When you have a potential loss to the tax payer of £75m, allegations of tax irregularities, political interference, alleged sporting malfeasance and stand of the brink of the largest corporate failure in Scottish history (discounting the bailed-out RBS) the profile of the story rises above the blogs and regular Scottish media.
Alex Thomson, chief correspondent for Channel 4 News, a man who reports from war zones, interviews prime ministers and presidents, decided to look into how the SFA were handling the current crisis in Scottish football. Yesterday he blogged on the subject, raising many of the questions we have asked in recent months.
On Twitter this morning he reported his experience in trying to get some sense out of the SFA, this is what he said:
“SFA say President Campbell Ogilvie is ‘distancing himself from the current Rangers investigation’ but did not explain how.
“Campbell Ogilvie ‘did not know’ about EBT contract when he was Rangers FC secretary?
“When we asked why not – that was his job – SFA said they didn’t know.
“SFA say their President and fmr Ranger secretary Campbell Ogilvie will not be interviewed by c4news about what he knew…
“SFA say their President Campbell Ogilvie ‘has no plans to stand aside from his job pending current Rangers probes…
“Interesting SFA have just accused me of ‘lying’, ‘pig-headedness’ and then put the phone down mid-conversation….
“all because I put their own statement back to them that Campbell Ogilvie denied knowing about EBTs at Rangers…
“And suggested there might be a perceived conflict of interest in his current position until the investigations are complete”
Three weeks ago we suggested that Ogilvie’s position as SFA president was untenable, saying “The association cannot have a president embroiled in a tax evasion scam which, even before a verdict has been decided, has already caused untold harm to his former club and the reputation Scottish football.”
The SFA have been able to dismiss pleas for sporting integrity and ethical standards from the blogsphere while the mainstream media have either chased the hapless fall-guy, Craig Whyte, or refused to take the Improper Registration of Rangers players seriously.
SFA chief executive, Stewart Regan, was flushed out his slumber by Mr Thomson’s comments this morning, Tweeting to the reporter, “Please could you confirm who you have spoken to. thank you.”
Stewart, if you really need to ask that question, you’re in more trouble than I thought. There are several thousand CQN’ers who could help answer that one.
Campbell Ogilvie and the SFA cannot hide from the facts of this crisis. He is president of the SFA and both he and the association must acknowledge there is work to do. We can only hope Uefa finally decide to take a look.
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Flabbergasted to hear Jim Traynor on Radio Scotland there:
“David Murray says the bank put no pressure on him to sell. I’m not so sure”.
Jim. Has it come to this!
Its not just the tops that cannot clash, its the shorts and socks as well.
It seems Referees these days are unable to tell the difference even though their predecessors could tell the strips apart for over a 100 years with no problems!
Sun and the DR revert to type and give the Mint acres of space to spout off the biggest pile of manure imaginable. I had hoped the media might have got over their puppy love by now having been exposed to weeks of stories highlighting him as the primary reason Rangers are on their belly but no . . . the mint remains top dog in the eyes of Traynor and co. Pathetic.
Who………
Is…………..,
Chick……….
Young……..,,,
BigjoeWondersWhyPeople
SellthereSole
Flabbergasted to hear Jim Traynor on Radio Scotland there:
Jim as a bad man who I detest
I hole he gets what’s coming to him
BigjoeonAnaAntiKacktrip
greenjedi on 14 March, 2012 at 09:57 said:
Its not just the tops that cannot clash, its the shorts and socks as well.
It seems Referees these days are unable to tell the difference even though their predecessors could tell the strips apart for over a 100 years with no problems!
————————-
so, we should change the shorts or the socks or both, but keep the hoops on.
remind me what did we were in Seville ?
as close to a Celtic v Killie strip clash as it gets.
off my horse now,
we will win anyways.
Apropos of nothing really,but was it only me who heard Liverpool fans singing Just Can’t Get Enough during their game last night?
Lads going by Alex Thomson’s tweets, he says the SPL won’t publish decision untill tax judge reports.
So what happens if they get punished with a pts deduction after the split, i thought i read somewhere that if you finish in top 6 after split then you can’t be demoted to lower league position.
Any ideas boys.
Dundee United 5 Rangers 0
200/1
Dundee United TO WIN 7/4
They need to draw or get beat for us to be able to win the league at ipox don’t they?
greenjedi
Aye but Motherwell need to drop points also between now and next Sunday.
Bhoys, looking for some help.
There was an article written about a month ago about how clubs in the SPL would fare financially without the huns. It talked about how many extra fans needed to fo through the gates plus increased TV cut, etc. Does anybody have a link to this article still?
