It feels like 2012 all over again. Supporters of all clubs and Celtic (of yes they were) on one side, the SPFL (SPL), SFA and directors of other clubs opposing. Back then, the issue was whether SPL accession rules should be changed to allow an applicant football club, then known as Sevco Scotland, to be invited into the top flight of Scottish football.
The proposal was eventually rejected 10-1, with Rangers voting in favour of allowing the applicant and Kilmarnock abstaining, but that result wasn’t always likely. For months the league debated this issue and Celtic stood alone. It wasn’t until fans made their wishes known that others had an epiphany: good governance is important.
The official line from the SFA can be parsed as: those who are up to their necks in this scandal have absolutely no appetite to discuss it anymore, and a solicitor has told us this is OK.
Where are you Aberdeen, Dundee United, Dundee, Hibs, Hearts, Motherwell, Partick Thistle, Queen of the South, St Johnstone? Do not for a minute think they are all waiting on guidance from the SPFL – they’re not.
Right now, clubs across Scotland are asking themselves what to do about the most serious cheating in Scottish football history. It would be wrong to characterise all of them as wanting to protect those they have mixed with for decades. Some have reacted like this, others just don’t know what to do.
It is the job of their fans to shine a light on the road ahead.
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In the middle of this farrago, I love the way in which Murray expressed his sympathy for the small creditors who would lose out in the liquidation process as a result of the Supreme court ruling. That man’s a prince.
Ok I am back in Scotland-
What did I miss?
P.S. Congrats to HT and Minx on the CQN marriage- I assume that Chris will not be turning up for 5s tomorrow morning :-)
Off to Dublin in the green – yahoooooo!!
PATMCGRATHTAKESAPENALTY on 7TH JULY 2017 4:40 PM
In the middle of this farrago, I love the way in which Murray expressed his sympathy for the small creditors who would lose out in the liquidation process as a result of the Supreme court ruling. That man’s a prince.
That’s the same chanty wrassler who put Airdrie to the wall on the grounds ‘that business is business.
His is the first title that should be stripped.
It’s time we lobbed the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch.
This will be a sad time for the McStays, so they are in my thoughts and prayers. Knowing Paul’s in-laws, I have heard many good things about Mr McStay. Prayers at Mass tomorrow for them all. R.I.P. John McStay.
https://youtu.be/RWOJtHZu9E0
Parcel of rogues is the least these bad….. are.
R.I.P Bradley Lowery
Brings back memories of the wee life changer #fearless Oscar Knox
Celtic offered Dundee more than Rangers offered Dundee for Novo.
Rangers offered Novo payment by EBT which meant he earned twice as much, for the same cost to the club, than he would have got a CP.
Then the wee sh** scored regularly against us.
Any sporting advantage there?
QF
MARGARET MCGILL on 7TH JULY 2017 4:45 PM
It’s time we lobbed the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch.
Thought that I was a know all.
But Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch has me beat.
If I was on the Celtic or any other club board I would be beelin at that shambles of a statement, get tore into them Celtic, they are a disgrace to football.
Dallas D
I noticed the glibby one failed to mention the illegal registrations and the side letters.
Rest In Peace John McStay
Our thoughts and prayers are with the McStay family at this sad time.
SP
Surely we can nip this in the bud right now
Celtic simply state that Dave Kings statement has no relevance in reality as he is now the chairman of a new club, and all grievances we may or may not have are directed elsewhere
Bang goes any notion that the Old Firm is alive and kicking.
Sad news about John McStay and Bradley
May they Rest in peace.
God bless the legal system
Re Holy Hand Grenade.
The whole thing is like something out of Monty Python.
Damn, meant to be bas…..!. Phones , lol
Classic tub-thumping stuff from King. Just the type of thing to – say – deflect attention from being turfed out of Europe by the fourth best team in Luxembourg (who even knew there were four teams IN Luxembourg?).
How long until he says they weren’t banking on European money?
Glibby’s statement is also mean’t to rile up the permaragers of that I have no doubt..
Get them on point and on full intimidation mode..
It’s all Celtic’s fault etc etc..
Margaret McGill on 7th July 2017 4:45 pm
Alas, it’s more likely we ‘run away’ than waggle our privates in their general direction.
