Spectre of Celtic and wincing at financial realities


I winced slightly reading that Deliotte’s suggested Celtic were a ‘top 40’ club in terms of turnover.  The days we featured in their annual Top 20 report are long gone, lost in the raft of TV deals which flooded into England, France and elsewhere.

This is a problem for Celtic but at least we have a decent shot at Champions League income each year.  Others in Scottish football have been left to wither on the vine (phrase of the week), as the likes of AFC Bournemouth cherry-pick their talent.

Celtic need a solution to help them compete with their peer-group of European heavy-weights but the solution has to accommodate the other top Premiership clubs.  Dundee United have the ability to produce remarkable talent, if only they had the TV deal to allow them to retain it long enough to build a team.  The same could be said for Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen, Motherwell, Inverness and Ross County.

Scottish football would benefit enormously by federating with a neighbour.

You would think after administration and liquidation those who look to Ibrox for their football fix would, to adopt a popular phrase around those parts, have suffered enough from financial ‘ambition’.  Not a bit of it, it seems.  Not when the spectre of “being battered” by Celtic looms like an enormous green and white tidal wave.

For the last 12 years of its existence, Dave King was one of the non-executive directors of Rangers, paid to ensure that financial controls and risk management [role of non-execs defined by government 2003 Higgs Report]were in place.  I am not being glib or shameless when I say he did a remarkable job.

With Newco appearing to be in some financial distress, King told the Daily Mail he opposes planned cutbacks: ‘If we cut the club back to a level that’s just enough to win the League One or the Championship then that’s fine. But the gap between ourselves and Celtic when we get to the Premiership will be obvious.

“But I don’t feel the club should respond by cutting the costs to the point of saying ‘we only have to do what is necessary to beat East Fife or whoever.

“Because if you do that Celtic will build up to 10-in-a-row and we could be so far behind them that even when we are back in the Premiership we are  not in a position to catch up.

“We cannot risk going to Celtic Park and being battered 6-0.”

Those trying to keep Newco Rangers afloat will not welcome suggestions that current shareholders don’t have the “appetite or willingness to invest”, a few months before they will ask fans to buy season tickets.

Learn your lesson, there is no shame in losing 6-0 to Celtic, this is sport, bad results can happen, but there is enormous shame in failing to live within your means.

I’m off to contemplate 10-in-a-row for a while. To hyphenate or not?
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  1. If we ever did get drawn against the huns in a cup competition – all things being remembered and considered and taken into account – would we batter the huns like we battered Morton?

  2. Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan supports Oscar Knox, MacKenzie Furniss and anyone else who fights Neuroblastoma on

    From the previous thread and in answer to questions posed by Kitalba following discussion last night.






    Good Morning.



    In answering your questions:



    1. No — Mandela saw the SA Government and the political system as the enemy and the opposition — but for a long time within his own independence movement he argued against the use of violence until he was converted to an alternative view.



    Are the Green Brigade part of the Celtic support or do they see the rest of the Celtic support as the enemy or the opposition?



    It should not be that way in my opinion.



    2. Michael Collins was sent to negotiate ultimately and having received a mandate to negotiate came away with what he thought was at least a good interim deal. Obviously, loads of others didn’t like the deal that was struck and we all know what happened from there.



    The point is who do the Green Brigade speak and act on behalf of as I know many fans were far from happy with that banner being shown on that night — many of the same people believe that the banner was clever and had a point but brought the club into disrepute under a bad law brought in by an imperfect organisation — namely UEFA.



    However, they feel that the Green Brigade played fast and loose with the reputation of their club– and that they had no say in that stance. As a result they do not believe that the Green Brigade represented their interests– and if you like they have withdrawn whatever mandate the GB might have had.



    I have said before that I consider The Green Brigade and Celtic PLC to be two of the worst card players you will ever find facing one another at the one card table.



    Had they the good sense to act in consort rather than react against one another with friction then the voice of the Green Brigade would still be heard and would have been far louder than it ever in fact was — and it could have been a great voice for the good. Now it is virtually silent– and that ain’t smart politics.



    Even when they may not have agreed on matters, there could still have been a way of tolerating one another’s point of view on certain matters with a view to finding common ground on things like standing areas and so on. In particular, as one poster said on here last night, there is a difference between being clever and being smart — I am firmly of the view that The Green Brigade needed to be far smarter — and I am even more of the view that Celtic PLC needed the Green Brigade to be far smarter and that it was in the Green Brigade’s interest for the board to be far smarter as well.



    The only winners in a game with two really bad card players is whoever else is at the table and the bank. In this instance the Police, the Government with its stupid bill and ridiculous act triumph — not because they are clever or right but because their opponents are two ends of the one donkey heading in different directions at the same time.