Cheers
BB
Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan supports Kano 1000 on 14 March, 2012 at 09:28 said:
Another exceptional contribution.
MWD
miki67 on 14 March, 2012 at 10:08 said:
Liverpool – what a joke that club are. Huddle? The Fields? and now Just can’t Get Enough.
That is before we even get to the YNWA debate. Seriously – they sicken me.
!!Bada Bing!! Kano 1000 on 14 March, 2012 at 09:34 said:
Strange, no mention of the brown striped underpants…
DeniaBhoy at 09:58 said:
‘Sun and the DR revert to type and give the Mint acres of space to spout off the biggest pile of manure imaginable. I had hoped the media might have got over their puppy love by now having been exposed to weeks of stories highlighting him as the primary reason Rangers are on their belly but no . . . the mint remains top dog in the eyes of Traynor and co. Pathetic.’
Denia: manys a time we CQNers have mused over this continued hold ‘Sir’ David Murray seems to have over our much-maligned Scottish MSM.
Never having met the bloke, I suppose it’s possible that Murray possesses genuine charisma (there are plenty of examples from history of megalomaniacs who had this very ‘quality’; and many journos seem prone to succumbing to this charm, in between gulps of wine and slices of delicious tuck).
His bullying inclinations are also fairly well documented (again, normal behaviour for this type).
In Scotland, too, he has doubtless benefitted from being the figurehead at the helm of the ‘establishment’ club (in reality, however, he has proved himself to have been more of a Barabas than a Messiah).
I would also say that it becomes increasingly obvious that through his long leadership of Rangers, during which they acquired (albeit illicitly) a barrow-load of trophies, he is still held in such great regard.
There is every likelihood, too, that there is a Masonic angle to much of this: either through Murray himself, or his acolytes, such as the Rangers hierarchy and many members of the MSM.
Here’s hoping that Ch 4’s Alex Tomson isn’t in the lodge …
FF
jungle jam @ 09:48,
This must certainly be outside the SPL/SFA rules, SDM is admitting the paymants as from his perspective Football non-ompliance is small beer, his main concern would be how the revenue view this form a legal stand point.
If the BTC finds in favour of the HMRC then outside the issues of interest, penalties etc. they my look to see if the scheme involved Tax Evasion.
Now if SDM can say, I took advice and the Trusts were set up in good faith, so apologies we got it wrong and we have to face the consequnces, that is one thing.
However if the view by HMRC is that the scheme was set up to evade tax that could lead to criminal charges and gaol.
Celtic beat Kilmarnock in the 2001 L C final wearing a change kit but it seems that too many changes are made these days. Celtic and Hibs womens teams were able to play in their first kits and Hibs had white shorts!
Read the below and answer me this.
Sir Minty states the small EBT did evade tax so they accepted liability and paid up. He then says the bigger scheme did not. What was the difference? According to Sir Minty it is ‘contractual obligation.’
Does that not imply there was a second contract during the first scheme and therefore the players were improperly registered between 1999 and 2001. Or am I just being thick?
SIR David Murray and his colleague Mike McGill insisted yesterday that another former Rangers director, Hugh Adam, was mistaken to say that the club had operated a system of dual contracts
The two were also adamant that their use of Employee Benefit Trusts (EBTs) around the turn of the century was based on sound legal advice.
The EBTs have since become the subject of a tax tribunal (the “big tax case”) which could land Rangers with a bill of up to £49million, and is separate from a far smaller tax case which Rangers agreed with Her Majesty’s Revenue & Customs.
“Mr Adam I think resigned as a director in September 2000,” McGill said. “The club used an old offshore EBT scheme in 1999 with three players. That scheme is the subject of the small tax case.
“The Revenue provided some information to us in early 2011 and we conceded [a sum of £2.8m] based on that information and provided for payment in the club accounts. Craig Whyte didn’t pay it.
“The other scheme was started in 2001. The larger scheme involves a payment into an offshore trust, but there is no contractual entitlement on the part of the players. That is key to the defence.”
Macjay,Blantyretim
I’m sure Eddie Reader cancelled a concert because it clashed with the Uefa Cup Final in Seville as she didn’t want to miss it!
Silver City Neil Lennon on 14 March, 2012 at 09:36 said:
Celtic Football Club@celticfc
Celtic & Kilmarnock to wear change kits in League Cup Final. Celtic in grey & white hooped top with green sleeves. Killie in all-yellow.(PC)
Why? Hoops easy to confuse with stripes? Both second tops are yellow. I’d rather we tossed a coin.