Lest we forget what the judge actually said in full about this absolute zoomed, how he is anywhere near the game is another travesty…
Rangers: Dave King – More Than Glib & Shameless
Posted by Mark | Oct 15, 2013 | Latest | 0 |
The still potential return of Dave King to the Ibrox boardroom has provided a boost to the number of Northern Hemisphere hits received by various previously obscure South African business & finance websites. And if ‘Google’ employs people to monitor such things, those people will be scratching their heads at the concentration of search entries for “glib and shameless liar” coming from certain parts of the West of Scotland. Glasgow-born but since 1976 South Africa-based “entrepreneur” King was branded thus by a High Court Judge, Brian Smallwood, in October 2010. The comment came in a ruling on an appeal (lost) by King against part of the tax debt he recently settled by paying the South African Revenue Service (SARS) the equivalent of £44m and pleading guilty to 41 counts of what he recently called “statutory contraventions” of the country’s tax legislation. That’s “statutory” as in “law.” And “contraventions” as in “breaks,” each of which could have landed King in prison for two years.
This ruling isn’t any more “news” than the disturbing revelations which emerged from Rangers’ annual accounts two weeks ago. It is available in all its 37,480-word glory on a “politicsweb” article headlined Dave King, a “mendacious witness” – another of Judge Smallwood’s King-directed gems. Indeed, veteran blogger Phil Mac Giolla Bhain quoted from the ruling in February 2011 in a piece which appears in his 2012 book Downfall, How Rangers FC self-destructed. However, Mr Justice Smallwood’s full character reference is a distinct 400-plus-word paragraph worthy of more detailed reproduction and examination. And elsewhere, the ruling provides the basis of his views, in a section which begins by telling us, in dry, formal terms that “Mr King’s evidence on a number of issues was not satisfactory” before detailing those issues, at length.
The judge’s assessment begins well enough for King: “Mr King is a tall, slim man in his 50s.” After all, not every man in the current Rangers saga could be deemed “slim.” However, this opening line is as irrelevant as it is factual. Still, the next couple of sentences could almost constitute a fine character reference: “He appeared to be very confident and not in the slightest uncomfortable about giving evidence. He is intelligent and articulate and appears to be well-versed in the intricacies of the financial world & the purchasing & selling of shares on the JSE (the Johannesburg Stock Exchange).” Again, not every man in the current Rangers saga could be deemed “intelligent” or “well-versed” in financial “intricacies.”
For King, however, the judge’s judgment goes downhill from here, faster than an Olympic downhill ski champion with the wind behind them: “Notwithstanding these advantages, he made a very poor impression as a witness.” Judge Smallwood continued: “He is extremely arrogant and obviously thinks that whatever he says is so.” This observation might suggest that King would not feel out of place among the “Rangers men” he may or may not be leading soon. And if it put you in mind of, to pick an example purely at random, former Rangers majority owner David Murray, be assured that you are not alone. And if you think that King was only being glib and shameless in front of his legal adversaries, let Mr Justice Smallwood happily disabuse you of that notion: “He deliberately misrepresented the facts of the case to his legal representatives.” As the ruling notes elsewhere: “Mr King agreed that… he did not want (his) South African legal representatives to know all the facts. He said that this was not necessary.”
This, it seems to me, was not only “extremely arrogant” (see above) but also mendacity to the point of delusion. And it hardly suggested confidence in his case. Equally bizarrely, he also “deliberately misrepresented the facts” to “representatives and solicitors” of the offshore trust (no true Rangers man is complete without one) involved in the case. That he did so “to SARS in correspondence” almost goes without saying. And King also lied to what is referred to as “the section 74 enquiry.” The ruling details this:
“When confronted by what he said at the enquiry, Mr King contended that the record was materially defective & did not correctly reflect what he said. He then conceded that he had been furnished with a copy of the recording, that he had been invited to point out where the transcript was wrong and that he (and presumably his attorney) had not done so.”