    3. Mother Theresa — absolutely no doubt she did great work — absolutely great work. However, she would not listen to any arguments about the use of certain drugs, advances in medicine and stands accused of causing unnecessary suffering for some by not allowing or going with the advances in medicine that were available over a period of years. She did not believe in pain relief for example.



    Fair enough, her beliefs are her beliefs — but did she become matriarchal and domineering? Should she have listened to others and perhaps taken their opinions on board? Many believe that she should and that by not listening others under her care suffered unnecessary. There is no doubting her good and holy intentions– but was she always right in how she went about fulfilling those intentions?



    As for the food kitchens and that ethos which you talk about?



    The existence of food kitchens are a disgrace — a blot on our landscape and a blight on our social conscience as a society.



    However, that Celtic ethos you talk of existed among the fans more than it ever existed in those who run the club. Shortly after Walfrid’s vision was realised, the money for the penny dinners was abandoned other than on a token basis and the families who controlled Celtic Football and Athletic Club Ltd did so to line their own pockets. Oh there were acts of largesse and charity — but the purpose of the club had changed dramatically and while these people did not receive £1m or whatever, in percentage terms and in ethos terms they took and took and took with Walfrid’s vision completely hijacked. They ran the club for their own financial benefit — not for the benefit of fans like your father or mine etc.



    Many of the original committee men resigned from Celtic when they saw the professional football club emerging — remember that for Walfrid the football was secondary to the fund raising and creating the ability to put food on the table — it was a means to an end with the added advantage that it would distract many from other pastimes and perhaps even other religions or influences.



    But once the club became a pure football club — and that position brought many advantages in footballing terms — was it really a club which still shared Walfrid’s vision?



    I don’t think it was as it decided to pay big wages to players and make no mistake those running the show earned a right few quid.



    Today, we have a greater chance and a greater way of being more like the club that Walfrid formed. WE — the fans—- are forever raising money for the best of causes and for people. The PLC? Well — it plays a lesser role in all of that kind of thing. Sure it has set up the foundation, gives some money to the foundation, and supports the foundation in tapping into OUR vision of the football club and its charity work.



    If we were really following Walfrid’s footsteps we would be clamouring for any potential £5M to go towards ending the foodbanks either through donation or in funding some radical movement that would bring about change. I don’t think that the Marist would have been up for paying that kind of money or its 1888 equivalent plus wages on or to a footballer — after all the entire first team on that first day were all 24 hour loan signings and those who paid to watch did so without knowing who in God’s name was going to take to the field for this new club!



    All they knew, was that someone would turn up, wear the Green and White strip, give of their best and as a result the poor would benefit.



    That is nothing like the Celtic team or support of today.

  3. Hubris, a sneaky wee evil beastie that we all threw in glee at the huns. Who will be the new WATP in the eyes of Scotland’s quiet ones, if the huns wither and die?

  4. Kit. Agree. We would struggle



    Paul67 what is your views on our striker shambles policy over last few years



    Mine is millions of pounds down the drain




    Folks , now that CQTEN has virtually sold out. , I’d I’ve to remind you of our annual dance , taking place on 29th March 2014 at Radisson Blu in Glasgow .



    Tickets are £35 each , for which you get a champagne reception, 3 course meal , dance. , after dinner speech from a certain Tosh McKinlay , the pleasure of over 300 (and counting) other TIMS company and a smattering of celtic players (past and present).



    We’ve also negotiated a competitive rate with the Radisson for B&B .



    So, if you feel that 1 night out in good company in March isn’t enough , why not have 2 ?



    PFAyr is hosting a table and we still have some other capacity so , if you’re interested. , drop me a line to sannabhoy@thekanofoundation.com



    Hail Hail




  6. Paul67,



    Hyphenate away to your heart’s content good Sir!



    Here We Go To 10-In-A-Row,


    Here We Go To 10-In-A-Row


    Here We Go-oo To 10-In-A-Row


    Here We Go To 10-In-A-Row






  7. Peter Lawwell clearly hasn’t got a clue. We should be assimilating a squad capable of competing with the best in the Champions League. It is not enough to have a squad that is only good enough to scrape narrow home wins against the likes of Ajax, Benfica and Spartak Moscow. We must not qualify and then find out that we are too far short of the top teams to catch up.



    We cannot risk going to the Camp Nou and being battered 6-1. Our supporters will not accept that.



    Spend, spend, overspend, and default. Nothing less will do.

  8. leigh griffths is hopefully a load of b**s … Runt of a fella who is decent and thats being generous.



    Atajic goin on loan is disaapointing .. League wrapped up so now is perfect time to give him a run of games. And balde… And rogic , ah sure he’s been sent back to useless league.



    Really think we have wasted a big chance to blood the young bhoys these past couple seasons while they are dead. Really frustratig

  9. Bawsman @ 1243,



    when you see “bottom” placed Athletico Madrid ie in 20th spot with revenues of 120m Euros, is it so surprising that we only get into the Top 40?