I believe our tactic is going to be lots of diving headers, so those watching in black+white could get confused
miki67 on 14 March, 2012 at 10:08 said:
Apropos of nothing really,but was it only me who heard Liverpool fans singing Just Can’t Get Enough during their game last night?
I believe they sing part of it and the words Luis and Suarez appear
I might be shooting the gun a bit here, as I suspect SDM’s interview in the herald this morning will be covered by a post by Paul67 later this morning, nevertheless…
I’m not much of a lawyer, but then it doens’t take much to drive a cart and horses through what SDm says (or doesn’t say) in his interview:
Campbell Ogilvie wasn’t involved in paying players:
Okay, but was he involved in registering them with the SPL and the SFA? SDM doesn’t say.
Campbell Ogilvie’s position in the SFA isn’t compromised at all:
It is almost invonceivable (or, this being Scotland, perhaps it is perfectly conceivable) that any meaningful inquiry into the proper registration of players would fail to take evidence form a person who’s job it was to properly register players. Therefore, could Campbell Ogilvie be a relevant witness before any SPL/SFA inquiry? Yes. Can he therefore be involved in framing the shape of the inquiry? No. If public and stakeholder confidence is to be maintained, can he be seen to be framing the shape of the inquiry? No. While an inquiry before which he must surely be called to provide evidence continues, is his position as the President, and one of the most visible officers of the SFA, compromised? Without a doubt.
Rangers payments weren’t illegal:
This is a classic “Aunt sally” argument. SDM is trying to defeat an argument nobody serious is even making. The question for HMRC isn’t whether EBT payments were illegal, simply whether they were taxed properly. The question for the SFA/SPL ought to be whether payments to players relating to their football activities were declared in the contract of service (howsoever composed). Illegality of the payments is nothing to either point.
Payments to players contained in letters were “never mean to be binding” and were simply “letters of intent”.
A position he has to maintain if Rangers defence to the EBT claim is to hold water. Let’s wait and see on that one. In terms of the undeclared payments to players, however, it is not relevant. The question on that point is, were ALL details of payments to players relating to their footballing activities declared to the SPL/SFA. He doesn’t answer that in any way shape or form.
I am staggered (I should be beyond that now) that the MSm continues to fail to ask the proper questions on this story. I am sure Paul67 will see through SDM’s blatant smoke and mirrors pantomime in a later post.
St Stivs
Apologies buddy. I posted this morning and then logged off missing Tiny Tims post or I would have booked those 2 tickets.
MWD
Liverpool fans started singing JCGE as a tribute to Suarez as in: when i see you suarez…etc
A Liverpool supporting friend of mine picked me up on us ‘copying them again’ until I pointed him in the direction of a youtube clip of us singing it two months before Suarez signed for them.
My retort: aye, we copied you in the same way we copied The Fields and YNWA.
Although to be fair, they definitely did do “Don’t buy the s*n” before us, so all can be forgiven.
jungle jam67 on 14 March, 2012 at 09:48 said: re minty…
Did he not think to ask the sfa or spl for guidance …….
I’m guessing he didn’t think he had to as whaever he decided to do would be fine in their eyes……
^^ I say they done the “Don’t buy the s*n” before us; we generally didn’t buy it anyway
new article posted.
Morning. A good friend of mine (Falkirk fan) said:
“Still think you need to be very careful what you wish for. You don’t know what you’ve got till it’s gone, and I don’t mean Rangers I mean the TV money.”
So I had to respond which I thought I’d share as I felt better afterwards ! (with props to Paul67 and loads on here for providing the material – not much of this is original):
The point here is that they WILL get liquidated – see below – there is a no hope barring a billionaire willing to throw over £100m away before even starting to build a team and repair Asbestbrox. They are finished – Rangers 1872 will die, with their history and five cheatin’ stars.
Once that happens, the existing Sky TV deal is DEAD – there is no “Rangers”.
Now I accept a Newco will form, and no doubt due to hun cunning and SFA/SPL compliance, the Newco will magically be in custody of an Abestos ridden ground (who owns it?), a training complex at Auchenhowie (who owns it?), some gallant players (better be quick – all can leave for next to nothing in June) AND A LICENSE TO PLAY IN THE SPL (pi$$ off UEFA, nothing to see here). However, it will be a New Company. Any existing commercial deals, including TV, will have to be renegotiated anyway. The current mega bucks(ha ha ha ha ha) deal will be nulled. But there will be a TV deal – Sky have 4 channels of schedules to fill. ESPN are part of Disney – huge and bigger than Sky – they could play the long game and offer Scottish football a long term deal once new Tax Dodgers FC regroup and are competitive again.