Even more remarkably, King proceeded to claim that “the court has already ruled that the section 74C evidence cannot be relied upon because it is materially defective and the Commissioner has agreed that this is so.” However, King “could not say which court had made the ruling.” And “No such ruling was produced by (King’s) legal representatives and no such ruling was referred to in argument.” This was almost as if King was making up evidence as he went along. Actually, on second thoughts, delete “almost.” No wonder Mr Justice Smallwood said that: “As his evidence progressed, it became clear that he has no respect for the truth and does not hesitate to lie, or at least misrepresent the facts, if he thinks it will be to his advantage,” adding: “There can be little doubt that on most occasions Mr King lied, as he knew the correct facts and obviously decided to misrepresent these facts.”
“In cross-examination, (King) often avoided giving a proper answer to the questions. Sometimes he simply ignored the point of the question and gave a long, rambling answer.” But “on other occasions” he… well… stop me if you think you’ve heard something like this before: “He resorted to bluster or to attacking the integrity of the cross-examiner, accusing him of misrepresenting the facts. He also attacked the integrity of the (SARS) Commissioner’s attorney, accusing him of presenting facts to the court, knowing them to be untrue. Ah, yes. Transfer that from Pretoria to Glasgow and you have accusations of “anti-Rangers agendas,” attacking the messenger while avoiding the message (“playing the man,” this has been called) and good old “whataboutery.” Did bulky communications chief James Traynor really write Rangers current combative media strategy? Or was it a lift from King’s courtroom “bluster.”
Either way, it was: “significant that (King’s) counsel have not attempted to make anything of these allegations. They clearly consider that there is no merit in (them).” So, all of this from the judge, and we still haven’t got to the “glib and shameless” stuff. He and two “assessors” (Messrs Matlala and Kilani) “saw Mr King testify in court and in cross-examination for four days and are unanimous that he is a mendacious witness whose evidence should not be accepted on any issue unless it is supported by documents or other objective evidence.”
The ruling on King’s areas of “not satisfactory” evidence, from which many of the above quotes have been extrapolated, puts considerable meat on these bones. Among many soundbite-worthy gems are “Mr King contradicted himself about whether he had a loan account,” “not only is his evidence vague and unsubstantiated, but it makes no sense and is improbable,” (in another sub-paragraph, the ruling states simply that “Mr King’s evidence makes no sense at all”) and “Mr King denied that he did this, when it is clear that he did.” And my personal favourite: “When asked to testify about specific transactions he clearly could not recall any one transaction. He said he may have it at home but he did not produce any document to support the evidence.” Yes. In a High Court, King produced the sort of excuse normally associated with a panicky 11-year-old who hasn’t done his homework. He’d left it “at home.”
And so, at last, to the “glib & shameless” stuff: “It is remarkable that (he) showed no sign of embarrassment or any emotion when he conceded that he had lied to the commissioner in a number of his income tax returns. In our assessment, he is” (DRUM ROLL) “a glib & shameless liar.” It is almost impossible to conceive of a more damning all-round criticism of a court case witness. King’s mendacity was considered wilful and almost an abuse of the intelligence and articulacy for which the judge gives him credit at the start of this assessment. Indeed, King’s actions were deemed all the more contemptible for those qualities.
If, however, there is a worse example to be found, it hardly serves as a positive character reference for King. In February 2012, a judge described the evidence of one witness in a case before him as “wholly unreliable,” adding the comprehensively damning: “It is not possible to ascertain whether he is not telling the truth or is simply unable to recollect the true position, and has convinced himself that this arrangement is something that he would not have entered into. Either way, his evidence is contradicted by virtually every other piece of evidence.” And the identity of this seemingly confused individual? Craig Whyte – a man King is supposedly seeking to succeed. Which probably… needs no further comment.
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Ffs,a glib and shameless liar glibly and shamelessly lying,who’d a thunk it
They are lapping up every to of the Lying King’s words over on FF. The gullible Silly Billys
To ???
What a bizarre deluded statement from our friend across the water. Absolute desperation seeping through every sentence.
I hope that Celtic do respond (and on this occasion I think they have to) but that it’s carefully considered, extremely short and to the point. Our statement on Wednesday (reproduced below) simply reminded the world of our surprise at the outcome of the earlier enquiry. The Club didn’t demand that anything happen now but simply opined that we expected the football authorities to have another look.