    Even 30th placed Marseille have over 100m Euros in revenue.



    The big TV deals in the so-called Big 5 have us walloped! For instance Deloitte believe ALL 20 English EPL Clubs will ” … be comfortably within the Top 50 Globally…”.



    This is why CL group stage revenue is vital to us if we ever want to begin to compete with these teams.






  10. Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan supports Oscar Knox, MacKenzie Furniss and anyone else who fights Neuroblastoma :



    Thanks for the consideration in your post, I do appreciate it, I could go into a life long debate with your response but I don’t think either of us has the time in the bank.



    The point of my post to you was… they believed, I believe in what they believe, I think every single compassionate person in the world would find common ground with them (and us).



    They made a conscious decision to make their point on that night. At least none of them doused themselves in petrol and set themselves alight to death.



    And UEFA fined us for a political statement and then not a week latter laud Nelson Mandela across the continent???



    The difference between Mandela and Sands and Wallace is what? Colour?



    If the Green Brigade were to have canvassed the support prior to that display in the hope of approval, not on the night, but on the sentiment, then can you dare guess how many would have been in their corner?



    They made a point, a valid point, the history of the point has historically caused their demographic dearly, so what it caused Celtic 40k, how much have Celtic made off the backs of the Green Brigade?



    And know this mate… I do not condone half of what the Green Brigade advocate but I do advocate to the last breath from my lungs equality, whether my last name is Mandela or Sands or simply Scottish (like me) Wallace.

  11. eddieinkirkmichael on

    OK guys, I don’t know if this is true but I just heard the Easdale brothers have a wee link to us in that their Da used to be a season ticket holder.


    If this is true it begs the question, are the brothers motives all they appear, lol

  12. Talking of first Cup Finals, mine was the 1965 final against Dunfermline. A pivotal game in Celtic’s modern history and Mr Stein’s first trophy with us. I had never been to Hampden prior to that match. My late father and I climbed the mountainous stairs which led up to the Celtic terracing and when we got to the top of the second tier I looked down on the immense bowl which was, at that time, the second largest stadium in the world. I’ve never forgotten the sense of awe I felt at that moment.



    We were about to watch the first instalment in MrStein’s glorious reign but we didn’t know it.



    That aside, my favourite final was the 4-0 match against the dead team in 1969.


    A majestic, stunning performance.

  13. BRTH



    Mate, honestly I like you, I don’t have the heart to rip that last post apart, I don’t. For the love of god and the poor and reality do you honestly believe that Brother Walfrid would endorse anybody being paid the best part of one million in bonuses – in bonuses – on top of his wages, as an employee of Celtic, when people are decaying to death in Glasgow, just like the bad old days.



    Henry Ford and the Ford Motor Company – Fairlane – An Gorta Mor.

  14. Toor A Loo,



    being perfectly honest, I have not got a clue.



    None of Griffiths, May or guys of that ilk though, well not if we want to do any damage in the CL anyway. Good players as I said earlier, but good SPFL players IMO.






  15. pabloh_AKA_NEIL LENNON on

    Just glanced thru some of the Q&A the daily mail felt they needed to do with disgraced convicted criminal Dave King. Why he’s getting column inches is beyond me.



    I tell you what, if this guys solution for the new club is to spend spend spend then it’s business as usual at ibrox, and the new club in blue will die like the last.



    And the amount he talks about Celtic and our finances and who we’ve sold and what we’ll do in the future, you could be forgiven for suggesting he is……OBSESSED



    Still, an amusing piece to read.



    Hail hail

  16. BigChipsUK,



    problem is that we are likely not going to be in a position to have a squad in the next ten years that we can guarantee wont lose 6-1 against barcelona.



    i’ve seen much richer teams than us go there and take a tanking, and many more who have escaped a tanking more by luck than design



    i dont think we should use that as our rational for improving the team or as an aim.



    i want to see us play in these CL games where we are a match for many of the ‘lesser’ teams than barca. ie we compete in football terms for 90 minutes by holding the ball, being able to pass to each other and creating chances.



    that would be a major step forward in CL terms as far as im concerned, but wouldnt guarantee that the barcas and madrids wouldnt give us the occasional skelping

  17. 67Heaven ... I am Neil Lennon, supporting WEE OSCAR..!!.. Ibrox belongs to the creditors on

    brogan rogan trevino and hogan supports oscar knox, mackenzie furniss and anyone else who fights neuroblastoma



    12:46 on 24 January, 2014



    Fantastic poster, but this post was pointless…….what’s the point of highlighting the ‘imperfections of man’ like this, and using Mother Teresa and Celtic FC as your examples…..



    …noone, and nothing, is perfect in this life / world, but let me tell you, Mother Teresa and Celtic FC come close, as do all your OTHER posts / opinions etc……HH

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