenbuterol.
– Taking the above into account, the Spanish cycling authorities handed down a judgement that said, “the Clenbuterol clearly wasn’t the result of intentional doping, but we can’t verify the exact source and Clenbuterol isn’t allowed in any quantities so you are getting a 1 year ban”. The standard ban for this sort of breach is 2 years.
– Contador wasn’t happy that his name would be tarred in this manner as he had not doped and appealed the judgement.
– The cycling authorities (in Spain) changed their minds and said basically “Ok, we know you didn’t dope. No ban.”
– The international cycling union (UCI) were not happy with this and appealed to the CAS. After a lengthy case with lots of talking from lots of expensive lawyers, the CAS returned their judgement. Paraphrased, it went something like this – “The balance of probability is that Contador did not intentionally dope. The balance of probabiliy is that the Clenbuterol came from a contaminated meat source. However, Contador cannot demonstrate with certainty the source of the contaminated meat, and it is his responsibility to ensure he does not consum contaminated meat. Therefore the standard UCI rule of a 2 year ban should apply”.
The point here is that the CAS more or less agreed with Contador’s position, but still decided that the full UCI sanction should be applied in full. If the Rangers/SFA case ever gets this far, I think we can expect more of the same, i.e. Players were not properly registered. These players were fielded in matches. These matches are forfeit 3-0. No emotion. No consideration of Rangers unique place in the game. No thoughts for the “damage to Scottish football”.
I’d love to hear why Chris McLaughlin disagrees with this view.
Professor Green – I don’t think Edinburgh is a very friendly place.
For example, they shoot a gun from the castle every day at 1pm.
Mind you, if it was Glasgow, the locals would fire back.
Edinburgh looks nice on postcards, but the natives speak a weird form of gibberish interspersed with “ken” and “gash, like!”. Sometimes I wonder if Edinburgh is even a proper English city.
It’s all junkies, Jambos and Miss Jean Brodie in Edinburgh.
Glasgow’s miles better. (thumbsup)