The death of Las Ranglers is a once in a life time chance to re shape the Scottish game – I agree we should look at more equitable split of prize money, TV money, distribution of Euro millions, voting rights and even league structure.
BUT what you are missing is that the story to unfold here is not about the big tax case and financial problems at Rangers, it is about a conspiracy of corruption between Scottish football governance (SFA , SPL and SFL (pre 1998)) and Rangers. Of people in positions of oversight and governance who have conspired to allow Rangers to improperly register players for around 16 years. Irrespective of whether the tax man agrees the EBTs were administered properly or not, there are answers to give on whether Rangers declared all football emoluments to players to the governance bodies, and thus duped UEFA as well to play in the Champions League. Every match in which they have fielded an ineligible player has to be reversed as a 0-3 defeat (this is a global football standard punishment for this offence). Ogilvie, Bain, McClelland, Smith all held roles of governance with fiduciary duties – at best they are incompetent and have failed in those fiduciary duties (this is an offence for a Director) or they are corrupt. Which is it? TV Deal – we will be lucky to have a football authority in Scotland after this plays out. I’m lead to believe UEFA are watching – UEFA is no fan of UK football authorities. They are also not riven with sectarian hatred and bigotry (you can ask Hugh Dallas about that).
You and I and all Scottish football fans have been watching a sham probably since Murray took over – think about it – look at the players they signed? And any dissent has been trampled with cries of “paranoia” and “biscuit tin” from the Laptop Loyal.
Revolution is needed my friend to cleanse our game. “Rangers” need to apologise to Scottish football for their wrongs and ask for forgiveness – we can then all move on. Start any Newco in Div 3- this will hugely boost the SFL. They are barred from Europe for 3 years in any case – let them grow and obtain our trust as they work their way back with honour and dignity. In 3-4 years a strong team from Glasgow will be in the SPL to compete with revitalised sides from Aberdeen and Edinburgh and Dundee, full of young Scottish players, some now with European football experience, used to competing for the prizes now available on a level playing field.
A notable Celtic blogger introduced this phrase which I find powerful and apt “whatever part of my club is dependent on Rangers, I am willing to lose”.
HH
TLK
.
Kilmarnock to wear Change Strip on SUNDAY..
Celtic in the Hoops..
Summa
How did a ‘ Dupe ‘ like Minty manage to dupe big big millions from HBOS ? Did he tell porkies , did he mislead , did he deceive or did he simply say —–” Hey , I’m fabulously rich but at present , I’ve got a wee cash flow problem ” ?
I think we should be told .
Fabulous that Minty claims to have known next to zilch about Whyte . Whyte’ s Vital Holdings scam was the talk of the UK Financial World’s steamie . His brass necked filching of @ £ 300k from under Hector’s nose was given a big wow by connoisseurs of art form financial chicanery. Throw in the ever so unfortunate loss of other people’s money and Whyte had earned a reputation as a shyster of the first degree ..
Maybe Minty thought the boy showed potential.
Big Joe on 14 March, 2012 at 09:59 said:
Who………
Is…………..,
Chick……….
Young……..,,,
BigjoeWondersWhyPeople
SellthereSole
………………………………………………………
Because fishermen need to make a living. :-)
SonOfDan @ 10:22,
In a way they are correct but the two contract thing is a herring rouge.
It matters not a jot whether the players had two contracts or not, what matters is did the players recieve any paymetns for Football or Football related activities.
They are now seemingly admitting this, if these payments weren’t lodged to the SPL in the correct manner then they are prohibited.
They are questioning Huge Adams in a semantic sense (did the dual payments constitute two contracts) not in a literal sense as the players were paid twice! Illicit payments was Mr Adams concern.
Bluff&BlusterCSC
Hi All
Don’t know if it’s been posted before or not.
But 5 Live now coming up for a show on our Neighbour
BBC Radio 5 live: Rangers, What Next?
With the existence of Rangers Football Club in the balance, 5 live Sport will be in Glasgow to examine what’s next for the historic Scottish club?
You’ll hear from former players, managers, politicians, journalists and fans on why they think the club has got to this point and what they feel is the future?
That’s Rangers, What Next? a 5 live Sport Special with Mark Chapman, Monday 19 March from 7pm.
Date: Monday 19 March
Venue: The Pearce Institute, Glasgow
Doors open: 6.30pm
Minimum age: 21 (Photographic ID will be required)
To apply for tickets, visit the BBC Tickets Website.
TIMBHOY IN SPAIN
The 7-1 game was in “Celtic in the fifties” which has been removed.however,try this in the meantime.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUvysh2Icng