I think this highlights a tactic that might be worth adopting. We don’t need to go around demanding that the titles be stripped. Instead, we should be demanding that the issue be looked at in the safe knowledge that any honest revie will then surely lead to the sort of outcome that many of us are hoping for – i.e. stripping the titles.
If you ask anyone ‘should the trophies be removed” you might get a split response. If you instead ask “do you think thatit’s now right that the position be reviewed” I think you’d get a much higher ‘yes’ percentage.
“Celtic’s position on this issue has been consistent – that this has always been a matter for the courts of law and also the Scottish football authorities, whose rules are intended to uphold sporting integrity. In 2013, we expressed surprise – shared by many observers and supporters of the game – over the findings of the SPL Commission that no competitive or sporting advantage had resulted. Today’s decision only re-affirms that view. We are sure now that the footballing authorities in Scotland will wish to review this matter. Celtic awaits the outcome of their review.”
anyway, as the great man once said
The music is weaving
Haunting notes, pizzicato strings
The rhythm is calling
Alone in the night as the daylight brings
hideyourheadinthesandhlurkersdon’tworryit’llallgoaway
While I have no respect for King, his statement will be lapped up by those who follow follow. That will be reinforced by the MSM in this part of the world. Radio Scotland just repeated his gibberings without any comment. What a country we live in. Too many of our “journalists” are either follow followers or comprised or aren’t allowed a hearing.
Imagine we were Independent. Frightening.
Parkhead
Yes, akin to Germany calling
Phil’s take on “David Cunningham Kim Jong-Un” :-)
https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2017/07/07/the-dear-leader-speaks-to-the-people/
Will our Board make a full and proper response to the Lying King’s statement?
People are looking to rally fans to force their clubs to force a change.
That shouldnt be necessary; if our club is being cheated, the Board and management are paid to protect the Club’s interests. They need to do their jobs for which they are well paid. Questions have to be asked if they dont respond.
If the idea is the fans will force the Boards to act, if fans are constantly fed Sevco-supporting lies, they will not know the truth, let alone feel compelled to fight for it. So, Sevco and SFA lies need to be responded to quickly and publicly.
Our Board needs to come out with a statement rebutting each point made in today’s statement.
Since this decision was announced and on every occasion that historical issues about the old club are dealt with, the media on script state it does not effect the present day club, now you have their chairman making a case for it effecting the present day club, you spin me right round right enough. If it wasn’t so serious it would be hilarious the way those implicated then draw attention to themselves now.
Didn’t Glib drop in to have a chat with Regan a couple of months ago
So the statement earlier to the Daily Mail was years old. That was a bit misleading
What has ,Celtic fc asking for a review of cheating got to do with TGSL
IIRC he is the chairman of a company which has a 5yr football club as a subsidiary .
I hope his statement emboldens Celtic are other SPFL clubs to finally seek justice for the wholesale cheating by ragers 1872 .
Let’s just stop the messing about ,they have been caught RED HANDED and all that is left to do is apply the rules fairly .
All the tainted titles marked accordingly and removed from ragers 1872 ,after all where is the DIGNITY in winning something by CHEATING .
HH
mit
just celtic???
MIKE IN TORONTO
Do you think fans of other clubs will be fooled by Dave Kings lies??
Dave King has been baiting Celtic for months he knows if he drags us into a tit for tat statement war, he’ll have succeeded in reducing it to an “old firm two cheeks of the same arse ” debate to the rest of Scottish fans which I would imagine would further his ambitions to sweep sweep follow follow..
N’est-ce pa??
HH
MiT
I can’t see the board responding, I wish they would but I think they will wait and see what the spfl say first.
Also responding to an raving lunatic only drags us down to their level, no doubt Pedro will be talking to those who really matter, at least I hope he is, else it’s really gonna get messy, this is a shambles of gigantic proportions, had the sfa done the right thing at the start………….
HH
timhorton
At least Celtic. If other clubs join in, great. But, if they dont, this should not stop Celtic from speaking out.
Celtic are the club/company that has been most impacted by the cheating. So, Celtic have more reason than most.
I dont have shares in any other football club, so those people dont owe me the same duty. The people that run Celtic do.